野生动物共存的长城

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

棕熊闯入民宅，野猪阻断地铁列车。

Brown bears breaking into homes, wild boars stopping subway trains.

到2026年，野生动物不再局限于野外了。

In 2026, the wild isn't staying in the wild anymore.

中国的保护工作成效显著，以至于动物们出现在了本不该出现的地方。

China's conservation efforts are working so well, in fact, that animals are showing up where they don't belong.

我们将探讨当成功引发冲突时会发生什么，以及为实现共存而制定的新法规。

We'll take a look at what happens when success creates conflict and the new law trying to make coexistence possible.

本节目由北京演播室现场直播，这里是圆桌论坛。

Coming to you live from our studios in Beijing, this is Roundtable.

我是史蒂夫。

I'm Steve.

非常感谢您今天参与我们的节目。

Thank you very much for being with us today.

在本节目中，我与玉顺和菲菲一起讨论。起初，我们以为野生动物保护是一项远离人类、旨在拯救深山野林中动物的遥远努力。

And for the show, I'm with Yushun and Fei First up, we used to think of wildlife conservation as a distant effort to save animals in the deep wild.

但在2026年，野生动物已经来到了我们的家门口。

But in 2026, the wild has come to our doorstep.

从青海的棕熊闯入民宅，到南京的野猪扰乱地铁，人类文明与自然之间的界限正在迅速消失。

From brown bears breaking into homes in Qinghai to wild boars disrupting subways in Nanjing, the boundary between human civilization and nature is disappearing quickly.

这不仅仅是一个动物问题。

And it's not just an animal problem.

这更是一个人道主义问题和经济挑战。

It's a humanitarian issue and an economic challenge.

今天，我们将探讨成功的代价——这意味着中国蓬勃发展的生态系统正在催生新的冲突前线，而2026年出台的里程碑式生态环境法正在重新定义人与自然共存的规则。

Today, we're going to talk about the price of success, and what that means is how China's thriving ecosystems are creating new front lines of conflict and how the landmark 2026 ecological and environmental code is rewriting the rules of coexistence.

玉顺、菲菲，你们好。

Yushun and Fei Fei, hi.

你今天怎么样？

How are doing today?

这是一个相当复杂的问题。

Really kind of complicated issue.

它正在影响我们在中国的生活。

It is affecting us here in China.

这同样也是一个全球性的问题。

It's an it's a world issue as well.

我们也会谈到这一点，但在这其中找到平衡点非常非常困难。

We're gonna talk about that too, and it's a very, very, very tricky line to try to walk.

没错，史蒂夫。

Exactly, Steve.

当我们谈论这些全球性问题时，实际上有一个术语。

And when we're talking about well, there is a term actually about these problems globally.

它被称为人与野生动物冲突。

It's called human wildlife conflicts.

这描述了人类与野生动物之间发生的负面影响。

And that describes, you know, the negative impacts that happened between humans and wildlife.

例如，在许多国家，比如津巴布韦，有国家公园管理部门。

For example, in many countries, for example, in Zimbabwe, there are national park authorities.

他们报告称，仅在2025年就发生了62起由鳄鱼和大象等野生动物导致的人类死亡事件。

They reported sixty two human deaths in 2025 alone that's caused by wildlife such as crocodiles and elephants.

这种情况在其他地区也存在，包括北美、南美，以及亚洲这里。

And that happens in other countries as well, in North America, in South America, and also here in Asia.

因此，根据联合国的数据，全球范围内，人兽冲突影响了超过75%的野生猫科物种。

So globally, human wildlife conflicts affect over 75% of the world wild cat species according to the United Nations figures.

此外，还有其他类型的动物，比如大象、北极熊，也存在人类与鸟类之间的冲突事件。

As well as there are also other types of animals like elephants, polar bears, and also there are incidents of conflicts between humans and birds.

是的。

Yeah.

这可不是一个简短的清单，它既包括野生动物对人类文明的负面影响，也包括人类文明对野生动物的负面影响。

It's not a short list, and it it's the negative impact of wildlife on human civilization, but it's also the negative impact of human civilization on wildlife too.

是的，在北美，我记得今年一月发生了一起备受关注的山狮袭击事件。

And, yes, in North America, I think it was in January, there was a high profile, attack of a mountain lion.

那是在科罗拉多州的一名徒步者身上发生的。

It was I think it was on a hiker in Colorado.

这非常罕见，但确实发生了。

That's a very rare instance, but it still happened.

在秘鲁和乌拉圭，海狮被发现会破坏或偷走渔民高达46%的渔获。

In Peru and Uruguay, sea lions have been found to destroy or steal up to 46% of fishers catches.

你提到了马来西亚，那里也存在类似问题。

In Malaysia, you mentioned Malaysia, there's issues there as well.

大规模农业运营每年因大象破坏作物而损失约14.5万美元，不得不花费数百万美元建设所谓的生态廊道以维持生存。

Agricultural operations, large scale ones at that, reported losing about a 145,000 US dollars a year to elephant related crop damage, forcing them to spend millions on wildlife corridors is what they call them there to survive.

最近在澳大利亚也发生了一起事件，一名年轻的加拿大女性遭遇了意外，我稍后想再回到这个话题，也许在我们今天聊天结束前。

And something, happened recently in Australia too to a young Canadian woman, and I wanna come back to that a little bit later, maybe before we finish our chat today.

但野生动物与人类之间和平共存的平衡，是非常微妙的。

But the balance between wildlife and and humans to peacefully coexist, it's a really delicate one.

如果这种平衡过度偏向某一方向，玉顺，事情就会开始出问题。

And if that balance leans too far in one direction, direction, Yushun, things can start to go wrong.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，听到中国的情况，人与野生动物的冲突可以说是保护成功的标志，几十年的植树造林和狩猎禁令导致了野猪等一些物种的数量激增，以及顶级捕食者的恢复。

Actually, hearing China, human wildlife is a kind of a symptom of conservation success, and decades of reforestation and hunting bends have led to a population explosion of some species like wild boars and the recovery of apex predators.

在理想情况下，这是个好消息。

Now in a vacuum, that's good news.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

物种的数量增加了。

More numbers increase numbers of the species.

是的。

Yeah.

但事实上，当我们观察这些动物的栖息地时，比如野猪或具有攻击性的捕食者。

But in fact, when we're looking at the habitats of these animals, for example, wild boars or predators who can be very have this nature of attacking.

具有攻击性行为。

Aggressive behavior.

是的。

Yeah.

所以当它们感受到危险时。

So when they when they sense danger.

而我们有大约四百万人生活在，例如中国的自然保护区里。

And we have about 4,000,000 people living in, for example, China's nature reserves.

这意味着他们与这些野生动物发生直接互动的概率非常高。

That means they have a very close high chance of having direct interactions with this wildlife.

我认为一个最广为人知的例子是2021年在云南发生的事件。

I think one of the highest profile example that we can offer here is in Yunnan back in 2021

对。

Yes.

一群亚洲象在该省迁徙了五百多公里，引发了国际关注。

Where a a group of Asian elephants traveled hundreds of kilo 500 kilometers in that province, and it got international headlines.

那是一个家庭。

It was a family.

对吧？

Right?

那确实是一个家庭。

It it was a family.

是的。

Yeah.

大约有十五头，不止一个家庭。

It's about 15 more than one family.

我记得这个故事。

I remember this story.

我其实没意识到这是来自中国的。

I didn't realize it was from China, actually.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得这个故事。

I remember the story.

我想我甚至在韩国的广播节目中报道过这件事。

I think he I think I even covered it on my radio show, in in Korea.

是的。

Yeah.

这一群大象只是在进行一次迁徙。

This family of elephants was just making a trek.

对吧？

Right?

如果我没记错的话，它们是在寻找一个新的家园。

They were look if I remember correctly, they were looking for a new home.

那时，人们还不太清楚它们为什么会迁徙。

At that time, I don't think people are really sure about what's happening, why they travel.

因为亚洲象总是会迁徙

Because in Asian elephants, they always travel

嗯。

Mhmm.

在不同季节之间。

Among seasons.

但在那种情况下，它们迁徙的距离比平常更远，所以人们开始追踪它们的游荡轨迹。

But at that case, isn't they travel further than usual, and that's why people start to tracking while they are wandering.

这一直是村民们可能遇到的问题或事件之一，因为报告显示，它们似乎逐渐习惯了与人类的互动，但并不主动与人接触。

It has always been one of the issues or the incidents that these villagers may come across because the reports are saying that they kind they're kind of getting used to the interaction of wild they're not interacting with them.

它们只是离开自己的房屋或农田，让野生大象进入。

They're just leaving their house or their their farmlands there to let the wild elephants to go in.

当然，可能会有相关部门介入，但村民们已经逐渐习惯了与这些野生大象共存的生活。

And, of course, maybe some authorities may to to intervene, but the villagers, are kind of getting used to the life with these wild elephants.

我认为这也是中国人所说的与这些野生动物共存的一种方式，因为当然，它们会踩踏农田、破坏庄稼等等。

And I think that is also one of the ways that the Chinese people are saying it is the, I think, coexistence with these wild, creature because, of course, they are stepping on the farmlands, stepping on the crops and everything.

谁来承担责任？

What is taking the responsibility?

当然，地方政府要赔偿这些村庄的所有损失。

And, of course, the local authorities, they're paying for all the lost of these villages.

当然。

Sure.

是的。

Yeah.

动物在这里并不该受责备。

And the animals are are not to blame here.

它们并没有做错什么。

They're not doing Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

它们并没有做出任何异常的行为。

They're not doing anything out of the ordinary.

对吧？

Right?

截至2026年初，已有超过14个省份和地区出台了具体的补偿措施，以应对农作物损毁和牲畜被掠食带来的日益增长的损失，这些地区都是人类与野生动物冲突高发区。

As of early twenty twenty six, over 14 provinces and regions have implemented specific compensation measures to handle the rising costs of of crop destruction, also livestock predation, provinces with high incidences of human wildlife conflict.

云南是一个例子，青海是另一个例子，四川也是，这样的例子还有很多。

Yunnan is one example, Qinghai is another example, Sichuan is another example, the list goes on.

它们是最早将这些制度正式化的地方之一。

They were the among the first to formalize these systems.

费费有机会就这个话题与一位专家进行了交流。

Fei Fei, had a chance to talk with an expert about this exact topic.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

史蒂夫，你提到青海是中国境内发生此类人兽冲突概率最高的地区之一。

Steve, you have mentioned that Qinghai has one of the highest chances in China to to see in this kind of human wildlife conflict.

特别是，我们谈论的是西藏棕熊。

And in particular, we're talking about the Tibetan brown bears.

它们是这种冲突的主要来源之一。

They are one of their primary sources of this conflict.

所以我有机会与谢毅教授交谈。

So I had the chance to speak with professor Xie Yi.

他来自北京林业大学，一直在青海一个叫玉树的地区工作。

He's from the Beijing Forestry University, and he's been working in a prefecture in Qinghai called Yushun.

他们正在解决当地居民与棕熊之间的冲突。

And they are solving the conflicts between the local people there and the Brown bears.

我问他关于他的工作以及当地居民与熊之间通常会发生哪些冲突。

I asked him about the work he does and what type of conflicts usually arise between the local people and the bears.

2020年，我在上海进行了关于人熊冲突的实地调查。

In 2020, I conducted a field survey on human bear conflicts in Shanghai.

更近一些，自2023年以来，我们一直在致力于缓解人熊冲突。

More recently, we have been working on mitigating human bear conflict since 2023.

我们成功开发了五种技术，包括在线监测、智能识别、预警系统、物理围栏和驱赶设备。

We have successfully developed five types of technologies, including online monitoring, intelligent recognition, early warning system, physical fencing, and deterrence equipment.

那里通常有三种类型的冲突。

Usually, there are three types of conflicts over there.

第一种是棕熊捕食当地人的牲畜。

The first is Brombeer as the predator for local people's livestock.

此外，棕熊还会破坏或干扰当地人的房屋和其他设施。

And also Brombeer, they will destroy or distract the local people's house and other facilities.

最严重的情况是棕熊威胁到当地人的生命安全。

And, you know, the worst is situation is the Brown bear, we have threatened to local people's life security.

我可以给你讲一个案例。

I I can give you one case.

棕熊闯入了一户人家。

Brown bear broke into a further statement.

它破坏了11个房间的门窗，造成经济损失超过一万元。

It destroyed the windows and the doors of 11 rooms with economic losses over 10,000 yuan.

在玉树州，每年发生这样的棕熊破坏房屋事件超过一百次。

Such Brown bear house destroying incidents happen more than a 100 times every year in Yushun Prefecture.

一年一百次。

A 100 times a year.

而且仅仅在一个州。

And only in one prefecture.

一年一百次，这种情况一直在发生。

A 100 times a year this is happening.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

我看来，这显然每个月都发生好几次。

Me, that's obviously multiple times a month.

而且，这也与地理有关，因为这个叫玉树的县或州非常靠近一个叫三江源国家公园的国家公园。

And well, it's also because of the geography because that county or prefecture called Yushu is very close to a national park called Sanjiangyuan National Park.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，这里是人类与野生动物（如棕熊）栖息地重叠较少的地区之一。

And so it's one of the places where you have the lower overlapping habitats of humans and wildlife like brown bears.

那里还有雪豹和其他动物。

And there are also animals like snow leopards and and other things.

因此，人们一直更容易目睹像棕熊这样的捕食者与人类的直接互动。

So they are also always been sort of higher higher chance of seeing direct interactions between predators like a brown bear.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它们非常危险，而且也很聪明。

And they can be very dangerous and they are also very clever.

他提到了五种不同的方法，实际上正在努力解决这个问题，既要尽量减少对人类、房屋、牲畜和生活方式的损害，也要尽力保护棕熊。

He talked about five different and they're trying to solve this problem actually with, you know, with reduced damage to humans and their houses and their livestock and their lifestyles, but also trying their best to protect the bears too.

他提到了五种技术。

He mentioned five types of technology.

是的。

Yes.

首先，他们大量使用监控和追踪系统。

First of all, they are using a lot for monitoring and tracking system.

我认为当我们看到越南亚洲象的例子时，就能略见一斑——科学家们正在使用无人机和其他系统来监测野生动物的位置和状况。

I think we we have a sort of a glimpse when we are seeing in the Asian elephant case in Vietnam that that scientists are using technologies like drones and other type of system to to keep an eye and on where this wildlife is about and how are they doing.

以及它们是否接近人类居住区。

And if they are getting close to human habitats.

正如他提到的，他们还部署了预警系统。

And they are in placing, as he mentioned, early warning systems.

我想知道这些无人机是用来追踪它们的实时动向，还是两者兼有？

I wonder if the drones are meant to track their real time movements or just their maybe it's both.

或者说，只是观察它们在一天中的总体活动轨迹，了解它们去哪里、做什么，以便持续监控。

Or I was gonna say just their general movements throughout any given day to see where they go and what they're doing so that they can keep an eye on them.

很可能是两者的结合。

Probably a combination of the two.

我想是的。

I think so.

对。

Yeah.

当我看到这些报告时，发现很多无人机在它们上方飞行，试图预测它们的行进路线，以便沿着路线的村民能收到预警。

And when I was seeing the reports, a lot of these drones are flying above them and trying to predict the way or the route that they're going so that they can have maybe a warning to the the villagers alongside the routes.

对。

Right.

我认为这也是人们可以实际采取的一种方式，同时不会影响它们的活动。

And I think that is also one of the ways that people can actually do and at the same time not affecting the movement of them.

而且我认为，像三江里国家公园这样广阔的区域，要让无人机一直飞在空中追踪一切是非常困难的。

And also I think but for a place like as vast as the Sanjangri National Park as usual, it's very difficult to to have a drone flying over the sky all the time and keeping track of everything.

你

You

不可能每只熊都配一架无人机。

can't follow you can't have one drone per bear.

是的。

Yeah.

这不合理。

That's not reasonable.

对吧？

Right?

所以要一直跟踪它们所有个体是很困难的。

So it would be difficult to follow all of them all the time.

而且，教授，她还告诉我，在上海的这个地区实施这种智能监测系统时，其中一个挑战是该区域覆盖的面积非常广阔。

And actually, professor, she also told me it can be one of the challenges when they are trying to implement this kind of intelligent monitoring system in that region in Shanghai simply because the vast land area it covers.

而且，由于高原上恶劣的环境。

And also because of the harsh environment on the Plato.

我们说的是青藏高原，那里也是一个挑战。

We are talking about the Qinghai Tibet Plato, and it's also a challenge there.

但我认为他们正在使用其他技术手段，比如红外摄像头。

But I think they're using other ways of technologies, for example infrared cameras.

我认为，通过多年的调查，正如谢教授提到的，他们发现了一个危险时段，此时棕熊往往会出现在人类活动区域附近。

And I think they found through years of surveying, as Professor Xie mentioned, they found like a danger window when these brown bears tend to, you know, appear near a human hesitation.

像是一个时间窗口。

Like a window of time

是的。

Yeah.

在

During

一个

a

他们发现，尤其是在夜间，晚上8点45分到次日凌晨2点30分之间，就像是熊的宵禁时间。

found, especially at night, between 08:45PM to 02:30AM in the next day is the the, you know, kind of a like a bear curfew.

你看，那会是个可怕的时间段，因为那时人类通常正在家中休息，尤其是在深夜时分，活动量相对较少。

See, that would be a scary time because that's a time of relative inactivity, I would think for human beings who would just be resting in their homes, particularly the later it gets into the night.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是西藏棕熊。

So that's the Tibetan brown bear

是的。

Mhmm.

但野猪也是一个问题。

But there's also an issue with wild boars.

正如我之前提到的，中国野猪的数量目前估计超过两百万，2023年它们被移出了生态、科学和社会保护名录，以便进行更灵活的管理。

The wild boar population, as I mentioned before, in China is now estimated at over 2,000,000, and they were removed from the three value, which means ecological, scientific, and social protected list in 2023 to allow for more flexible management.

关键是这样。

And here's the thing.

南京已成为城市人与野生动物冲突的全球典型案例。

In Nanjing, it has become a global case study for urban human wildlife conflicts.

因为2025年4月，野猪曾冲进江苏电视台。

Because in April 2025, wild boar famously charged into the Jiangsu television station.

天哪。

Goodness.

2025年8月，无人机拍摄到六头野猪整齐列队游过著名的长江，前往新的城市绿地定居。

And in August 2025, drones captured a neat formation of six boars swimming across the famous river Yangtze River to colonize new urban green belts.

2024年底，一头野猪在南京南站附近与列车相撞，导致一名铁路工人死亡。

And then in late twenty twenty four, a boar train collision near also Nanjing South Station led to the death of a railway worker.

这一事件促使中国民航和铁路管理局在华东地区实施新的野生动物防护围栏协议。

And this event spurred the Civil Aviation and Railway Administration to implement the new wildlife proof fencing protocols across Eastern China.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，你知道，野猪。

So, you know, wild boars.

当我们谈论野猪时，对我们很多人来说，看到新闻里六头野猪游过河流可能觉得挺有趣，但在山西、四川等农田众多的省份，这些野猪基本上就是庄稼和牲畜的毁灭者。

When we're talking about wild boars, think for a lot of us seeing that on the news, six boars swimming across the river sounds But like a really fun in fact, for provinces like Shanxi and Sichuan, where there are a lot of farmlands, These wild boars would be a a destroyer, basically, to their crops and to their livestocks.

我读过一份报告，说五到六头野猪能在不到一小时内通过啃食和践踏毁掉一片玉米地。

I think I've read a report saying that, with five or six wild boars, they can devastate one plot of corn in less than an hour through feeding and also trampling.

所以这是一个重大问题。

So it's a major issue.

而且在中国，很多农田都是小农户经营的。

And there are also, like, smallhold you know, a lot of farmlands here in China are smallholder farmers.

例如，在陕西，他们报告说，由于野猪的活动，一周内可能损失高达40%的年产量。

And they've reported, for example, in in Shaanxi, they can lose up to 40% of their annual yields in a single week because of these wild boar activities.

当他们遭遇这种冲突时，对他们的打击可能非常严重。

So it can be very devastating on their part when they are seeing these kind of conflicts.

野猪也可能非常危险。

It's also Wild boars can also be very dangerous as well.

它们确实如此，而且跑得很快。

They can and they're fast.

是的。

Yeah.

它们的速度可以达到每小时30英里左右。

They can get up to about 30 miles per hour.

我读到过，它们非常具有攻击性。

I was reading, they're really aggressive.

它们通常有巨大的獠牙，显然对造成撕裂伤很危险，而且它们还可能携带危险的疾病。

They have these large tusks oftentimes that are really obviously dangerous for lacerations, and they can carry dangerous diseases too.

我看过一个令人心碎的视频。

I saw a heartbreaking video.

看到这一幕，我心都碎了。

It broke my heart to see this.

乍一看，似乎有点好笑，就像你看到野猪游过河一样。

At at first glance, it seems kind of funny, kind of like, you know, maybe watching the boars swim across the river.

是一头野猪闯进了一家餐厅，餐厅的监控摄像头拍下了全过程。

It was a wild boar that had gotten into a restaurant, and the CCTV camera in the restaurant captured it all.

餐厅里的顾客显然都吓坏了。

And, obviously, the customers in the restaurant were freaking out.

他们简直要疯了。

They were losing their minds.

这对他们来说很可怕，但对我来说，看着那只动物在里面却令人心碎，因为你能看出它并不是故意要进去的。

So that was scary for them, but it was heartbreaking for me to watch that animal in there because you could tell it didn't mean to necessarily go in there.

对吧？

Right?

它很害怕。

It was scared.

是的。

Yeah.

它在恐慌，观看这一幕非常艰难。

And it was panicking and it was a tough it was a tough watch.

我忘了这个故事的结局。

And I forget the conclusion of that story.

现在也许不重要，但这些正是我们正在讨论的类型的事情。

It doesn't matter, I suppose, right now, but these are exactly the types of things that we're talking about.

现在还有第三种情况，这也许是三者中最无害的，但仍然存在问题，那就是涉及鸟类。

Now there's a third case and this one maybe seems the most innocent of the three yet still problematic and that involves birds.

是的。

Yeah.

鸟类可能会引发这种冲突。

Birds can create this conflict.

我认为这可能会让大多数人感到惊讶。

I think it can be very surprising to most of us.

你知道，鸟类并不一定是捕食者。

You know, birds are not necessarily predators.

它们不会攻击你的房屋或家畜。

They won't be attacking your homes or your livestocks.

但它们会，例如，所谓地偷走农田的收成。

But they will, for example, quote unquote, steal the the yields of farmlands.

没错。

Correct.

农作物的

The the crops of

农民们。

the farmers.

庄稼。

The crops.

所以一些农民，比如在贵州省，报告说他们损失了高达50%到85%的种薯。

So some farmers, for example, in the province of Guizhou, they reported they lose up to 50 85% of these their seed potatoes.

80%到85%？

8085%?

是的。

Yes.

因为鸟类。

Because of birds.

而且当谈到鸟类时，棘手的部分在于，有些鸟类是受保护的动物。

And also when it comes to birds, and this is the tricky part is that some of the birds are protected animals.

它们是濒危物种。

They're endangered.

所以从农民的角度来看，尽管他们遭受了重大损失，但他们能做的事情却很少。

So from the farmer's point of view, even though they suffered major losses, there isn't much they can do.

首先，你不能杀死它们。

You can't kill them, first of all.

而且，即使它们不是受保护的物种，也不允许随意杀死它们。

And also, even even it's not a protected species, for instance, it's not also not okay to kill them.

但他们确实正在遭受损失。

And but they're suffering losses.

因此，这给地方政府提出了很多问题和责任，即在这些情况下他们能做些什么。

So that put a lot of questions and and, you know, responsibilities to the local governments on what they can do in these cases.

这就是为什么我一开始说，这个问题非常棘手，因为这场冲突的核心是什么词呢？

And that's why I said in the beginning, this is so tricky because the core of this conflict is the what's the right word?

是人类与野生动物在自然环境中的栖息地重叠，对吧？

The overlapping habitats, isn't it, between human beings and wildlife in nature.

而且可能还有其他因素在起作用。

And there can be other things at play.

例如，森林砍伐会迫使动物进入城镇，因为它们再也找不到以前觅食的地方。

For example, deforestation can force animals into towns or cities because they can't find find food where they used to find it anymore.

但即便如此，这种共存仍然因我们双方居住地的重叠而受到损害。

But still, it's this coexistence that that seems to suffer from the overlapping of of where we both live, if you will.

你知道，野生动物非常活跃，但它们也会从与人类的互动中学习。

You know, wildlife is very active, but they also learn from their interactions with humans too.

它们非常聪明。

They are very clever.

是的。

Yeah.

这些动物能够从与人类的互动中学习，同时也让保护工作变得更加复杂。

These animals can learn from interactions with humans and also making conservation work more intricate.

费教授还表示，他和团队在山区附近农民的房屋周围安装了电网和警报系统，这些房屋地处偏远荒野，长期受到一头棕熊的骚扰。

Professor Fei also said after he and his team put up electric fencing and an alert system for farmers' home near the mountains, which was isolated in the wilderness and constantly harassed by a brown bear.

他们过了一段时间回去检查系统时，发现这头熊意识到无法进入房屋后，便转移到了更远的其他房屋。

And they returned some time later to check on the system only to find that the bear realizing it couldn't get into the house traveled further down to other houses.

他还知道，这些聪明且活跃的动物各有不同的性格，有些熊性格温和，喜欢远离人类居住区，而有些则非常凶猛，倾向于攻击人类，甚至袭击牧民。

And he also knows that these smart and also active animals have different personalities even because some bears can be mild and like to stay away from human habitats, and some are just very fierce and tend to attack humans, even herding residents.

这使得人们如何应对或遇到动物时该怎么做变得更加复杂。

And that can make the interactions with the animals or not again, not interactions, but just how to deal or what to do when you encounter the animals.

更令人困惑的是，有些动物可能不像其他动物那样具有攻击性，而这正是我稍后要谈到的澳大利亚案例中的一个重要部分。

More confusing because some might not be as aggressive as others, and actually, that's an important part of the Australian case I'm gonna talk about in a little while.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

所以，熊来到房子，听起来像是个儿童童话故事，不是吗？

So the bear comes and sounds like a children's nursery story, doesn't it?

熊来到房子。

Bear comes to the house.

这只熊进不去，于是它去了下一户。

This one can't get in, so it goes to the next one.

进不了这一个，就去下一个，一直尝试，直到成功为止。

Can't get into this one, so it goes to the next one, and it keeps trying until it's successful.

是的。

Yeah.

所以这更多是逐案处理的工作。

And so it's more of a case by case job.

也许这只熊在发现无法进入这所房子后就会离开，但另一只熊可能会尝试攻击其他房屋。

Maybe this bear, he real after it realized that can getting into this house, it will leave, but maybe another one will try to attack other homes.

所以你永远无法预料。

So you never know.

因此，我们才在讨论与野生动物共存，而这一领域的相关工作会非常耗费时间和资源。

So that's why we're talking about coexisting with wildlife, and the job related in this area can be very, very consuming a lot of time and also resources.

我还和谢教授聊过，总的来说，目前实践中常见的应对措施有哪些？

And I I I also talked to, you know, professor Xie about, in general, you know, first of all, what are the commonly seen response measures in practice nowadays?

我们来听听他是怎么说的。

Let's take a listen about what he said.

一般来说，当局和社区采取了三种类型的措施。

Generally speaking, there are three types of measures adopted by authorities and the communities.

首先，事前措施，如预警系统、电子围栏和针对野生动物种群调控的铁丝网。

Firstly, pre incident measures, such as early warning system and electronic fences and ironic fences at the wildlife population regulation.

其次，事件发生时的措施，指的是发生破坏时的应急响应，包括驱赶和活捉。

Secondly, during incident measures, they refer to emergencies, the responses when damage occurs, including deterrence and the live capture.

第三，事后措施。

Thirdly, post incident measures.

这意味着事件已经发生。

This means the incidents has happened.

它们涉及在损害发生后的救济或补偿。

They involve relief or compensation after the damage had take taken place.

所以我提到的正是这类措施。

So what I have mentioned is exactly this kind of a measure.

相比之下，我认为事前措施最为重要。

Competitively, I believe pre incident measures are the most important.

是的。

Yeah.

因为事前措施是一种前线工具，可以建立物理屏障或感官屏障，防止动物与人类之间发生冲突。

Because the pre incident measures, that would be kind of a frontline tool to create a physical barrier or maybe a sensory barrier between the animals and the humans to prevent the conflict before it happens.

我认为电子围栏就是一个例子，我认为无人机也是这样的一个例子。

And I guess an electronic fence would be an example of that, and I think the drones, I guess, would be an example of that too.

对。

Yes.

例如，尽管谢教授提到他一直在帮助青海当地的牧民安装大量围栏设备，效果确实不错。

And so, for example, even though Professor Xie he mentioned about he has been helping with local herdsmen putting in place a lot of fencing equipment in Qinghai, and it's been quite effective actually.

而且在云南，他们也在使用类似的技术，比如使用地面传感器来监测该地区亚洲象的动态。

And also in Yunnan, for example, they're also using similar technologies, like they're also using ground sensors to sort of also monitoring what's happening with Asian elephants in that region as well.

但还有其他类型的事前措施。

And but there are also other types of pre incident measures.

例如，有一种时间上的隔离措施，可以通过管理人类活动，比如禁止牧民在某些区域放牧。

For example, there are this temporal segregation where they can manage human activities that, for example, enforcing a a place where the herdsmen are not allowed to to to, you know, let out their animals.

所以他们不允许放牧。

So they're not allowed herding.

所以禁止放牧。

So grazing is not allowed.

因此，他们在野生动物通常活动的区域和人类居住区之间设立了缓冲区。

So that they offered these buffer zones between where the wildlife would normally be active and where the humans live.

这个

This

这也是事前措施之一。

is the one of the pre incident measures as well.

而且我认为，正如施教授提到的，当损害发生时，还有应急响应措施。

And I think there were also, as professor Shim talked about, emergency responses when damages occur.

例如，他们正在开发一种由人工智能触发的声光驱赶装置。

That's about, for example, they they are developing an AI triggered acoustic and light deterrent.

光驱赶装置。

Light deterrent.

是的。

Yes.

意思是，例如，当棕熊在半夜接近人类住所时，一些威慑设备会发出它们不喜欢的声音或闪烁灯光，让它们感到危险而离开。

Meaning, for example, when the brown bears are getting close to a human home in the middle of the night and some of the deterrent equipment can send out sounds that they don't like or have lights that sort of meaning that danger to them so that they'll go away.

好的。

Okay.

我认为谢教授还提到，他正在开发一种含有棕熊非常厌恶气味的喷雾。

And I think professor Xie also mentioned he's also developing a spray with the scent that brown bears really hate.

所以当棕熊接近畜群时，如果喷出这种喷雾，棕熊也会离开。

So when a brown bear is getting close to a herd, if he let out that spray, that the brown bear will also leave.

所以事情就是这样发生的。

So That's what happened.

这些可以说是事中措施，如果你愿意这么说的话。

Those are kind of the during measures, if you if you will.

他谈到的事后措施，是在损害发生后提供的救济或补偿，不幸的是，当预防措施失效时，这种情况难免会发生。

The post event measures that he talked about, that would be relief or compensation after the damage, unfortunately, has already taken place when those prevention measures happen to fail, and I guess that's somewhat inevitable.

这些事后措施之一是社会保险模式，

One of those post event measures is the social insurance model that

他们采用的。

they have.

是的。

Yeah.

与政府缓慢的赔付不同，2026年标志着补贴型商业保险的兴起；在云南等省份，农民只需支付象征性的费用，通常为1到2元，其余部分由政府承担。

Instead of these some of the slow government pay payouts, 2026 marks the rise of subsidized commercial insurance, and in provinces like Yunnan, farmers pay a nominal fee, often 1 to 2 yuan, with the government covering the rest.

保险理赔由私营保险公司在七到十天内处理，保费由三级政府共同承担，包括省级、市级和县级。

Insuring claims are settled by private insurers within seven to ten days, and the premium is paid by three levels of government, provincial, and also municipal and county.

当一头亚洲象破坏了村庄的稻田时，农民们联系了相关机构申请赔偿。

When an, for example, an Asian, elephant ruined rice paddies in a village, the farmers called the agency to claim damages.

村级自助基金也在这种情况下提供帮助。

And also village level self help funds is, also helping in this situation.

社区管理的资金池为家庭在正式政府补偿到位前提供紧急援助。

Community managed pools of money that provide immediate emergency relief to families before formal government compensation arrives.

是的

Yeah.

所以这就是我们所说的法律框架。

So this is the legal framework that we're talking about.

对吧？

Right?

这为补偿和保险体系的设计与实施提供了更好的支持。

That's providing better assistance to the design and and compensation of compensation and insurance systems.

这就是我们一开始提到的中国生态环境法。

This is the China ecological and environmental code that we we brought up at the beginning.

是的

Yeah.

而且它实际上在今年两会的几周前刚刚通过。

And it also it's actually passed at this year's two sessions just a few one or two few weeks ago.

根据该法律，省级政府必须建立多元化的补偿体系。

And according to that code, it mandates that provincial governments must establish diverse compensation systems.

因此，目前政策正从建议转变为对省级政府的法律义务。

So right now, the policy is turning from a recommendation to a legal obligation when it comes to provincial governments.

而且该法规将负担从地方（例如县或乡镇政府）转移到了省级和中央政府，因为它们在向农民发放补偿金方面拥有更多的财政资源。

And also the code shifts the burden from local, for example, on the county or township governments, to provincial and central government where they have more of a financial resources when it comes to giving really, you know, handling out this compensation to farmers.

因此，农民不再需要数周、数月甚至数年才能拿到这笔钱。

So it won't take weeks or months or even years for the farmers to get that money back.

是的。

Yeah.

因为对一些人来说，这根本帮不上忙。

Because for some people, that's just that just doesn't really help at all.

因为你需要尽快拿回这笔钱。

Because you need that money back quickly.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

这是我之前想分享的一个故事。

This is the story that I wanted to share before.

这件事其实没发生多久。

This this happened not that long ago, actually.

在澳大利亚有一位加拿大背包客。

There was a Canadian backpacker in Australia.

她当时19岁。

She was 19 years old.

她的名字叫派珀·詹姆斯，她在去晨泳后被发现死在了一处海滩上。

Her name was Piper James, and she was found dead on a beach after going out for a morning swim.

这件事发生在加里。

So this happened on Garry.

如果你之前没听说过，它以前叫弗雷泽岛。

If you've not heard of that before, think it was called Fraser Island before.

这是一个世界遗产名录上的岛屿。

It's a world heritage listed island.

它位于澳大利亚海岸外。

It's off the coast of Australia.

所以发生的事情是，据推测她当时正在晨跑，结果被一群野狗袭击了。

And so what happened was what they speculate happened was is that she was out for a morning jog and she ended up being attacked by a pack of dingoes.

你以前住在澳大利亚。

You used to live in Australia.

是的。

Yep.

你以前听说过野狗吗？

Have you heard of dingoes before?

不太了解。

Not really.

我想它们生活在野外。

I guess they're in the wilderness.

对。

Yeah.