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你有脑雾。
You have brain fog.
你感到脱节。
You feel disconnected.
很难做决定或感受任何情绪。
It's hard to make decisions or feel anything.
这基本上是你的神经系统选择自我封闭和节能，以便你能撑过去。
This is basically your nervous system choosing to contain and conserve so you can get through.
我认为我们很多人都会感受到并陷入这种功能性冻结反应，尤其是在面对世界上这么多事情的时候。
And I think a lot of us feel and fall into this functional freeze response, especially when we're dealing with so much that's happening in the world.
欢迎回到《心灵女生》的另一期节目。
Welcome back to another episode of Shrink Chicks.
请坐在我们的虚拟治疗沙发上，准备好了解关于你的一切。
Take a seat on our virtual therapy couch and get ready to learn all about, well, you.
我是艾米丽·比里。
I'm Emily Beerly.
我是詹妮弗·查孔。
And I'm Jennifer Chacon.
我们俩都是持证婚姻与家庭治疗师，也是关系专家。
And we're both licensed marriage and family therapists and relationship experts.
我们是The Therapy Group的拥有者和创始人，这是一家全国性的心理治疗机构，拥有像我们一样接地气的治疗师。
We're the owners and founders of The Therapy Group, a nationwide psychotherapy practice with down to earth therapists just like us.
你的疗程即将开始，准备好了解自己、成长自己吧。
Your session is starting, so get ready to know yourself and grow yourself.
嗨，珍。
Hi, Jen.
我在的。
I am.
你怎么样？
How are you?
我很好。
I'm doing great.
我冷得要死。
I'm cold as shit.
你怎么样？
How are you?
我觉得我们聊的全是这个。
I think it's all we talk about.
我早就知道你第一句话准是‘我冷’，因为在东北，抱怨冷简直成了一种荣誉象征。
I fucking knew the first thing you're to say was I'm cold because it's like it's such like a Northeast badge of honor to talk about how cold we winter.
他们简直想让你闭嘴。
Are They're like, shut the fuck up.
搬去别的地方吧。
Move somewhere else.
你难道不觉得你自己也挺烦的吗？
Like, don't you kinda I also find yourself annoying?
我有，而且我不是在说你。
I got and I'm I'm not saying that about you.
我说我烦人，是因为我也只谈这个。
I'm saying I'm annoying because it's all I talk about too.
我确实觉得我自己很烦，而且我觉得抱怨并不会让我更暖和，我得记住这一点。
I do find myself annoying, and I feel like I don't it doesn't make me any warmer to complain, and I need to remember that.
天啊。
But oh my god.
不。
No.
但我在网上看到一句话，说‘我妈妈没把我养出一个放弃的人，但她确实把我养成了一个爱抱怨的人。’
But I read something online that was like, my mama didn't raise a quitter, but she sure raised a complainer.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Definitely.
当然。
Definitely.
那就是我。
That's me.
我不会放弃，但你肯定会听到
I won't quit, but you're gonna fucking hear
你会的，我很抱歉。
you will, and I am sorry.
我道歉。
I apologize.
为了所有
For all of
年的抱怨。
the years of complaining.
我们真的好冷。
Way, we're really cold.
我们冷得要命。
We're cold as shit.
这正好自然地引出了本期节目，我们将讨论冻结反应，因为我们无论是情感上还是身体上都处于冻结状态。
And it's a perfect segue into this episode when we're gonna be talking about the freeze response because we are frozen both emotionally and physically.
明白吗？
Okay?
我不是一个情感冻结的人，但我们会进一步探讨这到底意味着什么。
I'm not an emotionally frozen person, but we'll talk more what that means.
但在深入之前，珍，我们来听一个听众的问题。
But before we get into it, Jen, intro listener question.
当你听到哪首歌时，会立刻想到另一个人——我觉得这个人就是我——为什么？
What song, when you hear it, makes you instantly think of the other person, which I think is me, and why?
我的意思是，你知道的。
I mean, you know it.
我猜我们想到的是同一首歌。
I should assume we have the same one.
是《油脂》吗？
Is it Grease?
是的。
Yes.
我本来想说，我们是不是同时想到同一个名字，但我甚至不知道那首歌的名字。
I was gonna say, like, let's say the name at the same time, but I don't even know the name of that song.
不是。
No.
那是
It was a
天啊。
Dang.
天啊。
Dang.
天啊。
Dang.
而且总是要。
And always be to.
这不对，该死。
Doesn't that doesn't Dang.
那种感觉
That feel
哦，哇。
Oh, wow.
但那不是'20年的情况。
That's not what '20 was, though.
你确定吗？
Are you sure?
是的。
Yeah.
夏天不是十一月吗？
Isn't summer eleven?
不是的。
It was not.
那要快得多，我们当时可是全速前进。
It was way faster than that, and we were belting it.
我跟你说真的。
I'm telling you.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我们来坦诚相告吧。
So let's tell the truth.
彼此那么了解。
Know each other that well.
没有。
No.
我们并没有。
We didn't.
但那真的拉近了我们的关系。
But that really connected us.
我们当时还行。
We were going okay.
我们在读研究生时，去参加我们一位教授的派对，艾米丽开车，我们在那里花了
When we were in grad school, we were going to a one of our professors' parties, and Emily was We driving spent
在教授家待了很长一段时间。
a weird amount of time at our professor's house.
真的吗？
No?
我们确实待了。
We did.
我不确定读研时是不是都会这样。
I don't know if it's something you do in grad school.
很难说。
Hard to say.
但不管怎样，我们去西费城她家参加派对，是艾米丽开车载我去的。
But anyway, we were going to her house for a party in West Philly, Emily drove me.
我们到了房子门口，我敢肯定你和我都想：唉，天哪。
And we get to the house, and I'm sure you and I were like, ugh, god.
我们根本不想进去。
Like, we're not ready to go in.
然后《油脂》这首歌从收音机里放了出来，因为那时候你还在听收音机。
And so Grease comes on the radio because you were still listening to the radio at that point.
《油脂》这首歌一放出来，我们就跟着大声唱起来。
And Grease comes on the radio, and we were belting it out.
而且而且
And And
我们俩一下子就投入进去了。
we just both went for it.
根本没说话。
There was no conversation.
没有。
Nope.
就是同一个时间。
It was the same exact time.
那对我们来说真是一个非常美好的共鸣时刻。
And it was really a beautifully unifying moment for us.
确实如此。
It really was.
但这太搞笑了。
But it's so funny.
不过，显然我们俩都不知道那首歌是什么。
Although, apparently, neither of us know what song it was.
是《油脂》里的一首歌。
It's some Grease song.
这真有趣。
And it's funny.
它说，当你听到哪首歌时，会立刻想到另一个人？
It says, what song when you hear it makes you instantly think of the other person?
但我根本听不到那首歌。
But, like, I never hear that song.
所以，你……
So, you
你知道吗？
know, you know what?
但这真有趣。
But it's funny.
米莉和我最近特别迷《马戏之王》，这部电影的原声带是……
Millie and I were just Millie's really into the greatest showman right now, which the soundtrack from the greatest showman is
太棒了。
amazing.
太惊人了。
Incredible.
我从来没看过。
I've never seen it.
我觉得她，天哪。
I think she oh my god.
你还没看过。
You haven't.
哦，我很好。
Oh, I'm good.
我真得去看看。
I I need to watch it.
你会喜欢的。
You would love it.
你喜欢这种温馨的音乐剧。
You like a nice musical.
我喜欢。
I do.
我爱音乐剧。
I love a musical.
是的。
Yeah.
你会爱上《马戏之王》。
You would love greatest showman.
扎克·埃夫隆、赞达亚，你在开玩笑吗？
Zach Efron, Zendaya, like, are you kidding me?
哦，我
Oh, I
我根本不知道。
didn't even know.
他叫什么来着？
And what's his face?
那个演休·杰克曼的家伙叫什么？
What's his face that's in Hugh Jackman.
对。
Yes.
这简直像极了米歇尔·威廉姆斯，她的嗓音太棒了，而且她在片中美得惊人。
It's like a lot fucking Michelle Williams, her voice is incredible, and she's beautiful in it.
里面有大象呢。
Like, there's elephants.
得了吧，姐妹。
Come on, bitch.
你是在逗我吗？
Like, are you kidding me?
大象。
Elephants.
我决定了，就看这个了。
I'm sold.
是的。
Yeah.
但也许你可以等他到了之后再看，我都提过三万次了，你还是没看。
But maybe you could watch it after he'd after he'd arrived early, which I have brought up 30,000 times, and you still have not watched.
你在开玩笑吧？
Are you kidding me?
我已经看过了。
I have watched.
哦，你看了？
Oh, you have?
我只是还没看。
I just haven't
我只是没看两次而已。
I just haven't watched two times.
我没像你那样没看三次。
I haven't watched three times like you.
我的四次里。
Of my four.
但你是什么？
But you're what?
你对这部剧的欲望没有我这么强烈吗？
You're not as horny as I am for the show?
你为什么
Why are you
不说话了，我可是很渴望的。
not talking I was horny.
而且，我之前跟你说过，当你告诉我你看了第三遍的时候，我就说你可以直接看色情片啊。
But also, I said this to you, you know, when you told me you watched it for the third time that you like, you could just watch porn too.
不行。
No.
只是想让你知道一下。
Just wanted to let you know.
故事情节不一样。
Not the same storyline.
确实不一样。
It's not.
太对了。
That's so true.
不是这样的。
It's not.
我同意。
I agree.
我觉得这很有趣，因为如果男人不想看，你就可以说他们是恐同。
And I think it's fun because if men don't wanna watch it, you can just call them homophobic.
百分之百。
A 100%.
我喜欢这一点。
And I like that.
我喜欢这个想法。
I like that idea.
而且
And
我喜欢这个。
I like that.
我享受这个。
I enjoy that.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
《激烈竞争》简直难以置信。
Heated Rivalry was unbelievable.
我待着，我跟你说过这个。
I I stayed I told you this.
我熬到四点，你说得对。
I stayed up until four You're right.
你，然后我哭得歇斯底里。
You And did the I was hysterically crying.
我的意思是，第五集结尾的时候，你做了这件事。
I mean, at the end of episode five, you did this.
哦，我简直崩溃了。
Oh, I was a mess.
我完全忘了那时候已经凌晨四点了。
Just like, I forgot that it was 4AM.
你知道的。
You know?
我当时想，天啊。
I was like, oh god.
我睡不着。
I can't sleep.
我完全失控了。
I was hysterical.
虽然我熬到凌晨四点，但这根本无所谓，因为实在太棒了。
It didn't matter that I was up until 4AM because it was just the greatest.
这真的太棒了。
It just was amazing.
事情也转变得太快了。
It took a turn so quick too.
以一种美妙的方式。
In a beautiful way.
以一种非常美妙的方式。
In a really beautiful way.
就像这种联系，还有他们彼此表达自我的那种感觉。
Like, in, like, this connection and, like, them expressing themselves to each other.
这真是太美了。
It was just so beautiful.
我知道你对这个不感兴趣，但蒂德·拉索这个夏天也要回归了。
I know that you don't care about this, but also Ted Lasso's coming back this summer.
而且，我只是在想这个，因为据说在第二季开播前，他们会推出一集激烈的对抗剧情，因为大家实在太激动了。
But also, I'm only thinking about that because, you know, apparently, they're gonna drop a heated rivalry episode before season two because people are freaking out so much.
等不及第二季了，因为他们还没开始录制。
It can't wait until season two because they haven't started recording it
还没呢。
yet.
这是个好主意。
It's a good idea.
因为他们没想到会这么火。
Because they didn't think it was gonna get this big.
哇。
Wow.
这步棋真棒。
That's a great move.
真期待那一集。
Can't wait for that.
真期待那一集。
Can't wait for that.
好的。
Okay.
所以这些和冻结反应无关，但我们还是把它拉回来谈一谈。
So none of this has to do with freeze response, but let's just pull it back in.
我看着自己吃掉一场竞争时，完全被欲望冻住了。
I was so frozen in in horniness, watching me eat a rivalry.
那很不错。
That was good.
那真是一句好话。
That was a good one.
但这有点令人困惑，因为那并不是冻结反应的真正含义。
But it's confusing because that's not really what the freeze response is.
所以我们打算做一期节目，分别讲每一种创伤反应，今天这期讲的是冻结反应。
So let's talk about we're gonna do an episode about each of the trauma responses, and today's episode is about the freeze response.
所以我们来聊聊这个。
And so we talk about this.
创伤反应和神经系统创伤反应包括战斗、逃跑、冻结和讨好。
Trauma responses and nervous system trauma responses are fight, flight, freeze, and fawn.
所以今天我们要讲战斗、逃跑、冻结和讨好。
So fight, flight, freeze, and fawn today.
我们要谈谈冻结反应。
We're gonna talk about freeze.
冻结型创伤反应是一种非自愿的、我想反复强调——非自愿的、非自愿的，由交感神经和副交感神经系统引发的反应，发生在面对无法逃避的极端危险时，会导致麻痹、麻木或解离。
And the freeze trauma response is an involuntary, and I wanna keep saying that, involuntary, involuntary, sympathetic, and parasympathetic nervous system reaction to overwhelming danger where fighting or fleeing is impossible, leading to paralysis, numbness, or dissociation.
常见症状包括感到被困住、思维模糊、社交退缩以及高度功能性的回避，可以通过重建安全感、运用接地技巧和躯体运动来应对。
Common symptoms include feeling stuck, mental fog, social withdrawal, and high functional avoidance, and it is managed by reestablishing safety using grinding techniques and somatic movement.
我们稍后会更详细地讨论这一点。
We're gonna talk about that more.
但我之所以不断强调这是非自愿的，是因为它对于性侵幸存者和受害者来说是最常见的创伤反应之一。
But the reason I want to continuously say it's involuntary is because it is one of the most common trauma responses for sexual assault survivors and victims.
当你处于无法脱身的情境时，你的身体会自动冻结。
When you are in a situation where you cannot get out, your body will freeze.
这是我们的身体被训练去做的。
It is what our bodies are trained to do.
但人们会问，为什么呢？
And people will say, why, though?
你一直都在讲肾上腺素、逃跑和动物以及焦虑。
You've talked so much about adrenaline and running from animals and anxiety.
但动物还会做另一件事。
But there's another thing animals do.
像鹿被车灯照到一样。
Deer in headlights.
对吧？
Right?
装死。
Faking death.
这些也是哺乳动物的反应。
These are also mammal responses.
因此，我在谈到这一点时说，当你在创伤中出现冻结反应时，往往会感到深深的羞耻，但这种反应完全是无意识的。
And so that's where I talk about a little bit is I think that there is so much shame when you've had a freeze response in a trauma, but it is completely involuntary.
我们无法选择自己的神经系统如何应对某种情况。
We do not get to choose how our nervous system responds to something.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得冻结反应本身也伴随着很多羞耻感。
I think there's a lot of shame connected to the freeze response in general, too.
对吧？
Right?
总觉得，唉，为什么我就是说不出话呢？
Feeling like, oh, well, why can't I why can't I speak up?
为什么我就是跑不掉？
Why can't I run?
为什么我就是想不出话来？
Why can't I come up with words?
你知道，有很多可能和所有创伤反应相关的羞耻感。
You know, like there's a lot of, you know, there might be shame connected to all of the
很可能。
Probably.
创伤反应。
Trauma responses.
对吧？
Right?
现在我这么一想。
Now that I'm thinking about it.
但我们往往会对自己感到沮丧。
But but but I think we get frustrated with ourselves.
所以我们想谈论这些，谈论冻结反应，是为了让它正常化，帮助你理解它。
And so the reason why we wanna talk about these and, you know, talk about the freeze response is to normalize it, help you understand it.
你越理解它，就越能建立结构，或者找到一些方法来帮助你摆脱冻结反应。
And the more you understand it, the more you can create structure or, you know, have things that you can do that can help kind of move you out of the freeze response.
建立一些机制，让你能弄清楚：我需要什么，才能不再持续陷入这种冻结反应？
Put things in place so that you can figure out, okay, well, what do I need so that I'm not consistently falling into this freeze response?
或者，哪些事情会触发我、让我陷入冻结反应？
Or what are the things that trigger me or push me into the freeze response?
那你能告诉我，冻结反应会是什么样子吗？
So tell me what the freeze response would look like.
冻结型创伤反应具体有哪些表现？
What what's, like, some of the freeze trauma response?
我该怎么识别呢？
How would I know?
感觉完全麻木，觉得生活毫无意义，关闭自己，社交退缩，彻底回避，躲起来不见人，拖延或连小决定都做不了，无休止地刷社交媒体，狂看电视剧。
So feeling completely numb, like life is pointless, shutting down, social withdrawal, complete avoidance, hiding out from the world, procrastination or inability to make even small decisions, endless social media scrolling, binging TV.
也许他之前的竞争确实和冻结反应有关。
Maybe maybe he did rivalry did have to do with the freeze response.
真奇怪。
Weird.
对什么是真实的或虚幻的、究竟发生了什么感到困惑，常被误认为是抑郁，容易轻易放弃。
Confusion over what's real or unreal or actually happening often confused or misdiagnosed with depression, giving up quickly.
但最近也有很多人谈论功能性的冻结反应。
But there's also been a lot of talk around functional freeze.
是的。
Yeah.
这种情况下，你内心处于冻结状态，但外表上仍然在正常运作。
And that's where you freeze internally, but you're still functioning externally.
在外面，你工作、育儿、回复邮件，但你处于自动驾驶模式，内心却麻木而空洞。
So outside, you work, you parent, you answer emails, but you're on autopilot and inside you're numb and blank.
你有脑雾感，感到脱节，难以做决定或感受任何情绪。
You have brain fog, you feel disconnected, and it's hard to make decisions or feel anything.
这本质上是你的神经系统选择压抑和保存能量，以便你能撑过去。
And this is basically your nervous system choosing to contain and conserve so you can get through.
我认为很多人，尤其是在面对世界上这么多纷繁事务时，都会感受到并陷入这种功能性冻结反应。
And I think a lot of us feel and fall into this functional freeze response, especially when we're dealing with so much that's happening in the world.
尤其是，我们现在就来谈谈这个吧。
Especially I mean, let's talk about that right now.
对吧？
Right?
比如，我们正目睹民主在某种程度上的衰落，以及法西斯主义在美国的上升。
Like, we're witnessing, you know, the downfall of democracy in some ways and increase of fascism in The United States.
我们坐在这里，心中牵挂着明尼苏达的那些人。
We're sitting here and thinking so much about all the folks in Minnesota.
但与此同时，我也在连续三次观看激烈的对决。
And yet I'm also watching heated rivalry three times in a row.
对吧？
Right?
所以
So
是的。
Yeah.
还有不停刷屏。
And doomscrolling.
我刚才还在说，昨天我陷在Instagram里出不来了。
I was I was just saying I got I got stuck in, a, you know, a Instagram hole yesterday.
当我刷的时候，我对自己说，这对我一点帮助都没有。
And while I'm doing it, I'm saying to myself, this is not helpful for me.
我知道这没好处，但我还是在做。
Like, I know that it's not helpful and I'm still doing it.
这背后有一种麻木感。
And there's something about numbing.
也许我了解得越多，理解得越深，
There's something about maybe the more I know or the more I understand.
我就产生了一种虚假的掌控感。
I have this, like, false sense of control.
但我的另一部分大脑在说：我知道这没帮助，我真的需要给自己设限，因为现在这到底给我带来了什么？
But there's another part of my brain that's saying, like, I know this isn't helpful and I really need to limit this for myself because, you know, what's what is it doing for me right now?
到了那时，它根本没有任何作用。
And at that point, it wasn't doing anything.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我认为，当我们经历和目睹美国正在发生的这种程度的创伤时，很多人会陷入一种功能性冻结状态——我们一方面在麻木自己，另一方面又不得不继续日常生活的运转。
And so I think a lot of us end up in this kind of functional freeze state when we're experiencing and witnessing this level of trauma that's happening in The US and where we, you know, are numbing and at the same time, we have to function in our everyday lives.
我通过惨痛的教训明白，即使喝大量的水，仍然可能感到精疲力尽。
I learned the hard way that you can drink tons of water and still feel depleted.
如果你的身体无法吸收它所需的营养，你可能会感到压力大、头脑昏沉、状态不佳。
You can feel stressed, foggy, and off if your body isn't absorbing what it needs.
这就是我开始采用Peak的深层补水方案的原因，它彻底改变了我对补水的认知。
That's why I started Peak's deep hydration protocol, and it's changed how I think about hydration.
这是一个简单的早晚routine，由两种相互配合的产品组成。
It's a simple day to night routine with two products that work together.
早上，我会把BT喷雾混入水中，通过矿物质和护肤成分实现真正的补水重启。
In the morning, I mix BT fountain into water for a real hydration reset with minerals and skin supporting ingredients.
透明质酸、神经酰胺提供深层饱满补水，加上螯合矿物质促进吸收。
Hyaluronic acid, ceramides for deep plumping hydration, plus chelated minerals to help absorption.
我注意到浮肿减少了，皮肤更光滑，精力稳定而温和，没有焦躁感，只有清晰的头脑。
I noticed less puffiness, smoother skin, and steady gentle energy, and no jitters, just clarity.
晚上，我会在睡前一小时服用RE Fountain。
At night, I take RE Fountain about an hour before bed.
它含有先进的镁，有助于镇静神经系统，促进更深的睡眠。
It has advanced magnesium to calm the nervous system and support deeper sleep.
感觉就像把一天的喧嚣音量调低了。
So it feels like it turns the volume down on the day.
我更容易入睡，睡得更久，醒来后感觉恢复得更好。
I fall asleep easier, stay asleep longer and wake up more restored.
白天是补水与能量，夜晚是平静与修复。
Together, it's hydration and energy by day calm restoration at night.
这不是快速解决方案，而是一种节奏，提醒你补水不仅仅是喝水。
Not a quick fix, but a rhythm that reminds you hydration isn't just water.
重新定义你的健康标准。
Redefine your standard of health.
下单立享8折优惠。
Secure 20% off your order.
立即前往 peaklife.com/shrinkchicks，开启你的有意识健康之旅。
Begin your intentional wellness journey today at peaklife.com/shrinkchicks.
网址是 piquelife.com/shrinkchicks。
That's piquelife.com/shrinkchicks.
这是重新定义的补水体验，试试看，由内而外焕发光彩。
This is hydration redefine, try it and glow from the inside out.
我一向发现，只要指甲做好了，我就感觉整个人更精致了，哪怕其他方面一点都没变。
I've always noticed that when my nails are done, I feel more put together, even if literally nothing else is.
但去美甲沙龙总感觉太耗时间，现在我可以在家用Olive and June获得沙龙级的美甲效果。
But salon trips have always felt like such a time commitment and now I get salon quality nails at home with Olive and June.
我使用他们的Gelmani系统，简直爱不释手。
I use their Gelmani system and I'm obsessed.
它包含所有你需要的东西：五指LED灯、专业级工具，以及可维持长达二十一天的无HEMA凝胶甲油。
It comes with everything you need, a five finger LED lamp, salon grade tools, and hema free gel polish that lasts up to twenty one days.
它还专为现实生活设计。
It's also designed for real life.
忙碌的早晨，一边看真实犯罪纪录片，一边做指甲。
Busy mornings doing your nails while watching a true crime documentary.
所有这些都包括在内。
All of it.
真正让我印象深刻的是，我的指甲现在看起来和我以前自己做的时候完全不同。
What really stands out is how different my nails look compared to when I used to do them myself.
在使用Olive and June之前，也还凑合。
And before Olive and June, it was fine.
现在它们看起来干净、精致、专业，人们都会问我在哪里做的，而我总是开心地回答：在我沙发上。
Now they look clean, polished, professional, and people ask where I got them done, and I love saying my couch.
算下来每次美甲才几美元，相比沙龙的价格，简直不可思议。
It also works out to just a couple dollars per manicure, which feels wild compared to salon prices.
而且我不再需要赶着去预约了。
And I don't miss rushing to appointments.
我通常在晚上一切安静下来后做指甲，根据每周的心情在柔和的中性色和更深的色调之间轮换。
I usually do mine at night after everything settles down, rotating between soft neutrals and moodier shades depending on the week.
这已经成为我真正期待的小仪式，我很喜欢Olive and June不断推出凝胶、加固凝胶和贴片甲等新产品。
It's become a little ritual I actually look forward to and I love that Olive and June keeps expanding with gel, builder gel, and press on nails too.
它让美甲变得触手可及，不再令人压力重重，你一定要试试。
It makes great nails feel accessible, not stressful, and you've got to try it.
访问 oliveandjune.com/shrinkchicks，首套产品享8折优惠。
Visit oliveandjune.com/shrinkchicks for 20% off your first system.
访问 oliveandjune.com/shrinkchicks，首套产品享8折优惠。
That's oliveandjune.com/shrinkchicks for 20% off your first system.
这真是件有趣的事。
And it's an interesting thing.
对吧？
Right?
所以我们为每个反应制作不同集的原因之一，是为了给你留出足够的空间去自我理解，因为人们会问：我该如何调节我的神经系统？
And so one of the reasons why we wanted to do different episode for each response is to, like, is to give a lot of space to understand for yourself because people will say, well, how do I regulate my nervous system?
我该如何摆脱这些反应？
How do I get out of these responses?
我认为首先弄清楚你正在经历的是哪一种反应非常重要，因为针对不同情况，你的应对方式是不一样的。
Well, I think it's really important first to know which one you're experiencing because what you do is not the same for everything.
对吧？
Right?
所以，如果我正在经历逃跑或战斗反应，我处理的方式肯定和冻结反应不一样。
So if I'm experiencing a flight or a fight response, I am probably not gonna handle the same way as freeze.
因此，我们会在这里讨论神经系统的调节，但具体方式可能有所不同。
And so we'll sit here and we'll talk about nervous system regulation, but that could look different.
对吧？
Right?
所以对于冻结反应，你真的需要激活你的交感神经系统。
So for a freeze response, you really need to activate your sympathetic nervous system.
所以这可能表现为跳舞、武术或剧烈运动。
So that might look like actually dancing or martial arts or rigorous exercise.
对吧？
Right?
就是那种像有氧运动一样的东西。
Like, fucking like a cardio thing.
你知道，这时候我最讨厌的东西——冷水浴。
You know, this is when, you know, my favorite thing that I hate more than anything, cold plunge.
你们都见过我们。
You've seen us.
如果你看过我们的视频，就知道我们不是不喜欢它。
If you've seen the videos, it's not we don't like it.
对吧？
Right?
但冷水浴对冻结反应其实非常有效，而不是像引导冥想那样让你平静下来，因为我们希望重新激活你体内的某种状态。
But that is actually really good for a freeze response as opposed to, like, a guided meditation to bring you back because we wanna reactivate something in you.
对吧？
Right?
所以这种感觉，詹之前用了一个非常重要的词。
So this feeling so Jen used a really important word earlier.
无意义。
Pointless.
对吧？
Right?
无意义、绝望，或者我到底在做什么？完全麻木？
Pointless or hopeless or or what am I doing completely numb?
以某种方式让我们从麻木中恢复过来。
To un numb ourselves in some way.
所以像疯狂地跳舞、让身体在垫子上晃动，这类活动在躯体疗法中会非常重要。
And so doing things like getting real crazy in my dance moves and jiggling my body a mat, this is something where somatic therapy is going to be very, very important.
如果你被困在上述四种创伤反应中的一种，找一位躯体治疗师将会是你最好的选择之一。
If you were someone who was stuck in one of these four f's, trauma responses, finding a somatic therapist is gonna be one of the best things for you.
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我认为也很重要的是讨论一下，比如当在争吵或对话过程中突然出现冻结反应时，对吧？
I think it might also be important to talk about, like, when a freeze response happens in the middle of, you know, an argument or a conversation or right?
因为如果你很容易就进入冻结反应，可能是因为你的神经系统超载了，对吧，或者你过度刺激了。
Because if you're someone who ends up in the freeze response pretty quickly, maybe because your nervous system is overwhelmed, right, or you're overstimulated.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
当你进入这种冻结反应时，就会关闭自己。
And you move into this freeze response, you shut down.
也许在那一刻跳进冰水浴。
Maybe jumping into a cold plunge in that moment.
所以我只是觉得，你不可能每次都坐着不动。
So I just think, well, you don't have one sitting.
我
I
不是每个房间都有。
don't have one in every room.
你知道的吧？
You know?
我不能只是那样说，
I can't just be like,
你真有趣。
you Interesting.
你能等我一秒钟吗？
Can you hold on one second?
我要去泡个冰浴。
I'm gonna, like, pop into this cold plunge.
我要开始练综合格斗了。
I'm gonna start doing mixed martial arts.
因为我要说清楚，珍。
Because you imagine let me be clear, Jen.
如果你在我们开会中途开始练综合格斗，我会觉得你酷毙了。
If you started doing mixed martial arts in the middle of our of a meeting, I would think you're so much cooler.
好的。
Okay.
我的意思是，听我说。
I mean, listen.
也许吧，也许我应该把开始练综合格斗作为我的应对策略之一。
Maybe maybe I that should be you know, in my in my little coping toolbox is like I start doing mixed martial arts.
听好了，如果你在争论中突然想这么做，我支持你。
And listen, if that's what you want to do in the middle of an argument, I support you.
我和你一起上过自卫课，我觉得你需要练点格斗术。
I've taken a self defense class with you, and I think you could use some martial arts.
我以为我挺厉害的。
I thought I was pretty good.
不是吗？
No?
我以为我真的很
I thought I was really
最难的部分是他们直接把你抓走的时候。
The hard part is when you were they were they just picked you up and took you away.
有人拖着我走。
Someone dragged me.
显然，我当时进入了冻结反应。
Just like, obviously, I went to the freeze response.
我 literally 就像被车灯照住的鹿一样。
I literally was like, deer in headlights.
带我走吧。
Take me.
是的。
Yes.
你当时就默认了自己的死亡。
You just conceded to your death right there.
但好吧。
But okay.
但更小的方式是什么呢？
But what are smaller ways, though?
你可以这么说，我需要去一下洗手间，然后把冰凉的水泼在脸上。
Well, you could say, I need to I hold on, I have to go to the bathroom for a minute, and then you put freezing cold water on your face.
对。
Right.
或者只是给自己一些空间，远离让你感到不堪重负的刺激。
Or even just giving yourself the space from the stimulation that's overwhelming you.
这正是我们待会要讨论的内容：在一段亲密关系中，你必须能够表达出来，‘当我们吵架时，我会出现这样的反应’，这样你的伴侣才会了解，因为一旦你开始关闭自己、进入冻结反应，就很难再进行情感上的互动了。
And this is something we're going to talk about, but like in a partnership, it's important for you to be able to voice, Hey, this is what happens to me in if we're in an argument, if, you know, and so your partner knows because once you're shutting down, once you're in that freeze response, it's going to be really hard to engage relationally.
但我们收到了很多问题，有些是关于关系的，有些则不是。
But we got a lot of questions, some of them relational, some of them not.
那我们就开始回答这些问题吧。
So let's dive into them and we'll get into it.
有人问：冻结反应背后的生存机制是什么？
So someone wrote, what is the survival mechanism behind freezing?
这对我来说似乎违背直觉，但确实会发生在我身上。
It seems counterintuitive to me, but yet it happens to me.
是的。
Yeah.
我们之前谈到过，冻结反应在自然界中是存在的。
So we talked about the freeze response is seen in nature.
所以，基本上，动物最终接受了死亡是不可避免的。
So so, basically, animals finally accept their death is inevitable.
比如，鹿在面对捕食者时。
Like, deer in head.
对，就是这样。
Like right.
就像，这就是即将发生的事。
Like, it's just like this is what's gonna happen.
我在我后院见过这种情况，那里有很多松鼠。
I have seen this in terms of we have a ton of squirrels in my backyard.
我的一只狗叫多莉·帕顿，它喜欢看松鼠，但根本不会做任何事。
And Dolly Parton, my one dog, loves looking at squirrels, but also she doesn't do shit.
这只狗不是攻击型的狗。
This dog is not an attack dog.
但有一天，碰巧我不知道那只松鼠是不是分心了，它突然就停了下来，然后就这么翻了个身。
But the one day, by chance, I don't know if this squirrel was distracted or what, it just, like, stopped and just, like, fucking, like, like, just rolled over.
多莉·帕顿完全不知道该怎么办，只是用爪子在那里瞎扒拉。
And Dolly Parton had no idea what to do with it, so she's just, like, gotta fucking with her paw.
她心想：我现在拿这玩意儿怎么办？
She's like, what do I do with this thing now?
其实她只是想追它，而不是真的想抓到它。
Like, I didn't actually she just wants to chase him.
她根本不想抓住这只松鼠。
She doesn't actually wanna catch this thing.
是的。
Yeah.
就在那一刻，那只松鼠心想：看来我完蛋了。
And in that moment, that squirrel was like, I guess it's over for me.
我懂。
I get that.
说实话，我和那只松鼠很有共鸣。
Honestly, I relate to that squirrel.
我不知道我能不能念对这个单词。
I don't know if I'm gonna pronounce this correctly.
说实话，我肯定念不对这个单词。
For the record, I'm not going to pronounce this correctly.
但僵住的现象实际上是由于一种神经递质——乙酰胆碱的释放造成的。
But the freezing up is actually caused by a release of a neurotransmitter, acetylcholine.
绝对不是。
Definitely not.
是的。
Yes.
乙酰胆碱。
Acetylcholine.
乙酰胆碱。
Acetylcholine.
乙酰胆碱。
Acetylcholine.
看吧，我们不是化学家。
See, we're not chemists.
对吧？
Right?
我可能也是编的。
I might have made that up too.
我装作知道怎么发音
I acted like I know how to pronounce
但基本上，它会降低你的心率，导致身体僵硬、呼吸受限、麻木、解离以及一种恐惧感。
But basically, it does is it triggers a drop in your heart rate and gives you more physical stiffness, restricted breathing, numbness dissociating, and a sense of dread.
所以，实际上，由于这种神经递质的释放，才会产生我们在这里讨论的生理症状。
So, actually, because of this release of the neurotransmitter, it does the physiological symptoms that we're talking about here.
所以，这才是真正的生存机制。
So that is the actual survival mechanism.
所以这并不是一种生存机制。
So it's not a survival mechanism.
这仅仅是一种机制。
It's just a mechanism.
我就只是想，好吧，我干脆直接死掉算了，随它去吧。
It's just like, I guess I'll just fucking die now and, like, let it happen.
对吧？
Right?
如果真有僵尸末日来临，我大概就是这样了。
This is gonna be what's me if there's ever a zombie apocalypse.
就像末日一样。
Like, apocalypse.
末日。
Apocalypse.
末日。
Apocalypse.
我最近跟人说过，如果发生僵尸末日的话
I said that to someone recently that, like, if there's a zombie apocalypse
直接带我走吧。
Just fucking Take me.
带走，对吧？
Take Right?
就连在这里，我们也会看到当你的神经递质发挥作用时会发生什么。
Even in this Well, we'll see what happens when your neurotransmitter.
我知道。
I know.
听好了。
Listen.
知道。
Know.
我知道会发生什么。
I know what's going to happen.
我了解我自己。
I know myself.
我知道乙酰胆碱会带走我。
I've that acetylcholine is going to take me
它要来了。
It's coming.
你得不到肾上腺素。
You won't get the adrenaline.
绝对不可能。
Definitely not.
我要小睡一会儿。
I will take a nap.
我也经历过这种情况。
It's it was I also experienced this.
我不确定是不是同样的事情。
I don't know if it's the same thing.
但在这场暴风雪中，你知道，大家都说：暴风雪要来了。
But in this snowstorm, you know, everyone was like, the snowstorm's coming.
你知道的吧？
You know?
大家都做好准备。
Everyone get ready.
你知道我做了什么吗？
You know what I did?
就好像我们在宾夕法尼亚从未经历过暴风雪一样。
As if we've never experienced a snowstorm in Pennsylvania.
没错。
Right.
所以大家都慌了，跑去杂货店，跑去杂货店。
And so everyone was freaking out, go to the grocery store going to the grocery store.
他们说：‘我要为这场暴风雪做准备。’
They're like, I'm gonna prep for this.
你知道我做了什么吗？
And you know what I did?
你做了什么？
What did you do?
什么都没做。
Nothing.
我什么也没做。
I did nothing.
你也住在
You also live in a
一个可以步行到商店的地方。
place where you could walk to the store.
我也是这么想的。
That's what I thought.
是的。
And so Yes.
但在我周围的人还是慌了神。
But still people around me are freaking out.
在我心里，我想：为什么大家都这么慌张？
And in my mind, I'm like, why is everyone freaking out?
我们离杂货店这么近。
We live so close to a grocery store.
但是，对于
But, like, for
我在这里，可能会被困住。
me out here, though, like, I I could get stuck.
完全没错。
Totally.
对吧？
Right?
就像，我在这儿
Like, I there
而且你还要养孩子。
And you have children to feed.
我也有孩子。
And I have children.
你知道吗，DoorDash 根本到不了我这儿。
You know, DoorDash can't get to me out here.
没人会骑自行车来。
No one's coming in a bicycle.
人们可以骑自行车给你送外卖。
People could bicycle you deliveries.
不行。
No.
在那样的暴风雪里不可能。
Not in that snowstorm.
没人骑自行车。
No one was biking.
我跟你说实话。
I'll tell you that.
但不管怎样，我周围的人都慌了。
But, however, but everyone around me was freaking out.
我当时想，我可以看看别人，然后觉得自己哪里做错了。
And I thought to myself, you know, I could look at everyone else and I could say, I'm doing something wrong.
或者我可以运用我的批判性思维，告诉自己：我可以去杂货店。
Or I could use my critical thinking and be like, I can get to a grocery store.
我们这里食物足够。
We have enough food in here.
我不会死的。
I'm not going to die.
但谁知道呢？
But who knows?
你知道的。
You know?
这次结果还不错。
It ended up working out this time.
我还没因为拖延而遇到过什么后果。
I haven't had a consequence from procrastinating yet.
所以，总之，故事的教训就是，我会在那种情况下窝在沙发上不动。
And so, anyway, moral of the story is I'm gonna freeze in a situation like that.
你告诉我僵尸末日要来了。
You tell me a zombie apocalypse is coming.
你告诉我要下暴风雪了。
You tell me there's a snowstorm.
我会窝在沙发上不出门。
I am going to lay low on my couch.
而且我知道这非常有趣，我不确定是否有相关研究，但我很好奇是否与某种神经递质有关，
And that's I I know it's so interesting, though, and I don't know if there's research on this, but I wonder if there's something about, like, what kind of neurotransmitters,
比如，如果人们的大脑更容易产生积极反应的话。
Like If people have, like, more Yes.
没错。
Exactly.
如果我的大脑更容易释放出更多的
If my brain is more like Releases more of
某种特定的化学物质，而不是我的。
a specific chemical as opposed to mine.
对吧？
Right?
因为我的反应总是充满肾上腺素。
Like, because I'm so adrenaline.
想想我这种情况。
Like, think about me.
对吧？
Right?
我身上根本就没有什么冻结反应。
Like, there is nothing about me that's ever freeze.
没错。
Right.
我就是那种典型的战斗或逃跑型人格。
I am, like, fucking I am very much fight or flight.
我会直接他妈的走人。
Like, I'll just fucking leave.
是的。
Yes.
你需要行动。
You need movement.
永远别再见到我了。
Never see me again.
是的。
Yeah.
但我确实在以某种方式移动。
But I'm moving in some way.
这是朝着某个方向。
It's towards.
这是远离。
It's away.
我总是在向某个地方移动。
I'm always moving somewhere.
所以，我在想，这背后会不会有什么原因。
So, like, I wonder if there could be a reason why that is.
首先，这确实是咱们应该查一下的事情。
Well, that's something we should probably look up, first of all.
其次，我最近第一次看了我小时候的旧家庭录像。
And second of all, I recently looked at, like, old home movies of myself when I was a child for the first time.
你知道，记得自己小时候的事情是一回事，但回忆自己作为孩子的样子又是另一回事。
And, you know, it's one thing to, like, remember things from your child or you remember yourself as a child.
但亲眼看着它又是另一回事。
It's another thing to watch it.
观看自己小时候的影像是一种极大的肯定，因为我和我想象中的自己完全一致，也和我现在的感觉完全一样。
It was the most validating thing to watch myself as a child because I am exactly as I pictured, and I'm exactly as how I feel now.
比如，我很安静。
Like, I am quiet.
我总是，嗯，在观察。
I am, like, observing.
我四处张望，默默观察。
I'm, like, looking around observing.
每当我感到不知所措，或者过度刺激时，我就会睡着。
And when ever I was overwhelmed, whenever I was overstimulated, I would fall asleep.
我去了一场音乐会。
I went to a concert.
我六岁时去看了艾伦妮斯·莫里斯特的演唱会。
I went to Alanis Morseck concert when I was six years old.
我非常喜欢。
Loved it.
然后我就睡着了。
And then I fell asleep.
每次去婚礼，只要一过度刺激，我就会睡着。
Anytime I went to a wedding, fell like, anytime I was overstimulated, I fell asleep.
所以我不确定这是我的身体因为过度刺激而关闭，还是释放了某种神经递质。
So I don't know if that's my body shutting down because of being overstimulated or releasing this neurotransmitter.
嗯，这是
Well, it's
而且你有注意力缺陷障碍，我也有注意力缺陷多动障碍。
also you have ADD and I have ADHD.
是的。
Yes.
因此，我更容易感到过度刺激。
And so because of that, I'm overstimulated more easily.
嗯嗯。
Uh-huh.
我的系统更容易超载。
My system is overwhelmed more easily.
所以，由于我的系统超载，我更可能释放这种神经递质。
And so I might be more likely to release this neurotransmitter because of my system being overwhelmed.
但你的DNA是怎么进入我孩子的体内的呢？
How did your DNA get in my child, though?
听好了。
Listen.
通过渗透。
Through osmosis.
我觉得DNA就是这样起作用的。
I think that's how DNA works.
如果我要去研究的话。
If I were to research.
我觉得是渗透作用。
I think it's osmosis.
所以我们要录这一集，然后说，告诉你吧，这些家伙根本不是科学家。
So we're list this episode and be like, me tell you, these bitches aren't scientists.
他们就是傻瓜。
They're idiots.
我们连任何单词都念不出来。
We can't pronounce any words.
我们只会说，那些东西。
We're like, that stuff.
我的意思是，但看到你的孩子有完全不同的反应真的很有趣，因为米莉是同卵双胞胎。
I mean, but it is it's so interesting to watch your child have a very different response because Millie is identical.
是的。
Yeah.
她的退缩速度太快了。
Her shutdown is so fast.
是的。
Yeah.
然后她就只想自己玩。
And then she just wants to play with herself.
前几天，我们带宝宝去了一次很长的医疗预约。
So we had to go to we do a really long medical appointment for our baby the other day.
碰巧，等了两个小时。
By chance, there was a two hour delay.
于是，我们的一位朋友早上带米莉去她家玩。
And so one of our friends took Millie in the morning to play at her house.
她一走，我就觉得：哦，这下要糟了。
And the second that she went, I was like, oh, this this is gonna be bad.
嗯哼。
Like Uh-huh.
我们三个人都在一起。
We're all the three of us are together.
她要去别的地方。
She's going somewhere else.
她不能和我们一起到这一步，因为你知道这意味着什么吧？
She doesn't get to come to this point with us because, of course, when you know what mean?
这是一次非常漫长的医疗预约。
Like, it's a very long medical appointment.
之后我给那位妈妈发了短信。
And I texted the mom afterwards.
我问她：‘怎么样？’
I was like, how'd it go?
她回复说：‘米莉很难受。’
And she was like, Millie had a really hard time.
是的。
Yeah.
她非常敏感，只想自己一个人玩。
She was really sensitive, and she just wanted to play by herself.
我懂这种感觉。
I feel that.
我当时就想，哇。
And I was like, wow.
如果换作是我，情绪被触发了，我可能会不停地讨好所有人，表演一番，因为我太不自在了；而她却完全退缩，只想自己一个人玩。
So if that was me and I was activated, I would have been actually fawning all over everyone and, like, putting on a show because I'd be so uncomfortable where she shut down completely and only want to play by herself.
是的。
Yeah.
我感同身受。
I feel that in my bones.
我明白。
I get that.
我、米莉和米莉
I Millie me and Millie
其实是一样的。
are just the same.
但确实如此。
But it is.
这真的很有趣。
It's just very interesting.
而且再次强调，我之所以用孩子来讨论这个问题，是因为没有哪一种反应更好。
And once again, the reason I wanna talk about it in terms of a child is that there is not one that's better than the other.
了解自己独特的本性至关重要。
This is the importance of just knowing your unique self.
是的。
Yes.
因为如果珍进入冻结状态，而我进入战斗或逃跑状态，两者并没有谁更好。
Because if Jen goes into a freeze state and if I go into a fight or flight state, one is not better than the other.
每个人都是不同的。
Everyone is different.
对我们许多人来说，我们可以在童年早期看到自己是如何反应的。
And for a lot of us, we can see this in early childhood of how I've responded.
对我们中的一些人来说，当我们经历某些创伤性事件时才会注意到，但如果你回溯一下，可能会感到惊讶。
For some of us, we see it when we had some type of traumatic experience, but you'd be surprised if you look back.
所以，如果你有那些家庭录像，只要不会让你感到创伤就行。
So if you have any of those family movies, and they won't traumatize you.
我穿Quince时，收到的穿搭赞美比任何时候都多。
I never get more compliments on my outfit than when I'm wearing quince.
我刚买了他们的羽绒夹克，走到哪儿都有人问我这衣服在哪买的。
I just got their down puffer jacket, and I can't go anywhere without someone asking where it's from.
Quince的单品总给人一种高级又随意的感觉，是那种可以叠穿、混搭、真正日常穿着的基础款。
Quinn's pieces always feel elevated but effortless, the kind of staples you can layer, mix, and actually live in.
我有几件他们的羊绒和棉质毛衣，无论跑腿、开会、旅行还是居家，都能穿，我对它们的耐穿程度印象深刻。
I have a couple of their cashmere and cotton sweaters that somehow work for errands, meetings, travels, and lounging, and I've been seriously impressed with how well everything holds up.
缝线、面料重量、衣物保持形状的能力，都明显是为持久耐用而设计的。
The stitching, the fabric weight, the way pieces keep their shape, it's clearly made to last.
他们的牛仔裤有完美的弹性，毛衣柔软却不显脆弱，品质堪比我花高价买过的物品。
Their denim has the perfect amount of stretch, their sweaters are soft without feeling delicate, and the quality rivals items I've paid way more for.
我也很喜欢他们的做法。
I also love how they do it.
Quince 直接与道德工厂合作，省去中间商，因此你付的钱是为品质，而不是品牌。
Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middleman, so you're paying for quality, not branding.
想想看：100%有机棉、欧洲亚麻布和高级弹力牛仔布，这些材质经得起一季又一季的使用。
Think a 100% organic cotton, European linen, and premium stretch denim, materials that last season after season.
这件羽绒服既保暖又时尚，我在雪地中跑腿时依然保持干爽，而且价格并不昂贵。
And this puffer jacket, so warm and chic, kept me dry running errands in the snow, and it didn't break the bank.
而且，Quince 的产品远不止服装。
And plus, Quince has way more than clothes.
你一定要看看他们的珠宝、配饰、行李箱、床品等等。
You've gotta check out their jewelry, accessories, luggage, bedding, and more.
用 Quince 更新你的衣橱。
Refresh your wardrobe with Quince.
前往 quince.com/shrinkchicks，享受免费配送，现在加拿大地区也提供365天退换服务。
Go to quince.com/shrinkchicks for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada too.
访问 quince.com/shrinkchicks，获取免费配送和每天3.65美元的退换服务。
That's quince.com/shrinkchicks to get free shipping and $3.65 day returns.
Quince.com/shrinkchicks。
Quince.com/shrinkchicks.
我了解到，当生活感到忙碌或混乱时——这其实已经是常态了——真正能坚持下来的往往是那些非常微小的习惯，而AG1就是我的其中之一。
I've learned that when life feels busy or chaotic, which honestly feels like the norm, the routines that stick are the really small ones and AG1 is one of those for me.
与其应付一堆补品，AG1让一切变得简单：一勺就能补充维生素、益生菌、超级食物和抗氧化剂。
Instead of juggling a bunch of supplements, AG1 keeps it simple multivitamin, probiotics, superfoods and antioxidants in one scoop.
不需要复杂的服用时间表或提醒，只是一样我真正能长期坚持的东西。
No complicated schedule or reminders, just something I can actually maintain long term.
我喜欢在寒冷的冬日早晨，趁别人都还没醒的时候享用它。
I love it on chilly winter mornings when I'm up before everyone else.
我把它和水混合，趁喝咖啡前喝掉，让它成为我一天开始前的锚点。
I mix it with water and drink it before coffee and let that be my anchor before the day starts.
即使在旅行、熬夜或作息被打乱、一切显得不可预测的时候，这也是支持基础营养的简便方式。
It's an easy way to support foundational nutrition even when travel, late nights or broken routines makes everything feel unpredictable.
更新的下一代配方包含了比以往更多的临床验证维生素和矿物质，还添加了B族维生素提供的日常能量支持，以及益生菌、抗氧化剂和功能性蘑菇提供的免疫支持——这些正是我们当下所需要的。
The updated next gen formula includes more clinically proven vitamins and minerals than ever, plus daily energy support from B vitamins and immune support from probiotics, antioxidants, functional mushrooms, which we all need right about now.
这是一件小事，但日积月累效果显著，我每天都乐于为自己这么做，你也该试试。
It's a small thing that adds up and I love doing it for myself every day and you should try it too.
AG1有原味柑橘浆果和热带浆果两种口味，我最爱热带浆果，但你可以多尝试，找到自己最喜欢的口味。
AG1 comes in original citrus berry and tropical berry is my go to, but experiment and find what you love.
AG1拥有超过五万条真实五星评价，并提供90天无理由退款保证。
AG1 has over 50,000 verified five star reviews and comes with a ninety day money back guarantee.
限时优惠：前往 drinkag1.com/drinkchicks，免费获取AG1风味样品包和AGZ样品包，试遍所有口味，此外首次订阅AG1时还可免费获得维生素D3和K2，以及AG1欢迎礼包。
For a limited time only, go to drinkag1.com/drinkchicks to get free AG1 flavor sampler and AGZ sampler to try all the flavors plus free vitamin D3 and K2 and AG1 welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order.
此优惠仅限限时，售完即止。
This is a limited time offer only available while supplies last.
前往 drinkag1.com/shrinkchicks。
That's drinkag1.com/shrinkchicks.
Drinkag1.com/shrinkchicks.
Drinkag1.com/shrinkchicks.
如果你和我一样，晚餐让你感到压力重重，或者只是漫长一天结束后又一个需要做决定的事情，那你一定要试试Green Chef。
If you're anything like me and dinner is the meal that stresses you out or just feels like one more decision at the end of a long day, you've got to check out Green Chef.
我最欣赏的是它让一切变得如此简单。
What I love most is how easy it makes everything.
没有花哨的噱头，没有极端的做法，只有精心挑选的食材和真正美味的餐食。
No gimmicks, no extremes, just thoughtfully sourced ingredients and meals that actually taste good.
他们使用经过认证的有机农产品，搭配负责任采购的蛋白质和海鲜，食谱均衡且令人满足。
They use certified organic produce plus responsibly sourced proteins and seafood, and the recipes feel balanced and satisfying.
我家人的最爱是他们的意面海鲜类菜肴，比如奶油虾意面或地中海风格的鱼类餐点，因为它们令人安心、饱腹，而且味道非常新鲜。
My family's favorites are their pasta seafood dishes like the creamy shrimp pasta or Mediterranean style fish meals because they're comforting, filling, and they taste so fresh.
Green Chef还大大减轻了我的脑力负担。
Green Chef also takes a huge load off my brain.
他们负责规划、采购，甚至做研究，让我只需专心烹饪和享用美食。
They handle the planning, shopping, and even the research so I can just cook and eat.
这些食谱准备简单、清洁方便，且适合不同的生活方式，不再为做什么菜或缺什么食材而烦恼，真的让人松了一口气。
The recipes are low prep, low mess, and flexible for different lifestyles, and not stressing over what to make or what I'm missing is such a relief.
此外，它们还能帮助减少食物浪费并抵消配送产生的碳排放，让我们和地球都受益。
On top of that, they help cut food waste and offset delivery emissions, so it feels like a win for us and to the planet.
我非常喜欢Green Chef，任何希望晚餐更轻松、更愉快的人都会推荐它。
I love Green Chef and I'd recommend it to anyone who wants dinner to feel easier and more enjoyable.
现在就前往 greenchef.com/shrinkchicksgraza，使用代码 shrinkchicksgraza，即可享受Green Chef五折优惠，并在第二和第三箱中免费获得Graza橄榄油套装。
Right now go to greenchef.com/shrinkchicksgraza and use code shrinkchicksgraza to get started with 50% off Green Chef and free graza olive oil set in your second and third boxes.
这个五折优惠仅限限时提供，别再拖延了。
This 50% off offer is only available for a limited time so don't wait.
代码是 shrink chicks graza，访问 Green Chef dot com slash shrink chicks graza。
That's code shrink chicks graza at Green Chef dot com slash shrink chicks graza.
有人问，冻结反应和感到或停留在停滞状态之间有什么区别？
Somebody said, what's the difference between freeze response and feeling or staying stuck?
这是个非常好的问题。
That's a it's a great question.
冻结反应是一种神经系统状态。
So a freeze response is a nervous system state.
你的身体在启动生存制动机制，进入冻结状态，就像大脑 offline 一样，而感到停滞则更多是一种长期形成的模式。
Your body is hitting the survival breaks and freezes like your brain going offline, whereas feeling stuck is more of a pattern over time.
回避、犹豫不决、拖延、反复思虑。
Avoidance, indecision, procrastination, rumination.
所以停滞更像是我在不断循环。
So stuck is more of like me looping.
我在循环，或者无法做决定，而冻结则是我彻底关闭了。
I'm looping or I can't make a decision, and freeze is me shutting down.
我认为冻结可能会让你感到停滞。
I think that freeze can lead you to feeling stuck.
对吧？
Right?
它们在很多方面是相互关联的。
They're they're connected in a lot of ways.
所以，我认为这就是两者的区别。
And so that I would say is the difference.
因此，判断自己是处于冻结状态还是感到停滞的一种方法是问自己：我现在能正常思考吗？
So a way to kind of determine it, whether you're in a free state or you're feeling stuck is ask yourself, can I access my thinking right now?
如果你不能，那你很可能处于冻结或 Shutdown 状态。
If you can't, you're likely in a freeze or shutdown state.
如果能，但你却在反复思虑或陷入某种循环，那你很可能处于停滞状态。
And if yes, but you're ruminating or you're looping in some way, you are likely stuck.
所以，这是区分两者的一种方法。
So that's a way to tell the difference between the two.
有人问：当身处不安全的关系中时，冻结反应保护了我，那该如何从中走出来？
Someone asked, can you talk about coming out of the freeze response when in an unsafe relationship it protects me?
首先，我要说，是的。
First, I'll say, like, yes.
它确实保护了你。
It does protect you.
是的。
Yeah.
这正是这些方法的意义所在。
That's the point of these.
这正是关键所在。
That's literally the point.
对。
Yes.
真正有趣的是，冻结反应和对抗反应常常以一种最初让人感觉熟悉且极具吸引力的方式结合在一起，但随后可能会变成一种痛苦的循环。
What's really interesting is that freeze and fight responses often fit together in a way that can feel really familiar and magnetic at first, and then it can become a painful loop.
之所以如此，是因为每个人调节情绪的方式正好相反。
So the reason for that is that each person regulates in opposite directions.
通常，对抗反应通过直面问题、施压、要求明确性或提升紧张感来实现调节。
So a fight response typically regulates by moving towards a problem by pushing or pressing or demanding clarity or raising intensity.
对吧？
Right?
所以，这就是处于对抗反应中的人自我调节的方式。
So that's the way that someone who is in a fight response is regulating themselves.
而当一个人通过冻结反应来调节自己时，他们会通过退缩、沉默、空白或某种形式的关闭来实现调节。
And when someone regulates themselves by going into a freeze response, they regulate by moving away, going quiet, blank or like shutting down in some way.
正因为如此，当两个人以这种常常具有吸引力的方式调节时，他们可能会无意中强化彼此的行为。
Because of this, when two people are regulating in these often magnetic ways, they can accidentally reinforce each other.
所以，一个人通过升级来寻求连接，而另一个人则通过退缩来寻求安全。
So one person is escalating to get connection and then the other one is shutting down to stay safe.
因此，处于对抗反应中的人通过强度寻求连接，而冻结反应则通过距离寻求安全。
So people who are in this fight response, they're seeking connection through intensity and then Freeze is seeking safety through distance.
因此，他们共同形成了一种循环：一方越推动，另一方就越消失。
So together they can create this loop where the more one pushes, the more the other one disappears.
所以，我们刚才讨论了人们不同的调节方式以及它们如何在关系中形成互动，但如果你正在经历一段非常不安全的关系，这一点就非常重要，因为这不仅仅是‘我的伴侣通过对抗反应来调节’这么简单。
So, you know, that's us talking about the different ways that people regulate and how they end up in a relationship, but if you're talking about being in a really unsafe relationship, that's a pretty important thing to acknowledge because this isn't just, oh, my partner's regulating by being in the fight response.
这意味着我的伴侣是不安全的。
That's my partner is unsafe.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
没错
Right.
所以，这些在健康、正常运作的关系中是很有帮助的。
So, like these these are helpful to understand in a healthy, right, like healthy functioning relationship.
但如果存在虐待，这些反应就不太重要了。
But if there is abuse, then the responses aren't really gonna matter very much.
没错
Right.
如果对抗反应演变为恐吓、威胁、侮辱、堵住出口、强迫、监控，你知道，对抗反应有很多方式会演变成虐待。
So if the fight response turns into intimidation, threats, insults, blocking exits, coercion, monitoring, you know, like there's a lot of ways that the fight response can turn into abuse.
而如果你作为处于冻结反应的一方，想要暂停，或者试图表达，你知道，你想让伴侣知道，在对抗之外，我需要一些独处的时间来调节自己。
And if you as someone who ends up in the phrase response is asking to pause or you're trying to express, you know, you're trying to let your partner know outside of the fight, Hey, I need this time for myself so I can regulate.
你的伴侣不允许这样做。
Your partner doesn't allow for that.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
而且如果根本无法沟通，那么这些就是一些需要警惕的有害警示信号。
And there's no kind of working with it, then there are some those are some harmful red flags to look out for.
所以，如果你是那个被问到在不安全的关系中如何从冻结反应中走出来的人，你需要考虑的是：如果你身处不安全的关系，该如何获得你需要的支持？
So if you were someone this person is asking you to talk about coming out of the freeze response when in an unsafe relationship, something to consider is if you're in an unsafe relationship, you know, how do you get support you need?
你是否需要离开这段关系，才能真正照顾好自己？
Do you need to find you know, get out of that relationship so that you can really take care of yourself?
如果你需要支持，需要找人倾诉，那就去找安全的人，联系值得信赖的朋友，因为这一点非常重要。
And if you need support, if you need to talk to someone, talk to safe people, reach out to safe friends, because it's it's just something important to note.
如果你只是和一个能意识到自己问题的伴侣陷入不健康的循环，那就可以沟通解决，那就是另一种情况了。
If you're just stuck in an unhealthy loop with a partner that can can see their part in it, you can talk through it, that's a different situation.
但识别这些有害的警示信号很重要。
But it's important to look for some of those harmful red flags.
是的。
Yeah.
有人说过，那我该如何预防呢？
Somebody said, and then how can I work at preventing it?
让我们明确一下。
So let's be clear.
对吧？
Right?
于是我们就产生了非常负面的联想。
Then we have, like, a really negative association.
所以这里有一些你可以问自己的其他问题。
So here are some other questions you could possibly ask yourself instead.
我的神经系统对冲突和亲密关系学到了什么？
What did my nervous system learn about conflict and closeness?
什么样的关系让冻结变得必要？
What kinds of relationships made freeze necessary?
什么样的关系能帮助我的系统保持在线？
What kinds of relationships help my system stay online?
所以当我们谈论预防时，我该如何走到这一步？
So when we talk about preventing it is how how would I get here?
对吧？
Right?
这对我有什么用？
How is this useful to me?
那么，情况可能会有什么不同？我想要在哪些方面做出改变？
And then what could look differently, and what would I like to change in regards to it?
这通常是珍经常提到的，比如在你的关系中，说：嘿。
And it is often something Jen talked about of saying, like, in your relationships, like, hey.
这是我的一部分。
Like, this is the thing that's a part of me.
对吧？
Right?
比如，我发现我的身体有时候会这样。
Like, I find my body does this sometimes.
如果你处在一段健康的关系中，就可以进行这些非常重要的对话。
And if you're in a healthy relationship, you can have those really important conversations.
但在像工作这样的环境中，这就难多了。
That's gonna be harder in a situation like, let's say, at work.
现在大多数工作场所，如果你在一群治疗师那里工作，那又是另一回事了。
Most workplaces now, if you work at a bunch of therapists, it's a different conversation.
但对大多数地方来说，你不能去对老板说：我想跟你聊聊我的冻结反应。
But for most places, you can't go to your boss and be like, I'd like to tell you about my freeze.
这就是为什么我过去三年都没交过我的工作成果。
And that's why I haven't turned in my my work for the past three years.
对吧？
Right?
你懂我的意思吧？
Like, you know what I mean?
比如，你去见老师，然后说：我这次考试没及格，因为现在可能遇到一位很酷的心理学教授。
Like, like, if you go to your teacher and you're like, oh, I failed this exam because this now maybe it's a cool psych professor.
但总的来说，我们还是得出现，并找到办法在这个世界里正常运作。
But, like, for the most part, like, we have to, like, show up and find a way to function in this world.
所以你得弄清楚，哪些东西能帮助我摆脱这种状态？
And so you had to figure out, like, what are the things that are gonna help take me out of this?
我能识别出它们吗？
Like, can I identify them?
弄清楚是什么导致了这种情况，对我们理解现状非常有帮助。
And helping to feel find out what tastes out of it, it's really helpful to have how we get here.
对。
Right.
对。
Right.
看看我们还有什么。
See what else we got.
由庄家决定。
Dealer's choice.
有人问：为什么我在权威人士或我不希望让他们失望的人面前更容易僵住？
Someone wrote, why do I freeze more with authority figures or people I don't want to disappoint?
这
That's
真是个好问题。
such a good question.
当你面对权威人士时，获得他们的认可对你来说可能关乎生存。
So when you're in the presence of authority figures, the approval of the authority figure can feel like survival for you.
所以当某人拥有权威，或者他们的意见对你非常重要时，你的大脑不仅仅在追踪他们是否喜欢你。
So when someone has authority or their opinion really matters, your brain isn't just tracking do they like me?
而是在追踪：我安全吗？
It's tracking am I safe?
我会被拒绝吗？
Will I be rejected?
如果我搞错了，会有后果吗？
Will there be consequences if I get this wrong?
所以在外面，你可能在想，嗯，权威人物，为什么我总是 shuts down？
And so on the outside, might be thinking, okay, you know, like, so an authority figure, like, why am I always shutting down?
我身上到底发生了什么？
What's going on for me?
你的大脑在告诉你，这不安全。
Your brain is telling you this isn't safe.
如果这个人不认可你，那就意味着不安全。
If you're not approved by this person, it's not safe.
出问题了。
Something's wrong.
因此，你进入了冻结的状态。
And so you're moving into this place of freeze.
好的。
Okay.
我该如何向伴侣解释我的冻结反应，而他们却认为我只是在回避或冷漠？
How do I explain the freeze response to a partner who thinks I'm just being avoidant or I'm disengaged?
这是个很好的观点。
So that's a good point.
对吧？
Right?
我的冻结反应可能会让别人觉得我不在乎，或者不想处理这个问题，这可能会让他们感到非常受伤。
So, like, my freeze response might make someone feel like I don't care or I don't wanna deal with this, and that can be really hurtful to them.
是的。
Yes.
通常，触发冻结反应的最大因素是关系的节奏。
Often, the biggest triggers to the freeze response is more the relational tempo.
比如说话太快、问题接二连三，或者对方语气提高、面部表情紧张，又或者逼你立刻回答。
So fast talking and rapid fire questions, someone having a louder tone or tight facial expressions, someone like pressuring you to answer right now.
所以放慢对话的节奏，可能比任何完美的措辞都更有效。
So slowing the pace of the conversation can be more effective than any perfect wording.
我觉得有趣的是，人们经常问，我该怎么回应这种情况？
I think you know what's so interesting is so often people will say, like, how should I respond to this?
人们总是在琢磨该怎么措辞。
Like, people are always trying to figure out the wording.
是的。
Yeah.
所以关系的节奏，人际的节奏，
And so the relationship tempo, the relational tempo,
这非常不同。
that's very different.
对吧？
Right?
但它传达了非常多的信息。
But it communicates so much.
对吧？
Right?
这就是我们所有不直接沟通的交流方式。
Like, this is all the ways we communicate without the direct communication.
人们总在寻找内容。
People are looking for the content.
对吧？
Right?
我说什么，而不是过程和你表达的方式
What do I say as opposed to the process and how you say
它。
it.
是的。
Yeah.
而你表达的方式往往重要得多。
And how you say it often matters so much more.
我的意思是，内容很重要。
I mean, the content's important.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
但我们所说的能治愈冻结的關係，是一种冲突有稳定模式的关系。
But a relationship that heals freeze is one where conflict has a reliable pattern is what we're saying.
对吧？
Right?
就像你提到的放缓、没有惩罚的停顿，以及恢复和修复。
That, like, there's the slowdown you talked about, the pause without punishment, and the return and repair.
对。
Right.
没错。
Exactly.
所以，如果你在一段关系中意识到，嘿，我通常在某些话题上会封闭自己。
And so if you're in a relationship and you're recognizing, hey, I typically shut down around it could be around certain conversations.
也可能是当你伴侣表达自己的方式让你感到不适时。
It could be around the way your partner is expressing themselves.
你需要在争论或讨论压力话题之外，主动找伴侣谈谈，说：嘿，听我说。
For you to go to your partner outside of the moment when you when you're in this argument or whatever talking about something stressful and say, hey, listen.
我注意到，当我们谈论金钱时，我更容易变得封闭。
I've recognized that when we're talking about money, I tend to shut down a little bit more.
当我们谈论任何让你感到不舒服的事情时，我也会更容易退缩。
When we're talking about anything that makes you uncomfortable, I tend to shut down a little more.
所以我希望参与到对话中。
So and I want to engage in the conversation.
能够参与这场对话对我来说很重要。
It's important to me to be able to engage in this conversation.
因此，我想和你一起探讨，我需要哪些工具才能真正全身心地投入对话。
And so I wanna talk through, like, what tools I might need in order to be fully engaged in the conversation.
我可能需要暂时离开一下，然后再回来继续对话，这样我才能重新投入。
I might need to step away for for a little bit and come back to the conversation so that I can reengage.
对吧？
Right?
这样我可以让自己平静下来，重新参与对话，以更有成效的方式交流。
So I can ground myself and get back into the conversation and talk through things in the way in so that it's it's productive.
或者如果你的伴侣有时会提高音量，而这种方式让你感到不堪重负，对吧？
Or if your partner tends to, like, raise their voice in some way, if that overwhelms your system, Right?
即使他们说的内容并不具有攻击性，
Even if they're saying something that isn't aggressive, the
而是他们说话的方式。
way in which they say it.
是的。
Yes.
有些人就是这样的，没错。
Some people just have, like like right.
我这个人声音比较大，气场也比较强。
Like, I'm someone who has a louder voice and has a larger demeanor.
是的。
Yep.
你明白我的意思吧？
Even you know what I mean?
有时候我女儿会说：别吵架了。
There'll be times my daughter was like, stop fighting.
我的丈夫则说：我们只是在说话而已。
I mean, my husband were like, we're just talking.
对。
Right.
这其实就是我们彼此交流的方式。
Like, this is just like how we talk to each other.
我们说话时会用手势，声音也比较大。
Like, we're using our hands and we have louder voices.
我是这样的。
I am.
但她的神经系统感觉像是在对抗，因为我女儿是个非常安静、有计划的人。
But her nervous system feels like it's fighting because my daughter is a very, like, quiet planner.
你明白我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
她叫珍。
She's Jen.
所以这可能会让人感到不堪重负。
And so that can feel so overwhelming.
因此你必须了解自己和你所爱的人。
So you have to be aware of yourself and your loved ones.
对吧？
Right?
就是关心别人。
Like, it's giving a shit about other people.
是的。
Yes.
而且你需要了解自己，也要让你的伴侣真正了解你，真正明白这一点——我不会说出来的。
And and for your for you to know yourself and for you to let your partner really know you and really understand this is this I'm not gonna say it.
说吧。
Say
说出来。
it.
我不会做的。
I'm not gonna do it.
说吧。
Say it.
你要了解自己。
For you to know yourself.
并成长自己。
And grow yourself.
好的。
Okay.
等等。
Wait.
我们得去《亲爱的伊文·珍》。
We have to get to Dear Evan Jen.
这个人就是提交了所有缅因州推荐意见的人吗？
I is this the person who sent in all of the the Maine recommendations?
我不确定，但不管是谁做的。
I'm not sure, but whoever did.
好的。
Okay.
我们之前聊过想去缅因州波特兰，然后有个人发给我们一份详细的指南，列出了所有这些餐厅和景点。
Somebody we talked about wanting to go to Portland, Maine, and then somebody sent us, like, a whole guide of all these restaurants and all these places.
而且我觉得我们今年夏天一定会去。
And, like and I think we're totally gonna do it this summer.
现在我们要去缅因州的波特兰。
Now we're gonna go to Portland, Maine.
而且我要谢谢你，因为你知道，大家都匿名写这些，但天哪，这真是太棒了。
And I I thank you because, you know, everyone writes these things anonymously, but fuck, yeah, that was so cool.
好的。
Okay.
可能是这个人。
It might have been this person.
我完全不知道。
I have no idea.
不是他。
It wasn't.
很可能不是他。
It probably wasn't.
好吧。
Alright.
无论如何，非常感谢你们收听并帮助我们提供新的建议。
Well, either way, thank you so much for listening and helping us fresher recommendations.
好的。
Okay.
亲爱的Em和Jen，我非常喜欢你们的播客。
Dear Em and Jen, I love your podcast.
我自己是一名治疗师，我发现你们的话题在个人和专业上都非常有帮助。
I'm a therapist myself, and I find your topics so helpful both personally and professionally.
你们非常接地气，真正具备将复杂的治疗话题变得易于理解、洞察和实践的天赋。
You're so relatable and have a true gift for taking complicated therapeutic topics and making them easy to see, understand, and work on.
感谢你们所做的一切。
Thank you for all you do.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我已经结婚十四年了，有两个年幼的儿子。
I have been married for fourteen years, and I have two young sons.
过去一年，我开始意识到我丈夫表现出很多边缘型人格障碍的行为特征。
This past year, I've started to realize that my husband has a lot of borderline personality disorder type behavior.
真有意思，即使我们从事这份工作，却还是看不到自己家人身上的这些问题。
It's funny how you don't see these things in your own family even though we do this for a living.
总之，我最近一直很挣扎。
Anyway, I've been really struggling.
我想知道你们对如何与患有边缘型人格障碍的人建立关系有什么看法？这种关系是什么样的？如何识别它带来的挑战？为什么传统的恋爱建议在这里不起作用？我们又该怎么做？
I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how to have a relationship with someone with BPD, what it looks like and how to recognize a challenge it presents, why traditional relationship advice doesn't work, and what we do instead.
这适用于任何类型的关系，不一定是浪漫关系。
Could be for any kind of relationship, not necessarily just romantic.
所以我想先说，边缘型人格障碍的许多特征其实源于创伤、复杂创伤和悲伤。
So I'm going start out by saying, often traits of borderline personality disorder are trauma and complex trauma and grief.
因此，当边缘型人格障碍的特征也可能出现在经历过创伤的人身上时，要做出准确的诊断就非常困难。
And so it's very hard to do a diagnosis of BPD when we when the traits and characteristics of BPD can also be used for someone who has experienced, trauma.
我们常常忽略这一点，尤其是当你丈夫可能有一些他自己并不认为是创伤的经历，但这些经历却可能对他的神经系统造成了创伤。
And I think we often miss it because especially there's a possibility that your husband has things that they don't consider trauma, that maybe was traumatizing to their nervous system.
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