一步向前，由吉恩·约亨创作

说不准，啥都能试试看。

Don't know, you can dabble in everything.

我试过打高尔夫。

I've tried golf.

我也玩过匹克球，试过不少东西，但最后总还是回到跑步上，虽然我也参加铁人三项、骑车。

I've tried pickleball, I've tried but I, you know, I always come back to running, even though, you know, I do the triathlons and my cycle.

这才是真正的我。

That's who I am.

这在我眼里也是个很重要的道理，找到你自己该成为的样子，找到属于你的那群人。

And that's a good lesson in my book, of course, too, but, you know, become who you're meant to be and find your tribe, find your people.

你该怎么向听众描述这种感觉呢？

How do you describe it to listeners?

你想想，当年那个胖乎乎的家伙，看着那些不可能完成的运动员，不是突然之间，而是经过一段时间，自己竟然站到了当年只敢在电视上看看、甚至都不想点开的比赛现场。

You know, being that overweight guy watching these Impossible athletes suddenly not suddenly, but after a period of time finding yourself at the event that you could have only dreamed of watching on TV and even then you probably wouldn't have bothered to tune in.

你该怎么跟别人说这种经历？

How do you describe that to others?

我先说说铁人三项吧，第一次看那些选手从我身边经过时，我既着迷又为自己的状态感到难过，真的特别受触动。

Well, I'll go first to the triathlon, first, really a triathlon, when I watched those people go by and I was like, you know, again, both mesmerized, mournful of my state, you know, I was very, you know, humbled, really.

大概一两年后，我报名参加了‘尝试铁人’项目。

About maybe a year or two later, I actually, I entered the try a tri level.

我骑的是一辆老旧的混合山地车，破得不行。

And I had an old clunker, like, hybrid mountain bike that I rode.

骑车那段，基本所有人都从我身边超过了。

And I got passed pretty much by everybody on the bike.

但我毕竟参加了比赛，对吧？

But I was in the race, you know?

我也知道得换辆好点的车，这成了我前进的动力。

But I also knew I gotta a better bike, you know, so I had that motivation.

说实话，要让自己站上起跑线，真得用上全部的勇气和力气。

But I actually, you know, I mean, it took every ounce of courage and effort to get myself into that race.

纽约马拉松，那是我参加的第三届，那段经历太棒了。

The New York City Marathon, you know, that third marathon ever of mine, that was an incredible experience.

你知道的，如果你参加过那个活动，前一天会有联合国举办的自由或友谊跑，你能遇到来自世界各地的人。

You know, if you've been involved in that, they had the United Nations, the Freedom or Friendship Run the day before, and you meet people from all over the world.

然后你就在那儿跑，你知道吧，那二十六英里让人浑身起鸡皮疙瘩，因为人群挤得水泄不通，大概有十到二十层厚，从五十九街大桥涌过来。对于你们这些跑者来说，前面还是一片寂静，但当你转过下坡弯道时……

You And, know, and then just being in that and running, you know, that was another one, twenty six miles of goosebumps, you know, because if the crowds are, you know, ten, twenty people thick coming off that, you know, 59th Street Bridge, for those of you that are running, it's dead quiet, and you come around that turn on the downhill ramp.

顺着山坡冲下去，进入

Go down the hill into

一个像蜂窝一样混乱喧闹的地方，你知道吧，对吧？

Into a beehive, Mayhem, you know, and it's like, know, right?

说实话，谁听了这种经历不会觉得特别振奋呢？

And I mean, who doesn't get like supercharged from that?

然后你跑遍五个区，最后完赛，诸如此类。

And then you run all five boroughs and you finish, etcetera.

这真的非常有历史意义。

I mean, it's so historic.

而且你知道，比赛结束后大家互相击掌庆祝，气氛特别棒。

What a, you know, and again, everybody's high fiving and then the post race.

所有这些氛围加在一起，简直太棒了。

So just all of that spirit of it is incredible.

艾伦，你提的那个问题，其实是我最钟爱的。

Alan, your question, which was my favorite?

这110个都是我最喜欢的。

All 110 are my favorite.

对了，你有没有兴趣聊聊‘为蟾蜍奔跑’这件事？

Did you wanna talk about run for the toad by the way?

我们可以聊这个，但你刚提到这儿，有人经常问我们：你们最喜欢的跑步书籍是哪一本？

We can do that, but just while you trigger me there, people ask us sometimes, what's your favorite running book?

我们在播客里已经介绍过120本书了，我的回答是，这就像问你‘你最喜欢哪个孩子’一样。

We've done 120 books on the podcast and what I say to them is actually, it's a bit like asking you, who's your favorite child?

如果你有好几个孩子，每个孩子都有各自可爱的地方，每个都是独一无二的。

You know, if you have a number of children, I'm a favorite, everyone is a favorite in a different way.

是的。

Yeah.

一百一十场。

A 110.

说实话，每一场我都喜欢，没有哪一场让我觉得不好。

I I and, you know, there's honestly there's there's not one that I didn't like.

你懂的。

You know?

当然，有时候在当时，确实有那么几场我并不太喜欢。

I mean, I you know, in the moment, a few of them I did.

比如跑到三十四公里的时候，可能觉得挺煎熬，但赛后回想起来，每一场都有它独特的氛围——赛前的期待、比赛中的体验、完赛后的感受，还有路线和地形，都不一样。

Maybe most of them I didn't like in the moment when you're at, you know, kilometer, you know, 34, but, you know, finishing and and, you know, everyone has a different culture maybe vibe, the pre race, the you know, the race itself, the post, and the terrain.

你还能看到不同的城市和小镇。

You get to see a city or town.

还能认识来自世界各地的人。

You meet people from all over the world.

这些赛事，每一场都特别棒。

It's just a great, great event, all of them.

有时候，对像你这样记忆力特别好的人来说，成功的结果、跑步的时间，甚至你具体是怎么跑、怎么冲线的，反而会盖过整个经历本身。

Sometimes I find the experience, for someone who's as as has greatest memory as you, you may you might even see this that, you know, you you you find that, the success of it or or the time you ran, literally, how you ran, how you finish overrides sometimes the experience.

它可能不是你最喜爱的一场，但绝对是印象最深刻的一场。

And it might not turn to your favorite, but it might be one of the most memorable ones.

你跑过那么多次，尤其是第一次突破三小时的时候，那种感觉一辈子都忘不了。

And as someone who's, you know, run certain times and, you know, hitting your first sub three, you never forget that.

作为读过你书的人，我特别能体会这一点——你不仅跑得出色，写得也特别棒。

And as a reader of your book, I was able to connect with that because, you know, not only have you run so well, but you write so well.

我记得读到一个比赛故事，直到看到成绩时才恍然大悟。

I remember reading a race story, and then we get to the time.

三小时零五十三秒，差一点点就破三了。

It's like, oh, three hours and fifty three seconds.

太接近了。

So close.

再翻几页，又是一次几乎破三，然后故事继续往前走。

And then few pages later, we get almost sub three, and then we just move forward.

我记得第一次看到你跑进三小时以内的那场比赛。

And and I remember seeing your first one where you hit sub three.

不只是跑进三小时，是两小时四十九分，抱歉，是两小时五十九分四十九秒。

Not just sub three, you know, two forty nine sorry, two fifty nine forty nine.

我们说的是，

We're talking

嘿。

Hey.

那有什么问题吗？

What's wrong with that?

我这可能是在暗指谁呢。

I might be throwing shade at someone over here.

这速度真快。

That's a quick one.

干得漂亮，艾伦。

Good job, Alan.

但你跑出了258的成绩。

But you hit two fifth 258.

是的。

Yeah.

在突破三小时大关之前，你好像已经跑过好几场低于三小时一分的马拉松了。

And it seems like you ran several marathons under three r one before hitting sub three.

也许那不是你最钟爱的比赛，但突破三小时之前，那种感觉是怎样的？

Now maybe that might not be your favorite race, but what was the experience before hitting sub three like?

是让人沮丧吗？

Was it frustrating?

还是让人兴奋？

Was it exhilarating?

是不是一直把目标往前挪，直到你终于够到它？

Did it just keep pushing the carrot further until you reached for it?

那段经历对你来说是什么感觉？我们特别想听听。

How'd that feel for a lot of that we wanna hear about?

你知道的。

You know?

并不是每个人都能跑到那个水平，或者有那个能力。

And not everybody gets to run at that level or can run at that level.

所以我特别感恩，毕竟我从来没人觉得我是跑步的人，结果四十多岁的时候，突然之间就有了这种能力，要是按年龄组分级，成绩肯定还能快不少。

So, you know, I was very humbled that I was you know, I had that ability, again, not being identified ever as a runner, and all of a sudden and was in my 40s, you know, I you know, so age grading, you know, it would have been a lot faster.

不过，我在2005年3月之前，一共跑了大约三十场马拉松。

However, you know, I ran, I think the number is 30 marathons between two fifty six and 03/2005.

所以那时候我跑了很多场，比如2001年3月那场，就刚好卡在那儿。

So I had a lot of marathons, like Oh, Oh, right at 03/2001.

你知道的。

You know?

我连续两年跑了费城马拉松，成绩都是三小时二十三秒。

I ran the I ran the Philadelphia Marathon two years in a row, three hours and twenty three seconds.

第二年，我又跑了一次，三小时二十四秒。

The next year, I ran it three hours and twenty four seconds.

差一秒都没跑进三小时。

Literally a second apart and didn't break three hours.

真是的，我拼了全力，你知道的。

Like, you know, like, oh my, you know, I mean, I ran my heart out.

我每次都全力以赴，但从不沮丧，因为总还有下一场比赛，对吧？

I left, I leave it all out You know, but I never ever was like bummed about it or dejected, know, there's always the next one, right?

我有个特别棒的教练，迪恩·赫伯特。

And I had a really good coach, Dean Hebert.

他出现在我的书里。

He's in my book.

几个月前，我在亚利桑那见过迪恩一面。

And I got to see Dean a few months ago in Arizona.

他基本已经退休了。

He's mostly retired.

他以前带亚利桑那州立大学的队。

He coached ASU.

他是个特别出色的高中田径教练。

He's just a phenomenal high school coach and track coach, actually.

我冬天去亚利桑那训练的时候跟他一起练田径，那里的人都跑短跑，他老问我：你干嘛非得跑马拉松？

And I was training with him in the winter when I would go to Arizona, and track And they were all track runners, and he was always like, Why are you running those marathons?

你直接跑400米或者800米不就好了？

Why don't you just stick to the 400 or the 800?

你知道的。

You know?

我就说：不，我就想跑马拉松。

And I'm like, No, I want to run a marathon.

他特别懂心理，是个顶尖的心理教练。

And he's a really good psycho psychological you know, psychological coach.

他特别能拿捏你的想法。

He really gets in your head.

他一直鼓励我，告诉我我能行，我觉得这特别关键。

So he was, you know, kinda coaching me, you know, you know, that I could do it, you know, and I think that was part of it.

不是说，我还有另一位教练，你知道吧，你想跑得快，就得跟跑得快的人一起练。

Not you know, had another I had another coach, you know, you you know, if you wanna run fast, you have to run with fast people.

对吧？

Right?

这道理很明白，你说是不是？

You know, like, that makes sense, you know?

这里面有很多智慧，但身体也有极限，这是谁都逃不掉的。

So there's a lot of wisdom, but there's also your physical you know, there's a there's always a limit.

每个人的身体都有一道看不见的天花板，限制着你能达到的极限。

It's a glass ceiling for all of us of what we can physically do.

所以也许三小时是个目标，但我好多次都只差一点点。

So maybe, you know, the three hour, but I was so close so many times.

第一次跑的时候，我有个朋友陪跑，叫弗兰克，到一半的时候，我跑了超过一百二十五分钟。

And that first one, had I a friend who was pacing with me, Frank, and at the halfway, I was a little over 125.

我当时是按两小时五十分钟的配速在跑，但我心里清楚，得留点余地，时间上也得留点缓冲。

And I was kind of on a two fifty pace, but I knew I I'd want to have some money in the bank and time in the bank.

所以我们跑完一半，他就说：我不行了，退出了。

So we got through the half, and he's like, I'm done, I'm out.

我当时感觉还不错。

And I felt good.

我心里想：哇，这感觉真不一样。

And I'm like, Woah, this is different.

我在这儿跑得挺轻松的，你知道吧？

I'm feeling good here, you know?

我记得很清楚，一步一步，全程都感觉特别好，就是为了那2.58美元。

And so I remember that, you know, step by step, and how good I felt all the way through and, you know, for the $2.58.

我每次出发都保持在两小时五十到两小时五十五分的配速。

I always went out at around a two fifty, two fifty five pace.

我从来没突破过两小时五十五分，但几年后，我那些跑步的朋友都搬去加州了，他们的速度都比我慢。

I never broke two fifty five, but oh, and then a few years later, all my friends went out to California, my running guys, and they were all like slower.

我说的是比我慢。

I say slower than me.

他们都在三小时左右，跑出了二分五十八秒的成绩。

They were all around three hours, two fifty eight.

他们都去了加州。

They all go to California.

他们很快就去了加州。

They go to California soon.

他们一个个都刷新了个人最好成绩，二分五十、二分五十二，可我没去。

They all have PBs, two fiftys, two fifty twos, and I didn't go.

他们比赛时有顺风，懂行的人都知道那场赛事。

And it was they had a tailwind, and anybody knows that race.

那是全球最快的马拉松之一，你知道的。

It's one of the fastest, you know, marathons.

所以我跟朋友弗兰克总开玩笑，他比我PB成绩更好。

And so we have a joke with my buddy Frank because he's got a faster PB time than I do.

不过呢，他铁人三项比我在行，可我的铁人三项成绩又比他快。

Although, he's a better triathlon triathlete than I am, and I have a faster triathlon time than he does.

所以我们俩总互相调侃对方。

So we we rub it in our each other's noses.

我太喜欢这样了。

I love it.

我要特别感谢弗兰克和教练迪恩。读你的书时，我经常想说声感谢，因为你的故事里总是交织着身边人的身影。

Shout out to Frank and shout out to coach Dean because I find as a reader in your book, I I say shout out because we literally have stories of your running experiences intertwined with people.

这些人对你来说都很重要，不管是教练迪恩、弗兰克，还是肯，他们有时会加入你，陪你从一次经历走向下一次。

And these people are close to you, whether it's coach Dean, Frank, Ken, just amazing people sometimes hopping on board or carrying you from one exploit to another or just one experience to another.

你提到过好几次，跑步其实是一种集体的体验。

And you talk about it a few times, you know, being part of a collective in running.

你能再多讲讲这个吗？

Can you tell us more about that?

你是什么时候意识到，在跑步圈子里，这种集体支持如此重要？现在回头看看，你对它有什么新的感受？

When did you figure out that being in a collective in running circles is such a great factor, and what do you think about it today looking back?

是的，当然。

Yeah, absolutely.

疫情前，跑步空间简直太棒了。

So the running room was fantastic, you know, pre COVID.

我觉得疫情之后，他们停了很多康复课程。

They did stop a lot of their clinic programs, I believe, since COVID.

但我还是报了那个马拉松项目。

But I signed up for that Marathon.

他们确实办马拉松。

They have a Marathon.

那些人本来根本不会跑步。

They actually had to learn to run.

他们还办五公里和十公里的活动。

They had a five ks, 10 ks.

那些课程我也去教过。

I taught those clinics as well.

所以我直接就投入进去，参加了马拉松训练营。

And so I I went right into the fire and joined the Marathon Clinic.

我记得当时坐在我们当地跑步中心的地下室里，大概有一打跑者。

And I remember sitting in the basement of our local running room, about a dozen runners.

我们彼此都不认识，每个人都挺害怕的，害怕自己到底签了什么承诺。

We didn't know each other, and we're all scared, you know, scared of what we signed up for.

说实话，我现在至少还和其中十个人保持着密切联系，就是那群‘不靠谱的十二人’里头的。

And honestly, like, I'm probably still friends, close friends with at least 10 of them that I keep in touch with out of that, you know, dirty dozen.

训练过程中有几个人因为受伤退出了。

We lost a couple along the training program because they got injured.

我们不一定都是那种特别强势的人，但大家互相鼓励，就这么一路坚持下来了。

And so, you know, it wasn't that we were type A's altogether, but collectively, we all encourage each other, you know, we just, you know, accomplished.

我们一起完成了人生第一个马拉松，之后也一直保持着联系。

We all finished our first marathon together, and we stayed in touch.

好多人我后来好多年都一起跑步。

A lot of them I ran with for many years.

再后来，我又认识了其他一些人。

And then I met other people along the way.

这项运动特别棒的一点是，我认识弗兰克，他其实是奥运级别的越野滑雪运动员。

One of the great things about this sport, I'll talk about Frank, he's actually an Olympic level cross country skier.

我知道奥运选手，比如我们的加拿大竞走冠军瑞秋，我认识她，也认识她父母和拉巴利斯。

I know Olympic I know our Canadian race walk champion, Rachel, and I know her parents and Labalys.

我还见过她丈夫。

And, you know, I met her husband.

他叫U。

He's U.

S。

S.

竞走冠军。

Race walk champion.

那些去过奥运会的人，出身平凡，也没被当成专业运动员，但我跟他们混在一起。

These people that have been to the Olympics and people, and having a humble background and not having been identified as an athlete, I hang out with athletes.

我还是觉得自己不算真正的运动员，不过算是耳濡目染，也算个运动员吧。

Still don't feel like I'm a real athlete, but I'm an athlete by osmosis, I guess.

你就是个运动员，没错。

There you are an athlete, yeah.

每个人都是运动员，而且每个人大概都接近了自己能力的极限。

Everybody's an athlete and everybody's probably quite near the pointy end of what they can achieve for themselves.

让我转到生活中的感悟吧，我觉得这些是这本书里很重要的部分。

Let me kick you over to the, life lessons, which I think are an important part of, the book.

你有收集这些生活感悟吗？

Did you collect the life lessons?

书里最后面把它们都列出来了。

In the book they're all listed at the end.

你在跑步的过程中，有把它们一一记下来吗？

Did you collect them as you went through your running experience?

你有没有专门记一本笔记，把它们都写下来？

Did you sort of keep a book and note them things?

你知道，其实更多是

You know, was was more

写书的时候还咒过你。

cursed you while you were writing the book.

是的。

Yeah.

那些教训其实是慢慢自然形成的，因为随着我跑得越来越久，经历也越来越丰富，那时候我还在企业里做人才管理，担任北美一家食品公司的人才总监。

It more just kind of morphed into the lessons, you know, because as I, you know, the more that I became more of a seasoned runner and had all these experiences, and I was in corporate training, was in talent, director of talent management for a food company for North America.

我经常给高层管理者做培训。

I had a high level training, working with leaders training.

我培训过公司的总裁。

I was training company presidents.

我做了很多关于领导力和辅导的工作，但都是在商业领域，不是跑步方面。

There was a lot of, you know, a lot of leadership and coaching that I did for business, but not running.

所以这两者之间是有联系的。

So there was a correlation.

一开始我是打算写一本商业书的，实际上我下一本书就叫《马拉松心态：给领导者与创业者》，现在正在写，里面讲的是给领导者的那些人生教训。

And so originally, I was going to write a business book, and I'm actually, my next book will be the Marathon Mindset for Leaders and Entrepreneurs, and I'm working on, which are the life lessons for leaders.

但这一切其实都有相通之处，你懂的。

But there's just a parallel, you know, to everything that we learn.

生活中并不是处处都充满教训和收获。

You know, life isn't always full of learning experiences and lessons.

所以那时候我并没有说，‘这是第15条教训’。

So I didn't have, you know, this is lesson 15 at the time.

后来我才把这些归类整理出来，因为当时我一直在做最后的修改，实在不想在第22页突然弹出一个框，说：

And then I did, I was able to find the buckets because, I had to put them at the back of the book because I was doing so many final edits and I didn't really wanna I thought, well, do I put a pop up box on page 22 for this?

‘这里有个生活道理，停下来想想吧。’

Here's a life lesson, and then kind of stop the reading so you can mull over the life lesson.

我想了想，算了。

I thought, no, you know what?

还是把它们放在书后面吧，毕竟整本书的节奏是自然流淌的，这样读起来更顺。

I think I'll put them at the back and and you know, because the book is just free flowing, and it just seemed to flow better that way.

但这些道理都在那儿，我们做的每一件事，只要是在考验能力，就一定会带来收获。

But the lessons are there and all of us, I mean, anything that we do that's a test of our abilities teaches us something.

我猜我得问你一个问题，就是你最喜欢哪个孩子？

I guess I'm going to ask you the question about, which children are your favorites.

你有没有觉得特别重要、特别有力的人生经验，或者特别想分享的？

Do you any life lessons that you think are particularly good ones or strong or that you know, you wanna

我们想知道，你会推荐哪些人生经验给大学生？

Which life lessons would you send to college is what we're asking.

对。

Yes.

你知道吧，

Well, you know,

我那些藏在俱乐部里的经验是哪些？

I did my Which ones are you hiding in the club?

有客人来的时候，你会不会出来？

Do you get out when company comes?

我开始跑步还有另一个原因，那时候我正在读MBA，同时还要全职上班，晚上还得赶作业和课程，真的特别耗精力，所以我需要更多体力。

That was the other reason I one of the other reasons I did start to run as well was because I was doing an MBA program, at the time as well, and and I needed a lot of energy because I worked worked full time, and then I had to work in the evenings on my MBA and my program, my my classwork, and I needed energy.

跑步对健康的好处就是，你真的会感觉更好。

So the health aspect of running, you actually feel better.

跑完之后反而更有劲，最难的就是迈出第一步。

You get more energy by running after you run, and the hardest part is to get out there.

但谁没经历过那种状态呢？觉得浑身没劲，今天真不想跑。

But after who hasn't gone for you know, felt lousy, oh, don't wanna run today.

可只要你出去跑一趟，回来之后，往往会发现这是特别棒的一天，因为你重新充满了能量。

And you go for a run, you come back, and, you you know, you have one of the best days ever, right, because you got that recharge or reenergized.

所以这很重要，不仅对心理有帮助，对耐力和体力也明显有提升。

So that was a big part of it is it it actually not only helps mentally, but obviously with your stamina and your physical strength as well.

要说经验，就是深挖潜力，坚持下去。

Know, so, you know, and again, know, the lessons, dig deep and, you know, just persevere.

去了解自己到底能走到哪一步，别等了。

Do, you know, find out who you what you're capable of, and don't wait.

前几天我还在听另一个播客，也是关于艾伦的。

I was listening to another podcast, Alan, as well, last few days.

你知道吗，有一期播客讲的是别总等着，要主动出击，因为谁也不知道自己还有多少时间，对吧？

And, you know, one of the it was just like, it was a philosophy one about, you know, not waiting, like, you know, take the initiative now because, you know, how many you know, we don't know what our timeline is, right?

我不想变成那种人，临到头了才后悔，早知道就该怎么做、本可以怎么做。

And and I don't wanna be one of those people, you know, my my, you know, my last days coulda, woulda, shoulda.

我会尽量把每一天都过得充实，不留遗憾。

You know, I I I squeeze everything I can out of life.

我真的很喜欢这一点，因为追求自己喜欢的事是一回事，

I genuinely like that because it it's it's one thing to chase what you like to do.

但真正决定成败的，是持续不断，甚至可以说是成功最关键的部分。

It's one thing to achieve, but consistency is truly the the part of the winning formula, if not the main part of the winning formula.

这其实就是游戏的要义。

It's, I think, the name of the game.

你曾经一边做管理、读MBA，一边出差奔波，同时还是个顾家的好父亲，带孩子，却依然坚持跑完每一段路程。

And at at one point, you were in a management job studying in an MBA program, traveling for work, still a devoted family man, raising kids, and you still continue to log the miles.

而你做到了。

And you did it.

心理上，我一直都在。

Mentally, was there.

你有没有什么实际的建议，可以给那些还没做到持续坚持的人，让他们试着去做？

Do you have any practical, any advice for consistency throughout that that someone who maybe isn't achieving that level of consistency could just try?

任何你可以分享给听众的建议都行。

Anything you could give out to anyone listening.

好问题。

Well, good question.

说实话，我不是那种早起型的人。

You know, I'm not really a great morning person.

不过早上做分析类工作我状态特别好，所以我通常把主要的分析任务都安排在上午。

I'm really good morning for analytical work, so I will do most of my analytical, you know, work in the morning.

我很清楚自己的节奏。

I know that about myself.

至于跑步，我更喜欢在下午或傍晚，尤其是周末的时候。

I prefer an afternoon or evening, early evening run for that weekend.

我会早点起床去跑步。

I'll get up and run earlier.

所以我觉得，了解自己很重要，你是晨型人还是晚型人，我知道有人早上五点半就去健身房了。

But so I think, you know, knowing yourself, whether you're a morning person or if you're better you know, I know people that are at the gym at 05:30 in the morning.

真让人佩服，他们能做到。

It's like, wow, you know, and they can do that.

也有其他人晚上九点才去健身，但他们一直在坚持。

I know other people that go to the gym at 09:00 at night, but they're doing it.

其实我们每个人都有时间。

And we all have time.

我从来不开电视。

Like, you know, I never had the TV on.

就放点音乐当背景。

Listen to music in the background.

我在做点事，但都是实实在在的。

You know, I'm doing something, but very real.

我现在正看到《风骚律师》第六季。

It takes me I'm in season six of Better Call Saul.

我记得我大概是四年前开始看的。

I think I started it four years ago.

你根本看不下去。

You couldn't watch.

坚持不下来。

Stay with you.

是啊，我都是挤出十五分钟看一集，你知道的。

Yeah, watched them in fifteen minute increments, you know?

所以我现在才看到第六季的第二集。

So I'm on episode two of season six.

我就是没法一口气追完。

So I just can't binge watch.

这根本不是我的风格，对吧？

That's just not in my DNA, right?

而且呢，如果你就是那种能一口气追完剧的人，看完就关掉，对吧？

And, you know, but if you are that type of person that, you know, can binge watch, you know, turn it off, you know?

不如把这段时间用在更有意义、更有利于健康的事情上。

Take that time and do something a little more productive and and for your health as well.

我觉得，比起一口气追剧，把我们有限的时间用在别的地方更值得，当然这只是我个人的看法。

And and, you know, I think that's a better use of our short time that we have than binge watching, but that's my myself.

我觉得你说起去火星、登月，完成那些你以前觉得根本不可能的事时，

I find that, you know, you talk about going to Mars, going to going to the moon, achieving things that you didn't think you could achieve.

然后呢，我要引用一下《彼得伯勒先驱报》上你的一段话。

And then, you know, I'm gonna quote you from the Peterborough Examiner.

你说：‘我并不把自己当成超级运动员。’

You say, I don't identify myself as a super athlete.

但要是你不在这儿，我跟别人提起你，我会说：Gene 远远不止是个普通人。

I'm just an average I personally if I were to speak of you without you being in the room, I would say, Gene is far more than an average person.

我觉得，这才叫真正的超级运动员。

I think that is a super athlete.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这些话都是从你心里说出来的。

That that's coming out of you.

你一路走来，经历这么多，还写下来，一步一个脚印地达成目标，真的让我特别受鼓舞。

And I find it truly inspiring for someone to to go through all the steps you have, to to write about it, and and to just achieve it step by step.

像这样的事，我们通常都把它看作是成就。

And and so my question for that is, you know, things like that, we see it as achievements.

但你对运动这项事业的专注，我记得在你书的开头，你就提到过如何在心里模拟比赛路线。

But then your dedication to your craft as an athlete, you I remember in early on in your book, you'll talk about visualizing your race course.

你的专注程度高到会在展会上主动去跟其他运动员交流。

You're dedicated to level where you'll reach out to fellow athletes at the expo.

你会向观众打听各种实用的小贴士。

You're ask you'll ask crowd for nuggets of information.

你始终保持好奇，愿意不断学习新东西。

You're always remaining curious, and you're always open to learning more.

你甚至会开车或步行去实地走一遍赛道。

You even drive or walk the course.

确实如此。

Things that Absolutely.

这些做法

That are

都令人惊叹。

incredible.

我想知道，这种好奇心是不是你从别的地方带过来的？

And I wanted to know, is that sort of curiosity something that you've transferred over from something else?

这是不是你与生俱来的特质？

Is that something that's innate to you?

这种一点点多努力1%的能力，别人能培养出来吗？

Can someone foster that sort of ability to to try 1%, 1% more?

你有什么建议吗？

How do you advise on that?

这是个非常好的问题。

That that's that's a great question.

说实话，我可能得回到小时候，那时候我十二岁，一个人坐车去纽约城里，到处闲逛。

I you know, I I maybe I go back to my youth, because I used to My mother was a I was 12 years old, I would go into New York City by myself and just wander around the city.

所以我看事情总是从大处着眼，对吧？

So I have a big picture view of things, right?

但只要我决定做一件事，我就会尽我所能做到最好。

So But I, I do, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to, I'm going to do it to the best my ability.

我读了所有丹尼尔斯和菲茨西格纳的书，还几次找比尔·罗杰斯请教。

I read all the, you know, the Daniels books and Fitzsinger's and talked to Bill Rogers a few times.

我还认识了很多其他跑步运动员，向他们讨教经验。

Know, I met so many other athlete runners, and I picked their brains.

我记得有一年在波士顿遇见了比尔·罗杰斯。

And I remember meeting Bill Rogers at Boston one year.

我跑过去问他：比尔，比尔，我该怎么才能跑好这条赛道？

Bob, Bill, Bill, Bill, how do I beat this course?

你知道的。

You know?

他给了我一些建议，就在我去波士顿跑出最好成绩之前。

And he gave me some tips, you know, before one of my best runs ever at Boston.

所以，无论做什么，我们都该带着这份好奇心。

And so it is a sense of curiosity in everything that we do.

我自己做事，就一定要做到极致。

You know, when you're going to do some when I you know, for myself, you know, I want to, you know, do 110%.

我不会只做八成。

I'm not going to do 80%.

我站在起跑线上时，心里就有数了。

I was you know, I line up.

有时候，身体还没完全准备好。

There's times that I'm not 100% ready physically.

说实话，几乎没人能在起跑时达到百分之百的状态，但我一定会尽全力，给自己争取最好的机会。

I don't think, you know, it's very rare that any of us can be 100% ready at the start line, but I'll do the very best to get to be there to give myself a good chance for success.

然后我也挺喜欢开车的。

And then I do enjoy, like, driving.

你知道吗，我最后一次跑波士顿是2022年，前一天我还专门开车把路线又走了一遍。

You know, I you know, I still would you know, the last time I I ran Boston in 2022, I drove the course again to the day before.

我妻子给我指了路线上那些坑洼的地方，

My wife had showed her the, you know, the different bumps the

路况有变化吗？

changed it on you?

确保他们没多加什么障碍。

Make sure they didn't throw an extra on there.

然后

Then

对。

Yeah.

我们会搞定吉恩的。

We'll we'll fix we'll fix Gene.

今年我们换条路线。

We'll change course this year.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

你不能这么轻易就赢过他。

You can't can't beat him like that.

你跟一个花了六七场马拉松才意识到波士顿赛道上有个湖的人说这话吧，对吧，艾伦？

You're talking to a guy who took, I don't know, half a dozen marathon marathons to realize that there's a lake on the course of Boston, right Alan?

对。

Yes.

我已经跑过八次波士顿马拉松了。

I've done eight Boston's now.

快到第六次的时候，我跟《波士顿马拉松手册》的作者聊了聊，他说，等你过了那个湖，我就说，天哪。

Coming up to my sixth, we were talking to the author of the Boston Marathon Handbook And he said, when you get past the lake, I said, woah.

天哪。

Woah.

天哪。

Woah.

天哪。

Woah.

等等。

Hang on.

根本没什么湖。

There's no lake.

对。

Yes.

有的。

There is.

对。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

有的。

There is.

是的。

Yes.

消防站那儿右转。

The fire hall, you turn right.

你明白吧？

You know?

快点。

Come on.

所有那些

All those

可能没尤金准备得那么充分。

Maybe not as well prepared as Eugene.

其实呢，我记得波士顿手册，之前还见过另一份材料。

Well, know, actually, know that Boston Handbook, and I had another guy somewhere along the way.

还有另一本小册子。

Have another booklet.

那是个PDF文件，一步步介绍波士顿的路线。

It was a PDF, like step by step of Boston.

说不定那就是波士顿手册，但至少有类似的东西，对吧？

Maybe that is the Boston Handbook, but there is something like it, right?

就像波士顿的路线，一英里一英里地标出来，对吧？

It's like Boston, like, mile by mile and and right?

几乎每一步都清清楚楚。

Every footstep little literally.

我想这可以很快总结为人生经验第一条。

And I guess that's that that's probably summarized very quickly in bonus life lesson number one.

所以这大概就是人生课101了。

So I guess that's life lesson number 101.

充分准备胜过临时抱佛脚。

Preparation beats last minute heroics.

没错。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

这才是真正的准备。

That's proper preparation.

不过说回来，这又回到了工作和商业的类比。

Then again, that's back to a work analogy, a business analogy.

工作中你可不能凭感觉瞎干。

You don't just wing it at work.

我职业生涯大部分时间都在做销售，从不会不做准备就去见客户。

If I've been in sales for a lot of my career, I don't go on a sales call and wing it.

我会提前研究客户的情况。

I research the customer.

我会确保自己对产品了如指掌。

I make sure I know my product.

我会准备好完整的推销方案，以及应对客户异议的策略。

I make sure I have a pitch or a way that I'm gonna sell and handle objections.

所以，无论是跑五公里还是其他运动，准备方式都是一样的。我记得有一次和一个朋友一起训练，他说他要跑一场马拉松，我就跟着他跑。

So it's no different in how we prepare ourselves for a whether it's a five k, and you've got to know I remember, there was somebody I was running training with, and he says, well, I'm going to run a 20 marathon, and I'm running with him.

我对他说：你连每公里六分半的速度都跑不起来，对吧？

I said, well, you don't run anything faster than like a six thirty kilometer, you know?

你得真正跑起来。

You you gotta run

像五公里这样

like five I

我说，不好意思，但我觉得你做不到，因为你根本没在那个水平上训练过，这点你得明白。

said, I apologize, but I don't think you're capable of doing it because you don't even know what it you haven't ever trained at that level, you know, and try to explain that.

所以你得按照你目标的水平去训练，做好充分准备。

So you've got to train at the level too that you want and be prepared.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

也许肖恩和我可以花几分钟分享一些让我们有共鸣的体会。

Maybe Sean and I could just take a minute out and and maybe just share a couple of lessons that resonate with us.

你们允许我们这么做吗？

Would you permit us to do that,

吉恩？

Gene?

太好了。

Excellent.

请吧。

Please.

我让切尼先说。

I'll give it to Cheyenne.

切尼是孩子，让他先来。

Cheyenne's the kid, so he can go first.

非常感谢。

I appreciate it.

谢谢。

Thank you.

要不我们每人讲几个，看看Gene怎么看。

Maybe we could do a couple each and see how Gene thinks.

当然可以。

Absolutely.

我觉得他们说的都围绕着同一个核心，就是打造一个社群。

I think they think they all resonate around the same idea of of building a community.

这真的特别打动我。

I think that resonates a lot with me.

所以其中一个最早的训练，我记得是第43课。

And so one of the first ones was, you know, a training I think it was lesson 43.

训练小组能把恐惧变成兴奋。

A training group turns fear into excitement.

如果你正在经历一段高强度的训练，或者人生中任何一段正在努力积累、不断成长的时期，我发现跑步有时候反而会让人更害怕。

And if you're in the middle of any sort of big training block or or if you're ever in the build phase of your life where you're building more in and outside of your life and your work, I find that sometimes the runs can become more fearful than they are.

我特别喜欢这一点，因为你把这种感觉说得太到位了。

I really enjoyed the the fact that, again, you put into words so well.

大家一起跑步，知道大家都在同一条船上，有时候自己反而能轻松一点。

You know, the ability to run as a collective, know that you're all pulling the same weight, and sometimes you're pulling a little bit less on your own.

这个想法我很喜欢。

I really like that idea.

所以每次我回蒙特利尔，都会立刻加入以前那个训练小组，一起跑步。

So, you know, when I ever go back to Montreal, I hop right into the training group that I ever was in before, and I would run it.

我觉得以前当跑步屋的工作坊一直有开的时候，你也做过类似的事情，对吧。

And I think that you did some of the same with the running room clinics before when they were consistently available, I think.

我还特别喜欢另一个观点，这跟你常说的一句话很相关，就是别总盯着完美，要转向保持势头。

Another one that I liked a lot was and I think this goes into one of your mantras, you know, turning perfection into sorry, focusing from perfection and focusing on to momentum.

第19课讲的是，几十年如一日地持续运动，比任何一次个人最好成绩都更重要。

Lesson number 19, staying in motion over decades matters more than any single PR.

我们有时候觉得破纪录就是达到了新高度。

Sometimes we think of a PR as I've hit a new level.

我能做得更多了。

I could do more.

这成了一个转折点。

It's been a turning point.

我觉得自己已经实现了目标，这种感觉特别能引起共鸣。

I've achieved what I want to achieve, and it it resonates with us.

有时候，这种感觉真的能推着你继续往前走。

And sometimes it can carry us forward.

它能激励我们去做得更多。

It can motivate us to do more.

不过我觉得，在训练的某些阶段，如果我们只是每天跑步，不一定要参赛，不一定要为特定目标训练，也不一定要破纪录，反而能为我们的跑步生涯，甚至生活其他方面，打下更宽广、更坚实的基础，让跑步中学到的那些道理自然延续下去。

However, I think sometimes we are in phases of our training where if we just run every day without having to race, without having to train for anything specific, without having to get a PR, we could build such a wider and stronger base for our lives in running and outside of running that we can let carry on those lessons from running into that.

我觉得这一点特别打动我，因为它是一个可以迁移到任何领域的道理——你完全可以把跑步换成别的事情，照样适用。

I think that resonated a lot with me that it's it's one of those lessons that you have where you can replace running with anything else, and it works in business.

在教学中也适用。

It works in teaching.

在职业发展中也适用。

It works in career.

在家庭生活中也适用。

It works in family.

在任何事情上都适用。

It works in anything.

所以这对我来说，简直像一句座右铭，特别适合用在我的教学生涯里。

So it's one of those where I could just use as a mantra in my my teaching career with

任何人。

anyone.

太好了。

Excellent.

艾伦，你呢？

What about you, Alan?

你平时会从这些经验中学到哪些具体的建议？

What what kind of advice did you did you like to take from the lessons?

你刚听过了我一开始提到的第三十三条经验。

Well, you heard my lesson number 33 at the start.

别做傻事，而不是完不成目标，这很重要。

Do nothing foolish as opposed to did not finish, which is great.

我特别喜欢那些能改变思维方式、带来观念转变的经验。

I I like particularly like ones that that kind of reframe that are like paradigm shift type of lessons.

接着你刚才说的关于社群的部分，第五十九条：社群能把个人的胜利变成共同的庆祝。

But just following on from your stuff with respect to community, lesson 59, community turns personal victories into shared celebrations.

这话说白了，就是让你去找属于你的那群人。

What that really says, that's management speak for find your tribe.

走出去，找个搭档吧。

Just get out there and find a buddy.

如果你刚到一个新地方，谁都不认识，其实他们都在那儿等着你。

If you're running, if you've arrived in a new place and you don't know anyone, they're all out there.

他们可能有点书呆子气，毕竟跑者大多都比较内向、腼腆。

They're a bit geeky because we runners are a bit shy and geeks mostly.

所以一开始不容易直接发现他们。

So they can be difficult to sort of find straight away.

他们不会主动跳出来喊你加入，但事实上，他们会成为你这辈子最好的朋友。

They're not just leaping out at you saying come on join us, come and join us but in fact they're the best friends you'll ever have.

当你达成目标时，快乐会翻倍，因为你可以和大家一起分享。

And when you achieve something it's so much more fun because you get to do it all together.

你能为别人喝彩，别人也会为你欢呼，这真的很棒。

You get to celebrate other people and they get to celebrate you so that's kind of fun.

说到个人建议，我特别喜欢第28条：跟自己说话时，要像教练，别像

On a personal one, just individual advices, one that I particularly liked was lesson 28, talk to yourself like a coach not

批评者

a critic

这正是我常对人说的：跟自己说话，要像对最好的朋友那样。

which is one of the things I say to people, talk to yourself like your best friend.

如果你觉得训练进展不顺，别对自己太苛刻。

If you were thinking, oh my training is going really badly, don't get down on yourself.

想想要是你最好的朋友这么说，你会怎么回应？

Imagine your best friend was saying that to you.

那就用同样的方式回应自己吧。

How would you respond?

我。

Now respond like that, I.

E。

E.

你的教练。

Your coach.

做自己的教练，别做自己的批评者。

Be your own coach not your own critic.

我觉得这是很有用的建议。

Which I think is useful advice.

有时候我们对自己特别苛刻，甚至为此感到自豪。

Sometimes we get on our backs where we're our own and sometimes we're proud of it.

我们说，是啊。

We say, oh, yeah.

我可是最严厉的批评者。

I'm my harshest critic.

我逼自己很紧，诸如此类。

I drive myself hard, etcetera.

对。

Yeah.

放松点，各位。

Lighten up, guys.

没错。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

我们能走到今天，似乎正是因为对自己太过苛刻。

Almost as if we reach where we reach because we're so harsh with ourselves.

但有时候，我们能取得这些成就，恰恰是尽管如此。

Sometimes it's actually in spite of that that we've reached so far.

我喜欢这个说法。

I like it.

对。

Yeah.

这又回到了那种糟糕的思维方式，老是对自己说些消极的话。

And that it goes back to that, you know, stinking thinking and, you know, negative that negative talk self talk.

对吧？

Right?

如果你觉得自己能行，那你就能行。

And, you know, if you think you can, you can.

如果你觉得自己不行，其实你也能行。

If you think you can't, you can.

有时候，你要允许自己失败。

And you give yourself permission sometimes to fail.

艾伦，如果你不介意的话，我想再回过头说一下。

You know, I I go back, Alan, if you don't mind.

DNF 没有做任何愚蠢的事。

DNF did nothing foolish.

是的。

Yeah.

我这一生中，真的只遇到过一两次。

And I I've had one two in my career, really.

有一次是在70公里之后的印尼100公里赛跑，因为我在Javelina百公里比赛中脚掌骨烧得厉害。

One was a 100 kilometer race in IDN after after 70, because I had burnt my metatarsals were burning up in the Javelina one hundred.

但我总跟人说，你知道的，每个人都会疼。

But, you know, I always tell people, you know, everybody hurts.

外面每个人都在忍着痛。

Everybody's hurting out there.

当你跑到马拉松34公里或者20英里处，往四周一看，没人脸上有笑容。

When you're at, you know, kilometer 34 or mile 20 in a marathon, and you look around, nobody's smiling.

每个人心里都在想，真够呛。

Everybody's, oh, this sucks.

我真讨厌这样。

I hate this.

我快撑不住了。

I'm hurting.

我们谁都一样，都在硬撑。

We're all hurting.

但如果你受伤了，就停下来。

But if you're injured, stop.

别硬撑着带伤跑。

Like, don't push through an injury.

如果你觉得疼，大家其实都一样疼，真正考验意志的，就是能不能挺过这种疼痛。

But if you're hurt, we're all hurting, and that's that's really the test of fortitude, really, that you can push through the hurt.

当然，尽量别受伤，那才是聪明的做法。

And, you know, and obviously, again, not not getting injured, and that's where that's that did nothing foolish.

当你感觉马上要伤到自己了，比如扭了脚踝、膝盖出问题，或者拉伤了腿筋，这时候就得警觉。

That's that you know, when you're at a point where you're gonna injure yourself, you know, you twist an ankle or your knee or you pull a hamstring.

我以前训练时，从家出发，走到街尽头，就能感觉到腿筋一抽。

I've had, you know, run training runs where I would leave the house, I'll get down to the end of the street and feel a twitch in my hamstring.

你知道怎么处理吗？

And you know what?

我立刻停下，关掉手表，步行回家，绝不做傻事。

I stop I turn my watch off, I walk home because I don't wanna do anything foolish.

我想跑完这一辈子。

I wanna run for the rest of my life.

所以这也回到之前说的，DNF。

And so that's you know, it goes back to that, as well, DNF.

说到DNF，你书里有个特别棒的故事，我觉得咱们现在可以转到更具体的比赛经历，这些故事特别容易让人投入。

Speaking of DNFs, there's a great story in your book, and I think we're gonna switch gears into, like, more specific race stories, which are I find are are so easy so so nice to grip on.

听着特别有意思。

So so cool to grip on.

有一个，不是你的，是你朋友戴尔在阿尔伯塔落基山脉的一场比赛里的事。

There's one, actually, not yours, but of your friend Dale at a at a race in the Alberta Rockies.

对。

Mhmm.

我觉得他当时其实做了一件挺冒失的事。

I would say that he actually did something foolish.

我不想剧透。

I don't wanna spoil it.

我特别想听听你对这个故事的看法，如果这里面有什么值得参加类似户外赛事的人借鉴的教训，我真的很想听你讲讲这个故事，以及你从中得到的感悟。

I would love to hear what you have to say about that story, and if there's a lesson there for for people in races like those which are out in the open and they do the kind of thing Dale does, I would love for to hear that story and hear what your lesson is from that.

是的。

Yeah.

戴尔是个特别棒的朋友。

Dale's a great friend.

他是个铁人，专跑一百英里的那种疯子。

He's a he's a 100 miler, crazy man.

我记得他大概完成了八到九场这样的比赛。

I think he's run about eight or completed about eight or nine.

他参加的就是你提到的那场加拿大死亡赛。

He was in the Canadian death race run that you're talking about.

其实吧，我从来没跑过那场，但我特别喜欢这种名字里带‘死亡’的赛事，听着就带感。

And, actually, I you know, I I've I've never run-in that, but I love I love the name of a race that has death in it.

顺便说一句，那个做事有点冒失的不是戴尔本人。

Oh, and by the way, Dale is not the one person the person dissidentally foolish.

他是那个一起跑步的伙伴，

It's the running buddy with

是那个一起跑步的人做了点事，他们当时正在跑步，是的。

It was the running buddy who did something So they were running yeah.

他们正在跑一段路，有个跑步的朋友或熟人，两人说好要一起跑，我觉得是全程或者至少跑一段。

They were running at on a leg, and and he had a running friend, acquaintance that he they decided they were gonna stay together and run run, I think, the entire race together or part of it.

他来自安大略省。

And he was from Ontario.

戴尔来自波特佩里。

Dale's from Port Perry.

总之，他们正在跑步，后来在补给站停了下来，或者只是休息一下。

Anyway, they were running, and, they stopped, I think, in an aid station, or they stopped for a rest.

然后那个朋友决定：我要自己走了。

And the friend decided, I'm gonna take off on my own.

于是他甩开戴尔，自己抢先跑了起来。

And left and started running ahead of Dale.

比赛中的补给站，大概每十公里一个吧。

And so the race the aid stations are, you know, five, ten k, probably 10 k apart.

达勒到达下一个补给站时，就问：‘我朋友怎么样了？’

So Dale gets to an age next age station, and how's my friend doing?

他们说：‘我们没记录到他。’

They're like, well, we got no record.

经过补给站时，我们会记录参赛者的号码。

They take a record of your bid that you come through.

我们根本没看到他经过这里。

We have no record of him coming through.

达勒急了，因为那人早就不见了。

Now Dale's panicky because the guy had left.

后来才知道，那人其实撑不住了，干脆离开赛道，去了镇上，直接退出了比赛。

And so, the long story that the person took it upon themselves that they they were struggling, and they decided to go off the course and go into town or something and and literally left the run.

与此同时，他们还调了直升机去找人。

And meanwhile, they they they ended up getting a helicopter.

他们组织了一整支搜救队去找他，还以为他出事了，最后还真找到了。

They did a whole search for the guy, and they thought he was, you know, in trouble, and they had a whole search party and, you know, found him.

但这彻底毁了戴尔的比赛，他特别担心朋友是不是受伤了。

But it ruined Dale's race because he was so upset that his friend, you know, might have got injured.

谁知道呢。

Who knows?

可能是被熊袭击了，或者在落基山脉里碰上别的什么危险。

You know, bear attack or whatever it could be out in the Rockies.

他当时躺在地上。

He was lying in a

没错，这纯粹就是个错误的决定。

country Yeah, so that was just, you know, that was just, you know, a bad decision.

我跑过超马，凡是有过这种经历的人都知道，脑子很容易走神。

Now, I've run and anybody that's run ultras, you know, your mind wanders.

我本人就出现过幻觉。

You've seen I've had hallucinations.

你知道吗，晚上一个人跑步的时候，那地方真挺吓人的，一旦你开始体力透支，脑子一迷糊，很容易就跑偏了。

You know, it it's it can be a scary place when you're running at night and you're if you're by yourself, and it's sometimes, you know, it's easy to go get off track if your mind if you, you know, get, you know, start bonking.

跑步这事儿真的很严肃，哪怕是马拉松的距离也一样。

So it's a very serious thing, this running, and and even the marathon distance.

不管哪场比赛，都可能出大事。

At any, you know, any race, you know, can be very serious.

所以得熟悉路线，做出明智的决定。

So, you know, that's you know, knowing the course and and, making good decisions.

如果你打算退出比赛，一定要告诉赛事总监。

But tell somebody if you're gonna, you know, leave a race, let the race director know.

跟赛事工作人员说一声。

Let let a race official know.

对。

Yeah.

书里有个故事，我和谢伊恩都觉得特别有意思，就是你和朋友肯那场友好的比赛。

So there was a the story the story that that I think fascinated me and and Cheyenne in in the book was the friendly race that you had with your friend Ken.

对。

Yes.

我们都参加过友好的比赛，和肯一起跑的时候，心里想着：好，来吧，看看谁赢。

We've all had amicable races where you're going to attend Ken together and you think, okay, so it's on, let's see who's going to win.

但你把这个搞到了另一个极端。

But you took this to another kind of extreme.

对我们的听众来说，你和朋友肯约定好，以友好方式比拼，不是跑一场马拉松，而是六周内跑六场？

So for our listeners basically you decided with your buddy Ken that you would throw down in a friendly fashion but not one marathon, but six marathons in six weeks?

没错。

Yes.

是啊。

Yeah.

肯是我非常出色的跑友。

So Ken was an amazing peer of mine.

我们俩跑得特别接近。

We running very close together.

那时候我们一起训练，玩得特别开心，虽然彼此都挺好胜的，但完全是友好的竞争。

We were having a lot of fun together, training at the time and we were both pretty competitive with each other but in a friendly way.

然后我们就说，啥？

And yeah, we were like, what?

其实之前我们也比过好几次，比如其他比赛或者活动，经常互相较劲。

You know, we probably had a few other races where we, you know, or events that we, you know, raced each other over the clock.

偏偏有一年，安大略省六周内居然安排了六场马拉松。

And so it just happened to be one year that all there were six marathons in Ontario in six weeks.

全凑到一块儿了。

They all lined up.

斯科蒂亚银行马拉松和多伦多湖滨马拉松正好在同一时段。

They had the Scotiabank and the Toronto Waterfront the same time of year.

还有渥太华秋色马拉松、尼亚加拉瀑布马拉松，以及汉密尔顿的‘从路到希望’马拉松。

It was that Ottawa Fall Colors, Ottawa, Niagara Falls, and then Hamilton Road to Hope.

于是我们就琢磨，要不咱们就全跑了吧？

And yeah, so we said, Why don't we do this?