金融诈骗：为何部分老年人面临风险，杜克·汉博士解析

任何人都可能成为金融诈骗的目标，但许多老年人尤其处于高风险之中。根据联邦调查局网络犯罪投诉中心的数据，2023年针对60岁以上人群的诈骗使受害者损失超过34亿美元，平均每位受害者损失近3.4万美元。并非所有老年人都处于高风险，但研究人员发现，金融脆弱性可能是认知障碍甚至阿尔茨海默病的早期信号。那么金融欺诈和虐待有多普遍？哪些脆弱因素使部分老年人面临特别风险？

Anyone can be targeted by a financial scammer, but many older adults are especially at risk. Scams targeting people over age 60 cost victims more than $3,400,000,000 in 2023, according to the FBI's Internet Crime Complaint Center. The average victim lost nearly $34,000 Not all older adults are at high risk, but researchers are finding that financial vulnerability could be an early sign of cognitive impairment or even Alzheimer's disease. So how prevalent is financial fraud and abuse? What vulnerability factors put some older adults at particular risk?

金融脆弱性与大脑变化之间有什么联系？人们又该如何保护自己和亲人免受骗子的侵害？欢迎收听《心理学之谈》，这是美国心理学会旗舰播客，探讨心理科学与日常生活之间的联系。我是金·米尔斯。今天我们来自科罗拉多州丹佛市，美国心理学会正在这里举行2025年年会。

What's the connection between financial vulnerability and changes in the brain? And what can people do to protect themselves and their loved ones from falling victim to a scammer? Welcome to Speaking of Psychology, the flagship podcast of the American Psychological Association that examines the links between psychological science and everyday life. I'm Kim Mills. Today we're coming to you from Denver, Colorado, where APA is meeting for its twenty twenty five annual convention.

今天的嘉宾是杜克·哈恩博士，他将于本周晚些时候在大会上发言。哈恩博士是南加州大学心理学、家庭医学、神经病学和老年学教授，他是获得委员会认证的临床神经心理学家，美国心理学会会士，国家神经心理学会会士。

My guest today is Doctor. Duke Hahn, who will be speaking at the convention later this week. Doctor. Hahn is a professor of psychology, family medicine, neurology and gerontology at the University of Southern California. He is a board certified clinical neuropsychologist, an APA fellow, and a fellow of the National Academy of Neuropsychology.

他的研究聚焦于影响老龄化过程中认知和决策的因素，尤其对金融决策感兴趣。他的研究曾被CNN、路透社和PBS等多家媒体报道。哈恩博士，感谢您今天做客节目。

His research focuses on factors that affect cognition and decision making in aging, with with particular interest in financial decision making. His work has been featured in many media outlets, including CNN, Reuters, and PBS. Doctor. Holland, thank you for joining me today.

谢谢邀请，金。太棒了。我是这档节目的忠实粉丝，所以很高兴来到这里。

Thanks for having me, Kim. This is great. I'm a big fan of the show, and so it's good to be here.

哦，谢谢。那么我先问您，金融诈骗和专门针对老年人的骗子有多普遍？我们知不知道，例如，有多少或多大比例的人一生中可能受害？

Oh, thank you. So let me start by asking you how common are financial scams and predators, especially the ones who prey on older adults? Do we know, for instance, how many or what percentage of people might be victimized in their lifetime?

我们并没有确切的数字。原因在于，政府或其他机构没有有效的中央追踪项目来记录这个问题的严重程度。目前研究显示，大约5%到10%的老年人报告遭遇此类事件，但许多从事该领域研究的人认为，这严重低估了我国这一问题的实际规模。确实没人知道它到底有多普遍。我经常就此话题做演讲，每次演讲后都有不少人过来告诉我，他们自己或家人就经历过这种事。

We don't have great numbers on this. And the reason for that is because there aren't any central tracking programs from the government or elsewhere that have been effective in tracking how bad of a problem this has been. Now we know from research that people report this in about five to ten percent of the older adult population, but many of us who do research in this area think this is a hugely underestimation of what this problem actually is in our country. And really no one really knows how prevalent this is. I will say I give talks on this topic frequently, and after each talk a number of people come up to me and say that this has happened in their life, in their family.

所以我觉得它的普遍程度远超我们的想象。

And so I think it's a lot more prevalent than what we think.

最常见的诈骗类型有哪些？这些诈骗现在大多发生在网上，还是仍然通过电话甚至纸质邮件进行？

What are the most common types of scams, and are most of these scams online now, or are they still happening by phone or even snail mail?

有趣的是，诈骗的分布似乎与受害者的年龄段高度相关。在较早的老年阶段，电子邮件诈骗和电话诈骗非常普遍。再往上，电话诈骗更常见，电子诈骗减少，我想是因为使用频率降低。而在最年长的群体中，信不信由你，纸质邮件竟然是诈骗老年人的最主要方式之一。

So it's interesting. The prevalence of scams seem to be very focused on the age range, actually, of the victim. And so in, I would say, early older age, there is a lot of prevalent email scam, phone scam. If you go a little bit older, the phone scam becomes more prevalent and less electronic scams just because I think there's less utilization. And then in the oldest age groups, believe it or not, snail mail is actually one of the most prevalent ways to scam older adults.

我觉得这还是因为它的使用频率更高。

And I think it's, again, because it's just more utilized.

那具体怎么操作？我是说， snail mail 现在听起来太古老了。有人给你寄封信，上面写着“把你所有的钱都给我”。

And how would that work? I mean, snail mail, it feels so ancient these days. I mean, somebody sends you a letter and says, Give me all your money.

有很多令人心酸的案例，老年人收到信件说“请支持这个问题或这项事业”，而这些事业其实是假的。因为老年人非常慷慨善良，他们常常会回应这些经济支持的请求。我想我可以透露，邮局局长必须在大范围内处理这类问题，所以他们非常希望解决，尤其是针对老年人的情况。

There's lots of really sad cases of older adults being sent letters saying, Help support this issue or this cause, and those causes being bogus, actually. And so because older adults are very generous and kind, they often end up responding to those calls for financial support. And I think I can share this, that the postmaster, this is something that the postmaster has to deal with on a pretty wide scale. And so they are very interested in trying to address this in particularly older adults.

大多数骗子是陌生人吗？还是人们被亲友诈骗的频率也一样高？

Are most of the scammers strangers, or do people get scammed just as often by friends and relatives?

我们利用一些可用数据库做过研究，看看骗子类型或哪种骗子更常见。至少在部分犯罪中，情况似乎是，不幸的是，家庭成员往往就是实施者。话虽如此，我们也知道来自电子或陌生人渠道的诈骗非常普遍，很多其实来自美国境外，专门诈骗美国老年人。所以范围很广。

So we have done some research in using some available databases to see how prevalent the type of scammer or what type of scammer might be committing these crimes. And it does seem to be the case, at least in certain crimes, that family members unfortunately are very commonly the ones that are perpetrating this. Now that being said, we also know that scam and fraud is very prevalent from electronic or stranger based locations. And so a lot of these are actually from outside The United States just trying to scam older adults in The United States. So there really is a range.

再说一次，我们确实没有很好的数据来知道哪类骗子更常见。

And again, we don't really have great data to know how prevalent what type of scammer is versus another.

我认识一个人，我觉得他现在正被人骗。起初对方是陌生人，现在他以为自己跟一个女人在网上谈恋爱，而那女人很可能是外国某个陌生男人。这种手法很常见吗？对老年人特别有效？

You know, I have an acquaintance who I think right now is being scammed by somebody. And and this person started out as a stranger, and now he thinks he's having some kind of an online relationship with a woman who is probably some, strange man in a foreign country. I mean, is that a very common technique that works well, particularly with older people?

当然，这种骗局通常叫“恋爱诈骗”，或者广义上的人际关系诈骗。不幸的是，孤独和社交孤立是遭遇诈骗、欺诈或经济剥削的最大风险因素之一。于是陌生人会设法与老年人熟络起来，因为老年人资源更多，又可能更孤独，对这些示好会非常回应，这种情况甚至不需要认知受损。

Sure, yeah. So this is a common scam known as a romance scam, or it could be a romance scam. It doesn't have to be even romantically involved, just some sort of interpersonal relationship scam. And unfortunately, loneliness and social isolation is one of the biggest risk factors for a scam or fraud or financial exploitation vulnerability. And so this is a scenario where a stranger will try to become more familiar with an older adult because that older adult has more resources and that older adult might be feeling more lonely and may be very responsive to those overtures, that's a situation where you don't necessarily need to have any cognitive impairment involved.

可能只是老年人感到更孤独、更被孤立。令人难过的是，这些陌生人往往与老年人变得非常亲近，老年人也会把大量资源托付给这些坏人，超出了应有的信任。我们经常会听到这类情况。

It could be sheerly just an older adult feeling more lonely and more isolated. And in those cases it's sad because often these strangers become very close to these older adults and these older adults trust these strangers, these bad actors, with a lot more of their resources than they should. And so these are situations that are fairly common that we hear about.

你是临床神经心理学家，是什么让你对经济脆弱性产生兴趣的？

So you're a clinical neuropsychologist. What got you interested in financial vulnerability?

我一直对阿尔茨海默病的最早迹象很感兴趣。从认知角度来看，我也一直关注哪些认知衰退的最初信号可能预示未来会患上阿尔茨海默病。多年来，这已成为我研究的基础。同时，我也在门诊为痴呆症患者做评估。我清晰地记得职业生涯中有一个阶段，我接连接诊了几位患者，因为他们被发现向陌生人赠送大笔金钱，大家便推测他们得了痴呆，就像我们刚才讨论的那样。

I had always been interested in the earliest signs of Alzheimer's disease. And from a cognition standpoint, I had always been interested in what are the first signs of cognitive decline that might indicate Alzheimer's disease down the road. And that's been a basis of my research for many years. And at the same time I was seeing patients for dementia evaluations. And I remember vividly at one point in my career where I had a patient referred one after the other because it was presumed they had dementia because discovered they were giving away large sums of money to a stranger, just like we had been talking about.

那是一种以前从未出现过的行为改变。家人和医疗人员普遍推测，哦，这其实是早期痴呆，得赶紧确诊。于是他们把患者转给我，我会花几个小时对这些患者进行测试，结果他们的认知表现完全正常。显然，行为确实发生了变化，但我们的认知测试却没能发现任何认知损伤，这就有些脱节。家人和医疗人员常常感到失望，因为这反而让情况变得更不明朗。

And that was a change in behavior that had never happened before. And there was this general presumption from the family and the medical providers, Oh, this is actually early dementia, let's get it diagnosed. And so they would send me these patients and I would do hours of testing on these patients and they would test cognitively normal. And so clearly, there had been a change in behavior, our cognitive tests weren't picking up on the fact that there was any cognitive impairment, and so that was a bit of a disconnect. And often the family and the medical providers were disappointed because it just made things less clear.

患者本人通常很高兴，因为这给了他们继续这样做的“许可”。但作为一名临床神经心理学家，这让我意识到，关于老年人财务决策、认知以及早期阿尔茨海默病或早期痴呆之间的关系，我们还有很多不了解的地方。于是我开始思考，这会不会是在任何认知损伤被察觉之前，最早出现的痴呆信号之一？当时我正与芝加哥的拉什阿尔茨海默病研究中心合作，那是一个出色的研究中心。他们已就此课题启动研究，然后事情一步步发展，从那时起这便成了我的研究重点。

The patient often loved it because it gave them license to keep doing what they were doing. But for me as a clinical neuropsychologist, it made me realize there's really a lot that we just don't understand about the relationship of financial decision making in older age and cognition and early Alzheimer's disease or early dementia. And so that got me thinking, could this be one of the earliest signs of dementia even before any cognitive impairment is noticed? And I was working with an Alzheimer's research center at the time, the Rush Alzheimer's Disease Center, which is an amazing center based out of Chicago. They had started doing research studies on this topic and then one thing led to another and it sort of took off as a research focus from that point on.

我们先短暂休息一下。回来后，我将与韩博士讨论他最近关于财务易受骗性作为阿尔茨海默病早期信号的研究。自那以后，您的一些研究发现财务易受骗性与大脑中阿尔茨海默病的早期迹象存在关联。您能讲讲这项工作吗？

We're going to take a short break. When we return, I'll talk to Doctor. Han about his recent research on financial vulnerability as an early sign of Alzheimer's disease. Since then, some of your research has found that there is a connection between financial vulnerability and early signs of Alzheimer's disease in the brain. Can you tell us about that work?

我们最近发表了一项研究，关注的是没有认知损伤迹象的老年人，但他们在财务易受骗程度上有所不同。研究发现，内嗅皮层这一脑区在更容易遭受诈骗和欺诈的老年人中变得更薄。再次强调，这组人没有任何认知损伤。这项研究值得注意的一点是，内嗅皮层被公认为最早受到阿尔茨海默病神经病理影响的脑区之一。因此，我们看到的结果提示，内嗅皮层变薄、可能因开始累积阿尔茨海默病神经病理的老年人，对诈骗和欺诈表现出更高的易感性。

So we had a study recently published that focused on older adults that had no signs of cognitive impairment, but also varied with respect to their financial vulnerability status. And in this study we found that a brain region called the entorhinal cortex was thinner in older adults who were more vulnerable to financial scam and fraud. And again, this was in a group of people with no cognitive impairment. And so another aspect to this particular study in this particular brain region that's important to understand is that this brain region, the entorhinal cortex, is commonly known as one of the first brain regions to be impacted by Alzheimer's disease neuropathology. So what we saw in the study was that older adults who had thinner entorhinal cortex, presumably because they were starting to accumulate Alzheimer's disease neuropathology, showed greater vulnerability to financial scam and fraud.

而且，这些老年人同样没有任何认知损伤。这帮助我们理解，为何某些老年人在任何可察觉的认知损伤出现之前，就会做出糟糕的财务决策。可能他们的大脑已出现与早期阿尔茨海默病一致的变化，而记忆衰退尚未显现。我还要指出，内嗅皮层对财务决策很重要，因为它连接了一个帮助我们想象未来结果的脑网络，同时也连接了另一个评估事物价值、评估某些结果价值的脑网络。

And again, are older adults who had no cognitive impairment. So this helps us understand why certain older adults might show poor financial decision making ahead of any noticeable cognitive impairment. It could be that they're showing brain changes consistent with early Alzheimer's disease before any noticeable memory decline. Now, I'll also say that the entorhinal cortex is an important brain region for financial decision making because it connects a brain network that helps us imagine future outcomes. So it also connects another brain network that helps us assess the value of certain things, the value of certain outcomes.

你可以想象，如果一位老年人的这一脑区变薄，而该区域正是连接“想象未来结果”与“评估适当价值”能力的关键节点，那么这位老人就可能更容易被骗、被欺诈和被经济剥削。因此，这些因素共同解释了，为何某些老年人在任何可察觉的认知损伤出现之前，就会做出糟糕的财务决策。可能是因为他们的内嗅皮层厚度减少，而这一区域正是众所周知的最早受阿尔茨海默病影响的脑区之一。

And so you can imagine if an older adult has thinning brain in this particular region that helps connect the ability to imagine certain outcomes and the ability to assess appropriate value, that that particular older adult might be more vulnerable to scam and fraud and financial exploitation. So all of these things come together to really help explain why certain older adults might show poor financial decisions ahead of any noticeable cognitive impairment. It could be that they're showing less thickness of the entorhinal cortex because this is commonly known to be one of the first brain regions impacted by Alzheimer's disease.

您研究过的人里，有没有一些人自己意识到出了问题？我的意思是，他们可能开始明白自己正在把钱送出去，也开始察觉自己可能正在丧失一些执行功能？

Do any of the people you've studied have sort of a cognizance of their own that something is going wrong? I mean, they may begin to understand that they're giving away their money. And are they beginning to see also that perhaps they're losing some of their executive function?

我们研究项目之外的人常问这个问题：这些老年人怎么不知道自己正在做出糟糕的财务决策？在我们的研究中，有趣的是，我们也在努力深入探讨这一点。许多老年人并不认为自己做出了糟糕的财务决策，因此他们可能缺乏对自己行为的洞察。

This is something that we often get asked by people outside of our research program. How come these older adults don't know that they're making these poor financial decisions? In our research, we are, it's been interesting, we've been trying to delve into that a bit more. Many older adults don't really think they're making poor financial decisions. And so there is that lack of insight potentially in what they're doing.

一个更有趣的转折是，有些老年人完全能够说出自己正在做出糟糕的财务决策，但他们依旧这么做。即使你向他们指出：你刚才告诉我这可能不是好决定，为什么还继续？他们会说，嗯，我就是想这么做。有人可能会说，这仍然是一种缺乏洞察的表现。但说实话，我们还没有完全理解洞察与财务决策之间的联系，不过我们希望能进一步了解。

In a really interesting twist, think, some older adults fully are able to articulate that they're making poor financial decisions and they still do it. Even if you explain to these older adults, well, you just told me that this is probably not a good decision, why do you keep doing it? They'll say things like, well, it's because I just want to. And so some might argue maybe that is still a lack of insight actually. But honestly, still haven't really fully understood the link between insight and financial decisions, but it's something that we're hoping to learn more about.

所以出现这些情况并不总是阿尔茨海默病或其他认知衰退的迹象。但人们的大脑里是不是在发生别的变化，还是他们只是容易上当、只是想找个朋友、信任了某人，然后就把毕生积蓄拱手相送？

So it's not always a sign of Alzheimer's or any other kind of mental decline when these things are happening. But is something else going on in people's brains, or they just are gullible and they're just looking for a friend, they trust somebody, and then they decide to give away their life savings?

我们从事这项研究已经有一段时间了，我们确实认为一部分老年人会出现与早期痴呆一致的大脑变化，而这些变化发生在任何可察觉的认知衰退之前。话虽如此，我们也认为有些老年人可能并没有出现与痴呆一致的大脑变化，他们的糟糕财务决策可能源于其他原因，比如孤独或社交隔离。做了多年这项工作后，我逐渐意识到，老年人在某些情境下做出糟糕财务决策，其实有各种各样的原因。我还必须强调，只有一部分老年人可能更容易受到诈骗或金融剥削。在这项工作中，我也遇到一种观点，认为随着年龄增长，我们都会成为糟糕的财务决策者。

So we've been doing this work for quite some time now, and we do believe that a portion of older adults do show brain changes that are consistent with early dementia ahead of any noticeable cognitive decline. Now that being said, we also believe that some older adults may not show any brain changes consistent with dementia and might be showing poor financial decision making for other reasons, such as they may be lonely or they may be socially isolated. Doing this work for a number of years now, I've grown to appreciate there really is a host of different reasons why certain older adults might make poor financial decisions in certain situations. Now, I do need to also stress that it's really just a portion of older adults that might be more vulnerable to scam or fraud or financial exploitation. Also in this work, I've come across the notion that some believe that as we grow older, we're all going to be poor financial decision makers.

我们都会更容易上当受骗。我必须明确地说，事实并非如此。大量数据表明，绝大多数老年人随着年龄增长甚至不会出现认知障碍，他们只会表现出与年龄相符的正常认知。所以我想插一句，那种看法在我看来是非常年龄歧视的。

We're all going to be more susceptible to scammer fraud. And I emphatically have to say that that's not the case. There's lots of data to support actually the vast majority of older adults won't even show cognitive impairment as they grow older. They'll just show normal cognition with respect to their age. And so I did want to just take a brief aside and say that way of thinking is, in my opinion, very ageist.

并不是所有老年人都会表现出糟糕的财务决策，甚至不会出现认知障碍。但我们确实认为，一部分老年人可能由于大脑变化或其他风险因素（如孤独等，我们多年来一直在研究这些因素）而更容易成为诈骗或金融剥削的受害者。

It's not that all older adults are going to show poor financial decision making or even show cognitive impairment, But we do believe that a portion of older adults may become more vulnerable to scammer fraud or financial exploitations because of brain changes or because of other risk factors, such as loneliness and others that we've studied throughout the years.

人们可以做什么来保护自己？或者家庭成员可以做什么来保护家中其他正在老去的亲人？

What can people do to protect themselves, or what can their family members do to protect other members of their family as they're aging?

我们确实认为一些老年人会出现与早期阿尔茨海默病、痴呆或认知衰退一致的大脑变化。因此，我认为监测认知和大脑健康——也就是关注老年阶段的大脑健康——是所有老年人都可以采取的一种方式。我们刚才谈到社交隔离，这是另一个风险因素，在老年人虐待研究领域是非常强的风险因素。

We do believe that some older adults may show brain changes consistent with early Alzheimer's disease or dementia or cognitive decline. And so I think monitoring of cognition and brain health, just a focus on brain health in older age, is one way to address this for all older adults. We had been talking about social isolation. That's another risk factor. It's a very strong risk factor in the elder abuse research world.

它使某些老年人更容易遭受虐待和金融剥削。因此，保护老年人的另一种方式，或者说让这个问题不那么严重的方式，就是减少老年人的社交隔离。增加联系频率，建立有意义的关系。我们有一项研究表明，保护因素并不是老年人认识多少人，而是即使只与几个人建立深厚的关系，这种深度关系也能防范金融诈骗。

It predisposes certain older adults to abuse and financial exploitation. So another way that an older adult could be protected, or at least this could be less of an issue, is reducing social isolation of older adults. Increasing frequency of contact, developing meaningful relationships. We have a study showing that it's not just how many people an older adult knows that is protective, it's really how deep of a relationship they have with even just a few people. That aspect is protective against financial scam and fraud.

其他像促进健康的一般行为也有帮助。例如，我们有一项研究表明，体弱与老年期更高的金融剥削易感性相关。这里所说的体弱，具体指听力和视力。因此，即使只是及时应对视力衰退，尤其是听力衰退，使用助听器等措施，也能保护老年人免受诈骗或金融剥削。此外，普遍提高对这些事情正在发生的意识也是好事。

Other things like general health promoting behaviors are helpful. So for example, we have a study showing that frailty is associated with higher financial exploitation vulnerability in older age. And by frailty, specifically hearing and seeing. So even just staying on top of declines in vision or especially declines in hearing, the use of hearing aids and things like that are gonna protect older adults against scam or fraud or financial exploitation. Also just general awareness that these things are happening is a good thing.

所以，针对老年人开展的教育项目，提高对诈骗的认识。我们此刻正在做的这个播客，任何媒体关注，我认为都有助于引起人们对这件事的重视。信息传播得越广，就越能帮助大家识别可能是诈骗或欺诈的事情，同时也有助于减少一些污名和羞耻感，因为这确实可能发生在任何人身上。

So education programs that bring awareness about scam and fraud of older adults. This podcast that we're doing right now. Any media interest, I think that helps bring attention to this matter. The more that the word gets out, I think this helps to bring attention to things that could be scam or fraud. It also helps, I think, to reduce some of the stigma and the shame because this is truly something that can happen to anyone.

这并不意味着你就会患上阿尔茨海默病或认知能力差。任何人都可能做出糟糕的决定。我可以告诉你，在我们自己的研究中，有受过高等教育的医生和律师参与我们的研究项目。所以这事可能发生在任何人身上，真的不只是因为年龄增长就会发生。

It doesn't mean that you're gonna develop Alzheimer's disease or that you have poor cognition. Anyone can make a poor decision. I can tell you in our own research we have very highly educated doctors and lawyers, participants in our research program. So it can happen to anyone. It's really not something that is gonna happen just because you grow older.

所以这样的故事，我认为，对于减少此类事件背后的污名和羞耻感非常有帮助。最后我想说，如果确实发生了，我鼓励任何听到的人去举报。现在有很多举报方式。ic3.gov 就是政府设立的一个网站，ic3.gov 这个网站就是用来举报任何网络骗子或欺诈行为的。

So stories like this, I think, go a long way to help reducing the stigma and the shame behind this when it does happen. And then I will say, finally, if it does happen, I would encourage anyone listening to report it. There's lots of reporting methods now. So ic3.gov is something that was developed by the government. Ic3.gov is the website, and that's to report any sort of internet scammer fraud.

参议院为此设有热线。AARP 也有他们的欺诈观察项目，提供多种资源来应对这类问题。所以如果不幸真的发生了，我鼓励大家务必举报，因为通过举报，可以帮助保护他人免受同样的命运。

The Senate has a hotline about this. AARP has their fraud watch program, which has a number of different resources to try to address this. So if unfortunately it does happen, I would encourage anyone to please report it, because in the reporting that helps to protect others from the same fate.

而且我知道，至少我的金融机构会要求我在很多账户上指定一位联系人，这样另一个人就能查看账户，虽然无法操作，但可以发现是否有异常情况发生。

And I think, at least I know, my financial institutions ask me to have a designated other person on a lot of my accounts so that somebody else would have the ability to look in and not really do anything, but know if something strange were happening.

是的，我认为这样的项目非常有帮助。如果老年人愿意参与这些项目，我觉得，越多人关注老年人的福祉，就越能有效防范目前针对老年人愈演愈烈的诈骗和欺诈流行病。

Yes, and I think programs like that go a long way to help. And I think if older adults are willing to engage in those programs, I think, again, it's the more people that are involved that are looking out for the welfare of older adults, I think that actually goes a long way to help protect against really this epidemic of scam and fraud among older adults, is happening right now.

你认为还有哪些政策变化可能有助于预防这些诈骗？

Are there other policy changes that you think might help prevent these scams?

我们领域中有许多人认为，对实施这些犯罪的人施加更严厉的惩罚可能会有所帮助。这可能有效果。但实际上这不是我的研究领域，我无法详细谈论。我们之前提到的一些公共教育项目，我认为对解决这个问题非常有帮助。至于政策方面，我们一开始也谈到，目前并没有很好的追踪项目。

There are many in our field that believe that having harsher penalties for people who commit these crimes might be helpful. That could help. I actually it's not my area, I can't really speak to that. We had mentioned some of the public education programs I think go a long way to help address this. In terms of policy, I think we started off this conversation with the fact that there aren't really great trekking programs.

如果有一个优秀的追踪项目，能让老年人在经历这类事件时减少羞耻和内疚感，并愿意举报，这样我们就能追踪并了解这个问题的严重程度，获得真实可靠的数据，我认为这将大大有助于解决这一问题。

And if there was a great trekking program, one that would help older adults feel less shame and guilt about experiencing this and being able to report that so that we can track and see how bad this problem is and have real good data, I think that would go a long way to help address this problem as well.

你现在还在研究什么？作为神经心理学家，你还想解答哪些重要问题？

What else are you working on right now? What are the other big questions that you want to answer as a neuropsychologist?

我们仍在研究这是否可以作为阿尔茨海默病性痴呆的潜在早期标志。因此，我们目前正在开发方法，利用最新研发的阿尔茨海默病血液检测技术。我们希望在研究中引入这些血液检测。我们仍然非常关注早期大脑变化，也非常关注大脑之外的其他因素，比如社交关系、社交孤立、身体健康状况以及其他背景因素。

We are still pursuing this as a potential early marker of Alzheimer's disease dementia. And so one of the things that we're doing right now is we're developing ways to actually look and use very, very new blood tests that have been developed for Alzheimer's disease specifically. So we're hoping to incorporate some of these blood tests in our research. We are still very much interested in early brain changes. We're still very much interested in all the other factors outside the brain, so social relationships, social isolation, medical health, other factors, other contextual factors.

我们非常关注这一现象在不同弱势群体中的表现，目前我们在这方面几乎没有可靠数据。我们知道，总体而言，少数族裔的老年人更容易成为目标，或经历更多诈骗和欺诈。我们需要了解为什么会这样，并努力解决这一问题。这些都是我们未来想要重点研究的问题。

We are very interested in how this might look in different underrepresented people groups, and so that's something that we really don't have great data at all on. And we know that generally speaking, older, minoritized people groups are targeted more, or they experience more scam or fraud. We need to know that why that's the case. And we need to try to address that. So these are just some of the questions that we're trying to focus on in the future.

韩医生，感谢您今天来参加我的节目。真的很高兴在丹佛见到您。

Doctor. Han, I want to thank you for joining me today. It's really been great seeing you here in Denver.

是啊，能和你一起在这里真的很棒，Kim，再次感谢你邀请我参加你的节目。我是你的忠实粉丝。

Yeah, really great being here with you, Kim, and thanks again for having me on your program. Big fan.

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我是Kim Mills，代表美国心理协会。

For the American Psychological Association, I'm Kim Mills.