圆满循环：红包、实践课程、一人公司

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

是圆桌会。

Is Roundtable.

你正在收听圆桌会。

You're listening to Roundtable.

我是牛红林，和史蒂夫、艾珊一起参与。

I'm Niu Hong Lin, joined by Steve and Eishan.

接下来，本周的故事中隐藏着一种模式。

Coming up soon, there's a pattern hiding in this week's stories.

你目前还看不出来，因为我们还没把所有线索摆上桌面。

You can't see it just yet because we haven't laid all the pieces on the table.

但一旦我们全部摆出来，一些意想不到的事情就会开始浮现。

But once we do, something unexpected start to emerge.

是的。

Yes.

现在我们再次进入完整循环环节。

It's time for our full circle segment again.

三个故事。

Three stories.

一个联系。

One connection.

这就是完整循环。

This is the full circle.

欢迎来到完整循环。

Welcome to the full circle.

三个故事，主题不同，世界各异。

Three stories, different topics, different worlds.

表面上看，它们之间没有任何明显的联系。

On the surface, nothing obvious connects them.

但仔细观察，我们可以看到一条线索。

But look closer, we can see a thread.

首先，我们本周挑选了哪三个故事？

To start with, what are the three stories that we picked this week?

是的。

Yeah.

我来负责本周的分享。

I've got it this week.

我选的第一个故事是关于周四提到的红包困境。

And the first one that I chose is from Thursday about the red envelope dilemma.

红包也叫压岁钱，是长辈在春节等节日期间赠予年轻一代的钱。

Also can be called red envelope or lucky money that given out to younger generations by older generations during, for example, holiday season like the spring festival period.

是的。

Yeah.

我们讨论了如今压力与过去的不同：过去人们更看重送红包的象征意义，而不是金额，但现在随着收入增加，红包里的钱越来越多，期望也随之上升，因此带来了一些焦虑和压力。

So we talked about how the pressure is different now where in the past, it wasn't so much about the amount, was about the gesture of giving the envelope, but now, you know, with incomes rising and more money in the envelopes, expectations are rising, so there's some anxiety and pressure involved there.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是在现在，不同家庭的孩子数量不同，你会想知道是该给每个孩子和你小时候收到的一样多，还是给一个总额。

And especially in these days, different families would have different numbers of kids and you want to know if you want to give each kid the same amount as those who as you received or the total amount.

现在要考虑的因素很多。

There are a lot of factors to

需要仔细权衡。

to think about now.

每个人都在思考同一个问题，比如

And everybody's wondering that same question, like

给多少？

how much?

对吧？

Right?

所以这就是周四的那个故事。

So that was the story from Thursday.

这是第一个故事。

That's story number one.

我选的下一个故事来自星期三。

The next one that I chose was from Wednesday.

这说的是大学劳动课的热潮。

This is about the university labor class boom.

有一门课教基础烹饪技能。

There's a course that teaches basic cooking skills.

不需要太复杂，你可以学会做炒饭、鸡肉或羊肉之类的菜肴，还有一些不同的菜，但这门课只容纳大约36名学生，而申请人数却超过了300人。

Nothing too fancy, you can learn how to bake fried rice or some chicken or some lamb, things like that, some different dishes, and they only have room for about 36 students, but the applicants exceeded 300.

所以我们刚刚讨论了夜课的火爆情况。

So we just talked about how the night classes are booming.

对吧？

Right?

嗯，这类类似的课程在大学里也很受欢迎。

Well, these similar style classes are booming in universities

也是如此。

too.

我想学怎么修车。

I would want to learn how to fix my car.

我从来没碰过我车的引擎。

I have never touched the engine of my car.

如果能在大学课堂里学会这个，为什么不呢？

And if I can do that in a university classroom, why not?

我的意思是，烹饪在现代教育中确实被严重低估了。

I mean, cooking is certainly something that's totally underrated by modern day education.

我跟你说，这是一整套体系，越早学越好。

I'm telling you, it's a whole system that the earlier you learn, the better.

机械维修也是。

And mechanics too.

对吧？

Right?

你确实需要这项技能，但学校从来没教过。

You need it, but you never got it taught in school.

是的。

Yeah.

这太奇怪了。

It's so weird.

我稍后会再回到这个观点。

I'm gonna come back to that point a little bit later.

这是我的第二个观点。

That's my second one.

好的。

Okay.

所以第三个故事，这也是来自周四的，讲的是人工智能驱动的个人公司。

So story number three, this is also from Thursday, and this is about AI powered one person companies.

人工智能已经改写了创业的规则。

AI has rewritten entrepreneurship rules.

曾经依赖复杂团队和大量资本与资源积累的创业，现在有了新的模式。

Once dependent on complex teams and substantial capital and resource accumulation, entrepreneurship now has a new paradigm.

人工智能驱动的个人公司。

AI powered one person companies.

它们被称为OPC。

They're called OPC's.

是的。

Yeah.

以前，尤其是关于创业的想法是，你需要大量的启动资金，需要一个庞大的团队才能起步，但现在情况完全相反。

So the idea before, know, especially about entrepreneurship was that you needed a lot of money upfront, you needed a large team to get started, but this is just totally the opposite situation now.

人工智能不仅让个人公司成为可能，还让它们变得流行。

AI is making one person companies not just possible, it's making it popular.

我不喜欢这个想法。

I don't like this idea.

我觉得我并不擅长人工智能，而且我会太辛苦。

I don't think I'm that good at artificial intelligence, and I will work too hard.

这正是我们之前讨论的两个观点。

Those are two of the points that we talked about.

第一，你必须懂得如何使用这些AI工具；第二，它的缺点之一是，你确实需要牺牲大量个人时间，并完全投入其中。

Number one, you gotta know how to use these AI tools, and number two, one of the downsides of it is, of course, it's a trade off that you you really have to sacrifice a lot of your own time and and be fully committed to it.

是的。

Yeah.

所以红包困境某种程度上，还有学习那些能让你在大学课堂中获得实践体验的课程，比如AI驱动的单人公司。

So red envelope dilemma somehow, and learning the kind of classes or the kind of courses that would allow you, would almost force you to have hands on experiences in university classrooms and AI powered one person company.

这次的完整循环会是什么？

What would be the full circle this time?

好吧，让我为你理清这条线索。

Alright, let me draw the thread for you.

这三个故事都揭示了传统承诺与现代要求之间的差距扩大，而在每种情况下，都有人正在搭建一座桥梁来弥合这一距离。

All three stories expose a widening gap between tradition promised and what the modern version demands, and in each of these cases someone is building a bridge to close the distance.

我们在谈论差距与桥梁。

We're talking about gaps and bridges.

我们先从红包的故事说起。

We'll start with the red envelope story.

红包原本承诺的是好运与祝福，是代际之间爱的简单传递，但这一承诺与当今现实之间的差距却日益扩大。

The Hongbao promised luck and blessing, and it was a simple exchange of love between different generations, but the gap between that promise and today's reality has grown wide.

如今，许多成年人为了红包，会提前几个月就为节日做预算，节前焦虑感飙升，而那句始终萦绕心头的问题依然是：你收到了多少？

Now adults, some people, they'll budget for the holiday for months just because of the red envelopes, and anxiety spikes before the holiday, and again it's that question, how much did you get?

哦，那你收到了多少？

Oh, well, how much did you get?

这已成为一个心照不宣的问题——没人明说，但每个人都在不停地计算。

That has become the unspoken question that no one asks, but everyone is calculating all the time.

本应承载情感的红包，如今却变成了社交债务。

So what was meant to carry sentiment now carries social debt.

为了缩小这一差距，社区正在发布建议金额表，地方政府也在设定上限，这并非为了扼杀传统，而是为了架起一座桥梁，让红包回归其本初的意义。

So to narrow that gap, communities are publishing suggested amount charts, and local governments are issuing caps, and it's not done to kill the tradition, but to bridge it, to bring it back to its original meaning.

在红包这件事上，这座桥梁仍在建设中，但方向已经明确：少一些算计，多一些联结。

The bridge, it's still under construction in the red envelope case, but the direction is clear, less calculation and more connection.

接下来谈谈劳动课程。

Now on to the labor classes.

大学文凭曾承诺带来声望、理论和通往更好未来的门票。

A university degree promised prestige and theory and a ticket to a better future.

对吧？

Right?

当我们踏入自己的学校时，我们都这么认为，但承诺与现实之间的差距已变得无法忽视。

That's what we all thought when we entered into our own schools, but the gap between the promise and the reality became impossible to ignore.

你有这些非常、非常聪明的毕业生，他们能解复杂的方程，却连煮个鸡蛋都不会。

You have these really, really intelligent graduates who can solve complex equations, but they can't boil an egg.

因此，人们原本期望生活技能能从生活中自然习得。

So the expectation there was that life skills would come from life itself.

你说你从未碰过汽车发动机的内部，但你认为它迟早会在生活中出现。

You said you've never touched the inside of a car's engine, but you thought it would come to in your life somehow.

但现实是，它并不会自动出现。

But the reality is is that it doesn't.

在厨房帮忙，或帮父母修理漏水的水龙头，这些父母与孩子之间原本的互动与学习机会，如今已十分稀缺。

Helping in the kitchen, maybe helping a parent fix a leaky faucet, those moments, those learning opportunities at home now between parents and kids, they are quite scarce.

为了缩小这一差距，学生们说：‘大学，你为什么不教我一些不同的东西呢？’

So to narrow that gap, students said, hey, university, why don't you start teaching me something different?

大学对此作出了回应，把教室变成了面包店和汽车修理铺。

And universities responded, turning classrooms into bakeries and auto shops.

嗯，是的。

Mhmm.

于是，这座桥梁正一门课程一门课程地搭建起来，学生们正排着队等待跨越。

So the bridge is being built course by course, and students are lining up to cross it.

我现在明白了。

Now I get it.

对于一个人的公司来说，以前几乎是不可能的。

For the one person company thing, in previous days, it's almost impossible.

我的意思是，如果你仔细想想，这真是个好主意。

I mean, it's a great idea if you think about it.

你拥有自由，可以掌控公司，但你必须同时掌控公司和自己。

You got freedom, you can control the company, but you have to control the company and control yourself.

而且你必须具备各种可能的能力和不同类型的技能，才能真正成立一家公司，这意味着一个人的公司几乎难以成为现实。

And you have to, while still have all the possible capabilities, different types of abilities to be able to really form a company, which means a one person company can hardly be the reality.

但人工智能缩小了这一差距。

But AI closed that gap.

完全正确。

Totally.

如今的前景完全不同了。

Now the promise is completely different.

一个人、一台笔记本电脑、一家公司，这完全可能。

One person, one laptop, one company is totally possible.

因此，要缩小独立与孤独之间的剩余差距，因为作为一个人的公司经营者，同样会感到孤独。

So to narrow the gap between what the remaining gap is between independence and loneliness there, because running your own company as a one person company, there's loneliness as well.

但现在创始人社区正在形成导师网络。

But now founder communities are forming mentorship networks.

这些网络正在不断壮大。

Those are growing.

政策也在跟上。

Policies are catching up as well.

所以对于一人公司而言，这座桥梁并不是降低期望。

So the bridge here for the one person companies, it's not about lowering expectations.

而是证明了旧有的权衡并不一定是唯一路径。

It's about proving that the old trade off wasn't necessarily the only path.

意思是，如果你选择独自工作，无论你喜不喜欢，都得承受这份孤独。

Meaning, if you're gonna work on your own, you're gonna have to take that loneliness whether you like it or not.

现在我们知道，独自创业并不意味着必须孤军奋战。

Now we know that going solo doesn't mean you have to go it alone.

就是这样。

So there you go.

这三个故事、三个鸿沟和三条桥梁，正一步步地被修复。

Those are the three stories, three gaps and three bridges all being fixed one course or one step at a time.

这不仅仅是关于这三个故事，对吧？

It's not only about these three stories, isn't it?

这关乎几乎所有事情：能够看到问题，能够识别差距，并能够创造出解决这个问题或缩小差距的桥梁。

It's about almost everything, being able to see a problem, being able to identify the gap, and being able to create that bridge that solves the problem or make sure that the gap is somehow narrowed.

比如，我们之前推出了新的播客系列《智者与青年》，探讨并讨论了张子涛，这个系列在观众中相当受欢迎。

Like, previously, we've aired our new podcast series Sage and Youth, understanding or debating Zhang Zitao, and was it got quite popular among audience.

他们说他们喜欢这个理念。

They said they like the idea.

他们喜欢这个节目。

They like the show.

我认为部分原因是，我们知道中国传统哲学蕴含着丰富的智慧。

And I think partly the reason here is that we know that traditional Chinese philosophy is something with a lot of wisdom.

它值得学习，并可能带来巨大的益处。

It's something that is worth learning, and it might have a huge benefit.

它可能启发你解决自己生活中的问题。

It might inspire you to solve the problems in your own life.

然而，存在的差距在于，这些内容是用文言文写成的。

Yet, the gap there was that it was written in traditional Chinese language.

它是以一种不容易被每个人理解和解读的方式传授的。

It was taught in a way that is not that easily understood or interpreted by everybody.

因此，为了缩小这一差距，我们邀请了年轻的媒体专业人士来探讨这些理念，辩论他们是否喜欢这些思想，以及这些哲学是否仍然适用于当今世界。

So in order to narrow that gap, we invited young media professionals to talk about the idea, to debate over whether or not they like it, whether or not these philosophies still apply for today's world.

通过这样做，我们能够将这些哲学引入当代观众的视野。

And by doing that, we're able to we're able to introduce that philosophy into today's audience.

我认为，我们总是假设，如果想要获得什么，就必须放弃一些东西。

I think too, it's about we always assume that if we want to gain something, we have to give something up.

如果你想学习，就必须放弃乐趣。

If you want to learn about, you have to give up fun.

那是那是

That's That

并不是

was not

但事实并非如此。

But that's not true.

这并不正确。

That's not true.

但那并不正确。

But that's not true.

如果你想经营自己的公司，就必须放弃与他人合作。

If you want to run your own company, you have to give up working with other people.

你必须放弃自己的时间。

You have to give up your own time.

你必须放弃自己的精力。

You have to give up your own energy.

所以我一直在思考，比如牺牲。

So I was thinking about, like, sacrifices.

你有没有为了得到其他东西而放弃过什么？

Have you ever sacrificed something in your life to gain something else?

比如，你放弃了一样东西，以便获得另一样东西？

Like, you gave up one thing so that you could gain another thing?

我们刚才在讨论独自创业。

We were just talking about solo entrepreneurialship.

回想我上大学的时候，那是十多年前了，像黄林提到的，那时候这根本不是什么流行的事。

And back in the days when I was in university, which is like over ten years ago, that was not yet a thing, like Houn Lin mentioned.

这让我回想起了很多往事，因为当时我和我的前男友——也就是那时的男朋友——一起报名参加了学校的学生创业项目，我是他在该项目中唯一的一名员工。

And that was something that really triggered me back in the memory lane because me and my ex boyfriend, the boyfriend at that time, we were trying to well, we were actually enrolled in the school's program of youth entrepreneurship, meaning that I'll be his first and only employee on that program we were working on.

想象一下，你才20岁，就拥有属于自己的公司、中心或平台。

Imagine this, having a company or some sort of a hub or a center of yours for yourself at the age of 20.

是的。

Mhmm.

那曾是我们的梦想，更准确地说，是他梦想的蓝图，而我只是这个项目中的参与者。

That was our dream or more precisely his dream where I'm just a participant of that program.

与此同时，我收到了去哥本哈根大学交换学习半年的邀请，因为我成绩达到了一定标准，被选中参与这个交换项目。

And in the meantime, I got an invitation to go study in the University of Copenhagen for about half a year because achieving at a certain grade that I was chosen to be part of that exchanging program.

但这与我们当时规划的创业计划产生了很大冲突。

But that kind of overlaps with a lot of our plan in building that entrepreneurship plan that we had back then.

我记得十多年前我和前男友那次深入的对话，印象非常深刻。

So we were having I remember very vividly from over a decade ago of that big conversation we had I had with my ex.

我觉得这对我来说意义重大，我很想去。

Like, I I think this really means a lot to me, and I'd I'd like to go.

只有六个月，甚至可能更短。

It's only six months, if not shorter than that.

但他却说，你有没有想过，你独自抓住这个机会会不会很自私？

But he was like, but do you consider it don't you consider it selfish that you take on this your own chance?

你有没有其他计划？

Do you have no plan?

我很高兴他管前男友叫‘前男友’。

I'm so happy he's called the ex.

知道。

Know.

对。

Yes.

我知道。

I know.

对吧？

Right?

所以，那就是那件事。

So so that was the thing.

我一度以为，我是在放弃对学术进步的持续追求——也就是我的梦想，并为此牺牲了一切，以换取我们共同梦想可能实现的成果。

I kind of I thought I was giving up my periodical chase of academic advancements aka my dream and and sacrificing all that in exchange for the achievement, the possible achievement of our dream.

但这值得吗？

But was it worth it?

实际上，并不值得。

Actually, no.

因为事情并没有成功。

Because it didn't work out.

那个项目并没有成功。

It didn't work out for that program.

我们的关系也没能成功。

It didn't work out for our relationship.

但我后悔吗？

But do I regret it?

答案依然是不后悔。

The answer remains to be no.

因为这在某种程度上教会了我，追求个人梦想并没有错。

Because it was in a way to teach me that there's no mistake for chasing personal dreams.

对于所有在听这场圆桌讨论的女生们，我知道现在有很多女生和女性研究者在聆听。

And for all the girls out there, I know there are a lot of girls and and female researchers that's listening to round table these days.

我们不应该因为那些你应得的机会而感到内疚或退缩。

And we shouldn't feel guilty or shy away from opportunities that's given to you that's that you earned.

所以，无论你处于怎样的亲密关系中，都是可以的。

So it's okay to be in an intimate relationship, whatever client that may be.

同时，无论你现在处于人生的哪个阶段，都要继续闪耀，保持卓越。

And in the meantime, stay shining and remain a highly accomplished individual regardless of which phase of life you are in right now.

是的。

Yeah.

这一点真的让我深有感触。

That's something that I really kind of feel personally touched.

这并不是我每天都会分享的故事。

This is not a story that I share on a daily basis.

我向你保证。

I'm I assure you.

所以，是的。

So, yeah.

谢谢你的分享。

Thanks for sharing.

真正重要的是你付出了什么，又得到了什么作为回报。

Really, it's it's about what you sacrifice, what you get in exchange.

对我来说，这是一生的教训。

In my case, that's a lifelong lesson.

嗯，

Well,

对我来说，情况要肤浅得多，因为我曾在布鲁塞尔学习口译。

for me, it's quite much more shallow in the case because I have had experience learning interpretation in Brussels.

在那里时，我花了很多课余时间练习和学习，因为我觉得这是一个非常密集的培训阶段，学习比在欧洲、在布鲁塞尔到处闲逛更有用、更有意义。

And when I was there, I spent a lot of my out of school time practicing and learning because I feel like it's a very intensive training period, and learning would be much more quote unquote useful and meaningful than going around in Europe, in Brussels.

是的。

Yeah.

啊，是的。

At Yeah.

这个

The

是的。

Yeah.

你知道那种心态，是的。

You know the mentality Yeah.

但在那五个月结束时，当我终于有机会在比利时的不同城市走一走时，我完全感觉到自己学到了更多——了解了当地人、当地文化、建筑，以及他们如何看待世界的角度。

Of a But at the end of that five months, when I finally got a chance to walk around a little bit in different cities, in Belgium, I totally felt like I was even learning more, learning about local people, local culture, learning about local architecture, how they understand the world with their perspectives.

我当时有点后悔没有好好利用那段时光，但我想这其实也关乎视角的问题。

And I was a little bit regretting not making good use of my time at that time, but I think it's also about perspectives.

我的故事也很相似，因为高中毕业后，我想我之前在节目里提过，高中毕业后，我最好的朋友和我后来几年一起搬到了韩国，但就在高中刚毕业时，他对我说：嘿，史蒂夫。

My story is so similar because after high school, I think I've mentioned this on the show before, after high school, my best friend we actually ended up moving to Korea together years later, but just after high school, he said, hey, Steve.

我们一起去欧洲背包旅行六个月吧。

Let's go backpack in Europe for six months.

我说：你疯了吗？

And I said, are you crazy?

他却说：为什么不呢？

And he said, why not?

我们就背个装满衣服和杂物的背包，直接出发吧。

Let's just take a backpack full of clothes and stuff and just go.

我说：你打算怎么出行？

I said, how are you gonna get around?

他说，我觉得他们有火车之类的交通工具。

He said, I think they have trains and stuff.

你可以一个国家一个国家地游走。

You just go from country to country.

我说，钱从哪儿来？

I said, with what money?

他说，嗯，就是凑一点钱呗。

He said, well, just, you know, put some money together.

我说，不行。

I said, no.

我做不到那样。

I can't do that.

我得去上大学。

We got I gotta go to university.

他说，那就推迟一下。

He said, just delay it.

我说，延迟上大学？没人会延迟上大学的。

I said, delay uni are you nobody delays university.

所以他去了欧洲六个月，背着包一个国家接一个国家地旅行，钱不多，也不在乎，免费看了帕瓦罗蒂的演出。

So he went to Europe for six months, backpacked country to country to country, didn't have much money, didn't care, saw Pavarotti for free.

他在最后一排。

He was in the back row.

他偷偷溜进去了。

He snuck in.

我觉得他是偷偷溜进剧院的，因为他知道帕瓦罗蒂要演出，票早就卖光了，而且非常贵。

I think he he snuck into the theater because he knew Pavarotti was there and sold out obviously and very expensive.

顺便说一下，这在圆桌讨论中并不被建议或鼓励。

Not not suggested or encouraged on roundtable by the way.

如果你在欧洲背包旅行，那就去吧。

If you're backpacking in Europe, go ahead.

他偷偷溜进去，从最后一排看了帕瓦罗蒂的演出。

Snuck in and saw Pavarotti from the, you know, from the very back row.

还是这样。

Still.

而且，真的不是开玩笑。

And yeah, no kidding.

那我做了什么？

And what did I do?

我想我现在该填申请表了。

I guess I'll fill out my application now.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

我这辈子没后悔多少事，但这件事我确实后悔了。

I don't regret a lot of things in life, but I certainly regret that.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yeah.

但我不确定。

But I don't know.

你还会做出同样的选择吗？

Would you still make the same choices?

不会。

No.

不，不是为了今天的你。

No, Not for today's you.

哦。

Oh.

为了20岁的你。

For 20 year old you.

今天的我会告诉20岁的我：去偷偷看Ponderosa演出吧，申请的事以后再操心。

Today's me would tell 20 year old me, Go sneak into the Ponderosa show and worry about your application later.

但这只是我的想法。

But that's just me.

你说得对。

You're right.

我们不能把这作为给每个人的建议，但我确实后悔没有那样做。

We can't give that out as advice to everyone, but I do regret not doing that.

是的。

Yeah.

所以下次当你做重大决定时，也许你可以今天跳出自己的鞋子，试着从十年、二十年后的眼光来看，思考你做出这个选择后，是否会后悔。

So next time when you make a big decision, maybe you can jump out of your shoe today and try to think of it ten years, twenty years ahead and think whether or not you make the choice, you will regret the choice that you make.

对。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我们每个人都在某种道路上前行，对吧？

I mean, we're all on a path of some sort, right?

那我们到底该后悔什么呢？

So what do we really need to regret?

这或许是另一个留到以后再讨论的问题。

That's another question perhaps for another day.

好的。

Alright.

那么，今天这个圆满的闭环，有什么最后的想法吗？

Then for today's full circle, any final thoughts?

我有。

I do.

当我讲述这些圆满闭环的故事时，我在寻找桥梁和缺口。

Now when I was going with the full circle stories, I was looking for bridges and gaps.

但当我坐下来审视这些故事，思考我对它们的感受时，

But when I was sitting looking at the stories and thinking about, you know, what do I feel about these?

我的大脑却走向了另一个方向。

My brain actually went in a different direction.

为什么我们总是假设越多越好？

Why do we always assume that more is better?

更多的钱，更多的员工，更多的资历。

More money, more employees, more credentials.

这甚至已经不是我们还会去思考的事情了。

It's not even a thing that we think about anymore.

这甚至不是我们会去问的问题。

It's not even a question that we think to ask.

这仅仅是我们一直在做的事。

It's just what we do.

这是我们呼吸的空气，甚至都不是文化层面的。

It's the air that we breathe, and it's not even cultural.

这是一个全球性的现象。

It's a global thing.

在中国也是如此。

It's true in China.

在加拿大也是如此。

It's true in Canada.

在任何地方都是如此。

It's true everywhere.

我们从小就被灌输这种观念。

We were raised on it.

朋友越多就越受欢迎，意味着更好。

More friends means more popular, which means better.

钱越多就越成功，意味着更好。

More money means more success, which means better.

知识越多地位就越高，意味着，嗯，更好。

More knowledge means higher status, which means, mhmm, better.

你看，地位是贯穿所有这些事物的主线。

You see there, status is the thread running through all of those things.

它是我们不断追逐的无形计分板。

It's the invisible scoreboard that we're constantly trying to chase.

但如果这是真的，如果地位真的是我们追求的东西，那就有个问题了。

But if that's true, if status is really what we're chasing, then here's a problem.

我们永远无法真正到达那里，因为地位不是一个终点。

We're never actually going to get there because status isn't a destination.

这是一种比较，而比较永远不会结束。

It's a comparison, and comparisons don't end.

总有人的信封更厚、学历更高，或者拥有一家更光鲜的个人公司。

There's always someone with a thicker envelope, a fancier degree, or a shinier one person company.

所以，如果我们一直在追逐、一直在攀登、一直在衡量，我们究竟什么时候才能停下？

So if we're always chasing, always climbing, always measuring, when do we actually stop?

我们什么时候才能真正享受眼前的一切？

When do we actually enjoy what's in front of us?

我认为答案是：永远不会。

The answer I think is never.

但这里就变得复杂了，因为抱负是一种美德。

But this is where it gets tricky because ambition is a virtue.

想要为自己或孩子争取比你曾经拥有的更好的生活，这并不是贪婪，而是爱。

Wanting a better life for yourself or for your kids better than the one that you had, that's not greed, that's love.

这是人性。

That's human nature.

那么，我们怎么能说渴望更多、成就更多、追求更高目标是错的呢？

So how can we say it's wrong to want more, to achieve more, and to reach for something higher?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我真的不知道。

I really don't.

但如果我哪天想明白了，我会写本书，你可以买来让我赚更多钱、交更多朋友、提升社会地位。

But if I ever figure it out, I'll write a book and you can buy it so I can have more money, more friends, and a better status.

这真是一个美好而温馨的结语。

That is a lovely, lovely final thought.

我想，这就够了。

And I guess that's it.

总会有那么一段差距。

There's always that gap.

总会有那种疑惑，怀疑我们是否能做得更好，也总在思考是否会对过去的决定感到后悔。

There's always that wondering of whether or not we can do a better job, and there's always the thinking of whether or not we would regret our, well, previous decisions.

但经过今天这一圈完整的讨论，我其实很好奇。

But after today's full circle, I'm actually curious to know.

你觉得，比如在红包这件事上，是不是社区站了出来？

Do you think if, like, maybe for for example, for the red envelope case, it was the community standing out.

这是一个第三方提供某种解决方案或桥梁的情况。

It's a third party providing somehow a kind of solution or a bridge.

对于一个人的AI公司，是技术发展解决了过去曾经是个问题的事情。

For the AI one person company, it's somehow technology development that solved that used to be an problem.

而对于我们，玉山和史蒂夫还有我，我们回顾了之前的情况，意识到也许换个视角，会让我们的过去决定不那么令人后悔，或者在当时，换个视角可能会促使我们做出不同的决定。

And for us, we for Yushan and our well, Steve and I, we thought about the previous situation, and we realized that it may be a change of perspective would make our previous decision not that regrettable, or maybe at that time, a change of perspective would push us to do a different to make a different decision.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以你觉得，有些问题，其实并不是靠权衡或牺牲就能解决的？

So do you think somehow, some problems, they're they're not meant to be solved by trade offs or by sacrifices?

它们应该通过创造性思维、出人意料的因素，或他人的帮助来解决，比如一个20岁年长的史蒂夫告诉20岁年轻的史蒂夫换种方式去思考。

They should be solved by creative thinking, by a surprising factor, or by someone's help, by, like, 20 year older Steve telling 20 year younger Steve to think about it another way.

随着年龄增长，我对这类问题思考了很多，因为我们确实会问这个问题，对吧？

It's I I have put a lot of thought into this type of thing as I've gotten older because, you we ask that question, right?

你会对年轻的自己说些什么呢？

Like, what would you tell your younger self?

是的。

Yeah.

但有时候我觉得，即使我告诉现在的自己我如今知道的一切，年轻的我大概也不会听。

But I sometimes think even if I told my younger self what I know now, I don't think my younger self would listen to me.

正是如此。

Precisely.

对吧？

Right?

因为这关乎视角，人们需要亲自经历和体验，才能真正理解这些道理。

Because it's a it's a matter of perspective, and people need to go through things on their own and experience things on their own for them to fully grasp the concept.

我现在就可以告诉一个年轻人：好好享受你的高中时光，因为其实它挺好的。

I could tell a young person right now, you know, enjoy your high school time because it's actually pretty good.

但对于高中生来说，这非常困难，因为他们的视角不同。

But not to a high school student, it's very difficult because the perspective is different.

他们极度关注高考或其他任何你需要参加的考试，压力真的很大。

They're super focused on the gauchao or whatever test you need to take, and it's really stressful.

而且，你还得面对高中内部的社会环境，这对年轻学生来说可能很艰难。

And then you've got, you know, the society that exists within high school, and that can be tough for for young students.

我可以说，年轻的时候，别太担心你的职业道路会怎样发展。

I could say when you're young, don't worry too much about how your career path is gonna go.

只要继续努力，总有一天你会明白的，但我之所以能这么说，是因为我拥有 hindsight 的能力；如果没有 hindsight，就不可能理解这些建议，因为 foresight 并不是人们轻易能拥有的。

Just keep working hard and you'll figure it out someday, but I only can say that because I have the I have the the ability of hindsight, but without hindsight it's impossible to grasp that advice because foresight is not something readily available to people.

就像75岁的人比我们懂得更多一样

Just like 75 year olds know more than we

是的。

do.

自然。

Nature.

但很多时候，当他们试图告诉我们一些事情时，我们可能不会听。

But we probably won't listen to them a lot of the time when they try to tell us stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

对于年轻人来说，时间总是在变化。

And time is always changing for young people.

我认为，在每一个转折点或你正在做或即将做的每一个决定中，只要你忠于自己，而不是他人的意见或期望，后悔的可能性就会更小。

I think at every turning point or every decision you are making or about to make, as long as you stay true to yourself instead of other people's opinion or expectations on you, there's a lesser chance of regretting.

确实如此。

That's true.

我们总是可以对年轻时的自己说，哦，你的问题只是个小事。

And we can always say to the younger version of ourselves that, Oh, your problem is just a minor issue.

它在未来不会困扰你。

It will not bother you in the future.

当你老了，可能根本记不起来这件事。

You might not even remember it when you're older.

但对我们每个人、每一个版本的自己来说，那种感觉都是如此真实。

But to each and every self of us, each and every version, that feeling was so real.

你的第一次心碎？

Your first heartbreak?

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

过去的你，不是现在的你。

Old you not not old you.

我的意思是，任何人在回首往事时都会说，那根本算不了什么。

I mean I mean old anyone looks back and says, that was nothing.

但在那一刻、那个时间，感觉世界就要终结了。

But at that moment, at that time, feels like the world is coming to an end.

但好的一点是，当我们谈论社会问题或职业问题时，通常都有多种解决方式。

But a good thing is, when we're talking about the kind of problems in the society, the kind of problems for a career, there are often different ways to solve it.

所以在这些情况下，试着发挥创造力。

So try to be creative in those situations.

这就结束了我们今天的圆桌讨论。

And that brings us to the end of today's roundtable.

我是林雅红，和史蒂夫、玉山一起。

I'm Yohong Lin with Steve and Yushan.

非常感谢您的收听。

Thank you so much for listening.

我们下次再见。

We'll see you next time.