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你好。
Hi.
我是温迪·祖克曼，欢迎收听《科学面对面》。
I'm Wendy Zukerman, and you're listening to Science Faces.
这是一档用事实对抗手机的节目。
This is the show that pits facts against phones.
今天节目中，我们来聊聊怎么才能停止刷手机。
Today on the show, how do we stop scrolling?
就在上周，一起具有里程碑意义的案件裁定，拥有Instagram的Meta和拥有YouTube的谷歌，因故意设计出让人上瘾的产品，严重损害了年轻女性的心理健康，负有重大过失。
Just last week, in a landmark case, Meta, which owns Instagram and Google, owner of YouTube, were found negligent for basically creating addictive products that harmed young women's mental health.
今天这对科技巨头来说是个沉重的打击。
A huge slap to big tech today.
这一判决可能彻底改变社交媒体的面貌。
A landmark verdict that could change the face of social media.
他们故意且疏忽地设计产品，就是为了让年轻用户沉迷其中。
Deliberately and negligently designed their products to get young users hooked on the apps.
他们让她不停地刷屏，不断推送通知，算法精准掌握什么能让你一直看下去。
They kept her endless scrolling, constant notifications, algorithms that learn exactly what keeps you watching.
这些科技巨头被判决赔偿她六百万美元。
The tech giants have been ordered to pay her $6,000,000.
他们正在上诉。
Appealing.
但这个案子重新点燃了人们对这些应用如何轻易把人吸进去的广泛讨论。
But this case has reignited a huge conversation over how these apps can just suck us in.
这位年轻女性的律师在结案陈词中说，这些应用就像是特洛伊木马。
The young woman's lawyer said during closing arguments that these apps are, quote, Trojan horses.
它们看起来美好又吸引人，可你一放它们进来，它们就全面接管你的生活——抛开这个案子不谈，这正是很多听众对这些应用的真实感受。
They look wonderful and great, but you invite them in and they take over, which away from this case is exactly the way that a lot of our listeners have been feeling about these apps.
我当然也想少用手机，跟其他人一样。
I want to use my phone less, obviously, like everyone else.
过去两年我一直在努力戒掉。
I've been trying to quit for the last two years.
情况越来越糟了。
It has gotten worse.
我想停止刷手机。
I want to stop do scrolling.
我总觉得一直在盯着屏幕看东西。
This feels like I'm constantly consuming something off of a screen.
调查显示，美国超过一半的成年人希望减少使用手机的时间。
Surveys find that over half of adults in The US wanna spend less time on their phones.
我不用社交媒体的时候，心理状态明显更好，但就是很难摆脱刷屏的习惯。
My mental health is just better when I'm off social media, and it's hard to get out of the scrolling.
所以本期节目的问题是：
So the question we have for this episode is this.
既然这么多人觉得自己上瘾了，有没有办法摆脱这种刷屏的冲动？
Given that so many of us feel hooked, is there any way to unhook ourselves to stop scrolling?
讽刺的是，网上到处都有人声称自己找到了解决办法。
Rather ironically, online, you can find tons of people claiming that they've found the answer.
这里有五个非常简单的心理小技巧，能帮你摆脱社交媒体成瘾，停止无休止地刷屏。
These are five really simple brain tricks that can help you break social media addiction and stop doomscrolling.
第一个方法叫增加操作阻力。
The first tip is friction stacking.
我们要在自己和那该死的手机之间，设置重重障碍。
We need to create as many layers between us and that damn phone.
如果你能战胜这个诱惑，能抵抗住手机的吸引，那你就没什么做不到的。
And if you can slay that dragon, if you can resist temptation, well, you can do anything.
那到底该怎么战胜这个诱惑呢？
So how do you slay that dragon?
有没有什么真正科学有效的方法，能让我们放下手机？
Is there anything that can actually get us off our phones that's science approved?
说到刷屏，很多人整天都在无休止地刷，不断收到通知。
When it comes to scrolling, a lot of us have been Endless scrolling, constant notifications.
而这时候，科学就派上用场了。
And then there's science.
科学对抗刷屏
Science versus scrolling.
广告结束后马上回来
We'll be right back just after the break.
别看你的手机
Don't look at your phone.
欢迎回来
Welcome back.
现在很多人都在讨论，这些科技巨头设计的社交媒体应用，就是为了把我们牢牢吸住
There's a lot of chat right now about how these tech giants have created social media apps designed to suck us in.
接下来我们要聊聊怎么摆脱这种依赖
Now we're gonna talk about how to get unsucked.
现在有请高级制作人梅瑞尔·霍恩，带我们了解科学原理
Time for the science with Meryl Horn, senior producer.
你好
Hello.
嗨，温迪。
Hi, Wendy.
我们好久没聊科学了。
It's been a while since we've been chatting about science.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
确实很久了。
It has.
那你最近是不是一直在玩手机？
So have you been spending all that time on your phone?
有时候感觉还真是这样。
Sometimes it feels like that.
说真的，你觉得你是不是有点刷手机上瘾？
Seriously, do do you have a problem with scrolling, do you think?
是的。
Yeah.
我之所以想做这一期，是因为我发现自己经常盯着手机看，时间远超原本打算的，尤其是晚上快睡觉的时候。
The the reason I wanted to do this episode was because I'd I'd find myself, like, just staring at my phone for way longer than I kind of meant to, especially at the end of the day.
而且，根本感觉不到开心，反而挺难受的。
And, like, it wouldn't it wouldn't even feel, like, good.
我常常看完之后，对自己生活更不满意，整个人情绪很低落，可还是忍不住一直刷、一直刷。
Like, I would often feel, like, worse about my life or just crappy in general, and yet I'd spend all this time, you know, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.
对。
Yeah.
这种感觉其实很多人都有，想想看，这种情绪居然这么普遍，真有点不可思议。
And, you know, this is a feeling that many of us have had, and it is it's kind of crazy to think about how pervasive this feeling is.
所以，梅瑞尔，说到怎么戒掉刷手机，我们该从哪儿开始呢？
So, Meryl, when it comes to this question of how do we stop scrolling, I mean, where do we begin?
首先，研究发现，相比手机上的其他活动，刷屏本身带来的负面影响尤其严重。
Well, first off, the research does find that scrolling itself is especially bad compared to other things we do on our phones.
好的。
Okay.
有一项研究问了人们，使用手机做不同事情之后感觉如何，研究人员甚至能监控他们具体在用手机做什么。
So, like, one one study asked people, like, how they felt after doing different things on their phones, and the researchers could spy on them to see, like, exactly what they were using their phones for.
结果发现，确实，人们最后悔的就是刷屏，相比之下，和朋友聊天或者获取信息这些事他们没那么后悔。
And they found that, yeah, it was, like, the scrolling that people said they regretted the most compared to stuff like communicating with their friends or, like, getting information.
是的。
Yeah.
你还能从他们对某些应用的后悔程度看出来这一点。
You could also see this in how much they regretted going on certain apps.
比如，用完Instagram之后，有42%的时间他们会后悔，而用聊天应用时，只有18%的时间会后悔。
Like, after they went on Instagram, they would say, that, I regretted that, like, 42% of the time, where when they went on messaging app, they only regretted it 18% of the time.
嗯。
Uh-huh.
另一项研究也证实了这一点，只是它关注的是‘空虚感’——结果同样发现，人们刷屏后觉得更空虚，相比之下，做其他事情就没那么明显，这让我明白了为什么刷屏之后会这么难受。
And another study backed this up, finding something really similar, but this one looked at meaninglessness instead, which, you know, again, found that people said their experience was more meaningless if they had just spent that time scrolling compared to this other stuff, which helped me understand, like, why it feels so bad.
但既然这样，你觉得我们为什么还是停不下来呢？
But then why do we keep doing it, do you think?
因为刷手机确实经常能带来一些短暂的快乐。
Because it's like, it does give us some kind of, like, short term happiness a lot of the time to scroll.
我们之所以这么做，就是因为刷社交媒体时，大脑里那些在获得奖励时会活跃的区域，会释放多巴胺。
The whole reason we do it is because we're probably getting some kind of, you know, dopamine hits or, you know, those the parts of our brain that light up when we're doing something rewarding or do light up when we, like, see social media.
明白了。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
所以这就是为什么我们会不断回头再刷的原因。
So that I mean, that is why, yeah, we keep going back for more.
那接下来会发生什么呢？
So then, you know, what what happens next?
我们该怎么停下来？
How do we stop?
而且说实话，我不觉得解决这个问题的全部责任都该落在我们自己身上。
And, you know, I don't want to completely put the onus on us to work out how to unsuck ourselves from social media.
大型科技公司显然也负有责任。
The big tech companies clearly have a role to play here.
但在他们做出改变之前，贝丽尔，你有什么建议是我们自己可以做的吗？
But while we're waiting for them to sort it out, Beryl, do you have anything that we can do for ourselves?
有。
I do.
当然有。
Yes.
那我们来具体看看，到底有哪些方法真的能帮我们减少刷屏。
So let's dive in and find out, like, what actually works here to to stop scrolling.
首先，我们来认识一下金载正。
So to start, let's meet Jaejeung Kim.
他是韩国忠南大学的助理教授。
He's an assistant professor at Chungnam National University in Korea.
他本人也深受刷视频的困扰。
He's also had a problem with scrolling.
对他来说，YouTube 最容易让他停不下来。
For him, YouTube is the thing that would get him.
我一直在看，不停地看。
I kept on watching, watching
没错。
Mhmm.
结果最后看的，完全不是我本来想看的东西。
And I end up watching something that I never intended.
他就这样被拽进一个个无底洞里。
He just gets sucked down these rabbit holes.
是啊。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
科学家也是普通人。
Scientists are people too.
没错。
Yep.
但他做了大量研究，想搞清楚到底哪些方法真的能帮人戒掉这个习惯。
But he has done a lot of work, trying to figure out, like, exactly what strategies work to stop.
就是，人该怎么摆脱这些成瘾行为？
Like, how can people break these habits?
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
对。
Yeah.
所以我打算先讲讲他提出的最极端的一种干预方式。
And so I wanted to start with the most hardcore intervention that he's come up with.
你猜猜看，他们用了什么办法来帮人停止刷视频？
Do you wanna guess what they did to help people stop scrolling?
把应用删了。
Delete the apps.
把手机扔进抽屉里。
Put your phone in the bin.
买台两千年初的那种诺基亚。
Buy a Nokia from the early two thousands.
猜得不错。
Nice guesses.
其实也没那么极端吧。
I guess it wasn't it wasn't that extreme in a way.
这些都不算离谱。
None of these are crazy.
没多少人会愿意参加这种得扔掉手机的研究吧。
Well, not too many people would sign up for a study, don't think, where they had to, like, get rid of their phones.
我愿意。
I would.
Jaejeung，如果你想要更极端一点，我也愿意参加。
Jaejeung, if you wanna go even more extreme, I'll sign up.
好的。
Okay.
那他们是怎么做的？
So what did they do?
他的办法是开发一个应用，能把你强制推出手机。
So his approach was to, just make an app that would kick you off your phone.
如果你用超了设定的时间，手机就只能用来打电话，其他功能全禁用。
If you go past a certain time limit, then you couldn't use your phone for anything except to make phone calls.
好的。
Okay.
所以，一开始大概有四十个人参与。
So, yeah, first, you know, there's about 40 people.
首先，你要申报自己希望每天在手机上花多少时间。
And first, you had to put in your goals for how long you wanna spend on your phone.
比如你每天用手机五个小时，想减少到四小时。
So, like, maybe you're using it for five hours a day and you wanna get down to four hours a day.
然后你就用上这个特别的App。
Then you got this special app.
它叫Goalkeeper，有三个不同的级别。
It's called Goalkeeper, and it had three different levels.
有些人只选最简单的级别，其实就是个提醒，超时了就弹个警告。
So sometimes people would just get the easy levels, basically a control where you just get a warning message when you go past your time limit.
另一个级别是超时后会暂时把你锁出手机。
And another one, you just get kicked off your phone for a little bit of time.
但第三个级别就特别严格了。
But in the third level is is the intense one.
Jaejeung把这种情况叫做强力锁定。
So Jaejeung called this condition a strong lockout.
对。
Mhmm.
那种严格锁定机制才是我特别感兴趣的。
And the strong lockout is what I was very interested.
我特别想把人彻底锁在外面。
I was I'm eager to lock people out.
你就只是想让人受罪吗？
Just because you wanna make people suffer?
是的。
Yeah.
我想看看效果最明显的情况。
I want wanna see the greatest effect.
所以我们把他们锁在外面，直到超过使用时间后的午夜。
So we locked them out until the midnight after the time exceeded.
有意思的是，他说手机到午夜才会重新开放，就像灰姑娘的魔法一样，可这恰恰是用手机最糟糕的时刻。
That it's interesting that he said it'll come back on at midnight like Cinderella because that would be the worst time to then get access to your phone.
这会直接打断你的睡眠。
It's gonna interrupt with your sleep.
至少也别开到早上八点以后吧。
At least just keep it off until 8AM or something.
确实如此。
That's true.
但那样的话，人们第二天就会把时间全耗在手机上了。
But then people will be eating up their time for the next day.
哦，明白了。
So Oh.
是的。
Yeah.
很多人都很清楚自己手机还剩多少使用时间。
There were people were very aware of, like, how much time they had left on their phone.
嗯，这样。
Okay.
所以每个人都在这一周里试了不同级别的使用限制。
And so every everyone tried out these, like, kinda different levels of the app for for one week.
我一开始就想了解，当人们采用这种非常严格的锁定模式时，到底发生了什么。
And I I first wanted to know, yeah, what happened when people were in this the week when they had the really hardcore approach, the strong lockout.
首先，我们来看看，这种方法有没有成功减少人们的手机使用时间？
First, let's just look at, did it work to get people to use their phones less?
有。
Yes.
确实减少了。
It did.
是的。
Yes.
确实有效。
It did.
效果相当明显。
It's quite effective.
所以，没错，人们每天的手机使用时间平均减少了大约七十五分钟。
So, yeah, people, did use their phones for roughly seventy five minutes less every day.
从这个角度看，它是有效的。
So in that sense, it worked.
对。
Yeah.
但问题是，很多人其实很反感这种方式，至少很多时候是这样。
But then the caveat was that people really didn't like it, at least a lot of the time.
他们说，自己感到更烦躁、更被强迫，相比之下，对照组只是收到一点提醒，并没有被强制锁机。
Like, they they said they felt more frustrated and coerced compared to the control condition where they were just getting a little warning, but they didn't actually get locked out of their phone.
而且，当他们看到时间快到要被切断时，压力特别大。
And then they got really stressed out when they saw that the time was getting close to when they would have to get cut off.
是的。
Yes.
说的就是这个意思。
That's the point.
没错。
Yeah.
但我觉得让人烦的是，我们用手机干的事情太多了。
But I think the thing that was frustrating was that we use our phones for a lot of different things.
对吧？
Right?
当然了。
Of course.
没错。
Yes.
所以一旦被完全锁住，什么都用不了，真的挺让人抓狂的。
So when we get locked out of everything altogether, it can be really annoying.
是啊。
Yes.
这招太狠了。
It's a big stick.
这招太狠了。
It's a big stick.
没错。
That's right.
有时候你虽然不上Instagram，但工作一堆事要处理，诸如此类的。
And there can be days where you're off Instagram, but you got a lot of work stuff to do, blah blah blah.
你还在出差。
You're traveling.
想听一堆播客，结果发现……
You wanna listen to a bunch of podcasts, and then you've
连坐地铁都要付钱。
You just wanna, like, pay for the subway.
我手机上干的都是这些事。
Like, I do all the sorts of things with my phone.
我不想完全被挡在外面。
I don't wanna be locked out altogether.
对。
Yeah.
我还想跟你聊聊另一个特别严格的实验，嗯。
And then there's one other super kind of hardcore study I wanted to tell you about Mhmm.
既然你对参加那种必须彻底放下手机的实验感兴趣，
Since you're interested in, you know, signing up for a study yourself where you just have to, like, get rid of your phone.
我认识一位研究者，他设计了一个实验，想让参与者两周内完全断开手机的网络连接。
So I talked to this researcher who set up the study where they wanted to cut the Internet off people's phones for two weeks.
但到了真正要开始实验、下载那个断网应用的时候，很多人却临阵退缩了。
But then when it was actually time to to start the experiments, and download this app that cut off the Internet, a ton of people didn't actually go through with it.
是的。
Yeah.
超过四成的人，虽然报了名，但根本没下载那个应用。
So more than 40% of them just didn't even get the app even though they signed up for the study.
就连那些下了应用的人，也有很多人偷偷作弊。
And then even a bunch of people who got the app kept cheating.
他们一遍又一遍地重新打开网络，整个实验期间都在反复这样做。
They'd, like, re enable the Internet again and again and again during the study.
所以，尽管你可能觉得自己想要点极端的措施，但对很多人来说，他们其实并不真想这么做。
So even though you think you might want something super extreme, it seems like for a lot of people, they don't actually wanna do this.
明白了。
Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我能理解，我自己也可能搬起石头砸自己的脚，不管那句话怎么说的。
I could could see I could see myself falling on my own petard or whatever that phrase is.
石锤？
Petard?
炸弹？
Petard?
炸弹？
Petard?
我不太清楚。
I don't know.
我只是随便说说。
I'm just saying words.
我想那可能是一条面包。
I guess that's a loaf of bread.
所以也许我们应该反着来。
So maybe we should go in the opposite direction.
比如，如果我们只需要一个小小的提醒，轻轻推一下，就问自己一句：你现在真的想继续刷下去吗？
Like, if all we need to do to to stop scrolling is a little like reminder, like a gentle nudge, you know, something that that just asks us like, are you sure you want to be doing this right now?
对。
Uh-huh.
Jaejeung 也试过这种方法。
Jaejeung has also also tried this approach.
在另一项研究中，他开发了一个应用，当用户试图打开某些应用时，就会弹出一个小窗口，用户只需点一下按钮就能关闭它。
Like in a in a different study, he created an app where people would just get a little pop up window when they tried to open up certain apps, and and they could just get rid of this little pop up with a little click of the button.
是的。
Yes.
很多人已经用了类似的应用。
Quite a few people have apps similar to this.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我以前试过，因为 iPhone 自带一个屏幕使用时间应用，原理差不多。
I've tried this out before because the iPhone comes with, like, a screen time app that works similar to this.
嗯，没错。
Oh, yeah.
我一直很好奇，这种办法真的有效吗？
I have always wondered, does it does it actually work?
弹窗一出来，人很容易就点个‘是的，我就想这么做’，门槛太低了。
Because the the pop up comes on and it's quite a low hurdle to just say, yeah, this is what I wanna do.
对。
Yeah.
点忽略当然很简单，但至少能让你停顿一下。
It's easy to hit ignore, but it does give you that little notch.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yeah.
就是这样。
That's right.
所以，是这样的，Jaejeung 做了这项研究，先让参与者列出他们想限制使用的那些应用。
And so, yeah, he Jaejeung set up the study where first people had to put in a a list of apps that they wanted to, like, stop themselves from from going on to so much.
对。
Mhmm.
所以我们管它叫黑名单应用。
So we call it, like, the blacklist app.
比如Facebook、Instagram或者YouTube这类应用。
It could be, like, you know, Facebook, Instagram, or YouTube.
明白了。
Got it.
然后他研究了当人们看到这个小弹窗时会发生什么。
And then he he looked at what happened when people got this little pop up window.
他们会不会决定不再访问那些被拉黑的应用？
Did did they decide not to go onto those blacklisted apps?
使用时间减少了大约百分之十到十五。
It has, reduced the use about 10 to 15%.
就因为那个小小的弹窗，上面只问你：‘你确定要继续吗？’
Just from getting that little box that just says, do you wanna continue?
是还是不是？
Yes or no?
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
就是这个小提示让你停下来思考，重新考虑自己的使用习惯。
And that little stop have made you think and reconsider your use.
那类似的研究发现了什么？
So what have similar studies found?
这种温和的提醒普遍有效吗？
Does this gentle nudging work generally?
我们来看一下 Jaejeung 的研究。
We've got Jaejeung's study.
是的。
Yeah.
其他研究也发现，这种做法有时能像 Jaejeung 的研究那样有点效果，但还有很多研究根本没发现任何影响。
Other studies do find that it can work a little bit like Jaejeung's, but then a bunch of other studies didn't find any effects.
对。
Mhmm.
所以，我找了一份综述，把所有这些研究都综合起来看了。
So, yeah, I found a review that kinda looked at all these studies together.
总的来说，这份综述把这类策略称为‘效果微乎其微’。
And bottom line, it called this type of strategy, quote, barely effective.
明白了。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
这种做法太容易被忽视了。
It's just too easy to swat that fly away.
你确定吗？
You sure?
你真的确定吗？
You sure?
是的。
Yeah.
我很确定。
I'm sure.
我想继续用这个应用。
I wanna stay on the app.
我每次都自动忽略它。
I I just automatically ignore it every single time.
所以对我来说，它效果不好并不意外。
So for me, was it wasn't surprising that it doesn't work great.
明白了。
Okay.
所以我觉得，我们可能得把那个设置再调高一点了。
So I think, yeah, we probably we need to turn off the dial back up a little bit now.
对吧？
Right?
你知道吗，这类温和引导的方式，问题可能就在于缺乏足够的阻力。
Because, you know, maybe the problem with these kind of approaches, the gentle nudge, is that there's not enough, like, friction.
我不知道你有没有听说过这个说法。
So I don't know if you've heard of this.
现在网上挺流行一个词儿。
There's like a buzzword online right now.
网红们都说，要想不刷不停，就得增加点阻力。
Influencers are like, you know, to stop scrolling, you need to up the friction.
没错。
Right.
所以这个阻力啊，太强了不行，太弱了也不行。
So the the friction is too hot and the friction is too cold.
我们需要恰到好处的阻力，才能让自己不再刷手机。
We need the Goldilocks amount of friction to stop us from scrolling.
而且，我们的有些听众提到过这种做法，比如让使用应用变得更麻烦，对。
And, you know, some of our listeners mentioned this sort of approach, like making it harder to use their apps Mhmm.
他们当中有些人就曾在这些公司工作过。
As like, having worked for some of them.
我试过一个办法，效果还不错：把所有社交媒体应用都藏起来。
Now what I've tried and to pretty good success is hide all the social media apps on your phone.
这真的帮了我大忙。
That has really helped.
我还没找到什么一劳永逸的解决办法，但Brick这个应用对我特别有用。
I don't even found, like, a bullet solution, but the Brick app has really helped me.
Brick我最近老是看到广告。
The Brick is something it's I've been getting ads for it a ton.
它是个小设备，你得亲自走过去才能解锁手机里的应用。
It's like this little device that, like, you physically have to, like, go to to unlock your apps.
这有点贵。
That's sort of expensive.
还有更便宜的方法能达到同样的效果。
There's also cheaper ways to do the same thing.
有个叫《Touch Grass》的，你得走出去，拍张自己摸草的照片，才能解锁应用。
I there's one called Touch Grass where you have to, like, go outside and, like, take a picture of yourself touching grass before you could use your apps.
这招挺常见的，但咱们得看看，真有人这么做的时候，到底会发生什么。
So this is it's a really common strategy, but let's find out if it actually like, what actually happens when people try this.
好的。
So Okay.
在Jaejeung做的那个研究里，有些人把应用加入黑名单，还有些人则设置了更多障碍，让他们不容易打开这些应用。
In that study that Jaejeung did where, you know, people put in these blacklisted apps, In in other cases, they he made it harder for them to get to those apps.
他们没法随手一点就进去。
They couldn't just, you know, click it away.
明白了。
Okay.
人们会弹出一个窗口，必须输入一串数字才能打开应用。
People would get a pop up window where you had to enter in a string of numbers before you could go onto the app.
明白了。
Got it.
有时候只需要输入10位数字。
So sometimes it was only 10 digits long.
有时候则要手动输入长达30位的数字，才能用上应用。
Other times, it was a 30 digit long number that they had to, like, manually put in before they got to use their app.
我问过 Jaejeung，这种体验怎么样。
I asked Jaejeung what this was like.
特别让人烦躁。
Very frustrating.
我们的参与者提到，有个小细节。
And our participant mentioned that, oh, there's one little thing.
一旦你没一次性输对30位数字，就得重新输入。
Once you failed to input 30 digit number at once, you have to retype it.
你得从头再来一遍。
You start to start all over again.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的特别让人沮丧。
It's so it's very frustrating.
是的。
Yeah.
我刚才就在想，肯定会这样。
I was I was imagining that's what would happen.
这真的特别让人沮丧。
Very frustrating.
真的特别让人沮丧。
Very frustrating.
好吧。
Okay.
所以这肯定让你不想再用这个应用了，对吧？
So surely that stops you going on the app.
对吧？
Right?
感觉这就够了。
That feels like enough.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
在研究中，同样是大约四十个人，持续了几周，他观察了当这些人达到不同水平时会发生什么。
So in the study, again, around 40 people, a few weeks long, he looked at, like, what happened when these they got these different kind of levels.
尤其是当他们拿到那个30位数的时候，很多时候直接放弃了，觉得根本不值得费劲。
And, yeah, when they especially when they got the 30 digit number, a lot of the time, decided, I'm not even gonna bother.
对。
Yeah.
差不多有一半的时间，他们干脆说：算了，不玩了。
Almost half the time, they decided, like, yeah, f this.
用这个应用实在不值得。
It's not worth it to go on this app.
至于10位数的，效果也还行。
And the other the 10 digit number, like, worked okay too.
总的来说，这个方法确实让人们的使用频率降低了。
So overall, it did work to get people to stop going on their apps as much.
但这里有个挺大的前提需要注意。
But there is a pretty big caveat to this
好的。
Okay.
问题是，一旦人们进了应用，反而在里面待得比以前更久了。
Which is that once people were in the app, they then spent more time in it than they than they would have done otherwise.
哦。
Oh.
梅瑞尔，你明白这像什么吗？
You know what this is like, Meryl?
什么？
What?
就像人们在冰淇淋店排队时那样。
It's like when people are waiting in line at an ice cream shop.
等轮到他们了，却非要尝遍所有口味。
And then when they get to the front, they have to get all the freaking tasters.
慢慢挑。
To take their time.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
就是这样。
Exactly.
但我们还在排队呢，海瑟。
But we're still waiting in the line, Heather.
是的。
Yeah.
完全就是这么回事。
It's exactly like that.
后来怎么了？
What happened.
对啊。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
现在轮到Jaejeung了。
Now here's Jaejeung.
他们一旦进去了，我就想一次用三十分钟，而不是分三次，每次十分钟。
So they once they got in so hey, once I got in, I wanna use this for thirty minutes instead of like ten minute ten minute ten minute three times of ten minutes sessions.
哦。
Oh.
所以使用频率降低了，但总时长没变。
So so the frequency decreased, but the total time remained the same.
总的来说，人们在那些被屏蔽的应用上花的时间并没有减少。
So overall, people didn't actually spend less time on their blacklisted apps.
所以，我的意思是，这可能还是有帮助的。
So, like, I mean, maybe this is still helpful.
如果你的目标是减少频繁打开应用的习惯性查看，那这个方法还是有用的。
If your goal is to go on to your apps less often to, like, kind of do that checking, checking, like, habitual checking less.
展开剩余字幕（还有 307 条）
是的。
Yes.
但如果你的目标是减少使用手机的时间，这种制造障碍的方式可能效果不大。
But if your goal is to spend less time on your phone, it might not work to do this kind of friction approach.
还有研究中一个我觉得挺有意思的地方。
And then one final thing from the study I thought was interesting.
他们观察了人们决定不使用那些被屏蔽的应用时，会去做什么。
They looked at what people did when when they did decide to not go on to that naughty listed app.
结果发现，大约有一半的时间，人们只是换了个别的应用继续用。
It it turns out about half the time, people just went to some other app instead.
所以他们还是经常在玩手机，只是换了别的事情做，也许他们觉得这些事对自己更有好处，因为没把它们列入黑名单。
So they were still on their phones often just doing something else that maybe they thought was better for them because they didn't put it on their blacklist.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
这感觉挺对的。
That feels right.
我的意思是，你坐在马桶上，总得看点儿什么吧。
I mean, if you're sitting on the toilet, you gotta look at something.
总得做点什么。
You gotta do something.
明白了。
Alright.
到目前为止，我们学到了这些。
So here is what we have learned thus far.
如果你想减少刷手机，增加一点障碍是个好办法。
If you wanna stop scrolling, adding some friction is a good idea.
但如果障碍太小，比如弹个提示框，根本没用。
But if the hurdle is too low, like a little pop up, it's not gonna work.
如果障碍太难，你一旦跨过去，可得小心了，因为你可能会因为完成了输入三十位数字这种事而沾沾自喜，反而刷得更久。
If the hurdle is too high, once you jump it, watch out because then you might be spending more time scrolling because you're so proud of yourself for putting in those 30 digits.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
是的。
Yeah.
等你真进去了，情况可能会适得其反。
That might sort of backfire once you get in.
那有没有刚好合适的阻力程度呢？
So is there any Goldilocks amount of friction then?
其实有个办法。
Well, there was
我找到一个完全不靠增加阻力的方法，根据我查到的科学研究，这似乎是停止刷屏最有效的方式。
actually an approach that nothing to do with friction at all that I found that it seems to be the the best way to stop scrolling according to the science that that I found.
所以广告结束后我告诉你们那是什么。
So I'll tell you what that is after the break.
欢迎回来。
Welcome back.
今天我们要聊的是怎么戒掉刷手机。
Today, we are talking about how we can stop scrolling.
Science Versus 的高级制作人梅瑞尔·霍恩一直在研究这个问题，你之前说会给我们一个解决办法。
Meryl Horn, senior producer at Science Versus, has been looking into this, and I think you've promised us a solution to us.
刷柠檬。
Scrolling the lemons.
是的。
Yeah.
我是不是说得太夸张了？
Is that am I am I overselling?
我觉得并没有。
I mean, I think no.
我觉得这个办法绝对值得一试。
I think it's a solution that's definitely worth trying.
没错。
Right.
对。
Yeah.
而且相比我们之前聊过的很多方法，这个其实更容易做到。
And it it is something that is even easier than a lot of the things we've been talking about to try.
咱们直接开始吧。
Let's jump in.
接下来，我们来认识一下莉亚-克里斯汀·维科德博士。
So next, we're gonna meet doctor Lea-Christin Wickord.
她做过这方面的研究。
She did a study on this.
她是德国科布伦茨大学的研究员。
She's a researcher at the University of Koplenz in Germany.
而且，我跟所有研究这个话题的人聊过，莉亚也是因为个人原因才投身这个领域的。
And, like, basically, all the researchers that I talked to about this, Lea also got into this for personal reasons.
她是一名心理学家。
She's a psychologist.
在心理学领域，我们不做研究，我们做的是自我探索。
In psychology, we don't do research.
我们做的是自我探索。
We do a me search.
没错。
Oh, yes.
自我探索。
Me search.
正如你
As you
可以想象，我自己也存在手机使用过度的问题。
can imagine, I have a problem with my phone on my own.
所以我意识到，尤其是在疫情期间，这个研究课题真的能帮到我，让我更健康、更有益地使用手机和社交媒体，而不是整天无意义地刷屏。
So I realized, especially during COVID, that this is a research topic that could really help me with my usage pattern, using my phone, using social media in a healthy and beneficial way and not only doomskroll the whole day.
对。
Mhmm.
她发现了什么？
What has she uncovered?
其实，她的这个想法是在一次和学生开会时冒出来的，当时大家正在 brainstorm 怎么才能停止刷屏。
Well, so the idea for her came up in a meeting she was having one day with some students where they were basically brainstorming ways to stop scrolling.
有个学生提到，不如看看我们以前用的老手机。
One of the students talked about, okay, but have a look at our old phones.
就是我们最早用的那些手机。
Like, the first phones we ever had.
在欧洲，我们那时候用的是那种老款诺基亚手机。
It was like in Europe, we had these old Nokia phones.
那会儿是黑白屏的
It was a black and
白色的手机。
white phone.
我们用它来发短信。
We used it to text somebody.
打电话，或者玩个游戏，就这些了。
We used it to call somebody, maybe play a game, but that's it.
然后我们就讨论，现在该怎么做到这样呢？
And then we discussed, okay, like, how can we arrange that nowadays?
我们能不能让手机变得跟以前一样差劲？
Can we make our phones crappier like they used to be?
不是让它更差，而是让它没那么吸引人。
Not to make it more crappy, but to make it less attractive.
我们发现，那些饱和的色彩、不停闪烁的红色通知按钮，所有这些都在分散你的注意力，让你一直盯着手机。
And we realized all those saturated colors, your blinking red push on notification button, all of those colors keep you distracted and keep you on your phone.
所以，没错，就是这些颜色。
So, yeah, the colors.
研究表明，人们普遍更喜欢鲜艳的颜色。
We know from studies that people generally prefer bright colors.
这大概就是为什么我们的应用都五颜六色的原因。
It's probably why our apps are all rainbow colored.
所以我们想到，如果去掉这些鲜艳的颜色，把手机调成黑白或者灰度模式，可能会减少使用手机的时间。
And so the idea was maybe if we get rid of these bright colors, make our phones black and white or or put it in grayscale, we'll use our phones less.
Wendy，你听说过这种做法吗？
Have you heard of this approach, Wendy?
我知道有些人把手机设成了灰度模式，但我之前不知道这是为了减少使用手机的策略。
I I guess I know some people, obviously, who have their phone on grayscale, but I didn't know that this was a tactic to get them to stop using their phones so much.
对。
Yeah.
那你想试试看吗，Wendy？
So do you wanna try it, Wendy?
好啊。
Sure.
好。
Sure.
好。
Sure.
好。
Sure.
行。
Alright.
如果听众也想试试，这功能在iPhone和安卓手机的辅助功能里都能找到。
And if listeners wanna try this too, so on both iPhones and Androids is under accessibility.
所以，Wendy，你用的是iPhone吗？
So, Wendy, you have an iPhone?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
去设置里。
So go to settings.
辅助功能。
Accessibility.
辅助功能。
Accessibility.
然后往下拉，找到显示与文字大小。
And then scroll down to display and text size.
明白了。
Got it.
接着点颜色滤镜。
And now color filters.
是的。
Yes.
然后打开那个开关。
And toggle that button on.
搞定啦。
And there you go.
好的。
Okay.
灰度模式，开始了。
Grayscale, here we go.
哦。
Oh,
明白了。
okay.
效果挺微妙的。
It's subtle.
这是黑白风格。
It's noir.
很有格调。
It's classy.
对我来说，更像是‘哇哦’那种感觉。
Well, for me, it was more of a, woah.
完全像是另一回事。
It's like a completely different thing.
我觉得特别有戏剧感。
Like, I felt like it was super dramatic.
你真是这么觉得的吗？
Did you really?
我确实是。
I did.
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
我刚开始做的时候，简直懵了。
When I first did it, I was like, what?
不过你倒是说说，这背后的科学原理是什么？
Like But tell me about the science here.
所以这真的管用吗？
So does it actually work?
我觉得这根本不会有什么效果。
I would be really surprised if this made a difference.
嗯，咱们看看她的研究结果吧。
Well, yeah, let's see what happened in her studies.
她找了大约一百个人，把手机调成黑白模式。
So she got about a 100 people to do this, switch their phones to grayscale.
是的。
Yeah.
而且，一这么做，他们马上就收到了很明显的反馈。
And, yeah, right away, they they got a pretty big response.
我们问了参与者：你觉得怎么样？
We asked our participants, okay, how do you feel?
你感觉如何？
How are you?
他们都说：太难受了。
And what they did say was, it sucks.
太无聊了。
It's it's boring.
我们不想这样。
We don't want it.
对啊。
Yeah.
因为我们就想玩那些有趣的小手机。
Because we want to have our little funny phones.
我们就是想玩玩手机。
We want to have we want to play with our phone.
我们就是想开心一下。
We want to have a good time.
我们希望用手机的时候感觉舒服。
We want to feel good using our phone.
是的。
Yeah.
但是
But
但他们也说，这真的挺管用的。
what they also said is, oh, it's really working.
对。
Yeah.
所以这整体上是有效的。
So this generally works.
在莉亚的研究中，他们发现，手机调成黑白模式一两天后，人们每天使用手机的时间减少了超过一小时。
In in Lea's study, they found after a day or two of their phones being on grayscale, people spent a lot less time on their phones over an hour less on average.
真的吗？
Woah.
只是把手机调成黑白模式，每天就能少用一小时？
An hour less just because their phone was on grayscale?
对啊。
Mhmm.
还有其他长期研究，让人连续一周这么做，但效果没那么明显。
And other there's so there's also longer term studies that have people do this for a week that don't find as big effects.
大概每天能少用二十到四十分钟吧，毕竟人会慢慢适应。
So maybe twenty to forty minutes less a day, like, you get used to it.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
但我找到的这四项研究中，确实都有效果。
But out of all the four studies that I could find on this, it did work.
人们使用手机的时间变少了。
People use their phones for less time.
是的。
Yeah.
还有几项研究专门观察了手机使用量特别大的人群。
And there's a couple studies that looked at people who are really heavy phone users.
他们被认定为有过度使用智能手机的问题，这是一种比较模糊的衡量成瘾程度的方式。
They were considered to have problematic smartphone use, which is sort of a hand wavy way of measuring how addicted someone is to their smartphone.
明白了。
Okay.
研究发现，灰度模式对他们有帮助。
And they found that grayscale was helpful for them.
当然。
Sure.
有一项研究发现，人们把手机调成黑白模式后，焦虑感明显减轻了。
One study found that people with this felt less anxious after switching their phones to grayscale.
哦，我是说，你在美国看不到那种老虎机吧？
Oh, I mean, you don't see pokies machines or what do you call them in The US?
就是老虎机。
Slot machines.
你从来没见过黑白模式的老虎机吧？
You don't see slot machines that are grayscale.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
不过，确实有些事情做起来更麻烦。
And well, but there are some things that are harder to do.
我注意到，把手机调成黑白模式后，比如有人打电话来，接听和挂断按钮原本是红绿两色的，现在就看不出来了。
I noticed when I put my phone in grayscale, scale, like, when someone's calling you, the the buttons for answering the phone or declining it are in red and green.
所以现在我接电话的时候，心里就嘀咕：哎呀不好。
So now when I'm picking up a call, I'm like, oh gosh.
我该按哪个键啊？
Like, which button do I push?
按哪个？
Push?
我得特别留神，确保按对了
I really have to pay attention to make sure you hit
那个正确的键。
the right one.
你这话什么意思？
What do you mean?
是那个梅丽尔吗？
It's that Meryl?
直到颜色没了，你才意识到自己有多依赖它们。
You don't realize how dependent you are on the colors until they're gone.
好的。
Okay.
明白了。
Okay.
行吧。
Alright.
不过大多数情况下，还是能用的。
But for most things, it still works okay.
行。
Alright.
而且有几位听众告诉我们，他们用这个方法挺管用的，其中一位的声音你可能听过。
And, you know, a few of our listeners told us that this worked for them, including this one, whose voice you might recognize.
我已经用了灰度模式大概三周了。
I have been using Grayscale for, like, three weeks.
结果一看屏幕使用时间报告，我的使用时间真的减少了。
And then when I look at my screen time report, my screen time is down.
我每天玩手机的时间减少了大约三成，这比我原本预期的还要多。
My phone time is down, like, 30%, which is actually more than I thought it would be.
真的吗？
Wow.
布莱丝·特雷尔，没错。
Blythe Terrell Mhmm.
这里是《科学对战》的执行主编。
Executive editor here at Science Versus.
是的。
Yeah.
她试过了。
She tried it.
对她来说确实有效。
It worked for her.
她又来了。
Here she is again.
我确实注意到，只要一刷社交媒体什么的，就觉得一点意思都没有。
I do notice that if I'm on socials or whatever, I'm like, none of this looks like fun.
根本提不起劲来。
Like, it really nothing is popping.
你知道最关键是啥吗？
And, also, you know what the main thing is?
我的手机再也不像一袋彩虹糖了。
Is that my phone does not look like a bag of jelly beans anymore.
当你重新打开屏幕时，那种感觉特别明显。
Like, it's really striking when you turn it back on.
一打开彩色模式，你就觉得，哎哟，糖果店啊。
When you turn the color on, you're like, oh, candy.
满眼都是糖果。
Candy store.
可一切换成黑白模式，立马感觉像在看报纸一样。
And when you put it on Grayscale, you're like, oh, it looks like I'm reading a newspaper.
还有，温迪，我大部分时间还是把手机设成黑白模式。
And, Wendy, this is one of the things that, you know, I still have my phone on Grayscale most of the time.
我觉得这确实对我有帮助。
I think it does help me too,
对，没错。
which Uh-huh.
这让我想到一个更深层的问题，我之前问过莉亚。
It kind of, it did make me think of a more sort of philosophical question about all this that I I put to Lea.
我们是不是有点悲哀，非得把手机调成黑白，才能让自己少刷点？
Is it a little sad that, like, we would need to, like, put our worlds in black and white on our phones to get us to scroll less?
我觉得，
I think, of
当然，这确实有点让人难过。
course, somehow it can be sad.
但另一方面，意识到现实生活中原来有这么多色彩，反而更美好。
But on the other hand, it can be so much more beautiful to realize all the colors in your real life.
我觉得我们太专注于手机里看到的生活了。
And I think we are so concentrated on the life that we see in our phones.
比如你关注的YouTube朋友，还有所有你关注的人。
Let's say our YouTube friends and everyone we are following.
当然，他们的生活看起来很美好，有漂亮的公寓、完美的假期、时髦的穿搭。
Like, of course, they have a beautiful life and the perfect flats, amazing holidays, great outfits.
但你自己的生活呢？
But what about your own life?
你的假期、你的朋友、你的狗呢？
What about your holiday, your friends, your dog?
是啊。
Yeah.
还有你身边美丽的自然风光。
The beautiful nature you're surrounded by.
所以我觉得，如果这样能让我们意识到——嘿，这些美好的东西我们自己也有，生活中本来就有这么多色彩，那我们就真没必要在手机上保留彩色了。
So I think if it helps us to realize, okay, we have that too and we see all that colors in our life, we don't need color on our phone.
你知道吗，梅丽尔，我一直在想，要是我对这种事反应这么平淡，是不是因为我的手机设成了黑白模式。
Do you know, Meryl, I wonder if I had such a humdrum reaction to, oh, okay.
我的手机现在是灰度显示。
It's just my phone on grayscale.
前几天，我看到了一道特别美的彩虹。
Because the other day, I saw the most beautiful rainbow.
它正好横跨在我家上空。
It went over my house.
我赶紧跑到一边的窗户前。
Over I I ran to one window.
我看见了彩虹，又跑到房子另一头——房子其实不大，但另一侧的彩虹也正从我家屋顶掠过。
I saw the rainbow, and then I ran to the other side of it's not a big house, but the other side and the rainbow was coming over my house.
所以，把手机调成黑白，真没那么难。
And so to put my phone on Grace not a big deal.
真的不难。
Not a
你生活中本来就拥有所有的色彩。
big You already have all the colors of your life.
没错。
That's right.
但我敢打赌，这种新鲜感迟早会消退，到时候我又想换回手机里那五彩斑斓的糖果色了。
But I'm sure that'll fade away, and then I'll just wanna look at the the cotton candy of my phone soon.
好吧。
So okay.
所以我想问最后一个问题是：人们减少刷手机后，真的会感觉更好吗？
So I think my last question is, once people scroll less, do they actually feel better?
他们会更珍惜生活中那些彩虹般的时刻吗？
Do they appreciate the rainbow in their life more?
这个问题的答案其实有点出人意料。
Well, the answer to this was sort of surprising.
有几项大型研究发现，当人们减少使用手机时，心理健康状况会略有改善。
So there there were a couple big trials that have found people's mental health gets a little better when they use their phones less.
对。
Mhmm.
有一项研究找了数百人，让其中一些人每天少用一小时手机，结果真的人们的生活满意度提高了。
So, like, one study got hundreds of people and had some of them use their phones for an hour less every day, and it worked to, like, improve life satisfaction.
不过这方面的研究很多，有些根本没发现任何好处。
But a lot of studies have been done on this, and some of them haven't found any benefit at all.
有些甚至发现了负面效果。
Some have found, like, negative effects.
我找到一篇综述，它分析了另外三篇关于减少屏幕使用时间是否影响幸福感的研究，结论是这种说法还值得商榷。
And one review that I found that looked at three other reviews about, like, whether or not these interventions that reduce screen time affect well-being, they said that that was, quote, questionable.
什么？
What?
是的。
Yeah.
面对这么多矛盾的结果，你怎么看？
What do you make of that, of all this mix?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得对某些人来说，他们其实并不需要减少屏幕使用时间也能感觉更好。
I I think maybe for some people, it they really don't need to be reducing their screen time Right.
为了让自己更开心。
To feel better.
也许我们不必因为自己难以做到这一点就自责，毕竟减少屏幕时间未必就能彻底改变生活。
And maybe, you know, we shouldn't be beating ourselves up if if we're having a hard time with this because there's no guarantee that cutting down on screen time is gonna, like, turn your life around.
但另一方面，对我个人而言，我觉得确实有帮助。
But on the other hand, like, for me, I think it does help.
对。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
还有对我们所有听众中那些说自己特别难做到的人，嗯。
And for all of our listeners who were saying that they really struggle with this and Mhmm.
网上很多回应上周那起法院判决的人说，没错，这可能不是我所有烦恼的根源，但一连几个小时刷手机之后，我就是感觉特别糟。
And everyone online who's really been responding to the news of that court case that came down last week saying, you know, yeah, this is this is something that's maybe not the cause of all the sadness in my life, but I don't feel good after I kinda get sucked into my phone for a few hours.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你觉得这是个问题，而且真想改变，那就试试做点调整。
But if this is a problem for you and you want it, try changing something.
Jaejeung说，你首先要做的就是
Jaejeung said that the first thing that you gotta do
你得按下那个按钮，而迈出这第一步真的很难。
You need to press the button and that starting point is really hard.
是的。
Yeah.
我也有同样的感受。
I noticed that too.
我刚开始为这期节目做调研时，心里就有一种声音在说：我真不想碰这些事。
Like when I first started researching for this episode, there was something in me that was just like, I don't wanna do any of this.
我就只想一直玩手机。
Like, I just wanna keep using my phone.
没错。
Exactly.
我觉得这就是最难的一步。
I think that's the hardest point.
等等。
Wait.
他说的‘按下按钮’是什么意思？
What does he mean you need to press the button?
我的意思是，刚开始做这项研究的时候，我就觉得啥办法都不管用。
I mean, for me, like, when I started doing this research, I just like I just felt like nothing was really gonna work.
你知道吗，我以前写过关于灰度模式的文章，第一次听说的时候，我还觉得这主意挺傻的。
You know, I I I write about grayscale, and the first time I heard of it, I was just like, that sounds kind of like dumb.
我不
I'm not
就这么干。
gonna do that.
对。
Yeah.
有点儿像
That's kind of
我现在就是这样。
where I'm at.
但我觉得自己就是懒得去行动。
But I think I was just resistant to doing anything.
就是觉得提不起劲儿。
Like, I was just feeling kind of lazy.
所以 Jaejeung 说，其实做任何事，最难的就是迈出第一步。
And so Jaejeung was is basically like, you know, just starting is often the hardest part of this.
对他来说，这意味着工作或者睡觉前，干脆把手机放到另一个房间。
And for him, you know, this means just like putting his phone in a different room sometimes if he's working or going to bed.
他还有一个办法，就是当你已经陷入刷手机的状态时用。
And then he has this one thing he does for when he's already in a scrolling session.
我会直接对自己喊，别玩了，赶紧开始干活吧。
I just physically I talk to myself, hey, stop using and just start work or just do it.
如果你对自己说一声‘嘿’，就更有可能真的把手机关掉。
And then you're more likely to actually just like close your phone if you just tell yourself, hey.
对。
Yeah.
别玩了。
Stop.
没错。
Yes.
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
从行动上来说，这招对我有用，但我不确定别人能不能行，反正我是管用的。
Physically speaking, it works for me, but I'm I'm not sure if it works for others, but it does for me.
我发现，当我刷着刷着突然不想再刷的时候，问问自己刚才看的内容到底有没有意思，这招挺管用的。
I do find that when I am scrolling and don't wanna be anymore Really questioning whether I'm enjoying any of the content I've just seen does help.
比如说，我之前有一阵子刷得特别顺，视频一个接一个，都特别有意思。
So as an example, so I was on a good run because you can be on a good run with social media where you're getting video after video that's actually quite delightful.
然后
And
直到我看到一个视频，是一群小屁孩戴着小胡子，一本正经地说：我超爱戴胡子。
then I stopped it when I saw this video of kids of plucky little kids wearing mustaches and saying, I love wearing a mustache.
我当时就愣了：这
And I was like, what the
我到底在干嘛？
fuck am I doing with my life?
那就是你的低谷时刻了。
That was your dark moment.
我还以为会更糟呢。
I thought it was gonna be way worse than that.
这就够了。
That was enough.
这就够了。
That was enough.
我当时觉得...
I was
不对。
no.
小孩子戴胡子。
Kids wearing mustaches.
好吧。
Okay.
扔进垃圾堆吧。
In the bin.
就在这儿。
Here.
这是个警醒。
Wake up call.
没错。
Exactly.
就该这样。
That was it.
谢谢，梅丽尔。
Thanks, Meryl.
谢谢，温迪。
Thanks, Wendy.
这讲的是科学与……
That's science versus.
如果你尝试
And if you try any
我们在这期节目中提到的任何方法——比如把手机调成灰度、下载一个会轻轻提醒你的应用、看一段你讨厌的无聊视频，然后把手机扔进垃圾桶——请在Instagram上告诉我们。
of the stuff that we've talked about on this episode, you put your phone in grayscale, you download an app that has a little nudge, you watch a dumb video that you despise, and then you throw the phone in the bin, please let us know on Instagram.
我们是ScienceVs。
We are sciencevs.
我在TikTok上是WendyZuk，非常期待听到你们的声音。
I'm on TikTok WendyZuk and we love to hear from you.
Meryl，这期节目里有多少篇引用文献？
Meryl, how many citations are in this week's episode?
好的。
Okay.
我们一共引用了44篇文献。
We have 44 citations.
太好了。
Great.
太好了。
Great.
很好。
Great.
如果想看这些参考文献，可以去节目笔记里点击链接查看文字稿。
If you wanna see those, you can go to the show notes and follow the links to the transcripts.
本集节目由梅瑞尔·霍恩制作，我本人温迪·祖克曼、罗斯·里姆勒、米歇尔·邓和埃凯迪·福斯特-基斯提供了协助。
This episode was produced by Meryl Horn with help from me, Wendy Zukerman, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang, and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys.
我是执行制片人。
I'm the executive producer.
本集由布莱斯·特雷尔剪辑，埃里卡·秋子·霍华德负责内容核实，鲍比·劳德负责混音和音效设计，音乐由鲍比·劳德、日向布美、索·怀利、艾玛·芒格和彼得·伦纳德创作。
We're edited by Blythe Terrell, fact checking by Erica Akiko-Howard, mix and sound design by Bobby Lord, music written by Bobby Lord, Bumi Hidaka, So Wylie, Emma Munger, and Peter Leonard.
特别感谢所有接受我们采访的研究人员，包括凯·卢科夫博士、赵炫成博士、亚历克斯·霍尔特博士、扬·奥勒·里克森博士、杰·奥尔森博士和诺亚·卡斯特洛博士。
Thank you so much to all of the researchers that we spoke to, including Doctor Kai Lukoff, Hyunsung Cho, Doctor Alex Holte, Doctor Jan Ole Rixen, Doctor Jay Olson, and Doctor Noah Castelo.
衷心感谢约瑟夫·拉贝尔·威尔逊和祖克曼家族。
A big thanks to Joseph LaBelle Wilson and the Zukerman family.
《科学VS》是Spotify Studios的原创节目。
Science Versus is a Spotify Studios original.
你可以在Spotify上免费收听，或者在你常用的播客平台找到我们。
Listen to us for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
记得关注我们并打开铃铛提醒，新节目上线时就能收到通知了。
Just follow us and tap the bell if you wanna get notifications when new episodes come out.
我是温迪·祖克曼。
I'm Wendy Zukerman.
我们下周再会。
Back to you next week.
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