如何有效表达观点让人理解及应对日益增长的优越感心态

今天在《你该知道的事》节目中，你相信一见钟情吗？

Today on Something You Should Know, do you believe in love at first sight?

让我们来看看证据怎么说。

Let's look at what the evidence says.

然后，明确你的观点。

Then, making your point.

无论你何时发言，都应该有一个明确的观点。

Whenever you speak, you should have a point.

人们说话啰嗦或语无伦次的原因是，他们不清楚自己的观点是什么，而且常常把观点与话题、主题、内容，有时甚至与口号混淆。

And the reason people ramble or stumble over what they're trying to say is they don't know what their point is, and they often confuse their point for a topic, a theme, a subject, sometimes a catchphrase.

他们以为那就是他们的观点，但其实那并不是他们的观点。

They think that's their point, but actually that's not their point.

另外，有一条来自海豹突击队的绝佳建议，我想你会喜欢。

Also, a great piece of advice that comes from the Navy SEALs that I think you're gonna like.

如今，许多年轻人似乎有一种强烈的优越感。

And a lot of young people today seem to have a real sense of entitlement.

你知道吗，他们在一个公司或工作场所干两三个月，就说：我该得到晋升和加薪了。

You know, they work at a certain company or workplace for two or three months, and they say, you know, I deserve a promotion and a raise now.

老板会问：你为什么觉得你该得到这些？

Bosses say, well, why do you think you deserve it?

因为我已经来了两三个月了。

Well, because I've been coming here for two or three months.

我准时上班，也按你说的去做事。

I show up on time, and I do what you tell me to do.

所以，我应该得到奖励。

Therefore, I should be rewarded.

不。

No.

这些本来就是你应该做的。

That's what you're supposed to do.

以上所有内容，今天尽在《你应该知道的事》。

All this today on something you should know.

你应当知道的一些事，精彩的情报、全球顶尖专家的见解，以及你可以在生活中使用的实用建议。

Something you should know, fascinating intel, the world's top experts, and practical advice you can use in your life.

今天，由迈克·卡鲁瑟斯为你带来你应当知道的一些事。

Today, something you should know with Mike Carruthers.

做这个节目最令人欣慰的部分之一，就是我收到来自世界各地的许多友好邮件。

One of the most gratifying parts of doing this program is is all the nice emails I get from all over the world.

这真的太棒了。

It's it's just amazing.

最近，我不仅收到很多友好的邮件，还收到了一些很棒的Facebook评论。

And lately, I've been getting not only really nice emails, but also some, great Facebook comments as well.

我很感谢这些。

So I appreciate that.

如果你愿意给我发邮件，我总是非常乐意听到收听这个播客的人的声音。

And if you would like to email me, I always love hearing from people who listen to this podcast.

我的邮箱是 Mike@somethingyoushouldknow.net。

I'm at Mike at something you should know dot net.

mike@somethingyoushouldknow.net

Mike@somethingyoushouldknow.net.

嘿，你相信一见钟情吗？

Hey, do you believe in love at first sight?

你去问任何关系专家，他们通常都会认为一见钟情并不存在，理由是你不可能爱上一个你根本不了解的人。

You ask any relationship expert, and they tend to agree that love at first sight doesn't exist, citing the fact that, you know, it's impossible to fall in love with someone who you don't know.

可能是欲望。

Lust, maybe.

可能是迷恋。

Infatuation, possibly.

但真正的爱？

But true love?

不可能。

Not possible.

然而在调查中，有百分之四十的人表示他们确实经历过一见钟情。

And yet in surveys, forty percent of people say they have actually experienced love at first sight.

那是一种什么感觉？

What does it feel like?

人们描述说感到兴奋。

Well, people report feeling excitement.

很多人瞬间就产生了持久的依恋。

A lot of them felt an instant lasting attachment.

还有一些人感到一种完整或圆满。

And some of them felt a wholeness or completeness.

在许多情况下，这种爱确实持续了下来。

And in many cases, the love did last.

心理学家诺曼博士。

Psychologist Doctor.

研究这一现象并为此写过一本书的厄尔·诺曼博士认为，有确凿的证据证明一见钟情确实存在。

Earl Nauman, who studied this and wrote a book about it, believes that there is conclusive proof that love at first sight does exist.

如果百分之四十的人都声称经历过一见钟情，它怎么可能不存在呢？

If forty percent of all people claim to have experienced love at first sight, how could it not exist?

他说，那些声称一见钟情不存在的专家并没有真正的证据来支持他们的观点。

And he says the experts who claim love at first sight doesn't exist have no real evidence to back that up.

这值得思考，而且是你应该知道的事情。

Something to think about, and it's something you should know.

你曾经多少次听过一个人说话，无论是一对一的对话，还是那个人在对一群人讲话？

How many times have you listened to a person speak either one on one in a conversation or or maybe that person is speaking to a group?

当一切结束时，你有没有问过自己：他到底想表达什么？

And when it's all over, you asked yourself, what was the point of that?

这个人想表达的核心观点是什么？

What was this person's point?

事实上，对我们所有人来说，如果不加留意，我们可能会滔滔不绝地说个不停，却始终没有明确表达出观点，或者表达得不够清晰，以至于别人无法理解。

The fact is that for all of us, if we're not careful, we can talk and talk and talk and never make a point or never make our point clear enough that people get it.

仔细想想，如果你无法传达你的观点，那说话的意义何在？

And when you think about it, what's the point of talking if you don't make your point?

乔尔·施瓦茨伯格是一位公共演讲与沟通培训师，也是《直击要点：精炼你的信息，让你的话语更有分量》一书的作者。

Joel Schwartzberg is a public speaking and communications trainer and author of the book, Get to the Point, Sharpen Your Message and Make Your Words Matter.

他和我一起讨论如何确保人们理解你的观点，而这一点正是许多说话者所欠缺的。

And he joins me to discuss how to make sure people get your point, something that eludes an awful lot of us who speak.

嗨，乔尔，欢迎。

Hi, Joel, welcome.

谢谢你，迈克。

Thank you, Mike.

很高兴能来到这里。

It's a pleasure to be here.

我非常喜欢这个话题，因为做这个节目时，我不断在讲话和采访他人，有时会遇到一些人根本无法表达出重点，或者很难清晰表达，这时我就得认真帮助他们理清并传达他们的观点。

So, I love this topic because doing this program, I'm constantly talking and interviewing people and sometimes I get someone who really doesn't get to their point or they have trouble getting to their point, and that's when I really have to go to work and help them try to make their point.

因此，我非常认同帮助人们理解自己的观点并最终表达出来的理念。

And so I love this idea of helping people understand what their point is and and get to their point at all.

但为什么这个话题对你来说如此有趣呢？

But why is this interesting to you?

因为这个话题对我非常重要，我从事公众演讲培训已经超过十年了。

Well, this topic is very important for me because I've been training public speakers for over ten years.

我注意到的一件事是，即使我已经帮助他们提升了眼神交流、音量控制、站姿和手势技巧。

And one thing I've noticed is that even as I've made them stronger speakers with better eye contact and better volume and they stand right and gesture right.

当我问他们自己的观点是什么时，他们常常给出的并不是一个真正的观点。

When I ask them what their point is, often they come back to me with something that's not a point.

人们像你提到的那样啰嗦或语无伦次，原因就在于他们不清楚自己的观点是什么。

And the reason people ramble as you mentioned or stumble over what they're trying to say is they don't know what their point is.

他们常常把观点混淆为一个主题、一个议题，有时甚至是一个口号。

And they often confuse their point for a topic, a theme, a subject, sometimes a catch phrase.

他们以为那就是自己的观点。

They think that's their point.

但实际上，那并不是他们的观点。

But actually that's not their point.

观点是你能够论证、能够提出证据支持的东西。

The point is something that you can argue, make a case for that you can prove.

它是一个你希望传达的主张，让听众能够理解并据此采取行动。

It's a proposition you're trying to make so that your audience can digest it and then perform an action as a result.

如果你只有个标题，是做不到这一点的。

You can't do that if you only have a title.

你是不是觉得，如果你没有明确的观点，根本就不该开口讲话？

And is it your sense that if you don't have a point, you probably shouldn't you probably shouldn't be speaking in the first place?

没错。

Right.

你简直就是毫无重点，谁愿意变得毫无重点呢？

You're literally pointless, and who wants to be pointless?

但如果你曾经当过我所说的‘被迫听众’或‘人质听众’，听过某个喋喋不休的演讲者，那个人通常都没有明确的观点。

But if you've ever been a what I like to say is a captive audience or a hostage audience for a speaker who goes on and on and on, that person usually doesn't have a point.

我常常劝人们在公开演讲时不要紧张，从很多方面来说都是如此。

And I counsel people not to be nervous when they're public speaking in many ways.

但如果你没有明确的观点，说实话，你确实应该感到紧张，因为你根本不知道自己想向听众传达什么。

But if you don't have a point, the truth is you should be nervous because you don't know what you're trying to convey to your audience.

拥有一个明确观点的好处在于，你总能随时回到它上面。

And the beauty of having a point is it's something you can always go back to.

即使你跑题了或啰嗦了，偏离了主题，你也可以随时说：好吧，我们谈了很多事情，但我的核心观点是这个。

Even if you go off track or ramble, you leave the reservation, you can always say, alright, we talked about a number of things, but here's my point.

或者说，我想强调的是，X Y Z。

Or here's the thing, I believe that x y z.

因为归根结底，如果你成功传达了你的观点，你就成功了。

Because at the end of the day, if you successfully convey your point, you succeed.

如果你没有，你就失败了。

If you do not, you fail.

这就是关键所在。

That's the ball game.

所以你必须清楚自己的观点是什么。

So you have to know what your point is.

你是不是说，为了明确自己的观点，可以在前面加上‘我相信’这几个字？

Don't you say that in order to identify your point, you can put the words I believe that in front of it?

对。

Right.

所以，把你认为是你的观点的内容，直接在前面加上‘我认为’这几个字。

So take what you think is your point and simply put the words I believe that in front of it.

如果你此时还没有形成一个完整的、语法正确的句子，那你就需要重新组织一下表达。

If you do not have at that point a complete sentence, a grammatically correct sentence, then you sort of need to reformulate.

例如，你可以说‘我认为公共演讲’，或‘我认为政治’，或‘我认为社交媒体’——但这些都不是完整的想法，你需要回头重新构思，比如：‘我认为通过社交媒体，我们能够触达千禧一代’，或‘我认为我们的政治体系正处于糟糕的失修状态’。

So for example, you can say I believe that public speaking or I believe that politics or I believe that social media Because those aren't complete thoughts, you need to go back and come up with something, for example, that would say, I believe that through social media, we're going to be able to reach millennials, or I believe that our political system is in a woeful state of disrepair.

现在你提出的是一个有可行反驳空间的论点，而且你能够提供理由、逻辑或证据来支持它。

Now you're making an argument that has a feasible counterpoint, and it's something you could actually provide reasoning or logic or evidence for it to make a case.

归根结底，你的听众能从中获得一些有价值的东西。

And at the end of the day, your audience is gonna take something of value from it.

我可以有不止一个观点吗？

Can I have more than one point?

你可以有多个观点，但重要的是要把它们分隔开。

You can have more than one point, but it's important that they be segregated.

如果你试图把太多观点塞进一个句子里，就会产生我所说的‘分叉末端’效果。

If you try to jam too many points into one sentence, then it has the effect of what I call split ends.

然后你的想法就会相互竞争。

Then you have ideas competing with each other.

例如，如果你说这种方法将会非常成功、高效、有效且省时。

For example, if you say this approach is going to be very successful, productive, effective, and efficient.

你以为在同一个观点中加入多个想法是在帮自己，但实际上你却削弱了这个观点，因为你让听众去判断哪一个最重要，同时也稀释了每个观点的影响力，因为它们彼此冲突。

You think you're doing yourself a favor by adding different ideas to that same point, but actually you're hurting your point because now you're asking your audience to figure out which one of those is most important, but you're also diluting the impact of each of those points because they're fighting each other.

而大多数情况下，听众根本抓不住任何重点，因为他们面对的是四个要点。

And more often than not, the audience will take no point from that because they have four things.

想象一下，如果是一十二个要点，那他们就更不知道该吸收什么了。

Imagine if it was 12 things, then you know they wouldn't know what to take away from.

所以我通常建议人们提炼出一个核心观点。

So I generally counsel people to come up with one big idea.

这种方法将使我们更加高效。

This approach will make us more efficient.

那么，其余的时间你用什么来填充呢？

So then what do you fill up the rest of the time with?

证据呢？

Evidence?

对。

Right.

证据。

Evidence.

然后你来展开这个观点。

Then you develop that point.

但归根结底，听众不会记住你的技巧、例子或说明太多内容。

But at the end of the day, the audience is not gonna leave so much with your tactics, with your examples, with your illustrations.

听众通常只记得一两个，最多三个要点。

Audiences generally remember one or two or at most three things.

那么，你希望他们记住的核心观点是什么？

So what's the big idea you want to leave them with?

这就是你需要明确的。

That's what you have to identify.

所以，即使你在论证并使用证据和案例研究，最终你还是希望他们记住这一个想法。

So even though you're making the case, you're using evidence, using case studies, at the end of the day, you want them to leave with this one thought.

那么，当我表达观点时，我是应该先提出观点再提供证据支持，还是先给出证据，然后说‘因此’，这就是我的观点？

So when I make my point, do I first make my point and then support the evidence, or do I give you the evidence and then say, and therefore, and here's my point.

公开演讲中没有剧透，只有电影里才有。

There are no spoilers in public speaking, only in films.

所以，你要尽可能多地表达这个观点。

So you wanna say that point as much as possible.

但让我们来看看听众最能记住演讲的哪些部分。

But let's look at what parts of a speech an audience most remembers.

首先是开头，最后是结尾，尤其是结尾部分。

The first part and the last part, and particularly the last part.

我经常说的一点是，你可以反复表达这个观点，想说多少次都行。

And something I say all the time is you can say that point as many times as you want.

没有人会从一场公开演讲中走出来，说：‘这场演讲很棒，但演讲者重复观点太多了。’

No one comes away from a public speech saying, you know, it's a great speech, but the speaker made his or her point way too often.

没人会这么说，因为这个观点是价值的一部分。

Nobody says that because the point is a piece of the value.

这是你送给观众的礼物。

That's the gift you're giving to your audience.

所以，迈克，回答你的问题，我总是会先提出它。

So to answer your question, Mike, I would always lead with it.

我总是建议我的演讲者直接说明他们是谁、他们的观点是什么，以及为什么这个观点相关。

Something I always counsel my speakers is to come right down and say who they are, what their point is, and why that point is relevant.

但这并不意味着你不能以一个笑话、一个故事、今天早上在收音机里听到的内容，或者你孩子做的傻事开始。

Now that doesn't mean you can't begin with a joke or a story or something you heard on the radio this morning or something silly your kid did.

那只是一个破冰手段。

That's an icebreaker.

但你要明白，那并不是你传达观点时的工作内容。

But know that that is not part of your job in delivering the point.

那是在拖延你的观点，但某种程度上是在唤醒你的观众。

That's delaying your point, but it's sort of waking your audience up.

所以，只有当你明确说出这个观点，以及它最强大、最有价值的版本时，你才算真正完成了你的工作。

So you're not really doing your job until you're saying explicitly that point and whatever the strongest and highest value version of it is.

那时你才在做你最重要的工作。

That's when you're doing your number one job.

那时你才在传递这个观点。

That's when you're making the delivery of that point.

就像你所说的，没人会抱怨你把观点讲得太频繁，因为我们常常听完后心想：‘这到底讲的是啥？’

Well, like what you said that, you know, no one ever complains that he made his point too much because we often walk away going, what the hell?

到底是什么

What what was

关于什么？

that about?

重点是什么？

What was the point?

所以我们有时会埋没这个观点，你知道，如今讲故事在公众演讲中非常重要。

So And sometimes we bury the point, you know, like storytelling is a big deal nowadays in public speaking.

讲个故事。

Tell a story.

讲个故事。

Tell a story.

越个人化越好。

The more personal, the better.

但我们往往忽略并未能强调的是，故事只是传递观点的载体。

But what we fail to mention and fail to reinforce is that the story is a vehicle through which a point travels.

所以，如果你只是开始讲故事并结束故事，那你依然没有完成你的任务。

So you haven't again done your job if you begin the story and end the story.

只有当你明确说‘这个故事说明了x y z’时，你的任务才真正开始。

Your job doesn't begin until you say, this story illustrates how x y z.

这个故事反映了我为什么相信x y z。

This story is a reflection of why I believe that x y z.

当你点明这一点时，你才真正完成了你的任务，而不是在仅仅讲述故事的时候。

That is the point at which you're doing your job, not at the point during which you're merely sharing the story.

但有时候，这个故事的目的难道不应该不言而喻吗？也就是说，如果故事讲得好，观点自然就明确了。

But shouldn't sometimes that be self evident that the purpose of this story was to ex you know, that that when if the story is well told, the point is made.

嗯，希望观点能被传达出来。

Well, hopefully, the point is made.

但想想这种负担。

But think of the burden.

当你讲一个故事，并期望那个观点不言自明时，你实际上是把理解、消化和运用这个观点的负担推给了听众。

So when you tell a story and you expect that point to be self evident, you're putting the burden of understanding, digesting, and making use of that point on your audience.

这有点像一场戏剧。

It's sort of like a play.

是的。

Yeah.

戏剧应该具有足够的细腻之处，让你潜移默化地领会其中的含义。

A play should be nuanced in such a way that you sort of get the point.

但在公开演讲中，你的目标不是娱乐，也不是引发好奇。

But in a public speech, your goal is not to entertain, not to intrigue.

归根结底，目的是确保这个观点被传达出去。

At the end of the day, it's to make sure that point is delivered.

所以我常问我的客户：你为什么要讲这个故事？难道要靠运气让对方接收到你的观点吗？

So my question to my clients is often, why would you tell that story or leave it to chance that they've received your point?

我们知道这很重要，因为衡量你在公开演讲中是否成功的唯一方法就是：

And we know this is important because there's only one way to know if you've been successful in a public speech.

去问观众中的某个人：你觉得我的观点是什么？

And that is to go to someone in the audience and say, what do you think my point was?

或者直接说：我的观点是这个，你有效接收到了吗？

Or my point was this, did you effectively receive it?

那么问题来了，你如何保证达到这个结果？

So the question is how are you gonna guarantee that result?

你保证这一点的方法就是明确地表达出来。

The way you guarantee it is by being very explicit about it.

这就是我的观点。

This is my point.

这就是我的信念。

This is what I believe.

如果你今天只能带走一个想法，那应该是这个：x y z。

If there's one thought you're going to leave with today, it should be this, x y z.

要表达得明确些。

Make it explicit.

我们并不总是表达得明确。

We don't always make it explicit.

有时我们会隐藏它、保留它，或者想以一种有趣的方式提出它，但这样做却避开了最直接、最明确且最容易被接受的方式。

Sometimes we hide it, we save it, or we want to propose it in an interesting way, but in doing so, we avoid the most explicit, direct, and easily accepted way.

我正在与乔尔·施瓦茨伯格交谈。

I am speaking with Joel Schwartzberg.

他是一位沟通培训师，著有《直击要点：精炼你的表达，让言辞更有分量》一书。

He is a communications trainer and author of the book, Get to the Point, Sharpen Your Message, and Make Your Words Matter.

我和我妻子刚注册了HelloFresh，它彻底改变了我们家的饮食方式。

My wife and I just signed up for HelloFresh, and it has changed the way we eat in our house.

让我告诉你我们刚开始时发生了什么。

Let me tell you what happened when we got started.

一个装着几餐所需所有食材的盒子送到了我家门口。

This box got delivered to my front door with all the ingredients for several meals.

我只需要选一道菜，然后开始做就行了。

All I did was pick a meal and get started.

我选了撒上菲达奶酪碎的香辣西南风味鸡肉配彩椒。

I picked sizzling southwestern chicken with bell peppers and feta crumble.

听起来可能有点吓人，但食谱卡片非常容易遵循。

Now that may sound daunting, but the recipe card was easy to follow.

我切了一些新鲜漂亮的蔬菜，烤了鸡肉，切了香草，把所有材料组合在一起，三十分钟后，我就做出了一顿美味的餐厅级餐食，大家都很喜欢，每餐大约只花了10美元。

I chopped some beautiful fresh produce, roasted the chicken, chopped the herbs, put it all together, and thirty minutes later I had a delicious restaurant quality meal everyone loved, all for about $10 a meal.

还有一件事你应该知道：HelloFresh 让一切都变得简单便捷。

And here's something you should know: HelloFresh makes everything simple and convenient.

你可以选择配送日期，所有食材都已预先称量好，并且有三种计划可选：经典版、素食版或家庭版。

You choose the delivery date, all the ingredients come pre measured, and there are three plans to choose from: the classic, vegetarian, or family plan.

这些是高品质、营养丰富的餐食，味道绝佳。

These are really high quality nutritious meals that taste amazing.

你一定要试试HelloFresh。

You have got to try HelloFresh.

它会改变你的饮食方式，而且首周可优惠30美元。

It'll change the way you eat and you get $30 off your first week.

请前往hellofresh.com并使用促销码something30。

Just go to hellofresh.com and use the promo code something30.

就是hellofresh.com，促销码something30，首周立减30美元。

That's hellofresh.com Promo code something 30 for $30 off your first week.

所以，乔尔，你经常听到人们谈论如何正确地做演示，说的方法是：先告诉他们你要讲什么，然后讲给他们听，最后再总结一遍你讲了什么。

So, Joel, you often hear people who talk about making presentations in the right way to communicate that the way to do it is tell them what you're gonna tell them, tell them, and then tell them what you told them.

你在这里说的，是不是就是这种意思？

Is that kind of what you're saying here?

这个框架很好。

That framework is good.

我只是不喜欢那些东西干扰了最重要的任务，而最重要的任务其实很简单，那就是清晰地传达你的观点。

I just don't like those things to get in the way of the number one job, which is much simpler, which is really just this, deliver your point.

所以当你做预告、展开内容、重复你刚才说过的话时，这没问题，但我更倾向于直接切入重点。

So when you preview something, you get into something, you tell them what you just said, that's fine, but I rather go right to the heart of the matter.

你的观点是什么？

What is your point?

你表达得够有力吗？

Did you make it strong?

你是不是塞了太多想法进去？

Did you crowd too many ideas in it?

你用了那些空洞的形容词吗？

Did you use badjectives?

‘空洞形容词’指的是像‘非常好’、‘太棒了’、‘很棒’这类其实什么都没说的词。

Badjectives is a word like very good or fantastic or great that's not really saying anything.

最后，你有没有以这个观点收尾？

And then did you end with that point?

所以，一场精彩的演讲还有许多其他的结构、部分和要素。

So there are lots of other constructions and parts and elements of a great speech.

但如果你不清楚自己的观点，或者没能有效传达你的具体观点，那么所有这些都无足轻重。

But if you don't know your point and are not successfully conveying your specific point, then all that stuff doesn't matter.

因为最终，你并不希望听众听完你的演讲后，只记得‘这位演讲者太幽默了’，或‘她知识渊博’、‘魅力十足’、‘令人难忘’。

Because at the end of the day, you don't want to come away someone to come away from your speech thinking, oh, that speaker, she was hysterical or she is so knowledgeable or so charismatic, so memorable.

因为你的目标并不是让自己变得令人难忘。

Because that's not your goal, to make you memorable.

你的目标更像是一位信使，比如自行车信使。

Your goal is not unlike a messenger, you know, bicycle messenger.

你的目标是把你的观点传递给听众，让他们带走并从中获得价值。

Your goal is to take this thing, which is your point, and to convey that to the audience so they can leave with it and take value from it.

你觉得这种原则也适用于一对一的沟通吗？

Do you think this translates into one on one communication as well?

我认为它适用于所有沟通形式，因为关键问题是：你什么时候不需要表达一个观点呢？

I think it translates into all communication because the question is, when do you ever need to make a point?

这始终如此。

And that's constantly.

所以这可以是一封邮件。

So that can be an email.

这也可以体现在对下属的绩效评估中。

That can be in a a review of your direct reports.

这当然也适用于求职面试。

That can be certainly in a job interview.

它也可能出现在传统的演讲场合。

It could be in a classic speech setting.

它甚至可能发生在你和岳母的对话中。

It could be to your mother-in-law.

在所有这些情况下，都有一个需要表达的观点。

In all these cases, there's a point to be made.

你知道这个观点是什么吗？你表达得足够有力吗？

Do you know what it is, and have you made it strongly enough?

有人曾经跟我统计过，说在会议上，介绍演讲者的人其实并没有在表达一个观点。

Someone once counted this to me and said, well, at a conference, the person introducing a speaker, that person is not really making a point.

但实际上，理想情况下，那个人是在表达一个观点。

But in fact, ideally, that person is making a point.

那个人是在向听众说明，为什么演讲者的观点对听众相关，他或她希望听众能从中获得什么、学到什么。

That person is expressing to the audience why the speaker's point is relevant to that audience, what he hopes or she hopes they will take away from or learn from that presentation.

所以，如果我们坐下来认真思考，并运用‘我相信’这个测试，就会发现总有一个观点需要表达——‘我相信’测试是第一步。

So there's always a point to be made if we sit down and really think about it and apply that I believe test that I believe test is the first step.

你刚才说，从来没有人会指责某人在演讲中表达观点太频繁。

You know what you said about nobody ever nobody ever accuses somebody of making their point too often in a speech.

在演讲中这可能是对的，但我确实经历过一些对话，在那些对话中，我心想：好吧。

That's probably true in a speech, but but I've been in conversations with people where I okay.

我明白了。

I get it.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know?

我明白了。

I get it.

停一下。

Stop.

请停一下。

Please stop.

你已经表达清楚了。

You've made your point.

这实际上是一个关键问题。

Then that's actually a critical issue.

原因如下：不仅仅是因为它令人厌烦，而且当你已经表达清楚观点后还在继续说，你之后说的每一句话都会削弱你的观点。

And here's the reason, not just because it's annoying, but because when you've made your point and you're still talking, everything you say after it is going to dilute your point.

记住，听众只会记住你最后说的内容。

Cause remember audiences remember the last thing you say.

所以，你希望你的观点表达尽可能接近你传达给对方的最后内容，然后就像你会同意的那样，迈克，就该在那里停住。

So you wanna make the delivery of your point close to the very last thing you convey to someone else and then you need to, as you would agree Mike, would stop there.

因为你不断指出这一点，只会伤害你自己。

Cause you're only hurting yourself by continually pointing it out.

如果一个人反复说同一件事，很可能是因为他存在某种不安全感，应该通过公共演讲教练或心理专业人士来解决。

If someone is saying the same thing over and over and over again, there's probably some insecurity that that person should address either with a public speaking coach or a psychological professional.

但你之前说过，你也应该在开头就表达你的观点。

But you said before that you should deliver your point at the beginning too.

所以你是说，既要放在开头，也要放在结尾吗？

So are you saying do it both at the beginning and at the end?

是的。

Yes.

既要放在开头，而且一般来说，我不太担心人们说得太多。

Do the beginning and generally, I don't worry about people saying it too often.

如果一个人在两分钟内说了18遍，那确实会让人厌烦。

If someone is saying it 18 times in a two minute space, that can get annoying.

但我发现这种情况并不常见。

But I don't find that to be the case too often.

我更担心的不是人们重复自己的观点太多次。

And what I'm more worried about, I'm not worried about people saying their point too many times.

我担心的是人们说完自己的观点后，还继续谈论其他事情，或者东拉西扯，说‘别忘了这个’‘别忘了那个’。

I'm worried about people saying their point and then still talking about other things or meandering because they said, oh, and don't forget about this and don't forget about this.

因为这些内容会分散对核心观点的注意力。

Because those things compete against the point.

所以回答你的问题，最好的做法是肯定在开头和结尾都明确表达你的观点。

So to answer your question, the best place is to put your point certainly at the beginning, certainly at the end.

在整个演讲过程中，适时提及这些证据作为提醒，有助于说明为什么我相信这一点，或印证我的主张是正确的。

And throughout, it's helpful to say this piece of evidence as a reminder shows why I believe that or illustrates my proposition that this is true.

听起来，如果简化到这种程度，这似乎是一场很枯燥的演讲。

It almost sounds like when you strip it down to that, that that that's a pretty dull speech.

让演讲变得有趣的是，它有一个具有价值的核心观点，而你的任务就是把这份价值传递给听众。

What makes an interesting speech is that it has a point that has a piece of value, And your job is to get that value to an audience.

有时候人们会说，嗯，这演讲太无聊了。

You know, sometimes people say, well, it's a dull speech.

哦，我应该从一个笑话开始，或者讲个故事，或者把自己头发点着了。

Oh, I should start with a joke or I should tell this story or I should set my hair on fire.

你知道，这些做法当然会让你更有趣，但并不会帮助你推进你的观点。

You know, those things will certainly make you more interesting, but it won't help propel your point.

当我观察观众时，关键的价值在于观众是会感到无聊还是感兴趣。

When I look at audiences, you know, and the crucial value is is an audience gonna be bored or interested.

如果你希望他们感兴趣，那你最不该做的就是让他们感到无聊。

And if you want them to be interested, you know, you the last thing you do is want them to be bored.

他们可能不同意，但至少他们仍然会投入其中。

They could disagree, but at least they would still be engaged.

所以，你要做的就是确保他们感兴趣，那就是拥有一个有力且有价值的观点。

So the thing you wanna do to make sure they're interested is to have a strong and valuable point.

只要你这么做，并且在提出这个论点，你就总会被认为是相关的，因为这才是有价值的部分。

And as long as you do and are making that argument, you should always be perceived as relevant because that's the piece of value.

其他的一切都是锦上添花或为这个观点提供支持。

Everything else is icing or supporting that point.

所以，当我对演讲感到无聊或不投入时，几乎总是因为演讲者不清楚自己的观点，或者没有将其打磨成对我真正有价值的内容，他们需要重新构思，深入挖掘。

So when I am bored by speeches and when I am unengaged, it's almost always because they don't know what their point is or they haven't sharpened it to something of true value to me, and they needed to reimagine it to dig a little deeper.

但你的方法似乎会让每场演讲都缩短到三分钟左右，因为你不想用一堆干扰信息淹没核心观点。

It seems though that your way would make every speech about three minutes long, that that that you don't wanna crowd it with a bunch of other stuff that gets in the way of the point.

所以你把所有无关的东西都删掉，只留下核心观点，然后就结束了。

So you strip that all away, and you make your point and and and you're done.

我们在测试中用的一个方法是确保观点不是陈词滥调，也不是过于简短。

One of the things that we use in the test is to make sure it's not a truism or something too short.

比如，有人想说社交媒体很棒，或者要成为优秀的公众演讲者，你需要自信。

So say someone wanted to say social media is great, or to be a great public speaker, you need confidence.

但这些观点你需要加以拓展，让你的演讲能撑满十分钟、十五分钟或七分钟。

Well, those things you need to make sure you can develop it so that you're giving a speech that meets the ten minutes or the fifteen minutes or the seven minutes.

所以，是的，我只能用三十秒讲讲为什么社交媒体很棒。

So, yeah, I can only talk for thirty seconds about why social media is great.

但我可以花更长时间探讨社交媒体如何影响特定受众，或者不同州如何因不同的立法优先事项而推动更大的社会运动。

But I could talk a lot more on the subject of how social media affects particular audiences or how different states have different legislative priorities that feed up into a larger social movement.

所以，如果你觉得自己有个观点，但这个演讲会非常简短，不妨问问自己为什么。

So often if you feel like you have a point, but it's going to be a very short presentation, ask yourself why.

因为这会引发其他一系列的东西。

Well, because it will trigger all these other things.

而对这个‘为什么’问题的回答，通常会引导出一个更宏大、更深入、更复杂的演讲。

And the answer to that question why will often lead to a larger and more developed and more sophisticated speech.

所以我们有时会讲得很短，是因为我们还没有把观点充分展开，不足以提供好的例子或案例研究。

So the reason we sometimes go short is because we haven't developed our point further along enough to enable us to give good examples or good case studies.

也有些演讲者，我相信大家都听过，他们确实表达了观点。

There are also speakers, and I'm sure everybody's heard them, who who do make their point.

他们把观点表达得非常清楚，但演讲却枯燥乏味，因为一场出色的演讲不仅仅是表达观点。

They make their point quite clearly, but the speech is dull as dirt and and and because there's more to giving a good speech than just making your point.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

完全正确。

Absolutely.

但我的观点是，即使你可能是世界上最富有魅力的演讲者，如果你没有一个明确的观点，你就没有尽到自己的职责。

But my case, the case I'm trying to make is you could be the most charismatic presenter in the world, but if you don't have a point, you're not doing your job.

你的职责不是让别人喜欢你。

Your job is not to make people love you.

你的目标是传递那个有价值的想法。

Your point is to deliver that valuable idea.

现在，演讲确实非常重要，它是我工作坊培训的一部分，也是书中的一部分。

Now presentation is very, important and it's part of my workshop training and it's part of the book.

你希望展现出权威感。

You want to come across with authority.

你希望展现出自信。

You want to come across with confidence.

这种感觉是如何传达的呢？

How is that conveyed?

这是通过音量来传达的。

That's conveyed with volume.

这通过以句号结尾来传达。

That's conveyed through ending with periods.

这通过非持续性的手势来传达，这些手势旨在强调某个词的意义。

That's conveyed through gestures that are not constant so that they mean something to emphasize a word.

但在我的工作坊中，我始终希望人们带走的两点之一是：几乎每个人都能提高音量。

But the two things I always want people to leave within my workshops in terms of presentation, one is everybody can increase their volume, just about everybody.

当你提高音量时，这不仅仅是为了让人能听清你的话。

And when you increase your volume, that's not just about audibility, people being able to hear you.

但仅靠音量本身，就能传达你所提到的那些特质：权威性、可信度和自信。

But volume alone conveys all those things you were talking about, authority, credibility, confidence.

有时如果我们告诉某人：‘你需要更自信一些。’

Sometimes if we ask someone, well, you need to be more confident.

那么对方会问：‘我该怎么做？’

Well, how do I do that?

但如果你直接让某人把声音放大，这就能传达出自信。

But if you ask someone to just be louder, that will convey confidence.

另一部分是停顿。

And the other part is pausing.

如果你接受停顿，尤其是用它来替代‘啊’、‘那么’这类填充词，实际上是在帮自己大忙，因为观众会因这些停顿而更加投入，同时停顿也能放慢你的语速，让你有足够的时间在开口前精准地组织思路。

If you embrace pausing, especially as a replacement for things like ah and and so, you're actually doing yourself a great favor because audiences are become really engaged by that pausing, but also pausing slows you down and allows you to create thoughts with great precision because you're putting your mind way ahead of your mouth.

通常我们的嘴巴跑在了思维前面，导致我们说话时没有给自己时间去形成这些想法。

Often our mouths are way ahead of our minds so that we're speaking and we're not giving ourselves time to formulate those thoughts.

所以我们需要放慢节奏，加入停顿，以便更精准地表达。

So we need to slow it down, inject pauses so we can speak with precision.

所有这些都会带来自信。

And all those things will lead to confidence.

是的，我们希望演讲者自信、有权威感，但当然，我甚至会说，比这些都更重要的是，演讲者要有明确的观点，并有力地传达出来。

Yes, we want speakers who are confident, we want speakers who are authoritative, but certainly, and I would even suggest more important than any of that, speakers who have points and convey them with strength.

嗯，我觉得你已经说清楚了。

Well, I I think you made your point.

你说得对。

And you're right.

我觉得人们说话时常常过于关注和分心于其他事情，以至于无法清晰地表达观点。

I think it's so common for people to when they talk to get so concerned and distracted by all the other things that they fail to make the point.

如果你无法表达你的观点，那还有什么意义呢？

And if you don't make your point, what's the point?

乔尔·施瓦茨伯格是我的嘉宾。

Joel Schwartzberg has been my guest.

他是一位沟通培训师，著有《直击要点：精炼你的表达，让言辞更有分量》一书。

He is a communications trainer and author of the book, Get to the Point, Sharpen Your Message and Make Your Words Matter.

你可以在本集的节目说明中找到他在亚马逊上的书籍链接。

You'll find a link to his book on Amazon in the show notes for this episode.

谢谢你，乔尔。

Thank you, Joel.

谢谢你，迈克。

Thank you, Mike.

我期待听到它。

I look forward to hearing it.

我敢肯定你听过这样的抱怨：如今的孩子和年轻人太自我中心了，总觉得世界亏欠他们，不明白现实世界是如何运作的。

I'm sure you've heard the complaint that today's kids and young adults are too entitled, that they feel the world owes them something, and they they don't understand how the real world works.

当然，这并不适用于今天所有的孩子和年轻人。

Now this obviously isn't true for all kids today and all young adults today.

我认识很多并不符合这种描述的人。

I know plenty who don't fit this description.

但对于许多人来说，确实存在一种 entitlement 的心态，认为成就并不那么重要。

But for many, there is this sense of entitlement that achievement isn't so important.

只要他们出现了，就应该得到奖励。

As long as they show up, they should be rewarded.

我们一路看着这种情况逐渐发展起来。

And and we've seen this growing up.

我的意思是，现在的孩子只要加入球队就能拿到奖杯，而一两代人之前，只有球队赢得冠军或者你是优胜者时才能获得奖杯。

I mean, kids today get a trophy just for being on the team, whereas a generation or two ago, you only got a trophy if your team won the championship or if you were a winner.

问题是，当孩子们长大成人步入现实世界时，仅仅出现并加入团队已经没什么意义了。

The problem is that when kids go out in the real world as young adults, just showing up and being on the team doesn't mean much.

成就才重要。

Achievement does.

那么这里到底发生了什么？

So what's going on here?

医生。

Doctor.

迈克尔·韦特是一位临床心理学家，也是《赢得它！》一书的作者。

Michael Wetter is a clinical psychologist and author of the book, Earn It!

当你的孩子需要纠正特权心态时该怎么做。

To Do When Your Kid Needs an Entitlement Intervention.

欢迎你，迈克尔。

Welcome, Michael.

谢谢。

Thank you.

很高兴能来这里。

Great to be here.

所以，我猜测，当代年轻人这种特权心态的问题，并不是他们本身有什么根本性的缺陷。

So, guess is that this entitlement problem in the more recent generations is not something inherently wrong with these people.

这更可能与他们的教养方式有关。

It's probably more to do with how they were raised, with their parenting.

对吗？

Yes?

如果你仔细观察一下，就会发现，在很多情况下，即使是小孩子，也是他们主导着整个家庭。

If you take a look around, you start to see that in many cases, even with young kids, the kids are the ones who run the household.

父母们总是追着孩子跑，几乎是在努力安抚孩子，以免他们情绪崩溃。

And you see the parents scrambling after the kids and and almost, you know, trying to appease the children so that they don't freak out.

以免他们发脾气。

They don't have a tantrum.

他们必须时刻保持开心。

They're happy all the time.

那你觉得呢？

Well guess what?

这会在未来十五年、二十五年后转化为某种态度。

That's gonna translate to a certain attitude later in life, fifteen years from now, twenty five years from now.

因此，我们现在可能已经开始看到问题的出现。

And so we may see the emergence of a problem now.

我们真正将看到的，是二三十年后的一个大问题。

What we're really gonna see is a big problem twenty, thirty years from now.

我认为这非常普遍。

And I think that's very prevalent.

我认为，到目前为止，这种情况可能占了大多数，而不是少数。

I do think that's that's probably more of a majority than a minority at this point in time.

我们已经听到一些大学招生人员说，孩子们进入大学时完全毫无准备，父母常常陪他们一起来填写各种表格，因为孩子根本不知道该怎么做。

Well, we're already hearing those stories of college admissions people saying that kids come to college completely unprepared and that mom and dad often come with them to fill out the the paperwork because the kid just doesn't know what to do.

而且，在大学申请文书方面，往往是父母代笔；更甚者，有些情况下，父母还会花钱请人替孩子写作文。

And and, you know, for the college admission essays, it's the parents writing them Or more to the point in some cases, it's the parents hiring somebody to write an essay for the child.

因此，孩子们不仅毫无准备，还学会了‘会有人替他们做事’的教训。

And so not only do children come unprepared, but they learn the lesson that somebody will do the work for them.