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大家好。
Hey, guys.
欢迎回到我的频道。
Welcome back to my channel.
今天，我们请来了一位特别的嘉宾。
Today, we have a very special dream guest.
她对我来说意义非凡。
She is so, so close to my heart.
2022年的时候，我大女儿两岁，小女儿一岁，我已经差不多三年没睡过好觉了。
Back in 2022, my older daughter was two, my younger was one, and I was running on no sleep for almost three years.
那时候我都快忘记自己是谁了，整个人精疲力尽，还得继续工作，真的很难撑下去。
I was forgetting who I was, and it was really hard to function because I was exhausted and I still had to work.
就在这时候，朋友推荐我读了一本埃丝特·沃西基写的书，叫《如何培养成功的孩子》。
That's when my friend recommended a book by Esther Wojcicki, The Huazhui or How to Raise Successful Kids.
我开始了解她的童年经历，还有她作为一名教师，在硅谷如何抚养三个女儿的故事。
I started reading about her difficult childhood, how she raised three daughters in Silicon Valley as a teacher.
所以你看，这就是在家工作带孩子的现实。
So see, this is the reality of working from home with the kids.
她就是那位敲开史蒂夫·乔布斯门、要电脑，结果带回来一台Mac的老师。
So she was that teacher who knocked on Steve Jobs' door asking for computers and walked out with Max.
我一直在想，既然她能做到，那我也一定行。
And I kept thinking, if she was able to pull it off, then I will be able to do it too.
于是我们坐下来谈了。
So we sat down.
我采纳了她的一些理念，融入了自己的育儿方式。
I took some of her principles and bought them into how I parent.
今天，我们终于和埃丝特坐在一起了。
And today, we're sitting down with Esther.
她被称为硅谷的教母。
She's known as the godmother of Silicon Valley.
她养育了三个非常出色的女儿。
She raised three amazing daughters.
苏珊·沃西基曾是YouTube的首席执行官。
Susan Wojcicki was the YouTube CEO.
她成功说服了谷歌收购YouTube。
She actually convinced Google to buy YouTube.
可惜她在56岁时因肺癌于两年前去世。
Unfortunately, she passed away two years ago from lung cancer at 56.
她的二女儿珍妮特是加州大学旧金山分校的研究员，安妮则是23andMe的创始人。
Janet, her second daughter, is a researcher at UCSF, and Anne is the founder of 23andMe.
她曾是谢尔盖·布林的第一任妻子。
She was Sergey Brin's first wife.
她的公司一度价值数十亿美元，后来破产了，但她又把它买了回来。
Her company was once valued at billions of dollars, and then it went through bankruptcy, and then she bought it back.
三个女儿，三种截然不同的人生，同一个母亲。
Three daughters, three completely different lives, one mom.
我特别想知道，你是怎么培养出懂得为自己信念而战的孩子的？
I really want to know how do you raise kids who know how to fight for what they believe in.
我特别想知道，怎么把她的教养理念用在自己身上，不只是教育孩子，也包括犯错后怎么重新站起来。
I really wanna know how I can use her upbringing principles, not only to raise them, but also how do I stand up after mistakes?
怎么才能一直坚持下去？
How do I keep trying?
咱们开始吧。
Let's do it.
你在这儿硅谷，亲眼见证了这么多变革，从模拟时代到互联网，从电脑到智能设备。
You've seen so many revolutions being here in Silicon Valley from, like, analog to Internet, from computers to devices.
现在你又看到了这场人工智能的变革。
Now you're seeing this AI revolution.
你觉得这次和以前有什么不一样吗？
Do you think it's different from what you've seen before?
不一样的是设备本身，但本质上没变，还是得学会怎么用这种新技术工具。
Well, it's different because the device is different, but it's actually not different in the sense that it's a technological device that we have to learn how to use.
对。
Mhmm.
我觉得他们对待孩子用手机的方式还是不对，现在一味地想禁止。
And, I still don't think they've done the cell phones correctly with kids because what they're trying to do is ban them.
对。
Mhmm.
那我想问问，历史上有什么禁令是真正成功的？
And so then I have to ask, what in history has been a successful ban?
嗯，
Okay.
比如二十世纪二十年代禁酒。
So they banned alcohol in the nineteen twenties.
结果怎么样？
How did that work?
到了八十年代，他们又想禁毒品。
And then they tried to ban drugs in the nineteen eighties.
只说不。
Just say no.
那结果怎么样？
How did that work?
所以这些禁令根本没用。
So these bans just don't work.
现在澳大利亚还禁止了社交媒体。
And now they've banned, social media in Australia.
对。
Mhmm.
你知道现在发生什么了吗？
And did you know what's going on now?
不知道。
No.
怎么回事？
What's going on?
都在用虚拟私人网络。
Are all using VPN.
所以他们正考虑禁止使用VPN。
And so they're thinking of banning VPN.
这简直太荒唐了。
It's it's just crazy.
与其这么做，不如教孩子们如何明智地使用它。
Of doing that, they should teach the kids how to use it intelligently.
你最该明白的是，要学会用AI提出好问题，而不是让它替你写数学作业，那样只是在骗自己。
The main thing you should know is how to use AI to ask good questions and not to use AI to do your math homework for you because then you're just cheating yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
确实挺难的。
It's just tough.
你该怎么教孩子应对这种情况呢？
Like, how do you teach your kids to navigate that?
因为用AI代替自己的独立思考实在太容易了。
Because it's so easy to just replace your critical thinking with AI.
你就直接问它该怎么做，它立马就告诉你。
Like, just tell me what to do, and it tells you.
他们得明白这个道理。
They need to know.
根本没人跟他们讲过这些。
They they no one tells them that.
没人说：你这是在骗自己。
No one says, you know, you're cheating yourself.
为什么没人告诉他们这一点？
Why don't they tell them that?
我也不清楚。
I don't know.
但你确实是在骗自己。
But you are cheating yourself.
如果你真想用，正确的做法是先自己试着解题、写作文，或者做数学题。
What you should do if you want to do it is you should try to do whatever problem it is, write an essay or, you know, do a math problem.
自己先试着做一遍，再拿去让AI给你提意见。
Try to do it yourself, then put it into the AI and ask the AI to give you feedback.
对。
Yeah.
这样AI就能像老师一样帮你了。
Then it can be act like a teacher.
没错。
Mhmm.
但要是直接让AI全替你做了，那不是太荒唐了吗？
But just to have the AI do it for you, I mean, what a crazy thing.
你真想让AI替你过一辈子吗？
Do you want AI to live your life for you?
我之所以不这么认为，是因为咱们想想招聘时看重的是什么能力。
So the reason I don't think so is just let's look at the skills that we're looking for when we hire.
我们找的是能解决问题的人、有创造力的人，还有善于与人合作的人。
You're looking for people that can solve problems, creative thinkers, people that get along well with other people.
如果你不从小培养孩子们团队合作和创造性思考的能力，那你将来是在培养什么样的员工呢？
And so if you don't train kids to work collaboratively in groups and to think creatively, then what kind of employees are you training for the future?
所以，我把AI当作课堂上的协作工具来使用。
So that's how I use AI in the classroom as a collaborative device.
对。
Mhmm.
从我刚开始教书起，我就一直这样用电脑辅助教学。
And that's how I've been using computers in the classroom since I first started.
你知道吗，我最早开始教书是1919年，真是让人惊讶。
You know, I started in the '19 it's shocking.
是二十世纪八十年代。
Nineteen eighties.
是的。
Yeah.
1986年。
1986.
我想我是加州第一个在课堂上用电脑的老师。
I was the first teacher in California, I think, to use computers in the classroom.
天哪。
Wow.
那这些电脑是史蒂夫·乔布斯给你的吗？
And did Steve Jobs give you those computers?
对吧？
Right?
史蒂夫·乔布斯。
Steve Jobs.
我永远感激史蒂夫·乔布斯，因为他给了我电脑。
I am forever grateful to Steve Jobs because he gave me computers.
我也很感谢项目里一些家长，他们捐钱帮我买了更多电脑。
I'm also grateful to some of the parents in the program who also donated money for me to buy more computers.
那时候别的学校根本没人用电脑，我这儿却已经有好多台了。
So I had a lot of computers when nobody in the schools anywhere were using computers.
我当时用电脑，看起来像个怪人。
And I was using computers, and I looked like an odd duck.
所以你是最早开始用人工智能的人之一。
So you you're one of the first to start using AI.
对吧？
Right?
我也是最早开始用人工智能的人之一。
I was one of the first to start using AI also.
你怎么用呢？特别是对那些成长在完全不同环境里的成年人来说，他们以前从不合作，也不沟通。
How how would you use it, especially, like, for adults who are watching who have been brought up in a different system, no collaboration, no communication?
他们怎么能把您教孩子们的那些方法，用到自己的生活中去学习这些技能呢？
How can they use what how you're teaching the kids in their adult life to learn those skills?
他们可以试着用人工智能来提问。
So one of the things they should do is think about using AI to ask questions.
不管是自己提问，还是让人工智能帮你做点事，然后跟你自己原本会怎么做做个对比。
If they ask a question or you can ask AI to do something for you and compare that with how you would have done that skill yourself.
对。
Mhmm.
所以我有时候会请AI帮我写点东西。
And, so I ask AI sometimes to write something for me.
我会说，我得给小学生做个演讲。
I say I have to give a speech to an elementary school.
你觉得我讲什么内容最能吸引他们？
You know, what do you think would be the most engaging thing for me to talk about?
然后AI就会告诉我，它觉得最吸引人的主题是什么。
So then AI will tell me what they think is the most engaging thing.
我就把AI给我的建议拿过来，再加以扩展和发挥。
So then I'll take that whatever they talk to give me, and I will then expand on it.
对。
Mhmm.
你可以把AI当成一位很有经验的老师来用。
So, I mean, you can use AI kind of like, you know, a well known teacher Yeah.
如果没了AI，谁还能帮你发挥出最好的状态呢？
Who would be there in place of AI that would be there to help you be the best you can be.
没错。
Absolutely.
这就是我对AI的看法。
And so that's the way I think of AI.
你也不希望它只是帮你做些琐碎的事情吧。
And and you don't want it just to do things that you you know, just for you.
我最近还让AI帮我找过车险，就是我那辆车在那个区域最划算的保险。
Like, crazy, the other thing I did recently is I asked AI to find me the best automobile insurance for my cars in that particular area.
为什么没人这么做呢？
Why doesn't everybody else do that?
这事儿太简单了。
It's so simple.
是啊。
Yeah.
它会给出一堆答案，还会附上来源，让你自己去查证。
And it comes up with all these answers, and then it gives you the sources so you can look back yourself and find it.
所以我觉得，AI就像一个聪明又靠谱的朋友。
So I think AI is like a a good, smart friend.
你对AI有这么积极的看法真好，很多人担心它会削弱我们的独立思考能力。
It's great that you have this positive relationship with AI because a lot of people are like, oh, it's gonna take away critical thinking.
他们还怕AI会抢走我们的工作。
It's gonna take away our jobs.
想想你现在的小孩，再过十年，AI会变得如此先进。
When you think about your grandkids that are growing up now and, like, in ten years, AI gonna is gonna be so advanced.
你有没有担心过，它会夺走他们的工作机会？
Like, are you ever worried it's gonna take their jobs or take opportunities from them?
我觉得，AI永远取代不了人类本身的工作。
You know, I don't think AI will ever take the jobs of being a human being.
对。
Mhmm.
因为人有自主性，能创造性地思考。
Because humans have agency, and they can think creatively.
而AI做不到这一点。
And AI cannot do that.
所以我觉得你得现实一点。
So I think you need to be realistic.
你可以让AI帮你，但不能让它取代你。
You want AI to support you, but you don't want it to be in place of you.
对。
Yeah.
很多人会问AI一些挺荒唐的问题。
So there there's a lot of kind of silly things that people ask AI to do.
不过我发现另一些用途特别有用，比如那些医疗类的AI平台。
But I think one of the other things that I've found really useful, there's all these medical AI sites.
你知道吗？
Do you know?
你可以问一些医疗方面的问题，特别有意思的是，它还会告诉你这个答案是从哪里来的。
And so you can ask a medical question, and it's actually incredibly interesting because it gives you the sources of where it comes up with that answer.
不用每次都打电话给医生，问一些琐碎的问题，医生本来就忙得不可开交。
Instead of calling your doctor and asking some question poor doctor is overloaded with silly questions.
是的。
Yeah.
明白了。
Okay.
对病人来说这些问题并不琐碎，但医生可能得一遍又一遍地重复同样的回答。
They're not silly to the patient, but the doctor's probably repeating themselves 20 times.
这样的话，医生就能更高效地应对这些常见问题了。
So this would really help doctors be able to answer these questions.
跟你聊聊你的TRICK系统吧——信任、尊重、独立、协作、善意。
Talk to me about your TRICK system, trust, respect, independence, collaboration, kindness.
一个已经成年、正在调整职业方向的人，该怎么在AI时代运用这个系统呢？
How can someone who's a grown up now trying to adjust, their career for this AI world, how should they use the system?
所以如果你是个成年人，不幸的是，这通常意味着你成长在一个不被信任的环境里。
So if you're an adult, unfortunately, what usually means is that you were brought up in a system where you're not trusted.
而当你长期不被信任，你就很难相信自己。
And so when you're not trusted, you don't believe in yourself.
因为孩子不一样，当你信任他们时，他们会想：我其实挺不错的。
Because what happens with kids is that when you trust them, they then think, oh, I'm pretty good.
我可以相信自己，相信自己的直觉。
I can trust myself and my own instincts.
所以成年人总在寻求外界的认可，是的。
So adults are always looking for outside confirmation Yeah.
他们需要确认自己是有价值的，如果得不到，就会感到沮丧，很遗憾这么说。
That they're And, you know, and if they don't get that, then they feel, you know, depressed, I'm sorry to say.
在运用TRICK原则方面，做得特别好的一家公司是谷歌。
And so one of the companies that does a really good job with the TRICK formula is Google.
谷歌之所以做得好，是因为他们真正信任自己的员工。
And Google does because basically what they do is they trust their employees.
他们招聘自认为最优秀的人，然后完全信任他们。
They hire what they consider the best, and then they trust them.
对。
Mhmm.
一旦员工感受到被信任和尊重，也就是说，你可以畅所欲言，表达自己的想法，也不会被人嘲笑。
So once the employee feels trusted and respected, in other words, you can speak up, say what you think, and nobody's gonna make fun of you.
这对公司的文化会产生巨大的影响。
It makes a huge difference in the culture of the company.
没错。
Yeah.
谷歌那些富有创意的想法，就是这样产生的。
And that's how all these creative ideas come through Google.
他们还有一个叫‘20%时间’的制度。
And they have this thing called the 20% time.
你听说过这个吗？
Have you heard about that?
当然了。
Absolutely.
你可以做任何你想做的事。
And you can do anything you want.
你可以申请一个20%的项目，然后去忙你真正想做的任何事情。
Well, you apply for a 20% project, and then you can work on whatever it is that you want.
我给你讲两个特别有名的20%项目。
So let me tell you two very famous 20% projects.
第一个，Gmail。
Number one, Gmail.
天啊，真的吗？
Oh, wow.
没了Gmail我们该怎么办？
What could we do without Gmail?
是的。
Yeah.
是的
Yeah.
另一个是地图应用。
Another one is maps.
这太了不起了。
That's amazing.
这些员工原本觉得自己没在做真正有创意的事，也不怕犯错，所以就想试试看新的、有创意的东西，结果就这么成了。
Can you believe so these are employees that were like, oh, I'm not doing anything as, you know, creative as I wish I could, and I'm not afraid to make a mistake.
于是我就想尝试点新东西、有创意的，事情就这么发生了。
And so I'm gonna try something new and creative, and that's how it happened.
这真让人着迷。
This is fascinating.
所以，大多数公司都特别死板。
So, you know, most companies are very rigid.
你知道的，这就是你的工作。
You know, this is your job.
照我说的去做。
Do what I tell you.
今天就是截止日。
This is the day it's due.
如果你完不成，那也只能怪你自己了。
And if if you can't finish it, well, that's too bad for you.
对。
Mhmm.
我觉得，如果公司想提高效率、激发创意，同时打造一支有支持力的团队，就应该践行我的这个TRICK原则。
I think if companies want to be productive, creative, and have a really supportive workforce, they should embody this TRICK principle of mine.
因为TRICK就是信任、尊重，让员工自主负责项目。
Because TRICK is trust, respect, and giving people independence to work on projects.
C代表协作。
Collaboration, the c is collaboration.
要互相协作。
Collaborate.
你知道吗？在八九十年代，甚至两千年初的学校里，从历史上看，孩子们从来都不被允许合作。
You know, in schools in the 1980s and 90s and even early two thousand, if you look back historically, kids were never supposed to collaborate.
一直都是要自己完成。
It was always do it yourself.
事实上，每学年开始时，学校都会给家长发通知：别帮你的孩子。
As a matter of fact, at the beginning of every school year, they sent out a notice to parents, Never help your kid.
别让他们跟朋友讨论自己在做什么。
Never let them talk to their friends about what they're doing.
一切都必须是个人表现。
It always has to be individual performance.
对。
Mhmm.
所以他们根本没在教孩子合作。
So they're not teaching collaboration.
那在现实世界里，哪里还有不合作的地方呢？
So where in the world don't they collaborate in the real world?
是的
Yeah.
因为两个人的智慧胜过一个人。
Because two brains are better than one.
完全正确。
100%.
还有善良。
And so and then kindness.
天啊，如果我们都能彼此友善一点该多好。
God, if we could all be kind to each other?
对。
Yeah.
在这个充满竞争的环境中。
In this competitive environment.
说到教育，你提到了信任，我们刚才也谈到了这些学校。
When it comes to education so you brought up trust, and we talked about these schools.
你懂的。
You know?
特别是，我来自一个完全不同的体系。
Especially, I'm from a completely different system.
天哪。
Oh, shit.
我们在学业上很强，但说到合作和信任，我上学那会儿根本就没有这回事。
We were very strong academically, but when it came to, like, collaboration and trust, that didn't really exist in my schooling system.
不过，我觉得我还是挺好的。
Although, I think I turned out okay.
你看起来挺正常的。
You look okay.
是的。
Yeah.
我看起来挺正常的。
I look okay.
我遇到过几位特别棒的老师，他们一直鼓励我、信任我。
I think I had a couple of great teachers who were really motivating me and trusting me Yeah.
对我的学习来说，是这样。
With what I was learning.
那么，作为成年人，该怎么重新建立对自己的信任呢？
So how do you regain trust in yourself as an adult?
首先，你得意识到，其实你并不相信自己。
Well, first of all, you have to be aware, first thing, that, you know, you aren't trusting yourself.
你还要明白，你总是靠别人的认可来获得自我价值感。
And you have to be aware of the fact that you're relying on other people's validation to make you feel good about yourself.
这就让你处于一种高度依赖的状态。
And that puts you in a very dependent position.
一旦得不到别人的肯定，你就容易陷入低落。
And if you don't get validated by other people all the time, then you get depressed.
而这种低落往往会让人转向酒精、药物，或者过度依赖他人和其他东西。
And the depression usually leads to alcohol or drugs or, you know, overly dependent on other people or other things.
所以你第一件事是要学会欣赏自己，别总把所有不如意的事都怪到自己头上。
And so the first thing you need to do is to appreciate yourself and to stop blaming yourself all the time for everything that goes wrong.
那具体该怎么做呢？
How how do you do that?
我之前准备这次访谈时读到，你教女儿们对犯错特别宽容，你的学生也是，把犯错当成过程的一部分。
Because I was just I was reading when I was preparing for this interview that you taught your daughters to be very easy with mistakes, like and your students as well, like, as part of the process.
首先，你得意识到，你小时候就是被这样教育的。
Well, first of all, you need to realize that that's how you were brought up.
所以你本能地就会回头责怪自己。
And so that that's your natural instinct is to go back and blame yourself.
是的。
Yeah.
然后你得停下来。
And then you have to stop it.
你得自己主动停下来。
You personally have to stop it.
别再责怪自己了。
Stop blaming yourself.
你知道那些去戒毒中心的吸毒者吗？你知道那些康复中心的成功率有多低吗？
And, you know, that's all these drug addicts that go to these, you know, rehab places, do you know what do you know what the success rate of those rehab centers is?
只有百分之十成功，百分之九十都失败了。
Ten percent, ninety percent failure.
因为他们没有帮那些人真正了解自己、相信自己。
And it's because they don't help those people understand themselves and believe in themselves.
他们只是在表面修修补补，没触及问题的根本。
They're they're just trying it's kind of like trying to fix the problem without getting to the essence of it.
对。
Mhmm.
因为那些人，他们就是觉得自己很差劲。
Because they all those people, they just they feel bad about themselves.
这种想法是从童年就开始形成的。
They learned that in childhood.
所以我特别关注童年，因为我们都希望下一代能更快乐、更互相支持、更懂得合作、更友善。
That's why I focus on the childhood because, you know, we want the next generation of people to be happier, more supportive, more collaborative, kinder to each other.
我们确实需要这样，因为面对气候问题，全人类都得齐心协力。
And we we just need that because for this for the world, we all need to work together on the climate issue.
对。
Mhmm.
而且正如你注意到的，我们现在根本没做好。
And we're not doing it now, as you noticed.
实际上，在美国，情况还在变得更糟。
And, actually, it's somehow in The US, it's getting worse.
是啊。
Yeah.
确实不容易。
It's just tough.
你说得一点都没错。
Exactly what you brought up.
我们就是这么被养大的。
We were raised this way.
你被教育要做自己。
You were raised to be yourself.
你为什么不多想想？
Why didn't you think more?
没错。
That's
对。
right.
我为什么不多想想？
Why didn't I think more?
下次，你大概就不会再往前迈一步去改善你的环境了。
So next time, you probably won't make another step to improving your space.
下次你连一步都不敢迈，确实如此。
Next time, you're afraid to even make a single step Exactly.
怕你又失败了。
For fear that you're going to fail again.
明白了。
Okay.
你平时怎么跟你的女儿们说？
What what what do you tell your daughters?
我很好奇，你三个女儿都很成功，当然她们也经历过艰难时刻。
Like, I wonder because all your three daughters, super successful, but, of course, they've had tough moments.
如果她们当中有人来找你，我知道安妮就遇到过FDA的大问题，还有那个丑闻。
If one of them came to you I know Anne has this huge problem with FDA and then, you know, this scandal.
她来找你的时候，你跟她说什么了？
When she came to you, what did you tell her?
第一，千万别放弃。
Number one thing is don't give up.
想办法走出来。
Figure out a way out of this.
你要学会怎么在不自我消耗的情况下，达成你想要的目标。
You know, figure out how you can get what you want without spending any time and energy beating yourself up.
她真的这么做了。
And she did.
她做到了别人觉得根本不可能的事。
You know, she accomplished what nobody thought was possible.
是的。
Yeah.
她接下来要做的，就是23andMe和那个研究机构的事。
And, you know, 23andMe, Research Institute, that's what she's going to do.
她想通过分析你的基因，来改善疾病的治疗效果，让所有人都能远离各种疾病。
She wants to use your DNA to improve disease outcome and protect everybody from all the diseases that they get.
我们目前特别关注非小细胞肺癌，因为苏珊就深受其害。
And of course, one of them that we're working on a lot is non small cell lung cancer because that impacted Susan.
所以我们成立了一个叫苏珊·沃西基基金会的组织。
And so we have a foundation called the Susan Wojcicki Foundation.
我们刚刚上线了。
We just launched.
目前已经投入了数百万美元在这件事上。
And we've got millions of dollars working on it.
当然，我们还需要更多捐款。
We need more donations, of course.
但我不知道你知不知道，非小细胞肺癌是全球女性头号死因。
But I don't know if you know, non small cell lung cancer is the number one killer of women in the world.
我打赌你根本想不到。
I bet you would never know.
这太令人震惊了。
That's crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得原因是我做了这么多播客，因为苏珊一直在我想采访的人名单里。
I think the reason, I've been so I've been doing so many podcasts because Susan was on my list.
哦。
Oh.
但她后来去世了。
But then she passed away.
是啊。
Oh, yeah.
于是我对自己说，我必须得开始了。
And then I told myself, like, I just have to start.
对。
Yes.
很好。
Good.
没错。
Yeah.
我感到非常自豪。
I'm very proud
为你感到骄傲。
of you.
这非常感人，而我今天能站在这里，全靠YouTube。
Very emotional, and YouTube is the reason I'm here.
所以，是这样的。
So, yeah.
谢谢你这样养育你的女儿。
Thank you for raising your daughter the way you did.
哦，没错。
Oh, yeah.
她们那时候只是小女孩，我总是告诉她们，不管做什么，就算没成功也没关系。
So, you know, they were just little girls, and I always made sure that whatever they did, if it didn't work out, it didn't matter.
大不了再试一次。
They could just do it again.
我上课时也是这么做的，这在当时其实是很超前的。
But that's what I did in my classes too, which was actually revolutionary.
所以我教的是英语、社会研究、数学或者新闻学这些课。
So an English class or social studies or math or journalism.
这些就是我教的课程。
Those are the classes I taught.
如果你考试没过，或者作文写得不好，都没关系。
If you failed a test or you did poorly on an essay, no problem.
再重做一遍就行。
Just do it again.
对。
Yeah.
再重做一遍就行。
Just do it again.
改到你做对为止。
Revise until you get it right.
对。
Yeah.
而且你知道，我从来不想让孩子们觉得自己很差劲。
And you know, I never tried to make kids feel bad.
我只是想，嗯，你可能没考虑到这一点，或者写得不够好，又或者花太多时间在这一部分上了。
I'm just like, well, you know, you didn't think about this or you didn't write this properly or you spent too much time on this part.
对。
Mhmm.
所以他们毕业后都表现得那么好，是因为他们开始相信自己了。
And so that's why they all did so well after they graduated because they were believing in themselves.
是的。
Yeah.
你有没有遇到过什么情况？因为你显然给了孩子们很大的责任，
Was was there any episode because you you're obviously giving kids a
很多
lot
他们也能独立行事。
of responsibility, and they're able to act by themselves.
回想我的童年，我父母替我选了专业，因为我本来想学英俄翻译。
Again, recalling my childhood, my parents chose my major because my instinct was I want to be a translator from English into Russian.
我真的很喜欢语言。
I really love languages.
我想学德语。
I want to study German.
他们却说，你知道吗？
And they're like, you know what?
选数学。
Mathematics.
我倒是喜欢数学，但还没到愿意花五年时间去钻研的地步。
I like mathematics, but not to the point of spending, like, five years learning it.
最后我们折中，选了经济和数学，英语则当了第二专业。
So we settled on economics and mathematics, and I did English as a second degree.
我现在很感激这个决定。
And I'm grateful for it.
我觉得吧，18岁的时候，我10岁那会儿还想着当歌手呢，人总是会变的。
Because I feel like at 18 years old, you know, when I was 10, wanted I to be a singer, then, you know, things change.
你觉得在什么情况下，父母该放手让孩子自己决定，又该在什么时候适当引导他们做对的选择？
When do you think is where's is there a line when you don't not like trust your kids, but you help them make the right decision or, like, you guide them?
我觉得提点建议没问题，父母也可以跟你说，也许当翻译并不是最好的选择。
I think it's okay for you to make suggestions, And it's Okay for your parents to tell you, well, maybe you shouldn't be a translator.
也许你可以考虑别的方向。
Maybe you should consider other things.
他们根本没说‘也许’，是直接定的。
They didn't say maybe.
对，我就是这个意思。
You're Yeah.
我说的是‘也许’，不是直接替你做决定。
Like, you I'm saying maybe.
你要做的，是给他们打开另一扇窗，看看还有哪些可能的方向。
And, you know, so what you wanna do is give them another idea on the horizon of what they might wanna do.
但如果他们没这么做，至少你已经尽力了。
But then if they don't do it, it's not at least you tried.
对。
Mhmm.
我带过一些学生，比如林书豪，那位篮球运动员。
So, you know, I've had some students, you know, like, for example, Jeremy Lin, basketball player.
你认识他吗？
Do you know who he is?
林书豪？
Lynn Sanity?
我听说过他。
I've I've heard of him.
挺有名的。
Big one.
对。
Mhmm.
展开剩余字幕（还有 411 条）
是的
Yeah.
当然，他的父母希望他上学，将来当律师、医生之类的。
So his parents, of course, wanted him to go to school and be, you know, a lawyer, a doctor, else like that.
但他想打篮球，而且他来自一个亚洲家庭。
And he wanted to be a basketball player, and he came from an Asian family.
你可以想象他们有多震惊。
You can imagine how excited they were.
对
Yeah.
但说实话，他们虽然给他压力，最后还是让他自己决定想做什么。
But they you know, to give them credit, you know, they put pressure on him, but then they let him decide to do what he wanted to do.
所以他最终在自己选择的职业上取得了成功。
And so he he's successful at his chosen career.
对
Mhmm.
我的意思是，我觉得这其实特别有意思。
I mean, I think that's actually really interesting.
你知道吗，苏珊，你有没有听说过她本科主修的是法语和英美文学与历史？
You know, Susan, for example, did you know she majored in French and English history and lit?
对。
Mhmm.
她一门计算机课都没选。
No computer.
她在整个大学四年里只选过一门计算机课。
She took one computer course in all four years of undergraduate.
一门。
One.
她从来没想过计算机会对她有什么吸引力。
And she never thought it was gonna be of interest to her.
对。
Mhmm.
但后来她选了这门课，结果自己都没想到居然这么有趣。
But then, you know, she took it, and then she was kind of shocked at how interesting it was.
如果我当时逼她，我觉得她根本不会有信心去钻研，也不会真正产生兴趣去做这些事。
But if I would have forced her, I think, you know, she wouldn't have had the self confidence to work on it or the actually, self interest to do what she was doing.
然后当然了，你知道吧，她刚加入谷歌的时候，是在自家车库里起步的。
And then, of course, you know, her plan you know, when she when Google started out in her garage
是的。
Yeah.
大概六个月后，他们正式雇了她，主要职责是想办法让谷歌赚钱。
Her main duty they hired her after six months or so.
她的主要任务就是找到让谷歌盈利的方法。
Her main duty was to find a way for Google to make money.
因为拉里和谢尔盖说，我们能搜到网上任何东西，任何东西。
Because Larry and Sergey said, we can find anything on the web, anything Mhmm.
但我们不知道该怎么赚钱。
But we don't know how to make money.
你能想象吗？
So can you imagine?
你一个人，却要为整个公司找到解决办法。
You're one person, and you're supposed to figure this out for this whole company.
当然，那时候公司还很小。
Of course, it was little then.
而且这还是个全新的领域。
And it's also it's brand new.
根本没人知道该怎么搞。
No one has really figured it out.
那时候还没人想出来。
Nobody had figured it out yet.
一个都没有。
Nobody.
她得自己琢磨出这套方法。
She had to come up with this.
所以她唯一能做的，就是相信自己和自己的想法。
So the only way she could do it is she had to believe in herself and her ideas.
埃丝特拆解了她的TRICK体系，讲的是这对你的职业生涯意味着什么，而不仅仅是对孩子。
Esther broke down her TRICK system, what it actually means for your career, not just your kids.
完整的解析都在本周的《未来可期》通讯里。
The full breakdown is in this week's future proof newsletter.
链接在简介里。
Link is in the description.
你的所有女儿都在做完全不同的事，这真有意思。
So all your daughters are doing completely different things, which is so fascinating.
你得为每个女儿调整你的方法吗，还是就顺其自然，让她们自己发展？
Did you have to adjust your system for each of them, or you just go with the flow and they just do
她们都做了自己想做的事。
They all got to do whatever they wanted to do.
简的职业路径可能是最特别的，她一开始学的是国际关系。
I mean, Janet's career is probably the most interesting because she's first started out as an international relations major.
她最初是在斯坦福大学的一个叫乌吉马的宿舍开始的。
She actually first started out in a house called Ujima at Stanford.
那是为黑人学生设立的宿舍。
It was the Black student's house.
对。
Mhmm.
但她本人并不是黑人，这还挺特别的。
And then she wasn't Black, so this was kind of interesting.
拿到国际关系学位后，她去了加州大学洛杉矶分校，又修了一个非裔美国人研究的学位。
Then after her degree in international relations, she went on to UCLA and got another degree in African American studies.
你拿这个学位打算做什么？
What are you going to do with that?
说实话，我也不知道她后来怎么想的——但接着，她又去读了医学人类学的学位。
I mean, I have no idea what she- but then, you know, then she went on to get another degree in in medical anthropology.
她拿到的学位多得简直让人难以置信。
I mean, she just she has more degrees than you can believe.
她跟你说要再读一个学位的时候，你有没有觉得这根本没必要？
Was there when she came to you saying, like, I'm gonna get another degree another, have you ever had thoughts like, this is unnecessary.
你觉得她根本不该这么做吗？
She shouldn't be doing that?
没有。
No.
我应该支持她。
I should.
如果你的女儿们也这样，你有没有过类似的想法？
For any of your daughters, have you ever had these thoughts?
觉得学这么多没什么用？
Like, nothing to get
跟你说这些？
this to you?
还真没有。
Not really.
我从来没这么想过。
I never did.
比如安妮，她在耶鲁主修分子生物物理学。
So Anne, for example, majored in molecular biophysics at Yale.
但说到底，这也没关系，因为她毕业时根本没找到工作。
But, anyway, it didn't matter because then I mean, when she graduated, she didn't have a job.
大多数父母都会急得不行。
Most parents would freak out.
是啊。
Yeah.
事实上，她回家住了。
As a matter of fact, she came home.
我就问她：那你现在打算怎么办？
And then I said, so now what are you gonna do?
她说：我想去当保姆。
And she's like, I think I wanna babysit.
你当时是什么反应？
What was your reaction?
你对这事有什么反应？
What was your reaction to that?
我当时就说，天哪。
I was like, my god.
真的吗？
Really?
我的意思是，你去耶鲁之前本来就可以做这个。
I mean, perhaps you could have done that before you went to Yale.
哇。
Wow.
于是她做了三个月的保姆。
And so she babysat for three months.
我当时就说，天哪。
And I was like, oh my god.
这事儿还得持续多久啊？
Is how long is this gonna go on?
你跟她说过吗？还是根本就没说？
Did you tell her that, Or was it just because No.
我没跟她说。
I didn't tell her.
不过有一天我跟她说，圣克拉拉会展中心有个招聘会。
But what I said one day is I you know, there's job fair at Santa Clara Convention Center.
你不妨去看看。
Maybe you would like to check it out.
挺有意思的。
Interesting.
她就去了，当天就回来了。
And so she went and came back the same day, of course.
然后我就问，你找到什么了吗？
And then I said, well, did you find anything?
她说，不了。
And she's like, no.
没什么合心意的。
Don't like anything.
算了，别提了。
Oh, never mind.
我倒是发现一家公司，可能还蛮有意思的。
I did find one company that might be a little interesting.
结果那家公司真的给她打了电话。
Sure enough, that company called her.
他们说，想请你去纽约面谈。
And then they was like, we'd like to bring you to New York for an interview.
她回答，我不太确定要不要去。
And she was like, I don't know about that.
你懂的，我得照顾好几个孩子呢。
You know, I have all these babies I'm taking care of.
你懂的。
You know?
去纽约面试。
Go to New York for an interview.
所以呢，她去的原因是他们给她安排了一家高档酒店。
So anyway, the reason she went is they put her up at this fancy hotel.
这理由挺充分的。
That's a good reason.
她本来就想住那家酒店。
She wanted to go to the hotel.
真不错。
Nice.
最后她到了，他们对她进行了面试。
And then finally, she got there, and they interviewed her.
他们说：好。
And they're like, yes.
我们挺喜欢你的。
We like you.
结果她也挺喜欢他们的。
And turns out she liked them too.
所以她就这样找到了第一份工作。
So that's how she got her first job.
这真是太棒了。
That is awesome.
她根本没打算找工作。
Very she was not in the market for getting a job.
纯属意外。
It was just an accident.
是的。
Yeah.
再给你个小建议。
And just a little suggestion from you.
我想知道，如果你是一位妈妈，你会怎么告诉我呢？
I wonder, what would you tell me as a mom?
因为说实话，我小时候被教育的方式完全不同。
Because, again, I was raised in a different way.
没错。
Right.
我想用美国的方式，或者说是放手的方式，来带孩子。
I want to raise my kids, I guess, the American way or the wash way.
对。
Yes.
如果我总觉得自己更懂，那该怎么学会相信孩子呢？
How do you teach me to trust my kids if I always think I know better?
你可以试着提一些建议。
Well, what you do is you can make suggestions.
对。
Mhmm.
但这些只是建议而已。
But then they're just suggestions.
不是非得按我的方式来。
They're not you have to do it my way.
所以这些提议，你可以给孩子提供各种不同的选择。
So the suggestions, you know, you can give them lots of different opportunities.
再说珍妮特，她排行中间，我觉得她稍微更固执一点。
Again, with Janet, Janet was was she was in the middle, so I think she was more demanding a little bit.
她四岁的时候就决定要上幼儿园，尽管规定得五岁才行。
She decided when she was four years old that she wanted to go to kindergarten, even though you had to be five years old to go.
我当时真不知道该怎么办。
And I didn't know what to do.
我说，你不能去公立学校，他们不会收你。
I was like, you can't go to public school because it won't take you.
她特别坚持。
She was very persistent.
天哪。
Wow.
所以我让她去了洛斯阿爾托斯山的一所私立学校上幼儿园。
So I'd let her go to a private school in Los Altos Hills for kindergarten.
我当时心想，天啊。
And I thought, oh my god.
她会是班上最小的孩子。
She's gonna be the youngest in the class.
我真不知道她能不能跟得上。
Is she ever gonna be I don't know.
结果她成了班上成绩最好的学生。
She turned out to be the best student in the class
四岁的时候。
at four.
你尊重了她的意愿？
And you followed her instinct?
我听从了她的直觉。
I followed her instinct.
当你为孩子做这样的决定时，他们自然就会相信自己。
So, of course, when you do something like that for a child, they then believe in themselves.
是的。
Yeah.
而且你知道，她一直不断突破各种里程碑，表现得特别出色。
And, you know, she she continued to break all these milestones or have all these milestones that were kind of remarkable.
她就是坚信自己，结果一切都顺利了。
And she just believed in herself, and it worked out.
这真是太让人着迷了。
This is so fascinating.
居然敢让一个四岁的孩子做这样的决定。
Trusting your four year old with a decision.
居然敢信任一个四岁的孩子做这种事。
Trusting a four year old with that.
在这件事上投入了不少钱。
Investing money in that.
没错。
That's right.
为此花了不少钱。
It cost me a lot Yeah.
真的花了不少钱。
To do that.
然后她直接升入了一年级，成了班上最聪明的孩子。
And then she moved right into first grade and turned out to be the smartest kid in the class in first grade.
这时候我才想，也许你当初是对的，而我错了。
And it's like, Okay, maybe you were right and I was wrong.
对吧？
Right?
是的。
Yeah.
所以，给孩子机会让他们表达自己，尝试他们想做的事。
So give your child an opportunity to make a statement and to try things that they want to try.
如果一个人从小被用不同的方式教育，就像我们大多数人那样，那即使从小被灌输了完全不同的观念，还能不能重新塑造自己呢？
If somebody was raised in a different way, like most of us are raised in a different way, is there a chance to reinvent yourself even if you were taught a completely different thing?
可以。
Yes.
有机会的。
There's a chance.
但最关键的是，你要把这件事提升到意识层面。
But the main thing you have to do is put it on the conscious level.
你得明白，每当你因为做决定而对自己感到不满时，其实都是因为小时候被灌输的那些观念在作祟。
You have to realize that whenever, you know, you start to feel bad about yourself making a decision, it's because of how you were trained when you were young.
对。
Mhmm.
所以你要对自己说：我要相信自己。
And so you're gonna say to yourself, I am going to believe in myself.
你知道吗，就算我这儿错了、那儿也错了，我依然会为自己敢于尝试而感到骄傲。
You know, even if I make a mistake here or make a mistake there, I'm still going to give myself credit for trying.
对。
Yeah.
你得对自己温柔一点。
You just have to be nice to yourself.
大多数人根本不会去关心自己，说实话。
Most people don't even think of themselves, honestly.
他们总在担心邻居会怎么说，亲戚会怎么讲，老师又会怎么评价。
They're worried about, you know, what the neighbor says, what relatives are gonna say, you know, what the teacher's gonna say.
我当老师时最特别的地方就在于，你根本不可能做错事。
And that was what was revolutionary about me about as a teacher is you could never do it wrong.
你只需要不断调整就行了。
You just had to revise.
这真的太有意思了，希望听到这些的人能真正采纳这种心态。
This is absolutely fascinating, and I hope that people who are listening are gonna deploy that mindset.
因为说实话，我现在也在反思自己对待错误的方式。
Because definitely, like, I'm thinking about the way I think about my mistakes.
这确实是个挺有意思的练习。
This is, yeah, this is an interesting exercise.
说到教育，还有你现在看到的AI发展，你觉得在今天这个年代，家长还该不该鼓励孩子上大学？
When it comes to education and with what you're seeing in AI, do you think parents should be saving or pushing for college in today's age?
我觉得大学依然重要，因为很多人觉得现在没必要上大学了。
So the reason I think college is still important because people think, oh, we don't need college anymore.
网上什么都能学到。
They can get it all online.
大学能让你有机会锻炼与人相处的能力。
College is an opportunity for you to hone your interaction with other human beings' skills.
它也是你成长的好机会。
It it's an opportunity for you to grow.
18到22岁这段时间，你有很多成长的空间。
Between the ages of 18 and 22, you have a lot of growing to do.
如果你不跟别人互动，就根本没法培养这些能力。
And if you don't interact with other people, you aren't gonna get those skills.
对。
Mhmm.
所以，AI教育永远替代不了大学。
So you're never going to be able to substitute college with an AI education.
这根本行不通。
It's just never gonna work.
举个例子，你年纪大了需要人帮忙，你是希望一个机器人来帮你，还是希望一个有感情的人来帮你？
It's just like, for example, you know, as an older person and you wanna have somebody help you, do you want a robot to help you, or do you want somebody with feelings to help you?
是的。
Yeah.
我个人可不想要机器人。
I mean, I personally don't want a robot.
你懂的。
You know?
我希望能有个人能跟我聊聊。
I'd like to have somebody who I can talk to.
公司在这一点上也是一样的。
But it's the same thing in a company.
你不想整天跟机器人打交道吧。
You don't wanna just work with robots.
你更想跟真人一起工作。
You wanna work with other human beings.
对。
Mhmm.
这就是上大学的意义所在。
So that's what college is for.
它是个让你成长的机会。
It's an opportunity to grow.
这四年在你的人生里特别重要。
And those four years are really important in your life.
你觉得父母应该多陪孩子做些什么？
What what do you think parents should be doing more with their kids?
让他们去尝试各种不同的活动。
Letting them try all different kinds of activities.
他们想踢足球、打网球，或者别的什么都行。
They wanna play soccer, tennis, or, you know, it doesn't matter.
冰安是自己决定去滑冰的，后来成了专业滑冰选手。
Ice Anne decided to do ice skating by herself, and she became a competitive ice skater.
我的意思是，这主意不是我出的。
I mean, this wasn't my idea.
这是她自己的想法。
This was her idea.
但她有没有想过放弃呢？
Did she ever want to give up, though?
因为我的孩子也开始学滑冰了。
Because my my kids also started taking ice skating.
但上了五节课后，他们就说不干了。
But then five classes in, they're like, we're done.
如果
If
他们想继续，我就支持他们继续。
they wanna continue, I encourage them to continue.
但如果他们真觉得不想做了，那是他们的生活。
But if they decided they really don't wanna do it, it's their life.
那就换个项目试试。
Just start another thing.
那就换个项目试试。
Just start another thing.
我觉得我孩子想要的东西太多了。
I feel like my kids, they want a lot of things.
他们一开始都挺积极，但上了第四节课就放弃了，要么是不喜欢老师，要么觉得太有竞争压力。
They start them, and then they give up after class four because they either don't like a teacher or it's too competitive.
或者我女儿总会找到别的事情做。
Or, like, my daughter will always find something.
你可以跟她聊聊，有时候确实竞争很激烈，但重要的是你是在为自己学习。
Well, so you can talk to her about you know, sometimes it's really competitive, but you personally are learning to do it for you.
对。
Mhmm.
不是因为隔壁的小女孩也在做。
Not because, you know, the little girl down the street is doing it.
这些年来，随着科技发展，你教育孩子的方式有变化吗？还是觉得跟以前差不多？
All of these years, has your approach to raising kids changed at all with new technology, or do you think it's still the same as it was?
我觉得大体上没变，只是科技给了我更多帮助，因为它给孩子提供了更多机会。
I think it's pretty much the same as it was, only technology helps me more because it gives kids more opportunities.
你看，选择确实很多，但我并不赞成让五岁以下的孩子用iPad或手机。
You know, there's a lot of choice, but I wouldn't I'm against letting little kids use iPads or phones before the age of five Mhmm.
因为他们需要学会与人互动，也需要学会与周围环境互动。
Because they need to learn to interact with each other and need to learn to interact with the environment.
我自己也做过一些研究，发现要想真正学会读写，还是得在纸上写。
And I also I've done research myself, and I realized that, you know, in order to really learn to write and to read, you know, you have to write on paper.
对。
Mhmm.
要是用iPad打字答题，根本记不住。
If you type answers on an iPad, you don't remember.
只有亲手写下来，才会记得住。
You remember when you write it.
你知道吗？这中间是有区别的。
Did you know there's a difference?
是的。
Yeah.
这可是对大脑特别重要的一项能力。
It's a very it's a very important skill for our brains.
没错。
It is.
所以我不支持在孩子小时候使用iPad之类的设备。
So I I'm not in favor of using iPads or any of those things in the early years.
我觉得还是用纸笔和书本这类传统方式更好。
I think it's better to use paper and pencil and books and things like that.
但如果孩子有阅读障碍，技术的好处就在于，那些他们读起来吃力的书，可以被朗读出来。
But if you have a child that has, like, dyslexia, has problems reading, the great thing about technology is that that book that they're struggling with, it can actually be read out loud to them.
可以变成动画片的形式。
As a cartoon.
可以变成动画片的形式。
As a cartoon.
而且它也可以直接以文字朗读，让孩子跟着听，学会阅读——比如有阅读障碍、注意力缺陷或多动症等情况的孩子。
And so but it can also just be read as a text, and you can follow along and learn how to if you have dyslexia, for example, or ADD or ADHD or whatever, all those designations.
是的。
Yeah.
所以现在应对这些学习差异，确实比以前容易多了。
So I think it's it's easier to cope with those learning differences now.
我特别赞同你提到的，有些家长觉得孩子非得上最好的学校不可。
And I really liked what you said that some parents think that their kids should go to the best school ever.
再说，在我老家圣彼得堡，有几所学校学术水平高得惊人。
And, again, this in my culture, like, there were a couple of schools in Saint Petersburg that were, like, mind blowingly strong academics.
但问题来了，孩子反而开始怀疑自己。
But then it comes to kids losing trust in themselves.
我觉得最好的学校，是让孩子学会相信自己的学校，而不是一味追求表演那些花架子，比如一年级就会代数之类的。
I think the best school is a school where the kids learn to believe in themselves, not learn to do perform all these tricks, you know, which are really, I can do algebra in first grade.
你说是吧？
You know?
说实话，你这一生还长着呢。
Honestly, you have a whole lifetime.
这些东西迟早都能学会。
You can learn it.
你说是吧？
You know?
但我要说，对成年人来说，你可以教他们这些学术技能，但没法改变他们的性格。
But let me tell you, with an adult, you can teach them all these academic skills, but you cannot change their personality.
对。
Mhmm.
你没法让他们相信自己。
You cannot teach them to believe in themselves.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很难。
It's really hard.
确实不容易。
It's tough.
确实不容易。
It's tough.
我能教这些，所以你想象一下我教过多少东西？
I can teach that's why I can you imagine all the stuff I taught?
我教过代数、几何、历史和英语。
I taught algebra, geometry, history, English.
只要是知识，我都能教给任何人，因为我的理念就是：人人都能学会。
I could teach anything to anybody because the the philosophy was you can learn it.
我不在乎你上几年级、多大年纪，只要愿意学，就能学会。
I don't care, you know, what grade you are or how old or can learn it.
可能需要反复复习几次，五次，或者更多，这都没关系。
You just might have to revise a couple times or maybe five times or whatever.
是的。
Yeah.
你一手带大了三个成功的女儿，自己也是个成功女性，你觉得在这个社会里，女性取得成功要付出的代价是不是不公平，而且没人敢提？
Raising three successful women, being a successful woman yourself, do you think we pay an unfair price for being successful in this society that people don't talk about?
你说的不公平的代价，是指什么？
So, like, an unfair price?
比如说，作为一个女性。
Like If you're a woman.
因为我不确定。
Because I don't know.
我觉得孩子还是更依赖妈妈。
I feel like kids, they still lean towards the mother.
对吧？
Right?
但你在职场上，其实是在和男人竞争。
But you actually but at work, you're competing with men.
你有没有觉得这其中有一种平衡？你会给那些因为有家庭、觉得自己天生就要多付出的女性什么建议？
Do you ever feel that there's this balance, and what would you tell to women who feel that they have to put extra work because they have family and, like, they're built in a different way?
你从来没跟女儿们聊过这个吧？
Or you never talk about that with your daughters.
没有。
No.
我其实聊过。
I did talk about that.
比如安妮的第一份工作，她是生物科技基金的负责人。
You know, the like, for example, the first job Anne had, she was the head of a biotech fund.
她走进房间的时候，
She came into the room.
里面全是男人。
They were all men in the room.
那是在纽约市。
Then this is in New York City.
对。
Mhmm.
有个男人对她说，我们得加点咖啡。
And they one of the guys said to her, we need more coffee.
他们以为她是服务员。
They assumed that she was the waitress.
是啊。
Yeah.
这让你感觉怎么样？
So how does that make you feel?
对吧？
Right?
于是安当场就说了，我是你们的同事。
So Anne said right then and there, I'm one of your colleagues.
我不是服务员。
I am not the waitress.
他们有什么反应？
What was their reaction?
她跟你说了吗？
Did she tell me?
他们有点震惊，但这件事还真管用了。
They were kinda shocked, but that it worked.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得作为女性，你得明白，世界上大部分职场还是由男性主导的，你得学会和男性共事。
And I think you need to realize as a woman that the majority of the world is work world is still men, and you need to be able to work with men.
而且在当今社会，男性们要开放得多。
And in today's world, men are much more accepting.
我刚当记者的时候是上世纪七十年代，你知道吗？我连旧金山记者俱乐部都进不去。
I mean, back when I first started as a journalist in the nineteen seventies, do you know I could not get into the San Francisco press club?
那时候美国任何一家记者俱乐部我都进不了。
I couldn't get into any of the press clubs in The US.
真的吗？
Oh, wow.
女性是被禁止入内的。
Women were banned.
新闻业那时候是男人的天下。
Journalism was a man's profession.
真的吗？
Oh, wow.
那时候就是那样，没办法。
So, you know, that was just the way it was.
我其实很想抗争一下。
I would like to have fought that.
但我选择的方式是，好吧。
But instead, the way I fought it is I said, okay.
我当不了记者。
I can't be a journalist.
那我就教这些孩子新闻，让他们去实现我真正想做的事。
I'll teach all these kids journalism, and they can all do what I really wanted to do.
结果还真成功了。
And it worked.
对。
Mhmm.
所以你找到了自己的路。
So you you found a way.
我觉得大多数情况下你都能找到办法，只要你别一上来就觉得自己一无是处。
I was gonna say you can find a way in most situations as long as you're not your first reaction is how terrible I am.
先别老责怪自己，然后想想怎么用点创意来解决问题。
You stop beating up yourself and then think about a creative way to solve the problem.
你对那些想多生孩子、组建家庭，却又觉得两者根本没法兼顾的女性会说什么？
What would you say to women who want to have more kids or want to start a family, but they think it's almost impossible to combine both?
比如说，我正在考虑要第三个孩子。
Like, I'm thinking about a third kid.
我孩子现在四岁和六岁。
My kids are four and six.
我就想，哎呀，这两个已经够我忙的了。
And I'm like, they're already so much.
有时候我妈妈会说，你别活得这么累。
And sometimes, like, my mom tells me, just don't, like, live a life.
你干嘛非得再要一个呢？
Just why why do you need another one?
你对像我这样的女性有什么建议？
What would you say to women like me?
如果你还想再要一个，这是个不能错过的时机，因为十年后你可就没这个机会了。
Well, if you want to have another one, this is an opportunity that you can't pass up because you can't do it ten years from now.
是的。
Yeah.
所以你完全可以做到。
So you can do it.
另外，你得明白，第三个、第四个、第五个孩子，其实都一样。
Also, the other thing you need to realize is the third, fourth, fifth, whatever.
苏珊就生了五个孩子。
Susan had five kids.
后面的孩子反而更轻松，因为你有经验了，而且大孩子会照顾小的。
They're easier because you know what you're doing, and the older kids take care of the younger kid.
所以没你想象的那么难。
So it's not as hard as you think.
如果你请了保姆，她一个人就能照看三个或四个孩子。
And if you're hiring a nanny, the nanny can take care of three kids or four kids.
这主要看你家有几个孩子。
It just depends on the number of kids you have.
我想我最后一个问题是给那些在国外观看的人：他们可能在想，好吧。
I think one of my last questions would be for someone who's watching from abroad, and they're thinking, okay.
他们听着这些关于信任孩子的话题，但自己身处硅谷。
They're talking about these things and trusting kids, etcetera, but they're in Silicon Valley.
那里的现实完全不一样。
It's a different type of reality.
在我们国家，整个社会的运作方式跟我们刚才说的截然不同，我能做些什么呢？
What can I do in my country when the whole society just functions in a way that is completely different from what we're talking about?
我觉得最大的区别在于，成年人一旦犯错，整个圈子都会严厉指责。
So I think the main way that is different is the adult community is very condemning when you make a mistake.
确实如此。
Oh, totally.
因为他们是在那种文化里长大的。
Because they grew up with that culture.
所以一旦出错，犯错的人就会惹上麻烦。
And so whenever there's a mistake, whoever made the mistake gets sort of, you know, in trouble.
我觉得硅谷的这种文化是允许失败、鼓励调整的，所以我一直信奉：快速失败，及时调整。
And I think this culture of Silicon Valley is it's okay to fail and revise so that my philosophy was fail fast and revise.
后来马克·扎克伯格把它改了，他说的是：快速失败，永不言败。
And then Mark Zuckerberg took it, and he said, I think it was fail fast and fail no.
快速行动，打破常规。
Move fast, break things.
快速行动，打破常规。
Move fast, break things.
所以我把‘打破常规’这部分去掉了。
So the break things, I removed.
其实是他加的，但我并不认同这一点。
Or, actually, he added it, but I didn't agree with that.
对。
Mhmm.
因为我觉得快速行动、犯错、然后调整，这没什么问题。
Because I think it's okay to move quickly, make a mistake, and then revise.
不断调整，直到做对为止。
And continue to revise until you get it right.
是的。
Yeah.
你看看安妮在23andMe上是怎么做的。
I mean, just look what Anne did with 23andMe.
不断调整，直到做对为止。
Continue to revise until you get it right.
对。
Yeah.
还有苏珊，她也是这么做的，不断调整谷歌的盈利模式，直到找到正确的方法。
And then Susan also did the same thing, revise with the how to make money for Google until she got it right.
YouTube 就是这方面一个绝佳的例子。
And I mean, YouTube is an incredible example of that.
在 YouTube 出现之前，她搞的是个叫 Google Video 的东西。
Before YouTube, she had what was called Google Video.
我打赌你从来没听说过。
I bet you never heard of it.
没听过。
No.
根本没人听说过。
No one heard of it.
是的。
Mhmm.
但他们花了十亿美元去开发 Google Video。
But she spent they spent a billion dollars making Google Video.
后来她不得不向董事会承认，这东西根本行不通，然后她发现了一个特别合适的公司，想花十一亿美元把它买下来。
And then she had to admit to the board that it didn't work, never would work, and she had found another company that was perfect, and she wanted to buy it for $1,100,000,000.
你能想象吗？
Can you imagine?
这真是个大错。
That is a mistake.
你能想象这个错误有多大吗？
Can you imagine the size of that mistake?
是的。
Yeah.
但结果却成了最明智的选择。
But it turned out the best bet.
她就这么做了。
She did it.
对。
Yeah.
她成功说服了他们，这成了有史以来最英明的决定，因为现在它是全球最大的视频平台。
And she convinced them, and that was the best bet ever because it's the largest video platform in the world.
是的。
Yeah.
每天有一十亿次下载。
There's a billion downloads per day.
对。
Yeah.
还成就了无数人的事业。
And so many careers built.
成千上万的人靠YouTube成了网红、明星，各种各样的人。
So many careers, so many people that are influencers and YouTube, you know, stars and things.
它改变了世界。
It changed the world.
我觉得你成长过程中那些理念，已经深深融入了这个平台——因为它真正关心创作者，是最有温度的平台，充满善意。
And I think a lot of your upbringing principles are we woven into that platform because how the platform cares about creators, it's the best caring platform, the kindness.
我觉得谷歌是唯一一家，我遇到的人会告诉我，我在这家公司干了二十多年了。
And I think Google is the only company where I meet people, and they tell me, I've been working for this company for twenty plus years.
就是有太多人因为认同公司的价值观而长期留在这里。
It's just the incredible amount of people who stay loyal to the company just because of their values and sense of
因为这里很有人情味。
Because it's kind.
谷歌是真的在乎员工。
They Google actually cares about people.
你知道的。
You know?
他们全天候提供餐饮。
They have food twenty four hours a day.
员工生病了，现场就有医生。
They have a doctor on-site if you're sick.
还有牙医随时待命。
They have a dentist on-site.
甚至还有干洗服务在公司里。
They have dry cleaning on-site.
我的意思是，公司提供这么多便利服务来帮员工解决问题。
I mean, they've got all this stuff on-site to help you.
而且如果你遇到困难，他们也会主动帮你。
And if you have a problem, they'll also help you.
他们不会像其他公司那样责备你。
They don't condemn you like other companies do.
对了，你懂俄语吗？
By the way, do you speak Russian at all?
能说几句吗？
Can you say something?
我
My
我妈妈会说俄语
my mother spoke Russian
哦，这样啊。
Oh, okay.
对我来说。
To me.
你来自新西伯利亚。
You are from Novosibirsk.
新西伯利亚。
Novosibirsk.
好的。
Okay.
对。
Yeah.
我本来想看看你能不能说几句俄语，因为会说俄语的妈妈们都很担心孩子的未来，不过……
I wanted to see if you could, say something in Russian to, Russian speaking moms are afraid of their kids' future, but
不行。
No.
我说不出来。
I can't.
我不够好。
I'm not good enough.
我可以先练习一下，然后为你讲一遍。
I could practice a little bit, and then I could say it for you.
好的。
Okay.
行吧。
Alright.
我们得安排一次练习。
We need we need a practice session.
好的。
Okay.
最后一次了。
One last yeah.
咱们跟那些担心孩子因人工智能而失去未来的妈妈们说几句吧，现在网上到处都是视频说你会丢掉工作，你会怎么对她们说？
Let's let's just say to all the moms who worried about their kids' future because of AI because there are so many videos saying, like, you're gonna lose your job, what would you say to those moms?
我觉得他们不该总担心，因为担心本身会让人沮丧，还消耗精力。
I think they should stop worrying because I think worry itself makes you depressed and takes away your energy.
你的孩子会好好的。
And your child is gonna be okay.
你应该教他们独立思考，相信自己，别害怕犯错。
You wanna teach them to think independently and to trust themselves and not be afraid of making a mistake.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你总是忧心忡忡，就做不出好的决定。
And then you can't make good decisions if you're constantly worried.
如果你总害怕出错，根本没法做出明智的选择。
You can't make good decisions if you're always petrified about making a mistake.
非常感谢你，埃斯特。
Thank you so much, Esther.
太棒了。
It was amazing.
能和你聊这么一回，我真开心。
I'm so happy we had this conversation.
谢谢你过来。
Thank you for coming.
我也特别开心。
I am very happy too.
只要能帮到几个人，我就心满意足了。
If I can just help a few people, I'll be very happy.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
我还想帮更多人。
I'd like to help even more.
拜托了。
Please.
如果你以后有空，再写一本书吧。
And let let please do another book if you ever have time for it.
我知道你，你啊，你
I know you oh, you
认识你
know you
你有一部纪录片要上映。
have a documentary coming out.
哦，我有一部纪录片。
Oh, I have a documentary.
片名叫《硅谷教母》。
It's called The Godmother of Silicon Valley.
现在它开始参加影展了。
And so now it's entering competitions.
目前还不能在欧洲全境放映，但马上就要发布了。
It can't be shown all over Europe yet, but it's coming out.
这部纪录片特别棒的地方在于，它真实地展现了我，同时也收录了我的学生们讲述，我是如何通过课堂改变他们的人生的。
And it's what's good about this documentary is it's it's really me, but then it's also my students talking about what I did in the class that changed their lives.
如果你认识正在养孩子、却不知道什么才是真正重要的人，把这部片子推荐给他们。
If you know someone raising kids right now and wondering what actually matters, send them this.
或者那些在工作中渐渐失去自信的人。
Or someone at work who stopped trusting themselves.
是同一个话题，只是面对的问题不一样。
Same conversation, different problem.
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