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今天，我们请来了亚马逊世界首屈一指的专利专家，他再次回来，和我们聊聊你们所有想了解的专利和商标知识，他还为我们准备了许多有趣的旅行小技巧。
Today, we've got the Amazon world's foremost expert on patents, and he's back to talk about all you wanted to know about patents, trademarks, and he even has a lot of cool travel hacks for us.
这不是很酷吗？
How cool is that?
我觉得挺酷的。
Pretty cool, I think.
大家好，欢迎收听由Helium十出品的《严肃卖家》播客的又一期节目。
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers podcast by Helium ten.
我是你们的主持人布拉德利·萨顿，这档节目完全摒弃虚假内容，未经脚本、不加排练，以真实自然的对话形式，探讨适用于亚马逊平台上任何层级卖家的严肃策略。今天我们请回了里奇，这是他自2019年底或2020年初以来首次重返节目。
I am your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's a completely BS free, unscripted, and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies for serious sellers of any level in the Amazon world, and we've got back here on the show for the first time since, I wanna say maybe early, 2020, late twenty nineteen.
今天我们请来了里奇·戈德斯坦。
We've got Rich Goldstein in the house.
里奇，最近怎么样？
Rich, how's it going?
我很好，布拉德利。
It's going great, Bradley.
是的
Yeah.
我记得很清楚，当时来海力腾办公室拍摄上一期播客。
And, I remember it well coming to the the Helium ten offices to shoot the last podcast.
你是少数几个真的在办公室录制的人，而显然，现在那里已经不行了。
You were one of the few to actually record in office there, and, obviously, that is no longer.
你知道的？
You know?
我所有内容都是在家里录制的，我在这里重建了那个录音室，所以所有东西都在这儿了。
I record everything from my, I I recreate that that studio here at my house, and so everything is, everything is here.
我觉得没人会来我家录制播客了，现在全都变成移动录制了。
And I don't think anybody's coming to my house to record the podcast, so it's all mobile now.
你还在新泽西吗？
You still in Jersey?
太棒了。
Awesome.
是的，我在。
So I am.
我在。
I am.
我在新泽西。
I'm in Jersey.
所以我想，我仍然是少数人之一。
And so then I guess I remain among the few.
就像，如果你已经退役了那个录音室，那我将是少数曾经在那里录过音的人之一。
Like like, we've if you've retired that studio, then I'm I I will be among the few that ever
那个录音室现在已经退役了。
That studio is now retired.
我们还保留着它。
We still have it.
你用它来做其他事情，但不再用于播客了。
You use it for other things, but not not podcasting.
现在你飞到这里来了。
Now now you're flying out here.
我首先想聊的是，你为了Prosper展会飞到这里。
First thing I wanna talk about, you're flying out here, for the Prosper Show.
你和我一样，可能比我级别还高一点，算是个旅行达人，靠常旅客里程什么的。
You, like me, are are are kind of a probably a little bit higher level than me, somewhat of a travel hacker with your frequent flyer miles and things.
那对于联合航空，你是那个Premier One K吗？
Now for United, are you that premier one k thing?
我是。
I am.
我确实是Premier One K。
I am indeed a a premier one k.
那到底要怎么才能达到这个级别呢？
So how in the world does one get, get there?
你是单纯因为飞得太多才达标了，还是做了什么状态匹配之类的？
Like like, do you just travel that much that you just qualified, or did you do one of those status matchup things or what?
不是。
No.
就是经常旅行。
Just lots of traveling.
当你乘坐四、五、六小时的航班，或者国际长途飞行时，坐在经济舱，尤其是像我这样高个子的人，身高六英尺三英寸，我根本就心情糟糕。
When you get on a four, five, six hour flight or international 10 flights and you're in coach, especially a tall guy like me, know, six foot three, I mean, I'm just in a bad mood.
我在经济舱飞行时，根本没法好好完成我想做的事。
I'm not gonna get whatever I wanted to done in a great way when I'm flying, economy.
但与此同时，我们也不应该超出自己的经济能力生活。
But at the same time, we also shouldn't live, you know, beyond our means.
所以这就引出了所谓的旅行积分技巧——如何累积积分、如何升舱，诸如此类。
And so that's where this whole, you know, travel hacking, you know, comes in and and how do you stack points and and how do you upgrade and things like that.
我知道你已经获得了那种高级别的会员资格。
So so I know you've gotten that that that high status there.
我最高的会员等级其实是在希尔顿。
My highest status is actually in in in Hilton.
因为我有希尔顿的高级会员资格，所以我总能免费入住每晚2500美元的马尔代夫酒店。
That's how I'm always able to stay in The Maldives at the $2,500 a night room for free because of my Hilton status.
你还有哪些其他的旅行技巧或会员资格，能让你的旅行变得更轻松呢？
What other what other, like, travel hacking or or statuses do you do to kind of, like, make traveling better for you?
首先，TSA预检和Clear服务太棒了。
First of all, the, TSA Pre and Clear is awesome.
这意味着在大多数机场，TSA预检的队伍不仅更短，而且你能轻松快速通过。
It means, like, at most airports, not only is the line shorter for TSA Pre, but you just sail right through.
通常，Clear通道根本不需要排队。
Usually, there is absolutely no line for Clear.
可能在TSA预检通道前会有一点排队。
There may be a line for Yeah.
但在TSA预检通道前，可能只有50个人在你前面。
For TSA Pre.
而如果没有TSA预检资格，你前面可能会有500个人。
Maybe there's 50 people in front of you where there was you know, there'd be 500 people in front of you who didn't have TSA Pre.
但Clear通道，我从来没去过哪个机场发现它有排队的。
But Clear, I I don't think I've ever gone to an airport when there was a line.
你只要找到Clear通道，以最快的速度走到柜台，就能立刻完成手续，直接进入安检通道接受检查。
It's like you find where the clear is, and as fast as you can walk to that up to the counter is as fast as you could actually get it done and and and get onto into the security, lane to to get, processed.
让我分享一下我的一些方法。
Let me give some of mine.
其中一个我之前提到过，其实是从蒂姆·乔丹那里学来的，就是创始者卡。
One of them I've talked about before, actually, learned it from Tim Jordan is the founder's card.
这张卡真的很棒，能帮你获得一些高级会员资格，比如在某些航空公司和酒店享受便利，还有特定折扣，比如拉斯维加斯的凯撒宫。
That's a really cool card to get you, like, some elite statuses, like, easier, you know, on certain airlines and hotels and and then certain discounts and and, like, Caesar's Palace in Vegas.
你总能获得免费升舱。
You know, you always get always get upgrades and free upgrades.
创始者卡年费有点贵，但它很容易就能回本。
And founder's card, it's kind of expensive for a year, but it easily can can pay for itself.
我还强烈建议美国公民把这些优惠叠加使用。
Another thing I highly suggest for, US citizens is to stack these things.
试试申请全球入境计划，它适用于TSA和快速通道。
Try and get the, the global, global entry, which, at the TSA and the clear.
我啊，真的超不擅长这些，朋友们。
And me, I am I am terrible, guys.
我特别不擅长掐着点赶航班之类的事情。
Like, I'm terrible at cutting it close to get on on flights and things like that.
我总是最后一刻才到。
I'm always, like, last second.
你知道的吧？
You know?
我根本不可能赶得上这些航班。
And there's, like, no way I I would make these flights.
但我有快速通道和TSA优先通道，我是通过全球入境计划申请到的。
But I've got the clear plus the TSA, which I got through the Global Entry program.
基本上，这意味着，如果我没有托运行李，我直接到机场就行。
And, basically, what that means is, especially if I don't have a check-in luggage, I just get to the airport.
我只要在这台设备上扫描一下虹膜，就会有CLEAR的工作人员直接带我通过，我甚至都不用拿出我的身份证。
I I just scan my eyeball, on the on this thing, and and a and a CLEAR representative walks me right through I don't even have to take out my my ID.
他直接带我通过安检，我能排到队伍最前面， literally 节省了三十分钟以上，尤其是在这些繁忙的机场。
He walks me right through security, and I go to the front of the line, like, literally saving thirty minutes plus, especially in some of these busy airports.
所以把CLEAR和TSA结合使用后，我就不用脱鞋了。
So stacking clear with the TSA, and then I I don't have to take off my shoes.
我不用脱外套。
I don't have to take off my my, jacket.
我不用把笔记本电脑从包里拿出来。
I don't have to I don't have to take off the laptops out of my my bag.
当你入境时，这时候Global Entry就派上用场了。
And then when you're coming into the country, that's where global entry comes in.
我经常往返墨西哥。
Like, I go back and forth from Mexico all the time.
我直接通过海关，根本不用排队，甚至都不用出示护照。
I just go right through, you know, the, the customs and don't even have to use I don't even have to show my passport.
顺便说一句，最后一点是，你展望这种身份时，会想：总有一天，我也会达到那样的地位。
By the way, just just a a final point is, like, you know, like, you you look ahead toward that status and you say, like, someday, I'll get to be that.
不管是什么样的身份。
Whatever it is.
比如，这可能和航空公司的常旅客计划有关。
Like, even in like, it could be related to frequent flyers on airlines.
也可能和其他事情有关。
It could be related to something else.
然后你会发现，总还有更高的级别存在。
And then you discover that there's always something above that.
当你以为自己已经到达顶峰时，其实还没有。
That just when you think you've arrived, you haven't.
所以就我们这里讨论的情况而言，我是联合航空的一千级会员，这是他们公开的最高级别。
So in the case of of what we're talking about here, so I'm a one k on United, which is the highest published status that they have.
但总还有一个未公开的级别，叫做全球服务。
But there's always the unpublished status, which is global services.
他们有一个叫做全球服务的项目。
So they've got something called global services.
我敢肯定，当你登机时，他们会说，比如，第一个上飞机的是全球服务会员。
I'm sure, like, when you've got when you've boarded, they've said, like, you know, like, first one on the plane, global services.
哇哦。
Like, woah.
那是什么？
What's that?
这是他们通过电话邀请某些人加入的等级。
That's the status that they give to people kinda by a phone call.
有一天你突然接到一个电话，说：嘿。
You just get a phone call one day and say, hey.
你入选了。
You're in.
通常，那些每年往返亚洲十次、乘坐商务舱、每年在机票上花费约五万美元的人，才会被邀请加入全球服务。
And, usually, it's the people that, say, travel to Asia 10 times a year in, you know, in business class that, you know, they're spending, like, 50,000 a year on airfare that get invited to be in global services.
这些人会得到最特别的待遇。
And those guys get, like, the most special treatment.
我听说，有时候如果你赶不上转机，他们甚至会等你。
I've heard, like, they you know, they'll even hold a plane for you at times when you're running late on a connection.
我听说在某些机场——我觉得现在他们不这么做了——但以前他们会用奔驰车把你从停机坪送到转机航班。
I've heard at certain airports I don't think they do this anymore, but at certain point, they had, like, you get driven across the tarmac to your connection by Mercedes.
什么？
What?
哇。
Wow.
是的。
Yeah.
总会有这样的情况，当你以为已经到达顶峰时，还有……
There's always you know, just when you think you've reached the zenith, there's
总会有更高的层次。
always There's always another a level.
对。
Right.
总之，我们一直在讨论旅行技巧和策略，这些对于那些电商创业者来说非常相关，但让我们回到其他话题。
Anyway, so we've been talking about travel hacks and strategies, which, you know, I think is very relevant to to ecommerce entrepreneurs out there, but but let's go back to something else.
你知道，你自己并不在亚马逊上销售，但过去一年半里，凭借你的工作和专业知识，你很可能已经接触过数百甚至上千名亚马逊卖家。
You know, you you don't sell on Amazon yourself, but now in the past, you know, year and a half, you've probably dealt with hundreds, if not thousands more Amazon sellers with what you do and and your expertise.
而你主要的工作，作为一名专利律师，是关注专利问题，当然，人们可能会说，哦，是的。
And and mainly that's, you know, looking you know, patents, you know, as a patent attorney, you obviously you know, people can say, oh, yeah.
我会去查专利，但很少有人能真正说自己是这方面的执业律师。
I'm gonna look up patents, but very few can actually say they're they're an actual attorney in this.
所以你确实非常专业。
And so you definitely know your stuff.
所以，我第一次认识你的时候，你就已经有和亚马逊卖家打交道的经验了，但我相信最近这种经验已经呈指数级增长。
So, I mean, you had experience with Amazon sellers when I first met you, but but, I'm sure it's just exponentially increased lately.
所以我只是很好奇。
So I'm just curious.
你能分享一些过去一年半里你与卖家打交道的正面和负面案例吗？
Can you give some anecdotes, some things that have you have dealt with with sellers on the positive side and the negative side in the last year and a half?
比如，有时候会遇到这种情况：嘿。
You know, like, where where it's like, hey.
我们之前没有专利，但后来申请到了。
We didn't have a patent and we we got one.
我们成功把那些人赶了出去；或者相反的情况，比如：嘿。
We were able to kick all these people out or or the opposite side, like, hey.
你有没有听说过一个亚马逊卖家，他推出了一款产品，却没意识到它已被专利保护，结果损失了数千美元？
I start you heard of a Amazon seller who started their product and they didn't realize it was patented and they lost thousands of dollars.
但你能给我们讲一些真实的案例吗？让我们听众能从中吸取教训？
But but can you just give us some, like, real life, situations here, that our listeners can learn from?
是的。
Yeah.
首先，上面提到的所有情况都存在。
Like, first of all, all of the above.
所有这些事情都会发生。
All of that happens.
所以是的。
And so yeah.
我的一个客户差点以数百万美元的价格出售他们的企业，第二天就要解除托管并拿到钱了。
I mean, I I I was in a situation with with a client who was about to sell their business for several million dollars, and, like, they were going to to clear escrow the following day and kinda get their money.
你知道，所有该核对的都核对过了，库存啊、数据啊，全都对上了。
Like, you know, all of the like, everything had been accounted for, you know, all the inventory and such, all the numbers were reconciled.
他们本来已经准备完成交易了，但账户却因知识产权投诉——专利侵权——被封了。
They were basically ready to close, and their account got shut down for IP complaint due to due to patent infringement.
事情变得特别奇怪，因为确实如此。
And it got really, really weird because yeah.
让我想想我能透露多少细节。
I'm I'm let's see how much detail I could go into here.
但本质上，他们以为自己卖的是白标产品。
But but, essentially, they were in a situation where they thought they they had a white labeled product.
他们有一个产品，你知道，这个产品基本上是他们原创的，但更准确地说是白标产品。
Like, that that they had a product that, you know, they kind of originated, but it was more or less white labeled.
他们从未为此申请过专利。
They had never gone for a patent on it.
而制造商向他们保证，说他们是第一个创造这个产品的人，基本上是根据他们的草图和设计来制作的。
And manufacturer had assured them that, you know, that that they were the first to create it, that they basically created it for them from their sketches, from their drawings.
但后来，这家制造商却把它卖给了其他人。
But then that manufacturer went on to sell it to other people.
然后，在某个时候，其中一个客户问：‘我们能为这个产品申请专利吗？’
And then, essentially, at a certain point, one of those customers has asked, oh, could we get the patent for this?
制造商配合他们申请了专利。
And the manufacturer cooperated in helping them get the patent.
所以，如果刚才那个事实情况没让你太混乱的话。
So, essentially, if that didn't get too confusing with the the the fact pattern there.
简而言之，第三方最终获得了他们产品的专利。
So, essentially, a third party ended up with the patent on their product.
你知道，他们从来就没想过要为这个申请专利。
You know, they had never been concerned about getting a patent on it.
但由于制造商的混乱，第三方最终获得了专利，而他们在即将完成企业出售时，通过一份知识产权投诉才发现别人拥有了这项专利。
But through some confusion of the manufacturer, a third party ended up with the patent, and they were on the the cusp of of closing the sale of their business when they discovered with through an IP complaint that someone else had the patent.
所以，如果你设身处地为他们想想，眼看就要赚到数百万，却突然收到这样的知识产权投诉。
And so, I mean, if you could put yourself in their shoes and imagine about to collect millions and then you get this IP complaint.
我的意思是，这简直太毁灭性了。
I mean, simply, like, devastating.
花了不少功夫才扭转局面。
It took some work to undo.
你知道的？
You know?
最终，我认为这种情况得到了部分解决，那个提出投诉的人意识到这种行为实在太卑劣了，于是退让了。
And, ultimately, I think part of the the situation was remedied that the the person that made the complaint, like, realized that it was just that it was kind of a dirty, underhanded thing to do, and they they backed off.
他们其实也明白，自己的良知过不去，于是说，他们不想这样行事。
Like, they had a, like, they had some basically, their their conscience got to them, and they said they they this is not the way they wanted to behave.
但如果不是因为这件事，这笔批发交易本来可能就黄了。
But if not for that, that wholesale could have just fallen through.
现在你知道了，显而易见， hindsight 是二十/二十，但在这一切发生前一年或六个月，他们本该做些什么？大概需要花多少钱？
Now now what you know, obviously, hindsight is twenty twenty, but maybe a year or six months before this all went down, what should they have done and about how much would it have cost them to do it?
是的。
Yeah.
他们本该为他们设计的产品申请专利。
What they what they should have done is is, is filed a a patent for the design that they created.
因为这实际上只是一个外观设计专利，只涉及产品的外观和装饰性特征。
Because it really was it was just a design patent, which is just for the way in which the product looks, the ornamental appearance of the product.
所以，如果他们当时真的去申请并获得了专利，基本上就能阻止其他人获得这项专利。
So if they had a if they had actually gone ahead and obtained the patent, then, essentially, that would have prevented this other person from obtaining a patent.
关键是。
Here's the thing.
我认为在亚马逊平台上，最大的教训是，亚马逊通常会偏向知识产权所有人。
Here's the big lesson, I think, on Amazon is that Amazon tends to defer toward the IP owner.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就是为什么成为知识产权所有者是有利的。
And that's why it pays to be the IP owner.
成为持有专利的人是有好处的。
It pays to be the one holding the patent.
所以即使在你认为‘我不确定我是否真的在意’的时候。
And so even at times when you think, like, well, I don't know that I really care.
比如，如果其他人过来开始销售类似的产品，我也不在乎。
Like, if other people come along and they just they they start selling similar products, I don't care.
我就要做我的产品。
I'm just gonna make it.
我会通过我的商品列表赚钱。
I'm gonna make money with my listing.
我不在乎他们。
I'm gonna do I'm not concerned about them.
没关系。
That's fine.
但有时即使作为防御策略，你也需要持有专利。
But sometimes even as a defensive posture, you need to be the one holding the patent.
好的。
Okay.
所以那是个负面情况。
So that was a negative.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，实际上，这某种程度上是个积极面，因为很少有人做这种事时会经历良知危机。
That that I mean, it was actually, you know, somewhat of a positive, I guess, because because the it's very rare that, people who do this kind of thing have a crisis of conscience, there.
所以这本身也算个积极点，但他们避过了一劫。
So that was kind of a a positive in itself, but but they dodged a bullet there.
所以，这就是所谓的负面方面，比如说。
So so that's the the negative side of like, hey.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，每个人都想在各方面省点钱。
You know, everybody wants to save a buck here or there.
而且，嘿，各位。
And, yeah, hey, guys.
我们要实事求是。
We're gonna keep it real.
申请专利并走完流程，可不是去参加法律方面的Zoom会议，也不是花300美元注册一个德国商标之类的小事。
Getting patents and going through the process is not like going to legal Zoom, or or getting a a $300 German trademark or or something cheap.
这要花上几千美元。
It costs a few thousand dollars.
但你知道，如果真的发生这种情况，他们本可能损失数百万美元。
But, you know, they could have potentially lost, you know, sounds like millions of dollars if, in this.
所以我们能看得出，这绝对是值得的。
So we could see how it's definitely worth it.
但另一方面呢？
But what's on the flip side?
比如，一个积极的方面。
Like, maybe a positive thing.
比如，有人在应该行动的时候做了正确的事，因此保护了自己的产品，或者赶走了侵权者之类的事情。
Like, somebody did do the right thing when they should have, and because of that, they were able to protect their their product or they were able to kick off a hijacker or something like that.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
当然。
Absolutely.
我的一个朋友在推出产品时申请了专利，顺便说一句，你确实应该在发布前申请专利。
I mean, and I have a I have a friend who, you know, applied for a patent at the time that they were launching the product, which, by the way, that's when you want to apply for it is before you launch.
在某些情况下，即使发布后、公开后，你仍然可以申请。
Under certain circumstances, you can still apply after you launch, after you make it public.
但如果你公开后过了一年，你就永远失去了权利。
But if a year goes by since you made it public, then you've lost the rights forever.
太多人等得太久了。
And too many people wait too long.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
他们根本不知道这条规则：如果过了一年，你就彻底丧失了权利。
They don't they don't happen to know about that rule with regard to absolutely losing the rights if if a year has gone by.
但他们往往等上一年半，然后才来找我，而我不得不告诉他们：我很想帮你，但我真的无能为力。
But, you know, they wait a year and a half, and then they come to me and I have to tell them, I'd love to help you, but I really I can't.
我们已经无法再申请专利了。
I can't we can't get a patent anymore.
他们通常会问：我怎么会知道这一点呢？
And they'll usually say, well, how would I have known that?
如果我把产品公开了，怎么会失去这项发明的权利呢？
How would I have known that if I make the product public, I lose the rights to the invention?
答案是，我想你本来也不会知道。
And the answer is, I guess, you you wouldn't.
所以我特别强调要传达这一点。
And that's why I make a point of of of getting that that point across.
我刚才稍微偏离了一下故事，就是为了说明这一点。
And I took a little diversion from the the story here to to say that piece.
本质上，当他申请专利时，就推出了产品。
Essentially, when he he applied for the patent, he launched the product.
在接下来的六个月里，他注意到人们非常喜欢这个产品，包括那些喜欢仿制的人。
He noticed over the next six months that people love the product, including people that love to copy it.
于是他发现，其他人开始制造完全相同的产品，外观和他的一模一样，并在亚马逊上销售。
And so he he noticed that other people started to make identical products, products that looked exactly like his, selling it on Amazon.
外观专利获批了。
The design patent issued.
换句话说，专利被授予了。
Other In words, it was granted.
它成为了一项专利。
It became a patent.
然后，正如他所说，在某一个辉煌的日子里，他用他的设计专利关闭了40个其他卖家。
And then as he puts it, on one glorious day, he shut down 40 other sellers, with his design patent.
好的。
Okay.
你知道，我们确实讨论过实际情况，那就是这很昂贵。
Now, you know, we we did talk about the reality of the situation that it's expensive.
你知道吗？
And you know what?
说实话，在某些情况下，可能不建议这么做。
To be honest, there are some situations where maybe it's not suggested.
比如，嘿。
Like, hey.
你是个新卖家。
You're a brand new seller.
你刚开始时手头可能只有5000美元来投资你的第一个产品。
You barely have got $5,000 to invest in your first product.
你根本不可能拿出几千美元去投资。
You're not exactly able to to go invest a few thousand dollars in.
对于亚马逊或其他电商平台的卖家来说，到底在什么时候，你应该认真审视一下，想想看：
At what point does an Amazon or or any ecommerce seller for that matter, at what point should one take a hard look and say, you know what?
我需要考虑把这件事办了。
I need to look into getting this done.
好的。
Okay.
关于这一点，我想说几点。
Well, I I would say, a couple things on that.
首先，你在知识产权上花钱时要谨慎。
I mean, first of all, you wanna be judicious when you spend money on IP.
在知识产权方面，有很多地方你可以花钱，但未必能获得相应的回报。
There's often a lot of things that you can spend money on with regards to IP that don't necessarily give you bank for your buck.
比如，你可能会花上几万美元去申请专利，最后却得到一个没什么用的东西。
Like, there are a lot you could spend, you know, tens of thousands of dollars on patents and end up with something that's really pretty useless.
嗯。
Mhmm.
比如一个专利其实非常狭窄有限，根本无法有效阻止竞争对手。
Like a patent that really doesn't, that's rather narrow and limited and doesn't give you much ability to to prevent competition.
所以你要小心把钱花在什么地方。
So you wanna be careful about what you spend your money on.
而且很多产品其实并没有太大区别。
And and also a lot of products just aren't that different.
比如，如果你只是白标产品，那很可能根本没什么可申请专利的。
Like, if you're white labeling a product, there's probably nothing to patent.
你真正应该做的是留意那些真正有潜力的产品。
What you really wanna do is be on the lookout for those products that really have potential.
这不仅仅是再卖一个礼品创意产品，或者再卖一种市场上已经存在的十种产品之一，而是当你看到真正有价值的东西时，才值得深入下去，申请专利。
And it's not just, you know, selling another gift idea product or selling another one of 10 of something that's out there already, but you see something that's worthwhile, then it might pay to dig deep to get that patent, to apply for the patent.
我还要说，你提到过，比如投资5000美元来推出一个产品。
I'd also say, you know, you mentioned, like, a 5,000 like, investing $5,000 into launching a product.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，花差不多同样的钱去申请外观设计专利可能并不划算。
I mean, it it it might not pay to spend about the same amount of money to get a design patent.
但如果你花了十万美元，比如你首批订单就花了五万美元，再加上市场营销的其他开支，那你大概希望拿出其中相当一部分来保护你的投资。
But if you're spending a 100 k, you know, if you've if you've spent, you know, 50 k for your first order and plus you've got other expenses in the marketing, I mean, you you probably want to spend a fair proportion of that to protect your investment.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，如果你花了十万美元，花一万美元可能就值得了。
I mean, so if you're spending a 100 k, it might it might make sense to spend 10 k.
如果你花了五万美元，花五千美元申请外观设计专利可能就比较合理。
If you're spending 50 k, it might make sense to spend 5 k on a design patent.
一方面，你可以看看自己投入了多少，但也可以看看潜在的回报。
One way to look at it, first of all, is is to look at what you're investing, but you can also look at the upside.
比如，如果你投资了5000美元，但你知道这个产品每个月的销售额将达到1万美元。
Like, if you're investing 5 k, but you know that this is gonna be a, like, a a 10 k a month product.
你已经从经验中看到了这一点。
You've just seen it from experience.
也许推出这个产品的成本没那么高，但你知道它每个月能卖1万美元，或者每年12万美元，那么你也应该考虑这一点。
Maybe it just doesn't cost that much to launch this product, but you know that it's going to be a 10 k a month product or a 120 k a year, then you might wanna look toward that as well.
即使推出产品的成本很低，但如果你的目标是防止其他人进入这个产品列表，那么你就能通过挽回两周的销售额来收回5000美元。
And then even though it might be inexpensive to launch it, if if you know what what you're trying to do is prevent other people from jumping in there on that listing, then, you know, like, kinda recouping two weeks worth of sales then gets you 5 k back.
我以前见过很多次这种情况，比如你总共花了5000美元申请一个外观设计专利。
And I've seen that many times before where, like, it's like you spend you spend, let's say, 5 k total on a on a design patent.
结果这个产品每个月的销售额达到了10万美元，然后你发现有人在销售类似的产品。
You it it turns out to be, you know, a $100,000 a month product, and and and then you notice, like, other people selling similar products.
他们可能认为自己抢走了你20%的市场份额。
And they might imagine they cut into your market share by 20%.
于是突然间，你每个月损失了1万到2万美元。
So now all of a sudden, you're losing 10 to $20,000 a month.
你知道，如果你能延缓这些竞争对手几周，就能收回你的投资。
You know, if you could slow down those competitors by even a few weeks, you recoup your investment.
好的。
Okay.
所以，一切都得按比例来。
So, yeah, everything in proportion.
所以，我想这基本上就是我对你的问题的总体回答：关于什么时候值得投入，特别是当你只有五千美元时，可能就不该把钱花在专利上，因为那样你就没有其他资源来推广产品了。
So I guess that's that's really my overall answer to your question about, like, when and, like, when it pays and especially with that scenario of, like, if if it's all if if you've only got five k, you probably don't wanna spend it on the patent because then you you're left with with no other resources to launch.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且，你知道，关键是这样。
And, you know, here's the thing.
我最喜欢对可持续性的定义是：你以一种让你更有能力持续参与的方式参与其中。
My favorite definition of sustainability is is that you are participating in a way that leaves you more able to participate.
这意味着你不能把所有资源都押在单一产品上。
That means you're not depleting all your resources on one product.
很多人也会告诉你，在做生意时，不要把所有资源都投入到一个项目、一个产品或一家公司上。
And a lot of people will tell you this too, of what you're doing in business, is don't use all your resources on one project or one product or one business.
因为这个业务、这个产品或这个项目不一定能成功。
Because that business, that product, that project isn't necessarily going to hit it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
它可能只是让你积累经验，为第二或第三个项目成功打下基础。
It might just be the project that gives you the experience to hit it with the second or the third one.
但要想能做第二个或第三个项目，你就不能在第一个项目上把资源耗尽。
But in order to be able to do the second or third one, you have to not deplete yourself on that first one.
是的。
Yep.
当然。
Absolutely.
好了，各位。
Alright, guys.
本集节目短暂插播一下我的BTS布拉德利的三十秒小贴士。
Quick break from this episode for my BTS Bradley's thirty seconds.
这是我的三十秒建议。
Here's my thirty second tip.
我们在本集中讨论了旅行小技巧，这里再分享一个。
We've been talking about travel hacks in this episode, and here's another one.
你听说里奇说过，他总是喜欢坐头等舱或商务舱。
You know, Rich was talking about how he likes always flying first class in business class.
但事实上，有时候这可能会太贵。
But, you know, the the fact of the matter is sometimes it it might be too expensive.
我之前看了一趟国际航班，单程，其实是土耳其航空的。
You know, I was looking at this one international flight, one way, only it was actually on Turkish Airlines.
商务舱票价高达5000美元。
And for business class, it was $5,000.
你知道，不管我将来可能变得多富有，我都不会...
Now, you know, I don't care how rich I could be one day.
我永远不会成为那种愿意花5000美元买一张国际单程机票的人。
I'm never gonna be the kind of person who's like, I'm gonna pay I'm gonna afford $5,000 for a one way international flight.
所以我心想，你知道吗？
So I was like, you know what?
我就直接花600美元买经济舱了。
I'm I'm just paying the $600 for economy.
但我做了一些研究，开始尝试这种方法，成功率大约有50%。
But what I did was, I was, you know, doing some research, and I started trying this, and it's worked of about 50% of the time.
当我去机场取登机牌时，我就直接问他们。
When I go to the airport, you know, to to to get my, boarding pass, I just asked them.
我就说，嘿。
I like, hey.
你们有商务舱的升舱服务吗？
Do you do you have any upgrades available for business class?
他们就以900美元的价格给了我升舱。
And they gave it to me for $900.
好吧？
Alright?
所以那次飞行我花了1400或1500美元。
So so that was, 1,400 or $1,500.
那次飞行我花的就是这个钱。
I was out for that flight.
而如果我直接买票，那就要5000美元了。
Whereas if I would have bought it, it would have it's $5,000.
所以，直接问一问吧。
So just ask.
反正也没什么损失，尤其是在国际航班上。
It it it can't it can't hurt, especially on international flights.
早点办理登机手续，然后在柜台问他们有没有升舱的空位。
Check-in early, and then ask them at the counter, do they have any availability for upgrade?
通常都能以很低的价格拿到。
And you can usually get it for a steal.
我越来越常听到人们在做产品调研时问起这个问题，当他们可能找到十五个、二十个看起来有潜力的潜在产品时，他们会使用各种工具——比如Helium 10或者其他方法——来进一步缩小范围。
I hear people asking, about this more and more when they're doing their their product research and and, you know, maybe they come up with, like, fifteen, twenty potential products that seem to have opportunity, and they they use whatever they, you know, you know, whether it's Helium 10 tools or or whatever they're doing to to try and narrow that down a little bit more.
当筛选到只剩下五六个时，大家通常会给出一个建议：首先，确保这个产品没有专利。
And then when it gets down to, like, five or six, you know, a common word of advice, people say, hey.
当然，我猜要为每一个想法都请像你这样的专业人士来检查，可能并不现实，比如我有十一个点子。
Just, you know, make sure they're first, there's no patent on it.
让我付钱给你们，帮我看一下这十一个产品。
Now, you know, it might not be feasible, I would imagine, to always, you know, use a a professional like yourself for every single you know, I've got 11 ideas.
但有没有一种普通人能用的方法，至少能初步查一下是否存在已有专利？
Let me let me pay you guys to to look up, all 11 of these.
就像我们谈商标时，其实并不需要请律师。
But is there a layman's way to at least start the process of searching if there's existing patents?
我们可以直接去查一下。
You know, like, when we talk about trademarks, you know, we don't need an attorney for that.
比如说，我们可以直接去查。
We can just go, hey.
让我查一下美国专利商标局的数据库，看看这个文字商标是否存在。
Let me just check USPTO database, and I'm gonna see if there's a this word mark exists.
有没有类似的方法可以让普通人自己查找专利呢？
Is there something like that for patents that somebody could do on their own?
是的。
Yeah.
首先，在 uspto.gov 上，你也可以查询专利。
Well, the first of all, at the uspto.gov, you could also look up patents.
但一个更友好的搜索工具是谷歌专利搜索引擎。
But but a friendlier search engine is the Google Patents search engine.
网址是 patents.google.com。
So that's at patents,patents,.google.com.
好的。
Okay.
而且它像其他任何谷歌搜索一样工作。
So and that's it works like any other Google search.
你只需输入一个查询，它就会显示出一些专利。
You just type in a query, and it and it pulls up some patents.
不过，它远非全面。
It's far from comprehensive, though.
这不是找到最接近专利的最佳方法。
It's not the best way to find the closest thing.
比如你输入‘开罐器’，它会显示出一些开罐器，但不一定能找到和你脑海中完全一致的那款开罐器。
You know, you type in can open, it will pull up some can openers for us, but it's not necessarily going to pull up the can opener that's just like what you have in mind.
好的。
Okay.
但它确实是一个不错的入门方式。
But it is a good way to get started.
所以这是一种你可以自己进行的操作方式。
So that's a way that you can do some on your own.
好的。
Alright.
上次我们聊到，伊拉，你甚至都忘了这些定义，但我知道我们讨论过设计专利和实用专利的区别。
Now, the last time know, Ira, you even forgot what the the definitions are, but I know we talked about this was was the difference between design patent and utility patent.
所以你再简要回顾一下两者的区别，然后对于亚马逊卖家来说，大多数人是选择其中哪一种呢？
So if you just briefly review again the difference, and then for Amazon sellers, what do the what are the majority doing, as far as one or the other?
好的。
Okay.
很好。
Great.
首先，设计专利只涉及产品的外观。
So first of all, a design patent is just about the appearance of a product.
它关乎产品的形状。
It's about the shape.
比如，想象一个形状像鸭子的电话。
So think of like a like a telephone that's shaped like a duck.
对吧？
Right?
设计专利保护的是产品的独特设计和独特外观。
The design patent is for that that unique design, that unique appearance.
比如，鸭子的形状本身并不会改变鸭子的功能。
Like, there's nothing about the duck that changes the the duck shape, that changes the functionality.
所以这并不是关于这部电话如何运作的问题。
So it's not about the way that that the this phone functions.
而是关于这种独特的形状。
It's about this unique shape.
这就是设计专利的用途。
That's what a design patent is for.
好的。
K.
实用新型专利保护的是结构差异、功能差异，以及那些让产品比以往发明更优越的特性。
A utility patent is for the structural differences, the functional differences, the things that make it work better than than previous inventions.
这就是实用新型专利的用途。
That's what a utility patent is for.
所以你想象一下，有人在车库里发明了什么东西。
So you think about someone inventing something in their garage.
他们想找到一种更好的方法，在厨房水槽旁分配肥皂。
They're trying to find a better way to dispense soap at your kitchen kitchen sink.
他们想出了一个独特的结构。
And they come up with a unique structure.
这就是实用新型专利的用途。
That's what a utility patent would be for.
现在，外观设计专利比实用新型专利便宜得多。
So now a design patent is much less expensive than a utility patent.
外观设计专利只需几千美元。
A few thousand dollars for a design patent.
实用新型专利肯定超过一万美元。
Utility patent definitely north of 10 k.
因此，申请实用新型专利的成本远高于外观设计专利。
And so it costs a lot more to get a utility patent than a design patent.
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还有几个重要的区别，然后我会讲到亚马逊，告诉你那里是怎么运作的。
A couple other important differences here, and then I'll get to the Amazon and tell you how it works there.
所以，设计专利再次强调的是外观。
So design patent, again, is all about the appearance.
它完全关乎产品的外观。
So it's all about the way that the product looks.
侵犯设计专利的方式是拥有一个外观实质相似的产品。
The way that you infringe a design patent is by having a substantially similar appearing product.
所以你的产品外观实质相似。
So your product appears substantially similar.
这就是侵权的方式。
That's how you infringe.
所以这是视觉上的。
So it's visual.
至于实用专利，发明在侵权判定中的定义是通过所谓的专利权利要求来实现的。
When it comes to utility patent, the way that an invention is defined for the purpose of infringement is with something called patent claims.
专利权利要求是一系列位于专利末尾的句子，用文字列出了构成专利侵权所需具备的所有要素。
Patent claims is a is a are a series of sentences at the end of the patent that lay forth kind of in words all of the items that need to be present for you to infringe the patent.
例如，它可能描述了一张桌子，具有一个平台、一个底面、四个角，以及从底面四个角向下延伸的四条腿。
So for example, it could be for a table having a platform, having a a bottom surface, having and having corners, and having four legs extending downwardly from the corners of the bottom surface.
这种定义方式就是用来判断你是否侵犯了该专利的标准。
So that type of definition is how you compare whether you're infringing that patent.
因此，你是通过文字来构成侵权的。
So you infringe it through words.
而且，在我长达二十七年的职业生涯中，传统上人们认为实用新型专利更有价值，因为它保护的是一个概念。
And often, traditionally, through my career, I've been doing this for twenty seven years, people look at utility patents as being more valuable because, well, it covers a concept.
你知道，对于外观设计专利，只要你改变它的外观，就能规避专利。
You know, with a design patent, you change the way it looks and you get around the patent.
这一直是传统的看法。
That's been the conventional thinking.
但现在，亚马逊出现了。
But now enter Amazon.
由于几个原因，情况不同。
Different scenario for a couple of reasons.
首先，对于外观设计专利来说，只涉及产品的外观，侵权行为仅通过外观即可认定。
You know, number one, when it comes to a design patent, it's just about the appearance, and infringement happens just through the appearance.
所以，如果有人的产品和你的非常相似，看起来一模一样。
So if if someone has a similar product to yours, it looks just like yours.
你拥有外观设计专利。
You have a design patent.
你通过卖家账户提交知识产权投诉，亚马逊会收到你的知识产权投诉。
You make an IP complaint through your seller account, and Amazon gets your IP complaint.
他们查看该产品。
They look at the product.
他们查看那些图片。
They look at the the pictures.
对吧？
Right?
他们会查看你专利中的图纸。
They look at the drawings in your patent.
他们会说：哦，看起来一模一样，于是下架了竞争对手的产品。
They say, oh, well, you know, it looks the same, and they shut down the competitor.
是的。
Mhmm.
当涉及到实用专利时，他们必须审查一些文字定义，比如‘一个平台，其四角有向下延伸的腿’。
When it comes to utility patent, you know, they would have to review some type of definition in words of a platform having corners with legs extending downwardly from the corners of the platform.
相信我，实际情况要复杂得多。
And and believe me, it gets a lot more complicated than that.
所以亚马逊干脆束手无策，说：我们不知道该怎么处理这个。
And so Amazon just basically throws up their hands and they say, we don't know what to do with this.
因此，用设计专利让产品下架很容易。
So it's easy to have something shut down with a design patent.
但用实用专利，就没那么容易了。
With the utility patent, not so easy.
实际上，亚马逊现在有一个流程，涉及第三方专利律师，你必须经过整个流程才能因实用新型专利而让某人停止运营。
And, actually, Amazon now has a process that involves third party patent attorneys where you have to go through this whole process to get someone shut down because of utility patent.
所以通常人们认为实用新型专利非常有价值，而外观设计专利则不然。
So the conventionally, you say utility patents are are really valuable, design patents are not.
但亚马逊的情况恰恰相反。
And Amazon, it's kind of the other way around.
在现实世界中，从法律角度来看，判断某物是否构成侵权或违反专利的依据是什么？
Now in the real world, as far as from a legal standpoint, what's the basis on if something is considered, like, you know, I don't know if the word's infringing, or going against a patent.
比如，它必须与已专利的物品有百分之多少的不同？这到底是怎么运作的？
Like, does it have to be x percent different than what was patented, or or how how does that even work?
是的。
Yeah.
不是。
The no.
好问题。
Great question.
它的运作方式是通过这些专利权利要求。
The way the way that it works is through those patent claims.
所以，再次说明，存在一个界定什么构成侵权的定义。
And so, like, again, there's that definition of what needs to be present to be infringing.
比如，如果定义是：一张桌子具有一个平台、一个顶面和一个底面，四个角上延伸出腿，那么你需要检查被控侵权产品是否满足这些每一个要素，我们称之为权利要求限制。
Like, if if the definition is a table having a platform, having a top surface and a a bottom surface with four corners, legs extending down from the then you look to see if the infringing product meets each and every one of those elements, what we call claim limitations.
所以它是一个平台。
So it is a platform.
它有一个底面。
It has a bottom surface.
它有四个角，并且有四条腿向下延伸。
It has corners, and it has four legs extending downwardly.
如果它不具备所有这些要素，就不构成侵权。
If it doesn't have all of that, it's not infringing.
因此，要构成侵权，产品必须包含至少一项权利要求中的所有要素。
So in order to infringe, it has to have everything present in in at least one of those claims.
它们被称为独立权利要求。
They're called independent claims.
我不想讲得太复杂，但本质上就是这样。
I don't wanna get too complicated on it, but, essentially, that's it.
要构成侵权，就必须包含该权利要求中的所有要素。
It needs to have everything present in that claim to infringe.
顺便说一下，这里有个小提示，对寻求专利的人来说可能会很有帮助。
And, you know, and and by the way, there's just a little lesson here of of what could be helpful to you as a as a person seeking a patent.
当我们撰写专利、提交专利申请时，我们希望这个定义尽可能简单。
When we're when we're writing a patent, when we're producing a patent application, we wanna have that definition be as simple as possible.
比如，平台、四个角、四条腿，就这些。
Like the, you know, the platform, four corners, four legs, that's it.
因为这样一来，别人就很难绕开这个定义。
Because then it's really hard for people to get around that definition.
如果没有任何类似的东西，我们就可以做出如此广泛或如此宽泛的定义。
And we can make a definition that's as big as that or as broad as that if there isn't anything like it.
你知道，一旦出现了类似的东西，比如其他有平台、四条腿和四个角的桌子，我们就不得不添加一些关于轮子、抽屉或其他元素的内容，才能让专利获得批准。
You know, once there are things like it, oh, there are other tables with a platform with four legs and four corners, then all of a sudden now we're having to add things about some wheels or about, like, a drawer or about some other elements to it in order to get the patent through.
但一旦我们通过添加这些额外部件获得了专利，竞争对手就必须拥有所有这些部件才算侵权。
But now once we get that patent through with all those added pieces, they the the competitor needs to have all of those things to infringe.
所以你的专利现在变得更有限了。
So now your patent is more limited.
它变得更狭窄了。
It's more narrow.
这一点很重要：如果你要申请实用新型专利，你不仅要了解自己能否获得专利，
And that's important thing to know is, like, if you're gonna go for utility patent, you wanna know not just that you can get a patent.
那只是开始。
That's just the beginning.
你更需要知道的是，你能获得一个范围广泛的专利，覆盖更多内容，因为你能够为产品制定一个非常简单明了的定义，这样当竞争对手看到时，他们会说：我无法绕开这个。
You wanna know that you can get a patent that's broad, that covers a lot because you are able to create a very simple very simple definition of the product that then if a competitor looks at it, they say, I can't get around this.
我无法做出任何不同的设计。
I can't I can't do anything different.
这太简单了。
This is too simple.
这个定义太简单了。
This is this is too simple of a definition.
我找不到任何可以删掉的部分来避免侵犯这个专利，那还何必呢？
There's there's no piece that I could eliminate to avoid infringing this patent, so why even bother?
何必费劲去复制它呢？
Why even bother trying to copy it?
这样一来，你就拥有了一项有价值的专利。
And then then you know you've got a valuable patent.
从有人开始这个流程，比如聘请你来启动设计专利申请，到专利正式公开，大概需要多少个月？
From the time that somebody starts this process, like, they they they hire you to to start the process of getting a design patent to actually have the patent published, how many months are we talking?
通常大约需要一年。
It's typically about a year.
我觉得通常是一年到一年半。
I I think a year to a year and a half, the most typically.
那在什么时候可以说‘专利申请中’呢？
At what point can you say patent pending then?
一旦你正式提交专利申请，就可以这么说。
At the point at which you actually apply for the patent.
所以，一旦申请文件准备完毕并提交，通常在几个月内就能完成。
So once the application is prepared and filed, which usually within a couple of months that that can be taken care of.
一旦提交申请，就进入专利申请中状态，你可以在产品宣传、商品列表等地方标注‘专利申请中’。
Once it's prepared and filed, then it's patent pending, then you could market patent pending, you know, put it on your listing, that it's a patent pending product, etcetera.
好的。
Okay.
上次我们没谈到这一点，我对这个一无所知。
Something we didn't talk about last time, and I know nothing about.
我甚至不确定你是否了解这个，但我猜你应该知道很多事。
I'm not even sure if you know about it or I'm I'm guessing you know a lot of things.
但是，中国专利呢？你有没有看到越来越多的人在做这个？
But, Chinese patents, like, is this something that you see more people doing?
这些专利在中国具有可执行性吗？
Are these enforceable in China?
它们是无用的吗？
Are they useless?
你建议人们同时在美国和中国申请专利吗？
Do you suggest people get a patent both in The United States and in China?
当然，如果产品是在中国生产的，你知道的。
Of course, you know, if if the product is made, is made in China.
你对中国专利了解多少？
What what what do you know, about Chinese patents?
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以有几点。
So a a few things.
我的意思是，首先，申请中国专利最大的原因是如果你想在中国销售你的产品。
I mean, first of all, the biggest reason to get a Chinese patent is if you want to sell your product in China.
所以，如果你担心产品在中国被制造，但你真正关心的只是美国市场销售，那么你可能不需要中国专利。
So if you're worried about it being manufactured there, but you're really only concerned about The US market for selling the product, then you probably don't need a Chinese patent.
这在全世界都是如此。
And that's true around the world.
专利具有地域性。
It's like patents are territorial.
通常，它们可以阻止他人制造、使用或销售该产品。
Typically, they prevent someone else from making, using, or selling the product.
因此，如果你希望阻止他人在美国制造、使用或销售该产品，美国专利是非常有用的。
So, like, a US patent is is great if you wanna prevent someone from making, using, or selling the product in The US.
如果你担心产品在中国制造后被运到美国，那么再次强调，在美国销售该产品仍构成侵权。
If you're worried about them making it in China and bringing it here, again, selling the product in The US is still an infringement.
所以，一般来说，如果你只关心美国市场，那么美国专利可能就足够了。
So so, generally, if The US is the only market you're really concerned with, then a US patent is all you you probably need.
好的。
Okay.
如果你希望在所有海外市场上获得保护，那么你通常需要在这些国家分别申请专利。
If there are all the foreign markets that you want protection in, then you typically would you'd you'd want to file patents there.
通常的做法是，你先在一个地方申请专利，比如在美国，然后在六个月内，再在你希望获得保护的其他国家提交申请。
And usually, way that it goes or the is that you file the patent in one place, let's say in The US, and then within six months, you would then file in foreign countries where you want protection.
对于外观设计专利，情况也是如此。
And that's the case for design patents.
你可以在六个月后在中国申请，仍然享有美国申请的优先权。
You can you could file, let's say, then in China six months later and still get priority from your US application.
所以，如果有人在你提交美国申请之后、但在你在中国申请之前，提交了相同的中国专利申请，你依然会因为美国申请的优先权而占据优势。
So if someone filed the same China after you filed your US application, but before you filed in China, you would still be ahead of them because of priority from your US.
顺便说一下，对于实用新型专利，期限是一年。
And by the way, for utility patents, the rule is one year.
在一年内，你需要提交海外专利申请。
Within one year, then you file foreign patent applications.
不过我要说的是，如果我们讨论在中国申请专利，而你其实并不需要专利，除非你打算在那里销售产品，但商标的情况就不一定了。
The one thing though I'd wanna say though, since we're if if we're gonna talk about filing patents in China and and maybe you don't really need a patent unless you you don't really need a patent unless you wanna sell the product there, Not necessarily the case for trademarks.
有很多不良行为者会抢注你的商标，然后阻止你出口产品。
There are a lot of bad actors out there that what they've been doing is is getting getting your trademark in China and then preventing you from exporting the product.
我好像听说过这种情况。
I think I've heard about that.
对。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
而且说实话，我也听说过这种情况。
So and and to be honest, I've heard about it too.
我没有参与过诉讼，所以从未直接涉及过这种情况。
I'm not involved in litigation, so I've never been directly involved in it.
但我认识很多人告诉我这确实发生过，我知道一个我们共同认识的人，他说他自己就遇到过。
But I have many people who've told me that this has happened and that I know one in particular that we both know who said it's happened to to him.
但关键是，如果你在中国制造产品，注册中国商标可能是值得的。
But the point is, if you are manufacturing in China, it might pay to get a Chinese trademark.
你或许应该考虑同时注册英文商标和中文翻译商标。
And you might consider getting the trademark both in English and also translated into Chinese.
实际上，这是两个不同的商标。
There are actually two different trademarks.
将商标翻译成中文很有帮助，尤其是当你的包装或纸箱上印有中文时。
And translated into Chinese is helpful, especially if your boxes are marked in or your cartons are marked in Chinese.
这可能是有人阻止你从中国出口自己产品的原因——他们注册了你商标的中文翻译版，从而能够阻止你出口产品。
That could be the reason that someone prevents you from exporting your own product from China because they get your your trademark for the your trademark translated into Chinese, and they're able to stop you from exporting your product.
好的。
Okay.
是的
Yeah.
如果发生这种情况，显然会带来一些不便，我认为。
That's that obviously would be, somewhat of an inconvenience, I think, if that happened.
哦。
Oh,
对。
yeah.
换个话题，你以前讲过这个，但人们在想到专利时，通常不会自然地想到这一点。
Switching gears, something, you you know, I I've heard you speak about before, but it's not something that, you know, somebody naturally, you know, thinks about when they think about patents.
但研究专利如何能成为亚马逊产品研究的一种方式呢？
But how studying patents, can actually be a form of Amazon product research?
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
这是个很好的问题。
That's a great question.
是这样的。
So here's the thing.
专利是有有效期的。
Patents expire.
一旦过期，就任何人都可以使用了。
And when they expire, they're fair game.
换句话说，专利过期后，就会进入所谓的公共领域。
In other words, once the patent expires, it becomes part of what's called the public domain.
这意味着任何人都可以生产该产品。
Meaning anyone can then make that product.
所以我认为你在这里暗示的是，你可以通过研究已过期的专利，寻找那些从未真正面世的专利。
So I think what you're what you're what you're hinting at here is that you can do product research looking at expired patents and finding patents which are maybe they never really hit the light of day.
市面上有很多专利，很多原本是好点子但最终没有进入市场的产品。
There's a lot of patents out there, a lot of things that people patent that were good ideas that don't necessarily make it to the market.
如果你找到二十或二十五年前的过期专利中的某个东西，那你现在就有一个很好的思路，可以据此生产产品。
And if you find something from, let's say, twenty, twenty five years ago in in an expired patent, then you now kinda have a great idea of something that you can produce.
而这个专利，再次强调，已经不再是生产它的障碍。
And that, again, that patent then is no barrier to you producing it.
关于这一点，另一个有趣的地方是，当有人申请专利时，他们必须提供所谓的‘充分公开’。
The the other interesting thing about that is when whenever someone applies for a patent, they need to provide what's called an enabling disclosure.
所谓充分公开，意味着你需要提供足够的信息，使该领域的人员无需过多实验就能实际生产出该产品。
So an enabling disclosure means that you need to provide enough information to enable someone in the field to actually produce the product without too much experimentation.
所以专利中可能没有详细说明尺寸，也可能没有列出每一个螺丝或硬件部件。
So there's no dimensions, and there might not be every screw or piece of hardware described in the patent.
但本质上，必须提供足够多的信息，让别人能够制造出来，这意味着如果你发现了一个已经过期、现在可以自由使用的酷炫创意专利，你不仅有权生产它，还能获得大量如何制造它的信息。
But, essentially, there is enough info there needs to be enough information for someone to build it, which means that if you find a patent for cool idea that's expired and now fair game, not only are you free to make it, but you've got a lot of info on how to do so.
好的。
Okay.
太棒了。
Cool.
我们通常在节目结束时分享一些简短的TST三十秒小贴士。
Now we we usually close the show with with various, TST thirty second, tips.
那我们现在就开始吧。
So let let's go ahead and do that.
比如，我们还没聊过哪些内容？
Like, what haven't we talked about?
不一定非得是三十秒，但最好短一点，这样我们可以讲几个。
You know, it doesn't have to be thirty seconds, but but on the faster side here, so we can get a couple of them in.
那在亚马逊卖家或电商卖家方面，有哪些和你专业领域相关的内容呢？
But what are some things relating to Amazon sellers or ecommerce sellers, that have to do with your your your specialties here?
无论是旅行技巧、专利相关事项、商标，或者其他任何内容。
Either travel hacks again or or patent patent related things or trademarks or anything.
在过去一年半里，你学到了哪些你觉得能帮助我们听众的东西？
What are some things that you've learned over the last year and a half that, you know, you think can help our listeners out there?
这里有一个快速的小贴士。
Well, here's a quick one.
我的意思是，大多数人知道，注册商标对于品牌注册是必要的。
I mean, I think most people know that that trademarks, a registered trademark is necessary for brand registry.
但亚马逊曾通过IP加速器项目，允许某些律师事务所帮助客户在提交商标申请后直接获得品牌注册资格。
But Amazon was giving certain law firms the ability using the IP accelerator program to get their to basically, once they apply for the trademark, that they then could get brand registry for the client.
不过最近这一情况发生了变化，你现在不再需要通过这些IP加速律师事务所了。
Now so this has just changed recently where you don't need to go through one of those IP accelerated law firms.
只要你提交了商标申请，就可以通过你的卖家账户直接申请品牌注册。
If you apply for the trademark, you can then submit for brand registry through your seller account based upon the application.
顺便说一下，亚马逊会监控这一过程。
Amazon will monitor it, by the way.
如果你最终没有获得商标，他们会撤销你的品牌注册资格。
And if you don't end up getting the trademark, they will take the brand registry away.
但过去几个月里，一个有趣的变化是：你可以凭借待审批的商标申请获得品牌注册，而无需使用IP加速律师。
But that's that's an interesting turn over the over the last so many months is that you can, you can get brand registry with a pending trademark application, and you don't need to use an IP accelerator attorney.
好的。
Alright.
所以，里奇，除了Prosper之外，你今年剩下的时间还有哪些会议安排？
So, Rich, what, other than Prosper, what's your conference schedule looking at, like, the rest of the year?
我九月在拉斯维加斯参加White Label Expo，还有一个ASD展会，我想是有的。
I'm doing, White Label Expo in September in Vegas, and I'm doing, I think there's an ASD show.
我并不是在ASD展会本身发言，而是在周边的一些小型活动上演讲。
I I'm speaking at some some not at the actual ASD show, but, like, one of the smaller events around there.
那个活动叫什么来着？
I'm doing what's it called?
我在芝加哥参加RetailX，主题是流量与转化。
RetailX in Chicago, traffic and conversions.
你会参加所有这些活动吗？还有哪些我没提到的？
Are are you gonna be at all of those, and what what other ones haven't I mentioned?
好的。
Okay.
让我想想。
Well, let's see.
是的。
So yeah.
所以我要去Prosper。
So I'm going to I'm going to Prosper.
我在那里有很多活动。
I'm got a bunch of events happening there.
我在那里有个展位。
I've got a a booth there.
那一定会很精彩，但我一点觉都睡不着。
That's it's gonna be a blast, but I'm not gonna sleep one bit.
接下来的一周，我要去加利福尼亚州拉古纳比奇的数字营销者作战室。
The following week, I'm going to Digital Marketers War Room in Laguna Beach.
然后，让我想想，八月份要去佛罗里达州参加一个叫顾问委员会的头脑风暴会。
And then, let's see, going to mastermind called Board of Advisors in Florida in in August.
九月份，我要去参加流量与转化大会，然后从流量与转化大会直接去 Billion Dollar Sell A Seven。
In September, yeah, I'm going to traffic and conversion, and then I'm going from traffic and conversion to to billion dollar sell a seven.
我忘了那个了。
I forgot about that one.
我也会去参加那个。
I'll be there at that one too.
是的。
Yep.
凯文·金的‘十亿美元销售七’。
Kevin King's billion dollar sell a seven.
很棒的活动。
Awesome event.
我将在那里发言。
I'll be speaking at that.
实际上，我会谈谈专利侵权以及专利侵权是如何运作的。
Actually, gonna be talking about patent infringement and how patent infringement works.
我会深入探讨这个话题。
Gonna dive deep into that.
那会很有趣。
That'll be fun.
然后那之后，我会直接去奥兰多参加Funnel Hacking Live，这样九月就结束了。
And then after that, I'm going right to Orlando for Funnel Hacking Live, and then that rounds out September.
之后还有很多安排。
There's a bunch more after that.
通过这么多旅行，继续保持你的Premier One K等级吧。
Keeping that premier one k status strong with all that travel.
我喜欢这样。
I love it.
是的。
Yeah.
好的，里奇。
Alright, Rich.
如果人们对旅行积分攻略或者专利、商标以及这些有趣的内容还有更多问题，他们该如何在网上找到你？
If people have further questions either about travel hacking or about patents, trademark, and and all this fun stuff here, how can they find you on the interwebs?
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
只需访问我的网站 goldsteampatentlaw.com。
Just just check out my website, goldsteampatentlaw.com.
那里有很多很好的资源，可以帮助你了解整个流程。
There are, you there are great resources there for learning about the process.
你也可以看看我的播客，布拉德利，你得来参加一次。
You might wanna also check out my my podcast, which, Bradley, you have to come on.
我会的。
I I will.
你知道，我们还没做过，但我已经邀请过很多共同的朋友了。
You know, we haven't that's something we haven't done, but I I've had, like, lots of our common friends on there.
比如凯文、凯文·金、布兰登·杨、史蒂夫·西蒙斯，还有那些家伙。
I'm like, Kevin, you know, Kevin King and, you know, Brandon Young and Steve Simons and all those guys.
所以你一定要来参加。
And so you've gotta come on.
但这个播客叫《创新与突破》，里面有很多走过这条路的人的精彩故事。
But the podcast is called Innovations and Breakthroughs, and there's just awesome stories from people who've been down this road.
所以无论在哪个平台听播客，都去听听吧。
So check that out anywhere podcast is streamed.
还有，网站是 goldsteampatentlaw.com。
And, again, website, goldsteampatentlaw.com.
太好了。
Excellent.
太好了。
Excellent.
好了，里奇。
Alright, Rich.
很好，期待在接下来的活动中见到你，像往常一样，感谢你提供的资源，让我有时能坐上联合航空的商务舱或头等舱。
Well, we'll be it'll be fun to see you at these these upcoming events, and and I'll I'll as always, thanks for the hookups and and letting me, get to to business or first class sometimes on United.
非常感谢。
Appreciate it.
好的。
Alright.
谢谢，布拉德利。
Thanks, Bradley.
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