你的时间 vs 公司时钟

讨论让世界持续运转。

Discussion keeps the world turning.

这就是圆桌会。

Is Roundtable.

从北京的心脏到全球舞台的边缘，你就在圆桌会。

From the heart of Beijing to the edges of the global stage, you are at Roundtable.

我是林业火。

I'm Yeoho Lin.

你听说过微调工作模式吗？

Have you ever heard of micro shifting?

现在有些人称它为工作的未来，但并不是每个人都能被邀请进入这个未来。

Now some people describe it as the future of work, but not everyone is invited to that future.

当数字专业人士推动将一天拆分为灵活的工作片段时，数以百万计的劳动者仍被束缚在固定的工作地点、固定的工作时间和固定的薪酬结构中。

While digital professionals push for the reshaping of their days into flexible bursts, millions of workers remain tied to fixed locations, fixed hours, and fixed pay structures.

你如何看待工作的未来？

How do you envision the future of work?

在你看来，微调工作制的优缺点是什么？

What are the pros and cons in your opinion about micro shifting?

敬请关注，马上揭晓。

Stay tuned and find out.

今天的节目，我邀请到了邢宇和史蒂夫·哈瑟利。

For today's show, I'm joined by Xingyu and Steve Hatherley.

请坐下来，一起加入讨论。

Pull up a chair, and now join the conversation.

说实话。

Let's be honest.

传统的朝九晚五正越来越像工业革命的遗留物，而大家都在摸索新的排班方式。

The old nine two five is starting to look like a leftover from the industrial revolution while everyone is trying to figure out a new way to arrange their shifts.

目前最受欢迎的一种被称为微调工作制。

So now the most popular one is called micro shifting.

人们不再进行一整段连续的工作日，而是把工作拆分成多个短暂、不连续的时段，通常为四十五到九十分钟，然后离开去处理杂事、锻炼或照顾孩子，再重新投入工作。

Instead of one long continuous workday, people are breaking work into short, non continuous bursts, usually forty five to ninety minutes, then stepping away for errands, workouts, or childcare before jumping back in.

从上海的生育友好帖子，到Z世代员工同时打多份零工，信息非常明确。

From fertility friendly posts in Shanghai to Gen Z workers juggling multiple side hustles, the message is very clear.

时间自主权正成为员工不可妥协的需求，并正在重塑全球劳动力市场。

Time autonomy is becoming nonnegotiable for employees, and it's reshaping labor markets worldwide.

随着企业迈向这种非线性的未来，职业合同本身正在被重写。

As companies move toward this nonlinear future, the professional contract itself is being rewritten.

那么，这对我们的日常职场生活意味着什么？微调工作制真的能改善工作与生活的平衡吗？

So what does this mean for our everyday working lives, and does micro shifting really improve work life balance?

或者对某些人来说，它是否模糊了工作与生活的界限，直至完全消失？

Or maybe to some people, does it blur the line between work and life until there's no boundary left at all?

为了回答所有这些难以回答的问题，我们先来看看微调工作制这个概念本身，它究竟是什么。

To answer all these really hard to answer questions, let's first take a look at micro shifting the concept itself and exactly what it is.

如果你正在遵循微调工作制的时间安排，你该如何规划你的工作日？

And if you are following a micro shifting kind of schedule, what are you supposed to arrange your workday?

是的。

Yeah.

这基本上是一种极端形式的混合办公。

So this is basically an extreme form of hybrid working.

正如你所说，它把你的一天切割成这些短暂、不连续的片段，如果你愿意用这个词的话。

And as you said, it cuts your day into these short, non continuous bursts, if you could use that word.

很好。

That's great.

对。

Yeah.

高度专注的工作，这一点我想稍后再跟你深入探讨。

Of focused really focused labor, and that's a point that I wanna come back to you in just a sec.

但这种模式非常独特，我认为我们之前从未听说过这样的概念。

But it's very unique, and it's a concept that I don't think we've heard about before.

一个微工作爆发的样子，就是工作四十五到九十分钟后，你离开去做别的事。

So what a microburst of work looks like is forty five to ninety minutes of work before you leave and go do something.

我们会把那个‘别的事’只留几分钟，但你的工作时间是四十五到九十分钟。

We'll we'll leave that something for just a few minutes, but your working time is forty five to ninety minutes.

这真正远离了传统的办公时间，转向了一种完全围绕员工生活安排的作息模式。

This is a real move away from your traditional office hours and this is a move toward a schedule that is structured entirely around the life of the employee.

所以我认为，微调工作模式将这种灵活性提升到了一个新的水平，让你的工作适应生活方式。

So I guess micro shifting is bringing that kind of flexibility to the next level to adjust your work according to your lifestyle.

比如对于早起的人，他们可能喜欢在早上七点到九点之间工作，然后去办些杂事、购物，再回来？

Like for these early birds, they might they might like to work between like seven to 9AM, then they can go to run some of their errands and do some maybe shopping and then come back in new shopping?

抱歉。

Sorry.

我需要一件新衬衫。

I need a new shirt.

而且

And

然后你下午再回来，再工作一个半小时。

then you come back in the afternoon and work for another one and a half hours.

是的。

Yes.

然后也许晚饭后，你还可以晚上工作。

And then maybe after dinner, you can also work at night.

这种做法把工作日切割成了不同的时间段。

That kind of like cuts the workday into different blocks.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我认为这实际上是承认了如今员工首先在寻找一种不同的工作方式，其次，人们都有自己需要照顾的生活。

I mean, I think this is just in recognition that these days, employees are number one, looking for a different style of work, and number two, people have their own lives that they need to take care of.

我不认为这关乎，你知道的，你举了去购物的例子，这没错，但同时我认为这更多是关于，如果你有孩子，早上需要送他们上学，然后可能你忘了给他们带午餐盒，所以你得回家取，接着你还要去银行交账单，然后还得做其他事情。

I don't think it's about, you know, you bring up the example of going shopping, which is fair, but at the same time, I think it's more about, you know, if you have kids and you need to drop them off at school in the morning, and then maybe you forgot, I don't know, to bring them their lunchbox, so you have to go home and get that, and then you have to go to the bank to pay the bills, and then you have to do other things.

然后你再回来工作一个半小时。

Then you come back to work for another now hour and a half.

我认为当你这么说时，对我来说关键词是‘不得不’。

And I think when you say that, the keyword to me is have to.

你有很多不得不做的事情，这些事把工作时间切割成了小块。

You have a lot of things that you have to do that that have working hours into little pieces.

并不是说把这些零碎的时间段用来工作对每个人都有好处。

It's not that working in these little fragmented time slot is beneficial necessarily to everybody.

就像史蒂夫说的，这种安排的设计是以员工的生活为中心，而不是以工作本身为中心。

It's just like Steve has said, the design of it is centering the life of the employee rather the work itself.

我认为这在一定程度上解释了为什么它在人们中颇受欢迎。

And I think that is partly why it's kind of popular among people.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这又是一种完全不同的工作方式。

And and it's a again, it's a completely different style.

你可能会在早上九点第一次到办公室，然后当天最后一次离开办公室是在晚上十点或十一点。

So you might first arrive at the office at 9AM in the morning and then leave the office for the last time during that day at 10PM, 11PM at night.

这只是允许人们按照自己的方式完成工作，当然，他们仍然需要履行工作职责。

It's just allowing people to do their work as they see fit, and of course, they still have to take care of their work responsibilities.

这并不是一种休假。

It's not like this is a vacation.

你仍然需要完成所有该做的事情，但你可以把自己的生活融入到这个工作日中。

You still have to do all the things that you do, but you can mix in your own life into that workday.

你提到‘必须’这个词很重要，但我会说‘必须’是一个相对的概念，因为‘必须’不仅指去银行或完成当天的其他责任，也包括你个人的需求。

Now you said have to is an important term, but I would say have to is a relative term because have to doesn't just mean going to the bank or doing whatever responsibilities you have during that day, but have to can apply to your own personal needs too.

也许因为家里有孩子等原因，你晚上根本不可能去健身房，而把锻炼安排在下午1点到2点之间，对你的人生会更好。

Maybe going to the gym is impossible for you at nighttime with your schedule because of the kids at home or something like that, and being able to fit that into maybe a 1PM to 2PM slot is much better for your life.

这也适用于‘必须’这一方面。

That would apply to the have to aspect as well.

这更加个性化了。

It's just more personal.

所以本质上，你是通过把个人事务或个人需求融入工作日来延长工作时间。

So it's basically stretching your workday by fitting your personal errands or personal needs into it.

是的。

Yeah.

我研究过一些极端案例。

And I've looked looked at some of the extreme cases.

一位首席执行官描述了自己连续两个月每天工作24小时，之后用了两周时间放慢节奏，恢复并训练铁人三项。

So one CEO describes working twenty four seven for two months straight and it was followed by two weeks in a lower gear to recover and train for triathlons.

嗯。

Mhmm.

其他人可能从早上7点工作到午夜，但在一天中穿插长时间的休息，比如进行体育活动或处理个人事务。

And others might work from 7AM, so that's very early in the morning until midnight, but pepper the day with long breaks for, like, sports or personal errands.

是的。

Yeah.

在我们讨论是否喜欢这种方式之前，先来看看普遍的共识是什么。

Now before we get to whether we would enjoy this or not, let's see what the general consensus is.

2025年，Owl Labs进行了一项研究。

There was an Owl Labs study done in 2025.

这项研究名为《混合工作状态报告》。

It was called the state of hybrid work report.

他们的发现如下。

This is what they found.

65%的办公室员工希望拥有更多的时间安排灵活性。

65% of office workers want more schedule flexibility.

顺便说一下，他们调查了美国2000名全职员工。

They asked 2,000 full time workers in America, by the way.

所以这是来自一项研究的发现。

So that's what they found from one study.

而在另一项名为《2025年美国大转型》的调查中，显示微调工作模式正在知识工作之外获得越来越多的关注。

Then in another survey called the big shift US 2025, it showed that micro shifting is gaining traction beyond knowledge work.

知识工作指的是涉及思考、分析、创造或沟通等工作，比如这些类型。

Knowledge work would be jobs that involve thinking or analyzing or creating or communicating, things like that.

这种模式正超越知识型岗位，渗透到Z世代员工服务行业，他们非常接受通过缩短班次来平衡学业需求的做法。

So it's moving beyond those jobs with Gen z employees, in service industries, and they're really embracing this idea of shorter shifts to balance their education needs.

他们可能会在晚上上课，类似这样的安排。

They might take a class in the evening, something like that.

他们可能同时打多份工，对吧？因为现在流行多线程打拼。

They might have multiple jobs, right, because of the state hustles.

是的

Yeah.

因为经济状况如此。

Because of the state of the economy.

所以如果你能在下午中间挤出一个兼职班次，夹在你做的其他工作之间，如果你有这种灵活性，这会对很多人有很大帮助。

So if you can squeeze in a part time shift in the middle of the afternoon, which is kind of sandwiched in between the other job that you're doing, if you have the flexibility to do that, that helps a lot of people out.

说实话，我对这一点从员工、公司以及客户的角度都有很多疑问。

To be honest, I have a lot of questions about this from the employee's perspective, from the company's perspective, and also from those clients' perspective.

当我们谈到客户时，是的，如果你在服务业工作，你的客户就是那些在购物中心购物或来剪头发的人，结果却发现，哦，我的理发师还没到那四十五到九十分钟的服务时间。

When we talk about clients, yes, if you work in service industry, your client would be those who are shopping in the center or who are coming here and taking a haircut only to find that, oh, it's not that forty five to ninety minutes for my hairdresser just yet.

不管怎样，这是个笑话。

Anyways, that's a joke.

但我本来想说的是，这对不同的人可能会有不同的结果，但在人们承担多重任务、多重角色的时代，这绝对值得尝试。

But I was trying to say that there are many it might turn out for different people in different ways, but it definitely is a worthwhile trying in the era of multiple tasks, multiple roles for people.

你得在家当妈妈。

You have to be the mom at home.

你必须在公司里扮演员工的角色。

You have to be the employee at your company.

你可能还需要在社区中担任志愿者，以完成某些任务。

You also might have to be the volunteer in the community because of certain tasks.

这并不是我们第一次尝试这样的做法。

And this is not the first time we try something.

我们曾经试过混合工作制。

We try the hybrid working schedule.

例如，四天工作制在‘每周四天工作’中已经流行了很长时间。

For example, the four day workday has been popular for quite a long time in Four day a workweek.

很多人表示赞同。

Lot of Yeah.

每周四天工作制。

Four day workweek.

是的。

Yes.

谢谢。

Thank you.

在世界不同地区。

In in different places in the world.

是的。

Yes.

实际上，一些研究全球四天工作制试验的学者表示，这不仅可行，而且生产力甚至可能高于传统的朝九晚五工作安排。

And actually, some scholars who are studying global four day work week trials say that it's not only possible but productivity can actually be higher than usual nine to five schedules.

根据四天工作制全球组织发布的数据，四天工作制的试验已经在全球六大洲、20个国家和500多家公司中开展。

So according to the data released by four day week global, it says the trials of the four day work week have already taken place across six continents in 20 countries and in more than 500 companies.

因此，它几乎涵盖了所有行业。

So it covers almost like every industry.

最大的试验是在英国进行的。

And the largest trial was conducted in The UK.

调查显示，六个月后，92%的参与公司选择继续实行四天工作制。

And the survey says that after six months, 92% of participating companies chose to keep the four day work week.

在试验期间，平均每家公司的年收入增长了35%。

And during the trial, the average company revenue rose by 35% year on years.

所以我认为，我们不仅看到了这些试验带来的收入增长，生产力也有所提升。

So I think we are not seeing just the revenue gained during these trials, but also I think productivity is also has also risen.

这个实验还有另一个重要的数据。

Here's another important stat from that particular experiment.

是的，收入增长了35%，但员工流失率下降了57%。

So, yeah, it it increased revenue by 35%, but employee turnover decreased by 57%.

哦。

Oh.

57%。

57%.

这很显著。

That's significant.

这发生在英国，但他们在美洲、加拿大、爱尔兰和葡萄牙也看到了类似趋势，这些国家的公司同样报告了收入增长。

And that was in The UK, but they saw similar trends in in America and Canada and Ireland and Portugal where companies also reported revenue growth.

如果我们结合这些信息，能得出什么结论呢？

Now if we take that information, what can we take away from this?

显然，这对公司是有利的。

Well, obviously, it's gonna be beneficial for the companies.

他们获得了更多的收入，员工流失率也降低了。

They got more money coming into their pockets and lower turnover of employees.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们还因此节省了资金，比如在员工培训等方面。

They're saving money there too because of employee training and things like that.

所以，至少对于那些特定实验中的公司来说，这显然是有利的。

Obviously, beneficial for the companies then, at least the ones in those particular experiments.

嗯。

Mhmm.

全球有许多国家和大量不同的人参与其中。

There was a lot of countries around the world and a lot of different a lot of different people involved.

那个来自英国的案例，涉及61家公司和3000名员工。

That that one from The UK, that was 61 companies with 3,000 employees.

这可不是一个小规模的研究。

That's not a little tiny study.

这是一个相当可观的数字。

That's a significant number.

你说得对。

You're right.

但我一直觉得，这些公司采用这种做法，可能是因为它们已经观察到公司在运营和员工管理方面存在一些问题，而这是它们解决问题的方式。

But I'm I keep thinking that it is possible that the companies are adopting this because they are already observing problems in their in the running of the company, in the operating, in the manage managing of their employees, and this is their way to solve those problems.

所以我们不能说这是一种适用于所有公司的万能解决方案。

So we cannot really say it's a one one way fits all kind of solution for all companies to go to.

但我们确实看到了人们这样做的可能性和原因。

But we do see possibilities or we do see reasons why people are doing this.

辛宇已经提到，对于年轻一代来说，他们希望有更灵活的时间安排来兼顾副业，也有证据表明这有助于工作与生活的平衡；但问题是，如果我整天要照顾孩子，同时还要全天工作，这怎么行呢？

Xinyu has already mentioned that for the younger generation, they would want a relatively more flexible schedule for their side hustles, And there are also evidence showing that it's better for work life balance, questioning that because if I have to take care of my kid all day long, while working all day long, just do them.

在我看来，我并不是每次单独进行四十五到九十分钟的活动，一天多次进行。

In my opinion, I'm not doing them separately for forty five minute to ninety minute a session and having multiple sessions a day.

我几乎是同时做这些事情，这对我的工作与生活平衡并不好。

I'm doing those things simultaneously almost, and it's not good for my work life balance.

但我理解人们对于这种生活方式会有不同的理解。

But I understand how people would have different understanding of this lifestyle.

我们还应该考虑哪些其他原因呢？

What are some other reasons we're looking at?

第一，对于那些坚定选择这种相对更灵活工作时间的人。

One, for those who are very firmly opting for this relatively more flexible working hour.

从公司的角度来看，或者

From the company's point of view or

从员工的角度来看。

from From the the employees.

从员工的角度来看。

Employee's point of view.

嗯，我认为这适用于双方。

Well, can do I think this applies to both.

你可以在更短的时间内完成同样多的工作。

You can do just as much in in less time.

他们还发现另一项研究，抱歉，我忘了记下这些数据，但我记得大概。

What they found there was another study, and I apologize, I forgot to write down these numbers, but I think I remember.

与四十小时的工作周相比，员工完成的工作量——也就是说，如果你给他们四十小时的任务，他们就会花四十小时来完成这些任务。

When compared to a forty hour work week and the amount of work that employees do, meaning the tasks that you give those if you give them forty hours, they will take forty hours to complete those tasks.

如果你只给他们三十二小时，他们照样能完成这些任务，但并不会因为必须在办公室待满四十小时就更快完成。

If you give them thirty two hours they will complete those tasks, but they don't complete them faster if they have to be in the office for all those forty hours.

我解释清楚了吗？

Did I explain that well?

是的。

Yes.

如果你给他们四十小时，他们就会花四十小时来完成任务。

If you give them forty hours, they will take forty hours to complete the tasks.

如果你只给他们三十二小时，他们就会在三十二小时内完成任务，这意味着员工会根据分配的时间来工作。

If you only give them thirty two, they'll complete them in thirty two, meaning employees work with the amount of time that's given to them.

这是我对此观点的最终结论。

Here's my final kind of stamp on that point.

我们整个社会每天大约工作九到十个小时。

We work as a society roughly nine to ten hours a day.

对吧？

Right?

那么，你认为自己每天在办公室里真正高效专注地工作的时间有多少小时？

Now, how many hours a day at the office do you think you're actually being productive and really focused on your work?

你觉得是八小时吗？

In a tent you think eight hours?

这真的真的要看情况。

It really, really depends.

是的。

Yeah.

这取决于你在那段时间内的任务、同次会议中人们的生产力，以及你对特定任务的真实兴趣程度。

On the missions you have during that period of time, on the productivity of the people in the same meeting that you're in, on the level of interest you really have to the specific mission.

所以影响因素太多了。

So there are too many factors.

我有点明白你的意思了。

I kind of get what you're saying here.

是的。

Yeah.

但这正是棘手的地方。

But that's the tricky part, actually.

没错。

Exactly.

我

I

我认为许多办公室职员有时会假装忙碌，以便让别人看到

think many work office workers, they sometimes, they're pretending to be busy, to be seen by

哦，生产力表演。

Oh, productivity theaters.

是的。

Yes.

一些。

Some.

我不知道确切的数字，但是

I don't know the exact numbers, but

微调的概念是，表面上听起来有点荒谬：上班四十五分钟到一个半小时，然后回来，再上班一个半小时，再回来，再上班另一个半小时，整天这样反复。

The idea of micro shifting is, and it sound a little bit ridiculous on the surface, coming to work for forty five minutes to an hour and a half, and then coming back to work for an hour and a half, and then coming back to work again for another hour and a half, and doing this all day.

通勤时间很长。

A lot of commute.

是的。

Yeah.

这意味着当你在那里的时候，你实际上是专注的，我说过我想回到这个词。

It means while you're there, you're actually focused, and I said I wanted to come back to this word.

你实际上专注于你正在做的工作，并且真的在工作。

You're actually focused on the work that you're doing, and you're actually working.

我曾在韩国的一家办公室工作。

I worked in an office in in Korea.

我当时在写一本英语教材，那是一家很大的办公室。

I was writing an English textbook, a really big office.

一层楼可能有两三百名员工。

There were probably like 200, 300 employees on one floor.

那地方非常大。

It was it was huge.

有一天下午，我转过身想跟办公室里的同事说点什么。

One day in the middle of the afternoon, I turned around to say something to my coworker in the office.

我转身时看到的画面是，我能看到他头趴在椅子上，手臂放在电脑鼠标上，盯着电脑屏幕。

The image that I saw when I turned around was I could see his head above his chair, his arm was on his computer mouse, and he was looking at his computer screen.

我叫了他的名字。

I said his name.

他没有回应。

He didn't respond.

我又说了一遍。

I said it again.

他还是没有回应。

He didn't respond.

我站了起来。

I stood up.

我走到他桌子前面。

I walked around to the front of his desk.

他以工作姿势睡着了，手放在鼠标上，眼睛盯着屏幕，真是天才。

He was sleeping in the working position with his hand on his mouse, genius, looking at his screen.

我不是在评论韩国的员工之类的事情。

I'm not saying anything about, you know, employees in Korea or anything like that.

我只是想说明这一点。

I'm just saying that as a point.

没有人会在办公室里一整天都专注于工作。

Nobody is focused work all day while they're at the office.

微调工作方式能让人们做到这一点。

Micro shifting allows people to do that.

这没错。

That's true.

而且这一点再次说明了，为什么人们现在在探索不同的方式来实现‘拥有’——这里说的‘人’，其实指的是公司。

And that kind of, again, is why people are exploring different ways to own by saying people now, mean companies.

雇主们正在努力思考，什么样的方式或选择最能帮助员工更好地表现，因为最终，我们支付薪水并不是为了让员工每天在办公室待满八小时。

The employers are trying to figure out what would be the best way or what would be the best choice for their employee to perform better because ultimately, we're not paying the employers or not paying for employees to stay in the office for eight hours a day.

我们支付的是他们智慧、精力和时间投入到使命后所取得的成果，真正重要的是使命的成果。

They're paying for the outcome of the wisdom and energy and their time pouring into the mission, and it's the outcome of the mission that matters.

同时，员工的福祉也需要被考虑。

And at the same time, the benefit of employees are also to be considered.

这在一定程度上也是为什么中国许多地方正在推行弹性工时，但背后有特定的原因，不仅仅是为了提升工作效率或试探是否对公司有利，还有其他考量。

And that is partly I think that is one reason that many places here in China are adopting flexible hours, but for specific reasons, not just to improve work performance or to try to find out whether or not they will benefit the company, but for other reasons.

比如在上海，我觉得有个类似家长发帖这样的事情，嗯。

Like, in Shanghai, I think there is a parent post kind of thing Mhmm.

安排或允许父母弹性上下班。

Arranging or allowing parents to take flexible hours.

是的。

Yeah.

这被称为生育友好岗位。

It's called fertility friendly posts.

这个概念由上海在2024年底首次提出并试点。

So this concept was first introduced and piloted by Shanghai in late twenty twenty four.

也就是大约两年前。

So, like, it's like two years ago.

但上海的试点是首个打破性别限制的。

But Shanghai's pilot was the first to break away from gender based limits.

因此，它不仅惠及女性员工，也惠及所有参与育儿的家庭成员。

So it's just not only benefiting these female workers, but also all members of family involved in childcare.

因此，在新媒体运营或视频制作等岗位上，这一职位专为有12岁以下孩子的父母设计，允许他们灵活调整工作时间和工作环境，以平衡育儿与职业发展。

So in roles like new media operations or video production, this post is designed for parents with children 12 allowing them to flex their hours and work environments to balance care and their childcare and career.

例如，对于一位在职父母来说，她或他需要在下午四点半接孩子。

So for example, if for a working parent, she or he has to pick up his kid at the hour of four, like 04:30PM.

所以她可以比九点稍早一点到办公室，比如八点半，然后工作到下午四点半，再去学校接孩子。

So probably she can arrive at the office a little bit earlier than nine, like nine like 08:30AM and start working till 04:30PM and then go to the school to pick up her kid.

这基本上就是上海及其他城市这种职位的运作方式。

So that's basically how the post works in Shanghai and other cities as well.

是的。

Yeah.

你想谈谈这个问题的另一面吗？

Do you wanna talk about the other side of this coin?

负面的一面？

The negative side?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

所以我刚才所主张的是针对非常负责任的员工，他们不会试图占便宜。

So what I just argued for is for a very responsible employee who will not try to take advantage.

哦，让我打断你一下。

Oh, let me cut you right there.

对于非常负责任的员工，其实也有积极的一面。

For a very responsible employee, the there is an upside for a very responsible employee as well.

那就是，如果员工过于在意工作，他们可能会陷入一种24小时待命的工作状态。

That is if employee mind or cares about the work too much, they will end up in a position that they're in a twenty four seven kind of working state.

因为无论老板什么时候打电话，他们都会立即回复，即使那不在四十五到九十分钟的弹性时段内。

Because whenever their boss calls them, they will reply instantly even when it's not within the forty five minute to ninety minute period.

也许你刚结束你的工作时段，然后在路上接孩子。

Maybe you finished your little session, and then you pick up your kid on the way.

你开始用手机回复并处理工作。

You started to reply and take care of your work on your cell phone.

当你接孩子时，你一边戴着耳机开电话会议，一边牵着孩子的手走路。

And when you get your kid, you started to walk your kid hand in hand while having a phone meeting in your ear with your earbuds.

所以，这就是员工的弊端。

So that is already the downside of the employee.

这其实就是一种全天候文化的伪装。

Which is this is basically just that always on culture Mhmm.

以另一种形式存在。

In disguise.

因为现在你仍然对工作职责负责，是的，你不在办公室，但你依然负责，所以时间被拉长了。

Because now you're still responsible for your work duties, but, yeah, you're not in the office, but you're responsible, so stretching out.

你只是在推迟不可避免的结果。

You're delaying the inevitable.

从早上8点到晚上10点。

From 8AM in the morning to 10PM in the evening.

没错。

Exactly.

你真幸运。

You're lucky.

是的。

Yeah.

从公司的角度来看，你能想象吗？

And from a company's point of view, if you have can you imagine?

如果你所有的员工整天来回进出，时间各不相同，

If you have all of your employees coming and going all day long Different

时间。

times.

对吧？

Right?

一团混乱。

Chaotic.

是的。

Yes.

这是一个优势。

It's a Advantage.

如果是购物中心的洗手间之类的，你该怎么协调会议呢？

It's a shopping mall bathroom or something, then how are you supposed to coordinate meetings?

你知道的。

You know?

哦，他们在这儿吗？

Oh, are they here?

哦，不。

Oh, no.

他们现在不在。

They're not here right now.

好的。

Okay.

那么，他们、你在这儿吗？

Well, are they are they you here?

不在。

No.

他们也不在这儿。

They're not here either.

好的。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

想组织这些事情真是场噩梦。

This is a this is a nightmare trying to organize things.

所以，这会非常、非常困难。

So, yeah, this would be very, very difficult Yeah.

从组织的角度来看，就是这样。

And that's from an organizational point of view.

这就是为什么微调现在只在高科技行业真正流行的原因。

And that's why microshifting is now only really popular in the high-tech industry.

这是另一个反对的理由，因为这只适用于有特权的员工。

Which is another argument against because this is only for privileged workers.

对吧？

Right?

这不适用于那些需要上夜班的人。

This is on this isn't for people who are, you know, overnight shift workers.

不。

No.

这不适用于

This isn't for

需要团队协作的团队成员，其他人呢？

Team members who need to work in a team What about others.

那警察呢？

What about police officers?

哦，他们不能这样排班。

Oh, they cannot take

这样的轮班。

shifts like that.

发生犯罪时，我不希望我 neighborhood 的警察在轮换作息。

I don't need my neighborhood cops micro shifting while there's a crime taking place somewhere.

对吧？

Right?

护士，急诊室护士。

Nurses, emergency ER nurses.

所以这个论点是，这只适用于一部分人，因此不能推广到所有人。

So the argument is this only applies to some, so we can't apply this to everyone.

但这个论点并不意味着我们支持或反对这种排班方式。

But that argument does not mean we are we are for or against this way of ranging.

我们提供这种新可能性，是因为观察到了这一新趋势，而这一新趋势是另一种选择，让不同公司、不同管理文化、

We're only providing this new possibility because we observe this new trend, And the new trend is another option out there so that different companies with different managing culture,

与

with

不同类型的管理者和员工都能意识到：哦，原来还有这种可能性。

different types of managers and different types of employees can know that, oh, there is the possibility.

也许这种可能性正是解决我当前问题的良方，也许因为我找到了这种新方式，我的公司也能实现57%的参与率。

Maybe this possibility is the exact cure to the problems that I am currently experiencing, and maybe that 57% turnout rate can happen to my company because I found this new way.

有个问题。

Question.

我们还没讨论过这一点。

And we didn't discuss this yet.

如果你的同事被允许成为微调者，

If your coworker were permitted to be a micro shifter

是的。

Yeah.

他们每天早上来办公室，但一个半小时后就走了。

And they would show up to the office in the morning, and then after an hour and a half, they're gone.

然后他们晚些时候再回来，接着又离开了。

And then they come back later, and then they're gone again.

但你却不被允许这样做。

But you are not permitted to do this.

他们被允许，因为他们有孩子。

They are permitted because they have children.

他们有年迈的父母。

They have elderly parents.

他们有需要照顾的责任。

They have responsibilities they need to take care of.

这种方式对他们有效，而且他们依然把工作做得非常好。

This actually works for them, and they still do their job very, very well.

你感到不满吗，还是不觉得？

Are you annoyed or are are you not?

想想职场中的每个人，比如，如果你给一些在职父母提供微调工作时间的机会，那我也应该有同样的机会。

Think everyone in the workplace for example, if you are giving some of the working parents the opportunity to micro shift, then I should have the same opportunity.

我可以自行决定是否

I can choose whether or not

还有一个组织层面的问题。

There's another organizational issue.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yes.

这是因为你的公司内部其实存在着一个小社会。

It's that you have a little society living inside your company.

你必须确保公平性。

You have to ensure the equity.

嗯。

Mhmm.

根据访谈，我们联系了一位在中国公司工作的人，他们正在体验这种灵活工作时间，只不过他们是居家办公，也就是远程工作。

And according to interview, we talked to someone who's working in a Chinese company who's experiencing this kind of flexible working hours, only that they're working from home, so remote working.

结果发现，即使是远程员工的工作表现和KPI，也略高于在办公室工作的员工。

And it turns out even the remote workers' work performance as well as KPI, everything is slightly higher than those who are working in the office.

但他们获得晋升的机会却略低于在办公室工作的员工。

The chances that they got promoted is slightly lower than those who are in the office.

所以我认为，如果你真的想推行这种模式，就必须全面考虑所有因素。

So I think if you really wanna adopt this, you really have to think about all the factors.

你会这么做吗？

Would you do it?

我不会。

I would not.

对我而言，这将是24小时不间断地工作和照顾孩子。

For me, it will be twenty four hours working and taking care of my kid.

而且，我也不是那种不需要长时间沉浸于任务中的人。

And also, I'm not those kind of people who does not really need longer time to really be immersed in the task.

我需要半小时才能真正进入状态，进入工作流，全神贯注地深入思考，才能把任务做好。

I would need half an hour to really start the mission and then be really in the flow and to really think and deeply be 100% in the mission to perform it well.

所以九十分钟可能不够。

So ninety minute might not be enough

对我来说。

for me.

你呢，星？

What about you, Xing?

是的。

Yeah.

不过，我还是希望多一个选择。

I'd like to have one more option though.

但我猜。

But I guess

那个选择是什么？

What is that option?

微调。

Micro shifting.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

是的。

Yeah.

我希望能够多一个选项。

I I would like I would like to have one more option.

但对我而言，我大概也会选择这个九到五的安排。

But for me, probably, I'd also choose this nine to five schedule.

也许五点之后，我就可以好好放松了。

Maybe after five, I can just enjoy myself.

真的，真的所有事情。

Really, really everything.

对。

Yeah.

好好休息一下。

Really refresh yourself.

史蒂夫？

Steve?

有些日子，我觉得我进行了微调，但根本没有离开大楼。

Some days, I feel like I do micro shift and I don't leave the building.

什么？

What?

那就是微调？

That's micro shifting?

如果我感到很疲惫

If I'm having a tiring

咳嗽。

cough.

不。

No.