7：你的话语

从第一集开始，我就觉得天哪。

From the first episode, I just felt like, oh my goodness.

我没有疯。

I am not crazy.

不只是我一个人这样。

It's not just me.

这是《被售的故事》，由APM报道制作的播客。

This is Sold a Story, a podcast from APM Reports.

我是艾米莉·汉福德。

I'm Emily Hanford.

汉福德。

Hanford.

今天早上我早起去散步，就是为了听最后一集。

I got up early this morning to go for a walk to listen to the last episode.

我们收到了很多你们的反馈。

We've been hearing from a lot of you.

我刚听完这个播客。

I just finished the podcast.

我因为太着迷了，竟然开车一小时开错了方向。

I, like, literally drove an hour the wrong direction because I was so captivated.

我们收到了很多邮件和语音留言。

We got emails and voicemails.

你好。

Hi, there.

嗨。

Hi.

你好。

Hello.

下午好。

Good afternoon.

嗨，艾米丽和团队。

Hi, Emily and team.

嗨。

Hi.

我曾经就是那种

I was totally one

来自第六集的一个人，当时我想，

of those people from episode six who thought,

为什么这个不管用？

why isn't this working?

你概括了我整个二十九年的公共教育生涯。

You summarized my whole twenty nine years in public education.

我

I

就是那位老师，同时也是那位家长，

am that teacher and I'm also that parent of a

孩子并没有学到这些。

student who did not learn this.

我接受过阅读恢复教师的培训。

I was trained as a reading recovery teacher.

我曾培训其他人使用这种提示系统进行平衡识字教学。

I trained other people in balanced literacy using that cueing system.

我很生气。

I'm mad.

我为我教过的孩子们感到难过，我曾如此深信这套方法，以至于被引导相信了它。

I'm saddened for the kids that I've taught and believed in this so much that I was led to believe this.

你很好地讲出了我们的故事。

You did a wonderful job telling our story.

我们听到了赞扬。

We've heard praise.

我们听到了批评。

We've heard criticism.

但我们在回应播客时听到的很多内容都是个人故事。

But a lot of what we've been hearing in response to the podcast are personal stories.

作为一名教师的头几年里，

For the first few years as as a teacher,

我是个好老师，但不是个称职的识字教师。

I was a good teacher, but I wasn't a good literacy teacher.

我收到了我小女儿的老师发来的一封邮件。

I got an email from my younger daughter's teacher.

就在几年前，我儿子还在上一年级的时候。

Just a few years ago when my son was in first grade.

她当时所在的学校在弗吉尼亚州。

The school she was in at the time in Virginia.

当我女儿上幼儿园的时候，

When my daughter was in kindergarten

她会试图根据页面上的单词来猜词。

She would try to send out a word on the page.

她会抓住单词的开头部分

She would get the beginning part

单词的开头部分。

of the word.

我们学区最喜爱的阅读专家之一告诉我，我感到的内疚

Of my favorite reading specialists in our school district says to me, the guilt that I feel

在本期节目中，我们将向您讲述听众对索尔塔故事的回应。

In this episode, we're telling you about some of what we heard from listeners in response to Solta's story.

我读了很多我们收到的邮件。

I read a lot of the emails we got.

我听了大量的留言。

I listened to a lot of the messages.

但我实在忙不过来，所以找人帮忙了。

But I couldn't keep up with them all, so I got some help.

我是伊莱扎。

I'm Eliza.

认识一下伊莱扎·比林厄姆。

Meet Eliza Billingham.

我是一名研究助理。

I'm a research assistant.

伊莉莎阅读或聆听了我们收到的每一条信息。

Eliza read or listened to every message we received.

那么，我们听到了谁的声音呢？

So who do we hear from?

关于那些给我们的来电和邮件回应索尔塔故事的人，你能告诉我们些什么？

What can you tell us about who called us and emailed us in response to Solda's story?

天哪。

Oh, man.

我们没听到的人可能才更少。

Who we didn't hear from might be a shorter list.

我们有老师，显然，从准教师到退休教师都有。

We've got teachers, obviously, everyone from preteachers to retirement.

还有家长、祖父母、学校心理学家、阅读专家、图书管理员、社会工作者、教授、律师、出版商、校董会成员、管理人员，甚至还有学生。

Parents, grandparents, school psychologists, reading specialists, librarians, social workers, professors, lawyers, publishers, and school board members, administrators, and even students.

我们听到了很多孩子的声音。

We heard from a bunch of kids.

当我听这个播客时，我听到了自己在求学多年中一直挣扎的问题。

And when I listen to the podcast, I hear a lot of what I've struggled with throughout all the years in school.

这是杰克·弗里曼。

This is Jack Freeman.

他13岁。

He's 13.

他妈妈给我们写了信，然后我采访了杰克和他的弟弟。

His mom wrote to us, and then I interviewed Jack and his younger brother.

你好。

Hi.

我叫库珀，今年10岁。

My name is Cooper, and I am 10.

我非常喜欢这个播客。

And I really love the podcast.

男孩们和妈妈一起在车里听。

The boys listened with their mom in the car.

所以我妈开始放这个播客

So my mom started putting it

在往返补习的路上经常放。

on a lot during the car ride back and forth between tutoring.

杰克和库珀是孩子，他们因为在学校没学会阅读而接受私人辅导。

Jack and Cooper are kids who are getting private tutoring because they weren't taught how to read in school.

我还记得一点点

I do remember a little bit

你们在播客里提到的，遮住单词并用工具猜测单词的内容。

of what you talked about in your podcast about them covering up the word and trying to use tools to guess that word.

我还记得便利贴。

And I remember the sticky note.

我记得猜单词。

I remember guess a word.

那里有一张沙发。

There was a couch.

那里有一块地毯。

There was a carpet.

到处都是这些东西。

There was all this stuff.

他们就会说，去找个地方读书吧。

And they'd be like, go find a spot to read.

但库珀说他当时很迷茫。

But Cooper says he was lost.

我在幼儿园、一年级、二年级的时候都读不了书。

I couldn't read in kindergarten, first grade, second grade.

我在黑暗中奔跑。

I was running in darkness.

我不知道该怎么做。

I don't I didn't know what to do.

正是在新冠疫情期间学校停课时，他的父母才意识到他和他弟弟有多困难。

It was during the COVID school shutdown that his parents began to recognize how much he and his brother were struggling.

那时，他们的妈妈开始在家教他们，并带他们去辅导班。

That's when their mom started homeschooling them and taking them to tutoring.

我觉得我终于学会了阅读。

And I think I finally knowing how to read.

我从未想过自己能做得这么好。

I never thought I'd be doing this well.

我以为我只是……你知道的，我以为自己走上了错误的路，根本找不到一条通往正确道路、学会阅读的路。

I thought I was just you know, I thought I took the bad path, I wasn't even going to find a path to go to the good path and learn how to read.

所以你是说，小时候你真的想过，也许你永远都学不会阅读？

So you mean as a little kid, actually thought you had the thought maybe you won't ever learn to read?

是的。

Yes.

我当时就想，我该怎么学会阅读呢？

I was like, how am I going to learn how to read?

怎么做到的？

How?

我直到11岁才学会阅读。

I did not learn how to read until I was 11 years old.

我们也听到了成年人的声音。

We heard from adults too.

那些曾经阅读困难的成年人。

Adults who were once struggling readers.

我叫布鲁克·安德森。

My name is Brooke Anderson.

当我终于学会阅读时，刚开始明白过来的那一刻，我的第一反应并不是快乐、自豪或解脱。

When I finally did learn how to read, the first sort of reaction as it started to click for me was not one of happiness or or pride or relief.

而是极度的愤怒。

It was just extreme anger.

我非常愤怒，因为从来没有人想过要教我如何拼读单词。

I was enraged that no one had thought to teach me how to sound out words before.

我当时就在脑子里想，天哪，怎么就没人为我这么教过呢？

I was just in my head thinking, what the Like, how did no one think to teach me this way?

我这一辈子都觉得自己是个傻子。

I've gone through my entire life thinking that I'm an idiot.

她还感到内疚。

She also felt guilty.

内疚是因为她终于学会了阅读。

Guilty because she was finally taught how to read.

你知道，我从小在纽约市一个富裕的郊区，作为一个白人，成长于一个中上层家庭，我得到了我需要的帮助。

You know, I grew up white in an upper middle class family in in a wealthy New York City suburb, and I got the help that I needed.

我非常清楚，像我这样的其他孩子却得不到这样的帮助。

And I was very aware that, you know, other kids like me were not going to get that help.

其他人也谈到了类似的幸存者内疚感。

Other people talked about feeling the same kind of survivor's guilt.

一位家长在推特上写道：当我意识到我的儿子多么幸运，我们有能力负担家教时，我哭了；而想到那些永远无法获得同样帮助的孩子们，这又是多么悲哀。

One parent wrote on Twitter, I cried when I realized how fortunate my son was that we could afford tutoring and how tragic it was for all the children who would never have access to the same help.

我们听到了很多家长的分享。

We heard from a lot of parents.

我昨晚熬夜听完了你们的整个六集播客，真的深深触动了我。

I stayed up late last night to listen to your entire six episode podcast, and, man, it really struck a chord.

这些故事很难听下去，因为它们太贴近现实了。

The stories are hard to listen to because they hit so close to home.

你们的播客中有太多内容让我产生共鸣，尤其是关于我三年级孩子的经历。

So much of your podcast resonated with me and what I've experienced with my third grader.

我不断被告诉，到了三年级一切都会好起来。

I kept being told that everything would be fixed by third grade.

一切都会没事的。

Everything would be fine.

家长们知道孩子有问题，但直到听到索尔的故事，他们才明白问题究竟出在哪里。

Parents knew there was a problem, but many of them couldn't figure out what the problem was until they heard Sold a story.

你好。

Hi.

我只是想告诉你，我觉得你的播客改变了我的人生。

I just had to tell you that I think your podcast has changed my life.

这是来自新泽西的一位妈妈，珍。

This is Jen, a mom in New Jersey.

几周前的一个晚上，我加班到很晚，你的播客突然播放出来，我当场尖叫起来。

I was working late one night, a few weeks ago, and your podcast came on and I started screaming.

我丈夫在楼下。

Husband was downstairs.

太棒了，他是一名老师，教高中，我们的儿子八岁，我们为儿子的问题付出了巨大的努力。

Great papers, he's a teacher and he teaches high school and our son is eight years old and we have struggled so hard with our son.

他是个可爱又非常聪明的男孩，但我和我丈夫都是狂热的读者。

He's he's a delightful and very smart boy, but, my husband and I are both voracious readers.

我们完全不明白自己哪里做错了，为什么我们的儿子在阅读上如此困难，甚至讨厌阅读。

We could not understand what we were doing wrong and why our son was having such a hard time reading and hating to read.

她说他们一直责怪自己。

She says they blamed themselves.

他们责怪孩子，但直到她听了这个播客，才开始思考他在学校是如何被教导的。

They blamed their kid, but they never thought much about how he was being taught in school until she heard the podcast.

于是我翻出了他幼儿园和一年级的所有作业。

And I I I pulled out all of his schoolwork from kindergarten and first grade.

果然，那些书都在那里。

And sure enough, there were the books.

那些字母也在那里。

There were the letters.

于是我给校长打了电话。

So I called the principal.

校长对她说：是的。

And the principal said to her, yes.

我们教授这些策略和这些课程。

We teach those strategies and those programs.

她每周都给他发送每一集播客。

She sent him the podcast every episode, every week.

她不知道他有没有听，但她也把播客发送给了她儿子学校的老师们。

She doesn't know if he listened, but she sent the podcast to teachers at her son's school too.

她说，有些老师回信说，我们听了，现在正在讨论这个问题。

And she says some of them wrote back and said, we listened, and we're talking about this now.

所以我的希望是，他们正在慢慢远离这种做法，我非常感谢这个播客。

So my hope is is that they're slowly moving away from it, and I'm so thankful for this podcast.

另一位妈妈告诉我们，是她儿子学校的一位老师建议她听这个播客的。

Another mom told us that it was a teacher at her son's school who told her to listen to the podcast.

上周，我们学校正在举行家长会，我像往年一样，为他四年级的老师预约了一次家长会。

Last week, my school's parent teacher conferences were happening, and I scheduled a parent teacher conference with his fourth grade teacher, like I always do every year with his regular teacher.

但今年，我还额外预约了一次与他的阅读专家的会议。

But this year, I also scheduled a conference with his reading specialist.

这是莉兹。

This is Liz.

她说，她儿子从幼儿园起就一直由同一位阅读专家辅导，所以她以前就见过她。

She says her son has been working with the same reading specialist since kindergarten, so she'd met with her before.

但这次，与他阅读专家的会议感觉非常奇怪、不同寻常。

But this time, it was a really weird and strange and different vibe to the conference with his reading specialist.

她几乎要流泪了。

She was almost getting emotional.

她在十五分钟的Zoom电话会议一开始就开始道歉，说她根本没有帮助到科尔。

She started out the fifteen minute teleconference over Zoom apologizing and saying that she hasn't helped Cole at all.

她说得非常快。

She was talking really fast.

这看起来非常情绪化，但她却说：‘Soul Story’。

It seemed really emotional, but she said, Soul story.

求你了，你一定要听听《Soul Story》。

Please, you've got to listen to Soul the story.

于是她去听了。

So she listened.

我真的很抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

哇。

Wow.

这是我的儿子。

This is my son.

你知道，这是我的孩子。

You know, this is my child.

太难过了。

So upset.

但最重要的是，我只想立刻改变现状，他的阅读专家也这么想。

But mostly, I just wanna change it right away, and so does his reading specialist.

我非常感谢她，也非常感谢这个播客，因为我觉得你改变了我儿子的一生，我会把这期播客分享给每一个我遇到的人。

And I'm so grateful to her, and I'm so grateful to this podcast because I think you just changed my son's life, and I'm gonna share this podcast with everyone I meet.

哦，抱歉。

Oh, sorry.

天哪。

Gosh.

我根本没想到自己会这么情绪化，但确实是这样。

I had no idea I was gonna get too emotional, but, yeah.

哇。

Wow.

这是一件大事。

This is a big deal.

我们还听到了许多老师的分享。

We also heard from a lot of teachers.

嗨，艾米丽。

Hi, Emily.

我叫亚历克斯。

My name's Alex.

亚历克斯是一位阅读恢复教师。

Alex was a reading recovery teacher.

阅读恢复项目是由玛丽·克莱伊创立的，她就是你在播客中听到的那位来自新西兰的女性。

Reading recovery is the program that was started by Mari Clay, the woman from New Zealand you heard about in the podcast.

尽管听到我曾经信奉的教育理念是错误的很难接受，但这让我深入思考了作为一名阅读恢复教师以及使用阅读恢复和Fontes、Pannell方法教授学生阅读时所经历的种种挫败感。

As difficult as it is to hear that a belief system that I adhered to was erroneous, it made me think a lot about the frustrations I experienced as a reading recovery teacher and also as a reading specialist using reading recovery and then Fontes and Pannell with the students I I taught to read or believed that I taught to read.

亚历克斯希望我们了解，为什么阅读恢复对他如此有吸引力。

Alex wanted us to know why reading recovery was so appealing to him.

我对如何教孩子阅读一无所知，这正是我攻读识字教育硕士学位的原因，之后便抓住机会接受了阅读恢复教师的培训。

I knew nothing about teaching reading, which is why I got my master's degree in literacy and then would just jump to the chance to be trained as a reading recovery teacher.

这确实改变了我在课堂上的教学方式，让我更加关注学生，并有能力采取行动帮助孩子阅读——这主要涉及把一本他们能读懂的书放在他们面前。

And it certainly did change the way I taught in the classroom in terms of my attention and my ability to do something to help kids read, which mostly involved putting a book that they could read in front of them.

从很多方面来说，教学是一项孤独的职业。

Teaching is a lonely profession in many respects.

尤其是阅读恢复培训的高强度，要求你定期接受同事的观察，同时也要观察同事，这过程中充满风险与亲密感，你会与同事建立起深厚的信任。

And the intensity of the reading recovery training in particular, where you're being observed by your colleagues and observing your colleagues with regularity throughout the time that you're a reading recovery teacher involves a lot of risk, a lot of intimacy, and you build tremendous trust in your colleagues.

你还会受到一位教师领袖的指导。

And you're guided by a teacher leader.

这是一个非常完善的专业教育与专业发展模式，但它同时也成功地营造了一个封闭的社群。

And it's a wonderfully constructed model for professional education, professional development, but it's also worked very well to create an insulated community.

这种社群不会轻易接受观念上的改变，除非这些改变来自高层。

That kind of community is not gonna be open to changes in perception unless they come from on high.

而当时，那就是我们所有人都崇拜的玛蒂·克莱。

And in that case, it was Marty Clay, who we all worshiped.

他说，尽管如此，他确实有一些挥之不去的问题和疑虑。

He says he did have some nagging questions, though, some doubts.

但我开始有所察觉，只是还无法真正承认。

But I started to see, but I couldn't really acknowledge.

所以我非常感谢你的报道，因为你以一种非常温和、非常友善的方式，让我接受了自己早已怀疑的事实。

And so I really appreciate your reporting because it in a very gentle way, in a very kind way, you've let me accept what I suspected.

我回想起那些我教过识字的孩子们，其中很多内容其实是他们自己学会的，而我只是在一旁观察。

And I think back about the the children I taught to read, and many of it was just they taught themselves, and I got to watch it.

当然，也有一些现任和前任教师对亚历克斯在播客中的感受持不同看法。

Of course, there are current and former teachers who did not feel the way Alex did about the podcast.

58名教育工作者联名写了一封信，批评索尔达的报道。

A group of 58 educators wrote a letter criticizing Solda's story.

这个团体包括露西·卡金斯以及其他与海涅曼出版社合作过的人。

The group included Lucy Calkins and other people who have published with Heinemann.

这封信谴责该播客，称其‘攻击了一群引领开创性研究并推动我们领域发展的教育工作者的诚信’。

The letter condemned the podcast for, quote, attacking the integrity of a group of educators who have led pioneering research and helped advance our field.

另一位女性写道：请停止责怪教师。

Another woman wrote, please stop blaming teachers.

教师是必须服从指令的雇员。

Teachers are employees who must do as they are told.

但许多教师写信表示，他们相信了别人告诉他们的话。

But many teachers wrote to say they believed what they were told.

自从你开始撰写关于阅读科学的文章以来，我学到了很多。

I've learned a lot about the science of reading since you started writing about the topic.

我

I

我对为什么我们曾经持有那样的观点有一些想法，想与你分享。

have some ideas about why we thought the way we did and want to share them.

在我作为课堂教师的早期岁月里，我没有专注于解码，因为我希望教孩子们深入阅读，建立联系，并运用深度批判性思维来整合信息。

I didn't focus on decoding during my early years as a classroom teacher because I wanted to teach kids to read deeply, to make connections and synthesize information using deep critical thinking.

我们这一群人把拼读法视为一种肤浅的技能，认为不需要太多关注。

And we as a group wrote off phonics as a superficial skill that didn't need much attention.

我认识的大多数老师都很容易学会阅读，仿佛是自然而然的。

Most of the teachers I knew came to reading easily, seemingly automatically.

因此，我们认为我们的学生也会如此，这对我们来说是合乎逻辑的。

So it made sense to us that our students would as well.

她说，教孩子们认字感觉就像不相信他们，不相信他们自己学习的能力。

She says teaching kids how to read the words felt kind of like not believing in them, not believing in their ability to learn on their own.

这让人觉得不公平。

And that felt inequitable.

我们相信玛丽·克莱的研究以及丰塞和皮内尔的方法，尤其是露西·卡金斯关于阅读与写作工作坊的体系，因为这些理念与我们当时的思维方式一致。

We believed the Marie Clay studies and the Fonces and Pinnell methods and especially Lucy Calkins structures around readers and writers workshop because it went with how we were all thinking.

此外，我们也不知道该如何教授拼读法。

Also, we didn't know how to teach phonics.

所以，事情就是这样。

So there you have it.

我们被灌输了这个故事。

We were told the story.

其他老师打电话来说，他们从未相信过克莱、方塔斯、平内尔和卡金斯及其推广的理念。

Other teachers called to say they never believed in Clay and Fountas and Pinnell and Cawkins or the ideas they were promoting.

你的播客揭示了我过去十一年教学生涯中一直想告诉人们的事情。

Your podcast shined a light on something I've been trying to tell people for the last eleven years of my teaching career.

这是露奎莎·安德伍德。

This is Luquisha Underwood.

我小时候是个努力阅读的孩子。

I was a striving reader as a child.

我现在成为一名阅读教师，是因为我不希望我经历过的遭遇发生在数百万其他孩子身上。

I am now a reading teacher because I did not want what happened to me to happen to the millions of other children.

我害怕把孩子的阅读学习能力交给学校，因为我知道他们被灌输了什么，也知道那些方法行不通。

I was afraid to turn over my own children's ability to learn, reading to schools because I know what they've been told, and I know that it doesn't work.

她说，由于对被要求教授的项目心存疑虑，她不得不做出艰难的决定。

She says she's had to make hard decisions because she had doubts about programs she was expected to teach.

早在去年，我就看到一所学校购买了LLI分级阅读项目，我感到非常反感，以至于在被迫使用这个我知道无效的项目后，我直接请了假。

As early as last year, I saw a school purchase the LLI Leveled Reader program, I cringed so much so that I actually took a leave after trying to be forced to use the program that I know doesn't work.

总之，非常感谢你为这项工作付出的努力，我会继续尽我所能帮助人们学会阅读。

Anyhow, thank you so much for the work you've put into this, and I'm gonna keep doing what I can to help people learn to read.

你好。

Hi.

我是一名一年级的幼儿园老师。

I'm a first year kindergarten teacher.

我们也听到了一些试图挑战现有体系的新教师的声音。

We heard from new teachers trying to buck the system too.

我刚听完这个播客。

I just finished listening to the podcast.

这位老师没有说出她的名字。

This teacher didn't say her name.

我所在的学区全面采用露西教学法，几乎不支持语音教学。

I teach in a district that uses Lucy across the board and does not support very much phonics instruction.

所以我只能自己想办法弥补这些缺失，我不教提示系统，但必须保密。

And so I try to do things myself to fill in the gaps, and I don't teach the queuing system, but I have to keep it secret.

听完这个播客后，我感觉自己陷入了困境。

And after listening to the podcast, I just feel stuck.

我喜欢我所在的学区。

Like, I like my district.

我之所以喜欢它，是因为有很多原因，但我甚至不确定能否找到一个按照科学方法教授阅读的学区。

I like it for quite a few different reasons, and I just don't even know if I'd be able to find a district that did teach reading that was aligned with science.

学区内另一个明确的选择就是闭嘴、低调行事。

The other option I have in the district has made this quite clear is to keep your mouth shut, keep your head down.

因为如果你开口或试图坚持立场，就会惹上麻烦。

Because if you say something or if you try to take a stand, there will be trouble.

我不知道接下来该何去何从。

And I don't know where to go from here.

所以我想知道，你是否认识其他老师也处于类似的处境，或者曾经处于这种境地并找到了下一步该怎么做的人？

So I wonder if you have any other teachers who are in a similar position or teachers who have been in that position and figured out out what happens next.

你是选择留下并努力抗争，还是离开去一个更符合你所知科学教学理念的学区？

Do you stay and try to fight, or do you leave to a district that's more aligned with what you know to be true?

广告暂停后，我们马上回来。

We'll be back after a break.

你好。

Hi.

我是艾米丽，我想提醒大家，《Sold a Story》是由独立公共媒体新闻制作的。

It's Emily, and I'm here to remind you that Sold a Story is a product of independent public media journalism.

这种严谨、长篇的调查性报道需要大量的人力和时间。

This kind of rigorous long form investigative reporting involves a lot of people and a lot of time.

制作成本很高，但我们坚持做，因为这项工作具有影响力。

It's expensive to produce, but we do it because the work has impact.

你现在可以通过访问 soldastory.org/donate 或点击节目说明中的链接来支持我们的持续报道。

You can support our ongoing reporting right now by making a donation at soldastory.org/donate or clicking on the link in the show notes.

大家好。

Hi, everybody.

人们听了《Sold a Story》之后，都想谈论它。

After people heard Solda's story, they wanted to talk about it.

非常感谢你们的到来。

Thank you so much for coming.

这是一场关于《Sol de story》的Zoom欢乐时光。

This is a Zoom happy hour to talk about Sol de story.

如果可以的话，请留下你们的名字，也许还有你们来自哪里，也欢迎告诉我们你们在喝什么。

If you would not mind just putting your name, maybe where you're from, always feel free to tell us what you're drinking.

我们听说了像这样的多个《Sol de story》讨论小组。

We heard about a bunch of Sol de story discussion groups like this one.

感叹号。

Exclamation mark.

这一系列周五晚上的欢乐时光，是由康涅狄格州的一位老师发起的。

This series of Friday night happy hours was started by a teacher in Connecticut.

我叫弗吉尼亚·昆恩·鲁尼。

My name is Virginia Quinn Looney.

我教一年级已经有一年多一点了。

I've been teaching first grade for a little over a minute.

她已经教了一年级十九年。

She's been teaching first grade for nineteen years.

她说她觉得阅读教学中有些地方不对劲。

She says she knew something wasn't right with reading instruction.

比如，我确实教过自然拼读，我一直都知道，把便利贴贴在字母上根本没用。

Like, did teach phonics, and I and I've always known that, you know, Post it notes over letters is really not effective.

但她对自己产生了怀疑，因为周围所有人都全力支持平衡式读写教学、露西·卡金斯和丰塔西纳·帕内尔。

But she doubted herself because everyone around her seemed to be all in on balanced literacy and Lucy Calkins and Fountasin Panell.

整个教育界都在拥抱这种做法。

All of education was embracing this.

所有我的阅读指导者都把我叫到一边，告诉我这就是正确的方法。

All of the people that were my literacy leaders were sitting me down and telling me this is the way.

她说，在听了索尔达的故事后，她彻夜难眠。

She says after she heard Solda's story, she couldn't sleep.

我睡不着，因为我在想，我能做些什么？

I couldn't sleep because I was like, what can I do?

于是她发起了欢乐时光活动。

So she started the happy hours.

欢迎各位。

Welcome, everybody.

非常感谢大家的到来，推动了这场对话的进展。

Thank you so much for being here and and moving the conversation forward.

她说，将近400人报名参加了第一次欢乐时光活动。

She says nearly 400 people signed up for the first happy hour.

来自世界各地的人们。

I'm People from all over the world.

我们有来自南威尔士的参与者。

We had South Wales.

我们还有来自加纳的参与者。

We had Ghana.

有很多地道的口音。

There were some great accents.

来了很多老师。

Lots of teachers came.

还有校长、学区主管、校董会成员、大学生和家长也都来了。

So did principals, superintendents, school board members, college students, parents.

对我来说，这部分责任在于我，必须回报那些我本该为他们做得更好的家庭。

So much of this for me is it's incumbent on me to pay back those families that I needed to have done better for.

这是弗吉尼亚在一次快乐时光活动中的情况。

This is Virginia at one of the happy hours.

我们必须彻底放弃平衡识字教学。

We have to just be done with balanced literacy.

它必须完全消失，我们必须直接教孩子们如何阅读。

Like, it just has to go away, and we have to just start directly teaching our kids how to read.

弗吉尼亚，我也有同样的感受。

Virginia, I feel the same way.

这是另一位来参加欢乐时光的老师。

This is one of the other teachers who came to the happy hour.

我觉得自己必须回馈社区，因为我深受影响，曾经是一名支持平衡识字教学的老师。

I feel like I have to give back to the community because I was so ingrained, and I was a balanced literacy teacher and supportive it so much.

我在这条路上已经走了大约四年，对此充满热情。

And I've been on that same journey for about probably four years now, and I am so passionate about it.

我花更多时间阅读和上课，几乎把所有空闲时间都投入到了这件事上。

And I spend more time reading and taking classes, and it's just I devote all my free time to this.

当我六年前开始报道这个话题时，这就是我所期待的。

This is what I think I was hoping for when I started reporting on this topic more than six years ago.

我希望我的报道能引发人们对阅读科学研究所的关注，成为人们进一步学习的契机。

I was hoping that the reporting would get people interested in the scientific research on reading, that it would be an invitation to learn more.

确实如此。

And it has been.

我认为，由于这项报道，很多人对孩子们如何学习阅读有了更多的了解。

I think a lot of people know a lot more about how kids learn to read because of this reporting.

但我主要关注的是成为优秀读者所需条件中的一方面。

But I have focused mostly on one of what it takes to be a good reader.

我专注于如何能够快速而准确地阅读单词，因为这一点至关重要。

I've focused on what it takes to be able to read words quickly and accurately, because that's critical.

如果不擅长认读单词，就不可能成为优秀的读者。

You can't be a good reader without being good at reading the words.

但这还不够。

But that's not enough.

阅读还涉及更多内容。

There is a lot more to reading.

这一直是我报道中受到的批评之一，即过于侧重单词阅读，而对理解力——即理解所读内容所需的能力——关注不足。

And this has been one of the criticisms of my reporting, that it's focused too much on word reading and not enough on comprehension, on what it takes to understand what you read.

在索尔达的故事发布后，我收到了一些人表达这种批评的意见。

And I heard from people who expressed that criticism in response to Solda's story.

我是克劳德·戈德堡。

I'm Claude Goldenberg.

克劳德·戈德堡曾是斯坦福大学的教育学教授。

Claude Goldenberg was a professor of education at Stanford.

他几年前退休了。

He retired a few years ago.

但我仍然积极参与阅读问题、阅读政策、阅读障碍和阅读研究的工作。

But I'm still involved in working through reading issues, reading policy, reading problems, reading research.

他在听了播客前两集后给我发了一封邮件。

He wrote me an email after hearing the first two episodes of the podcast.

你在十月份写给我的那封邮件中提到，我们正面临一个巨大风险：看似无意地将基础技能奉为万能解药，这可能会让我们自己挖下一个更深的坑。

One of the things that you said in that email to me in October is there's a huge danger we're digging another hole for ourselves by appearing, maybe unintentionally, to extol foundational skills as silver bullets.

你能再详细说说这一点吗？

So can you say more about that?

也就是说，这个风险具体是什么？

Like, what's the danger?

你在那里实际观察到了什么？

What are you actually noticing out there?

嗯，我有一种感觉，有时甚至不止是感觉，就是这种轻视的态度，是的。

Well, I get the impression, and sometimes more than just an impression, there's like this this sort of dismissing, like, yeah.

好吧。

Okay.

对。

Right.

我们知道还有更多内容，但你必须先把基础技能掌握好。

We know there's more, but you gotta get those foundational skills down.

他担心学校没有足够重视词汇发展和知识积累，而这些对孩子们成为优秀读者至关重要。

He's concerned that schools aren't paying enough attention to the vocabulary development and knowledge building that's necessary for kids to become good readers.

我想我在邮件里提到过，即使你每集只是简单提一句，比如三十秒。

I think one of the things I said in my email was even if you were to, in each episode, just make a brief aside, you know, thirty seconds.

各位，我们知道阅读不仅仅是基础技能。

Look, ladies and gentlemen, we know there's more to reading than foundational skills.

我们也知道，这一直是阅读教育中的一个明显短板。

We also know that that's been a glaring gap in reading education.

但任何人都不应该听完这个播客后认为，只要把基础技能搞好了，一切就都没问题了。

But no one should walk away from this podcast thinking that if if he just got foundational skills right, everything would be okay.

他说得对。

He's right.

如果所有学校只提高教孩子识字的能力，情况也不会好转。

Things will not be okay if all schools get better at is teaching kids how to decode words.

关键是这一点。

And here's the thing.

确保孩子们获得理解所读内容所需的知识和词汇，可能才是更大的挑战。

Making sure that kids get the knowledge and vocabulary they need to comprehend what they read may actually be the bigger challenge.

这需要多年的学校教育，而且家庭收入和教育背景往往会产生重大影响。

It takes years and years of schooling, and it's where family income and educational background tend to make a big difference.

因为孩子们并不仅仅在学校里学习词汇和知识。

Because kids don't just learn vocabulary and knowledge at school.

他们在家里通过日常经历、遇到的人、去过的地点以及接触的信息学到了很多东西。

They learn a lot at home and through the experiences they have every day, the people they meet, the places they go, the information they're exposed to.

在大规模范围内提升整个群体的识字能力是一项艰巨的任务。

The challenge of bringing literacy on a massive scale to an entire population is a tall order.

克劳德·戈德堡不希望任何人误以为，只要教会孩子如何解码单词，就能提高他们的阅读理解能力。

Claude Goldenberg doesn't want anyone to be under the impression that just teaching kids how to decode words will lead to better reading comprehension.

我们需要一支充分理解这些复杂性和细微差别的教学队伍。

We need to have a teaching force that understands these things with as much kind of nuance and complexity as possible.

他担心人们正在急于为一个复杂的问题采用简单的解决方案。

He's concerned that people are rushing to adopt simple solutions to a complex problem.

而且变化正在迅速发生。

And changes are coming fast.

全国各地的州立法者正在通过相关法律。

State legislators across the country are passing laws.

我们需要提高威斯康星州的阅读水平。

We need to improve reading in Wisconsin.

我们都同意这一点。

We are all in agreement on that.

第一个例证是教育记者历时五年对阅读教学进行调查的结果。

Exhibit one is the result of a five year investigation by an education reporter into reading instruction.

我呼吁重新关注识字教育以及我们在俄亥俄州教授阅读的方式。

I'm calling for a renewed focus on literacy and on the way we teach reading in the state of Ohio.

在下一期《Soul to Story》中，我会告诉你们一些因这个播客而通过的法律，以及我为何对其中一些法律感到担忧。

I'm going to tell you about some of the laws being passed in response to the podcast and why I'm kind of worried about some of those laws in the next episode of Soul to Story.

及时跟进我们的报道的最佳方式是在你的播客应用中关注本节目，并订阅我们的邮件列表。

The best way to keep up with our reporting is to follow the show in your podcast app and sign up for our email list.

节目说明中有一个链接，还有我们的网站链接 soldastory.org，你可以在那里找到文字稿、额外文章、阅读书单和播客讨论指南。

There's a link in the show notes and also a link to our website, soldastory.org, where you can find transcripts, additional articles, a reading list, and a podcast discussion guide.

本集由我与埃莉莎·贝林厄姆和克里斯托弗·皮克共同制作。

This episode was produced by me with Eliza Bellingham and Christopher Peek.

我们的编辑是克里斯·朱林。

Our editor was Chris Julin.

他还负责了混音、音效设计，并创作了部分音乐。

He also did mixing, sound design, and made some of the music.

本集的最终母带处理由亚历克斯·辛普森完成。

Final mastering of this episode was by Alex Simpson.

《Soul to Story》的主题音乐由Wonderly乐队的吉姆·布伦德伯格和本·兰兹伯格创作。

The Soul to Story theme music is by Jim Brundberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

我们的数字编辑是安迪·克鲁兹。

Our digital editor is Andy Cruz.

APM Reports的代理执行主编是汤姆·谢克，我们的执行主编是简·赫尔姆克。

The acting deputy managing editor of APM Reports is Tom Shek, and our executive editor is Jane Helmke.

本播客的支持来自霍利霍克基金会、橡树基金会以及温迪和史蒂芬·格尔。

Support for this podcast comes from the Hollyhock Foundation, the Oak Foundation, and Wendy and Stephen Gahl.