用蘑菇戒掉恶习

NPR的支持及以下信息来自威廉和弗洛拉·休利特基金会，该基金会投资于富有创造力的思考者和问题解决者，帮助人们、社区和地球繁荣发展。

Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish.

更多信息请访问hewlett.org。

More information is available at hewlett.org.

您正在收听NPR的短波节目。

You're listening to shortwave from NPR.

大家好。

Hey, everybody.

欢迎收听Shortwave的第一期节目，这是NPR全新每日科学播客。

Welcome to the first episode of shortwave, NPR's new daily science podcast.

我是您的主持人，马迪·萨菲亚。

I'm your host, Maddie Safia.

很高兴认识你。

Nice to meet you.

今天，我想向你们介绍科琳·陈·麦克劳林。

And today, I wanna introduce you to Coreen Chen McLaughlin.

我是在大学一年级暑假后开始吸烟的。

I started smoking the summer of after my freshman year in college.

科琳是巴尔的摩一位半退休的社会工作者。

Corinne's a semiretired social worker in Baltimore.

你知道，那是1971年。

You know, this is 1971.

那时候人人都吸烟。

Everyone smoked.

她吸了四十多年烟，试过很多次戒烟，大概二三十次，但每次都复吸了。

She smoked for over forty years, and she's tried to quit a lot, like 20 or 30 times, but she's always gone back.

它是我的朋友。

It's my friend.

它是我最老、最亲密的朋友之一。

It's one of my oldest, dearest friends.

你知道，它一直陪伴着我。

You know, it it it was there for me.

如果没有这段关系，真的非常非常可怕。

And to not have that relationship was very, very scary.

然后她听说了一个治疗尼古丁成瘾的临床试验，使用的是一种有点不寻常的方法。

Then she heard about this clinical trial to treat nicotine addiction with something a little unusual.

你以前有没有为了好玩而吃过迷幻蘑菇？

Had you ever done mushrooms before in your life, like like, for fun?

没有。

No.

没有。

Mm-mm.

没有。

Mm-mm.

没有。

Nope.

嗯，她现在试过了。

Well, she's done them now.

嗯，不是那种真正的魔法蘑菇，而是一种含有裸盖菇素的小药片，就是蘑菇里让人产生幻觉的成分。

Well, not like actual magic mushrooms, but a little pill of psilocybin, the thing in shrooms that makes you trip.

今天在节目中，我们聊聊魔法蘑菇。

Today on the show, magic mushrooms.

它们不只是和朋友一起玩乐时用的东西。

They're not just for getting weird with your friends.

对一些人来说，这可能是一种改变人生的疗法。

For some people, it could be a life altering therapy.

这条信息来自Wise，一款专为全球使用资金的国际人士设计的应用。

This message comes from Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe.

你只需轻点几下，就可以发送、消费和接收多达40种货币。

You can send, spend, and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps.

聪明一点。

Be smart.

使用Wise。

Get Wise.

立即下载Wise应用或访问wise.com。

Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com.

条款和条件适用。

Ts and Cs apply.

本节目及以下广告由威廉和弗洛拉·休利特基金会支持，该基金会致力于投资富有创造力的思想者和问题解决者，帮助人们、社区和地球繁荣发展。

Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish.

更多信息请访问hewlett.org。

More information is available at hewlett.org.

好的。

Okay.

所以，科琳并不是简单地出现就服用了这颗裸盖菇素药片。

So Corine didn't just, like, show up and take this psilocybin pill.

作为试验的一部分，她花了数周时间与研究人员做准备，接受各种测试，并花了无数小时探讨她为何吸烟。

As part of the trial, she spent weeks prepping with researchers, undergoing tests, and hours and hours of talking about why she smoked.

然后，正式开始实验。

And then it was game time.

我们来谈谈那天吧。

Let's talk about the big day.

你进去之前紧张吗？

Were you were you nervous before you went in?

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

当然。

Definitely.

是的。

Yes.

非常紧张。

Very nervous.

嗯，倒不至于紧张到腿软。

Well, wouldn't say, like, in my boots nervous.

你知道，我觉得很安全。

You know, I felt safe.

我觉得，即使我出现了很糟糕的反应，周围也有很多人。

I felt that even if I had a bad, bad reaction, there are lots of people around me.

我知道，那些人我大多都认识，因为我已经去那里好几个月了。

I knew, you know, most of the people just because I've been going there for months.

所以我不觉得他们会让我出事。

So I didn't feel like they would let anything happen to me.

但我还是紧张，因为我完全不知道会发生什么。

But I was nervous just because I didn't know what to expect.

当然。

Sure.

当然。

Sure.

好的。

Okay.

所以给我讲讲那天的情况吧。

So take me through that day a little bit.

你到达诊所时发生了什么？

What happens when you got to the clinic?

我想我是在八点四十五分左右服下的药片。

Well, I took the pill about quarter to nine, I think.

大约半小时到四十分钟后， things 开始变得飘忽起来。

And then about half hour to forty minutes, things started floating.

你知道的，我说， things 开始看起来有点奇怪。

You know, and I said, things are starting to look kind of strange.

于是我在那时闭上了眼睛，之后几乎一直闭着眼，直到整个过程结束。

So I closed my eyes at that point, and I pretty much kept my eyes closed until the very end.

但最让我难忘的，甚至现在说起这件事我都会紧张，是整个经历有多么可怕。

But the biggest part, and I even get nervous when I talk about it now, is how scary the whole experience was.

我感受到的最强烈的情绪就是恐惧。

The overwhelming feeling I had was fear.

我看到了怪物。

I saw monsters.

我看到了外星人。

I saw aliens.

我看到巨大的灰色蓬松云朵从天花板不断下沉，我以为自己会窒息。

I had these big, gray, puffy clouds that kept sinking in from the ceiling, and I thought I was gonna suffocate.

我大部分时间都在哭泣、抽泣，几乎没怎么说话，因为显然每个人经历的都是发生在脑海里的事。

And I spent most of my time crying, sobbing, not talking a whole lot because apparently what everyone goes through is pretty much in your head.

所以在你经历这段旅程时，你没有和临床医生谈论香烟吗？

So you weren't talking about cigarettes with the clinicians while you were in this trip?

没有。

No.

完全没谈。

Not at all.

没有。

Uh-uh.

这太有趣了。

That's so interesting.

没有。

Nope.

很多人问我这个问题，我就说，你知道的，没有。

And and lots of people ask me that, and I was like, you know, no.

没有。

Nope.

它们只是为我而存在的。

They just they were there just for me.

你当时有些什么想法？

What were some of the thoughts?

我的意思是，你说你非常害怕，但你也在整理一些事情吗？

I mean, you said you were really afraid, but were you also processing things?

你有没有什么顿悟？

Were you, like, having revelations?

你当时的心理状态是怎样的？

What was what was the your mind space there?

我当时所做的，就是处理我内心的感受，以便放下那两件我想要放下的事。

So all I was doing is processing the feelings that I had in order to let go of the two things I was trying to let go.

一件是戒烟，另一件是辞去我做了二十三年的工作。

One was to quit smoking, and one was to stop working at a job I've had for twenty three years.

当我醒来时，感觉就像所有情绪都已经被释放了。

And when I woke up, it was like I was processed out.

我精疲力尽，但再也不害怕了。

I was exhausted, and I wasn't scared anymore.

如果你和我一样，你可能会想知道，怪物、外星人和可怕的云朵是怎么帮人戒烟的？

If you're like me, you're wondering how do monsters and aliens and scary clouds help you stop smoking?

于是我们去了约翰斯·霍普金斯大学，去了解背后的科学原理。

So we went to Johns Hopkins University to learn more about the science.

哦。

Oh.

那是其中之一。

That's one.

真好。

That's nice.

对。

Yes.

我见到了马修·约翰逊。

I met up with Matthew Johnson.

他是领导科琳研究的实验心理学家。

He's the experimental psychologist who led Corinne's study.

他带我去了一个体验室。

He brought me into one of the trip rooms.

有人把它描述为一个高档的瑜伽工作室。

It's been described as a posh yoga studio.

太好了。

Yay.

房间里有一张大而舒适的沙发，还有柔和的灯光。

There's this big comfy couch for the patient, some nice soft lighting.

老实说，那里看起来是个很好的幻觉体验场所。

Honestly, it seemed like a good place to trip.

希望别太老套，别太 psychedelic。

Hopefully nothing is too cliche psychedelic.

我们尽量避免那样，但我们确实有富有感染力的艺术品。

We try to avoid that, but we do have evocative art.

是的。

Yeah.

那只鸟在干什么？

What's that bird doing?

我不清楚那只鸟。

I don't know about that bird.

我的意思是，服下三十毫克裸盖菇素后，它可能看起来不一样。

I mean, it might look different after thirty milligrams of psilocybin.

从生物学角度来说，这对普通人来说是安全的剂量。

Biologically, that's a safe dose for the average person.

但要明确的是，三十毫克的裸盖菇素是一剂很大的剂量。

But to be clear, thirty milligrams is a lot of psilocybin.

这被称为英雄剂量。

This has been called a heroic dose.

马特明确表示，人们不应该在家尝试这种做法。

Matt made it very clear that people should not try this at home.

那么，从科学角度来说，科琳服用裸盖菇素后，她的大脑内部发生了什么？

So, like, scientifically, what is going on inside Corine's brain after she took the dose of psilocybin?

我们知道，裸盖菇素会让大脑以一种完全不同的方式与自身对话。

We know that psilocybin causes the brain to essentially talk with itself in a very different way.

他们仍在研究中，但到目前为止，似乎那些平时不互相交流的大脑区域开始更多地互动，而原本经常交流的区域则交流减少了。

They're still figuring it out, but so far it seems like parts of the brain that don't normally communicate to each other seem to communicate more, and parts of the brain that normally do talk to each other talk less.

马特形容说，这就像你住在一座城市里，不再跟邻居聊天，反而开始跟城市另一端平时从不联系的人交谈。

Matt described it kind of like, if you're living in a city, you stop talking to your neighbors, and you start talking to people way across town that you normally don't talk to.

这可能会带来看待自我的新方式，以不同的角度思考世界，并产生富有洞察力的体验。

And that can lead to novel ways of looking at oneself, thinking about the world in a different way, having insightful experiences.

马特说，裸盖菇素可以帮助人们重新审视自己以及生活中真正重要的东西。

Matt says psilocybin can help people kind of reframe the way they think about themselves and what's really important in their lives.

因此，人们本质上被困在一种非常特定且不理想的方式中看待自己。

So people are essentially stuck thinking about themselves in a very particular and suboptimal way.

比如，我已经尝试戒烟几十次了。

Like, I've tried to quit smoking dozens of times.

我就是个烟民。

I'm just a smoker.

世界本来就是这样。

That's just the way the world is.

因此，人们能更清楚地看到大局，嗯。

So there's this greater ability to see kind of the big picture Mhmm.

并且不被眼前的诱惑所吞噬。

And to not be kinda sucked in to momentary temptations.

这正是科琳在服药后数小时内经历的情况。

That's kind of how it worked for Corinne, like, within hours after her trip.

我们出去吃晚饭，但我其实不饿。

We went out to dinner, and I wasn't really hungry.

我只是想回家。

I just wanna go home.

我丈夫说：我能抽根烟吗？

And my husband's like, can I have a cigarette?

我说：当然可以。

And I said, sure.

我对自己说：那就抽一口吧。

And I said to myself, well, let me just take a puff.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为吸烟者都会这样对自己说。

Because smokers say this to themselves.

我只是抽一口。

I would just take a puff.

我的手就是不让我碰那支香烟。

And my hand would not let me touch that cigarette.

直到今天，如果你给我一百万美元让我用手碰香烟，我也做不到。

To this day, if you pay me a million dollars to touch a cigarette with my hand, I cannot.

哇。

Wow.

我试过。

I've tried.

我的意思是，这太不可思议了。

I mean, that's wild.

四十七年的吸烟史，加上这种疗法，结果你连碰都不能碰。

That's forty seven years of smoking, this therapy, and then you can't even touch them.

你觉得为什么会成功呢，科琳？

Why do you think it it worked, Corine?

我觉得我大脑里的某个开关被关掉了。

I think something in my brain got turned off.

并不可怕。

It's not scary.

并不恶心。

It's not disgusting.

我的意思是，我觉得吸烟并不恶心。

I mean, I don't find cigarette smoking disgusting.

我的意思是，我知道我听起来有点奇怪。

I mean, I know I sound kinda weird.

很多戒烟的人都是这样。

A lot of people, ex smokers do.

但我不是。

I don't.

但不，我几乎没有什么感觉。

But, no, I I have almost neutral feelings.

我只是做不到。

I just can't do it.

自从那次戒烟之旅以来，已经过去了一年半，科琳至今仍保持无烟状态。

It's been a year and a half since trip, and Corrine is still smoke free.

而且她并不是孤例。

And she's not alone.

马特的初步小规模研究结果非常有希望。

Matt's first small study was extremely promising.

因此，他们现在正在进行一项更大规模、更严谨的试验，比较尼古丁贴片与裸盖菇素的效果。

So now they're doing a larger, more rigorous trial comparing the nicotine patch to psilocybin.

目前，研究结果仍在陆续出炉。

And now the results are still coming in.

但现阶段，服用裸盖菇素的人中有一半在一年后成功戒烟。

But right now, half of the people that took psilocybin are smoke free after a year.

这一效果大约是尼古丁贴片的两倍。

And that's about twice as effective as the patch.

这相当令人印象深刻。

And that's pretty impressive.

但有一些事情需要考虑。

But some things to think about.

这种治疗非常昂贵，整个过程需要数月时间。

The treatment is really expensive, and the whole process takes months.

而且，并不是每个人都适合使用裸盖菇素。

Plus, not everybody should use psilocybin.

有些人绝对不应该尝试，因为他们有患精神分裂症的倾向。

Some people should never do these things because they have a predisposition for schizophrenia

是的。

Mhmm.

或者其他精神病性障碍，似乎有充分证据表明，这对有这种倾向的人可能造成伤害。

Or other psychotic illnesses, and it seems pretty convincing that this can harm people that have that predisposition.

还有另一个重要问题，这类研究并不多。

And another important thing, there aren't a ton of these studies.

但资金正在大量涌入致幻剂研究领域。

But money is pouring into psychedelic research.

我已经做了十五年了。

So I've been doing it for fifteen years.

我们约翰霍普金斯大学的项目比那还要早一点。

Our program here at Hopkins has been doing it a little bit longer than that.

但最近几年，突然间，你知道的，我们不再那么孤单了，是的。

But in the last few years, all of a sudden, you know, we're not so lonely Mhmm.

这正是我们一直想要的。

Which is what we've always wanted.

而且不仅仅是研究人员。

And it isn't just researchers.

今年，奥克兰和丹佛已将迷幻蘑菇非刑事化，俄勒冈州目前也有类似的举措。

This year, Oakland and Denver decriminalized magic mushrooms, and there are similar efforts right now in Oregon.

你认为为什么普通民众愿意再给迷幻药物一次机会呢？

Why do you think, like, everyday people are willing to give psychedelics kind of another shot?

有很多原因。

A lot of reasons.

我认为，在心理健康治疗方面的大背景是，我们正身处阿片类药物危机和自杀危机之中，而这显然源于抑郁症。

I think a part of the backdrop in terms of the treatment of mental health is that we're in the middle of an opioid crisis and a suicide crisis, you know, which is obviously resulting from depression.

因此，抑郁和成瘾是我们社会的主要死因，而且情况并没有好转，反而在恶化。

So depression and addiction are major causes of death in our society and it's not getting better, it's getting worse.

所以我认为，社会上越来越普遍地认识到，我们需要更具创造性，不能因为一些武断的关联就轻易否定某些事物。

So I think there's a broader societal recognition that we need to be creative and not dismiss things because of arbitrary associations.

这是NPR短波节目。

This has been NPR Shortwave.

我是马迪·萨菲亚。

I'm Maddie Safia.

明天见。

See you tomorrow.

NPR及以下信息的支持来自威廉和弗洛拉·休利特基金会，该基金会致力于投资富有创造力的思想者和问题解决者，帮助人们、社区和地球繁荣发展。

Support for NPR and the following message come from the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, investing in creative thinkers and problem solvers who help people, communities, and the planet flourish.

更多信息请访问hewlett.org。

More information is available at hewlett.org.