对人们说“不”的营销魔力

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're tuned in to Roundtable.

今天我和费菲以及玉新一起主持。

I'm Steve Hatherley today with Fei Fei and Yushin.

接下来，别再广撒网了。

Coming up, forget casting a wide net.

最热门的新营销策略是告诉客户：走开。

The hottest new marketing strategy is telling customers to go away.

什么？

What?

这说不通。

Doesn't make sense.

让我们来看看劝阻在营销中的惊人力量。

Well, look at the surprising power of dissuasion in terms of marketing.

之后，他们在美國進行了一項調查，發現下午早些時候是人們最容易疲憊的時段。

After that, they conducted a survey in America and they found that early afternoon is the time that most people crash.

這其實一點都不令人意外。

Now, that's not really surprising at all.

但他們問了一些關於個人精力水平的有趣問題，今天我們會做一個有趣的測驗。

But they asked some interesting questions about energy levels, personal energy levels, and we'll have a fun quiz about that today.

我們的播客聽眾可以在蘋果播客上找到我們《Roundtable China》，也別忘了我們非常期待聽到你的聲音。

Our podcast listeners can find us Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget that we love to hear your voice as well.

所以請把你的語音留言發給我們。

So send your voice notes our way.

Roundtablepodcast@qq.com。

Roundtablepodcast@qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtablepodcast@qq.com。

Once again, Roundtablepodcast@qq.com.

如果你不喜欢深烘焙，那这款咖啡就不适合你。

And now, if you don't like dark roast, this isn't the coffee for you.

这句话听起来像是失去顾客的绝佳方式，对吧？

That sentence sounds like a great way to lose customers, doesn't it?

传统营销教导企业尽可能扩大覆盖面，但新研究显示，这种排斥性策略实际上可能是一笔财富。

Traditional marketing teaches businesses to cast the widest net possible, but new research suggests that this exclusionary approach might actually be a gold mine.

这是一种被称为‘劝阻’的策略，它颠覆了试图取悦所有人的旧规则。

It's a strategy called dissuasion, and it flips the script on the old rule of trying to please everyone.

通过明确告诉某些人不要购买产品，品牌反而能真正吸引他们想要的客户群体。

By explicitly telling certain people not to buy a product, brands can actually increase interest among the people that they really want.

但拒绝顾客怎么会提升销量呢？

But how does rejecting customers boost sales?

这正是反直觉的定义。

That is the definition of counterintuitive.

说服性营销则恰恰相反。

Persuasive marketing is the opposite.

玉欣和菲菲。

Yuxin and Feifei.

它利用心理学来影响消费者行为，我想最简单的例子就是苹果公司及其所有产品，对吧？

It uses psychology to influence consumer behavior, and I think the easiest example that came to mind for me was Apple and all of their products, right?

情感向往、生活方式、极简主义逻辑。

Emotional aspiration, lifestyle, minimalistic logic.

这些产品是为你准备的，是为每个人准备的。

These products are for you, are for everybody.

但劝阻式营销恰恰相反。

But dissuasive marketing is exactly the opposite.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

这非常有趣，因为您刚才举的例子，史蒂夫，如果你不喜欢深烘咖啡，那这款咖啡就不适合你。

Well, this is very interesting because the example that you just gave out, Steve, if you do If you don't like dark roast, then this isn't the coffee for you.

就说我刚买的黑巧克力吧。

Just ring the bell about the dark chocolate I just bought.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我是在小红书上一位网红的直播里买的。

I bought it on a livestream of one of the influencers on Xiaohongshu.

她原话是这样的。

And her exact phrase is something like this.

这种黑巧克力味道真的很苦。

This dark chocolate tastes really bitter.

如果你不喜欢苦味，特别喜欢甜巧克力，那这款就不适合你。

If you don't like the bitter, if you really like sweet chocolate, then this one is not for you.

立刻下单。

Immediately place the order.

看，就是这样。

See, look at that.

这就是我们今天要讨论的内容。

And that's what we're talking about today.

这是一种劝阻式营销。

That is dissuasive marketing.

那位主播使用的正是传统营销人员所避免的策略，因为大多数品牌都极度害怕得罪任何人，玉森。

That livestreamer used the exact opposite of what traditional marketers use because most brands are absolutely terrified, Yushin, of alienating anyone.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，当我们听到这类话语时，其实很容易就能察觉到这一点。

They are I I think when we are listening or hearing these kind of sentences, it's quite, I would say obvious when we can hear that.

他们明确地拒绝了某类消费者。

They explicitly rejecting that certain group of people of consumers.

对吧？

Right?

劝阻式营销是一种营销策略，品牌会公开表示其产品并不适合某一类特定的消费者群体。

Dissuasion is a marketing strategy where the brand, like, openly states that its product is not suitable for that specific type of personal consumer group.

品牌不是试图取悦所有人，而是明确划出一条界限，界定谁属于、谁不属于。

Instead of trying to please everyone, the brand draws a hard line in the sand to define who belongs and And

谁不属于。

who doesn't.

谁不属于。

Who doesn't.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以

So

嗯。

Mhmm.

研究表明，这种做法反而能强化品牌身份，而不是削弱它。

Research shows that this can sharpen brand identity rather than weaken it.

我觉得是的。

I think yeah.

当他们明确指出特定人群，让你感受到自己很特别，我们的产品就是为你设计的。

When they're also, like, calling out that specific group of people and showing that you are special and our products are designed for you.

他们把这称为丝绒绳效应。

They call this the velvet rope effect.

想象一下夜总会的门童。

Think of a nightclub bouncer.

嗯。

Mhmm.

对吧？

Right?

也许在入口处，他们拉了一条红绳，只有俱乐部的专属会员才能进去。

Maybe at the front door, they have that red rope and only the exclusive members of the club can come inside.

所以，拒绝准入反而让获准进入的人觉得自己是被选中的人。

So denying entry makes the people who are allowed to go in feel like the chosen ones.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在营销中，是的，他们称这为‘丝绒绳索效应’。

So in marketing, yeah, they call this the velvet velvet rope effect.

这完全是同样的道理。

It's exactly the same thing.

如果她刚才说的是什么，你不喜欢吗？

The if you don't like what did she say?

如果你不喜欢苦巧克力

If you don't like bitter chocolate

如果你喜欢甜巧克力，那么这种黑巧克力就不适合你

Sweet if you don't like sweet if you like sweet chocolate, then this dark chocolate is not for

你。

you.

所以，丝绒绳索效应就是让作为苦巧克力爱好者的你，感觉自己更像是一个专属俱乐部的成员。

So the velvet rope effect is making you as a bitter chocolate fan feel more like an exclusive member of a club.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你知道，我要详细说说这位没有点名的网红，她将自己的身份定位在健身和生活方式上。

Because, you know, I'm gonna go detail about that influencer without mentioning his or her name is that she builds her identity around fitness and lifestyle.

我认为销售这种苦味黑巧克力，也与身份认同相关——如果你本身热爱健身、追求清洁健康的生活方式，那么你选择的巧克力就应该是苦味的黑巧克力。

And I think selling this dark chocolate, this bitter dark chocolate sort of also is identity relevant in terms of if you are also someone into fitness and into a clean, healthy lifestyle, your choice of chocolate should be dark, should be bitter.

她的观点和受众主要是那些希望保持身材、有规律锻炼计划的人。

And her view, her audiences are mostly those who want to stay fit, who may have routine workout plans.

他们当然不想要太甜的牛奶巧克力。

And they of course, they don't want really sweet milk chocolate.

他们寻找的是某种更健康的零食，所谓的健康零食。

They're looking for something, some of the healthier snack, quote unquote.

我认为这就是天鹅绒绳索效应发挥作用的方式：他们实际上在告诉你，如果你购买这种产品，那你就是这个社群的一员。

And I think this is how the rope the velvet rope effect comes into play is that they're sort of telling you if you buy this kind of product, then you are one of the community.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

这就是其背后的理念。

And that's the concept behind it.

如今这已成为一种潮流，我开头提到的深焙咖啡，其实是一项不久前的研究内容，他们想弄清楚劝导式营销的真正力量，但这种做法其实早已存在很久了。

Now this has become hot these days, and that that line that I opened with about the coffee, dark roast coffee, that was actually done in a study, not so long ago where they wanted to find out exactly the power of dissuasive marketing, but it hasn't it it's been around for a long time.

早在2011年，一家名为巴塔哥尼亚的户外服装公司就推出过一个著名的广告活动。

There was a famous advertising campaign way back in 2011 from a clothing company, an outdoor clothing company called Patagonia.

2011年，他们在《纽约时报》上刊登了一整版广告。

And what they did in 2011 was they placed a full tie a full page advertisement in the New York Times.

他们选择在黑色星期五刊登这则广告。

They put it there on Black Friday.

这是美国一个重要的购物日。

That's a huge shopping day in America.

对吧？

Right?

广告上展示的是他们的一款夹克。

And it was a picture of one of their jackets.

广告的内容如下：不要购买这件夹克。

And the ad, the advertisement read as follows, don't buy this jacket.

哦。

Oh.

从广告的角度来看，这看起来像一个糟糕的广告。

Now from an advertising perspective, that looks like a terrible advertisement.

这看起来像是一个糟糕的决定，但这就是他们所说的。

It looks like a terrible decision, but this is what they said.

这就是公司对这件事的说明。

This is what the company said about that.

这是来自他们的主页。

This is from their homepage.

我们的使命之一是激励并实施解决环境危机的方案。

It's part of our purpose to inspire and implement solutions to the environmental crisis.

如果我们不鼓励顾客在购买前认真思考，却还致力于环境变革，那将是虚伪的。

It would be hypocritical for us to work for environmental change without encouraging customers to think before they buy.

为了减少环境破坏，我们必须减少消费，同时以更环保、危害更小的方式生产产品。

To reduce environmental damage, we all have to reduce consumption as well as make products in more environmentally sensitive, less harmful ways.

那么这个活动成功了吗？

So was that campaign successful?

嗯，答案是极其成功。

Well, highly successful is the answer.

它推动销售额增长了30%，超过5亿美元，并且由于采用了真诚的、以可持续发展为核心的营销策略——向受众和客户传达了真实的负面事实，从而增强了品牌忠诚度，吸引了更多顾客。

It drove a 30% increase in sales to well over $500,000,000 and it strengthened brand loyalty because of the authentic sustainability focused marketing strategy by telling their audience, their customers the bad truth, it drew more customers

让他们更青睐。

to them.

是的。

Yeah.

在我看来，这一切似乎有点自相矛盾。

It's all sort of seems to me a bit of self contradictory.

矛盾。

Contradictory.

这似乎是在挑战消费主义，但实际上却在鼓励更多的购买。

It sort of are trying to challenge consumerism while in reality is encouraging more purchases.

我想这在某种程度上迎合了很多人渴望独特、渴望与众不同的心态，你知道，如果我买了这种产品，就意味着我和别人不一样。

I guess it sort of tap into the the psychology needs of a lot of people of feeling unique, feeling distinctiveness, you know, it's more like if I buy this kind of product, it means that I'm different from the rest of the people.

这背后就是这种心理。

That's the psychology behind it.

背后的心理。

Behind it.

是的。

Yeah.

在中国文化或这里的营销文化中，有类似的例子吗？

Are there examples of this in Chinese culture, in marketing culture here?

我觉得有。

I think so.

这些只是这些品牌的一些例子。

And this is just examples of these brands.

他们试图通过不说某些话来展现这些观点，或者说是通过不直接表达来展示自己的某些特质。

They are trying to use some of these statements by not saying or like, they're trying to show some of their characteristics by not saying that.

有一个品牌生产的矿泉水味道糟糕透顶。

So, one of the brands that is making horribly bad taste mineral water.

就是来自青岛的崂山矿泉水。

It is like the the the Laoshan mineral water from Qingdao.

他们主动拥抱了‘历史上最难喝的饮料’这个网络绰号。

They actively embrace the online nickname, the worst tasting drink in history.

真的吗？

Oh, really?

是的。

Yeah.

他们积极而公开地接受了这个称号，并将其作为标语或广告宣传。

They they actively and openly accept that title and then starting to advertise it as the kind of slogan or the the advertisement for them.

他们甚至把瓶装水寄给了某些网络红人。

And they actually send bottles of their water to some influencers Oh.

而且去验证一下它们是否真的那么难喝，结果发现所有人都说它味道真的很差。

And to see if they're actually that bad taste bad taste, and the result is that all of them are saying that it's really bad taste.

有趣的策略。

Interesting strategy.

这也引发了人们的好奇心。

It also triggers the curiousness.

没错。

Exactly.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且他们试图——我觉得是的。

And they are trying to I think yeah.

很多品牌都是这样，不管是在矿泉水还是巴塔哥尼亚身上，它们都试图通过不说出具体的特征来塑造品牌形象，而是使用这种隐含的表达方式。

This is a lot of these brands, no no matter it's the the Mineral Water or Patagonia, they are trying to, I think, illustrate the image of that brand and by not saying the specific characteristic they are having, they are just using that kind of the the the the hidden sentences that they're using.

这让我想起了另一个品牌。

That reminds me of another brand.

许多中国品牌正在放大自己的缺点。

Well, a lot of Chinese brands, they are sort of amplifying their shortcomings.

我认为有一家中国饮料品牌把差评印在了包装上。

I think that one of the Chinese drink brand use print their bad reviews on their packaging.

印在包装上？

On their packaging?

是的。

Yeah.

比如写着‘味道不好’或‘广告太多’之类的文字。

With words like it tastes bad or they run too many ads.

这反而会引发人们最初对这个品牌的关注。

And that sort of trigger people to to sort of start to pay attention to the brand in the first place.

然后可能有些人就会去购买。

And then maybe some of them will bought will make the purchase.

还有另一个餐厅的例子，我觉得更贴切地体现了劝阻式营销，是一家在中国卖泡菜鱼的餐厅。

And then another restaurant, I think, would be a more real real real relevant example to dissuasive marketing is about a restaurant in China selling pickled vegetable fish.

它有一些规定，比如不允许拼桌，不能调整辣度，也不提供外带服务。

And it has freight it used to have freights, such as we do not allow shared tables and no adjustments on the spicy levels or not available for take house.

他们试图将自己打造为高端、精致的餐饮品牌，而其他品牌则允许外带、拼桌，并可根据顾客需求调整菜品的辣度。

They're trying to build themselves as this high higher end and fine finer dining brands compared to other brands who are allowing takeouts, who are allowing shared tables, who can make adjustments when it comes to the spicy levels of their dishes.

排他性。

Exclusivity.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

我找到一个例子。

There's an example that I found.

这是一种水。

Now this is water.

它就是单纯的水而已。

It's it's nothing more than that.

这就是水。

It's water.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

它叫液体死亡。

And it's called liquid death.

他们发布了一张专辑。

And they released an album.

这家公司完全逆流而行。

The company this company goes against the grain 1000000%.

他们发布了一张名为《最恨之歌》的专辑，里面全是那些不理解这个品牌的人的负面评价和愤怒留言。

They released an album called Greatest Hates, and the album is literal negative reviews and angry comments who don't get the brand.

这种水装在罐子里，看起来像能量饮料。

The water comes in advert or in cans, excuse me, that looks like energy drinks.

所以它营造出一种叛逆、酷炫的坏男孩坏女孩形象。

So it has this kind of like bad boy bad boy bad girl image to it.

他们在社交媒体上的广告里会说脏话。

Their advertisements on social media, they swear.

他们在广告中使用粗俗语言，一切都反其道而行之，这个产品现在非常火爆，非常火爆。

They use bad language in their advertisements, and everything just goes against the norm, and that product is hot, hot, hot.

但为什么是现在？

But why now?

我的意思是，我之前提过。

I mean, I mentioned it before.

你知道，巴塔哥尼亚的例子是2011年的，但为什么现在突然爆发了？

You know, the Patagonia example was from 2011, but why is this exploding now?

背后的原因是什么？

What's the reasons behind it?

有一群人，这些策略正是在试图找到这群人。

There is a group of people and these strategies are trying to find out that group group of people.

他们渴望获得那种归属感，因为在2025年和2026年，消费者越来越追求这种归属感。

They want to seek that kind of belonging because it feels like in 2025 and 2026, consumers are increasingly seeking that sense of belonging.

许多品牌宁愿拥有1000名忠实粉丝，也不愿拥有10000名漠不关心的顾客。

Many brands would rather have, let's say, 1,000 devoted fans than just 10,000 indifferent customers.

他们试图营造一种社区氛围，让人们对我说：我属于这个社群和这些品牌。

They're trying to create that community showing people that I belong to this community and these brands.

如果这些消费者足够忠诚，他们创造的利润可能比那10000个不同顾客还要多。

If these consumers are loyal enough, they can be just create more, I think, profit than that 10,000 different customers.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我觉得就像史蒂夫刚才举的例子，Liquid Death品牌非常清楚他们的目标受众是那些热衷于这种文化的人。

Because I think just like the example that Steve just gave out, the liquid death, they have a very clear picture about their targeted audiences is people who are into that kind of culture.

我认为另一个正在发挥作用的因素是，近年来营销主要通过数字社交媒体平台进行。

And I think another factor I play at play is how marketing is done in recent years is mostly on digital social media platforms.

所以，我认为算法是关键因素。

So algorithm is, I think, the key factor in

社交媒体。

Social media.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当品牌试图确定需要采取何种策略时。

When brands are trying to see what kind of strategy they need to take on.

明白。

Yeah.

因为在社交媒体上，刷、刷、刷，划、划、划，如果你使用说服性营销，这就是他们所说的，现在的年轻顾客、年轻消费者，他们的'废话检测器'非常灵敏。

Because in social media, swipe, swipe, swipe, scroll, scroll, scroll, If you use persuasive marketing, this is what they say that young customers, young consumers now, their BS meter is very high.

如果他们觉得一家公司是在试图说服他们，而不是对他们坦诚相待。

And if they feel like a company is trying to persuade them rather than be honest with them.

他们不仅仅是反感，而是憎恶。

They don't just dislike it, they hate it.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

所以算法那边对这种内容没有强烈的反应。

So and then the algorithm so there's no strong reactions for that.

但这类反营销活动会引发大量反应，而这非常符合算法的偏好。

But with these kind of anti marketing campaigns, if you will, They get reactions, and that's very algorithm friendly.

这就是为什么一些这样的策略能奏效。

So that's why some of these strategies work.

那家水公司的一则广告就是这么说的。

That water company, one of their commercials said this.

我把它记下来了，因为我觉得很好笑。

I wrote it down because it made me laugh.

多年来，你们一直被那些营销傻瓜误导，以为水是给练瑜伽的妈妈们喝的。

For years, you've been convinced by marketing morons that water is for yoga moms.

他们简直对人们感到生气。

Like they get mad at people almost.

对吧？

Right?

这只不过是我们不常看到的东西。

It's just something that we're not used to seeing.

你正在收听《圆桌论坛》。

You're listening to Roundtable.

今天我是史蒂夫，和Fei Fei以及Yuxin一起。

I'm Steve today with Fei Fei and Yuxin.

接下来，你通常什么时候会崩溃？

And coming up, what time of the day do you usually crash?

在寻找激情吗？

Looking for passion?

那热烈的辩论呢？

How about fiery debate?

想从不同视角了解中国时事吗？

Wanna hear about current events in China from different perspectives?

那就锁定《圆桌论坛》，东西方交汇，目标是相互理解。

Then tune in to round table where East meets West and understanding is the goal.

这里是Roundtable，我是Steve，还有Fei Fei和Yushun。

This is round table with myself, Steve, Fei Fei, and Yushun.

你有没有那种感觉？下午正中间，脑子像糊了一样，动力跌到谷底，满脑子只想睡觉，睡觉，睡觉，睡觉。

You know that feeling it's the middle of the afternoon, your brain has turned to mush, and your motivation has hit the floor, and all you can think about is nap, nap, nap, nap.

我们称之为午后倦怠，根据美国一项新的全国性调查，这个时刻有明确的时间点：下午2点06分。

Well, we call it the afternoon slump, and according to a new national survey in America, it has an official time stamp, 02:06PM.

那是美国人的精力最低谷的时刻，但这种崩溃其实并不令人意外。

That's when the average American's energy bottoms out, but the crash is not really surprising.

不过，他们确实对这些人做了一项调查。

They did a survey though of these people.

这项调查由Talker Research代表Zipfizz公司进行，目的是了解个人精力状况。

It was done by Talker Research on behalf of Zipfizz, and they wanted to find out about energy, personal energy.

所以我把他们问的问题整理出来，现在要问一问正在收听我们节目的你们。

So what I've done is I've taken the questions that they asked them, and I'm gonna ask them to you if you're listening, to our show.

你们也可以回答这些问题，看看自己是同意还是不同意。

You can also answer these questions and see if you agree or if you disagree.

好的。

Alright.

我们开始吧。

So here we go.

第一个问题。

Question number one.

如果获得无限的能量，大多数美国人会优先做什么？

When given the hypothetical gift of unlimited energy, what did most Americans say they would prioritize doing?

A，完成工作并提高效率；B，花更多时间锻炼和改善健康；或C，花更多时间与家人和朋友相处？

A, catching up on work and being more productive, b, spending more time exercising and improving their health, or c, spending more time with family and friends?

如果拥有无限的能量，他们会怎么使用？

If given unlimited energy, how would they spend it?

我觉得是B。

I would say b.

B？

B?

花更多时间锻炼和改善健康。

Spending more time exercising and improving their health.

因为这背后有科学依据。

Because there

有科学依据。

is science behind that.

我只是在猜测，没有受到任何刻板印象的影响。

I I I am I'm just guessing out without any like stereotypical thoughts.

我觉得还是和家人在一起。

I think just being with families.

C。

C.

正确答案是C。

And the answer is c.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

连接胜过效率。

Connective connection over productivity.

当从疲劳中解脱出来时，18%的受访者表示，他们的首要任务是与朋友和家人共度更多时光，这是排名第一的答案。

When freed from fatigue, eighteen percent of respondents said their top priority would be more time with friends and family, and that was the number one answer.

你怎么看这个？

What do you think about that?

这听起来挺有道理的，但我对这项调查本身不太确定，这些科学家的抽样群体如何。

It kind of makes sense, of course, but I'm not sure about the the survey side, the pool of these scientists are doing.

我觉得独处的时间也很重要，比如锻炼，我的回答在某种程度上也取决于具体情况。

I think also spending time alone, like exercising, my my answer to that question also matter on on some certain extent.

但我明白，当你感到低落时，能量水平下降，就不太想和朋友、家人，或者你爱的人交流。

But I do get that when you feel low, you have like lower level of energy talking to friends and fam talking to people you love and that matter to you.

关键就在于，当我们没有精力时，根据这个答案，我们实际上是在从最重要的人身上偷走时间。

That's the point is that when we don't have energy, it's actively stealing time from the people who matter most to us according to that answer.

好的。

Okay.

下一个来了。

Here's the next one.

当精力不足时，大多数美国人首先会放弃什么活动？

When energy runs low, what is the first activity most most Americans sacrifice?

A. 与朋友社交，B. 在家做饭，或 C. 锻炼。

A, socializing with friends, b, cooking meals at home, or c, exercising.

当你精力低落时，你最先放弃什么？

When your energy gets low, what do you sacrifice first?

我会说做饭，因为快餐实在太普遍了。

I would say cooking because fast food is just really famous.

你是在试图把这和美国文化联系起来。

You're you're trying to tie this to American culture.

是的。

Yeah.

想想吧，就想想人类。

Just think human just think human beings.

嗯，

Well,

我觉得，因为第一个问题的答案是和朋友家人多相处能带来无限能量，所以我还是会选a，和朋友社交。

I'm I'm sort of feeling that since the answer to question one is about spending more time with friends and family will give you unlimited energy, I would still go with a, socializing with friends.

在这种情况下，正确答案是c，锻炼。

In this case, the answer is c, exercising.

这是他们对此的解释。

This was the what they said about it.

是的。

Yes.

我们的健康目标是最脆弱的。

Our health goals are the most fragile.

有44%的人表示，他们没有足够的精力像期望的那样经常锻炼，这是最常见的牺牲项。

Forty four percent of people reported that they don't have enough energy to exercise as often as they like, and it is the most common casualty.

精力不足，缺乏锻炼。

Low energy, no exercise.

哦，这还引发了一系列连锁反应。

Oh, and it also created a domino effect.

百分之三十四的人表示，他们会像你说的那样，牺牲与朋友的社交活动；百分之三十一的人会放弃户外活动，百分之二十九的人会停止在家做饭，但锻炼仍然是首要被放弃的。

Thirty four percent said that they would sacrifice socializing like you said, Fei Fei, and thirty one percent would give up outdoor time, and twenty nine percent would stop cooking at home, but exercise is number one.

锻炼不足会让你们俩都停止锻炼吗？

Does low exercise stop both of you from exercising?

是的。

Yes.

每当我熬夜，第二天早上我通常还是会去锻炼。

Whenever I kind of stay up late, the next day I I usually do exercise in the morning.

所以如果第二天我熬夜了，我就会停止锻炼。

So the next day, if I stay up late, I will stop doing exercise.

首先，这不健康。

First of all, it's unhealthy.

是的。

Yeah.

其次，我根本不会有那种精力和状态去做任何锻炼。

And second of all, I will just don't have that kind of energetic mood and vibe to do all of the exercises.

是的。

Yeah.

对我来说，如果这种低能量来自心理原因，比如我压力特别大，我会出去跑步。

For me, if that low energy come from mental reasons, if I'm very, very stressful, I would just go out, go for a run.

这样反而能让我重新恢复精力。

That would sort of bring back my energy back.

哦，所以低能量反而会让你更想锻炼？

Oh, so low energy actually leads you to exercise more?

对。

Yes.

但这种情况只在我心理压力大的时候才会发生。

That's only when I'm mentally stressed.

是的。

Yeah.

不是身体上的疲惫。

Not physically stressed.

这真令人印象深刻。

That's impressive.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Alright.

这里有个有趣的问题。

Here's an interesting question.

如果人们可以选择一周中某一天获得巨大的能量提升，最受欢迎的是哪一天？

If people could choose one day of the week to receive a major energy boost, which was the most popular day?

A，周五，为周末充电；B，周六，获得更多个人时间；或者C，周一，迎接一周的挑战。

A, Friday, to power into the weekend, b, Saturday for more personal time, or c, Monday to tackle the week.

如果你可以选择一天获得巨大的能量提升，你会选哪一天？

If you could choose one day to receive a major energy boost, which day would it be?

周五、周六还是周一？

Friday, Saturday, or Monday?

周一。

Monday.

因为周一是你从假期回来后最没精神的一天。

Because Monday is the the the the day that you just don't have a lot of energy coming back from holiday.

我也是。

Me too.

周一来解决那种周一综合症。

Monday to to solve that Monday blue thing.

是的。

Yeah.

我不会选周一。

I would not choose Monday.

什么？

What?

因为周一本来就是周一。

Because Monday's Monday anyway.

所以即使你更有精力

So even if you have more energy

但周一太有压力了。

But Monday's so stressful.

但我一直在想，如果我们周一获得能量提升，可能周二还是会很紧张。

But I was thinking that if we got that energy boost on Monday, we may have stressful Tuesday.

为什么？

Why?

因为周二就是

Because Tuesday is

新的周一。

the new Monday.

所以星期二就会变成一个新的星期一。

So Tuesday would become a new Monday.

你只是在推迟不可避免的事情。

You're just delaying the inevitable.

我喜欢你对这个问题的思考方式。

I like the way you think about that.

这个问题的答案是星期一，以应对这一周。

The answer to this question was Monday to tackle the week.

是的。

Yeah.

我原本以为周五或周六会更有精力迎接周末，因为之前的回答是：如果我没有足够的精力，那就没有足够的时间，或者没有足够的精力陪伴朋友或家人。

I assumed it would be Friday or Saturday for more energy for the weekend because the previous answers were, if I don't have enough energy, then I don't have enough time or I don't have enough energy to spend with my friends or my family.

所以我以为周五或周六会是精力的提升点，但完全不是这样。

So I thought Friday or Saturday would have been the energy boost, but no, not at all.

干得好，你答对了。

Well done, you nailed the quiz.

以下是我在那项研究中发现的一些其他有趣结论。

Here are some other interesting takeaways I found from that study.

他们发现，疲劳会伴随着内疚感，当被问及在精力不足时最感到内疚的是什么时，32%的人说是锻炼，26%的人说是家务整理，25%的人说是自我照顾。

They found that that fatigue comes with guilt, and when they asked what people felt most guilty about, neglecting, when energy was low, 32 said exercise, 32% exercise, 26 said home organization, 25% said self care.

我觉得这一点也特别引人注目，而最具说服力的数据是，56%的人表示，精力不足直接影响了他们完成事情的能力，这正好呼应了今天节目中第一个故事——把你不想要做的事情外包出去。

I guess that kind of stood out to me as well, and perhaps the most telling stat is that fifty six percent said a lack of energy directly impacts their ability to get things done, which ties back to story number one today on our show, outsourcing the things that you don't want to do.

圈起来。

Circle.

谢谢你们的帮助，机器人。

Thank you, robots, for your help.

今天下午的圆桌讨论就到这里。

That'll do it for roundtable for this afternoon.

非常感谢大家今天抽出时间与我们共度时光。

Thank you very much for spending your time with us today.

无论多累，我是史蒂夫。

Tired or not, I'm Steve.

她是菲菲。

She's Feifei.

他是玉新。

He's Yushin.

我们一同感谢您，并请下次再来。

We all thank you together, and please do return next time.