2025年埃森桌游展22款最佳游戏！

但如果他们赢了这轮，就由他们选择。嗯哼。如果输了这轮，则由其他玩家

But if they won the trick, they choose. Uh-huh. And if they if you lose the trick, the other players

所以你可能会进入这种连胜状态，可以制定精确计划：我要这样赢下这轮，再那样赢下那轮。但这时你会面临信息不足的问题，因为还有另外两个人

So you kind of enter into these winning streaks, I suppose, where you can have an exact plan. I'm gonna win this in this way and then win this in this way. But then you're running on a bit of an information deficit because there's two other people

狠狠教训你。所以，这实际上是在鼓励你要有这样的心态：我必须赢四局。因此，在这些对局中，我要全胜然后故意输掉。但是，嗯，这样做的话，你就失去了对游戏的控制。

beat you up. So, really encourages you to basically be like, I need to win four. So, out of these, I'm gonna win all of them and then try and lose. Like, but then Mhmm. Doing that, you're losing control of the game.

没错。理想情况下，你希望胜负交替进行，但这也不是最理想的状态。我们曾有过一些精彩时刻。很快你就会深入心理博弈的部分，基本上就是在耍弄对方队伍。我有次玩得很开心，递出两张牌问：'我该收回哪一张呢？'

Right. So you kind of ideally, you want to be kind of winning and losing a bit back and forth, but that's not ideal either. We had some wonderful times with it. Quite quickly, you just dive into the matter of mind games of like basically tricking the other team. I had a lovely time offering these two cards and being like, which of these should I take back?

嗯。其实心里知道其中一张看起来是最佳选择。比如，把那张还给他们。我们可不想让他们拿到那张牌。但这其实是个陷阱。

Mhmm. Knowing that one of them seemed like the the ideal choice. Like, give them that one back. We don't want them having that one. But that was a trick.

他们以某种方式把我想留的牌还给了我，而他们直到几轮后才恍然大悟：'天啊，我们干了什么？'说实话玩起来非常刺激，我最喜欢的是扮演大女巫——那个主导游戏的人，而且每一轮都由你领出牌。嗯，你永远不会放弃领出权。

You they've given me back the card that I wanted in a way that I was like, they didn't realize that until a few rounds later when they went, oh god, what have we done? It's honestly very exciting to play and what I love about it is that like being the big witch, being the person who is leading the game, and you lead every trick regardless. Mhmm. You never pass on lead.

哦，这很有趣。

Oh, that's fun.

是啊。感觉既痛快又紧张。对。这种权力动态很微妙——你既觉得自己强大又渺小。

Yeah. It feels really good, but also really scary. Yeah. It has that lovely power dynamic of like you feel like but also like, oh. You feel big and small.

我猜这个角色是轮换的吧？这样挺好。比如整场游戏应该不会出现某人一直当大女巫的情况，对吧？你们会进行多轮游戏，我是...

And I guess it's also something that gets passed around which is nice. Like, I imagine across game you're not gonna have a situation where someone is just always big witch. Right? You're playing multiple rounds on I'm

竞标开始时有一张药水卡可以翻倍数字，就是下一位玩家可以开始竞标。所以基本上意味着表面上手牌最好的人要等到最后才能出价。这样其他人就可以决定是否让他们得手。说实话，整个机制设计得非常巧妙紧凑。

the bidding starts there's a a potion card that doubles a number which is the thing like whenever you whoever has that is the next player gets to start the bidding. So it basically means that like the person who ostensibly has the best hand Mhmm. Like doesn't get to bid until last. So other people can be like, I'm not gonna let it get to them if they want to. Honestly, the whole thing was just very smart, very tight.

卡牌上有精美的蚀刻艺术图案，营造出非常传统的女巫氛围。是的，这游戏太棒了，可以说是我很久以来玩过最好的小型卡牌游戏之一。我们立刻就玩得很投入，策略性很强。

It had this lovely kind of etched artwork on it which gave it a very kind of traditional witchy vibe. Yeah. It was just it was great. Like, it was honestly one of the best small boxcar games I've played in a long time. And we immediately got really mean with it, really smart.

游戏的可预测性让玩家会有'糟糕'的顿悟时刻。作为首席女巫，还能通过泄露他人手牌来推测他们的具体牌型。然后就是纯粹的策略博弈——如何布局让他们无法击败我？除非他们真的很厉害。

And it being so knowable that players have that moment where they suddenly go, oh, no. Yeah. And also being able to, as a lead witch, like, leak people's cards out to work out exactly what their hands are Mhmm. And then playing a game of pure, like, well, how can I shape this to make it so they can't beat me? Unless It's they want them really cool.

我想玩这个游戏。

I wanna play it.

真的超想玩。但我没有这游戏，我想买一套。给我们一套吧。

It's really I wanna play it. I don't have it. I I I wanna get a copy of that game. Give us a copy. Yeah.

能给我一张吗？那张撕得很有艺术感。

Can I have can I have one? That's nicely torn.

好的，请给我一张。我们要不要聊聊另一个S级游戏？我觉得我们对《大道》都有同感。

Nice, please. I'd like one, please. Should we talk about another s tier game potentially? I think we both feel this way about avenue.

这让人困惑，因为你画了一个巨大的叉号在上面，让它看起来不太好。你在试图隐藏你认为糟糕的艺术作品。

Which is confusing because you've drawn a massive big x across it which makes it look like it's not good. You're trying to hide what you believe to be terrible artwork.

确实不太好。

It's really not good.

不，不，不，不。我觉得挺好的。

No. No. No. No. I think it's fine.

太糟糕了。

It's awful.

画动物很难。它们本应

Drawing animals is hard. They're meant

是动物的轮廓，还有一条路，但路应该弯曲环绕，但我画得太糟糕了。

to, like, be the outlines of the animals and there's, a road, but then the road is meant to, like, curve around, but, oh, I've just done such a bad job.

画动物很难。你一开始就看到我试着画手了。这是真的。

It's hard to draw animals. You saw me trying to draw a hand at the start of this. This is true.

这简直是一场噩梦。

It's a nightmare.

好的。我会把它重新盖好。但我想先说清楚。

Okay. I'll I'll cover it back up. But I just wanna be clear.

这让我感觉好多了。

Makes me feel a lot better.

这个游戏很棒。

The game is great.

这个游戏确实很好玩。这是一个双人游戏，我切你选的模式，你们是两名动物特工，在这个类似街区的场景中试图抓住对方。有点像美国郊区的环境，但每个人都是巨大的狼鸽子或狐狸。基本上，两位玩家之间有一个小棋盘，有点像一个小型赛道，上面有若干格子。

The game is really good. This is a two player, I cut you choose game where you are You cut you. Are two animal secret agents trying to catch one another in this sort of neighborhood setting. It's kinda like an American suburban setting, but everyone's like a giant wolf pigeon or fox. And essentially, you have a tiny board between the two players that's kinda like a little racetrack with a certain number of spaces.

假设每个玩家之间有五个格子。所以它像一个环形。本质上，你要做的就是给对手提供两张牌，一张正面朝上，一张正面朝下。他们会选择其中一张牌拿走，可以是正面朝上的或朝下的那张。

Let's say five spaces between each player. So, it's like a loop. And essentially, what you are trying to do is you offer your opponent two cards. One face up and one face down. They will choose one of those cards to take, either face up or face down one.

你拿走他们没选的那张牌，然后结算效果。牌上的数字可能会让你移动，比如额外+2，这样你就能沿着环形靠近他们；或者会减少移动点数，意味着你会后退更接近对手。而你要做的就是

You take whatever one they didn't choose, and then you resolve them. And those numbers on the cards will either give you some movement, so they'll give you like an extra plus two, so you'll move around the ring closer towards them, or they'll subtract movement, which means you go backwards closer to your opponent. And you're just trying

超越对手。基本上就是一个小循环，你要在他们追上你之前赶上对方。

to lap the other person. It's basically a little tiny loop, and you wanna catch up to the other person before they catch up to you.

没错。但游戏中还有一些非常有趣的小变化，这副牌里所有的卡牌会随着你收集的数量变多而增强、削弱或改变。比如，你抽到的第一个双面间谍会让你后退一格，这很糟糕。第二个双面间谍则能让你前进六格，哇哦。

Exactly. But then there are some really interesting little wrinkles in the game, where within this deck, all of these cards kind of get stronger or weaker or change the more of them that you have. So, for example, the first double agent that you pull moves you back a space, which bad. Not good. The second double agent, you get six movement Woah.

这太疯狂了。你快速移动着，第三个及之后的双面间谍又会让你后退一格。再退一格。又退一格。继续退。

Which is crazy. You're zipping around, and the third one and everyone after that, you get minus one again. Another minus one. Minus one again. Minus one again.

但还有些卡牌能直接让你赢得游戏。比如密码破译者。如果你集齐三个密码破译者，收集时它们不会产生任何效果。

But there's also these cards that just flat out win you the game. There is a code breaker. There are If you get three code breakers, they do nothing when you collect them.

是的。但如果你集齐全部三个，

Yep. But if you get all three,

你就直接赢了。类似的还有亡命徒卡，它们对移动很有帮助，但如果你集齐三个，

you just win. And there's similarly daredevils. They're really good for movement, but if you get all three of them You lose. You

你就输了。这设计真的很棒。哦，非常精妙。

lose. And it's just it's really nice. Oh, it's very good.

真的很棒。非常不错。更像是...它两者兼具

It's really good. It's very good. It's more ish. It's it's both like

感觉就像是，哦，不知道会发生什么。但与此同时，你实际上拥有一定程度的主动权，因为可选牌并不多，你可以看着它说：听着，如果我们选那张未知的牌

it feels kinda like, oh, I don't know what anything could happen. But at the same time, like, you have a a real degree of nobility there in the fact that there aren't that many different cards and you can look at it and go, well listen, if we take the unknown one

嗯

Mhmm.

比如选这张，最坏情况他们也只能前进三格。嗯。而我们领先他们四格。对。所以他们这轮追不上我们

Like or take this one, worst case scenario, they can like move forward three spaces. Mhmm. And it's like we are four spaces ahead of them. Yeah. So like they're not gonna catch us this round.

这就像是...基本上允许自己试探：能让对手跟在我们身后多近？嗯。同时又不造成实质威胁。对。而后期通常会很有趣，因为你永远不会遇到那种翻开牌后惊呼'糟了被你抓到了'的时刻。第一局就是那样

And it's that thing of like basically allowing yourself to be like how far can we let the person run right behind us Mhmm. Without it being a real problem. Yeah. Whereas then later on usually it's lovely in the fact that you never have that moment where you reveal and it's like oh no you got me. First game it was like that.

但之后就会变成这样：你彻底完蛋了。对。而且你知道无论选哪张都没用。是的。没错

But then after that, it becomes this thing of like, you're just screwed. Yeah. You're and you know that it doesn't matter which one you pick. Yes. Yeah.

因为要么你选那张他们会飞速追上你，要么选另一张他们会凑齐第三张牌直接获胜，诸如此类。这很有趣。确实像真正的间谍游戏。对。就像把某人逼入绝境。嗯。让他们无路可走。对

Because it's like, either you take that one and they're gonna run really fast and catch you or you take the other one and they're gonna get the third card in the set and they're gonna win or whatever or like, you know, And that's lovely. It's like it does feel like a real spy game Yeah. Of you like basically cornering someone Mhmm. Being like you're out of moves. Yeah.

你已经无路可走了。而且游戏时长刚好

You're out of moves. And it lasts exactly as

完全根据需要而定。因为有些游戏会很快结束，比如你成功虚张声势，让对手落入陷阱被直接抓住。也有些游戏会拖得稍久些，但最终仍会有明确的结局。嗯，毕竟游戏设置了即时胜负条件。

long as it needs to as well. Because you can have these games that are over really quickly where you just like manage to, you know, bluff your opponent into a space where you just manage to catch them straight away. Or you can play these games that kind of like draw out a little bit longer, but they still have quite a definitive end to them. Mhmm. Because you have these kind of immediate win and lose conditions.

我们的游戏从未以默认终局方式结束——就是那种'如果届时仍未决出胜负，就执行这个'的情况。每次都是有人被抓到。没错，总是落入某种陷阱。这非常有趣。

Never has one of our games ended in the like default endgame thing where it's like, if you've not resolved the game by then, do this. They always end in someone getting caught Yeah. In some kind of trap. And that's delightful.

是啊，特别是当你试图构建这些机制时。就像你之前说的，第一次触发时是减一，第二次就变成加六。对。

Yeah. Especially when you're trying to build up these things. Like you say early on, like the fact that the first time you have one of these, minus one. The second one you get, six. Yeah.

这意味着游戏核心在于利用你以为的灵活性——不会立即被抓——来构建一个随时可以爆发的局面。嗯，然后你就准备就绪

It means a lot of the game is about using the flexibility you think you have of not getting caught straight away to build out a tableau that is just ready to pop. Mhmm. And then you're ready

开始行动

to go around

这时候无论你出什么牌都能获益

where it's like doesn't matter what you play. Gonna benefit.

特别是因为你手上有这四张牌，你可以稍微

Especially because you have this hand of four cards, you can kind

提前规划一下，而且游戏机制允许

of plan ahead just a little bit, and there's a mechanic that

你弃牌抽牌，这意味着你可以过滤掉某些牌，比如他们试图收集所有密码破译者，但我知道我已经

lets you discard to draw as well, which means you can filter out certain cards from the game and be like, actually, they're trying to collect all the code breakers, but I know that I've

掌握了更多可能性信息。说实话，这有点像《三女巫》的感觉。但作为双人游戏，牌组足够精简，全局掌控感很好，让你觉得有足够信息做出合理猜测。对，就是猜测可能发生的情况。

more knowledge about what's possible. It's honestly, like, again, kind of in a similar space to Three Witches, I think. But being a two player game of of having a small enough deck of cards and a good enough oversight of everything that you really feel like you've got enough information to make some really guesses Yeah. Yeah. On what could be happening.

当猜测成真时，感觉

And when they pan out, wonderful. Feels

太棒了。

so good.

另外这个小扩展包确实完善了游戏。对，效果非常好。

Also, the little expansion like I thought fleshed out the game Yeah. Like wonderfully.

它增加了小老鼠作为额外的套装，这些老鼠会坐在你的小房子上，可以移动一到两个格子。

It adds little mice that are an extra suit and the mice kinda like sit on your little house and they can move around one or two spaces.

就靠老鼠。

Just by mice.

它们像是另一种被抓的方式，但只有当你落在特定格子时才会触发。

They're like another way of getting caught but only if you land

我刚才只是在说游戏里的小扩展包。

I was only talking about the little expansion in the game.

哦对，黑市扩展。小市场卡牌，当你落在特定格子时可以获得黑市卡牌，这些卡牌有疯狂的效果。最棒的是它让整个棋盘更有层次感了。

Oh yeah. Black market expansion. Little market cards if you land on certain spaces then you get black market cards that have crazy effects. And the nice thing about that is that it just gives the whole board a little bit more texture. Yeah.

现在你看卡牌时不再只关注它们能移动多少步来抓人。而是要考虑它们能移动多少步，以及能否到达黑市拿一张能起到保护作用的卡牌。

You're now looking at cards not as like how many spaces can they move just because they're catching. Yes. It's how many spaces can they move and can they get to a black market, take a card that does something really safe

玩这个的时候因为我们都能看到商店。你能看到商店然后想，如果他们拿到那张卡牌，游戏就结束了。我不想那样做因为他们可能会拿到那张牌。这增加了推理的元素。老实说，确实如此。

to play that because we can both see the the shop. You can see the shop and you go, if they get that card, it's game over. Yeah. I don't wanna do that because they might take that and yeah. It adds another element of like deduction Honestly, just really Yep.

多汁又美味，很棒。可能比这个还要好。我不确定，真的不确定。

Like juicy, delightful. It's good. Like, maybe better than this. I don't know. I don't know.

顶级享受。我们得考虑一下。最后可能要做些调整。看看进展如何再说。

Supreme tear. We'll have to think about it. We might have some shuffling around at the end. We'll see we'll see how we get on.

Matt，我要带大家从巅峰跌入谷底。可能这次我真的属于少数派。

Matt, I wanna take us from such giddy heights to some low lows. And maybe I'm actually like really in the minority for this one.

他们看不到我们在巅峰欢跃。哇哦。看在上帝份上快下来吧。这是首老歌的梗，别在意。

They won't see us prancing at such giddy heights. Wow. Come down now for God's sake. This is a reference to an old song. Don't worry about it.

总会有人听懂的。某个地方的某个人。Iron & Wine还是Postal Service的版本？取决于你先听哪个。

Somebody would have got it. Someone out there. Somebody. Iron Oh. Wine Postal Service doesn't know which version you heard first.

这首美丽的歌。我们会得到什么？是搞笑的？有趣的？还是略带失望的？

This beautiful song. What are we gonna have? Are we gonna have something silly? Are gonna have something fun? We have something slightly disappointing?

我要带大家进入略带失望的层级。你那边怎么样

I'm gonna take us down to slightly disappointing tier. How's your

游戏吗，阿玛？这是

game, Ama? This is

很多人都说这款游戏非常棒，他们都很想试试，但我却觉得它有点冷淡。

a game that loads of people said was really good and they were keen to check out and I just found it a little cold.

是的。这是《Recall》，

Yep. This is Recall,

这是继《revive》之后的系列新作，虽然我没玩过前作作为参考。但我玩了《Recall》，这是一款欧洲风格的桌游，你要在一张大地图上放置建筑，让数字上升，然后得分。我们玩了大概三个小时，我完全不知道其他人在做什么，也不在乎。我只专注于自己的引擎和获取更多

which is the next game in a series that started with revive, which I haven't played for reference. But I played Recall and it is a euro game where you place out buildings on a big map and you make numbers go up and you, get points. And we played it for like three hours and I didn't know what anyone else was doing and I didn't care. I was just focused on my own engine and getting more

你知道吧，这就是好游戏的标志。真的，我不想多谈这个，因为我超爱这种感觉。但如果是这种情况，我对这个主题了解得还不够深入。

you know it's it's That's how you know it's the good good. That's how you know it's the good good. Honestly, like, don't wanna be in about that sort thing because I love that. Like Yeah. But if I'm doing that, I don't know enough about the theme exactly here.

如果我玩一个可以自顾自、不用管别人的游戏，我想要的是像《Altiplano》那样的。对吧？我想要那种可以摆弄彩色形状和羊驼的游戏。就想在周日轻松愉快地玩些色彩明快的东西。

If I'm having a game where I'm kinda doing my own thing and ignoring everyone, like, I wanted something like Altiplano. Right? I want something where I'm like doing something with colorful shapes and llamas. Right? I just wanna be like gentle Sunday like cheery colors.

我觉得背景设定大概是后末日题材吧。主题其实不太重要

It's kind of a post apocalyptic deal, I think. Theme didn't really matter

对我来说，后末日题材已经让我感到孤独。我不想被进一步孤立。但

to me. Post apocalypse already makes me feel lonely. I don't I don't wanna be further siloed. But it's

它有几个有趣的系统。比如有个机制是把钥匙插入你的玩家板来激活特定行动，还能升级钥匙让效果更强。还有个类似派系的设定，棋盘上有三个部落，接触它们能获得特殊能力。但都不像某些游戏那样爆炸性或有趣。

it has like a few kind of interesting systems. Like, has this thing where you're slotting in these keys into your little player board to activate certain actions, and you can upgrade those keys to make them a little spicier. It has a kind of setty style thing where there are these three, like, of tribes, I think, on the board. And if you contact them, then you get, like, a special power. But none of them were kind of as, like, explosive or interesting or something like setty.

它们都比较温和。游戏还有个奇特系统，让你在游戏过程中选择要重点达成的终局目标。所有人计分方式相同，但你可以选择在某个类别上额外加分。设计上有很多有趣之处，但我发现这本质上是个让我耗费大量精力理解规则的解谜游戏。

They were just sort of mild Yeah. It has a sort of strange system where you are, during the game, choosing which end game objectives you're gonna double down on. So everyone is gonna score in the same ways, but you can say, I'm gonna, like, score plus one, score a little bit extra for this particular category. And all of it was like, there was lots of interesting design going on there. I just found it fundamentally a game where I just sort of I was spending so much energy understanding the puzzle Yeah.

研究各种规则如何互动让我整局游戏都没关注过对手。所以对我来说这游戏只能算C级。虽然大家都说它

And how the different rules interacted that I wasn't actually looking at any of my opponents for the entire game. Yeah. So for me, recall is a bit of a bit of a c tier That's fair. For me. Despite everyone saying it

会很好且评分很高。但毕竟只玩过一次的局限性？不过那一次就玩了整整三小时。

was gonna be really good and pretty high. What's the caveat of like one play? But then one play that was a good three hours.

确实挺长的。我感觉这是埃森展很多游戏的普遍趋势。

One that was pretty long. And I feel like it's just a broad trend of these. Some A lot of games at Essen.

这就是我们之前说的那种游戏吧——因为要同时处理太多事情，玩起来过于耗费精力，让你根本没空思考是否真的喜欢。对，你只能拼命记住所有规则。

Is this what we were talking about like having games that are almost so overwhelming to just concentrate and play them because you're juggling so many things that like it feels really like involving. Yes. But actually like you don't have time to think about whether you even like it. Yeah. You're just like trying to hold it in your head.

你只是试图理解它。这款游戏给我的感觉就是有太多事情在同时发生。有太多不同的系统，它们都是非常有趣的小型复杂系统，但这意味着我并没有真正以有意义的方式与任何人互动。我只是偶尔看看棋盘，然后想，哦，他们拿走了我想要的东西，而我甚至不知道他们是否知道我想要它。

You're just trying to understand it. And that was kind of this what this game was to me is that there was just so much going on. There were so many different systems and they were all very interesting little noodley systems but they meant that I wasn't really interacting with anyone in kind of a meaningful way. I would just occasionally look at the board and go, oh, they've taken the thing that I wanted and I didn't know if they even knew that I wanted it.

也许这是托莱多的一种无脊椎动物特性，就像，也许我们只是大脑不够大。那可能是更低级或更高级，如果他们大脑更大的话，那我就不知道了。是的，我不知道。

And maybe this is an invertebrity of Toledo, of like, maybe we're just not big brain Then that's lower or higher and if they're big brain then that's I don't know. Yeah. I don't know.

根据大脑尺寸调整。

Adjust according to brain size.

我们要不要

Should we

做一个类似于回忆的逆向版本？塞耶沼泽。哦对，塞耶沼泽。

do one that is kind of the inverse of recall? Thayer's swamp. Oh yeah. Thayer's swamp.

说到塞耶沼泽，我一开始的态度就是无所谓。是的。因为再次强调，我认为抵消这种炒作很重要，否则我们就会陷入无限的炒作循环。

Now Thayer's swamp, I went into this being like whatever. Yeah. Just because, again, I I think it's important to like counteract that hype because otherwise we end up in an infinite hype cycle.

费尔沼泽被炒得神乎其神，我说过。

Feyre's Swamp was phenomenally hyped, I said.

人们当时都疯了。他们完全失去理智。因为某种错误导致存货稀少，大家都说这东西好，结果就因为它稀缺变得更抢手。正因如此人们都为之疯狂。

People were losing their minds. They were going crazy. And that's because like there was a mistake of some sort which meant that like there just wasn't many copies available. So people had said it was good and then it was good and very scarce. And so because of that people were losing it.

某种程度上我能理解。这种展会就是人们排队抢购限量商品。我不想扫人兴致。嗯。如果你对买到酷炫或稀有物品感到兴奋，那就去吧。

Which is like, I get it. Like there's a degree to which these cons where people go and buy things and queue up and get in there early. I don't wanna yuck someone's yum. Mhmm. If you're excited about getting something cool or rare, do it.

但从我们这些想更客观评价事物的人角度来看，我总对这些热潮持怀疑态度——五年后还会有人讨论这个吗？想想十年前的Jane Con，当时人人都说火爆。现在回头看那些游戏，你会觉得：就这？它们后来怎样了？

But from our perspective, as people who wanna be, like, critical of things in a in a more flat way or try to at least, I'm always a bit skeptical of these things when it's like, is it really is someone gonna talk about this in five years? Because you know, I think about Jane Con like from ten years ago and everyone was like, this is so hot. If you look at some of those games down in retrospect, you'd like, really? What happened to them? Like, what?

就是那个让所有人疯狂的东西。但它确实很棒。

That was the one that everyone was losing their minds But this is actually really good.

它确实很棒，很有趣。这让我有点恼火，因为宣传太夸张了，我本来想说它被过度吹捧了。但其实...

It's actually really good. It's fun. Which I kind of was almost like a little bit annoyed about because it was like so hyped that I always wanted to be a bit like, well, it was overhyped. It wasn't that good. But it

它确实挺有趣的。我玩得很开心。这是Terra Mystica团队做的游戏。Terra Mystica。

was it was pretty fun. It's pretty fun. I had a lot of fun with this. So, is a game that's made by the people who did Terra Mystica. Terra Mystica.

都是很久以前的事了。

All that time ago.

《神秘大地》是经典之作。我们超爱这款游戏。真心觉得它美妙绝伦、精彩非凡。这款游戏有着相同的能量感。嗯。

And Terra Mystica is a classic. We love that. I really think that is beautiful, wonderful, fantastic. This has a lot of the same energy to it. Mhmm.

没错。试图用六边形占领地图。嗯。但不完全一样。《神秘大地》更倾向于尽可能塞满所有空间。

Yeah. Trying to take over a map with hexagons. Mhmm. But not completely. Terra Mystica is very much about like, let's just cram as much in there as we can.

是的。除了我们容不下任何东西。对。而这款游戏某种程度上更刻薄。我们当时在改造一个巨大的沼泽池塘，是沼泽对吧？

Yes. No room for anything but us. Yeah. Whereas this was somehow meaner. In the we were turning a giant like swampy pond, a swamp, but it was swamp?

不过我觉得更像湖泊。沼泽。对。我是这么想的。

It was more lake y, I thought, though. A swamp. Yeah. Thought.

那里相当潮湿。基本上都是水。

It was pretty wet. It was it was mostly water.

我不清楚具体区别。我不是

I don't know the distinction. I'm not

理科生。看得出来。

a science boy. I can tell.

但我们没有填满它，反而制造了这些糟糕的小河和沟渠。

But rather than filling it up, we were just creating these horrible little rivers and canals.

是的。

Yes.

还把人们困在这些地狱般的迷宫里。

And blocking people in these labyrinths of hell.

对。这个游戏的机制有点像工人放置类游戏。准确说就是工人放置游戏。你要把小小的工人放在这些小格子上，然后执行格子上的行动。但很多行动都涉及在沼泽里移动小船，最终建立定居点——虽然建好后作用不大。

Yeah. The the way the game works is sort of a worker placement game. Well, is a worker placement game. You're putting your little little workers on these little spaces and then you are doing the things on those spaces. But a lot of them involve moving your little boats around this swamp, ultimately building out settlements, which don't really do that much when you build them.

不。但它们会成为得分途径。因为小船还能用来捕鱼，这里有个很棒的机制：不同钓鱼点在不同回合会激活。这意味着你不仅要考虑船只初始位置，还要规划它们接下来的移动路线。

No. But they will be ways of getting points. Because the other thing you can do with your boats, you can go fishing and there's a lovely mechanic where different fishing spots are kind of active in different rounds. Means you're not just thinking about where your boats are initially, you're thinking about where they're gonna be for the next

某种程度上，你是在放置这些六边形板块把水域变成建筑，但其实它们和Terramistica里的房屋机制很像——消耗资源建造这些东西后，它们会从玩家版图底部（或顶部）移除。没错。然后解锁新内容。新能力。新能力或者新的维持类效果。

a way, you're putting these hexes onto the board to turn water into stuff, but actually, they're kind of the same as Terramistica's houses the fact that you're spending these resources to to build these things. And then, by doing so, you're removing them from the bottom of your or top of your player board Yes. And then unlocking new things. New abilities. New abilities or new like upkeep stuff.

是的。这和Terramistica非常相似，就像'如果我建造这些东西，就能获得大量特殊魔法收入'。

Yeah. Which is very similar to Terramistica of being like, oh, if I go and build out these things, then I'm gonna get loads more special magical income.

对。没错。就是这样。所以你获取它们是为了那些奖励。但同时，当人们去钓鱼时，他们需要把鱼卖给某人，这意味着定居点在这里有双重用途。

Right. Yeah. Exactly. So you're getting them for those bonuses. But also, when people go fishing, they have to sell their fish to someone, which means that's where the settlements have a sort of double purpose.

因为你可以把鱼给自己的定居点，这样鱼会转化为分数；或者你可以把鱼给别人，这样你能获得金钱来建造更多定居点，但对方会得到分数。

Because you can either give fish to your own settlements, that means they get turned into points, or you can give them to other people, which gives you money to build more settlements, but it gives them points.

是的。然后还有‘也许’。

Yes. And then there's Maybe.

‘也许’。还有

Maybe. There's

这种非常有趣的最终形态。对。

this really interesting sort of eventually. Yeah.

没错。要知道。但还有种非常引人入胜的达摩克利斯之剑式机制，就是这个‘庆祝’行动——你可以去某个地方举行庆祝活动，根据庆祝规模获得大量分数，并把别人的鱼转化为分数。因为游戏结束时，所有格子上的鱼都会自动计分。所以我们玩的时候，我经常说‘我要在这里庆祝’。

Yeah. Know. But then there's a really fascinating sort of like sort of Damocles that hangs over it as well, which is this celebrate action, which is you can go somewhere and you can have a celebration, which gives you loads of points depending on how big the celebration is and will turn people's fish into points. So the person who does it that that because everything that is a fish on a tile will turn into points at the end of the game anyway. So, there were multiple times during our game where I went, I'm gonna celebrate here.

尽管这样会让马特得到七分。是的。我能得五分。而他反正都能拿到分数。

Even though it gets Matt like seven points Yep. I get five. And he was gonna get points anyway.

反正这事迟早会发生，所以我不如也参与进来。对，没错。而且我觉得挺有趣的。虽然主题表达可能不如英文版那么明显。

It's like, it's gonna happen anyway. So, I might as well get in on this. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's fun. It didn't necessarily come through in the theme in the same way that I think in English.

我真的很喜欢英文版里的派对元素。对，那种感觉就像被动攻击型的'嘿，放轻松点老兄'。明明刚和他们打了好几轮，突然就说'我们开派对吧'，现在你没法跟我打了。

I really love the the party thing in English. Yeah. Being like, ah, it just feels like a passive aggressive like, hey, be cool, man. After you've just gone to war with them for rounds and rounds and suddenly you're like, we're having a party though. You can't fight me now.

你在开玩笑吗？对，开什么玩笑？而这个版本没有那种感觉。但有个不错的点在于：如果他们能独占派对好处，凭什么让他们举办派对？

And, are you kidding me? Yeah. Are you kidding me? Whereas this, like, it didn't quite have that. But there was something nice about like, why should I let them throw the party if they're gonna get all the party

举办派对得分。

throw the party points.

这里面还有个很妙的矛盾点：要想通过举办派对得分，你需要把图腾柱搬到岛上。对。但每次搬图腾柱到新岛都会让岛变大，嗯。这会让在岛上建造更多东西的成本大幅提高。是的。

There's a really nice, like, weirdness in that as well in the fact that really to get points for throwing the party, you wanted this totem pole to island. Yep. But every time you move the totem pole to a new island, it made the island bigger Mhmm. Which made it way more expensive to build more things on that island. Yes.

所以你其实是在加倍投入，试图打造一个梦幻的鱼类派对港口。但这样一来别人就不太会在那个岛上建设了，意味着鱼群不太会去那里，也就减少了人们在你派对岛上开派对的几率。你可能会冒险造出一个无人问津的私人伊比萨岛——谁会想去呢？因为...

So, you're really just doubling down on, like, trying to make it so that you had this wonderful fish party port. But then other people were less likely to be building their islands on that island, which meant it less likely that that island would end up for the fish, which meant it less likely that people would have parties on your party island. You could run a risk of basically making your own private Ibiza that no one wants to come to because it's like, why would we? The thing that

岛屿建设最有趣的地方在于引领潮流。我觉得这个游戏最棒的就是：当你建造定居点或扩建岛屿时，你其实是在用越来越烦人的方式塑造版图。因为FeyreSwamp的规则是只有能航行到的地方才能行动。有些回合你的航行值很高，可以随意穿梭；有时航行值又很低。

was so delightful about the the island building was bearing the lead here because I think the thing we love about this game is the fact that when you build these settlements or when you add to these islands, you're kind of sculpting the board in more and more irritating ways. Because FeyreSwamp has the system where you can only do an action if you can sail your boat to it. In some rounds, you'll have like a really high sailing value. You'll be able to nip around wherever you want. Sometimes you have quite a low sailing value.

但无论如何，如果你建造这些恼人的小运河供人们通行，就会出问题。是的，这样会让导航变得更烦人。而且你不能把岛屿连接起来，所以你可以故意用建造岛屿的方式来阻挡别人。这里有很多非常有趣的共享空间正在形成

But either way, if you make these irritating little canals for people to travel down There's a problem. Making it more annoying to navigate for Yeah. And you can't join the islands together, so you can kind of build out your islands in ways that block other people deliberately. There's just lots of really interesting shared space that's going on

只是在棋盘上建了一堵非常长的墙，这让穿越变得非常困难

just making a really long wall across the board, which made it very difficult to traverse.

我喜欢我开始建那堵墙。我当时想，没错，我就要这么做

I love that I started building that wall. I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this.

然后你就一直延伸它。哦，就是不停地建。我当时想，也许我们会有

And then you'd like carried it forever. Oh, just kept going. I was like, maybe we'll have

一小段墙，但到游戏结束时，它几乎横跨了整个棋盘

a little wall, and then by the end of the game, it almost span from one edge of the board to the other.

那是因为你忘了看鱼汛预报。确实如此。这是个非常简单的系统，每轮都有鱼汛预报显示当前可捕捞的鱼类

It's because you'd forgotten about the fish forecast. I did It's a beautifully simple system of there's a fish forecast of each round these fish are currently available to be fished.

它们正当季

They're in season.

鱼有三种不同的颜色，它们主要分布在这里：左上方、底部两侧以及顶部。对。这意味着在游戏的不同阶段，你需要占据棋盘上的这些区域。

There's three different colors of fish and they're basically like down here in the left top bottom side, right bottom side, and the top. Yeah. And so it means that different parts of the game, you wanna be in those areas of the board.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这不成问题，埃里昂，因为

Which is not a problem, Elion, because

你在那边卖船。是的。

you sell your boats over there. Yeah.

但我告诉你，当有人造了个地狱般的迷宫时，问题就大了。最后一轮看着你惊呼'糟了，蓝鱼'，然后意识到'没错，你根本过不去'。而我的整个策略就是把船造得特别擅长航行，同时在不违反规则的前提下把棋盘搞得寸步难行。

But I tell you what, when someone's made a hellscape labyrinth, it's a problem. It really watching you in the final round go, oh, no. Blue fish. And being like, yeah, there's no way you're getting over there. Whereas my whole strategy was make my boats very good at sailing and then just make the board absolutely impassable to the to the highest degree I could whilst following the rules.

确实。你以绝对优势获胜了。

Yeah. You won by an absolute landslide.

没错。那感觉太棒了。我非常喜欢《沼泽精灵》这个游戏，它既有深度又很紧凑。特别是每回合选卡机制——既给你些小奖励又影响行动顺序——很有《神秘大地》的风格。

I did. It was phenomenal. And I enjoyed Fey of Swamp a lot. I I thought it was that nice position of being crunchy but also quite tight. Fact that it has that Terra Mystica style thing of each round you take a card that gives you a a little good good but also affects the turn order.

是的。

Yes.

也就是说你试图去喜欢它

And the means that you're like trying to like It

它会影响一切，不是吗？

affects everything, doesn't it?

你能

How much you

建造多少，航行多远，以及获得什么收益。这些都非常重要。

can build, how far you can sail, and what benefit you get. They're really important.

那种刺激感，你知道的，在现代游戏设计中往往缺失了，也许我过早放弃而错失了机会，因为把握那个时机非常重要。是的。下一回合。

That juiciness of like, you know, that is kind of not present in a lot of modern game design of of having like, but maybe I do pass early and just lose out because it's so important that I take that Yeah. Next turn.

我就是这么栽的。

That's what happened to me.

要知道，我觉得这真的很酷。我很喜欢。我不确定它是否像《神秘大地》那样具有长期吸引力，嘿，有什么游戏能做到呢？玩得很开心，但我并没有特别想再玩一次。哦，真的吗？

And, you know, I think that that's pretty cool. I liked it. I I don't know if it had like the long term legs of Terra Mystica, hey, what what does? What does? Like, had a great time with it, but I I didn't find myself being like, I wanna play this again Oh, really?

想用不同的方式再玩一次。我现在就想再玩。不过可能只是因为我完全碾压了对手，太残忍了。感觉就像，你知道的，有点吓人。我的任务完成了。

To like do it differently. I wanna play it again like now. But maybe that's just because I I dominated the game so heavily brutal. That I was like, you know, like It scary. My work here is done.

是的。我就像，我现在要去月球生活了。我们该把它放在...这是个

Yes. I I'm like, I'm gonna go live on the moon now. Should we put it It's a

蓝人。你会把它放在哪里？

blue man. Where would you put it?

我觉得它绝对能评个A级。我们要跨领域评价吗？我想是的。

I I think I think it's easily an a. Should we straddle? I think so.

我们该谈谈房间里的大象（指显而易见却被忽视的问题）吗？

Should we talk about the bunny in the room?

让我们来谈谈房间里的大象吧。

Let's talk about the bunny in the room.

这里是维迪卡内克尔吗？

This is Vidicanekel?

维迪卡内克尔，意思是像兔子一样。这是由我们节目的调皮朋友阿尔·斯坦德林展示给我们的，他发现了一款游戏，其盒面艺术极具暗示性，画着兔子们在...制造小宝宝。

Vidicanekel, which means like rabbits. Now, this was shown to us by by the cheeky friend of the show, Al Standering, who found a a game about with a very deeply suggestive box art with rabbits What I making babies.

我只是把我画的封面说出来而已

I'm just saying what I've drawn for the cover

这这这...非常家庭友好。

is is is Very family safe.

实际封面看起来的非常PG版本。是的，这让我...如果你懂的话

Very PG version of what the actual cover looks like Yeah. Which made me If you know

如果你知道交配是什么样子，看到这些兔子的图片就会明白它们在做什么。

what intercourse looks like, you'll see a picture of these rabbits and you go, that's what they're doing.

它们确实是在做那件事。

That is what they are having.

这是个敏捷游戏。一个敏捷游戏。我希望这是个玩笑，但并不是。把兔子扔进盒子里。

It's dexterity game. A dexterity game. Which I wish was a joke, but it's not. Tossing rabbits into a box.

扔进一个纸板箱里。上面有张床的图片。最让人沮丧的是

Into a cardboard box. A picture of a bed on it. The most frustrating

这个游戏最让人意外的是它比它应有的乐趣还要有趣得多。真的。比如，你有两张兔子卡片。母兔子和公兔子。你得把它们扔进两个盒子中的一个，然后有人会洗牌并查看，然后你就按原样把它们分成男女配对发出去。

thing about this game was it was way more fun than it had any right to. It really was. Like, you you you had your your your two rabbit cards. The lady rabbit and the boy rabbit. And you had to toss them into one of the two boxes and then somebody would basically shuffle out the cards and look them and then you would just deal them out as they were into male and female partners.

没错。然后任何配对的组合都会得到一个宝宝。是的。宝宝当然就是分数。宝宝就是分数。

Yeah. And then anyone involved in a matchup gets a baby. Yep. And babies of course are points. Babies are points.

要试着得到七八个宝宝，其实具体几个并不重要。但搞笑的是如果你成功把两只兔子扔进同一个盒子里。对。那它们可能会以同样的方式被抽出来。然后就会出现兄妹配对的情况，得九分。不对，不是九分。

Gotta try and get seven or eight babies new in it doesn't really matter. But it was very funny in the fact that if you ended up two successfully tossing both of your rabbits into the same box Yeah. Then they might get drawn out in the same way. And then a brother situation is a nine in a Yeah. No nine.

哦，九分。意思如果是兄妹配对你就得不到宝宝，这样很好。真的很好。没错。还有个机制是你会拿到这些有栗子的卡片，你可以扔出去试图把其他兔子从

Oh, nine. Which just means you don't get any babies if they're brothers and sisters, which is good. It's really good. Correct. There was also a mechanic involving you getting these like cards that had like conkers on that you could you could throw to try and knock other rabbits out of

对。

the Yeah.

如果喜欢有很多

If like had loads

比如积分之类的东西，而我不想让你得到它们，那我就可以试着用七叶树果打晕你的兔子，这样就能把它们从选择中剔除。

of points or something and I didn't want you to have them, then I could try and knock your rabbit out with a conker which would then take them out of the of the selection.

你可以和其他人的兔子组队。

You could partner up with someone else's rabbit.

是啊。然后你

Yeah. And you

可能会扔出去打晕那里唯一的母兔子。对吧。那样的话，就没人能繁殖小兔子了。

might throw it and knock out the only female rabbit there. Right. Which point, like, nobody is making any babies.

或者你可以建立连接，但那样你就有块树皮可以扔出去偏转七叶树果。就像盾牌一样。

Or you might make the connection, but then you have a piece of bark that you can throw on to deflect the conker. Shields.

一个小盾牌。这让我有点沮丧，因为我觉得如果那些卡片只是些小小的征服标记，你需要把它们投掷到卡片上——那本来可以成为一款相当不错的派对游戏。我既感到沮丧又惊讶，那游戏其实挺有趣的。它比很多同类型的小游戏都要好，这让我很郁闷。

A little shield. Kinda frustrating me because, like, I feel like if those cards had just been little conquer tokens and you had to, toss them onto the card Beautiful. It would have been actually, like, close to being a very good party game. I was I was kind of equally frustrated and astounded that game was pretty fun. It was it was better than a lot of small games of the same size, which is upsetting to me.

这就是它出现在这里的原因。我们当时真的笑得很开心

And that's why it's here. We were really laughing

在我们玩的时候。如果要用我们玩得有多开心来衡量的话，这大概能排到A级。对，说不定能到S级。

while we were playing it. And if we're quantifying this on just how much we how good a time we had, this is like an a tier. Yeah. Maybe even an s tier.

我觉得现实中最多算C级。对。真的。更让我惊讶的是它居然没排到Z级，你懂的，

I think in reality is definitely a c. Yeah. Yes. It's more that like I'm surprised it wasn't like a z, you know,

Z级。

a zed.

对。没错。其实这就像是那种，我能想象它会一直留在收藏里很多很多年，十二年后有人在晚宴后拿出来玩，所有人都会惊呼这

Yeah. Sure. Sure. It was actually like, it's a sort of thing that I can imagine like being something that remains in the collection for years and years and twelve years from now somebody could just get out after the dinner party and everyone would go, what

到底是什么鬼然后全都走光。

the hell is And everyone leaves.

对。所有人都走了因为你又拿出了你那套德国色情兔子游戏。你不能把它归到S级汤姆。真的不行。好。

Yeah. Everyone leaves because you've got out your German sex rabbit game again. You can't put it in s Tom. You can't. K.

你想把它放进兔子专属的S级分类吗？

Do you want to put it in the special s for rabbits tier?

对，我们就把它放进性感特别分类吧。

Yeah. Let's put it in the special sexy k like.

好的，这是R级——兔子专属R级。兔子专属R级。

Alright. It's the r. Rated r for rabbits. Rated r for rabbits

没错，就是

That's yeah. Is a

一个专门为让人困惑的兔子游戏设立的特别分类。与派对游戏无关。与其他任何类型都无关。

special side tier exclusively for rabbit games that leave us feeling confused. Not about party games. Not about anything else.

不，只针对兔子游戏。

No. It's just for rabbits.

不过确实是特工大道让所有人都对

No. Although, it was Agent Avenue that made everyone feel confused about the

其他东西。也许应该放在那里。

other things. Maybe that should go in there.

我们继续吧。说实话，它可以放在旁边。我觉得是Agent Avenue，因为那些暗示性的动物艺术。相当性感。我认为这实际上有点越界了。

Let's move on. Honestly, it could be on the side It's it's I think Agent Avenue, because of some of the the suggestive animal art. It's pretty sexy. It's I think that is actually Kinda crosses r.

是啊。我们要不要聊聊另一款出乎意料的好游戏？我觉得

Yeah. Should we talk about another game that we didn't expect to be good and then I think

事实上可能是同一家发行商。

we might be by the same publisher in fact.

不可能。

No way.

我想是的。哇。因为我觉得这就是为什么两款游戏都挺难找的。好吧。

I think it is. Yeah. Wow. Because I think that's why both games are actually kinda hard to find. Okay.

是一家小发行商。是啊。牛奶。牛奶。喜欢我做的

It's a small publisher and yeah. Milk. Milk. Do like how I made

把它放进小纸盒里，因为那个盒子是

it into a little carton because the box is

纸盒？那个盒子是牛奶纸盒。

a carton? The box was a milk carton.

是的。

It was.

它被叫做...我想是叫含泻药的牛奶，是德国的。对。然后我想这个被节目的好朋友丹妮发现了，因为她超爱牛奶。对。所以我就说好吧。她就说，你必须得试试。

And it was called think it was called milk with laxatives was a German yeah. And again, I think this was picked up by delightful friend of the show Danny because she loves milk. Yeah. So I was like, alright. She was like, you gotta take it.

对，就是牛奶。

Yeah. It's milk.

里面有牛奶成分。

It's got milk in it.

但后来我们发现这是个游戏，里面有牛奶和粪便的筹码，是个卡牌游戏，你要尽可能收集牛奶而不拿到粪便。你不想把粪便混进牛奶里。

But then we realized it was a game where you had milk and poop tokens and it was a card game where you wanted to get as many milks as you could without getting poops. You didn't want to put poop in the milk.

不。那是

No. That's

没有

not

但是

But

如果你真的把粪便放进牛奶里给别人喝，他们喝的不是粪便，而是通便牛奶。说实话，这恰恰是那种通常会让你坐着时发出最深叹息的游戏。同感。同感。我们当时就想，天啊。

if you did put poop in the milk for other people and they drank the milk, they weren't drinking poop, they were drinking laxative milk. That made Honestly, this is exactly the sort of game that usually, like, if you're sitting now with the deepest sigh emanating from your body. Same. Same. And and we were like, oh god.

天哪。她又拿了一盒。说实话，这是个牛奶游戏。我之所以想尝试，纯粹是因为我喜欢那个牛奶盒形状的包装盒。

Oh gosh. She brought another one. Honestly, it's a milk game. I I was enticed to try it just because I like the milk carton shaped box.

这是个

It was a

好盒子。但这其实是个非常棒的游戏。我对自己如此享受其中感到非常惊讶。它真的很棒。

good box. But this was actually a really good game. I was really surprised by how much I enjoyed it. It was great.

是这样的。基本上，游戏规则是桌子中间有几叠牌堆，任何人都可以往里面出牌。每人手里有一组牌，最高点数大概是5左右。嗯哼。

It was. Like, basically, the way that it works is you have these little stacks in the middle of the table of cards that anyone can play into. And you have a range of cards in your hand. Everyone has the same set that's like, maybe the highest is like a five. Mhmm.

最低的是0点，但还有两张泻药牌，这太离谱了。它们的点数像是负3和负7之类的。

The lowest is like a zero, but then you also have these two laxative cards, which is ridiculous. They're like minus three and minus seven or something like that.

轮到你的回合时，你只需要

And all you do on your turn is you

把一张牌面朝下放入其中一个牌堆。对。当某个牌堆有四张牌时，你可以选择喝掉这堆牌而不是出牌。嗯哼。把牌拿到面前，然后计算净得分。

put a card face down into one of those stacks. Yeah. And once it has four cards, maybe, you can choose to drink one of the stacks instead of placing a card. Mhmm. Taking the cards, putting them in front of you, and then scoring the sort of net in points.

没错。所以如果你那堆全是牛奶牌就赚大了，能得20分——如果走运的话。但如果里面有很多泻药牌，你的分数就会很难看。

Yeah. So, if you just had a whole bunch of milk in there, great. You've got like 20 milk points. If you're lucky. But if there's lot of laxatives in there, then you're gonna score really bad.

所以，就这样。

So, yeah.

最后算净分时，你可能会发现那堆里有几个牛奶标记，还不错。是吗？后来更刺激了，因为如果有人无牌可出...嗯哼。

The net of it, you're like, oh, you might have a couple of milk tokens on that. That's pretty good. Was it? Yeah. It then got spicier because if people couldn't play a card Mhmm.

然后他们不得不喝些牛奶。

Then they had to drink some milk.

是的。

Yep.

那可能会很糟糕。是的。如果大家都知道牛奶都变质了。它有点像有个骷髅头标志的公共区域。没错。

And that could be bad. Yes. If everybody out there knew that the milk was all bad. It kind of had a bit of a like skull with a communal area. Yes.

不像只是你面前的骷髅头，而是大家都把它们放在中间，所有人都知道里面有很多骷髅头，所以没人想拿任何一个。当你遇到这种情况时真的很有趣

Where like rather than being like just the skull in front of you, it's like everyone's put them down the middle and everyone knows there's loads of skulls in there so nobody wants to pick any of them up. It was really funny when you had

有人打出了他们的牌，旁边的人问，那是你最后一张牌吗？

a situation where someone played their card, and the person next to them goes, was that your last card?

对。然后你说不是。然后他们说，是的，就是。然后我们就说，咱们来制作牛奶吧。但同时也感觉到人们在避开牛奶或拿它开玩笑，但后来发现里面的牌大多其实挺好的，

Yeah. And you go, no. And then they go, yeah, it was. And then we're like, let's make the milk. But also having that feeling of like people are avoiding a milk or joking around it, but then it actually turned out that most of the cards in there were quite good,

而且实际上还不错。因为你的牌大部分都是好的。对吧？你总得让它们在某些时候派上用场。

and it was actually decent. Well, because the majority cards you have are decent. Right? You have to make them good at some point.

我最喜欢的那个可怕规则是：当游戏结束时，你最近喝下的那杯牛奶对应的牛奶点数会被翻倍。也就是说，如果你表现不错，但卡片上有七个粪便标记时——有次甚至达到十五个——如果不赶紧再喝些牛奶，就会被倒扣15分。

The horrible rule that I really enjoyed was that when you when the game ended, Yes. Your most recently drank milk of your little stacks of milk points would be was it doubled or doubled. So it meant that like if you had like, you've done quite well, but then you had one where you had like seven poop tokens Yeah. On your card. At one point you had 15, and it meant that if you didn't drink some more milk, you're gonna get another minus 15 points.

那可就惨了。

It was gonna be really bad.

但这也意味着你必须提防那些沉默的玩家，他们可能只赢了一轮，却突然因为那轮得到七分而逆袭。

But it also meant that like, you had to be really careful of quiet players who just like, oh, I've only won one round. And you get to point where you're like, yeah, but you got seven for that.

没错，翻倍就是14分呢。

Yeah. And that's gonna be like 14. Yeah.

那可是能决定胜负的分数。我们得想办法让这家伙喝到变质牛奶。全桌人一起琢磨‘怎么骗这人喝馊牛奶’的过程特别有趣。

That's a game winning score. We gotta make this person drink some bad milk. And having that collective around the table energy of like, how do we get this person to drink bad milk? Yeah. Was a lot of fun.

还有个规则我记不清细节了，好像是喝牛奶时能拿回某些...

There was also something, I can't remember the specific rule, but there was like a specific rule about when you drank a milk, you got some

卡片还是什么的

of the cards back or something

就像那样。是的。这意味着你可以某种程度上追踪某些卡片的位置。嗯。而且我觉得很多时候你不能把它们全部拿回来。

like that. Yes. Which meant that you could sort of keep track of where certain cards were. Mhmm. And like, there were oftentimes I think you couldn't take all of them back.

你只能拿一部分。所以会出现这样的情况：你把一张非常好的牛奶卡和一张非常糟糕的泻药卡放在一起，有人同时拿了两张卡，他们可以选择拿其中一张。是的。但在你...之前你不知道是哪张

You just take some. So you'd have situations where you put a really good milk and a really bad laxative in the same one, and someone took both cards, they they they would have the option of taking one of those two Yeah. But you don't know what until you

比如，他们拿的是好的那张吗？是的。他们会不会很坏地留着糟糕的那张，好让别人...是的。

like, have they taken a good one or Yes. Haven't they been mean and held onto a nasty one so someone else could Yeah.

喝点更好的牛奶。而且每个人的卡片都有颜色编码，所以你大概能看出谁已经出过牌了。

Drink some better milk. And everyone's cards are color coded as well, so you can kind tell who's shot their shot.

说实话，这游戏充满了骷髅能量。有点骷髅的感觉，因为你会想，那个人是不是...你知道，在同样的骷髅情况下，当他们随机丢失骷髅卡时就像掉了牙齿。这就像他们丢了泻药卡。随着游戏进行，知道哪些颜色的牛奶更安全，这比它应有的水准好太多了。我很乐意把它归入B档。

It had that Honestly, it had big skull energy. It was a little bit skull in the fact that you're like, have have is that person's have they you know, in the same skull, they say they've lost their teeth when someone's lost their skull card randomly. This is like they've lost their lax atives. Like at which point, you know, knowing which colors of milk are safer to drink as the game goes on, just like way better than it had any right to be. I'd happily put this in b.

你把它归入B档。这太疯狂了。

Which is You put it in b. Which is which is wild.

我本来想把它放在B档和A档之间。

I was gonna put it between b and a.

我很好

I I'm fine

本来打算把它归到困惑兔子那一档的。

with was gonna put it in the confused rabbits tier.

我对此没意见，而且我觉得对于一个家庭级游戏来说，分发一堆形状像搞笑便便的代币确实很有趣。

I'm fine with that and also I think for a family grade game there was something very funny about handing people a little pile of tokens shaped like comedy poops.

当时的情况就是'这是你的便便'。我对这个游戏的一个批评点——最大的批评是，我有点希望它不是关于牛奶和便便的。我明白设计意图。

That was the here are your poops. My one criticism of the game. My biggest criticism is I sort of wish that it wasn't about milk and poo. I get it.

我理解。

I get it.

我第二个小意见是，如果要做便便代币，就应该全都做成便便形状。因为他们有些代币并不像小粪条形状，只是些圆形。还有牛奶...

My second minor gripe is that if you're gonna have poo tokens, they should all be pooey. Because they had some tokens that weren't like shaped like a little turd. They were just like circles. And the milk

牛奶也是。

for milk as well.

是啊，怎么回事？把那些牛奶代币都给我们。给

Yeah. What gives? Give us all those milk tokens. Give

我更多便便。

me more poop.

我不想等到攒够五个便便才能换一个便便形状的代币。我想直接从

I don't wanna have to wait until I have five poop to get a little token shaped like one. I wanna be getting poop from

你几乎立刻就用了15个便便换到了三个便便代币。

you got three poop tokens for 15 poop almost immediately.

确实如此。

That's true.

喝了。你喝了牛奶，结果是个馊主意。

Did. You drank the milk and it was a bad idea.

我们要不要聊聊另一款真正的好游戏？对，《大人物》。这游戏真不错。虽然我都没怎么玩过。

Should we talk about another real good game? Yeah. Big shot. This is this is lovely. I didn't even play much of this game.

我得去和某人聊聊，所以我把游戏里的角色让给了别人，结果我玩得很开心。

I had to go and chat to someone, so I gave someone else my role in the game and I had a great time.

是啊，你把控制权交给了节目好友安德鲁，他成了国王之手，但那些要去...

Yeah. You you you handed over control to a friend of the show Andrew who became the the the hand of the king, but for for people people who are going to the the

之手

hand of

尿王。然后你就走了。真的。其实就在游戏最后五分钟，我们问安德鲁要不要坐那把椅子，因为他基本上一直坐在桌子对面替你玩游戏，直到我们觉得汤姆不会回来了。

the piss king. You then left full stop. Yeah. So, it actually it was only in the last like five minutes of the game when we said to Andrew like, do you wanna just sit in that chair? Because he just basically played your game for you whilst, like, on the other side of the table for ages until it was like, I think Tom's not coming back.

你应该谢谢节目好友。

You should Thank you, friend of the show.

但你赢了，汤姆。是啊。嘿。嘿。赢了游戏。

But you won, Tom. I did. Hey. Hey. Won the game.

大获全胜。《Big Shot》是个游戏。其实你可以在我们很久前的播客里听到相关讨论。这款游戏我渴望拥有很久了，现在终于能在Plate买到——我们今年早些时候还专门做过一期视频介绍他们。

Stormed it. Big Shot is a game. You can actually find us talking about this on a podcast ages ago. This has been a game that I've really wanted a copy of for absolutely ages. And finally, it is available from Plate, who we did a whole video about earlier on in the year.

哇哦。

Wowee.

他们把精巧的小游戏装进这些磁吸小盒子里，真是妙趣横生，真的非常有意思。

They make small games in these little magnetic boxes that are delightful. They're really, really delightful.

这些游戏都有个共同主题——复兴那些曾经不太受青睐的旧设计，给它们改头换面后装进精美的小盒子里。《大亨》也不例外，这是个拍卖游戏，玩家扮演地产大亨竞拍各种彩色方块（颜色对应桌上玩家），拍得后可以自由选择地块放置，但这并不意味着你能掌控全局。

And they all have a kind of similar theme of they're bringing back some kind of older, like lesser loved designs and giving them like a new lick of paint, putting them in these nice small boxes. And Big Shot is no exception. It is an auction game where you're playing property magnates and the auctions of these lots of cubes. Cubes that are of the colors of the players around the table. And then when you take those cubes and you win an auction, you can put them on any of the lots that you want, which means that you're not getting control.

你只是在决定谁能得到什么

You're sort just getting control over who gets what

对。

Yes.

而不是，你知道的，比如你不能

Rather than, you know, like, you can't

必须把方块分散放置。你无法独占所有资源，所以不能只盯着有自己颜色方块的地块竞拍，然后全往好位置堆。嗯，你必须始终统筹分配所有方块。

have to put them all in different places. You can't win everything. So you can't just be like, I'm gonna win this lot that has my cubes on it, and then just place all of my cubes in a good spot. Mhmm. You always have to be distributing all of them.

是的。这意味着这是一种奇怪的现象，你花钱买到的特权就是能精确控制发生的事。嗯哼。很多时候，特别是在游戏初期，这其实并不重要。

Yeah. And it means it's this weird thing of like, you are paying for the privilege to control exactly what happens. Mhmm. And a lot of the time, it's like, especially early in the game, it's like, it doesn't Okay. Really matter.

比如，别人可以花钱把我的方块放在某个位置。但在其他时候，关键的一点是，当这些地块上的方块达到七个时就会被出售。

Like, somebody else can pay money and like, put my cube somewhere. However, at other points, because one of the crucial things is, these things, these lots would be sold when they hit like seven cubes

是七个总数。

it was. Seven total.

所以一旦某个区域的总数达到七个，就会触发拍卖，出价最高者赢得地块。

So as soon as you have seven total in an area, the auction happens and whoever's won it, won it.

对，谁在该区域拥有最多方块

Yeah. Whoever has the most cubes in the area

谁就能得到它。这个附加规则太糟糕了

With the gets it. Bonus horrible horrible rule

哦，真是

Oh, it's so

漂亮。如果两位玩家打成平手，嗯。那么第三位玩家。对。第二名接着

Beautiful. Of if it's a tie between the two players Mhmm. Then the person in third. Yep. Second comes

三个立方体，

three cubes,

那是个巨大的数字

which is which is a huge number

在这个游戏中的立方体数量。嗯。第一名和第二名各得三个立方体，最后一位玩家只有一个，可能就是实际上的那个人。

of cubes in this game. Mhmm. Three cubes each for first and second, and the last player with just one can be the one who the actual.

我尝试过几次这样做，这就是你花大钱的时候。那时我就会想，我要出价15，因为你看到了，其他人都说，哦不。因为他们意识到你可以封锁一个非常诱人的得分区域。对。某种程度上，其他人都把那些立方体投在了一个区域，而你什么都没做，那块区域就是你的了。

And I tried to do that a few times, and that's what you spend in the big money. That's when I'm like, I'm bidding 15 for this because you see it and everyone else goes, oh no. Because they realize you can close off a very juicy points area Yeah. In a way that everyone else has invested all those cubes Mhmm. In one area and you've done nothing and it's yours.

所有这些地块

And all of these lots

在游戏结束时都值一定数量的分数。有些地块能使周围的分数翻倍，如果能组合起来就太棒了。但更大的转折是，你要拍卖所有这些地块，但你只有10美元可用。嗯。所以到某个时候你不得不贷款。

are just worth a certain amount of points at the end of the game. There's a lot that doubles the surrounding ones that if you get to combo that it's great. But then the bigger twist is that you are gonna be auctioning off all of these lots but you only have $10 to play with. Mhmm. So at some point you're gonna be taking a loan.

你获得的第一笔贷款会在游戏结束时扣除10点，但能让你拿到9美元。哦抱歉，在游戏中花费10美元，你得到9美元。对。第二笔贷款花费10美元，你得到8美元。

The first loan that you get costs you 10 points at the end of the game but it gets you $9. Oh, sorry. Cost you $10 in the game, you get $9. Yeah. The second loan costs you $10 and you get 8.

然后是10换7，以此类推。越来越低，直到你借的贷款只有4英镑左右。就像

And then 10 and then 7 and so on and so forth. Lower and lower and lower until you're taking a loan for like £4. Like a

节目嘉宾杰米玩到最后借了3英镑的贷款。哦。那时我就觉得，你知道，这真的犯了大错。对。肯定哪里出了严重问题。

friend of the show, Jamie was playing ended up taking a loan of 3. Oh. Which I was just at that point I thought, you know, think you've really made a mistake. Yeah. Something has gone horribly wrong.

由于不是每轮都借贷，最终会导致可怕的局面——人们被迫按自己的条件贷款却无所作为。对。他们下轮需要更多钱，但又得再借一笔。我觉得这就是杰米的

And because you don't take one each round, you end up with a horrible circumstance where people are taking out loans on their terms not to do anything. Yeah. They're gonna need some more money next round, but they're gonna have to take out another loan. I think that was Jamie's

游戏第一回合就决定'我要贷款然后跳过'。纯粹因为他们知道迟早需要这笔钱。

very first turn of the game was, I'm gonna take a loan out and I'm gonna pass. Just because they knew that at some point they would need the money

说实话非常简单刺激，就像共享空间控制权，试图协调策略。这种完全开放的感觉很棒，因为你可以真正开始和别人加码对抗。对。当有人突然押13点之类的时候，你不得不怀疑：他们是不是藏着什么？你知道，他们能有什么后手？

Honestly, very simple, very crunchy, like having this like shared control of the space and and trying to like work out Like having everything being so open was lovely because you could really start like amping up the the bets against people. Yeah. Yeah. And when someone suddenly went in with, 13 or something, you'd have to be like, what if they seem like unseen? You know, what what can they do here?

是啊。要知道赢得这些最多也就20分左右。嗯。所以有时候你会想，我花了16分就为了... 17分？

Yeah. Because you know, you're only gonna get, like, maximum, like, maybe 20 points for winning these things. Mhmm. So, sometimes you're like, well, I spent 16 to get Yeah. Like, 17?

是啊是啊，那感觉不太好。但往往会有你忽略的东西。对。

Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't feel great. But then often there would be something you'd missed. Yeah.

别人能做到的事会让你觉得，哦，帮帮我吧。

Something someone can do and you're like, oh, help me.

非常棒。对。真的非常棒的游戏。我要把它...我要把它

Very cool. Yeah. Really, really cool game. I'm gonna put it. I'm gonna put it

放进

in the

S级。

s tier.

没错。我很满意。我...我很开心因为我当时就想，我喜欢这个。哦，而你却说，不，这是我的。我要留着它

Yeah. I'm happy with that. I'm I'm happy because I was like, I like this. Oh, and you were like, no, it's mine. I'm keeping it in

我当时就在想，

a way that I was like,

我还没意识到。我记得这是你想要的重印版，但

I hadn't realized. I'd remembered that it was a reprint of something you wanted, but

我一直在寻找恐惧

I've been searching for fear

都这么想抓住它。它就在这儿。真漂亮。直接从镜头前拿走的。我要偷走它。

all so grasp for it. Was it's right over here. It's beautiful. Literally got it right off camera. I'm gonna steal it.

你敢试试看。

Don't you freaking dare.

汤姆，我要请你讲讲

Tom, I'm gonna ask you to tell

夜肥的事。夜肥。又是一个关于粪便的游戏。嗯。这类游戏还真不少。

me about Nightsoil. Nightsoil. It's another poop game. Mhmm. There are a lot of poopy games.

这次的粪便更粗粝。没错。一个复杂的粪便游戏。难度高，不适合全家欢。不适合。

This is much more gritty poop. Yes. A complex poop game. A difficult not your family fun. No.

不。不行。

No. No.

这里有个重要前提：我只玩过大约一轮多一点的游戏，但我觉得它非常吸引人。我真的很想再玩一次。如果用我们的小评分表，我会给它打'兴奋'分，因为我真的很兴奋

This comes with a big caveat, which is I've only played like one and a bit rounds of this game, but I think it is fascinating. And I really, really wanna get it to the table again. On our little meter, I might put it in a for excitement, as in because I'm just really excited

差不多百分百。本质上，它就是

to a percent. Essentially, it is

一款关于扮演工人的游戏，这些工人的任务是在伦敦没有下水道系统的年代清理粪便。

a game where you are playing these kind of workers who are tasked with shoveling poop out of London when there was no plumbing available.

你就是那种整天围着大堆粪便打转的人——'哦，我在伦敦搬粪呢'。对，基本上就是我们每周生活的写照。没错。

You just happen to like literally just hunk around big loads of poop Oh, I'm in London moving poop around. Yeah. It's basically what our weekly life is like. Yeah.

直到今天我还是很热爱

Still to this day. I just love

干这活。不过

doing it. But there's

这款游戏中发生了一些非常迷人的事情，我觉得我

some really fascinating stuff going on in this game that I think I'm

不想深入细节，因为我觉得我们可能会在播客里讨论这个。到你鼻子那么高。

not gonna get too into detail because I think we'll probably cover this on podcast. Up to your nose.

没错。完全正确。游戏里有些非常有趣的事情可以做。比如其中一个

Yeah. Exactly. There's some really funny things you can do in this game. Like, one of the

你正在做的事情是你在进行一个

things you're doing is you're doing a

类似工人放置的阶段。完成工人放置阶段后，你会使用这些代表夜香工的卡片，他们实际在伦敦四处走动收集搬运这些粪便。其中一项行动是你可以打广告说要清理某个区域。比如这个区域，我要给它来个小清洁。但清理可能并不意味着把所有粪便都处理掉，比如扔进河里。

sort of worker placement phase. And then once you've done your worker placement phase, you then use these cards which represent your kind of like actual the the the night soil workers going out into London and doing actually collecting and moving around this poop. And one of the things you can do is one of your actions is you can advertise that you're gonna clean a district. You can say this one right here, I'm gonna give it a little cleanup. But then cleaning it up might not mean taking all the poop and getting rid of it like putting it You just to the river.

你只是把它从那里移走。你只是把它移到别人的区域里。

You just move it from there. You just move it into someone else's district.

所以基本上就像青少年打扫房间一样。对。完全正确。就是把所有东西都推到

So it's basically like a teenager cleaning their room. Yeah. Exactly. Just push it all under

那张床。对。或者放到别人的床上。就是，你把所有东西

the bed. Yeah. Or or put it in someone else's bed. Well, like, you put all

把要洗的衣服放在床上，然后就该睡觉了。所以你又把它放地上，醒来后又放回

the laundry on the bed, then it's time for bed. So you put it the floor, and then you wake up, and you put

床上，那个地板柜。没错。

it back on the bed, the floor drobe. Exactly.

我已经清理过了。我把床清理干净了。

I've I've cleaned it. I've cleaned the bed.

但还有些精妙的设计，比如每个区域都会有一定量的粪便。或者说该用个文雅点的词——一定量的夜香

But there's there's some lovely touches as well where, like, each of these districts gonna have a certain amount of poop in them. And therefore Or I should use a sort of dignified term, kind of a certain amount of night soil

夜香。

in Night soil.

夜香。这意味着你可以轻松制造堵塞。你可以把人围困住，让他们无法搬运物资，因为全都被卡住了。整个伦敦城。正是如此。

Night soil. Which means that you can create blockages quite easily. You can kind of hem in people to make it impossible for them to move stuff around because you've you you've got them all stuck. The great All of London. Exactly.

或许你可以让他们帮你搬东西，因为他们需要移动物品才能从你设置的狭小围栏中脱身。这里有些有趣的机制，比如你可以讨好某些行会，他们会为你提供特殊权限。比如讨好城市守卫队，你就能通过另一条出口处理夜香。他们会为你开启一道特殊城门，这改变了谜题走向——可能有人会想‘哦，他要把这个移到那边去’。

Or maybe you get them to move your stuff because they need to move it so that they can get out of the little enclosure that you've boxed them into. There's And there's some lovely stuff going on where there are these kind of like guilds that you can appease and they'll give you access to certain things. One of them is like if you appease the city watch, then you can cut your, night soil out through a different exit to the city. They give you access to a special gate, which changes the puzzle because some people might be thinking, oh, 's gonna do this. He's gonna move this here, there.

不。

No.

我有

I've got

一个小秘密

a little extra Secret

粪便滑道。

poop chute.

没错。我真的很想再玩一次。这游戏互动性很强又有点恶趣味，结构还特别怪异。所以我们只玩了一轮，结束时大家都一脸茫然地说‘搞不懂发生了什么’。

Exactly. I really wanna play this again. I think it's very interactive and kinda nasty, and it has such a bizarre shape to it. And that's why we only played one round, because we got to the end of our one round and everyone went, I don't know what's going on. Yep.

是啊是啊。我听其他反馈也说这游戏确实有点怪怪的。

Yeah. Yeah. I've I've heard from sort of other reports have kind of suggested that it is a little bit like strange.

是的。我听说过对它褒贬不一的评价，但老实说，任何古怪、有趣、带点恶趣味，还涉及在伦敦各处运送粪便的游戏，正是多年前让我对桌游产生兴趣的那种类型——就像在问，这是什么鬼？

Yeah. I think I've heard mixed things about it, but to be honest, any game that's like odd, interesting, a little bit mean, and is about carting around poop into different parts of London is exactly the kind of got me excited about board games all those years ago being like, what?

是啊，这是什么？

Yeah. What's this?

所以，如果最终结果不尽如人意，我觉得我那股想尝试的兴奋劲儿大概也就这样了。差不多到这儿。对，差不多。挺好的。嗯。

So, if it does end up being not great, I think my excitement check that out is is is that's about right. It's about here. That's about right. Good stuff. Yeah.

我简单给你们讲讲《白城对决》。没错。好吗？因为这是Devere公司《白城》的纯双人对战版本。嗯哼。

I'm gonna tell you briefly about the White Castle Duel. Yes. Okay? Because this is a, like, head to head two player only version of the White Castle from Devere. Mhmm.

我在准备和学习《白城对决》时意识到，我确实玩过原版

A game that I realized when I was setting up and learning White Castle Duel. I definitely played

嗯哼。和你一起，

Mhmm. With you,

我想是的。我喜欢它，但完全记不起任何细节。甚至当我读新版的规则书和玩它时，都感觉——我肯定玩过，但就是记不起来。

I think so. And I liked, but I couldn't remember anything about it. Even when I was reading the manual for this new one and playing it, was like, I don't reme I definitely played it, but I don't remember.

好的。明白了。

Sure. Okay.

某种程度上，那是一种模糊的欧洲式恐惧，是吗？我...我只是记不清了。我不记得了。拜托。

In a way that it was that nebulous euro y. Slightly frightening, was it? I I just don't remember. I don't remember. Please.

但其实我非常喜欢这款游戏的机制。好的，'白色城堡对决'。它的核心机制是工人放置，每次你放置一个棋子时，会同时激活其左右两侧的两个行动。对吧。

But I like the shape of this game a lot, actually. Okay. White Castle Duel. It has a thing whereby it's worker placement effectively and every time you play something down, you're gonna activate two actions either side of it. Right.

所以，你要先执行某个操作，然后专门触发那两个行动。最精妙的是游戏开始时你有六座塔——每种颜色两座。嗯哼。红、黑、白三色。

So, you're gonna do something and then take those two actions specifically. What's lovely about it is you have, at the start of the game, you have like these six towers. The two of each color. Mhmm. Red, black, and white.

你只能将它们放置在不同颜色的空格或其他塔上。嗯哼。直到每个区域集齐三色为止。

And you can only place them onto spaces or other towers of a different color. Mhmm. Until you have in these spaces three of each.

我们知道。对。

We know. Right.

这就是上限。比如某个区域已有黑色、白色和珊瑚粉色令牌时，之后你就不能再通过放置来触发那两个行动了。明白。

That's the max. So, you got a black token, a white token, and a red kind of corally pink token in one space. Okay. For the rest of the time, you can't do that, those two actions anymore by placing there. Okay.

这种方式会很快变得非常刻薄和恶劣，因为你会想，为什么要这么做？好处在于所有玩家都有相同的标记，这意味着你可以在早期就相当狠心，可以限制对方的棋子，知道他们在接下来的回合中选项会更少，因为他们只剩下一些红色和白色的棋子。没错。这样一来，通过让这些空格上只露出红色和白色的顶部

In a way that gets very snippy and very mean quite quickly, because you're like, why do wanna do that? What's nice is because all the players have these same tokens, it means you can be quite mean early on, and you can be capping off other pieces and knowing that then they have fewer options in the coming rounds because they've only got some red and white pieces left. Right. And it means by making it so there's only red and white tops of these spaces visible

嗯。

Mhmm.

他们可能不得不做一些不太理想的事情。嗯。因为在你采取不同行动之前，他们无法去那里。好的。那么第二阶段的美妙之处在于什么

They have to maybe do something that's not ideal Mhmm. Because they can't go there until you do something different. Okay. And what's second phase lovely about this

两个阶段的‘美妙’？是啊，开玩笑吧。

Two phases of lovely? Yeah. Kidding me.

游戏进行到一半时，当你放置完所有六个物品后，会翻转先手标记，之后另一位玩家将成为剩余游戏的先手。对。这意味着你可以连续行动两次。哦。

You have a halfway point in the game where once you've placed all six of your things, halfway point in the game, you flip the first player token and now the other player is first toke first player for the rest of the game. Right. Okay. But it means you get to have two turns in a row. Oh.

玩家。哦，是的。好吧。就像，现在轮到我，然后我们翻转标记，又轮到我了。

Player. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's like, it's my turn and now we flip it. It's me again.

然后，在游戏的剩余时间里，你要把这些标记从棋盘上拿回自己的棋盘。

Then, for the rest of the game, you're taking these tokens off the board back onto your board.

哦，我喜欢

Oh, I like

那个。每次你激活红色区域时，你都在构建这些小小的卡牌组合，它们就藏在游戏板下面。

that. At which point, you know, you're you're building up these little, card tableaus tucked under the board of every time you activate a red space.

我记得那个

I remember that from from

每次这样做你都能获得所有那些奖励。但美妙之处在于当你收回它们时，完全是自由争夺。是的。这意味着如果你有能力，你可以拿走所有红色的，然后不断重复激活红色能力。

from You you get all of those bonuses each time you do it. But what's nice is when you're bringing them back, it's a free for all. Yeah. Which means you can just take all the red ones if you're Right. Able And just keep activating the red power again and again and again.

当然。如果有玩家以某种方式构建了那个东西，比如我喜欢它的形态。我也喜欢你会认为一个玩家最终会尽可能独占一种颜色。但在双人游戏中，你非常渴望阻止对手做太好的事情，所以最终会形成相当均匀的分布，你会想：'我不会让你得到那个，尽管对我也不太好。'这很好。

Sure. If a player's like built out that thing in a way that was like, I like the shape of it. And I like the way that you'd think that like one player would end up like taking all of one colour if they can. But in a way you're so keen in a two player game to stop the other player from doing something too good that you kind of end up with a fairly even distribution of them back where you're like, well I'm not letting you have that even though it's not that great for me. That's good.

然后还有，比如，你知道的，你可以移动行动标记之类的。它有个很好的机制，通过获取标记来改变行动位置，这在游戏早期感觉没什么意义。但到了后期限制更多时，你会意识到：'哦，我不是通过放置标记来选择行动，而是通过收回标记来选择行动。嗯。'

And then also, like, you know, you could move around the actions and stuff. It had a nice thing of, getting tokens to move the positions of the actions around, which early game felt, like, not that much of a point. But when you were more restricted because late in late game, you're like, oh, like, it's not me choosing the actions by placing a token there. It's me choosing the action by taking a token back. Mhmm.

这意味着如果你的分布是那里没有任何标记，

Which means if you had a distribution where like there aren't any tokens there,

那就像是，呃，你只是

then it's like, well You're just

在做那个动作。好吧。对。因为就像，你会觉得，啊。它很脆。

doing that action. K. Right. Because like, you're like, ah. It was crunchy.

它很棒。再说一次，我觉得原版的白城堡可能不是特别令人难忘。对。但作为一款正面交锋的欧式游戏，我真的很喜欢。我得说里面有个很糟糕的印刷错误。

It was nice. Again, I think like the original White Castle, it maybe wasn't like super memorable. Right. But as a head to head euro thing, I really liked it. I would say there was like a really bad printing error in it.

哦，不。我知道。就是那种你需要把卡片塞到版图下面的情况

Oh, no. I know. It's like one of those things where the cards you tuck under the board

哦，你说

Oh, you said

下面，我不知道这是怎么发生的或为什么发生，但它看起来真的很蠢。

the down and I don't know how that happened or why that happened but like it looks real dumb.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

当你拿到那些铁砧并滑动它们时，感觉就像是上下颠倒。所有的铁砧都倒过来了，你却无能为力。就像，啊，某种程度上感觉，好吧，简单修复。我喜欢这样。

When you've got like the anvils and you're sliding it It's like Upside down. And the anvils are all upside down and there's nothing you can do about it. It's just like, ah, in a way that was like, okay. Easy fix. I liked it.

老实说，我觉得我会给它打B档。

I I think that like actually like I'd put it like a b if I'm honest.

如果我们讨论的是你有多想再玩一次。

If we're we're talking about how excited you are to play it again.

我真的很想再玩一次。把它放在一条赛道上。我觉得这很有趣，因为很多人看着这些双人游戏会说，哦，这有什么意义？

I really would like to play it again. Put it in a lane. Think that like I I think it's interesting because lots of people I think look at these dual games and go, oh, what's the point?

这就像是一个

It's like a

但是拥有一个这么大体型的厚重、有嚼劲的欧洲游戏，确实不错。

But but having like a chunky, toothy euro game that's in a box this big Yeah.

就像，那相当不错。当它

Like, that's pretty good. When it's

比如你实际状况如何？通常你会和四个人一起玩那种游戏对吧。确实。对我来说更可能的是，特别是在周日下午，我会单独和一个人对决。所以，

like when are you realistically like, how are you Often you're gonna play a game like that with four people. Right. Sure. Like, You know, it's more likely for me, especially, that I would sit and have a head to head at Sunday afternoon with just one person. So,

我倒是挺感兴趣的。德维尔这些双人游戏特别之处在于——我个人也很喜欢双人游戏，比如那些专为两人设计的版本。像《璀璨对决》就是典型例子，它虽然是《璀璨宝石》的两人版，但玩法完全不同，充分运用了双人游戏的特质。

I'm kind of up for that. The weird thing with these ones, specifically from Devere, because I'm very much on board with the with the dual games as well, like the trend of like having things that are two player only versions. Like, Splendid Duel especially is like Yeah. Splendid but only two player and it's very different in a way as well. Like, it it really leverages the fact that it's just for two players.

德维尔双人版还有个奇怪的地方——白城堡原版盒子已经很小了。没错。所以改成双人版后其实...

The weird thing with the Devere two player only things is like the White Castle's already a pretty tiny box. Yep. And so turning it into the dual game is like you're

并没有节省多少空间。是啊，确实。

not really saving on space. No, suppose.

不过我想，关键在于他们是否——从机制设计来看——确实发挥了...

But I suppose. It's it's whether they and by the sounds of things, mechanically they have leverage

真正犀利的策略元素

real toothy stuff in

比如，他们清楚你会...

Like, they're Knowing you're gonna

玩这个游戏。整个终局计分机制是基于锁定某些位置设计的。确实。而且棋盘上每个区域你只能放置两个标记，这两个标记还可能同属一个玩家。嗯。这让玩家面临一些残酷的抉择，当他们发现自己被排除在行动选择之外、经济系统之外，或者以某种令人着迷的方式被排除在得分之外时。

play it. The whole like endgame scoring was based on like locking down certain positions. Sure. And the fact that like for each of these sections on the board like you can only have two tokens and they could both be one players Mhmm. Created some really mean decisions of people realizing that they'd been locked out of making action choices or locked out of economies or locked out of scoring in ways that were fascinating.

是的。游戏节奏把握得很好，没有拖沓。我觉得设计相当紧凑。很棒。说明书里有一堆错别字很烦人，卡片上还有个离谱的印刷错误，简直让人火大。

Yeah. It didn't outstay its welcome. I thought it was pretty tight. Great. There's a bunch of typos in the manual which is annoying and like there's a mad typo on the card which is like kind of infuriating.

尽管如此，我觉得这游戏挺酷的。很棒。我想再玩一次。要再来一局吗？好啊。

But despite that, I I thought it was pretty cool. Great. I'd like to like to play it again. You wanna play it again? Yeah.

那太好了。嗯。

That's good. Yeah.

让我来聊聊两款我觉得还不错的游戏。它们主题都很枯燥。我要说的是——

Let me tell you about two games that I thought were pretty pretty okay. And they're also both very dry themes. I'm gonna tell you

关于《国民经济》和《铁路繁荣》的双主题短评。没错。我对这个国家的敬意与对火车的敬意是等量齐观的。

about National Economy and Railway Boom in a little two parter. That's right. I salute this country equally to the way I salute trains.

《国民经济》非常有意思。这是个工人放置游戏，但桌上的卡牌就是工位。比如你可以去农场获取商业货物（就是加入手牌的卡），也可以去矿场抽卡等等。

So, National Economy is fascinating. It's a worker placement game where the cards on the table are the worker placement spaces. So, you can, for example, you can go to a farm which gets you some commercial goods, which are cards that you put in your hand. You could go to somewhere that'll get you to draw a card. I think it was the mines that lets you draw a card, and so on and so forth.

但有趣的是，你把手牌打到自己面前，变成专属的工人放置位。嗯哼。比如我刚提到的农场卡能产出商业物资，你可以把它作为仅属于你版图的卡牌，意味着只有你能使用。很刺激吧。现在重点来了。

But the thing that's interesting is you're putting cards in your hand that you're then playing in front of you to be your own personal worker placement spaces. Uh-huh. So, for example, that farm that I just mentioned that gets you these commercial goods, you could have that as a card that is only in your tableau, which means only you can access it. Very spicy. Now, here's the thing.

整局游戏你都会深陷债务危机。没错，就是这种设定。每回合结束时你得用可能根本不存在的钱支付工人工资，这意味着你不得不变卖工人放置位。

You're drowning in debt for this entire game. That's right. It's one of those. Yeah. You have to pay your workers at the end of every round with money that you probably don't have, which means you need to sell off your worker placement spaces.

那就意味着——好吧。它们会变成公共版图的一部分，谁都能用。你这是在扮演撒切尔夫人啊。

Which then means Fine. They become part of the tableau that everyone can you're being Margaret Thatcher.

你这是在扮演撒切尔夫人。

You're being Margaret Thatcher.

你把国家资产变卖到一无所有。哦。然后整个体系就崩溃了。

You're selling the country off until there's nothing left to sell. Oh. And then nothing works.

该死。国民经济可不好惹。抱歉。但事实就是如此。千真万确。

Damn. National economy's got hands. Sorry. That's that's what happened. It's true.

总之，《国民经济》这款游戏里，你要跳一场微妙的舞蹈：既要保住对自己至关重要的工人放置位，又要在被迫公开出售前尽可能久地持有它们。这也是款惩罚机制极其残酷的游戏——我和'No Pun Included'的Elaine、Efka玩时，Elaine的债务堆积如山，简直难以置信。

So, yeah. National economy is a game where you're doing this kind of like interesting dance of trying to make sure that you get worker placement spaces that are essential for you to use, trying to hold on to them for as long as you can before having to sell them to everyone. It's also a game that is incredibly punishing. I played this with Elaine and Efka of No Pun Included fame, and Elaine was had so much debt. It was it was unbelievable.

像一个真正的国家。

Like a real country.

像一个实实在在的国家。但让我不太想再玩这游戏的原因是，我发现每一轮要做的事情都太显而易见了。比如，在我玩的时候，每一轮都感觉相当可预测。我有一个农场能产出这些物资，意味着我可以建造更多建筑。所以基本上，每一轮就是在我版图上多建一个建筑，确保有足够资金支付工人工资，然后轮到下一个人行动。

Like a real actual country. But the thing that kind of that kind of steers me away from necessarily wanting to play this again is that I kind of found what was happening on each turn to be quite an obvious decision. Like, we have this situation where when I was playing it at least, every turn felt quite like predictable. I had a farm that got me these goods that meant I could then build more buildings. And so basically, every turn was just building an extra building into my tableau and then making sure I had enough money for my workers and then letting the next person take their go.

这感觉相当可预测。

It was kind of like quite predictable.

嗯，你知道，在理想情况下，政府运作应该是平淡无奇的。没错。所以，是的。

Well, you know, in an ideal world, government should be boring. Yes. So, know, yeah.

我运营的是有史以来最无聊的政府。

I ran the most boring government that there ever was.

所以，当事情发展到

So, like, when when things go into

中间阶段时，是不是就

the middle, is it just

它们是永久共享的，还是其他人可以买断它们

that they're they're permanently shared or can other people buy them up and

为所有人永久共享

have permanently shared for everyone.

你看，我觉得我想看到类似买断的机制。某样东西必须进入市场，然后其他人才能购买。我觉得那样会更准确。

You see, I think I'd like to see something where like Buy it out. Something has to go into the market and then other people can buy it. Like, I feel like that would be more That's accurate.

这有点

This is kind

像是

of the

国家经济的问题。有些时刻在理论上看起来非常聪明，但在实际操作中却逐渐被边缘化。比如实际的国家经济本身就像一个小钱盘，基本上当玩家有机会支付一大笔钱时，我想，只是为了得分。我记不太清了。嗯。

thing with national economies. There were these moments that I thought were like very smart on paper, but then in the play of it, they kind of like fell by the wayside. There's a thing like the actual national economy itself is this little tray of money that basically when players get the option of essentially paying a whole bunch of money to, I guess, just get points. I can't remember exactly. Mhmm.

但你可以把一堆钱变成某种东西。我记不清具体是什么了。

But you can you can turn a bunch of money into into something. I can't remember what.

通过减少国家债务？不。你你

By reducing the national debt? No. You you

把你支付的任何钱都放进那个国家经济盘子里。但然后有人会说哦不就是这样抱歉你不能把钱变成积分。

put any money you pay, you put into that national economy tray. But then someone can oh no that was it sorry you don't turn money into points.

我就是喜欢这种感觉，就像13岁时听别人老爸给你讲解经济，你完全不懂，长大后才发现他们说的都是胡扯。是的。但是

I just love because this is like having someone's dad trying to explain the economy to you when you're like 13 and you're like I don't know and then you get older and you realize what they were saying was nonsense. Yes. But

是啊。特别是，我是说这肯定会是胡扯。我玩这个的时候...这可能是这个视频最弱的部分，对国家经济的创作者们道歉。我是几天前玩的，当时非常疲惫。

yeah. Especially I mean it is gonna be nonsense. I played this like this is probably the weakest part this video and to the creators of National Economy. I apologize. I played it multiple days ago and I was very tired.

但基本上...这就是我记得的情况。你可以通过丢弃汽车从这个共享资金池里取钱，每当支付工资或任何费用时钱都会进入这个池子。明白了。但有个奇怪的现象：我和朋友紧挨着坐，我们锁定了局面，把池里的钱都拿光了，因为我们是一二顺位。别人本可以抢走我们的第一顺位令牌，但那样他们就得卖掉整个引擎，陷入噩梦般的境地。

But you're basically That's what I remember it, what it was now. You can basically discard cars to take money out of this kind of shared pot of money that everyone whenever you pay money, whenever you pay your workers, whenever you pay anything, it goes into that, like, trough essentially. Got it. But it meant this there was a weird thing where basically me and my friend, like, next to each other just locked it down where we basically made it so there was no money left in it because we were first and second player. And you someone else could have wrestled the first player token away from us, but then they would have had to sell off their whole engine and end up in a nightmare scenario.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我没看到。我我

I didn't see it. I I

有很多很酷的想法，但我就是不太喜欢。

had loads of cool ideas. I just didn't love it.

也许它有我们没看出的形态。我不知道。这就是玩桌游的本质。

Maybe it had a shape we didn't see. I don't know. That's the nature of playing cons.

但我确实有点想再玩一次。所以我打算

But I do kinda wanna play it again. So I'm gonna put

把它放进b组。这样公平吗？嗯。这样可以吗？我想看看国民经济中是否有什么亮点。

it in b. Is that fair. Yeah. Is that alright? I wanna see if there's something in the national economy.

是啊。铁路热潮是个奇怪的题材，同样是关于修建铁路的枯燥主题。这款游戏通过模仿立方体轨道（比如伊比利亚轨距或爱尔兰轨距那种系列）的设计吸引你，因为它有这种

Yeah. Railway boom is a weird one, similarly dry and boring theme about making railways. This one kind of draws you in by looking like a sort of cube rails, like Iberian gauge or Irish gauge or that kind of series because it has this

还有其他轨距可选。

Other gauges are available.

还有其他轨距可选。有个不错的六边形棋盘。包装精美。盒子封面是伊恩·奥图尔设计的绝美插画。

Other gauges are available. Has a nice sort of hex based board. Has a pretty box. Has a gorgeous box art from Ian. Ian O'Toole.

但它本质上会诱骗你，因为你以为这是个简单的股票游戏，实际上却是个欧式策略游戏。哦，这点区别很重要。虽然我喜欢这类游戏，但我感觉有点怪，因为我原本期待更多买卖股票、入股别人公司这类互动元素。

But you basically it suckers you in because you think it's gonna be a little cubails game, but really it's a euro game. Oh. Very important distinction. Well, like them. I I was feeling a little bit weird about it because I kind of wanted there to be more of that like buying stocks and shares in people's companies and and being a little bit more interactive.

但实际上，这只是个关于高效建设铁路线的游戏。

But really, it's just a game about making the railway line efficiently.

如果不能破坏别人的铁路交易，那还算是真正的火车游戏吗？不，我认为'不算'是个公正的回答。

Is it really a train game unless you can rain on someone's per trade? No. I think no is a fair response

对此。

to that.

老实说。好吧。是的。不过它只是

I'm honest. Okay. Yeah. So but it was just

有点平淡。玩起来很愉快，我享受这个过程。主要问题还是和之前类似，就是我希望玩家间能有更多互动。它表面像火车游戏，可能只是我预期的问题。

a bit vanilla y. It was it was pleasant. I had a nice time playing it. The main my main problem with it again was that thing similar to recall where it's like I just wanted a bit more interaction between players. Like, it didn't have It has the veneer of, like, train game, and it might just be an expectations thing.

如果我一开始就不期待这是个充满勾心斗角、封锁路线、互相使绊子的火车游戏，或许我对它的看法会不一样

If I went into it not expecting a kind of train game, toothy, being nasty to each other, blocking routes, being a bit savage, then maybe I would have gone into this game thinking that it

这个盒子的信息有点混乱。盒子设计得让它看起来非常像另一款18XX轻量级游戏。是的。然后游戏《铁路大亨》确实给人那种感觉，你知道的，这类游戏都是关于繁荣的。确实如此。

was mixed messages with this box. The box made it look like very much like it's another one of these pretty 18 x x light games. Yeah. And then the game named Railway Boom does give that like, you know, those games are all about boom. They are.

这些游戏结束时不会让你说'我得了18分，你得了15分，他得了17分'。

They're not games where at the end of game you go, and I got 18 points and I got 15 points and you got 17.

这些游戏会让你说'我赚了1500万英镑'。

They're games I've got £15,000,000.

你们完蛋了。你们会被装在尸袋里送回家。没错。我是王者。我正点着雪茄

Are dead. You are going home in a plastic bag. Yeah. I'm the king. I'm lighting up a cigar

你还在坚持你那该死的火车。

You're keeping up your freaking train.

你燃烧的尸体。这就是现在的我，不过是火车版的。

Your burning body. That's me now, but with trains.

是啊。但这个游戏不是那样的。

Yeah. And this isn't that.

不是那样的。

It's not that.

这游戏有点休闲，你就是在搭建小火车和制造小引擎。有些很棒的内容，因为它主要还是个拍卖游戏。

It's like kind of like chill and and you're just building out little trains and making a little engine. There's some lovely stuff because it's also an auction game mainly.

那其实挺火爆的。真的很火爆。

It's quite boom then, really. It's a boom.

我确实想再玩一次。其实我想在播客里多介绍它，因为我觉得这是个挺迷人的小型引擎建造游戏。只是我感觉自己当初是带着期待去玩的

I I do wanna play it again. I actually wanna give it more coverage on the podcast because I think it is a kind of fascinating little engine builder. I just feel like I went into it excited for

我是说，这游戏当时也很受追捧。我在到处看别人手提袋时看到很多人买了这个。埃森游戏展上...说我们该到处看陌生人手提袋听起来不太好，但他们都是敞着袋子拿的。就是偷瞄那种。不。

I mean, I think this was a hyped game as well. I saw this in lots of people's bags while I was walking around looking into people's bags. Essen, it sounds bad when you say we should walk around looking at strangers bags, but they were just carrying them open style. Like peeking. No.

你就是，你知道的，就是会看到。你就会好奇他们买了什么？拿到了什么？

You just you just, you know, you just see them. You're just like, what they bought? What they got?

我能把这个

Can I put this

我可能会把这个放进？

I might put this in a?

我知道这听起来和我刚才说的很矛盾。好吧。但说到兴奋点，我确实想带着像小型引擎建造者那样的期待再玩一次。

I know that seems crazy from what I just said. Alright. But as I'm talking about excitement, I really do wanna play it again with the expectations like a little engine builder.

好的。酷。那我就放那儿了。

Alright. Cool. I'm gonna put it there then.

我们快结束了，马特。

We're getting towards the end, Matt.

是啊，是啊。

We are. We are.

只剩四局了。

Just four games left.

是。是。好吧。我们简单聊聊普利策奖。对。

Are. Are. Okay. Let's talk briefly about Pulitzer. Yeah.

这是另一款我认为相当受热捧的游戏。很刺激。是的。

Which was another quite hyped game I got the impression. It was exciting. Yeah.

人们我们当时真的很期待玩这个游戏。确实。这是一款让你组装报纸报道的游戏，用细绳把证据碎片串联起来。就像我们现在做的这样。

People And we were really excited to play it. We were. It's a game where you're putting together a newspaper report and you're using a little bit of string to tie together bits of evidence. Yeah. Like what we're doing here.

但想象一下那里有个小

But imagine there was a little

这些游戏之间存在某种关联，还有很多其他元素。不过是的，你拿到一些红线，可以四处缠绕，还有个很酷的机制是你可以把这些图钉钉在个人板上。嗯哼。而且线的长度有限，只能延伸到你能触及的范围，所以会让你思考，如果我想绕到这里，要不要快速绕到板子另一侧，但到后面线会不够用？是的。

some sort of connection between these games and a lot of things. But, yeah, you've got some red string, you get to tie it around, and it has a cool mechanic of the fact that you're you're getting to put these pins on this personal, like, board. Mhmm. And then the string is kind of limited, like, can only, like, move it as far as you can, and so you you it makes you think, oh, if I wanna go around here, then do I want to then wrap it around to the other side of the board really quickly, but but I run out of strings towards the end? Yeah.

所有这些看起来真的很酷。嗯哼。不过我要立刻补充的是，我觉得这款游戏相当令人失望，因为你实际上能用那块板子做的事情并不多。是的。游戏大部分是工人放置机制，你要竞争使用板上的不同区域。所以严格来说不算工人放置，但又类似工人放置？

All of this seems really cool Mhmm. With the immediate caveat I'd say is like, I I thought this game was pretty disappointing because you just don't get to do that much stuff with that board. Yeah. A lot of the game was a worker placement where you were competing to use different spaces on the board. So, it's like, not even really worker placement, but like worker placement?

就是你把这些东西放下去，当所有小记者都在板上时，你要把它们翻过来，背面有数值。是的。然后这些数值会决定你实际得到什么。某些情况下，它们甚至会决定你是否能对板的那个部分做任何操作。嗯哼。

Where like you you put these things down and then when all of the little journalists were on the board you'd flip them over and they'll had values on the back of them. Yeah. And then those values would dictate what you actually got. And in some cases, they would dictate whether or not you got to do anything Mhmm. With that part of the board.

是的。而且这里面有些非常精妙的细节。比如你的记者会外出采访。基本上你总能进行报道。如果你把工人放在报道区域，就能出去做些采访。

Yeah. And and there was some really nice toothiness to this. Like your reporter, for example, will like go out. You'll always get to report basically. If you put a work on a reporting space, you'll get to go and do some reporting.

但你可以通过档案库获得额外支持来提升效果。但如果你没有在那个位置安排足够强力的工作人员，那这部分就完全无法进行。

But then you can boost it by having some some extra support back in the archives. But if you didn't put a worker that was strong enough on that space, then you just wouldn't get to do that part at all.

而那

And that was

确实很有意思。这就像是在为游戏做设置。还有其他一些有趣的东西我就不细说了。底部有个类似新闻亭的设计，采用了区域多数制机制。你可以选择加班，可能非常有用，也可能一无所获。

really interesting. It was setting up for like a game. There was there were other interesting things as well that I won't go into. There was this like news kiosk at the bottom that had this like area majority thing going on. There was this you could work overtime and maybe that was gonna be really useful or maybe you were gonna get nothing.

这感觉很不稳定。问题在于，我认为我们对这个游戏最大的不满就是实际报道阶段非常薄弱，没有得到游戏其他部分的支持。

And that felt very toothy. The problem was, I think both of our big problem with this game was that the actual reporting phase was very weak and not really supported by the rest of the game.

基本上你可以抽几张卡，这些卡会告诉你在效果板上网格的哪个位置可以行动。是的，这几乎与你对软木板的预期相反——原本应该是所有东西都能随意移动和聚集。但这是个网格。没错。

You could you could basically, you know, you draw up some cards and then those cards would let you know where on this effective, like, grid of your board could you go to. Yes. So it was almost like the inverse of what you expect of a cork board where the whole point is everything can go everywhere and bunch together. It was a grid. Yes.

于是你就知道，好的，我可以去B列做一个卡带部件

And so you go, okay, I'm allowed to go to the b column and do a cassette piece

可能是

could be

可能在顶部，也可能在底部。

at the top or could be at bottom.

然后它

And it

原本可以安排一位非常优秀的记者进入那个位置并给予全力支持，这样你就能从每个牌组抽两张牌之类的，你确实这么做了，但结果可能还是无法做出任何真正有用的事情。是的。这在游戏结束时特别让人沮丧，因为你必须根据一张特殊秘密卡片的要求固定五块特定类型的拼图。没错。否则你就得不到任何分数。

could have been that you put in a really good journalist into that space and then really supported it, so you're gonna get to draw two cards from each deck or whatever and you did that, but then it might still be that you couldn't do anything that useful Yeah. Which was kind of frustrating people when at the end of the game you had to have pinned five of a certain number of pieces that you got given on a special secret card. Yeah. Otherwise, you just didn't get any points.

是的。那方面的限制性太强，你需要固定特定类型的证据，然后建立一套实际获取这些证据的机制，虽然不完全随机因为你可以某种程度上让概率对你有利。是的。但感觉相当令人不满。而且，你说得对。

Yeah. For that side of thing being so restrictive you need to pin certain types of evidence to then have a system of actually getting that evidence that's very like it wasn't totally random because you could kind of like put the odds in your favor. Yeah. But it felt quite dissatisfying. And also, yeah, you're right.

我想多玩玩那根绳子。比如，我想

I wanna play with the the string more. Like, I wanna

把它们移来移去。那些东西都很大，而且都配有纸板画架，可以立在你面前。其实这没什么实际意义。又不是有什么隐藏信息。确实没有。

be moving it around. These things where they were big and they all came with, like, cardboard easels so they could sit in front of you. And there was no real reason for that. Wasn't like there was any hidden information, really. No.

只是这样竖着放可能更节省空间。但问题是这样会导致你看不清棋盘，因为前面立着个大画架。经常会出现该谁行动的困惑，因为人们经常看不到别人在做什么，棋盘被挡在墙后面了。我也不知道。

It was just they they took up less space, I guess, when they were vertical. But the problem with that is it then meant that like you couldn't see the board very well because you had this giant easel on it. And then it meant like more often than not, you had that thing of like, is it my go? Because you often wouldn't see people doing things because the board was behind a wall. And I don't know.

我我我当时非常沮丧。虽然我很喜欢其中的许多创意，竞标这些点子的设计本身很棒。但最终确实会出现一些令人难受的时刻，比如你知道，我在某个地方出价很高，投入了所有优秀工人，但如果别人只是稍微做得更好一点，你就一无所获。

I I I was very frustrated with Especially, I enjoyed a lot of the ideas and the idea of bidding on these things was lovely. But it did end up with like feel bad moments where like, you know, you know, I bid pretty highly here and I used all of my good workers in those spaces, but then if someone else just did slightly better, then you got nothing.

我我某种程度上...我的挫败感更多在于，比如在游戏第二轮时，我全力以赴地投入——我基本上第一轮完全没有报告。这样第二轮就能全力出击，准备强势开局。本应是稳操胜券的。但结果却事与愿违。

I I kind of I my frustration was more that, like, on the second turn of the game, I put my all into doing I basically spent the first round not reporting at all. So that in the second round, I could put everything into, like I'm gonna start really strong. Guaranteed. Yeah. And it it wasn't.

我也做了同样的事。第一轮就全押注，结果却颗粒无收。

And I did the same thing. Did the first round, I went all in on it, and then I got nothing from it.

是啊。我拿到了一些非常令人失望的证据，实际上这些证据毫无用处。它们既不能指引方向，也无法在终局时为我赢得分数。

Yeah. I got some really disappointing bits of evidence that actually didn't really make for anything. Like, they didn't guide me towards. And they would have got me some endgame points. Sure.

但那个硬性规定确实...你必须收集五份证据才有资格参与竞争

But that hard restriction Yeah. Of you must have five bits of evidence if you wanna be even in

角逐胜利。这让我意识到工人放置类游戏的一个精妙之处：通过人们放置行动标记的顺序，你能看出他们争夺某些行动的决心。如果有人直奔农场，你就会明白：'好吧，要想抢到这些资源，我必须动作够快'。

the running to win. I think a nice thing it made it made me realize a nice thing about worker placement games is like, you can tell how hard people are gunning to do certain things by the order in which they put their tokens there. So, if someone immediately goes farm, then you're like, alright. I got it. If I want these, I'm gonna have to be quick off the mark with this.

或许我该争取先手优势。但在这游戏里，人们快速抢占行动其实意义不大，因为可能只是派了个低价值工人去。这个设计理念本身很有趣，但根本上来说，它承载了太多创意。

Maybe I should try and be first player, But in this, like, people going for things quickly didn't really mean anything because of the fact that, like, you know, that maybe it was a very low value worker. And again, it's an interesting idea in principle, but fundamentally, it just it was too many ideas.

我几乎觉得这是两种截然不同的游戏。比如工人放置机制就挺有意思的，像是盲拍区域。我觉得这个设计会很出彩。

I almost feel like it's two kind of fascinating games. Like, that worker placement, think, is kind of interesting. They're like blind bidding for spaces. I think it could be really strong. Yeah.

但结合这个所谓的解谜环节——其实根本不算解谜，更像是掷骰子碰运气看能不能拿到关键证据——就

But then combined with this, puzzle of of of pulling out your board that wasn't really a puzzle. No. It was just sort of a roll of the dice as if you got the the right evidence. It was