联邦宇宙实验

本集《搜索引擎》由MUBI部分赞助播出，MUBI是一家致力于推广优秀电影的全球电影公司。

This episode of Search Engine is brought to you in part by MUBI, the global film company that champions great cinema.

从标志性导演到新锐作者，总有新的作品等待你去发现。

From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's always something new to discover.

通过MUBI，每一部电影都经过精心挑选，让你探索电影的极致之美。

With MUBI, each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema.

如果你在寻找非凡之作，千万别错过《父亲的阴影》，该片将于2月13日登陆美国影院。

If you're looking for something extraordinary, don't miss My Father's Shadow, coming to US theaters on February 13.

该片由阿卡诺拉·戴维斯·小执导，是历史上首部入围戛纳电影节主竞赛单元的尼日利亚电影。

Directed by Akanola Davies Junior, it's the first Nigerian film ever in official competition at Cannes.

这部诗意而温柔的故事，讲述了一位父亲与他两个年幼儿子在1993年充满政治氛围的拉各斯城中，如何维系彼此的关系。

This poetic and tender story follows a father and his two young sons navigating their relationship against the vibrant, politically charged city of Lagos in 1993.

影片由现实生活中的兄弟阿卡诺拉·戴维斯·小和瓦勒·戴维斯编剧，由夏派·达里舒主演，悄然揭示了家庭中那些未曾言说的羁绊。

Written by real life brothers Akanola Davies junior and Wale Davies and starring Xhapae Darishu, it's a film that quietly uncovers the unspoken bonds of family.

无论你已是优秀电影的忠实爱好者，还是刚刚开始接触，MUBI都将世界最顶尖的影片直接带到你的屏幕前。

Whether you're already a lover of great cinema or just discovering it, Mubi brings the world's best films straight to your screen.

要观看最优质的电影，您可以在 mubi.com/search-engine 免费试用三十天。

To stream the best of cinema, you can try Mubi free for thirty days at mubi.com/ search engine.

访问 mubi.com/search-engine，即可免费享受一整月的优质电影。

That's mubi.com slash search engine for a whole month of great cinema for free.

你好，欢迎来到新的一年。

Hello, and welcome to a new year.

搜索引擎在2026年的重大目标是：探索如何真正修复互联网。

Search engine's big resolution for 2026, we are looking at ways the Internet could actually be fixed.

互联网存在的问题众所周知，总结起来都觉得多余。

The problems with our Internet are so well known, it feels dumb to summarize them.

还有谁没意识到，2026年的互联网被少数几个社交媒体平台主导，它们极其擅长通过激发我们最糟糕的本能来攫取我们的注意力？

Like, who is the person left alive who needs me to explain to them that our 2026 Internet is dominated by a few social media platforms who are brilliant at harvesting our attention by appealing to our worst instincts?

我们都明白这一点。

We all know this.

我们都经历过那种刷完社交媒体后产生的悔恨感——明明只想看一会儿，却不知不觉刷了太久，结果让自己、朋友，甚至整个世界都显得更糟糕了。

We've all experienced the kind of gooners remorse after we've spent more time than we meant to, mindlessly thumbing a feed that makes us feel worse about ourselves, our friends, the world.

因此，抱怨这个问题已经恶化了十年，这已经成了老生常谈。

So it's cliche to complain about this problem that's only gotten worse for the last decade.

但今年、这周，我们谈论它，是因为我们对解决方案充满好奇，哪怕是一些理想主义的方案。

But this week, this year, we're talking about it because we are curious about solutions, even possibly quixotic ones.

本着这种精神，我其实想重新回顾一下，过去那个可能更愤世嫉俗的我，曾经在节目中试图跳过的一个时刻。

And in that spirit, I actually wanna revisit a moment that an earlier, maybe more cynical version of me tried to brush past on our show.

它最早是在2024年5月的节目中出现的。

It first came up on air way back in May 2024.

我当时正在采访凯西·牛顿，他是《硬核》播客的联合主持人，也是《平台者》的作者。

I was interviewing Casey Newton, cohost of the Hard Fork podcast, the writer behind Platformer.

我们正在进行一场令人沮丧的、再熟悉不过的关于互联网的对话，我问凯西，是否有什么令人期待的希望，有什么让他感到乐观的东西。

We were having a depressingly familiar conversation about the Internet, and I asked Casey whether there was anything hopeful around the corner, anything that made him feel optimistic.

我对这个问题有一个最棒、最糟、最宅的答案，PJ，那就是我们必须完成Fetaverse的建设。

I have the best, worst, dorkiest answer to that question, PJ, which is that we have to finish building the Fetaverse.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yes.

你的意思是，就像这样，好吧， Fetaverse。

You mean, like so, okay, the fetaverse.

你已经对我让你谈论这个感到不快了，这没关系。

You're already so upset that I'm making you talk about this, and that's fine.

你确实应该这样。

You should be.

我们都应该对必须谈论 Fetaverse 感到不满。

We should all be upset that we have to talk about the fetaverse.

谈谈 Fetaverse，但要用我妈妈能听懂的方式。

Talk about the fetaverse, but in a way that my mom can understand it.

对。

Yeah.

所以，Fetaverse 是一种让人们重新夺回互联网控制权的方式。

So the fetaverse is a way for people to take back the Internet for themselves.

这是一种拥有身份并在线连接对你重要的事物的方式，而无需担心必须应对谷歌算法或脸书算法。

It's a way to have an identity and connect to other things that are important to you online and just not worry about having to fight through a Google algorithm or a Facebook algorithm.

事实上，如果你愿意，你甚至可以使用自己的算法。

In fact, you could bring your own algorithm if you want to.

我到现在为止解释费德宇宙的方式实在太糟糕了。

I'm already doing such a bad job of explaining what the Fedeverse is.

我得承认，凯西在解释这件事时表现得并不好，这对我来说是个警示。

Casey was, I have to admit, doing a not so great job of explaining this thing, which to me was a warning.

凯西一向很擅长解释互联网现象。

Casey's very good at explaining Internet phenomena.

如果他在这里都显得吃力，也许这个话题对我们这样的播客来说实在太深奥了。

If he was flailing here, maybe the topic was just too dense for a podcast like ours.

我不确定该如何处理这个问题。

I wasn't sure how to handle it.

因此，在那一集的播客中，我做出了一个半心半意的承诺：如果我们收到大量听众来信，要求更深入地解释费德宇宙，那我们就去研究一下。

And so in that episode on mic, I made this half hearted promise, which is that if we got lots of listener emails asking for a more in-depth explanation of the fetaverse, then we would look into it.

我根本没指望会收到什么反馈。

I really was not expecting much feedback at all.

相反，我们收到了海量邮件，比以往任何话题的邮件都多。

Instead, we got so many emails, more than we'd ever gotten on any topic.

仅仅是一个暗示——更好的互联网可能就在那里，我们只需要把它完成——这让人们非常感兴趣。

Just the whisper of a notion that some better Internet was out there and that all we had to do was finish building it, that was something people were very curious about.

因此，那一年，我开始接触一些正在构建联邦宇宙的人。

So that year, I started talking to some of the people trying to build the Fetaverse.

这些人告诉我的故事是这样的。

The story these people told me went like this.

基本上，尽管他们彼此差异很大，但都对互联网出了什么问题有着共同的看法。

Basically, all of them, as different as they were from one another, had a shared view of what had gone wrong with our Internet.

在他们看来，九十年代，甚至二十一世纪初，我们的互联网真正是一个开放的空间。

The way they saw it, in the nineties, even in the early two thousands, our Internet had truly been an open place.

无数的网站，无数由各种背景、各种价值观的人所填充的论坛，人们可以自由地在自己创建的小社区里生活。

Infinite websites, infinite message boards populated by all sorts of people with all sorts of values, free to live how they wanted in the little neighborhoods they'd made.

如果你想要在那个互联网上换家，比如把邮箱从雅虎换成Gmail，虽然有点烦，但也不是什么大问题。

If you wanted to move homes on that Internet, say, switch your email from Yahoo to Gmail, it was mildly annoying, but not a huge deal.

但后来社交媒体出现了。

But then social media arrived.

要使用这些平台，通常你需要注册一个专属账号。

To access those platforms, you usually needed a dedicated account.

一旦你在那个账号上开始发帖，你就进入了一场争夺尽可能多粉丝的游戏。

Once you started posting on that account, you were now in a game to build as large a following as possible.

如果你成功建立了一个庞大的粉丝群，你就再也不想离开这个平台了，因为离开就意味着失去你的受众。

And if you're able to build one, you never wanted to leave that platform, since leaving would mean losing your audience.

用户们迅速而愉快地涌入了这个更加封闭的互联网，与此同时，他们把大量权力交给了掌控这些平台的巨头们。

Users filed quickly and happily into this more closed Internet, and along the way, they handed a lot of power to the moguls running it.

这些巨头制定了规则，而我们只能忍气吞声。

The moguls set the rules, and we had to put up with them.

如果我们中有谁有意见，我们的选择要么是实质上离开互联网，要么更糟的是，在这些平台本身上抱怨，把我们的愤怒转化为那些我们所不满的人的更多收入。

If any of us had issues, our choices were to functionally leave the Internet, or worse, complain on the very platforms themselves, turning our anger into just a little more money for the people we were angry with.

但元宇宙的架构者们，他们有一个更激进的想法。

But the architects of the Fetaverse, they had a more radical idea.

他们所持的愿景是，将社交媒体的控制权从马斯克和扎克伯格手中夺回，重新导向一个更开放的互联网，在那里，没有任何巨头能拥有如今这般权力。

The vision they held was that they could take control of social media out of the hands of the Musks and Zuckerbergs and reroute it back towards more open Internet, where no mogul would ever have the same kind of power they do now.

这是他们的狂野梦想，他们夜以继日地工作，分文不取，只为构建元宇宙所需的数字基础设施。

That was their wild dream, and they were working on nights and weekends for no money, just building out the digital infrastructure that a fetiverse would require.

建立共享协议，打造开放标准，编写首批去中心化社交媒体平台的代码。

Establishing shared protocols, building an open standard, coding the first federated social media platforms.

这一切都大胆至极。

All of this was audacious.

他们的梦想规模宏大，却资源匮乏。

The scale of their dream combined with their meager resources.

这些人正试图在车库里，用旧汽车零件造出一艘千年隼。

These are people trying to build a Millennium Falcon in their garage out of old car parts.

而时至今日，那个元宇宙，已经存在了。

And as of today, that fetaverse, it exists.

你可以访问它。

You can visit it.

如果你去访问，你会发现它与你熟悉的互联网运作方式不同。

And if you do, you'll see that it functions differently from the Internet you're used to.

在我们普通的互联网上，如果你想关注朋友并阅读他们的推文，就必须在 x.com 上注册账户，这是埃隆·马斯克的平台。

On our normal Internet, if you wanna follow a friend to read their tweets, you have to sign up for an account on x.com, Elon Musk's platform.

你必须遵守他的规则。

You have to follow his rules.

你必须信任他处理你的私信。

You have to trust him with your direct messages.

默认情况下，你看到的内容是按照他的算法排序的。

By default, you're offered posts in the order his algorithm chooses.

在联邦互联网上，如果你的朋友在 Mastodon 这样的联邦平台上发布微博客，你可以从联邦宇宙的任何地方关注他们的账号。

On the federated Internet, if you have a friend microblogging on a federated platform like Mastodon, you can follow their account from anywhere in the Fetaverse.

你根本不需要注册 Mastodon 本身。

You don't ever have to join odon itself.

如果你的主平台被某个情绪化的科技巨头收购了，你可以离开。

And if your home platform does get bought by some temperamental tech mogul, you can leave.

只要具备一点技术能力，当你出现在新的联邦互联网家园时，你会拥有之前所有的关注者。

And given a little technical expertise, when you pop up at your new federated Internet home, you'll have all of the followers you did before.

这令人兴奋。

It is exciting.

但它仍然非常难以理解，更难解释。

It is also still incredibly hard to understand and harder to explain.

如果我想真正理解它的潜力和潜在问题，我就需要亲自体验一下Fetaverse。

If I wanted to really get the potential of this and the pitfalls of it, I would need to experience the Fetaverse for myself.

于是我回到了演播室，这次带着凯西和凯文·罗斯——他在播客《Hard Fork》中的联合主持人——来讨论一项实验。

So I went back into the studio, this time with Casey and Kevin Roos, his cohost on the podcast Hard Fork, to discuss an experiment.

哦，凯西。

Oh, Casey.

是的。

Yeah.

你好像被静音了。

You're muted somehow.

哦，谢天谢地。

Oh, thank god.

这是做播客的理想环境。

This is the ideal setting for a podcast.

别做任何改变。

Don't change a thing.

现在你能听到我吗？

Can you hear me now?

能。

Yes.

好了。

There we go.

你好。

Hi.

我们做到了，家人。

We did it, fam.

我们三个人都是千禧一代，年纪大到能用‘家人’这样的词，但也足够年长，曾经历过更有趣的互联网时代，见证了它的变迁。

The three of us were all millennials, old enough to use words like fam, but also old enough to have grown up on a more fun version of the Internet, to have seen it change.

我们相信它依然可以再次改变。

And we believed it could still change again.

但如果元宇宙的承诺是明天的乌托邦，那我们想知道的是，今天又如何呢？

But if the promise of the Fetaverse was utopia tomorrow, what we wanted to know was, what about today?

凯文有一个想法，可以找到答案。

And Kevin had had an idea about how to find out.

我认为我们应该在元宇宙上创建一个社交媒体平台。

I think we should start a social media platform on the Fetaverse.

在元宇宙上？

In the Fetaverse?

是用‘在’还是‘于’？

Is it on or in?

总之，

Anyway,

我们会一路找答案。

we'll find out along the way.

等等。

But wait.

但为什么？你们到底想达到什么目的？

Why why do you want to what will be the point?

顺便说一句，我觉得你们说的并不是要创建一个新的社交网络。

And by the way, like, I don't really think you're talking about starting a new social network.

你们说的是要在Fetaverse上搭建一个服务器。

You're talking about, like, creating a server on the Fetaverse.

对吧？

Right?

就是说，一个地方，让其他人——不管是Hardfork的听众，还是Search Engine的听众，谁都可以来，注册账号，但然后呢？

Like, a place where other people, you know, whether it's listeners to Hardfork or listeners to Search Engine, whoever, they can come and they can create accounts there, but, like, then what?

我可以告诉你一些‘然后呢’。

I can tell you some then what.

是的。

Yeah.

然后PJ可以告诉我们‘然后呢’。

Then PJ can tell us then what.

对我来说，现在还处于非常早期的阶段，我甚至都不想说我们在报道这些人所描述的梦想是什么。

For me, if right now, you know, very early into our I I don't even wanna say reporting, like, of what the dream these people are trying to describe is.

我的理解是，我们所构建的社交媒体互联网的一个主要问题是，你所使用的平台会引导你接受什么样的行为。

Like, my understanding is that, basically, one of the problems with the social media Internet we've built is that the platform you show up on is going to guide acceptable behavior.

比如，Twitter会让你习惯用标语式表达。

Like, Twitter is gonna make you think in bumper stickers.

Instagram会让你觉得你认识的每个人都很瘦，或者正在度假之类的。

Instagram is gonna make you realize that everyone you know is, like, thinner and on vacation or whatever.

而我们能成为怎样的人、如何彼此互动的界限，都是由这些平台设定的。

And that the the sort of boundaries of what kind of person we can be and how we can interact with each other are set by the platforms.

尽管可能有人对这些平台如何运作有更健康或不同的想法，但由于你总是想前往你认识的人都在的地方，这些新想法很少能传播开来。

And that while there might be people with healthier or just different ideas about how these platforms could work, because you wanna go to the place where everyone you know already is, those new ideas don't circulate very often.

因此，作为一项可检验的实验，而不仅仅是我们作为记者能做的一个噱头，我想知道：作为一个真正对社交媒体和互联网深恶痛绝、几乎像阿米什人一样避之不及的人，和你们一起，尝试建立一个真正有更健康规则的社群会是什么样子？

And so what I find interesting as a testable game, and not just like sort of like a stunt that we could do because we're journalists, is, well, as someone who really truly has become almost Amish in my dislike of social media internet, with you guys, what would it be like to try to make a clubhouse that has rules that actually feel healthier?

我们会学到的，不仅仅是显而易见的——打造一个优秀的互联网实在太难了。

And what will we learn about not just like obviously, it's very hard to make a good Internet.

我认为没人真正做到过。

I don't think anyone's done it.

但更重要的是，那些可能比我们更聪明、更有耐心或更执着的人，他们能用什么样的工具来实现这一点？

But like, how good are the tools with which someone perhaps smarter, more patient, or more committed than us might be able to do it?

这才是我觉得这件事有趣的地方。

That's what I find interesting about it.

我想说，别误会，我不是在唱反调，但我觉得我们会像所有建立网络论坛的人一样学到一件事：人们形形色色。

I will say, not to be a bit of a hater, but, like, I think we will learn what most people learn when they set up web forums of all kinds, which is there's a lot of different kinds of people.

有些人很烦人。

Some are annoying.

总有两三个家伙喋喋不休，他们让很多好的对话泡汤，因为把所有人都惹毛了。

There's two or three that never stop talking, and they drive away a lot of good conversation because they infuriate everyone.

对吧？

Right?

有些人只是来试探规则，往聊天里发仇恨言论。

Some people show up just to sort of test the rules and, like, put hate speech in the chat.

你知道，当你挂出招牌，说‘嘿’的时候，会发生什么。

You know, we know what happens when you, like, put out your shingle and and say, hey.

这里有个新的网络论坛。

There's a new web form here.

但这种想法太悲观了，凯西。

But that is so fundamentally pessimistic, Casey.

我得指出这一点，因为这正是我们今天平台的设计方式。

I have to call you out on that because it that is the way that our platforms today are designed.

这些平台正是以明示或默许的方式鼓励这种行为。

That is the behavior that they sort of encourage either explicitly or tacitly.

但你看维基百科。

But, like, look at Wikipedia.

维基百科是一个集体性的互联网实验，本来不该成功的。

Like, Wikipedia is a collective Internet experiment that shouldn't have worked.

如果你在1993年把这个想法画在白板上，人们肯定会说：‘每个人都能编辑的百科全书？这肯定会彻底搞砸。’

If you just, like, put that idea on a whiteboard in, like, you know, 1993, people would have been like, an encyclopedia that everyone can edit, that's gonna be a total disaster.

但如今，它却成为了一座丰碑，被人们视为互联网所能成就的典范。

And yet today is, like, a monument and, like, a thing that people hold up as an example of what the Internet can be.

所以我对这一点仍保持一些乐观。

So I maintain some optimism about this.

只要你设置好正确的护栏、界限和准则，培养好这个社群的氛围，它实际上可以变得很好。

If you just put the right guardrails and boundaries and guidelines in place, if you cultivate the vibe of this base, it can actually be good.

对我来说，这件事有趣的地方不在于谁会来、他们会说什么，而在于我们的服务器能连接到什么。

To me, what is interesting about this is less about who will show up and what will they say on the network, but what can we connect our server to?

对吧？

Right?

对我来说，这就是联邦宇宙的承诺。

To me, this is the promise of the the Fediverse.

它不是说，我们能不能建一个网络论坛，让人们彼此更友善，只讨论关于民主未来的积极内容？

It's not like could we set up an Internet forum where people were nicer to each other and only said, like, pro social things about the future of democracy?

而是，如果你能把它连接到一些你认为有趣的新闻出版物，再链接到像Threads这样的其他社交网络，看到那些只在别处发帖的人的内容，会发生什么？

It's what happens if you're able to link it to some publications that publish news that you think is interesting and link it up to maybe another social network like threads and see content from people who are posting there but nowhere else.

然后是一些下一代的应用，比如一些出版物自己搭建服务器，直接向这个动态流发布内容，或许还会有一些其他的互动形式。

And then some next generation things, like, they're actually, like, publications that set up their own servers that are sort of publishing directly to this feed and maybe there are some other interactions there.

对我来说，这才是我们真正摆脱当前互联网的方式。

To me, this is how we actually move away from the Internet that we're on.

它不是说，我们能不能让一百个友善的人聚在一个房间里？

It is not like, can we get a 100 nice people in a room together?

我相信我们能做到这一点。

I'm sure we could do that.

关键是在我们让这一百个友善的人聚在一起之后，我们还能向他们展示什么？

It is after we get the 100 nice people in the room, what else can we show them?

它会比那些由AI为你挑选的随机Instagram短视频更有趣吗？

And can it be more interesting than random Instagram reels that were picked for you by an AI?

因为，如果没有人提出更好的方案，这正是现在和未来的现状。

Because, like, that is the present and the future if nobody else comes up with something better.

我听到凯西说的一部分意思是，对他而言，互联网最糟糕的情况可能就是我们当前所处的状态，这意味着，哪怕改变现状的机会再渺茫，此刻也必须去尝试。

Part of what I heard Casey saying was that to him, the worst case scenario for the Internet might be essentially where we already were, which meant any shot at changing things, even an unlikely one, at this point, you had to try it.

与其做一个愤世嫉俗的人，不如冒险当个傻瓜。

Better to risk being a fool than commit to being a cynic.

所以他站在了第二阵营。

So he was in two.

三个多年来一直批评社交媒体公司的人，如今却成了社交媒体领域的微型巨头。

Three people who had spent years critiquing social media companies would now become social media micro moguls.

我们会打造属于自己的小片联邦宇宙，我觉得这应该不会太难。

We would build our own little piece of the fetiverse, which I thought shouldn't be too hard.

你其实可以直接访问Mastodon网站，使用他们的平台搭建属于自己的微型服务器，他们称之为实例。

You can actually just go to Mastodon, the website, and use their platform to set up your own little micro server, what they call an instance.

很多人在技术上足够熟练，可以做到这一点。

A lot of people are technologically savvy enough to do that.

而这里的‘很多人’，我其实只是指凯文，因为我默认凯文·罗斯会承担大部分工作。

And in this case, by a lot of people, I really just meant Kevin because I assumed Kevin Roos would do most of the work.

关于凯文，你应该知道的是，他热爱尝试新技术。

Kevin, something you should know about him, he loves to experiment with new technology.

他在《纽约时报》报道科技新闻的工作中，经常这么做。

He does this constantly at his job covering tech at The New York Times.

例如，不久之前，他曾整整一个月只通过AI聊天机器人进行交流，看看它们是否能取代他的朋友。

For instance, not so long ago, he spent a month only communicating with AI chatbots to see if they could replace his human friends.

如今有些科技记者甚至不确定自己是否愿意尝试AI这样的新技术。

There are tech journalists today who are unsure if they even wanna try new technology like AI.

他们觉得这会给自己带来道德上的污点。

They think it'll get a moral stain on them.

凯文是个爱捣鼓的人。

Kevin's a tinkerer.

他通过实践来学习。

He thinks by doing.

我们的市场推广计划是什么，他们怎么说的？

What's our go to market plan, as they say?

比如，我们到底怎么把这东西推出来，获取第一批用户？

Like, how do we actually get this thing out and get our first users?

是的。

Yeah.

我问了Claude，它说第一步包括选择一个令人难忘的名称，并为我们的服务器注册域名。

Well, I asked Claude, and it said that the first steps include choosing a memorable name and securing a domain for our server.

我们必须制定社区准则，决定服务器是否要有特定的主题或方向，确定谁来负责服务器管理与内容审核，然后真正开始做事情，比如搭建服务器、选择托管服务商、设置DNS记录等等。

We have to establish community guidelines and decide if our server will have a specific theme or topic, decide who will handle server administration and content moderation, and then we have to actually start, like, doing stuff like setting up a server and a hosting provider and DNS records and all of that.

你知道吗，正是在这种时候，我庆幸自己选了一个软件工程师当男朋友。

You know, it's times like this that I'm grateful that I chose a boyfriend who is a software engineer.

我觉得他会对这件事起到巨大作用。

I feel like he's gonna be huge for this.

哦，太好了。

Oh, that's great.

现在我应该坦白一下，我在这方面有一些相关经历：中学时，我是GeoCities上第三大的《吸血鬼猎人巴菲》粉丝网站的网站管理员。

Now I should actually disclose that I have some relevant history here, which is that when I was in middle school, I was the webmaster of the third largest Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan site on GeoCities.

哇。

Wow.

而如今，时间快进到今天，又有一个吸血鬼正在吞噬这个世界的生命力，它叫meta.com。

And now fast forward to today, and there's another vampire sucking the life force out of the world, and it's called meta.com.

而这就是我们登场的原因。

And that's where we come in.

是的。

Yes.

我们现在就是猎人了。

We're the slayers now.

我不知道这个说法会不会奏效。

I don't know if that's gonna work.

这就是我们给凯西高薪的原因。

This is why we pay Casey the big bucks.

要么全力出击，要么干脆别动。

You gotta swing hard or not swing at all.

在我们正式启动之前，还有一个决定要做。

There's one more decision to make before we could get up and running.

我们这个初生的平台，我们这片小小的元宇宙切片，需要一个名字。

Our fledgling platform, our little slice of the fetiverse, it needed a name.

凯西有一个提案。

Casey had a pitch.

我有一个想法，这个想法更偏向于其中一个播客，而不是两个都适用，不过我们可以叫它‘叉子宇宙’（Forkiverse）。

So I have one idea that I would say is sort of very particular to one podcast as opposed to being really particular to both podcasts, but we could call it the Forkiverse.

我试着搞个融合名字，结果想出了‘搜索叉’或者‘硬引擎’。

I mean, I tried to do a a blended name and came up with search fork or hard engine.

硬引擎。

Hard engine.

Hard Engine 听起来像是属于另一个互联网的东西。

Hard engine sounds like it belongs on a different Internet.

那是在Casey的无痕浏览标签里。

That's that's in Casey's incognito tab.

我可以接受Forkiverse这个名字。

I could live with Forkiverse.

它不仅让人联想到硬分叉，还像是你在进行分叉。

It also feels like it feels like it's not just referenced to hard fork, but, like, you're forking off

是的。

Yeah.

互联网。

The Internet.

没错。

Exactly.

所以我们有了一个想法。

So we had an idea.

我们有了一个名字。

We had a name.

我们准备好了要开始。

We were ready to start.

在尝试构建我们自己的互联网部分时，我们会学到什么？

What would we learn trying to build our piece of the Internet?

广告后我们就会知道答案。

We'll find out after these ads.

你好。

Hi.

我是吉尔·施莱辛格，CBS新闻财经分析师、认证财务规划师，以及《吉尔谈钱》播客的主持人。

This is Jill Schlesinger, CBS News Business Analyst, Certified Financial Planner, and the host of the Jill on Money Podcast.

新年将至，现在正是掌控你财务生活的最佳时机，《吉尔谈钱》播客将为你提供帮助。

With the new year upon us, there's no better time to take control of your financial life, And the Jill on Money podcast is here to help.

正是你们的问题，让我能够提供一些非传统且希望令人愉悦的见解，关于你们的钱，更重要的是关于你们的生活。

It's your questions that make it possible for me to provide unconventional and I hope entertaining insights on your money and more importantly on your life.

在您收听播客的任何平台关注并收听《Jill on Money》。

Follow and listen to Jill on Money wherever you get your podcasts.

喂？

Hello?

喂？

Hello?

你还能听到我吗，PJ？

Can you still hear me, PJ?

我还能听到你。

I can still hear you.

那真是

That's

梦想正在成真。

Dreams are coming true.

你还能听到我吗？

Can you still hear me?

是的。

Yes.

这是几个月后的事了。

This was a few months later.

正如我所期望的，凯文·罗斯成为了我们的首席技术官，他来汇报他所开展的工作。

Kevin Roos, as I'd hoped, had become our chief technology officer, and he was here to report on the work he'd been doing.

我当时在布鲁克林的录音棚里。

I was in the studio in Brooklyn.

凯文和凯西从《纽约时报》旧金山办公室连线接入。

Kevin and Casey were connecting from the New York Times San Francisco office.

我去了录音棚。

I came down to the studio.

录音棚在哪里？

Where's the studio?

它位于《纽约时报》旧金山分社的一个壁橱里，这个壁橱是为伊兹拉·克莱因建造的，但他从未使用过。

It's in a closet in the New York Times San Francisco bureau that was built for Ezra Klein that he never once used.

我曾经问过他这件事，他却说：等等。

And I once asked him about it, and he was like, wait.

他们建了个演播室？

They built a studio?

凯文，你有什么

Kevin, what do

要给我们分享的吗？

you have for us?

自从我们上次会面以来，我们搭建了一个Mastodon服务器。

So since our last meeting, we have built a Mastodon server.

真的吗？

Really?

而我们所说的‘搭建’，其实是从一家托管服务公司订购的。

And by we well, and by built, I mean ordered from, like, a managed hosting service.

我本人并没有亲手做任何事情。

I did not personally build anything here.

我们这里说的‘我们’，主要指的是AI，因为真的吗？

And by we, I mostly mean AI because Really?

这个项目让我有点望而却步，所以我一直在测试这个操作员工具。

I was a little bit daunted by this project, and so I've been testing this operator thing.

你听说过这个吗？

Have you heard about this?

我们之前谈到过，应该说是在去年一月，以AI发展的速度来看，那简直像是两个世纪以前的事了。

We were talking, I should say, last January, which in the pace of AI development feels like approximately two centuries ago.

但不管怎样，那时候OpenAI的操作员还是个新东西。

But anyway, that long ago week, OpenAI's operator was new.

是的。

Yeah.

操作员是OpenAI的新功能，AI可以真正为你做些事情，但通常做得并不好。

Operator is OpenAI's new thing where the AI can actually, like, do stuff for you, but it doesn't usually do it very well.

它能接管你的鼠标，帮你输入内容，但据我所知，目前还不是很成熟。

It can take over your mouse, and it can type stuff in, but, like, it's not so good yet is my understanding.

这种理解错了吗？

Is that understanding wrong?

我觉得不是这样。

I think that's no.

我觉得这种理解基本是正确的。

I think that's a mostly correct understanding.

不过在这种情况下，它做得非常好。

Although, in this case, it did do this extremely well.

所以我跟它说了我们的项目，让它去帮我买个域名，搭建一个完整的Mastodon服务器，并配置所有设置。

So I I told it about our project, and I said, go out, buy me a domain name, set up a whole Mastodon server, and configure all the settings.

是的。

Yeah.

你把信用卡信息告诉AI了？

You gave the AI your credit card?

PJ，我们这儿可是活在未来的。

PJ, we're living in the future out here.

我们对人工智能的信任超过了对其他人类的信任。

We we we trust AIs more than other humans.

所以我给了它这个任务，然后二十分钟后我回来，发现它已经完成了我要求的大部分工作。

So I gave it this task, and then I came back, like, twenty minutes later, and it had done most of what I asked it for.

但我还是得输入一些东西。

I still needed to, like, you know, input some stuff.

但我们现在拥有域名theforkiverse.com，第一年只需1美元。

But we now own the domain name, theforkiverse.com, that was available for $1 for the first year.

然后我猜之后费用会涨到大约7000美元左右。

Then I assume it goes up to, like, $7,000 or something.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我们还在一个叫masto.host的平台上注册了账户。

And we also have an account on something called masto.host.

好的。

Okay.

这是一个完全托管的Mastodon托管服务。

Which is a fully managed Mastodon hosting service.

所以这基本上就像是社交媒体网站的Squarespace。

So it's basically you know, it's like Squarespace, but for social media sites.

于是我为我们购买了一个每月89美元的计划。

And so I bought us a plan, $89 a month.

我会把这笔费用报给搜索引擎的财务部门。

I will be expensing that to the search engine accounting department.

我希望如此。

I should hope so.

它为我们提供了以下功能。

And it gives us the following things.

极高的联邦容量。

Very high federation capacity.

好的。

Okay.

50个处理线程。

50 processing threads.

好的。

Okay.

40吉字节数据库。

40 gigabyte database.

好的。

Okay.

400吉字节媒体存储。

400 gigabyte media storage.

我们整个社交网络只有400吉字节的媒体存储空间。

We only have 400 gigabytes of media storage for our entire social network.

就说吧

Just say

在Forgiver服务器上，不鼓励上传图片。

that uploading images is discouraged on the Forgiver server.

它们必须非常小。

They just have to be very small.

不要4K。

No four k.

不要4K。

No four k.

不行。

No.

不要4K。

No four k.

它最多可以容纳约2000名用户。

It can hold an estimated 2,000 users.

好的。

Okay.

所以那是最大的方案。

So that was the largest plan.

我本来可以选择月亮、行星、星星或星座的方案，但我选择了星系方案。

I could have gone with the moon, planet, star, or constellation plans, but I went with the galaxy plan.

所以我们最终选了这个。

So that's what we got.

所以星系方案让我们拥有了一个规模类似于九十年代末留言板的社交媒体网络。

So the galaxy plan gives us a social media network that in size kind of resembles like a late nineties message board.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

但它可以连接到所有其他社交媒体网络。

But it can connect to all the other social media networks.

这就是所谓的高联邦容量之类的。

That's the high federation capacity or whatever.

没错。

Exactly.

这里需要澄清一点，我们只能连接到其他开放的联邦平台。

One clarification here is that, of course, we can connect only to other open federated platforms.

因此，Forkiverse 用户可以看到 Mastodon 或 Flipboard 等开放平台的帖子，但无法关注 X 或 Instagram 等封闭系统上的用户。

So a Forkiverse user can see posts from open platforms like Mastodon or Flipboard, but can't follow someone on a closed system, like X or Instagram.

无论如何，我们拥有强大的联邦能力。

Anyway, we had a high federation capacity.

这意味着 Forkiverse 可以轻松地与其他联邦平台交换数据流量。

Meaning, the Forkiverse can easily exchange traffic with other federated platforms.

我感觉我们正在重启到我最后一次感到纯粹快乐的互联网版本。

I feel like we're rebooting to the last version of the Internet that I felt like uncomplicated joy about.

所以我对这个方案很满意。

So I'm fine with this.

这就是梦想。

That's the dream.

这就是希望。

That's the hope.

这正是我们正在尝试做的。

That's what we're trying to do.

倒着走。

Go backwards.

另外，我想说，我也试过用操作员来做一些酷炫的事情。

Also, I just wanna say, I tried to use operator to do cool things too.

当我尝试订购杂货时，它竟然想把货送到我下单的那家商店。

And when I tried to order groceries, it tried to send them to the grocery store that I was ordering from.

这就是我用AI做到的全部了。

So that's how far I got with the AI.

所以我想邀请你们俩在浏览器中打开一个新标签页

So I would like to invite you both to open a new tab in your browser

好的。

Okay.

然后访问 forkiverse.com。

And go to the forkiverse.com.

好的。

Okay.

我到了forkaverse。

I'm at the forkaverse.

哦，所以你只是让我去forkaverse.com吗？

Oh, so you want me to just go to the forkaverse.com?

是的。

Yeah.

我明白了。

I see.

我刚收到一个警告，说我的连接不安全，可能有攻击者试图窃取我的信息。

I just got a warning saying that my connection is not private, and that attackers might be trying to steal my information.

好的。

Okay.

不过，我可以帮你解决这个问题。

Well, I can help you with that.

不，不行。

Nope.

我们得问问运营商这件事。

We just gotta ask operator about that.

我还收到一个错误消息，说我的

I also got an error message that said that my

我认为《纽约时报》

I think the New York Times

我们被屏蔽了。

We're blocked.

《纽约时报》的防火墙正在阻止我们访问Forkiverse。

The New York Times firewall is blocking us from going to the Forkiverse.

所以在这里的独立媒体中，没有规则，你可以为所欲为，我就在Forkiverse上。

So out here in independent media where there's no rules and you can do whatever you want, I'm on the Forkiverse.

你想让我告诉你我看到了什么吗？

Do want me to tell you what I'm seeing?

好的，请。

Yes, please.

好的。

Okay.

首先，有一个漂亮的小小图形。

So first of all, there's a nice little graphic.

我不知道这是Mastodon的图形还是Forkiverse的图形，但看起来像是动漫风格，上面有一群大象。

I don't know if that's a Mastodon graphic or a Forkiverse graphic, but there's, like it's sorta anime, and there's, like, a bunch of elephants.

它写着：forkiverse.com 是你可以用来参与Fetaverse的众多独立Mastodon服务器之一。

It says the forkiverse.com is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the Fetaverse.

然后我注意到一件以前从未见过的事：就像你在任何20个Twitter类平台上看的动态流，但这里什么内容都没有。

And then the thing that I realized I'd never seen before is that it's, like, a there's the feed that you would see on any of the 20 Twitter clothes or whatever, but there's nothing on it yet.

它非常干净。

It's pristine.

就像是帖子。

It's like posts.