我们需要谈谈这些树

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌讨论。

This is roundtable.

春天来了，打喷嚏也来了。

Spring arrives and so does the sneezing.

人人都知道这一点。

Everybody knows it.

对吧？

Right?

花粉季似乎每年都在加剧，但这不仅仅是大自然的正常现象。

Pollen season hits harder, it seems, every single year, but it's not just nature doing its thing.

我们街道两旁的树木确实可能是问题所在。

The trees lining our streets could indeed be the problem.

我们将探讨城市规划如何将新鲜空气变成季节性危害，以及城市是否真的能在不让我们所有人痛苦的情况下实现真正的绿化。

We'll look at how urban planning turned fresh air into a seasonal hazard and whether cities can ever really go green without making all of us miserable.

我们正在北京的演播室为您现场直播。

We're live from our studios in Beijing.

这里是圆桌讨论。

This is Roundtable.

我是史蒂夫。

I'm Steve.

非常感谢您今天与我们同在。

Thank you very much for being with us today.

本节目我将与菲菲和玉山一起主持。

And for the show, I'm with Fei Fei and Yushan.

每年春天，每年春天，当世界开始绽放时，花粉也会悄然——或者说并不那么悄然地弥漫在空气中，把散步这样的简单乐趣变成一场严峻的生存挑战。

First up, every spring, every every spring, just as the world starts to bloom, pollen also quietly, not so quietly takes over the air, turning simple joys like taking a walk outside into a full on survival challenge.

突然间，每个人都开始打喷嚏或揉眼睛，疑惑为什么新鲜空气感觉一点也不新鲜。

Suddenly, everyone seems to be sneezing or rubbing their eyes and wondering why fresh air feels anything but fresh.

但这些花粉仅仅是春天的自然副产品吗？还是我们无意中在城市中制造出来的问题？

But is all this pollen just a natural side effect of spring something that maybe we can do nothing about or something we've unintentionally engineered into our cities?

从我们种植的树木到城市空间的规划方式，这些纸巾和抗过敏药物背后隐藏着一个更大的故事。

From the trees we plant to the way our urban spaces are planned, there's a bigger story hiding behind all those tissues and allergy meds.

现在，人们开始提出疑问：我们能否拥有一个既绿色又宜居的城市？

And now people are starting to ask, hey, can we have a city that's green and comfortable to live in?

为什么如此自然的东西却带来了如此多的麻烦？

Why does something so natural cause so much trouble?

Fei Fei 和 Yushan，下午好。

Fei Fei and Yushan, good afternoon to you.

最近在办公室里，我听到最多的声音就是‘阿嚏’。

The number one sound that I'm hearing in the office these days is a choo.

是的。

Yeah.

那不是很可爱吗？

Is that all that cute?

别在意。

Don't mind.

这确实是过敏季节。

It is allergy season for sure.

对许多人来说，这不仅仅是打喷嚏的问题。

And for many people, that's not only about sneezing.

它还涉及全副武装，戴上护目镜，以及某种类似鼻罩的设备来保护鼻子。

It's also about all geared up to the goggles to a somewhat snore like equipment that protects your nose.

是的。

Yeah.

或者保护脖子、双手，尽可能遮盖住皮肤。

Or your neck, your hands, just covering as much skin as possible.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

因为很多人，如果你有这种症状，比如打喷嚏、流鼻涕、眼睛干痒，这都是花粉引起的。

Because many people, you know, hands up, if you have this kind of symptoms like sneaking sneezing, runny noses, dry and itchy eyes, and that's all caused by pollen.

我现在刚查了北京的天气应用，根据他们的预报，北京目前的花粉过敏等级已达到最高级别，处于高度警戒状态。

And right now, I just checked on the Beijing's weather app that according to their forecast and today, in the city of Beijing, they put Beijing when it comes to pollen allergy, on a very high alert, the highest level right now.

这种情况将持续到本月底，大约再持续一周。

So that will continue for basically another week till the end of this month.

我以为还没到最糟糕的时候，因为我记得去年春天。

I thought we hadn't gotten to the worst part yet because I remember last spring.

去年春天是我在北京度过的第一个春天，突然间开始下雪，或者至少我以为是下雪了，但其实不是。

Last spring was my first spring in Beijing, and all of a sudden, it started to snow, or at least I thought it was snowing, but it wasn't.

那是从树上飞出来的无数细小种子。

It was all these little seedlings from trees flying through the air.

我说我以为下雪了，是因为这些种子在空中飞舞的数量确实多到让人误以为是下雪。

And when I say I thought it was snowing, that's legit how many of these seedlings are flying through the air.

看起来就像暴风雪一样。

It looks like a blizzard.

是的。

Yeah.

但今年我们还没到那个程度，还是说今年没有预测到，去年只是个例外？

But we haven't gotten there yet this year, or is that not predicted this year and last year was an outlier, I wonder?

去年，我认为这几乎是第一次，可能因为社交媒体的放大效应，我们开始把这种花粉看作某种意义上的沙尘暴。

For last year, I think it's almost the first time, maybe because of the amplifying effect of the social media that we start to seeing this pollen almost like a sandstorm on some level.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你会看到黄色的尘埃飞舞在空中，尤其是当风吹来，或者你轻轻敲一下树，花粉就会在你面前突然爆开。

That you have this yellow dust flying into the air, and especially if a wind comes by or you you you that you tap on a tree and it's just just exploded in front of your face.

这种所谓的‘下雪’场景，每年春天在北京都会发生。

And that snowfall quote unquote snowfall scene kind of happened like every spring here in Beijing.

这是一幅非常典型的景象，有时早一些，有时晚一些。

That's a very typical view, sometimes earlier, sometimes later.

去年，我觉得春天来得比平时早了一些。

And last year, I believe the spring hits a bit earlier than usual.

通常来说，是北京的雌性柏树在释放这些‘雪花’，而雄性树木则有更多花粉囊，花粉就是从那里释放出来的。

And that it's usually the female trees, the female cypress trees in Beijing that's spreading out all the snows while the male trees have more of a pollen sac where the pollen are released.

今年这个时候，这种花粉对人的皮肤和鼻子来说是一种不同的刺激物。

That's the kind of a different irritant to human skin and and nose at this point of of this year.

据说，导致这些过敏的主要元凶是风媒植物，特别是你刚才提到的玉山地区的柏科植物，比如侧柏和杜松。

So the primary culprits behind these allergies, they say, are wind pollinated plants, particularly those in what you just mentioned, Yushan, the cypress family, such as the Chinese cypress and the juniper.

这些植物与虫媒花不同。

These are different from insect pollinated flowers.

这些风媒植物会产生大量细小、轻盈且干燥的花粉颗粒，它们会飘浮在空气中，也容易悬浮在空气中。

These wind pollinated varieties, they produce these little small, light, and dry pollen grains, and they fly through the air, and they're easily suspended in the air too.

它们几乎就像是悬在那儿一样。

It's almost it's almost like they're hanging there.

因为这就是它们传播的方式。

Because that's how they spread.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

风媒传粉。

Wind pollinated.

这就是它们被称为风媒传粉的原因。

That's why they are called wind pollinated.

而且考虑到北京的天气非常干燥。

And also considering Beijing's weather is really, really dry.

例如，去年2025年，我们观察到花粉量似乎增加的一个原因，是因为如果你还记得2024年北京根本没下过雪。

And for example, for last year in the year 2025, one of the reasons what that we are seeing, like, seems like we have an increasing amount of Poland is also because if you still remember in the year of 2024, Beijing didn't snow at all.

所以空气和天气极其干燥，使得花粉更容易悬浮在空气中。

So the air the weather is really, really extremely dry and making this Poland more easily to be suspended in the middle of the air.

我之前没意识到这一点。

I didn't realize that.

所以前一年冬天的情况会影响花粉的严重程度。

So what happens in the winter before can have an influence on how bad the pollen is.

我们到目前为止谈到了北京，但这不只是北京的问题，因为花粉过敏现象在全国几乎每个地方都引起了广泛关注。

We mentioned Beijing so far, but it's not just Beijing because the issue of pollen allergies has really resonated with people across almost the entire country.

没错。

True.

如果你上网看看，如今尤其是在社交媒体平台上，关于花粉过敏的讨论每天都在增加。

If you look online, nowadays, discussions about pollen allergies on especially on social media platforms, they're growing every day.

似乎每个人都在参与其中，要么加入讨论，要么分享自己经历的症状，新的话题不断涌现。

Everybody seems to be taking part of it, either joining the discussion or sharing what kind of symptoms they're experiencing with new topics constantly emerging.

所以在社交媒体平台小红书上，与花粉过敏相关的内容浏览量已经超过了500万次。

So on social media platform, Xiaohongshu, for example, contents related to pollen allergies has already surpassed 5,000,000 views.

而在另一个社交媒体平台微博上，话题#全国花粉预报指南#的浏览量已超过300万次。

While on Weibo, another social media platform, the hashtag nationalpolandforecastguide has exceeded 3,000,000 views.

真有趣。

Interesting.

我不知道还有全国范围的花粉预报指南。

I didn't know there's a forecast guide on a national scale.

哦，那些严重过敏的人。

Oh, people with serious Yeah.

这让我觉得你其实并没有什么严重的过敏问题。

That leads me to believe that you don't really suffer from any serious allergies.

确实没有。

Not really.

因为你根本不会关注花粉预报。

Because you don't pay attention to the to the forecast.

对吧？

Right?

还没到那个程度。

Not to that extent.

我也是。

Same here.

没错。

Right.

我也是。

Same here.

我不敲木头，但迄今为止我从未有过严重的过敏，所以这个季节对我来说并不那么难受，尤其是当我把自己和那些有严重过敏的人相比时。

I don't Knocking on wood, I don't have any serious allergies yet in my life, so this time of year is not so uncomfortable for me, especially when I compare myself to those with allergies, serious allergies.

我的意思是，这个季节对某些人来说可能非常痛苦。

I mean, this time of year can be torturous for for some people.

这可能会非常、非常严重，那些人肯定每五分钟就查看一次天气预报。

It can be really, really serious, and those people would be the ones that are following that forecast every every five minutes, I'm sure.

但这里有个有趣的问题想问你，Fei Fei。

But here's a interesting question for you, Fei Fei.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，我和史蒂夫都说，我们其实并不会出现鼻塞、流鼻涕、眼睛痒或呼吸问题这类过敏反应。

For example, now that me and Steve, we say we don't really experience any of these allergic reactions such as a stuffed nose, runny nose, or itchy eyes, or respiratory issues.

那这是否意味着我们可以彻底摆脱这些问题和过敏了？

Does that mean that we can skip these issues and this allergy once and for all?

是的。

Yeah.

情况并非如此。

That's not the case.

实际上，根据许多健康专家的说法，即使你已经成年，也可能开始出现这类过敏症状。

Actually, well, according to a lot of health experts, these kind of allergy like allergy symptoms can start to develop even though you were in your adulthood.

这意味着，这些免疫系统中的炎症反应可能会逐年累积。

Meaning, they're like these inflammatory reactions in your immune system that they can build up every year.

如果你长期处于这种环境中，也许有一天，这些反应会达到触发过敏的水平。

And if you stay in this kind of environment that maybe someday in the future, they will reach to a level of triggering that allergy for you.

所以，突然某一年你开始出现鼻痒、流鼻涕或眼睛发痒，你就可能开始遭受这些过敏的困扰。

So all of a sudden, if one year you start to have itchy nose or runny nose or itchy eyes, you would be, you know, start to have to suffer from these allergies.

哮喘也是如此，我有一些朋友和家人在长期暴露于空气污染后才开始患上哮喘。

So and also same with asthma as well that I have friends and family members that start developing asthma after exposed to air pollution.

是的。

Yep.

所以，你永远无法预料。

So, you know, you never know.

你永远无法预料。

You never know.

你无论如何都需要保护好自己。

You you need to protect yourself even regardless.

是的。

Yeah.

鼻部问题、眼部问题、呼吸系统问题。

Nasal issues, eye issues, respiratory issues.

但让我们谈谈树木。

But let's talk about the trees.

北京和许多其他城市，顺便说一句，这并不是中国独有的问题。

Beijing and and many other cities, and by the way, this is not a Chinese issue.

世界上有很多城市都在应对这种花粉问题。

There are plenty of cities around the world that are dealing with this type of pollen problem.

我稍后会谈谈美国佐治亚州的亚特兰大。

I'm gonna talk about Atlanta, Georgia in The United States a little bit later on.

但说到北京和这些树，尤其是柏树，它们才是罪魁祸首。

But talking about Beijing and the trees, the cypress ones, those are the those are the guilty parties.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

那为什么还要种植呢？

So why plant?

我想很多人都会问这个问题。

And I think a lot of people ask this question.

对吧？

Right?

首先，我想说一点。

At first, I wanna say this.

如果你从未去过北京，那它是我一生中见过的最绿的城市之一。

If you've never been to Beijing, it is one of the greenest cities I have ever been to in my entire life.

我感觉这座城市仿佛建在一片森林里。

I feel like the city was built in a forest sometimes.

到处都是树。

There are trees everywhere.

大街小巷、后街小路，你想到的地方，都有树。

Big streets, small streets, back streets, you name it, there are trees there.

有的高大，有的矮小，有些看起来已经在这里生长了几百年，我敢肯定它们确实如此。

Some big, some small, some look like they've been here for hundreds and hundreds of years, and I'm sure they probably have.

没错。

True.

但既然我们现在知道这些柏树会造成如此严重的问题，为什么还要种这么多呢？

But why plant so many of these cypress trees if we now know these cause such a huge problem?

实际上，这得追溯到上世纪八九十年代，当时北京正推行大规模的绿化工程，但经济资源十分有限。

Well, this actually has to be traced back in the days, back in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties when Beijing were really facing this massive greening campaign but with limited economic resources.

所以当时，城市规划的优先事项确实有所不同。

So back then, it's really a differentiation in priorities regarding city planning.

当时的规划者希望种植柏树、杨树和柳树，因为这些树成本低廉，而且非常耐受北方干燥的土壤和气候。

So the planners, they want trees like the cypress, the poplar, and willow because they were affordable and also really resilient to the northern dryness in the soil in our climate.

所以，你提到过，史蒂夫，我们正在转向绿色。

So, yeah, you mentioned, Steve, that green we're turning.

自几十年前开始，我们种植了这些树木，使北京的绿化覆盖率从大约20%迅速提升到近50%。

Ever since decades ago, we started planting all of these trees, which rapidly increased the green knees greenness, green coverage in Beijing from about 20% to nearly 50%.

所以，按照当时的优先目标，这个做法是有效的。

So that worked back then according to the priority back then.

中国柏树被誉为城市环境中的超级战士。

The Chinese cypress is described as a super warrior for urban Exactly.

适用于城市环境。

For urban environments.

而且，它们全年常绿，没错。

And also, they stay green throughout the year Right.

无论冬天还是夏天。

Regardless winter or or summers.

而且，这种柏树是北京地区的本土物种，这也是其中一个原因。

And also, one of the reason is that this kind of cypress is a native species to the Beijing area.

所以

So

因此，当他们考虑绿化城市空间时，自然会把这种树列入清单。

it's natural that they pick this type of tree on their list when when they are thinking about greening the urban space.

柏树也是，是的。

The cypress too has yeah.

它原产于北京，并且有着悠久的历史。

It's native to Beijing, and it has a long history.

这也具有文化层面的意义。

There's a cultural aspect to this too.

对吧？

Right?

因为它代表了某些东西。

Because it represents certain things.

是的。

Yes.

非常有趣。

Really interesting.

如果你查看晚清时期北京的老照片，在北京的街巷中，你其实看不到很多树木。

If you look into old pictures of Beijing from late Qing dynasty, in the playing of Beijing, you don't really see a lot of trees.

而这些树木大多集中在皇宫、后院以及如紫禁城公园这样的公园里。

And all of these trees, they gather in imperial court, backyards, and parks such as the Forbidden Cities Park.

还有天坛。

And then there is the Temple Of Heaven.

如果你走进天坛，到处都是柏树，因为它们象征着长寿与永恒，这在清代被深深视为吉祥的征兆，是皇室的好运象征。

If you if you take a walk into temple Of heaven, there are just cypress trees all over the place because they bear this symbol of longevity and eternity and that was deeply believed back in the Qing dynasty as a good fortune, as a good sign for the imperial court.

所以当你走过一棵形态扭曲、粗壮古老的树时，它们每棵都有一个名牌。

So you walk past a visually twisted old thick tree and they they they each have a name tag.

他们标注了这些树的年龄，比如一棵有900年历史的树。

They write how many hundreds of years old they are bypass a 900 year old tree.

而较年轻的树，所谓的年轻树，也有100年、200年，是的。

And the younger ones, quote unquote, younger ones are 100, 200 Yes.

所以早在很久以前，这种单独种植树木的理念就已经存在了，至少在北京是这样，再加上几十年前的绿化运动。

So that's when this whole idea of planting separate trees already existed like all these long time ago, at least for the case of here in Beijing and also combining with the greening campaigns a few decades ago.

我们有这么多柏树以及这些会引发花粉的树木，这其实是文化、社会以及城市规划等多重因素共同作用的结果。

That's really a combination of cultural, societal, and and and also, like, urban planning reasons that we have so many cypress trees and these trees that that cause pollens.

天坛、紫禁城和颐和园里共有超过6000棵百年以上的古柏树。

The Temple Of Heaven, the Forbidden City, and the Summer Palace contain over 6,000 ancient cypress trees that are more than 100 years old.

感谢中国科学传播文章提供的这一信息。

Thank you to the China Science Communication article for that information.

是的。

Yeah.

特别是，我去过这三个地方，但我在天坛感受到最明显，因为公园里有一条很长的步道，是的。

Especially, I've been to all three, but the Temple Of Heaven is where I noticed the most because there's a long walk in the park Yeah.

在你真正到达天坛之前，那景色简直美极了。

Before you actually get to the Temple Of Heaven, And it's just I mean, it's beautiful.

对吧？

Right?

真的太美了。

It's just so beautiful.

那里有非常多古老的树木。

There's so many old trees there.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，2025年在网上流传的那段视频，就是拍到尘土飞扬的场景，正是在天坛拍摄的。

And also, that's the video in the year of 2025 that's got circulated online where they start to notice this dust flying in That's the exactly where it's filmed at the Temple Of Heaven.

如果你仔细看清朝时期的照片，会发现每个人几乎都要打喷嚏了。

If you look closely at the photos from the Qing dynasty, you can see everyone is just about to sneeze.

柏树并不是唯一的罪魁祸首。

The cypress is not the only culprit here.

那里还有其他树，对吧？但我认为最受关注的是这一种。

The there are other trees too, right, around, but I think that's the one that tends to get the the most attention.

还有大量种植的杨树、柳树，嗯。

There's also poplar trees that are planted a lot, willow trees Mhmm.

这一切都是出于经济原因。

And it was all done for economic reasons.

玉山，我想你提到过。

Yushan, I think you mentioned it.

对吧？

Right?

这些树耐寒、便宜，让北京的绿化覆盖率从20%迅速提升到近50%，这真的非常了不起。

They were they were hardy, they were affordable, and it allowed the city Beijing to rapidly increase its green coverage from 20 to nearly 50%, which is really, really impressive.

话虽如此，现在城市规划中，关于城市设计的方面，面对大家对过敏的抱怨，又是如何应对的呢？

Now that being said, what aspects of, you know, the planning that's going on currently, talking about the design of the city, how are how is it being addressed now that everyone's complaining about their allergies?

我认为首先，完全砍掉这些树是不现实的。

Well, I think first of all is that it's not really possible to cut them out

在

at the

目前阶段，你知道，因为那样做成本太高。

current stage, you know, because it would be costly.

而且当我们谈论古树时，也不能砍伐古树。

And also when we're talking about the ancient trees, we can't also cut down ancient trees.

它们已经在那里存在了几百年。

It's been there for hundreds and hundreds of years.

但我们可以采取的替代方法，例如在北京，他们使用了各种方法来拦截花粉，防止其飘散到空气中。

But what we can do instead, for example, in the city of Beijing, they have, like, different methods to sort of tamper temp trap this pollens from exposing them to the air.

例如，北京非常干燥，这是花粉悬浮在空气中的原因之一。

For example, we are talking about Beijing is really dry, and that's one of the reasons this pollen got suspended in the air.

市政府正试图通过给树木浇水、清洁街道来增加空气中的湿度。

And what the city government is trying to do is increasing that moisture level in the air by bringing water to the tree, by cleaning the streets.

你可以看到北京的清洁车一直在为树木喷水，这也有助于减少空气中的花粉。

You can see that the sort of trucks cleaning those trees all the time in Beijing, and that's also helping with, you know, reducing the poll pollen in the air.

是的。

Yeah.

你可能会看到那些卡车在晚上11点或10点左右出现，有时甚至更晚，直接到半夜。

You'll see the trucks maybe around, I don't know, 11PM or 10PM, maybe a little bit and sometimes even later, actually, into the middle of the night.

它们会来回巡逻，车上装有清扫设备，同时还会喷水。

They go around, and they've got their sweeper things on the attached to the truck, and they spray water too.

这是为了清除街道上的灰尘，试图稍微缓解这个问题。

And that's to get rid of the dust, on the streets to try to alleviate the problem a little bit.

对。

Yeah.

在政策制定方面，最近通过的《生态环境法》也规定，城乡绿化应因地制宜，科学选择树种和植物，并加强监测与评估，以满足健康、安全和宜居的需求。

And on the policy making maker's side, there's also provision provision in the recently adopted code, namely the ecological and environmental code, which states that urban and rural greening should be adapted to local conditions with scientifically selected tree and plant species along with strengthened monitoring and evaluation in order to meet the needs of health, safety, and livability.

这意味着，如今我们的重点已从如何让城市看起来更绿，转向如何让这里每个人少受些苦。

Meaning that nowadays, our priority shifts from how do we make the city look more green to the part that how do we make everybody in here suffer less Yeah.

从空气角度。

From the air.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，优先级从‘我们需要尽快让城市尽可能绿’，转变为……

So it it that priority shifts from, you know, we need to make the city as green as fast as possible Mhmm.

因为我们现在已经达到了那个水平。

To because we've reached to that level at this point.

但现在我们正在考虑更换一些树木，改种其他品种。

But now we are thinking about changing exchange on replacing some of the trees to other varieties.

而且在某种程度上，这样看起来也更美观。

And also, that's more prettier on some level to look at.

有一位我印象中专攻心血管医学的医生提到，许多患者在春秋季节出现过敏症状时会来医院就诊，在她看来，是秋天吗？

There was a comment from, I believe, a doctor who specializes in cardiovascular medicine and she said that many patients with allergy symptoms during spring and autumn visit the hospital and in her view is it autumn?

我没想到秋天对空气影响这么大，说实话，我对这些不太了解，因为这对我影响不大。

I didn't realize autumn was bad for see, again, I don't know much because this doesn't really affect me too much.

我应该再敲敲木头。

I should knock on wood again.

这对我影响不大，所以我没意识到秋天也是过敏高发期。

It doesn't affect me too much, so I wasn't aware that autumn was also a time for for allergies.

近年来，是的。

In recent years, yes.

尤其是在北方地区，比如蒙古。

Especially in northern also in northern regions like in Mongolia.

几年前曾发生过一次非常著名的过敏爆发事件。

There used to be a very famous allergy sort of outbreak a few years back.

这也是由于当年为绿化沙漠而种植的另一种树木引起的。

That's also caused by another type of species of trees greening the deserts back in the days.

所以你可以看到，这个问题在中国正逐渐加剧和扩大。

So you can see the problem is sort of increasing and expanding here in China.

这就是为什么那位医生说，尽管过去在沙漠治理和植树方面采取了各种措施

And that's why I think that doctor said that even the even though the past approaches to desert control and tree planting

沿着路边的那些

The the ones along the side of

马路。

the road.

是的。

Yes.

有时它们过去并没有得到很好的规划。

Sometimes they are not really that well planned in the past.

另一个原因是，过去我们的知识有限，再加上各种资源的限制，比如资金资源

Also, one of the reasons is because of the limitation of knowledge that we had in the past, and then also because of all different kind of resources, for example, of financial resources

我们拥有的。

we have.

这是北京的另一个美妙之处。

That's another beautiful thing about Beijing.

我想我之前没有提到过这个细节。

I guess I didn't give this detail before.

当我提到有很多树时，也许你会因此以为，哦，有很多公园，这些树都长在公园里。

When I said there are a lot of trees, maybe that would lead you to believe that, oh, there are a lot of parks and those trees must be in the parks.

确实如此，但在北京的主要街道和小巷，甚至那些更小的街道上，也都种满了树木。

And, yes, that is true, but for the major streets and the side streets as well, the smaller streets in Beijing, trees line those streets.

到了晚上，大马路上特别美，因为街灯亮起，灯光透过树叶洒落下来，有时树干底部还会装有向上照射的灯，是的。

And it's so pretty at night on big streets because the street lights are on and the lights kind of shine through the leaves of the trees and sometimes they'll have lights at the or lamps at the bottom Yeah.

树干底部向上照射的灯光，营造出一种非常美丽的景象。

At trunk of the tree that shine upward and it's just a really pretty achoo scene.

对一些人来说。

For some people.

这也会带来一些不同的影响，我。

That has different side effects as well, I What

我从这里看到的，也是一种心态的转变，因为从小到大，我总是听我妈说，啊，春天又来了。

I see from this is like a a transitioning of mindset too because for years, the the way I grew up, I get used to hearing my mom saying all the time that, oh, it's springtime again.

我的鼻子开始发痒。

My nose is itchy.

我最好吃这片药。

I I'd better take this pill.

我最好吃那种缓解症状的药。

I'd better take that squeezing in kind of medicine.

在过去一二十年里，人们认为这是身体对环境的反应。

In the in the old days, in the in the past one to two decades, people see it as, oh, it's my body's reaction towards the environment.

但现在我们正积极努力让环境更包容、更适合人类。

But now we are actively trying to make the environment more tolerant and more suitable for people.

所以这不是你的身体无法适应。

So it's not really your body not adjusting to it.

是的。

Yeah.

而是很多人正经历着和你类似的问题。

It's that a lot of people are having similar issues as you are.

确实如此，这也是为什么它在社交媒体上成了一个热门话题。

It's true, and it's that's why it's become such a hot issue on social media as well.

所以现在城市正通过不同的城市规划方式来解决这个问题，其中提到的一个新规则是关于绿地的新标准。

So now cities are are trying to fix this this problem through different styles of urban planning, and one of the things that they mentioned is that there's kind of a new a new rule book for green space.

是的。

Yes.

因为在城市规划中，他们总是有一份清单，列出推荐在城市中种植的植物种类。

Because when it comes to urban planning, they always have this sort of a catalog about what kind of plants are recommended to be planted in the cities.

嗯。

Mhmm.

过去，柏树当然在清单上。

In the past, of course, cypress are on the list.

而现在，我认为他们正在建议控制使用柏树这类高致敏性花粉。

And now, I think they've sort of are recommending controlling the use of these kind of highly allergenic pollens like cypress.

我听说有一位专家提到，他们正在考虑用另一种开花树种——珍珠绣线菊来替代柏树。

And I think there I heard one expert talking about they're thinking replacing cypress with another type of flowery tree called pearl bush that can be one of the replacement.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此我们可以看到，未来当我们谈论北京的绿化、种植新树或替换老旧病树时，柏树可能不会再被列入选项之一。

So we can see that maybe in the future when we are talking about greening Beijing, planting new trees or replacing old or sick ones, cypress won't be on one of the options anymore.

此外，我认为科学家们也在监测和追踪，并对城市中柏树和柳树的数量进行了人口普查。

And also, are I think the scientists are also monitoring and tracking and basically have a population survey about how many of these cypress or willow trees that we have in the city.

这是我们讨论控制过敏或帮助人们缓解过敏时首先需要考虑的首要问题。

That's the number one issue that we need to think about when we're talking about control these allergies or helping people mitigating these allergies in the first place.

我认为他们发现，仅在北京五环路以内——也就是城市的主要市中心区域——就有16.8万棵柏树。

And I think they found that at least within Beijing's 5th Ring Road, which is basically the major downtown area of the city, we have 168,000 of cypresses.

仅在那个区域里

Just in that area of

为了逃离。

to escape.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yes.

所以这几乎就像一张花粉地图，是的。

So that's almost like a that's almost like a pollen map Yeah.

那么，对于城市规划者来说，如果他们能清楚哪些树木最容易引发过敏，就可以制定计划，比如在受影响最严重的区域增加清洁队伍，这确实是一种应对措施。

Then, isn't it, for the city planners because if they are aware of which trees are causing the most damage allergy wise, then they can come up with a plan to try to send out more cleaning crews, think, is is one of the measures in those areas that are that are most highly affected.

至于物理控制方面，实际上从去年年底开始，人们就开始采取行动，试图更好地控制花粉问题。

And when it comes or rather physical control, actually, people start to act on how to better control it since at the end of last year.

为了减少花粉来源，北京早在2025年冬季就开始在海淀区等北部地区实施物理控制措施，根据树木的生长情况，提前修剪雄性圆柏的枝条。

So that's to in order to reduce Poland as at the resource, Beijing actually started these physical control measures early as far back as in winter twenty twenty five in districts such as Haidian in Northern Beijing and which began already begun pruning male juniper branches based on how the trees grow.

这种做法也应用于那些树木密集的主要公园中。

So what they do is this is also practiced in in the major parks where these trees are gathered.

例如，在地坛公园，工作人员使用升降设备修剪那些花粉密集、发黄的枝条，同时用高压水枪冲洗树冠，防止花粉大量飘落至地面。

For example, the Ditan Park where the staff use lifts to trim the yellowing, pollen heavy branches, and also they use high pressure water spray to wash down the tree so that the pollen can't kinds of just Falls down to the ground too.

正如地坛公园的副主管杨先生所解释的，即使在同一棵树上，花粉的成熟时间也不尽相同。

So as the deputy director of the Ditan Park says, Louis Yang, this person explained, even on the same tree, the pollen matures at different times.

因此，在过敏季节，他们每天都要对树木进行冲洗。

So for them, during allergy season, washing the tree, they call it, has to be done every day.

所以这些公园最近几年一直在积极采取措施，从源头上清除致敏物质。

So that's something that the parks are actively engaged into these days, especially in recent years, that they cut the the irritants from its source.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

你需要更多人来做这件事。

You need more people to do that.

他们也确实增加了人力来做这项工作。

And they have more people to do it as well.

专家称这种方法为人力密集战术。

Experts call them human wave tactics.

还有派清洁人员去给树木浇水。

There's also sending cleaners out, bringing water to the tree.

我认为他们每天至少需要给树木喷水三到五次，这可能会非常昂贵。

I think they need to spray the waters onto the trees at least three to five times a day and that can be very costly.

我们首先需要大量的水。

We need a lot of water in first place.

是的。

Yeah.

而且还需要支付清洁工来做这项工作。

And also, need to pay these cleaners to do that job.

因此，科学家们也在研究基于生物的控制剂，可以将其混入水中，从而在抑制花粉方面比单纯用水更有效。

And so that's why scientists are also working at bio based sort of a control agents that can be mixed into the water so that they can be more effective when it comes to, you know, calming this pollen down than just water.

据说，这种控制剂使花粉沉降到地面的效果比用水高出约20倍。

It's said to be about 20 times more effective at making the pollen drops to the ground compared with water.

而且，你每天只需喷洒一次这种药剂，而不是三到五次。

And also, you only need to spray the agent once a day instead of five or or three or five times.

对。

Yeah.

但我的意思是，仅在五环路区域内，就要对16.8万棵树每天喷洒一次。

But I mean, once a day for a 168,000 trees only within the 5th Ring Road area.

这仍然

That's still

不是整个城市。

Not the entire city.

是的。

Yeah.

这工作量很大。

It's a lot it's a lot of work.

需要大量人力。

It's a lot of manpower.

他们利用的另一项措施被称为联合防御团队，这有助于不同政府部门和园林部门之间的更好沟通。

Another thing that they're using to their advantage, they call it a joint defense team, and this allows for better communication between different government branches and the parks departments.

现在，他们正共同开展所谓的联合防御团队或防控机制。

Now they're working together on, again, what they call the joint defense team or control mechanism.

他们利用天气、卫生以及城市管理部门。

They use weather, they use health, and they use city management departments as well.

所以他们的策略是，让城市将花粉视为类似天气事件一样来处理，比如一场风暴即将来临。

So their strategy there is it allows the city to treat pollen almost like it's a weather event, like a storm is coming, for example.

这是一种可以预测并能实时管理的现象。

Something that can be forecasted and something that can be managed in in real time.

这确实给公园游客带来了巨大好处，比如我们，现在可以通过小程序或“北京天气”等应用软件查看花粉预测，实时了解如果决定去北京某个公园，花粉浓度有多高。

And it really benefits park visitors like us because we can now check the pollen prediction in a way on mini programs or on weather Beijing, like these apps and softwares to really get hourly updates on just how high is the pollen level if I decide to go out and visit a certain park area in Beijing.

因此，这在春季尤其重要，那时人们会全家外出，我们只是希望多一点安全保障。

So really it it it creates such a difference for visitors of parks especially during this spring time when people go out as families and we just want to stay safe a little bit more.

是的。

Yeah.

现在你可以查看小程序了。

So now you can check mini programs.

对吧？

Right?

在手机上，你可以获取关于城市内花粉情况的更新，因为再次强调，我们今天是把这个问题当作一个轻度问题来处理的。

On your phone, you can get updates there about what's going on pollen wise within the city because again, you know, we're we're kind of treating this like a light issue here today.

但对于很多人来说，这一年中的这个时候非常糟糕。

But for many, many people, this is a really terrible, terrible time of year.

是的。

Yeah.

特别是那些过敏症状严重的人，有了这种预报服务后，

So for especially those suffering from severe symptoms from allergies, maybe they they can when they have this kind of forecasting services.

他们就能决定什么时候外出最合适，

They're able to decide when is the best time to go out

对。

Yeah.

什么时候最好待在室内，避免外出，或者戴上装备、护目镜、口罩和围巾，避开当前的花粉季节。

And experience springs and when is the best to stay indoors and avoid going out or put on your gears, put on your goggles, your masks, your scarves, and avoid exposing yourself to this pollen season at the moment.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为科学家说，花粉浓度最高的时段通常是上午10点到下午5点。

And I think scientists said most of the time, the peak hours for pollen is between eight between 10AM to 5PM.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得去年还忍不住笑，因为有时候你会看到骑滑板车的人，尽管外面天气很暖和，他们却戴着头盔。

I remember last year kind of giggling because you see people on scooters sometimes, and they've got even though the weather is warm outside, they've got their helmet on.

他们还戴着护目镜。

They've got the goggles on.

他们戴着面罩。

They've got a face mask on.

是的。

Yeah.

他们还戴着脖套。

They've got a neck mask on.

他们的袖子从肘部一直盖到手腕，双手也全被遮住了。

They've got sleeves covering their from their elbows down to their wrists, and then their hands are covered too.

我当时在想，他们是在躲警察吗？

And I was thinking, are they hiding from the police?

他们到底在干什么？

Like, what are they doing?

不是面部识别。

No facial recognition.

对。

Right.

现在是花粉季节，他们尽可能把自己裹得严严实实。

It's allergy season and they are covering themselves up as best they can.

是的。

Yeah.

我想分享一个故事，这对我来说挺有意思的，因为我之前没意识到世界上有这么多城市都在应对类似的问题，我选择分享的是美国佐治亚州的亚特兰大。

So I wanna share the story about, you know, this is kind of interesting to me because I didn't realize how many cities around the world were actually dealing with a problem like this, and the one that I I chose to share is Atlanta, Georgia in The United States.

它位于美国东南部。

It's in the Southeastern Part of The United States.

如果你从来没去过，那是个美丽的地方。

A beautiful place if you've never been before.

总之，他们也面临同样的问题。

Anyway, they have the same issue.

所以这个问题可以追溯到20世纪60年代，当时他们开始在城市里种植大量树木，而当时的决定是种植不会造成混乱的树种。

So their issue goes back to around the nineteen sixties when they started planting all of these trees in the city, and the decision at that time was to plant trees that wouldn't make a mess.

因为雌性树木为了繁殖，会产生果实、种子或大型荚果，这些最终会掉落到地面。

So female trees in order to reproduce, those trees produce fruits and seeds or large pods that will eventually fall to the ground.

所以亚特兰大的城市规划者认为，天哪，如果我们种这么多这样的树，就得花大量时间、金钱和人力来清理。

So the city planners in Atlanta thought, well, gosh, if we plant a lot of these trees, we're gonna be spending a lot of time and money and human resources on on the cleanup Mhmm.

因为它们一落地就立刻造成麻烦。

Because it falls to the ground immediately.

所以当时他们想，不如就种雄性树木吧。

So at that time, they thought, well, let's just plant male trees.

种雄性树种，因为它们所谓的更干净，不会有任何东西掉落到地上。

Let's plant the male species because they are, quote, unquote, cleaner because they don't drop anything from to the ground.

对吧？

Right?

但它们只产生花粉，所以让我们保持城市清洁会容易得多。

But they only produce pollen, so it's gonna be a lot easier for us to keep a clean city.

对他们来说，这原本是不可预测的，但发生了一场花粉爆发，而这个问题很有趣。

Well, it was unpredictable to them, but a pollen explosion happened, and the problem is an interesting one.

所以亚特兰大的雄性树木产生了大量花粉，顺便说一下，这被称为植物性歧视，因为它们种植的雄性树木远多于雌性树木。

So the male trees in Atlanta are producing all of and they call it botanical sexism by the way because they planted more male trees than female trees.

所以雄性树木产生了大量花粉，却没有雌性树木来吸收这些花粉。

So the male trees are producing all of this pollen and there's no female trees to catch that pollen.

所以它只是变成了一种尘埃。

So it's just dust.

它变成了覆盖汽车、街道和一切的污染物，而他们根本没有预见到这个问题。

So it's just turns into a pollutant that covers cars and the streets and everything, and they didn't see this problem coming.

如果他们种植的雌性树木数量与雄性树木相当，雌性树木就能吸收雄性树木的花粉，这是一点我以前都不知道的科学知识。

If they had planted an equal number of female trees compared to the number of male trees they were planting, the female trees would catch the pollen from the male trees, and this is something about science that I didn't even know before.

是的。

Yeah.