艾伦、莉兹和沙亚恩对第121至130期的跑步闲聊与概要

有趣的是，我们做完播客后才注意到，这本书的封面入选了年度最佳体育书籍封面之一，我想是这样。

Interestingly the cover of the book I noticed after we did the podcast, the cover of the book was shortlisted in the best sports books covers of the year, I think.

不是跑步类的体育，

Not not running sports.

是体育类的。

Sports.

对的。

Yeah.

哇哦。

Wow.

它是一个

It's a

封面设计非常简洁，但传达出的力量感很强。

very simple book book cover, but it's very powerful in the way it sort of comes across.

整体是黑白风格，配上一个酷劲十足的跑步者剪影，还拿了不少奖。

It's sort of monochrome with sort of badass runner silhouette on it, and it kinda won won prizes for the Mhmm.

不好意思。

Sorry.

你刚才说的是书的封面，还是书本身？

Did you say the book cover or the book itself?

是封面。

Was It was the cover.

我觉得是书的封面。

I think it was the book cover.

明白了。

Okay.

我得去查一下。

Oh, I have to look that up.

太厉害了。

That's amazing.

《救赎之路》，作者汤姆·菲茨杰拉德。

Road Road to Redemption by Tom Fitzgerald.

这是马特·菲茨杰拉德的父亲写的一本小说。

This is a fictional book by Matt Fitzgerald's dad.

对。

Yep.

这本书花了将近四十年才完成，他四十年前就开始写了，去年才刚写完，是吧？

And it was like forty years in the making because he started it like forty years ago and only finished it what last year?

是的。

Yeah.

是他儿子们鼓励他完成的。

At the encouragement of his sons.

他不止一个儿子。

He's got more than one.

没错。

And yeah.

说到默契，我也特别喜欢他们之间的互动。

I love the chemistry too, speaking of good chemistry.

还有另外一对父子，你能明显感觉到他们互动得很自然，父子之间的这种默契总是让我特别着迷。

Another couple of people who just, you could see they were playing off each other a little bit, and father son chemistry is always fascinating to me.

我就喜欢听他们聊天。

I I like I like just listening to it.

对我来说，这是一段特别暖心的聆听体验。

It was comfort listen for me.

对。

Mhmm.

汤姆·菲茨杰拉德是不是得了帕金森病？

Tom Fitzgerald actually has is it Parkinson's?

我觉得是帕金森病。

I think it's Parkinson's.

是的。

Yeah.

所以马特和肖恩，他的两个儿子，这次也一起上了播客，帮忙陪着他说。

So Matt and Sean, his sons are on the podcast with us just helping him along.

对。

Mhmm.

他偶尔会有点健忘，但整个过程挺有意思的。

Occasionally, he'd have sort of little memory lapses and stuff, but it was pretty fun.

这个故事本身很不错。

And the story is a good story.

波士顿马拉松是其中的一个重要情节。

It has the Boston Marathon as one of the focal focal points.

它讲的不是一个要赢奥运、破纪录的英雄，而是一个有缺陷的人，努力想让自己的人生变得更好。

It's not sort of a it's more a a flawed character who's trying to do something to make good in their life.

不是去赢得什么惊人的大奖，而是做一件对他来说几乎不可能的事。

Not really, like, win the Olympics or, you know, win some amazing prize or world record, but to do something that's seemingly impossible for them.

这种主题还挺有吸引力的。

Which is kind of a fun motif.

是的。

Yeah.

这个剧本挺有意思的。

It's a fun script.

所以，Shayan，你今天在这儿，还没读过这些书吧？因为你后来才加入当联合主持人。

And And so Shayan, here with us, you haven't read these books, guess, because you started to be a co host afterwards.

不过我知道，你确实读过其中一些。

But I know, like, you were reading some of them.

那你更喜欢小说，还是更偏爱励志类的书？

So do you tend to like the fiction, or are you more of a training books guy?

作为读者，还是作为播客听众？

As a reader or listener of the podcast?

作为读者。

As a reader.

因为作为听众，我觉得你什么都会听。

Because as a listener, I think you listen to everything.

对。

Yes.

我会读。

I do.

我喜欢这种风格切换，比如夹杂一本小说，整个氛围会轻松很多，大家聊的是人物，特别有意思。

And I like when the dynamics differ like, when you mix in a fiction, it just feels like things are more laid back and, like, you're you're asking about characters, and it's fun.

而如果是工具书，我们就在提问，努力为自己汲取更多知识。

And then when it's, a training book, we're asking questions, and we're trying to learn more for ourselves.

作为读者，我特别喜欢一本好的小说。

As a reader, I love a good fiction book.

我觉得读起来更顺，但我主要还是为了学习才读书。

I think it's just easier to flow through and read, but I mostly read to learn.

不管是跑步、自我提升、哲学还是商业类的书，我都会读。

So I'll whether it's a running book or or a self help book or philosophy or or business, I'll just read those.

但有时候连续读几本，就会觉得压力有点大，还没来得及消化里面的内容。

But at times, you read a few of them in a row and you feel like it's starting to get heavy and and you haven't processed or I haven't processed all the lessons in it yet.

这时候我就会穿插一本好看的小说，或者根据看过电影改编的书，这样读起来反而更快了。

So then I'll I'll mix in a good fiction book or or a book based on a movie that I watched, and then that just makes me read it faster.

比如我会读一本约翰·格里森姆的精彩小说，然后就能重新投入到其他阅读中。

I'll read a great John Grisham book, for example, and then I'm back into reading something else.

所以这就像是在正餐之间来点甜点一样。

So it's like a it's like a dessert among other readings about our meals.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好问题。

Good question.

我也有同感。

Kind of feel the same.

其实我的想法这些年变了。一开始我特别看重训练类的书，就想把所有训练知识都装进脑子里。但现在我读得多了，发现并不是说我已经学完了所有该学的东西。因为每读一本新书，总会有一些以前没注意到的细节，或者是同样的概念换了一种说法，让我理解得更透彻，或者觉得更贴合我自己的情况，诸如此类。

The thing is I think changed perspective over the years because at first I was very much training book, like I just wanted all of the training information, But I think that I've read so many now and it's not that I've learned everything there is to learn because every time we read a new one, there's some bit of information that like I didn't catch in the other books or that I just didn't, it was said in a different way that maybe like I grasped the concept a little differently or it made it more applicable to me or whatever.

所以我并没有停止从这些书里学习，只是我觉得，也许是因为我年纪大了，或者更准确地说，是我在这个运动项目里待得更久了。

So it's not that I stopped learning from them, it's just that I think that I've, maybe it's also, I don't know, maybe it's like also just getting older and just getting, not older in age, but like older in the sport.

我现在受到的激励，主要来自看到和我同龄的人在做了不起的事。

I feel like my source of inspiration at the moment is very much seeing other people that are my age doing great things.

比如莎拉·霍尔，她是美国很有名的跑者，42岁了还在参加高水平比赛。

So like Sarah Hall, who's like a big name in The US and she still runs competitively at like 42.

我想这是因为我自己也快四十出头了。

And I think the reason for that is because I'm mid-40s now.

以前我从不在意这个年龄，但最近听得越来越多这样的话——不是那种负面的意思，而是别人想帮我减压，觉得我可能对自己要求太高了。

And that's never really mattered to me, except that I've started to hear more and more things like, and not in a bad way, it's just like, it's not people meaning, they mean it as like a way to relieve the pressure that maybe I put on myself.

但我听到的越来越多是：‘你总不能一直年轻吧。’

But I feel like I hear more and more like, well, you know, you're not getting any younger.

我知道这话没错，但就拿跑进三小时马拉松这个目标来说，我还没打算放弃。

And I know that, but like, I, there, so for example, that sub three hour marathon goal, like I'm just not ready to give up on it yet.

我不是天真到以为自己不会变老，我当然在变老，而且我已经跑了二十年了，你坚持做一件事这么久，进步的速度肯定没法跟当初比了，对吧？

And it's not that I'm like delusional that I'm not getting older, like I am, like I know, you know, and I've been running now for like twenty years which that also just you know when you've been doing something for that long your rate of improvement just is not the same as it used to be right?

刚起步的时候，你每次参赛几乎都能进步。

It's like when you're a new runner you're basically improving every time you race.

他根本不懂这些，他还只是个孩子。

He he doesn't understand any of this stuff he's just a kid.

我正在慢慢接近。

I'm getting there.

我正在慢慢接近。

I'm getting there.

我只是想提前跟你们打个招呼，以后十年，比如沙亚，你就会开始体会到。

I'm I I'm just I'm just you know giving you all these heads up for the for later like in ten years Shayan like you're gonna start to

你们不幸没有，但我有的是什么？

And you know what I have that you guys unfortunately have?

就是提前听过类似播客的经验。

The benefit of a podcast I've listened to before it happened.

说实话，像你说的，听这些内容会慢慢积累很多想法，让我对这些概念看得更清楚。

Like, me listening to this, honestly, as you said, it builds all these ideas, and I see the concept more fully.

二十年前、十年前，或者更早，当时在座的各位正处于跑步的黄金年龄，那时候可没这种条件。

And and, know, twenty years ago or ten years ago or however long ago anyone here listening was in their peak of their running age like I am right now, maybe they didn't have that.

也许他们得一本一本认真地读书才能学会。

Maybe they had to read earnestly book by book to learn.

但这里的内容实在太多了，你说得对。

But there's so much content here that you're right.

有时候，我们在听内容的同时，还在刷手机、看文章，信息不断涌入。

Sometimes between the content we're listening to, we're scrolling through, we're reading through, the the articles we're given.

我们不知不觉就积累起了这些想法。

We send we get we tend to build this idea.

就我而言，我不得不从害怕衰老，转变成去审视自己积累的这些知识，明白未来会怎样。

And in my case, particularly, it's I've had to shift myself from fearing, oh, I'm gonna age to look at all this information that I built, and I know what to look forward to.

所以当我进入人生阶段，新陈代谢开始变慢，跑步恢复也不再像以前那样迅速时——

So when I hit a period of my life where my metabolism is already starting to slow down, where running recovery isn't as instantaneous as it used to be.

我不但身边有你们这样的优秀跑者，还能听到你们和其他信息源的分享，清楚该怎么应对。

Well, not only am I surrounded by great runners like you, but I'm also hearing from you and hearing from other source of information, and I know how to face it very well.

所以这确实印证了你的观点：你真的能为这一切做好准备。

So it it it goes it really supports your case where you you really get ready for it.

我觉得现在在这间屋子里的每个人，还有听这个播客的听众，都是跑者中顶尖的那1%，你得真的特别热爱跑步，才会听这个。

And I feel like each of us in this room right now and and the people listening to this podcast who are the 1% of the 1% of runners, like, you gotta be crazy into running to be listening to this.

你已经准备好迎接下一阶段了，因为你有兴趣，也愿意接受新东西，这让你比过去那个不愿学习的自己强多了。

You are ready for whatever the next phase is because you're interested and because you're open minded, and that just makes you a far better runner than the previous version of you would have been if you hadn't been open to learning all this.

是的。

Yeah.

不过，说到我最近更感兴趣的书，也就是你提到的那些，其实是传记类的故事，个人经历的书。

But, yeah, I guess that's well said, but also the books that I guess I've gravitated to more recently, which was the question, are the ones, the stories, like the personal stories, so, you know, the biographies.

有时候甚至是一些小说。

And sometimes even the fiction books.

虽然小说里的人物不是真人，但很多故事却非常真实。

Because yes, the fiction books are not real people, but oftentimes the story is realistic.

我是说，那些跟跑步有关的小说。

I mean, the ones that were about running.

我不是在说科幻类的那种。

So, you know, I'm not talking about like science fiction.

不过就算这些书，很多时候作者也会做很多调研，所以内容是有现实依据的。理论上讲，只要把这种可能性推得足够远，事情是有可能发生的。所以我觉得，有时候即使是虚构小说里的人物，因为他们往往融合了现实中多个人的特质，也能带来启发。

Although even those books, like a lot of times, those authors, they do research and so it's like, it's based on something that, that you know in theory like if you push the theory far enough like it could happen you know so they but yeah I I feel like sometimes even just the characters in the fictional books because they they are they are a mix of traits from real people oftentimes.

所以我最近也比较倾向于看这类书。

I've kind of gravitated towards those.

我觉得从小说里确实能学到不少东西。

There's a lot to gain from fiction books, I think.

我想如果我们现在处于跑步生涯的某个阶段，试图通过其他角色来寻找共鸣和灵感，那么可能光靠学习训练方法带来的启发已经到头了。

I think if we're in a part of our running time where we're we're trying to relate to other characters to draw inspiration from, I think we might have capped out the inspiration of learning training methods.

也许是因为角色不仅仅是一个跑者。

Maybe it is relating to a character because that character is not just a runner.

他们甚至可能有父母、家庭，还有自己的事业。

They they even probably have a parent, a family, a career.

小说里的这些设定，让我们更容易产生共鸣。

Whatever it is in that fiction, then we can relate to it.

这让我们意识到，自己不只是跑者，这才是真实的我们。

That just makes us more than a runner because that's who we are anyway.

我特别能理解这种通过故事去理解他人的能力，你可以自己挑出想吸收的部分，而不是被人硬塞一套‘成为顶尖选手’的教程。

I I I I really resonate with that ability to just relate to people through their story, and you pick the parts that you want rather than being told, oh, here's an instruction method to be the best.

既然如此，为什么不自己去摸索呢？

Why not just learn it yourself?

而且那些训练类的书，内容真的太丰富了。

Also, the thing is that those training books, they just have so much content.

问题是，这么多东西，你到底该怎么用？

And it's like, well, now how do you apply that?

说实话，你根本没必要把书里写的每一条都原封不动地照搬。

And the truth is, you know, you don't really have to apply absolutely everything exactly as it's written in the textbook.

其实关键在于，你可以更灵活地去运用这些方法。

You know, it's it's all about like you can apply it more subtly.

就像艾伦的蛋白质摄入量那样，有点类似。

So, I guess a bit like like Alan's protein intake.

他总是把补充蛋白质和自己日常的某个习惯搭配在一起。

You know, he was he was He pairs it with something that he does on a regular basis.

所以他提高了蛋白质摄入量，这对他的整体健康和跑步恢复都有好处。

And so he's increasing his protein intake, which is both good for his overall health and also his running recovery.

而且我觉得我们现在这个时代挺幸运的，因为越来越多上了年纪的人依然能保持高强度训练。

And we're also in this era, I think, of just, we're kind of lucky because there are more people that are older that are still able to train at a high level.

我就想到足球运动员汤姆·布雷迪，当然还有艾伦。

But I'm just thinking of the football player, Tom Brady, but well, obviously Alan.

我的意思是，你发现越来越多知名的运动员，年纪不小了却还是顶尖水平。

But, but I mean, you know, just just kind of the well known athletes, like you see more and more of them that are still among the best.

C罗都41岁了。

Cristiano Ronaldo's 41.

梅西我觉得是39岁。

Leo Messi is 39, I think.

他们俩现在都在参加世界杯。

They're both playing the World Cup presently.

谢亚恩，你是不是忘了德约科维奇？

Shayan, am miss Djokovic.

她又回到温布尔登了。

She's back in Wimbledon.

德约科维奇还在打温布尔登。

Djokovic's still playing in Wimbledon.

你本来想说的是埃利奥特·基普乔盖吧。

You were gonna say Elliot Kipchoge.

对吧，伊丽莎白？

Right, Elizabeth?

是的。

Yeah.

埃利奥特·基普乔盖。

Elliot Kipchoge.

是的。

Yeah.

因为他整整十年都处于统治地位。

Because he he was, like, dominant for ten years.

我的意思是，他直到快38岁还在赢马拉松比赛。

I mean, he was winning marathons until he was maybe 38.

现在嘛，好吧。

And now I mean, okay.

我觉得他最近两场都没赢。

He didn't win the last two, I think.

但说实话，能拿到第五名已经很了不起了。

But I mean I don't know being fifth is nothing to sneeze at.

天啊，他现在跑的成绩还是2小时06分呢。

Well god he's only running two zero six now.

对啊，你说得对，我觉得我们现在处于一个新时代，因为更懂怎么保持健康，所以能长久地做自己喜欢的事。

Yeah exactly you know, so I don't know it's it's just I think we're in an era that because we know more about staying healthy, that, you know, we're able to do the things we like for longer.

我们把极限推得更远了。

We've pushed the envelope further.

我觉得科学的作用现在更被大家认识了。

I think science is more well known.

我觉得现在的人更愿意去冒险了。

I think people are ready to take more risks.

他们身边围绕的都是更注重健康的人。

They're surrounding themselves with more people who are healthy.

你知道，以前打冰球的，中场休息时抽烟喝酒是常事，那就是当时的风气。

You know, the common joke in hockey is in the eighties, they'd be sitting in between periods and smoking and drinking because that's what they did.

那会儿跟现在不一样。

And they you know, that that was a different time.

我觉得现在人人都特别关注那些细枝末节。

I think now everyone's really paying attention to the small details.

而且，莉兹，你只需要

And, yeah, Liz, you just need

把重点讲清楚。

to put point.

就像跑步的人也是一样。

Like, runners do the did the same.

八十年代的时候，他们跑完赛道，接着就点根烟，这事儿挺普遍的。

Like, in the eighties, like, he you know, they'd run their track race and then and then smoke a cigarette after, you know, and and that was it was a thing.

真的吗？

Really?

我之前都不知道。

I didn't know that.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我听过一些这样的故事。

I heard stories.

我不确定在长跑项目里是不是也这么常见，毕竟长跑得靠肺活量。

I don't know if it was so common in longer distances because you kind of need your lungs in longer distances.

但在短跑项目上，比如田径赛道上，我

But let's say on the track I

肺部可是至关重要的，就这么简单。

kind of need your lungs, full stop.

没错，确实如此。

Mean, you do.

对。

Yeah.

但你二十岁的时候，根本不会想这些。

But when you're 20, you don't think about that.

莉兹说得有道理，肺部确实关键。

Liz is onto something here, lungs.

肺部。

Lungs.

是的。

Yeah.

非常重要。

Very important.

我觉得关键在于弄清楚你跑步到底是为了什么，说白了，你真正想要的是什么？

I think the trick is try to understand what you're trying to do with your running in terms of, you know, what what am I about?

你现在处于什么状态？

Where am I at?

接下来那个现实可行的目标又是什么？

And what would my ambition be that's next step realistic?

想清楚这些之后，就去看看离这个目标最近的下一步该怎么做，然后一步步把它搭起来。

And then once you have that, look around for what your next step forward towards it is, and then just try and build a wall.

搭一个

Build a

墙。

wall.

明白了。

Okay.

所以我想问你，你一直都知道蛋白质很重要。

So my question for you is, you always knew protein was important.

你听说过的那个转折点是什么？

What was the turning point you've heard?

对你来说，是什么让你意识到的？

What was it for you that

我才知道蛋白质很重要，也更了解了它为什么重要。

I learned that protein was important and I learned more about why it's important.

如果你饮食正常，年纪也一般，那大概根本不需要特别补充。

I learned that if you're in a normal diet situation and you're a normal person of a normal age, you're probably okay.

如果你只是普通饮食，还买蛋白粉，那纯粹是浪费钱。

And you know, you're just wasting money if you're getting protein supplements.

但如果你是跑步者，需要恢复，尤其是年长的耐力型跑者，运动后肌肉微损伤，你就更需要补充蛋白质。

But if you're a runner that needs to recover and you're an endurance runner and you're also an old endurance runner, one you're going to need more protein for your muscle reconstitution after this micro breakdowns of exercise.

第二点，我是通过看书才明白的。

Two, got and I learned this by reading books.

而且，年纪大了，身体吸收蛋白质的能力也会下降。

And two, if you're an older person, you're not going to absorb your protein as well.

所以你可能需要多摄入一点。

So you probably need to take a bit more.

于是我想到，我这种情况其实双重不利，还是应该考虑补充一下。

So I thought, oh, I have a double I have a kind of double jeopardy there in terms of my situation, so I should try to supplement.

如果真要补充，那我得先看看饮食，这顿饭里蛋白质在哪？

If I'm trying to supplement, well, I need to look at my diet first of all and go, where's the protein in this meal?

这也就是我调整饮食的方式——比如这顿饭，

And that's kind of my dietary adjust adjustment, which is here's a meal.

里面蛋白质在哪？

Where's the protein in it?

喏，那一大块鸡肉就是。

Well, there's a big piece of chicken there.

明白了。

Okay.

继续往下看。

Keep moving.

你得问问自己，然后考虑要不要补充一些营养。

You know, so you need to ask yourself that and then you need to maybe supplement.

明白了。

Okay.

我该怎么把补充剂自然地融入日常生活，而不是让它变成额外的决策负担？

How can I build that supplement into my lifestyle so that it's not something that I've added to my decision matrix, but actually just part of my lifestyle?

这些方法和意识，其实都是从我们读过的书里学来的。

So now all of those things, all of that awareness and the way to do it, learned from the books that we've read.

这正好就是一个例子。

That's an example right there.

这可以是我下一步要做的。

That could be my next step.

那就把它融入进去吧。

Let's build it in.

我们已经多次拿这个当过好例子了。

And we've used it as a sort of good example on many occasions now.

但一旦你做到了，就得想想，好吧。

But once you get that once you get that in, you've then got to go, well, okay.

我已经把这件事变成日常生活中固定的一部分了。

I seem to have that routinely as part of my daily lifestyle.

看来这方面我已经没问题了。

Maybe I've got that covered.

好的。

Okay.

那接下来该做什么？

What's my next thing?

下一步该做什么，才能让我跑得更久、不受伤，如果目标是提升表现的话？

What's what's the next thing that's going to enable me to run for longer and, not get injured and maybe perform if you're looking to perform?

于是你四处看看，可能就想，嗯，我试试在某次跑步中加几组冲刺。

So then you look around and you maybe you go, you know, I'm gonna try to, I don't know, add some strides to one of my runs.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我不太喜欢练速度训练。

Speedwork is not something I like doing.

总觉得，唉，不想去跑道上跑来跑去的。

It's kind of, oh, I don't wanna go and run around the track.

我也是。

Same.

我也是。

Same.

我真希望每天都能轻松地跑跑步就好。

I would love to just go for a bunch of easy runs all the time.

关键是，你还是需要一些速度训练，这对你实现目标会有帮助，如果你有目标的话。

The thing is you need some speed is probably going to help you a bit towards your goal if you have a goal.

所以你可以在轻松跑结束后加四组冲刺。

So you drop four strides in at the end of your easy run.

量不多，可能也看不出太大效果，但至少是个正确的方向。

It's not a lot and it's probably not going to do much, but it's a step in the right direction now.

你可以把这慢慢融入到日常训练中。

And you can build it into your training lifestyle.

现在你又往前迈了一步，接下来就是不断把习惯叠加起来。

And now you're taking another step forward and you just, all you do then is you're just habit stacking.

就是一层层地积累好习惯。

You're just stacking good habits.

有时候，让这种习惯叠加更容易实现的，就是听听其他运动员是怎么做的。

And sometimes this habit stacking, like what helps it along is just hearing how other athletes do it.

对。

Yeah.

所以

So

那我们接下来可以聊聊耐力运动员的实际补给问题了，刚才的例子里其实就包含了一些小故事。

these, so I guess we can move on to practical fueling for endurance athletes, because this was an example where, you know, there, there are, there are some like little stories in there.

里面还包含了食谱和其他内容。

Recipes and and things included.

这确实有帮助。

And it helps.

你知道，看到别人是怎么做的，你就明白该怎么应用到自己身上了，比如哦，原来如此。

You know, it just it helps figure out how to apply it to yourself because you just see like, like, oh, well, oh, okay.

他们把某个习惯和另一个习惯结合起来，就这样融入了日常生活。

They, they, they put this habit, they stacked it with this other habit, and that's how they got it into their, their day.

就像我，有了现成的训练计划，就不用每天纠结该不该跑、跑多少了。

It's like, it's a bit like like for me, having a pre established training plan just removes the mental load of figuring out every day, oh, okay.

要不要跑步呢？

Well, do I run or do I not run?

到底跑多远？

And then how much do I run?

今天该不该安排间歇训练？

Am I due for intervals?

我的长跑应该跑多长时间？

How long should my long run be?

我不用再操心这些事了，因为我已经有了直到马拉松的训练计划，正努力照着做。

I don't have to think about any of these things because I've I have a training plan up until the marathon and I'm trying to follow it.

当然，如果受伤了就得调整，但营养或者其他你想养成的生活习惯也是一样，都是这个道理。

I mean, unless I get injured and I need to adjust but it's kind of the same thing with these with any nutrition or any other kind of habit that you wanna incorporate into your life to make it better.

是的，写这本书的凯莉·范霍恩非常有权威。

Yeah, Kylee van Horn, who wrote the book is like super credible.

她几乎是明星运动员的专属营养师，专门服务知名耐力运动员。

She's like, dietitian to the stars almost in terms of dealing with, you know, well known endurance athletes.

她收集了各种耐力运动员的故事，这些例子都很有启发性。

And so she has stories of all sorts of endurance athletes, and examples that can be inspirational.

你看了之后就会想，哦，我的饮食在这些方面是不是也够好？

And you see that, you know, you have you have a thought that, oh, I wonder what well, if my diet's good for these in these aspects.

然后读完一些故事，你就会发现，原来每个人都在经历类似的事。

And then you read some stories, you realize that everybody's going through the same thing.

他们都在努力找到最佳的方式。

They're all trying to kind of work out how to optimize.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这个播客很好地揭示了这本书的厉害之处——它把那些关于营养的误解和让人害怕谈的话题都化解得特别自然，再加上你们提到的那些真实案例和实用建议，真的让人更容易上手。

I found the podcast shed a good light on how disarming the book how how good of a job the book did of of disarming the ideas and the the fallacies or just in general, all the the things that we are afraid of to talk about when it comes to nutrition and the the testimonies that you guys referred to as well as the the tips that just have it stacked as you're talking about made it a lot more easier to just start it.

它大大降低了开始的门槛。

It lowered the the the entry the entry barrier to starting it.

比如你提到的那个问题，关于‘做一次饭，吃两顿’，我记得很清楚。

Like, when you talked about, for example, there was I remember those question where you asked about cooking once and eating twice.

说实话，我们家一直就是这样做的。

That is something, you know, as transparent as I could be is what we do in our family all the time.

这其实是我在成长过程中就养成的习惯。

So and it's something that I was raised with.

我第二天带去学校的午餐，就是头天晚上吃剩下的。

And the lunch mine I the lunch I would take to school the next day was my last night's meal.

有时候，前天晚上的饭直接留到今天吃，味道也一点不差。

And sometimes two nights ago is meal, and it was just as good.

但有些人，不同文化背景的家庭，做法可能不一样。

But some some people, different cultures, their families have a different approach to it.

但如果从提升表现的角度来看，有人可能会说，鸡肉必须得是最新鲜的。

But if we're talking about specifically as a performance point of view, someone might say, well, you have to have the freshest of chickens.

水果蔬菜也得是最新鲜的才行。

You have to have the freshest of of of fruit or or or vegetables.

但这本书恰恰打破了这种执念，让事情变得简单多了，而不是把饮食当成一门要追求百分之一边际收益的科学。

But in this case, they just disarmed it and made it much more approachable rather than looking at this as a science that we're trying to find the 1% marginal gain from.

它让这一切变得更贴近日常生活。

It just made it more every day.

另外，我觉得有些人总想在还没迈出第一步的时候，就直接走第一百步。

Also, I think some people sometimes try to take the, let's say, the one hundredth step before they've taken the first step.

对。

Mhmm.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

所以你知道，他们总在担心自己长跑的里程和配速够不够，可实际上他们一整周的跑步量都微乎其微。

So, you know, they they wanna know, am I doing enough mileage in my long run at the right pace when in fact they've got no mileage to speak of in their week?

明白

Mhmm.

然后他们就在周六拼命补跑，想把前面的量凑回来。

And then they're doing a long run on Saturday and trying to make up.

他们其实是在试图回答一个根本不对的问题。

They're trying to take the, you know, they're trying to, answer the wrong question.

是的

Yeah.

对

Mhmm.

你还不如多安排几段短跑，慢慢积累里程

You're better off taking a bunch of little steps like a lot of smaller runs or know maybe

先把总里程提上去，别一上来就纠结长跑该怎么跑

just raise your mileage before you have to worry about your long run and how it's constituted.

拿耐力运动的饮食来说，就从你最没做好的地方开始

Or in the context of nutrition for endurance like just start with whatever you're not doing.

通常来说，就是在长跑过程中补充碳水化合物

So usually it's taking carbs during your long run.

是啊，不吃早餐，还奇怪为什么早训这么吃力

Yeah, not having breakfast and wondering why your morning training runs are tough.

对

Yeah.

别总盯着训练里该吃什么

Then don't worry about what's in your training run.

是的。

Yeah.

别担心

Worry

你麦片碗里有什么。

about what's in your cereal bowl.

是的。

Yeah.

要担心的是你麦片碗里缺了什么。

Worry about what's not in your cereal bowl.

因为确实如此，

Because yeah, it's.

你一直跟丽兹说的一点是，跑步前得补充能量。

One of the things that you said all the way through Liz is you should fuel your runs.

你得吃东西，必须吃，得给跑步补充能量。

You have to eat, you have to eat and fuel your runs.

我觉得大家担心的其实是他们不该担心的饮食问题。

And I think people worry about what they're eating when they should be.

他们真正该担心的是有没有吃东西。

When they should worry about are they eating?

或者是不是在合适的时间吃东西。

Or are they eating at the right time?

因为这又回到了大众普遍接收到的那些信息，大家都想变得更健康。

Because I and that comes back to all the messaging from just the general population you know, everybody trying to be healthier.

所以我觉得，有时候如果你是一名耐力运动员，并且想要达成某个目标——当然，这不一定非要是跑完三小时的马拉松。

And so I think that sometimes like if you're, you know, if you are an endurance athlete and you're trying to reach some kind of goal and this doesn't mean that it has to be a three hour marathon.

可能是你第一次跑十公里之类的。

It could be whatever your first 10 ks.

但你让身体承受所有这些努力，让它去适应新的训练节奏，这些都需要能量补给。其实有一本书里提到过这一点，我记不清是哪一本了。

But like all this effort that you're asking of your body and all of the things that you want it to do to adapt to this new routine, I mean, requires fuel and actually, one of these books and I can't remember which one it was.

可能是这一本。

It might have been this one.

其实书里提到的，可能不是那本专门讲能量补充或营养的书。

In the book, actually, it might have been a different book that was not necessarily about just about fueling or just about nutrition.

但有一本书里摘录了一项研究，是关于人们学习新技能的。

But there was an excerpt in in one of the books that said there was a study that they did on people trying to learn a new skill.

这跟运动完全没关系。

So it had nothing to do with sports.

说白了，就是你正在学点新东西。

It just has like, I don't know.

比如你在学一门新语言，或者像我过去这一年，正在学编程。

You are trying to learn a new language or you're trying to learn like in my case over the last year, you're trying to learn how to code.

研究发现，那些摄入足够碳水化合物的人学得更快，毕竟大脑主要靠碳水供能。

And apparently, people who consumed enough carbohydrate because your brain runs on carbohydrate.

体内碳水充足的人，掌握新技能的速度明显更快。

Those that had enough circulating carbohydrates learned faster.

这就回到我们常说的，小学生饿着肚子上课，根本没法集中注意力，学东西也慢。

And so this goes back to you know we talk about like kids in grade school and how like when kids go to school hungry, they can't concentrate and they don't learn very well.

后来他们可能就干脆退学了，这就是为什么那些贫困地区的学校会提供早餐项目。

And you know, later they might end up dropping out and that's why they have these kids breakfast programs in schools that are in areas that are a little bit more impoverished.

但想想那些成年人，生活忙碌又压力大，如果大脑得不到足够的能量，就很难应对压力。

But like here are adults that are trying to lead busy stressful lives and if your brain isn't getting enough fuel like it doesn't deal with stress well.

所以你只会觉得更紧张。

So you're just gonna feel more stressed.

情绪也可能更容易波动。

You're gonna maybe feel more emotional.

而且，如果你正在学新东西，只会觉得更加不知所措。

And also, you know, if you're trying to learn something, you're gonna be more overwhelmed.

吸收新信息的速度也会变慢。

You're probably not gonna assimilate things as quickly.

这对我来说真是豁然开朗。

And that was such an eye opener for me.

我当时就想，对啊，确实如此。

I was like, oh, yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

所以，这对我生活的其他方面也适用。

So, it applies to the rest of my life too.

也就是说，这不只是为了给我自己补充能量，你知道的，我确实有跑步方面的远大目标，但既然我是跑者，我关心的也就是这个，对吧？

Like, so this is not just me trying to fuel my, you know, yeah, okay, I have these big goals in running, but like, if I do these things for my running because I'm a runner so that's what I care about, right?

但这些习惯很可能也对我的生活其他部分有帮助。

But they're probably also benefiting the rest of my life.

我记得大约十年前我重返校园的时候，得重新学数学之类的，那时我总是饿得不行。这说明，虽然我一整天都坐在教室里，却一直饿得慌，总得跑去Tim Hortons买个应急松饼，因为没带够零食，几乎一直在吃东西。

I remember when I was when I went back to school about a decade ago and you know had to relearn math and everything and I just remember always being hungry like and it just goes to show you I was sitting all day in a classroom but I was so hungry all the time and I was constantly like I had to go to the Tim Hortons to get an emergency muffin because I hadn't brought enough snacks and like I was constantly eating something.

说真的，我在想，那时候我饿着肚子，也许对跑步有好处，但对学习应该也有帮助。

And, and, and you know what, like, like, I wonder if, you know, if I was, if that was just, A, was probably good for my running at the time, but it was probably just good for my learning.

我不能说自己是学得最快的，毕竟得补很多课，但每次快到期末的时候，我总会突然有那么几个瞬间，心里一亮：哦，我懂了。

Like maybe, you know, I can't say that I was the quickest learner because I had some catching up to do, but you know, I almost always by the end of the semester had the enough moments that I was like, oh, I get this now.

过去一年我可没这种感觉，但我只是想从过去的经验里吸取点东西，提醒自己：既然以前能学会，现在也一样可以。

I can't say that the last year has felt that way, but you know, I'm just trying to gain, know, experience from the past and think that if in the past I could learn things, could still learn things.

所以，总之。

So anyway.

过去管用的方法，和现在可能管用的方法，毕竟我们和那时候已经不一样了。

What worked in the past versus what could work now, although we're different people from that time to now.

是啊，确实不一样了。

Yeah, are.

其中一个

One of the

凯莉·范霍恩的《耐力运动员的实际感受》这本书里，其实还包含了饮食计划和食谱。

things about Practical Feel of Endurance Athletes by Kylee van Horn is that, there's actually menus and, recipes in there as well.

所以你可以直接说，好吧。

So you can actually go, okay.

我听了一大堆关于蛋白质、碳水化合物的理论，嗯，都懂。

I hear all this blah blah blah about proteins and carbohydrates and Mhmm.

那我到底该怎么做？

So what do I do?

是的

Yeah.

但我到底该吃些什么呢？

But what do I eat?

来，这是顿饭。

Well, here's a meal.

哦，这看着真不错。

Oh, that looks tasty.

这是另一顿饭。

So here's another meal.

哦，这个看起来挺好。

Oh, that looks nice.

而且你可以多做一点，留着明天当午餐。

Oh, and you can make it, you make enough for two and have it for lunch tomorrow.

别担心这个。

Don't worry about that.

干得不错。

That's good work.

说实话，我一次要做的是十个人的量，不是两个人。

Okay, let's just be real here, two, no, I make No, for 10 no, 10 people.

既然我要在厨房忙上半天，那肯定得值回票价。

Like if I'm gonna be in the kitchen for half a day cooking, it's gonna be worth it.

做完还能剩不少，够三四个人吃，完全没问题。

And there's gonna be leftovers for like for like four three, Absolutely.

肯定会剩太多。

Gonna make too many leftovers.

你得吃双份才行。

You're gonna eat double portions.

不会，我会冻起来。

No, because I freeze them.

这样一来，有些日子我就不用操心午饭了，直接从冰箱里拿一份就行。

Then, and then there, yeah, there are days that I don't have to think about making a lunch because because I'll just take one out of the freezer.

这就像我自己的冷冻食品版。

It's like my version of frozen food.

你该开个新播客了。

You need to start a new podcast.

是吗？

I do?

对。

Yeah.

就叫‘和莉兹一起打理家务’这样的节目。

Sort of house house running or house planning with Liz.

对。

Yeah.

和莉兹一起规划家庭事务。

Household planning with Liz.

是给跑者准备的，还是给所有人？

For runners or for everyone?

这是训练计划。

Here's the training program.

这是放在冰箱上的饮食计划。

Here are the meal plan on your fridge.

这是

Here's the

你真的得腾出很多冰箱空间，因为

You definitely you need to have so you need to have a lot of fridge real estate because

我们得买新冰箱来实现这个计划。

We're unboxing new fridges to make this happen.

我能想象出这个画面。

I can see the vision.

明白了。

Uh-huh.

我们得在车库里再放两个冷冻柜。

We need two extra freezers in the garage.

我觉得我该找个冰箱品牌赞助我，我就想要那种带饮水功能的冰箱。

I I think I think I should be sponsored by a fridge company, but I want one of those fridges like with the water dispenser.

我觉得我生活中缺的就是这个。

I think that's missing in my life.

要是有饮水功能，我就不用老是往碧然德滤水壶里灌水了。

You know, if I had that water dispenser, I wouldn't have to be filling up the Brita all the time.

那是因为你注意到我们家有这种冰箱了。

That's because you spotted the one in our house.

我知道。

I know,

我超爱这个，太棒了。

I love it, it's the best.

每次去艾伦家，我都跟他说：艾伦，艾伦，我能去你厨房灌点水吗？

Every time I go to Alan's place, I'm like Alan, Alan, can I go in your kitchen and fill up my water bottle?

当然可以。

Yes.

水一直都是冰的。

The water is always cold.

可能经过过滤了，喝起来一点氯味都没有。

It's probably filtered or something because it doesn't taste like chlorine.

是吧，艾伦？

Right, Alan?

里面肯定装了滤芯。

There's gotta be a filter in there.

对。

Yeah.

我不确定你们最近有没有换过滤芯。

I don't know if you've changed it recently,

但滤芯已经拆掉了，因为我们不想麻烦换滤芯。

but filter it's in out because we wanted to avoid having to change the filter.

不过这水真好喝，而且永远都是冰的。

Anyway, the water is amazing and it's always cold.

而我呢，总在琢磨怎么多冻点冰块。

Whereas me, I'm always trying to, I'm always trying to figure out how to make more ice cubes.

我总觉得一直在找办法解决这个问题。

I feel like I'm in constant quest for some

你和莉兹一起打理房子的时候，能顺便弄点冰块吗？

kind of ice Can you for house house caring caring for your house with Liz.

和莉兹。

With Liz.

新播客很快就会上线。

The new podcast will be coming out soon.

在这之前，咱们继续聊读书的事吧。

In the meantime, let's move on with running books.

咱们继续吧。

Let's move on.

好的。

Yes.

《掌控世界》作者罗宾·戈德弗雷。

Running the world by Robyn Godfrey.

罗宾的故事，说起来有点出人意料，她竟然去追求世界冠军，还拿到了世界冠军奖牌。

Robyn's story was about, I guess an unlikely story to begin with of kind of pursuing world majors and getting her world world majors medal.

罗宾本人其实是个专业的演讲者，或者说是讲故事的人，

Just Robyn herself is like a professional speaker or like a storyteller or

是的。

Yeah.

也像是个励志讲师之类的，因为她说话特别有感染力。

Or a motivational speaker or something, because she was wonderful to talk to.

确实如此。

She was.

她在书里讲这些故事的方式特别棒。

The way she tells her stories in the book is great.

让我印象最深的是，她跑步的时候，丈夫得了四期癌症，于是她开始想：你一边跑，一边想着丈夫正在和死神搏斗，这样真的合适吗？

The thing that struck me about this book was her husband had stage four cancer while she was running and then it became like, should you feel guilty because you're going out running when your husband has cancer and is fighting for his life?

还是说，跑步其实给了你力量和动力，去面对生活中那些艰难的挑战？

Or is running giving you the strength and the the motivation to deal with the harrowing difficulties that you've got in your life?

对。

Yeah.

所以，你去跑步，是变坏了，还是变好了？关键在于，你是不是在用跑步来为自己积蓄力量，好应对生活的其他困难？

So are are you a bad person by going running, or are you a wonderful person by going running in terms of, you know, choosing to do something to get the strength to deal with the rest of your life?

我和罗宾聊过这个话题，挺有意思的。

And that was a sort of an interesting discussion with with Robyn.

我觉得后者才是对的。

I think the latter is true.

与其被艰难的生活压垮，

You know, instead of being crushed by by a difficult life situation.

对。

Yeah.

不如主动找到办法，让自己更有能力去应对。

You know, you can empower yourself with the means to cope.

但我认为，感到内疚也没关系，因为这说明你真的在乎。

But I think it's also true that like, it's okay to feel guilty because I think, you know, it just means that you know you care.

你只是想找到更多方式去陪伴那个人，而内疚是因为你觉得自己的付出还不够。

You're just trying to find ways to be there for that person more and you feel guilty because you feel like you want to do more than whatever you're doing.

没错，你确实该有点内疚，但即便如此，还是该去跑个步。

Yeah but you should feel guilty but then go get out for a run anyway.

对，没错。

Oh yeah, yeah.

我不是说别去跑步，别因为内疚才去，但我觉得在这种情况下感到内疚很正常，我自己有时候也会因为总在跑步而觉得愧疚。

No, I don't say like, don't go for a run because of the guilt, but I think it's normal to feel guilty in that situation, I I mean, I think I'd feel, I mean, I feel guilty sometimes for running all the time.

尤其是现在这样。

It's like, you know, especially now.

安德烈刚退休。

So Andre just retired.

对没听过的人说一下，安德烈是我丈夫。

For the listeners that don't know, Andre is my husband.

给安德烈打个招呼。

Shout out, Andre.

我们爱你，兄弟。

We love you, buddy.

而且呢，我现在正打算换一个新职业。

And and so and the thing is, like, so I'm trying to I'm trying to start a a different career.

所以我现在在努力找工作，也在学一些新技能，想让自己能进入一个真正想去的领域。

And so for me, I'm, like, I'm, like, trying to get a job, and I'm I'm trying to learn things to give me skills to maybe get into an environment that I wanna be in.

这些事都需要时间，但我并没有放弃我的跑步目标。

And all these things take time and and I I haven't given up on my running goals.

有时候我觉得自己就像在屋里匆匆来去。

And so and sometimes I feel like I just I just I just kind of like zip in and out of the house.

下班回家，刚说声‘嗨’，就得马上出门跑两个小时。

Like I come back from work, it's like, hi, then, and then I'm like, I gotta go run for like two hours.

我有点内疚，因为过去几年我一直以为，我现在的这份工作会一直做下去，直到我自己决定离开。

And like, I feel kind of guilty because I don't know, like over the last few years, I always thought that the job that I would have, like would be there until I decide to leave, you know?

裁员发生的时候，其实来得有点早，要是晚一年，我可能就干脆陪安德烈待一年，做点别的事。

So the layoff happened when it happened, but it happened maybe a year too early because if you had if it had happened this year, then I would have probably just spent a year, I don't know, hanging out with Andre and doing stuff.

但它来得早了点，所以我报了个课，现在就是想尽量别让学习和工作之间隔太久。

But instead, it happened a little early, so the, you know, I took a course and now I'm like, I'm trying to, I don't want there to be too much of a gap between, you know, taking that and then working.

是的，没错。

And so, yeah.

不过说实话，我挺内疚的，因为整天就是进门说声嗨，转头又走了。

But yeah, I feel guilty because I'm kind of like, hi, bye.

但有时候，这种内疚感反而能推你一把，让你变得更好、表现得更好，关键是要用对方式，别让它变成羞愧。

But sometimes using that guilt helps you either become better or perform better, or if you channel in the right way, don't let it become shame.

我就是这么觉得的。

I find that.

罗宾在她的书里其实也提到过这一点，说得挺到位的。

And and and I think Robyn made a good point of it throughout her book.

我觉得她隐含的意思是，如果你能把内疚转化成动力，用对方式去想那些人，尊重他们——不管他们是还在身边，还是只留在记忆里。

I think it was implicitly just labeled where if you if you use the the the fuel that guilt gives you, if you think of people in the right way and and and honor them, whether they're here or just their memory.

是的。

It Mhmm.

不仅能推动你变得更好，还能让你在内心深处与他们保持联系。

Not only could push you to be better, but it keeps you in touch and in contact with them in your soul.

我觉得，罗宾，也向你们两位致敬，这期播客是我听过的最棒的之一。你们处理这种敏感话题的方式实在太好了，深深触动了我，做得特别出色。

And I thought, Robyn and shout out to the both of you, that that was one of my favorite podcasts ever listening to you guys because you there was just such a good job done about approaching a sensitive topic like this, and it just touched it touched me personally, and it was just really, really well done.

最后，这期播客属于那种，当你准备好了，就会想再听一遍的类型——因为总能发现一些新的启发，听着也特别暖心。

And, you know, lastly, it was just one of those podcasts where it when you're ready for it, you wanna go back and listen to it because there might be an extra nugget or two you wanna learn from, and and you just wanna it was just good comfort listen.

我们过几期要聊的那本书里，也有类似的地方。

There is there are similar aspects in a book that we're gonna talk about in a couple of books time.

对。

Yeah.

经历了这么多，依然在继续前行。

Still running after all these tears.

就是这一期。

That one

也是。

too.

我想我们还是留到聊到那个清单时再说吧。

I guess we'll reserve that till we get to the list.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这还跟积极的环境有关。

I think also it's about the bright environment.

我觉得你的伴侣也是这个环境的一部分，对吧？

And I think your partner is part of that environment, right?

我觉得罗宾和之后我们要聊的丽莎·杰克逊，她们的伴侣都特别支持，鼓励她们去实现自己的目标。

And I think that both Robyn and later, we're gonna talk about Lisa jackson, but their partners, were, you know, they were very much on board and encouraged them in the things that they wanted to accomplish.

所以，这也值得说一说，因为尽管我们总想把自己的成就归功于自己，但其实从来都不是一个人的功劳——对方并没有替你完成什么，而是没有给你添堵，没有让你内疚。

So, you know, there's something to be said for that as well, because like, as much as we want to think that our accomplishments are our own, they're never just ours, know, they're also, it's not that the other person did it for you because they can't, but by not, you know, guilt tripping.

为你创造一个支持的环境。

Provide the environment for you.

是的，而且这种持续的支持特别重要，毕竟当你做一件从未做过的事时，总会觉得自己不够好，甚至感到脆弱，怀疑自己能不能成功，能不能成为那个想成为的人。而有一个伴侣始终在你身边，真的很难得。

Yeah, and just like the constant, because obviously when you're trying to do something you've never done, you always have feelings of inadequacy and maybe just feeling vulnerable and wondering if like you're ever gonna do it, make it, you know, be that person and to have a partner that's, you know, that's always there.

有时候这种支持也挺烦人的，老是说：‘当然你能行啊’，你知道吧？

Sometimes it's a little annoying, it's like, because they're always there like, yeah, well of course you can do it, you know?

你就会想：‘什么叫当然？’

And you're like, what do mean of course?

其实并不是说这事天经地义，但他们真正想表达的是，他们相信你。

Like there's no, it's not a given, it's not like, but what they mean is they mean that they believe in you.

我觉得这两位作者都有这样的伴侣，有这样的家庭环境。

And I think both of these authors had those kinds of partners, that kind of family environment.

说得真好。

Well said.

确实说得非常好。

Very well said.

那我们接下来聊埃琳·泰勒的《移动、休息、恢复》怎么样？

So should we move on to Move Rest Recover by Erin Taylor?

我先说一句，艾琳在对话中简直太平静了。

Just gonna start by saying Erin was just so zen on the conversation.

她就是那种，

Like she just,

你

you

想象一下，一个写了一整本书谈休息与恢复的人，她的声音该是什么样。

know, if you picture the sound of the voice of somebody that that wrote a whole book about resting and recovery.

她就是这样，

This is

光是听她说话，你就觉得放松了。

You feel rested just listening to

没错。

that.

对。

Yeah.

我记得当时听这个播客的时候，忍不住打开谷歌搜了她长什么样，因为真的太让人想看了。

I remember actually listening to this podcast while listening to it opening Google just to Google what she looked like because Mhmm.

我心里一直有个画面，觉得她一定特别平静安详，所以特别想看看，她说话时的样子是不是真和她散发出的那种气质一模一样。

There was just this I this image I had of how zen she was, and I and I just had to figure out, like, how does how do how would she look like speaking like this and match exactly like how her spirit came off of.

对。

Yeah.

这挺有意思的，因为我们平时聊的都是跑步、跑步训练、跑者经验这些事。

It's quite cool because we're doing running and books about running and training for running and things about runners and experience of runners.

但这次完全反过来了。

But in fact, this is the exact reverse.

这根本就是一本关于‘不跑步’的书。

It's, you know, the complete book of not running.

讲的全是跑步之间的那些事——你跑完之后、下一次跑步之前，所有那些休息、恢复的时刻。而过去五年左右，这些反而变得越来越重要。

It's all the things in between your runs till you get to your next run, which in fact, you know, what we're seeing over the last, I don't know, five years maybe is it's becoming increasingly increasingly important.

你怎么才能好好恢复，为下一次跑步做好准备？

How do you promote and actively replenish yourself to get ready for the next run?

我是说，我们之前做的那本《人人都能跑好马拉松》让我特别有感触。

I mean, that's what struck me about the last training book that we did, the marathon excellence for everyone.

约翰·戴维斯讲训练的时候提到，别太拼命，也别太早冲，因为你三天后还有一次特别硬的训练等着你。

When John Davis was talking about the training, he was talking about, okay, don't do this too hard and don't do it too soon because you've gotta get, you know, in three days time, you've got another really tough run coming up.

重点不光是给你安排训练，更在于安排一些轻松跑、恢复日或者干脆休息，让你过几天又能更狠地练，整个思路都聚焦在硬训练之间的缓冲期。

And it's all about, yes, giving you some training, but also giving you some notch training or easy training or rest so that you could train harder again in a few days and very focused on the bits in between the hard training.

这些建议就像莉兹和我之前说的，经常听到，老生常谈，你知道它对，但就是总在脑后飘着。

That's one of those pieces of advice where as Liz and I were mentioning, you hear this often, it comes back often, you know it's true, but it's just in the back of your mind.

但当你真正需要这些建议的时候——比如刚听完这期播客，刚跑完一场狠的，或者正盘算着下一次训练——这时候听进去，才真能用上。

But when you're ready for that kind of advice, maybe because you you're listening to this podcast right after a hard session or you're thinking about a session to come and you're not ready for it, it's one of pieces of advice that you could you use when you're ready to it because you need it.

哪怕你已经听过第N遍，但这一遍才是有效的，因为你刚好准备好了。

And even if you hear it for the nth time, well, that nth time was a productive one because you were ready for it.

用‘提醒’这个词，实在太轻了。

So it's it's just a good reminders is too small of a word.

恰到好处的提醒特别有力量，尤其是当你听到别人说出那些你以前听过但没放在心上的话。

A well timed reminder is very impactful when it comes to listening to other people voice the same things you might've heard in passing over time.

作为一个刚退休的人，我意识到的一件事就是大家的生活都太忙了。

As somebody who's retired recently, of the things that I became aware of is how busy all our lives are.

你知道，你其实并没有真正去做休息和恢复。

You know, you don't, you don't actually, you don't actually do rest and recovery.

你跑完步，接着就去忙其他跟跑步无关的事，比如当老师、做全栈开发、做制药高管，或者送孩子上学、计划假期等等。

You do running, then you do the other things that you don't, that are not running, like being a teacher or being a stack developer or being a pharmaceutical executive or taking your kids to school or planning a vacation or

还要为一周的饭菜做准备。

Cooking meals for the week.

对，比如为一周准备饭菜之类的。

Yes, cooking meals for the week, whatever.

开车送父母去就诊，这也是我的日常。

Driving parents to appointments, which is my And

因为你是那种喜欢规划的人，你一直在琢磨怎么把时间利用得更充分、怎么提高效率、怎么做好计划和安排。

because you're you're learning type, you're constantly working on how to squeeze more in, how to be more efficient, how to plan, how to schedule properly, how to

其实更多是要学会舍弃那些可能并不让你感到快乐的事情。

it's more about pruning out the things that maybe like don't bring you joy.

也许你有时候需要做的，就是因为你明白

Like maybe what you need to do at some point is because you know

这个词真贴切。

What a word.

修剪掉。

Pruning out.

哇。

Wow.

是的，我也说不准。

Yeah, I don't know.

我就打算保留这个。

It's like I'm keeping that.

我本来在想修剪植物的事，然后呢，就这么自然而然地想到了。

Was thinking of pruning plants and then, yeah, it just, I don't know.

感觉特别合适。

It just seemed to fit.

不好意思打断一下。

Sorry to interrupt.

我觉得有时候你确实得回头看看自己都在忙些什么，弄清楚哪些是真正让你开心的，哪些只是因为你觉得非做不可。

Yeah, I think that sometimes you also have to revisit all the things that you're doing and figure out which one of them are the ones that you actually enjoy and what do you do because you feel like you have to.

但这并不意味着永远别做那些让你有压力的事，因为生活中总有些事，你可能不太想做，但还是得做。

And it doesn't mean never do the things that you feel pressured to do because sometimes there's always gonna be things that you have to do that you maybe would rather not.

这本来就是生活的一部分。

It's just part of life.

我觉得你得在某种程度上接受这一点。

I think like you just have to accept it to a certain degree.

但有些事情，我们还是可以自己选择的。

But there there are things that we can choose.

你知道的。

You know.

说得真好。

Well said.