精选：51区运作内幕

这里是iHeart播客节目。

This is an iHeart podcast.

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大家好，我是查克。带我去见你们的首领——外星人可能会说的其他台词。周六愉快。

Hello, everybody. Chuck here. Take me to your leader. Other things ETs might say. Happy Saturday.

本期节目名为《51区运作揭秘》，录制于2019年6月13日。我们将深入探讨，如常言道，全面剖析51区的方方面面。希望您听得尽兴。

This episode is called how Area 51 works. It's from 06/13/2019. And, you know, we get into it. We chop it up, as they say, all about Area 51. I hope you enjoy.

欢迎收听《你应该知道的事》，iheartradio出品。

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iheartradio.

播客时间。我是乔什·克拉克，那边是查尔斯·查克·布莱恩。还有我们的客座制作人迪伦再次登场。这里是《艰深冷知识》。

Podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there. And there's Dylan, the guest producer again. And this is It's Tough You Should Know.

播客啊。嗯哼。

The podcast. Mhmm.

关于查克的部分，内容相当烧脑。

About Chuck, some pretty heady stuff.

是啊。我发誓我们做过这期。等等，我们做过什么？罗斯威尔事件？

Yeah. I could've sworn we did this one. No. What did we do? Roswell?

不对。UFO特辑？没错。我们是在漫展之类的地方录的。对吧？

No. UFOs? Yes. We did that at a Comic Con or something. Right?

对。确实录过。还是现场版。但我一直对那期不太满意。

Yeah. We did. We did it live. I've never been satisfied with that one.

我...我同意。

I I agree.

也许我们改天会重做一次。

Maybe we'll redo it one day.

不，这样很好。这就是51区。我觉得这某种程度上涵盖了一些我没想到的领域，让我感到意外，这就是我想说的。

No. This is good. This this Area 51. I think this kinda covers some ground that I didn't think I was surprised by this is what I'm saying.

是啊，我也是。而且我猜最让你惊讶的——当然我也很惊讶——就是关于51区那些事情的真相可能平凡得令人难以置信。

Yeah. Me too. And I think the thing that I would wager you were surprised about, which I was definitely surprised about, was just how mundane the explanations for what goes on at Area 51 probably is.

没错。政府秘密研究。仅此而已。

Yeah. Secret government research. The end.

对。但那里很可能与逆向工程外星科技无关，世界统一政府的秘密席位——那个所谓的'十二人委员会'——大概也不在那儿。

Right. But it it probably doesn't have anything to do with reverse engineering alien technology and the secret seat of the one world government, the majestic twelve, probably isn't located there.

是啊，估计只有炸弹和飞机。

No. Probably just bombs and planes.

很可能。这很合理。如果真有什么阴谋的话，我觉得关于51区最靠谱的阴谋论是说它其实是个幌子，或者已经演变成了转移视线的工具，让人们忽略某个根本没人知道的神秘地点。

Probably. It makes sense. And the if there is a conspiracy going on, the one conspiracy theory I saw for Area 51 that made the most sense to me is that it's actually meant to be a distraction or has developed into a distraction for some other place that no one even knows about.

50区？

Area 50?

也许吧。对，有可能。希望他们不会这么直白，但也不是没可能。

Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Hopefully, they're not quite that on the nose, but it's possible.

好吧。那我们回溯到二战时期。嗯。首先，从地理位置上说，51区距离内华达州的拉斯维加斯不到100英里。

Alright. So let's go back in time, I guess, to World War two. Mhmm. And well, first of all, Area 51, just to geographically level set. It's less than a 100 miles from Las Vegas in Nevada.

内华达州南部。

South South Nevada.

对。占地600平方英里。如果你在谷歌地球上查看，基本上就是一个大型机场，周围有很多建筑物。

Yeah. It's 600 square miles. And it's basically, if you look at it on Google Earth, it looks like a, you know, a big airfield with a bunch of buildings.

所以我觉得整个禁飞区，包括试验场、空军基地等等这些设施

So the I think the whole restricted airspace that's part of like the test range and the air base and all of that stuff

没错。

Yeah.

51区所在的那片区域，我想大约有600平方英里。我很确定51区本身不超过60平方英里。

That air the Area 51 is located in, I think that's 600 square miles. I'm pretty sure Area 51 itself is no more than 60 square miles.

哦，没错。当然。只是那里并不是说600平方英里都是建筑物。

Oh, yeah. Sure. Just that like the it's not like there's 600 square miles of buildings.

对。根本不是。人们想象中的51区军事设施，其实只是内华达州广袤沙漠中的一小部分。

Right. It's just No. What yeah. The the installation that people think of as Area 51 is is part of a larger huge big chunk of the American Desert in Nevada.

没错。所以51区旁边就是你说的那个——内华达试验场。嗯。大约有十年或十一年时间，原子能委员会在那里进行地下和地上的核试验。嗯。基本上就是在研究如何更高效地大规模杀人。

Right. So next to Area 51 is what's what you're kinda talking about, the Nevada test site. Mhmm. And this is where for about ten or eleven years, the Atomic Energy Commission was setting off nuclear bombs underground, above ground Mhmm. And really sort of figuring out how to kill a lot of people very easily.

是的。

Right.

用你能想象到的最危险的方式。

And sort of the most dangerous way you could imagine.

对。从拉斯维加斯都能看到这些试验，距离大概80英里左右。他们会在核试验时举办派对，比如调制原子鸡尾酒、组织观爆派对之类的，人们就看着蘑菇云升起。

Yeah. And you could see this from Vegas, like they would have parties when they were doing the test because Vegas is like 80 miles away or something like that. And they would have like like atomic cocktails and viewing parties and stuff like that and people would watch them shoot off

炸弹。难以置信。

bombs. Unbelievable.

没错。但显然这是政府极感兴趣要阻止民众靠近的地区。不仅因为炸弹，还有辐射尘埃、放射性物质，更因为他们在测试极度敏感的军事装备和武器，比如原子弹。

Right. But this is obviously a part of the country that the government would be very interested in keeping people away from. Not just for the bombs, but because of the the fallout, the radiation, but also the fact that they're testing like super sensitive military equipment and weapons. Right? Like atomic bombs.

是啊。在此之前，这里只是片土地。有银矿、有牛群，嗯...还有野生动物。但1940年政府宣布：不，这归我们了，我们要在这里训练轰炸机飞行员。

Yeah. Like previous to this, it was just land. It was there were silver mines, there was cattle Mhmm. And wildlife. But then in 1940, the government said, no, this is ours, and we're gonna train bombers here.

对。

Right.

当时有个大型轰炸靶场，被划分成不同编号区域，51区的名字就是这么来的——虽然听起来很随意，但没人知道这个编号是否真有特殊含义。

And there was a big bombing range, and they were split into different numbers, and that's where the the number Area 51 comes from, which seems I don't know about arbitrary, but no one knows if it really matters why it was named Area 51.

确实。我看过老靶场地图，现在51区所在的位置当时就被标注为51号区域。

No. I think it was if you look at old bombing range maps, it just the the area where Area 51 is located was denoted as Area 51.

介于50和52之间吧，大概...呃...

Between 50 And 52 is probably Yeah. The

基本上，据我所见，就是这样了。

That's basically from what I saw that was it.

是的。关于二战还有另一部分故事，这次是在德国。就喷气式飞机而言，他们比我们领先一些。美国觉得这样可不行。

Yeah. So there's another part to this story with World War two and this is Germany. They were a bit ahead of us as far as jets go, jet airplanes. Yeah. The United States is like, this won't do it all.

于是我们决定加速喷气机的研发。1943年，洛克希德公司受命开发一款喷气式战斗机，可以使用英国的喷气发动机。他们指派工程师凯利·约翰逊组建团队。他召集了一支队伍，最终交付了P-80流星战斗机，这是最酷的老式喷气机之一。这些飞机看起来都棒极了。

So we're gonna get kinda put the gas on our jet development. And in 1943, Lockheed said was was tasked with developing a jet fighter plane. You can use a British jet engine, and they tasked engineer Kelly Johnson to get a team together. He got a team together, and they delivered the p 80 Shooting Star, which is one of the coolest looking old jets. All the all these planes are just amazing looking.

同意，非常非常酷。讨论新喷气机时，边聊边查是个好主意，因为它们大多看起来相当霸气。

Agreed. Very, very cool. It's a good idea when we talk about a new jet or something, go look it up as we're talking about because most of them are pretty boss looking.

是啊，我本来对飞机不感冒，但现在越来越着迷了。对吧？没错。

Yeah. I've never been a plane guy, but I'm getting more and more into it. Is that right? Yeah.

哪天我想做一期关于隐形轰炸机的节目。怎么样？

I wanna do a stealth bomber episode one day. Okay?

那可能是最酷的飞机了。

Possibly the coolest plane.

没错。凯利·约翰逊就是那样的人，他带领团队提前且低于预算地交付了美国首架喷气式飞机，这成就堪称巨大。他立刻成为了一位传奇工程师。洛克希德公司随后表示：'想继续保持这种速度吗？我们会给你一支精英工程师团队，所需资金和资源随你调配。'

Yeah. So Kelly Johnson was a that that just that right there delivering America's first jet on like under time and under budget was huge. And he became a legendary engineer right off the bat. And they I think Lockheed said, hey, how would you like to keep this pace up? We'll give you your team of elite engineers, whatever funding you need, whatever resources you need, just ask, you can have it.

你只需持续为我们快速研发。我们将让你站在航空研究的最前沿。于是凯利·约翰逊的团队后来被称为'臭鼬工厂'，这个在航空工程界如雷贯耳的名字，不仅因为他们研发了大量惊艳产品，还因这个充满神秘色彩的名字。据我所知，他们也是最早实践敏捷项目管理的团队。

And you just keep developing stuff really quickly for us. And we will put you at the cutting edge of aviation research. And so Kelly Johnson and his team eventually became known as the the Skunk Works, which is legendary in aviation engineering because they developed a whole bunch of really cool stuff. But also they had a pretty great name too that was fairly intriguing. But they were the first ones to kind of basically develop agile project management from what I understand.

是的。这一切都始于被称为'一号基地'的伯班克设施，位于洛杉矶郊区。但在1954年，他们意识到：'我们现在需要一架侦察机，中情局想要侦察机。'

Yeah. And this was all out of the what was known as Site 1, which was in Burbank, California. Just sort of a suburb of LA. But then in 1954, they said that you know what we need now is a spy plane. The CIA wants a spy plane.

我们需要能避开雷达侦测、拍摄苏联军事基地和导弹设施的飞行器。

We want something that can fly above radar and photograph Soviet military bases, missile installations.

嗯。

Mhmm.

既然我们有给所有项目命名的传统，就叫它'水星计划'吧。正是在这个项目中，约翰逊和他的臭鼬工厂团队研发出了U-2侦察机。

We're gonna name it because we name everything. Project Aquatone. And that's where Johnson and his team developed the U two, the Skunk Works team.

对。

Right.

但他们无法再在1号基地进行这项任务了，因为显然这必须极度保密，毕竟这是架间谍飞机。所以他们需要另寻他处，于是所有线索都指向了内华达州的这个试验场。

But they couldn't do this at Site 1 anymore because it had to be super super secret, obviously, because it was a spy plane. So they needed a different place and that's where that sort of all converges onto this testing site in Nevada.

没错。凯利·约翰逊、中情局官员理查德·比塞尔和几名飞行员开始秘密物色研发基地。他们去考察了老内华达试验场，尤其被一个叫格鲁姆湖的干盐湖吸引。有位飞行员回忆说，他们甚至用16磅铅球砸地测试土壤硬度。

Yeah. Kelly Johnson, CIA officer named Richard Bissell, and a couple of pilots started scouting locations for where they could develop this in super super secret. And they they went to look at the old Nevada test range. And specifically, the thing that attracted them was a dry salt lake called Groom Lake. And one of the pilots recounted taking some like 16 pound shot put balls and dropping them on the ground to see just how sandy the ground was.

他说地面像桌面一样坚硬。那个干涸的湖床确实如此。他们觉得这地方可行。选址原因不止是湖床硬如混凝土，更因为该区域本就禁止公众进入。

And it he said it was solid as a tabletop. This lake was, the dry lake. Yeah. They're like, this will probably do. And there's a lot of reasons why it would do, not just because there was a dry lake bed that was as hard as concrete, but because it was in an area that was already off limits to the public.

领空本就受限，地处偏远，两座山脉将试验场遮蔽得严严实实。后来被称为51区的这片区域，简直是绝密的绝佳间谍飞机研发基地。于是中情局和臭鼬工厂团队拍板：就这儿了。

Airspace was already restricted. It was remote. There are two mountain ranges that shield the test site from view. So this area, what became known as Area 51, was just perfect for developing a super secret spy plane in super secret. And so the CIA and the Skunk Works team said, this will do.

咱们接管这地方吧。

Let's take this place over.

我有没有跟你说过，我当公关时干过最带劲的事？

Did I ever tell you about one of the most fun things I ever got to do as a PA?

啥？等等...你该不会要说被埃里克·埃斯特拉达逮捕那事儿吧？

What? Wait. Didn't weren't you arrested by Eric Estrada? Is that what you're gonna say?

哦，不。那可是前十名。好吧。我们曾在干涸的湖床上拍摄汽车场景

Oh, no. That's top 10. Okay. We did a car shoot on a dry lake bed

哦，是吗？

Oh, yeah?

在死亡谷。

In Death Valley.

不错。

Nice.

他们安排了一长排汽车，所有车辆以完美的同步性行驶。

And they had a, like, a big huge line of cars in a row, all driving in perfect synchronicity.

嗯。

Mhmm.

导演不满意，他们希望所有尘土都在车后。他却说，我要尘土在车前。于是副导演跑去拿了辆野马的钥匙扔给我，说，开那辆野马以最快速度冲到他们前方100英尺处，甩尾漂移、转圈什么的。太棒了。我当时想，让我来？

And the director wasn't happy, they were like, we want all the dust is behind them. He went, I want dust in front of them. So the AD ran and grabbed the keys to a Mustang, threw them to me, and he said, get in that Mustang and drive a 100 feet in front of them as fast as you can fishtailing and doing donuts and stuff. Awesome. I was like, me?

是啊，老兄。太有意思了。因为是干涸的湖床，完全不用担心撞到东西或者翻车。

Yeah. Oh, man. It was so much fun. Because it's a dry lake bed. It's like there's just no fear of hitting anything or flipping.

你可以随心所欲地驾驶，感觉棒极了。

Like, you could just do whatever you wanted. It was wonderful.

真酷。

That's cool.

真的特别好玩。

It was so much fun.

你没撞到长耳大野兔之类的东西吧？

Did you didn't hit a jackrabbit or anything, did you?

就几只而已。不，没事的。那是...

Just a couple. No. It was fine. It was it was a

非常有趣。那么最后...

lot of fun. So what was the last

你刚才说什么？

thing you said?

超级机密？我最后说的是，我在谈论51区对于研发超级机密间谍飞机来说有多么完美。

Super secret? The last thing I well, I was talking about how amazingly perfect Area 51 is for developing a super secret spy plane.

没错。所以他们称之为‘天堂牧场’。那里的当地人因为原子弹试验已经习以为常了。这反而成了优势，首先那里地处偏远，即便是附近的社区，离得足够近的那些，也没人在意，因为他们一直在那里做些奇怪的事情。

Yeah. So they called it Paradise Ranch. And the locals around there, they were used to because of all the atomic bomb testing. It kinda worked out because they weren't gonna first of all, was in the middle of nowhere. But even the nearby communities, the ones that were close enough, it just wasn't on anyone's radar because they had always been doing weird things out there.

所以这并没有引起任何人的注意。因此，在天堂牧场研发这些间谍飞机之类的东西，成了绝佳的掩护。

So it's not like it it it pricked up anyone's ears. So it was kind of the perfect cover to be there at Paradise Ranch doing these development of these spy planes and stuff.

对，对。但除此之外，中央情报局最初编造的掩护故事是，他们是一支炸弹专家团队

Right. Right. They so but in addition to that, the cover story initially that the CIA produced was that they were a team of bomb experts

嗯。

Yeah.

负责清理以前用作轰炸靶场时遗留的未爆弹药。这就是为什么他们用这个故事来解释为何突然出现了卡车和人，而那里之前几乎什么都没有。

Who were cleaning up unexploded munitions from the time when it was used as a bombing range. So that was why that was the story they used for why there was a sudden appearance of like trucks and people when there there hadn't been really much of anything there before.

没错。那里还存在天然屏障，几座山脉某种程度上遮挡了视线。它本就地处偏远，空域原本就受到限制。

Yeah. There were there were also natural barriers. There were a couple of mountain ranges that kinda shielded it from view. It was already remote. The airspace was already restricted.

后来艾森豪威尔总统签署了1955年的10633号行政令，实质上将51区的空域管制范围扩大。到了1958年，一项公共土地法令直接宣称这片区域不复存在。没错，地图上找不到它，官方也从不承认其存在。

And then Eisenhower came along and signed executive order one zero six three three in 1955, which basically extended the airspace over Area 51. Then in 1958, a public land order made this basically said that this area doesn't exist anymore. Right. It's not on maps. It's not acknowledged.

这正是二号基地——牧场（即51区）能长期保持神秘的重要原因，虽然后面我们会看到近年来情况略有变化。但政府反复装傻说'不知道你在说什么'，这种操作简直让人抓狂。

And this is one of the huge reasons why Site 2, The Ranch, Area 51 has been so and and we'll see later things have changed a little bit in recent years. But just for the government to say like, I don't know what you're talking about over and over again, it's sort of crazy making.

确实。但就像我们稍后会看到的，他们甚至在公开法庭上说'原告声称的工作地点根本不存在'。法官都懵了：这案子还怎么审？

It is. But like they would as we'll see later, they will they would say in open court this the place where this person claims to work does not exist. I know. Like in court. And the the judge would just be like, what do you how what how are we gonna get around this?

这是个现实难题。不过查克，据我所知，51区最初是中情局的设施。

This is a real problem. But that from what I read, Chuck, originally, Area 51 was a CIA installation.

对。

Yeah.

大约1970年移交给了空军。但可以确定的是，至少在五十年代中后期到六十年代初，根本没人知道51区的存在。他们当时保密工作做得极好，不像后来变成公开的秘密，而是真正的绝密。根据工人后来在法庭上的证词，他们甚至会持枪审问员工是否为间谍，还搞各种奇怪的忠诚度测试。

And around 1970, it transferred hands to the Air Force. But from from what I could tell, up until that point or at least the first several years in the mid to late fifties and early sixties, no one had any idea that Area 51 existed. They did a really good job of keeping that place a genuine secret, not an open secret like it became later on, but a real secret. And one of the ways that they did that was they they from from what workers later said in, like, testimony in court cases is that, like, they would be interrogated at gunpoint to see if they were actually spies. There were all sorts of like weird loyalty tests and things like that.

尤其是当他们研发U2侦察机时，保密程度严格到——如果你只是基地里与U2项目无关的普通工人，正在处理其他项目，他们就会把你赶进室内。对，关上门窗拉上窗帘，才把U2拖出来测试。你根本不被允许待在室外或窥视。

And while they were working on the u two spy plane in particular, they kept that secret so serious that if you were out there working and you had nothing to do with the u two program, you were just a worker, you were working on a different program, They would move you indoors Yeah. Close the doors, close the blinds on the windows before rolling the u two out or testing it. Like, you were not allowed to be outside or look.

没错。这简直不可思议。在51区内部，他们甚至设置了分级安保

Yeah. That that was pretty like remarkable. Like within Area 51, they even had sub security

嗯。

Mhmm.

机制。我原本以为只要进入基地，就能接触外星人研究室。

Protocols in place. I kinda just figured like, if you were in there, then you had access to the alien room.

对。

Right.

你知道的，所有劲爆的东西都在那儿。

You know, all the good stuff.

没错。但想想看，光是要进入基地或51区，你就必须拥有最高级别的安全许可

Right. But but think about that because to even be on the base or in Area 51, you had to have the highest level of security clearance you could possibly have

是啊。

Yeah.

就在那儿工作。即便你拥有那些设备，你依然无法发现U-2侦察机，不知道它的存在，也听不到人们谈论它。

Just to work on there. And even if you have that, you still couldn't see the u two spy plane or know that it existed or hear people talk about it.

他们连波诺都不让知道。没错。所以那个笑话真的很糟糕。

They wouldn't even let Bono in on it. Nope. So that was a terrible joke.

确实很糟糕。我本来希望我们能绕开这个话题的。

It was really bad. I was really hoping we can get around that one.

所以U-2侦察机在1960年弗朗西斯·加里·鲍尔斯被击落前一直很出色。突然间，飞机落入了苏联人手中。是的。他们基本上就说，好吧，到此为止了。一旦落入苏联手中，你就不能再拥有秘密侦察机了。

So the u two spy plane was great until it wasn't. And that was when Francis Gary Powers was shot down in 1960, and the plane was all of a sudden in the so the hand of the Soviets. Yeah. And they basically were like, well, that's the end of that. You can't have a secret spy plane anymore once it's in the hand of the Soviets.

这也是件大事，因为美国民众突然意识到美国政府确实在进行完全秘密的活动并研发技术。

And it was also a big deal because the American people all of a sudden knew that the the US government is definitely doing things in total secret and developing technology

没错。

Yeah.

一个无人知晓的秘密。

That no one knows about.

这对所有人都是个意外，不仅是苏联人，也包括美国公众，正如你刚才所说。我查阅过历史学家是否将此事视为美国人意识到政府会秘密行事而不为公众所知的转折点，但并未找到相关记载。不知道这是否属于埃德的评论范畴，但逻辑上确实如此。当然，人们此前并不知道U-2侦察机的存在。

It was a surprise to everybody, not just the Soviets, but also the the American public, like you were saying too. And I look to see if this was looked upon by historians as like the point where Americans realized that the government did things in secret that the American public didn't know about. And I didn't see anything like this. I don't know if this is an Ed comment or what, but it makes sense. And certainly, people didn't know that the u two spy plane existed.

中情局在保密工作上做得非常出色。但事情败露后，对美国而言相当难堪。更严重的是这架侦察机被击落——因为艾森豪威尔曾向赫鲁晓夫提议建立双方领空开放政策，以便互相监督军备条约等承诺的履行情况。虽然我们是敌对关系，但或许应该保持某种监督机制。而赫鲁晓夫直接拒绝了。

The CIA did a really good job of keeping it secret. But when it was out, it was pretty humiliating for The US. And it was also a big deal that this spy plane was shot down because Eisenhower had approached Khrushchev Khrushchev and said, hey, why don't we maintain an open airspace policy to one another so we can keep tabs to make sure that either side is keeping our word with our, you know, armament treaties and the stuff we're doing. Like, we're enemies, but maybe we should kind of be able to keep tabs on one another. And Khrushchev said, no.

根本不可能有什么领空开放政策。于是美国转而研发了U-2侦察机。当这架飞机在敌方禁飞区被击落时，这本质上就是战争行为。事态本可能走向完全不同的方向，但最终结果却是让美国蒙受巨大羞辱。

There's not gonna be any open airspace policy. And so the The United States went and developed this u two spy plane instead. And when it got shot down, flying over restricted airspace of an enemy, that's an act of war. And it could have gone way differently than it did. But instead, it was a big humiliation for The United States.

中情局项目负责人理查德·比斯尔没有选择退缩，反而向政府提议：'我有个主意，让我们实施更高级别的保密，开发更隐秘的飞机，启动更绝密的项目。'政府当即拍板：'干吧！我们惧怕苏联人，必须加码应对。'

And instead of just kind of tucking tail and running, the guy who was in charge of it for the CIA, Richard Bissell, went to the government and said, hey, I've got an idea. Let's get even more secret and develop an even more secretive plane under an even more secretive project. And that the government said, hey, let's do it. We're scared of the Russians. We'll double down.

'老兄，就算再加三重筹码也行。'这个计划后来就成了'牛车项目'。

We'll triple down if you want, buddy. And that became project Oxcart.

没错。那是个绝密的黑色项目。

That's right. And that was a a black project.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且它如此机密且隐蔽，以至于甚至没人能知道究竟花了多少钱。

And it was so secret and so concealed that no one was even allowed to know how much money was being spent.

是啊。这里是个重大转折点。

Yeah. This is a big a big turning point here.

确实。我是说，这某种程度上开启了我们至今仍生活的时代——军方将大量资金投入秘密项目，这些项目对外界而言根本不存在，也几乎不受监管。对，正是如此。有意思。

It was. I mean, this kinda started the era that we still live in today, which in which the military just dumps money into secret projects where there's that that don't exist as far as anyone knows and that there's very little oversight for. Right. Exactly. Interesting.

没错。而且据说这是理查德·比斯尔的主意。

Yep. And apparently, it was this Richard Bissell's idea.

好吧。我们稍事休息。老迪克·比斯尔。广告之后我们将继续讲述迪克·比斯尔和'牛车'计划的后续故事。

Alright. Well, let's take a break. Old Dick Bissell. And we'll we'll get back to Dick Bissell and the rest of Oxcart right after this.

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所以，我想如果你愿意往项目里砸钱，这就不算问题。但超级秘密项目的一个，我想，开销就是它成本高得多。背景调查耗时耗钱。把东西放在超级偏远的地方成本高。额外的安保力量，所有这些都花费更多的钱。

So one of the problems with I guess it's not a problem if you're you're comfortable with dumping money into a project. But one of the, I guess, expenses of a super super secret project is that it just cost a lot more. Background checks take time and cost money. Putting something in a super remote location cost money. Having extra security forces and it all just costs a lot more money.

我是说，做一件所谓'不存在'的事情，成本会成倍增加。

I mean, it's a it's a serious multiplier on cost to do something that quote unquote doesn't exist.

没错。但除此之外，查克，正在开发的技术实在太前沿了。单就其高度机密的性质，就注定需要在额外资金基础上投入更多。

Right. But in addition to that, Chuck too, is just the fact that the the technology that was being developed was so cutting edge. It just by definition required even more money on top of the extra money for it being so super secret.

是啊。最终，'牛车'计划催生了SR-71黑鸟侦察机。嗯。又是一架惊艳无比的飞机。

Yeah. So Oxcart eventually led to the s r 71 Blackbird. Mhmm. Another amazingly cool plane.

要我说，这可能是史上最酷的飞机了。

Probably the coolest of all time if you ask me.

确实。我之前提到过隐形轰炸机，但SR-71简直太棒了。不过后面还有一架我会提到的——先说吧，就是'猛禽'隐形战机。你肯定喜欢那款。

Yeah. I said the stealth bomber earlier, but the s r 71 is that that it was pretty awesome. Although there is another one later on that I'll mention. Well, I'll go ahead and say the bird of prey stealth jet. You like that one.

它相当酷炫。

It's pretty cool.

它看起来有点像超级酷的压舌板，你懂我说的那种感觉吗？

It looks a little bit like a super cool tongue depressor. You know what I'm talking about?

我知道压舌板是什么。

I know what a tongue depressor is.

这个看起来像那样。像一个会飞的灰色压舌板。不过更像冰棍棒。对吧？是的。

This looks like that. Like a flying gray tongue depressor. It's like a popsicle stick though. Right? Yeah.

但更宽一些。

But wider.

好吧。但SR-71黑鸟侦察机，绝对不是冰棍棒。

Okay. But the SR 71 Blackbird, definitely not a popsicle stick.

不，不。它只是很酷。而且，GI Joe（准确说是眼镜蛇组织）拥有SR-71黑鸟作为他们的飞机之一，这个事实也很有趣。

No. No. It's just cool. Plus, it doesn't hurt the fact that GI Joe well, Cobra, technically, had the SR 71 Blackbird as one of their planes. That's funny.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以'牛车'计划，他们基本上需要更好的基础设施，当时他们不能只把钱投入到喷气机的研发上。他们必须真正升级所有设施，扩展土地，甚至在更受限制的空域进行扩展，这些都发生在1962年。

So Oxcart, they needed better infrastructure basically, and it it was they couldn't just pour money into the development of the jet at this point. They had to really update all the facilities, expanding on land, expanding in more restricted airspace even, that happened in 1962.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我认为，这某种程度上强化了51区超级永久性的观念。

And it it just sort of, I think, ingrained the super permanence of Area 51.

而且，就像，政府表态拒绝承认的事实，好吧。我们的U2侦察机被击落是件耻辱的事，与其这样，或许我们该换个策略。他们确实在完全保密的黑色项目上走得更远。并且在那里研发了一些相当惊人的东西。

And also, like, the fact that, like, the government said, no. Okay. This is a humiliating thing to have our U2 shot down rather than maybe we'll just kind of take another tack. They really went further down the path of just completely secret black projects. And they developed some pretty pretty amazing stuff there.

我想你刚才说的是捕食鸟战机。那是九十年代的产物，对吧？

The I think you were saying the bird of prey. That was from the nineties. Right?

是的，我觉得它看起来很酷。

Yeah. I think it's cool looking.

F-117夜鹰，就是那种单翼隐形轰炸机，我相信。

The f one seventeen Nighthawk, that's the one that's like a single wing stealth bomber, I believe.

没错。这里也是他们处理俘获敌机的地方，会带到51区进行检查研究。

Yes. And this is also where they take and like if you capture an enemy plane, you will take that to Area 51 to to check out as well.

是的。代顿市赖特·帕特森基地还有一个专门为此设立的项目，但我在想这个可能更加高度敏感。我不确定。

Yeah. There's another program at Wright Patterson Base in Dayton that's like set up specifically for that, but I wonder if this is like even more highly sensitive. I don't know.

我不知道。

I don't know.

不过确实，他们之前捕获过米格战机、雷达系统，并在那里进行逆向工程，这些后来都派上了用场。还有个叫'隐性蓝'的隐形轰炸机项目。基本上，从六十年代起所有隐形飞行器，无论是隐形黑鹰还是隐形轰炸机，很可能都在51区以极度保密的方式研发测试。

But yeah, they've captured MiGs before, captured radar systems, and they reverse engineered them there, which will come in a play later on. And then there was another one called the tacit blue stealth bomber. So basically, any stealth aircraft, whether it was the stealth Blackhawks or the stealth bombers that were developed from the sixties onward, it was probably developed and tested in super secrecy in Area 51.

没错。就像我说的，这地方本质上成了个永不关门的秘密工厂。

Right. So like I said, this made it just sort of a shop that they would that wouldn't close essentially at this point.

嗯。

Mhmm.

1993年有个叫自由岭的地方——名字很讽刺，因为后来政府接管了自由岭，对公众封闭。这里曾是锡纸帽爱好者们用望远镜观测的聚集地。嗯。然后政府说：到此为止。

In 1993, there was there's an area known as Freedom Ridge, very ironic name because Freedom Ridge was taken by the government Right. And closed off to the public. And this is where tinfoil hats used to gather with their binoculars to try and check out things. Mhmm. And they said, no more.

自由岭现在归我们了。

Freedom Ridge is now ours.

那地方叫‘滚出去岭’。没错。‘格杀勿论岭’。就是这样。所以如果你想去见外星人。

It's called Get Out Of Here Ridge. Yeah. Shot On Sight Ridge. That's right. So if you are like, get to the aliens.

你们到底在聊什么？51区的外星人，现在它们几乎成了同义词，确实如此。通往51区的公路，内华达州已正式将其更名为‘外星人高速公路’，我想应该是305号公路。

What are you guys even talking about? The aliens in Area 51, as synonymous as they are now, and they are synonymous. The highway that Area 51 is off of, that the road to Area 51 is off of, has been officially renamed by the state of Nevada as the extraterrestrial highway. I think it's Highway 305.

对。

Yeah.

虽然这个基地现在与外星人和UFO紧密关联，但这其实是相对近期的事。它在运营了大约25到35年后，外星人才开始与51区联系起来。实际上有个确切的时间点可以追溯，那是在1989年5月的一次电视广播上，差不多三十年前，在拉斯维加斯当地电视台KLAS播出的。我不确定他们属于哪个电视网。

As synonymous as this base is with aliens and UFOs, that's actually relatively recent. It was operating for a good twenty five, thirty five years, I think, before aliens became tied to Area 51. And there's actually a moment in time that you can point to where it happened. And it happened on a broadcast in May 1989, almost just past thirty years ago on KLAS, the local Las Vegas TV network. I'm not sure what network affiliate they are.

但他们在下午5点的新闻节目中采访了一个匿名人士，化名丹尼斯。他基本上是说，嘿，我在51区干了很多奇怪的事，我来告诉你们一切。

But they had like their 05:00 news and on it, they interviewed a guy who was anonymous, went by the pseudonym Dennis. And he basically said, hey, I'm doing a lot of weird stuff out there at Area fifty one. Let me tell you all about it.

对。他的真名是鲍勃·拉扎尔，你看过他的采访吗？嗯。你看过最近的那个吗？

Yeah. His name his real name was Bob Lazar, and he have you seen interviews with this guy? Yeah. Did you see the the more recent one?

没有。但他说过‘我觉得这是个好主意’的那次？

No. The but the one where he said, I think it was a good idea. That one?

不，我说的是几年前就发生过一起这样的事。

No. I'm talking about there was one just from a few years ago.

不是。

No.

我得说，我完全不是个阴谋论者。

It it I gotta say, I mean, I'm not a conspiracy guy at all.

对。

Right.

但如今听鲍勃·拉扎尔讲话时，他完全不像那种胡言乱语的怪人或是骗子。他并没有靠这个赚钱，反而更像是说：听着，老兄，我真希望这事别跟我名字挂钩，因为我在密歇根州经营生意，被人当成UFO狂热分子对我可没好处。

But when you listen to Bob Lazar talk today, he just doesn't seem like some crackpot or a weirdo or like he would be lying. He hasn't like made money off of this or like he he's he's basically like, listen, man. I I kinda wish this wasn't attached to my name because I'm trying to run a business in Michigan, and it doesn't help that people think I'm some UFO kook.

鲍勃·拉扎尔的外星苹果。而且他

Bob Lazar's alien apples. And he's

哦，好吧。他还说：但我告诉你们的每件事都是真的，事实就是这样。信不信由你，我无所谓。

oh, good. And he said but he was like, you know, everything that I told you was true though, and that's just the deal, you know. And I don't care if anyone believes me.

不过他在早期采访中也是这样的。至少，他非常冷静，一点也不古怪或类似那样。主要是他谈论的内容确实。是的。非常引人入胜。

He's kinda like that though too in the early interviews. At the very least, he's very calm and not at all kooky or anything like that. It's specifically the stuff he was talking about that was Yeah. So compelling.

是的。所以他的故事是这样的——你可以自己去看看这些资料——他基本上解释了自己是如何作为一名工程师，从事逆向工程研究，主要是飞碟，也就是外星飞船和外星技术。有一次，他在一个房间里，他们让他独自查看所有这些描述外星技术和外星人解剖的文件。嗯。以及所有这些内容。听起来相当不可思议。

Yeah. So his story is and you can go watch this stuff for yourself and see it all, but he basically explains how he's an engineer and he was working on reverse engineering, flying saucers essentially, alien spacecraft and alien technology. And at one point, he was in a room and they left him alone with all these files that describe alien technology and alien autopsies Mhmm. And all of this stuff. And it's pretty remarkable to listen to.

当时并没有引起太大轰动，因为那是1989年。只是一家地方新闻台报道的。

It didn't make the hugest waves because it was 1989. It was a local news station.

一开始确实没有。

At first, it didn't.

是的。然后奇怪的是，日本媒体注意到了。嗯。传到日本后，就逐渐在全球范围内传播开来。转眼间，整个地区就成了外星文化的中心。

Yeah. And then it was picked up by Japan, oddly enough. Mhmm. And after it went to Japan, it went kinda worldwide. And before you know it, the whole area just sort of became alien central.

这里需要指出的是，这也与七八十年代美国掀起UFO狂热有很大关系。

And this is we should point out this also has a lot to do with the fact that in the seventies and eighties, The United States kinda went UFO nuts.

哦，没错。那时候出了很多畅销书，声称从百慕大三角到亚特兰蒂斯都是UFO的杰作，纳斯卡线条是为UFO准备的，甚至埃及人用UFO建造了金字塔——所有这些理论都源自七八十年代。

Oh, yeah. I mean, there are so many great books at the time that were coming out that claimed everything from like UFOs were responsible for the Bermuda Triangle or Atlantis was populated by UFOs or the Nazca lines were for UFOs or the Egyptians built the pyramids with UFOs. All that stuff came out of the seventies and eighties.

是的。这一切与拉扎尔接受新闻采访的时间点重合，确实彻底改变了一切。

Yeah. So this all kinda coincided with Lazar having his news interview and it and it really just kinda changed everything.

确实如此。对吧？他出现的时机恰好是美国民众最容易轻信这类说法的年代。但仔细想想，如今关于51区所有耳熟能详的传闻，在1989年鲍勃·拉扎尔出现之前根本不存在。一切都始于鲍勃·拉扎尔。

It did. Right? So he kind of like came out at a time when America was primed to really believe it. But but if you think about it, everything you hear about and think about from about Area 51 today did not exist pre 1989, pre Bob Lazar. It all started with Bob Lazar.

没错。而为什么人们没有简单把他当成胡言乱语的疯子呢？关键在于，他描述的某些细节居然经得起推敲。比如他会提到51区日常工作中的琐碎事项，这些描述似乎能与当地人的见闻相互印证。

Yeah. And the reason why everybody wasn't just like, so he's just some nut who came out and said this stuff, who cares? How did that how did that become truly cemented with Area 51 is that weirdly, some of the stuff he talked about kind of held water. Like he would talk about just mundane day to day stuff that went on at Area fifty one that seemed to be able to be correlated from locals. Yeah.

就像他说的手部扫描仪。他声称进出房间需要通过扫描手部骨骼结构来识别身份。三十年后，有人确实在某份解密的51区文件中发现了类似装置的记载。

Like it it held up. There is a there was a scanner once. He said that you would get in and out of rooms by scanning your hands, and it would scan the bone structure of your hand. That was how you were identified and could come in and out of rooms. And supposedly, somebody found year like thirty years later, mention of something like that in some declassified report about Area 51.

真正让他获得可信度的，是他会带人在周三晚上外出观测。虽然他说自己没注意具体时间，但就在他声称会出现异象的时刻，夜空中确实升起了发光体，上演各种疑似UFO的奇观。他掌握这些时间表的事实极大增强了其说法的可信度。

He also and this is what really kind of legitimized him. He would take people out on on Wednesday nights. Mhmm. And at the time, he would say, I never saw what time it was, but at the time he said it would happen, lights would rise up in the sky and they would do all sorts of UFO y kind of stuff. And the fact that he knew about these schedules really kind of added legitimacy to his claims.

对。我在新看到的采访里，他正在解释某种反重力推进装置

Yeah. And the the new interview that I saw, he was explaining some of the anti gravitational propulsion

嗯。

Mhmm.

据称是外星人使用过的技术。他被指派进行逆向工程研究。

Technology that the aliens had supposedly used. He was supposedly assigned to reverse engineer.

对。

Right.

他当时正向房间里的人解释。他说，哦，是的。我们有过这么个东西，有点像半个篮球。当你把手放上去时，感觉就像——他形容说，就像把两块磁铁靠近，你知道的，同极相斥那种感觉？

And he was sort of walking walking the person through it that was in the room. And he was like, oh, yeah. And he said, we had this thing. It was sort of like half a basketball. And when you went to put your hand on it, he was like, there was this he was like, bringing two magnets, you know, opposite poles to or is it opposite poles that repel?

嗯。他说差不多就是那种感觉。还说如果扔个高尔夫球过去，球会直接弹开，就像撞到东西反弹似的。他描述的方式让我觉得，这人听起来特别可信。

Mhmm. And he said that's kinda what it felt like. And he said, so we would drop like a golf ball and it would just, you know, skirt off to the side without hitting it. And like as if it had bounced and he the way he was describing it, I was just like, this guy just seems so credible.

确实。

Right.

太震撼了，完全出乎意料。我原本以为...以为他会是个不靠谱的人。

It was so, like, shocking. I didn't know what to expect. I thought he was I thought he was not going to be credible, I guess.

没错。我没看过他的采访，但读过相关技术报道。顺便说，各位可以清空邮箱了。查克，显然是同极相斥原理，懂的都懂。

Right. I didn't see the the interview with him, but I read about that technology. And and by the way, everybody, you can erase your email. It's like poles that repel each other, Chuck, not obviously. Right.

他所谈论的反重力技术，基本上是指在他们逆向工程的飞行器周围，能够弯曲重力，使得飞行器可以近乎以光速穿越太空。没错。这是UFO研究者们对此类事件的普遍猜测——他们正在逆向工程一种利用反重力技术推进的光速飞行器，其引擎采用物质反物质驱动。而在1989年，互联网尚未普及，即便存在，当时也找不到关于反重力飞行器的详细描述。

The the the the anti gravity technology he was talking about was basically saying like around the craft or whatever that they were reverse engineering. It would bend gravity so this could just move right through space basically at light speed. Yeah. That's the big suspicion among UFOlogists who follow this stuff is that they were reverse engineering light speed aircraft that was propelled using anti gravity technology on engines that were matter anti matter engines. And and back in 1989, you couldn't there wasn't an Internet to start with, but even if there was, you couldn't find stuff like descriptions of anti gravity craft at the time.

所以这家伙突然以权威姿态谈论这些话题，确实是个谜一般的人物。但他的可信度从一开始就备受质疑，对吧？

So for this guy to just come out and start talking about this in an authoritative way Yeah. He he's an enigmatic figure for sure. But he was also one whose credibility was questioned right out of the gate too. Right?

是啊。他声称自己就读于MIT和加州理工，却查无此人。阴谋论者会说：'你知道政府要抹掉这些记录有多容易吗？'

Yeah. I mean, he said that he went to MIT and to Caltech. There are no records of him being a student. The conspiracy theorist will say, like, you know how easy it is for the government to wipe that clean?

确实。

Right.

你真觉得容易？老实说我不确定。但他们就会这么辩解。

Do you? Yeah. I'm like, I don't know. Is that easy? So that's what they will say.

他们还会声称联系了他的教授们，确保所有人保持沉默之类的。但说真的，当牵涉到成百上千人参与的大规模掩盖行动时——总会有人走漏风声的，对吧？

They will also say that they also, like, got in touch with his professors to make sure they never talked and stuff like that. But Yeah. That's when I get a little bit like, you you can't you can't have hundreds of people or thousands of people involved in some big massive cover up. Right. Like, someone's gonna talk.

嗯，你可能把格局想小了。我同意你的观点，这种说法确实开始显得可疑了。

Yeah. You're just not thinking big enough. I I agree with you. That's when it kinda starts to get hinky for me.

但他确实消失了，我是说，不是那种彻底消失，而是消失了一段时间。我的意思是，他并不是那种说‘好了，现在我要去赚大钱了’的人。

But he did disappear and so I mean, not disappear, disappear, disappear. But he I mean, it's not like he was like, alright. And now I'm gonna go make all the money on this.

对，没错。

Right. Exactly.

比如他搬走了，尝试开创一个普通的事业，试图远离公众视线。

Like he moved and tried to start like a regular business and tried to just not be in the public eye.

是的，他确实这么做了。我觉得这反而更增添了他的可信度，你懂吗？

Yeah. He did. Which I think adds to his credibility even more, you know?

有一点吧。

A little bit.

我们休息一下，然后回来继续，好吗？就这么定了。但我们要保证一定会回来。

Let's take our last break and then come back, shall we? Let's do it. But let's promise we're gonna come back.

好的。

Okay.

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好的，查克。鲍勃·拉扎尔突然出现，开始滔滔不绝地讲述51区那些疯狂的外星人事件。然后他逐渐淡出公众视野一段时间，其他人则接过了这个话题。任何与政府阴谋论、UFO或外星人信仰相关的内容，都开始一点点被归咎到51区头上。

Okay, Chuck. So Bob Lazar comes along, just starts spouting out at the mouth about all the crazy alien stuff that's going on at Area 51. And then he kind of like fades into the background for a while. And everybody else kinda took it from there. If you have anything to do with government conspiracies or believe in UFOs or aliens or whatever, all that stuff started to get saddled little by little onto Area 51.

有个很早就与51区扯上关系，但几乎所有理性或持怀疑态度的消息源都会明确表示两者毫无关联的事件——罗斯威尔事件与51区。

And one of the things that pretty early on got connected to Area 51, but almost across the board, any reasonable source or skeptical source will say, like, the two have nothing to do with one another is Roswell and Area 51.

对，就是1947年的罗斯威尔坠毁事件

Yeah. The the Roswell crash in 1947

嗯。

Mhmm.

当时有东西坠毁了。一位绅士发现了某种不明物体的残骸碎片，这地方随即成为UFO研究的中心。后来官方宣称那只是个气象气球。

When something crashed. A gentleman found pieces of an air well, pieces of some kind of unidentified object, and it became UFO central. Later, it was it was said to be a weather balloon.

但最初军队声称那是飞碟。

But first, the army said it was a flying disc.

没错。嗯。

Right. Mhmm.

这某种程度上改变了事情。

That kind of changed things.

你看过那些照片了吧？

You've seen the pictures. Right?

当然。我是说，看起来我好像看过那张著名的照片，一个人蹲着，手里拿着像是气球材料的东西。

Sure. I mean, looks like I've I've seen that that one famous picture of the guy crouching with what looks like just some balloon material.

是啊。

Yeah.

对。但你知道，他只是政府的托儿，那只是他们想出来的道具。罗斯威尔事件发生在1947年，51区不可能与之有关。整个罗斯威尔传说的核心就是有架UFO坠毁了。

Right. But you know, he was just a stooge for the government and that was just a prop that they came up with. So the the Roswell crash happens in 1947. There's no way Area 51 would have been associated with it. The whole the whole mythos around Roswell is that there was a UFO crash that happened.

有些外星人幸存了，或者至少他们的尸体被找到了，这取决于你问谁。而UFO和外星人，无论死活，被带到哪里进一步研究？51区。

Some aliens survived or at the very least their bodies were recovered, depending on who you ask. And the UFO and the aliens, alive or dead, were taken for further study to where? Area 51.

没错。

Right.

1947年罗斯威尔飞碟坠毁事件发生时，51区甚至还未进入中情局的视线。那里本质上就是个废弃的简易机场兼核试验场。所以最初根本不可能有安置外星人的场所。其次，关于罗斯威尔事件涉及外星飞船坠毁的说法，实际上直到八十年代才逐渐流传开来。人们真正开始关注这个说法其实已经有点晚了。

Area 51 back in 1947 when the Roswell crash happened was not even on the CIA's radar. It was that basically a defunct airstrip and a nuclear testing range still. So there wouldn't have been any place to take the aliens in the first place. And then secondly, after the Roswell crash happened, the idea of the an alien an alien crash having taken place there, that didn't come about until like the eighties too. So really people started to kinda catch on to this a little late.

所以罗斯威尔和51区很可能毫无关联。别忘了两地相距足有800英里（约1287公里）。尽管在美国乃至全球非西南地区居民的印象中，它们仿佛近在咫尺。

So probably Area 51 in Roswell have nothing to do with one another. And let's not forget that they're like 800 miles apart too. Yeah. Even though to everyone in America and really the rest of the world outside of the Southwest thinks they're like right next to each other.

我也这么认为。

I think so.

你明白吧？

You know?

没错。多年来流传着各种疯狂理论，最基础的就像你刚才说的——那里存放着外星人尸体和科技装备。嗯。美军一直在研究这些东西，试图从时间旅行到光速飞行都实现技术突破。

Yeah. So there have been a lot of crazy theories over the years. The the very most basic are like you just said, like there's alien corpses there, there's alien technology there. Mhmm. And the US military has been studying this stuff and trying to perfect everything from time travel to light speed travel.

对。

Right.

这很合理。这就是最基础的零点假设。

That's Fine. That's the basic ground zero approach.

别忘了还有跨维度旅行。

Don't forget interdimensional travel too.

是啊，为什么不呢？

Yeah. Why not?

我还看到另一个观点，有些显而易见的低垂果实我很喜欢。比如登月是伪造的。当然。之后库布里克在现场被处决，然后被克隆人取代了。

Another one I saw, there's some pretty pretty low hanging fruit that I love. The moon landing was faked there. Sure. Then after that, Kubrick was executed on-site and replaced by a clone.

嗯，那个克隆人确实干得不错。

Well, that clone did some great work.

确实。比《巴里·林登》强多了，对吧？

He did. Yeah. Better than Barry Lyndon. Right?

噢，我可喜欢《巴里·林登》了。

Oh, I love Barry Lyndon.

我从来没看过，所以还真没法批评它。

I've never seen it, so I can't really hate on it.

哦，这太神奇了。

Oh, it's amazing.

天气控制实验，这对我来说可能是最可信的。

Weather control experiments, that's probably the most believable for me.

当然。人工降雨？当然可以。为什么不呢？

Sure. Cloud seeding? Sure. Why not?

嗯，为什么不呢？然后还有阴谋论的第二阶段。

Well, why not? And then there's like stage two of of conspiracy theories.

是的。就是说有外星人每天在51区打卡上班

Yes. That is there are aliens that clock in every day at Area 51

嗯。

Mhmm.

并与我们和谐共事。

And work side by side with us in harmony.

为了构建一个类似外星人与人类混血种族，或许需要和谐共处。如果这些听起来很熟悉，我敢打赌你一定看了不少《X档案》。

In harmony in order to build like an alien human hybrid race, maybe. And if all this sounds familiar, I will bet that you watched a pretty hefty amount of X Files.

哦，没错。

Oh, yes.

因为他们确实深入挖掘了这类题材。嗯。基本上就是把这类元素直接挪用为剧情线索。哦对，这很棒。

Because they really tapped into this stuff. Mhmm. They basically just appropriated it for plot plot lines. Oh, yeah. Which is great.

我超爱《X档案》。但我觉得克里斯·卡特可能经常和不明飞行物研究者混在一起找灵感。

I love the X Files. But it was just I I guess Chris Carter used to hang out with like ufologists or something just to get ideas.

很可能。他真的这样吗？

Probably. Did he really?

或者...是的。他肯定这么干过。

Or Yeah. He had to have.

是啊。要么他本人就是其中一员。不太清楚

Yeah. I'm or he is one himself. Don't know much

关于那个。也许吧。也许吧。

about that. Maybe so. Maybe so.

所以接下来，当然，如果你再进一步推想，这一切都是一个巨大阴谋的一部分，目的是建立一个由外星人操控的世界统一政府

So and then, of course, if you even ramp that up a little bit more that the the this is all part of a giant conspiracy to create a one world government

嗯。

Mhmm.

那是由人类与外星人共同管理的。

That is human alien run.

对。这就是我一开始提到的那个‘威严十二人’组织介入的地方。他们据说是由学者、顶尖科学家组成的十二人小组，在罗斯威尔事件后被艾森豪威尔——或者我想那时还是杜鲁门总统——召集起来的。

Right. And that's where that majestic 12 I mentioned at the beginning comes in. They they are supposedly a panel of academics, elite scientists. There's 12 of them who were impaneled by Eisenhower after the Roswell crash. Or I guess it would have been Truman, I think, still.

这些人被集结起来，作为精英中的精英，基本任务就是去联系外星人，并安排总统与外星人的会面。他们设法利用这一点，将自己推升至实际掌控世界的地位。没错。所以他们才是组建这个统一政府的人，而51区——或者说这个政府的所在地——就位于51区的地下。

Who and they were put together, just the the cream of the crop to basically go contact the aliens and basically broker a meeting, I guess, between the president and the aliens, and they managed to leverage this to catapult themselves into status of actual people who run the world. Right. So they're the ones who are forming this this one world government, and that is where Area 51 or that's where it's located. The seat of this government is located underground in Area 51.

是啊。下一个说法更近些，也非常离奇。讲的是希特勒和斯大林曾密谋，嗯…在二战期间通过用即将发生的外星人入侵转移我们的注意力，来削弱美国。嗯。

Yeah. This next one is a little more recent and very kooky. And it's it's the notion that Hitler and Stalin got together and hatched a plan Mhmm. To undermine The United States in World War two by distracting us about the threat of an impending alien invasion. Mhmm.

他们计划建造一艘假飞船，里面装满约瑟夫·明加拉创造的变异儿童

And they would do this by building a fake spaceship, filling it with mutant children that Joseph Mingala created

对。

Right.

然后用这些孩子塞满飞船。接着飞船在风暴中坠毁，嗯。那就是罗斯威尔事件。

And fill the spaceship with those kids. And then the the craft crashed in a storm Mhmm. And that was the Roswell Incident.

没错。它本该着陆，然后这些变异儿童就会出来。

Right. It was meant to land, and then these mutant children come out.

说着德语。

Speaking German.

据说是这样。据称，罗斯威尔坠毁事件中发现的外星人——那些变异儿童——拥有巨大的头颅和眼睛，基本就是外星传说中灰人的模样。然后斯大林和希特勒受到美国公众对《世界大战》广播剧反应的启发。

Suppose right. Supposedly, the mutant children who were the aliens that were found in the Roswell crash had huge heads and giant eyes. They were basically like the grays of alien legend. Right. And that Stalin and Hitler were inspired by the public's reaction in America to the world War of the Worlds broadcast.

他们想通过制造这场虚假的外星入侵来煽动类似的恐慌。

They wanted to incite that kind of panic by actually creating this fake alien invasion.

考虑到希特勒当时服用的所有药物，既然我们现在知道了这一点，谁知道呢？我确信

With all the drugs Hitler was on, after we know this now, who knows? I'm sure

他就像在说，对，对，对。这主意太棒了。老兄，这主意太棒了。

he's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea. That's a great idea, man.

说说你还有什么？还有什么？我们还能做什么？索尔显得很淡定。你试过CBD吗？

Let's what else you got? What else you got? What else can we do? Saul is like, mellow. You tried CBD?

他说，没有。这是我唯一没试过的。你有吗？

He's like, no. That's the one thing I haven't tried. You got any?

没错。我打赌它能和其他东西完美搭配。

Right. Bet it'll mix well with everything else.

所以这显然也不是真的。

So this is this is obviously not a thing either.

嗯，这出自一位名叫安妮·雅各布森的作家所写的书，我记得。这本书出版于2011年2月，她整个故事基于一位自称51区内部人士的线人，那人说他参与了一个与此相关的项目。但所有这些外星人传闻都源于此——这是纳粹和苏联联手制造的骗局。是的。

Well, this is from a book by an author named Annie Jacobson, I believe. And she this book came out in 02/2011, and she based this whole thing on an alleged Area fifty one insider who was her source, who said that he worked on a project that had to do with this somehow, some way. But that this this was where all this alien stuff came from. It was a it was a hoax by the Nazis and the Soviets. Yeah.

奇怪的是，还有另一个据称有不同消息来源的人也讲述了同样的故事，但这个来源说这一切都是假的。我亲眼看过那些文件，但我认为那是对忠诚度的测试。

Weird thing is is there's another guy out there who supposedly has a different source who tells the same story, but this other source says that this is it was all fake. That I saw the files myself, but I believe that it was meant to be a test of loyalty

没错。

Right.

或者是为了观察我在51区工作时面对这类文件的反应，比如惊呼'天啊，这是真的！这居然是真的！'所以我想这是为了测试你有多容易上当，从而判断你有多值得信任。

Or to see how I would react working at Area 51 to files like this and and be like, oh my god, this is real. This is real. I can't believe this is this is actually real. So I guess to see how gullible you were and therefore how trustworthy you were.

对。这也解释了鲍勃·拉扎尔的情况，因为他据说曾在一个满是本不该看到的文件的房间里。

Right. Which could explain Bob Lazar's situation too because he was supposedly in a room full of files that he probably shouldn't have seen either.

是的。所以那就是...

Right. So that that's

他可能没通过测试。

He probably failed the test.

有三个不同的消息来源都自称在51区工作过——严格来说鲍勃·拉扎尔是在S4基地（一个比51区更机密的附属设施）。这三人都声称曾被单独留在存放外星人档案的房间里，无论那些文件是骗局还是真实的。这可能与'用枪指着审讯以验证对政府或军方的忠诚度'的说法相吻合。

You got three different sources who supposedly worked at Area fifty one. Technically, I should say because we'll get email, Bob Lazar worked at s four, which is an even more secret installation that's attached to Area 51. Yeah. But you got three people who allegedly worked in Area 51, who all tell a story about basically being left in a room with files that contained information about aliens, whether it was a hoax or real or whatever. And maybe that is because that kind of correlates with the idea that there were like gunpoint interrogations to verify your allegiance to the government or the military or whatever.

也许那是他们在那尝试过的事情。是的。这并不能证明外星人真的存在，只是证明那些文件确实存在。

Maybe that is something they tried there. Yeah. It doesn't make the actual aliens real. It just makes the presence of the files real.

确实如此。没错。所以今天的51区，如果你沿着375号公路行驶，在29和30英里标志之间——或者应该是30和29英里标志之间——有一条未标记的土路。嗯。然后你就拐上那条路。

That's true. Yeah. So Area 51 today, as it truly exists, if you're driving down Highway 375, there's an unmarked dirt road between mile markers twenty nine and thirty or I guess thirty and twenty nine. Mhmm. And you turn on that road.

要在土路上开12英里。你会到达一个大门。对。沿途会有警告标志写着'禁区'，有点像《第三类接触》那种感觉。那里会有摄像头和传感器遍布各处，所以别以为你能偷偷摸摸做什么。

It's 12 miles on a dirt road. You'll get to a gate. Right. And there'll be warning signs all along saying restricted area, sort of like close encounters type stuff. There will there will be cameras and sensors everywhere, so don't think you're like getting away with anything.

没错。那里有麦克风会监听你们的对话。哦，就像，据我所知，你会受到这辈子最严密的监控。

No. There's there's mics that listen to your conversation. Oh, Like, you were you were under as close surveillance as you've ever been in your life from what I understand.

是的。当然还有警卫。他们会说'很抱歉，请调头返回公路'。如果你稍微坚持一下，就会被逮捕。

Yeah. And there are guards, of course. And they will say, I'm sorry. Turn around and drive back to the highway. And if you persist a little bit, then you will get arrested.

如果你在周边区域晃悠，用双筒望远镜观察...嗯...他们可能会过来没收你的望远镜，让你离开或者把你押送回公路，也可能打烂你的脸然后把你埋在沙漠里。

If you're around the perimeter area, kinda walking around with your binoculars Mhmm. They will probably come and take your binoculars and tell you to leave or drive you back to the highway or maybe smash your face in and bury you in the desert.

好吧，那里有个告示写着'允许使用致命武力'。

Well, there's a sign that says use of deadly force is force is authorized.

哦，我确定。

Oh, I'm sure.

但据我所见，从未发生过实际那样的事件。你更可能被移交给当地警察，他们会罚你几百美元。

But there there's from what I've seen, there's never been an incident that that where that actually happened. You're much more likely to get handed over to the local cops who will slap you with a several $100 fine.

确实。

Sure.

如果你对他们有任何不敬，或者在他们叫你立即离开时不照做的话。

If you if you give them any kind of guff and don't leave immediately when they tell you to.

关于51区的一个有趣之处在于，显然那里有平民工作人员。那是个巨大的设施，而且显然还在扩建，因为从卫星照片上看，年复一年，它似乎越来越大，建筑也越来越多。

So kind of the cool thing about Area 51, there are obviously I mean, are civilian workers that work there. It's a huge facility that apparently is still growing because you can look at satellite photographs and year by year, it seems to be getting bigger and bigger with more buildings.

没错。

Right.

如果你在那里工作，我的意思是，他们必须拥有从餐饮服务到保洁服务，再到管道工和电工等各类人员。

If you work there and I mean, they have to have everything from food services to custodial services to plumbing and electricians and stuff like that.

这些人全都拥有美国公民所能获得的最高级别安全许可。

And all of those people have the highest possible security clearance an American can have.

哦当然。所以他们不会直接开车走那条土路到大门口打招呼说'最近怎么样啊瑞克'，然后对方回应'快进来吧简'。他们是去拉斯维加斯的麦卡伦机场。

Oh, sure. So they don't drive down that dirt road and just go to the gate and say, how you doing, Rick? And they go, come on in, Jane. They go to McCarran Airport in Las Vegas.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后所有人登上一架大型的——基本算是空中出租车——波音737客机

And they all get on a big, basically, air taxi. It's a seven thirty seven passenger jet

嗯。

Mhmm.

这些飞机被称作珍妮特专机，呼号就是珍妮特。通体白色带粗红条纹，网上都能查到。没错。

That fly they call them the Janet jets. It's under the call sign Janet. They're white, the big thick red stripe. You can look it up online. Yep.

他们每天就是这样通勤的。用波音737把所有人运进去上班。

And they that's how they get to work every day. They fly everyone in on a seven thirty seven.

你可以在停机坪上看到它们。它们就混在普通航班中起降。

And you can see them on the tarmac. They just get in with the regular planes.

是啊。

Yeah.

只需要留意那些通体白色带红条纹、没有任何标识的巨型波音737。就像你说的，它们以'珍妮特'呼号飞行。人们一直试图破解这个呼号的含义，有种说法认为它代表'另一个不存在的航站楼'。

It's just look for the giant seven thirty sevens that are white with the red stripe and no logo, no nothing. They don't actually have a name. Like you said, they fly under call sign Janet. People have tried to figure out forever what Janet means. There's an idea that it's just another nonexistent terminal, stands for that.

嗯。或者'员工联合空中运输网'的缩写。

Mhmm. Or Joint Air Network for Employee Transportation.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但如果你参观内华达航空航天名人堂，他们会告诉你：1969至71年间51区有位叫理查德·萨姆森的指挥官，他用妻子珍妮特的名字来命名这些通勤航班。

But if you go visit the Nevada Aerospace Hall of Fame, they tell the story that there was a commander of Area 51 named Richard a Samson from 1969 to '71, and he chose his wife's name, Janet, to identify the commuter shuttles.

真浪漫。

That's sweet.

这就是有史以来最浪漫的政府超级机密故事。

And that's that's the most romantic super secret government story of all.

我们之前稍微暗示过，政府不再装糊涂说'我不知道你在说什么'。比如那张我们都在看的建筑物卫星图像，他们不会再坚称'我只看到一片荒地'。现在情况有点变化了，嗯哼。因为一场官司。

So we kinda teased earlier on that the government is no longer saying like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like, no. This satellite image that we're all looking at of buildings, I don't see anything but dirt. That's all changed a little bit now Mhmm. Because of a lawsuit.

九十年代中期，一群51区工人起诉政府，因为那里是环境灾难区——或许现在有所改善，但过去很多年由于黑色项目的无监管性质，他们基本上随意倾倒危险废物并在壕沟里焚烧。工人们长期吸入这些有毒气体。

In the mid nineteen nineties, there were a group of workers from Area 51 that sued the government because of the it's a environmental disaster there or, you know, maybe that's changing now, but it had been for many many years because of the fact that it's a black project and so unregulated that they were just basically doing everything like dumping hazardous waste and burning it in trenches. And people were there just inhaling these fumes

没错。

Right.

导致严重疾病。有个叫罗伯特·弗罗斯特的员工出现严重健康问题，医生诊断是某种恶性化学反应所致，但治疗需要知道具体物质。政府却说：抱歉，这是机密。最后他死了。

And getting really sick. And a guy named Robert Frost that worked there, an employee, had a lot of really bad health problems. Doctor said you were suffering from some kind of a really bad chemical reaction, and in order to treat it, we need to know what it is. And the government said, sorry, we can't tell you that. And he died.

他死后，其他同事提起诉讼。其中一人也去世了。官司打到内华达州——也可能是联邦巡回法院，结果法院判决：你们无权知道自己接触了什么。

He died and some other coworkers filed this lawsuit. And one of them ended up dying too. And they finally got to like a a Nevada, I think, or a Federal Circuit Court that said, no. You guys don't have a right to know what what you've been exposed to.

他们不要赔偿，只想知道是什么在要他们的命。

They weren't looking for money. They just wanted to know what was killing them.

他们无权知晓的法律依据在于——这正是我之前提到的那个审判中政府代表的说法——他们声称：'抱歉，你们所说的那个地方根本不存在。'

And the reason that they had no legal right to know was and this is that that trial that I was referring to earlier where the government representatives were saying like, we like the place that they're talking about doesn't exist. Sorry.

没错。

Right.

想象一下要突破这种障碍有多难。你在起诉政府要求查明那些让你患病的有害焚烧物，但政府却在法庭上说你们指控的场所根本不存在。这仅仅是第一道障碍。

So imagine like trying to just get past that barrier. Right? You're suing the government to find out what they were burning that made you sick. But the government's in court saying like the place that they're talking about doesn't even exist. That's like that's obstacle one.

是啊。

Yeah.

但政府最初焚烧这些东西的根本原因在于51区遵循所谓的'马赛克理论'。该理论认为，间谍获取的任何零碎信息都可能与其他情报拼接，从而揭示51区的整体活动。因此51区不允许任何信息外泄。

But the whole reason that they were burning this stuff in the first place is because Area 51 operates under what's called the Mosaic theory. And the Mosaic theory is that any little piece of information a spy gets his or her hands on could be fit together with other information to prove to provide a larger picture of what what's being done at Area 51. And as a result, nothing can come out of Area 51.