阴道羞辱

哇哦。

Woo.

冲洗。

Douching.

刺激。

Spicy.

冲洗最初被当作一种避孕方式，或者更准确地说，人们以为它是一种避孕方式。

Douching was originally a form of birth control or thought to be a form of birth control, I should say.

它并不能作为避孕手段起作用。

It does not work as birth control.

它也被用来预防感染，特别是性传播感染。

It was also used to prevent infection, sexually sexually transmitted infection specifically.

它对这一点也无效。

It doesn't work for that either.

但这就是人们开始这样做原因。

But that is why people started doing it.

然后在二十世纪初，来苏尔出现了。

Then Lysol came around in the early nineteen hundreds.

哦，天哪。

Oh, no.

除了防止怀孕，它还被宣传为能去除异味。

And in addition to stopping pregnancy, it was advertised to fight odors.

现在，如果你退一步想想，等等，你是想告诉我人们真的会用来苏尔进行冲洗吗？

Now if you're if you're gonna step back and say, wait, are you trying to tell me that people would douche with Lysol?

不。

No.

是的。

Yes.

人们用来苏尔作为冲洗液，它就是被当作冲洗产品销售的。

People used Lysol as a it was sold as a douche.

这并不是超说明书使用。

It wasn't it wasn't off label.

它就在标签上。

It was on the label.

这是一种专为有阴道的人设计的Lysol冲洗液，用于避孕和保持清新。

It is a Lysol douche for people with vaginas to use to prevent pregnancy and to keep things fresh.

哦，天哪。

Oh, no.

这根本看起来不健康。

It doesn't even seem healthy.

确实不健康。

It wasn't.

它造成了伤害。

It did cause damage.

它会引起疼痛，但人们却被告知这没问题，仍要继续使用。

It caused pain, and people were told it was fine and to keep doing it anyway.

在整个二十世纪二十年代和三十年代，许多女性护理产品被开发出来。

Throughout the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, a lot of feminine care products were developed.

我们得说‘十九二十年代’，这感觉真奇怪，对吧？

It's weird that we have to start saying nineteens there, isn't it?

我知道。

I know.

这确实很奇怪。

That's weird.

想一想。

Think about.

二十年代。

The twenties.

而且，这类产品通常被称为‘女性护理’或‘女性卫生’产品。

And and again, feminine care or feminine hygiene is is generally the name that you'll see given to this category of products.

再说一遍，这是一个不准确的性别化术语。

Once again, this is a gendered term that is not accurate.

但很多这类产品其实是不必要的。

But a lot of these products are unnecessary.

所以只是顺便提一下。

So Just to throw that in there.

不管怎样，把它们扔进历史的垃圾堆吧。

Just just leave them in in trash bin of history anyway.

是的。

Yes.

它们的用途是针对如给阴道增添香味和清新气味之类的东西。

And the idea is that they were aimed at things like scenting and freshening the vagina.

比如当我们最初开发护垫时，最早可用的卫生巾会做成有花香的那种类型。

So like when we first developed panty liners, the the earliest pads that that were available, they would make them like flowery scented and that kind of thing.

还有湿巾之类的东西，用来让气味更好闻。

Wipes and things that you could make stuff smell better.

当然，还有灌洗液。

Of course, douches.

当我们意识到卫生棉条和卫生巾开始普及时，情况就变了。

And it was sort of like we realized as as tampons and pads became a thing.

因为我们正处在同一个时代，那时人们来月经时还得佩戴那种固定卫生巾的腰带，这些装置很可能非常不舒服，也严重限制了人们的活动。

Because we're looking at the same era where like, we move from when when someone was having a period, they had to wear like those belts that would strap on to the pad and all this, which were probably very uncomfortable and limiting as to what you could do with them.

随着卫生棉条和卫生巾变得便携，人们变得更加活跃，能够在经期继续工作或外出，自由地参与社会活动。

As we move into tampons and pads that you could take with you and like people become more mobile and are able to like continue to work or do whatever, be out in the world while they are on their periods.

我认为，许多营销人员意识到，对于这些必须处理生殖器问题的人群，可以销售大量相关产品。

It I think it dawned on a lot of marketers that well, you could sell lots of things then to these people that have to do with their genitalia.

这是一个我们可以赚大钱的领域。

This is a whole area where we could make a lot of money.

这一切都完美地契合了这个叙事。

And it all fit nicely into this narrative.

这是劣等的生殖器官。

This is inferior genitalia.

它天生就需要被修复。

It inherently needs work.

我们喜欢赚钱。

We like to make money.

我们会为你售卖相关产品。

We will sell you things for it.

配件。

Accessories.

专为你的阴道设计的配件。

Accessories for your vagina.

从那以后，各种产品就开始蓬勃发展了。

And things took off from there.

比如哪些？

Like what?

我等会儿去账务部门之后就告诉你。

I'm gonna tell you right after we go to the billing department.

走吧。

Let's go.

我们家尽量在尽可能多的晚上围坐在餐桌旁，一起吃晚饭。

We make an effort at our house to get around the dinner table as much as is possible on as many nights as we can and eat dinner together.

而且当我们有时间的时候，我喜欢和西德一起做饭。

And when we can, again, I like to cook dinner, Sid and I do.

你知道，我们甚至让女儿们也参与进来。

You know, we've even gotten the girls in on the act.

烹饪是我们一家人经常一起做的事情。

Cooking is something we do a lot as a family.

我们对此非常认真，真的非常重视。

It's something we took really, we we take really seriously.

我们学习烹饪的方式主要是通过像HelloFresh这样的服务。

And the way we really learned to cook was from services like HelloFresh.

HelloFresh是一个很棒的餐食配送服务，如果你想多一些烹饪经验，或者想让做饭重新变得有趣，我强烈建议你试试。

HelloFresh is a fantastic meal service that if you wanna get a little bit more experience with cooking, you wanna bring the fun back to cooking maybe, I think it is well worth checking out.

他们每周提供一百多道美味食谱，都是应季的、贴近当下口味的全球菜肴。

They got over a 100 delicious recipes every week, seasonal stuff, you know, stuff that really feels like now, and global dishes.

所有食材都选用健康原料，比如可持续捕捞的海鲜和100%无抗生素、无激素的鸡肉。

And it's all made with wholesome ingredients like sustainably sourced seafood and a 100% antibiotic and hormone free chicken.

所以这是一个很好的方式，让你开始烹饪，并给你的家人一个聚在餐桌旁的理由，让你感到非常安心。

So it's it's a really good way to get cooking and give your family, you know, a reason to come around the table, that you can feel super good about.

请前往 hellofresh.com/sawbones10fm，领取10顿免费餐食和一把价值144.99美元的ZWILLING刀具。

So go to hellofresh.com/sawbones10fm to get 10 free meals and a free Zwilling knife, which is a $144.99 value.

我会让你知道的。

I will have you know.

在你的第三个包裹中生效，优惠数量有限，送完即止。

On your third box, offer valid while supplies last.

免费餐食将作为首单折扣使用。

Free meals applied as discount on first box.

仅限新订阅用户，具体因计划而异。

New subscribers only varies by plan.

西德尼，如果我没记错的话，你马上又要让我震惊于更多关于阴道的不当护理了。

Sydney, if I remember correctly, you're about to horrify me with more vaginal mistreatment.

关键是，很多这类产品虽然声称能带来各种其他好处，比如香味之类的，我应该说，是所谓的益处。

So the big thing is that a lot of these products, even though they were they would offer you all these other benefits with like scent and things, supposed benefits, I should say.

在很多情况下，尤其是使用阴道冲洗器时，它们存在的核心原因是为了避孕。

They they were the core reason they existed was for birth control in a lot of cases, especially the douche.

然后我们才真正找到了有效的避孕方法。

Then we realized how to like actually make birth control that worked, that was real.

所以我们意识到，阴道冲洗从来就没有效果。

And so and we realized that douching has never worked.

我们也不确定。

We don't know.

我们可能知道它没用，也可能不知道。

We knew maybe we knew it didn't, maybe we didn't know.

但为什么我们曾经推荐过它呢？

But why did we ever recommend it?

于是，阴道冲洗器的销售商和营销人员不得不想出新的宣传说法。

And so the people who the douche sellers and douche marketers had to come up with a different message.

阴道冲洗器销售商听起来就像一部非常乏味的英国广播公司迷你剧，不是吗？

The douche seller sounds like a very, unenjoyable BBC miniseries, doesn't it?

那么，在人们知道冲洗无法防止怀孕之后，我们如何让他们继续为阴道购买冲洗产品呢？

So how do we get people to continue to buy douches for their vaginas now that they know that they're not gonna keep them from becoming pregnant?

所以，不如我们说，你丈夫可能因为你不够干净而离开你或出轨。

So how about instead we say, you know, your husband could be leaving you or cheating on you because you aren't clean enough down there.

而解决这个问题的方法只有一个。

And there's only one way to fix that.

经典的广告手法。

Classic advertising thing.

对吧？

Right?

就像《广告狂人》里经常提到的那样。

Like they talk about on Mad Men a lot.

广告实际上是在创造一种需求，也就是制造一种只有通过购买产品才能消除的内疚或羞耻感。

Like, the advertising is really creating it's creating a want, like, which is basically creating guilt or shame that can only be fixed by a product.

没错。

Exactly.

在早期的营销中，这与异性婚姻紧密相关，因为人们不会公开谈论婚姻之外的性行为。

And and in the early marketing, it was very much tied to this, like, to a heterosexual marriage because the idea that people were having sex outside of marriage would not have been spoken of.

不过，你已经是在谈论阴道了，这本身就已经很越界了。

Well, you're already right on the line by talking about vaginas anyway.

它必须非常专注于……

It's gotta be So very focused on the

这则广告明显是针对妻子的。

it was very much an ad aimed at a wife.

广告的理念是，如果你像你们初遇那天一样清新，他会更喜欢。

And the idea was you he he would like it if you were as fresh as you were the day you met.

核心理念始终是：让你的私处保持像婚礼那天一样。

That was very that was always the underlying make your genitalia the way it was on your wedding night.

我知道这听起来有多恶心。

Was I know how gross this is.

确实如此。

It is.

这太恶心了。

It's very gross.

这一切都太恶心了。

It's all very gross.

每个人都记得自己伴侣在婚礼当晚的阴道是什么样子。

Everybody remembers what their partner's vagina was like on their wedding night.

他们只是在追逐那段记忆。

They're just chasing that that memory.

这很有趣，因为当你进入女性解放运动时期，广告信息也随之变化，比如七十年代，你又会看到类似的信息，但依然非常异性恋中心主义。

It's funny because you see things like, evolve as we move into like, some more of the women's liberation movement and you get different messages, messages into like the seventies where you have like some again, it's all very it's all very heteronormative.

但你会看到一对男女，明显被设定为嬉皮士的样子。

But you get like a man and a woman who are very clearly supposed to look like kind of like hippies.

是的。

Uh-huh.

他说：我总是喜欢她那里的方式，但她知道我其实特别喜欢杏子的香味。

And he's like, I always love the way she is down there, but she knows that I really love the smell of apricots.

这就像是

And it's like

就像在车里挂个空气清新剂一样，我喜欢他的车，但最喜欢车里挂着那些小树状香氛的时候。

It's like like hanging a freaking air freshener down like, I love his car, but I love it the most when it's got those little trees in there.

这就像是，随着性解放、女权主义等的发展，它们也必须随之演变。

It was like it was like they had to evolve as like sexual empowerment evolved and feminism and all this.

所以，让我们以一种更微妙的羞耻方式来进化，这样她们就不会察觉到。

So like, let's evolve with that to a different way of shaming that's subtler Own so that they don't catch on.

通过让你的阴道散发出芒果闪亮浆果的香味来掌控你的性魅力。

Own your sexuality by making your vagina smell like mango sparkle berry.

没错。

Exactly.

明白了。

Got it.

让你的私密生活保持清新，无论是在婚姻内还是婚姻外，都能拥有性觉醒的体验。

Keep keep your business fresh for your sexually empowered experiences in or outside of a marriage.

但再次强调，所有这些广告中仍然只代表了异性恋。

But again, still only heterosexual, you know, is represented in any of this advertising.

但别管这些信息全是错的。

But never mind that all these messages are wrong.

整个想法，你知道的，当然是错误的，即阴道天生就是脏的、不干净的、不清新或有异味的。

That the whole the whole idea, you know, is is of course wrong that it that vaginas inherently are dirty or unclean or unfresh or smelly.

这全是贬低且错误的。

It's all degrading and wrong.

但他们只是随着文化变迁，将同样的概念进行了改造以吸引人们。

But they just morphed that same concept to appeal to people as culture shifted.

最终，医生们也开始认同这些产品有害的观点，意识到阴道具有自洁功能。

Eventually, doctors would get on board with the idea that these products were harmful with the realization that like, the vagina is self cleaning.

阴道不需要被清洗。

The vagina does not need to be cleaned out.

是的。

Mhmm.

而这正是为什么术语真的很重要，因为我们谈论的是外阴，它是外部的。

And again, this is why, you know, terminology really is important because we're talking about our vulva, which is external.

就像你洗澡或淋浴时，清洁与外界接触、可能变脏、出汗或有其他污垢的身体部位是很重要的。

And just as like when you're taking a bath or a shower, it is important to clean your body that has contact with the outside world or could get dirty or sweaty or whatever.

所以偶尔清洁自己是很重要的。

And so it is important to occasionally clean yourself.

外阴是外部的。

The vulva is external.

阴道是内部的。

The vagina is internal.

它不需要被清洁。

It does not need to be cleaned.

你的身体自己就能处理。

Your body's handling it.

是的。

Yes.

阴道具有自清洁功能。

The vagina is is self cleaning.

它有特定的pH值，不需要人为干预。

And there it has a specific pH, and it does not need to be messed with.

更不需要使用香味产品。

And it certainly doesn't need to be scented.

所有这些产品都可能有害。

And all of these products could be harmful.

除了正常的阴道菌群外，还有一些本应存在于体内的有益细菌，应当让它们正常生长。

In addition to your normal vaginal flora, there is there are bacteria that are supposed to be there that are good and that should grow.

试图用来苏水之类的东西把它们全部清除，会对你的健康造成伤害。

And going and trying to wipe them all out with Lysol or whatever it is is harmful to you and your health.

因此，针对这一点，冲洗器厂商推出了阴道湿巾、洗液和喷雾，专门用于外部清新。

So in response to that, the douchers came out with vaginal wipes and shampoos and sprays just for the external freshening.

只是为了再次强调这个观念——贾斯汀，你有没有被推销过这种想法？

Just so that again, the idea being and I have you ever had this idea sold to you, Justin?

我想知道，当你在外界日常活动时，是否偶尔需要偷偷去洗手间，擦拭一下生殖器，让它更清新。

I would like to know that when you are out in the world going about your day, that occasionally you need to sneak off to a bathroom so that you can wipe down your genitalia to make it fresher.

我认为最接近的类比是关于除臭剂的信息。

I think the closest parallel is the the messages that we get about deodorant.

对吧？

Right?

没错。

Like Sure.

你会感受到那种羞耻的体味。

You get, you know, your your shame your shameful stink.

地铁上所有人都讨厌它，也讨厌你，于是你得去用更好的止汗剂。

And and everyone on the subway hates it, and they hate you, and you need to go put on a better antiperspirant.

这是我能想到最接近的例子。

That's the closest I get.

我几乎从未收到过任何关于我的生殖器应该如何处理的信息。

I I get very little, like, messages about the way my genitalia needs to be.

你需要偷偷找个地方，在内裤里喷点东西，让它闻起来更好闻。

That you need to sneak off somewhere and spray something in your underwear so that it smells nicer.

不。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，人们会谈论这个，但这更像是一种被接受的商业成本，你知道的。

It's just, I mean, people will talk about it, but it's much more just an accepted cost to do business rather than, you know.

而且这很有趣，因为这涉及阴道以及对阴道的羞辱。

And and it's it's interesting because this is one, the the vagina and the shaming of the vagina.

这其实并不符合任何一边的政治立场。

This is really not aligned with one or the other like political end of the spectrum.

因为对于卫生棉条和卫生巾，我们已经看到很多天然产品的兴起，比如所有这些原始的卫生巾和棉条都被认为对身体有害。

Because with tampons and pads, we've seen a lot of we've seen the rise of like natural products that are being sold like inherently anything, all of these, original pads and tampons and things that came out are bad for you.

它们含有毒素。

They have toxins.

它们会伤害你。

They will damage you.

没错。

Right.

阴道润滑剂。

Vaginal lubricants.

曾经有一段时间，许多非常前卫的健康倡导者，他们有自己的生活方式网站，会告诉你有些润滑剂含有毒素，是人工合成的，使用它们会对你的身体造成伤害。

There were a lot that for a while, specifically some very, I would say, progressive wellness advocates with their own lifestyle websites would tell you that there are lubricants that have toxins in them and are artificial and and they'll harm you if you use them.

所以不要使用任何那些产品。

And so don't use any of those.

这里有一些非常昂贵的有机天然产品，你必须使用它们，以免不小心伤害到你的阴道，或干扰你的内分泌系统，或他们想到的任何其他东西。

Here are these very expensive organic natural products that you have to use to so that you don't accidentally, you know, damage your vagina or disrupt your endocrine system or whatever they Whatever come up

其他。

else.

是的。

Yeah.

这尤其令人反感，正如许多倡导者指出的那样，因为在世界许多地方，人们根本难以获得这些产品。

Which which is especially insulting, as a lot of advocates have pointed out, to, places all over the world where just access to these products is such a problem.

因此，月经期可能完全限制了这些人的生活质量，因为他们无法上学、上班或出门，因为他们无法获得这些产品。而更进一步地说，只推荐使用某种特定的天然品牌，这又是另一种让你感到羞愧的方式——让你觉得你做错了，你的私处处理得不对。

And so therefore, the menses can be completely limiting to those people's quality of life because they are unable to go to school or go to work or leave the house when they're occurring because they don't have access to these products to then like take it a step further and go, oh, but only use this specific natural brand that is promoted is, again, another way of shaming you for doing it wrong, doing your vagina wrong.

而且，这种伤害往往还会代代相传。

And again, a lot of this damage can also get handed down.

我想说，很多人在最初了解私处护理和保养时——我其实说的是外阴，但大家总是用‘阴道’来泛指整个区域。

I would say a lot of people when they first learned about vaginal upkeep and maintenance, and again, I'm really talking about vulva, but everybody just uses the word vagina to mean the whole thing.

他们很可能从家人那里学到这些，比如母亲、姐妹，或者朋友，告诉他们‘要把毛剃掉’、‘不该长成那样’、‘我总是用这种湿巾，因为它让你更清新’之类的。

They probably learned it from a from a family member, from a mother or a sister or maybe a friend, you know, who told them like, oh, shave that or that shouldn't look that way or oh, I always use this wipe because this makes you fresher or whatever.

对。

Right.

这看起来似乎你本意是好的。

And it it can it can seem like, you know, you're well intentioned.

你是在试图帮助别人，但这是因为我们都陷入了同样的文化迷思。

You're trying to help somebody out, but it's because we've all fallen victim to the same cultural myth.

因为任何我们文化中不谈论的事情，都会为误解提供充足的滋生空间。

Because anything that we don't talk about as a culture, there's plenty of of shade for misconceptions to grow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

《Teen Vogue》曾发表过一篇文章，我通常很支持《Teen Vogue》，因为我觉得他们做了很多不错的内容。

Teen Vogue did an article, which I usually celebrate Teen Vogue because I think that they they do a lot of good stuff.

2017年，他们曾发表一篇广受关注的文章，标题是‘你的夏日私处’，声称夏天你需要对私处做额外护理，以避免异味。

Back in 2017, there was a much publicized article about your summer vagina with the idea that in the summer, you have to do extra things to your vagina to keep it not funky.

有些建议挺搞笑的，如果你脱离上下文来看，他们建议你做一些事情，比如安全性行为、涂抹防晒霜、如果身上有沙子就冲洗干净。

And some of the things it's it's funny because if you look at the advice out of context, they tell you to do things like practice safe sex, wear sunscreen, rinse sand off of you if you have sand on you.

这听起来很合理。

Seems intuitive.

但是，等等。

But okay.

是的。

Yeah.

这没问题。

That's fine.

但一旦你因为有阴道就必须特别冲洗掉沙子，这就奇怪了。

But once you involve like but because you have a vagina, you have to rinse the sand off you especially.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道这和它有什么关系。

Like, I don't know what that has anything to do with it.

然后他们还建议使用一些阴道湿巾来杀菌。

And then they they involve things like use some vaginal wipes for bacteria.

不要穿湿泳衣，因为它会改变你的阴道pH值。

Don't wear a wet bathing suit because it will change your vaginal pH.

外面的高温会让你的阴道干燥。

The heat outside will dry out your vagina.

那会相当空洞。

Now that would be quite empty.

我不知道这实际上会如何运作。

I don't know how that would actually work.

这些说法都不对。

None of these things are true.

为了预防尿路感染，你必须频繁排尿。

That you have to pee a lot to prevent a urinary tract infection.

这不对。

That's not true.

我的意思是，如果你真的需要排尿，那就去吧，但这种说法并不准确。

I mean, please go urinate if you have to, but that is not that is not accurate.

这一点在这档节目里也适用。

It goes for this show too.

如果你需要休息去上厕所，请便。

If you need to take a break to urinate, please.

或者带上我们一起。

Or take us with you.

我们不知道。

We don't know.

我们不知道你正在经历什么，而且再次强调，阴道并不需要额外的护理。

We don't know you're being and again, the vagina doesn't need extra care.

它只需要和你全身一样的正常护理。

It just needs the normal care that your whole body needs.

你的，你知道的，卫生习惯对所有人的身体都很重要。

Your you know, hygiene is important to everyone with all bodies.

卫生对所有人都很重要。

Hygiene is valuable for all of us.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

并没有一套专门针对阴道或有阴道的人的特殊卫生准则。

It does there is no special set of hygiene rules just for the vagina or for people who have one.

而这一部分的另一点不仅关乎阴道的外观和气味，还关乎它们的功能，这让我们回到了启发本集的音乐视频。

And then the other part of this is not just what vaginas look like and what they smell like, but then what they do, which takes us back to the music video that inspired this whole episode.

有一种观点认为，由于阴道 supposedly 应该保持清新干净，因此存在一种正常且健康的阴道分泌物量。

There is an idea that because vaginas are supposed to be fresh and clean in some way, this that also there is a special amount of vaginal lubrication that is normal and healthy.

如果你分泌过多，那就说明你有问题。

And if you have too much, there's something wrong with you.

如果你分泌过少，那也说明你有问题。

And if you have too little, there's something wrong with you.

我认为这种观念也与此密切相关——这可能是为什么这种想法如此根深蒂固的原因。

And I think that this also gets tied into this is probably why some of this is so pervasive.

我说得对吗？请纠正我。

I and correct me if I'm wrong.

我怀疑，阴道分泌物过少被污名化，也与我们对伴侣性表现的观念有关。

I suspect that the idea of too little vaginal lubrication being stigmatized is also tied to our beliefs about what it says about your partner's sexual performance.

我觉得这很合理。

I think that's fair.

是的。

Yeah.

有一种观念认为，如果你没有足够的阴道润滑，那就是你的伴侣做得不对。

There is some idea that your partner is doing it wrong if you're if you do not have enough vaginal lubrication.

如果你使用人工润滑剂，他们会对你指指点点。

If you use artificial lube, they're shaming.

比如，这又是你伴侣的错，还是你本身有问题？

Like, oh, again, is it your partner's fault or what's wrong with you?

你是不是没有足够了解自己？我以前听过这种说法。

Are you not I've heard this before.

你是不是对自己、对自己的身体不够了解？

Are you not in touch enough with yourself, with your body?

你是不是在精神层面上对自己不够投入，所以无法产生这种反应？

Are you not in touch spiritually with yourself enough to be able to make that happen, to generate it?

而在另一端，又有一种观念认为，阴道润滑过多的人就是放荡、肮脏或有什么不好的地方。

And then again, on the other end, there's this some idea that somehow someone who has more vaginal lubrication is promiscuous or or dirty or something bad.

更粗俗。

Raunchier.

是的。

Yes.

某种东西。

Something.

而且这很恶心。

And that it's gross.

那种想法，哦，太多了。

That the idea that oh, well, that's too much.

你现在做得过头了。

Now you've taken it too far.

这很恶心。

It's gross.

我甚至读到过，有一段时间，好像在Instagram上出现了某种东西，是吗？

And I I even read that there was something like that for a while there was this idea that something had developed on like Instagram, was it?

或者在某个青少年应用上，有个‘干内裤挑战’，用来证明你很干净。

Or one of those teen apps for a dry panties challenge to prove that you were clean.

天哪。

Gee.

显然，这和我们之前那种会阴日光浴的经历很像。

Apparently, this was much like our perineal sunning episode.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

那时我们了解到

Where we learned that

等等，亲爱的。

Wait, hon.

你的意思是？

You mean?

私处日晒。

Taint tanning.

是的。

Yes.

那个。

That.

对。

Yes.

那个。

That.

就是在那里我们了解到，这其实就像三个人加上一堆新闻报道，我觉得这个情况很相似。

Where we learned that it was really just like three people and then a bunch of news articles, I think this was similar.

就像三个人和一堆新闻报道。

It was like three people and a bunch of news articles.

但我认为，这么多人立刻相信这是真的，恰恰证明了‘阴道干燥’这个观念仍然被认为是一种需要追求客观完美的状态。

But I think the fact that so many people immediately believed that was true is proof that this idea that like the dryness of the vagina is still very much up for like objective perfection.

是的。

Yeah.

它应该一直保持多干呢？

How dry should it be at all times?

那么，在什么情况下不干燥是可以接受的？

And when is it acceptable to be not dry?

在那些情况下，不干燥到什么程度才算正常？

And in those cases, how not dry can it get Right.

在我们认定这是个问题之前。

Before we declare a problem.

作为一名医生，我曾与许多有阴道的人就正常的阴道分泌物进行过大量对话。

I have had many many conversations with through in my profession as a physician with people with vaginas about normal vaginal discharge.

人们普遍存在一个巨大的误解，认为阴道应该在大多数时候保持完全干燥，只在某种性唤起或亲密行为发生时才分泌，然后立即恢复完全干燥的状态。

There is a huge misconception that the vagina should be completely dry right up until the moment of some sort of maybe arousal or intimacy, and then it should immediately return to its completely dry state.

这并不正确。

This is not true.

阴道内壁覆盖着黏膜组织，是一种黏液膜样的结构。

The vagina is lined with a with mucosal, mucus membrane type lining, a mucosal lining.

嗯。

Mhmm.

它天生就是湿润的。

It is naturally moist.

宫颈分泌的黏液是正常的。

The cervix has mucus that is normal.

这是自然的。

It is natural.

它在月经周期中会变得不同稀稠。

It is of different thinness throughout the menstrual cycle.

有时会有一些分泌物排出，有时则没有。

So sometimes it may come out as a little bit of discharge, sometimes it doesn't.

它不干燥是有原因的。

It is not dry for a reason.

它不应该是完全干燥的。

It's not supposed to be completely dry.

它从来就不是干燥的。

It never is.

而且再次强调，这并不是外阴部分。

And again, that not the vulva on the outside.

我们说的是阴道。

We're talking about the vagina.

阴道并不是干燥的。

The vagina is not dry.

我认为我们有一种观念，认为任何分泌物都意味着有问题，是肮脏和奇怪的。

And I think that we have this idea that any sort of discharge means a problem and is gross and weird.

我认为这种观念源于我们刚才讨论的这些内容。

And I think it traces to all this stuff we're talking about.

那种认为生殖器必须完美，否则就是没做好、或者因为你的情况而天生有缺陷的想法。

The idea that there is a perfect genitalia, and you can't have it, or you didn't do it right, or you're broken inherently because of what's going on with you.

我有一个生动的比喻。

I got an exciting metaphor.

你告诉我我这个比喻离谱到什么程度。

Let me know how far off I am.

好的。

Okay.

阴道就像眼睛一样。

That it's like the vagina is like eyeballs.

对吧？

Right?

它们必须一直保持湿润，否则无法正常工作。

They have to be wet all the time or they don't work right.

如果它们变得非常湿润，有时是因为你在哭。

If they get really wet, sometimes it means you're crying.

但其他时候，它们也会变得非常湿润，而你并没有哭。

But other times, they get really wet and you're not crying.

它们只是因为各种原因自然变得非常湿润。

They just happen to get really wet for any number of reasons.

所以，如果你看到它们非常湿润，并不意味着你难过。

But so if you see them very, very wet, it doesn't mean you're sad.

这可能意味着很多不同的事情。

It could mean a lot of different things.

但如果你看到它们干燥，并不意味着你不难过。

But if you see them dry, it doesn't mean you're not sad either.

有些人总是有点难过。

Some people are a little bit sad all the time.

所以你无法通过眼球的湿润程度来判断一个人的感受，但重要的是，它们在大多数时候都应该是湿润的。

So it's you can't really tell much about how somebody feels based on their eyeball wetness, but it is important that they be wet sometime, most of almost all the time.

它们就跟眼球一样。

They're just like eyeballs.

阴道就像眼球。

Vaginas like eyeballs.

这个

This

这是一个奇怪但某种程度上很准确的比喻。

was a weird but somewhat accurate, analogy.

阴道就像眼睛。

Vaginas like eyeballs.

好的。

Okay.

每个人都有眼睛。

Everybody's got eyeballs.

绝大多数人都有眼睛。

Most most everybody's got eyeballs.

所有眼睛。

Every eyeballs.

但他有阴道。

But he has a vagina.

没错。

That's right.

所以我在试着解释，我在试着让他们明白，我懂了。

So I'm trying to explain I'm trying to give them I gotcha.

好的。

Okay.

对。

Right.

对于那些没有的人。

For people who don't.

而对于许多拥有但没有接受过这方面的教育的人。

And for a lot of people who do, who are not taught this stuff.

一切。

Everything.

因为我们从不谈论阴道。

Because we don't talk about vaginas.

我们甚至不需要

We don't even need

再这样了

to anymore

因为

because

这个我们看到的眼球部分已经被移除了。

This we got eyeball thing is taken off.

阴道就像眼球一样。

Vagina's like eyeballs.

就是这样。

That's it.

这时候我要补充一点，当然有些情况确实会改变这些特征。

This is when I throw out there the caveat that there are conditions that do alter these things, of course.

是的。

Yes.

对吧？

Right?

当然。

Of course.

比如过敏。

Allergies for one.

要说明的是，不行。

To address no.

具体来说，本的鉴别诊断中提到的细菌性阴道炎会导致分泌物增多和异味。

To address specifically the conditions that, were were in Ben's differential diagnosis, bacterial vaginosis can cause excessive discharge and an odor.

酵母菌感染通常会导致更浓稠的白色分泌物，那种分泌物你大概不会误以为是阴道润滑液，同时还伴有瘙痒和灼烧感。

A yeast infection usually causes more of like a thick white discharge, not like, I don't know, that you would not mistake it for vaginal lubrication, probably, as well as some itching and burning.

滴虫性阴道炎会引起分泌物、异味，以及排尿时的疼痛。

Trichomoniasis can cause a discharge, some odor, and some pain when you pee.

确实存在一些原因会导致阴道分泌物异常，这可能是疾病的征兆，需要加以处理。

There are reasons why you could have a vaginal discharge that is abnormal, that is indicative of an illness, and that needs to be addressed.

这就是为什么我建议所有有阴道的人，和我建议所有没有阴道的人一样。

Which is why I recommend everybody with a vagina, the same thing that I would recommend everybody not with a vagina.

如果身体出现让你感到困扰的情况，就去检查一下。

If there's something going on in your body that is causing you distress, go get it checked out.

请。

Please.

请做吧。

Please do.

请永远不要假设你认为和感受到的问题是正常的。

Please don't ever assume that something that you think and feel is a problem is normal.

但有时候，你担心可能有问题的事情其实并没有问题。

But sometimes it is true that stuff you're worried might be a problem isn't.

因为我们的文化和社会让我们深信，我们身体的某些部位应该看起来、感觉起来或闻起来是某种特定的样子，但事实上这些都不对。

And because our culture and our society has ingrained in us that parts of our body are supposed to look a certain way or feel a certain way or smell a certain way when really none of that is true.

我不确定像那种著名的有阴道香味的蜡烛是否真的有帮助？

And I don't know that it's helpful to have like, you know, the famous vagina scented candle?

是的。

Yes.

再说一次，我不知道它闻起来是什么味道。

Again, I don't know what it smells like.

我没有买过。

I did not purchase one.

但不管是什么，好吧，这就是你的阴道。

But whatever it is, okay, well, there's your vagina.

还有很多其他阴道，闻起来各有不同，但都完全正常。

There are like lots of other vaginas that smell a lot of other different ways that are just fine.

是的。

Yeah.

它们没有任何问题。

That have no problems.

完全没问题。

No problems at all.

如果你觉得自己的阴道有问题，请去检查一下。

If you think you have a problem with your vagina, please go get it checked out.

如果你觉得自己的眼睛有问题，也请去检查一下。

If you think you have a problem with your eyeballs, please go get those checked out too.

但暗示湿润的阴道就是不健康的阴道，这种说法极具破坏性且信息错误。

But the implication that a wet vagina is a sick vagina is very damaging and misinformed.

有很多湿润的阴道是完全健康的。

There are lots of wet vaginas that are perfectly healthy.

如果你想要或需要使用阴道润滑剂，这是完全可以的，并不意味着有任何内在问题。

If you want or need to use vaginal vaginal lubricant, that is fine and not indicative of any inherent problem.

或者，如果你不想要或不需要使用阴道润滑剂，这也完全没问题，并不表示有任何问题。

Or if you don't want or need to use vaginal lubricant, that is also fine and not indicative of any problem.

这是一个非常个人化的事情。

It's a very personal thing.

而且，这种对阴道的羞辱，我认为也延伸到了我们社会中某些不该被鼓励、探索或庆祝自己性力量、性存在、性愉悦以及身体所能带来的感受的人群。

And, all this shaming of, I think, the vagina, but also sexuality in certain members of our society who aren't supposed to embrace or, explore or, you know, celebrate their own sexual power, sexual being, enjoyment of sexual activity, what their body can do, what it can allow them to feel.

所有这些都再正常不过了。

All of those things are normal.

坦白说，有阴茎的人一直以来都在庆祝这一点。

And quite frankly, people with penises have been celebrating it forever.

是的

Yeah.

有一段时间了。

For a while.

所以我说它是在

So I it's At

至少从华盛顿纪念碑开始。

least since the Washington Monument.

至少从那时起。

It's At least since.

我认为那之前就已经有了。

I would say before that.

这让人沮丧，因为意思是

It's frustrating because Meaning

比萨斜塔？

Tower Of Pisa?

那个人有一些不足之处，他正试图克服。

That person has some there are some inadequacies that they were trying to work through.

这非常令人沮丧，因为这些反应

It's very frustrating because these reactions

当我开始意识到时，我感到非常尴尬，哦，不。

I was so embarrassed when I started leaning to oh, no.

不是那样的。

It's not like that.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

别看。

Nobody look.

这些对这首歌的反应，而我其实挺喜欢这首歌的。

These reactions, to this to this song, which again, I enjoyed.

我确实很喜欢。

I I quite enjoyed.

我当时在听它。

I was listening to it.

挺好听的。

It was good.

这些反应主要来自我所说的保守派那一端。

These reactions were largely from like, I would say the conservative end of the spectrum.

但阴道总是两面受敌。

But vaginas get hit from both sides.

无论是左派还是右派，都想告诉你该怎样对待你的阴道，什么是正常的阴道，它应该是什么样子、什么模样，诸如此类的各种说法。

Both the left and the right wanna tell you what to do with your vagina and what is a normal vagina and what it should be like and look like and all these different things.

所有这些信息都是不恰当且有害的。

And all of these messages are inappropriate and damaging.

你不需要冲洗阴道，也不必随身携带清新湿巾。

There is no need to douche or or carry around freshening wipes with you.

根本不需要那样做。

There's no need for that.

就像你不需要用蒸汽熏蒸阴道，或把玉蛋放进体内一样。

Just like there is no need to steam your vagina or put a jade egg inside it.

所有这些做法都可能造成严重伤害。

And all of these things can be very damaging.

最好的情况是你被坑了，白白花了一些钱。

The best case scenario is you're getting ripped off and you're gonna waste some money.

但最坏的情况是，在某些情况下，你会伤害到自己的身体。

But the worst case scenario is in some of these cases, you're going to damage your body.

你会对它造成损害。

You're going to do harm to it.

卫生对每个人来说都是一样的。

Hygiene is hygiene for all of us.

好好照顾自己。

Keep yourself well.

如果你有阴道，就不需要进行额外的特殊清洁和护理，因为身体本身已经能够很好地维护它。

There is no need if you are a person with a vagina to do special extra vaginal cleaning and maintenance that it isn't already doing for itself.

我认为整个那一排货架，现在还叫作‘女性卫生’或‘女性护理’专区，抱歉。

And I think that whole aisle, which is still called the feminine hygiene aisle or feminine care aisle, I'm sorry.

我的意思是，并不是所有人，因为那里确实有月经用品。

There I mean, not everyone because like there are menstrual products there.

但几乎每一件产品都可以被取消，而我们依然会过得很好。

But almost every single product could be wiped out and we would still be just fine.

只有一个人能决定你的阴道是否有问题，那就是我。

There's one person that gets to decide if there's a problem with your vagina, and that's me.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

你。

You.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我最后搞砸了。

I messed up right at the end.

我本来感觉挺好的。

I was feeling good about it.

嗯，我会说，你真的去和你的医生聊聊吧。

Well, I would say I would say go go really talk to your doctor about it.

因为有很多我见过的人，他们真的被灌输了阴道有问题的观念，但实际上并没有问题。

Because there are a lot of people I see who who really have been made to feel like there's a problem with their vagina and there isn't one.

但他们接收到的信息太多了。

But they've gotten so many messages.

我甚至都没提到整个阴道成形术的概念，比如，如果你是一个有阴道的人，但你的阴道看起来不像你认为的阴道应该有的样子。

I didn't even get into like the whole idea of vaginoplasty to like, if you have a if you're a person with a vagina but it doesn't look the way that you think a vagina is supposed to look.

比如你曾在电影、电视或阴道的图片中看到过某种样子，觉得它比你的阴道更好看。

Like you saw one in a movie or on TV or in a picture of a vagina that you think looks better than your vagina.

于是你就去做了所谓的整形手术，想让自己的阴道看起来更像那些图片中的样子。

And so you go have, you know, basically plastic surgery to fix your vagina to look more like those vaginas.

那种认为存在一种完美阴道的想法是错误的。

That that idea that there is one perfect vagina is not true.

每个有阴道的人，其阴道的外观都各不相同。

Vaginas look as many different ways as there are people who have them.

就像雪花一样。

Like snowflakes.

非常感谢您收听我们的节目。

Thank you so much for listening to our program.

希望您享受了本期节目，并对阴道有了更多的了解。

We hope you've enjoyed yourself and learned something about vaginas.

正如我们每期节目所说的，这是我们传统的结束语。

As as we say every episode, that's our traditional sign off.

我想说，我非常倾向于使用这些事情的恰当术语。

I like I will say I am very partial to the appropriate words for these things.

我觉得‘外阴’这个词没问题。

I think vulva's fine.

‘阴道’这个词也没问题。

Vagina's fine.

不妨试试用‘小阴唇’这个词一段时间。

Try out labia for a while.

你知道的，就去拥抱这些术语吧。

You know, just embrace these terms.

看看解剖图，真正熟悉这些术语。

Look at a diagram and really get to know these terms.

我喜欢这些词。

I like them.

如果你想了解更多关于《Sawbones》的内容，可以去你任意选择的书店，无论是线上还是——最好还是线上。

If you want more Sawbones, can go to the bookstore of your choice, be it online or I mean, preferably online.

我们就说线上吧。

Let's say online.

然后买一本《Sawbones》的书。

And get the Sawbones book.

我们写了。

We wrote

如今，很多本地书店也都有线上渠道了。

A lot of local bookstores are online too these days.

没错。

Absolutely.

没错。

Absolutely.

你也可以在那里买到我们的书。

And and and you can pick up our book there.

所以这本书既有音频版，也有纸质版。

So that there's audio and, know, paper versions of the book.

谢谢。

Thanks

感谢《模拟》。

for Analog.

感谢模拟版。

The analog.

感谢纳税人允许我们使用他们的歌曲作为节目的片头和片尾。

Thanks to the tax payers for the use of their song medicines as the intro and outro of our program.

感谢MaxFund网络让我们成为他们大家庭的一员，也感谢你们的收听。

Thanks to MaxFund Network for having us as a part of their family, and thank you to you for listening.

我们下周再与你们相见，但在那之前，我的名字是贾斯汀·麦克埃尔罗伊。

We'll be with again you next week, but until then, my name is Justin McElroy.

我是悉尼·麦克埃尔罗伊。

I'm Sydney McElroy.

和往常一样，别在头上钻个洞。

And as always, don't drill a hole in your head.

好的。

Alright.

是的。

Yeah.

Maximumfun.org。

Maximumfun.org.

喜剧与文化。

Comedy and Culture.

艺术家拥有。

Artist owned.

观众支持。

Audience supported.