血、汗与尖刺 作者：莱尔·史密斯

我还没顾上看呢。

I haven't gotten to it yet.

哦，对了，Sharon，我真的不介意开一辆保时捷。

Oh, by by the way, Sharon, I haven't I've really, really would wouldn't mind driving a Porsche.

所以我就想随口提一下。

So I thought I'd just drop that into the conversation.

我明白你的意思。

I got you.

我懂你。

I got you.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

那么

So

当他们有一辆1895年的保时捷时。

When they have an 1895 Porsche.

这就对了。

There you go.

我稍微转个话题，聊聊维拉诺瓦的田径故事，因为维拉诺瓦特别以一项成就闻名，那就是赢得接力赛。

I'm segueing segueing a little bit trying to the Villanova track story because Villanova are famous in particular for one achievement and that is winning pen relays.

我猜那是指成人精英级别的接力赛。

And I guess that's the of the pen relays at the adult elite level.

但实际上，接力赛在好几个级别都有，对吧？

But in fact, pen relays occur at several levels, don't they?

青少年级别。

Junior levels.

其实，这基本上是个大学级别的比赛。

I mean, it's truly it's it's mostly a college meet.

对。

Yeah.

所以呢，他们把接力赛的快组比赛称为‘美国锦标赛’。

So it's, and they call their their the fast heat, of of the relays are each called the championship of America.

知道吧？

Know?

因为他们的历史够久远。

Because they because they go back far enough.

你明白吗？

You know?

我想第一届宾夕法尼亚接力赛是在1895年。

They they 1895, I guess, is when the first pen relays was.

所以他们能扛起这面旗帜。

And so they get to they get to carry that banner.

而且他们还有职业比赛。

And but they have pro races.

每年四月的最后一个周末在费城举办，为期三天，还有职业赛事。

They have it's three days last weekend in April in Philadelphia every year, and they have pro races.

他们还有很多大学级别的比赛。

They have a lot of college races.

高中级别的比赛也特别多，而且还有全美高中锦标赛。

They have a ton of high school races, and they also have high school championships of America too.

所以那些快速组比赛，比如距离混合接力、4×800米、4×400米、4×100米、跨栏接力等等。

So the fast heats in the distance medley, the four by 800, the four by 400, the four by 100, the shuttle hurdles, all that stuff.

他们也有田赛项目的接力，所有这些项目的冠军组比赛，对高中生来说，就是全美冠军赛。

They have field event relays too, and the the championship, heats of all of those are the championship of America, for high schoolers.

多年来，他们还有，哦，他们甚至一直往下到少年组，比如按年龄分组比赛。

And for years, they've had, oh, and they they go right down to junior, like, age group races.

我记得他们还有大师组接力，其中我最喜欢的一个是费城媒体接力。

They I remember them having masters relays, and they had one of my favorites was the Philadelphia media relay.

哦。

Oh.

所以所有体育记者都出去跑了个接力赛，那场面真是笑死人了。

So they had all the sports writers went out and ran a male relay, and it was hysterical.

那真是太好玩了。

It was so much fun.

不过一般来说，要参加这些比赛，你基本上得达到全国级别的水平。

But generally, to get to these things, it's sort of a natural you gotta be at sort of national class.

这个比赛非常有声望。

It's extremely prestigious.

我的意思是，虽然它理论上是个邀请赛，但他们邀请的都是最快的队伍。

It's I mean, I guess it's technically an invitational, but it's like they invite all the fastest teams.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Mhmm.

你明白吧？

You know?

所以我们当时就有机会。

And so we we had a chance.

我高中时有好几次机会在那里比赛，而且有几次我们表现得非常好。

My high school had a chance to run there numerous times, and we did we did very well a handful of times.

你跑的是距离混合接力中的一棒。

And you run you run-in one of the legs of the distance the distance medley relay.

距离混合接力，当时我

The distance medley relay when I

是高二。

was a sophomore.

听众朋友们，可以跟我们介绍一下什么是距离混合接力吗？

For listeners, you could just tell us what a distance medley relay is.

好的。

Yeah.

哦，当然可以。

Oh, sure.

好的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我们都知道4x400米和4x100米接力，因为奥运会上能看到，但距离混合接力，可能很多人不太清楚是什么。

We we know four by four and we know about four by one because we see those in the Olympics, but distance medley, maybe people don't know what one of those is.

是的。

Yeah.

距离混合接力啊。

The distance medley.

我都不记得自己是什么时候知道这个项目的了，但我第一次亲眼看到距离混合接力，是在我高中九年级的时候，我们去看了Penn Relays。

I forget when I learned what the distance medley was, but I remember seeing my first distance medley was I was a freshman ninth grader in high school, and we went to watch the pen relays.

我们当时在现场亲眼看到了距离混合接力比赛。

And we got to see the distance medley run live and in in person.

所以，你知道，游泳里也有混合接力。

So, you know, they have, like, they have medley relays in swimming.

这个项目的概念是，接力中的四名运动员每人跑不同的距离。

The I the idea is each each of the four athletes in the relay runs a different distance.

所以，还有短跑混合接力。

So, and they have a sprint medley as well.

距离混合接力是这样的：有400米选手、800米选手、1200米选手，最后一棒是1600米。

So the the distance medley is, there's a 400 meter runner, an 800 meter runner, a 1,200 meter runner, and the anchor leg is a 1,600 meters.

但有时候他们从800米开始。

But they start at least sometimes they start with the 800.

有时候从1200米开始。

Sometimes they start with the 1,200.

在宾夕法尼亚接力赛上，他们从1200米开始。

At Penn, they start with the 1,200.

所以第一棒跑三圈。

So your lead off man goes three laps.

第二棒跑一圈。

Your second man goes, one lap.

第三棒跑两圈，最后一棒是跑一英里的选手。

Your third man goes two laps, and your anchorman is the miler.

所以，幸运的是，我在我们队里。

And so we fortune I was on our team.

我的高中在1979年赢了，那是在我之前。

My high school won it in 1979, so before me.

然后我们又去了，我们是个小学校。

And then we went again, We're a tiny school.

对吧？

Right?

我们是个非常小的学校，在新泽西一个很小的小镇上。

We're a little tiny school and and a little tiny town in New Jersey.

然后，我的高中又回来了。

And, we came back my high school.

我先跳过83年，但1984年，我上高二，也就是高中十年级。

I'll skip over 83 for a moment, But 1984, I was a sophomore, a tenth grader in in high school.

我跑的是第一棒。

I ran the lead off leg.

我跑的是1200米那一棒，然后我们赢了。

I ran the 1,200 meter leg, and we won.

后来我高二的时候又跑了一次，不过那就是另一个故事了。

And then we came back again when I was, we ran it when I was a junior, but that's a whole another story.

然后高三，也就是十二年级的时候，我们又跑了一次，那年我是最后一棒，结果又赢了，那两年都赢了，2006年那次。

And then we we ran it again when I was a senior, twelfth grader in high school, and I I was the anchor leg that year, and we won that year as well in 10/00/2006, both both of those years.

我九年级，也就是高一那年，我们是去看比赛的。

And my ninth grade year, my freshman year, we went to watch.

那是我第一次接触Penn Relays，当时我们学校有一支队伍参赛。

That was my first experience with the pen relays, and we had a team that went.

他们冬天的时候在室内赛创下了全国纪录，所以来Penn Relays的时候算是热门队伍。

They were they were they had set the national record indoors in the wintertime, and so they were kind of a favorite coming into the pen relays.

他们跑了10分0.9秒，是高中历史上最接近打破10分钟大关的队伍，但最后和新泽西南部的Willingboro高中几乎同时冲线，只拿了第二。

And they ran, 10 flat point nine to be the closest team to ever breaking ten minutes in high school, but they finished second in a dead heat to Willingboro High School in South Jersey.

我们队的最后一棒跑了4分06秒，他们队的最后一棒跑了4分08秒。

And the anchor the anchorman my our anchorman ran four zero six, and their anchorman ran four zero eight.

直到今天，费城那边的人还在谈论那场比赛。

And they still talk about that race today down there in Philadelphia.

那场比赛真是精彩绝伦。

It's it's it was a hell of a race.

所以，总之，那里有各种各样的比赛，他们管它叫‘Penn’，因为是在宾夕法尼亚大学举办的，所以简称Penn。

So, you know, so anyway but there's but there's so many different races there, and if they call it the universe because it's at the University of Pennsylvania, hence Penn.

这就是宾夕法尼亚大学接力嘉年华，一年一度的接力盛会。

So it's the University of Pennsylvania Relay Carnival, annual Relay Carnival.

如果你有机会去，没去过的话，去了你就知道了。

And if you get a chance if you haven't been there, if you've been there, you'll know this.

如果你没去过，那感觉真的就像个嘉年华，因为比赛在富兰克林体育场举行，那个体育场能容纳——天哪，周六的Penn Relays至少能坐六万人。

If you haven't been there, it really feels like a carnival, you know, because the it's in Franklin Field, which is a stadium that holds, god, it must hold 60,000 or more, for for the Saturday at at the Penn Relays.

它能容纳四万多人，大多数田径运动员可没机会在这么多观众面前比赛。

It'll hold 40,000 plus, which most track runners don't get a chance to run-in front of.

而且

And

是的。

Yeah.

这规模都赶上钻石联赛了。

This is this is diamond league size.

确实很了不起。

It's extraordinary.

而且比赛持续三天，各种不同水平的高中预赛队伍都在互相较量。

And it's three days, and and so you have all kinds of different levels of high school heats competing against each other.

除了冠军赛之外，还有郊区高中组的比赛。

They have in addition to the championship heat, they have, like, you know, the suburban the suburban high schools division.

还有费城市区高中组的比赛，然后所有这些队伍里，一英里接力赛和四乘四百米接力赛最快的那些队，就能晋级周六的决赛。

They have the Philadelphia City high schools division, and, you know, and then the fastest of all those teams in the mile relay, the four by 400, qualify for the final on Saturday.

现场还有各种美食，能闻到炸面圈和热狗的味道，人们欢呼着、唱着歌。

And it's just and there's there's food, and there's there's a smell of funnel cake and hot dogs and people cheering and singing.

体育场外面，就是那座巨大的砖墙体育场。

And and outside the walls of the stadium is this big brick stadium.

体育场外面还有卖T恤的帐篷，各种东西应有尽有。

And outside the walls of the stadium, there there are tents selling T shirts and you name it.

而且人们唱歌、乐队演奏音乐，真的就像个节日一样。

And, you know, people singing and playing music in bands, and and it really is a festival.

这是一个非常独特的活动。

It's it's a totally unique, event.

如果美国每个田径比赛都能有这种氛围，那肯定场场爆满。

If every if every track meet in America had some aspect of this, they'd be they'd they'd they wouldn't have an empty seat.

真的太好玩了。

It's just so much fun.

对。

Yeah.

所以，你从那个10岁就跑掉的叛逆小孩，

And so you went from the scheduled kid who ran away at 10 years old Mhmm.

变成了走进有4万名专注的家长和参与者的赛场的人。

To entering the arena of 40,000 attentive parents and participants and

而且还是最后一棒。

As an anchor leg, no less.

最后一棒。

As an anchor leg.

对。

Yeah.

最后一棒。

As an anchor leg.

什么？

What?

是啊。

Yeah.

那是什么时候的事？

What was that?

大概两年后还是三年后？

Like, two years later or three years later?

好吧，我跟你说。

Well, I'll tell you what.

挺有意思的，我在书里也讲过这个故事。我上高二的时候，也就是十年级的时候。

It's funny, and I tell this story in the in the book there when I was when I was a sophomore, when I was tenth grade.

我进去了。

I go in.

那是我第一次参加这么大的比赛，他们用赛马的术语来安排。

This is my first time running a running a big meet like this, and they they put you in a little they they they use horse racing terminology.

他们把所有的队伍排好，因为每场比赛不只是一组选手。

So they they they line every all the teams up because every race has a it's not just a series of participants in that race.

每场比赛有四名选手。

It's four participants for each race.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你得四个人排成一排，然后他们把你分开，在合适的时间把每一棒派出去。

So you have to line up four together, and then they separate you and put each leg out at the right time.

这个组织安排真是相当了不起。

It's it's the organization is is rather extraordinary.

然后他们把你带到一个叫‘ paddock ’的地方，如果你了解赛马的话，就知道那是什么。

And so they put you in this place called the paddock, which if you know horse racing is a is a thing.

那是赛马前放马的地方，之后再把它们带到赛道上比赛。

That's where you put the horses before they you take them out to the the track to race.

对。

Mhmm.

其实是一样的道理。

And it's the same thing.

我站在那里，脱掉运动服，只穿着比赛装备。

And so I'm standing there, and we stripped down out of our sweats down to our racing gear.

我们穿上钉鞋。

We put our spikes on.

然后咔嗒咔嗒地走上赛道。

We click up onto the track.

你知道，我当时有点不敢抬头看，因为看台上人太多了，我从来没经历过那种场面。

And, you know, I I was sort of afraid to look up because there were so many people in the stands, and I'd never experienced anything like that.

我偷偷瞄了一眼，心里有点紧张。

And, I looked I took a peek, and I was a little nervous.

然后看台上有个家伙开始喊我的名字，我抬头一看，是个三百多斤的大块头，穿着亮红色T恤，戴着棒球帽。

And then some guy in the stands started shouting out my name, and I looked up, and it was this enormous three hundred plus pound guy in a bright red shirt and a baseball cap.

我心想，这人谁啊？

And I'm like, who is this guy?

他冲我喊了句什么，像是‘嘿，史密斯’。

And, he he cheered something to me like, hey, Smitty.

从来没人叫我史密斯。

And nobody called me Smitty.

我爷爷才叫史密斯。

My grandfather was Smitty.

你懂吧？

You know?

我就想，这人谁啊？

And I'm like, who is this guy?

不认识。

I don't know.

然后还没等我反应过来，我就站在起跑线上了，发令枪一响，比赛就开始了。

And then and then before I knew it, I was on the starting line, and they were firing the gun, and and the race was off.

所以这倒是个挺幸运的情况，让我没那么多紧张的想法。

So that was really sort of a a happy circumstance to avoid a lot of sort of nervous thinking.

对。

Mhmm.

但是，真正站到赛场上，在那么多人面前跑步的感觉，真的让人不知所措。

And but that experience of getting out there and running in front of all those people was was was overwhelming.

确实如此。

It really was.

太激动了。

It was exciting.

挺吓人的。

It was scary.

但话说回来，你知道，还是会想起教练叮嘱你的那几句话。

But, again, you know, you fall back on a few things that your coach tells you.

马克总爱说，你已经训练到位了。

Mark always used to say things like, you know, you you've done the work.

现在你有任务要完成，就这么简单。

Now you have a job to do, and that was it.

没什么长篇大论的动员，也没有那种中场休息时足球更衣室里喊口号的热血演讲。

And it wasn't not a lot of, you know, pep talk, not a lot of, you know, halftime football rah rah locker room speeches.

就是提醒你，你已经准备好了。

It's just look, just remind you that you're you're ready for this.

去拿下它吧。

Go go get it.

然后我们就做到了。

And so we did.

而且那件事，在很多方面都显得非常公事公办。

And and that was, it was very, very businesslike in a lot of ways.

那真的非常有帮助。

And that was really very helpful.

但确实如此。

But it was.

这让人非常不知所措。

It's very overwhelming.

而且我认识的那些跟我聊过这件事的人，都说了同样的话。

And I would, you know, the people I know who I've talked to about it all say the same thing.

我敢打赌，你随便问一个第一次在那种地方跑步的人，他们都会说同样的话。

And and I bet anybody you talk to who who said the first time they ran at a place like that would say the same thing.

他们就像，你的眼睛会发直，因为信息量实在太大了。

They're just like it's just, you know, your eyes go blank because it's just so so much.

你明白吗？

You know?

高中田径比赛可没那么多观众。

A high school a high school track meet doesn't get that many.

对。

No.

没那么多观众。

That many fans.

而且，传统上，如果你在宾夕法尼亚接力赛赢了，他们会给你一块手表。

And and, traditionally, the Penn real is give you a watch if you win.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这还有件好玩的事。

This is the other fun thing.

对。

Yeah.

他们赢了冠军后，不给奖牌。

They when you win a championship, you don't get a medal.

他们送的是手表。

They give watches.

然后我在找。

And, I'm looking.

我这里没有。

I don't have it here.

不然我就给你看了。

I would show you.

是汉密尔顿的。

It's a Hamilton.

他们多年来一直送汉密尔顿的手表。

They've they've given out Hamilton's for years.

我不太清楚。

I don't I don't know.

我觉得是美国制造的手表。

I think it's an American made watch.

但表盘上的数字不是1到12，而是拼出了‘宾夕法尼亚’这几个字。

But instead of the instead of the numbers around the dial one through 12, it spells out Pennsylvania.

好的。

Okay.

哦，

Oh,

哇。

wow.

表盘上写着‘继电器’，然后横跨整个表盘。

Says relays and then says relays across the across the face.

所以这是一款非常独特的金表，配的是金色表带。

And so it's a totally unique it's a gold watch with a gold band.

我自己换了一条皮表带，因为那样戴起来更舒服。

I put a leather band on mine because I wear it more that way.

不过，你知道，团队发这个表的时候，很多人都管它叫‘大轮子’。

But it's, you know, you they they give out the team gets it's a big a lot of people call it a wheel.

看起来有点像，他们假装那是个马车轮子。

It looks sort of like they pretend like it's a wagon wheel.

对。

Mhmm.

但它挺大的，大概有自行车轮子那么大，上面有个奖章，还刻着你赢的那场比赛的信息。

But it's a big about the size of a bicycle wheel with a with a medallion on it and a little engraved thing for the race that you won.

那就是你的冠军奖牌，要送回学校去的。

And that's your championship plaque that goes back to the school.

是的。

Yeah.

然后每个队员都会得到一块手表。

And then each member of the team gets a watch.

所以，确实是这样。

And, so it was yeah.

能最终站在顶峰，那真是一种独特的体验。

It's it's it's it's a unique experience to to end up on top there.

这确实是美国整个体育界传说的一部分。

It's truly part of the lore of of athletics as a whole in America.

尤其作为一个来自加拿大的局外人，我觉得，这不过是高中生们向往、努力追求并试图实现的目标。

And most especially as as a, you know, as an outsider from Canada, I think, well, it's just something high schoolers look on, look up to and try to reach and achieve.

但如果你从10岁、12岁，或者初中、高中、初中跑步时就开始想这件事，那这真是一个令人难以置信的梦想。

But if you're thinking about this from the age of 10 or if the age of 12 or middle school, high school, junior school running, this is it's an incredible thing to dream about doing.

我不知道一个14岁、16岁的孩子怎么能想象自己在6万人面前奔跑，在这个充满传说的体育场里。

And I don't know how a 14 year old, a 16 year old can imagine running in front of a crowd of 60,000 people in this stadium that has so much lore.

你知道，我们说的是海沃德体育场。

You know, we're we're talking Hayward Field.

我们说的是

We're talking

对。

Right.

你知道，我们说的是这些伟大的成就。

You know, we're talking these big accomplishments.

那怎么做到呢？

How does that?

我知道，韦特莫尔因素就是韦特莫尔因素。

I know I know the Wetmore factor is the Wetmore factor.

你明白吧？

You know?

他就像往常一样训练你，有时候还会来点出其不意的招数。

He prepared you the way he does, and there's no pics he does sometimes.

但一个人怎么在心理上为那种场面做准备呢？

But how does how does someone prepare you for that mentally?

他们是不是有什么额外的训练，还是说大家都一起面对，因为我们都是某个更宏大事业的一部分？

Is there an extra thing that they do, or it's just everyone's in it together because we're all big some part of something bigger?

成为更宏大事业的一部分，这确实很重要。

The being part of something bigger is a big part of it.

所以，在所有的训练日里，那些夏天的日子——夏天是中距离跑者最大的训练期，为越野赛季做准备，然后一直延续到田径赛季——这些经历支撑着你。

So in all the days of training, all those summer days, you know, and summer's the biggest training period for distance runners, leading into the cross country season, And that carries you through the track season.

那些故事，我们在路上跑着，互相聊天，说的都是——你知道的，就是一群高中生一起跑步。

All those stories, and we're out on the road, and we're talking to each other, and we're telling you know, you're it's a bunch of high school kids running together.

我们会聊女生，聊电影，还会聊昨晚看了什么比赛。

You'll talk about girls, and you'll talk about movies, and you'll talk about, you know, what game did you watch last night.

但你知道吗，那些日子里，马克经常跟我们一起跑，直到我们到了某个年纪。

But, you know, and in those days, Mark Mark ran with us a lot, until we were at a certain age.

你明白吧？

You know?

因为我还记得刚开始的时候，我那时候才十岁、十一岁，跟着这个教练训练，心里想，哇，这可是个大人物，就像拉什莫尔山那样的传奇人物。

He was because I I remember when I started, I've I've, as a kid, as a 10 or 11 year old kid, you're training with this coach, and you think, oh, that's this big, you know, you know, Mount Rushmore kind of a figure.

当我开始写这本书的时候，我才意识到，他训练我的时候其实才二十五六岁。

When I started writing the book, I I sort of realized that, yeah, he was only 25 or 26 when he started training me.

所以他自己也还算是个年轻人。

So he was still still kind of a very young guy himself.

所以他跟我们一起训练，我们大家都一起跑步。

So he was out training with us, and we all, you know, and we all ran together.

所以我们在长跑的时候，就会讲故事。

So while we were out on these long runs, you tell stories.

对吧？

Right?

他会讲各种故事，比如他高中时的同学，还有那些捣蛋鬼。

And he would tell all kinds of stories about, you know, the kids he went to high school with and the troublemakers.

他以前还说过自己十几岁时是个车迷。

And he was a he used to talk about being a gearhead as a as a teenager.

他喜欢快车，还有那些东西。

So he had he was into fast cars and all this other stuff.

不过很多故事都围绕我们认识的优秀跑者，这些年遇到的高手，还有看过的精彩表现。

But a lot of the stories revolved around the great runners we knew, you know, and the great runners we'd met over the years and the great performances we'd seen.

所以慢慢了解了这些事，也见到了其中一些人。

And so just sort of understanding all those things and meeting some of those people.

比如有一章讲一个叫克里斯·哈利南的人，他是当时伯纳德最厉害的跑者。

Like, there's a chapter about a guy named Chris Hallinan who who was the best Bernards runner ever in those days.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后我们就听这些故事，突然有一天，在某场比赛上，等等。

And and so we'd hear these stories, and then all of a sudden, one day at some meet, wait.

克里斯就在那儿。

There's Chris.

原来真有这么个人。

That's like a real guy.

不只是个故事。

It's not just a story.

然后你就

And so you

能见到他，跟他聊天，而且，你知道，你去比赛现场看这些人跑步，他们会给你看他们拿到的奖牌，或者那块表，或者别的什么。

get to meet him and talk to him and and and, you know, you go to a meet and watch some of these guys run, and they'll show you the medal they got or the or or the watch in that case or, you know, whatever.

你就会开始觉得自己属于这种精英圈子里了。

And it just feels you start to feel like you belong in this kinda rarified atmosphere.

所以随之而来的是一种自信，这不是凭空想象的。

And so there's a confidence that comes with that that's not, imaginary.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像你真的开始感受到那种感觉。

It's like you really start to feel it.

对吧？

You know?

所以当你……我敢打赌，我敢打赌，因为我在我儿子的学校看到了这一点。

And so when you're, and and I bet I I would bet because I see it in my son's school.

我儿子在科罗拉多州的奈瓦特高中上学，他们过去两年连续赢得了耐克越野全国赛。

My son goes to Naiwat High School out here in in Colorado, and they've they've won the Nash the Nike Cross Nationals the last two years.

在那之前，他们也有一些非常优秀的跑者。

They've had some really good, runners before then.

所以他们有传统。

So they have a tradition.

对吧？

Right?

他们在此基础上不断进步，有些孩子夏天回来跟更小的孩子交流。

And they build on that, and they some of those kids come back in the summer and talk to the the the younger kids.

所以如果你去聊，比如我随便说几个美国学校的名字，你可能知道也可能不知道，像新泽西的CBA，或者还有那个叫什么来着？

And so you have this so if you were to talk to, you know, I'll throw out some American school names that that may or may not register with you, like like CBA in New Jersey or, you know, there's there's, or there's what's the one?

有个学校，北加州的马斯特利尔兄弟就读的那所。

There's one where the the, the Mastolier brothers went in Northern California.

他们有着悠久的成功历史。

And, but they had this long history of of, success.

所以当你把自己做的事和别人的成就联系起来时，是的。

And so when you can tie what you're doing to something that somebody else did Yeah.

还有一个小角度挺有意思的，因为我们镇上有很多跑步的人。

And one other little sort of angle on this is funny because we had there were a lot of runners in my town.

就像我说的，小镇子。

Small, like I said, small town.

我们镇上跑步的人很多。

A lot of runners in my town.

镇上还举办过比赛。

We had races in town.

有公路赛。

We had road races.

有几年还办过竞争挺激烈的伯纳兹维尔半程马拉松。

We had a a a a pretty competitive, Bernardsville half marathon for for a few years.

但当我们高中二年级、十年级的时候赢得宾夕法尼亚接力赛，回来时，我们镇报纸的头条体育新闻却是杰米·布莱尔投出两安打。

But when we when we won the Penn relays, when I was a sophomore in high school, tenth grader, we came back and the lead sports story in my hometown newspaper was Jamie Blair pitching a two hitter.

好吧。

Okay.

对。

Yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

我们只排到第二。

We were the second story.

你

You

知道吗？

know?

我觉得可能是因为棒球那篇有配图，而田径那篇没有。

And I think it's I think it's probably because they had a picture for the baseball story, and they didn't have a picture for the track story.

但你知道，这多少有点让人不适应。

But it's, you know, it's like it's a little bit of a adjustment.

对。

Yeah.

确实。

Absolutely.

失误了。

Fumble.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

是耶稣会高中吗？

Was it the Jesuit high school?

我刚刚快速查了一下。

Had looked it up real quick.

耶稣会高中，对。

Jesuit high Yeah.

就是耶稣会那所。

Jesuit's the one.

不过，这又是另一回事了。

They are but, again, this is another thing too.

我们看到很多私立学校，很多天主教学校，比如新泽西的基督教兄弟学院，那是新泽西的重点学校。

We we see we have a lot of the private schools, a lot of the Catholic schools have you know, like, Christian Brothers Academy in New Jersey is is the big one in New Jersey.

我们有一次算过，那是个男校，大概有900名学生。

And we we figured it out one time just by it's all boys, and they have 900 kids, I think.

我们学校是男女同校，从七年级到十二年级有六百名学生。

And we had boys and girls, and we had 600 six six hundred from seventh through twelfth.

所以实际上我们连六百人都不到。

So we were even smaller than 600, really.

我们算了一下，我们每有一个首发球员，他们那边大概得有四个。对。

And we figured out for every one of our first guy, they should have, like, four Uh-huh.

只是从数据上看。

Just statistically.

当然，实际情况不会那么理想，但道理是这么个道理。

Of course, it doesn't work out that way, but that's That makes sense.

你明白吧？

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

所以很多历史悠久的学校，规模都特别大。

So a lot of these schools that have have really long histories are are have have really big schools.

你懂吗？

You know?

而且他们建立传统，靠的是有很多孩子可以挑选，等等这些因素，我并不是要否定他们，因为无论你来自哪里，赢得比赛都很难。

And they build that tradition on, you know, a lot of kids to choose from and all that stuff and and taking nothing away from them because it's really hard to win a race no matter where you come from.

你知道吗，我一直为自己来自一个小地方感到某种自豪。

You know, I always felt a certain amount of pride coming from a small place.

你明白吗？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

所以

So

给艾登点个赞。

Shout out to Aiden.

我知道你之前提到过他。

I know you mentioned him earlier.

希望他正在听。

Hope he's listening.

我希望

I hope

他不在

he's not

为他感到骄傲，是的。

proud of yes.

而且书里有一个关于他的动人故事，他正在经历人生的转折点，遇到不同的人，选择不同的路。

And and there's a poignant story in there in the book about him as well as he's living out his sliding doors moments with who he's meeting and who who he's

科罗拉多州有着非常深厚的跑步传统。

There's a massive amount of the massive amount of running legacy in Colorado.

确实如此。

Absolutely.

对。

Yeah.

就在博尔德附近。

Around Boulder.

没错。

Absolutely.

那地方很有名。

It's legendary.

他前几天来找我，因为他们正在跑一条路线。

He came up to me the other day because they were running a course.

这边有条路线叫传奇环线。

There's a course over here called the Legend Loop.

我也不知道为什么叫传奇环线。

And, I don't know why it's called the Legend Loop.

不知道传奇指的是谁，但那条路有个大坡，他们整个团队一起往上跑。

I don't know who the legend is, but they were it's a big hill, and they're running up the big hill, the the team together.

他回家后跟我说，嘿，爸。

And, he came home and he said, hey, dad.

我今天居然能和德鲁·亨特一起跑步了。

I got to run with I got to run with Drew Hunter today.

哇。

Wow.

你是怎么

How'd

和德鲁·亨特一起跑步的？

you get to run with Drew Hunter?

因为我跟德鲁有点交情，但不算太熟。

Because I I know Drew a little bit, but not a lot.

你懂吧？

You know?

而且据我所知，他之前没见过艾登，但他们都在跑那个山坡。

And and I've I as far as I know, he didn't he never met Aiden, but they're they're running up this hill.

然后亚瑟士的德鲁·亨特也在同一个山坡上训练。

And so Drew Hunter from Asics is training on the same hill.

而且，你知道，On团队也在同一个山坡上训练。

And, you know, the on team is training on the same hill.

纳古斯也在那里，你知道，绕着同一个跑道跑圈，他们也在同一个跑道上训练。

Nagoose is out there, you know, running laps on their same they train on the same track.

所以他们有机会接触到一些非常有趣且鼓舞人心的事情，对吧。

So they have they have an exposure to some really interesting and inspiring kind of Yeah.

人脉。

Connections.

你明白吗？

You know?

这挺有意思的。

It's it's fun.

我们跑步俱乐部内部经常开玩笑说，我们也在同一个赛道上跑过之类的。

We have we we joke between ourselves in a in a running club that, you know, we ran on the same course as, etcetera.

我们有些朋友，比如乔安妮和布莱恩，他们在2020年芝加哥马拉松破纪录那天跑了比赛。

We had friends who ran shout out Joanne and Brian who ran Chicago marathon on the day it was broken in 2020.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

我觉得是三次。

Three, I believe.

愿凯尔文·基普托姆安息。

Rest in peace, Calvin Keptom.

我们经常开玩笑说。

And we know we we joke.

你看，你跑在他后面。

You know, you you ran after him.

你得跑快点。

You gotta run fast.

你总会有种感觉，嘿。

You always feel like, hey.

你在同一条赛道上跑。

You're running on the same course.

他们跑的就是你跑的那些路线。

They're running the same things you're running.

但就你的经历来说，艾登，他跑的是同样的训练场地——不，不是训练内容，是场地本身。

But in your experience, you Aiden, he's running the same workouts well, not workouts.

就是他跑的那些训练场地。

The workout grounds that he's running.

是的。

It's Yeah.

感觉这真是一个难得一遇的时代。

It just seems like it's a rarefied era to be a part of.

你知道，你不会在冰球场里自己练自己的冰，或者棒球场上各练各的。

You you know, you don't go in a in a hockey arena and practice on your ice, and everyone practice on their own ice or baseball diamonds.

对。

You Right.

大家都在同一条路上跑。

Everyone's running the same roads.

大家都在跑同样的路线。

Everyone's running the same.

这真的很酷。

That's really cool.

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很棒，而且他们所有人。

It's really neat, and they're and all of them.

我是说，我们遇到的每个人，尤其是他遇到的每个人，都非常开放、友好，愿意回答问题或者随便聊聊什么的。

I mean, everybody we've met, everybody he's met, especially, has been nothing but open and friendly and, you know, willing to answer questions or just chitchat or whatever.

所以这非常有趣。

And it's so it's a lot of fun.

这让他们这些顶级运动员变得真实可感。

They it makes it brings that that elite level athlete into, like, like, a a reality.

你明白吗？

You know?

一种对比现实。

A contrast reality.

所以你会觉得，等等。

So you're so they're you're like, wait.

他们不只是出现在海报、杂志和播客里。

They're not just on posters and in magazines and on podcasts.

是的。

They're Yeah.

他们是真实的人，做着真实的事，你可以亲眼看到他们做这些事。

They're real people doing real things, and you can watch them do it.

而且，你知道，他们还会跟我聊天。

And it's it's and, you know, and they'll talk to me.

对。

Yeah.

我其实想问问你，书里有一个瞬间，嗯。

I wanna actually ask you about a moment you had in the book Mhmm.

你自己也有过那种时刻，就是身边有Rarify A或B的人，对吧？

Where you had your own one of those moments where you had someone from Rarify A or B right with you.

我说的是纽约路跑者全国青年运动会。

I'm talking about the New York Roadrunners National Youth Meet.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你跑过几次，但有一次和约翰·特劳特曼有过一场精彩的较量。

You ran a few you ran it a few times, but you had a sweet duel with one John Trautman.

特劳特曼？

Trautman?

约翰·特劳特曼。

John Trautman.

对。

Yeah.

约翰·特劳特曼。

John Trautman.

他后来，给我们的听众说一下，创造了全美高中3000米纪录。

And he would go on for our listeners to set the national high school 3,000 meter record.

他入选了1992年奥运会代表队，还是乔治城大学距离接力赛世界纪录队伍的一员。

He made the nineteen ninety two Olympic team, and he was part of the team that set the world record at the distance medley relay in Georgetown.

你和他比过赛。

You raced him.

你写过一篇关于他的精彩文章。

You wrote a thrilling piece about him.

我想把时间交给你。

I just wanna give you the floor.

跟我们说说你对那场比赛的记忆吧。

Tell us about what you remember from the race.

和他一起跑步，那感觉像是一个转折点，对吧？

How was that in a sliding doors moment of running with him?

是的。

Yeah.

嗯，这真的很有意思，因为我们以前常去范科特兰公园，至少在美国东海岸的越野跑历史上，那里算是越野跑的圣地。

Well, this is this is really interesting because he we used to go to Van Cortland Park, which is in in American at least East Coast American cross country history is is kind of a mecca for cross country running.

范科特兰公园在1600年代是个古老的庄园，后来逐渐变成了一个巨大的公共游乐场。

So Van Cortland Park was an old state back in the sixteen hundreds, and it over the years, it became a massive public playground, basically.

所以那里有垒球场、棒球场、橄榄球场等等。

So there are, you know, there are, softball fields and baseball fields and football fields and all that.

但你去到那里就会意识到，等等。

But then you go there and you realize, wait.

突然间，你会意识到我们生活在一个多么多元的移民社会。

All of a sudden, you realize how much of an immigrant society we live in.

那里有爱尔兰式曲棍球场、盖尔式足球联赛的场地，还有板球俱乐部。

There are hurling fields and, Gaelic football leagues that play there and, cricket clubs that play there.

而且多年来，那里也设置过各种不同距离的越野赛道。

And but over the years, it has been a a a great variety of different distance cross country courses there too.

曼哈顿学院就在它上方的山丘上，位于纽约市的布朗克斯区。

So they've had, Manhattan College is, right above it, in the hills, right above, and it's in The Bronx in in New York City.

所以这里就是城市与乡村的奇特结合。

So it's it's this it's this odd combination of inner city and countryside.

你懂吧？

You know?

这地方真的很特别，小时候去那里感觉特别酷，因为它跟你以前见过的任何地方都不一样。

It's it's a really strange it's it's it's it's a it's a cool it's such a cool place to go when you're a kid because it's so different from anything you've ever seen before.

而且，纽约路跑者俱乐部每年秋天都会在那里举办他们自己的全国越野锦标赛。

And, they had the New York Roadrunners Club held their version of a national cross country championship there every fall.

所以我的教练马克·韦特莫尔会带我们一群人去那里，参加不同年龄组的比赛。

And so my coach, Mark Wetmore, would take us take a club of us there, and we'd run the the different age group races.

连续几年，我都跑了三千米的比赛，那是我们那个年龄段的项目。

And for a few years in a row, I ran the there was the 3,000 meter race, which was for our age.

我不确定我们是少年组还是青年组，反正就是那个年龄段。

I don't know if we were the midget boys or the, the youth boys or whatever way where we're.

特别是有一次比赛，那是我们第一次跑公墓山，就是范科特兰公园里那个著名的公墓山，那里确实有个公墓。

And, one race in particular, this was the first time we had run up Cemetery Hill, famed famed Cemetery Hill in Van Cortlandt Park, where there is actually a cemetery.

那是范科特兰特家族的墓地，赛道就从旁边经过。

It was the family it was the Van Cortlandt family cemetery, and so the trail runs right by it.

所以我在比赛，你知道，这已经是几年后了，我对这场比赛还挺有信心的。

And so I'm racing, and I have you know, this is a couple of years in, and, I have a certain amount of confidence going into this race.

我当时想，我觉得我能赢下这场比赛。

And I'm like, I think I can take this race.

这是我的比赛。

This is my race.

然后发令枪响了，我们跑过田野，上了小路，我来了个急转弯，冲上了那个陡峭的墓地山。

And so the gun goes off, and we run across the field and up into the path, and I make a a U-turn and go up this the steep cemetery hill.

我本来领先，但突然之间，我就不领先了。

And I'm leading, and then all of a sudden, I'm not leading.

另一个家伙很轻松地超过了我。

And this other guy goes by me pretty easily.

我当时想，我来自新泽西的伯纳兹维尔，那里到处都是山坡，这家伙怎么……

And I'm thinking coming from Bernardsville, New Jersey with all our hills, it's like I this this guy's this guy's

这可是你的地盘。

This is your turf.

对。

Yeah.

他太拼了。

He's working too hard.

他肯定撑不了多久。

There's no way he can keep this up.

我低声说了句，比如，你等着瞧吧。

And I said something under my breath like, you know, you're gonna die.

你懂吧？

You know?

这就是我的想法。

Like, that's that's my thought.

结果我不小心把心里话说出来了。

So my thought escaped my lips.

然后他说，我们到了山顶，翻过去开始往下跑，回到主阅兵场，那里就是终点线。

And, he goes, and then we get to the crest of the hill and come over and start going back down to the main parade ground, which is where the finish line is.

但他没有跟上来。

And he's not coming back to me.

我当时就想，等等。

And I'm like, wait a second.

这不对劲。

This isn't right.

我们跑下去，范科特兰赛道最后800米是下坡，然后是一大片平地，接着就是完全平坦的终点直道，这很出名。

And we get down, and Van Cortland is famous for, like, the last 800 meters is downhill onto a big flat, and then it's dead flat to the finish line.

所以所有田径选手都喜欢范科特兰赛的终点，因为感觉就像在跑田径赛，而且跑道是煤渣路面。

So all the track guys love the the finish of the Van Cortland Races because it feels like a track race, and you're running on, a cinder kind of a surface.

于是我就想，好吧。

And so I'm like, okay.

没问题。

No problem.

我能追上他。

I'll get him.

我能追上他。

I'll get him.

然后我们冲下山坡，来到平地上，转弯往终点方向跑。

And we come I come down the hill, and I come down onto the flats, and we make the turn for home.

他离我越来越近，越来越近，越来越近。

And he's coming back to me, coming back to me, coming back to me.

然后我们冲过终点线，他赢了我，大概也就几步的距离吧。

And then we crossed the finish line, and he beat me by, I don't know, a couple of steps or whatever.

天哪。

Oh my god.

跑完了

Run out

跑道不够用了。

of run run out of runway.

我就是跑道不够长了。

I just ran out of runway.

就这样，当然，玩笑话是，要是再有两英里，我就能追上他了。

That was it, and I kept I the joke, of course, was if it was two miles, I would have gotten them.

但谁知道呢。

But I don't know.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

结果那个小孩就是约翰·特劳特曼，或者说后来成了约翰·特劳特曼。

And it turns out that kid was John Troutman or would become John Troutman.

对。

Yeah.

然后比赛结束，我们走过去，你猜怎么着，我完全不知道，赛后我去找我爸，他正站在场上跟约翰·特劳特曼的爸爸聊天。

And so and we finish, and we go and and, you know, little do I know I run I I go looking for my dad after the race, and he's over standing on the field talking to John Troutman's dad.

我当时就想，啊，好吧。

And I'm like, ah, okay.

所以，就像你说的，特劳特曼后来在宾夕法尼亚州打破了普雷·方丹的3000米纪录，当时他还在上高中，后来还成了奥运选手。

So, you know, so try like, as you said, Troutman went on to to break pre Fontaine's 3,000 meter record at at Penn, actually, in high school and then went on to be an Olympian.

我看过的最精彩的比赛之一，就是他在乔治城大学和迈克·斯塔尔一起跑最后一棒，参加距离接力赛，还创造了世界纪录。

And and one of the best races I've ever seen was when he at Georgetown with Mike Starr, on the anchor leg, ran the distance medley and set the world record in the distance medley.

所以，他是货真价实的。

So he's, you know, he's he was for real.

他可不是能忽视的对手。

He was not to be ignored.

这些年来我们有过几次交锋，但最后在大学比赛之类的场合遇到时，我们还是会聊聊天。

And we had a couple of run ins over the years, but he was, we ended up, you know, meeting at meets in college and stuff and chitchatting.

我们算不上朋友。

And, you know, we can't I friends.

我也不确定。

I don't know.

但肯定算是友好关系。

Friendly, definitely.

他现在在纽约大学当教练。

And now he he's coaching at NYU now.

他有没有因为你关于山丘的评论来找你算账？

Did he did he come back on did he come back at you for your comment on the hills?

他听到你关于山丘的评论了吗？

Did he hear your comment on the hill?

他有一本那本书。

He has a copy of the book.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

他们都在等一个电话。

They all just were waiting for a call.

没有。

No.

他什么都没说。

He never said anything.

而且，你知道，这就是那种事情。

And and it's and, you know, because and it's one of those things.

挺有意思的。

It's funny.

你那时候还是个小孩子。

You're a little kid.

你说了这么一句话，然后呢，我为此尴尬了很久。

You say this thing, and you're like and I I was embarrassed by it for a long time.

我从没跟任何人说过。

I never told anybody.

后来我把它写进了书里，我就想，你知道吗？

And and then I wrote it in the book, and I'm like, you know what?

说实话，我不确定我当时说的时候他有没有听到。

It's you know, I don't know if he even heard it when I said it, honestly.

但在我脑子里，我觉得自己说得特别大声。对。

But it's, in my head, I said it really loudly Mhmm.

你知道吗，就是为了表明一个观点。

You know, to make a point.

然后他，他拍了我一下。

And and he and he thumped me.

你懂吗？

You know?

感觉挺好的。

It was good.

那场比赛跑得不错。

It was a good race.

不过他人真的超级超级好，是个好教练，自己在体育界也有很辉煌的历史。

So but he's, yeah, he's he's a super, super, super nice guy and a and a good coach and a and has a tremendous history in the sport himself.

我是说，话虽如此，那个人可是奥运选手，而你……对。

I mean, having said having said that, that guy is an Olympian, and you're Mhmm.

早几年的话，你永远不知道别人会怎么发展，但你基本上是和那些后来成为奥运选手的人并驾齐驱。

Few years earlier, so you never know how people are gonna develop, but you're basically running stride for stride with with people who've gone to be Olympians.

对。

Yeah.

而且我读这本书的时候感觉，

And it seemed to me reading the reading the book again that.

这位生态学家好像一直被伤病困扰，或者说有一种伤，一直没查出来，慢慢发展成了问题。

Ecologist is sort of hampered by injuries or an injury that that kind of went on developed or was undiagnosed and developed.

是的。

Yep.

可能还导致你表现不佳。

And probably caused you to underperform.

你觉得是这样吗？

Mean, do you think, is that true?

你有没有一种感觉，就是，哎，要是我当时顺顺利利的，没受伤，没受影响，

Do you have, do you have a sort of inkling that, oh, what if, if I'd had a straight run on on him unhindered unhurt me.

没被拖累。

Unhindered.

没有。

No.

这就是我们在这里要问的

That's We're here to ask

那些尖锐的问题，在我们的播客里。

the hard questions on our podcast.

对。

Yeah.

说实话，这其实是我写这本书的一个很大的原因。

It's it's really I mean, that's a big part of part of why I wrote the book, honestly.

因为你在某种程度上是在梳理自己的个人心理。

It's it's because you're kinda working through all this personal psychology.

我有个好朋友，叫杰夫·雷迪。

And I had a good friend of mine, my friend Jeff, Reddy.

他是我在把书给别人看之前，先寄过去的人之一。

He was one of the guys I I sent the book to before I pursued anybody else seeing it.

我把书稿寄给了马克·韦特莫尔，想看看他的意见，我最在意他对这本书的看法。

I sent it I sent it to Mark, Wetmore to see, he he was, I was the most concerned about what he thought about it.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我想确保内容准确无误。

Because I wanted I wanted to make sure it was right.

我想确认我的记忆是准确的，或者说至少是合理的。

I wanted to make sure my memories were, you know, right or at least reasonable.

而他的反馈非常棒。

And, his response was was great.

他回信时提了一些想法，特别是关于亚瑟·莱尔·史密斯的部分，以及莱尔·史密斯可能说过的话。

I mean, he he came back with a couple of, thoughts about, specifically thoughts about Arthur Lyle Smith and what Lyle Smith might have said Mhmm.

他帮我纠正了几处地方。

And sort of corrected me on a couple of things.

除此之外，他觉得内容很准确，和他记忆中的情况一致，诸如此类。

And but otherwise, he thought it was right on the mark, it was as he remembered and that kind of stuff.