长江经济带：第1集 | 禁渔

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这是圆桌论坛。

This is Roundtable.

您正在收听圆桌论坛。

You're tuned in to Roundtable.

今天我是史蒂夫，和Fei Fei以及Yushan一起。

I'm Steve today with Fei Fei and Yushan.

接下来，如何复兴一条伟大的河流？

Coming up, how do you revive a great river?

在我们三集系列的第一集中，我们关注长江上迄今为止最大胆的举措——全面禁渔。

In the first episode of our three part series, we look at the boldest move yet on the Yangtze River, a total fishing ban.

本土鱼类正在回归。

Native fish are returning.

江豚重新出现，数十万渔民开始在陆地上开启新生活。

The finless porpoise is reappearing, and hundreds of thousands of fishermen have started new lives on land.

加入我们，一起讲述在中国最重要水道之一——长江沿岸，生态雄心与人类适应的动人故事。

Join us as we tell a story of ecological ambition and human adaptation along China's most important waterway or at least one of them, that's for sure.

我们的播客听众可以在苹果播客上搜索“Roundtable China”找到我们，也别忘了我们非常期待听到您的声音。

Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts, and don't forget that we love to hear your voice too.

请给我们发送一段语音留言，分享您对我们节目中讨论的任何话题的看法。

So send us a voice note our way with your thoughts on any of the things that we discuss here on the program.

Roundtable podcast @qq.com。

Roundtable podcast @qq.com.

再次提醒，Roundtable podcast @qq.com。

Once again, roundtable podcast at qq.com.

现在，欢迎收听我们关于长江经济带变迁故事的三部曲系列第一集。

And now, welcome to the first episode of our three part series on the changing story of the Yangtze River economic belt.

在过去十年中，这一地区完成了一项非凡的成就。

Over the past decade, this region has pulled off something remarkable.

其经济持续增长，同时转向了一项新准则：保护优先，不再进行大规模开发。

Its economy has surged even as it shifted toward a new rule of the game, protect first with no large scale development.

今天，我们从所有举措中最大胆的一项开始——十年禁渔令。

Today, we start with one of the boldest moves of all, the ten year fishing ban.

自2021年该禁令在长江干流及所有支流全面实施以来，河流已展现出明显的恢复迹象。

Since it was fully rolled out across the river's main channels and tributaries in 2021, the river has been showing real signs of recovery.

曾经罕见的江豚正在回归，本土鱼类种群也在稳步恢复。

The once rare finless porpoise is making a comeback, and native fish species are steadily returning as well.

但这个故事不仅仅关乎水和野生动物，更关乎人。

But this story is not just about water and wildlife, it's about people.

五年过去，超过23万名渔民已放下渔网，转型为河岸守护者，或进入完全不同的行业，再就业率接近惊人的100%。

Five years on, more than 230,000 fishermen have put down their nets and stepped into new roles from river stewards to workers in entirely different industries with reemployment rates close to a staggering 100%.

这条河流无论在历史上还是现代都堪称中国最重要的水道之一。

This is one of the most important waterways in China both historically and in modern times.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

Indeed.

长江发源于中国西部青海省的山区，抱歉，是在青藏高原上，然后一直流向东部。

The Yangtze River, it rises in the mountains of Qinghai province in Eastern Western China, excuse me, then on the Shizhan, Qinghai Plateau, and it flows all the way to the eastern side.

这条水道长达六千六百三十公里，最终注入上海附近的东海。

That's a waterway of six six thousand three hundred kilometers to reach the East China Sea at Shanghai.

所以，如果你把中国想象成一只巨大的公鸡，从地理上看的话

So if you imagine China as a giant rooster geographically

顺便说一下，我最近才了解到这一点。

Which, by the way, I've recently learned about.

没错。

Yep.

有人告诉我，如果你看地图，中国看起来像一只公鸡。

Somebody told me that China if you look at a map, it looks like a rooster.

我说：真的吗？

And I said, really?

于是我看了地图，发现它确实很像一只公鸡。

And I looked at a map, and I said, it really does look like a rooster.

所以，如果中国在地图上像一只公鸡，长江就像公鸡所佩戴的腰带。

So if China looks like a rooster on the map, the Yangtze River looks like the belt that the rooster would be wearing.

是的。

Yeah.

它从中国中部偏西一直流向中部偏东。

It goes directly from the Central West to the Central East.

所以，就像你所说的，史蒂夫，它就像一条腰带。

So it's basically like like like you said, Steve, it's a belt.

而且，你说得对。

And also, you are right.

历史上，长江沿岸的人们一直依靠水资源谋生。

Historically, people along the Yangtze River, they've been making a livelihood based on the water.

我记得在中文里，我们把中国南方称为‘鱼米之乡’。

And I remember in Chinese, we call the southern area in China as in the the hometown of fish and rice.

而长江提供了中国约一半的鱼类和三分之二的水稻。

And then the Yangtze River, it's it provides about half of all the fish eaten in China and two thirds of the rice.

所以，在很多人看来，它是母亲河。

So that's like in many people's idea, it's the mother river.

嗯，嗯，在另一些人看来，黄河才是母亲河。

Well, well, well, in some other people's idea, it's the it's the Yellow River that's the mother river.

但对于那些住在它旁边的人来说

But for these people that live right next to it

当然。

Sure.

它就是他们的母亲。

It's their mother.

而且，我觉得在古代中国诗歌中，当你看到一条河时，大多数情况下指的都是长江。

And also, I think in ancient Chinese poems, many times when you see a river in that language, most of the time it means the Yangtze River.

我查了一下，因为我知道从历史上看，这条河很重要，以下是我的发现。

I looked it up because I knew that historically speaking, the river was important, and this is what I found.

不要只把长江看作一条河，而要把它看作中国最初的高速公路，也许是它最重要的农田。

Think of the Yangtze not as just a river, but as China's original superhighway and maybe its most important farm.

几千年来，它运送着人民、食物和货物，将偏远的内陆与东部沿海连接起来。

For thousands of years, it has moved people, food, and goods connecting the remote interior to the Eastern Coast.

它养育了帝国，启发了诗人，并决定了战争的胜负。

It fed empires, inspired poets, and decided the fate of conflicts.

它的健康与活力一直是衡量中国实力与稳定性的直接指标，没错。

It's the health and activity that have always been a direct measure of China's strength and stability Yeah.

这相当惊人，但这也体现了这条河流在历史和现代的重要性。

Which is quite dramatic, but that shows the importance of this river historically and also in modern times.

没错。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这也让我想到了一个关于火锅起源的趣闻。

And also, that made me think of a sort of anecdote when it comes to the origin of hot pot.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道吗，重庆火锅的起源其实来自在河边工作的工人。

You know, in the city of Chongqing, the origin of hot pot actually comes from workers working along the river.

哦，他们在那里煮东西。

Oh, That on they cook things.

他们在码头工作。

They're working on the docks.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

是的。

Yeah.

他们用滚烫的汤底煮任何能弄到的食物，这就是这条河上火锅的由来。

And they start cooking whatever they have in a really hot broth, and that's what pot comes for at least on that river.

是的。

Yeah.

你看，我已经学到新东西了。

See, I've learned something already.

好的。

Alright.

好吧，这是一点关于河流的背景信息，但我这么做是为了以防我们的观众中有不太熟悉的人。

Well, that's a little bit of of background on the river, but I wanted to do that in case any of our audience members were not really familiar.

但让我们进入今天第一集的核心内容。

But let's get into kind of the the the heart of our first episode today.

嗯。

Yeah.

我们将聚焦于几年前实施的禁渔令。

We're gonna focus on the phishing ban that was put in place a few years ago.

那么，这究竟是怎么回事？当时为什么有必要这么做？

So what was that about, and why was it necessary at the time?

要理解禁渔令，我认为我们首先需要说明一下，为什么我们现在要谈论它。

To understand the fishing ban, I think we first need kinda need to mention also why we're talking about it now.

因为今年，2026年，是长江经济带启动或发起的第十周年。

It's because this year, 2026, marks the tenth year of the initiating or the launching of the Yangtze River Economic Belt.

所以这项政策是在2016年推出的。

So that one was launched back in 2016.

在过去十年里，我们在沿江发展智能基础设施和生态保护方面经历了漫长的历程。

And over the past decade, we've had such a long journey of both developing the smart infrastructure along the river and also ecological protection.

在这一领域，2020年1月1日开始实施的禁渔令是一项重大举措，五年后的今天，人们仍在谈论它，因为它为保护当地生态做出了重要贡献。

And on that realm, this fishing ban that began on 01/01/2020 was the big deal that five years on people are still talking about it because of or in in some ways, thanks to the contribution it's done to protect the local ecology.

禁渔范围最初在2020年覆盖了长江流域的32个保护区，随后在2021年扩展为为期十年的全面禁渔，涵盖长江干流、主要支流以及洞庭湖、鄱阳湖等大型湖泊。

And it was covered all the way from 2020 in 03/1932 conservative areas and it was expanded in 2021 to a full ten year ban and covering the river's main streams, major tributaries, and large lakes like the Dongting Lake and Poyang Lake.

这一长达十年的阶段旨在为长江的水生生物提供一个亟需的休养生息和繁衍周期。正如我们之前提到的，几千年来，沿江居民一直依赖长江渔业，但过度捕捞和污染已使长江生态濒临崩溃，直到人们意识到：我们必须采取禁渔措施来拯救它。

So this decade long phase is actually designed to give the river's aquatic life a much needed period to rest and reproduce because like we mentioned earlier, for thousands of years, people along the river, the Yangtze River has been have had been relying on the river and over fishery and pollution has cost the river to its bearing minimum end at at at the point when people realized that, yes, we have to start us something like a fishing ban to save us.

因此，人类在长江上的活动以及过度捕捞已经将长江推到了极限。

So the amount of human activity on the river, the amount of overfishing on the river had just pushed it to its limits.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yes.

因为人们一想到要在如此重要的水道上完全禁渔十年，就觉得这非常大胆。

Because when they think about, you know, just banning fishing altogether on such important waterway for a period of ten years is very, very bold.

但这也是必要的，因为首先，就渔业资源而言，长江曾经占中国淡水渔业总量的60%以上。

But it's also necessary simply because, first of all, when it comes to fishery resources, the Yangtze River once accounted for over 60% of China's freshwater total.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这种下降从上世纪八十年代开始急剧加剧。

And that had started to drastically decline, I think starting in nineteen eighties.

几十年来，这种下降趋势持续不断。

And over the decades, the decline just continued.

长江流域的野生鱼类年捕捞量从1954年的40多万吨，下降到2020年禁渔开始时的不足10万吨。

Annual wild fish catches in the Yangtze River Basin fell from over 400,000 tons in 1954 to less than one hundred one hundred thousand tons around 2020 when the ban started.

至于曾经常见的四种中国主要经济鱼类——中国人喜爱的不同鱼类，其鱼苗数量从1965年的1290亿下降到2021年的仅几十亿。

And the when it comes to, you know, the once common four major Chinese carbs, different carbs, fish that Chinese people love, saw their fry number plunge from 129,000,000,000 in 1965 to just a few billion in 2021.

因此，河里的鱼越来越少，到了这个时候，采取行动势在必行。

So fewer and fewer fishes in the river is becoming necessary to do something about it at that point.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，行动不仅仅是一个建议。

I mean, you I guess action, it wasn't just recommended.

这是绝对必要的。

It was absolutely necessary.

是的。

Yes.

而且，许多物种已经降至功能性灭绝的水平，意味着这些物种的个体数量太少，无法在生态系统中发挥其应有的功能。

And also, many species were already down to a functional extinct level, meaning that there are too few members of these various species to perform its function in the ecology, in the ecosystem.

所以，尽管其他物种数量急剧下降，大家都很担忧，但还有一个重大问题最终必须面对，那就是渔民的问题。

So while others have sharply declined and everybody's like worrying, there's one big question that people eventually will have to face that is for the fishermen.

他们每年捕到的鱼越来越小。

They are catching smaller fish year year by year.

如果所有鱼类都消失了，或者开始出现越来越年轻、体型越来越小的趋势，那么如果我们不采取行动，渔民在未来十年如何生存？

And if all the fish disappear or start to show this trend of younger and smaller coming in Asian size, then what how can the fishermen survive in the in the next ten years if we don't do something?

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以这就是当初实施禁渔令的原因。

So that's where that's where this fishing ban came into place in the first place.

此外，禁渔令也是为了保护中华鲟和长江江豚等濒危物种，我们常称它为长江江豚。

Also, it was to protect endangered species such as the Chinese sturgeon and the Yangtze finless porpoise or we we often call it the Yangtze River dolphin.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

它有着圆圆的脑袋，看起来非常可爱，似乎总是带着微笑。

It's a round head, very cute looking dolphin who always it seems like always have a smile

在脸上。

on the face.

人们也称它为微笑天使。

People call it the smiling angels as well.

嗯。

Yeah.

我之前不太了解这种动物，后来查了一些视频，没错，它是一种无鳍海豚，脸上总是带着一副永恒的笑容。

I wasn't familiar with this animal and I looked up some videos and yeah, it's a it looks like a it is a finless dolphin and it's got this permagrin on its face.

是的。

Yes.

林？

Rin?

嗯。

Yeah.

它脸上总是带着一种永久的、仿佛永远开心的笑容，真的太可爱了。

It's got this permanent, like, semi happy smile on its face, and it's just it's just so cute.

好吧。

Okay.

所以这就是背景情况。

So that's kind of the background.

但目前渔业禁令的进展如何？我们取得了哪些成果？

But where where are we now with the fishing ban, and and what have we achieved here?

是的。

Yeah.

根据2024年的最新数据，已记录到193种鱼类，而2020年初仅为168种，这表明鱼类种群已出现明显恢复。

That's according to latest data as of 2024, a 193 fish species have already been recorded, and that's compared with a 168 in early twenty twenty, meaning that we already see tangible recovery of fish population.

此外，在2021年至2024年期间，监测团队还发现了344种本土鱼类，比禁渔前增加了36种。

And also between 2021 and twenty twenty twenty four, monitoring teams, they also identified a total of 344 native fish species, which was an increase of 36 species compared to to the pre ban period.

那么，你们如何追踪鱼类重返像长江这样广阔河流的过程呢？

So how do you actually track the return of the fish to a river as vast as the Yangtze River?

长江水产研究所副研究员高磊解释了

Gao Lei, an associate researcher at the Yangtze River Fisheries Research Institute explains the

我们通过评估

We assess

鱼类多样性，考察物种、种类、数量和体型，以判断环境状况是否改善。

fish diversity by examining species, variety, abundance, and size to determine whether conditions are improving.

我们还通过追踪长江中鱼类种群的变化，特别关注体型更小、年龄更年轻的鱼类趋势是否有所缓解。

We also track changes in fish populations with a particular focus on whether the trend towards smaller, younger fish in the Yangtze River is easing.

当前监测显示，四大经济鱼类的种群数量已增至禁渔前的六倍以上，而中华鲟的数量更是飙升至禁渔前的九倍多。

Current monitoring shows that populations of the four major carbs have increased to more than six times their pre ban levels, while the number of Chinese sturgeon has surged to more than nine times its pre ban level.

非常好。

Very good.

经济鱼类和中华鲟的数量都有所增加。

Increased levels for the carbs and for the sturgeon too.

是的。

Yeah.

中华鲟非常有趣，也被称为‘水中的熊猫’。

The Chinese sturgeon, which is very interesting, is called also called the panda of the water.

熊猫。

The panda.

是的。

Yeah.

它基本上是长江流域水生生物的象征性物种。

It's basically an emblematic species of aquatic life in the Rangta River.

我认为在1983年，中国禁止了中华鲟的商业捕捞，因为很多人认为它非常美味。

And I think in 1983, China banned the commercial fishing of the Chinese sturgeon because according to a lot of people, it's very delicious as well.

因此，中国在1988年禁止了中华鲟的商业捕捞，并将其列为国家一级重点保护野生动物。

But so that's why it banned the commercial fishing of it and listed it as a national level key protected wildlife species in 1988.

那江豚呢？

What about the the finless porpoise?

那它的故事是怎样的？

What was the story there?

我猜是因为鱼类数量锐减，导致江豚、海豚没有东西可吃。

I'm guessing it was because the fish numbers were so depleted that the porpoise, the dolphin, didn't have anything to eat.

没错。

Exactly.

许多海豚死后尸体浮出水面，研究人员解剖后发现它们的胃里空空如也。

Many of those dolphins, after their corpse show up above the water and the researchers study their their corpse, they found nothing in their stomachs.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

意思是它们因缺乏食物而饿死。

Meaning that they were starved to were

因为没有食物而死亡。

dying because they didn't have food.

当我年轻的时候，我们从小就被教导，必须尽一切努力拯救长江，因为那里有这些精灵、这些天使，它们在河里微笑，却正以极快的速度死去。

And when my generation was very young, we were taught ever since we were kids that we need to do whatever we can to save the Yangtze River because of these spirits, these angels, smiling angels in in the in the river and they're dying like, at a very fast pace.

但最近，根据每五年在长江流域进行的全面调查，其种群数量显示出稳步回升的趋势，2022年江豚数量达到1249头，比2017年增加了237头。

But recently, its population has shown that now it's on back on a steady upward trend and that's according to a basin wide survey that's carried out every five years along along the Yangtze River that the dolphin's population reached 1,249 in 2022, which is an increase of 237 compared with 2017.

这是个好消息。

That's a good news.

是的。

Yeah.

更重要的是，这标志着一个转折点——自20世纪90年代初开始全面记录以来，截至2022年，长江江豚的种群数量首次停止下降并开始恢复。

And more importantly, this marked a turning point that since comprehensive records began in the early nineteen nineties, it was by 2022, I mean, it was the first time that the Yancefiendlis prop Propolis population stopped declining and began to recover.

这对于一种我们从小被教导终将从地球上消失的稀有物种来说，真是个好消息。

And that's a really good news for a rare species that we were taught that's going to disappear from this earth someday in the future.

近年来，我们还开始看到许多照片，都是那些摄影爱好者拍下的，他们发现这些海豚跃出水面，尽情嬉戏。

And also in recent years, we start to see a lot of photos, you know, just taken by those photography junkie that they're starting to see these dolphins jumping out of the water and just enjoying themselves.

因为这种江豚非常友善，也很好奇。

Because when it comes to this finless porpoise, they're very friendly to humans and they're very curious animals.

它们死亡的原因之一，不仅是因为食物减少和长江水质恶化，还因为它们对船只、座椅等东西非常好奇。

And the reason One of the reasons, not only because of less food and, you know, worse water quality of the Yangtze River that they are dying, and also because they're just very curious when they see a boat, when they see a seat.

容易受伤。

Easily injured.

是的。

Yeah.

它们想靠近看看。

They want to get close and have a look.

而常常的情况是，它们会被这些机械装置缠住、受伤，甚至死亡。

And often the case is that they're caught, injured, or even killed by these machineries.

这也是为什么必须停止并减少沿河的人类活动，以整体保护这些濒危动物的原因之一。

And that's one of the also one of the reasons why it's very necessary to stop and reduce human activities along the river to protect these endangered animals altogether.

现在，那些在河边打渔的渔民，当这项禁令实施时，他们的生活显然被彻底打乱了。

Now the fishermen who worked along the river, this when this ban was put into effect, obviously, this completely upended their lives.

嗯。

Mhmm.

那么，他们后来做了什么？禁令之后他们是如何谋生的？

So what did they do, or how did they make a living following that?

他们的转型过程是怎样的？

What was the transition process like for them?

嗯。

Yeah.

许多渔民从祖辈起就开始打渔了。

Many of the fishermen, they started working as a fisherman since generations ago.

他们一辈子都生活在这里。

They've been there for their whole life.

所以，要说服他们转行，你至少需要给予他们希望和支持，以确保过渡平稳。

So to persuade them to change their career, you kinda need to give them hope and support at least for a smooth transition first.

因此，早在2021年，政府就拨款约2700亿元人民币（约合37亿美元），用于支持那些放弃在长江使用渔网和渔船的渔民。

So back in 2021, the government channeled approximately 27,000,000,000 yuan, and that's roughly 3,700,000,000.0 US dollars to support fishermen after they gave up using nets and boats on the Yangtze River.

一些地方政府甚至在2021年之前就开始行动了。

Some local governments started even before 2021.

自2019年和2020年起，长江沿岸的一些县市就已经开始实施相关措施。

Since 2019 and 2020, there are already some some of the counties and cities along the Yangtze River.

我记得在中国东部江苏省的新闻中看到，渔民们被劝导并鼓励上交渔网和渔业工具，以换取补贴和资金。

I remember seeing news in Eastern China's Jiangsu Province of how the fishermen were already advised and encouraged to submit their nets and and fisher fishery tools in exchange for subsidies and founds.

不过，他们之后从事了什么工作呢？

So what what did they do for work afterwards, though?

他们从事了什么样的职业？或者进入了哪个行业？

What what type of career did they have or what type of industry did they work in?

有些人留在了水产养殖行业，通过在内陆养殖场进行养殖来谋生。

Some of them stayed in the aqua aquaculture businesses by raising it from inland farm fishing farms.

有些人，我看到新闻说，他们之后自己创业并开始四处奔波。

Some, I read the news, they started their own businesses afterwards and start to move around.

有些人离开了长江流域。

Some left the Yangtze River region.

有些人留了下来，开始务农，种植柑橘或香橼树，我猜这应该是在中国西南部的四川省，那里柑橘非常受欢迎。

Some stayed and start to go farming and grew tangerine or citron trees locally, and I would assume that's in Southwest China, Sichuan Province where the tangerine is really popular.

但初衷是通过不同的社会保障服务、经济支持，甚至培训，为他们提供足够的资源或安全网，这非常重要，因为如果你要彻底改变一个人的生活，让他们去做别的事情，那么为他们提供相关培训是必要的。

But the idea was to provide them with enough resources or enough of a safety net through different social security services or or financial support or perhaps even training as well, which would be really important because if you're gonna upend someone's life and say, now you have to do something else, providing training for that something else would be necessary.

但目标应该是让这些人留在社区里，而不是强迫他们离开。

But the idea would be to keep the people in the community and not force them.

我的意思其实是迁移率的问题。

I mean, displacement rate, really, is what I'm saying.

是的。

Yeah.

不要让人们流离失所，把他们赶出社区，强迫他们去别处找工作。

Not displace people and and push them out of the community and force them to move to find work elsewhere.

是的。

Yeah.

自实施禁渔令以来，超过23万名渔民已获得当地政府提供的社会保障、经济支持和职业培训。

And ever since the implementation of the fishing ban, over 230,000 fishermen have received social security services and financial support and also vocational training from the local government.

与此同时，沿江具备就业能力和就业意愿的15.5万名渔民已找到新的收入来源，其中许多人已取得一定成功，转型为地方支柱产业，而不再仅仅依赖渔业。

Meanwhile, a 155,000 fishermen with employment capacity and willingness to work along the river have already found new income sources, many of which had already achieved sort of a success that move on to become local pillar industry instead of just focusing on fishery alone like they used to.

近年来，河流中非法捕捞的报告数量也下降了20%，因为你可以想象，某种程度上这完全可以理解——这些渔民最初被要求停止捕鱼时，有些人可能会在夜间偷偷继续捕鱼。

And the number of reports of illegal fishing in the river also decreased by 20% in recent years because you can just imagine it's totally understandable in some way, I guess, that these people after first being told that they need to stop, some of them will try to, you know, maybe fishing go fish still go fishing in in the night times.

但现在，许多渔民已经意识到保护水资源和家乡的重要性。

But now with a lot of the fishermen realizing and having this awareness of the importance of protecting the water, their hometown.

这是一项昂贵的工程。

That's an ex it's an it's an expensive project, though.

资金从哪里来？

Where'd the money come from?

首先，资金部分来自地方财政预算。

Well, the money, first of all, that can comes from partially from the local budgets.

此外，中央政府也会承担另一部分费用。

And also, the central government will cover part another part of that.

我认为这很有趣，这些资金用于生活补助、社会保障和职业培训，而且他们还每年向每艘渔船提供约22万元的补贴。

And I think that's very interesting that these fundings for living allowances, for Social Security, for job trainings, and also, they are also giving subsidies for about 220,000 yuan per boat per year to this fisherman.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因此，这显然涉及多种方式，有时是一次性支付，有时是过渡性补贴。

So that definitely comes down with a mix of sometimes one time payment like this or a transitional subsidies.

payouts 会因地区而异。

The the payouts would vary from place to place.

对。

Correct.

我猜是这样。

I'm guessing.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

因此，各地城市和村庄出台了各自的政策，帮助渔民度过这一过渡时期。

So local cities and villages, they rolled out their own policies to help the fishermen through this transitional time and and this trans transitional period.

这种地方支持绝对是必要的。

This would be absolutely necessary to have that local support.

是的。

Yeah.

一些前渔民每天早上还会来到长江岸边。

And some of these former fishermen also head to the banks of the Yangtze River almost every morning.

但他们不再去捕鱼，而是打捞水中的垃圾和杂物。

But instead of going to fishing, they're now picking up trash and debris in the water.

他们穿上志愿者背心，正如新闻报道中所见，带着清洁工具，如今保护着曾经养活他们家庭的同一条河流。

They dress up in volunteer vests, you know, as you can tell from the news reports and carry cleaning tools and are now protecting the same river they once fed their families previously.

所以，前渔民们并没有离开这条河。

So former fishermen, they didn't just leave the river.

他们成为了这条河的守护者。

They became its protectors.

这位是周忠良，一位来自中国东部江苏省 Zhengjiang 市的第三代前渔民，现在他是浙江一个鱼类保护团队的成员。

So this is Zhou Zhong Liang, a former third generation fisherman who's now part of a fish protection team in Zhejiang province in me, in Zhengjiang, the city from Jiangsu province in in Eastern China.

我17岁开始捕鱼，一直干到2019年，那时我们被要求停止捕鱼。

I started fishing when I was 17 and kept going until 2019 when we were requested to stop.

政府以市场价值收购了我们的渔船、渔网和设备，并提供了补贴。

The government bought our boats, nets and equipment at market value, and gave us subsidies.

现在，我们在和平区组建了一支渔业保护队。

Now, we have formed a fishery protection team in Heping District.

这是一份公益工作，我们通过了考试招聘流程。

It's a public welfare job, and we went through an exam based recruitment process.

我们一共有九个人。

There are nine of us.

当地政府积极鼓励渔民停捕，主动了解我们的需求并提供支持。

The local authorities actively encouraged fishermen to stop fishing, reached out to understand our needs, and offered support.

这对我们帮助巨大。

This has been a huge help for us.

这意味着有些人成为了河流巡逻员。

So that means that some people have become river patrollers.

有些人甚至把这片区域变成了一种生态村。

Some people it's kind of turned the area into an eco village of sorts.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你看过关于乔先生的报道，就会发现他鼻子上有一道疤痕。

And if you've seen the report with mister Joe, you can see there's a scar on his nose, actually.

他解释说，这是在赶去阻止非法捕鱼时受的伤。

He explains that he got this injury while rushing to stop illegal fishing.

真的吗？

Oh, really?

有一次，鱼竿上的钩子甩到了他的脸上，割伤了他的鼻子。

And there's a hook from the fish pole that kind of swung to his face and cut his nose from one time.

天啊

Goodness

我。

me.

是的。

Yeah.

他提到的那支渔业保护队成立于2021年，现在全天候沿河巡逻，这是保护河流、防止非法捕鱼的绝佳方式。

That team he mentioned, the fishery protection team, was formed in 2021, and they now operates twenty four seven patrol along the river, which is such a good way to protect the river and also, you know, from from the illegal fishing.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，对于像这样拥有数百万、成千上万条支流和不同水道的大河来说，这种保护方式非常合理。

And I think it makes perfect sense when it comes to protection of places like a large river with millions and hundreds and thousands probably of tribunaries and different waterways.

让社区参与并提高他们的意识非常重要，因为

It's very important to have the communities engaged and have their awareness because

而且要上船。

And onboard.

是的。

Yes.

而且当涉及更多地点、更多关于江豚的报告时，会有游客来到这些村庄。

And also they benefit when it comes to, for example, with more sites, more reports of the Finnish point porpoise along the river, there are travelers coming to these villages.

哦。

Oh.

江豚旅游。

Porpoise tourism.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，这是他们收入的另一个来源。

And so that's another channel where their income can come from.

此外，在生态旅游方面，沿河的许多村庄正逐渐成为旅游景点，能够产生收入。

And they are also when it comes to ecotourism, a lot of these villages along the river are becoming a tourism site and can generate income.

例如，在高峰期，江西省开设了渔民宴民宿。

And for example, at peak times is in Jiangxi province, They opened fisherman feast guesthouse.

在高峰期，该地区一天内可接待超过5000名游客。

And at peak times, the area can receive more than 5,000 visitors in a single day.

哇。

Wow.

真的很受欢迎。

Really popular.

我们如何维持这种状态？

How do we keep this going?

我的意思是，他们迄今为止所做的一切真的令人印象深刻。

I mean, what they've done so far is really impressive.

但从长远来看，他们如何继续优先考虑生态，而非工业或经济增长，或者你怎么说都行？

But in the long run, how can they continue to prioritize ecology over industry or economic growth or however you wanna however you wanna put it?

在那里找到平衡容易吗？

Is it easy to find a balance there?

我们仍然面临很多挑战。

Well, we still face a lot of challenge.

这毫无疑问，因为我们提到已经有36种本土鱼类得到恢复，但仍有大量物种已经消失。

That is for sure because we said there's been 36 native fish species that's been recovered, but there are still many that's lost.

经过十年的休养，四大主要鱼类——这些在中国餐桌上最常见的鱼种——的幼苗数量有望恢复到200亿至300亿尾，约为20世纪60年代水平的30%。

And after a decade of rest, sprawling of the four major carbs, which are the main the leading species that's served on the Chinese table as fish dishes, could rebound to twenty to thirty billion fry, about 30% of the nineteen sixties level.

这是专家们的估算。

And this is estimate estimation from the experts.

因此，我们现在需要关注的是继续坚持我们已经开始的工作。

So what we kinda need to focus at this point is to keep up with what we've started.

我们已经走完了十年旅程的五年，正处在一个相对良好的起步阶段。

We've already reached five years on on that ten years journey, and we're hitting a relatively good beginning point.

同时，我们仍需依靠这些前渔民，信任他们做好工作，制止非法捕捞。

And also in the meantime, we kinda still need to rely on these fish former fishermen to trust them to do a good job to stop illegal fishing that's yeah.

是的，确实如此。

Still Yeah.

尽管我们提到在恢复许多物种方面取得了一些成功，但这只是起点，正如玉山所说。

Were still even though we mentioned we see some of the success when it comes to recover a lot of these species, it's just the starting point as Yushan mentioned.

以江豚为例，目前野外已有1200头。

When it comes to, for example, the Phyllis porpoise, we now have 1,200 of them in the wild.

但相比之下，这个数量仍然很少，比如与大熊猫相比。

But put to put that into perspective, it's still smaller number when I compare to, for example, pandas.

我们现在有1900只野生大熊猫。

We have 1,900 wild pandas now.

因此，江豚在某种程度上甚至比大熊猫还要稀少。

So this fitness purpose on some level is even rarer than pandas.

这并不意味着我们已经取得了成功。

So that doesn't mean we've got success.

这并不意味着我们可以坐下来放松。

That means we can sit back and relax.

我们还需要做更多的工作。

There's just more need to be done.

而且我认为我们还需要持续加强法律和监管保护，没错。

And I think also we need continuing to build stronger legal and regulatory protection Right.

为了这一点。

For this.

例如，我们有长江保护法。

For example, we have the Yangtze River Protection Law.

我们还有渔业法。

We we have the fishery law.

我们还有省市级政府的法规来加强生态保护、打击非法捕捞，这些都需要继续推进。

We have provincial and municipal governments regulations to strengthen this you can you know, ecological protection and also tackling illegal fishing, and that just need to continue.

还要让公众意识到，别去捕鱼，尤其是大规模捕捞的时候。

And may let people be aware of, you know, just don't go fishing, especially when it comes to large quantities.

我也喜欢江豚旅游这个想法，因为确实如此。

I like the idea of the the porpoise tourism too because it yeah.

数量方面是不错的。

The numbers are it's good.

它们正在恢复，但在整体规模上仍然很低。

They're they're rebounding, but it's still quite low in the grand scheme of things.

但我认为旅游业很好，因为人们去那里拍照，发到社交媒体上，这件事就变得更受关注了。

But the reason I see tourism is good, people go there, they take pictures, they post on their socials, it becomes more of an issue.

嗯。

Mhmm.

公众意识增强了，保护它们也成为了国家整体的更高优先事项。

Public awareness becomes stronger, and protecting them becomes more of a priority for the country as a whole.

是的。

Yes.

十年前，这个项目的整体原则就是大保护，而不是大开发。

Since ten years ago, the whole principle of this project is to is is about big protection, not big development.

所以十年前优先事项就已经明确了，未来几年我们也会看到这种趋势持续下去。

So the priority is clear ever since ten years ago, and we'll see that continue to spin on in the next few years.

快速问一下，还有其他为保护生态所采取的措施吗？

Just very quickly, anything else that's been done to preserve the ecology?

他们在污染控制方面也做了很多工作。

They've done a lot for pollution control too.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

当局发起了一场针对工业污染的战争，关闭、搬迁或改造了沿河近一万家化工企业。

Authorities launched what you can call a war on industrial pollution by closing, moving, transforming nearly 10,000 chemical enterprises along the river.

他们还规范了二十多万个排污口以修复河流，并实施了先进的监测系统，以改善河流水质。

And they also regulated more than 200,000 sewage outlets to heal the river, and they also implemented advanced monitoring and also to to to improve the water quality in the river.

对此，江豚和鱼类都说谢谢。

And to that, the porpoises and the fishies say thank you.

今天的圆桌讨论就到这里。

And that will do it for today's roundtable.

非常感谢大家今天参与。

Thanks very much for being with us today.

感谢玉山和Fei Fei。

Thanks to Yushan and Fei Fei.

我是Steve。

I'm Steve.

祝你愉快，下次请一定再来。

Have a good one, and please do come back next time.