梅尔·罗宾斯

你只是想还清债务，让财务状况好转。是的。所以我们

just You're looking to pay them back and get your head above water financially. Yes. So we're

处于生存模式。

in survival mode.

明白了。

Gotcha.

当你在生存模式时，你非常了不起，也很有办法。所以一个大学朋友打电话给我。三年后我们仍然有80万美元的债务。房子上仍然有留置权。我们仍然只是勉强维持生计。

And you're pretty incredible and resourceful when you're in survival mode. And so a buddy calls me. We still have $800,000 in debt. We still have liens on the house three years later. We are still just making the ends meet.

一个大学朋友打电话给我说，嘿，有人在旧金山举办一个活动，我知道他们正在找一个换过很多工作的人。我想到了你。但这并不是真的在夸你。但她说，我——你知道，他们提供两张头等舱机票和两晚圣瑞吉斯酒店住宿。你所要做的就是谈谈职业转变。

And a buddy calls me from college and says, hey. There's a person who is putting on an event in San Francisco that I know that's looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot. And I thought about you. And I but that's not really a compliment. But she said, I you know, they're offering two first class plane tickets and two nights at the St.

我一生中从未在舞台上演讲过。我上过高中公共演讲课，但我曾是曼哈顿的公设辩护律师。所以我曾在法庭工作过，但我从未演讲过。

Regis. All you gotta do is talk about career change. Now, had never given a speech on a stage in my life. I'd taken a public high school speaking class, but I had been a lawyer or public defender in Manhattan. And so I'd worked in courtrooms, but I'd never given a speech.

当你负债累累时，这听起来像是一个免费假期。对吧？所以我说，克里斯，我们要去旧金山。妈妈，爸爸，来看

When you're that in debt, that sounds like a free vacation. Right? And so I'm like, Chris, we're going to San Francisco. Mom, dad, come watch

这听起来在任何情况下都像是一个免费假期。完全正确。任何情况，都是

the It sounds like a free vacation in any one Exactly. Any situation, to be

嗯，我真的没有想过礼堂里有700人这部分。

Well, I didn't really think through the part of 700 people in an auditorium.

对。对。是的。

Right. Right. Yeah.

于是我走上那个舞台，那恰好是最早的几次 TEDx 大会之一。当时他们还没有——你哪来的胆子，一点都不怯场？

And so I get out on that stage, and it happens to be one of the first ever TEDx conferences. And they weren't Where do get

你哪来的胆子，一点都不怯场？

the balls for no stage fright and all that?

哦，你看到的是一段 21 分钟的恐慌发作。你仔细看看那场 TED 演讲，我脖子上起了那种喝酒或紧张时才会出现的红疹，一分钟就开始冒了。

Oh, you're watching a twenty one minute long panic attack. Like, want you to look close at that TED Talk. I've got this neck rash that people get when they're drunk or they're nervous a minute in.

哦，对对。

Oh, yeah. No.

我以前

I used

经常那样。我在台上乱窜，讲的根本不是五秒法则，而是职业转变。到了第 19 分钟，我忘了怎么收尾，我看着台下，心想：哦，我知道了。

to get that a ton. I am darting around the stage, and this is not about the five second rule. It's about career change. And I get to minute nineteen, and I forget how to end the talk. And I look out, and I'm like, oh, I know.

我就做了这个，我把它叫“五秒法则”：当你有行动的冲动时，必须在五秒内行动，否则你的大脑会扼杀你的动力。非常感谢！哦，对了，这是我的邮箱，有问题可以联系我。

I do this thing. I call it the five second rule. The moment you have an instinct to act, you gotta move within five seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation. Thank you very much. Oh, by the way, here's my email if you have questions.

然后我就下台了。

And I leave.

嗯。

Yeah.

等等，你把邮箱公开了？

Now. You gave your email out publicly?

哦，我的意思是，我只是一个普通人，想通过演讲免费度假，讲一些我一无所知的东西，就这样一年过去了。

Oh, I mean, I'm just a normal person trying to get a free vacation by giving a speech about And something I don't know anything so a year goes by.

他们报销杂费了吗？抱歉。

Did they pick up incidentals? Sorry.

没有。一年过去了。说真的，现在是2012年。一年过去了。我有份工作。

No. A year goes by. Seriously, this is now 2012. A year goes by. I have a job.

克里斯还在努力，我们房子上还有留置权，TEDx决定把它放到网上。我不知道这事。又一年过去了，2013年，我开始在那个邮箱收到邮件。

Chris is still like trying to make we still have liens on the house, And TEDx decides to put it online. I don't know this. Another year goes by, 2013, I start getting emails at that email address.

嗯。

Yeah.

哇。世界各地的人开始给我写信。梅尔，我用54321减掉了100磅。用54321在抑郁中起床。我用54321阻止自己跳海，鼓起勇气寻求帮助。

Wow. People start to write to me from around the world. Mel, I've used 54321 to lose a 100 pounds. 54321 to get out of bed despite the depression. I used 54321 to stop myself from jumping over this ferry and find the courage to ask for help.

我深受震撼，这也回答了威尔的问题，就是什么时候开始谈论这件事的——在全职工作的同时，好几年里，我晚上回家倒杯酒，回复这些陌生人的邮件。哇。因为我有责任搞清楚为什么这个方法有效。

And I was so blown away, this answers your question, Will, about like, at one point did you start talking about it that while working a full time job for several years, I would come home at night and pour a glass of wine and answer these emails from strangers. Wow. Because I felt obligated to figure out why does this thing work?

对，对。

Right. Right.

于是我开始研究它，和人交流。

And so I started researching it and talking to people.

同时也在积累粉丝和邮件列表，之后可以转到播客上？

And simultaneously building a following and a mailing list that you could then sort of transfer over into the podcast?

开始了。还没完全靠它。2012年，如果你愿意，可以手动往回翻Instagram。你得手动翻。全是孩子的照片和烧烤。

Started to. Not yet. 2012, if you we you can scroll back manually through Instagram. You have to do it manually. All it's, it's just pictures of my kids and barbecues.

你知道，我那时候不知道普通人靠做主题演讲也能谋生。2013、2014年开始有人请我演讲。我就去免费讲。然后在2014年，或者说2013年吧，有一次我在一个大型女性大会免费讲完，一个人走过来对我说：‘嘿，你拿到支票了吗？’我当时想：‘支票？’

And you know, I didn't know normal people could make a living giving keynote speeches. So people started to ask me to speak in 2013, 2014. And like, you know, I went and spoke for free. And then there was this moment in 2014 where a per or 2013 rather, a person came up to me after speaking for free at a big women's conference and said, hey, did you get your check for this thing yet? And I was like, check?

你居然拿到钱了

You got paid

做这个还有钱拿？

for this?

我是这儿唯一一个傻到免费干活的人吗？那一刻我就想，我得把这事儿搞清楚。

Am I the only idiot here who's doing this for free? And that's what I'm like, I gotta figure this out.

你觉得你小时候，这种思维方式就一直藏在你体内吗？只是你当时没意识到？

Do you think that when you were younger that this kind of thinking was inside you the whole time when you were growing up, you just didn't know it?

我也在想这个。

That's what I wondered too.

我记得你妈妈以前总说，你说‘读一下’，她说‘修好了，等等，修好了，你自己修’

And like, because I remember your mom used to say you said read that she said, fix it wait, wait. Fix it your fix it yourself and

哦，不记得了。

Oh, don't remember.

穿上大女孩内裤，自己搞定

Big girl panties and Figure it

自己出去把它修好之类的。

out and fix it yourself or something like that.

对对，我觉得是这样。你知道，我出身中西部务农家庭，所以活儿得干完就得干完。

Yep. Yep. I think so. You know, I come from like midwestern farming stock. And so when the chores need to get done, the chores need to get done.

就像我妈在大农场长大，我爸出身工人阶级家庭，所以骨子里有种务实，更重视做事而不是空谈。

Like that's my mom grew up on a big farm, my dad grew up in a working class family. And so there's just sort of a pragmatism to, and a focus on doing things instead of talking about things.

嗯，所以那时候你就已经有点这种基因了，当你

Yeah, so that was kind of in you then at the, you know, when you're

是啊，触底常常能激发出我们最好的一面，因为

Yeah, and touching bottom often brings out the best parts of ourselves, you know, because because

你需要我们。触底彻底改变了我的人生。

you need us. Touching bottoms has has completely revolutionized my life.

哦，是摸你屁股还是触底？

Oh. Touching your bottom or touching bottom?

抱歉，你刚才问什么？不，我确实觉得你看起来并不是一蹴而就。当然，我们现在看到的是你多年践行、转变后的样子，但我猜最初就有那颗种子，就像你说的。

Sorry. What was the question? No. I I do suspect that you you do seem to have that that it's not as it doesn't feel like a leap. Now, of course, we're catching you after years of doing this and living this way and transforming your life, but I think that there is I suspect there was a kernel of that, like, Sean, kind of what you were saying.

那颗种子早就埋在里面了。不管是中西部根还是蓝领背景，我觉得你也相当聪明。

There was a kernel of that in there. And whether it's your Midwestern roots or your blue collar, I think also you're you're pretty sharp, you know, so

嗯，是啊。你说你在纽约当公设辩护人，那你可不是省油的灯。

Well, yeah. You you say you're a public defender in in New York. I mean, so you you're you're no ding dong.

对啊，是吧？

Yeah. Right?

是啊，我想不是。我是说，我也干过不少蠢事。

Yeah, I guess not. Mean, I've done some pretty ding dong things.

不是。不是一个

No. Wasn't a

法学院危机。

law school crisis.

聪明不代表你在生活方式上真的聪明。

Being smart doesn't mean you're actually smart about how you live your life.

不是，但你知道自律。你读完了法学院。就像你懂得，懂得在需要时逼自己一把。对。

No, but you know discipline. You went through law school. Like there's you know how to, you know, to ask yourself to really bring it if you need to. Yeah.

对。而且你小时候有ADHD，但当时不知道那是ADHD，对吧？对。但我觉得有时候那反而成了长大后的超能力。就像我好久以前在TikTok上看到个东西，我们之前聊过，我——别信TikTok上的一切

Right. And you, and when you had ADHD when you were a kid, but you didn't know that it was ADHD, correct? Yeah. But I think sometimes that's, that's a superpower later on in life. Like I just saw this thing like on TikTok or something a long time ago about, we talked about this I the other know everything's the truth on

TikTok。那本书我还没读。

TikTok. I haven't read that book yet.

它说童年创伤或什么童年经历，有时会让孩子发展出ADD作为一种应对机制。他们不能离开家，不能离开所处环境，对吧，因为那是你的住所、食物、家庭等等。但由于某些创伤你无法逃离，大脑就不断试图解决问题，于是发展出ADD或ADHD。

And it said something about like childhood trauma or childhood something sometimes in children create ADD as a coping mechanism. They don't they can't leave their house. They can't leave where they, right, because that's your shelter and your food and your family and whatever. But because of some trauma where you can't leave, your brain's trying to constantly figure out how to problem solve and in doing so, develop ADD or ADHD.

我想是Gabor Maté之前讲过这种联系

I think that was Gabor Mate that talked about the connection before

等等，让我说完。我想是加博尔·马泰说的。对，你说吧。我——我有过

between Hang on, let me finish. Gabor Mate I think said that. Yeah. Go ahead. I had I had

我前几天喝了一杯超棒的马黛茶。我

a I had a delicious mate the other day. I had

昨晚也喝了杯“加博尔·马泰”——梅尔，你觉得呢？听着，我得说，梅尔，关于ADHD那事儿，听起来就我了解的那点——再说一遍，我知道得不多——但我清楚，在我认识的被确诊有执行功能缺陷的亲人身上

a Gabor Mate too with last night What I was in do think of that, Mel? Listen. I will say this. Mel, there well, to that ADHD thing, it sounds like from the little, again, I know of it, but I know when it comes to people that I'm related to who have who have been diagnosed with having deficits in when it comes to executive function. Mhmm.

我早想说，确实有那么一刻，而且正是某种ADHD的症状之一：你明知得去做，却怎么也启动不了，这就是执行功能缺陷。

And I was gonna say that earlier, there there is that moment of and it is one of the symptoms of a particular type of ADHD where you you know that you have to do it and you can't start it. And that's an executive function deficiency.

哦，这挺有意思。

Oh, That's interesting.

而且正如肖恩所说，这也可能是创伤反应——一种“冻结”状态。

It can also to Sean's point, it can also be a trauma response that there's this freeze.

肖恩的观点太乱了，扯到TikTok，他还说啥来着，有人

Well, Sean's point was so muddled. It was about TikTok, and he was like something and someone

说我在——高智商人群里，男女、男孩女孩患ADHD的比例完全一样，可女性被严重漏诊，因为1970年代发现这病时只研究了男孩。当男孩——对，当男孩有88——这能解释婚姻，也能解释你姐妹的情况。

says I was something trying to the highly intelligent cause women and men and boys and girls experience ADHD at the exact same levels. But women and girls go profoundly underdiagnosed because when it was discovered in the 1970s, they only studied boys. When a boy yes. Has 88 And so when a boy had this is gonna explain marriages. This is gonna explain your sisters.

系好安全带，因为每次我解释这事，大家都惊呼“我靠，这就是我/我老婆”。长话短说：当初只研究男孩。ADHD是大脑切换机制的结构问题，你能专注，只是难以随时调动。

Like, just buckle up because this is one of those things that every time I explain it, people go, holy fuck, that's me or that's my wife. Holy. And so here's here's the short backstory. So they only study boys. And when boys have ADHD, which is like a structural thing that's not working in the switching mechanism of your brain, you can focus, you just have trouble directing it at times.

对。于是男孩更坐不住，你容易注意到：他们动来动去、插话、难把焦点放对地方。女孩症状相反：她们爱走神、变得更安静，并且对自己更苛刻。

Yeah. And so boys are a little bit more fidgety. And you kinda notice it because they're fidgety, they interrupt, they have trouble directing their focus. Girls have the opposite symptoms. They tend to daydream, they get quieter, and they get harder on themselves.

现在真正有趣、也真正改变人生的事情来了。如果你有未被诊断的ADHD、阅读障碍或执行功能障碍，主要症状之一就是你会产生焦虑。因为你整天坐在教室里或被要求完成一些你的大脑目前结构上无法完成的事情。于是焦虑就产生了。所以有一大批女性——她们被称为失落的一代——在高中和大学时期被诊断为焦虑症，然后用药物来抑制焦虑。

Now here's what gets interesting and really life changing for people to learn. If you have undiagnosed ADHD or dyslexia or executive functioning, what happens as the primary symptom is you develop anxiety. Because you are sitting in a classroom or in a setting where you're being asked to do things all day long that your brain can't structurally do right now. And so anxiety develops. So there's a huge generation of women, they call us the lost generation, of women that were diagnosed with anxiety in our high school and our college years and then medicated with something to quell the anxiety.

但根本问题始终是未被诊断的ADHD。嗯，而且

But the underlying issue was always undiagnosed ADHD Well, and

你说得真有趣，Mel。所以我跟我爸聊过，因为我在谈，我家里有人最近三个月就遇到这种情况。我说，你知道吗，我十几岁的时候，尤其是八十年代初的青春期，我被测了很多次，他们总说，哦，他功能很好。我们不理解他为什么不写作业。于是我就被贴上了坏孩子的标签。

it's funny you say that Mel. So I had a conversation with my own dad because I was talking, there was somebody in my family who encountered this and this is within the last three months. And I said, you know, when I was a teenager and when I was, you know, a young teenager, especially adolescent in the early eighties, I would get tested a bunch and they'd say, oh, he's functioning very well. We don't understand why he's not doing his work. And I was kind of labeled a bad kid.

我说，爸，你知道吗，这是我快55岁时和我爸的对话。我现在55岁，我爸86岁。我说，我现在听了医生的话，才意识到我自己也有这种行为。感觉，当然，是啊，结果就是你要么被开药。

And I said, dad, you know, and this is something I'm, a conversation I had with my dad at almost 50, I was almost 55 at the time. I'm now 55. My dad's 86. And I said, I now recognize in hearing what this doctor said, this behavior in myself. Feel like, and of course, yeah, what ends up happening is you either get prescribed stuff.

我说的是男孩，我不能代表女孩，要么你就自我用药。是的。这就是一种，你知道的，试图缓解症状的办法。

I'm talking for a boy and I can't speak, or you self medicate. Yes. And that is one of the, you know, to try to quell the symptoms.

对于注意力缺陷，除了药物之外还有别的办法吗？我的意思是，有没有什么疗法可以——嗯，各种

Is there something one can do for attention deficit that is different than medication? I mean, there something, is there therapy that one can Well, all kinds

这是个好问题。有很多办法。我觉得只要了解你的大脑如何运作、如何学习，就能帮你做很多事，无论是组织系统，还是他们对孩子做的一些干预，真的有助于发展和训练。就像我儿子最后——也是我在47岁时发现自己既有阅读障碍又有ADHD的原因。哇。

of it's a great question. There's all kinds of things you can do. And I think kind of just understanding the way that your brain works or learns helps you do all kinds of things, whether there's systems for organization, there's certain types of interventions that they do with kids that really help develop and train. Like our son ended up and this is how I found out at the age of 47 that I was both dyslexic and had ADHD. Wow.

大多数女性都是这样发现的。我们的孩子开始在学校挣扎，就像你一样，Will。他们被贴上行为问题的标签。然后你去做所有神经心理评估测试，接着你坐下来想，这听起来很像我。我当时真的转头问我的儿科医生，我说，Mark，你觉得我为什么有ADHD？

The same way that most women do. Our kids start struggling in school like you did, Will. They get labeled a behavioral issue. You then go through all of the neuropsych evaluation testing and then you sit back and go, seems a lot like me. And I literally turned to my pediatrician and said, you know, Mark, why didn't you like, why do you think I have ADHD?

他说，Mel，你当然有ADHD。你是我认识的最ADHD的家长。我说，你为什么不告诉我？他说，我又不是你的医生。

He was like, Mel, of course you have ADHD. You're the most ADHD parent I know. I'm like, why didn't you tell me? He's like, I'm not your doctor.

这是你从父母那里遗传来的吗？

Was it something that you inherit from your parents?

他们说这可能有影响。实际上，据说在你还在子宫里时，父母的压力水平，尤其是妈妈的压力水平，会影响你，因为这关系到你的战斗或逃跑神经系统。据我了解，它的影响方式就像生活中的一切一样，坏事必须先发生，然后我才会意识到，好吧，我完了，我得想办法解决。接着我把它变成一个研究项目，然后尽量用最简单的方式解释我学到的东西。

They say it can be. Actually say that it can be impacted by what's going on when you're in utero and the stress levels of the parent or the mom and whether or not she's under a lot of stress because it relates to your fight or flight nervous system as And it impacts the way it was explained to me, because again, like everything in life, it's like bad things need to happen. And then I realize, okay, I'm fucked. I gotta figure this out. And then I turn it into a research project, and then I try to explain what I've learned in the simplest ways.

所以，如果我能帮别人省下我过去三四十年里经历的头痛和心痛，不知道我到底在应对什么，就像你现在一样，不知道自己在面对什么，靠自我麻痹、发泄、对自己过度苛责。只要我能知道这不是我有什么缺陷，只是我的大脑运作方式不同。至于ADHD，我会想到你上大学或高中的时候，你会想，好，我得学习了。你知道你可以去图书馆，那里会见到朋友，或者去书库。所以我会去书库，然后想，好，我得学习了。

So anybody else, if I can save them the headache and the heartache that I went through for thirty, forty years, not knowing what I was really dealing with just like you will, not knowing what you're dealing with and self medicating and acting out and feeling hypercritical of yourself. If I can just know what this thing is, that I'm not deficient, I just have a brain that works differently. And with ADHD, I would go to this when you you are in college or high school and you're like, all right, I gotta study. And you know you can go to the library where you're gonna see your friends or you go to the stacks. And so I would go to the stacks and I'm like, okay, I gotta study.

我会坐下来，准备专心投入。说实话，我真的完全做不到，就像你说的那样，Will。我根本没法让自己去做。更糟的是，我能听到角落里有老鼠在拉屎，我能听到自己胃里的声音。

And I would sit down and I'd be ready to like lock in. And honest to God, I could not for the life of me, just like what you were talking about, Will. I couldn't make myself do it. And worse, it's like I could hear the mouse pooping in the corner. I could hear my stomach.

所以那个机制就像一个管弦乐队的指挥，想象一下所有声音输入，就像乐队在热身。

And so that mechanism that like an orchestra conductor, think about all the input of sound like an orchestra warming up.

嗯。

Mhmm.

ADHD就像你大脑里有个指挥，在敲敲打打，好了，大家安静。现在只让弦乐的声音响起。如果你没有这个指挥，整个世界听起来就像乐队在热身。

ADHD, there's this conductor in your brain that's like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Okay. Let's bring it all down. Now let's lift up the sound of the strings only. If you don't have that little conductor in your brain, the whole world sounds like an orchestra warming up.

对。

Right.

你既无法在某些情况下集中注意力，也无法屏蔽其他输入。这就是正在发生的事情。

And you can't both direct your attention in certain instances and you can't silence other input. And that's kind of what's happening.

这太有意思了。是啊。

That's fascinating. Yeah.

超级有意思。但有很多你可以做的事情，而且你不必吃药。

Super fascinating. But there's lots you can do and you don't have to do medication.

对。所以说到这一点，一半的解决办法其实就是得到诊断，知道你得了什么病，至于要不要吃药那是你的选择。但至少你知道了它是什么，你就可以开始寻找可能不同于药物的补救方法，或者至少开始调整你的行为，尝试一些不同的东西，对吧？

Right. So to that point, half of the fix is actually getting the diagnosis, knowing what you have, and it's your choice whether you want to medicate or not. But at least you know what it is, is you can start to search for a remedy that might be different than medication or at least start adjusting your behavior and seeing, trying some different stuff on, yeah?

是的。而且对自己宽容一点。比如水龙头开着会让我老公抓狂，或者我的水槽——我不知道你们的洗手间什么样，但我老公的洗手台像禅宗酒店里的那样。

Yeah. And having some grace for yourself. Like it drives my husband crazy that the faucet's running or that my sink, I don't know what your guys' bathrooms look like, but my husband's sink looks like the sink at a Zen hotel.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我的就像把沃尔格林一整条货架掀翻在上面。还是那样？哦天啊。是的。就像，哦，真的吗？

Mine looks like you tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of it. Still? Oh my god. Yes. Like, Oh, really?

就像，嗯。等等。就像

Like yeah. Wait. Like

牙膏盖是不是永远没盖？是的。然后你就直接把化妆品撕开。

Is the cap off the toothpaste for on you all the time? Yeah. And you cosmetic cosmetic rip that off.

干干的旋钮。

The dry knob.

没错。拜托，咱们振作点。好？

Yes. Come on now. Let's let's get it together. Yeah. Okay?

但你知道，梅尔，我一路走来学会了很多小技巧，我会做这些，我刚才还跟人说，比如我对钥匙和钱包有讲究，我不会弄丢。所以我有一个小碟子，无论我住哪儿、去哪儿，所有东西都放回同一个地方。我的洗手间很干净，我给自己养成了这些小习惯，帮我保持——创造秩序。对，创造秩序。

But you know you know you know, Mel, I learned all these all these tricks along the way that I would do, I was saying to, like, I'm telling somebody before that that, like, I have like a thing about like keys in my wallet, and I don't lose. So I have like a dish, and everywhere I live and everywhere I go, everything goes back in the same spot. My bathroom is very clean and I have taught myself all these things to do, these little routines that help keep me Create order. Yeah. That create order.

太棒了。因为大脑就像这样。所以环境的秩序能让你的大脑安定下来。

That's awesome. Because the mind is like this. So the order in the environment helps your mind settle.

我喜欢And，我有一个朋友，他只有一个朋友。他用这种方式应对焦虑，结果他把——他有一瓶Xanax，他把药放在电梯里，以防电梯出故障。

I love And and I have a friend I have one friend. He deals with anxiety in this way, and he ends up putting he has a a bottle of Xanax, he puts it in the elevator just in case it breaks down.

其实你真该把这期节目发给他

Well, you should actually send him this

那瓶药放在里面。

episode. Bottle in there.

不，Will。你该把这期节目发给他。你该把这期节目发给他，因为焦虑最大的应对机制就是逃避。你越逃避，焦虑就越严重。因为当你逃避时，你在告诉自己：我应付不了。

No, Will. You should send him this episode. You should send him this episode because the single biggest coping mechanism for anxiety is avoidance. And the more you avoid something, the bigger the anxiety gets. Because when you avoid something, you're telling yourself, I can't handle this.

这就是你在做的事。所以54321有帮助。

That's what you're doing. So 54321 helps.

是Sean。是Sean。对。

It's Sean. It's Sean. Yeah.

我们马上回来。

And we will be right back.

现在回到节目。

And now back to the show.

告诉我们，Let Them是我们正在谈论的内容的表亲，还是直接的一部分？

Tell us how is Let Them a something that that is a cousin to what we're talking about or directly a part of it?

这又是一个好问题。54321能帮你冲破所有阻力、恐惧、犹豫和焦虑，去采取改变一切的行动。但我总在想，我们到底为什么这么抗拒？结果发现，对我来说，似乎也是对数百万共鸣这本书的人来说，生活中阻力和恐惧的主要来源是我们对他人的恐惧。而“随他们去”理论是我发现的，它从根本上改变了我的人生。

It's an again, great question. So, you know, fifty four thousand three hundred twenty one helps you push through all the resistance, the fear, the hesitation, the anxiety to take the action that changes everything. But I always wonder why the hell are we so resistant anyway? Well, it turns out for me anyway, and seems like for millions and millions of people that this book has resonated with, the main source of resistance and fear in our lives is our fear of other people. And the let them theory was something that I discovered, and it has fundamentally changed my life.

我觉得，我人生的前五十三年好像活反了：我满脑子都是让别人开心，担心他们的看法，每天按别人的期待、情绪和需求转，而不是学会还有另一种活法。“Let Them”理论其实就是现代版的斯多葛主义、佛教、宁静祷文。它讲的是控制与力量：你能控制什么、不能控制什么。两个简单的词——“随他们去”——能让你从拼命管理他人想法、意见、期待的疲惫循环里解脱出来。

Like, I feel like I have lived my life backwards for the first fifty four years because I have been consumed by making sure other people are happy, by worrying about their opinions, navigating my day to day life based on people's expectations, their moods, what, you know, they want versus truly learning that there's a different way to live. And the Let Them Theory is ultimately a modern version of stoicism, Buddhism, the Serenity Prayer. It's a book about control and power. What you have control over and what you do not. And two simple words, let them, will free you from the exhausting cycle of trying to manage people's thoughts, their opinions, manage their expectations.

有更好的活法：随他们去。

There's a better way to live. Let them.

随他们去。

Let them.

基本信条是什么？抱歉，基本信条是什么？

What's the basic tenet? What's the basic tenet of it? Sorry.

是“随他们评判”？“随他们生气”？是“关我什么事”？我只管好我自己。

Is it let them have their judgment? Let them be upset? Let the it's none of my business. Let me just take care of number one.

嗯，是“是的，而且”。还有后半句——“让我”。但基本信条是，威尔，人生只有三件事你能控制。只有三件：你能控制自己的念头。

Well, here's yes and. So there's a second part, let me. But the basic tenet, Will, is that in life, there are only three things you can control. Only three. You can control what you think about.

你能控制自己做什么或不做什么。你能控制自己如何回应情绪。

You can control what you do or don't do. And you can control what you do in response to your emotions.

对。

Right.

任何心理学家都会告诉你，当你把注意力放在无法控制的事上——而人生头号无法控制的就是别人：他们说什么、做什么、信什么、改不改、有没有动力、焦不焦虑、戒不戒酒，你都控制不了。可我们把自己耗得精疲力尽，把大把时间精力浪费在——对，让一堆破事和别人的破情绪吸干你最宝贵的资源。

And any psychologist will tell you, when you focus on things you can't control, And the number one thing in life that you will never be able to control is other people. What they say, what they do, what they believe, or not they change, whether or not they're motivated, whether or not they're anxious, whether or not they get sober. You can't control other people, and yet we exhaust ourselves and waste so much time and energy Yeah. Allowing meaningless shit and other people's stuff to drain your most precious resource.

嗯，梅尔，还有一点——我也没法满世界跑，告诉每个遇到的人该怎么对待我，时间根本不够。这对我来说也是关键。我早上还跟几个人聊到这个。

Well, Mel, there and and and part of that too is is you also can't control. I can't there's not enough time for me to go around and and everybody I meet and tell them how they need to treat me as well. That's kind of part of it for me. That's interesting. And and I was talking about this this morning with some people.

我之前说过，我们在这儿聊过。对我来说，一部分是人和事。我不能被环境左右，因为我得自己“造天气”。要是我被环境牵着走，那可就难办了，真的难走。

I was saying I we've talked about it on here before. Part of that also for me is I and it's people and it's things. I can't be at the effect of circumstances because I gotta make my own weather in a sense. Because if I'm at the effective circumstances, man, that's tough sledding. That is really tough sledding.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

你是说，比如你开车遇到堵车，大多数人会紧握方向盘发火，可你根本控制不了交通，对吧？那干嘛让这种事消耗你的时间和精力？

So are you talking about, like, if you're in your car and traffic builds up, and for most people they're gonna grip the wheel and get pissed off about the traffic. And the truth is you can't actually control the traffic. Yeah. And so why would you allow something like that to drain your time and energy?

完全同意。我再说深一点，有时候别人会听不懂。堵车时，你排了很久，有人想插队，多数人骂：滚，我排了一英里，别想进来。

A 100%. And I'll a step further, and this is sometimes where I lose people. I'll say when when there's a lot of traffic and you've, you know, you've come a long way and then people are trying to get in and you're like and most people are like, fuck you. I've been waiting for a mile. I'm not gonna let you in.

可你要是让人进来，我保证路况会为你让开，次次灵验。我越让，越说“你先走”，就越顺。

And if you let people in, I I guarantee you traffic will open up for you. It works for me every time. The more I give it away, the more I go, go ahead. Go ahead. It's Yeah.

次次都灵，太神了，我也不知道为啥……

It works every time. It's the craziest thing. I don't know what's It's

不只是路通了，你心里也通了。

not just the traffic opens up. Something opens up inside you.

你准备好进入爱了吗？这道理对爱也适用。

You ready Well, that's to getting to love. And then you get that works with love too.

确实，但先有别的东西。因为我们大多很自私。说“让人进来”时，路通不通不一定，但我信你说的，它先改变的是你。它先让你意识到自己的时间和能量很值钱。

It you start does, but it's something else first. Because most of us are really selfish. And when we say let them, let them in, traffic's either gonna open up or it's not. And I do believe what you believe, that it does start to shift things. But what it shifts first is you recognize that your energy and your time is worth something.

当你开始珍惜并保护自己的时间能量，不被别人的期待、情绪、粗鲁、堵车、长队左右，你就拥有更多时间能量，变得更自主、更有力量，然后一切都变了，因为你不再被外界那些破事牵着走。

And when you start to value and protect your time and energy from people's expectations, people's moods, people's rude behavior, traffic, long lines, you value and have more time and energy. You become more in control and more empowered as a human being, and then everything starts to change because you're not at the effect of all the shit going on outside of you.

没错。是的。如果我吝啬我的关注、我的爱、我的善意，宇宙也会以吝啬回报我。这对我来说是铁律。嗯。

That's right. And yes. And if I'm stingy with my attention, with my love, with my with my kindness, I will get stinginess from the universe in return. That is a lock for me anyway. Mhmm.

我觉得那种不被爱的感觉，通常是因为我付出的不够多。不，抱歉。

And I think that feeling of of feeling unloved is generally because I'm not pushing out enough. And the No. Sorry.

不，不，你继续说。我不是有意打断你，Sean。

No. No. Go go ahead. Well, I didn't mean to cut you Sean,

你的问题是什么？

was your question?

不，Sean，我刚说

No. Sean, I went

对了，有什么剧场故事吗？让他说，Sean。让他说。

to yeah. Any theater stories? Let him, Sean. Let him.

让他说。

Let him.

说吧，Sean，你的问题是什么？

Go ahead. What was your question, Sean?

她在台上给你了个好梗，对吧？不知道怎么收尾，她给你贡献了个绝佳的剧场故事。那

She did give you a good one up there on stage. Didn't know how to end it. She gave you a great theater story. What

Mel，在这个我们生活的世界里，面对社交媒体、评论，还有人们对你的各种攻击，你是怎么放下的？

do you do, Mel, as far as let them go in this world that we live in about social media and comments and what's people coming at you with that?

没事。让他去。不。听起来很棒。

Nothing. Let him. No. It sounds great.

是啊。不。我本来想说，像你这样的人，我敢说你肯定会收到各种各样的评论。我知道有些人，其他人，他们会收到，你知道的，那些他们无法承受的评论，他们靠正面评论而活，然后，你知道的，在负面评论中迷失自己。所以，对于那些人，你怎么看？

Yeah. No. I was gonna say, with people like for you, I'm sure you get all kinds of comments. I know people, other people, they get, you know, comments that they can't, they thrive on the positive comments and they, you know, lose themselves in the negative ones. So what about let them for those?

也为你自己，顺便说一句，为你自己。

And for yourself, by the way, for yourself.

嗯，你永远无法控制别人怎么想，肖恩。

Well, you can never control what somebody else thinks, Sean.

对。

Right.

所以让他们去想他们要想的吧。让他们

So let them think what they're going think. Let them

不是，我只是想把那话说出来。

not I like just wanted to put that out there.

不。我是说，因为

No. Mean, because

这就是正在摧毁，你知道的，今天社会很多东西的原因，或者，你知道的，人们真的把别人在社交媒体上对他们说的话当回事

it's what's destroying, you know, a lot of society today, or, you know, people actually put weight into what people say about them and to them on social media

这甚至远不止如此，肖恩，因为比如，让我们打开Instagram，你正准备发点什么，你选了一张照片，然后你觉得，哦，不是那张。然后你加个滤镜，然后你去写文案，然后你加个表情符号，然后你又删了。你在想，这是不是太过了？这是给谁看的？

It goes everywhere even more than that, Sean, because like, let's just let's just unpack this. So let's say that you are pulling out Instagram and you're about to post something, and you pick a photo and you're like, oh, not that photo. And then and then you put the filter on it, and then you go to write the caption, and then you put the emoji, and then you backspace. You're thinking, is this too much? Is this a for whom?

你甚至还没表达自己，就已经跳进了别人的大脑，试图预判他们会怎么想。对。而事实是，你发什么内容都无法真正保证别人会产生正面或负面的想法，因为你控制不了。

You before you even express yourself, you're already jumping into the brain of another human being and trying to anticipate what they're gonna think. Right. And here's the truth. There is nothing you can post that will actually guarantee somebody has a positive or negative thought because you can't control it.

是啊，没错。就算你能控制，也不可能让所有人都满意。

Yeah. Right. And even if you could, you can't get them all.

对，就让他们去吧。让他们取关我，让他们误解我，让他们失望。

Yeah. Just let them do what they're gonna do. Let them unfollow me. Let them misunderstand. Let them be disappointed.

让他们，让他们

Let them let them

Mel去哪儿了？迪克照片来了。

Where'd go, Mel? Here come the dick pics.

对，来吧，让他们发。

Yeah. Here, let them.

我不

I don't

得看——让我自己决定我要看什么。

have to look at let me decide what I'm gonna look at.

来了来了。

Here we go.

我收下了。让他们发吧。可怜那些现在要在私信里处理这些的实习生。谢谢你，Brad。

I'll take them. Let them. The poor interns that are now in the DMs. Thanks, Brad.

太搞笑了。好吧。等等，我这儿有点，我这儿有点好东西。等等。哦，你收到过最震惊的教练请求是什么？

That's so funny. Okay. So wait, I got some, I got some good stuff here. Wait. Oh, what's the most shocking coaching request you've ever received?

因为你也做私人教练啊。

Because you do private coaching too.

哦，我根本不做私人教练。

Oh, I don't do any private coaching.

哦，我以为你做呢。我以为你有一对一教练服务

Oh, I thought you did. I thought you did one on one coaching with

不，不，没时间做那个。但最震惊的请求我收到过——其实没有一个称得上震惊。

no, no, Don't have time for that But the most shocking request I got a request none of them are shocking.

嗯。

Yeah.

真没有，因为事不关己时，给人建议很容易，你对发生的事没有情感牵扯。只要你认真听，就能听出对方到底在挣扎什么。而我们大多数人挣扎的，要么是害怕让别人失望。

They really aren't because when it's not you, it's easy to give people advice because you're not emotionally attached to what's happening. And if you listen closely to anybody, you can really tell what they're grappling with. And what most of us are grappling with is either the fear of disappointing somebody.

嗯。

Yeah.

要么是害怕一旦做了这件事，别人会评判你，最终你会孤独终老。

Or the fear that if you do this thing, somehow people are gonna judge you and you're gonna end up alone.

对。

Right.

所以一切都归结于这种恐惧：别人会怎么想

And so everything comes back down to this fear of what other people are gonna think about

对，确实如此。

Right. For sure.

以及他们的行为如何决定你的价值。而秘诀就是：你得喜欢你自己。只有当你学会让别人不开心、让别人失望、让别人保留他们的看法，并真正弄清楚那些让我为自己骄傲的决定时，你才会喜欢自己。因为当你为自己骄傲时，你就不会太在意别人怎么做。

And how their actions dictate your value. And here's the secret. The secret is you have to like you. And you will only like yourself if you can learn how to let other people be unhappy and learn how to let people be disappointed and let people have their opinions and let me really be clear about the decisions that make me proud of myself. Because when you're proud of yourself, you kind of don't give a shit what other people do.

好。那么，对于很多你的粉丝或读你书的人来说，你给人的感觉是无畏、有自信，那你一定也有某种自我怀疑吧？

Right. Okay. So for a lot of people that are fans of yours or people that read your books or whatever, you come off as this fearless, you have fearlessness and confidence, and so you must have some self doubt about something.

每天都有。我刚才还坐在这儿想，会不会有一刻我像杰森在科尔伯特的绿房间里那样，在裤子里出点意外？

Every day. I was literally sitting here going, am I gonna have a moment where I kind of have an accident in my pants like Jason did in the green room, you know, in Colbert.

哦，太棒了，因为

Oh, that's a great Because

我对见这些家伙特别紧张，就像

I'm so nervous about meeting these guys. Like

我真的

I literally

其实，9月17日我们要一起上《吉米·法伦秀》。我正在翻你的垃圾，看你是不是把内裤藏在健怡可乐罐下面。先把DC（Detective Comics）放一边，

Well, actually you and I are gonna be on Jimmy Fallon on the September 17. I'm sorting through your garbage to see if you've hidden underwear in there under a Diet Coke can. Get the DC I out of the way,

等不及见你了。我正想问同样的问题：你是否享受这种自信状态，并主动迎接新事物，实际上也带来了一种新的焦虑特权？当你不断向前、突破时，你会看到全新的复杂性和挑战，这些都是你向前冲的结果。

can't wait to meet you. Well, I was gonna ask this same question. Like, have are you enjoying that your your state of confidence and sort of leaning forward into things actually creates the privilege of new anxieties? As you reach and hurdle forward, you're now seeing a whole new level of complexities and challenges that are a result of you leaning forward and breaking forward.

而且是公开的，面向更广泛的受众。

In the open, too, like to a broader audience.

你知道，我真的很感激这一切是在我人生较晚的时候才发生的。

You know, I am really grateful that all this happened later in life.

是啊。我

Yeah. I

真的感激，因为当你经历那种几乎失去所有重要东西的时刻，无论是婚姻、家庭、房子还是理智。

really am because, you know, when you go through an experience where you literally almost lose everything that matters to you, whether that's your marriage or your family or your home or your sanity.

或者对你来说，是所有的一切，对吧？

Or in your case, all of it. Right?

是啊，所有的一切。作为父母，这肯定让情况更糟。担心孩子的安危。

Yeah. All of it. Like you're Being very a parent, I mean, that must have ratcheted it up too. Worried about the welfare of your kids.

天啊，无法想象。孩子们会在克里斯和我吵架、互相大吼之后下楼，然后发现我们瘫坐在椅子上，宿醉未醒。

Oh my god. Can't imagine. Our kids would come downstairs at night after Chris and I had been fighting and screaming at each other, and they would find us collapsed in chairs, like hungover.

是啊。

Yeah.

这就是他们……你知道，当你的孩子为了赶校车而把你叫醒时，你就知道你育儿失败了。是啊，情况真的很糟。所以现在你们看到的这一切，无论是播客的巨大规模，还是这本畅销书，这本书有望成为有史以来最成功的非虚构类书籍。六个月内卖出600万册。

That's how they they're like, you know you're not winning at the parenting game when your kids wake you up so they can catch the bus. Yeah. Like it was not good. And so all of this that you see now, whether it's the massive scale of the podcast or the number one book, I mean, this book is on track to be the most successful non fiction book ever launched. 6,000,000 copies in six months.

哇。哇。这就是……部分原因是因为我只是在提醒你们那些你们早已知道的事实。斯多葛主义并不是一个新概念。维克多·弗兰克尔，《活出意义来》。

Wow. Wow. That's That's And part of it is because I'm just reminding you guys of what you know to be true. Like, stoicism is not a new idea. Viktor Frankl man's search for meaning.

外面发生的事并不是力量的所在。你的力量在于你对它的回应。但这些只是理性的想法。我喜欢说“随他们”然后“随我”，其中“随他们”是你放下对那些你无法控制之事的掌控，而“随我”是你重新夺回力量，专注于你能控制的东西，也就是你对所发生之事的回应。

What's happening out there is not where the power is. Your power is in your response to it. But these are all intellectual ideas. What I love about saying let them and then let me, which is let them is where you release the control over something you can't control. And let me is where you take the power back and focus on what you can control, which is your response to what's happening.

这是工具，但它提醒人们那些自古以来就明白的真理。而我感激的是，曾经几乎失去我在乎的一切，也曾一点点从债务中爬出来，并在过去十六年里一块砖一块砖地重建，我始终专注于真正重要的事。我住在佛蒙特州的偏远地区，我对“做大”毫无兴趣，因为你们知道，一旦某件事火了，每个人都觉得他们知道你下一步该怎么做，每个人都为你看到了更大的愿景。

This is the tool, but it reminds people of what they know to be true since the beginning of time. And what I'm grateful for is that having almost lost everything I care about and having just clawed my way out of debt and built this just brick by brick over the last sixteen years, I have stayed laser focused on what really matters. I live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I have no interest in the bigness aspect of all of it because you guys know the second something hits, everybody thinks they know what you should do next. Everybody sees something bigger for you.

我想有更多时间陪丈夫和孩子。我想享受这份成功，也就是说我并不是一直在工作。所以对我来说，我面对的焦虑或问题更多在于学会说“不”，让别人去对播客该变成什么样或我下一步该做什么抱持他们的期待，并始终专注于不是远方，而是此刻就在我面前的东西。因为如果你忘了是什么把你带到今天，你基本上就会毁掉你所创造的一切。所以我每天醒来都专注于做出让自己骄傲的决定，尽我所能，给别人一点宽容，专注于我能控制的和不能控制的，其余的就顺其自然，你明白吗？

I would like more time with my husband and my kids. I would like to enjoy some of this success, meaning I'm not actually working all the time. And so for me, I think the anxiety or the issues that I face is more around just saying no and letting people have their expectations about what the podcast should become or what I should do next and staying laser focused, not on up here, but on what's right in front of me right now. Because if you lose sight of what got you to where you are, you basically blow up everything you created. And so I am staying very focused on waking up every day and just making decisions that make me feel proud of myself and doing the best that I can, and giving people a little bit of grace and focusing on what I can control and what I can't, and then the rest will take care of itself, you know?

我喜欢这个说法。人们以为哪一件事会让他们快乐，但其实——

I love that. What's the single thing that people think will make them happy but

——依你看并不会？我觉得人们以为会让他们快乐但其实并不会的那件事，就是“达成目标”。有很多研究都表明，当你赚到一百万，你就会快乐；当你赢得比赛，当你得到那个人。对吧。

won't, in your opinion? I think the single thing that people think will make them happy that doesn't is achieving the thing. There's so much research that, you know, when you get the million dollars, you're gonna be happy. When you win the race, when you get the person. Right.

真正让人快乐的是“追求”本身。每个人都需要有让他起床的东西，都需要有让他兴奋的事，不管是电子游戏、观鸟还是做志愿者。如果你没有一件比你更大的、正在追求的事，那你就永远陷在那种生存自动驾驶、日复一日的老套里。

It's the pursuit of it. It's how everybody needs something that gets you out of bed. Everybody needs something that you're excited about, whether it's video games or it's bird watching or it's volunteering. If you don't have something that you're pursuing that's bigger than you, then you're always gonna be stuck in that sort of survival autopilot same old same old.

是啊。你得给自己一个机会去为自己感到骄傲，就像你刚才说的，而那通常就是去追求某件事。

Yeah. You gotta give yourself an opportunity to get proud of yourself, as you said earlier, and and that's usually a pursuit of something.

嗯。但我我觉得，对我来说，我会想建议说，那其中一部分其实是一种灵性体验。

Yeah. I but I I I think that the for me, I I I would imagine, I would suggest that part of that is is a spiritual experience.

非常是。

Very much so.

我觉得那就是真相。有趣的是，我刚才在看《爱情岛》？你看过吗？

And I think that that is that's the truth. It's funny. I was watching sort of Love Island? Yeah. Have you seen it?

就是你那一集，杰森。

It's the episode you're on, Jason.

是的。就在那几天，英国公开赛前几天，高尔夫比赛，斯科蒂·舍夫勒开了一场新闻发布会，我觉得特别有意思。记者们问他各种问题。你是世界第一吗？

Yeah. It's on no. It was it was the sort of a the the few days leading up to the the open, the British Open, the golf, and and Scotty Scheffler gave this press conference that I found to be fascinating. And he's being asked all these questions. Are you world number one?

过去这几年他一直统治着高尔夫。他给出了这样一个回答，全场鸦雀无声。他说，某种程度上我觉得我这辈子就是为了赢这些比赛，为了赢这场拜伦·尼尔森赛，就在我家乡，就为了那几分钟的欢呼，然后我突然意识到，这有什么意义？他接着往下说，我觉得太震撼了。

He has been dominating golf for the last couple of years. And he gave this answer and the room was silent. And he sort of said, part of me thinks I spent all my life to win these tournaments, to win this tournament, the Byron Nelson in his home in my hometown to have a few minutes of like, yeah. And then I realized, what's the point? And he went and he went on from there, and I found it absolutely fascinating.

我就觉得，这个人正处在人生的十字路口，他正经历一种深刻、近乎灵性的体验，他意识到必须……他在寻找视角，他得到了一些，还想要更多。你知道，我们的哥们罗布·米德，那些笑话。视角这东西，如果你没有，就很难获得。而听到这个站在……我是说，几百万……贝斯手

And I go, here is a guy who is at this crossroads, and he's having this deep and almost spiritual experience where he's realizing that there's gotta be he's looking for perspective. He's gaining it and he's looking for more. You know, our buddy Rob Meader, all those jokes. Perspective is a really hard thing to get if you don't have it. And and hearing him that hearing this guy who's at the top of the I mean, the the millions of The bassist

就像在说，然后呢？

is saying like, now what?

嗯，是的。他就是在问，为什么？他其实说了好几次，JB，他说，这有什么意义？听着真的……几乎让人发冷。他不是在自怜，他对所有成功都很感恩，也很感激。

Well, yeah. And he's and he's saying, and why? And he actually said a few times, JB, he said, what's the point? And it was and honestly, it was it was chilling almost listening to him. And he wasn't poor me, and he was very happy for all the success, and he was felt he was very grateful rather.

但同时，你能看出他在为这个想法挣扎。这对我来说真的很有意思。

And yet at the same time, he could see that he was struggling with that idea. There's something really fascinating about that to me.

梅尔，这太棒了。你太出色了。我们占用了你太多时间。太棒了，太棒了。

Mel, this has been a blast. You are brilliant. We've taken way too much of your time. Brilliant. Brilliant.

看看你。

Look at you.

你有

You have

你背后有一整个工作室，你却停下来跟我们聊这个。

a whole studio behind you and you stopped to talk to us about it.

是啊，它在我佛蒙特州车库上面。就是这个。虽然你哪儿也不去，但我们得让你常来波士顿。如果你想，随时欢迎你上《梅尔·罗宾斯播客》。

Yeah, it's above my garage in Vermont. That's this one. Gotta have you very always come to Boston. Although you don't go anywhere, we got you guys do stuff. If you ever want it, you have an open invitation to the Mel Robbins podcast.

谢谢。

Thank you.

太好了。是啊，我是认真的。

That's so nice. Yeah. I mean it.

我很想请你来做节目，在直播镜头里把你剖析一番？那一定很棒。不，我开玩笑的。

I'd love to have you on. Pick you apart on live camera? This would be amazing. No. I'm just kidding.

不，我

No. I

知道。我很期待17号见到你，那一定会很棒。

knew. I'd love I'm really looking forward to meeting you on the seventeenth. That'll be that'll be awesome.

我也很期待见到你。谢谢你，肖恩，选了我。我真的被感动了，现在可以说点 cheesy 的话了，因为我不喜欢别人上来就狂夸。但你们真的给我的婚姻带来了很多问题，因为当我一开始听你们节目，就像大家一样，我回家时会特别嫉妒你们的朋友圈子，我就想，为什么我的朋友这么无聊？

Looking forward to meeting you too. Thank you, Sean, for selecting me. I literally was so moved, and I can tell you the cheese ball thing now because I hate it when people come on and gush and fan. But you caused so many problems in my marriage, you guys, because when I first started listening to you like everybody did, I would come home because I was so jealous of your friend group. And I thought, why are my friends boring?

我回家就跟我老公说，你得开始调侃我，我们不够有趣。结果后来发现，调侃配偶对婚姻并不是好事。

And I would come home to my husband like, you need to start picking on me. We're not interesting enough. And it turns out picking on your spouse is not a great thing for

婚姻。

a marriage.

是啊，你得让他们做自己，对吧？

Yeah. The You gotta let them be who they are, right?

我们的爱的语言。我们的爱的语言。

Our love language. Our love language.

我喜欢这个说法。也谢谢你让我们这些听众感觉像是这个朋友圈的一部分，因为能拥有这样一个朋友圈

I love that. And thank you for allowing us as your listeners to feel like we are part of this friend group, because to have a friend group

你们就是。

You are.

在这里你能真切地看到你们彼此深爱着对方，同时还会互相打趣，这是非常难得的事情。能在我们的生活中通过听你们的方式体验到这种情谊，是一份礼物。所以谢谢你们接纳我们。谢谢

Where you can really see that you guys love each other deeply and still jab at each other, it is a very rare thing. And it's a gift to experience it in our lives to listen to you guys that way. So thank you for welcoming us in. Thank Thank

谢谢你这么说。真的，真的，谢谢你参与这次

you for saying that. And truly, truly, thank thank you for coming on this

通话。太有启发了。是的，这很重要。我知道。

call. So illuminated. Yes. It's very big deal. I know.

我真希望这能持续两个小时。我感觉我学到了很多。

I wish this was just two hours. I feel like I've learned a lot.

我知道，对吧？

I know, right?

我不知道。嗯，也许，也许我们可以开放那些私人会话。

I don't know. Well, can maybe, maybe we can open up those private sessions.

知道？嗯嗯嗯。对对对。我会私信你一对一聊。

Know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna DM you for a one on one.

就一张屌照。行不？

Just a dick pic. Okay?

你肯定知道是谁发的，那是当然。谢谢，梅尔。我很感激。

You'll know who it's from, that's for sure. Thanks, Mel. I appreciate it.

谢谢你，梅尔。

Thank you, Mel.

拜拜，各位。

Bye, guys.

谢谢你，梅尔。

Thank you, Mel.

拜拜。拜拜。

Bye. Bye.

回头见。

See you soon.

待会儿见。拜拜。拜拜。

See you later. Bye. Bye.

啥

What

很荣幸。确实如此。前几天还刚提到她。真是太巧了

a pleasure. That was Absolutely. Literally was just talking about her the other day. That's so

太棒了，真了不起。是啊，她在我名单上已经好几年了。她，你知道，600多万本的销量，简直疯狂。

That's amazing. That's great. Yeah. She's been on my list for like, you know, a couple of years now. But she, you know, over 6,000,000 copies of them That's insane.

让他们。我的意思是，这很了不起。而且像她和，你知道，另一个例子是奥普拉，或者这些人，他们把自己的智慧分享给大众，把他们学到或发现的东西传递给别人，希望也能帮到别人。我喜欢这种事。有点“我能做到，你也能做到”的感觉。

Let them. I mean, it's amazing. And it's also amazing when people like her or for, you know, another example would be Oprah or these people who lend their brains, you know, to the masses for what they've learned or discovered, and they pass it on to other people, hoping they can help other people too. I love that kind of stuff. Kind like if I can do it, you can do it kind of thing.

是啊。多棒的礼物啊，正因为她个人的境遇，触底反弹，就像她说的，出于必要和绝望发展出这些应对技巧，结果她找到了一个途径，把所有这些知识和启发分享给数百万人，显然也帮助了无数人，这是多么棒的人生利用方式，对吧？我们老了回头看，这些年有没有虚度？多么伟大的成功。

Yeah. What a gift that she's as a result of her own personal circumstance, you know, and touching bottom as she was saying, you know, and developing these coping skills out of necessity and desperation, that she found herself with a vehicle to share all of that knowledge and enlightenment with so many millions of people, and obviously has helped, and so many folks, what a great use of your life, right? We're all going to look back when we're old and gray and did we lose our years right? And what a great success.

听她说话，你会觉得，哦对，这很有道理，我怎么早不知道？基本上全是常识。

And you listen to her talk and it's kind of like, oh yeah, well that makes sense. How did I not know that? It's like all common sense basically.

嗯，我们只是需要有人告诉我们。我觉得我们内心都有一些应对技巧，但可能一直沉睡，直到有人用语言表达出来，你会想，哦，有人把我隐约感觉到的东西说出来了，但我不知道能不能用。如果有人把它用语言甚至带点科学形式说出来，你就会想，哦太好了，那就用起来吧。

Well, we just need to be told. I mean, I think we all have some coping skills in us that, but maybe they're just sort of dormant until you hear somebody put them to words and you go, Oh, somebody just articulated what I kind of feel in me, but didn't know if I was allowed to kind of use it. And if somebody kind of puts it into words and puts it in somewhat of a scientific form, you're like, oh great. Yeah, let's use that.

是啊，当然。当然。伙计们，我能分享一些吗？

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Guys, can I share some?

哎呀。哎呀。

Oh boy. Oh boy.

我能分享几个我在这儿学的英式词汇吗？

Can I share some British words I've learned while I'm here?

当然。

Sure.

我想是吧。我的意思是，我们有多少选择呢？

I guess so. I mean, how much of a choice do we have?

不多。只要三十秒。

Not much. It's gonna take thirty seconds.

在你进入双段之前，想听个老爸笑话吗？

Do want a dad joke before you get into your bi section?

当然。你想来一个吗？

Sure. You want one?

好啊。哦，我喜欢。

Yeah. Oh, I like it.

我们有

We've got

一个听书的。别乱翻。就把手指放在——我 literally 就把它举起来了。

a book listener. Just don't don't rifle through. Just stick your finger on I literally a certain just held it up.

对。这里，一个好电梯笑话在好多层都管用。

Yeah. Here, a good a good elevator joke works on so many levels.

太棒了。喜欢。太棒了。喜欢，喜欢。谢谢。

Great. Love it. Great. Love Love it. Thank you.

现在进入我们的双段。

And into our bisection now.

现在你已经准备好了

And now you're pre

说到这个，我正好听到了这三句话。你搭电梯，我走“苹果和梨”。我原来不知道“苹果和梨”指的是“楼梯”。

Speaking of that, I've just these are the three things I've heard. You take the lift, I'll take the apples and pears. I didn't know apples and pears meant stares.

那是伦敦东区口音，对吧？

That's that's cockney, right?

是伦敦东区口音，没错，他们就这么说话。

It's cockney, yeah, the way they do that.

我不知道。然后要是有人跟你说“给我打狗和骨头”，我接到“狗和骨头”的电话，我原来不知道“电话”就是“狗和骨头”。

I don't know. And then if somebody calls you, give me a call on my dog and bone. I got a call on my dog and bone. Didn't know phone was dog and bone.

你说了五个词来代替一个词。我不是很懂，不过继续吧。

You're saying five words instead of one. Don't really get it, but go ahead.

没错。最后一件事，有人带了一些百吉饼来，这是真事。那天排练《奥斯卡之夜》时有人带了百吉饼来。

That's right. And then the last one, somebody brought in, this is a true story. Somebody brought in bagels the other day for at rehearsal for a good night Oscar at

我迫不及待了。看看谁回来了，他从玻璃里出来了。你以为他走了，结果“百吉”回来了。

the I can't wait. Look who's back. He's out of the glass. Just when you thought he went away. He's the bag.

看看谁回来了。总之，他从一家店买了这些百吉饼，这是真的。他们把“bagel”拼成了 B-E-I-G-E-L，那是品牌名。

Look who's back. Anyway, so he brought these bagels from a store and this is the truth. And the way they spelled bagel was B E I G E L. And that was the brand name.

那你会怎么念？

And how would you pronounce that?

你猜怎么读？你会怎么

How would you guess? How would you

读它？我觉得是“耶”。你觉得读作“耶”。

pronounce it? Think it's yeah. Think you pronounce it. Yeah.

会

Would

你想要一打百吉饼吗？不。

you like a dozen bagel? No.

你想要一个百吉饼吗？

Would you like a bagel?

你想要百吉饼吗？

Would you like bagel?

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