720 - 注意你的语气

我们只是希望有一些聪明、有趣的人来审核剧情，同时也审核角色。

And we just kind of wanted some smart, interesting people to vet the plot, but also vet the characters.

而且我们希望打造一个非常令人满意的结局，并为未来可能的新一季铺垫好所有必要元素。

And and we wanted to build to a to a really satisfying ending and set up everything that we need to in hopes of a new season.

我们还觉得，如果我要执导前几集，可能会遇到他们让我过去开始工作的状况。

We also felt like maybe if I was gonna be directing the first couple episodes that we might get in a situation where they would send me over there to start working on

是的。

Yeah.

筹备工作会让我过去，那样我们就会被分开了。

Prep, and I wouldn't we'd be separated.

所以我们希望在我离开之前，尽可能把所有事情都敲定。

So we just wanted to have as much of it buttoned up as we could before I left.

幸运的是，这种情况并没有发生。

Fortunately, didn't happen.

我们开拍之前就已经把所有剧本都写好了。

We we had everything written by the time we started.

是的。

Yeah.

八集。

Eight eight episodes.

对吧？

Right?

八集。

Eight episodes.

所以是八集。

So eight episodes.

出发前就已经写好了。

It's written before you go.

你们是分块拍摄吗？

Are you block shooting it?

你们是怎么安排，才能最好地完成这些的？

Like, how how are you figuring out the best ways to do that?

好吧，我想说一件事，现在我们可以坦白了，因为一切都很顺利——那就是我们确实撒谎了，说第四集和第五集已经写好了，哦，对了。

Well, I wanna say one thing which is that which I think we can admit now because it it all worked out, which is that we definitely lied about having episodes four and five written when we Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我并没有

I didn't

告诉他们。

tell them.

我们不得不装作在思考可能会是什么样子，然后像往常一样走完整个流程。

We had to be like, we're thinking it could be something like, and we, like, go through the whole rigor like, the whole process.

是的。

Yeah.

但我很高兴我们是这样做的。

But I am glad we did it that way.

这让我们真正地深入审视了那些剧本。

It kinda made us really, like, interrogate those scripts.

但我们确实如此。

But we yeah.

我们其实偷偷做了很多。

We had a lot sort of secretly done.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们是成组拍摄的。

So we shot blocks.

对。

Yeah.

我们一次拍两集。

We shot two episodes at a time.

所以我本来打算拍三到四集，通常来说，如果这不是我本人写的剧，我会进来负责头两到三集。

So I I knew I wanted to do three or four, and we were trying to figure out normally, I would just if it wasn't a show that I also wrote, I would come in and do, like, the first two or three.

但因为我们当时在编剧室，我的想法是，我本来就想拍前几集，然后有一集中场集是我个人特别有共鸣的。

But as we were in the Writers' Room, and my thought was I I knew I wanted to do the first couple, and then there was a mid season episode that I just was personally really connected to.

所以我知道我想做这个，然后我们就想，怎样才能更有创意？

So I knew I wanted to do that and were like, how can we be creative?

所以我打算做中间那一部分，这样我就能做这个了。

So I was gonna do a middle block so I could do that.

当我们开始策划大结局时，听起来太有趣了，我在午餐休息时给杰西卡打了电话，我说：‘如果别人执导了大结局，我会非常生气，因为我现在太喜欢这个了。’

And then as we started breaking the finale, it sounded like it was so much fun that I called Jessica during a lunch break, and I was like, I'm gonna be really annoyed if someone else directs the finale because now I love it.

我能执导吗？

And can I do it?

她回答：‘是的。’

And she's like, yeah.

如果你知道的话？

If you you know?

所以，总之，我基本上从头到尾都一直在那里。

So, anyway, I ended up, like, basically being there the whole the whole time more or less.

但没错。

But yeah.

所以，能够参与剧集的策划过程，决定哪些部分要保留，真的很有趣。

So so it was fun having the experience of, like, breaking the episodes and kind of deciding there which ones.

作为导演，我也对不同的剧集产生了感情，这感觉很好。

I got attached to different episodes as a director too, which was nice.

跟我们说说你们的编剧室吧。

Talk me about your writers' room.

你们是怎么挑选想一起合作的编剧的？

How did you pick writers you wanted to be in the room with you?

因为显然，你们两个人有着清晰的愿景和独特的风格。

Because, obviously, the two of you have a clear vision, a clear voice.

你们是否在寻找那些能弥补你们不足的人？比如你们不太擅长的方面？

Were you looking for people who complimented you in ways, like things you weren't particularly good at?

你们的筛选标准是什么？最终请了多少位编剧加入？

Like, what were the criteria, how many writers did end up ultimately bringing in?

这挺有意思的，因为我们经常聊到这个话题，我也参加过很多编剧室。

It's funny because we we had this conversation a lot, and I've been in a lot of rooms.

所以我学到了很多。

And so I've learned a lot.

我学到了很多该做什么和不该做什么。

I've learned a lot of what to do and what not to do.

而且，在房间开始之前，这事儿常常让我彻夜难眠，因为我知道我曾经待过很棒的房间。

Also, it was a thing that, like, would keep me up at night before a room started because it's like, I've been in great rooms.

我也待过不怎么样的房间，所以我心里压力特别大，一定要确保我的房间是那些优秀的房间之一。

I've been in not great rooms, and I'm just like, oh god, I have so much pressure on myself of making sure that my room is one of the good rooms.

不只是《周六夜现场》，看看你的履历，你也待过一些很有挑战性的创作室。

Well, not just SNL, but also, like, looking through your credits, like, you've been in some challenging rooms.

我待过。

I've been

一些很有挑战性的创作室。

in some challenging rooms.

在我待过的每一个创作室里，我都学到了很多。

In every room I've been in, I've learned a ton.

是的。

Yeah.

但同时，确实有些房间更难应对。

But also, yeah, some were harder than others.

但通过观察其他团队，我强烈认为，我不太赞成引入专家。

But one thing that I do feel strongly about from just witnessing it in other rooms is that I am not a huge fan of bringing in specialists.

我不是那种会说，好吧的人。

I'm not somebody who's like, okay.

我们剧里有喜剧元素。

We have comedy in the show.

我们剧里有悬疑元素。

We have a mystery in the show.

所以让我们请一个特别擅长悬疑的人来吧。

So let's bring in, like, a really good mystery person.

再请一个特别擅长喜剧的人来吧。

Let's bring in a really good comedy person.

因为最终，你只是希望人们能够独立写出这部剧，希望他们能完整地创作这部剧。

Because, eventually, you just you want people to be able to write the show, and you want people to write the show fully.

所以自私地说，我们只是想招一些至少和我们有相似创作风格的编剧。

And so selfishly, we just wanted to bring in writers who at least had a sensibility like us.

我们希望引进那些拥有不同经历和不同视角的人，你知道的，各种背景多样化的人员。

We wanted to bring in people who had different experiences and different perspectives and, you know, a diversity of types of people.

但归根结底，我们希望这些人能够写出既能体现我们剧集标志性的对话，又能展现我们剧集标志性的感情根基，并且能驾驭剧情转折的剧本。

But at the end of the day, we wanted people to be able to execute a script that could both have the banter that is emblematic of our show, have the emotional grounding that is emblematic of our show, and be able to speak to the twists.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以我看了大量的样本，也面谈了很多优秀的人。

And so I read a ton of samples, and I met with great people.

他们面谈了那些我本来会雇用但付不起薪水的优秀人才。

They met with great people that I would have hired and I couldn't afford.

你知道，整个过程就是不断调整，寻找合适的拼图碎片。

You know, there's just there was a lot of, shaping to find the puzzle pieces.

但把这一切整合起来最令人兴奋的是，许多编剧依然能够带来一种共享的创作理念，同时具备不同的技能。

But what was really exciting putting it together is that a lot of the writers just still came about being able to have a sensibility that was shared with different skill sets.

比如，我们有一位编剧非常擅长绘制谁在何时知道什么的线索图，这完全不是我的思维方式，但看到这样的呈现真的很有帮助。

Like, we had a writer who was just really good at, like, making a map of who knows what when and the board, and just that's just not how my mind works, and it was just really helpful to see it.

还有其他编剧能深刻把握友谊剧中的情感脉络，以一种非常个人化的方式呈现，而我们正好能直接采用。

And, you know, other writers who just really could hook into the emotions of, like, the friendship drama and in a way that felt very personal that we were just able to use there.

我们在很短的时间内组建了一个非常温馨的团队，一群我们都非常在乎的编剧。

And we built a really nice family, a very just small group of writers in a very short amount of time, and all people that we care a lot about.

你们俩有没有在编剧面前发生过争执？

Did the two of you ever disagree in front of the writers?

是的。

Yeah.

有些人。

Some people.

大概吧。

Probably.

苏珊娜和我有兄弟姐妹关系，我们是

Susannah and I have a sibling We're

很像，闭嘴。

very like, shut up.

我不这么做。

I don't do that.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

All right.

太好了。

Great.

是的。

Yeah.

事情。

Things.

所以，我的意思是，有人挑战你的想法其实也有帮助，而且能让你感受到

So so we did I mean, it's also helpful to have your ideas challenged, and and feel that of

这个房间里，比如戴夫的房间经验比我多得多。

the room is, like, Dave has so much more room experience than I do.

是的。

Yeah.

但与此同时，在一个房间的层级结构中，人们需要一段时间才能明白，有时候他们是可以挑战剧集主创的想法的。

But at the same time, like, within a hierarchy of a room, it takes a while for people to know that they can challenge the showrunners' ideas sometimes.

所以，这可能就像一个学习曲线，人们逐渐明白，如果他们提出意见，只要是有价值的，就会被接受，因为房间里存在一种思想上的 meritocracy，而戴夫的思维方式就是这样。

So, like, it it's maybe like a learning curve with people knowing that, like, it's gonna go over well if they give an if there's a there's a meritocracy of ideas in the room, and, like, that's how Dave David is wired.

但在他们学会这一点之前，即使我们希望想法能被挑战，人们还是会害怕提出反对意见。

But until they learn that, there's a certain fear around pushing back on stuff, even if we want the ideas challenged.

奇怪的是，虽然我的房间经验不如我们下面的许多编剧，但有一段时间，我有时是唯一一个会说‘不’的人。

So weirdly, although I didn't have as much room experience as many of the writers that were under us, for a while, it was like I was kind of the only person sometimes who would be like, no.

不。

No.

因为其他人并不确定在编剧室里是否可以这样做，这与编剧室的运作方式有关。

Because other people are just not sure if they can do that in a writer's room just because of how those rooms work.

但我们的品味确实非常一致。

But we really do share taste pretty specifically.

比如，我们几乎从不就某件事的执行方式产生分歧。

Like, we're it's very rare that we have a disagreement about how something is executed.

我的意思是，这其实相当了不起。

I mean, it's pretty amazing, actually.

我合作过很多人，但总有一种感觉：如果我错过了一次会议或某件事，我知道你会做出我会做的决定，你知道的，这让我感到安心，尤其是当我出去执导别的东西时。

I've worked with a lot of people, but there's always a sense of, like, if I have to miss a meeting or miss something, like, I know that I know you're gonna make the decisions I would make, you know, which is, like, a relief, I think, especially if I'm, like, off directing something.

我不知道。

And I don't know.

我只是知道，如果我错过了什么，你一定会注意到。

Just just I know you'll catch the thing if I miss it.

而且

And

这在选角方面也很有帮助。

It was it was helpful in casting too.

我们能清楚地看到，彼此脑海中对角色的形象是一致的，因为我们会说，当然，当然我觉得就应该是这样。

It was just, like, being able to see clearly we had the same vision in our head of who the characters were because we would, you know, we would definitely be like, of course, of course I it is this

我几乎没有任何电视剧写作室的经验。

have almost no TV writing room experience.

所以会有许多制片人来找我，向我讲述他们的故事。

And so I have all these showrunners who come through, right, and then they tell me their stories.

一直让我觉得奇怪的是，你们是根据作家的写作能力来雇佣他们的。

A thing that's always struck me as strange is that you hire writers based on how good they are writing.

你们在阅读样本时，希望找到真正优秀的作家。

You're reading samples, and you want really good writers.

大卫，你刚才说，你们希望找到能写出整部剧的作家。

David, you were saying, you know, you want writers who can write the whole show.

但事实上，在整个剧集制作的数周时间里，他们却并不在写作。

And yet, for the weeks and weeks of the show, they're not writing.

嗯。

Mhmm.

写作非常少。

There's very little writing.

你只是在利用他们的头脑。

It's just you're just using their brain.

这难道不奇怪吗？

And isn't that weird?

难道不奇怪吗？在编剧室里，这些人为什么不多写点？

Isn't that weird that the people aren't writing more during the course of the writer's room?

尤其是在这个编剧室，因为我们已经写了这么多。

Especially in this room because we had written so much.

我们当时想，好吧，还有两集空缺，可以写。

We were like, okay, there's two available episodes for Yeah.

你们所有人都来写。

All of y'all to do.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是真的。

I mean, it's it's true.

确实非常奇怪。

It is it is very weird.

而且，当我回想我曾待过的其他编剧室——那些我没有雇佣或解雇权力、只是作为旁观者的房间时，我认为那些极其擅长处理房间内人际关系、拥有良好态度、让大家都喜欢他们、或者有很棒点子的人，都非常出色。

And also, when I think about other rooms that I've been in, in rooms that I had no hiring and firing power, in rooms where I was just an observer in, I think that people who are incredibly skilled at the politics of a room or just how to have, like, a great disposition and have everybody like them or have really good ideas, All really great.

但如果你写不出剧本，那你基本上就完了。

And if you can't deliver a script, like, you're kind of toast.

嗯。

Mhmm.

最终，这才是最难的部分。

Ultimately, that is what the hard part is.

我会说，让你在编剧室里表现优秀的是多参与讨论，但真正让你有资格进入编剧室的，是你能写出剧本。

And I would say that what makes you good in a room is being in a room more, but what should get you in the room is being able to write the script.

运营一个节目的很多过程，都让我回想起过去的工作经历，比如那些我没做好的地方，或者我可以做得不一样的地方，又或者我能看清自己在其中的位置。

A lot of the process of running a show is kind of going back to my jobs past and, like, where I didn't do a good job or where I would have done differently or where I, like, kind of can see my my place in it.

我记得在一个非常早期的工作中，有一位非常著名的制片人，我不会点名，但他的声音是这样的。

And I remember in a very, very early job, a very famous producer, who I won't name, but here's a voice like this.

而且而且

And and

那是阿尔弗雷德·希区柯克，

It was Alfred Hitchcock,

没错，这确实是真的。

wasn't It's definitely true.

但他给了我一些负面反馈，说他的自信与他的经验并不匹配。

But he gave feedback, negative feedback about me that his certainty does not match with his experience.

完全不是这样。

Not at all.

所以我和

So I

我把它放在心上，努力去内化它。

took it to heart, and I really tried to internalize it.

我知道这种心态的来源，因为当时我不知道除了强烈坚持自己的观点之外，还能怎样在房间里表现自己。

And I do know where it came because I didn't know any other way to be in a room but feel that I had to feel strongly about my ideas.

现在我负责制作节目时，你不能只是说：‘这个可能这样，也可能那样。’

Now running a show, it's like you can't just be like, that could be this, it could be this.

你必须要有把握。

Like, you have to be certain.

但这其实是一个逐渐明白的过程——我知道自己有解决方案。

But it is a process of just kind of knowing that, like, I have the solution.

但同时，我也知道自己在这个房间里排在第十七位。

But also, like, I am, like, the seventeenth person down on the hierarchy of this room.

我该怎么做到这一点？

How do I do that?

这需要时间。

And it takes time.

所以我觉得现在我非常享受帮助朋友处理他们的项目，比如帮Grin一起头脑风暴，因为我个人并没有什么利害关系，只是单纯想把它做好。

So I think now I absolutely love, like, helping other friends with their stuff, like, Grin coming up with ideas because I have no personal investment other than just, like, wanting to do it.

而且如果你们不采纳我的想法，我也不会觉得心痛。

And it's not like if you don't listen to my idea that, like, I am gonna like, it's gonna hurt my heart.

我完全不在乎。

I absolutely don't care.

但因为我参与过太多次关于房间运作、故事创作和故事修改的过程，所以我积累了大量的经验。

But, like, I've now done so many versions of what a room is and what breaking a story is and what fixing a story is that, like, I have all of that ammunition.

我之所以拥有这些经验，是因为我经历过很多不同的创作环境，而我能进入这些环境，是因为我能够写出剧本。

I only have that because I've been in a lot of rooms, and I've only gotten those rooms because I was able to write the script.

让我们聊聊让我感到特别且意外的一点，就是你们这部剧的基调。

Let's talk about what is so specific and unexpected for me and your show is the tone in that.

首先，这是一部年代剧，但几乎让人感觉它像是在那个时代拍摄的。

First off, it's it's a period show that almost feels like it could have been shot in the time.

这其中一部分原因在于Zanny的导演方式。

And that some of that is how Zanny chose to direct it.

这就像你追求那种邮筒式的宽高比。

It's like you're going for that pillar box format.

所以不是宽屏，而是方屏。

So rather than widescreen, it's square screen.

显然，一切看起来都很真实，感觉也很到位，布达佩斯很好地替代了莫斯科。

Obviously, everything looks right and feels right, and Budapest stands in really well for Moscow.

但镜头运动和其他一切细节都告诉你，我们身处一个七十年代的氛围——如果真在那个年代拍摄，画面不会看起来像这样。

But the camera movements and and everything else just, it tells you that we're in a seventies kind of place without a show shot in that time wouldn't have looked like that.

那时候的画面会很糟糕，而这部剧却拍得非常出色。

It would have looked crappy, then this looks great.

对。

Right.

但这就是氛围的一部分。

But that is part of the tone.

但演员之间的喜剧氛围，以及世界和情节张力的呈现方式，都比其他间谍剧要轻松一些。

But also the comedic tone between the actors and sort of like how the world is presented and how the stakes are presented is just a little lighter than the equivalent other spy show would be.

是的

Yeah.

你是什么时候知道的？又是如何确立这一点的？

And how early did you know that, and how did you anchor into that?

我的意思是，我们一直感兴趣的是，如果大多数间谍电影大部分时间都聚焦在剧情上，那么到了晚上，这些角色回到家后，还是会打电话给妈妈，和丈夫吵架。

I mean, I think something that that we've always been interested in is, you know, if if most spy movies are sort of on plot most of the time, if you sort of went home with those people at the end of the day, they would still, like, call their moms and fight with their husbands.

我的意思是，他们依然会有生活，不会一直扮演间谍的角色。

I mean, they would still have a life where they're not acting in character as spy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得这种真实感是存在的。

And so I think there is a truth to that.

我们只是想偶尔把镜头转向这些方面。

We sort of just wanted to shift where the lens is sometimes to that.

因此，当一个人不在执行高风险任务时，其性格中其他更轻松的方面自然就会显现出来——毕竟他们的工作本身是高度紧张的。

So so it naturally has, like, the other parts of a person's personality that come forward when they're not on the job in a high stakes situation are, by nature, lighter if their job is high stakes.

所以我们对这一点很感兴趣。

And so we're interested in in that.

如果它足够真实和扎实，就不会让人觉得基调混乱。

And and if it feels true and grounded enough, then it doesn't feel like the tone is confused.

我认为混合基调有时会让人害怕，因为人们不希望感觉像是在看两个不同的剧集。

And I think sometimes with a mixed tone and what scares people about it is people don't want it to feel like you're in two different shows.

希望如果所有内容都足够扎实

And hopefully, if it all feels grounded

你会觉得你是在看一部剧，但那是一部非常特别、不寻常的剧

You feel like you're one show, but it's it's a very specific unusual show

完全对。

Totally.

某种程度上

To sort

要融入其中。

of be in.

所以《美国人》是一部很棒的剧，讲述的是间谍在他们的家庭生活中展开故事。

So The Americans is is a great show where you have spies who are in their their home lives.

不同之处在于，他们极其能干。

The difference is like they're incredibly competent.

因此，即使他们正处于职业生涯的巅峰，依然在为此挣扎，这种张力依然存在。

And so like this is tension even like they're the best of their game and they're still struggling with it.

而这里有两个女性，对这一切都一无所知。

Here you have two women who are new to all this.

她们刚踏入这个领域，就像鱼离开了水，这种处境本质上是一种喜剧氛围。

They're fish out of water in as they're sort of getting started in this, and that is essentially a comedic environment to be in.

所以她们深陷其中、力不从心，这让人感到共鸣，同时也充满趣味，但这种设定我们很少见到。

So they're they're in over their heads, which is relatable but also fun, but just that's not a thing we see so often.

我们在《特工》里见过类似的情节。

We saw it in Spyder.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我想我的意思是，我认为这就是我想表达的，我们两人都为自己的工作带来了许多东西，因为我觉得这正是我们作为人在世界上的样子。

I think I mean, I think this is what I mean, both of us bring a lot to our work because I think this is just how we are as people in the world.

我觉得自己是个有趣的人。

Like, I consider myself a funny person.

我觉得我周围的人大多都是有趣的人。

I consider most people I surround myself with as funny people.

如果我身处一个非常紧张的情境中，比如要去做手术，去参加葬礼，或者生活中遇到某种危机，我不知道那一部分的我是否真的被我压下去了。

If I am in a really tense situation, if I'm going into surgery, if I am going to a funeral, if I am like, if I have, like, a some sort of crisis in my life, I don't know that that part of me is still I'm putting it away.

人们依然在讲笑话。

Like, people are still making jokes.

这是我从《广告狂人》中学到的另一个教训——当时我短暂地参与过。在剧情剧中写喜剧和在纯喜剧剧中写喜剧的区别在于：在喜剧里，场景中的其他人都是在为你的笑点服务。

And this is another lesson I learned from, actually, when I was on very briefly on Mad Men, was that the rule of writing comedy in a drama versus writing comedy in a comedy is that in comedy, like, other people in a scene are servicing your joke.

而在剧情剧中，也可能存在一个有趣的人。

And in a drama, there could be a funny person.

在那场戏中，其他人的目的并不是为了铺垫你的笑点。

The other person's purpose in that scene is not to Set up a joke.

铺垫

Set up

你的笑点。

your joke.

但人们之所以有趣，是因为他们所处的世界就是这样。

But but people are funny because this is the world that they're in.

而在我们的剧集中，海莉·布鲁·理查德森饰演的蒂娃，是一个在生活中用幽默作为盔甲的人，这对许多像她一样经历过艰难人生的人来说，都是非常真实的。

And Twila, in our show, Hayley Blue Richardson's character, is somebody who uses humor as armor in her life, and that is just such a true thing for so many people who have

对我来说不是。

Not for me.

经历过像她那样艰难人生的人，她就是会成为这样的人，这就是她应对危机的方式。

Who have had really difficult lives as she has, that, like, that is who she is going to be, and that is how she's going to deal with crisis.

而比娅非常神经质。

And Bea is very neurotic.

嗯。

Mhmm.

不像你。

Not like you.

不像你。

Not like you.

而且，你知道的，本来要失控的。

And, you know, was going to spin out.

她总是想太多，是的。

She's overthink very, yeah.

当她处于危机时，她就会过度思考。

She was gonna overthink when, you know, when she is in crisis.

这些就是这些人真实会做的事，而且你知道，这依然会很有趣。

And these are just true things that that these people are gonna do, and, you know, and it is still going to be enjoyable.

而且这些角色还有办公室工作，再加上莫斯科是个非常奇怪的地方，尤其是在苏联时期，这本身就很好笑。

And the fact that these are also people who have jobs in an office, and also, Moscow is a really weird place, particularly in The USSR, and that is funny.

所以我们能够尝试生活在一个仍然感觉像真实世界、赌注很高的世界里，当面临生死关头时，比如我们非常重视试播集的最终场景（我不会剧透），但它确实应该让人感觉非常非常重要。

And so we are able to, like, try to live in a world that still feels like the world and that the stakes are high and that, like, when there is a life or death moment, it's like it was very important to us that, like, the final sequence of our pilot, which I won't spoil, but, like, that it should really, really feel extremely Yeah.

但在这些时刻之前仍然有笑料，其中也仍然存在尴尬的气氛。

But there are still jokes before them, and there's still awkwardness within it.

而且，你最好感到害怕。

And also, like, you better be scared.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

我想回过头来谈谈你之前提到的一点，这确实是个非常好的观点。

I wanna circle back to something you sort of raised through, but it was actually such a good point.

我想强调一下这一点。

I wanna sort of underline it.

你刚才谈到《广告狂人》，以及喜剧中角色如何为他人制造笑点铺垫。

You're talking about Mad Men and how in a comedy, the characters are there to set up the joke for someone to spike.

而在一部剧集中，这种感觉会非常奇怪。

And in a drama, you would that would feel really weird.

人们对于剧中人物如何表现出幽默的期待，与喜剧截然不同。

Like, there's just an expectation about sort of how people can be funny in a drama is just so different than a comedy.

这是一个非常明智的区分。

And so just a really smart distinction there.

谢谢你的分享。

Thank you for that.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yeah.

不客气。

You're very welcome.

最后再谈几件事。

A few last things.

所以，浏览剧本时，发现它有幕间分段。

So looking through the script, it has act breaks.

你在剧集中也能感受到这些分段。

And you feel them in the show also.

这些分段一直存在吗？

Is that something that was always there?

你有没有考虑过去掉它们？

Did you ever consider taking them out?

因为观众是在Peacock平台上观看的。

Because people are watching on a peacock.

他们可能会看到广告。

They might have ads.

也可能不会。

They might not

我们写的时候并没有考虑广告插播。

have We didn't write them with ad breaks.

我们被要求加入这些片段。

We had to we we we were asked to put them in.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

叙事的力量。

Storytelling power.

你们是在什么时候意识到谁真的能独自推动剧情的？

At what point did you know who could actually drive scenes by themselves?

比如在首集中，你们就确立了安德烈能独自撑起场景，嗯。

Because like in the pilot, you established that Andre can drive scenes by himself Mhmm.

那件事发生时确实让人意外。

Which was a surprise when that happened.

所以跟我聊聊，你们是什么时候决定谁能够独自支撑场景的？

So talk to me about, like, when you decided who could hold scenes by themselves.

从视角的角度来说？

Perspective wise?

是的。

Yeah.

幕后来说，我们加了安德烈的那场戏，是的。

Behind the curtain, like, we we added that scene of Andre Yeah.

很晚才加的。

Late.

那是整个剧集最后拍摄的一场戏，因为我们看了已经剪辑好的试播集，知道安德烈有多吓人——因为我们写剧本时就明确说过，他是你见过最可怕的人。

That was the last scene of the entire series that we shot because we were looking at the already cut pilot, and, you know, we knew how scary Andre was because we knew, because we wrote in the script, like, is the scariest person you've ever seen.

而且我们知道会发生什么。

And and we knew what would happen

在第二集。

in episode two.

我们知道第二集会发生什么，但我们需要让观众在看到他出现在 episode 结尾时，真正感受到对他的存在感到毛骨悚然。

We knew what would happen in episode two, but we needed to have the audience feel that when we see him at the end of the episode, that we are scared to death of his presence.

而且，我的意思是，我们选了一位出色但不知名的演员，阿奇姆·吉尔斯。

And, I mean, we cast a fantastic but unknown actor, Archim Giles.

而且，如果我们选了一位，比如，以演反派闻名的著名电影明星。

And, like, if we had cast, like, a famous movie star who was famous for being Yeah.

以演反派闻名的话，那我们就会提前知道，比如如果克里斯托弗·瓦尔兹走进来，我们就不会有

For being a villain, then we would've we we would already know, like if Christoph Waltz walked in, then we wouldn't have had

我们就不会

we wouldn't

不得不这么做。

have had to do that.

所以我们给了他视角，而且我觉得我们对角色以及他们带来的东西、谁拥有自己的场景了解得越来越多。

So we gave him perspective, and I think we just learned more and more about our characters and what they brought and who we who gets their own scenes.

所以戴恩，由阿德里安·莱斯特饰演，他是暮光的老板。

So Dane, Adrian Lester plays him, and he's he's he's being Twilight's boss.

他在很多剧集中都是一个难以捉摸的角色，而他带来的部分特质就是神秘感。

He is somebody who is elusive in a lot of the shows, and part of what he brings is mystery.

我们根本不知道他的生活究竟是什么样的。

Like, we don't know what his life is really like.

我们不知道他有什么秘密。

We don't know what his secrets are.

我们感觉他确实藏着秘密。

We have a sense that he has secrets.

所以我们真的想先拍几集，之后才能让他展现出脆弱的一面，透露一些他的秘密。

So we really wanted to build several episodes before we really kind of could see him be vulnerable and display some of his secrets.

而且你知道，我们逐渐看清了那幕布之后的人，因为在本季的前半部分，我们希望他呈现为一个在Twilight中表现得无所不知、深不可测的人。

And, you know, we get a sense of who that man behind the curtain is because for the first chunk of the season, we want to see him as this all knowing, unknowable person that he projects to be in Twilight.

而我们观众都知道，这不可能是真的，因为没有人会

And we, the audience, know that that couldn't be true because no one is

嗯，根据这个世界设定的规则，根本没人特别能干。

Well, as like the rules of the world, you've established, like, no one is especially competent.

他们并不是笨手笨脚地能干，而是能力非常有限，做不了多少事。

That there's there's it's not like they're bumblingly competent, but, they have very limited power and to do things.

literally，他们可以自己打开大楼的电源。

Like, literally, they can turn on the power to their own building.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以。

So.

是的。

Yeah.

这一点已经明确了。

Which is established.

让我们最后聊聊布达佩斯吧，因为我想你从一开始就知道拍摄地会是布达佩斯或类似的地方。

Let's wrap up by talking about Budapest because I think you probably knew that this was gonna be shooting in Budapest or someplace like it from the start.

它确实如此。

There's like It did.

这并不是一部非得去布达佩斯拍摄的剧。

It's not a show where, like, you're forced to go to Budapest.

就像，那是你去拍摄的地方。

Like, that's the place where you go to shoot.

对。

Right.

布达佩斯不是用来拍波士顿的。

Wasn't Budapest for Boston.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

那是你去拍莫斯科的地方。

That's a place you go to do Moscow.

它是个挺合理的地方。

It's like, it's a reasonable place.

嗯。

Mhmm.

谈谈在那里拍摄的经历吧，包括优缺点、你喜欢的地方、学到的经验，以及2025年在那里拍摄的情况。

Talk to us about shooting there, pros and cons, things you loved, things you learned, shooting there in 2025.

我的意思是，先说清楚一点，他们政府很糟糕，而且我们在那儿期间通过了一些非常糟糕的法律。

I mean, just to get out of the way, they have a bad government, and and they passed some really bad laws while we were there.

这使得在当地拍摄变得复杂。

And that did make shooting there complicated.

是的。

Yeah.

我们的制片公司律师非常出色、乐于助人且充满支持，他们努力确保每个人都能感到安全，因为我们在那儿期间他们通过了一些反同性恋的法律。

Our studio's lawyers were really great and helpful and supportive and just trying to, like, make sure that everybody felt safe, because they passed some anti gay laws while we were there.

在我们拍摄即将结束时，骄傲游行这件事非常感人，而那正是被他们禁止的活动。

And it was very actually moving at the very end of our production, The Pride Parade, which was a thing that they banned.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这座城市的人们还是照常举行了游行，而且

The people of the city did it anyway, and it was

来自其他欧洲城市的参与者是最多的，是的。

And came in from other European cities was the biggest yeah.

登上了《纽约时报》的封面。

So on the cover of the New York Times.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

规模比以往任何时候都更大。

Multilomps larger than it had ever been.

这是一个红色国家中的蓝色城市。

So it is a blue city in a red country.

我们的摄制组大部分都是进步且友善的。

Our crew, for the most part, was very progressive and and lovely.

但你知道，这很复杂。

And but, you know, it it's complicated.

布达佩斯的摄制组是来自欧洲各地，还是真的只是布达佩斯本地的团队？

Are are crews in Budapest drawn from around Europe, or is there it really is a Budapest group?

他们是

They are

他们是匈牙利人。

they're Hungarian.

他们主要是匈牙利人。

They're mostly Hungarian.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，通常他们有自己的本土电影产业，美国的也一样

I mean, typically, they have American they have like a homegrown film industry of their own

对。

Yeah.

那是另一回事。

That is a different thing.

但事实上，他们确实是许多人的家园。

But then they they really are like home to many.

这个国家巨大的经济部分，就是在那里拍摄的电影和电视节目，主要是美国和英国的制作。

This huge economic part of the country is like the the film and TV that shoots there, mostly American and and UK productions.

他们拥有令人难以置信的顶尖人才团队，都是行业内的高手，还有很多外籍人士，比如我们节目里的录音师，他之前还参与过《007：大破天幕杀机》《火星救援》等影片。

They have an incredible, like, brain trust and and really skilled top of their game people and a lot and actually some expats, like our sound guy on on our show who also did spy who dumped me did the Martian and did all that.

但他是个美国人，曾在德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校读书，

But he's he's an American guy who went to, like, UT Austin and

嗯。

Mhmm.

原本住在洛杉矶，九十年代有人请他去布达佩斯拍电影，他就留在了布达佩斯，娶了匈牙利妻子，还在这里组建了家庭。

Was living out in LA, and someone said, come do a movie in Budapest in the nineties, and then he just stayed in Budapest and married a Hungarian and had a family there.

所以那里有很多外籍人士居住，而且这座城市非常习惯接待那些希望置身于一种电影制作专属‘泡泡’中的人。

So there's a lot of people there that are like there's expats living there, and then it's a city that's very used to hosting people who wanna be insulated in a in a sort of bubble of Yeah.

一个电影的泡泡。

Of a film.

所以，如果你只想住在四季酒店之类的地方，它并不会强行让你融入当地文化。

So it's not aggressively thrusting you into the culture if you wanna be, like, staying at the Four Seasons and whatever.

我的意思是，以我们的预算不行，但有预算的话是可以的。

I mean, not on our budget, but on a budget, you can.

它具备那些配套设施。

It has those amenities.

所以我觉得它相当友好、易用。

So it I think it's it's sort of, like, user friendly.

但与此同时，如果你在那里待上几周以上，你确实能感受到。

But at the same time, if you stay there more than a couple weeks, you do.

你能明显体会到这座城市在政治等方面暗流涌动的气息。

You just can feel the undercurrent of what's going on in that, like, politically and otherwise, you know, in the city.

而且那里也很美。

And it's also beautiful.

而且我们的剧集需要大量美学元素，我们的布景都做得非常精美，我们是在摄影棚里拍摄的。

And there is so much aesthetic that we needed from our show that we had sets, and our sets were beautifully built, and we were on a stage.

但我想说，我们大概70%是在实景拍摄。

But I would say we were probably 70% location.

是的。

Yeah.

很多这些地点都像时间胶囊一样，我们置身于这些美丽的古老建筑中，它们看起来极其出色，而在其他地方我们根本不可能实现这样的效果。

And a lot of those locations felt like we were in time capsules, where we were in these beautiful old buildings that just looked incredible that we just simply would not be able to accomplish in another place.

我们曾考虑过，

We looked into like,

我之前在布拉格拍过《Small Light》，所以我们考察了几个类似的地方，比如布拉格和柏林。

I had shot Small Light in Prague, and so we looked into a couple places like Prague and Berlin.

对。

Yeah.

随着事情的发展，

Just sort of as things developed.

而且，我觉得那样做会更贵，制作价值也会低很多，我们可能还得派一个卫星团队去布达佩斯或者类似的地方。

And, know, I think it would have been more expensive, and we would have had a lot less production value, and we would have probably had to send a satellite crew to Budapest anyway or a place like it.

所以我们决定不那么做。

So we we just decided not to to do that.

但这很复杂，我的意思是，这其实和在通过了相关法律的州拍摄一样，都是同样的争论。

But it's complicate I mean, it's it's it's the same argument or the same debate, I guess, about, like, shooting in a state that passes Yeah.

这里有关于龙裔法律的问题。

Dragonian laws here.

你可能会想，我想拍我的作品，但同时也想雇佣当地的人。

And you're like, well, I wanna make my thing, but also and I wanna employ the people.

我不愿意因为当地人住在那儿就惩罚那些剧组人员。

I don't wanna punish the crews that are living there for living there.

但另一方面，我又想表达一个立场，这似乎很重要，但我也拿不定主意。

But also, do I wanna make a statement, which is seems important to do, but also I don't know.

这真的很有挑战性。

It it's really challenging

是的。

Yeah.

弄清楚这一点。

To figure that out.

你知道的。

You know?

我们不可能在所有地方都拍摄。

We can't shoot everything in.

我甚至想不出一个现在没有问题的国家名称了，算了。

I don't even know what country to name that isn't problematic now, so never mind.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

格陵兰。

Greenland.

不行。

No.

开玩笑的。

Just kidding.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

委内瑞拉？

Venezuela?

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

总的来说，这是一个充满挑战的时期。

It's a it's a challenging time overall.

恭喜你这档节目。

Congratulations on the show.

我真的

I really

谢谢。

just Thank you.

很喜欢。

Dug it.

随着这一集的播出，它即将在Peacock平台首播。

It's so as this episode's coming out, it's just about to debut on Peacock.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得是两天后。

I think it's two days later.

两天后，两天后。

Two days Two days later.

虽然我很遗憾Craig没有在这里，但我觉得，就这部由在新泽西州弗里霍尔上过高中的人创作的、关于苏联的电视剧而言，这一集我们是目前最顶尖的。

And and although I'm sad Craig isn't here, I like that on this episode, as far as television shows created by people who went to high school in Freehold, New Jersey about The USSR, we're we're the top one on this episode.

这一集。

This episode.

是的。

Yeah.

非常好。

Very nice.

非常好。

Very nice.

我们来回答一些听众的问题。

Let's answer some listener questions.

我们这里有一个来自理查德的问题。

We have one here from Richard.

我发现，我可以在某一天看着一个场景，觉得这是我写过最糟糕的东西。

I find I can look at a scene on a particular day and think it's the worst thing I've ever written.

然后两天后，我再拿起来看，觉得其实也没那么糟。

And then two days later, I pick it back up and think, oh, that's actually not that bad.

你们也有这种感觉吗？

Do you guys get this too?

如果有，我们该如何真正信任自己的判断呢？

And if so, how can we ever truly trust our own judgment?

我很少读到自己的东西时会说，哦，这简直糟透了。

I I rarely do I read something and say, oh, this is absolutely awful.

但说实话，更常见的情况是，我写的时候觉得特别喜欢。

Like but there honestly, the reverse happens more like, well, I absolutely love something when I wrote it.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我再回头看，发现这其实是一篇论文。

And then I go back, it's like, oh, it's actually an essay.

写完就完了。

Like, wrote it and done.

是的。

Yeah.

绝对。

Absolutely.

激进。

Aggressive.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，我能感同身受的是，当我完成一件事时，我觉得自己很满意。

I mean, I think what I can relate to is I finished something, and I think I'm happy with it.

它达到了我想要的效果，但我还是希望有人能帮我看看。

It did what I needed to do, but I do want a set of eyes on it.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为要做到这一点，你只需要一小群你真正尊重和信任的人组成一个核心圈子。

And I think for that, you just need to have a very small brain trust of people that you really respect and trust.

如果你有伴侣，或者有朋友，有人不会在你做得不好时骗你。

If you have a partner, if you have a friend, somebody who won't lie to you if it's Yeah.

如果他们告诉你，‘这真的很好’，即使你说得不好，这也很有意义。

Bad will also be meaningful if if they tell you, you know, this is really this is really good.

你做得真的很棒。

You did a really good job.

我觉得有时候这样会有帮助。

I think sometimes that is helpful.

我也觉得，不断回头去重读几天前写过的场景是一种陷阱，因为如果你总是这样，一看就讨厌一切，那你写下一个场景时会非常困难。

I also think that it is a trap to keep going back and reading the scene that you wrote a few days ago because if you are somebody whose head does that, who looks at it and then hates everything, you're really gonna have a hard time writing that next scene.

所以，试着先完成一个版本。

So just try to finish a version of it.

是的。

Yeah.

我会说，尽量完成它，然后在你感觉准备好让人朗读时，那也会非常有用。

I would say try to finish it, and then at whatever point you feel comfortable hearing it read out loud, that's really useful too.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，我们曾经在戴夫的车库里为自己写的剧本举办过朗读会，每次都非常有启发性。

Like, we've had readings of of scripts that we've written just for ourselves, like in Dave's Garage, and it's really incredibly informative every time.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

挑战在于，理查德，你既是创作者又是评论者。

The challenge, Richard, is you're always, you're both the creator and the critic.

所以当你写作时，你是创作者，对作品有一种感觉。

And so at the time you were writing it, you were the creator and, like, you had this feeling about it.

但同时你也是评论者，这个评论者就像是你大脑中另一个独立的部分。

And then you're also the critic, and that critic is sort of a separate part of your brain.

也许你的评论者是个混蛋。

And maybe your critic's an asshole.

也许你的内心批评者会想：这并不好，就像大卫之前说的，你喜欢帮助别人，帮助作家，提供支持，也许你的内在批评者其实并不正确。

Maybe your critic is like, this is not good in the like, David, you were saying earlier about how you you love helping out a person and helping out helping out a writer just like contributing and sort of like, maybe your inner critic is just not actually Right.

识别什么是好的，以及如何改进它。

Recognizing what's good and then how to improve it.

只是看到所有的缺陷。

It's just like seeing all the the flaws.

然后也许可以稍微培养一下这个批评者。

And then maybe just cultivate that critic a little bit more.

也许多和其他人聊聊他们的作品，对他们友善一些，会让你对自己也更宽容一些。

Maybe talking to some other people about their work and being gracious with them will get you to be a little bit nicer to yourself.

嗯。

Mhmm.

丹尼尔的问题。

Question from Daniel.

我是洛杉矶一所电影学院的大二编剧专业学生。

I am a sophomore screenwriting student at an LA film school.

我能感觉到，每写完一个剧本，我的写作水平都在提高。

I can tell my writing does get better with every script.

但我并不确定自己是否拥有你们常说的那种天赋或能力。

But I'm not sure if I have that innate talent or ability you guys always speak about.

主要是因为，每次我以为自己已经掌握了，实际上并没有。

Mainly because with every script where I say, I think I got it, I in fact do not have it.

你们是怎么意识到自己拥有这种天赋的？花了多长时间？

How do you guys realize that you have this innate talent, and how long did it take?

关于第一点，我想分享一本最近出版的、但我没写的书《艺术的工作》中的见解。

Well, just to speak to the first part, I just wanna offer some wisdom from a book that I didn't write called The Work of Art that came out recently.

我认为迈克尔·坎宁安提到过，他不相信存在所谓的天赋。

And I think it's Michael Cunningham who talks about the fact that he doesn't believe that there is such a thing as innate talent.

真正重要的是，拥有这样一种性格：极度执着于把事情做到完美，不断反复打磨，直到它变得出色。

It's just having a personality that is so obsessively committed to something being good that it will just keep drilling down into something over and over and over until it becomes good.

对他来说，这才是让人变得有才华的原因，而不是与生俱来的任何东西。

That to him is what makes a person skillful, not anything that they're innately born with.

我不完全同意这一点，但确实让我产生共鸣的是，我所钦佩的那些人身上都有一种执着，我觉得他们都有这种特质。

I don't know that I agree with that completely, but it did resonate with me that there's an obsessiveness that people have who I admire that I think they share.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这个问题与上一个问题紧密相关。

I think this question is very married to the previous question.

首先，我大学时写的东西，现在绝不会拿它当作我最好的作品来展示。

I mean, first of all, definitely the stuff I wrote when I was in college, I wouldn't share it now as a reflection of my best work.

但在我的青春期、大学时期，甚至二十岁出头的时候，我曾写过一些场景、一句台词，或者产生过某个想法，当时真的让我无比兴奋。

But there were moments throughout my adolescence or into college or into, like, my early twenties where I would write a scene or a line or a or or have an idea, and I would just it would excite me.

我会想，哦，对，就是这个了。

It would be like, oh, like, that's it.

这就是我一直在努力追求的东西。

Like, I I this is this is what I'm trying to do.

我无法想象，如果没有过任何形式的这种感觉，我还能对写作保持热情。

And I couldn't imagine not having any version of that and still being excited about writing.

所以我得假设，你必须得给这个问题一些善意，相信你一定有过某个让你兴奋到开始去做的时刻。

So I've got to assume I've got to give the question, give her the benefit of the doubt that you must have had some sort of moment that excited you enough to start doing it.

然后，你知道，从那以后，你就得不断变得更好。

And, you know, and from there, like, yeah, you just have to keep getting better.

但你可能确实拥有这种能力，同时很多非常有才华的人却担心自己没有这种天赋。

But you may have it, and also a lot of very talented people worry that they don't have that talent.

这也是一个非常真实的现象，人们

That is also a very real thing that people

是的。

Yeah.

在你职业生涯早期感到自己是个冒牌货，这完全是自然、合理且合乎情理的。

Feeling impostor syndrome at this point in your early career is totally natural and reasonable and and makes sense.

因为你并不清楚自己究竟在做什么，这确实是真的。

Like, you don't know sort of what you're doing, and that's true.

我希望，当你进入电影学院、现在是大二的时候，一定有人告诉过你：‘你是个不错的作家。’

I hope that in entering in film school, you're a sophomore now, people must have told you like, oh, you're a good writer.

而且你已经获得了一些外部认可，比如，你真的懂得怎么做这件事。

And you've had some external validation that like, oh, you really know how to do this.

这很好。

This is good.

但也有过一些时刻，你觉得自己写的这个东西真的很棒。

But there have been some moments where you felt like yourself, oh, this was a good thing I wrote.

我对自己做的这件事感到由衷的自豪。

Like, I'm actually proud of this thing I did.

这才是根本。

And that's foundational.

这会推动你继续走向下一个作品。

That's just sort of gonna get you going to the next one.

这周我看到一个梗，说的是要把自己看作一个动词，而不是名词。

There's this sort of meme I saw this week about thinking of yourself as a verb rather than a noun.

所以，把自己看作一个写作者，而不是最终的作品。

And so thinking of you as the person who writes rather than the end product.

所以我不确定。

And so I don't know.

也许明年可以专注于把写作当作一个动作，而不是不断产出这样那样的东西，看看你是否真的享受这个过程本身。

Just maybe spend this next year really focusing on writing as the verb versus, like, generating this thing and that thing and that thing and see if you're if you'd like the actual process of doing it.

我们在节目中经常谈论写作有多糟糕。

We We talk on the show so much about how writing kinda sucks.

就像，这根本不是一件有趣的事，但你渐渐学会了与之和解。

Like, it's not a fun thing to do, but you sort of make peace with it.

你开始接受，这是通往让你真正自豪的作品的过程中不可或缺的一部分。

You come to accept that it's part of this process of of getting to work that you're really proud of.

所以也许可以稍微多关注这一点，而不是作品的质量，看看你是否真的喜欢它。

And so maybe just focus a little bit more on that rather than the quality and see if you're if you're digging it.

是的。

Yeah.

我还觉得，在你和你的笔记本、电脑或任何你写作的工具之外，世界上存在着很多噪音。

I also think there's a lot of noise outside the world of just you and your laptop or your notebook or whatever you write.

当外界的噪音变得非常大时，想要专注于内心那份真正的兴奋点就会变得极其困难。

And that when the noise gets really loud, it can be really hard to just focus on the actual, like, nugget of excitement that you have.

现在我经常和朋友聊天，当人们谈论这个行业有多艰难时，空气中充满了大量的负面情绪。

And I talk to friends a lot now as people talk about how hard the industry is, and there's a ton of just, like, negativity in the air.

无论你做什么来欺骗你的大脑，让它对某件事产生兴奋感，然后坐下来投入工作，就像约翰说的那样，最重要的就是保持乐观和对所做之事的热情，不要让外界的声音或你内心的批评者阻止你真正地产出东西。

Whatever you have to do to trick your brain into just being excited about a thing and sitting down and doing the work, like John was saying, that's kind of the most important thing you can do is just to stay optimistic and excited about whatever it is you're working on and not let the outside voices or your own internal critic, like, stop you from actually just producing things.

如果是这样，那就找到那个火花，不管它是什么。

If so, find find the spark, whatever that is.

我知道这听起来像个陈词滥调，但它真的很重要。

I know that sounds like a cliche, but it's really important

但如果你找到了那个火花，我认为也很合理地说，如果你决定这根本不是你真正喜欢或享受的事情，说‘不’是可以的。

But if I find that spark, I think it's also reasonable to say, like, if you decide, like, this is not actually a thing you'd like, a thing you would enjoy, it's okay to say no.

找到你真正热爱的其他事情也没关系。

It's okay to find something else you really do love.

你只活一次。

You only have the one life.

所以去做那些真正让你兴奋并享受的事情吧。

So do do the thing that actually really excites you and you enjoy it.

与其谈论与生俱来的天赋或能力，不如想想你有哪些兴趣，哪些事情是你真正想花时间去做的。

So more than talking about like an innate aptitude or something like you're born with a certain talent, maybe you have a set of interests and things that you actually wanna be spending your time doing.

如果这不是你要找的，也没关系。

And if this isn't it, that's fine.

这很好。

That's good.

去寻找那些你真正热爱的事情吧。

Go searching for what the thing is that you actually do really love.

我的意思是，这可能是一个值得在另一期节目中深入探讨的大话题，但我最近花了很多时间思考：这一切的意义到底是什么？嗯。

I mean, this is probably a bigger conversation for a whole other episode of this show, but I have really I've spent a lot of time lately wrestling with what is the point Mhmm.

是为什么。

Of this.

并不是说

Not that

我觉得它

I think it

没有意义，但就像，我现在处于一个将作品发布到世界中的位置，这非常令人害怕。

is without a point, but, like, as I am in a position to like, I'm releasing something out into the world, which is very scary.

是的。

Yeah.

我想起我刚搬到洛杉矶的时候，刚想从事电影和电视行业时，我脑子里有个想法，希望有一天能坐在电影院里，看到自己的名字出现在大银幕上。

And I think about when I first moved to Los Angeles, when I first wanted to work in film and television, and, you know, when I had this idea in my head that I wanted to, like, manifest of, like, sitting in a movie theater and seeing my name up there.

但那现在已不再是我追求的目标了，尽管我也说不清现在的目标到底是什么。

That does not feel like what the goal is now, though I can't necessarily pinpoint what it is.

我喜欢写作。

I do like writing.

我喜欢创造东西。

I do like making things.

但这也是一件让我极度恐惧的事。

It is also a thing that terrifies me.

所以我觉得，对于像我这样从事这个行业几十年的人来说，要弄清楚我们为什么这么做，真的是一件非常棘手的事。如果你正处于职业生涯的初期，还在犹豫不决，那或许也是一个不错的信号，说明你可能需要重新思考？

So I think it is a really tricky thing for me, for for all of us, people who've been doing this for decades, to make sense of why we're doing So if you are kind of on the fence in your, like, first years, that is also might be a good sign that it may you know?

但同时也要明白，我们自己也在苦苦思索这件事的意义所在，因为这确实很复杂。

But but also just know that we are also wrestling with what the point is because it's it's it's complicated.

是的。

Yeah.

这里有个来自卡洛斯的问题。

A question here from Carlos.

几周前，我参加了一个由一家大型制作公司前高管主持的提案研讨会。

A few weeks back, I partook in a pitching workshop with a former executive from a big production company.

这位前高管说的一句话让我特别不舒服。

One thing this former executive said really rubbed me the wrong way.

他告诉我们，别再写试播集了。

He told us to stop writing pilots.

他说，如今很多高管如果看到提案附带试播集，反而会拒绝，因为他们希望从开发初期就参与进来。

He said that today, a lot of executives will turn down series pitches if they have a pilot attached because they wanna be involved in the development stage from the beginning.