是什么让一个城市对孩子友好？

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

从北京的中心到全球舞台的边缘，您都在圆桌论坛。

From the heart of Beijing to the edges of the global stage, you are at Roundtable.

我是牛红林。

I'm Niu Honglin.

想象一下通勤的早晨，但视角却大不相同。

Picture a morning commute, but from a very different height.

身高仅约一米时，世界看起来截然不同。

At just around one meter tall, the world looks unfamiliar.

曲线感觉像一堵墙。

The curve feels like a wall.

过马路所需的时间比交通灯允许的还要长。

Crossing the street takes longer than the traffic light allows.

标识牌太高看不清，为所有人设计的空间突然间仿佛根本不是为孩子设计的。

Signs are too high to read, and spaces designed for everyone suddenly feel designed, well, at least not for you.

当城市从成人的视角建造时，儿童往往要在不属于他们的世界中穿行。

When cities are built from an adult's perspective, children often navigate a world that isn't meant for them.

但当规划者、政策制定者和社区开始从一米高的视角看待城市时，会发生什么？

But what happens when planners, policymakers, and communities begin to see the city from one meter high?

在今天的节目中，我邀请到了费菲和史蒂夫·哈瑟利。

For today's show, I'm joined by Fei Fei and Steve Hatherley.

现在请坐下，也许搬个小椅子，让我们加入这场对话。

Now pull up a chair and maybe a short chair, and let's join the conversation.

城市通常以摩天大楼、基础设施和经济增长来衡量。

Cities are often measured by skyscrapers, infrastructure and economic growth.

但还有另一种方式来评判城市的进步，那就是它如何对待最年幼的公民。

But there's another way to judge a city's progress, by how it treats its smallest citizens.

儿童很少参与规划会议或起草政策文件，然而我们创造的环境却塑造着他们的健康、安全，以及未来几十年的机会。

Children rarely sit in planning meetings or draft policy documents, yet the environments we create shape their health, their safety, and the opportunities for decades to come.

今天，我们邀请您探索一个正在兴起的时刻，一个正在兴起的运动，它提出了一个简单的问题。

Today, we invite you to explore a growing moment, a growing movement that asks this simple question.

如果一座城市真正倾听儿童的声音，它会是什么样子？

What would a city look like if it truly listened to children?

我们这样做是因为中国长期以来一直在努力构建更友好、更有利于儿童成长和发展的社会。

The reason we're doing this is because China has been putting effort in building societies that is more friendly to kids, that is better for the nurturing and the growing of children for quite a long time.

现在，我们正在关注一项新的指导方针，将这一努力从省级和基层层面提升到全国范围的层面。

And now we're looking at a new guideline, making the making what we're doing, making the effort not only from the provincial government's level, grassroots level, but from a national nationwide perspective.

是的。

Yeah.

实际上，从2021年开始，我认为中国已有不少城市在试点建设所谓的儿童友好型社会。

Actually, starting from 2021, I think that a com a numb number of cities across China have been piloting, you know, building what they call child friendly society.

到2025年底，我们看到已有超过100个城市启动了这类试点项目，建设儿童友好型城市。

And up to the end of 2025, we're seeing more than 100 cities that's been already launched this kind of pilot projects to build child friendly cities.

现在，我们有了新的指导方针，旨在将这一举措推广到全国范围。

And now we have a new guideline trying to advance this kind of scheme across the entire country.

所以我们现在谈论的不再仅仅是大城市了。

So we are talking not only about big cities anymore.

它还涵盖了中国农村地区，并旨在更好地保护未成年人的合法权益，促进儿童健康全面发展。

It also incorporated, for example, rural areas in China and also aims to better protect minors' lawful rising interests and also promote children's healthy and all round growth.

这其实是一个非常宏大的概念。

That's a big big concept, actually.

它涉及非常多方面的事情。

It involves a lot a lot of things.

是的。

Yeah.

这也是官方的举措。

This is official as well.

这是由国家发展和改革委员会以及国务院妇女儿童工作委员会共同推动的。

This is done by the National Development and Reform Commission and also the Office of National Working Committee on Children and Women under the state council.

如果我们仔细看这个计划的具体内容，它意味着让日常服务对儿童更易获得、更可负担，涵盖教育、医疗、出行、体育、娱乐等多个领域，涉及的内容非常广泛。

And the plan, if we look at the specifics of it, it means making everyday services more accessible for kids, more affordable as well, including areas such as schooling and medical care, travel, sports, recreation, so they covered a lot of different things here.

一个例子是，儿童可以免费或享受大幅折扣进入旅游景点。

One example would be children get to go for free or at least have a big discount to tourist sites.

更多学校可能会在假期开放体育设施。

More schools may open up sports facilities during holidays.

这对孩子们来说太好了。

That would be great for the kids.

我想这确实让人很沮丧。

Really frustrating, I suppose.

对吧？

Right?

当你面前有一个漂亮宽敞的游乐场，却在假期里不能使用时。

When you've got that beautiful big playground right in front of you and you can't use it during your time off.

另外，这一点也很有意思。

Also, this is interesting too.

医院被鼓励为幼儿设立24小时紧急绿色通道。

Hospitals are encouraged to set up twenty four seven emergency green channels for young kids.

我查了一下什么是绿色通道，因为我以前没听过这个术语。

I looked into what a green channel was because I hadn't heard that term before.

所以，据我理解，这是指医院专门为儿童设立全天候、24小时不间断的紧急医疗服务，让他们能够跳过常规排队流程，获得即时救治，成为优先处理对象。

So this is where hospitals, as far as I understand it, would set up dedicated around the clock, like I said, twenty four seven emergency services for young kids specifically, and this would allow them to bypass standard waiting times and receive immediate medical attention, making them the priority.

是的。

Yes.

我们之前讨论过建设儿童友好型社区。

We previously have talked about building communities that is child friendly.

那更多是关于设施，比如建造更多滑梯、秋千，让孩子能玩耍，并确保安全标准。

That was talking about more about the facility, about maybe building more slides, more swings so that it can play, and making sure that the safety standards.

当我提到安全标准时，我不仅指建筑安全标准，还包括我们使用的材料是否足够环保，是否适合正在成长的五岁孩子，诸如此类。

And when I say safety standards, I'm not only talking about the construction safety standards, but also the kind of material we use, whether or not they're green enough for kids, for a growing five year old, something like that.

但这些仍然属于建设儿童友好型社会时相对更具体的层面。

But that's that is still within the relatively more detailed perspective when it comes to building a child friendly society.

而我们现在关注的是一种更全面的指导方针，因为就环境而言，它不仅包括孩子周围的物理环境，还包括情感环境和社会环境。

And now we're looking at a very all round kind of guideline because when it comes to the environment, it's not only the physical environment around kids, but also the emotional one, the society.

你看，学校被要求更积极地应对欺凌问题。

You see schools are asked to tackle bullying more proactively.

在线平台必须过滤有害内容并限制过度使用，更严格的审查可以阻止未成年人进入酒吧或电竞酒店等场所。

Online platforms must filter harmful harmful content and limit excessive use, and stricter stricter checks can stop minors from entering places like bars or gaming hotels.

我记得小时候，学校老师会追着小孩子进那些满是电脑的酒吧，因为对于我们这一代来说，电脑并不是每家每户都有的东西。

I remember when I was a kid, I have school teachers chasing after little kids into the kind of bars that are full of computers because for my generation, computer is not something that you will have in each and every household.

为了玩那些电子游戏，你会去这些网吧或者我不知道该怎么称呼的地方。

And in order to play those video games, you go to these online bars or I don't know.

在中文里，我们把那种地方叫做网吧。

In Chinese, we Cafeteria call cafeteria kind of bar places.

那里全是电脑。

It's just full of computers.

只要你付钱，就可以使用电脑一段时间。

And if you pay up, you get to play or use the computer for a certain amount of time.

但这些场所刚流行起来后，国家就立即出台规定，只有成年人才能使用这些地方，因为很难控制和确保它们对孩子友好。

But right after the popularity of those kind of places, the country has already rolled out that only adults are allowed to use these places because it's hard to control and make sure that they are child friendly.

所以这些也包含在内。

So those are also in it.

是的。

Yeah.

你谈到的是安全措施，而我之前提到的医疗保健以及开放休闲设施、体育设施，这些都属于公共服务。

You're talking about safety measures And then what I mentioned before about, you know, medical care and and opened up recreation facilities, sports facilities, that's talking about public services.

因此，这里涉及的远不止简单的升级。

So there's much more at play here than simply, you know, upgraded

更多的幻灯片。

more slides.

对。

Yeah.

公园里升级的滑梯和秋千。

Upgraded slides and swing sets in the park.

此外，当涉及到建造滑梯、提供更多公共设施服务，或者谈到安全时，我认为指南还关注了许多仅是一次性投入的情况，比如建了一个滑梯，任务就算完成了，但实际上根本没人使用这个滑梯。

And also when it comes to, for example, building slides, offering more public sift services, or when it comes to safety, I think the guideline also focuses on, you know, a lot of the cases where it's more of a one time effort, meaning they build a slide here, job accomplished, but no one is actually using that slide.

他们正在努力

And they are trying

让你有两个孩子。

to make You have two kids.

你知道孩子的。

You know kids.

如果滑梯在那里，人们就会使用它。

If a slide is there, people are using the slide.

是的。

Yeah.

但你知道，如果他们没选对地点，比如在下雨天或太冷太热的露天环境中，就会有其他条件限制孩子们使用它们。

But you know, if they didn't pick the location right or for example, in an open airspace when it's raining outside or it's too cold or too hot, they just have like other conditions that are limiting children playing with them.

他们正试图确保这类服务能够持续开展、长期运行。

And they are sort of trying to make sure that these kind of services will be carried on, will be continued.

而且在涉及家庭和社区时，他们也能及时获得所需的支持。

And also when it comes to families, when it comes to communities, they get the support they need in a timely manner.

这同样非常重要。

That's also very, very important.

我想你意思是，不要只是把滑梯放那儿就以为每个人都会用。

I guess what you're talking about is don't just put the slide there and think, oh, everybody's gonna use this.

实际上，要仔细考虑滑梯周围的环境，考虑家庭或孩子需要什么，才能确保滑梯被充分利用。

Actually, put some thought into the area around it and what families or kids would want or need from the area around the slide to make sure that it's being put to use.

是的。

Yeah.

我明白你的意思。

I get what you're saying.

对。

Yes.

这个指南现在正在推出，是因为我们从不同角度持续投入了努力，包括社区建设、地方政府、企业，甚至多家医院都在努力让他们的场所对儿童更友好。

And the reason this one is happening right now, the guideline is being rolled out currently, is because we have been putting in the effort from different perspectives, from the community building area, from local governments, from even enterprises, and even different hospitals have been trying to make their places a bit more child friendly.

到2025年，中国已有116个城市启动了儿童友好城市试点项目，惠及城乡超过1.1亿儿童。

We see by the 2025, 116 cities across China had launched pilot projects to build child friendly cities and benefiting more than 110,000,000 children in both urban and rural areas.

不同城市和不同地方都有很多例子。

And there are so many examples in different cities and different places.

确实有。

There are.

是的。

Yeah.

例如，在深圳市，他们已经建了100多个儿童友好型公园。

For example, in the city of Shenzhen, they have built over 100 child friendly parks.

这些公园我们谈论的不仅仅是带有滑梯的公园。

And so these parks, we're not only talking about parks with slice.

它们还融合了许多本地景观特色，让儿童能直接接触自然。

They are also, you know, integrating a lot of, for example, local landscape characteristics so that children can get a direct interaction with the nature.

此外，这些公园还设置了大量教育长廊，让儿童在与自然互动的同时学习相关知识。

And also within that, these parks, they build a lot of educational hallways, for example, that children can learn about the nature while interacting with it.

同时，它们也在创造安全的环境，让儿童可以自由奔跑，不必担心例如滑板车突然出现，可能将他们置于危险之中。

And also, are creating a safe environment so that children can, you know, run around freely and not worrying about, for example, scooter coming out and probably, you know, put them in a dangerous situation.

这确实是个问题，对吧？

It's an issue, isn't it?

我的意思是，特别是在大城市，这不只是中国的问题。

I mean, particularly in the bigger cities, and it's not just here in China.

世界上任何大城市都存在这个问题，那里有孩子住在市中心，周围缺乏公园或开放空间，让他们可以无忧无虑地奔跑玩耍，比如，你可能会担心孩子在车流量大的路边玩球，这显然不安全。

This is an issue in any big city around the world that where you have, you know, kids living in the downtown areas where there aren't a lot of parks or open spaces where they can freely run around and play without any worries, yeah, then you're worrying about things like playing with a ball next to a road where there's a lot of traffic, and obviously, that's not a safe thing to do.

我也喜欢苏州的做法。

I like what they've done in Suzhou as well.

他们有一个儿童友好交通试点项目，为此他们开设了专门用于周末兴趣课程的定制公交线路，嗯。

They have a child friendly transportation demonstration project, and what they've done there is they've introduced customized bus routes for weekend interest classes Mhmm.

同时还设置了路口标识。

Along with signs at intersections.

这些标识并不是给孩子们看的。

The signs are are not meant for the kids.

这些标识是为了提醒司机们更加耐心。

The side the signs are meant to remind drivers to be more patient.

据我所知，苏州的孩子司机并不多。

There aren't a lot of child drivers in Suzhou as far as I know.

但这很酷。

But that's cool.

对吧？

Right?

你知道的。

You know?

所以，无论孩子们周末上课在哪里，比如说城市里某个区域恰好有很多培训机构之类的，他们就会设置专门的公交线路接送孩子们前往。

So wherever the kids have their classes on the weekend, let's say there's an area of the city where there happens to be a lot of institutes or whatever, they have specialized bus routes along the way to to take the kids there.

是的。

Yeah.

至于标识牌，比如在郑州，他们还设置了所谓的‘斑马线’，不是普通的白色条纹交通标志，而是用黄白相间的条纹，让司机更容易注意到。

And when it come to signage, for example, in the city of Zhengzhou, they also put up what they call carrying zebra crossing, which instead of, you know, the regular white straps crossing signs on the road, they're putting in place a white yellow stripes so it's more obvious to drivers.

他们说，这样使交叉路口的车辆礼让率提高了30%。

And they said they've increased the vehicle yielding rate at intersections by 30%.

也就是说，在学校区域，尤其是学校附近，司机们会更加留意。

So meaning, you know, in school air especially in school areas, drivers will be more mindful.

你知道的，会有保护孩子的措施。

You know, there will be kill kids.

简单却有效，令人惊讶。

Surprisingly simple but effective.

在很多情况下，情况就是这样。

That's what's happening in a lot of cases.

我们看到不同城市采取了不同的方法，提升了社区的友好程度。

We see different cities taking different approaches, increasing the friendliness level of their communities.

有些城市会去其他地方考察，因为国际上可能没有严格的标准，但存在一些关于儿童友好城市的组织或秘书处。

And some cities would go travel to other because they're internationally, I think there's international standards for maybe not a standards, more like association or secretariat for child friendly city.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们看到城市规划者会前往这些地方进行考察学习，了解当地的做法，并借鉴一些经验。

And we see city planners go to these places, having a little bit of a study tour field trip, learning about how to do things in their way and maybe taking some experiences.

是的，儿童友好城市并不是只在中国发生的现象。

Yeah, mean, child friendly cities isn't something that's only happening here in China.

今天早上我浏览了联合国儿童基金会的网站。

And I was on the UNICEF website this morning.

他们有一个自己的项目。

They have their own program.

这个项目叫做儿童友好城市倡议，是由联合国儿童基金会主导的，旨在支持地方政府实现儿童权利。

It's called the child friendly sin cities initiative, and that's a UNICEF led program that supports municipal governments in realizing the rights of children at the local level.

它以《联合国儿童权利公约》为基础，已经存在很长时间了。

They use the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child as its foundation, and it's been around for a long time.

这一倡议于1996年启动。

That initiative was launched back in 1996.

这是联合国儿童基金会和联合国人居署共同发起的项目。

It was a co project by UNICEF and UN Habitat to act.

我们看到许多城市规划者会前往这些儿童友好城市的典范，学习经验，以便将这些做法带回自己的城市用于规划。

And we see many city planners would go to these model child friendly cities to, you know, learn a lesson or something so they can take something back to their city when it comes to the planning.

其他城市则采取不同的方法，优先考虑安全性。

And other cities would go for a different approach that is focusing on safety first.

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如交通方面，如何更好地设计围绕儿童更多区域或学校的道路。

So the transportation, how to better design a road around an area with more kids or around a school.

这是他们的首要任务。

That's their first priority.

在一些其他城市，我们看到他们从学校、社区以及医院和儿童活动中心等儿童密集区域开始试点，再逐步扩展到公共区域，比如商场、公园等地。

And in some other cities, we see them taking pilot areas, starting from schools and communities as well as hospitals and children's interest centers, the places with more kids, and expanding it to public areas, like public mall and parks and places like that.

因此，有了这项新指南，我们现在可以采取更系统的方法了。

And that is why now with this new guideline, we can do things from a more systematic approach.

我认为，到目前为止，这些试点项目在一百多个城市中一直处于试探阶段。

Well, I think up until now, it's it's really been a test the waters type type of period with these pilot programs in on over a 100 cities.

但现在看来，政府已准备好从这种试点阶段转向建立一项永久性的全国性机制，而这一举措的证明就是它已被纳入国家的第十五个五年规划，不，是第五个五年规划，抱歉。我认为这里也很容易看出关联，因为目标不仅是建设儿童友好型城市，还要构建一个生育友好型社会。

But now it seems the government is ready to move from that testing period to make this a permanent nationwide mechanism, and and proof of that is that it's a part of the country's fifth year fifteenth five year plan, excuse me, and it's it's easy to connect the dots here as well, I think, because the goal is to build, yes, child friendly cities, but also a birth friendly society.

而且，过去五年里，已经有超过一百个城市推出了这类试点项目。

And also when it comes to you know, we have over 100 cities have already been launching this kind of pilots for the past five years now.

因此，对于中国西部地区发展较慢的城市或村庄来说，它们首先可能缺乏相关知识、资源和人才来建设这种儿童友好型社会。

And so when it comes to less for instance, a less developed city or village in the Western part of China, they may not have that much of knowledge, first of all, and the resources and also talents when it comes to building this kind of child friendly society.

因为当你仔细想想时，这不仅仅是建滑梯、多设公园、规划专用公交线路那么简单。

Because when you think about it, it's not only about building slides, having more parks, having designated bus routes.

它比这要细致得多。

It's more detailed than that.

例如，交通信号灯的时长，有时候对儿童来说太短，无法安全通过路口。

For example, the the the time period of your traffic light, you know, sometimes too short for children to pass that intersection.

是的。

Mhmm.

或者

Or

细节虽小，但至关重要。

Small detail, but really important.

是的。

Yes.

成年人可以轻松攀爬的台阶，对儿童来说却太高了。

The steps that adults can climb easily, but for children, it will be too big of a step.

或者，你知道，电梯按钮对他们来说太高，够不着。

Or, you know you know, the the the elevator buttons can be too tall for them to reach.

所以这需要很多细致的考量。

So it's a lot detailed.

我们需要更细致的措施，来具体构建适合一米高儿童群体的友好社会。

We we need more detailed measures when it comes to how exactly are we building a child friendly society for the one meter tall population out there.

对。

Yes.

这正是我们在指南中提到所有这些细致措施的原因。

And that is why we have all these detailed measures mentioned in the guideline.

哪一条最引起你的注意？

Which one caught your attention more?

嗯，我觉得有很多方面。

Well, I think there are a lot of things.

首先，我特别喜欢他们推动免费学前教育，这正好符合我孩子的年龄阶段。

Well, for one, I really like they're pushing for a free preschool education, which is more of my child's age currently.

我真的很希望这件事能实现。

I'm really hoping for that to happen.

然后，我觉得特别有趣的是，他们谈到了很多机制建设的问题。

And then I think really interestingly, they talked a lot about mechanism building.

问题是，这种机制到底具体指的是什么？

And the question is, what exactly is that kind of mechanism?

然后我查了一个案例，比如在新疆的喀拉玛依这个地方。

And then I checked on a case, for example, in a place called Karamai in Xinjiang, for instance.

它并不是中国特别富裕的城市，但为中小学生提供了免费公共交通。

It's not a really wealthy city in China in particular, but they offered free public transportation for primary and secondary school students.

他们之所以能做到这一点，是因为已经建立了类似的机制。

And the reason they're able to doing that is because they have this kind of a similar mechanism in place.

因为当我们考虑为学生提供免费交通时，首先需要交通部门确保他们有足够的运力。

Because when we're thinking about free transportation for students, they need, first of all, transportation authority to ensure they have the capacity.

然后我们需要财政部门来处理这些服务的所有补贴和资金。

And then we need finance authority to handle all the subsidies and funding for these kind of services.

接着我们需要教育部门来核实该地区所有学生的相关信息。

And then we need education authority to verify this information of all the students in this area.

他们还需要建立一种协调的、定期的沟通机制，来确保这一切能够顺利实现。

And they need to have this coordinated, you know, regular communication process and how to make that happen.

那么，谁愿意承担这些努力，以确保沟通渠道始终畅通呢？

And who is willing to take these kind of efforts to make sure these, you know, the the communication channel is always smooth.

所以我认为，我们未来可以期待的是，不同部门之间能出现更多这种合作，让我们共同推动一些大家都不会反对的事情——比如，我们的社会应该对所有年龄段的孩子友好且包容。

So I think that is what we can looking forward to in the in the future is that we can see more of this kind of collaboration happening among different authorities so that things we're we I think no one would disagree about, you know, we need our society to be friendly, to be inclusive to children of all ages.

是的。

Mhmm.

但究竟谁会主动承担起这些努力，去推动必要的决策呢？

But who is there to take the efforts and do the things that needs to do to make the decisions out there?

我认为他们做的一件非常明智的事是，在这些决策中咨询了家长的意见，因为这项政策正是针对这一点。

Well, one of the things I think that they're doing is really smart is they are consulting parents on these decisions because that's exactly what this policy is about.

它直接回应了家长日常面临的挑战。

It's directly responding to parents' everyday challenges.

你知道，如果你没有孩子，或者你是个年轻或年长、没有孩子的成年人，当你在城市里活动时，这些细节你根本不会留意。

You know, if you don't have kids, you know, if you're a younger person or an older person who doesn't have children, these are little things that you don't pay attention to when you're out and about in the city.

我从来没想到过降低电梯按钮这件事。

Lower elevator buttons never even crossed my mind.

我这辈子从未想过这一点。

Not one time in my life did I even think about that.

你是个高个子男人。

You're a tall man.

所以这根本没在我脑子里出现过。

Which is why it never crossed my mind.

但你一说，Fei Fei，我就恍然大悟了。

But as soon as you said that, Fei Fei, I was like, oh my gosh.

这完全说得通，因为我在我公寓里看到过孩子试图够到高层的按钮，但他们就是够不着。

That makes perfect sense because I've seen in my apartment kids trying to reach the the button for the upper floor, and they just can't do it.

所以他们会问我：‘你能帮我按一下吗？’

So they ask me, can you press that for me, please?

但如果孩子回家时电梯里没人，那该怎么办呢？

But what happens if there's nobody in there when the, you know, in the elevator when the kid comes home?

真是个好主意。

Great thinking.

但确实，要和父母聊聊他们真正需要什么。

But, yeah, talking to the parents about what they need.

托儿服务、免费的早期教育，那将会带来巨大改变，不是吗？

Childcare, early free early education, that would be a game changer, wouldn't it?

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

父母每天面临的那些虽小却紧迫的问题，比如在离家更近的地方设立社区托育中心，这样你就不用每天早上多花几公里的路程送孩子了，这当然会带来巨大改变。

The small but urgent problems that parents face daily, like community based childcare centers that are closer to home so that you don't have to travel that extra few kilometers in the morning to drop your kids off because that, of course, would be a huge difference.

像这样的事情。

Things things like that.

我喜欢的一个想法是——虽然可能不太经济，但非常有趣——那就是直接咨询孩子本身，或者找到方法让他们参与规划过程。

What I like, and I find this a fun, maybe not that cost effective idea, but a really fun is to consult kids themselves or finding ways to include them in the planning process.

在深圳就发生过一个非常积极、很好的例子。

One very positive, good example happened in Shenzhen.

在深圳这座城市，一位社区设计师实际上与多所学校的多个孩子进行了交流，让他们参与社区监督设施的设计，包括图案和画面的创作。当设施建成后，想象一下，能走过一个由你自己参与设计的监督设施，该有多令人兴奋。

In the city of Shenzhen, a community designer actually talked to several not several, like, kids in several schools and having them participating in the designing of a community oversight so that they can design the pattern, the pictures on it, and after it's finished, imagine how exciting it is to cross a oversight that is designed by you yourself or you participated in it.

这会让孩子们觉得：哦，我是这座城市的主人之一。

And that would make the little kids feel like, oh, I am one of the masters of the city.

我不只是住在这里的人。

I'm not only someone living here.

我也可以做点什么来参与其中。

I can do something to participate.

整个过程是通过一个相当严肃且正式的流程完成的：你需要提交你的设计，与其他孩子讨论，与成年人交流，并向他们证明你的想法为什么真的很好。

And all the process is made is done from, well, from a pretty serious and official process that is you have to submit your design and you discuss with other kids, you discuss with other adults, and you prove to them how come your idea is a really good one.

在最终决策确定后，许多孩子被允许参与最终的建造过程。

And after lending on a final decision, many kids are allowed to participate in the, let's say, final construction process.

这真的很棒。

It's just very nice.

在最终的建造过程中？

In the final construction process?

装饰过程。

Decorating process.

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

太棒了。

Was amazing.

我以为我们已经讨论过安全问题了。

I thought we talked about safety already.

你帮我爬上去，小男孩。

You just climb up there for me, little boy.

会没事的。

It'll be it'll be okay.

不是那样爬的。

Not like that.

我觉得我听起来可能会像个讨厌鬼。

I'm gonna I'm gonna sound like a jerk here, I think.

我的意思是，征求孩子们的意见，我觉得有时是个好主意，但也许别在这方面走得太远。

I mean, asking children for their opinions, I think sometimes it would be a good idea, but maybe don't go too far with that one.

我明白你的意思。

I know what you mean.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

但对我来说，我认为更重要的是大人的责任——你需要学会如何与孩子沟通并倾听他们。

But for me, I think it's more of on the adult's job is you need to learn how to communicate and listen to children.

我认为洪林的深圳案例正是成年人倾听孩子声音的完美例子。

And I think Honglin's Shenzhen example is a perfect example of adults listening to what the children are saying.

而且在许多情况下，这不仅仅关乎社会建设。

And in often the cases, it's not only about society building.

在育儿领域，当孩子拒绝你的提议时，很多父母往往无法接受孩子说的‘不’。

It's more in the parenting world is that when the children is, for example, refusing to your proposal, a lot of the time, a lot of parents will refuse to accept that no coming from their children.

我认为，对于那些每天与孩子沟通的专业人士来说，你们是如何与孩子交谈的呢？

And I think when it comes to, for example, professionals that they communicate with children on a daily basis, how do you, you know, talk to children?

如何确保以正确的方式获取信息，这也是我们需要思考和发展的方面。

How do you make sure that you get the information in a right way is also something that we need to, you know, think about and develop on I some

我不知道。

don't know.

相反，我认为关键在于专业人士。

I think the key element here, on the contrary, would be professionals.

那些理解儿童心理、知道哪些要求是合理且真正符合孩子需求的专业人士。

Professionals who understands the psychology of children, who knows what are some requests that are reasonable, that are actually what they need.

有哪些请求或提议只是孩子在玩闹，甚至有点调皮？

What are some requests or proposals that are just kids playing around and even kids being a little naughty?

他们其实并不真的想要这些，或者他们自己也不清楚

They're not really wanting this or they don't know

你最好去问对的孩子。

what they You better ask the right kids.

没错。

Exactly.

你需要提出正确的问题，因为大多数时候，孩子们都非常真诚。

You need to have the right questions because most of the time, kids are very sincere.

他们对自己的回答非常认真。

They are very serious about their answers.

他们很认真，但有时候并不懂得更好。

They are serious, but they don't know better sometimes.

这就是为什么我说专业人士是关键所在，因为不是每个家长都清楚自己在做什么，即使是在对待自己的孩子时，更不用说把孩子当作一群专家来咨询他们真正需要什么了。

So it's the reason I said professional being the key element here is because not every parent knows what they're doing even when they're dealing with their own kids, let alone consulting kids as a group of experts about what they need.

我的意思是，在某些情况下，他们并不需要是专家。

Well, I mean, they don't have to be experts in in some cases.

另一方面，假设你们社区有一个开放空间，而你是社区开发团队的一员，想为年轻人建一个公园。

The the flip side of that coin would be, let's say you had an open space in your community and you're you're part of the community developing team and you wanna build a park for young people.

也许你可以向社区里10到20岁的青少年发放一份调查问卷，提供一些多项选择。

Maybe you put out a survey to the, you know, I don't know, 10 to 20 year olds in the community and give them some multiple choices.

你们希望这里有什么？

What would you like to have here?

离这儿不远有个特别棒的滑板公园，我不知道你以前有没有见过。

Not far from here, there's a really cool skate park, and I don't know if you've ever seen it before.

我只是偶然发现了它，就这么回事。

I just kind of happened upon it, and that's all it is.

它就是专门为这个目的设计的。

That's all it's designed for.

除此之外，什么都没有。

There's nothing else.

这只是给滑板爱好者和轮滑者用的，就这么简单。

It's just for skateboarders and rollerbladers, and that's it.

但我心想，哇。

But I thought, wow.

真是社区的一个绝佳补充，而且里面只有青少年。

What a cool addition to the community, and the only people in there were teenagers.

但这类设施很重要，因为我们需要为青少年提供安全的场所，让他们在不上学、不学习的时候有地方消磨时间。

But these types of things are important because we have to have safe spaces for teenagers to spend their time when they're not in school and they're not studying.

因为如果他们不上学、不学习，又没有健康安全的方式释放精力，就容易惹上麻烦。

Because if they're not in school and they're not studying and they don't have a healthy, safe outlet for their energy, that's when they get themselves into trouble.

作为一个来自北美洲的人，我向你保证，这确实是事实。

Speaking as someone from North America, trust me that that is true.

除了那些能让他们玩得开心、结交新朋友的物理空间，拥有自己的小朋友圈和小社区也很重要。

And besides those physical spaces that will allow them to have some fun and make some new friends, having their own little friends circle their own little communities.

这也是被鼓励的。

It is also encouraged.

整个社会都鼓励创建和支持设立各种兴趣俱乐部，不仅包括课外课程，更重要的是鼓励儿童参与的各类项目。

The whole society is encouraged to create and to support the creation and the organization of certain hobby clubs, certain kind of not only extracurricular classes, but also more importantly, the kind of projects that children can participate in.

我想起一个非常出色的家长团体的例子。

I think there has been this one example of a group of parents who are quite great.

其中一些是科学家，一些是建筑工人，他们将一辆旧校车或普通的公交车改造了。

Some of them are scientists, some of them are constructors, and they have transformed one used school bus or just simply a bus.

这辆公交车因为太老旧已经不再使用，他们对其进行翻新，打造成了一个智能社区图书馆——这里说的‘智能’，指的是与人工智能和互联网技术相关的智能设施。

The bus is no longer in use because it's very old, and they renovated the bus and making it into a smart by saying smart, I'm talking about AI and Internet technology related smart kind of community library.

所有的项目，包括建造、翻新和设计，都是由社区里的一群孩子完成的。

And all the projects are well, all the construction as well as renovating and designing, and it was done by a group of kids, the group of kids in the community.

于是，他们开始修理、改造、装饰这辆公交车，将其变成一个不仅让社区里的孩子，也让整个社区的人都能享受的完整项目。

So they started fixing and changing and decorating and decorating the bus and making it a entire project that can be enjoyed by not only the kids in the community, but everybody in the community.

但在整个过程中，参与的孩子们也获得了极好的体验。

But during process, it has been a great experience for those participating kids as well.

是的。

Yeah.

所以当

So when

谈到让儿童参与时，无论他们的年龄如何，我认为主要应该是小学生、中学生甚至高中生这些青少年群体，这一点非常重要，因为我们不仅在谈论建设一个对儿童友好的社会。

it comes to, you know, involving children, well, regardless of their age, I think primarily maybe students of primary schools or secondary schools or even high schools, well, teenagers, is also very important because we're not only talking about building a child friendly society here.

我们还在谈论构建我们社会的未来，以及我们希望未来拥有怎样的一代人。

We are also talking about building the future of our society and what kind of a generation we want in our future.

当我们年老时，谁来为我们做决策，为我们建设老年人所需的基础设施呢？

Who is gonna when we were the elderly in the society, who are gonna be there to make the decisions for us to build the infrastructure for the elderly, us.

我认为，通过让学生成为各种社区项目的参与者，这种方式实际上是在教他们责任感、沟通能力和合作精神。

And I think having teaching the students in this kind of, you know, involving them in different community projects way is sort of teaching them responsibility, about communication, about cooperation as well.

我认为，团队合作是当今数字时代许多孩子在日常活动中缺失的一种能力。

I think it's something that team working is also something that in today's digital age, a lot of kids kind of missed in their daily activities.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这种情况在学校里其实也会发生。

I mean, that can happen in school, to be fair.

我的意思是，我理解你的观点，即让孩子们知道他们的声音很重要，他们的意见是有价值且被倾听的。

I mean, I I understand your point, I think, about, you know, showing children that their voice matters, that their opinion is valuable and heard.

但我认为学校也是实现这一点的好地方，甚至包括教室的设计，比如今年我们应该如何装饰我们的教室？

But I think school is a really great place for that to happen too, even classroom design, you know, what should we how should we decorate our room this year?

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种做法可以从幼儿园就开始，随着学生年龄增长，他们参与的决策也会变得越来越重要。

And that can start as early as kindergarten, and then maybe the decisions get more important as the students get older.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

当涉及到社区时，如果他们能参与艺术项目，或定期对公园设计等提出意见，那也会很好。

When it comes out into the community, if they can participate in art projects or give their opinions on on park design or things like this from time to time, that would be good too.

我认为也许更重要的是，回到我们对话中关于安全的部分。

Think maybe even a more important thing is about, you know, going back to the safety portion of of our conversation.

中国也对学校中的欺凌行为进行了严厉打击，我认为这可以追溯到几年前，当时这个问题变得非常重要。

There's been a crackdown on bullying in schools in China too, and I think this goes back a few years, as a matter of fact, when this became a really important issue.

欺凌以及对儿童不安全的产品。

Bullying and also unsafe unsafe products for kids.

因此，学校的食品安全、托育中心的在线保护、更强的网络保护、有害内容、屏幕时间管理——所有这些我们之前在圆桌讨论中提到的政策，现在都变得值得关注。

So, food safety in schools has become, something to watch for childcare centers, online protection, stronger online protection, harmful content, managing screen time, all of these other policies that we've talked about on roundtable.

我认为这些也包含在我们这里讨论的内容之中。

I think these are these are also included in what we're talking about here too.

我们讨论的不仅仅是为孩子们设置更低的电梯按钮——这固然很好，还包括如何让他们在网络和学校里更安全。

We're not just talking about, you know, putting lower elevator buttons for the kids, which is great, but also how to make them safer online too and and while they're in school.

是的。

Yes.

在全国范围内，我们无疑正在积极推动建设儿童友好型社会和儿童友好型城市，尽可能覆盖更多城市。

Because nationwide, definitely, we are pushing forward to the construction, to the building of child friendly societies, child friendly cities in as many city as possible.

但让我们坦诚地说。

But let's be frank.

不同城市在建设儿童友好社区方面处于不同阶段。

Different cities are in different stage when it comes to the development of child friendlies communities.

这些社区不仅存在于城市地区，也存在于农村地区，而农村儿童可能面临其他更紧迫的挑战需要解决？

And these communities are not only in city areas, but also in rural areas as well, and rural kids might be facing other more urgent challenges that need to be addressed?

其中一项措施正是鼓励城市之间相互学习。

Well, one of the measures is exactly that, that cities are encouraged to learn from each other.

例如，两个城市可以结对，分享各自在儿童友好建设方面的经验。

So for example, yeah, you could have two cities pair up and share their experiences of of what their cities are doing.

比如，一个发达的东部城市可以与一个西部的小城市合作，成为伙伴。

You know, maybe a a a western or sorry, a developed Eastern city could cooperate with a western smaller city to kind of be kind of a Partner.

伙伴。

A partner

是的。

Yeah.

或者制定指导方针，如果他们拥有更多服务和类似资源，可以共享这些信息以帮助他们前进。

Slash guideline perhaps if they had more services and and things like that and maybe share that information to help them along the way.

我认为，在中国许多农村地区，我们仍然存在留守儿童问题，而这一指南也特别关注为他们提供安全的玩耍和成长空间。

And I think most specifically in a lot of rural areas in China, we still have, for example, left behind children that I think this guideline also focuses on, you know, providing safe spaces for them to play and grow.

当他们的父母全年都不在身边时，谁来为他们提供这种父母般的指导呢？

And also when their parents are not around all year round, who will be there to provide that kind of parental guidance for them.

此外，他们的心理健康也是一个重大问题。

And then when it comes to their mental health is also a big issue there.

那么，谁来提供服务？谁来建立支持体系，保护这些留守儿童，确保他们的心理健康不会在农村地区演变成大规模的公共卫生危机？这正是当前指南试图解决的问题之一，现在正推动将其纳入全国性行动。

So who is going to be there to provide services and who is going to be there to build the support system and safeguard this left behind children and ensure that their mental health won't be growing to a big epidemic in the rural areas is also part of what the guideline is trying to tackle right now, you know, pulling launching this into a nationwide effort now.

这也正是为什么每年两会期间，我们都会看到不同的人士、代表、政策制定者和顾问就如何构建更全面、更具针对性的策略提出建议，以应对不同地区儿童心理健康的不同状况，甚至只是通过一些测试来了解各地儿童的心理健康状况。

And that is also why every year during the two sessions, we see different people, different delegates, members, and policymakers, advisers giving advice about building a more comprehensive and maybe also more pointing to different situations in different places kind of help, a strategy, or even just the kind of test that can see the situation of children's mental health in different places.

所有这些努力都在进行中。

And all these efforts are being made.

而我们能做的，就是环顾四周，看看城市和社区，时不时地进行一次现实检验，思考我们还能做些什么，让社会变得更加儿童友好。

And what we can do is to take a look around and cities, see our communities, and do a little reality check once in a while and see what are some other things that we can do to make our society a bit more child friendly.