夜行人：马克·龙森谈DJ与90年代的纽约

你从九十年代初，十几岁晚期的时候，开始认真地玩DJ Bug。

You started seriously getting the DJ Bug around the early nineties when you were in your late teens.

是的。

Yeah.

你经常出没在一些非常传奇的嘻哈俱乐部，比如Limelight、Tunnel和Club USA，紧追着你的偶像DJ Stretch Armstrong的脚步。

And you were hanging out in some really legendary hip hop clubs like Limelight and Tunnel and Club USA, and you were kind of snapping at the heels of your hero, DJ Stretch Armstrong.

对。

Yeah.

跟我们说说那个场景吧。

Tell us about that scene.

就是，跟我们讲讲，是什么让你着迷的？

Like, tell us, like, what what got you hooked?

我的意思是，有很多原因。

I mean, it was so many things.

比如纽约，那时这些巨型超级俱乐部正处于尾声，形成了一种奇特的对比。

Guess New York, it was sort of this juxtaposition of these giant super clubs, like the tail end of that.

你提到的那些俱乐部，Tunnel、Limelight、USA，都是同一个人拥有的，这个人叫彼得·加顿，他简直就是俱乐部之王，当朱利安尼当选市长后，就把他列为公开的头号敌人，决心要整垮他，这件事在书里也占了很大篇幅，讲的是他是如何关闭这些场所、改变城市风貌，让纽约变得糟糕的。

So the clubs that you mentioned, Tunnel, Limelight, USA, which were all owned by the same guy, this guy Peter Gation, who was, like, the king of clubs who Giuliani had, like, made it him public numb enemy number one when he came in as mayor, like, to take this guy down, and he Giuliani was and it kinda comes up in the book with such a big part of closing down and changing and making New York shitty.

但在那时，你还有那些很棒的地下地下室俱乐部，可能只能容纳一百到两百人，就像下东区周围那些肮脏隐秘的角落。

But he but at that time, you had these amazing hole in the wall basement clubs that might be like a 100 or 200 people, like, which are like the underground, like the grimy spots around, like, Lower East Side.

然后你还有那些超级俱乐部。

And then you had the super clubs.

还有我经常去参加的一些派对，是为了看我朋友比尔·斯佩克特，我的意思是，当时我还不认识他，但他就是Stretch Armstrong的DJ。

And then, like, a lot of the parties that that I went to to see my friend that my friend Bill Spector, from Moto I I mean, he wasn't my friend at the time, but we're Stretch Armstrong DJ.

这些派对每周都会换地方。

They would be, like, one week, it would move around.

有一周，它可能在一座废弃的康爱迪生变电站里举行。

One week, it would be in, like, an unused Con Edison substation.

下一周，它又可能在Indochine餐厅的下方空间举行。

And then, like, the next week, it would be, like, in the space underneath Indochine.

总会有这些令人惊叹的巨大场所，比如仓库之类的，每个人都想搞点不一样的东西，这恰恰与后来一切变得如此千篇一律的情况完全相反。

There would always be these incredible giant, you know, warehouses or things that you would nobody everybody wanted to do something different, which was like kind of the opposite of what happened when everything became so conformist.

所以我当时只是到处去这些地方，其实我还没到能进去的年龄。

So I was just going to all these places, like, I wasn't even old enough to get in.

我不知道该怎么混进去，所以人们都以为我18岁，但看起来像14岁。

I didn't know how for the people so people would, you know I I was 18 and I looked 14.

所以，有时候我会被偷偷带进去，或者干脆想办法讨好别人。

So, you know, I was getting snuck in sometimes or just, like, ingratiating myself.

等我到了19、20岁的时候，我已经在一些俱乐部里当DJ了。

And then by the time I was 19, 20, I was DJ ing in some of these clubs.

是的。

Yeah.

我特别喜欢你把这些经历讲得如此深入细致，有时候我都记不清自己早餐吃了啥。

I I love how, like, in-depth and in detail you go into all these experiences, and sometimes I can't even remember what I had for breakfast.

我知道你在致谢里提到，为了写这本书，你采访了数百人。

And so it's I I know that, you know, you write in your acknowledgments that you interviewed hundreds of people for this

书。

book.

是的。

Yeah.

这本书读起来确实像一段场景的历史，也像是你进行如此详尽研究后所积累的集体记忆。

And it really does read like the history of a scene and also like a collective memory, I guess, from all this exhaustive research that you did.

写这本书的过程对你来说是怎样的？

What was the process of writing this book like for you?

是的。

Yeah.

我确实这么做了。

I did.

我一定联系了一百到一百五十个人，都是那个年代的人，我知道你也是这种性格，因为你连每天的日程都规划得精确到分钟，比如淋浴时间从十一点到十一点零五分。

I I must have called like, I spoke to a 100, a 150 people from, you know, from that time, and I I got, like, very like, I I get the feeling you're a bit like this because I know how you plan your day, like, down to the minute, like, shower eleven to eleven o five.

但我房间里到处都是成百上千张笔记卡片，几乎像在做分镜脚本，我知道每个章节都会围绕一家不同的俱乐部展开，并且按时间顺序排列。

But I had, like, this crazy hundreds and hundreds of note cards all over the room with over different like, almost storyboarding it out, and I knew that the chapters were gonna each chapter was gonna be like a different club, and it was gonna go chronologically.

我会只打电话给那些我当前章节需要的人，因为如果我操之过急，要联系的人实在太多了。

And I would just call the people that I needed for that chapter, because if I started to get ahead of myself, you know, there were so many people to call.

然后我会想到一些人，很遗憾的是，有些我本打算联系的人，我只能下个月再联系他们了。

And then I think of people, and then very sadly, some people that I were gonna call that I'll call them next month.

比如，有两三位已经去世了。

Like, two or three people passed away.

这本书里涉及的很多人已经不在了，甚至还有几位是在书出版后才离世的。

Like, this book has so many people that are not here anymore as well, and and even a couple that passed since the book's been out.

所以我不想太伤感，但我确实想纪念很多人。

So not to get too sad, but it I did wanna celebrate a lot of people.

但是啊，我就开始一个个打电话联系他们。

But yeah, and I would just start to call them.

当你有二十五年没联系过一个人时，你总不能直接问：‘你还记得关于我的什么有趣故事吗？’

And then, you know, as people you haven't called in twenty five years, you can't be like, do you remember any funny stories about me?

你知道，夜总会这种地方是没有终身职位的。

Like, you know, like it's and and and nightclubs are like, there's no tenure.

对吧？

You know?

就像很多人没能从这个场景的另一端幸存下来。

Like, people have had a lot of people haven't made it out on the other pretty side of this scene.

就像，你需要赢得人们的信任，和他们聊上几次之后，才能开始问一些关于这本书的问题和故事。

It's like, earning people's trust and, you know, talking to them a few times before we started talking about asking questions and stories about the book and stuff.

但是的，我想尽可能地描绘出这个场景。

But, yeah, I wanted to paint the the scene as much.

尽管我写的是第一人称的回忆录，而不是口述历史，但我记得有一个晚上，我一直在DJ的俱乐部New Music Cafe，Biggie带着五十个人来到门口。

Even though I was writing a first person memoir, not an oral history, like, one of the nights I remember always hearing about was when I was DJing at this club, New Music Cafe, and Biggie rolled up to the door with 50 people.

这个故事我永远都记得，但我从未真正去问过所有保安和门卫当时发生了什么，而这些正是我需要了解来还原整个场景的。

I know this story forever, but I never actually went and asked all the security guys and the door guy what happened, which is what I needed to paint the thing.

而且，你知道，从那以后，我的脑细胞已经受损不少了。

So and then also, I'd, you know, I'd did a lot of damage to my brain cells since then.

我需要向人们提问，同时这也是一次与人们重新建立联系的美好经历。

I needed I needed to ask people questions to and it was also beautiful reconnecting with people as well.

这本书出版后最美好的一件事之一，就是它讲述了许多不为人知的场景。

And one of the nicest things about this book, how it's been out, because it's it's it talks a lot about an unsung scene.

这并不是关于Studio 54的故事，那里人人都知道比安卡·贾格尔骑着白马入场，你知道的。

It's not the story of Studio fifty four where everybody knows Bianca Jagger came in on a white horse, you know.

这些是让纽约成为今天模样的人，但他们可能并不是家喻户晓的名字。

These are like people who made New York what it is now who might not be household names to everybody.

所以最令人欣慰的是，人们会说：是的，你讲出了我们的故事，或者你为那个时代增光添彩，诸如此类的话。

So the nicest thing has been people being like, yeah, you told our story or like, yeah, you did the era proud or whatever it is.

太棒了。

Amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我太喜欢了。

I love that.

我的意思是，我跟你在录音室待过那么多次，亲眼见过你是怎么工作的，你写书时也像做制作一样，保持着同样的严谨态度。

I mean, I've been in the studio with you so many times and I've seen how you work and it just really seems like you added that same level of discipline to the way that you the same way that you do your producing, seem to do your writing as well.

我只是想知道，在整个过程中，有没有人鼓励和支持你，或者你有没有一个导师，可以经常去找他寻求反馈，读你所有的

And I was just wondering if you had anyone encouraging you and supporting you throughout the way or a mentor of some kind that you would always go to to, I don't know, get some feedback and someone who would read all your

我的优秀编辑科林·迪克曼，我觉得他今天在这儿。

Well, my amazing editor Colin Dickerman, who I think is here.

是的。

Yeah.

所以科林曾说。

So Colin was Hey.

当然，我在致谢中也提到过，但当我回看第一年发给他的那些内容时，我想：他怎么没直接把这些全撕了，说‘我这钱白花了’。

Definitely And I say this in the acknowledgments, but like, when I read back the stuff that I was sending him the first year, I was like, how did he not just like tear all this up and be like, I've thrown all this money away.

这简直是一团糟。

This is garbage.

但他却说：我相信你最终会找到感觉的。

And he was like, I had faith you would find it.

还有我的妻子格蕾丝，她就在这儿，她就像你一样。

And then also my my wife, Grace here, she's she's like you.

她是个如饥似渴的读者，非常有文化素养。

She's such a voracious reader, she's so literate.

在头几年，我根本不想给她看任何东西，因为我总觉得不行，但偶尔她会走下来，因为我读过斯蒂芬·金的书。

Like, I didn't wanna show her anything in the first few years because I was just like but every now and then she would walk down because I read in the Stephen King book.

我的意思是，这太尴尬了，但当我决定要写这本书时，我去了麦克纳利杰克逊书店。

I mean, this is so embarrassing, but when I decided I was gonna write this book, I went into McNally Jackson.

我当时想，如果想写书，书都在哪儿？

I was like, where are the books if you wanna write a book?

他们说，那边。

And they were like, that way.

于是我走到后面，拿起了玛丽·卡尔的《回忆录的艺术》和斯蒂芬·金的《写作这回事》。

So I went in the back, and I picked up Mary Carr's The Art of Memoir and Stephen King's, yeah, and Stephen King's On Writing.

我认真地记住了斯蒂芬·金说的，把自己锁在地下室里，每天五小时。

And I took very to heart the Stephen King, like, lock yourself in a basement, you know, five hours a day.

于是我把自己锁在了我们家的地下室里。

So I locked myself in our basement.

每隔一阵子，格蕾丝就会下楼，而我正一边打字一边自言自语，她一出现我就吓一跳，但我还在继续口述，比如‘标签上说’，然后她就会问：‘你在这儿干嘛呢？’

And every now and then, Grace would come down and I'd be like typing away talking to myself, and I'd jump as she came down, and I'd be but I'd be dictating like, and the label said, you know, and she like, what are you doing down there?

直到今天，这还是我们之间的内部笑话。

It's still our inside joke to this day.

比如，她要是突然打断我讲话，还一副可怜巴巴的样子。

Like, if she'll just cut me off in the middle of talking to me like, and the label's sad.

那就是整个创作过程的样子。

Like that's so that was the process.

是的。

Yeah.

就像我提到的，我们合作过很多次，好几次了。

Like I mentioned, we've worked so many times, several times together.

第一次合作是我们一起做《Electricity》那首歌，大概是八年前的事了。

And the first time was when we did Electricity together, which was about eight years ago.

我们一直反复回录音棚，最近刚发布的作品应该是《芭比》电影里的那首歌《Dancer Night》。

And we keep going back into the studio and I guess the most recent thing that we've made that's come out was the Barbie song, Dancer Night.

是的。

Yeah.

我相信你记得我们为这首歌来回修改了多少次。

And I'm sure you remember how many times we went back and forth on that.

我觉得我对此有点创伤后应激障碍了

I think I've got PTSD for

实际上确实有点。

that actually a little bit.

是的。

Yeah.

那真是改了太多遍了。

It was just so much rewriting.

我觉得我们俩都觉得这首歌还有很多小地方可以调整，但最终结果真的很值得。

I think we both just felt like the song could have done with so many different little tweaks, and it it it paid off in the end.

但我喜欢和你一起创作，我觉得你真的能推动每一位艺术家再往前迈一步。

But I love writing with you and I feel like you really push every single artist to go that little bit further.

我认为这就是你如此特别的原因，你能让与你合作的人发挥出最好的水平。

I think that's what makes you really special and you get the best out of the people that you work with.

但我不确定。

But I don't know.

我认为你对音乐的了解以及你融合不同音乐风格的能力，这一切都源于你早期的经历——去俱乐部打碟、懂得如何混音、知道哪些黑胶唱片搭配得好，还要搬着沉重的唱片箱上下楼梯。

I think your your knowledge of music and how you're able to blend genres, I think all of that really comes down to all the all your early experiences and going and playing and DJing in clubs and knowing how to mix and, you know, what vinyls go and carrying all the crates up and down the stair.

你知道，所有这些经历，我认为它们共同塑造了你的坚韧、天赋，以及你每次都能创造出独特作品的能力。

You know, all those things, I think they they kind of bring in the the the hardiness and the talent and, like, your ability to be able to create something really unique every time.

但我一直想知道，你当初是否一直有这种愿景，认为打碟最终会引导你走向作词作曲和制作？

But what I was wondering was did you always have kind of the vision that that DJing was gonna lead to to songwriting and producing?

没有。

No.

实际上，就像我说的，我最初是在学校乐队和高中乐队里开始的，后来我渐渐有了某种粗浅的顿悟——这种顿悟算粗浅吗？

Actually, so, like I said, I started out in my school band and this high school band, and then I kind of realized, you know, in some kind of crude realization awakening that is it crude?

不算。

No.

这是一种残酷的觉醒。

It's a rude awakenings.

我应该回去从麦克纳利杰克逊书店再拿几本书。

I should go back and get some more books from McNally Jackson.

我意识到自己永远不会像Slash或那种炫技的吉他手John Frusciante那样。

That that I was never gonna be like Slash or the shreddy guitar player, John Frusciante or somebody.

然后我发现了DJ这件事，这同样是音乐，而且是我无比热爱的。

So and then I found this thing that was DJing that was this other thing that was still music, and it was like I was so passionate about.

但到了五六年之后，我突然对自己说：天啊。

But it got to the point where like five, six or seven years in that I then I did I did kinda think to myself like, oh, fuck.

我已经失去了创作音乐的那种感觉。

I've lost that thing about making music.

你知道吗？

You know?

我不再创作音乐了。

I I don't I don't make music anymore.

你知道吗，你每周五晚都做到凌晨五点，回家后还继续去派对狂欢。

You know, you DJ five nights a week until five in the morning, and you come home, and you stay out partying.

你三点钟才醒。

You wake up at three.

到了下午，你最不想做的事就是打开鼓机去创作音乐。

In the afternoon, the last thing you're really feeling like doing is, like, firing up the drum machine to make some music.

你知道吗？

You know?

所以我花了挺长时间，而且是以一种特别迂回的方式，但生活本来就是这样。

So it took me a while, and actually, in this very roundabout way, but that's how life happens.

正是DJ这件事让我重新回到了音乐创作，因为一位了不起的A&R音乐制作人多米尼克·谢尼尔——他也不在了——曾管理过D'Angelo和艺人Nika Costa。

DJing is what brought me back to making music because this incredible A and R music impresario, Dominic Cheniere, who's also no longer with us, but he managed D'Angelo and this artist, Nika Costa.

他在九十年代末经常来俱乐部看我打碟，那时候我已经小有名气了。

And he used to come to see me DJing the clubs in the late nineties, and I was known at that time now.

这已经是六七年之后的事了，我渐渐出了名，还因为把摇滚乐、白条纹乐队、AC/DC和Biggie、Rufus、Chaka Khan的音乐混在一起打碟而闻名——那会儿还没什么混音曲，这种做法在当时可是相当特别。

This is, like, six or seven years, and I've kind of become well known and also for mixing rock and roll and The White Stripes and ACDC with Biggie and Rufus and Chaka Khan, and this is before, like, mashups, and that was, like, such a common thing.

他有着一副惊人的嗓音。

And and he was like he had this amazing voice.

就像他从六岁起就一直在吞刀片一样，他就是那种人。

Like, he'd been gargling razor blades since he was six, and he was like, go.

他说：‘我有这个本事’，你知道吗？他跳舞时总是满身是汗，但舞技真的超棒。

He's like, I got this You know, he'd dance over while he was always like sweaty, but like a really good dancer.

他说：‘我签了一个白人女孩到我的厂牌，我不知道专辑该是什么声音，但应该感觉像你的一个DJ演出，比如Big E、EBMD、ACDC，所有那些东西。’

Was like, I got this white chick signed to my label, and you know, I don't know what an album should sound like, but it should feel like one of your DJ sets, know, like Big E, EBMD, ACDC, all that shit.

我当时说：是的。

I was like, yeah.

酷。

Cool.

让她来我家吧。

Like, bring her by the house.

那位歌手就是Nika Costa，那是我制作的第一张专辑，也让我因此小有名气。

And it was this artist, Nika Costa, and that was the first record that I'd produced and sort of, like, you know, kind of made my name with that.

我们再多聊聊俱乐部吧，因为有一个晚上我特别想谈，那就是叫‘Juicy’的夜晚。

Let's talk a little bit more about about the clubs because there's one night in particular I wanna talk about, and that's a night called Juicy.

那个活动在星期天晚上于Buddha Bar举办，是由贝琳达·贝克尔和丽莎·库珀组织的派对。

Which was on Sunday nights at the Buddha Bar, and it was a it was a party thrown by Belinda Becker and also Lisa Cooper.

是的。

Yeah.

我在了解这个活动时特别喜欢的一点是，他们有非常严格的入场规定。

And what I loved while I was reading about this was they had very, very strict entry rules.

入场规则是每进一个男人，必须有三个女人，因为他们相信派对上男人越少越好。

It was three women admitted to every man because they believed that parties were better with fewer men around.

对。

Yeah.

这没错。

Which is true.

你形容那是场火爆至极的派对，我当时就想：好吧，我一定要去参加。

And and you you described it as a white hot party, and I I was just like, alright, I'm I'm trying to be there.

是的。

Yeah.

我正努力想进去。

I'm trying to I'm trying to get in that.

所以告诉我那到底是什么样子的。

So just tell me what what what that was like.

布达佩斯的活动简直太棒了，但我只是听说，因为我根本进不去。

Well, Budapest was just was amazing, and I say this only from hearsay because I never got in.

但那里有个规定，我想如果是男生，就得带三个或四个女生？

But there was this rule, and I think it was at three if you were a guy, you had to come with three women or four women?

三个。

Three.

我脑子里想象着那种场景，贝尔inda在打碟，可能伦尼·克拉维茨也混进去了，我敢肯定，因为每当他走进房间，四个女生就会凭空出现。

And and it was and I just imagined in my brain this, you know, this incredible and Belinda DJing and probably Lenny Kravitz somehow got in, I'm sure, because when he walked into a room, four women just materialized out of thin air.

我和我朋友当时十九二十岁，根本不在乎这些。

And and so me and my friend but part of the thing when you're 19 or 20, you don't care.

晚上站在外面进不去，这也是乐趣的一部分。

Part of what's so fun on a night is like standing outside not getting in.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

这也是体验的一部分。

Like also So part of the experience.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我们还会说，哦，我们肯定被列在伦尼的黑名单上了。

And and saying like, oh, we're on the Lenny must have put us on the no.

还有，你知道吗，拒绝和 denial 是纽约最丰富的可再生资源。

And then also, like, you know, rejection and denial are two of New York's most renewable resources.

我们都知道。

We know that.

所以你就会站在外面，进不去，或者想象里面有多棒。

So you would just stand outside, not get in, or imagine how great it was.

但Budapar就是这样一个地方，它真的像我想象中那么神奇吗？

But Budapar is one of those places, really, was it as magical as I imagined it to be?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我其他晚上在Budapar打过碟，但从来没在周日打过。

I DJed at Budapar on other nights, but but never on Sunday.

不是在Juicy。

Not on Juicy.

我一直在想，对女性来说，尤其是对女性DJ来说，当时的俱乐部氛围怎么样？

I was I was wondering what was the club scene like for for women and, like, particularly for women DJs?

你觉得现在这方面有太大变化吗？

And do you think it's it's evolved much now?

我很难说，因为我现在不像以前那样常去俱乐部了，但那时Belinda是纽约最棒的DJ之一，还有DJ Kyory。

I I it's hard for me to say because I'm not in the clubs as much as I was, but Belinda was one of the great DJs in New York at that time, and there was DJ Kyory.

女DJ的数量没有男DJ那么多。

There weren't as many as there were male DJs.

但贝琳达和她的搭档邦妮在纽约举办过最棒的嘻哈派对，那就是周一晚上的Cheetah。

It was but Belinda and her partner Bonnie also threw the best hip hop party in all of New York, which was Cheetah on a Monday night.

那是最疯狂的一个夜晚。

And that was that was the craziest night.

他们在那里收费。

And they charged there.

并不是说你必须带四个女人来，但女性只需付5美元，男性却要付50美元。

It was it wasn't like, you didn't have to be come with four women, but it was $5 for women and $50 for men.

因为她知道她能这么做，因为每个人都想来这个地方。

So because she knew she could get away with it, because everyone wanted to go there.

我记得有一次Jay Z来了，他站在收银台那里，大概在抱怨费用太高，而邦妮，这位南方魅力十足的女士，就站在那里，她看着我。

So I remember there was this one time that Jay Z rolled up, and and he's, like, sort of at the cash register, probably grumbling about the amount, And Bonnie, who's like this, you know, southern charmer, like, it's it's just there, and she looks at me.

她说：‘我敢肯定，你将来会比我这辈子能想象到的还要富有。’

She's like, I'm pretty sure you're gonna be, like, richer than I could ever imagine in all of my life.

杰伊·扎只是看着她，说：‘没错’，然后递了450美元。

And Jay Z just looked at her and was like, yep, and handed over $450.

他们俩都说对了。

And they were both right.

所以，是的。

So but yeah.

不。

No.

他们举办的派对简直太棒了，我偶尔能在周一晚上去Cheetah打个碟，这至今仍是那段时光里我最珍贵的回忆之一。

It was the parties that they did were were incredible, and I got to occasionally play a cheat on a Monday night, and it's it's still one of my favorite memories of of any time of of that time.

是的。

Yeah.

你后来在Buddha Bar获得了自己的演出机会，但我猜那并没有按计划进行，因为首先，你放了另一个场地的鸽子。

And you and you eventually got your own gig at Buddha Bar, which I guess didn't quite go as planned because first of all, you sacked off another venue Yeah.

为了去那里演出，这有点违背了当时的一切常态。

To play there, which kinda goes against Anything happening.

这就像一种

It's breach like a

DJ的

of DJ

潜规则。

code.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，就像某种恶报，你在书里提到，当你刚到时，有个叫杰夫·布朗的DJ也在演出。

And, like, some form of bad karma, you kinda describe in your book how there's another DJ playing when you first arrive called Jeff Brown.

他对你说：我受够了你们这些白人DJ跑来抢走所有该死的演出机会。

And he says to you, I'm sick of all you white boy DJs coming around and taking all the fucking gigs.

是的。

Yeah.

这其实也有道理，因为在这个全是嘻哈俱乐部的圈子里，虽然舞池里的人可能很多元，但这些俱乐部大多位于白人聚居区。

Which was a fair gripe as well because, you know, like, in this scene where they was all hip hop clubs, and the club the clubs, while they might be, like, diverse on the dance floor, they were mostly in white neighborhoods.

有些俱乐部老板确实带有明显的种族歧视。

Some club owners were, you know, kind of, like, honestly straight up racist.

其他人则只是觉得，如果你是白人DJ，他们可能也会更放心一些。

Others were just like, if you're a white DJ, maybe they, you know, they felt more comfortable with you too.

所以当时见到杰夫，就像给我敲了一记警钟。

So that time seeing Jeff was like was a wake up call.

后来我们成了非常好的朋友，那天晚上还一起表演了。

And then we became very good friends and and played that night together.

但是

But

是的。

Yeah.

我读到这部分时，感觉杰夫说的话真的深深影响了你。

I just felt like when when I was reading it, it felt like what Jeff said really kind of stuck with you.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我想知道，当时你对这种情况有多清楚？

And so I was wondering how aware were you of that at the time?

我有注意到。

I I was.

我 definitely 意识到了，你知道，Stretch Armstrong、我自己、Jules，很多DJ都是白人。

I was definitely aware of it, you know, Stretch Armstrong, myself, Jules, you know, a lot of the DJs were white.

与此同时，很多主办方都是黑人，而我们都彼此互相支持演出。

The meanwhile, like, you know, a lot of the promoters were black and, you know, we all kind of played for each other.

当时整个场景根本没有多少紧张气氛，但Jeff说了那番话之后，虽然只是随口一提，却让我很受震动，因为我经常会去读他的专栏，心想：嘿。

There wasn't a lot of tension in the scene at all, but it was it was when Jeff said that, even though it was kinda like shook me because I like I would just go into his column and like, hey.

我想我今晚本该在这里演出的。

I I think I'm supposed to be playing here tonight.

他却说：不行。

And he was like, no.

我是Jeff Brown。

I'm Jeff Brown.

你他娘的是谁？

Who the fuck are you?

我当时就说：‘什么？’

And I was like, well, what?

他说：‘把耳机摔下去。'

He was like, slam the headphones down.

我受够了你们这些混蛋到处来抢演出机会。

I'm sick of all you fucking people coming around taking the gigs.

但那确实是个不错的经历。

And and it was it was a good yeah.

这也是一次很好的警醒。

It was a good wake up call as well.

但确实如此。

But it yeah.

那是真的，而且是我必须在书里谈一谈的事情。

It was, and it was something that I wanted to you I had to talk about in the book.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我特别喜欢你在书中如此坦诚地谈论那些妥协、失误，以及你刚起步时所做的一切。

I I love how candid you are just throughout the book, and about the compromises, and the missteps, and all the things that you did while you were starting out.

我觉得你所说的一切都充满了真诚、真实和原始的情感。

I felt like there was just such an honesty and a realness and a rawness to everything that you were saying.

我想这其中很大一部分是成长的阵痛，是学习和理解你的技艺、理解这个行业，以及理解这一切意味着什么。

And I guess a lot of that is growing pains and learning and understanding your craft and understanding the industry and understanding what that's like.

我不知道。

And I don't know.

对我来说，我只是觉得，比如你和朋友肖恩·列侬之间的那些事，我真的感觉

For me, I was just like, you know, even things like with your friend, Sean Lennon, I I just feel

我为了让我们在新音乐研讨会上获得一个演出机会，出卖了我最好的朋友。

I sold out my best friend to get us a gig and like, at the new music seminar.

那真是太糟糕了。

It was so bad.

我不确定我有没有告诉过他这个故事，但我写完这本书后，

And I don't know if I'd even told him this story, and and then I finished the book.

就觉得还是把这一章发给Sean吧，你知道的。

Was like, better just send Sean this chapter, you know.

是的。

Yeah.

但我总觉得，我不知道。

I but I I thought it was I don't know.

分享这些内容需要很大的勇气。

It just took quite a lot of courage to to share them.

当你把这些写进书里的时候，那种感觉是怎样的？

Like, how like, what did that feel like when you were putting it in the book?

我想当我开始写的时候才意识到，我原本并没有打算写一本极其个人化、关于吸毒或低谷经历的书。

I think I just realized as I started to write it, I didn't intend to write an extremely personal book or about taking drugs in the kind of, like, lows and things like that.

但当我开始写的时候，我意识到，如果我这么做，这本书会更好。

But I realized, as I started to, was like, this book will be better if I do these things.

我还注意到，当我们录音室里制作歌曲时，你会想，如果再加上一个副歌，可能会让歌曲更好。

And I noticed also, when we're in the studio working on a song and you're like, oh, if we just put that one extra hook in it, it might be that much better.

可能会增加它成为热门歌曲的机会，或者类似的说法。

It might be more of a chance of being a hit or whatever we'd say.

我意识到，每次我真正坦诚、真实地表达时，这本书都会变得更好，即使这意味着更暴露自己。

And I realized, like, each time I was really raw and honest, like, the book was gonna get better, even if it was more exposing.

这会是一本更好的书，可能更能引起人们的共鸣。

It gonna be a better book that might resonate more with people.

所以，这就是全部了。

So that that was it.

还有，比如写我妈妈的事，那时候我大概19岁，我妈妈会去那些嘻哈俱乐部，我会想，妈妈，你知道的，我当时就是个傲慢的小子。

And then also, like, writing about my mom, you know, when I was, like, 19 and my mom was, like, showing up to these hip hop clubs, I'd be like, mom, like, you know, like, there was, like I was, like, this snotty kid.

然后我可能也有一种心理负担，毕竟我来自一个上城区的摇滚家庭，却要在这类嘻哈俱乐部里闯出一片天地。

And then I probably also was, you know, had this hang up, like, coming from this rock and roll privileged family uptown trying to make my way in these hip hop clubs.

当我写这本书时，我发现我妈妈是这本书里最有趣的人。

And and as I was writing the book, I was like, oh, my mother's like the funniest person in this book.

我觉得我需要更多她的内容，你知道的，就在书的雏形刚开始成形的时候。

Like, I need more of her in here, you know, like, and just as I was starting to feel the book form.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这一点是我特别喜欢的。

I mean, that was something that I loved.

当然，还有所有的音乐历史，因为我知道你，知道你对这个有多热情。

Of course, like all the music history, because I know you, I know how passionate you are about that.

看到你整个旅程中贯穿始终的这条线索，对我来说也特别激动。

That was also so exciting for me to see such a, I don't know, a through line throughout your whole journey.

我认为，这种真诚和真实让每一个瞬间都充满了你的心血与灵魂。

I think the honesty and the rawness really brought your heart and soul to every single moment.

你说得对，有时候那些最真实的东西，往往也是最难开口谈论的，但正是这些构成了它的心灵与灵魂。

And you're right, sometimes the things that do feel like the most honest are sometimes the most daunting things to but talk it's what makes it's like the, yeah, the heart and soul of it.

所以我真的很喜欢这本书。

So I just I I really loved it.

我在这本书里注意到的一点是，里面完全没有八卦内容。

And and something that I really noticed in the book is there's, like, there's no gossip in the book.

确实如此。

There's, yes.

有迈克尔·杰克逊在肖恩·列侬公寓里把湿透的纸团扔出窗外的情节。

There's Michael Jackson throwing soggies out the window

是的。

Yeah.

当时他正住在肖恩·列侬的公寓里。

While he was staying at at Sean Lennon's apartment.

对。

And Yeah.

是的，我想说

And yeah, I guess Do

你们知道什么是soggies吗？

you guys know what soggies are?

它们就是紧紧团起来的湿纸巾球。

They're just like tightly mound wet balls of toilet paper.

如果你从足够高的窗户扔出去，它们会发出令人震惊的声音。

And if you throw them out of a high enough window, they will make a devastating sound.

然后你有一次因为播放《Sexy Motherfucker》被王子训斥了。

And then once you did get told off by Prince for playing sexy motherfucker.

是的。

Yes.

但是

But

我大部分时候都被王子训斥过。

I mostly got told off by Prince a lot.

我在书里只写了一个关于它们的故事。

I only wrote about one of them in the book.

但我觉得，我更想沉迷于研究垫片的厚度这类事情。

But but mostly I feel like I feel like I don't know, you'd rather be like nerding out on the thickness of slip mats.

是的。

Yes.

而且那正是

And That's

买最佳唱机唱针的地方，而不是谁对谁说了什么之类的。

where to buy like the best turntable cartridges than I who said what to who kind of

我觉得是这样。

think so.

而且我也深受《厨房机密》的启发，这本书大家都很熟悉。

And I think that I was also really inspired by Kitchen Confidential, which everybody knows.

这是一本非常了不起的书。

It's, you know, such an incredible book.

安东尼·波登，他写作的方式、思维的敏捷，以及他描写纽约夜晚某个行业时的激情。

Anthony Bourdain, just the way he writes and the speed at wit and the excitement of which he writes about New York at night in a certain profession.

但我记得读到第二章时，突然间我就置身于他的生活，接着突然有一整章都在讲刀具。

But I remember getting to chapter two, and it was like suddenly I'm in his life, and then suddenly there's a whole chapter about knives.

我当时想，我才不在乎什么刀具呢。

And I'm like, I don't give a fuck about knives.

但到了那一章结尾，你知道吗？我确实在意了。

But I did at the end of that chapter, you know?

就像我说的，你听好了。

Like, I was like, so I think listen.

好吧。

Okay.

也许唱机唱针不像刀具那样是普遍需求，但我心想，如果我能以同样的热情来写这个话题，也许这种工艺也有它的位置，因为我当然希望人们喜欢这本书，但我想，如果连其他DJ都打动不了，那我就真的失败了。

Maybe turntable stylists are not quite as universal needs as knives are, but I thought if I can write about that with the same passion, that maybe there's a place also for the craft, because I wanted of course, I want people to like the book, but I was like, if I don't get the DJs first, like the other DJs, then I've really failed.

因为可能也从来没人写过这么硬核的DJ书籍，所以把这些内容放进去很重要。

Like, because nobody maybe has written that super nerdy DJ book either, so it was important to have that stuff in.

我觉得这本书里有一个非常关键的时刻，那就是你经历了多年的辛勤付出，同时也意味着你掌握了这项技艺。

There's this kind of this really defining moment, I feel like, in the book where you've just got all these years of hard graft, and then it's also about you mastering your craft.

我认为这一点非常深刻，值得深入描绘成为一位DJ的真正内涵，不只是派对表面的部分，还包括那些更重要的技术细节。

And I think that's a very, very poignant thing to also get into the detailing of what it is to to be a DJ, not just about the part, but maybe the more technical things as well that are that are important.

而且，经过很多年之后，你逐渐在圈子里站稳了脚跟，真正成为了一名DJ。

And, you know, I feel like after after many years, you kind of you hold you hold your own in the as as a DJ in the scene.

这时候，你面前出现了一条分岔路。

And it's like, there's like this fork in the road.

你要么继续走安全的路，享受已有的成功，继续做你热爱的DJ工作；要么冒险一搏，做一件可能瞬间毁掉你职业生涯的事，也可能一举成功，让你一飞冲天。

It's either you kinda stay on the safe ground and enjoy the success and, you know, you you keep DJing and you're doing that thing that you love or you kinda take this big risk and you and you do something that will either kill your career in that moment or you pull it off and it sends you stratospheric.

书中有一段正是讲了这个时刻，因为你当时在演出中做出了这样的冒险。

And there's this this part in the book because you take take this risk when you're performing.

哦，是在Cheetah俱乐部的周一晚上，Blinna's。

Oh, at Blinna's Club at Cheetah on a Monday.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我非常喜欢这一点。

I love I love this.

好的。

Okay.

我喜欢这一部分。

I love this part.

你能为我朗读一下书中的这段话吗

Would you would you please read that passage in the book for

吗？

us?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

到这个时候，我已经有点儿了。

At this point, I've kind of yeah.

我做DJ已经五六年了，你知道的，现在我终于在这个我一直想站稳脚跟的圈子里混出了名堂。

I have I've been DJing for five, six years, you know, and now I've made my way up this scene that I've been trying to, like, you know, get a foothold in.

我一直都在演奏我们 downtown 都在放的音乐，比如放克、灵魂乐、嘻哈和雷鬼。

And I've been playing, you know, what we all played downtown, which was funk, soul, hip hop, reggae.

有一晚，我去了一家叫 Spybar 的俱乐部，那是第一个真正时尚的高端酒吧。

And then one night, I went to this club called Spybar, which was like the first sort of ultra trendy lounge.

你甚至可以说，它是纽约市走向终结的开端，那种地方——我记得曾看到门卫King把唐纳德·特朗普拒之门外。

You could argue it was the best place ever at the beginning of the end for New York City, like the kind of place where it'd be like I mean, I remember seeing King at the door turn away Donald Trump.

像你这样的人，肯定能进去。

Like, you would have got in.

完全没问题。

No problem.

但你知道吗，那里有莱奥·凯特·莫斯在唱歌，巨大的吊灯，其实那个房间之所以这么特别，是因为它原本是环卫卡车的停车场。

But it was like, you know, Leo Kate Moss is singing this huge, like, chandeliers in this big actually, the reason that the room was so crazy that the dimensions of it was because it was a former parking depot for sanitation trucks.

所以你们所有人，其实是在一个垃圾场里狂欢。

So you're like, you guys are all partying in a garbage dump.

你知道的。

You know?

但这就是纽约的另一点。

But that was the other thing about New York.

你可能会想，索霍区怎么会有三层楼高的天花板？

You're like, how are these triple height ceilings in the middle of Soho?

但好吧。

But okay.

所以，我只是稍微交代一下背景。

So so this is this is this little just to give a little context.

有一天晚上，我在Spybar，那位DJ放了一首AC/DC的《Back in Black》，这首歌我自从13岁以后就没再想过。

So I'm at Spybar one night, and one night, the DJ threw on ACDC's Back in Black, a song I hadn't thought about since I was 13.

但现在听到它，我彻底震惊了。

But hearing it now, I was floored.

音质清晰无比，吉他像电锯一样穿透整个房间，更惊人的是，它让那些醉醺醺的白人疯狂跳舞，踩在家具上，仿佛在重演罗马帝国的覆灭。

The sonic clarity, the guitar slicing through the room like a chainsaw, and what was more, it made all these inebriated white people lose their minds dancing on furniture like they were reenacting the fall of Rome.

Spy酒吧没有歌舞表演执照，而那时在朱利安尼试图关闭场所的环境下，跳舞是需要这种执照的。

Spy didn't have a cabaret license, which is what you needed to dance in the in that time where Giuliani would try and shut you down.

但这并没有阻止任何人。

But that didn't stop anyone.

沙发、椅子、桌子，没有任何东西是不能跳的。

Couches, chairs, tables, nothing was off limits.

最终，老板凯利聘请了一位古董专家，24小时在地下室修复损坏，就像战场上的医护兵救治丝绒材质的‘伤员’一样。

Eventually, Kelly, the owner, hired an antique specialist to work around the clock in the basement fixing the damage like a battlefield medic patching up velvet casualties.

当我看着这疯狂的场景时，一个念头悄然浮现。

As I watched this wild scene, a thought crept in.

我在想，我能不能把这首歌放给我自己的人群听。

I wonder if I could play this for my crowd.

这个想法很快变成了：我必须在周一的Cheetah俱乐部播放这首歌。

It quickly turned into, I have to play this on Monday at Cheetah.

这个想法荒谬至极。

The idea was absurd.

近乎职业自杀的行为。

Borderline career suicidal.

在Cheetah播放《Back in Black》，那是东海岸最火爆的嘻哈派对。

Back in Black at Cheetah, the hottest hip hop party on the East Coast.

没有人，没人会在他们的混音中播放类似的东西，但种子已经播下。

No one, no one played anything like it remotely in their sets, but the seed had been planted.

于是，我花了接下来一周的时间练习、沉迷、设计出一套最稳妥的表演方案，以便在不毁掉职业生涯的前提下播放它。

So I spent the rest of the week practicing, obsessing, devising the most bulletproof routine to drop it without ending my career.

我们走着瞧。

We'll see.

那天晚上，我带着紧张的能量给Cheetah写了信。

I wrote to Cheetah that night charged with nervous energy.

这是周一晚上的巅峰时刻。

This was the pinnacle of Monday nights.

珍妮特·杰克逊、王子、Missy都来了。

Janet Jackson, Prince, Missy, they all rolled up.

Cheetah的挑战不仅仅是观众。

Cheetah's challenge wasn't just the crowd.

而是设备设置。

It was the setup.

这家俱乐部有一台URI十六二十混音器，是最早生产的DJ混音器之一。

The club had a URI sixteen twenty mixer, one of the first DJ mixers ever made.

它甚至早于嘻哈音乐的出现，早在Flash研发出第一个擦碟技巧之前就已存在。

It predated hip hop entirely before Flash even workshopped his first scratch.

这是一种旋转式混音器，每个声道都有大圆旋钮，但没有交叉淡入淡出控制器。

A rotary mixer, it had big round knobs for each channel, but no crossfader.

这对嘻哈DJ来说简直是噩梦。

A nightmare for hip hop DJs.

想象你自己站在炉子前，每只手都控制着一个旋钮来调节火焰。

Picture yourself at a stove, each hand on a knob controlling a flame.

现在想象一边升高一个火焰，一边降低另一个火焰，同时还要保持整体温度完全不变。

Now imagine raising one flame while lowering the other, having to keep the overall temperature exactly the same.

这就是在Yuri上打碟的感觉。

That's what playing on the Yuri feels like.

当你引入一首新歌时，必须完美同步地淡出当前歌曲，以保持音量和氛围的恒定。

When bringing in a new record, you must fade out the current one in perfect sync to maintain constant volume and vibe.

同时，你的双手还要迅速调整音高滑块，以保持节奏同步，这是一场不容有失的精细平衡。

At the same time, your hands are darting to the pitch slider to keep the tempos locked in, a delicate balancing act that leaves no room for error.

不过，Urie的困难迫使我去专注精准的过渡，而那个晚上，我进入了状态。

The Urie force force forced me to focus on tight blends, though, and that night, I was in a zone.

就连那些平时板着脸站在舞池边等待说唱的顶级小孩们，也放下了他们的冷漠。

Even the supreme kids who usually stood sullen on the dance floor waiting for rap broke their standoff.

经典曲目让位于老派音乐，接着是新潮作品，当舞池最后一点空地也被填满时，随着能量的攀升，我的胸口也愈发沉重。

Classics gave way to old school and then the new shit As the last available inches of the dance floor filled up, but as the energy built, so did the weight in my chest.

就是现在。

This is it.

这是我这一周来一直在准备的时刻，是时候执行我的作战计划了。

It's the thing I've been preparing for all week, time to put my battle plan into motion.

我用Puff的《It's All About the Benjamins》、Little Kim和Biggie的版本发起了进攻。

I launched the assault with it's all about the Benjamins by Puff the Locks, Little Kim and Biggie.

当Barry White那令人不安的单音吉他 riff 缓缓响起，慢节奏的迪斯科踩镲点燃了全场观众。

The room erupted as Barry White's ominous one note guitar riffed and slowed down disco hi hats ignited the crowd.

前排阵地已稳固。

The front line was secure.

士气高涨。

Morale was high.

当说唱组合交替献唱时，我正准备下一招——《It's All About the Benjamins》的 Shock Collar 混音版，这原本是个俗气的硬摇滚混音，却因Dave Grohl雷鸣般的鼓点而重获新生。

As the locks trade verses, I prepare my next move, all about the Benjamins, the shock collar remix, a corny hard rock remix redone redeemed only by Dave Grohl's thundering drums.

我将它与耳机里当前的节拍对齐，Little Kim的说唱叠加在刺耳的电子化金属吉他之上，恐慌悄然袭来。

I aligned it with the current beat in my headphones, little Kim's rapping over tinny processed metal guitars, and panic crept in.

这个动作看似鲁莽，但撤退已无可能。

This maneuver feels reckless, but retreat was not an option.

我双手精准一甩，在Biggie的段落开头完成了切换，无缝接入摇滚混音版。

With a calculated flick of both wrists, I executed the switch to the rock remix at the top of Biggie's verse.

奇迹般地，人群依然沉浸其中，齐声跟唱。

Miraculously, the crowd remained locked in, rapping along in unison.

无论他们是否察觉到节奏的变化，阵线依然稳固，我挺过了这一关，准备迎接下一阶段。

Whether they noticed the beat change or not, the line held, I survived to fight the next phase.

我的手悬在AC/DC上方。

My hand hovered over ACDC.

疑虑悄然滋生。

Doubt crept in.

这是天才之举，还是疯狂之举？

Is this brilliance or madness?

我把唱片放到唱机上，倒回几遍以确保位置准确。

I put the record on the turntable, running it back a few times to ensure position.

节奏完全同步。

The tempos were locked.

Biggie的段落正逼近尾声。

Biggie barreled toward the end of his verse.

直到我彻底释放。

Squeeze off till I'm empty.

别诱惑我。

Don't tempt me.

我只会送你去地狱。

Only to hell, I'll send thee.

一切都为了本杰明们。

All about the Benjies.

然后，我奏出了摇滚史上最伟大的riff。

And then I struck the greatest riff in the history of rock and roll.

整个房间炸开了。

The room detonated.

我从未听过如此精准的声音从这些音箱中爆发。

Never heard a more precise sound blasted through these speakers.

三和弦怪物般的前奏点燃了俱乐部的每一个角落。

The three chord monster intro electrified every corner of the club.

在那一瞬间，地板上几百张脸上闪过困惑的表情，但节奏如此强烈、如此不容置疑，人们别无选择，只能随它律动。

For a split second, puzzled looks flashed across a couple of 100 faces on the floor, but the groove was so heavy, so undeniable there was no chance but to go with it.

当这段riff再次循环回来时，困惑已悄然化为愉悦。

By the time the riff circled back, confusion had melted into the light.

一个人的表情就说明了一切。

One guy's face said it all.

老兄，我简直不敢相信这家伙在弹这种东西，而我居然真的沉迷其中。

Yo, I can't believe dude is playing this shit and I'm actually fucking with it.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

我能感受到肾上腺素在涌动，因为

I I can like I can feel the adrenaline as

当我读它的时候。

as I'm reading it.

它真的给了我很多鸡皮疙瘩。

Like, it really it it it gave me such chills.

我不知道。

It's I don't know.

这简直是一次范式转变。

It's such a, like, a paradigm shift.

就像迪伦转向电音一样。

It's almost like Dylan going electric

是的。

Yeah.

或者类似的东西。

Or something.

哇。

Wow.

没关系。

That's okay.

当然。

For sure.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

让我们从二十世纪九十年代的纽约直接跳到今天，因为你仍然在纽约。

Let's let's fast forward from the nineteen nineties New York City to today because you're you're still in New York.

你依然身处核心，但情况现在已经大不相同了。

You're firmly at the heart of it, but things are quite different now.

是的。

Yeah.

你是个有家室的人了。

You're a family man.

是的

Yep.

小孩子并不会为夜生活者的生活习惯做出任何妥协。

And small children don't really make any any compromises for the lifestyle habits of night people.

没错。

No.

你的女儿们还很小。

And your girls are very young.

我在想，让她们知道并理解你热爱自己的工作对你来说有多重要？她们能以某种方式与你分享这份热爱吗？

And I was wondering how important is it to you that they know and understand that you love what you do, and and are they able to share this with you somehow?

这挺有趣的，因为当我写完这本书时，书中唯一脱离九十年代的部分就是后记，那是我和当时18岁的长女露西一起散步的一天，她被我用婴儿背带绑在身上，我们漫步在苏豪区，看着那些曾经是俱乐部的建筑，还有各种各样的地方——就像我平时在苏豪区散步时经常遇到的情景。

It's it's funny because when I when I ended this book and the the only time that the book comes out of the nineties is just the epilogue, and it's and it's it's a day with, at the time, my our oldest daughter, Ruthie, who was 18, strapped to me in a baby Bjorn while I'm walking around Soho and sort of, you know, seeing all these buildings that, you know, Froyos that were a club and whatever the hell it is, and and seeing, like, what happens to me all the time when I walk around Soho.

比如，有人在人行横道上从我身边走过，我认出他们，但已经二十五年没见了。

Like, someone will pass me on a on a crosswalk, and I know that I know them, but I haven't seen them in twenty five years.

我特别想上前打个招呼。

And, like, I'm so ready to say hi.

我就想，等等。

And I'm like, wait.

那只是我每晚在舞池里见过的某个陌生人吗？

Is that just somebody that was a stranger that I saw in the dance for every night?

我真的认识这个人吗？

Do I even know this person?

是那个前台接待吗？

Was it the co check?

是那个毒贩吗？

Was it the drug dealer?

你知道，你就这样让这些人从你身边溜走，心里想着，你可能错过了什么机会。

Like, you know, and you just kinda let this put people past it, like, thinking, like, what cards what what maybe you left on the table.

但当我写这本书时，我在后记里提到了这一点，我想，因为我后来渐渐淡出了DJ生涯，我觉得露西大概永远也看不到我最巅峰的时刻，或者看不到我做着自己热爱的事情的时光，因为那个时代之所以如此美好，就在于没人有手机。

But, yeah, when I when I wrote it and I kinda mentioned it in in the in the epilogue, like, I did think, because I'd sort of come off DJing a bit, and I thought that, you know, Ruthie probably would never see me at my prime or when I was doing the thing that I love because one of the things about this era that made it so great was that no one had phones.

你知道吗？

You know?

那时没有监控的存在。

There's the absence of surveillance.

那种感觉就是你完全沉浸在当下，但另一方面，我没有任何酷炫的视频可以展示。

It was this feeling of you're in the moment, but, you know, the other side of that is that I have no cool videos to show.

比如，看看我爸跟着Busta Rhymes劲舞的样子，之类的。

Like, look at dad, rocking it with Busta Rhymes, like, or whatever.

当我写完这本书时，发生了一件有趣的事。

Then something funny happened when I finished this book.

我的一个朋友读了它，他说：我真的喜欢这本书。

A friend of mine read it, and he was like, you know, I really like the book.

听起来你真的很想念再和Vinyl一起打碟的感觉。

It sounds like you really just missed TJing with Vinyl again.

我觉得你他妈的应该回去继续做。

I think you should fucking go back to it.

我当时想：天啊。

And I was like, oh, man.

得重新整理那些唱片，但他是个聪明人，我就想，算了，我试试吧。

Having to refine all those records and but he's a smart guy, and I was just like, you know, I'll try it.

所以我又重新开始DJ，回到俱乐部打唱片。

So I really got back into DJing and playing around clubs again, just playing vinyl.

前几天我早上十点就去表演了，因为我参加了Diplo的Run Club活动。

So I played at 10AM the other day because I did something for Diplo's Run Club.

是的。

Yeah.

这是Ruthie第一次来看我打碟，还挺有意思的。

So it was the first time Ruthie ever came and saw me DJ, and it was kind of fun.

我觉得她只是融入其中了。

Think she's just part of it.

这到底怎么回事？

It's like, what the hell is going on?

为什么老爸在打外套？

Why is daddy playing jackets?

人们穿着

People in

运动服，跳舞唱歌，但这太酷了。

running gear, dancing and singing, but that's so cool.

她也喜欢唱片。

She loves she loves records too.

我不太想把我的所有东西都传给她，或者传给我们的小儿子，但她看到我放唱片时的眼神，她有自己的小费雪价格唱片机，就只是像那样，一玩就是几个小时，放《La Bamba》、Sister Nancy的《Bom Bom》、Johnny Mitchell，或者随便什么歌。

Like, I so don't wanna put all my shit on her and pass it to her or to our youngest, but there's something that she's seen the way I look at records when I put it on, and she's like she has her little Fisher Price record player, and she just like, says that, like, just like for hours playing like La Bamba or Bom Bom by Sister Nancy or Johnny Mitchell or or, like, you know, whatever.

所以，我真的很喜欢，我的意思是，是的，我不想强迫她走DJ这条路，但我真的很高兴她这么热爱。

So it's it's I love I mean, yeah, I don't wanna force her into a career as a TJ, but I do love that she loves it so much.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

能够分享这些时刻真是太美好了。

It's beautiful to be able to share those those moments.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这使它更加有意义。

It's I think it makes it even more meaningful.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

我最喜欢的部分是尾声，因为它感觉非常个人化。

It's kinda my favorite part is the epilogue because it feels so personal.

现在它依然如此鲜活。

It's so fresh to now.

但没错。

But yeah.

好的。

Alright.

嗯，我认为这是个很好的收尾。

Well, I think that's a great place to finish.

你绝对是那种酷爸典范。

You definitely have the cool dad credentials.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

马克，非常感谢你加入我们。

Mark, thank you so much for joining us.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这真是

It's been

和你聊这场对话真是太有趣了。

it's been so much fun to to have this conversation with you.

而且你知道吗，每当马克在唱歌时，我就感觉自己像只落汤鸡，因为我总是在又跳又唱又喊，妆都快花得满脸都是了。

And, you know, when Mark's CJ ing, I feel like I just look like a drowned rat because I'm always just, like, dancing and and singing and screaming, and all my makeup's, like, running down my face.

所以相信我，他真的很会办派对。

And so trust me, he really knows how to how to throw a party.

而且，马克，读《夜之人》是一种享受，我知道你确实是最会办派对的人，但你也写了一本了不起的书。

And it's a joy, Mark, to read Night People and to know that, yes, you throw the best parties, but you also write an amazing book

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

也谢谢你。

As well.

非常感谢你。

Thank you so much.

我非常期待你接下来的任何计划。

And I can't wait for whatever you choose to do next.

非常感谢你邀请我来这里，也感谢大家今晚的参与。

So so grateful for you putting me on here, and thank you for everybody for being here this evening.

太棒了。

Amazing.

感谢在场的每一位，以及在家收听的朋友们。

Thank you to everyone here and for those that are listening at home.

你们一定要访问 service95.com 和我们的所有社交媒体，因为我们为你们准备了丰富的惊喜。

You really have to visit service95.com and all our socials because we have lots of treats in store for you.

你们可以在 Service ninety five 上找到马克的播放列表和阅读清单，以及马克和他的朋友们专属于该平台的特别社交媒体内容。

You'll find Mark's playlist and reading list as well as some very special social content from Mark and his friends exclusive to Service ninety five.

你可以免费订阅 Service ninety five 读书会通讯，了解我下个月的推荐读物。

You can sign up for free to the Service ninety five Book Club newsletter to hear about my next monthly read.

如果你想获得更多书籍推荐和作者访谈，请在 Instagram 上关注我们：Service ninety five Book Club。

And if you want more book recommendations and author interviews, follow us on Instagram at Service ninety five Book Club.

马克，真的非常非常非常感谢你。

Mark, thank you so, so, so much.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

谢谢。

Thanks

谢谢收听。

for listening.

除了我的每月新书推荐，我还会分享一些往期的对话，这些是我过去几年与世界顶尖作家最喜爱的访谈。

Along with my new monthly reads, I'll also be sharing a conversation from the archive, some of my favorite chats with the world's best writers over the past couple of years.

相信我。

Trust me.

你一定不想错过它们。

You won't wanna miss them.

请务必关注 Service ninety five Book Club 播客，以免错过任何一集。

Make sure you're following the Service ninety five Book Club podcast so you never miss an episode.

如果你喜欢这一期，为什么不给我们留个评价呢？

And if you love this one, why not leave us a review?

非常感谢你的收听，我们下次再见。

Thanks so much for listening, and see you next time.