本集简介
双语字幕
仅展示文本字幕，不包含中文音频；想边听边看，请使用 Bayt 播客 App。
你可能知道，也可能不知道，我其实是Go Running Tours在蒙特利尔的城市负责人。
So you might you might know or you might not know, but I'm actually the the Montreal city manager for Go Running Tours.
Go Running Tours是一个全球性的服务，我想是这样的。
Go Running Tours is a worldwide service, I guess.
你上Go Running Tours的网站，预订一场跑步行程，到了城市后，会有人来陪你跑步，带你看看城市的亮点，或者带你去一些特别的地方跑一跑，这样你既能跑步，又能观光。
You go on the Go Running Tours website, you book a run, you turn up in the city, and, somebody turns up and runs with you and shows you, bits of the city or takes you on a special run somewhere exciting, and you get sort of a tour and a run at the same time.
如果你愿意，也可以多跑点，少逛点；要是不想跑太多，那就多逛点，跑一点也行。
And if you want, you can have a lot of run or if you don't, you can have a lot of tour and a little run.
所以你知道的，Liz，因为你是我备选的搭档。
So you know how it is Liz because you're my backup.
如果我没能去蒙特利尔陪你跑步，那很可能就是Liz会去陪你。
If I don't turn up to run with you in Montreal, the chance that Liz will be turning up to run with you in Montreal.
在蒙特利尔做这种跑步导览的麻烦在于，冬天根本没几个人预订，谁也不想大冷天还黑灯瞎火地往外跑。虽然有时候景色确实挺美——我知道你是个怕冷的人——但你得裹得严严实实的。
So the trouble is with running these tours in in Montreal is you don't get many tours in winter because nobody wants to go out in the dark and the cold and even though sometimes well I know you because you're a hot weather person but even though sometimes it's quite beautiful you do have to wear a lot of clothes.
不过这些都只是铺垫，想跟你说的是，几周前有个叫汉娜·维克尔斯的英国姑娘，预订了我的导览服务。
Anyway, that's all just a preamble to say somebody booked a tour with me, a couple of weeks ago, an English girl, called Hannah Vickers.
希望她不介意我提起她的名字。
I hope she doesn't mind me name dropping her.
如果她正在听这个播客，那这就是给你听的，Hannah。
And if she's listening to the podcast, there you go, Hannah.
你现在可是《跑步书评》播客里的名人了。
You're you're now famous, with, Running Book Reviews podcast.
她是英国人，早就习惯了阴天和下雨的天气。
So anyway, she's English, so she's used to dark and rainy and stuff like that.
刚贬低了一个国家，不过算了。
Just insulted a whole nation, but there we go.
我们就出发了，开始跑步。
Off we went, and we went for a run.
天气挺晴朗，但特别冷。
It was quite sunny, but it was quite cold.
我们一路跑到皇家山山顶，打算俯瞰全城，结果那儿冷得够呛。
So, we got to the top of Mount Royal where we were going to, look out on the the city from the top of Mount Royal and it was quite cold.
我就说，哎，你看。
So I said, oh, look.
山顶小屋里的咖啡馆，开门了。
The cafe in the chalet at the top of the mountain, it's open.
走吧。
Come on.
咱们进去，我给你买杯咖啡。
Let's go in, and I'll buy you some coffee.
她说，哦，我不喝咖啡，但我喜欢热可可。
And she says, oh, I'm not a coffee drinker, but I like hot chocolate.
于是我们买了热可可，就坐了下来。
So we bought hot chocolate, we just sat down.
跑步跑到一半，我们就坐下来喝热可可。
And in the middle of the run, we just sat down and had hot chocolate.
我当时就想，这大概就是这件事的真谛吧。
And I thought this is kind of what it's about really.
跑步的时候，不管什么情况，都得让跑步变得有趣。
When when you go out for a run, you should make the run fun, no matter what your circumstances are.
如果觉得有点吃力，那就想办法让它变得好玩、享受。这样既能完成跑步，又能玩得开心，不会给自己太大压力，反而能在精神上给自己充电，一举两得。
If if you're finding it a bit rough, if you can make it fun and enjoyable, you can get your run-in and have a good time and not stress, not sort of mentally weigh yourself down, but in fact mentally build yourself up and get your run at the same time.
所以我们喝了热巧克力，大家都笑得很开心。
So we had hot chocolate and then we were all smiles and happy.
从那以后，一切就顺风顺水了，因为我们是从山上往下跑的。
And then we, it was all downhill from there because we're running from the mountain downwards.
对，确实是这样。
Oh yeah.
我觉得下山那一段才是山上最棒的部分。
That's the best part of the mountain is the part where you're running down.
她特别喜欢那次体验，所以两周后她再来城里的时候，又找我订了一次。
And she enjoyed that so much that she booked with me again two weeks later because she was in town again.
她再次找我，还说这次想去个不一样的地方。
So she booked me with me again and she said, oh, go somewhere different.
但她说，要是能再去喝杯热巧克力就太好了。
But she said it would be good if we could stop for hot chocolate again.
显然，这才是这次经历里最让人难忘的部分。
That was obviously the memorable thing of the, of the, of the event.
于是我们换了个地方，又去喝了热巧克力。
So we did, we went somewhere else and had hot chocolate.
所以我想说的是，跑步的时候得加点乐趣，在我们这个水平上，这才是最重要的。
So just to say, you know, you need to build fun into your running and that's what it's really all about it at our level of performance.
你不可能拿到金牌之类的荣誉。
You're not going to win gold medals and stuff.
你会努力训练，但在休赛期——我们现在正好处于休赛期——努力训练之余，你也要保持基础体能，并且乐在其中。
You're going to try hard, but in between trying hard when you're in the off season and we're kind of in the off season now, you need to keep your base built and have fun doing it.
大家好，欢迎来到《跑步书评》播客。我们会点评那些写给跑者、关于跑者、以及由跑者撰写的书籍，帮你判断自己是否想读这本书。
So hi, and welcome to the Running Book Reviews podcast where we review books written for runners, about runners, and by runners to help you decide if you'd like to read the book for yourself.
我们也希望，通过听我们聊跑步，能让你对自己的跑步保持动力，也许还能激发你尝试新事物，迈出下一步。
We also hope listening to us chat about running can keep you motivated about your own running and maybe inspire you to try something new and take that next step forward.
我叫艾伦，和我的搭档丽兹一起，今天我们来聊聊自打六月那次回顾以来，我们读过的书。
My name's Allan, and with my co host Liz, we're going to reminisce today about the books we've read since our last recap way back in June.
那我想，日程上的第一本书应该是我们记忆里最久远的那本，因为大概是在五月或者六月的时候读的。
So I guess the first book on the agenda is the one that's the furthest away in our memory, because it would have been sometime around June, May, June that we read it.
那就是杰弗里·雷克写的《羞辱之旅》。
And that's The Humiliation Tour by Jeffrey Recker.
这是一本小说，里面好像有两个故事线，最后合到了一起。
So this one was the the fiction novel, where there were sort of, like, two stories in one, and they merged at the end.
我们不想剧透，虽然播客里其实透露了不少细节。
And we don't wanna give it away, although, like, there was quite a bit of detail in the podcast.
对。
Yeah.
不过
But
这本书 basically 讲的是比利，哦，他的外号叫比利·鲍尔斯，原因嘛，你读了书就知道有多明显了。
It's basically the story of Billy well, his nickname's Billy Balls for a for quite an obvious reason when you read the book.
你还是自己去读吧，看了就知道了。
I want I'll let you read the book and find out.
1993年发生的是其中一个故事，另一个同时展开的故事发生在1933年禁酒令时期，主角叫吉米·弗林，他帮私酒贩子跑腿，干的都是些类似黑帮的非法勾当。
That sort of happens in 1993, and then there's a simultaneous story that runs of a guy called Jimmy Flynn, which happens in 1933 during sort of prohibition in between the wars, and he's sort of running errands for bootleggers who are doing illegal alcohol and sort of pseudo mafia type things.
这两个故事并行推进，到后面都跟波士顿马拉松扯上了关系，只不过参赛的目的完全不同。
So there's two stories running, and and they both basically involved towards the end running the Boston Marathon for different reasons and different purposes.
其实这两个故事最后是连在一起的，对吧？
And in fact, the the stories link eventually, don't they?
对。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
我提到过，他们用的补给策略也完全不同。
I said and using different fueling strategies.
没错，差别可大了。
Oh, very different fueling strategies.
对。
Yes.
我现在想起来了。
I remember that now.
1933年的时候还没有兴奋剂检测，基本上什么都敢试。
In 1930 in 1933, there wasn't dope testing, and you could try anything, basically.
所以那
So that
有点夸张，但挺有意思的。
was kind of just kind of a bit over the top, but quite entertaining.
我真的很喜欢这本书。
I really like this book.
我平时不怎么读小说，但这故事讲得真好。
Like, I don't read a lot of fiction, but I thought this was a great story.
我也挺喜欢它把三十年代和九十年代的故事线交织在一起的写法。
And I kind of liked how they had, like, the the thirties reality and the nineties reality.
我是说，你知道，我九十年代的时候还是个青少年，所以那种感觉对我来说很熟悉，但我对三十年代长大的生活完全不了解。
I mean, like, you know, I was a teen in the nineties, so I I would have been kind of like, that was very familiar to me, but I didn't have any idea sort of what it was like growing up in the thirties.
所以那个
So that
你是要说你三十年代的时候还是个青少年，是吗？
was You're you're going to say I was a teen in thirties, are you?
我不是。
I wasn't.
不是。
No.
可以画一个人试图
Could draw somebody trying to
说点什么。
say something.
为了那个。
For that.
我还会算数学呢，艾伦。
I can still do math, Alan.
我没到那个地步。
I'm not,
我是说，到最后
like, at the end
跑完马拉松的时候。
of a marathon.
那倒是。
That's
挺好。
good.
那时候我可能还以为你出生在十九世纪呢。
Where then I might think that maybe you were born in the in the nineteen hundreds.
就是说，我也说不准。
Like, I don't know.
因为我的数学能力一下子就全没了。
Like, because my math skills get thrown out the window.
但不，我脑子很清楚，完全清醒。
But, no, I'm I'm, like, perfectly coherent.
所以你肯定不是在三十年代当的青少年。
So I know you weren't you weren't a teen in the thirties for sure.
我只是想说，那样还挺好的，因为他的那个世界听起来挺熟悉的。
But I was just saying that, you know, it was kind of it was kinda nice because, like, it would his reality was kind of familiar.
这本书虽然写得很新，但故事背景并不是现代，我觉得作者是故意这么安排的，因为他对现在带着手机和刷抖音长大的孩子不太了解。
The book was although the book is very recent, it wasn't placed in a recent time, which I think the author did because he, you know, he's less familiar with growing up, you know, with cell phones and TikTok Mhmm.
还有Strava，你知道的。
And Strava, you know?
对。
Yes.
他那时候是
He it was
没深入聊到那方面。
more get into that much.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
虽然他得去研究一下三十年代的生活背景，但我觉得在科技方面，其实跟现在差别也没那么大。
And although he had to research for, you know, growing up in the thirties, I guess it's not that it's not that different in terms of technology.
我是说，我想确实是这样，而且你知道的，比赛时允许使用的补给品跟现在差别很大，这点毫无疑问。
I mean, I guess it is, but and also the, you know, the substances that you can use during races were very different, but For sure.
而且这也算是一段挺有意思的跑步历史。
And was a nice sort of running history.
我们以前出过几本关于跑步历史的书，这次某种程度上算是重温了那些年代，就像我们过去做过的跑步历史回顾一样。
We've done some running history books in the past and it was sort of, to some extent, a revisit of some of those eras, like running through history that we did in the past.
而且杰夫·雷克是个非常酷的人。
And Jeff Recker was a very cool guy.
他确实是这样。
He was, yeah.
他出了一本书，自己出版的，人也特别好相处。
And he's on book and self published and very nice to talk to.
他为这本书投入了那么多精力，简直难以想象，得做研究，还亲自把内容整理出来。
Yeah, and the amount of effort he put into this book, I mean, just must have been huge because he had to research and, you know, he he got it.
他找人润色，找人提前阅读，才最终出版，真的付出了太多心血。
He got he got it edited and, you know, got people to read it before he published and, I mean, just, you know, so much work.
说白了，他干的都是其他作者该干的那些事儿。
Basically, I guess, all the work that every other author does.
只不过，大部分事情他都得自己摸索着来。
It's just that he kinda had to figure it out on his own mostly.
是的。
Yeah.
我们没法多聊这个，不然他会把内容透露得太多。
So we can't talk that much about it because he'd sort of give it away a bit a little bit.
对。
Yeah.
不过有些地方挺搞怪的，挺逗的，也有挺严肃的部分，还有爱情线和悲剧元素。
But it's kind of a bit wacky in parts, funny, pretty serious, some bits of love story, some bits of tragedy.
明白。
Mhmm.
而且
And
故事都是围绕波士顿马拉松展开的，在不同时代背景下层层推进，最后汇聚到这一赛事上。
it's all running based and sort of culminates in Boston marathons in different eras.
对。
Yeah.
所以，如果你对这类题材感兴趣，而且还没读过这本书的话，赶紧去买一本吧。
So, you know, if you're into that stuff and you haven't read this yet, go and grab a copy.
确实。
Mhmm.
我觉得哪怕是年轻读者，比如正在跑越野赛或者刚跑完的青少年，应该也会喜欢这个故事。因为故事主要讲的其实是两个年轻人，虽然他们处于不同的时代，但都年轻且热爱跑步。
I think even for a younger reader, like a, you know, like a teen that's running cross country right now or just was because I guess the season just finished, I think that, you know, they would enjoy the story too because it's basically like, most of it is, is about, you know, two young people, but just growing up in different eras, but they're young and they're runners.
而且，像比利那样，他曾经放弃跑步后来又重拾跑步，我觉得这点写得特别好，因为这种情况其实很常见。
And, they you know, in Billy's case, he leaves running and comes back to running, which I thought was was great because I think that that probably happens a lot.
我知道我自己就经历过。
I know it happened to me.
我也曾放弃过跑步，后来又重新捡起来了。
Like, I left running and came back to it later.
所以我也说不准。
So I don't know.
我看了
I saw
故事里好像有我的影子。
myself in the story.
我想到你了。
I think about you.
挺有意思的，因为我们平时很少读小说。
It's kinda cool because we don't get a chance to read many, fictions.
我们整天只关心训练和那些严肃的事儿，怎么做这个，怎么做那个。
We're all into training and serious stuff and how do you do this and how do you do that.
所以能暂时放飞一下想象力，感觉挺好的。
So it was good to sort of just go on a flight of fantasy for a while.
对啊。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
特别有意思。
It was a lot of fun.
而且快到圣诞节了，我想最后想说的是，你可以考虑把它当礼物送人。
And because, you know, Christmas is coming up, I guess the last thing I would say is, you know, someone could consider this as a gift for
对啊。
Mhmm.
给家里爱跑步的人，或者你认识的跑者，送一份小礼物
A family member that's that's a runner or a friend that's a runner that you just wanna get them
对。
Yeah.
一份贴心的小礼物。
A little something.
最好是他们书架上还没有的那种。
That you know they haven't got on their shelves already.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
因为要是真书迷的话，可能早就把所有书都收齐了。
Because, you know, if they're proper book nerds, then they might have all the books already.
你大概觉得人人都跟你一样是书迷吧。
You probably think everybody's a book nerd just because you are.
对。
Yeah.
你真是个书呆子。要是有人送你这个，你肯定会说：‘哎呀，我已经有了一本。’但其实心里觉得特别棒。
You're such a book nerd if somebody bought you this, you'd say, well, I already have one, but it's really great.
现在我就有两本了。
Now I have two.
那太棒了。
That's excellent.
大多数人听到后都会说，哇，太厉害了。
And most people would go you go, oh, wow.
挺酷的。
It's cool.
既然一个不错，那来两个肯定更好。
If one is good, two must be even better.
确实更好。
Even better.
所以你想看的是格雷格·麦克米伦写的《跑得更慢，才能跑得更远》吗？
So you wanna do, you only faster by Greg McMillan?
当然。
Definitely.
我觉得这本书更像是一本常规的健身训练指南，但它的角度有点不一样。格雷格在书里教你怎么把那些现成的、固定的训练计划——比如网上找的，或者买来的——根据自己的实际情况进行调整。
So I, I guess this was more of a typical, you know, training type book, but it was a little bit of a different take where, where Greg actually shows you how you can take a training plan that you get from somewhere that's a static training plan, like the ones you get online, or maybe you buy it online, and then you can tailor it to your needs.
我特别喜欢这个理念。
And I actually love this idea.
我特别喜欢他的一点是，第一步就是要把训练项目标出来，标记成你的强项或者弱项。
And the one thing that came away with that I really liked was how he would One of the first steps was to highlight the workouts and mark them as like your strength or your weakness.
然后后面他会告诉你，对于弱项，你要确保不要连续安排太多，因为这些训练项目对你来说可能更消耗体力。
Then then later, he tells you, well, for the weaknesses, you wanna make sure that you don't have too many of them in a row, because they tend to be the workouts that for you personally, they might take more out of you.
所以恢复起来会更慢。
So it'll take you longer to recover.
而且，它们也是最打击士气的。
But then also, they're like the most demoralizing.
我是说，他当时不是这么说的。
I mean, that's not how he said it.
他是用一种很正式的方式表达的。
He said it in a proper way.
你知道的，
That's, you know,
这听起来真让人提不起劲。
the least encouraging.
对。
Yes.
而且从心理层面来说，你也得练一些，但没必要把自己逼得太紧。
And so, you know, also mentally, it's, you know, you need to do some of them, but you don't need to beat yourself over the head with them.
是的。
Yeah.
我猜关于个人跑步风格的评估，如果你是耐力跑者，你是偏向速度型，还是偏向耐力型？
I guess the sort of personal evaluation of your running style was if you're an endurance runner, are you more of a speedster, or are you more of an endurance monster?
然后基于这一点，你会更倾向于哪些训练，又觉得哪些训练比较难？
And then which based on that, which runs would you favor and which runs would you find difficult?
接着基于这个情况，你在发挥自身优势方面会怎么做？
And then based on that, what would you do with that in terms of working your strengths?
不过，在某种程度上，你可以把这些放在训练计划的后期。
But you can, to some extent, can leave them later in the program.
你在针对弱点进行训练时，要注意别练太多导致失去信心，但大体上还是应该早点安排，以便把弱点补强。
You're working your weaknesses, be careful about doing too many and getting discouraged, but basically build them a little earlier so that you can strengthen them up.
这里面还有很多细节和细微差别，但最初的基本原理大概就是这样。
There's a lot more to it than that and a lot more nuances than that, but that's kind of where it basically comes from initially.
Greg McMillan 以他的配速计算器闻名，这个计算器也收录在他的那本书里。
Greg McMillan is very famous for the McMillan pace calculator, which is part of this book as well.
我发现很有意思的一点是，多年来他积累了大量数据，证明这个配速计算器是有效的。也就是说，你只需要测一个距离、一个配速，就能推算出其他距离的配速，而且结果还挺准的。
One of the things I found fascinating was that, you know, over the years, he's built a lot of data to show that the pace calculator works, you know, so you can take one pace at one at one speed at one distance and then work out your other paces for your other distances and that it kind of works.
不过他也提到，超级跑鞋的出现打乱了他的计算模型。因为超级跑鞋上市后，大家的速度普遍变快了，有的甚至快很多，导致他之前的数据参考性没那么高了。
But he mentioned that the introduction of super shoes messed up his calculator because basically super shoes arrived and just everybody became a bit faster or a lot faster, by acquiring these shoes and then suddenly the data on his calculator is kind of not as applicable.
对。
Yeah.
而且因为超级跑鞋的出现，他不得不重新收集数据、更新他的配速计算器，这点确实挺让人意想不到的。
And that he's had to sort of recover the data, get new data and recover his calculator due to the advent of super shoes, which you kind of would never have thought about.
是的。
Yeah.
这就意味着，如果你穿着超级跑鞋去比赛，但平时训练却不穿，那你所有的训练配速相对于你的实际体能来说，都会显得太快了。
It just means that if you're running a race in super shoes, but you don't train in super shoes, well, now all your training paces are gonna be too fast for your fitness.
对。
Yes.
确实如此。
They are.
因为如果你把穿超级跑鞋时的比赛配速去掉的话。
Because if you take your race pace off your super shoes.
明白。
Mhmm.
因为我只在比赛时穿那种超轻跑鞋。
Because, like, I only race in my super shoes.
平时训练我不穿，对。
Like, I don't train in them Mhmm.
主要有几个原因。
For a few reasons.
不过
But
我想我可能会做几次
I would say I'll do might do a couple
几次
of couple
训练，比如那种速度训练。
of sessions, like sort of speed air sessions.
对。
Yeah.
不过我手头还会备几双带碳板的跑鞋，偶尔拿来练练。
But I'll have some other plated shoes, like, on the side that I kinda use for that occasionally.
对，但我大部分训练还是穿普通跑鞋，尤其是冬天的时候。
But but, yeah, I do a lot of my training in, like, regular shoes and especially in the winter.
所以我想这就是为什么我觉得麦克米伦计算器算出来的配速有点难适应。
So so I guess that's why I find the paces that McMillan's calculator gives.
感觉那些配速挺有挑战性的。
They're, like, kind of hard.
非常激进。
Aggressively.
对。
Yeah.
训练的时候，我很难把握好那些强度，总觉得所有的训练都特别累，而不是有轻松一点的和特别难的区分。
Oftentimes in training, I have a hard time hitting those, and I just feel like all the training is hard instead of there being like a medium hard and a really hard.
你知道的，感觉就是所有训练都特别吃力。
And, you know, there's like, it just seems like everything's hard.
但是，
But,
但你也更像一个耐力型选手，而不是速度型选手。
but also it seems that you are more of an endurance monster than a speedster.
所以你无论如何都需要调整一下。
So you would probably need to adjust anyway.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我其实处在中间位置，但有点特别，因为我挺喜欢五公里的训练课，也能跑出那个配速。
I think I'm actually like, I'm somewhere in between, but in a strange way, because I tend to like the, like, five k session training and I can hit those paces.
但要是给我一个很长的马拉松配速跑训练，我通常就挺吃力的。
But if you give me like a really long marathon pace run-in a workout, I have a hard time with that usually.
比如节奏跑。
Like tempo runs.
或者像三十分钟的乳酸阈值跑。
Or a lactate threshold run, like a decent distance lactate threshold run, thirty minutes.
对，就是这样。
Yeah, exactly.
我确实不太擅长这些。
I have a hard time with those.
我的意思是，
I mean,
二十分钟的，那种跑起来总是特别煎熬。
You've twenty minutes, those are always dreaded those.
不是。
No.
我们马上就要练这个了。
We've got that coming up.
是的。
Yeah.
所以今年我们把它们拆成了间歇训练，比如不再一口气跑八公里或十公里的乳酸阈值，而是分成两段、三段，或者按我们当时安排的方式。
That's why this year we broke them up into intervals, like instead of doing a straight eight ks or a straight 10 ks of lactate threshold, broke them into like two parts or three parts or whatever we did.
我记不太清了，不过
I can't remember exactly, but
我们 对，一本红皮的小书。
we So, you know, a little book with a red cover.
对。
Yeah.
它之所以是红皮，就跟我们现在为了提升功率都穿红色骑行服是一个道理。
And the reason it has a red cover is just like the reason we're all wearing red jumpers now for power.
别看它个头小，内容可是相当硬核。
It's small but mighty.
对。
Yeah.
封面看着挺简单的，但我是说，这本书的内容真的很棒。
It's the cover looks really simple, but it I mean, the content is great in this book.
那咱们接着聊聊你特别喜欢的那一本吧。
So I guess we should move on to one of the ones that you really liked.
我是说，我们都特别喜欢那本，史蒂夫·马格内斯的《做难事》。
I mean, we both really liked, but The Do Hard Things by Steve Magness.
对。
Yeah.
这本书 basically 讲的就是如何去做那些艰难的事，但它重新定义了我们对‘坚韧’的理解。
And this was basically all about doing hard things, but about our definition of toughness.
史蒂夫·马格内斯在开头剖析了社会对‘坚韧’的普遍看法，那种认为坚韧就是不惜一切代价硬扛的观念。
And Steve Magness kind of breaks down at the beginning sort of what society's general understanding of toughness is, where it's more like you're just tough at all costs.
但是很猛。
But Macho.
对。
Yeah.
费尔南多。
Fernando.
没错。
Exactly.
就是那种硬扛的作风。
Type stuff.
但真正的坚韧可不是那样。
And true toughness is not that.
他其实把它分成了四个支柱。
It's actually he divides it into four pillars.
比如第一个就是直面现实。
And so, like, the first one is embrace reality.
第二点是倾听身体的声音。
Second one is listen to your body.
第三点是做出回应，而不是本能反应。
Third one is respond instead of react.
第四根支柱是超越不适感。
And, the fourth pillar is transcend discomfort.
超越不适感，可能就像社会认为的那种真正的坚韧，也就是最后这一点，但它
And, transcend discomfort is probably like what society thinks that that real that toughness is, is like just that last one, but it
得坚持到最后。
has at to the end.
比如，先把这些事儿都做了。
Like, do all of these things first.
把心态调整好。
Get your mindset right.
然后
And
对。
Yeah.
要听懂身体的信号，因为有时候真正的坚强是懂得退一步。
Understand your body and what it's telling you because being tough is sometimes it's backing off.
并不是说一定要硬扛到底。
It's not always just pushed through.
所以你得学会分辨那些细微的差别。
So, but you have to understand the nuance that you're getting.
某种程度上，我确实觉得里面有些回响，对。
To some extent, I sort of felt I felt there was sort of echoes of the comeback quotient Mhmm.
我们读到那本书的时候，作者是麦克·菲茨杰拉德，他讲的是精英人士及其东山再起的能力。
In there when we read that, a book by, Mac Fitzgerald, who was talking about elite people and their ability to make comebacks.
他说这些人都是极度现实主义者。
He talked about them being ultra realists.
我觉得这是他用的词，极度现实主义者。
I think that was his term, ultra realists.
史蒂夫·马格尼斯最初就是提倡这种拥抱现实的理念。
Steve Magness sort of started with that embrace reality.
对。
Yep.
你知道，既不要高估自己的能力，也不要低估它。
You know, don't overestimate what you can do, but don't underestimate it either.
花点时间真正去接纳现实，不要被脑海中的想象吓到，而是直面现实。
Take time to get really conscious about embracing the reality of it, not be frightened of your mental picture of it, deal with the reality of it.
然后从这个点延伸开来。
And it sort of springs from there.
史蒂夫这人特别专业，信息量很大，有很多研究作为支撑。他讲的东西听起来像是那种软技能，比如《做难的事》里提到的那些，但实际上都有大量数据和研究在背后支持。
Steve's sort of a super, well informed chap so he's got lots of lots of backups in terms of research and so he talks about a lot of things that sound soft in Do Hard Things soft skills, but in fact they're backed up by a lot of information and research.
他可不是随口说说，比如告诉你‘要准备好心态’这种话。
He's not just kind of winging it in terms of saying, you know, prepare your mind.
他都会给你提供具体的研究来佐证他的观点，作为一名科学家，我很看重这一点。
He'll actually give you a study that backs up whatever he is is he has to say, which as a scientist, I kind of I value that.
对。
Mhmm.
最后一部分里有个观点挺有意思，说别为了强硬而强硬，你得找到背后的理由。我觉得这其实就是在说，你要清楚自己为什么这么做。而且，这也意味着，你在某个领域表现得坚韧，并不代表你在生活的方方面面都要那么硬扛。
One of the messages in the last, in the last section was like, shouldn't just try and be tough for its own sake, you know, it's, it's really, you need to find reasons, which is, I guess that that's going into like, you know, knowing your why for But doing it also kind of means like, you know, being tough in a certain domain doesn't mean that, like, you need to be tough in everything you do.
大概就是这个意思吧。
Sort of like, you know, okay.
比如说，你在体育竞技中很能扛，能咬牙坚持，但这并不意味着你在生活中遇到的所有困难你都得硬生生地受着。
So if you're tough, let's say, in sports, where, you know, you can grid it out, like doesn't mean that you need to be gritty and endure everything that's difficult in life.
对，确实是这样，
Like, yeah,
就像你说的，我觉得，你得学会挑重点去攻克，因为你看这些支柱，要是想把每一条都用到生活的方方面面，那根本不可能。
like you, I, I think, you know, it, it really shows that you need to pick your battles because like, if you look at all of these pillars, I mean, it would be impossible to apply all of those to everything in your life.
但另一方面，我觉得这些能力是会互相影响的。
But at the same time, I think like they will spill over.
如果你在跑步这项运动上培养了坚韧和毅力，那你在做其他事情时，反应自然也会不一样。
If you're if you're kind of if you develop toughness and grit in running, then obviously you're gonna react differently in all the other things you do.
但这并不意味着你会在所有方面都达到同样的水平。
But but it doesn't mean you'll have, like, the same level.
对。
Yeah.
而且在某种程度上，你需要把精力留给真正关键的时刻。
And to some extent, you need to save your your mental energy for when it's going to really count.
是的。
Mhmm.
这挺有意思的。
That's interesting.
今天早些时候我和女儿聊了聊，话题是关于跑步比赛，怎么坚持跑到终点，而不是中途放弃。
I was talking with my daughter earlier today, and we were talking about racing and racing to finish and not dropping out.
我回想起去年在魁北克超级越野赛上的表现，真是糟糕透了——你离开我的时候，我还在最后一个补给站，唉，没错。
And I was reminiscing about my quite abysmal effort at the Quebec Mega Trail last year or when you left me at the last aid station because I was oh, yes.
那时候我真是快没电了。
I was a bit running on empty.
是的。
Yeah.
我冲过终点后，在医疗帐篷里躺了一个小时。
I came in and then spent an hour in the med tent afterwards.
你知道吗，最后我硬是撑完了全程，当时我们聊到，有几个人跟我说，你早该退赛了。
And, you know, I gutted it out at the end and we were talking and I was saying, you know, of, a few people said to me, you should have just dropped out.
你这个年纪，真没必要拿健康去冒险。
You shouldn't, you know, at your age, you know, you shouldn't be, risking your health.
当然。
Of course.
这种话可不能对艾伦这么说，尤其你这个年纪。
That's the wrong thing to say to Alan at your age.
你根本不能一开口就说这种话。
Like you never start a sentence with that.
随你便吧。
Whatever.
对。
Yeah.
外人总替你担心，但我自己清楚身体状况，其实就是彻底没劲了，问题只在于会恶心多久、有多难受。
You know, people people from the outside fear for you a little bit, but I knew how I was feeling inside and I knew I was just bonking basically, and it was just a question of how kind of nauseous I would feel for how long.
就慢慢来，走一段，跑一段，再走一段，想办法吃点东西，别吐出来，坚持到终点就行。
And just to work it gradually along, walk a bit, jog a bit, walk a bit, try to eat, try to keep something down, and just get to the end.
对。
Yeah.
我为什么要这么做？
Why would I do that?
因为我希望告诉自己，我是个能在困难时咬牙坚持的人。
Because I'm interested in telling myself that I'm the kind of guy who can gut it out when it gets tough.
我就是那种，困难来了也能撑下去的人。
And I'm the guy, I'm the guy who can keep it going when the going gets tough.
我是个说到做到的人。
I'm the guy who does the thing that he says he's going to do.
我这个人会根据实际情况调整自己，不会全盘放弃。
I'm the guy who adjusts his reality to the circumstances, and doesn't throw everything away.
对。
Yeah.
通过这么做，你其实是在训练自己，让自己变得更坚韧。
And by do, by doing that, you sort of program yourself to, to be more tough.
没错。
Mhmm.
我是说，我有些想法想跟你聊聊。我觉得吧，虽然我知道你能坚持下来，也能逼自己一把，但我不建议你直接放弃。
I mean, I just have something to say about that because I think that like, okay, yes, like, I don't think you should have dropped out because, you know, I know that, you know, that you can finish and I know that you can dig deep.
我只是觉得，你可能需要调整一下策略，也许没必要每次都把自己逼到那个份上。
I just think that what you maybe need to learn is, like, maybe you don't need to dig as deep.
因为我看到你进来的时候，真的是在硬撑着跑。
Because I saw you coming in, and you were really forcing yourself to run it in.
我不确定具体是从什么时候开始的，但我觉得大概是从跑了大概几公里之后，你就开始硬撑了。
And I don't know from how long, but I I think that probably it was, like, from a few k that you were trying to run it in.
我感觉就在拐角处。
And I feel like from around the corner.
真的吗？
Really?
对。
Yeah.
所以，你刚才走了最后那10公里吗？
So did you, like, walk the last 10 k?
最后十公里里，我大概走了七公里。
I would say out of the last 10 k, probably walked seven of them.
哦，这样啊。
Oh, okay.
我中间小跑了几段。
I did little jogs.
明白了。
Okay.
加油啊。
Come on.
你再不动身，可要在这儿待很久了。
You're gonna be here for a long time if you don't get moving.
我试着小跑了一下，看看感觉怎么样。
I was trying to jog a little bit, see how it feels.
唉，感觉真不怎么样。
Oh, it doesn't feel very good.
好的。
Okay.
我们再走一段吧。
Let's walk a bit more.
我大概会这么做。
And I would kinda do that.
所以
So
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
因为我看到你跑着进来了，然后就被送到医疗帐篷去了。
Because I saw saw you jogging in, and then when then, you know, get, you know, whisked away to the medical tent.
我就在想，你干嘛非要跑着进去呢？
And I was like, like, why did you why did you have to, like, run it in?
你完全可以走着进去，一样能完赛。
You could have just walked it in and still finished.
结果根本没什么不同。
You would have had the same thing.
你照样能完赛。
You would have finished.
不过我想你当时就是那么做的。
But but I guess you did that.
所以。
So
我最后只是小跑了一下，因为有人在为我加油，那种感觉你懂的。
I only jogged at the end because there were people cheering me, so I felt you know?
你觉得自己好像非得这么做才行。
You felt, like, obliged.
明白了。
Okay.
展开剩余字幕（还有 480 条）
这倒也是。
Well, that's fair.
确实合理。
That's fair.
说实话，要是我在终点，大家都在为我加油，我大概也会这么做，觉得反正都到这儿了。
I mean, I probably would have done the same thing if I was I if was at the end and people were cheering for me, would have been like, okay.
总得给大家点值得加油的理由吧。
I gotta give them something to cheer for.
我感觉拖了团队的后腿。
I'm letting letting the teams down.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
明白。
Okay.
所以，你知道，这正是史蒂夫·马格纳斯《做困难的事》一书的核心所在。
So, you know, that was part of the essence of Do Hard Things by Steve Magness.
对。
Mhmm.
我想我们从中学到的最重要的一点就是什么是真正的坚韧。
And I guess we learned a lot about toughness is, is the takeaway from that.
没错。
And yep.
它到底意味着什么。
And what it really means.
我觉得这本书对每个跑者来说都特别有启发性。
So, I think it's a great book for for every runner because it's, it's pretty eye opening.
我们继续。
Moving on.
对。
Yep.
《天生就会跑》，作者是克里斯托弗·麦克杜格尔和埃里克·奥顿。
Born to Born to Run two by Christopher McDougall and Eric Orton.
对。
Yeah.
挺有意思的，因为克里斯·麦克杜格尔之前来过咱们节目好几次，所以这次感觉很好。
Quite cool because we've had Chris McDougall on a couple of times, so it was good.
就像跟老朋友重新联系上一样。
It's like to get getting back in contact with an old friend.
你知道，尽管克里斯托弗·麦克道格尔相对挺有名，毕竟他写了《天生就会跑》，那是史上最畅销的跑步书。
You know, even though, how relatively famous Christopher McDougall is, because he wrote Born to Run the most popular running book ever written.
对。
Yeah.
你知道，只要你联系他，他肯定会来跟你聊聊，毕竟算是你的朋友嘛，朋友之间不就是这样嘛。
That you know he's going to when you when you get in touch with him, you know he's going to come on and and talk with you because he's kinda your buddy and, you know, that's what that's what your buddy does.
所以那真的挺酷的。
So that was really cool.
他们俩都来了。
And they both came.
埃里克也到场了。
Eric was there too.
这真是太好了。
So that was really good.
而且确实如此。
And, yeah.
《天生就会跑2》并不是《天生就会跑》故事的延续。
So Born to Run two, it's it's, it's not, it's not a continuation of the story in Born to Run.
它更像是一本《天生就会跑》的训练指南。
It's more like a training manual for, Born to Run.
没错。
Yeah.
克里斯·麦克杜格尔当初是怎么为《天生就会跑》里的那次跑步做准备的？他特别看重哪些训练方法？
Sort of how did Chris McDougall get ready to do the run that he did in Born to Run and what sort of training aspects does he value?
而且埃里克还当了他的教练。
And Eric being his coach.
对。
Mhmm.
没错。
Yeah.
这挺有意思的，因为你知道，克里斯托弗·麦克杜格尔总能把他那些故事融入到任何事情里。
And, it was cool because, they're obviously because, you know, Christopher McDougall always finds a way to get stories into everything.
一路上确实有不少故事，因为有些人物的后续情况，你慢慢就了解了。
So there were definitely stories along the way because some of the characters, you kind of found out what happened to them.
这挺棒的，毕竟已经过去十年了。
So so that was pretty cool because it's, you know, it's a decade later.
十年时间，能发生的事可太多了。
I mean, a lot happens in a decade.
不过我觉得，现在有些人可能对极简主义跑步这一套有点反感了，毕竟十年前，甚至更早一点，这曾经是个挺火的趋势。
But I guess I'll just say that I think, like, some people are turned off by the minimalist running thing as much as it was, you know, a trend, like, ten years ago or or maybe a little bit more now.
对。
Yeah.
现在完全反过来了。
Now it's, like, completely the opposite.
我觉得这本书的重点其实不是极简跑法，而是如何打好身体基础，比如加强脚部和脚踝的力量。
And I would say that, like, the book is not about minimalist running as much as it is about building a strong foundation, which includes, like, foot and ankle strength.
所以就是这样。
So Yeah.
不过要做到这一点的话，很多练习都是赤脚的，比如他们会让你像赤脚在草地上做短距离冲刺之类的练习。
Although to do that, then, you know, the exercises a lot of times will be barefoot, or like they will say, to do things like barefoot strides in the grass and things like that.
这样做是为了锻炼你的韧带力量，纠正落地姿势，这些都是科学证明对你有益、能让你脚底更贴近地面时表现更好的方法。
Because of that is to sort of build your ligament strength and your proper interception and all good things that are scientifically proven to be useful to you and work better when you're more contacted with the ground.
没错，确实是这样。
Exactly, yeah.
所以我想，因为我在社交媒体上看到过，当克里斯托弗·麦克道尔和埃里克·奥尔托在Instagram上发《天生就会跑》相关内容时，有很多帖子都跟Xero Shoes有关，这是一家极简风格的跑鞋品牌。
So I think, because I know on social media, when you see Christopher McDougall and Eric Orto, and they're Born to Run to sort of Instagram, like there's a lot of posts that they're affiliated with Xero Shoes, which is like a minimalist running brand.
不过，你知道的，这本书的意思其实是，是的，它会讲到如何穿着对跑姿影响最小的装备跑步。
But, you know, the book is I mean, yes, it talks about, you know, running in something that alters your running gait as little as possible.
但我觉得，任何人都能从这本书里受益，因为它的内容远不止于此。
But I I would say that anyone can benefit from the book because it's more than that.
它里面包含了一些练习动作。
It's, you know, it's got exercises.
实际上，我觉得如果你刚跑完目标赛事，不知道接下来该做什么；或者你在备赛期间受过轻伤，现在比赛结束了，正在考虑如何恢复，这本书都会很有帮助。
And actually, I would say that if you're either you just finished your goal race and you don't know what to do next, or if, like, you're injured or you've been slightly injured during your buildup, but your race is done and, you know, you're kind of wondering how what to do for recovery.
我的意思是，你可能要做的一件事是专注于某个计划。比如有个九十天的训练方案，里面包含各种动作和练习，目的是帮你逐步开始跑步。
I mean, maybe one of the things that you do is you focus There's like a ninety day sort of training plan, which involves all kinds of movements and things to try and get you running.
对，不只是跑步，还包括强化训练、提升灵活性的练习、营养计划等等，你知道的，是一种比较全面的整体性方案。
Yeah, not just running, but also strengthen, strengthen mobility training, nutritional programs, you know, a sort of holistic type of program.
确实。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我觉得，如果你想在休赛期调整一下重心，比如从头开始重新构建自己的跑步能力，那这本书可能会对你很有帮助。
So I think, you know, people can maybe benefit from that if they feel like they wanna shift focus for a little while being in off season and maybe, like, rebuild their running from the ground up.
这就是我从中得到的主要收获。
So that's kind of the, that's kind of what what I got out of this.
至于我们从中汲取并融入自己训练的内容，我们做了一些岩石龙虾训练。
In terms of, like, what what we got out of it and integrated into our own training, it was, we did some some rock lobster sessions.
对。
Yeah.
所以如果你不知道那是什么
So if you don't know what that
我在这儿把笔记都记全了，Liz。
is Covering all my notes here, Liz.
哦，抱歉啊。
Oh, sorry about that.
那挺好的。
That's good.
我们显然想法完全一致。
We're obviously we're obviously all of one mind.
来给我们讲讲这个岩石龙虾训练法吧，Liz？
Tell us about what's the rock rock lobster, drill, Liz?
具体说说看。
Tell us about it.
这个岩石龙虾训练法是由B52这个团队设计的。
So so you play rock lobster by b fifty two is the is the group.
因为我是的。
Because I yeah.
我我你知道吗？
I don't I you know what?
这个
This
这是我第一次听到这首歌，但你直接在 Spotify 上搜 rock lobster 就行。
this was the first time I'd ever heard this song, but you can just go on Spotify and and type in rock lobster.
它会显示出一首歌。
It's gonna bring up a song.
那首歌呢，你要做的是配合它的节奏来练习你的步伐，然后你需要找个东西抵住脚，这样你就没法往后退。
And that song, what you do is it's gonna it's gonna be the the cadence of your drill, and you're gonna have your backup against something that's not gonna allow you to kick back with your feet.
所以我们当时是在停车场外面做的这个练习，就在跑步之前，我们就用了艾伦的车。
So we used because we were doing this outside in the parking lot before the run, so we used Alan's car.
我们用了车。
We used cars.
对。
Yeah.
不只是艾伦的车。
Not just Alan's car.
我想是大家的车。
I guess everybody's cars.
然后你就跟着《摇滚龙虾》的节奏原地踏步。
And and you just run-in place to the cadence of Rock Lobster.
其实还挺有意思的，因为——
And it's actually kind of fun because Yeah.
你听着音乐，看起来却特别滑稽，路过的人都会觉得你疯了。
Because you're listening to music, and then you look really ridiculous to anybody that's walking by.
但如果你是一群人一起做，那就特别搞笑。
But if you're in a gang, it's it's it's pretty funny.
另外，如果能做到的话，把鞋子脱掉。
Also, if you can do it, take your take your shoes off.
如果有草地，或者在室内靠墙，就把鞋脱了。
So if you've got some grass or you're indoors against a wall, take your shoes off.
好处是，你会自然地摆出正确的姿势，因为跟着节奏跑，又没穿鞋，脚掌落地会更准确，尤其是当你不能往后踢腿的时候。
And, the cool thing is that you go automatically into a good form because you're going at the cadence speed and you got your shoes off, you go into a barefoot type of form where you plant, especially if you can't kick your legs back, plant correctly.
这真是练习跑步姿势的绝佳方式。
So, and, it's a super fun way to do some form practice.
跑前做一会儿，歌就在脑子里响着，帮你重新调整姿势、节奏和脚部动作。
Do that just before you go for a run, then you've got the song playing in your head and reprograms your your form, your cadence, and your and your foot movements.
对。
Yep.
挺有意思的。
Pretty neat.
是的。
Mhmm.
从《天生跑者》这本书里，我还学到了另一件事：现在我去健身房做力量训练的时候，会专门安排力量练习。
The other thing I took from Born to Run two was I've now started doing my strength in the gym when we go to do strength work.
我开始赤脚做力量训练了。
I started doing my strength work in bare feet.
好的。
Okay.
基本上，我会脱掉鞋子，穿袜子或者光着脚来做。
Basically, I take my shoes off, I'll do them in socks or in barefoot.
比如我做单腿罗马尼亚硬拉之类的动作时，就是光着脚做的。
So when I'm doing one leg Romanian deadlifts or something like that with a dumbbell, I'll be doing it in bare feet.
我感受到赤脚训练时脚掌着地和本体感觉的好处。
I get the sort of planting of the barefoot and the proprioception.
比赛时我还是会穿竞速鞋，因为跑得更快。
When I'm racing I'll still wear super shoes because you go faster.
没错，就是这样。
Well exactly.
比赛的目的就是尽可能跑快。
And racing is about trying to go fast.
这事儿可不能马虎。
Yeah there's no messing with that.
但做力量训练时你并不追求速度，那为什么不利用赤脚训练多拿点好处呢？
But when you're doing strength work you're not trying to go fast so why would you chance to get the extra benefit of working in bare feet?
是的。
Yep.
完全正确。
Exactly.
接下来我们要聊聊马克·库根和斯科特·道格拉斯的《个人最佳跑步》这本书吗？
Should we go on to Personal Best Running by Mark Coogan and Scott Douglas?
好的。
Yep.
嗯，我从这本书里学到了几件事。
Well, a couple of things that I got out of that.
我是说，里面有很多非常好的训练建议，对。
I mean, there's lots and lots of good training advice and Mhmm.
还有训练计划和方案。
Also, training plans and programs.
对。
Yep.
从一英里到马拉松，所有的训练基本上都有一条明确的目标线。
For everything from the mile to the marathon, it's it's pretty much a goal line.
比如，如果你想为……对。
Like, if you want to train for Yeah.
未来好多年，你都可以拿这本书来参考，它让我有点想起《丹尼尔跑步公式》，因为他也提到过。
For years to come, like, you could just get this book, and there's a whole bunch of it kind of reminded me a little bit of Daniel's Running Formula because he had Yeah.
书中还包含了从800米开始的大量训练计划，我觉得。
Also had, you know, his philosophy, but then also a whole bunch of plans from, I think it was 800 meters.
我觉得这本书更贴近现代一些。
I think this is a bit more modernized.
没错。
Mhmm.
我喜欢马克和斯科特的地方，是马克·库根。
What I liked about Mark and Scott is Mark Coogan.
他是个非常出色的教练。
He's a superb coach.
他确实教得很到位，我知道他带的是波士顿的耐克团队。
I think he coaches well, I know he coaches the New Balance team in in Boston.
没错。
Mhmm.
所以他懂得怎么带队员，但并不太去深究背后那些理论，为什么非得这么做。
And so he knows how to coach, but he doesn't learn lots of the theory around why exactly why he's doing it.
他的训练更多是基于实际研究的。
More research it's based on.
他只知道这么做有效，就必须这么做。
He just knows it's good and he needs to do this.
所以他身边有Scott，算是学术型的，懂这些理论，两人配合得挺好。
And so he has Scott, who's sort of the the academic, who sort of knows the stuff, and then they combined.
让我印象最深的是Mark Coogan，他带的是美国顶尖队伍之一，但人却特别随和，放松又体贴。
What impressed me about Mark Coogan was how he's an elite team coach, like one of the best teams in The USA, but he's actually, you know, seemed pretty laid back, like quite sort of relaxed and caring.
关于Salazar和耐克的事，咱们已经说得够多了。
You know, we've done the story to death probably now about Salazar and Nike.
他完全不一样。
He's like the opposite.
他就像
He's like the
对，正是这样。
the exact Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，他一开始就提到，连续十周进行高质量的B+级别训练，远比四周的A+级别训练效果好得多。
You know, the first thing that he came in with was, yeah, ten weeks of solid b plus running is much better than four weeks of a plus.
确实如此。
Mhmm.
所以别总想着把每次训练都做到完美。
So don't try to A plus all your training all the time.
你要追求的是那种能长期坚持的事情，因为持之以恒比偶尔的高水平表现更重要。
What you're going for is to be able to do something that you can maintain because consistency trumps, high end quality.
确实是这样。
Yep.
这点挺让人意外的，毕竟作为顶尖教练，大家通常以为他们会拼命压榨每一分潜力。
Which is kind of amazing from an elite coach where you'd think, they'd be pushing like getting every little inch out of everything.
对，但他其实并不那样做。
Yeah, but no he doesn't.
还有另外一点让我印象特别深刻，就是他想为团队营造的那种氛围。
And the fact that as well the other the other thing that impressed me that I found like wow was the environment he tries to create with his team.
所以他把耐力跑当成一项团队运动来看待，无论是从训练方式还是训练理念的角度来说。
So he has a group and he treats I think he treats endurance running as a team sport from that point of view in terms of training and how training works.
这让我们慢慢意识到，因为我们一起参加了这个为期三小时的马拉松训练计划，而且持续了很长时间，是一起练下来的。
Mean we we sort of have come to understand that because we've been on this three hour training program for three hour marathon training program of various degrees for ages, and we've done it together.
我觉得有一件事我们很感激，也希望你们同样感激。
And I think one of the things we've appreciated, I hope you've appreciated.
我确实很感激这一点，就是能在一起，有个互相督促的伙伴，还有个可以一起讨论训练的人。
I've certainly appreciated is being together and having, you know, an accountability buddy and a training person to discuss with.
他在聊个人最佳成绩训练时提到过一件事：每当有新队员加入，他只会接纳那些其他队员都认可、并且愿意接纳的人。
One of the things he said during our talk on personal best training is when he gets new people into the team, he will only take them if the rest of the team say that they're good and they want them.
对。
Yeah.
我记得这事。
I remember that.
对。
Yeah.
因为他
Because he
他不想破坏团队的氛围。
He doesn't wanna ruin team dynamic.
没错。
Exactly.
是啊。
Yeah.
他还专门谈过训练环境的影响。
And he has a whole section on the impact of your training environment.
他所说的环境，就是你身边那些人。
And what he means by environment is, you know, the the people that you surround yourself with.
而且，是的。
And Yeah.
而且，我的意思是，当然，环境也包括像训练设施，或者能不能去高原训练之类的。
And not just I mean, obviously, there's also environment like like, you know, facilities you can train at, or if you can go to altitude and all those things.
但对我们大多数人来说，那些都不是我们能改变的，不过我们可以改变周围的环境，比如身边的人，从那些不鼓励我们的人，变成那些鼓励我们的人，或者我们喜欢的人。
But those, for most of us, are not really anything we can change, but we can change sort of our environment, like the people that surround us from people that don't encourage us to people that do encourage us or, you know, people that that we like.
其实，我觉得他说的就是，要和自己喜欢的人在一起。
Actually, I think this is what he says something about about surrounding yourself with, like, people whose company you like.
而且
And
这对他来说似乎很重要。这一点其实很少被提到，但我认为很多跑者都能产生共鸣，是的。
that seems to be an important thing for him, which which, you know, is not really anything that that is mentioned very often, but it's something that I think a lot of runners can can sort of relate to because Yeah.
我们大家都会这样做。
We we all do that.
你知道的，我们都有自己的跑友。
You know, we have our running buddies.
我知道很多人都是独自跑步，但一旦开始和朋友一起跑，感觉就不一样了。
I know a lot of people run on their own, but once you start running with buddies, it it's it's like I don't know.
确实不一样。
It's it's different.
我是说，下班后去见见朋友，一起跑跑步，挺有意思的。
I mean, it's fun to go and meet your friend after work and, you know, get your run-in.
有时候甚至不太想跑，但跑完以后，两个人都会觉得挺开心的。而且有个伴儿可以聊聊想法，不管是训练还是生活上的事都行。
And even sometimes you don't feel like it, but by the end, like, you're both, like, pretty happy about what you did and just have someone to bounce ideas off of, even if it's about training or life or whatever.
昨晚我其实挺不想跑的。
Last night I was feeling like, yeah, don't really fancy this much.
我就在那儿慢跑呢，你和安德烈——你老公——突然从后面赶上来说，我就问，你们干嘛呢？
And I was just sort of jogging along when you and Andre, your husband sort of came up behind and said, and I said, oh, what are you doing?
他说，我们要做几组加速跑。
He said, oh, we're gonna do some strides.
我想，行，那我也加入吧。
So I thought, okay, I'll be in that.
到最后，我感觉特别有活力，整个人都精神起来了。
And by the end, I was feeling like quite energized and quite sort of quite up.
对。
Yep.
你那时候看着特别有劲儿，蹦蹦跳跳的。
You were looking pretty bouncy by
是啊。
the Yeah.
我就跟着跑起来了。
Was popping along.
不是的。
No.
其实也没那么糟。
This is not so bad.
对。
Yeah.
所以书里有一句我记下来的话，我觉得对咱们所有的听众来说，都挺有启发的。
So there was one quote that I had written down from the book that I think is a good message to, maybe all of our listeners.
这句话出自书的开头部分。
And, it was from the beginning section of the book.
它说，很多在学校里没怎么跑步的成年人，自然而然地会倾向于参加长距离比赛，因为他们觉得自己跑不快，但能坚持跑下去。
So it said lots of adults who didn't run-in school automatically gravitate towards long road races because they think that they're not fast but can keep going.
事实上，很多跑马拉松的人，从基因上来说可能更适合短距离比赛。
Odds are that many people in the marathons are more genetically suited to shorter races.
不试试怎么知道呢。
You don't know if you don't try.
我想我记下这句话是因为确实如此。
And I guess I wrote this quote down because I felt like that is really the case in Yeah.
你知道，我们常一起跑步的其他跑者，还有我带过的学员，有时候大家想的总是，比如，我跑了五公里，那能不能再跑十公里？
You know, a lot of other runners that that we run with, but also in runners I've coached is, you know, sometimes it's just always about, well, can I like, okay, so I did five k, now can I do 10?
然后能不能再挑战半马？
And now can I do half marathon?
对。
Yeah.
不过，其实你没必要进步得那么快。
But like, you don't need to, you don't need to progress that quickly.
然后，你知道的，也许你会进步得那么快。
And then, you know, maybe, or maybe you do progress that quickly.
也许你确实先跑了五公里，然后十公里，接着半马，最后全马。
Maybe you did do a five k, and then you did a 10 k, and then you did a half marathon, and then you did a marathon.
但现在回过头来看看五公里，你会发现自己的进步有多大。
But now come back to the five k and see how much better you've gotten.
对。
Yeah.
因为总的来说，训练不同距离的跑步是有好处的，这就是想传达的意思。
Because it's, you know, it's beneficial to to train for different distances, basically, is the message.
是的。
Yeah.
我还注意到一件事，不知道你同不同意，就是俱乐部里的人很少去想，跑得快一点其实也很重要。
And and, you know, one of the things one of the things I see is I don't know whether you agree, is that people in clubs don't think about how running a little bit really fast.
他们总觉得，哎，去年我还窝在沙发上，今年就能跑五公里了，于是就只盯着五公里、十公里这些距离。
They kind of go, oh, you know, I was on the couch last year and now I'm running a five k and it becomes like five k or 10 ks.
跑步变成了一种比距离的游戏。
It becomes a distance game.
对。
Mhmm.
进步的标准变成了
Progression is measured by
我能跑得更远吗？
Can I go further?
是的。
Yeah.
我能跑得更远吗？
Can I go further?
但我更觉得，如果他们在每周的训练里加入一些短距离冲刺，哪怕只是短短几段快跑，进步反而会更大。
Whereas I rather think if they injected a little bit of strides or, you know, hard, fast, tiny portions within their week that they would probably progress much better.
等他们跑十公里的时候，速度自然就更快了。
When they went up to 10 k, they'd be faster.
对。
Yep.
这只是我的看法。
But that's just me.
我觉得独自跑步的人往往会陷入这个问题。
I think that's that's sort of the the issue that people that run by themselves get into.
因为你知道，在俱乐部里，大家终究是有规律训练的。
Because, you know, in a club, you do end up having trainings.
所以训练内容会根据计划安排，自然就包含了各种不同的项目。
And so you'll do, like, a certain amount of variety depending on, like, whatever was programmed in the training.
到某个阶段，训练里就会安排一些间歇跑。
Will give you some intervals at some stage.
没错。
Exactly.
对。
Yeah.
然后呢，到最后，不管你喜欢不喜欢，你都会去做这些训练，因为你得去参加这些练习。
And then, like, eventually, you'll kind of, you know, end up doing them whether you like it or not because you're showing up to these practices.
不过我觉得，对于那些一直独自跑步、可能从来没加入过跑团的人，也许你是为了健康才开始跑步的，然后不知不觉间，跑步就像占用你时间一样，占据了你的生活。
But I think when when you're a runner that runs, that's always run on their own, and maybe never been part of a club, maybe you started running for health reasons, and you just like, you know, it took over your life kind of like it it has taken over hours.
所以我觉得，那些可能就是这类人。
And so I think I think those are the people that that may be, like, there.
而且在这种情况下，你的目标基准就变成了，嗯，我现在能不能跑得再远一点？
And with reason, your benchmark just becomes, well, now can I go further?
比如，我能不能去跑个十公里、马拉松，甚至超级马拉松？
Like, can I can I go, you know, can I do 10 and marathon and ultra marathon?
然后接着想，我还能做什么？我到底能跑多远？
And now can I, you know, what else can I, how, how much further can I run?
这没什么不对的。
And nothing's wrong with that.
只是如果你能回头再跑跑短距离，说不定会重新爱上那些长跑。
It's just that you might actually in like, continue enjoying your long runs if you if you try and come back to some of those shorter runs.
因为有时候，老是逼着自己突破之前的记录，真的会让人很累。
Because I think also sometimes, like, it it it wears you down, you know, to always have to have to Yeah.
总得比上一次跑得更远。
Be better than than your previous benchmark.
我觉得有时候你真该放松一下。
I think sometimes you just have to
我觉得这时候，我得推荐一下公园跑。
And I guess at this point, I would put a plug in for Park Run.
我们一周前去参加了当地的公园跑五公里，感觉挺不一样的。
We all went and did the local Park Run five k a week ago, and it's kind of changing it up.
公园跑的风格很随意，而且免费。
And the style of Park Run is it's very low key, and it's free.
对。
Mhmm.
如果你还不知道这是什么，去电脑里搜一下 parkrun,1word,.com 看看。
If you don't know what it is, type parkrun,1word,.com into your computer and have a look.
英国人都知道这个，但如果你在北美的话，可能就不太了解了。
Everyone in The UK knows what it is, but if you're in North America, you might not.
是的。
Yeah.
它基本上是由志愿者组织的免费五公里跑步活动，每周都有。
It's basically a free five k organized by volunteers, and they're every week.
你可以去参加，挑战一下自己。
You can go along and test yourself.
不过它的氛围很轻松，如果你不想挑战自己，也可以只是去跑跑。
Or the nature of it is it's very low key, and you can just go along and not test yourself if you want.
对。
Yeah.
但这确实是个改变节奏的好办法。
But it's a it's a great way of changing it up.
对。
Yeah.
如果你平时都是自己跑步，那这可是个不错的机会，能和别人一起跑，说不定还能认识其他跑友。
And maybe if you always run by yourself, it's a great way to go, like, run with other people and maybe meet other runners.
是的。
Yeah.
每次跑完之后，大家都会聚在一起喝咖啡聊天。
There's always coffee and chat afterwards.
哦？每次跑完都有咖啡喝？
Oh, is there there's always coffee afterwards?
原来如此。
Oh, okay.
我之前不知道
I didn't
我不知道这回事。
know that.
那是我第一次参加，所以我不知道还有这回事。
I that was my that was my first one, so I didn't know that
这很正常。
was okay.
我在三个不同的国家参加过11次公园跑，每次结束后都有咖啡喝。哦。
I've run 11 park runs in three different countries, and there's always been coffee Oh.
跑完之后。
Afterwards.
哦，那挺好的。
Oh, well that's nice.
好的。
Okay.
我觉得这就是大家喜欢社交吧。
I think that's just people being sociable.
我觉得规则里没规定跑完必须喝咖啡。有些人特别随性，你几乎可以在跑步过程中就喝咖啡。
I don't think it's in the rules that you have to have coffee afterwards, some of people are so laid back you could almost have coffee during.
好的。
Okay.
我们进入下一个话题了吗？
Are we on to the next one?
是的。
Yes.
我们是。
We are.
以最佳状态到达起跑线，作者是 Eoin Everard。
Get to the line in the best shape possible by Eoin Everard.
那么，Liz，你从这次活动中获得了什么？
So what what did you get from this, Liz?
好的。
Okay.
那我简单总结一下。
So I guess I'll just summarize it a little bit.
里面有很多文章都是关于跑者们常问的话题。
It's a lot of our articles about topics that runners have questions about.
他把内容分成了生活方式、跑步训练，还有辅助训练这几块。
He divides it into, you know, like lifestyle, run training, supplemental training.
我记下来一句挺有感触的话，就先从这个开始吧：目标就是带时间线的梦想。
And I guess one quote I had written down, so I'll just start with that, a goal is a dream with a timeline.
我很喜欢这一点。
I love that.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
所以总之，就是这样，我能理解你的意思。
So anyway, that was like, yeah, I see that.
是的。
Yeah.
说到底就是这么回事。
That's really what it is.
但我从中得到的启发是，他提到一个部分，讲运动员如何保持健康，他反复强调一致性，跟其他一些书里的观点挺像的。
But what I got out of it was there was a section he talked about how athletes stay healthy because, you know, he talks about he talks a lot about, like, being consistent, sort of like some of the other books.
你懂的。
You know?
保持一致性，这才是决定你能否进步的关键。
Being consistent, that's what's gonna define if you're gonna progress.
所以，显然，保持健康就能让你更稳定地训练，而顶尖选手在这方面特别出色。
And so, obviously, staying healthy means that you're gonna be more consistent, and the elites are really good at staying healthy.
但他们做到这一点的方式其实有点枯燥，就是吃得健康。
And, it's a little boring how they do do that, because it's like good nutrition.
找教练帮忙。
Get, get help from a trainer.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Yep.
对，就是那个原因。
The for yeah.
你得去健身房做做训练，这样才能保持健康。
You need to, you know, get to the gym and do, you know, gym work so that you can make sure that you stay healthy in that way.
去争取积极的社交支持，这个我们之前其实也聊过。
Recruit positive social support, which we actually kind of talked about.
我打算
I'm gonna
被大家招募。
get on recruited by everybody.
你就这点本事吗？
Is that all you got?
这就是你能做到的最好程度了吗？
Is that the best you can do?
哎呀，天哪。
Oh, dear me.
你是不是得用那种老年人助行器了？
Do you need one of those old age people walkers?
我给你弄一个来。
I'll provide you with one.
这通常是我给别人提供的鼓励。
This is my encouragement usually that I provide for people.
对。
Yeah.
不过我是说，如果你能让他们笑出来，那总是好的。
But I mean, I guess if you make them laugh, then that's always good.
就是这个意思。
It's the idea.
医生的作用应该比药物本身更重要。
Doctor is supposed to be better than medicine or whatever.
欧因特别热衷于跑步普拉提，他甚至自己发展出了一套小小的分支体系，还开课做示范。
Something that Eoin was very, very keen on was Runner's Pilates, which he sort of developed a sort of a little sub branch of Pilates himself and he gives classes and demos.
所以他有这套方法。
So he had that.
另外他还有一个特别的东西，就是一种护腰带。
And the other unique thing that he had was some sort of back belt,
护腰带
a belt
用来保护腰部的。
for your back.
可以增强背部力量，保持脊柱健康。
So you have back strength and back health.
我记得他在播客里说过，他写这本书其实有点偷懒，把以前给各种杂志和报纸写的文章攒在一起，就成书了。
I think he says during our podcast, oh, I kind of cheated on the book because I took all the articles that I'd written for various magazines and newspapers and things, and compiled them into a book.
不过话说回来，他还把这本书免费提供给别人。
But having said that, then offered people the book for free.
只要去他的网站注册，就能免费下载。
If they'd go to his website and sign up on his website, they could have a free download.
我觉得这挺酷的。
I thought that was pretty cool.
我知道我们俱乐部里有些人也用了这个福利。
I know some people from our club availed themselves of that.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
然后
And
他就去买了那本书。
That's then went and got themselves a copy of the the book.
里面有很多图表，对视觉型学习者来说很友好，当然也适合其他人阅读。
And it's got diagrams, and it's a good visual learner's book as well as not, you know,
毕竟是需要读文字的内容。
words to read.
而且它像是一篇篇独立的文章，你不需要从头到尾通读。
And because it's like articles, you don't really have to read a cover to cover.
对。
No.
读个五六页，就能把整个独立的部分看完。
Can read like five pages and you've got a whole whole thing, self contained, whole aspect.
对。
Yeah.
下次想接着看的时候，还能读下一章，挺方便的。
You can read the next one next time you wanna visit, which was pretty cool.
我很喜欢Eoin。
I liked Eoin a lot.
他非常有活力，还带着一口出色的爱尔兰口音。
He was very dynamic and had a fantastic Irish accent.
对。
Yes.
没错。
Yes.
而且他显然对跑步充满热情。
And obviously very passionate about running.
所有东西都跟跑步有关。
Like, everything Yeah.
每件事都跟帮助跑者有某种联系。
Everything had, like, some relationship to helping runners.
他自己跑得也特别快，我觉得。
So And extremely quick himself, I think.
他跑五公里能进十五分钟，是国家级的水平。
He's like a sub fifteen minute five k runner, like national class.
我觉得他会代表爱尔兰参赛。
I think he'd run for Ireland.
对。
Mhmm.
所以
So
没错。
Yep.
所以他跑得是真的快。
So he's he's fast.
他是真的说到做到。
He walks the talk.
没错。
Yep.
他对自己说的这些内容门儿清。
He knows what he's talking about.
接下来是《奔跑》，由 Gestalten 出版。
Next On the Run published by Gestalten.
没有，你听起来不太确定，当你念出
No he didn't sound you didn't sound very sure when you pronounced
对，因为，是的，我猜你会纠正我，因为应该是 Gestalten 或者类似的词。
Yeah, because, yeah, I figured that you were gonna correct me because it should be Gestalten or something like that.
我不知道。
I don't know.
其实我也没头绪。
Actually got no idea.
好的。
Okay.
这是一家德国的出版公司。
It's a German publishing company.
既然是德国的，我觉得应该是 Gestalten。
Given that it's German, I think it would be Gestalten.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
不错。
Good.
第一次就猜对了，真有意思。
Got it right on the first Interesting.
是的。
Yeah.
你答对了。
You got it right.
但你说话的语气，好像并不觉得自己答对了。
But you didn't you didn't sound like you thought you got it right, though.
对，我没觉得我答对了。
No, I didn't.
不，我本该那样做的，我本该像……你知道他们
No, I should have, I should have like, you know how they
那个转折是怎么开始的。
the turn gets started.
这样行吗？
Is that okay?
对，我当时有点紧张，我在心里做好了被艾伦各种纠正的准备。
Yeah, I was just kind of, I was like, I was bracing myself for the onslaught of Correction by Alan.
那肯定挺有意思的。
That would have been fun.
我们现在算是互相熟悉了。
And we're getting to know each other now.
我们有些词挺逗的，我来让你试试，哪怕我知道怎么读。
We have funny words, I'll let you have a go, even if I know how to pronounce it.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yep.
你让我正好掉进陷阱里了。
You just let me walk right into the trap.
所以我想说，既然这期节目是在十二月播出。
So I guess I'll say that, you know, since since this, episode is coming out in, in December.
是的。
Yeah.
圣诞节前。
Pre Christmas.
这个就像圣诞礼物一样。
This one is like a Christmas gift
没错。
Absolutely.
这是一本质量很好的书，因为是精装的，里面还收录了各种赛事。
Quality book because it's it's a hardcover, and it's got all kinds of races in it.
对。
Yeah.
它跟咱们之前评过的一本书挺像的，也是那种概念差不多、适合放在茶几上翻看的画册。
It's similar to another book that we had reviewed in the past that was also kind of like, look, same idea, coffee table book.
不过里面的比赛项目不一样。
It's not the same races.
就算你已经有那本了，这两本也都可以留着，因为《On the Run》这本确实挺特别的。
Even if you have that other one, can have both because, yeah, On the Run is,
特别酷。
it's very cool.
里面还有很多很棒的照片，各种不同主题的大幅彩色照片。
It's got a lot of good photographs as well, a lot of big color photographs of different stuff.
我觉得就像你说的，这是一本咖啡桌书。
And I think, as you say, it's a coffee table book.
送给别人当礼物特别合适，里面满满的都是灵感。
It's a great gift for people and it's just packed full of inspiration.
确实是这样。
It is.
你看看这些不同类型的比赛，距离各不相同，地点也五花八门，看了真让人觉得挺不错的。
Look at all the all the different runs of different types and different distances and different places, and you just think, oh, that's nice.
哦，不是的。
Oh, no.
这个更好。
That's that's better.
哦，看看这个。
Oh, look at that.
哦，挺酷的。
Oh, that's quite cool.
哦，等一下。
Oh, hang on.
这个我看过。
I've done that one.
对，是的。
Oh, yeah.
我记得那个。
I remember that.
对。
Yeah.
所以我要跟你们说说我关于这本书写了什么，然后再讲讲我写完它之后上网查了查，发生了什么事。
So I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what I wrote about this book, and then I'm gonna tell you what happened after I wrote about it and I went on the Internet.
好的。
Okay.
好的。
Okay.
所以，我写那本书的时候，真的特别想参加里面提到的一个比赛，叫作“Grand to Grand Ultra”。这个比赛全程275公里，分六个赛段，在七天内完成。我之前在我们的播客节目里也聊过这个。
So so I wrote that this book really made me want to do a race that was in it called the Grand to Grand Ultra, which is 275 kilometers in six stages over seven days, and I talked about it in our podcast episode.
那就是我选定的目标。
That was the one I had chosen.
我记得。
I remember.
路线经过大峡谷，最后终点在犹他州的某个地方。
It's got, like, on the Grand Canyon, and then it ends in somewhere in Utah.
在犹他州。
In Utah.
对。
Yeah.
沿途全是那种特别漂亮的红色岩地貌。
But it's all the, like, like, beautiful, like, red rock scenery.
是啊。
Yeah.
你去过莫阿布，肯定爱上了那里。
Since you've gone to Moab, you're absolutely in love
我简直爱死了那个区域。
I'm with so in love with that with with that that whole area.
对。
Yeah.
而且它是自助式的。
So so and it's self supported.
他们会提供水，但你需要自己带食物。
So they do give you water, but you need to carry your own food.
就像撒哈拉沙漠马拉松那样。
It's like marathon des sabres.
对。
Yeah.
就是那种得自己带干粮，但他们会提供水的风格。
Like kind of style where you have to carry your own calories, but they will bring you water.
沿途他们会给你供水。
They'll give you water along the route.
先稍微停一下。
Just a small pause here.
对。
Yeah.
你读马拉松沙漠越野赛
Your pronunciation on marathon des sables
的
is
发音简直完美。
absolutely impeccable.
哦，谢谢。
Oh, thanks.
太棒了。
Fantastic.
那如果我们不知道Gestalten或者Gestalten怎么读，那Martin des Sables的发音呢？
So if we don't know how to pronounce Gestalten or Gestalten, the pronunciation for Martin des Sables.
对，至少还是有点好处的。
Yeah, at least it got something good.
这真是太棒了。
It's absolutely fantastic.
对。
Yeah.
好的，不错。
Okay, good.
至少这一点我没错。
At least I got that right.
我的意思是，你知道的，我对法语相关的东西应该能接受才对。
I mean, you know, I should be, you know, okay with things that are French.
我这是在给你打气呢。
That's me being that's me being encouraging.
好吧。
Okay.
我们刚才说到哪儿了？
Where were we?
我们刚才说到哪儿了？
Where were we?
我本来还想说，如果你哪天想跟我一起跑，艾伦，我保证一路上能给你带够你需要的橙色恐龙小玩意儿。
So I was gonna say I also wrote that if you wanted to do it with me one day, Alan, I promised that I could bring all the orange dinosaur stash that you will need along the way.
真是噩梦。
Nightmare.
不过也许首先，得让你能顺利跑完魁北克超级越野赛，而且别进医疗帐篷。
But maybe first, we have to get you through the the Quebec Mega Trail without going into the medical tents.
然后我们可以再回头聊聊这个话题。
And then we can maybe, like, revisit this discussion.
所以在我写完那段之后，我有点跑题了，因为这种情况经常发生。
So after I I wrote that, I got I got a little sidetracked because that's what happens.
我上网搜了Grand to Grand Ultra，去了他们的官网，看了他们的网站和那些超棒的照片。
And I went in and I googled Grand to Grand Ultra to go to their website, and I was looking at their website and their spectacular photos.
然后我看到了他们的专区。
And then I saw their section.
他们有一个板块，首先，里面有一些像足部护理、自我护理之类的建议，你知道的，比如怎么照顾自己。
There is a section that they had called well, first of all, they have things like like foot care, self care, you know, taking
基本上就是生存指南。
How to survive, basically.
还有怎么避开响尾蛇。
Rattlesnake avoidance.
哦，原来是这样。
Oh, okay.
所以基本上，他们有个板块叫动物区。
So so basically, they have a section called fauna.
在那个板块里，有一张巨大毛茸茸蜘蛛的照片。
And in that section in that section, there is a picture of a huge hairy spider.
基本上就是说，蝎子和蜘蛛是你在亚利桑那和犹他沙漠地区需要留意的生物。
And and and basically, it says scorpions and spiders are some of the critters you should be aware of during your time in the Arizona, Utah Desert.
然后
And
所以你是打算不去了。
So you're out then.
不是。
No.
我觉得，我是说，我觉得那些照片还有回去一趟的计划还是很有吸引力的。
I I think, like so so I think the pictures and going back there would still be appealing.
我只是得好好研究一下怎么避开那些大毛蜘蛛和蝎子。
I just need to do a lot of research on how to avoid big hairy spiders and and scorpions.
也许窍门就是，首先，我肯定跑不进前列。
And maybe the trick is that, like, first of all, I won't be in the top runners.
我只需要跟在某个能帮我吓跑它们的人后面就行。
I just need to stay behind someone that's gonna scare them all away for me.
我是这么想的。
Like, so I think
你平时都睡哪儿啊？
Where where do you sleep?
睡他们提供的帐篷里。
In a tent that they provide.
对。
Yeah.
睡袋我保证进去之前会好好抖一抖。
In a sleeping bag that I promise to shake out before I get in.
好的，那你有带
Okay, So do you have a
来个快速演示？
quick demo?
快速演示。
Quick demo.
是莉兹在晃她的包。
It's Liz shaking her bag.
我要像这样晃它。
I'm gonna shake it like this.
要是睡袋里突然掉出一只大蜘蛛，你的脸会是什么表情？
And what does your face look like if a big spider drops out of your bag?
你得看视频才能明白我们刚才在聊什么。
You got to watch the video to work out what we're talking about here.
所以你是睡自己的帐篷，还是睡公共帐篷？
So would you be sleeping in your own tent or would you be sleeping in a shared tent?
我之前没细查过这个，不过要是能睡公共帐篷其实挺好的，那样我就不是一个人了。
So so I didn't look into that much detail but actually it would be really good if we were sleeping in a shared tent because then I would be one of several.
所以，是的。
And so Yes.
这样蝎子爬进我鞋里的概率就小多了，蜘蛛钻进我睡袋里的概率也小多了。
There would be less less probability that the scorpion ends up in my shoes, and less probability that the spider ends up in my sleeping
假设你们俩住一个帐篷，我就是跟你合住的那个人。
say you were sharing a tent, and I was one of the people you were sharing a tent with.
明白吗？
Okay?
半夜的时候，因为……你了解我的。
Sometime in the middle of the night because because you know me.
我有点像你的丈夫，虽然没他那么夸张，但大概也是半夜得钻出睡袋，出去上厕所。
I'm a bit like your husband, not quite as bad, but a bit like sometime in the middle of the night I'm gonna have to get out of my sleeping bag to go outside to pee.
哎呀。
Oh boy.
所以我得从睡袋里出来，把帐篷拉链拉开。
So I'm going to get out of my sleeping bag, I'm going to unzip the tent.
我不会待太久，所以我出去上厕所的时候就把帐篷拉链开着。
I'm not going to be very long, so I'll just leave it unzipped while I'm out there peeing.
哦，不行。
Oh, no.
会有三只蝎子和两只蜘蛛爬进去。
Three scorpions and two spiders will get in.
我很快就回来。
I'll come back.
我会把帐篷拉链拉好，防止它们跑出来，然后我重新钻进睡袋，呼呼大睡，心里美滋滋的。
I'll zip the tent back up so they can't get out, And I get back into my sleeping bag and go suddenly asleep, happy as it can be.
我得查查睡袋是不是得自备。要是必须自带的话，我打算买那种带连体兜帽的，就是那种有抽绳的，你知道吧。
I'll have to research if the sleeping bags are our sleeping bags, because if we have to bring our own, I'm gonna buy one of those ones, you know, that have the hood integrated and you have the drawstring that you can, like yeah.
那这样的话，蜘蛛就只能爬到你的脸上了。
So so spiders can only get on your face.
对啊。
Oh, yeah.
这主意可不太好。
That's not a very good idea.
行。
Okay.
好。
Okay.
那从《On the Run》这本书里，你学到了什么？
So what did you get out of this book, On the Run?
《On the Run》这本书根本没提过蜘蛛，也没讲过这些事，完全跟这本书没关系。
On the Run does not contain any advice on spiders and any advice on it's nothing to do all this chat has nothing to do with On the Run.
我从书里得到的启发是，后来我就去了一趟，我记得在播客里说过，我特别喜欢的地方之一，就是悉尼西边的蓝山。
When I got out of that is I've gone off and I I I was saying, you know, one of the things that I loved, I was saying on the podcast, one of the places that I love are the Blue Mountains in in the West Of Sydney, Australia.
所以我报名参加了一个叫‘六英尺小径马拉松’的比赛，路线穿过澳大利亚蓝山，上下坡特别多，明年三月我就要去跑，前提是得拿到批准。
So I've entered a a race called the six foot track marathon, which runs through a lot of up and down and through the Blue Mountains in in Australia, and I'll be doing that in March next year, assuming that, I get my approval.
我已经交了报名费，希望我能以海外跑者的身份获得优先录取。
But I've I've paid my registration, so I hope I'm I think I got a preferred entry as an overseas.
只要他们收了你的钱，你就算是报名成功了。
I think if they take your money, then then you're in.
我把钱都付了。
I took all my money.
对。
Yeah.
钱一收，就稳了。
They take it.
关于 Bayt 播客
Bayt 提供中文+原文双语音频和字幕，帮助你打破语言障碍，轻松听懂全球优质播客。