人人皆可卓越马拉松，作者：约翰·J·戴维斯 博士

我得每周跑一百公里来训练马拉松，或者至少得比原来多跑十公里。

I've gotta do my marathon training at a 100 k per week, or I've gotta do my marathon training, kind of kick it up a little bit from what I was doing to 10 k more per week.

但你的意思是，这种做法只在一定阶段有效，之后更重要的是：你能不能做好关键的马拉松训练课，并且充分恢复，而不是先去算这周跑了多远。

But actually, you're saying that that's relevant to a certain point, but after a while, it's really, can you do those key marathon related workouts and recover before before you would think about, well, how many miles have I done this week?

因为我们俱乐部就是这么做的。

Because that's what we do as a club.

每周日跑完轻松跑之后，大家都会聚在Strava的排行榜上看成绩。

We get together on the Strava table on on Sunday on Sunday on Sunday.

跑完周日的轻松跑后，这一周就算结束了，大家看看榜单，说：‘哦，我又达标了，这周又跑了一百公里。’

After the easy run.

但说实话，我们这么做，其实有点儿误区。

After the easy run on Sunday, the week is finished and we have a look at the table and go oh yeah I'm up there I've got you know I've got an that's a banked another week with a 100 k in it but we are we're committing we're committing a bit of an error, it would seem.

是的。

Yeah.

关于跑量的问题，书里确实有计划提到每周跑160公里以上。

I mean, the thing with the the thing with mileage is, I'm I'm not obviously, there's plans for, like, up to a 160 plus k a week in the book.

我不是反对跑量。

Like, I'm not against mileage.

你得问问自己，跑这么多里程到底是为了什么？

The the question you gotta ask yourself is what is the mileage for?

是为了提升完成那些长距离高强度训练的能力吗？

Is it for building the ability to do those big long workouts?

如果是的话，我觉得确实如此，那一旦你有能力完成这些训练，就该专心做训练，然后好好恢复。

If it is, and I think it is, then the once you become able to do the workouts, then you got to do the workout and then recover afterwards.

比如说，你终于能完成一次长距离快速跑，但跑完之后发现这周才跑了94公里，于是哪怕计划明明让你明天休息、彻底恢复，你还是觉得不行，得再跑六公里凑够一百。

So say you get to the point where you can do one of those big long fast runs, but then you do that run and then you're like, Oh, I'm only at 94 ks for this week and even if the plan says take a rest day tomorrow and really recover and you're like oh no I gotta get those six ks in to get to a 100.

我觉得这是错的，或者你也许真休息了一天，但周一又出门了，明明腿都废了、状态差到极点，还硬逼自己跑个十四到十五公里。

I think that's a mistake or if you you maybe you maybe you do take a day off and then you you get out on Monday and you're like, oh, well, I gotta get my 14 or 15 k run-in even though my legs are trash and I feel terrible.

在马拉松专项阶段，我觉得这确实是个误区，因为你应该循序渐进地恢复，真正吸收那些高强度训练带来的效果。

In the marathon specific phase, I think that's that's a mistake because you wanna be really gradually building yourself back up and really absorbing the benefits of those big workouts.

因为如果有人这么说，嘿，我就是这么做的。

Because if someone is like, hey, I did like this.

我曾经连续跑了25公里，配速是马拉松配速，接着又跑了30公里，之后休息了几天，然后又连续跑了32公里，配速是马拉松配速的95%。

I did 25 k continuous at marathon pace, and then I did 30 you know, then I took several easy days, and then I did 32 k continuous, at 95% of marathon pace.

你这时候已经准备好上场了，真的。

I'm like, gosh, you're like ready to you're ready to go.

就是直接出去，把比赛跑完就行了。

Like, it's just, you know, just just like get out there and and run the race.

那时候我根本不在乎他们跑了多远，因为很明显，他们的体能已经完全针对马拉松了。

And like, I almost don't care what their mileage is in that at that moment because they clearly, their fitness is is is highly marathon specific.

所以你要想的是，该怎么达到这种状态？

So the question you have to ask is, like, how do I get there?

跑量确实是达到这个状态的关键，毕竟跑32公里还保持不错的速度，必须得有足够累积的跑量才能撑得住。

And mileage is a big part of getting there because a 32 k run at a decent clip, like, need to have some base of volume to be able to do that.

但跑量只是工具之一，它只是让你能完成专项训练的基础。

But mileage is just one of the tools, and it's just it's it's the mileage is the base that allows you to do the specific work.

它并不是你唯一该拼命追求的东西。

It's not, like, the singular thing you should always be optimizing for.

所以这意味着，在马拉松准备阶段，你的跑量可能反而比专项阶段还要高？

So does that mean that you might actually be running more mileage in the marathon supportive phase instead of the specific phase.

因为你不会在那个阶段做那些超长训练，那些都留到马拉松专项阶段再做。

Like because you won't be doing those giant workouts because those are saved for the marathon specific phase.

是的，没错。

Yes, yeah.

通常都是这样，我觉得书里几乎所有的计划都是这样：跑量峰值出现在马拉松准备阶段，而不是专项阶段。

Very often, and I think in almost all the plans in the book, mileage peaks in the marathon supportive phase and not in the marathon specific phase.

我觉得这也是很多人容易出问题的地方——他们一边增加跑量，一边又提升训练的强度和负荷。

I think that that's another one of the ways where people kind of get themselves in trouble is they're growing their mileage and they're growing the volume intensity of their workouts all at the same time.

结果就是，他们在跑量最大的那一周，还安排了最艰苦的训练。

And so they have the biggest hardest workouts in the week with the biggest mileage.

这难道不是对他们来说负担太重了吗？

And it just like, is this just too much for them?

这挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

明白了。

Okay.

我觉得我得仔细看看这些计划，但一般来说，跑量通常是会达到峰值的。

I think that I I'm not like I would need to go and really look at the plans, but like, I think normally plans in terms of mileage, they tend to peak.

峰值一般就在你比赛前不久。

Peak just before you Yeah,

马拉松前最后六周，你总会感觉有点疲倦。

you're always feeling kind of stale in that last like six weeks before the marathon.

所以我觉得至少那些高级跑者的计划，峰值可能会来得更晚一些。

So I think that at least the advanced marathoning ones, they probably peak later.

不过这么想确实有道理。

But but that makes sense.

所以这大概就是这些计划与常规方案略有不同的一点。

So I guess that's just one way that this these plans might be a little bit different.

你刚才还提到了一天跑两趟的事。

And also you talk about talk about double runs.

我其实特别喜欢一天跑两次，之前我的教练就一直安排我们这么练。我发现这种安排恢复起来轻松很多，我们以前都是按分钟来规划训练量的，

So I actually like double runs a lot because I've always found, like, had a my previous coach used to give us double runs, and I used to find that it was a lot easier to recover from, let's say, a forty five minute and I because we used to train in minutes.

比如一次跑45分钟、一次跑75分钟，总时长和一口气跑2小时一样，但恢复起来轻松太多了。

So forty five minutes and seventy five minute runs rather than one big two hour run.

那你一般会建议从来没试过一天跑两次的跑者，从什么时候开始安排这种训练呢？

So when do you usually start incorporating doubles like in terms of just for runners that maybe have never done that before?

是得先让他们把每周的跑步天数拉满再说吗，还是说这个其实没什么影响？

Like would you first have them max out their number of days per week or does it does it not matter?

对，我觉得我比一般教练更推崇双练，尤其是当我们在为某人做长期规划的时候。比如我会想，好吧，这次训练周期你只跑90到95公里。

Yeah, I think I tend to be more enthusiastic about doubles than the average coach, particularly when I'm thinking about long term plans for someone where from like, okay, you're only going to be running, I don't say ninety, ninety five ks this build.

但下一次，我们希望达到105公里，然后是115公里，也许再增加到120、125公里。

But next time around, we want it to be 105 and then we want it to be 115 and then maybe 120, 125.

如果我提前规划，我会想，好吧，为了每周能跑125公里，他们需要做好哪些准备？

If I'm thinking ahead, I'm like, okay, what do they need to be ready to do to run 125 k a week?

我会觉得，你知道的，大概需要三到四次双练。

I'm thinking like, you know, three, four doubles probably.

没错。

And of yeah.

可能是八公里和十四公里这样的搭配。

Maybe maybe they they maybe it's like eight k and 14 k, something like that.

在这个训练量下，这算是他们平时的轻松日了。

It's like kind of a normal easy day for them at that volume.

我会从现在开始，一周期一周期、一年一年地倒推回去。

So I'm walking that backwards cycle by cycle, year by year till now.

我觉得在这个训练周期里，对这个人来说，每周早上跑两次五到六公里，轻松跑，其实很有帮助。

And I'm like, okay, well, I actually think it's valuable this training cycle for that person maybe twice a week to get out and do five or six ks, very easy in the mornings.

不过实际操作中，这很大程度上取决于每个人的作息安排等等。

Now in in practice, like, it depends a lot on, like, people's work schedule and whatever.

有些人如果特别忙，已经累得睡不够了，我就不会让他们跑两次。

Some people, if they're like, I'm so busy, like, I I'm already, like, really gassed for sleep, I I I won't.

我会让他们只跑一次，但通过其他方式增加总跑量。

I'll just have them do singles and and increase their volume more that way.

但我通常会更早引入一天两练，就是因为我刚才说的这个原因。

But I tend to introduce doubles earlier both for that reason I just explained.

还有你提到的那种情况——如果单纯从理论上讲，假设恢复和休息都做到极致，哪种方式对身体的负担更大？

And then for the one that you mentioned where if you just think about it, like, in the abstract, assuming, like, maximum recovery and rest and all that, what's harder on your body?

是连续跑16公里，还是早晚各跑8公里，速度一样？

16 ks continuous or eight ks in the morning, eight ks in the evening, both same speed?

大概率是早晚分开跑的这种安排更累。

Probably it's the morning and the evening split.

所以回到里程数的问题上，要想在一周内完成所需的跑量，哪种方式对身体的压力最小？

And so if I'm thinking getting back to the mileage thing like, what's the lowest stress way to get the volume we need in the week?

通常来说，把跑步分成两次进行会更合适。

It's generally going to be splitting runs into into two sessions.

再从现实角度看，看看世界上顶尖的马拉松选手，他们每周的训练次数能达到十二三次。

And then there's just the pragmatic argument that, like, when you look at the best marathoners in the world, like, well, they're doing, like, twelve, thirteen training sessions a week.

这说明，这么做肯定有它的道理。

So, like, clearly, it's there's something there.

但就像我说的，如果有人特别忙之类的，我也不是那种特别死板的人，觉得每个人都必须得跑双训到某个里程。

But, yeah, like I said, if someone is is super busy or whatever, I'm I'm not, like, a super dogmatic, like, everybody needs to be doubling at such and such volume.

但我还是会提前安排双训，主要是考虑到恢复这方面因素。

But I do introduce them earlier because of because to a large extent of that that recovery aspect.

我觉得，我常看到的一个错误是，有人周六跑个30公里，周日又跑20或25公里。

I think, again, one of the mistakes people I see people make is like they they get that 30 ks run-in on Saturday and then Sunday, they're doing 20 k or 25 k.

他们总是把所有长跑都堆在单次里，只为凑够周总量，其实如果平时加几趟轻松的双训，效果可能更好。

They're just, like, really stacking all these, like, long single runs to hit their volume when maybe it would have been better if they just added some super easy doubles during the week.

那如果你要让一个人开始双训，最短的单次跑量会是多少？

And what would the shortest double be that you would, let's say, start someone at?

如果从长远来看，我以前带过高中生。

If I'm thinking, like, long term I mean, I I used to coach high school.

我现在还是会。

I still Okay.

给几个高中生提供一些指导。

Advise a couple of high schoolers.

所以我经常想的是三四年之后的事。

So I I'm all very often thinking, like, three, four years down the line.

我会让运动员跑二十分钟。

I'll I'll have people do, like, twenty minutes.

特别轻松的节奏。

Super easy.

也就是不到五公里的距离。

Like, so, like, less than less than five k.

我知道这种做法也挺有争议的。

Again, I know that's also kinda, like, controversial.

网上流传着各种说法，比如六公里、八公里，或者三十分钟之类的。

People there's various numbers floating around of, like, six k or eight k or thirty minutes or whatever for like

我以前的教练说过，所有跑步都不能少于三十分钟，他说是看到什么研究说生长激素的分泌有关。

Yeah, my coach back in the day, I think he said like none of the runs should be less than thirty minutes because he said something about, I think like he read something about growth hormone secretion or something.

具体是多久我记不清了，反正教练说了，我就照做，就这么简单。

And I think it took like, I don't know, I don't remember exactly, all I did was, you know coach said it, so I did it kind of things.

但那个数字一直记在我心里。

But that number always stuck with me.

我带一些运动员时，从来不会让他们跑少于三十分钟。

I'm like, you know, I coach some athletes and I will never have them do less than thirty minutes.

如果我要让他们跑少于三十分钟，那我就干脆只安排一次短跑。

If I'm gonna have them do less than thirty minutes, I'm just gonna have them do like one single run.

所以。

So

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我采用老派的双练法：六十分钟跑步，二十分钟遛狗。

Do the I do the old guys double, which is sixty minute run, twenty minute dog walk.

可能效果没那么好，但这就是我的做法。

Probably not as effective, but there you go.

是的。

Yeah.

我通常不会，如果一个人的训练已经比较成熟了，我们一般已经达到了能继续提升的训练量。

I when I and I don't I don't usually like, if someone is sort of, like, mature in their, like, training, like we've, you know, reached the volume that we're we're probably gonna progress to.

通常来说，三十分钟或者六公里是我会安排的最短训练，但如果目标是两三年后能跑四十分钟、八十分钟，那今年我们每周安排几次二十分钟和五十分钟的训练，我也完全没问题。

Usually, yeah, thirty minutes or like six k is probably the shortest I'll do, but I'm I'm not at all hesitant to if the goal is to get maybe get to a point where we can do forty minutes and eighty minutes a couple years from now, I'm fine with if this year we a couple days a week we do like twenty and fifty something like that.

所以你其实是在培养这种习惯。

So you're seeding the habit basically at that point.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

明白了。

Okay.

约翰，我特别喜欢你书里的一点，就是你的训练计划里包含了这么多不同类型的跑步。

One things that I found great about your book, John, was the amount of different types of running that there is in your programs.

我觉得你在书里一开始就这么提过。

I think that's one of the things that you mentioned early on in the book.

我觉得是在第二章。

I think in the second chapter.

这对马拉松跑者来说特别吸引人，因为你可以跑很多。

That's kind of appealing because basically if you're a marathon runner, you can do a lot of running.

不管你的水平如何，这个量对你来说都不少。

And any way you look at it, whatever level you're at, it's it's a lot for whatever your level is.

所以我特别关注跑步方式的多样性。

So I was particularly interested in the sort of variation in the runs.

我觉得这部分能让你保持心理上的新鲜感。

I think part of that is keeps you mentally fresh.

不会觉得纯粹是在熬日子。

You don't feel like it's a grind so much.

内容一直在变化。

It's changing up.

特别吸引我注意的是那种交替配速的长跑训练。

Something that caught my eye in particular was the long run with alternating kilometers.

莉兹之前提到过这个。

Liz touched on it earlier.

我们以前也做过一些训练计划，里面包含大段的马拉松配速跑。

We've done training programs that have your big marathon pace blocks in them.

就是一直不停地跑，不停歇。

And you just go and go and go.

其中有几次我们根本撑不下来。

And we've done a few of them where we've just failed.

最后只能放弃，说算了，不跑了。

And we've just gone, okay, let's stop.

这根本做不到。

This is not gonna happen.

干脆退回来，就在家慢跑算了。

Let's dial it right back and just jog at home.

所以这个方式引起了我的注意，它提供了一种不同的尝试方法。

And so it catches my eye as different ways of of trying to do this.

在一些训练计划里，你会看到这种超过20公里的长跑，每公里交替变速——要么跑马拉松配速，然后降下来；要么超过马拉松配速，再降到低于配速，每一公里都在调整节奏。

So in some of the programs you've got these long runs, I guess it's more than 20 k with alternating kilometers where either you go to marathon pace and then you drop off or you go above marathon pace and then you drop below marathon pace but at each k you're changing up the speed.

这种练法难度大吗？虽然现在有GPS手表，监控起来不难，但这么做的用意到底是什么？

How difficult is that to do and I guess with GPS watches not so difficult to monitor but what's the idea behind that?

是的，这种交替公里训练是源自意大利传统的经典训练方式，比如贾琳达·博登、雷纳托·卡诺瓦他们那一派的。

Yeah so the alternating kilometer session is classic workout that comes from kind of like the Italian lineage, Jalinda Borden, and, like, Renato Canova and all them.

现在很多顶尖的肯尼亚和埃塞俄比亚选手也在用。

And then now you see a lot of the top Kenyan Ethiopians doing it.

它的目的，是为了解决我们之前提到的那个问题：

And the idea is it's trying to solve the problem we were talking about earlier with the, okay.

我明明能跑10公里，可一旦想连续跑12公里到这个速度，根本撑不住。

Well, I can't do 10 I once I try to do 12 k at this fast speed uninterrupted, like, it's just so hard.

要是真想跑16公里，那简直太疯狂了。

Clearly, if you're gonna do 16 k, that would be just, like, crazy.

简直难到离谱。

It's crazy, crazy hard.

所以解决办法是，不如这样：跑一公里，就按半马配速，也就是马拉松配速的105%。

So the solution is like, okay, what if we do like one k at, call it half marathon pace, 105% of marathon pace?

但别像间歇训练那样歇一分钟，也别硬撑着继续那个速度，不如把速度降15%，保持在一个还算很快的节奏上。

But then instead of just like walking for a minute like you would in an interval workout or instead of just trying to continue at that same pace, what if we drop it back 15% and kind of like float at still a pretty fast speed?

你要是算算，比105%慢15%是多少，其实大概还是相当于长距离快跑，也就是马拉松配速的90%左右。

So if you're thinking about like how fast is 15% slower than that one on five, it's still about that kind of long, fast run 90 ish percent of marathon pace.

所以你还是在挺快地跑着。

So you're still moving pretty good.

这背后其实有生理学上的道理，好处不少。

And there's some technical physiological reasons for why that's beneficial.

本质上，就是让身体被迫更积极地处理和消耗乳酸。

Essentially, it's like creating a situation where your body is strongly induced to shuttle and oxidize lactate.

你保持稳定状态，身体就会被逼着让肌纤维去应对我们之前说的那些高浓度乳酸。

So you're at a steady state, you're you're you are incentivizing your muscle fibers to take that high ambient level of lactate that we were talking about earlier

对。

Mhmm.

然后让肌肉纤维吸收，再用氧气把它消耗掉。

And then pull it into muscle fibers and then burn it using oxygen.

所以你是在有氧状态下燃烧乳酸。

So you're aerobically burning lactate.

这算是科学上的解释。

That's kind of the scientific explanation.

但更实际的说法是，这样：

But the more practical explanation is like, okay.

连续跑15公里，全程按半马配速，这根本不可能。

So 15 k continuous at half marathon pace, that's totally off the table.

那如果我们改成先跑一段，再按照你刚才说的这种节奏逐步推进呢？

What if we start with and then the progression that you

完全不可能。

Absolutely off the table.

我通常从这样的训练开始

Progression I start with

好的，书上说

in okay, the book is

先逐步增加到八组一公里，保持那个配速

let's build up to eight by one k at that speed.

每组大概花一分钟到一分半钟，之后轻松散步恢复

It'll take a minute, minute and a half, just walk recovery.

接下来我们可以做七组1200米

And then maybe we do seven by 1,200.

距离稍微加长一点，但恢复还是靠散步

So we're just going a little bit further and still taking a walk recovery.

然后我们可以说，好吧

And then we'll say, okay.

不再在1200米后休息一分半钟，而是改成跑400米连续过渡，接着马上再跑下一组

Instead of taking a minute and a half walk after 1,200 meters, we're gonna do 400 meters continuous floating, then and we're going to go again.

然后就是1200米、400米、1200米、400米这样循环。

And then so 1,200, 400, 1,200, 400.

接着你可以把这一套训练改成跑一公里、歇一公里的模式。

And then you take that session, turn it into one k on, one k off.

这样恢复时间更长了，但总训练量也上去了。

So you get more recovery, but then the volume is up.

比如你可以做八组一公里跑加一公里休息，休息时速度大概慢15%左右。

So maybe it's maybe you do eight by one k on, one k off, and the off is still, you know, maybe 15% slower.

接下来，进步的方式其实有很多选择。

And then what you there's a lot of options for progressing it.

我比较喜欢的一种是，把休息那段也加快速度。

One that I like to do is actually take the recovery and then make it faster.

这其实是更贴近马拉松训练的进阶方式。

That's actually that's the kind of the more marathon specific way of progressing it.

如果你在备战半马、15公里或者16公里的比赛，也可以用同样的方法。

You do the same thing for, like, you're if training for half marathon or 15 k or 16 k race.

通常你会尝试安排成两公里、一公里、两公里、一公里这样循环。

Often, what you do is you you try to go for you make it, like, two k, one k, two k, one k, two k, one k.

实际上，书里那些马拉松配速训练计划用的就是这种模式，因为用中等配速也能做完全相同的安排。

And, actually, that is the pattern that the the plans in the book use with workouts at marathon pace because you can do the exact same thing with okay.

我会以马拉松配速跑一公里，然后以马拉松配速的85%轻松跑一段，总共大概24公里。

I'm gonna do one k at marathon pace, one k float at 85% of marathon pace for some some distance, maybe 24 kilometers total.

下一次训练，你可以改成连续跑两公里马拉松配速，再接一公里轻松跑。

Then the next time you can do, okay, I'm gonna go two k continuous at marathon pace, then one k float.

再过几周，就变成连续跑三公里马拉松配速，然后一公里轻松跑。

A couple weeks later, three k continuous, one k float.

这样你就把越来越多的跑步段落连在一起，中间不再中断。

So you're you're stitching together more and more uninterrupted running.

当你做到几个三公里加一公里的组合时，实际上你已经连续以马拉松配速跑了将近四分之三的训练量。

So, like, by the time you get to some number of three k, one k, that's basically like you're you're running marathon pace continuously for, like, 75%, three three quarters of the workout.

到了比赛当天，就像卸掉了辅助轮一样，直接开跑，最后那公里轻松段也去掉，全程一气呵成。

And then, like, on race day, it's kinda like the training wheels come off and just, away you go and you just like, you sort of removed the final floating k and you just run it straight through.

我明白这种训练方式的原理了。

I can see how that pellet works.

从逻辑上讲，确实说得通。

Know, logically makes sense.

是的，你刚才提到的这种训练能带来生理上的好处，比如提升乳酸转运能力，同时它还有一种心理上的优势，就是把目标拆分了。

Yeah, you get the physiological benefit that you've just told us about in terms of developing your lactate shuttle, but you've also got this mental approach, which is you've chunked it.

所以心理上，你只需要想着下一步就行。

So mentally you only have to think about, okay.

我只需要专注跑好接下来的一公里。

All I have to think about is the next one k.

对。

Mhmm.

这是第一公里。

This is the first k.

跑完之后能稍微休息一下。

I get some form of arrest afterwards.

你只是在心理上把自己投射到未来而已。

And you're only mentally, you're only projecting yourself perhaps.

我反正是这么做的。

I would anyway.

你只是把注意力集中在当前这一公里的终点。

You're only projecting yourself to the end of this k.

然后你就放松下来了。

And then you then then you're dropping down.

也许你并没有完全放松，但这种做法带来的效果会非常明显。

Maybe you're not dropping down too much, but you'll feel the benefit of that quite significantly.

接着你休息一下，为下一次做准备。

And then you're resting and getting ready.

希望你真的在好好休息。

Hopefully, you're resting.

然后放松一下，为下一公里做好准备。

And Floating, getting ready for the next one k.

这仅仅是一种心理上的专注，只针对这一公里。

And it's only a mental it's only a mental focus for a one k.

对。

Mhmm.

没错。

Yeah.

所以四到五分钟。

So four to five minutes.

这种训练另一个心理上的好处是，你在培养自己相信：我有能力恢复。比如你在每公里五分钟的节奏下做漂浮恢复。

The the other the other mental advantage of that workout is you're training yourself to think like, I am able to recover at let's say you're doing your float recovery at five minutes per k Mhmm.

对于非常

For very

这速度已经相当不错了。

much Which is still pretty Yeah.

这速度依然相当不错。

That's still a pretty good pace.

所以你其实是在训练自己感受：在每公里五分钟的速度下，我并不是在硬撑。

And so you're actually training yourself to feel like, okay, at this, at five minutes per K, I'm not hanging out.

我确实在恢复。

I'm actually recovering.

我正在重新积蓄能量。

I'm regenerating.

我可以适当放慢，调整状态，然后重新准备好继续前进吗？

And like, I can I can back off and like rebuild my like readiness to go again?

去年冬天，我让一些人试用训练计划，其中有几位做低强度计划的，在比赛后给我发了邮件，说他们状态特别好。

When I had people, like, beta testing the the training plans last winter, a couple of them who were doing lower volume plans emailed me after the race and then, yeah, I was I was going really good.

但我以为自己在32公里处撞墙了。

And then I thought I hit I I hit a wall at 32 k.

可过了几公里后，我看了一眼手表，发现自己的配速还是保持在当初马拉松配速的95%左右。

And then after a couple k, looked at my watch, I was still going like 95% of what my original know, what my like original marathon pace was.

所以这跟通常的情况不一样——通常你撞墙之后，就彻底垮了。

So instead of like the usual pattern of like, okay, like you kinda hit the wall, and then you just,

然后就一下子撑不住了。

And like then it just crumbles.

每公里五分三十秒，六分钟一公里。

Five thirty per k, six minutes per k.

你只要稍微放慢一点，比如每公里慢个十来秒，就会发现，哎，其实我状态还不错。

It's like you just back off, like, 55, 15, you know, ten seconds per k, and, like, you're like, oh, this is actually I'm actually fine.

我就能这样一直保持这个速度继续跑下去。

I can just, like, I can just, like, keep motoring at this speed.

这其实也是那种浮动恢复训练一个被严重低估的好处。

That's another I think big underrated benefit of that kind of floating recovery workout.

明白了。

Okay.

在训练计划里，有没有一个节点，如果你没通过测试，就得认真考虑降低目标了？

Is there a, in the training program, is there a point where you come up to a test And if you don't pass that test, you should really be thinking of revising downwards your ambition for rest day.

是的。

Yeah.

有几个关键点，我特别不愿意把所有希望都押在一件事上，觉得‘就靠这一场了’。

A couple of the key there's no I I I'm very hesitant to, like, put put all my eggs in one basket and be like, okay.

觉得这一场训练就是全部了。

Like, this is the workout.

你确实得这样。

You gotta Yeah.

一方面是因为每天的状态都会有波动，另一方面，一旦你这么定死，人就容易把训练练得太猛。

Both because, like, there's just variation in how you feel day to day, but also because that, people when you do that, people tend to, like, hammer the workout too hard.

我更希望有两三个参考指标，而不是只看一个。

Like, I I want, like, two or three indicators and not one.

这样做的好处是，既能减少一些波动，也能让我们在比如……

So both because, like, that reduces some of that variance, but also so that, like, if if we're like, okay.

我们跑25公里，配速按马拉松来的时候，

We're doing 25 k at marathon pace.

不会觉得这是唯一重要的黄金训练。

This is the golden session.

人们会拼命完成这次训练，然后之后就彻底耗尽了。

People will just like crush that workout and then then they're so spent afterwards.

你根本没法真正恢复。

It's like you can't really.

这简直就是他们的比赛了。

That was their race basically.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

所以我更关注的是，从整体来看，比如提前两三周、四周的时候。

So, I am much more interested in like, let's look at like kind of globally, you know, two to three, four weeks out.

那些以全程马拉松配速进行的训练是什么样的？

What are those workouts at 100% of marathon pace look like?

显然，这才是最重要的。

Obviously, that's the most important.

95%马拉松配速的训练课是什么样的？

What are the workouts at 95% of marathon pace look like?

105%配速的训练课又是怎样的？

What are the workouts at 105?

所以我们主要关注围绕马拉松配速的这三个关键速度。

So we're like looking at those three key paces right around marathon pace.

你可能在书里注意到，这些训练课都有一个难度评分。

And, one of the things you probably saw in in the book is that the workouts have, a difficulty rating.

比如某个训练课的难度是8分满分为10。

So, like, one of a workout might be eight out of 10.

如果你达到了配速，但感觉难度高达9.5分，练完都快吐在垃圾桶里了，那说明你跑得太快了。

So if you hit the pace, but it was, like, a nine and a half out of 10, like, you were, you know, puking in the trash can afterwards, that's probably an indication that that that was too fast.

如果接连几次都是这种情况，那我们就得适当降一降强度了。

And if you have a couple workouts like that, I'm like, okay, well now we need to walk this back.

书里其实还有一个完整的示例，展示了模拟训练计划，包括平均配速和当时的感受。

And in the book, there's actually a worked example of like, you know, a mock training plan with like, average this pace and here's how I felt.

有这些迹象就能知道，什么时候该上调你的配速预估，跑得更快一点。

Evidence of like, okay, here's when you can increase your your estimate, make it faster.

什么时候该适当放慢。

Here's when you can dial it back.

什么时候说明你的强度正好合适。

And, here's when indicates, like, you're you're about the right intensity.

所以我觉得，对大多数人来说，与其只做一次试跑，不如安排两到三次关键训练更靠谱。

So, yeah, I think, like, two or three key sessions as opposed to, like, the single, like, trial is the way to go for most people.

明白了。

Okay.

我确实想聊聊比赛日的事，因为我觉得书里有一半内容讲的都不是单纯的赛前训练计划。

So I do wanna get to talking about like race day because like I think probably half the book is dedicated to other things, not just the actual training plan for the race.

不过我想问一下，大多数人生活里还有别的事，跑步毕竟不是全部，训练安排也常会调整。

But I just wanted to ask, obviously most people have other things in their life, you know running is not the only thing, they do move workouts around.

那你在调整训练时间时，特别是那些关键的大强度训练，有什么建议吗？

What do you suggest in terms of moving workouts around, especially when they get to those big workouts?

有没有可能，有时候干脆跳过其中一次更好？

Like, is there a point where maybe you're better off skipping one of them?

是的，这个问题经常出现。

Yeah, this comes up all the time.

这是人们问得最多的问题，正因如此

It's like the single most common question that people have, which is why

是的，你专门写了一整个章节来谈这个

Yeah, you have a whole section on

没错。

it too.

比如工作上突然有事，脚踝扭伤了，得错过几次训练，或者生病了之类的。

Yeah, even work is like, okay, I sprained my ankle and I had to miss these workouts and like, blah, blah, I got sick.

几乎每个训练周期都会遇到这种情况。

Like this is like every, almost every training cycle.

你可能要出差，孩子突然生病，或者别的什么事，对吧？

You're need to travel to work, like your kid's gonna get sick, like whatever, right?

天气不好。

Bad weather.

所以呢，如果只是偶尔漏掉一次训练，那就别在意，继续就好。

So, yeah, I mean, if it's like a one off thing, if you just miss one workout, like whatever, just keep going.

但我担心的是那种情况，比如脚踝扭了或者生病了，连续错过了两三次训练。

But what I worry about is like the situations like, oh, I sprained my ankle or I got sick and I missed two or three workouts.

如果你原本在循序渐进，比如从一次一公里过渡到两次一公里，再往三次一公里走，结果你跳过了两次一公里那一步，我可不希望你直接跳到三步之后的高强度训练。

So if you were on one of those progressions of like, Okay, we are going go from one k, one k to two ks, one k to three ks, one k and you missed the two ks, one k, I don't want you just being like, Oh yeah, let's just jump right ahead to this big huge workout that's three steps ahead of where I was.

这时候你就得重新调整，想想看能不能改一下计划。

Then you have to reshuffle things and figure out, okay, can I retool this?

能不能干脆取消后面某一周的训练，把整个安排往后推一推？

Can I just cancel one of the later weeks of training and slide everything back?

我通常是这么想的：你有个十八周的训练计划。

That's kind of the way I think about it is like, okay, you have an eighteen week training plan.

关于这个我们或许可以聊聊，但我个人不太推崇减量期。

Maybe we can talk about this, but I'm not a big taper guy.

所以我只关注马拉松前最后十到十四天。

So I think of only the last ten, fourteen days from the marathon backwards.

通常这段时间保持不变，但如果你错过了第六周和第七周，我会这么做：第十八周是比赛周，第十七周是赛前一周，这两周不动，但取消第十六周和第十五周，然后把前面的训练全部往后顺延，而不是直接跳过两周，下周突然增加三十公里跑量，硬闯那些高强度训练。

That generally you leave alone but if you miss two weeks from I don't know week you you miss week six and seven what I like to do is okay we're not going to touch week 18 that's the race we're not going to touch week 17 That's the week before the race, but we're gonna cancel week sixteen and fifteen and then slide everything back up versus like, nope, I gotta jump two weeks ahead and my mileage is going up like 30 kilometers next week and I'm just gonna dive right into these big hard workouts.

这样做可不会带来好结果。

That is not a recipe for success.

所以，调整训练计划确实是一门学问。

So yeah, is quite a lot to the art of adapting the plan.

没错，你得根据实际情况来判断。

Yeah, you got because you gotta look at, like, the real situation.

对吧？

Right?

比如说，实际情况是我扭伤了脚踝。

Like, okay.

现实就是，我扭伤了脚踝。

The reality is I sprained my ankle.

我有六天根本没法跑步。

I couldn't run for six days.

我们不能假设那六天你跑了整整一百公里，因为你根本没跑。

Like, we can't just imagine that you ran a 100 kilometers in those missing six days because you didn't.

对。

Mhmm.

所以我们得现实一点，看看从现在到比赛之间，情况到底怎么样，能做些什么。

So we gotta look at, like, okay, from now to the race, like what's the situation and what can we do?

是的，很多人会想把所有训练都塞进剩下的时间里，本来每周两次训练，结果接下来两三周硬是加到三次，但如果真是因为受伤才停下来的，不是单纯因为生活原因，最后往往又会旧伤复发。

Yeah, I think also there's this idea, like what a lot of people try and do is cram all the workouts into whatever's remaining, and so instead of two workouts a week, they'll start doing like three workouts a week for the next like two weeks or whatever but then eventually if it was an injury that kept them out and not just life circumstance well they usually get reinjured

没错，这会陷入一个恶性循环，而且你还会遇到我之前说的那个问题——训练强度越大，需要的恢复时间就越长。

yeah yeah there's vicious cycle there and then you run into the problem where like if you're trying to speed run the progression through the workouts, you bump into that issue I mentioned earlier, which is like the bigger the workout, the more recovery you need.

本来该在大强度训练后休息四到五天，你却硬是把另一场高强度训练塞进中间。

So instead of taking the four or five days that you should have taken after your big workout, you're trying to cram another hard workout right in between.

有时候，人还真能撑过去。

So sometimes people will even succeed.

他们甚至能熬过整个训练，但却得不到原本如果安排得宽松一点就能获得的那些效果。

They'll even get through the training, but they won't get the benefits that they would have gotten had they just, like, done a less dense training schedule.

要是不把一周的时间塞得那么满，让训练计划稍微松一点，那些大强度的训练才能真正起作用。

Had they not tried to, like, squeeze so much out of the out of the week And kinda like, those bigger workouts, you kinda gotta, like, let the schedule breathe a little bit.

明白了。

Okay.

训练计划里有一件事，用户很快就会遇到，那就是怎么确定自己的配速目标。

One of the things in the training program is is that that, our users or our readers or our adopters are gonna face very quickly is trying to work out their paces, targeting their paces.

你会教我们怎么选计划，目标是什么，为什么该选某个计划而不是别的。

You you you do talk us through how to choose plan, what what are you trying to achieve, why you should choose certain plans versus other plans.

可供选择的计划很多，时长也各不相同。

There are plenty to choose from and different lengths.

然后是配速，还有基于你配速的百分比。

And then there's paces, and then you have percentages of of your pace.

我一般会先想，我的五公里配速是多少。

You usually, I I tend to figure, well, what what's my five k pace?

然后试着推算一下，因为你可以去跑个五公里比赛，不用太折磨自己，就能测出你现在的真实配速。

And kind of project project the thing off that because you can go out and race a five k and not smack yourself around too much, and get a real pace of what you're currently able to do.

这是个好办法吗？

Is that a good way of doing it?

这正是我在书里推荐的方法。事实上，你会注意到，基础训练阶段都是以五公里配速的百分比作为训练依据的。

That is exactly the method that I recommend for people in the book in fact is that one thing you'll notice is that the general phase uses percentages of five ks pace as the basis for training.

原因嘛，就像你刚才说的，五公里配速很容易估算出来。

The reason for that is a, just what you mentioned, it's very easy to get an estimate of what your five k pace is.

另外，如果你跑过十公里、八公里或者半马，用这些数据来预测五公里配速会靠谱得多，总比那种‘我从来没跑过马拉松，随便估个三十二分钟配速’要准。

And also if you've run like a 10 k or an eight k or half marathon, it's much more reliable to predict down to five k versus just like, oh, I'm just I've never done a marathon before.

反正我就随便假定自己处于三十二分钟配速的状态之类的。

I'm just gonna assume I'm in three twenty shape or whatever.

而且从科学角度来说，你的五公里配速和稳态最大配速，或者第一乳酸阈值配速之间，都有非常紧密的相关性。

And then also, like, scientifically, there are pretty tight relationships between your five k pace and, like, your steady state max pace or your first lactate threshold.

这样你就能更精准地匹配到咱们想要达到的那种生理反应状态。

So you get tighter correspondence to the kind of physiological responses we're trying to achieve.

所以我们的思路是，先从一个很容易确定的基准开始——也就是你的5公里配速。

So the idea is like, okay, we'll start out with something that we know we can estimate or just find out really easily, which is your five k pace.

先按这个配速训练一段时间，等你完成了一些长距离训练后，再回头看看，想想什么样的配速才真正适合马拉松。

Train for a while at that, and then once you've done some of these longer workouts, we can look at those and reflect and think, okay, what's realistic for a marathon pace here?

当然有一些参考指南，但更多还是要靠分析你的训练表现。

And there's some guidelines, but a lot of it is interrogating your training.

比如说，你连续跑了15公里，配速是5公里配速的85%，

Like, okay, well I did 15 k continuous at 85 to five k.

那这次跑得是不是特别轻松、控制得很好？

Was that super comfortable and controlled?

如果是的话，这个配速或许就可以作为你的马拉松配速。

Then maybe that can turn into your marathon pace.

还是说，最后几公里你完全是咬牙撑下来的？

Did it feel like you were hanging on at the end?

那可能83%、82%会更合适一些。

Like, well, maybe 83% is better, 82%.

另外我想强调的是，配速估算错了也没关系，反正可以随时调整。

And then the other thing that I like to emphasize is like, it's fine to be wrong with your pace estimate because you can just change it.

我经常看到的问题是，有人一上来就定目标：我要跑进四小时，要跑进三小时三十，要跑进三小时，甚至两小时四十五或两小时三十。

One of the problems that I very often see is people will decide, I wanna run under four hours, I wanna run under three thirty, I wanna run under three hours or two forty five or two thirty.

这些整点目标。

Those round numbers.

然后他们就直接算好，距离比赛还有十八周，现在就得按每公里四分十四点六秒的配速来练，精确到小数点后一位。

And they just, they're like, okay, it's eighteen weeks out and I am doing workouts at four fourteen point six per kilometer or whatever the exact goal time is.

但就像我之前说的，得看实际情况——就算你最终目标是跑进三小时、两小时三十或四小时，你现在很可能还没这个实力。

And then, there again, like like I said earlier about looking at kind of the real situation of where you're at, you may not be even if you are going to run under three or under two thirty or under four or whatever, you likely are not in shape to do that now.

因为如果你真有这水平，早就去跑了，对吧？

Because if you are, like, you would just go do it now.

对吧？

Right?

你之所以训练，就是为了慢慢达到那个状态，没错。

The whole point is you're trying to you're trying to get to a point where you can Yeah.

做点现在还做不到的事。

Do something in the future that you can't do now.

训练的本质就是如此。

That's what training is all about.

对。

Yep.

我非常支持每隔几周就调整一次训练计划。

So I'm a big proponent of revising your training estimate every couple weeks.

看看最近的训练效果怎么样。

Look at how the workouts have been going.

看看长期的发展趋势。

Look at the long term trajectory.

也回顾一下自己对训练感受的记录。

Look at your your subjective notes on how did it feel.

当时觉得有多难？

What was that difficulty?

是七分、八分，还是九分？

Was it a seven out of 10, an eight out of 10, a nine out of 10?

这跟你的实际能力相比怎么样？

And how does that compare to what you ought to be able to do?

然后你就可以调整、更新，慢慢来，时间久了自然就清楚了。

Then you can revise, update, and hopefully, you know, over time, you you know, okay.

三小时十分，三小时零五分，三小时零二分，三小时二分五十六秒。

Three ten, three zero five, three zero two, three hours, two fifty six.

你可以把配速预估调低一点。

You bump that pace estimate down.

现在只要是开始跑步的人，几乎都会用某种设备，比如苹果手表、佳明手表，或者其他任何运动手表。

And just in terms of, like, it just because runners now any runner that starts running will have some kind of device, like a a watch, whether it's an Apple Watch or a Garmin watch or whatever watch.

网上关于心率训练的信息多得是。

And they, there's a lot of information out there about heart rate training and all this stuff.

我觉得作为跑者，我们总想把决策权交给设备。

And I think like, as runners, we would love to outsource decision making to a device.

但话说回来，等你跑得够多了，就会明白，现在根本没有什么设备能真正替你做决策。

But, you know, once you get experienced enough, you realize that like there isn't any device out there right now that you can really outsource your decision making to.

所以，经过这些之后，你对心率有什么看法？

So my question is after all of that, what do you think about heart rate?

我知道很多人会说，主观感受嘛，肯定对应着某些心率区间，那为什么不直接把决策交给心率数据呢？你怎么看？

Because I know there's a lot of a lot of people will say, okay, well, in perceived effort, well, that must be like, like there must be heart rate zones for that and what do you think of outsourcing instead of perceived effort outsourcing it to some heart rate value?

我不喜欢把对运动强度的判断完全交给任何客观指标。

I'm not a fan of outsourcing perceiving your effort to any kind of objective metric.

我觉得，主观感受和客观数据之间，始终得保持一种对话关系。

Like, I think there needs to always needs to be a dialogue, but, like, between how you feel subjectively and some objective metric.

我更看重配速。

I like pace.

我明白有些人喜欢看心率。

I understand some people like heart rate.

心率的问题在于，它并不总能真实反映你身体内部的代谢负担。

Heart rate is challenging because it is not always reflective of the internal metabolic costs of your body.

如果我有魔法棒的话，我会直接看跑步时的绝对摄氧量，用它来作为判断代谢率的指标。

If I had a magic wand, would look at like, absolute VO2 when people are running and use that as my indicator if they're like metabolic, their metabolic rate.

心率的问题在于，我现在带很多跑者，他们住在德州或者阿肯色州那种夏天特别热的地方。

The problem with heart rate and I coach a lot of runners now who are, like, live in Texas or, like, live in live in Arkansas or where it's, like, really, really hot in the summer.

他们跑轻松跑的时候，

And they'll be on an easy run.

心率就会高得离谱。

Their heart rate is just, super high.

这并不是因为他们的代谢能量消耗特别高。

And that's not because their metabolic energy expenditure is super high.

而是因为他们的身体不仅要用心脏来循环血液输送氧气，还要用它来循环血液以散发热量。

It's because their body's using their heart not just to circulate blood for oxygen, but also to circulate blood for radiating heat away.

所以这里有个现象。

So there's this phenomenon.

大家可能听说过心率漂移。

People probably heard of heart rate drift.

从科学上讲，这叫心率的慢成分——在持续十到十五分钟的运动中，如果你在实验室里观察一个人的心率和耗氧量，会发现心率常常明显上升。

The more technical term scientifically is there's actually a slow, so it's called slow component of heart rate where over the course of like ten, fifteen minutes, If you look at if you're in a lab and you look at somebody's heart rate and somebody's oxygen consumption, the heart rate will be going up often quite a lot.

但耗氧量却基本保持不变。

The oxygen consumption will be staying the same.

所以对于长时间持续性运动，我觉得心率这个指标其实不太可靠，至少对我所指导的这类运动员和训练环境来说是这样。

So particularly for longer continuous efforts, I find the heart rate's not that informative, at least for the kind like, kinda athletes in the kind of settings that that I work with.

也许在另一个平行世界里，我带的是自行车或游泳运动员，那时候其他指标可能更合适，甚至可能用心率百分比来制定训练计划。

I think you prob there's probably some alternative universe where, like, maybe I coach some sport like cycling, where or like, I don't know, like swimming where, some other metric is is better or more informative, and maybe there's some universe where, like, I construct this in in percentages of heart rate.

但你必须格外小心，因为心率背后藏着很多陷阱。

But you just really gotta be careful because there's a lot of there's a lot of traps with heart rate.

我刚才提到了高温的影响，但还有一种心率慢成分，它和温度完全无关。

I mentioned the heat and one, there's also the slow component of heart rate that happens independently of heat.

另外，每个人的生理强度区间也不同，比如LT1和稳态最大强度对应的百分比心率，因人而异。

And then there's the fact that people's individual physiological domains of intensity, where their LT1 is, where their steady state max is, differ as a percentage of their heart rate, the maximum.

还有一个问题是你得知道自己的最大心率是多少，而且这个数值还会随时间变化。

Then there's the other issue of you need to know what your max heart rate is and it can change over time.

很让人困惑的是，当你体能变好之后，最大心率反而可能下降，有时甚至能降多达7%。

Very confusingly, as you get into better shape, your maximum heart rate can go down, sometimes up to like 7%.

如果你刚开始锻炼时最大心率是200，等你变得非常健康了，它可能会下降10到15次每分钟。

So if it was 200 when you were just getting into things, by the time you get really fit, your max heart rate might be down by like 10 or 15 beats a minute.

这差距可不小。

Which is a huge difference.

对。

Yes.

你的心率区间就完全不一样了。

And you're like zones are not the same at all.

没错。

Right.

没错。

Right.

没错。

Right.

所以实际生活中，我知道有些人听这期节目时，已经把自己的心率区间调整得很精准了。

So in practice, I I understand if people are listening to this and they've got their heart rate zones really dialed in.

他们去实验室做过测试，诸如此类的。

They went to a lab and got tested, blah blah blah.

这没问题。

That's fine.

我明白。

I understand.

我可以肯定地说，

I can guarantee you that

但大多数人并不是这样。

is not most people.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对吧？

Right?

他们总是说，我在网上看到的，说跑步要保持在最大心率的70%左右之类的。

They're like, oh, I heard on the Internet that I should be running 70% of heart rate max or whatever.

而且他们用的大多也是佳明设备自动算出来的那些心率数据。

And it's also, mostly their heart rate are they're getting the ones that like Garmin has calculated for them.

说实话，我现在对佳明的算法挺有意见的。几个月前我跑了个10公里，成绩大概40分钟出头。

And I don't know, I have a beef these days with Garmin calculations because I I ran a 10 k like a couple months ago, and my 10 k was, I don't know, forty minutes or forty one minutes.

可我一看手表，它预测我的10公里成绩居然要45分钟。所以我现在跟所有带的学员都这么说。

And I look at my watch and my predicted 10 ks time is like forty five minutes and so this is the story that I tell all of the people that I coach.

我说，别信你那破手表的数据了。我后来干脆把光学心率传感器关了，就为了省电——反正它也给不出什么有用的信息，多点续航比啥都强。

I'm like you know what like don't trust your garments garbage data and I've since even turned off the optical sensor to conserve battery power because I'm like I'd rather just have more battery power because at this point it's not really giving me anything useful so yeah

而且有时候，人们一看手表数据就自己吓自己。比如跑马拉松，跑了个三四公里，

and sometimes people also psych themselves out by like looking at like they get three or four k into the marathon.

一看心率，哎呀，怎么到155了？平时这个配速不都是152吗？

They look at their watch and they're like, oh gosh, like I'm at one fifty five and usually I'm at one fifty two at this pace.

然后就觉得，糟了，我状态不对，感觉特别差。

And like, oh no, I'm odd, but I feel terrible.

就像你说的，他们开始把感受交给设备上的数字来决定，而不是自己去体会身体的真实状态。

And like they they start like you said, they start outsourcing how they feel to the number on the device instead of just perceiving how they feel.

说到底，你跑马拉松可不是因为全程都保持在正确的心率区间就能拿奖牌的。

And then at the end of the day, look, you don't get a medal for running in the correct heart rate zone the whole time in your marathon.

奖牌是看谁跑得快。

You get medals for how fast you run.

这其实也是训练中从一般到专项的另一个体现。

And so this is another aspect of progression over time in training from general to specific.

在基础阶段，甚至在马拉松准备期，我们更看重的是努力程度，让配速自然发生。

It's like in general phase and to some extent in marathon supportive phase, we want to run the right effort and kind of let the pace be whatever it's gonna be.

如果天气特别热、风大，或者你特别累，本来计划每公里四分钟，结果你按四分钟的强度跑了，实际配速变成了四分零五或者四分零七，这完全没问题。

So if it's really hot or really windy or or you're just really tired and whatever, and you're supposed to be running, I don't know, four minutes per k, and you run the four minute per k effort and it ends up being like four zero five or four zero seven, that's fine.

但在最核心的马拉松专项训练中，那些关键课表，如果你目标是每公里四分十五秒，那就必须能跑出来，因为比赛时你真得靠这个速度。

But in the most most, marathon specific workouts, the big sessions, if you're trying to run four fifteen per k, like, you need to be able to hit that because that's what you need to be able to do in the marathon.

所以你得带着充沛的体力来完成训练。

So you wanna be fresh going into the session.

你得吃足了东西，状态要好。

You wanna be well fueled.

还得穿上你的顶级跑鞋。

You wanna be wearing your super shoes.

如果你觉得今天状态特别差，

And if you if you're like, I feel terrible today.

我心里大概有数了，

I kinda know what's going on.

那就干脆别硬撑，休息几天，等状态回来了再重新来，别一味地凭感觉跑。

You should just stop the workout and then take a few easy days and then do it again later as opposed to just running by effort the whole time.

毕竟说到底，你想跑三小时，就得保持每公里四分十五秒的速度。

Because at the end of the day, right, like, you wanna run three hours, you gotta run four fifteen per k.

想跑三小时三十分钟，那就得跑每公里五分钟，或者类似的速度。

You wanna run three thirty, you gotta run five minutes per k or or whatever.

对吧？

Right?

最终目标是不要靠心率来跑，而是靠配速来跑。

It's the the eventual goal is to not run a heart rate, but to run speed.

是的。

Yeah.

这话说得对。

That's a good point.

而且我想也是。

And I guess yeah.

我以前的教练总说，你得在那种配速下积累经验，比赛时才能跑得出来。

My previous coach used to always say, and you need experience at that at that speed in order to run it in a race.

所以我喜欢练速度。

So I like I like speed.

那你得把配速跑出来。

Well, you've gotta run the pace.

是的

Yeah.

最终衡量你是否完成马拉松，看的是成绩，不是心率。

Basically, you're not you're not going to get measured for finishing the marathon with the right heart rate.

你不可能因为心率保持在某个水平就拿到波士顿马拉松的参赛资格。

You're not going to get a Boston qualifier based on maintaining your heart rate at a certain level or whatever.

没错。

It's true.

要想发挥出最佳表现，赛前还得有个扎实的心理准备计划。

You need to, in order to optimize your results, you're gonna have to have a strong mental plan for race day as well.

这个有多重要？你有什么建议可以分享给听众吗？

How important is that and what are some tips you can give our listeners?

另外，你得跟大家说清楚，因为这点真的被严重忽视了。

Also what like just try and sell it to people because I think that this is very much overlooked.

对，马拉松这么长的比赛，对吧？

Yeah, I mean, marathon's a long race, right?

哪怕你是塞巴斯蒂安·新井，你也要跑上两个小时，对吧？

Like even if you're Sebastian Sawai, you're out there for two hours, right?

所以那段时间里，你得一直跟自己较劲，时间挺长的。

And so that's a long time to be in your own head.

所以我觉得，咱们还是把马拉松拆解开来想，这样更实际。

And so I think it's much more tractable to, okay, let's take the marathon.

咱们把它分成几段来看。

Let's break it into pieces.

就像你刚才提到的那个1公里间歇跑训练一样，当你跑到第八公里的时候，你不需要去想，哎呀，天哪。

And then kinda like you were saying with the the one k one k workout, you don't when you're on kilometer eight, you don't need to think about like, oh my gosh.

我还有36公里要跑呢。

I have 36 kilometers to go.

不如你就这么想，好吧。

Like, how about you just think, okay.

先搞定这10公里，你知道的，然后我有这个配速计划，还有这种心理上的应对策略。

Get the 10 k, you know, and and I've got this, like, this kind of pace plan and this, like, mental this, like, mental approach.

我只是想保持放松、顺畅，好好跑完前十公里，感觉还不错。

Like, I'm just trying to be, like, relaxed, and smooth here, and just get to 10 k feeling pretty good.

从十到二十公里，你可以换另一种心理暗示和配速目标。

Then 10 to 20 k, you have another, like, you know, another kind of, like, mental mantra and pace goal for that.

然后二十到三十公里，或者你怎么划分都行。

Then 20 to 30 k or however you you wanna break it up.

我一般喜欢把比赛分成开头几公里、中间段，还有到后面困难时的冲刺阶段，最后那一两公里。

Usually, I like breaking it into kinda, like, the opening miles, the middle k of the race, and then kind of the the the big push when things get difficult and then the last one or two k.

因为每个阶段你都需要不同的心理状态。

And because you kind of need to be in a different mental state.

如果你在十公里时想着‘硬撑过去’，这其实不太合适。

If you if your attitude at 10 k is like, I'm just gonna grind this out, that's not so great.

但如果你到了三十五公里还想着‘我要轻松高效、保持放松’，这也不太对。

Whereas if your your attitude at like 35 k is like, I'm just trying to be smooth and efficient and relaxed relaxed here.

毕竟三十五公里了，你知道的。

Like, that also may not work because it's you know, 35 k

比赛到后面特别难熬。

in race hard time.

是的。

Yeah.

那段时间真的特别难撑。

It's quite it's it's it's quite an out time.

跑到35公里时，肯定特别吃力。

It's always gonna be hard at 35 k.

我觉得心理能量就像体内的糖原储备一样，得好好规划怎么分配。

So you wanna I like thinking about your mental energy as kind of like a a reserve source similar to your glycogen where, you know, your carbs where it's like, okay.

我们要提前规划好，心理能量该怎么花。

We wanna, like, kind of plan out how we're gonna spend our mental energy here.

赛前要储备充足，平时训练也要练就长时间保持专注、高速奔跑的能力。

Make sure we go into the race, like, kinda well fueled up and, like, use our training to build up that ability to run long and fast and concentrate for a long time.

我有个可能有点争议的建议：有些长距离训练，最好一个人跑，别听音乐。这样能锻炼你连续专注一小时半、两小时、甚至两个半小时的能力——这可不是随便就能做到的。

One of the things, this is maybe also a controversial thing I recommend is for some of those long runs, I recommend doing them alone and without any music because it helps you build that mentality of an ability of I'm focusing for an hour and a half, two hours, two and a half hours, which is not like, that's not something you can just get out and do.

如果你这辈子从来没跑过超过15公里，现在突然要跑这么长，尤其是还想着要保持特定配速，那真的会很吃力。

If you've never run more than, you know, 15 k in your life and you go and you try to run for a long time at this especially if it's like I'm trying to hit a specific speed here.

对。

Mhmm.

从心理上来说，你会觉得特别难熬，这种耐力是需要慢慢练出来的。

It is really like, mentally, you will find that, like, very challenging, and that's an ability you need to build up.

所以我说的赛前计划，不光是配速和补给这些实际安排，还包括你的心理状态——整个42公里里，你打算怎么调整心态、应对比赛的每个阶段。

So, yeah, I I when I say a race plan, I both mean kind of the practical aspects of, like, pacing and fueling, but I also mean, like, what's my mentality and how how what's my kind of mental approach gonna look like for how this race unfolds over the whole 42 k.

明白。

Okay.

而且你专门写了一章，讲的就是配速这个问题。

And also, so you have a chapter just about that whole pacing situation.

很多马拉松跑者都喜欢前半程冲得快一点，觉得后半程会需要这些多出来的时间。

And you know, I think a lot of runners in the marathon, they like to bank time thinking that they're going to they're going to need it at the end.

这说法没错，后半程确实可能需要，但你其实建议的是，前半程稍微慢一点，比后半程稍慢一点就行。

Not that that's untrue, they might need it at the end, but you actually seem to go out and not by a big difference, but the first half is actually just a touch slower than the second half.

所谓‘一点点’，意思是你会慢慢提速，比如前六到八公里先热身，找到合适的节奏。

And by a touch, I mean, like, I think it was the first you build up to the right pace over, I don't know, maybe the first six kilometers or eight kilometers or something.

但也不是说差了一分钟每公里那种程度。

But it it, like, you're not we're not talking a difference of, you know, like, a minute per k or anything.

就只是差个几秒钟，但正因为前半程有一部分时间跑得慢，整体就稍微拖慢了。

We're just talking, like, a few seconds, but but, you know, it means that you're you're a little bit slower in the first half because you've spent, like a third of it running slower.

我觉得这特别难做到，因为大多数人根本想不通这个道理。

And this I think is really hard to do because most people, they can't wrap their head around it.

他们总觉得要提前攒时间。

It's like they want to bank the time.

可要是攒得太多，到三十五公里左右体力一崩，就全完了。

But then if you bank too much time, you can crash and burn at that 35 k mark when it starts to get hard.

那有没有人是靠攒时间也能跑好的？

So, so like, is there anybody for who banking time works?

如果真要攒时间，到底多少算合适，多少又过头了？

Or if you're gonna bank some time, like, how much is okay and how much is not okay?

比如，艾伦和我定了个随便的规矩：如果我们想跑三小时的马拉松，前半程就不能低于一分二十秒九十五。

Like, Alan and I just have this arbitrary number of if if we wanted a three hour marathon, we should not go under 01:20 nine:thirty.

也就是说，前半程比目标快个三十秒左右。

So like thirty seconds under the target for the first half.

但我都记不清这个数字是哪儿来的了。

But I don't even remember where we got that number.

就是随便定的。

It was just like

是的，我们的原则是，如果到一半的时候你已经跑进了一分二十九秒，那你就是在透支，一点余地都没留。

Yeah, our rule was if you get to halfway and you're under one twenty nine, you're programming because yourself to we have no margin.

一点犯错的空间都没有。

We have no margin for error.

没错。

Yeah.

说到配速策略，我觉得可以看看世界上顶尖跑者是怎么做的。

And I think, I mean, in terms of like, in terms of banking time, like, I would just suggest to people, like, take a look at what the best runners in the world are doing.

我跑马拉松突破两小时的时候，就是后半程比前半程快的节奏。

Like, when when saw I ran under two hours in the marathon, it was a negative split.

书里提到一个例子，美国跑者艾米莉·西森在芝加哥马拉松打破美国纪录时也是这样。

And in the book, there's an there's an example of, American runner, Emily Sisson, at the Chicago marathon when she set the American record.

同样是前30到35公里保持匀速，最后阶段加速冲线。

Same thing, like even splits through I think like 35 k or 30 k and then closing faster.

轻微的后半程加速，才是跑马拉松最理想的方式。

Slight negative splits are the optimal way to run the marathon.

我能理解，有些人想跑进三小时，看到半程用时一分三十一秒，心理上会觉得压力太大。

And I think I understand psychologically people where, like, if they're trying to run under three hours, if they see, you know, one thirty one at halfway, I understand that for some people, psychologically, that's just, like, too much.

我会试着劝他们，别慌，一分二十九、四十几、五十几秒的半程都还来得及。

And I'll try to talk them back to, like, you know, one twenty nine, 40 something, 50 something.

但说实话，我觉得对想跑进三小时的人来说，后半程跑九十三分半左右，或者八十九分半，可能最理想。

But I would honestly like, I think probably, like, you know, ninety thirty and then eighty nine thirty or something like that is probably the the optimal for second half split for for sub three.

甚至九十一分和九十一分整，或者八十一分整，也完全可行。

Maybe even ninety one and ninety one flat, 81 flat.

就像我刚才说的，我通常也会这样划分比赛：前六到八公里，慢慢把配速降到目标水平。

And and and like I said, really, this kinda maps on to how I like to break up the race too is, like, first six eight k, you just gradually work down to the target pace that you're looking for.

接下来二十到二十五公里，甚至一直到三十公里的中段，就保持这个配速稳定跑。

Then for a big chunk of twenty, twenty five k, even up to 30 k in the middle, you're you're maintaining that same pace.

最后十公里左右，再加速冲刺，这样几乎总能弥补前面的渐进起步，甚至还能多跑出一点优势。

And then in the last 10 k or so of the marathon, you push the pace faster, and and then you you almost always end up able to to make up for and then and then some that progressive start.

在某些情况下，我也觉得匀速起步是有道理的。

There are some people in some situations where I think an even paced start makes sense.

尤其是在大型美欧赛事里，男子大概在2小时40分以内，女子在2小时55分以内，这种情况比较常见。

It it see at least at, like, big American and European races, it seems to be maybe, like, under two forty for men and under maybe two fifty five for women roughly.

这主要适用于你参加的赛事规模，当然，如果你跑得慢一点，小比赛里也可以参考这个策略。

And that's just more of like, when you're in and maybe this you can apply this for slower times if you're in a smaller race.

原因很简单，比如你目标是跑2小时40分的男子选手，跑完前几公里后，身边的人就会越来越少。

Because, basically, like, where that's coming from is if you're a man trying to run two forty, for example, often, it'll get pretty sparse after the first couple kilometers.

除非像瓦伦西亚这样的大赛，否则根本没几个人跟你一起跑。

Like, there just aren't that many people unless you're at, like, Valencia or something.

人少到一定程度，跟那些目标配速跟你一样的人一起跑，确实比在25公里或30公里处才去追他们要来得轻松，毕竟后者才是常规做法。

It it gets sparse enough that, like, it can help to just be with the people who are trying to run the speed you're trying to run versus, like, catching them at, you know, 25 k or 30 k, which is what you would do normally.

所以确实存在某些特殊情况。

So there are some situations.

还有种情况，就是大家常遇到的马拉松配速员。比如你是三小时完赛组的，如果配速员说别担心，我们要负配速跑，结果前半程91分钟就冲过去了，那肯定有人要骂街。

Another one that that people commonly encounter at all all gold marathon times is pace groups where if your three hour pace group is like, don't worry, guys, going to negative split this and you come through in ninety one minutes, people are going be mad.

毕竟大家都想按既定目标完赛。

They want to hit that.

所以如果你加入了配速员带领的集团，他们几乎肯定会试图匀速跑。

So if you're in a pace group, almost always, they will be trying to run.

匀速。

Evenly.

匀速。

Evenly.

但如果由我来安排，而且大家心理上没有顾虑的话，我会让他们采用稍微渐进式的起跑策略。

But if I had it my way and people didn't have any mental hang ups about it, I would get them to do a slightly progressive start.

所以，假设你打算在马拉松里保持每公里四分四十四秒的配速。

So so say you're trying to run four hour four, four minutes per k in the marathon.

我会建议你先从每公里四分十二秒到四分十五秒起步，然后在前半程，每公里慢慢快个三到五秒，直到你的配速降到每公里四分四十四秒。

I would say, let's open up four twelve, four fifteen, and then just lop three to five seconds per k off for the first, you know, however long until you get to down to four k four minutes per k.

因为很多时候，大家心里会有点没底，不确定自己到底行不行。

Because the thing is oftentimes you have a little bit of an uncertainty level around, okay.

比如，我到底能不能在马拉松里跑出每公里三分五十八秒，或者总成绩是四小时整、四小时零二分？

Can I run three fifty eight per k for the marathon or four hour or four or four flat or four zero two?

比如说，这种从稍快开始然后逐渐降速的策略，能让你在比赛当天真正摸清自己的状态，对吧？

Like, what's exactly the so that buff that starting and then working down allows you to re on race day, really suss out like, okay.

看看自己在哪个强度下感觉最舒服，觉得状态正好，然后接下来就保持这个节奏跑下去。

When am I at that intensity that feels like it's just the right, like, this feels good and then I'm just gonna like maintain that going forwards.

这还能给你多一层保障。因为如果你对自己的配速范围不太确定，比如每公里在4分10秒到4分15秒之间波动，

And it buys you a little bit of insurance because if you're like, I'm gonna run, you know, my uncertainty range is like, let's say, $4.10 to $4.15 per k.

我很有信心能在这个区间里跑出来。

I'm pretty sure I can run something in there.

但如果你一上来就直接以每公里四分十秒的速度跑，不管怎样都不调整的话。

But if you're like, I'm just gonna start running four ten from the start no matter what.

如果这个速度太快了，就像你刚才说的，你等于提前刷爆了信用卡，最后利息全得还回来。

If that was too fast, well, now you've you've, like you said, you've sort of spent on you spent on the credit card, and the the, interest is gonna come due at the end.

相反，如果你从每公里四分二十五秒或四分三十秒开始，慢慢提速，最后降到四分十五秒，这时候你就会觉得，嗯，今天这个节奏刚刚好，就保持住，最后六到八公里再稍微加速冲一冲。

Whereas if you'd started at $4.25 or $4.30 and worked down and you get to $4.15, you're like, oh, actually, this I think this is about right for today, and you maintain that and then close out a little faster in the last six or eight k.

这样下来，整场马拉松的平均配速可能就落在四分十三秒、四分十二秒、四分十三秒或者四分十四秒左右。

Then maybe you end up averaging $4.13 or four twelve or four thirteen or four fourteen for the whole marathon.

从结构上来说，这种方式明显更靠谱、更合理。

It's just a much that's structurally, that just seems to be a much better way to go about doing it.

我觉得我还看过或听过一种说法，就是跑马拉松的时候，除非像我第一次跑马拉松那样完全没教练指导，否则你不会像跑五公里那样热身四十五分钟。

I think I also read or heard or learned somewhere that because when you go into the marathon, like you're, except if you're me for my first marathon when I had no coach, you don't warm up like for a five ks, where you're like warming up for forty five minutes.

所以你出发时身体其实还没完全热开。

So you're not really warmed up yet.

如果你目标是冲比较快的成绩，那速度远高于你平时的轻松跑配速。

And if you're going for those aggressive times, like, you know, they're quite a bit faster than what your easy run pace is.