当AI走进治疗室

讨论让世界运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这里是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听的是圆桌论坛。

You're tuned in to Roundtable.

今天我是史蒂夫，与玉山和菲菲一起。

My name's Steve today with Yushan and Fei Fei.

接下来，人工智能正在中国精神卫生医院诊断抑郁症。

Coming up, AI is now diagnosing depression in China's mental health hospitals.

它倾听您的声音，观察您的面部表情。

It's listening to your voice and it's watching your face.

好处当然包括可能提升医院效率，但机器真能理解人类心智吗？

The benefits include a potential increase in hospital efficiency, of course, but can a machine ever really understand the human mind?

那么尖端治疗与沟通危机之间的界限又如何呢？

And what about the line between cutting edge care and crisis of communication?

这条界限似乎每秒钟都在变得更模糊。

It seems to be getting thinner by the second.

之后，有时每到周一，我们可能会觉得工作量永远减不下来，而下个周末仿佛遥不可及。

After that, sometimes every Monday, we may feel like our workload will never decrease and our next weekend feels like a distant dream.

如果你有这种感觉，或许需要一点激励。

If that's you, perhaps you need a little motivating.

我们会支持你。

We've got your back.

《周一加油站》即将上线。

Motivational Monday is on the way.

播客听众可以在苹果播客上搜索《圆桌议事》找到我们。

Our podcast listeners can find us Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.

别忘了，这是我们每天都会说的话。

And don't forget, we say it every day.

我们期待听到您的反馈。

We love hearing from you.

请将您对圆桌讨论话题的任何想法通过语音留言发送给我们。

So send your voice notes our way with any of the thoughts that you might have on any of the things that we discuss here on Roundtable.

具体操作方式如下。

Here's how you do it.

圆桌播客的邮箱是qq.com。

Roundtable podcast at qq.com.

Roundtablepodcast@qq.com。

Roundtablepodcast@qq.com.

如今，人工智能正在进入最具人性深度的领域之一——心理治疗师的诊室。

And now, artificial intelligence is now entering one of the most profoundly human realms, the therapist's office.

全国各地的心理健康机构正在部署AI技术，通过分析患者的言语和面部微表情来筛查抑郁等病症，生成风险评估报告，甚至协助早期干预治疗。

Mental health institutions across the country now see AI being deployed to screen for conditions like depression by analyzing a patient's speech and facial micro expressions, generating risk assessments and even assisting in early stage interventions.

这种技术整合确实能带来更高效率和更大规模，但也迫使我们思考一个问题。

This technological integration, it does promise greater efficiency, it promises greater scale, but it forces us to confront something.

我们该如何利用AI的分析能力，同时不损害只有——我要再次强调——只有人类治疗师才能提供的那种共情与联结？

How do we harness that analytical power of AI without undermining the essential empathy and connection that only, and I'll say that again, only a human therapist can provide?

这是心理健康的未来吗？

Is it the future of mental health?

也许是，但我想这是一种微妙的合作关系，而要达到恰当的平衡，这条路上充满了伦理和实践的双重挑战。

Maybe, but it's a delicate partnership, I think, and the path to achieving the right balance is fraught with both ethical and practical challenges.

关键在于我们是否需要它？

It is a case of do we need it?

我想，有一点需要。

A bit, I think.

不过我们会讨论这个问题。

But we'll talk about that.

首先，让我们深入了解细节。

First, let's get to the details.

是的。

Yes.

最近，中国越来越多的心理健康机构，如著名的北京安定医院、北京大学第六医院、上海精神卫生中心或北京回龙观医院，以及成都、广州等地的知名机构，现在都提供基于人工智能的服务，从抑郁症筛查到心理干预。

So recently, more mental health institutions in China, like the famous Beijing Anding Hospital, the Peking University's sixth hospital, Shanghai Mount Mental Health Center, or Beijing Hui Longguan Hospital, as well as such well known institutions in Chengdu and Guangzhou, they are now offering AI based services for depression screening to psychological interventions.

因此，人工智能不仅处理初步咨询工作，还负责后续跟进和预约提醒。

So AI is not only handling initial consultancy consultancy, but also they they they carry out follow ups, appointment reminders.

它也开始直接介入患者的治疗过程。

It also starting to directly intervene in patient treatment.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而所谓的'工作场所'可能是一间评估室、一个机器人，甚至是隐藏在医院信息系统后台的界面。

And the workplace, quote, unquote, might be an evaluation room, a robot, or even an interface hidden in the background of the hospital's information system.

举个例子，有位张姓患者前往北京安定医院就诊时，没有被带进医生办公室，而是被引导到一个安静的小玻璃房间。

For example, there is an example that a patient named Zhang went to Beijing Ending Hospital, and instead of going into a doctor's office, she was directed to a small, quiet, glassroom.

现场看不到医生，只有一个带摄像头的显示器。

And there was no doctor in sight, just a monitor with a camera.

那其实是人工智能抑郁评估工具。

And that was an AI depression evaluation tool.

该系统设计用于分析她的宏观表情和声音，开始像真正的医生那样询问：'你最近感觉如何？睡眠怎么样？'

And that system designed to analyze her macro expressions, her voice, It started to ask young questions like a real doctor, like, how have you been feeling lately, and how is your sleep?

与此同时，摄像头记录下了她反应的每一个微小细节。

And meanwhile, that camera was recording every little detail of her responses.

五分钟后，AI生成了一份抑郁风险评估报告，随后转交给人类精神科医生进行复核和进一步诊断。

And then after five minutes, the AI generated a depression risk report and then was handed over to a human psychiatrist for review and further diagnosis.

这简直像是科幻电影情节照进现实。

That's like sci fi movie move to reality.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且你知道，像阿里巴巴、京东这样的科技公司也在提供AI驱动的心理健康产品，并开始投资相关初创企业。

And also, you know, tech companies like Alibaba, jd.com are also offering AI powered mental health products and also start to invest it in in startups.

没错。

Yeah.

腾讯和百度，我想也参与其中了。

Tencent's done at Baidu, I think, is is in the game as well.

所以你刚才说有位患者进了间玻璃墙房间，没有医生，是AI开始向她提问。

So you said that one patient went into a room with glass walls and no doctor, the AI started asking her questions.

那么这些AI系统是如何在医疗中心部署的，它们具体在做些什么？

So how are these AI systems being deployed across these health care centers and what what exactly are they doing?

这有什么不同吗？

Is it is it different?

我想每个地方可能都不一样，取决于你所在的中心。

I guess it's different in in each place and it depends on which center you're at.

是的。

Yeah.

而且如今这一领域还应用了许多不同类型的前沿技术。

And also there are many various types of advanced technologies that's being used in this area nowadays.

目前主流的AI诊断工具主要依靠机器学习和深度学习算法来分析大量与抑郁症相关的数据。

The current mainstream AI diagnostic tools mainly rely on machine learning and deep learning algorithms to analyze large amounts of data related to depression.

它们还会尝试寻找不同的模式。

And they also try to find different patterns.

有个很有趣的部分，就像菲菲你之前提到的，它们会记录一些东西。

And one very curious part, like you mentioned earlier, Fei Fei, is that they kind of document things.

它们会记录你极其细微的面部表情、微表情、语言模式等整体特征，然后从这些细节开始进行分析。

They record your very subtle facial expressions and your micro expressions and speech pattern and general and from there, from these details, they start to analyze.

因此，系统可能会关注患者的语言模式——抑郁症患者往往更频繁使用第一人称代词，且言语中带有更多负面情绪。

So they might look at patients' language patterns in the sense that depressed individuals they tend to or they may use first person pronouns more often and have a more negative tone in their speech.

同时这些AI系统还会捕捉面部微表情，那些人类肉眼容易忽略的细微变化，比如面部肌肉松弛或茫然凝视某处的神态。

And also these AI system, there's they also look for facial gestures, small facial expression that just so subtle that it's missable for a human eye, but they can capture it like a relaxed facial muscles or or staring blankly at some some places.

基于这些细节，它们还能给出诊断或治疗建议。

And from these details, they can also give diagnosis or suggestions for a diagnose Yeah.

关于这点。

On that.

这些还只是表层特征的观察。

They also look at that's kind of the surface level stuff.

但AI还能分析头部倾斜角度、面部朝向、语音语调等所有你提到的特征，在五分钟内综合评估，快速判断你的抑郁风险或病情严重程度。

But then the AI can also well, does also look at the angle of your head or your face, which way your head is tilting, the tone of your voice, all of those things that you mentioned, and then those ones are taken into account in five minutes, and then it quickly assesses your risk for depression or if you have or are suffering from depression how severe it might be.

这个数字化身正在完成过去需要人类医生完成的工作。

It's a digital avatar doing the job that human doctor would have in the past done.

是的，摄像头会全程记录，所有这些细微信息都会被用于AI的分析中。

And yes, the cameras are recording at all times and all of these little bits of information are used in the AI's analysis.

另外，我认为有些系统，比如北京安定医院的AI系统，还会观察你额头上细微的皱纹变化。

And also, I think some system, for example, the Beijing Ending Hospital's AI system, it also looks at your tiny wrinkles on your forehead pus.

所以每个80岁老人都严重抑郁了？

So every 80 year old is severely depressed.

我们不是这个意思，但有趣的是，有些你不愿直接向人类治疗师或医生透露的事情，当AI或机器询问时，你可能会觉得更容易倾诉。

We're not saying that, but I think it's really interesting that sometimes things that you won't directly share to your human therapist or human doctors may sound or feel like it's easier to spread out when it's an AI or a machine asking you that.

好吧。

Alright.

那么，我们继续这个话题。

Well, let's get to that.

听起来你是在讨论这项技术的一个潜在优势。

It sounds like you're you're speaking to one of the potential advantages of this.

如果患者不愿或不敢向人类医生透露某些想法，他们可能更愿意对AI工具敞开心扉。

That if a customer if a patient, excuse me, wouldn't feel comfortable or confident sharing certain thoughts with a with a with a human doctor, they might be more comfortable sharing with an AI tool.

这就是为什么会有个玻璃盒子，里面有个AI在温柔提问。

That's why there's a glass box and there's an AI asking gentle questions.

在之前的案例中，有患者反映觉得被问到的问题某种程度上像是在引导，让他们感觉每个问题背后都有相当明显的意图。

And in previous cases, some patients are reported to feel like some questions they are being asked are kind of under sort of guidance where they feel like it's leading them towards a pretty obvious intent behind each question.

这是程序员杨军解释的。

That's explained by Yang Jung, who is a programmer.

他说两年前去北京安定医院的经历让他感觉全程都在遵循这个非常专业且知名的系统——汉密尔顿抑郁评定量表（HAM-D），这是全球公认的金标准抑郁评估工具。

And he said that his visit to the ending hospital in Beijing two years ago kind of let them to feel like all all he's following this whole very professional and well known system called the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or more widely known as HAM D which is considered the golden or the most widely used measure of depression worldwide.

但他觉得每个选项背后的意图太明显，自己可以轻易操控答案。

But he felt that the intent behind each option was quite obvious and he could easily manipulate his answer.

不过当医生根据这些提问进行诊断时，患者反映医生有更客观的数据作为依据，这让部分患者对诊断结果更有信心。

But when it comes to asking those questions, the doctors they reported to have more objective data to base their diagnosis on which has made some patients feel more confident in the result.

这源自中国西北陕西省西安市的一项不同研究——西北工业大学教研团队创新性地应用AI技术开发了一套模型，项目负责人表示当患者与虚拟医生互动时，生成式大模型会驱动共情对话引擎，根据患者反应动态调整问题。

And this comes from a different study in Xi'an in Northwestern China's Shaanxi Province where a faculty team from Northwestern Polytechnic Polytechnic University has innovatively applied AI technology to develop a sort of a model and their project leader said that when one patient interacts with the virtual doctor, the generative large model drives an empathetic conversation engine and start to adjust the question dynamically based on how the patient's responding to them.

所以这确实是

So that's something really

这不就是聊天机器人做的事吗？

That's what a chatbot does, doesn't it?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

某种程度上跟随你的

Sort of follows your

跟随你的，对。

Follows your Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

其他优势在于，AI工具不会感到疲倦。

Other advantages, the AI tool wouldn't get tired.

它不会评判你。

It wouldn't judge you.

我想它也不会心情不好。

It wouldn't be in a bad mood, I suppose.

这些都是AI一贯带来的优势，无论我们讨论什么话题。

Are the same benefits that AI always comes with, regardless of what we're talking about.

但有证据表明，至少根据一些医生的说法，这相当准确。

But there is proof, at least according to some doctors, that this is pretty accurate.

是的。

Yeah.

据北京安定医院的一位医生介绍，该院正积极采用AI技术，他们发现其系统的准确率高达约80%。

According to a doctor from the Beijing Anding Hospital, which is actively bracing AI technology, that they found the system their system is is quite accurate with a rate of about eighty percent.

三年前，以心理健康治疗闻名的北京第六医院临床心理中心也推出了类似的服务机器人'北小六'。

And three years ago, the the clinical psychological center at Beijing's sixth hospital, which is also very famous for its mental health treatment, also launched a similar service robot called Bei Xiaoliu.

该机器人涵盖四大核心模块：评估、干预、康复和教育，针对认知、情绪、行为、人际关系和社会功能五大关键领域。

And the robot covers four main modules: assessment, intervention, rehabilitation and education, addressing five key areas, cognition, emotion, behaviour, relationships and social function.

据开发团队成员透露，临床试验表明该机器人在改善抑郁和焦虑方面效果显著，有时甚至优于人类治疗师。

And according to a member of that development team, clinical trials showed that that robot has a significant impact on improving depression and anxiety and also sometimes even outperforming some human therapists.

而且AI还能持续监测患者状态。

And the AI could continuously monitor the patient too.

并根据之前收集的数据来寻找变化。

And look for changes based upon the previous data that was collected.

AI治疗目前在西方也是一个热点话题。

AI therapy, it's kind of a hot button issue in the West now as well.

网上有很多工具可供感兴趣的人使用，我认为它有其明显优势，因为它打破了障碍——我在这里稍微转换一下话题，我在谈论在线治疗。

There are a lot of tools online that are available for people who are interested in it, and I think that it has its obvious advantages because it breaks down the barrier I'm kind of switching topics here, I'm talking about online therapy.

它某种程度上消除了那些一开始可能对去医院感到紧张的人的障碍。

It kind of breaks down the barriers for people who might feel a little bit nervous about getting to the hospital in the first place.

不过，这又是另一个话题了。

But again, that's a different story here.

我们讨论的是AI被直接引入医院本身。

We're talking about it being put into the hospitals themselves.

我们已经谈到了AI的一些优势，我认为这些优势相当明显，但在涉及心理健康筛查和干预时，引入AI是否存在风险呢？

So we talked about some of the advantages, and again, I think they're quite obvious, but are there and there are risks of bringing AI in for screenings and intervention when we're talking about someone's mental health?

是的。

Yeah.

当我第一次听说这个话题时，第一反应是：那人类治疗师怎么办？你知道的，确实存在患者对治疗师产生过度情感依赖的著名案例。嗯。

And, you know, the first reaction when I heard about this topic is what about, you know, human therapists, there will be famous examples of the patients getting too emotionally attached to a therapist Mhmm.

对治疗师产生依赖。

To a therapist.

我能想象当AI系统被广泛应用于这些心理健康治疗时，部分患者同样会对这些AI机器人产生情感依恋。

And I can imagine when AI systems are widely used in these mental health treatments, some of the patients will also be emotionally attached to these AI robots.

这可能会成为未来一个非常严重的伦理问题。

And that can be a very big ethical problem going forward.

而且我看不出目前有直接或快速的解决方案能应对这个问题。

And I don't see there is an intimate or very fast solution to this issue.

但如果AI仅限于医院内部使用，这还会是个问题吗？

Would that be an issue if the AI were located within the walls, the four walls of the hospital though?

是的，但这同样无益于患者的心理健康，毕竟他们去医院正是因为心理出现了问题。

Yeah, but it's like, you know, won't do good to the patient's mental health because it went to the hospital too Because the the his or her mental health has problems.

如果他或她过度依赖这些AI机器人，这根本解决不了问题。

And if he or she became overly attached to these AI machine robots, that won't solve the problems.

我认为，这只会让问题恶化。

The only, I think, is worsening the problem.

是的。

Yeah.

这是一项研究的数据。

Here is the data from one study.

这项研究调查了496名AI聊天应用用户，发现人们对与AI对话的满意度越高，他们现实生活中的社交互动就越差。

So this study covers a group of 496 AI chat apps users and found that the more satisfied people feel with conversations with AI, the worse their real life social interactions become.

从神经科学角度看，有证据表明，与AI互动所触发的与信任和情感联结相关的激素水平，远低于与真人互动时的水平。

So there's proof that from a neuroscience perspective, interactions with AI, it triggers much lower levels of a hormone linked to trust and bonding than interactions with real people.

所以这仍然是有区别的。

So it's still different.

你以为自己在和人聊天，但那并不是人。

You're you think you're chatting with someone, but that's not someone.

那只是个东西。

That's something.

而你大脑中形成的纽带，那种神经学上的联结是完全不同的。

And the bond made in your brain, the neurological bond is completely different.

那么这套基于AI构建的整个治疗系统对这些患者究竟能有多大帮助呢？

So how helpful is this whole treatment system built based on AI is going to be for these patients?

是啊。

Yeah.

目前仍无定论。

It's still undetermined.

这些毕竟是机器人。

Well these these are robots.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它们是基于过去的数据训练出来的。

And they are trained on data from the past.

但就像人类医生一样，AI机器人也可能误诊病人。

But just like human doctors, AI bots would be capable of misdiagnosing someone.

那么如果我走进医院，进入一个玻璃房间，回答AI的问题，然后AI说：你没问题。

So if I were to go into a hospital and then go into a glass room and I'm answering questions from an AI and the AI says, no problem with you.

好吧，哦，好吧。

Well then, oh, okay.

我的感受就自动变得不合理了。

My feelings are automatically unjustified.

对吧？

Right?

因为一个机器人告诉我我错了。

Because a bot told me that I'm wrong.

我以为自己抑郁了，但显然并没有。

I thought I was depressed but apparently I'm not.

那就再见啦。

So bye.

回头见。

See you later.

这种情况也有可能发生。

There's a potential for that as well.

或者另一个极端是，某些人工智能会过度附和你，

Or the other extreme goes with some AI overly agree with you in

无论你说什么。

whatever you say.

严重抑郁，没错。

Severely depressed Yeah.

实际上，是的。

When actually Yeah.

也许我

Maybe I

当时正在浏览斯坦福大学的网站。

was looking at the Stanford University website.

他们对此话题有很多见解。

They had a lot to say on this topic.

确实，这能提高医院的工作效率，降低成本。

And, yeah, it makes things more efficient for for hospitals, low cost.

可及性是另一个主要优势。

Accessibility is another major advantage as well.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但存在一个问题，这也是我们每次讨论人工智能时都会遇到的。

But there's a problem, and it's, again, a problem that we see with whenever we talk about AI.

如果训练数据存在偏见，AI可能会放大这些偏见。

If it's trained on biased data, the AI can amplify these biases.

是的。

Yeah.

你提到过，飞飞，过度依赖的问题。

You mentioned it, Fei Fei, the overreliance.

斯坦福医学院也讨论过这一点。

Stanford Medical talked about that too.

但我想说的是，也许你从我一开始的语气就能听出来

But here's what I and maybe you could tell from my tone when we started this

是的，完全同意。

Yeah, totally.

我一点都不喜欢这样。

I don't like this at all.

一点也不。

Not at all.

我认为你们正在将最重要的人类互动之一去人性化。

I think you are dehumanizing one of the most important human interactions.

一个人真正做出'我需要帮助'这个决定的过程，

What it takes for a person to actually make the decision, I need help.

做出那个决定是人类一生中所能做的最坚强的事情之一。

To make that decision is one of the strongest things that a human being will ever do in their entire lives.

然后走进诊所或医院，却立刻被安排去和一个不真实的东西对话——我不在乎它有80%的准确率，对我来说这远远不够。

To then go into a clinic or a hospital and be immediately sent in to have a conversation with something that isn't real, I don't care 80% accuracy, that's not good enough for me.

在实施之前最好能达到100%的准确率，因为还有20%的失败率。

It better be a 100% before they put it into implication because there's 20% failure.

所以当一个人去那里寻求帮助时，他们其实已经打破了自己的心理防线，然后却要在那里进行这样的互动。

So when again, so if a person goes in there seeking help, they've already kind of broken down a personal wall of theirs and then to go in there and interact like this.

我觉得这非常缺乏人情味，甚至某种程度上近乎不尊重，而且我认为这可能存在危险，甚至有点轻率。

I find it deeply impersonal, I find it almost disrespectful to a degree, and I find it to be potentially dangerous and maybe even a little dismissive Yeah.

对于人们感受的轻忽。

Of how the people are feeling.

在某些情况下会产生误导吗？

Misleading in some cases?

是的。

Yeah.

但我认为AI可以成为一个非常好的初始工具。

But but I think AI would be a very good starting tool.

比如许多大医院每天要面对大量患者，对于人类医生来说，每天面对100名患者时很难保持人性化。

If, for example, many big hospitals, they're facing with a lot of patients every day, it will be very difficult for a human doctor to not, to be human, you know, when you're facing a 100 patients a day.

你知道，就像玉山提到的那个著名的问卷系统，它能快速给出答案，你某种程度上会依赖它。

You you sort of rely on the, you know, what what Yushan mentioned about the very famous questionnaire system that can give you very fast answers.

这会导致问题，因为我有很多朋友去这些医院寻求帮助。

And that can lead to problems because I have a lot of friends who went to these hospitals seeking help.

他们首先要做的就是填写这些问卷。

And the first task they have is to fill up these questionnaires.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且我们知道正确答案。

And we know the right answers.

但我认为那是

And I think that's But

不愿意给出正确答案。

not willing to give the right answers.

哦，我

Oh oh, I

我明白

I see what

你的意思。

you're saying.

看吧。

See.

我知道正确答案。

I know the right answer.

你知道我该说什么。

You what I'm supposed to say.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

但这并不意味着它能反映你的真实问题。

But that doesn't mean that's it's gonna reflect your real problems.

我认为在筛查方面，人工智能非常有用。

And I think for screening, AI is very helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

但你不能欺骗它吗？

But couldn't you trick?

如果你知道在调查问卷中填写什么答案——抱歉打断你——如果你知道该填什么答案，如果你不熟悉AI工具及其关注点（皱眉、因皱眉产生的皱纹、语调）的话。

If you were if you knew what answers to put in the survey, sorry to interrupt you by the way, if you knew what if you knew what answers to put in the survey, if you were not familiar with the the AI tools and what they were looking for, frowns, wrinkles because of frowning, tone of voice.

如果你想欺骗系统，难道不能成功吗？

If you wanted to trick it, could you not trick it?

我认为在宏观面部表情方面，你并不了解

I don't think you know, when it comes to macro facial expressions

这些微表情太细微了，你甚至意识不到。是的。

It's so it's too subtle that you're not even thinking of it Yeah.

当你在做表情时。

When you're making it.

这也是为什么目前AI主要服务于那些有轻度情绪困扰或抑郁的人群。

And that's also why that right now AI mainly serves people with mild emotional distress or depression.

它并不适用于那些患有严重精神疾病的人。

It's not for those with severe mental illnesses.

我某种程度上同意你们两位的观点，也理解在当前阶段它确实还不够完善。

And I kind of agree with both of you and I get the points that it's at the current stage, it's not enough.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但它确实能提供帮助。

But it's there to help.

我最后要说的是。

Here here's my final point.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当番茄酱被发明时，人们把它涂在薯条上。

When ketchup was created, okay, People put it on french fries.

哇。

Wow.

太神奇了。

That's amazing.

多么伟大的发明啊。

What a great invention.

我们把它加在芝士汉堡上吧。

Let's put it on a cheeseburger.

绝配。

Perfect match.

我们之前怎么没想到呢？

Why didn't we think of this before?

我们把它加在早餐麦片上吧。

Let's put it on breakfast cereal.

不行。

Nope.

早餐不需要番茄酱，AI真是太神奇了。

Don't need ketchup on breakfast AI is amazing.

让我们把它应用到工业领域。

Let's put it in industry.

让我们把它引入客服行业。

Let's put it in customer service.

太棒了。

Wonderful.

我明白了。

I see.

让我们把它用于心理健康领域。

Let's put it in mental health.

嗯，也许我们那里不需要它。

Well, maybe we don't need it there.

这就是我的观点。

That's my point.

是啊，但这需要大量测试，我猜。

Yeah, but that requires a lot of testing, I guess.

对。

Right.

嗯。

Yeah.

那就动手做吧！

So do it!

希望AI诊断那20%的失误率不会成为测试的代价。

Let's hope the twenty percent of failure of the AI diagnosis is not going to be the cost Cost of the test.

没错。

Yeah.

你说得完全正确。

You're exactly right.

是啊。

Yeah.

我对这件事持相当怀疑的态度，这是显而易见的，但我真心希望，如果它能奏效，人们能得到所需的帮助，那么无论通过何种方式实现这一目标，我都完全支持。

I'm very cynical about this one, obviously, but I do hope that, you know, if it works and people get the help that they need, then however they achieve that goal is perfectly okay with me.

接下来我们将迎来'激励星期一'环节。

We've got motivational Monday coming up next.

请继续关注我们。

Stay with us.

玉山，现在是'激励星期一'时间。

Motivational Monday time, Yushan.

请继续。

Go on.

本周的'激励星期一'我要特别用来表达我的感激、兴奋与鼓舞——欢迎菲菲正式加入我们的团队。

I'm going to use this week's Motivational Monday as a special segment to express just how grateful excited and encouraged I am to have Fei Fei officially on the team.

人们常说，要了解你的伴侣——多半是恋人或者朋友——最好的方式就是和他们一起旅行。

You you always say people always say that to know your partner, most likely your your romantic partner or your friend better is to travel with them.

而最初我就是这样认识菲菲的。

And that's how I got to know Fei Fei in the first place.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

我们是从今年五月开始交谈的，当时我们一起去中国西南的贵州出差。

We began talking since this May when we both went went to Southwest China's Guizhou to do the business trip.

那是我第一次遇见菲菲，尽管我已经在这里工作了将近四年。

And that's when I first encountered Fei Fei even after almost four years working here.

那时我才发现她在镜头前或日常采访中表现得多么专业。

That's when I learned how amazingly professional she can be in in front of cameras or just in day to day interviews.

这是我以前从未接触过的新体验，因为我一直从事专题和软性话题的工作。

That's new experience that I've kind of haven't been exposed to before because I've been working on feature and softer topics.

而面对菲菲时，她既能驾驭新闻风格、采访风格，又能在镜头前展现出非常细腻、友好且甜美的风格。

And then in face of Fei Fei who can kind of navigate both the newsy style, the interviewing style, and then in front of the camera, the very subtle and and friendly and sweet style.

这对我来说就像一个全新的世界。

That's like a new world to me.

我非常期待从现在开始能从圆桌会议上向你学习更多，既然你正式成为了团队一员

And I'm very much looking forward to learning more from you from Roundtable now that you're officially a part

成为这个团队的一员。

of this team.

你知道，我真的很受宠若惊。

You know, I'm I'm so flattered.

我从没听过这么多关于我的好话。

I've never heard so many good things about me.

哇。

Aw.

我太高兴了。

I'm so glad.

我只是感觉糟透了。

I just I feel terrible.

我只是说我们真的很高兴你能加入。

All I said was we're really happy to have you here.

这就足够了。

That's good enough.

是啊。

Yeah.

挺有意思的，对吧？

It's funny, isn't it?

我们在节目里讨论过这个。

We we talked about this on the show.

我记得是在讨论另一个话题时提到的，在北京像我们这样规模的公司里，办公室环境都差不多。

I think it was just kind of a part of another topic where we said that, you know, in a in a place, in an office building such as ours, which is kind of like a typically sized office building, I suppose, for a company in Beijing.

你看，我们周围都是同一家公司的同事，脖子上挂着同样的工牌。

You know, we're surrounded by people who work at the same place, who carry the same card around their neck.

没错。

Right.

但可能共事多年却从未有过交流或了解。

But we might spend years never interacting with them or getting to know them.

确实如此。

Exactly.

这真的很遗憾，因为我们错过了或许能从走廊里擦肩而过的人身上学到些什么的机会。

Which is a real shame because you're missing out or we are missing out on the opportunity to perhaps learn something from the people that we pass by in the hallway Yeah.

每一天都是如此。

Every single day.

我想这大概就是你想表达的意思。

I guess that's kind of what you're getting to.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以每隔几年转换一下关注点是件好事，你知道的。

And and so it's a good thing to, you know, shifting your focus every couple of years, you know.

比如说，如果你在一个专业领域待得太久，有时会过于专注，反而与周围的世界脱节。

If, for example, you stayed in one professional areas for too long, sometimes you get too focused, and you sort of lose contact with the rest of the world around you.

中国有句老话说得好，嗯，就是那个什么...

And there was a Chinese saying, Well, it's a very What

这是什么意思？

does that mean?

意思是如果你移植一棵树，树可能会死。

It means if you sort of if you replant a tree, the tree might die.

但如果你给人换个地方，那个人就会重新焕发活力。

But if you change a place for humans, that human will become lively again.

嗯，这个翻译对我来说很糟糕。

Well, it's a very bad translation for me.

哦，我明白了。

Oh, I get it.

是的。

Yeah.

这只是因为作为人类，我们需要改变自己的位置和环境。

It's just because as humans, we need to change our positions and place in Yes.

只为保持新鲜感。

Just to stay refreshed.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得我现在应该说些更戏剧性的话。

I feel like I should say something more dramatic now.

抱歉。

Sorry.

当菲菲来到圆桌会时，我就知道我们的生活永远改变了。

When Fei Fei came to Roundtable, I knew our lives had changed forever.

听起来像六十年代的电影。

It sounds like a sixties movie.

我也不知道为什么突然冒出英国口音。

I don't know why my British accent came out there either.

哦，

Oh,

哇。

wow.

我们是。

We are.

能有飞飞加入团队是我们的福气。

We are blessed to have Fei Fei on the team.

所以给她发个消息，告诉她你也有同感。

So send her a message and tell her that you feel the same.

本期圆桌会议到此结束。

That's it for Roundtable.

非常感谢大家的参与，我们下次节目再见。

Thanks so much for being with us, and please do come back again next time.