安德鲁·休伯曼

我会说，如果你正在对抗某种疾病，或者感觉快要生病了，那就用热疗，比如桑拿、热水澡或任何对你有效的方式。

I would say if you're battling something or you feel like you're coming down with something, use heat, sauna, hot shower, hot bath, whatever it is that works for you.

但是

But

那又怎么样呢？

How about that?

当你开始感觉不适时，应该放弃冷水刺激，因为这是一种非常强烈的应激源。

I would drop the cold as you're getting into something that because it's a very potent stressor.

是的。

Yeah.

关于热疗，如果温度过高，它也可能成为一种应激源。

The thing about heat is if it's too hot, it can also be a stressor.

我的意思是，当你健康的时候，用桑拿来提高心率、适度挑战身体是很好的。

I mean, when you're healthy, using the sauna as a way to get your heart rate up and kinda push it in there a little bit is good.

顺便说一句，一个小贴士：如果你在头上盖条毛巾，或者你注意过俄罗斯的蒸浴者，他们

By the way, useful tip, if you put a towel over your head or, you know, you'll notice that Russian bonyas, they

戴那种小帽子，我有个桑拿帽。

wear those little I have a a sauna hat.

是的。

Yeah.

它能为你的大脑隔热，让你能待得更久。

It insulates your brain from the heat so you can stay in longer.

想出去的冲动是大脑的反应，除非温度真的非常高。

The impulse to get out is a brain thing, not unless it's very, very hot.

好的。

Alright.

这是个烫伤的问题。

A burn thing.

而且，当然了，如果男性希望在接下来的九十天内生育孩子，因为精子生成周期是九十天。

And then, of course, if men men want to conceive children in the next ninety days because of the ninety days spermatogenesis cycle.

如果你要进桑拿房，就需要放一个冷敷包。

If you're going into the sauna, you need to put a cold packet.

guys，你们的生殖器都长到短裤外面了。

You're growing outside your shorts, guys.

如果你不想要孩子，也别把这当成一种绝对可靠的避孕方法。

If you don't want children, also don't use this as as a surefire way to avoid having children.

你知道的，很多意外都可能发生。

It's, you know, many accidents.

是的。

Yeah.

你得把睾丸泡在冰里，你得这么做。

You gotta stick your nuts in ice, Like, you're you're gonna

等等。

Wait.

你是说桑拿会降低你的精子数量吗？

You're saying that the sauna will will will will cut your sperm count?

高温和精子绝对不搭，这就是为什么我们要讲到解剖学，为什么阴囊能伸缩，靠近身体。

Absolute heat heat and sperm, not a good combo, which is why we're getting to anatomy here, which is why the scrotum can can extend and contract closer to the body.

这是为了维持精子生成的最佳温度。

It's to maintain the optimal temperature for spermatogenesis.

那怎么样？

How about that?

是的。

Yeah.

因此，如果你在备孕前的90天内频繁进入桑拿房或泡热水澡，会减少高度活跃精子的数量。

And so if you go in a sauna or a hot bath quite a bit in the ninety days prior to trying to conceive, you're going to limit the number of highly mobile sperm.

话虽如此，我确信很多孩子都是在桑拿房、热水澡和高温环境下 conceived 的。

That said, I'm sure many children have been conceived in saunas and hot baths and in hot conditions.

热水浴缸。

Hot tubs.

但这是平均情况。

But this is on average.

对吧？

Right?

不予评论。

No comment.

不予评论。

No comment.

天啊，我现在早就该有好多孩子了。

God, I would have had tons of kids by now.

让我们回到您刚才说的，医生，关于尼古丁的问题，我们的一位联合主持人正在嚼他的尼古丁口香糖，请详细说说。

Now let's let's get back to what you were saying, doctor, about please expand on nicotine as one of our cohosts here chews his Nicorette gum.

好的。

Sure.

那是尼古丁口香糖吗？

Is that Nicorette gum.

不是，你刚才想问什么？

It's not what what are you looking for previous

我用的是锌和A的组合。

I I do a zin A zin combo.

好的。

Okay.

有

Have a

很多话要说。

lot to say about this.

在那之前，我先快速做个完整声明。

Before I do that, very quickly, there's there first of all, wanna put a full disclaimer.

我对接下来要描述的内容没有任何经济利益关系。有一项非常出色的研究已发表在PubMed上。

I have no financial relationship to what I'm about to describe in any There's a beautiful study published, and it's on PubMed.

如果你们需要，我可以把链接发给你们。

I can send you guys the link if you want.

我是从一位在这里洛杉矶的急诊科医生那里了解到这个的，他在冬季需要保持健康。

And I learned about this from an ER doc out here in Los Angeles who needed to keep himself healthy during the winter season.

N-乙酰半胱氨酸，也叫NAC，是谷胱甘肽的前体。

N acetylcysteine, also called NAC, is a glutathione precursor.

有一项非常出色的研究显示，当参与者报名参加一项研究，被故意暴露在流感患者周围时。

There's a beautiful study showing that when they people signed up for a study where they would where they were deliberately exposed to people who had flu.

明白吗？

Okay?

嗯，是的。

Uh-huh.

他们要么每天服用两到三次NAC，剂量约为600到900毫克，要么不服用。

And they they either got NAC two or three times a day at about six hundred to nine hundred milligrams per day or not.

好的。

Okay.

但不好意思。

But sorry.

你刚才说的那个词太长了，能再解释一下NAC是什么吗？

Just just describe what NAC is because you said that long

NAC这个词。

N word.

我不清楚乙酰半胱氨酸是什么，它是谷胱甘肽的前体，而谷胱甘肽参与多种细胞过程。

Don't know what that acetylcysteine, it's precursor a to something called glutathione, which is used in a bunch of different cellular processes.

通常来说，我认为你不需要它。

Normally, I think you don't need this.

对吧？

Right?

你不需要提升谷胱甘肽水平。

You don't need to elevate glutathione.

我知道现在流行打谷胱甘肽点滴之类的玩意儿。

I know it's all the rage now to get glutathione drips and that sort of thing.

我不清楚。

Don't know

那是什么。

what that is.

我对这些事情有更传统的看法。

I have a I have a more conventional opinion about all that.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

但如果你感觉快要生病了，或者即将接触病原体，杰森，你提到你要去纽约，有工作要处理，需要更快恢复，那么有大量数据显示，每天服用两到三次600到900毫克的N-乙酰半胱氨酸，有助于预防或减轻疾病。

But if you feel like you're coming down with something or you're going to be exposed to things or, Jason, you mentioned that you're heading off to New York, you've got work to do, you need to recover more quickly, the data on avoiding getting sick by taking six hundred to nine hundred milligrams of N acetylcysteine two or three times a day when you're sick, getting sick, or trying to avoid getting sick is quite robust.

事实上，在同样暴露于流感病毒的人群中，那些没有感染病毒的人数差异非常显著。

In fact, there's a huge difference in the number of people all exposed to the same virus that flu virus in this case, that did not contract the virus.

有些人还是感染了。

Some still did.

成功率高达百分之二十多，但如果他们没有服用，对照组的感染率接近百分之八十。

It's in the high twenties, but had they not taken it, the the control group was somewhere close to eighty percent.

哇。

Wow.

这相当惊人。

It's pretty impressive.

当然，这类事情还是要咨询你的医生。

And and, obviously, check with your doctor, this kind of thing.

但这就是关键的一点。

But that's the one thing.

你知道，我们经常听说锌、紫锥菊这些东西。

You know, we hear about zinc, echinacea, all this stuff.

这是唯一一个经过同行评审的研究真正证明可以帮助预防流感的物质。

It's the one thing that the peer reviewed research actually shows can help stave off fluid.

有没有

Is there

一直服用有什么副作用吗？

any downside to taking it constantly?

有些人会每天吃一点。

Some people will take a little bit each day.

它有一点点黏液溶解的作用，会让鼻子稍微多流一点鼻涕。

It is a little bit of what's called a mucolytic, so it'll make your nose run just a little bit more.

在极高剂量下，它实际上被用来治疗囊性纤维化，这是一种肺部积液的疾病。

It's actually used to treat cystic fibrosis at very high doses, which is a buildup of fluid in the lungs.

所以这是一种众所周知的祛痰剂，它还能帮助你更好地排出分泌物。

So it's a well known mucolytic, so it's gonna help you drain out more as well.

但不，其实没有任何负面影响。

But no, there's really no downside.

他想要排出体液。

He wants to drain out.

他只听到了‘排出体液’，就特别兴奋。

He all he heard was drain out, and he's so excited.

如果我能减掉水分重量，我会很高兴。

If I'm losing water weight, I'm happy.

我感觉这和我们之前的讨论有关。

I have a feeling that's related to our previous discussion.

等等。

Wait a second.

等等。

Wait a second.

我们一个小时的时间跟你和肖恩在一起是不够的。

I we're not gonna an hour is not gonna be enough time with you and Sean.

我们有太多，你有太多……

I we have so many you have

有太多箱子了。

so many boxes.

梦想是……

Dream for

让我去一个新的假期。

me to new vacation.

我想知道我们的朋友，是的。

Is I wanna know if our friend yeah.

如果我们的朋友安全，那就有欢呼声了……

If our friend is safe there's cheering on been the

禅。

zen.

有太多东西了，我想先说明一下，关于尼古丁对身体有益的说法实在太多了。

So much and I and I wanna set it up by saying there's been so much about nicotine is good for you.

现在人们都说它很棒，但所有这些说法都如此混乱。

People are now saying it's great, but all all this sort of stuff.

所以我想听你一次性说清楚，你对尼古丁以及各种递送方式的真实看法是什么。

And so I wanna hear once and for all what your take is on nicotine and the various delivery systems.

很好。

Great.

尼古丁是一种非常有趣的兴奋剂。

Nicotine is a very interesting stimulant.

它确实是一种兴奋剂。

It is a stimulant.

没错。

Sure.

但也许它是唯一一种同时还能让你放松的兴奋剂。

But it's perhaps the only stimulant that also relaxes you at the same time.

谢谢你，安德鲁，来参加这个播客。

Thank you, Andrew, for coming on the podcast.

好的，好吧。

We So okay.

所以，所以。

So so

那确实是一个非常独特的特性。

that that you that's a very unique property.

对吧？

Right?

它能让你保持警觉且专注，让人进入一种非常吸引人的状态。

It gives you that alert but focused kind of puts you in the groove that is so alluring to humans.

正因为如此，我不会深入讲述尼古丁的历史，但可以说，几百年来，尤其是过去一百年，人类已经找到了各种方式将尼古丁送入大脑。

So much so, and I'm going to avoid going into a history about nicotine, but let's just say for hundreds of years, but in particular in the last hundred years, humans have figured out ways to get nicotine into their brain.

我们知道，吸烟、电子烟、含嚼和鼻烟都会导致癌症，我也把电子烟包括在内。

And we know that smoking, vaping, dipping, and snuffing all cause cancer, and I did put vaping in there.

电子烟可能比吸烟更安全，但仍然会导致肺部损伤、污染物等。

Vaping is perhaps safer than smoking, but still causes lung damage, the contaminants, etcetera.

电子烟有害。

Vaping is bad.

我只是想说

I'm just saying

关于金属燃烧以及类似物质的影响，科学界还没有定论。

The science isn't back yet on on what the burning of the metal and all that kind of stuff.

我会说，根据个人经验，当我尝试使用某种电子烟产品时（我不会说出具体是哪一种），我的血压升高了。

And and I will say, anecdotally, when I tried to use one of the vaping products, I'm not gonna say which one, I it increased my blood pressure.

我的焦虑感增加了十倍，于是我就停用了。

It increased my anxiety tenfold, and I went back off it.

是的。

Yeah.

我会采取坚定的立场。

I'll take a hard stance.

显然，吸烟我们现在知道了。

Obviously, smoking, we we now know.

还是很酷。

Still cool.

是的。

Yeah.

没人再用鼻烟或嚼烟了，虽然以前有人用。

No one dips or snuffs really or people dip, but they don't

我祖父以前用鼻烟。

My grandfather used to snuff.

他经常放一点点在……

He used to put little bit on his

是的。

Yeah.

我也是。

Mine too.

用某种粉末状的东西。

Used something to powder.

真的把烟草粉吸入鼻孔。

Literally putting tobacco up the nostrils.

我简直无法想象。

I couldn't even imagine.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

嗯，好吧。

Well, okay.

事情是这样的。

So here's the deal.

我们从吸烟、嚼烟、电子烟到鼻吸烟草。

We went from smoking, dipping, vaping, snuffing.

然后我们转向了他们以前称为电子烟的 vaping 方式。

Then we moved to what they used to call electronic cigarettes, vaping.

而现在，口服尼古丁已成为主要的摄入方式。

And then now oral nicotine is the main mode of delivery.

尼古丁本身并不具有致癌性。

Nicotine itself is not carcinogenic.

这一点非常重要。

This is very important.

它不会导致癌症，而是一种能让你放松的兴奋剂，正如我提到的。

Doesn't cause cancer, It's a stimulant that relaxes you, as I mentioned.

它会升高血压并增加血管收缩。

It does raise blood pressure and it increases vasoconstriction.

血管收缩就是指小毛细血管和血管，特别是外围部位，比如手指、其他四肢以及大脑，被收紧了。

Vasoconstriction is just a clamping off of the little capillaries and vessels, in particular in the periphery, you know, in the fingers, in other extremities, and in the brain.

而中风之类的问题，就是由于大脑小区域的血液供应被切断造成的。

And, you know, strokes and other things like that are cutting off of blood supply to small regions of the brain.

所以如果你的血压本来就高，那就不是个好主意。

So if your blood pressure is already high, not a good idea.

如果你的血压天生偏低，并且你还会做其他事情，比如每天或每周几次做桑拿来扩张血管，或者旅行时泡热水澡、洗热水澡，尤其是睡前花点功夫确保毛细血管扩张，那就别在一天太晚的时候使用尼古丁。

Your blood pressure is naturally low and you're doing other things, for instance, sauna, to vasodilate once a day or several, maybe a few times a week at minimum, or a hot bath if you're traveling or a hot shower, taking some effort, especially before bed to make sure that your capillaries are dilated, taking nicotine too late in the day.

现在我可以安全地说出接下来的话了，因为已经有相关证据了。

There is a space where I can say, I can now safely say what I'm about to say, which is there is evidence.

好吧，让我反过来讲。

Well, let me do this backwards.

患有帕金森病和阿尔茨海默病的人，如果使用尼古丁，并不会变得更好。

People with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, if they take nicotine, don't seem to get better.

然而，有相当充分的动物和人类研究表明，尼古丁——如果不是通过 vaping、咀嚼、吸烟或鼻吸方式摄入——可能对预防帕金森病和阿尔茨海默病有保护作用，因为——哦。

However, there is decent evidence in animals and humans that nicotine, not delivered by vaping, dipping, smoking, snuffing, can be protective against Parkinson's and Alzheimer's because- Oh.

因为它能抵消并似乎保护神经元免受退化，而神经元退化正是帕金森病和阿尔茨海默病的典型特征。

Because it offsets, seems to protect neurons against degeneration, which is the hallmark feature Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

尽管如此，我会很自信地说出刚才的话，但有些人可能会说：等等，我不希望人们为了预防帕金森病就开始使用尼古丁。

That said, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna feel very comfortable saying what I just said on the but some people are gonna say, wait a second, I don't want people starting to take nicotine to avoid getting Parkinson's and

阿尔茨海默病。

Alzheimer's.

对。

Right.

对血压的影响，以及对某些人的轻微焦虑影响是显著的。

The blood pressure effect, the mild anxiety effect for certain people is significant.

最重要的是，然后我会退一步，听听你们对此有什么看法。

And here's the biggie, and then I'll just kind of peel back and hear what you guys have to say about this.

最关键的是，任何形式的尼古丁摄入都极易成瘾。

The biggie is that it is highly nicotine delivered in any form is highly, highly habit forming.

什么？

What?

我们称它为上瘾吗？

Do we call it addicting?

上瘾是指尽管对自身或他人造成伤害，仍持续使用。

Addicting is, you know, continued use despite harm to self or others.

我把成瘾定义为让你感到快乐的事物逐渐变少的过程。

I call addiction a progressive narrowing of the things that bring you pleasure.

根据这两种定义，很难说尼古丁是成瘾性的，但我认识很多人，他们一开始每天只用一包ZYN、一片口香糖、一片四毫克的口香糖，很快变成两片，再过不久变成四片，很快每三、四天就要用完一罐。

By those two definitions, it's hard to call nicotine addicting, and yet I know many people that start with one pack of ZYN a day, one gum, one four milligram gum, pretty soon it's two, pretty soon it's four, pretty soon it's a canister every three, four days.

所以，如果它不是成瘾性的，那它就是高度成习惯的。

So if it's not addicting, it's highly habit forming.

所以，你知道，这些就是我偶尔会吃一片尼古丁口香糖的原因。

So that's you know, those are the I'll occasionally take a piece of Nicorette.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

但我并不经常这么做。

But I don't do it very often.

我不会每两周超过一次，因为我喜欢它强烈的功效。

I won't do it more than once every couple of weeks because I love the potent effect.

问题是

The problem is

你是说只是为了熬过一天之类的吗？

Just to get through the day or something, you mean?

不是。

No.

当我进行特别长时间的写作或特别长的播客时。

For if I'm doing a particularly long session of writing or a particularly long podcast.

但关键是。

But here's the thing.

如果你定期服用任何类型的兴奋剂，比如咖啡因、尼古丁，很快你就需要它才能达到正常状态。

If if you take a stimulant of any kind, caffeine, nicotine, any stimulant of any kind regularly, pretty soon you need it just to get to baseline.

对。

Right.

意思是，世界上绝大多数成年人每天都会摄入咖啡因，是的。

Mean, most of us drink ninety percent of the of the adult population of the world drinks caffeine every single day Yeah.

只是为了保持正常的警觉水平。

Just to feel at their normal levels of alertness.

而真正严谨的咖啡因研究之所以如此稀少，是因为没人愿意经历为期两周的咖啡因戒断期。

And the reason there's so few studies on caffeine that are really solid is because no one wants to go through the you'd have to do go into caffeine withdrawal for two weeks to be

这就是我不喝咖啡因的原因。

That's why I don't drink that's why I don't drink caffeine.

你看起来

You seem

很有

to have

活力。

a lot of energy.

我觉得你根本不需要咖啡因。

I don't think you need caffeine.

而我需要咖啡因。

Whereas I need caffeine.

那不是原因，你看起来非常清醒。

That's not why Like, you seem very alert.

你的意思是，你有一种

Like, you're why like, you have an

警觉性。

alertness to you.

嗯，我不

Well, I don't

首先，我想再说一遍，你并不是一开始就决定不喝咖啡，因为你不希望自己的基础状态依赖它。

you didn't first of I just wanna say, again, you didn't it's not like you started you were like, early on, you're like, I'm not going to drink coffee because I don't want to be my baseline to have to be.

不，不是那样。

No, no, not that.

不，不是这个原因。

No, that's not why.

但我不想在高中时喝咖啡，那时候大家都喝，因为我看到人们一旦没喝咖啡就变得特别难相处。

But I didn't want to drink coffee, you know, in high school and stuff when people were just drinking it because I saw what people went through when they're like, don't bother me.

我的咖啡里有它。

I have it in my coffee.

我不想成为那种必须喝了咖啡才能跟你说话的人，或者没喝咖啡就脾气暴躁、睡不醒的人。

Like I don't want to be that person that I can't talk to you until I've had caffeine, you know, or I'm, I'm, I'm angry until I, I'm not woken up until I have caffeine.

所以我意识到了这一点，我从来不想变成那样的人。

So I recognize that and I didn't, I never wanted to be that person.

所以我从不喝咖啡。

So then I never drank coffee.

我喝过苏打水，但我现在不太喝苏打水了。

I've had soda, but I don't really drink soda anymore.

所以，是的，就是这样。

And so, yeah, that's it.

我的意思是，这

I mean That's

我避开大麻的原因。

the reason I avoided cannabis.

我并不是说大麻对所有人都有害，但高THC含量的大麻可能会诱发某些人的精神病。

I don't have anything you know, I I think cannabis has some people, it can activate psychosis, high THC.

有些人似乎能使用它而不会遇到太大问题。

For some people, they seem to be able to take it and not really have too much trouble with it.

我小时候认识的那些大量使用大麻的人，是的。

The people I knew growing up growing up, excuse me, who used a lot of cannabis Yeah.

当他们无法获得大麻时，嗯。

When they didn't have access to their cannabis Uh-huh.

他们很难相处，尤其是和他们在一起的时候。

They were pretty difficult to be with in particular to be with.

他们变得易怒。

They had this kind of they were irritable.

是的。

Yeah.

我们马上回来。

And we will be right back.

现在继续我们的节目。

And now back to the show.

我一直说，没有什么比一个没吸大麻的瘾君子更脾气暴躁的了。

I've always said that that that there's nobody grumpier than a stoner who's who's not stoned.

他们总是最易怒的人，而且确实可以清楚地划出一条界线。

They're always the grumpiest people, and and there's a there's a real you can really draw a pretty firm line there.

我们说的是，JB，那些喜欢JB的人刚去

And there's we're saying, JB, that people who who like to JB just took a

上厕所了，我想。

pee break, I think.

是的。

Yes.

当他们不使用大麻时，容易变得易怒。

And when they're not when they're not using it, can be prone to being grumpy.

有什么想法？

Thoughts?

等等。

Wait.

放松点，兄弟。

So Take it easy, man.

是的。

Yeah.

我想听听

I wanted to hear

只是去拿了一些尼古丁和大麻。

just went to grab grab some nicotine and some cannabis.

你的意思是，使用大麻的人在不使用时会变得易怒？

You're saying when people who use cannabis, they get grumpy when they're not using it?

对。

Yeah.

当他们无法接触到它的时候。

When they don't have access to it.

就像我说的，杰，我说我不喝咖啡因，因为我不想在达到基础状态之前变得脾气暴躁，你知道的。

Like, because I was saying, Jay, I was saying I don't drink caffeine because I don't want to be like a grumpy person till I reach my base, you know.

我可能是个很难评估这一点的人，因为我觉得我的默认状态并不是脾气暴躁，而是……你知道的，我就是那种坐在房间后面、不太说话的人，但偶尔会扔个重磅炸弹。

I I I might be a tough person to to to gauge on that because I think my my my set sort of default idol is I wouldn't say grumpy, but is is is, you know, I'm I'm the guy I'm the guy who sits at the back of the room and and doesn't do a lot of talking, but I'll throw a bomb every once in a while.

没错。

That's right.

然后就走人。

And then leaves.

你知道吗？

You know?

但那样会让我……我不知道。

But but does that make me I don't know.

我得好好练练我的第一印象。

I gotta work on my first hand.

你不会

You don't

你没理解我想到的那层意思。

don't get the mirror of what I was thinking of.

我在想那些长期吸大麻的人。

I was thinking about of a chronic weed smokers.

是的。

Yeah.

长期吸大麻的人。

Chronic weed smokers.

你知道的？

You know?

对。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我的意思是，看，大麻显然会一直存在下去。

Mean, look, that's not Cannabis is definitely here to stay.

令人惊讶的是，这种变化有多大，真是不可思议。

It's kind of amazing how much the the Amazing.

现实正在改变，到处都是卖大麻的人。

Reality is changing is is people sold everywhere.

确实存在一些真正的问题。

There there are some real issues.

我认为一个被严重忽视的大问题是，人人都在说，现在的大麻比以前强多了。

I think the big one that's very overlooked is that everyone talks about, oh, know, the weed is so much stronger now than it used to be.

确实，THC含量高多了。

It's true THC levels are much higher.

但关键是。

But here's the thing.

我节目里请过一位专门研究大麻的学者，他说，当人们食用大麻食品时，最容易出现所谓的‘过量’——不是致死性过量，而是很难把握摄入后的眩晕感，尤其是那些不常吃的人。

I had a researcher on my show who specializes in cannabis research, and he said when people take edibles, that's when they tend to go through the, like, the, quote, not overdose, like a lethal overdose, but they take it was very hard to gauge the kind of plane of high when people take edibles if they don't take them regularly.

这就是导致人们因精神错乱而被送进急诊室的原因。

That's what lands people in in the ER with a psychotic episode.

是的。

Yeah.

我也是。

Me too.

是的。

Yeah.

容易患精神病的人绝对应该避免使用高THC含量的产品。

And people who are prone to psychosis definitely need to avoid high THC.

是的。

Yeah.

你所看到的很多疯狂行为

A lot of the madness you see out there

当你吃东西的时候，

is When you're eating,

很难知道多少才算太多，因为有时候

it's hard to know how much is too much because like sometimes

因为比如我饿了，饼干看起来很好吃。

because like I might be hungry and the cookies look good.

这就是问题所在，伙计。

That's the problem, dude.

大布朗尼蛋糕。

Big brownies.

是的。

Yeah.

我曾经几次摄入了过量的THC，不是过量到需要送医，但确实吃过太多次了。

I've, I've OD'd on THC a couple, not OD'd, but I've taken too much THC a couple times.

有一次，我躺在床上。

And it was just like, I was lying on the bed one time.

我吃了太多，一直在摇晃，然后我喊着：‘斯科蒂，斯科蒂。’

I, I took so much and I was like rocking, and I'm like, Scotty, Scotty.

他说，没事的。

And he's like, it's okay.

会好起来的。

It's gonna be okay.

我说，天啊，已经过去三四个小时了。

And I go, oh god, it's been like three or four hours.

他说，实际上才过了两分钟。

He goes, it's literally been two minutes.

我当时吓坏了。

I was like freaking out.

我整晚都睁着眼睛睡觉。

I I slept with my eyes open the whole night.

太糟糕了。

It was awful.

顺便说一句，那根本不是睡觉。

It was not sleep, by the way.

好的。

Okay.

不。

No.

这不是睡眠。

It's not sleep.

是的。

Yeah.

任何使用大麻助眠的人，无论剂量多少，都完全缺乏快速眼动睡眠，没有快速眼动。

Well, people who who take cannabis to sleep of of any kind and any amount, they're getting no REM sleep, no rapid eye movements.

非常生动。

Very visual.

所有戒掉大麻的人都会提到，他们的梦境变得异常精彩、极其 vivid。

Everyone that comes off cannabis gets a they talk about how incredible their dreams are, how vivid their dreams are.

你会经历快速眼动睡眠反弹。

You get a REM rebound.

快速眼动睡眠是大脑巩固记忆的时候。

REM is when you consolidate memories.

快速眼动睡眠是你学习最多、巩固所学内容的时候。

REM is when you learn the most you consolidate what you've learned.

对的。

Right.

快速眼动睡眠至关重要。

REM is essential.

这里有个小贴士，适用于任何想增加快速眼动睡眠时间的人，不只限于大麻使用者。

Just a little tip outside of cannabis for anyone that wants to increase the amount of REM sleep they get.

有一个很好的方法：如果你没有调节床铺温度的方式，那就得调整室温。

There's a wonderful trick, which is you'll have to adjust the thermostat if you don't have a way to adjust the temperature of your bed.

但无论如何，在睡眠的最后几个小时里，提高你睡眠环境的温度。

But either way, increase the temperature in your sleeping environment in the last hours of sleep.

所以，你希望房间在入睡和保持深度睡眠时保持凉爽。

So every you you want the room cold to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep.

但到了早晨，即使你需要在接近早晨时提高房间温度，你的REM睡眠也会显著增加。

But toward morning, even if you have to heat up the room as you get toward morning, and your REM sleep will increase fairly significantly.

我不会

I won't

做这件事。

do it.

你不会做的。

You you won't do it.

温度太高了。

It's too high.

你不会做的。

You won't do it.

你会说你的REM睡眠很好吗？

And would you say that your REM sleep is really good?

我的REM睡眠还行吧。

I mean, it's okay.

所以也许你应该这么做。

So maybe you should do it.

不。

No.

但我的意思是，让我醒来的原因是太

But I mean, like, what wakes Are me out is when it's too

你说的是，医生，如果我梦很多，而且能稍微记住一些梦境，这是否意味着我进入了REM睡眠？

you saying, doctor, that that that if a good if I'm if I'm dreaming a lot and I'm kinda remembering a bit of my dreams, does that mean I'm getting REM?

是的。

Yes.

尤其是当梦境非常生动的时候。

Especially if the dreams are vivid dreams.

我们通常在夜间后期获得更多REM睡眠，而在夜间初期获得更多深度睡眠。

We tend to get more REM toward the end of the night and more deep sleep at the beginning of the night.

简单来说，夜间初期你会进入深度慢波睡眠，这主要与身体修复有关。

The way to get the brief description of this is that at the beginning of the night, you go into a deep slow wave sleep that's more about bodily repair.

这些梦有点不寻常。

The dreams are kind of unusual.

它们并没有太多情感内容。

They don't really have a lot of emotional content.

除了避免在睡前太近的时间摄入咖啡因等之外，要最大化深度睡眠的方法是尽量在差不多固定的时间上床，前后误差不超过四十到四十五分钟，这适用于所有人。

The way to maximize the amount of deep sleep in addition to not drinking caffeine too close to bed, etcetera, all that is to try and get to bed at more or less the regular regular time, plus or minus 40 We're five all human.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

因为这样你就能捕捉到深度睡眠，然后波浪就过去了。

Because you're gonna capture that deep sleep and then the wave passes.

最大化你的REM睡眠的方法，基本上就是确保你睡得足够久。

The way to maximize your REM sleep is to basically make sure you sleep long enough.

明白吗？

Okay?

有些人需要六小时，有些人需要八小时，总之只要你感觉精力充沛就行。

So some people need six, some people need eight hours, whatever it is for you to feel refreshed.

是的。

Yeah.

但夜晚的最后阶段，如果你能提高体温。

But that last part of the night, if you can increase the temperature.

现在，肖恩，听起来你的核心体温比较高。

Now, Sean, it sounds like you have a high core body temperature.

这很好。

That's great.

这反映了你新陈代谢旺盛。

That reflects a high metabolism.

那些都是

Those are

非常棒的事情。

all wonderful things.

非常热。

Super hot.

所以你可能需要把房间保持得比一般人稍凉一些。

So you might just need to keep the the room a little bit cooler than most.

这一切都是相对的。

This is all relative.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

听我说。

Listen.

我能说你只是让我在思考吗？

Can I just say you're just making me think?

昨晚我做了一个梦，这可不是开玩笑。

So last night, this dream this is not a joke.

我一直在想这件事。

I was just thinking about it.

它突然浮现在我脑海中。

It just came to me.

昨晚我做了一个奇怪的梦。

I had a sick dream last night.

我坐在一辆卡车的后车厢里，是的。

I was in the back of a truck Yeah.

这完全是真的，嗯。

This is totally true Uh-huh.

和一群男人在一起。

With a bunch of dudes.

是的。

Yeah.

而且我们都穿着，我们当时都穿着

And I was we're all wearing we were

这是

this is

我不是在编故事。

not I'm not making this up.

我们都穿着吉拉服。

We're all wearing Gila suits.

对吧？

Right?

就像那种

Like like like those

吉拉服。

Gila suit.

像连体衣？

Like onesies?

你知道吧，

You know,

就像狙击手在执行任务、试图伪装自己时穿的那种衣服。

like snipers wear when they go when they're, like, you know, trying to camouflage themselves.

我们其余的人都走了，然后这个家伙对我说：‘你和我。’

And the rest of our crew went off, and then this one guy goes, you and me.

我们跳下去，冲了进去，然后我们弄了一堆树枝，让别人看不出我们去了哪个方向。

We we we jumped off, and we went in, and then we we we we we put up a bunch of branches so nobody knew which way we went.

我们脱离了原来的队伍。

We went off from the our regular crew.

当然。

Sure.

然后我们走上了一条小路，我跟你说，真不是瞎说。

And then and we went off on this path, and we saw this I'm not kidding.

我就看到一座山，还有个影子，他当时就说：‘那些是俄罗斯人。’

I'm just and we saw this hill, and we saw this shadow of and he's like, those are the Russians.

他们在那个山坡上，我们打算绕到侧面，包抄这些，呃，这些，像 uh-huh。

And they were up on this hill, and we were gonna go and try to outflank these these, this, like Uh-huh.

这个在另一座山上的，有点像特种部队的小组。

This this sort of like Spetsnaz group over on the other on this other hill.

是的。

Yeah.

你有吉拉毒蜥。

You got the Gila monsters.

我只是觉得，那画面太清晰了。

I'm just I'm it was so vivid.

那故事就结束了？

Well, end of story?

该死。

Shit.

等等。

Hang on.

让他讲。

Let let him speak.

实际上，在科学中我们称之为一种机制性的关联，你听听这个。

Well, there's actually what we say in science, a mechanistic weave here that that's so get this.

在快速眼动睡眠期间，乙酰胆碱水平会升高。

One of the things that happens during REM sleep is your acetylcholine levels are high.

尼古丁，你可能想不到，呃。

Nicotine, believe it or not Uh-oh.

它被称为尼古丁，因为它会与烟碱型乙酰胆碱受体结合。

Is called nicotine because it binds to the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors.

是的。

Yeah.

吸食尼古丁的人——我并不是建议人们去尝试使用尼古丁。

People who take nicotine and I'm not suggesting people take go out and start taking nicotine.

我和任何生产尼古丁的公司都没有任何经济利益关系。

And I have no financial relationship to any company that makes nicotine whatsoever.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当你通过服用尼古丁提高乙酰胆碱水平时，尼古丁激活该系统，实际上会

That when you boost your acetylcholine levels by taking nicotine activation of that system with nicotine, it actually

会变成狙击手吗？

will increase turn into a sniper?

不会。

No.

在你的情况下，是的，但你会稍微增加当晚的快速眼动睡眠时间。

You'll well, in your case, yes, but you you will increase the amount of REM that you get a little bit that night when you sleep.

那怎么样？

How about that?

但是，威尔，我真得要告诉你一件事。

But, Will, there's one thing I really have to give you.

是的。

Yeah.

因为对于所有男性听众来说，这会部分抵消尼古丁引起的血管收缩和血压升高。

Because because and I for all all the men out there and on this podcast, but it it will offset some of the vasoconstriction and blood pressure increase of your nicotine.

但我曾在我的播客上邀请过一位我的斯坦福同事，迈克·艾森伯格。

But I had a a guy on my podcast who's a colleague of mine at Stanford, Mike Eisenberg.

他是斯坦福大学男性性健康与激素诊所的负责人。

He's our he's our head of male sexual health and hormone clinic at Stanford.

来了。

Here we go.

他拥有医学博士和哲学博士学位。

He's an MD PhD.

他是泌尿外科和这一领域的顶尖医生。

He's the the top notch doctor in urology and this area.

明白吗？

Okay?

他是一位严肃的科学家和临床医生。

He's a serious scientist and clinician.

他的每一句话都值得重视。

Every his words.

所有40岁及以上的男性都应该每天晚上服用低剂量的他达拉非，即2.5到5毫克，以降低血压、扩张毛细血管。

Every male 40 years or older should be taking low dose, meaning two point five to five milligrams of tadalafil each evening to lower their blood pressure, dilate their capillaries.

在更高剂量下，这种药物被称为希爱力，对吧，用于

At higher doses, this is known as Cialis, right, used for

勃起功能障碍，然而，

erectile However,

这种药物他达拉非最初是为治疗高血压而开发的，目的是扩张大脑和身体的微小毛细血管，以促进前列腺健康和大脑健康。

this drug, tadalafil, was initially developed to treat blood pressure and for, excuse me, to dilate the small capillaries of the brain and body in order to encourage prostate health and to encourage brain health.

关于这一点的好处，有大量的证据支持。

And there's a lot of evidence as to why this is a good thing.

它非常便宜。

It's very inexpensive.

现在因为它已经进入仿制药阶段，成本只有几分钱。

It costs pennies now because it's generic for people out there.

但需要处方。

Do need a prescription.

但我的同事迈克·艾森伯格，你知道，他并没有让我这么说，但当我们讨论血管收缩剂、高血压、压力、中风这些主要致死原因时，尤其是男性，因为前列腺的问题，女性也应该和医生讨论一下，这是否适用于她们。

But my colleague, Mike Eisenberg, you know, he didn't tell me to say this, but when we're talking about vasoconstrictors, high blood pressure, stress, stroke, you know, some of the leading causes of death, you know, every male in particular because of the prostate, women should talk to their doctors whether or not this is applicable to women.

但它确实有助于缓解血压升高和血管收缩。

But it will help offset some of that blood pressure and vasoconstriction increase well.

这太惊人了。

That's amazing.

太棒了。

Rock.

是的。

Yes.

你知道，现在听好了，我每天都提到你谈的那些补充剂。

You know, now listen, I I every single day, know you talk about supplements too.

我也想提一下这个，因为这是我正在服用的，它的成分里含有尼古丁。

I wanted to bring this up too because this is what I take, and it has the word nicotine in it.

我服用的是，我吃二甲双胍，然后吃烟酰胺，你说的是这个吗？

I take well, I take metformin, and then I take nicotinamide, is that what saying?

还有白藜芦醇。

And resveratrol.

好的。

Okay.

所以你服用的是烟酰胺。

So you're taking nicotinamide.

我每天都吃，已经吃了三年了。

I take it every day for, like, three years.

是的。

Yeah.

这属于NAD通路的一部分。

Which is in the NAD pathway.

好的。

Okay.

那我们把这些分成两部分。

So let's break these in two.

二甲双胍是用来降低血糖的。

Metformin is to lower blood sugar.

他还能活多久？

How how long does he have to live?

直说吧。

Just say it.

我的意思是，你们看起来状态很好。

I mean, you you guys look great.

我可以做个年龄猜测，但这里每个人都看起来像是三十七八岁到四十出头。

I I I can do, an age guest thing, but everyone here looks like they're in their late thirties, early forties.

真是棒极了。

It's great year.

是的

Yeah.

看起来很棒

Looking great.

彼此彼此

Likewise.

是的

Yeah.

谢谢

Thanks.

是的

Yeah.

我刚满50岁

I just turned 50.

我感觉非常好

I feel I feel really good.

我们都是五十多岁。

We're all mid fifties.

我们都超过五十五岁了。

We're all over 55.

哇。

Wow.

但可以

But can

演啊，我不知道你拿的是什么剧本，但我们大概能演三十多岁、快四十岁的角色。

play I don't know what kind of script you got, but we can play probably mid thirties, late thirties.

我不知道是什么样的浪漫喜剧。

I don't know what kind of rom com.

年轻气盛的。

Boyish.

就是，你懂我的意思吧？

Like, you know what I mean?

就像，他是个典型的

Like, he's he's a By

顺便说一下，我超喜欢你的麦卡洛·库尔金那一期。

the way, loved your McCullough Culkin episode.

我听了好几遍那个。

I I I I listened listened to to that.

就是那个。

That.

我当时就想，这人真稳重。

I was like, this guy is so grounded.

是的。

Yeah.

我简直无法想象那么小就成名是什么感觉。

I can't even imagine being famous from that young of an age.

你知道的？

You know?

而且，我的意思是，他就是这样，你知道的，他非常出名，但看起来却如此脚踏实地。

And, I mean, and he's like and he he's like a you know, he's hyper fam and he just seems so so grounded.

我肯定他一路走来经历了不少波折，但我对他这个人印象深刻。

I'm sure he's gone through the wickets to get there, but I was very impressed at the at the person he is.

他谈到自己如何脚踏实地地对待一切，从乐高到育儿再到表演，真的就是这样。

He's talking about and how grounded he's about everything from Legos to parenting to acting and just Yeah.

太棒了。

Was awesome.

这人。

Guy.

非常精彩。

It was great.

是的。

Yeah.

是的，他是个好人。

Yes, he a good guy.

很棒。

Great.

这话题是因为你在谈论童星之类的才带出来的。

That came up because you were talking about child actors or something.

我至今还觉得他在《小鬼当家》里的表现很经典。

Think I still frame him in Home Alone.

是的。

Yeah.

所以是补充剂。

So supplements.

说得清楚一点，我知道我经常被归入补充剂和冷水浴那一类。

To be very clear, I know I often get kind of put into that supplement cold plunge category.

听好了。

Look.

是的。

Yeah.

获得良好的睡眠和阳光。

Get great sleep, sunlight.

我非常重视睡眠和阳光。

I'm all about sleep, sunlight.

如果你喝酒，要限制摄入，并通过良好的习惯、有氧运动和抗阻训练来抵消影响。

You If drink alcohol, limit it, offset it with good behaviors, cardio resistance training.

我的意思是，从青少年时期我就一直在做这些事，我真正坚持的是行为优先。

I mean, I've been doing that stuff since I was in my teens, and I've been I'm really committed to the behaviors come first.

对某些人来说，补充剂是有作用的。

There is a place for some people for supplements.

二甲双胍可以降低血糖。

Metformin is lowers blood glucose, blood sugar.

对。

Right.

这很好。

Which is good.

所以可能更多是芝士蛋糕。

So it could be more cheesecake.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这对一些人似乎有效，尤其是那些血糖水平偏高的人。

I mean, it seems to work for some people, especially who tend to run high blood sugar levels.

非常

Very

高。

high.

有些人知道，这种做法的一个廉价替代品是一种叫做小檗碱的树皮提取物，它能实现同样的效果，我正在写下来

Some people will know the kind of a poor man's version of this is a a actually a tree bark extract called berberine, which is which accomplishes the same I'm writing

记下来。

it down.

我正在写

I'm writing

下来。

down.

我提到这一点是因为，但那样的话你可能会想停止服用二甲双胍。

I mentioned that because but then you would wanna stop taking metformin.

你当然需要和你的医生商量。

You'd obviously wanna talk to your doctor.

你正在服用的另一种物质是烟酰胺、烟酰胺核糖，它属于NAD通路。

The other thing you're taking, nicotinamide nicotinamide nicotinamide riboside, is in the NAD pathway.

好的。

Okay.

几年前，NAD作为潜在的抗衰老物质受到了很多关注。

NAD got a lot of attention a few years back as a potential longevity thing.

我们人体都会产生NAD，但它的水平会随着年龄增长而下降。

We all make NAD, and levels of it drop off with age.

对。

Right.