声音设计师如何为外星人赋予声音（以及250个词）

嘿。

Hey.

我是弗洛拉·利希特曼，您正在收听《科学星期五》。

I'm Flora Lichtman, and you're listening to Science Friday.

几周前在节目中，我们讨论了科幻太空探索电影《星际救援》。

A few weeks ago on the show, we talked about the sci fi space exploration movie Project Hail Mary.

我特别着迷于电影中外星人罗基发出的声音。

And I was particularly obsessed with the sounds that the alien in the movie, Rocky, was making.

这些声音很有特色，也很有趣，而且罗基说很多话。

They're distinctive, and they're funny, and Rocky talks a lot.

于是我问了《星际救援》原著作者、电影制片人安迪·威尔，音效设计师是否真的为罗基创造了一种真实的语言，也就是是否具有内在一致性。

And so I asked Andy Weir, who wrote the book Project Hail Mary Anne, who's a producer on the movie, if the sound designers actually made a real language for Rocky, like, if it was internally consistent.

以下是安迪的回答。

And here's what Andy said.

我不这么认为。

I don't think so.

我的意思是

I mean

我太失望了。

I'm so disappointed.

我没得到我想要的答案。

I didn't get the answer I wanted.

但紧接着，就像电影里一样，我们的听众热线收到了一条非常意外的消息。

But then almost like in a movie, we got this very surprising message on our listener line.

你好，科学星期五。

Hello, Science Friday.

我是来自加利福尼亚州洛杉矶的埃里克·阿达勒。

This is Erik Aadahl calling from Los Angeles, California.

我是长期听众，最近刚听了你对安迪·威尔和王博士关于《星际救援》科学内容的访谈。

I'm a longtime listener, and I recently enjoyed your interview with Andy Weir and Doctor.

关于《星际救援》的科学内容。

Wong about the science of Project Hail Mary.

有人问到了《岩浆》中外星语言的音效设计。

A question came up about the sound design of Rocky's alien language.

作为《星际救援》的音效设计师，我正好能回答这个问题。

And as the sound designer of Project Hail Mary, I'm in a unique position to answer.

我喜欢你们的节目。

Love your show.

继续加油。

Keep up the good work.

埃里克不仅是《星际救援》的音效设计师。

Erik is not just the sound designer behind Project Hail Mary.

他还参与了2014年版《哥斯拉》、《变形金刚》和《寂静之地》的音效制作。

He also did sound on twenty fourteen's Godzilla, Transformers, and A Quiet Place.

他今天要跟我们分享制作电影怪兽咆哮及其他音效的艺术与科学。

And he's here to tell us all about the art and science of making movie monster roars and more.

埃里克·阿达尔，感谢你来到这里。

Erik Aadahl, thank you for being here.

很高兴能来到这里。

It's a pleasure to be here.

我真的特别高兴你联系我们。

I'm genuinely so happy you called us.

这简直就是我的极客核心所在。

This is, like, the center of my nerdiness.

这似乎是世界上最棒的工作。

It it seems like the best job.

这是最棒的工作吗？

Is this the best job?

嗯，我没什么太多别的参照物。

Well, I I don't have too many frames of reference.

但是的，我认为这是我能想象到的最棒的工作之一。

But, yeah, I would say it is one of the best jobs I can imagine.

你是不是那种在餐厅里总在仔细听声音的人？

Are you that person at the restaurant who's like always listening?

比如，我听到一个有趣的茶杯轻碰声，就非得录下来不可。

Like, you like, guys, I hear an interesting teacup clink, and I must capture it.

你的耳朵是不是一直开着？

Like, are you are your ears always on?

是的。

Yes.

我的耳朵一直开着。

My ears are always on.

但在餐厅里，我通常会努力过滤掉所有的噪音。

Though at restaurants, I'm usually trying to filter out all of the noise.

不过当我日常生活中，比如开门时发出奇怪的吱呀声，我会想：好了，得拿上设备录下来。

But when I'm just going about my daily life, you know, if I I open a door and it creaks in a weird way, I think, okay, gotta go grab my rig, record that.

如果院子里出现了一只珍稀鸟类，我也得拿上设备录下来。

If there's an exotic bird that shows up in my yard, gotta get the rig, record that.

我这份工作的一个不错的好处是，它确实能提升你对生活体验的敏感度。

One of the nice benefits of my job is it does kind of open up your awareness to experience.

所以我总是努力留意周围的声音动态，至于如何将这些声音用在电影里，可以以后再考虑。

And so I'm I try to always be aware of what is happening sonically around me and then maybe worry later about how I might be able to use that in a movie.

那我们来聊聊你的其中一部电影，《星际救援》。

Well, let's talk about one of your movies, Project Hail Mary.

我们得谈谈外星人罗基的声音。

We have to talk about the alien Rocky's voice.

嗯。

Mhmm.

正如我所说，我对这个话题着迷得不行。

As I said, this is like a thing I'm obsessed with.

对于没看过这部电影的人，这里听听罗基用他的母语说出自己的名字。

So for people who haven't seen it, here is Rocky saying his name in his native tongue.

这声音真美。

It's beautiful.

是的。

Yeah.

那个场景是我最享受的片段之一，因为罗基第一次用他的伊拉迪安名字称呼格雷斯医生。

And and and that scene, that's one of my most enjoyable little moments because Rocky is saying his Iridian name for the first time to doctor Grace.

然后格雷斯医生问他，你知道，我的名字是什么？

And then doctor Grace asks him, well, you know, what's my name?

你该怎么称呼格雷斯呢？

What's your name for Grace?

那就像一个打嗝一样，你知道的？

And it's just like a burp, you know?

所以罗基对自己的称呼要复杂得多。

So Rocky has a much more elaborate version of himself.

克里斯·米勒和菲尔·洛德执导这个场景时，要求呈现一种既美丽又自豪的感觉。

And and and the way that was directed by Chris Miller and Phil Lord was they asked for something that that was sort of beautiful and proud.

你可以想象他在说：我是来自XYZ地区粗糙山丘的罗基。

And you could imagine he's saying, you know, I am Rocky from the boulder, rough textured hills of X Y Z.

这是一种很长的、类似头衔的表达方式。

You know, like, it's a it's a long kind of, epithet.

所以，但没错，那个时刻很有趣，他能够展现出自己的丰富表达。

So, but, yeah, that was that was a fun moment where he could kinda open up with, with his expressiveness.

我们能再听一遍吗？

Can we hear it one more time?

好的。

Okay.

明显是多层次的。

Clearly multilayered.

那个声音里包含了哪些音效？

What sounds are in there making up that voice?

那么，我们从低频到高频来分析一下。

So so let's go from the lower frequencies to the higher frequencies.

那个基础音调是迪吉里杜管，它构成了我们的基础音符。

So the base kind of note there is a didgeridoo, and that's creating kind of our base notes.

这就是我们为那段音效所演奏的内容。

And so that's what we performed for that.

当你进入更咕噜的层次时，里面有一些座头鲸的声音。

And when you get into the more gurgling layer, there's some humpback whale.

还有一些鸟类的声音。

There's also some avian species.

有一类鸟叫画眉，它们的歌声极其优美。

And one of my there's a class of birds, thrushes, that have just the most beautiful song.

我们刚才听到的用于罗基名字的声音，来自一种独唱鸟。

And that sound that we just heard for Rocky's name has a solitaire bird.

我们把它放慢了几个八度，使其进入更适合人耳聆听的音乐音域。

And we slowed it down to get it into by a couple of octaves to get it into a more musical register that works better for the human ear.

这就是罗基为自己名字所设定的旋律核心。

And, that's the kind of melodic center of Rocky's name for himself.

他的发声中还用了其他什么元素吗？

Were there any other ingredients that you used in his vocalizations?

在大多数平静的交流中，我们使用了奥卡里纳笛。

For most of his communication, when he's calm, we used an ocarina.

那是什么？

What is that?

就像这样，你

It's like this you

吹一下。

play it.

这是一种简单的管乐器，听起来有点像这样。

It's a simple wind instrument, and it sounds kinda like this.

而且这个音高是可以调整的。

And that could be pitched.

我们以192千赫的高分辨率录制，远高于人耳可听范围，然后可以将其慢放而不损失任何保真度，使其落入一个美妙的五到六个八度的音域。

You know, we record it high resolutions, 192 kilohertz, way above human hearing range, and we can slow it down without losing any fidelity into a nice five, six octave range.

他有时会对格雷斯医生变得有点不耐烦、焦躁甚至恼火。

He does get a little bit impatient and more agitated and or annoyed with doctor Grace.

为此，我们使用了次女高音单簧管，它的音色更有一种……有点像动物的声音，而且

And for that, we used contralto clarinet, which has a nice, like, a little bit more you don't you know, it sounds like an animal, but and and

它更有棱角。

it's more edge.

再增加一点棱角，带点沙哑感。

A little more edge to it, a little rasp to it.

你知道吗，这挺有趣的。

You know, it's funny.

对于某些声音，你可以闭上眼睛，就能给它贴上标签，比如，这个声音听起来很烦躁，或者这个声音听起来很满足。

With certain sounds, you can close your eyes and you can put a label to it like, oh, that sound sounds annoyed, or that sound sounds content.

你知道吧？

You know?

这支单簧管听起来很烦躁。

That clarinet is annoyed.

它有点小脾气。

It's a little pissy.

太神奇了。

It's amazing.

我的意思是，做这份工作简直就像必须同时成为野生动物生物学家和多种乐器的音乐家。

I mean, it's almost like you have to be a wildlife biologist and also a musician of many instruments to do this job.

我是个音乐家，大学时主修了生物学和电影学。

I am a I am a musician, and I did double major in biology and cinema in college.

这确实看得出来。

It really does show.

我的意思是，这个配方是怎么组合起来的？

I mean, how does the recipe come together?

比如，当你在创作洛克西的那种语言或发声时，你会不会想，天啊，我需要一点座头鲸的声音来真正完成它。

Like, when you're putting together Rocky's sort of, you know, language or vocalizations, are you like, oh, man, I need a pinch of humpback whale to really, you know, complete this.

这像做饭一样吗？还是别的什么？

Is it like cooking or is it something different?

是的。

Yeah.

这有点像做饭。

It's a little bit like cooking.

这有点像编织。

It's a little bit like knitting.

我觉得这有点像绘画，你知道的，颜色就是频率。

And I think of it a little bit like painting, you know, colors being frequencies.

你需要非常精确地选择使用哪些声波频率，因为就像绘画一样，很容易变得浑浊。

And you try to be very specific with what sound frequencies you use because like painting, it can very quickly become muddy.

理想的状态是简洁。

The ideal is simplicity.

你知道，如果你能简单而有力，那就是理想的状态。

You know, if you can be simple and bold, that's kind of the ideal.

所以首先，我们想弄清楚他的声音是什么样的。

So first, we wanted to just figure out what is his voice.

你知道，声音传达的是灵魂和精神。

You know, the the voice conveys the soul and the and the spirit.

一旦确定了这一点，我们就深入研究了他的伊里迪安语，我们希望做到准确无误。

And then once that was figured out, then we got into the nitty gritty of his Iridian language, which, we wanted to be accurate with.

我们希望这一部分的‘睡眠’一词与后面出现的‘睡眠’保持一致，但上下文可能不同。

We wanted the word for sleep in this section to be consistent with sleep later, but there might be a different context.

因此，根据上下文的不同，它的表达可能会更强烈、更平静、更快或更慢。

And so it might be performed a little bit more intensely or a little bit more calmly or quickly or slower depending on the context.

天啊。

So Oh my gosh.

所以这种语言在整个过程中是一致的。

So the language is actually consistent throughout.

这种语言是一致的。

The language is consistent.

更正。

Correction.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

他那里有大约250个为洛奇设计的台词。

He's got there's about 250 scripted words for Rocky.

所以那些想要进行声音法医分析的侦探们，可能花上一年时间也难以完全解析这些内容。

So the sleuths out there who wanna go do some forensic sound examinations can probably spend a year trying to parse all that out.

嗯，正如你所说，声音让洛奇活了起来，这是电影中非常重要的一部分。

Well, you you like you said, the sound brings Rocky to life, and it's a huge part of the movie.

我认为，对我来说，声音占了电影体验的一半。

I I think it's it's to me, it's half of the cinematic experience.

你知道，我们既用眼睛，也用耳朵。

You know, we use our eyes and we use our ears.

某种程度上，我们的耳朵能以更潜移默化的方式更强烈地操控情绪。

And in a way, our ears can manipulate emotion more powerfully in a more subliminal way.

你这么认为吗？

You think so?

我觉得是的。

I think so.

我的意思是，你知道的，声音作用于我们大脑的方式是，它先经过延髓，然后再到达听觉皮层。

I mean, well, you know, just just the way sound works on on our brains is it goes through our medulla oblongata first before it hits the auditory cortex.

而正是在这里，你才会感受到音高、声源定位和声音强度等特性。

And and that's where you get things like pitch and localization and sound level power intensity.

这些都是在有意识思考之前的反应。

That's all pre thought.

你明白吗？

You know?

一位杰出的电影人曾说过，声音像是从后门进来，而画面则是从前门进来。

A a brilliant filmmaker once said that sound kinda comes in through the back door and images come in through the front door.

某种程度上，这让我们拥有巨大的能力去表达和唤起观众的情感。

And in a way, that gives us a lot of power over how how to express emotion and evoke emotion in an audience.

所以是的。

So yeah.

我们得休息一下，但回来后，我们必须聊聊你参与过的另一个经典电影生物的配音。

We have to take a break, but when we come back, we have to talk about another iconic movie creature vocalization that you hooked up.

你懂的，你懂的。

If you know, you know.

你知道吗？在NPR获得金球奖提名的晨间新闻播客《Up First》中，我们每天为您带来三条关键新闻。

You know, every day on Up First, NPR's Golden Globe nominated morning news podcast, We bring you three essential stories.

每条新闻的核心都是问题。

At the heart of each story are questions.

到底发生了什么？

What really happened?

真正重要的是什么？

What really mattered?

接下来会发生什么？

What happens next?

在NPR，我们捍卫您求知和追寻事实的权利。

At NPR, we stand for your right to be curious and to follow the facts.

无论您在哪个平台收听播客，都请关注《Up First》，让您在每天开始时了解什么是重要的以及为什么重要。

Follow up first wherever you get your podcasts and start your day knowing what matters and why.

我们来聊聊哥斯拉吧。

Let's talk about Godzilla.

好的。

Okay.

让我们回到1954年。

So let's go back to 1954.

这是原始的哥斯拉吼声。

This is the original Godzilla roar.

经典。

Classic.

标志性。

Iconic.

是的。

Yeah.

埃里克，你被委派为2014年电影重新设计哥斯拉的吼声。

Erik, you were tasked with making an updated Godzilla roar for the 2014 movie.

因为这是一部标志性的电影，拥有一个标志性的声音，你觉得压力很大吗？

Because it's an iconic movie and an iconic sound, did it feel like a lot of pressure?

嗯，确实有压力，你知道的，因为这是电影史上的一个经典片段。

Well, yeah, there's pressure to it, you know, because it it's a piece of cinema history.

而且它如此经典，只要你在全球任何地方播放这个声音，人们闭上眼睛就知道那是哥斯拉。

And and it's so iconic that you can play that sound anywhere around the world and people close their eyes and they know that's Godzilla.

所以我们必须向它致敬。

So we definitely needed to pay homage to that.

导演加雷斯·爱德华兹说，我们其实不能直接使用1954年的原始录音。

And and the director, Gareth Edwards, he was like, you know, the we can't really use that 1954 recording.

当你在影院里播放那段录音时，听起来会有点过时。

When you put that in a theater, it's sounds kinda old.

它有点复古了。

It's a little vintage y.

有点陈旧了。

A little dusty.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

有点陈旧。

A little dusty.

那么，用我们七十多年后的技术，该怎么做呢？

How do we do that, you know, with the technology we have seventy years later?

于是这导致了四个月的实验。

And so that that led into four months of experimenting.

哇。

Wow.

我希望创造一种声音，像一首赞歌一样，能充满整个影院的杜比全景声环境，我的标准总是：我有没有起鸡皮疙瘩？

And I wanted a sound that just felt like an anthem that I could fill the theater with in Dolby Atmos and just, you know, my barometer is always, am I getting goosebumps or not?

如果没有，我就想，好吧。

And if I don't, I'm like, okay.

我需要继续实验，不断尝试新的东西。

I need to keep experimenting and keep trying stuff.

有时候，这个过程的运作方式非常偶然。

And it and it sometimes it's very serendipitous how this works.

有一些意外的惊喜，并非有意为之。

There's happy accidents that weren't intentional.

为了尝试一些不同的东西，我当时正在录制

And for something, you know, different, I was recording a

很多

lot

用干冰录制各种声音。

of different sounds using dry ice.

所以你基本上是在处理固态的二氧化碳气体。

So you've got basically frozen carbon dioxide gas.

它非常冷，可以用来接触不同的金属。

It's very cold and you can use it against different metals.

通常来说，金属是最适合用来接触干冰的材料。

Usually metals are the most interesting things to apply to dry ice.

在拟音台上，我有一个六英尺长的圆筒。

And on the Foley stage, had this six foot long cylinder.

那是一段空调风管，我把它放在一块干冰上面。

It was a piece of, like, air conditioning ducting and just put that on top of this block of dry ice.

它开始共振，因为干冰让金属冷却，金属因此凝结并随之振动。

And it started resonating and you know, because the dry ice is cooling the metal, the the metal is now condensing and vibrating in doing so.

这种振动开始推动空气。

And that vibration starts to push air.

它竟然发出了类似鲸鱼的声音。

And it just started doing this whale.

我想，好吧。

And I thought, okay.

等等。

Wait.

好了。

There we are.

这就是我可以作为新咆哮核心素材的东西，希望它能成功转化。

That's that I can use as sort of the central ingredient for the new roar, and hopefully, it translated.

我们来听听。

Let's hear it.

而且，你知道，这挺有趣的。

And, you know, it is funny.

他在咆哮前的吸气声，其实是大象用鼻子喷气的声音。

The inhale before he does the roar is that's an elephant blowing through his trunk.

那是迈克尔·杰克逊以前养的大象Beau和她的伙伴Susie，她们现在生活在加利福尼亚州兰开斯特的一处保护区。

And it it was Michael Jackson's former elephant, Beau, and her partner Susie, who were are now living on a refuge in Lancaster, California.

让大象吹喇叭的方法是，因为它们开心时才会吹喇叭，所以就带它们去池塘。

And the way you get elephants to trumpet, they trumpet when they're happy, is to let them go to the pond.

所以它们在发出声音时几乎是狂奔过去的。

And so they were basically stampeding when they did that.

所以关键是要用合适的麦克风收音，避免录到树枝断裂的声音，而是捕捉到干净清晰的象鸣声，或者象鼻那种粗糙的声音。

And so the trick is to mic them in a way where you're not hearing tree branches snapping and, you know, get a nice clean trumpeting sound and or or trunk, you know, raspy trunk sounds.

所以

So

你当时只是说，嗨？

Were you just like, hi.

我需要一声‘嗨’。

I need hi.

你好，大象保护区。

Hello elephant sanctuary.

我必须来给你们的大象录音。

I I must come mic your mic your elephant.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我们的一个助手联系了他们，然后他们完全投入进来了。

One of our assistants reached out, and then they were totally into it.

是的。

So yep.

好的。

Okay.

在我们开始之前，我想和我们的听众玩个游戏。

Before we go, I wanna play a game with our listeners.

我们

We're

要

gonna

播放一段特伦斯·马利克电影《生命之树》中的声音。

play a sound from the Terrence Malick movie, The Tree of Life.

这个特定的声音是宇宙膨胀的声音，顺便说一句，听起来也像一项艰巨的任务。

And this particular sound is the sound of the universe expanding, which also sounds like a hard assignment, just as an aside.

好的。

And okay.

所有在听的朋友们，我想让你们想想这个声音可能是什么。

Everybody listening, I want you to think about what this sound could be.

这是幽灵吗，埃里克？

Is it a ghost, Erik?

我还没能录到过幽灵。

I have not been able to record a ghost yet.

但是确实如此。

But yeah.

所以，《生命之树》整部影片的前二十分钟，基本上是在展现宇宙从最初、从大爆炸开始，到恒星和行星的形成，再到地球生命在不同时期的演化。

So for so for the entire real two of the tree of life is kind of a twenty minute us witnessing evolution of the universe from the very beginning and from the Big Bang through creation of stars and planets and evolution of life on Earth through different periods.

显然，在太空中，我们面对的是真空环境。

And obviously, in space, there were working with a vacuum.

因此，在太空中使用声音，更多是为了营造一种氛围。

So using sound in space there was more to create a feeling.

这并不一定是为了字面意义上的表达。

It wasn't necessarily intended to be literal.

它更多是为了唤起一种广阔、神秘，或许还有孤独的感觉。

It was more to evoke kind of vastness and mystery and maybe loneliness.

特伦斯·马利克曾让我们追随直觉，看看会怎样。

And Terence Malik had kind of asked us to just go with your instincts, and we'll we'll see.

我并没有告诉他那是什么声音。

And I did not tell him what it was.

他问了我。

He asked me.

多年来，我学到了这一点。

And I I've learned this over many years.

告诉导演声音的具体来源并不总是明智的，因为声音是一种非常抽象的艺术。

It's not always a good idea to tell a director what the sound is, you know, because sound is it's a very abstract art.

你常常使用与屏幕上视觉内容毫无关联的东西，而这正是声音的可塑性和表现力所在——你可以非常抽象地运用它。

You're often using something that has nothing to do with what you're witnessing visually on screen, and that's that's part of the malleability of sound and the expressiveness of sound is you can be very abstract with it.

他说，好吧。

And he said, well, okay.

在完成之前别告诉我，但我得给它命名。

Don't tell me until we're done, but I'm gonna name it.

他把这个声音命名为永恒的寂静。

And he named that the sound of eternal silence.

所以这算是我个人觉得最完美的例子了。

So that's one of my personal it's perfect.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，有时候你需要一位诗人来为声音赋予文字，因为声音很难描述。

I mean, sometimes you need a a poet to apply words to sounds because sounds can be very hard to describe.

所以我觉得这非常富有诗意。

So I thought that was very poetic.

当我们完成之后，我告诉他这声音是什么，那是我对着麦克风呼吸的声音。

And, when we were done, I told him what it was, and that was me breathing into a microphone.

有时候，答案就在你眼前，或者就在字面意义上。

Sometimes the answer's right in front of you or in Literally.

谢谢你所做的一切，埃里克。

Thank you for what you do, Erik.

嗯，谢谢你愿意听。

Well, thank you for listening.

埃里克·阿达尔，许多你喜爱电影的声音编辑与设计师，同时也是《科学星期五》的听众。

Erik Aadahl, the sound editor and designer behind many of your favorite movies and apparently a science Friday listener.

本集由凯瑟琳·戴维斯制作。

This episode was produced by Kathleen Davis.

如果你喜欢这个播客的声音，或者觉得哪里听起来不对劲，或者你本人也是某些你最爱电影的声音设计师，那就给我们打电话告诉我们吧。

And if you liked the sound of this podcast or maybe something didn't sound right or maybe you too are a sound designer behind some of our favorite movies, call us and let us know.

8774 8774 我们下次再会。

8774 8774 We'll catch you next time.

我是弗洛拉·利希特曼。

I'm Flora Lichtman.

《科学星期五》每周为数百万充满好奇心的听众带来发现的乐趣。

Science Friday brings the joy of discovery to millions of curious listeners every week.

赞助《科学星期五》，您将与一群重视知识、探索与学习的忠实听众建立联系。

When you sponsor Science Friday, you connect with a dedicated audience that values knowledge, exploration, and learning.

这些听众热爱深入细节，积极思考各种观点，并珍视可信的信息。

These are folks who love getting into the details, who actively engage with ideas, and who value trustworthy information.

了解更多，请访问 sponsorship.wnyc.org。

Learn more at sponsorship.wnyc.org.