开启比特币职业生涯，参与₿OSS挑战赛，与Satsie、Macgyver和Sangbida一起 | SLP706

这个项目的核心就是给予人们展示才华的机会。

This program is all about giving people the opportunity to show what they've got.

在喧嚣中脱颖而出非常困难，而BOSS挑战赛正是实现这一目标的途径之一。

It is very difficult to put out your signal over the noise, and the BOSS Challenge is one way to do that.

无论你是像澳大利亚的企业开发者Sam Beta，还是像世界另一端的初创公司经理MacGyver，这都不重要。

It doesn't matter if you're like Sam Beta and you are a corporate developer in Australia, or if you're on the other side of the world like MacGyver and you are a manager at a startup.

无论你是欧洲的苹果开发者、尼日利亚的安全研究员、Uber Eats外卖员还是代数老师，这些都是通过BOSS挑战赛并最终获得全额资助职业发展的真实案例。

It doesn't matter if you are an Apple developer in Europe, a security researcher in Nigeria, an Uber Eats driver, or an algebra teacher, these are all examples of people that have come through the BOSS challenge and emerged on the other side with fully funded careers.

大家好，欢迎回到Stefan Lovera的播客节目。

Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Stefan Lovera podcast.

今天我们要讨论的是BOSS项目。

Today, we're gonna be talking about the BOSS program.

老听众可能记得去年我们做过相关节目，这次Sassy再次加入我们讨论该项目，还有Sangbeta和MacGyver也将参与。

Now some of you longtime listeners might know from last year, we did an episode on this, and Sassy is rejoining us to talk about this program as well as Sangbeta and MacGyver.

首先，欢迎回到节目。

So, first off, welcome back to the show.

谢谢邀请我们。

Thanks for having us.

谢谢。

Thank you.

太好了。

Great.

嗯，是的，我经常采访很多开发者，而且节目听众中也有不少开发者。

And so, yeah, I guess, you know, I have a lot of I often interview a lot of developers and there are developer listeners on the show.

那么能否为去年没听过那期节目的听众简单介绍一下？

So maybe give us a bit of an overview just for anyone who maybe didn't hear, you know, the episode last year.

萨西，你愿意给我们做个最新进展的汇报吗？

Sassy, do you wanna just give us, you know, sort of an update on it?

这个项目到底是什么？

What what is this program?

然后我们可以聊聊桑贝塔和麦吉弗的背景故事。

And then we can kind of get into a little bit about, Sangbeta and MacGyver's background.

好的

Yeah.

我很乐意

I'd love to.

BOSS代表比特币开源软件，BOSS挑战是一个为期30天的技术编程练习系列，带你深入了解比特币协议的各个部分，而且设计得非常有趣且引人入胜。

So BOSS stands for Bitcoin Open Source Software, and the BOSS challenge is a thirty day series of technical programming exercises that take you through various parts of the Bitcoin protocol, and they do it in a way that's really fun and engaging.

如果你完成第一个月后感觉很棒想继续，我们提供延长两个月的选项。但最神奇的是它能让人展示技术能力，表明自己已准备好为比特币开源做贡献，同时有效过滤掉很多干扰因素——因为我们知道这确实非常困难。

Now, if you finish the first month and you had a really good time and you wanna keep going, we have options to extend it for an additional two months, but the magic of it is really in that it allows people to signal their technical ability and readiness to contribute to Bitcoin open source and do it in a way that cuts through a lot of the noise because we know that it's so, so difficult.

该项目完全免费参与

The program is completely free to participate.

由Chaincode Labs主办，向全球所有人开放

It's put on by Chaincode Labs, and it's open to everyone around the world.

太棒了

Fantastic.

那么，现在来听听你们的故事吧

And so, yeah, let's hear a little bit about, you guys.

那么，也许我们可以从你开始，Sangbeta。

So, maybe we'll start with you, Sangbeta.

好的。

Sure.

在参与比特币开源项目之前，剧透一下，我曾在Block的比特币交易团队工作。

So prior to working in Bitcoin open source, spoiler, I worked on Block's Bitcoin trading team.

所以虽然我仍在比特币领域工作，并且对比特币有广泛的了解，但我对协议开发或比特币基础知识确实知之甚少。

And so I was still working in Bitcoin, but and I was broadly familiar with working in Bitcoin, but I really didn't know a lot about, like, protocol development or Bitcoin fundamentals.

这就是我参加这个课程的主要动机。

And so that was the main motivation behind joining the course.

但我非常享受这个过程，以至于我坚持完成了全部三个月的课程。

But I really enjoyed it so much that I sort of kept going and persevering through the all three months.

而且，是的，我没想到最终会从事比特币开源工作。

And, yeah, I didn't expect to be working in Bitcoin open source.

刚开始时，我的目标只是了解更多关于比特币开源的内容。

When I started, the goal was just to learn more about Bitcoin open source.

不过，是的，我现在就在这里。

But, yeah, here I am.

就是这样。

There you go.

那么，MacGyver，也请你简单介绍一下自己。

And, MacGyver, tell us a bit about yourself also.

好的。

Yeah.

我在IT行业已有25年，担任过IT系统管理员和系统工程师。

So, been in IT for twenty five years as an IT admin system engineer.

还担任过工程经理和产品开发等职务。

Also an engineering manager, product development roles.

其实我关注并使用比特币已有数年，但从未积极参与过比特币的贡献。

So it was really something that I've been looking and use I've been using Bitcoin for, you know, several years, and I had not actively done any contributions into Bitcoin.

所以这次对我来说是个很好的机会，能真正深入基础知识学习，然后在此基础上继续发展。

So it was kind of a nice, you know, opportunity for me to really get to the fundamentals and learn and then, you know, take it from there.

嗯。

Yeah.

有意思。

Interesting.

确实如此。

And so yeah.

我是说，人们来自各行各业，有的是专业软件工程师，也有的是完全不相干领域转行过来的——我见过不少这样的人，他们就是铁了心要学习比特币开发，再难也硬着头皮上了。

I mean, people come from different kind of walks of life, whether that's, like, professionally being a software engineer or other people who just kind of I've seen other people in this journey and this in this in this industry who came from a totally unrelated field, and they wanted to learn, you know, Bitcoin development, and they just sort of did it anyway the hard way.

要不我们聊聊你的动机？

So, yeah, I guess maybe let's talk let's speak to let's hear a little bit of your, let's say, motivations.

对吧？

Right?

因为听彼得的意思，你其实已经算是在比特币领域工作了。

Because saying, Peter, it sounds like you were already even working.

要我说的话，你更想深入参与其中开源生态的部分？

You could I would say that counts as you were already working in Bitcoin, but actually you wanted to go really, you know, into more like the specifically open source elements of it.

也许你们想跟我们分享一下，参加这个项目并深入比特币开源领域的动机是什么。

So maybe you guys wanna tell us a little bit about your motivations for actually going through the program and actually wanting to get more deeply into the Bitcoin open source side of things.

当然。

Sure.

我认为为比特币开源做贡献是非常有意义的。

I think contributing to Bitcoin open source is very ethical.

在我看来，我对比特币的愿景是人们能将其用于日常支付。

My like, in my head, in my my vision for Bitcoin is that people use it for payments, like everyday payments.

而且我认为人们与金钱的关系具有很强的地域性和文化特性。

And I think I think, like, people's relationship with money is very local and cultural.

因此比特币开源真正提供了一个良好基础，可以在其上构建本地化的解决方案。

And so Bitcoin open source really allows, like, a good foundation for that to build local solutions on top of that.

所以我觉得为比特币开源做贡献确实有助于实现这个目标。

So I think contributing to Bitcoin open source really helps with that.

同时，这对我来说也是个令人兴奋的全新技术挑战。

And also, it's like an awesome new technical challenge that I'm personally excited for.

酷。

Cool.

麦吉弗呢？

And MacGyver?

是啊。

Yeah.

所以

So

我在美国企业界工作过，为几家不同的初创公司效力，直到上一段职业生涯时，我意识到那些工作并不如我期望的那样有意义。

I've worked in, you know, corporate America for a few different startups, and I kinda got to the point where in my last chapter, it just the work wasn't as meaningful as I wanted it to be.

就像桑维塔说的，我在寻找一个回馈社会的机会。

Like Sanvita said, I was looking for an opportunity to give back.

我寻找了好几年，去年看到BOSS项目的社交媒体帖子时，它真的触动了我。

I've been looking for a few years, and I saw the social media post last year on the BOSS program, and it just it kinda spoke to me.

这简直好得让人难以置信。

It seemed almost too good to be true.

这就像是一个免费获得训练营并真正开始的机会，所以我直接报名了，剩下的就是历史了。

It's like a free opportunity to get a boot camp and really get started, and so I just signed up, and the rest is history.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为人们加入比特币开源的首要原因，是能够从事真正具有影响力、被全球无数人使用的善举工作——谁知道你的代码会运行多久，因为它是开源的。

I I think probably the number one reason why people come to Bitcoin open source is the ability to do work that's truly impactful, work that is used by countless people across the globe for goodness, who knows how long your code is gonna be running because it's open source.

我想我们许多人在比特币领域都是被使命驱动的。

And I think that so many of us are just so mission driven in Bitcoin.

我们都相信金融自由。

We all believe in financial freedom.

我们都相信金融主权，这创造了一个非常独特的局面。

We all believe in financial sovereignty, and that creates a really unique landscape.

正如Sangeeta所说，你能接触到职业生涯中最好、最具挑战性的问题，并与最优秀的人共事。

It you get to work on, like Sangeeta said, some of the best, most challenging problems with, honestly, some of the best people you will work with in your career.

那么跟我们聊聊参加这个项目的经历吧。

So talk talk to us a little bit about the experience of going through the program.

你在那里的体验是怎样的？

What what was your experience there doing that?

是的。

Yeah.

就我个人而言，我发现参加在线课程时容易缺乏动力，但Chaincode Boss项目设计得像游戏一样，Chaincode团队为项目流畅运行投入了大量心血。

Personally, I find going through online courses, they struggle with motivation, but the Chaincode Boss program is sort of gamified, and a lot of effort has been put in by the folks at Chaincode to run this program so seamlessly.

我说的游戏化是指你需要逐步解锁挑战任务。

What I mean by it being gamified is that you sort of have to unlock the challenges.

所以你会被激励尽快完成当前挑战以解锁下一个。

So you you're incentivized to finish the challenges as quickly as possible to unlock the next one.

我认为这让我保持了高度积极性。

And so I think that kept me really motivated.

另一个很有帮助的因素是同伴学习机制。

Another thing that was really helpful was the aspect of peer learning.

我发现Discord里的每个人都特别乐于助人，这也激发了我帮助他人的热情。

Everyone I find, like in the Discords, was really keen to help, which made me keen to help other folks as well.

大家撰写的这些精彩文档让我从他们的经验中受益匪浅。

People produce these amazing docs that I learned from about their experiences.

整个项目过程中，社区氛围真的非常棒。

So everyone like, the community was really great through the program.

嗯。

Yeah.

麦加维？

McGarvey?

对。

Yeah.

我完全赞同这个观点。

I I would second that.

我也非常喜欢课程体系的结构设计。

I really enjoyed the kind of the structure of the curriculum as well.

对于像我这样比特币开发经验不足的人来说，这种结构能帮助你在早期打好基础。

I think it helps you build the foundation early for me coming in with little Bitcoin development experience.

这就像从消防水带里喝水一样，但你知道，我真的很享受这个过程。

It was like drinking from a fire hose, but you know, really enjoyed it.

我认为结构化的游戏化学习方式对我帮助很大。

I think the structured gamified learning really helped me.

我就是这样争强好胜且充满动力。

I'm competitive and motivated like that.

所以我喜欢解谜和挑战。

So I enjoyed the puzzle, the challenge.

到了后期，你基本上可以自由选择想做的项目，接触不同的项目和项目负责人，还能听到其他开源开发者的故事。

And then towards the end, you get to be kind of in a you get to work on what you want to work on, and you get exposed to different projects and project leads and kinda get to hear the stories of other open source developers.

这样你就能真正接触到正在一线工作的人，为整个项目画上圆满的句号。

So you actually get in contact with people who are doing the work now, and it's just a really nice kinda wrap up to the entire program.

是的。

Yeah.

我要说明今年的挑战任务已经更新了，所以如果往届学员想再来参加，我们非常欢迎。

I will say that the challenges have been refreshed this year, so if anyone joined us in a previous year and wants to do it again, you're more than welcome to come.

我们开玩笑说这是比特币达人秀，虽然有点搞笑，但事实确实如此。

And we almost joke that this is Bitcoin's got talent, which is kind of funny, but it really is.

关键在于参与其中，展示你的工作能力和贡献意愿，并尽可能发挥你的潜力。

It's about showing up, demonstrating your ability to do the work, to contribute, and really taking it as far as you can go.

如果你认真对待，别人也会认真对待你，这正是开源的魅力所在。

And if you're serious about it, you will be taken seriously, and that's kind of the beauty of open source.

我我我是说，对某些人，也许是很多人来说，最终目标是能在这个领域专业工作，你能稍微介绍一下具体形式吗？

And I I I mean, for for some, maybe for many, the goal is to eventually end up working professionally in the space, and maybe you can outline a little bit on, you know, what does that look like?

是获得赞助，还是直接作为开发者在某个项目中工作？

Is that being sponsored, or is that being going and directly working as a developer in one of these projects?

给我们详细讲讲这方面的情况。

Talk talk to us a little bit a bit about that.

是的。

Yes.

对大多数人来说，目标都是获得资金支持。

So, for for most, it's gonna be to get funding.

2024年，已有8人完成全额资助的比特币开源新职业计划。

Now in 2024, eight people left the program fully funded, New Careers in Bitcoin open source.

去年这个数字大约是10人，而且这还不包括后来创办公司或在比特币行业就业的人员。

Last year, that was about 10, and that actually doesn't include the people that go on to start companies or get jobs in the Bitcoin industry.

我们网站上只展示在比特币开源领域工作的人员，但大体情况就是这样，比例确实很小。

We we we only put the people who work in Bitcoin open source on the website, but that's generally what it looks like, and it's it's a very small percentage.

真正能完成计划的都是顶尖人才，但两年内能培养出近20人，这在我看来已经非常了不起。

It really is the top performers that make it through the program, but the fact that it can crank out almost 20 in the past two years is is pretty incredible to me.

那么，能否请你具体解释一下这个问题？

So, actually, do you wanna just explain a bit about that?

无意贬低这个计划，但听起来似乎培养出的开发者数量并不多？

Because it's, you know, not to diminish, you know, the program at all, but doesn't it sound like there's there's not a lot of, you know, developers there coming through?

这是否单纯因为技术难度太高，还是说需要找到技能水平达标的人才？

Is it just a fact is it just a fact is it just a function of, you know, the technical difficulty of it or just kind of getting people, you know, at the who are at the right level, like the skill level?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你确实需要那两种特质的独特结合。

You really need that unique combination of exactly those two things.

技术能力是显而易见的，你需要达标，真正清楚自己在做什么，但另一个常被忽视的方面是你的准备状态。

So technical ability, that's obvious, you need to be up to par, really need to know what you're doing, but another aspect that isn't often talked about is your readiness.

你需要处于人生的某个阶段，准备好投入一、二、三个月的工作，然后实现职业转型。

You need to be at a point in your life where you're ready to put in the work for one, two, three months and then make that career change.

仅仅因为你进入项目时没有获得资助，并不意味着你今年晚些时候不会获得资助。

Just because you come into the program and you don't leave with funding doesn't mean you're not going to get funded later in the year.

也不意味着如果你再试一次，就不会获得资助。

Doesn't mean if you do it again, you're not going get funded.

这只说明时机未到，而这对每个人来说都不同。

It just means this wasn't the right timing, and that's going to be different for everybody.

有些参与项目的人，他们还有全职工作。

Some people who come into the program, they have full time jobs.

他们不会有像那些没有全职工作的人或项目里的学生那么多时间。

They're not going to have as much time as somebody who doesn't have a full time job or somebody you know, maybe we have students in the program.

这也取决于你的家庭责任。

It depends on also your family obligations.

所以我们尽量保持灵活性，但这个项目真正想要吸引的是那些同时具备技术能力且生活状态已准备好的人。

So we try to keep it flexible, but this is really meant to capture those people at that really unique intersection of having the technical ability and being at a point in their lives where they are ready.

那么让我们听听麦吉弗和桑维塔的看法。

So let's hear that from MacGyver and Sangvita.

你们当时的想法是什么？比如说，你们确实有那一到三个月的时间可以全身心投入这个项目吗？

What was your perspective there going into it that you had, let's say, that one to three months of time that you could really devote to this?

好的。

Yeah.

我先说吧。

I'll go first.

就像我一开始说的，我当时正想进入这个领域。

I like I said, would at the beginning, I I was looking to get into the space.

所以我当时的心态是'除非你们赶我走，否则我会全力以赴'。

So I kinda went into it with a you're gonna have kick me out, because I'm gonna give everything I have.

有点像是'你打算怎么...'

Kind of You're like how

一开始就超级投入。

super committed going in.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

所以，我提前跟家人打过招呼。

So, yeah, I I told my family.

我有几个十几岁的孩子。

I have, you know, teenage kids.

我当时就说'嘿'。

I was like, hey.

我要埋头苦干，因为我有一份全职工作，还要养家糊口。

I'm gonna be heads down, because I have a full time job, you know, supporting them as well.

所以我就想，我要尽可能专注，确保自己能成功完成这个项目。

So I was like, I'm gonna be heads down as much as I can to, you know, make sure I succeed at this.

有些周我投入了20到25个小时，但也有其他周就没那么紧张。

There were there were weeks I put in, you know, twenty, twenty five hours, but there were other weeks that it was not as bad.

据我所知，有些参加项目的人每周投入还不到10小时。

So it was other people I know probably went to the program and put in less than 10.

这真的取决于你的背景，以及你入行时掌握的技能。

So it really just depends on your background and kind of, you know, what your, you know, skills are going in.

但这是个注重实际成果的课程体系。

But it's a proof of work curriculum.

只要你按时完成作业，我认为你就能坚持到最后。

So if you if you show up and you do the work, I think you can make it to the end.

桑贝塔？

Sangbeta?

我没有孩子，但当时也有一份全职工作。

I don't have any kids, but I also did have a full time job going in.

所以我大部分空闲时间都花在这上面，但我很乐意投入这些时间，因为从这个项目中学到了很多。

So a lot of my free time was spent doing this, but I was very happy to spend spend the time doing it because I learned so much from the program.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Great.

那么你是如何——我想对比一下这个有一定结构性的项目，和比如说自主学习之间的区别。

And how did you I guess, contrasting this program that has, you know, some has some structure to it versus, let's say, self directed learning.

对吧？

Right?

就像在你心里，你也得做这种对比，因为理论上你本可以说：

Like, in your mind, you have to contrast that too because you could like, theoretically, you could have just said, hey.

我就直接去参与比特币开源项目的PR提交，用这种艰难的方式自学。

I'm just gonna, you know, go through and, get just go make PRs on Bitcoin open source projects and just try to sort of do it the hard way.

在你看来，选择这个结构化课程与直接开始在现有的比特币开源项目上提交PR并希望以此获得赞助，这两者之间有什么区别？

What was it what was the difference in your mind of going for this structured program as opposed to just sort of jumping straight into making PRs on a existing open source Bitcoin project and hoping to get sponsored that way?

我认为，通过结构化课程节省的时间量级是呈指数级提升的，在我看来。

I think the amount of time, I think, that you save by having a structured curriculum is, you know, orders of magnitude better, in my opinion.

我认为你能学会如何做出贡献。

I think you learn how to make contributions.

这有点像涵盖了全部范围。

It's kind of like the full gamut.

所以我觉得这是个很棒的主意。

So I think it's a great idea.

如果你对此感兴趣，我绝对会强烈推荐。

If you're interested at all, I would definitely highly recommend it.

最坏的情况也不过是学到很多东西。

The worst thing you could do is learn a lot.

我觉得很难知道该从哪里开始。

I think it's difficult to know just where to start.

比如，什么是嗯。

Like, what are Mhmm.

比如，并非所有项目都准备好接纳新人。

Like, not all projects are ready to accept new, like, newer folks.

我认为有些仓库适合初次开发者，但通常需要有人告诉你，或者你尝试很多次后才能找到合适的。

I think there's repositories that are good for first time developers and you don't really know of this until someone tells you about it or or you you knock on a lot of doors and then you find the right one.

但通过这个项目，确实能帮你集中获取所有这些信息。

But going through the program definitely, like, funnels all of that information for you.

所以在进行开源开发之前，你已经打下了很好的基础，不仅了解比特币基础知识，还知道如何组织PR、提交的样子，以及可能选择贡献的仓库。

So you kind of before you go in and do open source development, you have a really good foundation of, like, what you need to know, not only about Bitcoin fundamentals, but also how you might structure your PR or how a commit looks like or what repository you might decide to contribute in.

所以这些有点像，懂的人自然懂，而通过这个项目你肯定能弄清楚这些。

So those are a bit like, if you know, you know, and you definitely find those things out in the program.

是的。

Yeah.

另外，Satsi，我很想听听你的看法。

And, Satsi, I'm curious to hear your perspective.

当然，我知道你之前在行业里工作过，应该是在Casa，而且你在这个圈子里已经待了一段时间。

Of course, I know you have worked in the industry previously at, Casa, I believe, and you've been, you know, you've been around the industry.

你在这个行业已经工作相当久了。

You've been working in this industry for a while.

对此你有什么看法？

How, what are your thoughts on that?

是啊。

Yeah.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我有很多想法。

I have so many thoughts.

首先，参与开源工作与传统行业工作完全不同。

So first, working in open source is just a completely different paradigm to working in industry.

你必须主动出击，并且对自己的追求能力充满信心。

It's you have to be a self starter, and you have to be really confident in your ability to pursue something.

你必须适应没有那种来自同事共同解决问题或产品经理要求你在截止日期前完成的支持体系，因为在开源世界里情况完全不同。

And you have to be okay with, like, not really having the same kind of support system that you have from maybe coworkers working on the same problem and a product manager telling you, you gotta ship this by a deadline, because that it doesn't it doesn't happen like that in open source.

让我大开眼界的经历是第一次向比特币核心提交真正的PR请求，包含大量实际代码时，它被批得体无完肤。

One eye opener experience for me was the first time I submitted a real PR request to a real pull request to Bitcoin Core with actual big chunks of code, and it was torn apart.

代码被撕得粉碎，我当时感到非常沮丧。

It was shredded to pieces, and I felt so discouraged.

以我现在对比特币开源项目的了解，那其实意味着有人在认真关注。

Knowing what I know now about Bitcoin open source, that means someone cared.

这意味着有人花时间审阅了它。

That means somebody took the time to review it.

实际上，完全无人问津的情况更糟。

It's actually worse for it to not get any eyes on it at all.

因此这些年在开源领域，我学会了相信自己的内在指南针，在没有行业工作时那种程度的指导下继续前行。

And so over the years, being in an open source, I've learned to kind of trust my own internal compass and kind of move without the same level of guidance that I had been working under in industry.

是的。

Yeah.

那么也许可以解释一下，这个BOSS项目对你们来说产生了哪些具体成果。

And so maybe just to, explain what were some of the outcomes of, this, BOSS program for you guys.

也许你想详细说说这个，以及你们现在正在做的工作。

Maybe you wanna explain a bit about that and what you're working on now.

哦，糟糕。

Oh, shit.

好的。

Okay.

我可以先说。

I I can go first.

是的。

Yeah.

我现在在Blockstream公司从事Core Lightning的开发工作。

Right now, I am working at at Blockstream on Core Lightning.

某种程度上我是偶然进入这个领域的。

So I kind of fell into it by chance.

这就像是个机会。

It was like opportunity.

此外，我当时正在通过开源项目工作。

And also, I was working on on on through the open source program.

那时我正在找工作，Traincode的Jonas帮我联系到了Core Lightning的负责人Rusty。

So I was looking for jobs at the time, and Jonas from Traincode was able to connect me to Rusty, who who leads Core Lightning.

事情就这样自然而然地发生了。

And it's sort of just happened from there.

我没想到会这样，但很高兴能来到这里。

I did not expect it to happen, but I'm very glad to be here.

在项目结束时，我选择的一个自主项目是构建一个静默支付索引器。

At the end of the program, one of the kind of the self directed projects that I picked was to build a silent payments indexer.

这很自然地让我认识了Jonas，并获得了与协议开发者交流的推荐。

So, that kinda naturally, led itself to me meeting, Jonas and getting a recommendation to talk to the protocol developer.

我与他们见面后，调研了过去三四年围绕静默支付开发的生态系统，确实发现了一个机会，可以将我的产品管理领导能力与推动技术落地相结合——虽然技术正在发展，但不同项目间缺乏协调努力。

So I met with them, kinda surveyed the ecosystem of what's been developed against silent payments for the last three, four years, and really saw an opportunity to kind of marry my skills of, you know, kind of product management leadership, trying to promote adoption of something that's technically, like, moving forward, but not really a lot of coordinated effort between different projects.

所以这是那种情况，我能够介入，提交计划给几个组织寻求资金，然后执行那个计划。

So it was one of those things where I was able to kinda, like, come in, you know, submit a plan to a couple organizations to seek funding and then, you know, execute that plan.

所以这就是我现在所处的位置。

So that's, that's kind of where I'm at now.

我已经进行了大约六个月。

I'm about six months into that.

太棒了。

Excellent.

那么申请资助的过程是怎样的呢？

And so what was it like, you know, applying for grants?

我没有申请过任何资助，因为我申请的是工作。

I haven't applied for any grants because I applied for the job.

所以这个问题可能更适合你来回答。

So maybe this is a better question for you.

好的。

Okay.

是的

Yeah.

也许这个问题更适合你，麦吉弗

Maybe it's better for you, MacGyver.

对

Yeah.

好的

Okay.

没问题

No problem.

是的

Yeah.

我基本上把它当作创建产品路线图的过程，然后向领导团队推销我的想法，试图获得他们对某个项目的支持

So I kinda, like, took it as a almost like creating, like, a product road map, and then pitching my idea to, like, a leadership team to try to get buy in for something.

这就是我的处理方式

So that was kinda how I approached it.

我的资助项目是，你知道的，就是成为无声支付的引导者，并推动它被采用。

So my my grant is, you know, to be, like, the shepherd of silent payments and, like, push it forward to adoption.

这就是我正在做的事情。

So that's kinda what I'm doing.

所以我并不管理任何人。

So I'm not managing anyone.

我也不是在开发什么具体的东西。

I'm not, you know, developing anything specific.

我主要是尝试协调一些聚会活动。

I really try to coordinate, you know, meetups.

我正在努力构建测试之类的东西，为无声支付服务，然后在有漏洞的地方进行贡献。

I'm trying to work on, like, building tests, things like that for, silent payments, and then contributing wherever there's holes.

这就是我正在做的工作。

So that's that's kinda what I'm doing.

不过，是的，我的资助申请流程就是制定那个计划，然后与潜在的资助机构会面。

But, yeah, my grant proposal process was, you know, develop that plan, and then meet with, you know, prospective grant organizations.

我进行了两次一对一会议，其中一次基本上就是基于我自己整理的那份文件进行的。

I had two one on one meetings, and then one was just, you know, I guess, full it was based off of just the, the document itself that I put together.

所以对我来说，事情基本上就是这样一步步推进的。

So that's that's kinda how everything came together for me.

本期节目由CoinKite赞助播出，他们制造了我最喜爱的比特币硬件钱包——Coldcard Q。

This episode is brought to you by CoinKite, the makers of my favorite Bitcoin hardware wallet, the cold card Q.

有些人认为自我托管太难了，但这实际上是关于为你的比特币财富负责，并理解自我托管能带给你真正的自由感。

Now some people think self custody is too hard, but it's really about taking responsibility for your Bitcoin wealth and understanding that self custody gives you a true feeling of liberty.

Coldcard Q配备全键盘和大屏幕，内置两个安全元件并支持真正的物理隔离，可通过二维码实现从种子生成到交易签名的完全离线操作。

The Coldcard Q has a full keyboard and big screen, it's got two secure elements and a true air gap allowing you to go fully air gapped using QR codes from seed generation to transaction signing.

该设备可使用三节AAA电池供电，因此甚至无需插入电源插座。

You can power the device using three triple a batteries so you don't even have to plug it into the wall for power.

您可以轻松将其与PC端的Sparrow钱包或移动端的Nunchuck配合使用，并根据需要调整安全级别和操作复杂度。

You can easily use it with Sparrow Wallet for PC or Nunchuck on mobile and you can dial it into the right level of security and complexity that you choose.

若需要简单配置，只需使用12个单词助记词和单签名方案即可。

If you want a simple setup just use 12 words and single signature.

如果你想要密码短语，也很简单。

If you want passphrases easy.

如果你想添加多重签名或共同签名功能，这些也都支持。

If you want to add multisig or co signing features you've got those too.

请访问coinkite.com，使用优惠码LAVERRA可享受冷卡或其他设备9折优惠，立即升级你的自主保管方案。

So go to coinkite.com use code LAVERRA to get 10% off on your cold card or other devices and level up your self custody today.

是啊，这确实提供了那种，我想，就像Satsi提到的，这种自主创业的理念——在这种情况下，如果你真的想申请资助来开展某个特定项目，就必须主动承担起来，而不是像在公司里工作那样，别人直接告诉你‘嘿’该做什么。

Yeah interesting it does give that, I think, like Satsi mentioned, this kind of self starter idea that you really have to in this case, if you're really out there trying to find a grant to get work to work on a particular project, have to sort of take that on for yourself as opposed to if you're working in a company and you're just told, hey.

这是新的优先事项吗？

Is the this is the new priority.

去着手处理这件事吧。

Go get to work on that.

我确实有些要补充的。

I do have something to add there.

你知道，自从研究无声支付以来，我遇到了好几位把这当作业余兴趣项目的开发者。

You know, since working, in silent payments, I've met several developers who were doing this as a hobby side project.

我是说，他们本身有开发者的全职工作，但依然开发出了很棒的解决方案。

I mean, they had full time jobs as developers, and, you know, they developed good solutions.

然后我就建议他们说，

And I, you know, recommended to them, hey.

我觉得你们应该尝试全职投入这个领域。

I think you guys should try to pursue this full time.

所以我一直在积极推广这个流程，鼓励人们去申请资助金，因为我觉得他们做的工作非常出色。

So I've kind of been evangelical about the process and trying to get people to go out and apply for grants to get funding because I think they're doing great work.

他们只是不知道如何跨越那道鸿沟，而我正好有相关经验——我审阅过一些人的资助申请，尝试给他们提供建议和思路。

They just don't know how to kinda cross that chasm, and that's something that, you know, I've had the experience doing is I've reviewed some of their grant applications and tried to kind of give them some, ideas, things like that.

说到这个，其实对某些人来说，靠资助金生活可能会带来一些不确定性。

And while we're on that actually, for some, there can be a bit of uncertainty around living off of grants.

对吧。

Right.

那人们是怎么应对这种情况的呢？

Is that how do people manage that?

是不是说他们得先确保有足够的积蓄，才能安心走这条申请资助的路？

Is that like, you know, they've already gotta make sure they've got enough savings so that they feel comfortable trying to go down this pathway with grants?

因为问题是有些资助可能不会持续很长时间。

Because the thing is some of these grants may not necessarily be for a long time.

那人们是怎么应对这种情况的呢？

And so how do people manage that?

大家是怎么处理这个问题的？

How do people deal with that?

对。

Yeah.

这个问题我可以回答。

I can take that.

就我个人而言，我当时做了这个决定，是因为我很有信心——坚信只要我能证明工作价值、展现个人能力，自然会有更多资助机会找上门来，或者通过建立人脉关系、做好本职工作，总能在资助用尽时找到立足之地。

I mean, me personally, I I kinda made the decision that, you know, I was pretty confident, had high conviction that if I, demonstrated the work, prove a value in what I can bring, that, you know, more grants would find their way, or I could kinda make enough connections and relationships and do a good job that I could, you know, find my place, I guess, if the grants ran out.

这就是我当时采取的策略。

So that's that was kinda my approach.

从我过去七八个月的亲身经历来看，似乎人们就是这样起步的。

It seems almost like that's how people start just from my experience in the, you know, seven, eight months that I've been kind of really in touch with what's going on.

确实，一旦你在这个行业建立了人脉、认识很多人，就更容易找到不同的机会。

It does seem as though once you're kinda, like, connected and know a lot of people in the industry, it's probably easier to fall in different places.

所以我大概就是抱着这种'人生只有一次'的心态去尝试了。

So I kinda YOLOed on that idea, I guess.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

但我觉得你说得对。

But I think you're right.

就像一旦你在行业里认识了一些人，自然就会接触到更多圈内人士

Like, once you sort of know a few people in the industry, you tend to just meet a lot of other people in

高需求领域。

the high demand.

所以我认为，你知道的，真正有实力且踏实做事的人才在哪里都很抢手，对吧，确实如此。

So I think, you know, qualified people that show up and do the work is in high demand, right, everywhere Yeah.

无论是在商业领域还是开源界。

In business and in open source.

是的。

Yeah.

那我们回到你身上，Sangbir。

So let's go back to you, Sangbir.

给我们讲讲，现在你在为Core Lightning做贡献的情况吧。

Tell us a little bit about, nowadays, you're working you're contributing on Core Lightning.

和之前相比有什么不同？

How does that compare to before?

我觉得这是非常不同的。

I think it's it's very different.

首先，参与开源工作带来的社区互动体验是截然不同的。

Firstly, the community engagement that you get working in open source is completely different.

你能获得大量反馈。

You get so much feed.

这个领域有许多充满热情的人在使用你的软件，并且非常乐于提供反馈。

There's so many passionate people in the space that are using your software and are so passionate to just give feedback.

这真是太棒了。

It is awesome.

还有许多其他开源开发者也在这一领域工作。

There are so many other open source developers also working in the space.

能与这么多优秀的人共事真的很棒。

So that has just been great to work with all these awesome people.

同时有太多可以做的事情，因为你可以真正选择自己想做的方向，然后全力以赴。

There's also just so much to work on because there's, you can really pick what you want to work on and just go nuts.

能够拥有如此多的自主权和自由来选择工作内容，这种感觉真的非常棒。

So that has been just really awesome to just have so much agency and freedom to be able to work on what you want to work.

是啊。

Yeah.

有意思。

Interesting.

你提到了来自软件用户的反馈。

You mentioned around, like, feedback from people, like, from users of the software.

你是否觉得可以这么说，你获得的反馈更直接，因为它是来自产品的真实用户，

Do you do you feel like it's more put it this way, is it more direct feedback that you're getting because it's, like, from the real user of the prod of,

你知道，

you know,

比如说，Core Lightning的用户相比Block或Cash App的用户，后者可能都通过客服渠道汇总，

let's say, Core Lightning compared to a block user or a Cash App user where maybe it's all getting funneled through, like, customer support

之类的？

and things?

我想是的。

I guess so.

对。

Yeah.

所以在Cash App里，你知道的，明显存在一个漏斗流程。

So at Cash App, you know, there's there's obviously a funnel.

我们更像是后端人员，所以无法直接与客户打交道。

We're also kind of, like, in the back end, so we don't get to deal with the customers directly.

在Core Lightning中，你同时也是用户。

In Core Lightning, You are also the user.

比如我现在运行自己的节点，但其他开发者也都运行着他们的节点，还有更广泛的社区成员——比如Discord和Telegram上的用户，他们也在更新节点、运行新软件、提供反馈和创建问题。

Like, run my own node now, but there's also all all the other developers also run their nodes, and then there's the broader community, like, on Discord and Telegram who are also, you know, updating their nodes and running the new software and giving feedback and creating issues.

而且，能直接和这些人互动真的很棒，太棒了。

And, it's just awesome, awesome to be able to interact with these folks directly.

明白了。

Gotcha.

那么Satsi，回到你身上，当你评估某人能否完成这项任务时，你在寻找哪些技能？

And so maybe back to you Satsi, when you're evaluating, if someone can do this task, what are the skills you're looking for?

是某种思维方式的能力吗？

What are the, is it a mindset ability?

他在那里寻找什么？

What is he looking for there?

是的，我的意思是，实际上这涵盖了所有方面。

Yeah, I mean, really is it's everything.

显而易见的基础要求是你的技术能力要达到能够贡献的水平。

The easy stuff is obviously is your technical ability, at a point where you're ready to contribute.

我知道其中一些代码库是用Rust编写的，可能有一定的学习曲线。

I know, like, some of these repositories are in Rust, which can kind of have a little bit of a learning curve.

另外一点是，我提到过的，你需要在最少指导下工作的能力，因为项目其他贡献者不想对你进行微观管理。

Another thing is, I mentioned, your ability to work with minimal guidance, because the other contributors on the project don't want to be micromanaging you and telling you what to do.

你必须能够主动发现问题、与其他用户交流，并保持高度积极性。

You really have to be able to identify issues and bugs and talk to other users and be really proactive.

最后我要特别提到的是，在如今大语言模型盛行的时代，我们发现有些过于依赖AI的贡献者，他们提交的PR代码、描述甚至回复都由AI生成。

And then the last thing I'll mention is, especially in the days where LLMs are now quite prevalent, something that we're seeing is really honest contributors leaning a little bit too heavily on them and opening PRs with code generated by LLMs and descriptions generated by LLMs, and their responses will be generated by LLMs.

虽然本意是好的，但这往往会给其他贡献者带来更多指导工作，他们花在审查代码上的时间可能比代码本身创造的价值还多。

While the sentiment is there, it often creates a lot more work on the contributors to kind of coach you through things, and they end up spending more time reviewing your code than what your code is actually adding value to.

我想说这大概就是资助者和其他贡献者在评估你是否准备好投身比特币开源项目时最看重的三点。

I would say those are probably the top three things that funders and other contributors look out for when they try to suss out if you are ready to make the leap into Bitcoin open source.

是啊。

Yeah.

现在AI生成的贡献似乎成了新现象，就像我记得最近有个讨论，就是关于AI生成内容的问题。

This whole AI generated contributions thing seems to be seems to be a new thing now that, you know, even, like I think there was, like, a recent bib where they were talking about, like, you know, how, you know, AI generated content.

当然，这可能有点刻薄——一方面AI确实应该帮助人们研究和学习。

And, obviously, this can be kind of mean, yeah, on one hand, yeah, AI should be useful to people to help them research and learn things.

但另一方面，如果被滥用或过度使用，就可能像是对现有成员时间的拒绝服务攻击。

But on the other hand, if it gets, let's say, misused or overused, then it can, like, be like a DOS on the time of people who are already there.

所以我觉得人们正在努力权衡如何正确使用AI，而不是完全否定它的所有用途。

So I think there's kind of people are trying to wrestle with, like, what is the right way to to use AI, but still not, like, totally, you know, disavow all uses of it.

嗯。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

而且这个问题确实很难评论，因为我自己也在用AI处理一些事情。

And it's so it's so tricky to comment on it too, because I use AI for stuff.

所以我并不是在劝大家不要用AI。

So, like, I'm not telling people not to do it.

只是就像你说的，当使用过度时，反而会引发更多问题而非帮助。

It's just, like you said, there is a point where it can be a little bit too much and and cause more problems, and it helps.

我在项目结束时学到的经验是：虽然我们最初讨论过这个问题，但提交解决方案的人必须考虑到——审阅者需要花费时间和精力来解析你创造的所有内容。

Something that I learned at the end of the program when meeting some of the project developers is I we think spoke about this a little bit at the beginning, but the responsibility of the person submitting the solution, know, the standard that you need to think about is, like, the person reviewing this has to take their time and know, put forth their energy to, like, parse through all of this stuff that you've created.

如果你用大语言模型生成大量混乱内容，然后直接甩给审阅者，就等于把全部解析负担转嫁给了对方。

So if you're using an LLM to generate a ton of mess, and then you just, like, throw that over the wall, now you're putting all of this requirement on the person reviewing that.

即使他们发现内容质量低劣、过于冗长或存在各种问题，仍不得不仔细思考才能给你实质性反馈。

And even if they see that it's kind of junky or it didn't really, like it's it's just too verbose, and it does all these crazy things, they have to, like, think through that to even give you, like, a a real response.

因此我恳请大家真正站在审阅者角度思考：你把他们置于怎样的处境？

So I would just would implore people to, like, really think of it from the reviewer's perspective and, like, what kind of, you know, position you're putting them in.

参与开源时最需要考量的就是给审阅者带来的工作量，要尽量让内容清晰简洁、易于理解。

That's really what you need to think about when contributing to open source is the tasks that you're putting on the reviewer and try to make it as clean and concise, easy to understand as possible.