你命运的主宰辩论

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

是圆桌论坛。

Is Roundtable.

从北京的心脏到全球舞台的边缘，你正在圆桌论坛。

From the heart of Beijing to the edges of the global stage, you're at Roundtable.

我是牛红林。

I'm Niu Hong Lin.

曾经，研究生考试是学术上的备选方案——万一就业市场不好，万一别人都在考，万一你还不知道自己想要什么。

Once upon a time, the postgraduate exam was the academic equivalent of just in case the job market was bad, just in case everyone else was doing it, just in case you didn't know what you wanted yet.

如今，越来越多的学生在做另一种数学计算：将三年的学习与三年的工作经验、收入和技能积累进行比较。

Nowadays, more and more students are doing another kind of math, comparing another three years of study with three years of work experience, income, and skill accumulation.

积累。

Accumulation.

当回报变得不确定时，年轻人——常被指责为冲动——却表现出令人惊讶的谨慎。

When returns look uncertain, young people, often accused of being impulsive, are behaving with surprising caution.

让我们进入这个故事，看看他们是如何重新思考未来的。

Let's get into the story and find out how they are rethinking their future.

在今天的节目中，我邀请到了余顺和史蒂夫·哈瑟利。

For today's show, I'm joined by Yu Shun and Steve Hatherley.

现在请坐下来，加入我们的对话吧。

Now pull up a chair and join the conversation.

还记得以前人人都在考硕士吗？

Remember when everyone and their cousin was a master's candidate?

如今的趋势是先工作，找到自己的热情，再考虑是否继续深造。

Now the trend is work first, find out your passion, and maybe study later.

学生们开始觉得，也许再过三年吃食堂的日子，已经不是他们想要的生活方式了。

Students are deciding that maybe, just maybe, three more years of cafeteria food isn't the vibe anymore.

让我们聊聊为什么图书馆现在人少了一些，而招聘会却人满为患。

Let's talk about why the library is now a little bit more empty and the job fairs are packed.

我们先从中国的研究生入学考试说起吧，因为这里的制度有点不一样。

So let's start with the examination for postgraduate study here because here in China, the system is a little bit different.

嗯。

Yeah.

在许多国家，你申请研究生院时需要提供本科成绩、个人陈述、推荐信，以及可能的标准化考试成绩，比如GRE或雅思。

In many countries, you apply to graduate school with your undergraduate grades, personal statement, maybe recommendation letters and maybe a standardized test like the GRE or ALTS.

你去申请。

You apply for it.

是的。

Yes.

而在中国，大多数硕士项目都是通过全国统一考试的成绩来录取，而这个考试成绩是最重要的因素。

And in China, for most masters programs, you score on a nationwide standardized exam and, that the score of this exam is the most important factor.

所以它主要包含两个主要部分。

So it mainly has two main components.

一个是初试。

One is the initial, exam.

这基本上是笔试。

It is basically the written tests.

全国所有的考生都在同一时间参加这些考试。

Every single candidate in the country sits for these exams at the same time.

三到四门科目，比如政治、外语，这些都是必考科目，对于工程类等某些专业，数学也是必考的。

Three to four subjects like politics, foreign language, that's kind of the mandatory subject that you need to take, and also maths for some of the majors if you're in the engineering, something like that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且

And

抱歉打断一下，但我需要确认一下。

then so sorry to interrupt, but just so I'm clear.

所以有些科目是所有学生都必须考的，然后根据你所学的专业不同，考试内容会变得专业化或多样化。

So some of the subjects all the students have to take, and then it becomes specialized or diversified depending on what it is you're studying.

是的。

Yes.

这非常合理。

And it makes quite a lot of sense.

我的意思是，每种制度都有其优缺点，这一点是肯定的。

I mean, there are definitely upsides and downsides for each system, for every system for sure.

而在这里，如果我们看这个制度，优点在于它确实公平，因为所有人都参加同样的考试，达到一定的标准后，就能去面试可能成为你未来导师或专业老师的那些人。

And here, if we look at this system, the upside is that it's definitely fair because you take the same kind of examination, you pass a certain kind of benchmark, and then you go to the interview with the people who might be your mentor, your major teacher in the future who

那是第二部分。

That's the second part.

是的。

Yes.

这正是玉顺稍后要解释的，但人们也有一点争议的是，作为标准化考试，确实有些人虽然非常擅长这个专业，却因为不擅长纸笔考试而缺乏展示的机会。

That's what Yushun is about to explain But a bit later as the thing that people also argue a little bit would be that as a standardized examination, definitely, some people might be really good for this major, but they lack the opportunity to show it because they're bad at taking paper tests.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

这也是有可能的。

It's also possible.

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且你首先得达到那个分数要求

And then because you have to, first of all, meet that certain score

嗯。

Mhmm.

对，学校的要求。

Right, requirements of the school.

如果你通过了全国分数线和所选大学的特定分数要求，就会被邀请参加大学自行组织的第二轮考核。

If you pass that national cutoff and the specific score requirements of your chosen university, you're invited to that second stage run by the university itself.

主要是专业面试，通常由该校教授组成的评审小组进行，有时还包括专业笔试、实验测试，或者英语口语测试。

Mostly just a professional interview often with a panel of professors of this school, and then specialized to written or lab tests or sometimes an English oral test.

这基本上是为了证明第二轮招生的合理性。

That's basically to prove that the second round of the enrollment.

我们解释这个考试的原因是，如果你处于一种需要申请研究生学位的体系中，申请的成本就是你花在介绍和准备过往经历上的时间。

And the reason we're explaining the examination is that if you are in a kind of system that requires you to apply for your postgraduate degree, the cost of applying would be the amount of time you spend introduction, on preparing for your past experiences.

如果你有钱支付申请费，就可以申请不同的大学和学院。

And you can apply for different universities and different schools if you have the money to the application fee.

申请很贵吗？

It is it expensive to apply?

这正是我在说的事情。

That's the thing, what I'm talking about.

在中国大陆，不是这样的制度。

It's not the kind of system here in the Chinese Mainland.

这是在其他社会的情况。

It's in other societies.

所以，在其他社会，你可以申请多所学校。

So if it's in other societies, you can apply for multiple schools.

但在中国，你参加的是研究生入学统一考试，这意味着一旦你报名，你就明确有意愿未来攻读研究生。

But here in China, you take the standardized one exam for the postgraduate study, meaning that if you sign up for the study, you definitely have a willingness to be a postgraduate student in the future.

其次，你不能像想申请多少所学校就申请多少所，这意味着报名研究生考试的人数具有一定的参考意义，我们可以分析这个数字，它能反映出社会或学生对攻读研究生的意愿程度。

And second is that you can't really apply for or sign up for as many schools as you want, which means the number of people signing for the postgraduate exam makes a little bit sense in the sense that you we can analyze that number, and that number would show how much of a willingness the society or the students you have to apply for a postgraduate study.

我们解释这一点是因为现在我们看到了这里数字的不同趋势。

And we are explaining this because now we see a different trend in the number here.

是的。

Yeah.

我们可以看到数据正在发生变化。

What we can see is that the stats is changing.

《中国经营报》的数据显示，2024年约有438万人报名参加中国全国硕士研究生入学考试，较2023年的474万人减少了36万人。

National Business Daily's data is showing that in 2024, about 4,380,000 people signed up for China's national master's degree entrance exam, down 360,000 from 4,740,000 in 2023.

这是在连续八年增长之后的首次下降。

It marked the first decline after eight straight years of growth.

是的。

Yeah.

那是2024年。

That was 2024.

而到了2025年，下降趋势仍在继续。

And then in 2025, the drop continued.

报名人数降至388万，而到2026年——也就是我们现在所处的年份——这一数字进一步下滑至343万。

Registrations fell to 3,880,000, and then by 2026, which is where we are now, of course, that number slid further to 3,430,000.

比前一年减少了45万，与2023年相比，总降幅超过130万。

That's 450,000 fewer than the year prior and a total decrease of over 1,300,000 compared with 2023.

因此，综合来看，这标志着研究生考试报名人数连续第三年下降。

So if we put all of that together, it marks the third year in a row that postgraduate exam applications have gone down.

然而，我们也有历史数据显示，在下降之前，研究生招生增长就已经放缓了；而且今年，由于我们仍在统计将有多少人被录取攻读研究生，目前还没有确切数据。

Yet we do also have historical data show that postgraduate enrollment growth had already slowed before declining, and also for this year, because we're still looking at how many people would be enrolled in postgraduate study, so we don't have that figure just yet.

但毫无疑问，圆桌讨论正在关注这一问题。

But definitely, roundtable is looking at that.

但如果我们看一下报名参加考试的学生人数，就可以轻易得出结论：至少在过去三年里，我们看到的是意愿的持续下降。

But def well, if we look at the number of how many students have signed up for examination, we can easily draw a conclusion that at least for the past three years, we are seeing a declining willingness.

那么，为什么人们不像他们年长一些的前辈那样热衷于读研，而是觉得研究生可能并不是他们想要的道路呢？

So why aren't people as enthusiastic as those who are a little bit older than them and decided that maybe postgraduate is not the way they wanna go.

这种心态的转变是目前网上热议的原因之一。

The mindset change is one of the reasons that is being heatedly discussed online.

盲目跟风的心态已经消失了。

The blindly following the trend mindset is kind of gone.

以防万一。

Just in case.

是的。

Yeah.

许多学生报名并不是因为自己有明确的职业目标，而是因为周围的人都在这么做。

Many students just signed up not because they had, their clear career goals speak but because everyone around them was doing it.

他们的朋友、同学，甚至家人的期望，给他们造成了这种同辈压力。

Their friends or classmates or even family expectations created this kind of peer pressure for them.

因此，对一些学生来说，这是一种避免在竞争激烈的职业市场、甚至整个社会中落后的手段，或者只是在未来计划不确定时，尤其是在疫情期间的默认选择。

So for some of these students, it was a way to avoid feeling left behind in this kind of competitive, job market or even just this society or simply the default path when future plans felt uncertain, especially during the pandemic.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我认为，对于学生来说，这也可以被看作是一种西方文化的现象。

And I I'd say you you could you could argue that that's a a Western culture thing for students too.

如果你在完成本科学业后还不确定自己想做什么，不清楚想从事哪份工作或哪个职业，那么‘退而求其次’这个词可能不太准确，但或许可以把读研当作一种‘备选计划’，而不是首选计划。

If you're not sure what you want to do with yourself when you're finished your undergraduate degree, if you're not sure which work or which career you want to pursue, then simply falling back falling back might be the wrong choice of words, but maybe going to graduate school as a plan a dash one, if you will, as opposed to plan a.

这不是一个次等的选择，而只是一种选择，让你能有更多时间在学习中理清方向。

Not a lesser choice, but yet just a choice so that you could spend a little bit more time in your studies to figure things out.

是的。

Yeah.

我不认为这是一种错误的计划或类似的东西。

And I don't think it is a, like, wrong plan or something.

这只是一种很好的方式，尤其当你还没想清楚未来方向时——无论是继续深造还是直接进入职场。

It's just it is a good way for you to if you haven't figured out what kind of direction they are going to, whether it's your further study or just going to drop market.

当你处于犹豫不决的阶段时，参加考试并申请攻读研究生是一个不错的选择。

And then when it is the stage that you are kind of hesitating, going to that exam and maybe getting enrolled into a postgraduate is a good choice.

是的。

Yeah.

以前的理论是，这根本不是一个糟糕的计划，因为至少你为自己的未来做了保障。

Well, that that's what the theory was before is that it wasn't a bad plan at all because at least you were securing your future.

而且我认为，这同样可以被视为一种西方的思维方式，或者至少过去是这样：如果你去攻读硕士学位，这至少能在某种程度上——我这里是有双关意味的——为你未来的某些保障提供保证。

And I think, again, you can argue that that's a kind of a Western way of thinking as well, or at least it used to be that if you did go to pursue your master's degree, that it was something that was going to guarantee, at least to a certain degree, pun intended, I suppose, a certain amount of security in the future.

另一个原因或心态上的变化是，我们现在——我想我们在圆桌讨论中也提到过这一点——

And another reason or another mindset change here is that now we I think we've talked about this on Roundtable as well.

对于许多雇主来说，他们会查看你的过往学习经历和教育背景，并考虑你的本科背景。

That is for a lot of employers, they would take a look at your past studying experience, education experience, and take into consideration the undergraduate background.

过去，对一些人、一些学生来说，原因是他们在高中时期觉得，啊，学习不是我的主要事情。

And previously, for some people, for some students, the reason was that during their high school years, they felt like, ah, studying was not my major thing.

我当时太沉迷于校园生活，没有足够努力学习。

I was too busy enjoying my school life and didn't study hard enough.

但在本科阶段，他们的想法发生了变化，希望通过攻读研究生来弥补相对薄弱的本科背景。

But in undergraduate, their mindset changed, and they wanted to go for postgraduate study to kind of offset a relatively weak undergraduate background.

但随着越来越多的雇主也高度重视本科学历，这种做法似乎变得没那么有用或有效了。

But with more and more employer also putting a lot of weight on the undergraduate degree, that move seems a little less useful or effective.

嗯，这个

Well, the

市场变得有点饱和了，如果这么说公平的话，因为过去几十年里，中国大幅扩展了研究生教育。

market got a little bit flooded, if it's if it's a fair thing to say, because over the past decades, China has dramatically expanded its postgraduate education.

例如，仅在2024年，全国就招收了约140万名硕士新生，毕业的硕士生总数超过110万人。

For example, in 2024 alone, the country enrolled about 1,400,000 new master's students, and the total number of graduating master's students reached over 1,100,000.

将此与1998年对比，当时所有本科生和研究生加起来才110万人。

Now compare that to 1998 when all undergraduates and postgraduates combined numbered just 1,100,000.

这意味着，如今拥有硕士学位的人变得普遍多了。

So what that means is it's a lot more common to find a master's degree today

是的。

Yes.

或者拥有硕士学位的人。

Or someone with one.

当然。

Definitely.

而在2023年，我们来看中国非常发达的城市——上海。

And in 2023, we're looking at Shanghai, which is a very developed city here in China.

2023年，研究生就业率约为40%，这意味着即使完成了研究生教育，也并不能保证一定能找到工作。

In 2023, graduate employment rate was was about 40%, meaning that even after postgraduate study, it's still definitely not a guarantee for a position in the job market.

所以，不，拥有硕士学位并不意味着前路一片坦途。

So, no, it's not a smooth sailing just because you have a master's degree.

是的。

Yeah.

我们还必须提到另一个考试，那就是公务员考试。

And there's another exam that we kind of also need to mention that is the civil survey exam.

关于这个考试，还有另一个趋势。

It actually also there is another trend about this exam.

2025年，该考试吸引了约370万符合条件的考生，也创下了新的历史纪录。

It attracted about 3,700,000 qualified applicants in 2025, which is also hitting a new record high.

这一现象表明，越来越多的年轻人被公务员岗位清晰的结构和稳定性所吸引，也就是说，他们被这种明确的职业发展路径所吸引。

This message is is delivering that more young people appearing to be drawn to the clearer structure and stability that these civil service positions can offer, which means that they're just, you know, they're drowned to these, like, clear clear path of their career.

而这正是他们之前所追求的，或者至少是他们以为自己在追求的——再读一个硕士或另一种类型的硕士。

Which is exactly what they were doing before or at least what they thought they were doing before by pursuing another master's or a different type of master's.

在这里，我们试图分析他们的想法，弄清楚他们更倾向于哪些选择，以及这些选择为何优于其他选项。

Here, we're trying to analyze what they're thinking and figuring out what they favor over the kind of what are the choices that they favor over other choices.

但说实话，如果我们回溯十年前，当我们站在人生十字路口时，我们当时在想什么？

But to be honest, if we rethink, like, ten years ago, when we were standing in the crossroads of future, what were we thinking?

我们真的有足够的信息来决定自己人生的未来吗？

Do we really have enough information to decide the future of our lives?

这真的那么明确吗？

Is it really that clear?

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

我认为，部分原因是这些公务员职位之所以吸引人，是因为我们对世界的其他部分知之甚少。

I think the reason part of the reason that these kind of civil servants' positions that are quite attractive or seems to be attractive is that we don't really know about the other part of the world.

我们并不清楚其他公司具体岗位的工作内容是什么。

We don't really know what other positions in a specific company, what does that entail.

但我们知道，地方政府办公室的职位意味着我必须投入大量时间学习，了解该做什么，但我有能力去学习，而这种路径可能相对更稳定。

And we do know that a position in a local government office mean would mean that I would definitely need to study a lot and learn about what to do, but I will have the ability to learn, and maybe that is relatively more stable.

所以

So

是的。

Yeah.

你谈的是确定性与不确定性。

You're talking about certainty versus uncertainty.

是的。

Yes.

如果你想想，高中生对未来没有任何确定性。

And if you think about it, high school students don't have any certainty about their future.

本科生也不一定对未来有确定性，这或许取决于他们所学的专业。

Undergraduate students don't necessarily have any certainty about their future, depending perhaps on the program that they're studying.

所以，如果你在考虑攻读硕士学位

So if you're considering doing a master's degree

这是一种确定性。

It's certainty.

你至少希望有一点确定性。

You hope for at least a little certainty.

你过去七年接受教育，从高中到本科，一直没有任何确定性。

You've spent the last seven years of your education going back to high school and your undergraduate degree without any certainty at all.

所以，这正是年轻人现在所追求的东西，而调查数据也证实了这一点。

So this is just something that young people are looking for now, and numbers through a survey confirmed that.

因此，他们被问到：在攻读硕士学位时，你在寻找什么？

So they asked, what are you looking for when you're pursuing a master's degree?

这是来自中国一家咨询公司2024年的一项就业研究调查，以下是调查结果。

This is from a 2024 employment research paper or research survey, excuse me, done by a consulting firm here in China, and here are the answers.

就业或就业能力，以及长期职业发展支持。

Employment or employability and support in a long term career and development.

48%的人表示，他们攻读硕士学位是为了更好的就业前景，45%的人认为这对他们的职业发展是必要的。

48% said they pursue a master's degree for better job prospects, and 45% said it's necessary for their professional growth.

所以你可以看出这种心态。

So you can see the mindset there.

将近一半的人表示，为了在职业生涯中取得成功，攻读硕士学位是必要的，尽管他们并不确定自己未来会从事什么职业；48%的人认为这能带来更好的就业机会。

Almost half said it's necessary for me to be successful in my career even though I don't necessarily know what that career is going to be, And 48% believed that it was for better a better opportunity to get a job,

一项更有意思的调查结果显示，超过一半的中国大学生计划攻读研究生，他们的焦虑水平明显高于那些不打算继续深造的人，因为这些人对自己的人生方向尚不明确。

more Interesting result from a survey show that over half of the Chinese university students plan to pursue graduate study, and their anxiety levels are noticeably higher than those who do not because these people might not have a clear path about their life just yet.

他们也许有。

They might have.

我们不知道。

We don't know.

但可以肯定的是，他们比那些决定‘我可以直接找工作，因为我很确定’或‘让我冒险试试’的人更加在意这一点。

But definitely, they care a bit more than those who decided that, well, I can have a job because I'm sure or let me risk it.

所以这与心理学、集体心理也有关系。

So it's it has something to do with psychology, collective psychology as well.

是的。

Yeah.

这实际上引出了人们另一种心态，或者说是他们价值观的变化。

That actually leads to another mindset that people are having or the change the the changed value that they are having.

许多年轻学生并不崇拜学历。

Many younger students, don't, like, worship that credentials.

有些人更喜欢压力较小的工作，或者追求更平衡的生活方式，而不是追逐高薪职位或更高学位；不参加考试的决定可能反映了他们对生活和职业更加多元化甚至个性化的态度，或者你也可以简单地考虑，把原本用于备考的时间——在中国攻读硕士学位通常需要三年——用来积累工作经验。

Some prefer lower stress jobs or just, more balanced lifestyle rather than chasing high paying positions or higher degrees, and the decision not to take the exam may reflect a more diversified or even personal approach to their life and career, or you could just simply consider using the time you would spend preparing for the exams and then maybe the time, mostly three years here in China pursuing a master's degree to accumulate work work experience.

你可以想一想，你究竟更想要哪种结果。

You can just think about it and which outcome do you actually want more.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以

So

在美国也是如此。

This is happening in The United States as well.

这是来自詹姆斯·G·马丁学术复兴中心的报告。

This is from the James G Martin Center for Academic Renewal.

我来读一下他们怎么说。

I'll I'll read to you what they said.

根据一份最近的报告——顺便说一下，这是2024年的报告——由研究生院理事会发布的，攻读研究生的学生人数正在稳步下降。

The number of students enrolling in graduate school is steadily declining according to a recent report, this is from 2024, by the way, by the Council of Graduate Schools.

尽管2010年至2020年间研究生入学人数增长了6%，这一增长甚至未受疫情影响，但从2022年开始，人数开始下降，2021年秋季至2022年秋季期间总共下降了4.7%。

Although grad school enrollment increased by 6% between 2010 and 2020, progress that remained unhindered by the pandemic, it began falling in 2022, and it dropped by a total of 4.7% between the fall season of school, 2021, and 2022.

在此期间，兼读制入学人数下降了近7%，全职入学人数下降了近4%，统计数据还有很多，但它们都讲述着同样的故事。

And during that period, part time enrollment fell by almost 7%, full time enrollment fell by almost 4%, and the statistics go on, but they they tell the same story.

我觉得这相当有趣，因为如果我们能把疫情与年轻美国学生选择读研之间画上联系，我们知道，疫情结束后，人们开始重新审视自己的工作。

So I found that to be rather intriguing because if we can draw a line between the pandemic and then going to graduate school for young American students or the choice to pursue a postgraduate degree, You know, we know that coming out of the pandemic, people started to question their work.

我喜欢混合办公。

I like hybrid work.

我喜欢减少在办公室工作的时间。

I I like the opportunity to maybe work fewer hours in the office.

也许学生们也开始质疑：我真的需要去读研究生吗？还是不需要？

Maybe students too started to question, do I actually need to go to graduate school or do I not?

还有另一个因素是投资回报率。

And there's another factor that is the return on investment.

这就是为什么他们开始提出这个问题。

Which is why they started to ask that question.

是的。

Yes.

这些数据也来自美国，我们知道美国的教育成本相对较高。

And these data are also from The United States, which we know that they have a relatively higher cost when it comes to education.

大约40%的美国硕士学位带来的是负财务回报，而持续高回报的领域包括计算机科学、工程、数学和护理。

And around 40% of US master's degree yield negative financial returns, and fields with constantly high returns include computer science, engineering, mathematics, and nursing.

这些是需要极高专业知识和技能的职业。

These are the kind of profession that requires really high level of professional knowledge and skills.

而MBA项目、艺术、人文和哲学等领域则有很高的负投资回报率可能性。

And fields like MBA programs, arts, humanities, and philosophy show high probability of negative ROI.

总体而言，60%的硕士学位具有正投资回报率，40%则没有。

And overall, sixty percent of master's degrees show positive ROI and 40% do not.

我认为这绝对是学生决定是否攻读研究生的一个重要因素，但它也与你最初选择攻读研究生的原因有关。

And I think it is definitely a major factor for students to choose to choose postgraduate study or not, but it also has something to do with why you go to postgraduate study at the very first place.

因为尽管我不认为这是主要比例或主要百分比，但仍有一些学生选择攻读研究生，是因为他们真正热爱自己的专业，并希望从事学术工作和研究。

Because even though I don't think it's the major ratio or the major percentage, but still, there are students who go into postgraduate study because they genuinely love the major and they wanted to do academic work, academic study.

他们希望将来成为一名科学家。

They wanna be some kind of scientist in the future.

他们希望用自己的一生，为这一特定学术领域的知识前沿再推进一点点。

They want to push the edge of human knowledge of this specific academic area just a little bit with their lifetime.

一生。

Lifetime.

这种情况也确实存在。

It is also there.

因此，除了分析学生的想法之外，拼图中另一个非常重要的部分是课程设计者在想什么？

So besides asking or analyzing what students are thinking, another very important part of the puzzle would be what are the curriculum designers designers are thinking?

他们为这些不同专业的研究生项目提供了什么样的课程？

What are they giving to the what are what are the curriculum for these postgraduate studies for these different majors?

我刚想补充一点，因为刚才突然想到了。

I was just gonna add a point that and because it just popped into my head.

你还记得几个月前我们在圆桌讨论时谈到的工程专业吗？当时说的是它们如何

Do you remember when we were talking on Roundtable a few months ago about was it engineering programs and how they were

与企业相结合。

being Integrated with companies.

记得。

Yes.

记得。

Yes.

案例研究。

Case studies.

你有解决问题的环节。

You had Problem solving.

对。

Right.

所以，你有来自现实世界的实际公司共同参与设计大学课程，为学生提供真实的实践学习体验。

So you had actual companies from the real world working together to design programs, university programs that would be real life learning experience for the students.

是的。

Yes.

这样可以帮助学生为步入社会工作做好准备。

So that it could prepare them to go out and work into the world.

也许，无论我们讨论的是中国、美国还是其他地方，如果我们看到研究生项目入学人数下降，这可能是问题的一部分，因为你必须假设并非所有项目都能为学生提供同样的优势。

Maybe, doesn't matter if we're talking about China or America or wherever, if we're seeing lower enrollment numbers for graduate programs, maybe that could be part of the problem because you'd have to assume that not every program would have that same benefit for the students.

我认为政策制定者正在努力解决这个问题，或提供更多选择。

I think policymakers are trying to fix that problem or to provide more choices.

也就是说，他们提供更贴近学术研究的研究生课程，同时也提供更贴近实际问题解决和职业发展的研究生项目。

That is, they offer the kind of postgraduate study that are more closely linked with academic research and study, and also the kind of postgraduate programs that are more linked with real life problem solving and real life career.

你指的是专业硕士学位，对吧？

Professional master's degree, that's what you're referring to, I think.

过去五年中，还出现了另一种规模上的变化。

So there is also another shift in scale in the past five years.

专业硕士生预计将占硕士生总招生人数的三分之二，同时专业博士项目也将大幅扩展。

Professional master's students are expected to make up about two thirds of total master's enrollment alongside a significant expansion of professional doctor programs.

在中国，硕士学位主要有两种类型：学术型硕士侧重理论研究，为学生攻读博士学位做准备；而专业型硕士则强调实践技能和职业培训。

And basically in China, there are two types of master's degree, academic, masters, focuses on theoretical research and prepares students for mostly PhD studies, while professional masters emphasizes practical skills and training for careers.

所以我认为你提到的结合真实案例研究和实践技能训练，主要是针对这些专业型硕士生的，他们在攻读硕士学位期间可以进行真正的动手实践。

So I think what you mentioned, integrating the real scene case study and practical skills practicing that is, I think, mostly for these professional master's degree students, and they can have real hands on activities when they're pursuing these master's degree.

嗯。

Mhmm.

人们正在选择这些不同的方向。

And people are choosing these different area.

正如我们前面提到的，有些学生非常清楚自己想要什么，对他们来说，这很容易。

Well, like we mentioned earlier, there are students who are quite clear about what they want and for them, it's quite easy.

相关信息都存在，你可以据此做出选择。

The things or the information are there, and you can just choose accordingly.

但对于那些还不太确定的学生来说，他们必须考虑许多不同的因素。

But for those students who are not that 100% sure just yet, they have to look at a lot of different factors.

例如，学费、攻读研究生所需投入的时间以及竞争程度。

For example, the pricing, the time you are going to have to put into the postgraduate study, and the competition.

有时学生甚至会根据某个专业的竞争激烈程度来选择专业。

Sometimes students would even choose their major based on how competitive that position might be.

正如我们所说，在理想世界中，我们知道自己的目标并全力以赴去追求，但没有人生活在理想世界中。

And like we said, in the perfect world, we know what we want and we pursue it with full of our effort, but no one's living in a perfect world.

必须做出妥协。

It has to be it has there has to be compromise.

必须考虑现实情况。

There has to be consideration about the reality.

那么，在你看来，如果我们认为推迟找工作是一个不好的理由，那么攻读研究生还有什么好的理由吗？

So in your opinion, do you think there are some good reasons for following postgraduate study if we believe that delaying seeking after a job is a bad reason?

事实上，思考或明确自己将走的道路，这是一生的课程。

In fact, you know, thinking about or figuring out what kind of path you're going through, it's kind of a lifetime course.

这也很对。

That's true too.

拥有。

Having.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你现在明白这一点很好。

Having It's good that you know that now.

你已经领先一步了。

You're ahead of the game.

你有

You have

你的，我还在

your I'm still

摸索中。

figuring out.

你已经读了双硕士了吧？

Double masters already, don't you?

尽管人们只是在思考不同的道路，并希望攻读硕士学位能帮助他们找到这条路径或进入某个职业，但人们仍然很难做出决定。

Even though people are just thinking about different paths and hoping that maybe pursuing a master's degree can help them to find out that path or getting into a career, it's still that it is really hard for people to just decide.

嗯。

Mhmm.

更不用说我们讨论过很多人，他们专业是这个领域，但进入就业市场后却进入了完全不同的行业。

And then, let alone we had a discussion on a lot of people, they majored in this subject, but when they're getting into job market, they just get into another total different area.

这是个很好的理由。

That is a good reason.

这正是我的理由。

That was my reason.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

当我读研究生本科时，我学的是哦，那是个很长的名字。

When I was in postgrad undergraduate, I was studying oh, that is a long name.

城市与乡村规划的研究、研究环境及管理。

Research research environment and the management of urban and rural planning.

那是我本科时的专业。

That was my major in undergraduate.

但在大一之后，我意识到自己并不适合这个领域，也不会享受在这个行业中的职业生涯。

But after my freshman year, I decided, wow, I'm not caught out for that and I will not enjoy a career in this area.

于是，我开始参加一些考试和竞赛，看看自己是否适合从事新闻工作。

And that's when I started to take part in some kind of examination, some kind of competitions to see maybe I can work in journalism.

在研究生阶段，我转行进入了国际新闻领域。

And in my postgraduate, I changed career to international journalism.

所以，对于那些觉得自己并不完全适合当前专业的你们，永远都不算太晚。

So for those of you who decide that you're not perfectly fit for the major you're currently studying, it's never, never too late.

所以我同意玉顺的观点。

So I agree with Yushun.

换职业是攻读研究生的一个很好的理由。

A career switching would be a good reason to pursue postgraduate study.

是的。

Yeah.

而且仅仅因为——让我重新说一下。

And and doing it just because well, let me let me rephrase.

让我这么说吧。

Let me say it like this.

我不认为这是件坏事。

I don't see this as a bad thing.

我觉得我们一直在谈论这件事，好像它是一种悲剧似的， Enrollment 数量下降了，但我完全不觉得这是坏事。

I feel like we've been kind of talking about this as if it's some kind of tragedy or something, the enrollment numbers are down, but I I don't see this as a bad thing at all.

只是现在的年轻人或许更倾向于进行更理性的职业规划，或追求个人目标，或投身于他们真正感兴趣的事情，而不是仅仅因为觉得这是该做的事而报名参加某个项目。

It's just that young people now are perhaps looking for more rational career planning or personal goals or pursuing things where they have genuine interest rather than simply enrolling in a program because they think it's the right thing to do.

这还有一个好处。

And there's another advantage to that.

对于那些真正报名的学生，我读到一些统计数据，你知道，你可以报名参加考试，但很多学生最终并不会出现。

For the students who actually enroll and I was reading statistics that, you know, you can register for the exam, and then a lot of students just won't end up showing up

这种情况也会发生。

to the That happens too.

参加考试。

To the exam.

对吧？

Right?

但现在我们看到缺考人数也在减少，这其实是一件好事，因为真正报名参加课程的人，正是你之前提到的那些人。

But now we're seeing decreased numbers of the no shows too, so that's that can be seen as a good thing because the people who are actually there enrolling in the programs are the people that you were talking about before.

你表述得相当戏剧化。

You phrased it quite dramatically.

你说的是，推动人类知识的边界之类的吧？

You said, what, push the outer boundaries of human knowledge or something something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

他们就是在做这些事。

That's what they're doing.

嗯。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我们继续吧。

Let's go

就这样。

with that.

但他们在那里，是因为他们想在那里。

But they're there they're there because they wanna be there.

而且他们知道自己想在那里。

And they know they wanna be there.

对。

Right.

那么，这对最终获得那些研究生学位的学生的质量意味着什么？

So what does that mean for the quality of the students that are gonna end up with those graduate degrees?

他们会非常优秀。

They're gonna be quite good.

是的。

Yes.

所以我们现在看到的是一个饱和的市场，公司可能会看到研究生学位，心想：嗯，也许我们先看看其他方面。

So we're seeing a flooded market now where companies might be looking at a a postgraduate degree and saying, oh, well, you know, maybe we'll look at other things first.

也许这种情况会逆转，公司会说：哦，好吧。

Maybe there will be a reversal of that where companies will say, oh, okay.

你已经完成了研究生学业。

You've completed your postgraduate degree.

这表明你对这件事真的充满热情。

That shows us you were really passionate about that.

是的。

Yes.

当我们谈论这些趋势或变化趋势时，并不是想说它们是好是坏。

And when when we talk about these kind of trends or shifting trends, we don't mean to say that it's good or bad.

这更多是关于理解或分析社会，它反映了这一代年轻人的价值观。

It's more about figuring out or trying to analyze society, what does it say about the young people in this generation of young people, what do they value.

同时，我们也想提醒你，如果你还没注意到这些趋势，关于未来我们正在关注什么。

And also, we also want to kind of give you a heads up if you didn't just notice these trends just yet about what we are looking at for future.

例如，我们已经注意到报名研究生考试的人数出现了一点轻微的下降，并不剧烈。

For example, we know we have already noticed the little, really not dramatic, just little decline numbers of people signing up for the postgraduate examination.

这对那些仍在大学最后一年、思考未来的学生意味着什么？

What does it say for those who are maybe still in their final year in university and thinking about their future?

我们能给学生提供一些什么建议吗？

Can we give them any tips for, like, for students?

对于学生来说，不要匆忙做决定，这是你需要时刻牢记的一点。

Well, for the students, don't rush into a decision, I think would be one good thing to keep in the forefront of your mind.

你也可以了解各种职业选择。

You can also check out various career options.

你可以考虑多种发展路径。

You can consider multiple pathways.

你可以考虑在思考未来的同时做一份兼职工作。

You can consider taking a part time job while you spend a little bit of time considering your future.

这在许多其他国家，尤其是加拿大，是很多人会做的事情。

That's something that a lot of people do in other countries, in Canada for sure.

你可以专注于实习，注重实践经验，如果你不确定未来十二个月想做什么，也可以找到充实时间的方法。

You can focus on internships, you can focus on hands on experience, you can find ways to fill your time if you're uncertain about what you want to do with your next twelve months.

你可以找到方法，让自己的时间变得相当高效。

You can find ways to be, I mean, quite productive with your time.

那对于大学来说呢？

How about for universities?

对于大学，我无法直接给出建议。

I I for universities, the thing is that I cannot, like, give out

我可以改进你的项目。

What I can Better your program.

是的。

Yeah.

让这些公司进来。

Get those companies in there.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

问题是，大学需要考虑质量与数量，也就是学校需要关注的方面。

The thing is quality and quantity is the thing that universities that they need to consider or think about schools.

他们可能面临压力，既要维持严格的标准或监管，又要满足多样化的学生需求。

They may face pressure to maintain, like, rigorous standards or supervision while accommodating diverse student needs.

对吧？

Right?

所以，适应两种不同的需求，以及多年来人数上的这种差异，正显示出整个市场的趋势，无论是在大学市场还是就业市场。

So adapting two different needs and maybe these kind of a like, the difference on numbers in several years is showing the trend of the whole market, no matter it's about the university market or the job market.

因此，机构需要平衡他们的招生成本和资源，包括宿舍、经济支持，甚至保持在整体学术环境中的竞争力。

So institutions, they they need to balance their enrollment costs and resources, including their dormitories, financial support, or even remain attractive on as the form of being competitive in the whole, like, scholar

让学生们愿意去那里读硕士。

Make students want to go there to get their masters.

是的。

Yes.

对于雇主来说，现在确实有很多不同的方式来吸纳人才。

And also for employers, yes, there are now a lot of different ways to collect talent.

我想我们在圆桌讨论中提到过，有时候大学毕业生想找一份理想的工作，这很难。

And we have, I think, mentioned this on roundtable that sometimes we say, university students wanted to find their perfect ideal job, and it's hard.

有时候我们说，雇主发现很难找到他们真正需要的人才，这种不匹配的问题，而如何解决这种不匹配，正是政府希望给出的终极答案。

Sometimes we say, oh, employers find that it's hard to get the talent they really want, and the mismatch, and how to fix the mismatch would be the ultimate answer the government wanted to give.

而且，也许雇主在这方面也可以再努力一点。

And also, maybe I think employers can try a bit harder in that regard as well.

学生们会很喜欢这样。

Students would love that.

学生们会很喜欢这样。

Students would love that.

最终，我认为教育是为了丰富你的生活。

And ultimately, I think education is for you to enrich your life.

它与未来的职业选择有关，但也关乎你是否希望以更深刻、另一种方式来看待世界。

It has something to do with future career choices, but it's also about whether or not you wanna see the world from a deeper perspective, from a deeper another way.

我认为每个人都应该自己做出这个决定，并为你们所做的每一个决定鼓掌。

And I think it's for each and every individual to make that decision, and applaud for all of the decisions that you make.