奥利维亚·罗德里戈 - The Cure

你正在收听的是《歌曲拆解》节目，在这里，音乐人们会逐段拆解自己的歌曲，讲述它们是如何创作出来的。

You're listening to song exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made.

我是里希凯什·希尔维。

I'm Rishikesh Hirway.

本期节目包含不雅用语。

This episode contains explicit language.

奥利维亚·罗德里戈是一位获得格莱美奖的歌手兼词曲作者。

Olivia Rodrigo is a Grammy winning singer and songwriter.

2026年6月，她发行了第三张专辑《你看起来挺难过的，对于一个如此恋爱中的女孩》。

In June 2026, she released her third album, You Seem Pretty Sad for a Girl So in Love.

专辑发行当天，就打破了Spotify和亚马逊音乐上的流媒体播放记录，并在公告牌排行榜上首周登顶。

The day it came out, it broke streaming records on Spotify and Amazon Music, and it debuted at number one on the Billboard Charts.

我在我的录音室里采访了奥利维亚，还去了她的长期制作人兼联合创作人丹·尼格罗的录音室拜访他。

I talked to Olivia here in my studio, and I also visited her longtime producer and co writer, Dan Nigro, at his studio.

丹·尼格罗在2025年获得了格莱美年度制作人奖，部分原因就是他与奥利维亚·罗德里戈的合作。

Dan Nigro won the Grammy for producer of the year in 2025, in part for his work with Olivia Rodrigo.

在这一集里，他们俩给我讲了制作奥利维亚的歌曲《The Cure》的故事，从最初的语音备忘录一直到最终版本。

And for this episode, the two of them told me the story of making Olivia's song The Cure from the original voice memo to the final version.

我是奥利维亚·罗德里戈。

My name is Olivia Rodrigo.

我是丹·尼格罗。

And my name is Dan Nigro.

我们开始合作的时候，我想我大概才16或17岁，现在想想真不可思议，因为我现在已经23岁了。

We started working together, I think I must have been 16 or 17, which is crazy because I'm 23 now.

所以他几乎见证了我整个成年时期，还有我青少年时期的大部分时光。

So he's known me my entire adult life and, you know, lots of my teenage life.

我发行的每一首歌都是我们俩一起合作的。

We've collaborated on every song that I've ever put out.

在开始写歌之前，你们有没有什么大的构想或者想法？

Were there any kind of big picture concepts or intentions that you had before you started writing?

我一开始打算写这张专辑，我就知道我想把它做成关于浪漫爱情，而且是更积极的那种感觉。

I set out to write this album, and I knew that I wanted to make it about romantic love in more of a positive sense.

我觉得我前两张专辑都是关于心碎和焦虑的，还有那些你十几岁时会有的所有情绪。

I think my last two records were heartbroken and angsty and all the feelings that you feel when you're a teenager.

我只是想换个方向，试着写一些情歌。

And I just sort of wanted to stretch a muscle and try to write love songs.

我觉得这对创作歌手来说挺难的。

And it's a hard thing to do as a songwriter, I think.

很多时候，写一首关于你在感情中多么幸福的歌，听起来会让人觉得炫耀、奇怪或者空洞。

Oftentimes, writing a song about how happy in a relationship you are just come across as like braggy or weird or vapid.

所以我想挑战一下自己，弄清楚情歌对我来说意味着什么，以及从我嘴里唱出来会是什么样子。

And so I I kinda wanted to challenge myself to to figure out what a love song meant to me and what it sounded like coming out of my mouth.

所以我们知道我们想这么做，我知道我想稍微改变一下，因为我最喜欢的那些情歌其实都很悲伤。

And so we knew we wanted to do that, I knew that I wanted to kind of twist it a little bit because I knew all of my favorite love songs were really sad.

你知道吗？

You know?

比如The Cure的《Love Song》，Bright Eyes的《First Day of My Life》，还有Lana Del Rey的《Video Games》。

Like like Love Song by The Cure, First Day of My Life by Bright Eyes, or Video Games by Lana Del Rey.

这些歌虽然都是关于所谓的幸福和爱情，但其实都挺让人心碎的，而正是这种心碎的感觉让它们让人难忘，也特别能打动人心。

These are all songs that are about quote unquote being happy and love, but they're kind of devastating, and that's what makes them stick with you and what pulls on your heartstrings so much.

我觉得在一段成熟的关系里，感情是多方面的、有层次的，你知道，不是每天都阳光灿烂、玫瑰盛开，觉得自己是世界上最幸福的人。

I think when you're in a relationship, like a mature sort of relationship, it's like so multifaceted and layered and you know, not every day is like, oh, sunshine and roses, I'm the happiest person in the world.

它其实很复杂。

It's like complex.

我也不知道。

And I don't know.

我觉得对艺术家来说，尝试去捕捉这种复杂性是个挺有趣的挑战。

I think that's a a fun challenge as an artist to try to capture that complexity.

你觉得这首歌的故事是从哪里开始的？

Where do you think the story of writing this song first starts?

我其实记得很清楚，当时在我朋友的吉普车里。

I actually remember vividly being in my friend's Jeep.

我坐在副驾驶，跟他聊天，我就说，你知道，我在做这张专辑，我恋爱了，我很爱这个人。

And I was sitting in the passenger seat and I was talking to him and I was just like, you know, I'm making this record and I'm in love and I love this person.

而且我大部分时间都特别难受。

And I'm just like so miserable so much of the time.

我非常不开心。

I'm like very unhappy.

我就想，不知道为什么，我就是想写情歌。

And I was like, I don't know why I can't like I I just wanna write love songs.

我记得他明确告诉我，他说，你得写你真实的感受。

And I remember him expressly telling me, he's like, you have to write about how you're actually feeling.

你不能假装用一种特定的方式去写。

You can't pretend to write a certain way.

你不能按照你以为自己应该有的感觉去写。

You can't write in the way that you think you're supposed to feel.

你得对自己诚实，这就是音乐的美妙之处。

Like, you have to be honest with yourself, and that's what's great about music.

而且，你只需要去挖掘那种感受。

And, like, you just have to tap into that.

这是一种天赋。

It's a gift.

然后我就想，好吧。

And I was like, okay.

当然，没问题。

Like, sure.

你能多讲讲那种同时存在的感觉吗？就是你知道自己爱上了这个人，但同时你又很不开心。

Could you tell me more about those simultaneous feelings of knowing that, oh, I'm in love with this person, but also I'm so unhappy.

是因为恋爱让你不开心吗？

Was it because of being in love that you were unhappy?

就是说，你爱得越深，就越痛苦，还是说这两件事其实是两条平行的河流，互不相干？

Like, I'm so in love, I'm miserable, or were these just two separate rivers running in parallel?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我是说，我觉得恋爱真的能像一面镜子，照出你以前可能一直沉睡的那部分自己。

I mean, I think I think falling in love can really, like, hold a mirror to you and show you parts of yourself that maybe before were kind of dormant.

有时候你爱着一个人，但并不快乐，因为有些地方不对劲，所以才会那么难过。

And sometimes you're in love and it's not happy because there's something that's not working, and then that's why you're so sad.

所以那次对话之后，我记得自己好像变得更有勇气了。

And so I remember kind of feeling emboldened after that conversation.

大概过了几天，我写了最初的初稿。

I think a few days later, I wrote the initial sort of first draft.

我吉他弹得不太好。

I'm not great at guitar.

我好像一直处于学习的状态。

I'm like still sort of in a permanent state of learning.

但当时我想弹一个和弦，结果弹错了。

But I was trying to play a chord and I played it wrong.

我的手指放错了位置，但听起来反而很酷。

I like messed up where my fingers were, but it actually just sounded cool.

我当时就想，哇，这太棒了。

And I was like, oh, that's great.

作为新手的一个好处就是，有时候会意外发现一些很棒的东西。

A wonderful thing about being a novice is something make a happy accident.

于是我开始弹一个我喜欢的和弦进行。

So I started playing a chord progression that I like.

我当时就坐在沙发上。

I was just sitting on my couch.

那是一个深夜，我正全身心投入在专辑创作中。

It was like late at night and I I was deep in album mode.

写歌的时候，我尽量强迫自己每天写一首，即使不太想写。

And when I'm writing, I try to force myself to write a song every day even if I don't really feel like it.

我觉得这次就是那种不太想写的时候。

And I think this was actually one of those times where I didn't feel like it.

我写了一段副歌，但有点糟糕，所以就不跟你分享了。

I wrote a chorus that's like kind of bad, so I won't share it with him.

真的吗？

Really?

你不想分享那个不太好的副歌吗？

You don't wanna share the bad chorus?

不想。

No.

就是，我觉得它后来好多了，所以不能给你看，不然大家会……我也不知道。

It's like I like it's it got a lot better, so it's I can't show you because then people are gonna I don't know.

它会一直缠着我。

It'll it'll haunt me.

但是……

But

你能描述一下那个不太好的副歌吗？

Can you describe the bad chorus?

歌词好像是：我在崩溃，你无法缝合我。

I think the lyrics were I'm unraveling and you can't stitch me up.

我以为终于坠入爱河后，我会感觉好一些。

I thought I'd feel better when I finally fell in love.

我们把那段副歌给砍了，但保留了“崩溃”那部分。

We scrapped that chorus but kept the unraveled part.

所以就是这样。

So that's a thing.

比如，经常有人问我，对刚开始写歌的人有什么建议。

Like, people always ask me if I have any advice for people who are kind of just starting out writing songs.

我总说，别怕写烂歌，或者烂副歌什么的，因为总会有那么一点闪光的东西，你可以拿来变成好东西。

And I always say like, just don't be afraid to write the bad songs or like the bad choruses or whatever because there's always like a little nugget that you take and make it into something good.

所以我觉得你真的不能太宝贝那些东西。

And so I think you just really can't be precious with it.

我在音乐和写作上真的不是完美主义者。

I am so not a perfectionist when it comes to music or and writing.

我就是写啊写啊写。

I just write and write and write.

我觉得那显然是最快乐的方式，但也是最高产的方式。

And I think that that's obviously the most joyful way to be, but also just the most productive.

写完这首歌的第二天，我就把它带给了丹。

The next day after I wrote this, I brought it to Dan.

我当时就说，我觉得这里面有东西。

And I was like, I think that there's something here.

他说，哦，对。

And he was like, oh, yeah.

这里面确实有东西。

There definitely is something here.

她当时特别兴奋。

She was really excited about it.

我就说，这挺酷的，风格很暗，而且我以前没听你提过这种想法。

And I was like, this is cool, it's dark, and it's not something that I've heard you talk about before.

然后我们花了一天时间，把副歌和桥段的部分弄了出来。

And so we spent the day sort of figuring out the chorus and the bridge.

我基本上就是跟着她的思路走。

I was kinda following her lead.

我能看出来她很清楚自己想表达什么。

Like, I could tell that she knew what she wanted to say.

我记得开车去录音室的路上，在高速入口匝道上，突然想到，这首歌就叫《The Cure》。

I remember driving to the studio and, like, being on the Freeway on ramp and being like, oh, the song's called The Cure.

这是最简洁的表达方式了。

Like, that's the most distilled way to say this.

就像，它永远不会是《The Cure》。

Like, it'll never be The Cure.

我记得在去录音室的路上想到这个，然后跟丹说，这是我的主歌，它会叫《The Cure》。

I remember coming up with that on the way to the studio and then bringing Dan was like, this is my verse, and it's gonna be called The Cure.

我们找到了副歌的和弦，然后她开始即兴发挥一些东西。

We found the chords to the chorus, and then she started kinda riffing on some stuff.

我其实有那段声音的录音。

I actually I have the voice moment.

要我放一下吗？

Should I play it?

真好笑。

So funny.

从那时到现在，这首歌变了很多，但我记得当时我们状态特别好，真的在歌曲上有了很大进展。

It's changed so much even since then, but I just remember feeling like we were in a really good, like, flow state and we were really getting somewhere with the song.

录《The Cure》的时候，我们录得特别快，因为我就想赶紧把想法记下来。

With The Cure, we recorded it so fast because I just wanted to quickly get the idea down.

我们是在丹那个特别小的工作室里录完整张专辑的，那个工作室小得让人烦，因为录专辑的时候，空调有一半时间都是坏的。

We made this whole record in Dan's tiny little studio that's so small and it was really annoying because the air conditioner didn't work like half the time we were making the record.

那时候是夏天，特别热。

It was like summer and hot.

但我很喜欢那个小工作室。

But I love that little studio.

我们在那里做了很多歌，感觉特别温馨。

We've made so many songs in there, and it just feels so homey.

我在自己的工作室里很难写出好歌，那个工作室又大又漂亮。

I struggle like trying to write a good song in my studio that's really grand and beautiful.

我不知道。

I don't know.

就是觉得在车库里随便待着的感觉挺好的。

There's just something nice about feeling like you're you're just in the garage hanging out.

我当时坐在椅子上。

I was sitting in my chair.

她坐在沙发上，钢琴上有两个麦克风。

She was sitting on the couch, and these two microphones that are up on my piano were there.

我没有正经地给吉他收音，而是直接站在钢琴凳上，对着那两个钢琴麦克风弹吉他。

And instead of, like, micing the guitar properly, I literally just stood on the piano bench and played the guitar into the two piano mics.

那其实是个很粗糙的录音。

And it was, like, a really, like, rough take.

然后她跟着我的吉他录了人声。

And then she recorded her vocals to my guitar.

他们老是把标准改来改去。

They keep moving the line.

第一句歌词是，所有漂亮的女孩都在我脑海的前景里。

The first lyric is all the pretty girls in the foreground of my mind.

我以为我已经做得够多了，但他们一直在把标准往后移。

I thought I'd done enough, but they keep moving the line.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得这句歌词对我来说特别有共鸣。

I think it's a lyric that really hits home for me.

我觉得女性，尤其是这个行业里的女性，总是感觉标准一直在变，永远都不够，就像是一个永远填不满的无底洞，不管是成就还是美貌什么的。

I think women in general and especially women in this industry, it just constantly feels like the goalposts for us are just always changing and nothing's enough and it's this insatiable beast of of achievement or beauty or whatever.

而且在生活中，我觉得很多人就是靠让女性觉得自己不够好、需要做得更多来获益的，这真的太让人疲惫了。

And just in life, I think people benefit so much off of women feeling like they're not enough or they need to be doing more, and it's just so exhausting.

她录完人声之后，我就想，如果加一个双轨人声会是什么效果？

She recorded the vocal, and I was like, what would it sound like with a double vocal?

她就去做了。

She did it.

然后我们就说，哦，那挺酷的。

And we're like, oh, that's cool.

听起来挺有意思的。

That sounds interesting.

她其他的专辑里，人声都是那种非常私密、独一无二的感觉。

All of her other records, the vocal is, like, so intimately singular.

这样反而让人觉得更强烈、更内省。

It just makes it feel intense and introspective.

而且没有用自动调音，也没有用那种旋律修正之类的。

And there's no auto tune, and there's no, like, melodining or anything.

就是她的人声轨。

Like, they're just her vocal tracks.

在某些地方会有点摩擦，让人觉得有点不安。

They kind of rub a little bit in spaces that makes it feel unsettling.

我觉得，虽然我们有各种现代工具可以让声音听起来完美，但那种不完美的感觉反而刚刚好。

And I feel like as much as, like, we have all the modern tools that we can, like, make a vocal feel perfect, it felt imperfectly perfect.

那些夜晚，我在房间里与坏念头搏斗，感到如此孤独，简直就像在月球上一样。

All the nights spent fighting bad thoughts in my room, feeling so alone might as well be on the moon.

所以我想确保我们整体上尽可能保持原始的感觉。

So I wanted to make sure we, like, holistically kept it as raw as possible.

我不想改变任何东西。

I don't wanna change a thing.

但我们录制那天录得太快了，我都没调我的吉他。

But we recorded it so quickly the day that we recorded it that I never tuned my guitar.

所以我的吉他实际上高了大约15到20音分。

And so my guitar is actually about 15 to 20¢ sharp.

所以我最后不得不把其他所有乐器都调到吉他和人声的音准上，因为我不想动它。

And so I ended up having to tune every other instrument to the guitar and the vocal because I didn't wanna mess with it.

当我弹钢琴时，因为钢琴实际上是准的，我不得不把钢琴调柔和一些，以与吉他保持一致。

When I played the piano, because the piano was actually in tune, I had to mellow it on the piano to be in tune with the guitar.

我想我接下来给这首歌加的是朱诺贝斯。

I think the next thing I added to the song was the Juno bass.

我想要它感觉非常强烈。

I wanted it to feel really intense.

而且我喜欢那种很自然的东西和合成器并置的感觉。

And I like the juxtaposition of something so organic against a synth.

成为解药。

Be the cure.

我脑子里全是毒，心里全是怀疑。

My head is full of poison, and my heart is full of doubt.

我的血液里有毒素。

I've got toxins in my bloodstream.

你努力想把它们吸出来。

You tried hard to suck them out.

感觉就像在吃药。

And it feels like medication.

我知道这对我有好处，但你的爱现在感觉怎么样已经不重要了。

It's good for me, I'm sure, but it don't matter how your love feels anymore.

它永远不会是解药。

It'll never be the cure.

太狠了。

So evil.

确实，挺残酷的。

I mean, it's brutal.

很残酷。

It's brutal.

这首歌是对某个人说的，而把这样的话说出口，意思就是‘这虽然不错，但还不够’

The song is addressed to someone, and the idea of saying that to someone, this is cool and all, but it's not enough

不足以让我真正开心。

To actually make me happy.

这种对话，你在现实生活中是不是真的经历过？

Was a version of that conversation something you had actually already had in real life?

还是说，这是你在梳理那种感受？

Or was this you figuring out that feeling?

我觉得那是我在理清那种感受。

I think it was me figuring out that feeling.

而且说实话，我觉得这可以适用于很多事情。

And I honestly think I think it could be applicable to a lot of things.

比如，我觉得可以适用于你的职业，或者有这样一个朋友，或者这栋房子，或者别的什么。

Like, I think it could be applicable to like your career, or like having this friend, or this house, or whatever.

就是，我也不知道。

Like, I don't know.

我觉得这是我成年后一直在学习的东西。

I think that's been something that I've been learning in my adult life.

就像我以前觉得，哦，一旦我达到了某个里程碑，我就会感觉好起来。

Like all these things that I thought like, oh, once I like hit this milestone, then I'll feel okay.

我会感到平静。

I'll feel calm.

我会对自己感觉良好。

I'll feel good about myself.

我觉得随着年龄增长，你会意识到，没有任何外在的东西能让你感到完全的快乐和满足。

And I think getting older is realizing that like no outside forces could ever make you feel totally happy and content.

这完全是你内心的事。

It's like totally an inside job.

听起来有点老套，但这真的是很难学会的一件事。

And it sounds kind of cliche, but it was like a really hard thing to learn.

我觉得如果你不真正内化这一点，生活会一遍又一遍地教你。

And I think life kind of teaches you that over and over if you don't really internalize it.

我进入第一段成年人的恋情时，想着，哦，这会是个大事。

I think I I went into my first adult relationship thinking like, oh, this is gonna be a thing.

我会感到快乐，对自己感觉很好。

I'm gonna feel happy and feel great about myself.

但实际上，我觉得谈恋爱只会让你和自己之间的问题变得更复杂。

But I actually think like being in a relationship just really complicates all of the issues that you have with yourself.

我觉得它会把这些问题都浮出水面，让一切变得更难。

I think it brings them to the surface and sort of makes it a lot harder.

我觉得这就是为什么谈恋爱对人们来说这么重要，你知道吗，这就像是最好的治疗，每个人都能从中受益。

And I think that that's why it's so important for people to like be in relationships, you know, it's just like the best therapy anyone could ever go through.

你会更了解自己，弄清楚你想要什么，还有你内心的弱点在哪里，你知道吗，是的。

You just know yourself so much and you figure out what you want and like where your the cracks in your foundation are, you know, and yeah.

稍后继续，更多关于奥利维亚·罗德里戈的内容。

More with Olivia Rodrigo after this.

这首歌非常紧张，制作也非常紧张。

This song is very tense, and the production is very tense.

我在进入第二段主歌时，把吉他弹得非常非常用力。

I build up the guitar really, really intensely going into verse two.

这永远不会被治愈。

It'll never be cured.

我觉得每个人第一次听的时候都会以为鼓点要进来了，但其实没有。

I think everyone thinks when they hear it for the first time that, like, the drums are about to come in, but they don't.

我以前和男生约会时，会在脑子里玩一个游戏。

Used to play a game in my head when I dated guy.

数着他睡过的那些女孩，直到我开始哭。

Tally at the girls that he fucked till I start to cry.

我喜欢那句歌词。

I love that lyric.

这是一句非常刺耳、直击内心的歌词，我觉得这就是我这么喜欢它的原因。

It's a really harsh sort of visceral line to say and I think that's why I like it so much.

我记得我当时想写一段词多的第二段，但就是想不出来。

I remember I was trying to write a, like, a wordy second verse but couldn't come up with it.

后来某个时刻我就想，如果就只是反复唱‘宝贝，我崩溃了’呢？

And at a certain point, I was just like, what if it's just baby I'm unraveled, like, over and over again?

有时候少即是多。

Sometimes less is more.

我从结尾开始听的，哥们儿。

I it from the end, dude.

这次我彻底崩溃了。

This time that I'm unraveled.

我当时对“崩溃”这个概念特别着迷，而且我很喜欢它在我脑海中浮现的画面。

I was sort of obsessed with the the concept of unraveling and I I loved the visual image that it conjured up.

我喜欢这个词带给我的感觉。

I loved the feeling of the word.

而且，我脑海里有一种画面，就是当你坠入爱河时，所有那些伪装和面具都得卸下来，对我来说，那就像是一种崩溃。

Also, I just kind of had this image of falling in love and feeling like all of the artifices and all of these fronts that you put up kind of just had to fall down and that felt like an unraveling to me.

在崩溃的过程中，那些内心深处最真实、最脆弱的部分被翻出来，这算是这张专辑的主题之一。

And all of these like really deep raw parts of yourself being brought up in the unraveling was sort of one of the themes of the album.

所以，是的，这对我意义重大。

So, yeah, it means so much to me.

而且，我就是喜欢它那种层层递进、不断累积的感觉，直到最后达到高潮，我在结尾处几乎是嘶吼着唱出“我崩溃了”。

And yeah, I just love how it kind of grows and and builds and builds until it kind of like reaches ahead and I'm just kind of like screaming, I'm unraveled at the very end.

我记得丹当时说，唱到

I remember Dan being like, hit

那个高音。

that note.

我崩溃了。

I'm unraveled.

我崩溃了。

I'm unraveled.

然后我就说，我不知道。

And being like, I don't know.

这有点过了。

Like, this is a lot.

我不知道我能不能做到。

I don't know if I could do that.

这太疯狂了。

Like, this is crazy.

他就说，相信我。

And he's like, just trust me.

结果这成了我在这首歌里最喜欢的部分之一。

And it's like, turned out to be one of my favorite parts of the song.

我们有个很棒的朋友，保罗·卡特赖特，其实我所有专辑的弦乐都是他负责的。

We have an amazing friend, Paul Cartwright, who does all the strings on on all of my albums, actually.

而且很多弦乐部分我都是先用MIDI录的，比如那些低沉的大提琴声，全都是MIDI做的。

And a lot of the string parts I recorded in MIDI first, like the like the chugging cellos are all, like, MIDI.

不知道为什么，在这首歌里，我特别喜欢MIDI弦乐的声音。

For some reason on this song, I really liked the way that the MIDI strings sounded.

所以我就直接保留了，然后保罗跟着MIDI弦乐一起演奏。

So I just kept them, and then Paul played along to the MIDI strings.

我记得他给我发了一个带弦乐的demo。

I remember him sending me a a demo of it with strings.

听起来真的很美，又有点暗黑。

It really felt so beautiful and and dark.

我觉得弦乐听起来就像恋爱的感觉。

I think strings just sound like being in love.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

但我记得，不知道为什么，我听的时候心情特别不好。

But I remember some reason we like I remember listening to it and was like, I think I was in like a really bad mood.

我觉得我还没准备好去听这首歌的主题。

I think I wasn't ready to like hear the subject matter of the song.

它很真实、很赤裸，很难承认自己就是这种感觉。

It's very honest and raw and it's like kind of hard to admit to yourself that this is how you're feeling.

他给我发了小样，然后说：‘这很棒，对吧？’

And he sent me a demo and he's like, this is great, isn't it?

我就说：‘还行吧。’

And I was like, it's okay.

我现在不太想听这个。

I don't really wanna listen to it right now.

感觉就像我一时消化不了似的。

Like, it was almost like too much for me to metabolize or something like that.

所以丹总是拿我不喜欢初稿这件事开玩笑。

And so Dan always makes fun of me for not liking the first draft.

所以你在鼓点进来之前会一直坐立不安，这是刻意设计的。

So you're kind of on the edge of your seat for a while until the drums come in, that was done very intentionally.

当你这么久都不用鼓，等它们一进来，就会感觉特别重要，真的会震撼到你。

When you abstain from using the drums for so long that when they come in, it feels so important and it, like, really hits you.

鼓手是Sterling Laws，他是一位非常出色的鼓手。

The drums are played by Sterling Laws, who's this incredible drummer.

他打的那些加花，感觉特别有情感。

The fills that he plays, feel really emotional.

他打鼓的时候，我能感觉到鼓点在我胸口震动。

I like feel them in my chest when he plays them.

我这么喜欢这首歌，这么喜欢这个制作的原因之一，就是感觉你真的需要努力才能得到那种回报。

One of the reasons why I love this song so much and and why I love the production so much is it kind of feels like you really have to earn that payoff.

你懂我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

它不会在第一段副歌就给你那种感觉。

It it doesn't give it to you right at the first chorus.

你得继续听下去。

You kind of have to keep listening.

它让你保持期待，直到鼓点和弦乐进来，感觉就像那种宏大的高潮。

It like keeps you hopefully sort of engaged until like the drums come in and the strings come in and it feels like this like soaring huge payoff.

我觉得这首歌有点像是在提问。

I think that song is a little bit of a question.

它不是那种‘哦，我搞懂了爱情和人生的意义’的感觉。

I think it's not like, oh, well, I figured out the meaning of love and life.

然后这就是答案。

And here it is.

它更像是‘为什么这永远不够？’

It's like, oh, why can't this ever be enough?

这就是那句歌词。

Which is the lyric.

它真的就是在问，你懂我的意思吗？

It's like, it's just genuinely asking, you know what I mean?

我觉得这个概念，可能我19岁的时候还没有足够的情感智慧去理解。

And I think that it's a concept that I didn't have the like, emotional intelligence maybe to understand when I was 19.

不过也说得过去。

Like, fair enough.

但我觉得，要写出这首歌，并在写的过程中领悟到那些道理，真的需要经历很多成长、自我探索和挣扎。

But I think it took a lot of like growing and self discovery and struggle, I think to like, make this song and come to the realizations that I came to while writing it.

我觉得这是我写过的最内省的一首歌之一。

I think it's one of the most introspective songs I've ever written.

它对我来说意义重大。

It means so much to me.

现在，请欣赏Olivia Rodrigo的《The Cure》完整版。

And now, here's The Cure by Olivia Rodrigo in its entirety.

想了解更多，请访问songexploder.net。

To learn more, visit songexploder.net.

那里有购买或收听《The Cure》的链接，还可以观看音乐视频。

You'll find links to buy or stream The Cure, and you can watch the music video.

这一集是我和克雷格·伊利、玛丽·多兰、凯瑟琳·史密斯还有泰格·比斯凯特一起制作的。

This episode was produced by me, Craig Ealy, Mary Dolan, Kathleen Smith, and Tiger Biscuit.

这一集的封面设计是卡洛斯·莱尔马做的，节目的主题音乐和标志是我自己弄的。

The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma, and I made the show's theme music and logo.

《Song Exploder》很荣幸成为PRX旗下Radiotopia的一员，这是一个由独立、听众支持、艺术家拥有的播客组成的网络。

Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener supported, artist owned podcasts.

你可以在radiotopia.fm上了解更多我们的节目，也可以自己支持它们。

You can learn more about our shows and support them yourself at radiotopia.fm.

如果你想听更多我的内容，可以订阅我的通讯，在《Song Exploder》的网站上也能找到。

And if you'd like to hear more from me, you can subscribe to my newsletter, which you can also find on the Song Exploder website.

你还可以在songexploder.net/shirt买到《Song Exploder》的T恤。

You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at songexploder.net/shirt.

我是里希凯什·希尔维。

I'm Rishikesh Hirway.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

来自PRX的Radiotopia。

Radiotopia from PRX.

Radiotopia推出了一档新播客，叫Lightbox。

There's a new podcast from Radiotopia called Lightbox.

在这档节目中，作曲人兼主持人马克·亨利·菲利普斯探讨了人工智能如何影响音乐产业以及音乐从业者。

In the show, composer and host Mark Henry Phillips investigates how AI is affecting the music industry and the people who make it.

节目采访了开发AI音乐生成工具的首席执行官们，还有那些偷偷使用这些工具的格莱美获奖制作人，以及试图阻止他们的传奇音乐人。

The episodes feature interviews with the CEOs building AI music generation tools, and the Grammy winning producers who are secretly using them, and the legendary musicians that are trying to stop them.

Lightbox讲的是音乐的故事，但也是关于当机器开始做那些我们曾以为只有人类才能做的事情时，我们会失去什么。

Lightbox is a story about music, but also about what we lose when machines start doing the things that we thought made us human.

现在就在radiotopia.fm或你收听播客的任何平台收听Lightbox吧。

Listen to Lightbox now at radiotopia.fm or wherever you get your podcasts.