精选：多巴胺如何运作

我刚和一个迷你司机坐了下来。

And I just sat down with a mini driver.

这位爱尔兰旅行者说，当我16岁的时候，你会在男人身上经历一段艰难的时光。

The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men.

演员、讲故事的人，以及毫不掩饰的水瓶座先知。

Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.

水瓶座完全关乎自由和不同的视角。

Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

我发现很多水瓶座能量强烈的人，常常被误解。

And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like, are misunderstood.

她第七宫中的太阳和金星激发了她对伴侣关系的非传统态度。

A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

他真的

He really

教会了我接纳人们睡在不同的房间、不同的房子、不同的地方，只是接纳事物本然的状态

has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of

全部。

it all.

如果你正在经历自己的转变，或者只是想从一个独特的视角了解顶尖艺术家如何将占星术、创造力与现实生活相结合，这一集必听。

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen.

从2月24日起，在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Spirit Daughter》播客。

Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

所以，让我们来澄清一下对多巴胺作为终极愉悦化学物质的误解。

So check this whole under I should say misunderstanding of dopamine as the ultimate pleasure chemical.

如果你吸一口香烟，吸一撮可卡因，如果你爱的人轻轻触碰你的手，或者老师给你一个表扬，你都会获得一波多巴胺，而这正是你的奖励机制。

If you take a drag off a cigarette, if you snort a line of coke, if if the person you love, like, touches your hand, if if you get like a a from from the teacher, like, you're gonna get a hit of dopamine, and that's what that's what your reward is.

这个观点已经很过时了。

That's it's pretty old.

这是一个老观念。

It's an old idea.

它至少可以追溯到二十世纪中期，而我们正越来越远离那个时代，这让我感到不安。

At least it dates back to the middle of the twentieth century, which is we're getting further and further away from, which makes me gulp.

但这个观点被否定的想法本身也很古老了。

But the the disc that idea being discredited is pretty old too.

就像，它并没有持续很久。

Like, it didn't last very long.

问题是，它的影响却长久地留存了下来。

The problem is its legacy stuck around for a really long time.

它至今仍然存在。

It's still around today.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

For sure.

有一位研究者，说到古老，就是五六十年代的詹姆斯·奥尔兹，他做过一些关于大鼠的实验，说：嘿，每次我在大鼠耳朵后方某个特定位置给予轻微电刺激，它们就会不断去拉杠杆，或者重复我让它们做的任何行为。

There was a a researcher, speaking of old, named James Olds in the fifties and sixties who did some experiments with rats and said, hey, every time I give these rats a little electrical stimulation in just the right place, right there behind the ear, They're gonna keep pulling that lever down or whatever act I'm making them do.

只要我持续刺激那个区域，它们就会一遍又一遍、没完没了地重复那个动作。

They'll just do that over and over and over and over and over as long as I keep stimulating that area.

对。

Right.

所以他们认为，这种大鼠自我刺激的愉悦行为中，多巴胺一定起到了某种作用。

So what they said was, okay, there's something going on with dopamine in in this this, I guess, pleasurable act that the that the rat is doing to itself.

这一发现随后在

And that got followed up in the

哇哦。

Woah.

哇哦。

Woah.

在七十年代，一位名叫罗伊·怀斯的人进一步研究，他耗尽了大鼠的多巴胺受体，发现这些大鼠不再主动寻找食物，也不会去获取摆在面前的甲基苯丙胺。

That got followed up in the seventies by a guy named Roy Wise who depleted dopamine receptors in rats and found that they would not seek out food and they wouldn't seek out methamphetamines that that were just there on the offer.

这些大鼠可以得到无限量的甲基苯丙胺。

Those rats could have as much meth as they wanted.

但它们却说：‘不，不要。’

And they were like, nah.

我不想要。

I don't want any.

关键的是，罗伊·怀斯和他的同事们错误地将此解读为缺乏愉悦体验，而非缺乏动机。

And crucially, critically, Roy Wise and his colleagues misinterpreted that as a lack of experience of pleasure, not a lack of motivation.

直到八十年代，才有一些其他人指出：不，我们一直以来都理解错了。

And it wasn't until the eighties that some other people came along and were like, no, we we've been getting this wrong all this time.

是的。

Yeah.

在八十年代，他们用糖代替了甲基苯丙胺，我想。

In the eighties, they use sugar instead of methamphetamine, I guess.

而且再次非常残酷地。

And once again, very kind of cruelly.

他们切断了。

They cut off.

他们不给它们任何多巴胺。

They they didn't allow them any dopamine.

他们用药物害死了它们。

They killed them off with drugs.

但这次，他们给了它们糖，并说它们喜欢糖。

But this time, they gave them the sugar and they said, they they're liking the sugar.

从那个小家伙脸上的表情可以看出，它很享受。

You can tell by the look on that little guy's face that he enjoys it.

但关键是，它并没有回来要求更多糖。

But, and this is the key, it's not coming back and saying, give me more sugar.

给我更多糖。

Give me more sugar.

对。

Right.

或者给我更多冰毒。

Or give me more meth.

当然。

Sure.

所以，整个这件事改变了我们的理解，至少在研究这类问题的学术圈子里是这样。

So this whole thing, this changed our understanding, at least in in the, like, academia among people who study this kind of thing.

我们意识到，自己之前误解了所观察到的现象。

It it we realized we were misinterpreting what we were seeing.

缺乏多巴胺并不会导致缺乏愉悦感，即快感缺失（anhedonia）。

And that a lack of dopamine didn't lead to a lack of pleasure called an ahedonia or anhedonia.

而是缺乏去寻求这种愉悦感的动力。

It was a lack of motivation to seek out that pleasure.

正是从这些大鼠实验中，我们发现了缺乏多巴胺所产生的影响。

That's the effect of not having enough dopamine that we found from those rat tests.

因此，一种全新的理解框架就这样出现了。

So like this whole new framework of understanding it kinda came along.

但需要明确的是，多巴胺确实与能带给我们愉悦感的事物密切相关。

Because to be clear, dopamine is very much associated with things that give us pleasure.

而且似乎越令人愉悦的事物，释放的多巴胺就越多。

And it does seem like the more pleasurable something is, the more dopamine gets released.

比如，我觉得我曾经看到过，吃一些味道特别好的东西，嗯。

Like for example, I think I saw, like, eating something that tastes really good Mhmm.

有时会让你的多巴胺水平提高一倍。

Increases your dopamine levels by a 100% sometimes.

是的。

Yeah.

但可卡因会让你的多巴胺水平提高十倍。

But cocaine increases your dopamine levels 10 times that.

对。

Yeah.

所以，愉悦体验越强烈，释放的多巴胺就越多。

So the more intense the pleasurable experience is, the more dopamine gets released.

因此，它确实与之相关。

So it's definitely associated with it.

他们发现，多巴胺并不会让你感受到愉悦。

What they found is, like, the dopamine is not making you feel pleasure.

还有其他因素参与其中。

There's something else involved.

虽然从未找到确凿的证据，但每次发现尸体时，它都总在场。

It's just it's never caught with the smoking gun, but it's always there when the dead body's found.

它脸上带着神秘的微笑，因为它知道你无法证明任何事。

And it has this mysterious smile on its face because it knows you can't prove anything.

是的。

Yeah.

这其实是喜欢和想要之间的区别。

It's well, it's liking versus wanting.

这是一种关于奖励行为的理论，喜欢指的是那种愉悦感，那种你获得的快感。

And that's a theory of reward behavior where liking is that that pleasure, that that hit you get.

对吧？

Right?

当你把一口花生酱派放进嘴里时，那种感觉就是愉悦。

When you put that bite of peanut butter pie in your mouth is that pleasure.

想要是获得奖励的动力，这种奖励来自于吃那块花生酱派。

Wanting is the motivation to earn the reward that you get out of having that peanut butter pie.

对。

Right.

比如，你知道的，你待在酒店房间里。

Like, you know, you're up in the hotel room.

他们没有客房服务。

They they don't have room service.

但你可以从床上起来，穿上衣服，走下楼梯，因为电梯坏了，然后去弄到那块花生酱派，只要你真的想吃。

But you can get up out of bed, and you can get dressed, and you can get down the stairs because the elevator's broken and get that peanut butter pie if you want to.

但多巴胺本身并不足以让你有动力起床去拿那块花生酱派。

But dopamine isn't enough to motivate you to get up and go get that peanut butter pie necessarily.

即使你对它在舌尖上的味道有非常美好的回忆，而且你非常喜爱那种东西。

Even though you have great great memories of the taste of it on your tongue and you'd love that stuff.

对。

Right.

但如果你真的起床去拿那块花生酱派，那就意味着你过去曾经吃过花生酱派，或者你脑海中构建了一个从未真正吃过的花生酱派的完美形象，以至于多巴胺分泌量足够大，促使你起床、穿衣、下楼去拿那块花生酱派。

But if you do get up and go get that peanut butter pie, that means that in the past, you've had peanut butter pie or have created an image of the peanut butter pie you've never had that's so great that the dopamine is is produced in enough amounts to actually get you up out of bed dressed and going down the stairs to get that peanut butter pie.

它们就是以这种方式相关的。

They're related in that way.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

所以它实际上并不会带来愉悦感。

So it's not actually causing the pleasure.

它只是影响你的大脑如何处理所有这些信息。

It's just influencing how your brain is taking all this stuff in basically.

嗯。

Mhmm.

关于这个过程的发生，有几种不同的理解方式。

And there are a couple of different ways of looking at how this happens.

有一种理论称之为预测误差。

There's one theory called a that it's prediction error.

对，没错。

So Right.

基本上，你会获得更大的回报。

You get you get more bang for your buck, basically.

你本来以为会喜欢那块花生酱派，但这次却是你吃过的最棒的花生酱派。

You you expected to like that peanut butter pie, but this was the best peanut butter pie you've ever had.

也许是你一生中吃过的最好的甜点。

Maybe the best dessert you've ever had in your life.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你心想，哇。

And you're like, wow.

你的大脑会说，这比我想的要好太多了，所以它强化了这种体验。

That your brain says, that was way way better than I thought it was gonna be, so it reinforces it.

对。

Right.

用计算术语来说，多巴胺就是预测误差。

And to put it in kinda computational terms, dopamine is a prediction error.

某种意义上，这种化学物质衡量了你预期与实际获得的惊人奖励之间的差异。

Somehow that chemical measures the difference between what you expected and the amazing reward you got.

差异越大，多巴胺在‘去拿花生酱派’和‘吃花生酱派’之间建立的关联就越强烈。

And the greater the difference, the more pronounced the connection that dopamine is gonna make between going and getting peanut butter pie and eating peanut butter pie.

所以下次你会更有动力去做这件事。

So you'll have more motivation to do it next time.

是的。

Yeah.

另一种理解方式是，多巴胺本身就是动机信号。

The other way of thinking about it is the the dopamine itself is the motivational signal.

它促使我从床上爬起来、穿上衣服，真正走下楼梯，因为我有动力去获得那个奖励。

So it's what makes me get out of that bed and put on my clothes and actually go down those stairs because I'm motivated to go get that that reward.

对。

Right.

这就是那个‘觉醒’轶事的由来。

And this is where that awakenings anecdote comes in.

来听听吧。

Let's hear it.

你刚才提到，花生酱派激励你从床上起来并真正行动起来。

So you were talking about how, you know, the peanut butter pie motivating you to get out of bed and actually go.

这确实与研究结果一致，特别是奥利弗·萨克斯在《觉醒》一书及后来的电影中所描述的内容。

That definitely jibes with research, particularly something reported by Oliver Sacks in the book and then later the movie Awakenings.

曾经爆发过一种名为脑炎性嗜睡症的疾病，罗伯特·德尼罗饰演的角色就患了这种病。

There was a a an epidemic of something called encephalitic lethargia, which is what happened to Robert De Niro's character.

记得小时候，他染上了这种病，然后就突然僵在原地不动了。

Remember as a boy, he caught this thing and then he just kind of froze in place.

嗯。

Mhmm.

在这种情况下，你会发展出如此严重的帕金森症状，以至于根本无法移动。

It's where you develop Parkinson's symptoms so much that you just don't you can't move.

你完全无法动弹。

You don't you're you're you cannot move.

你体内缺乏足够的多巴胺来实现动作。

You have you don't have the required dopamine to actually move.

因此你就那样僵在原地，像一尊雕像。

So you're just sitting there frozen in place like a statue.

但任何看过这部电影的人都会对这一幕感到震惊。

But anybody who saw this movie remembers being amazed by this scene.

如果某个病人受到刺激，其多巴胺水平被适度提升，他们就能克服这种僵住的状态。

If a certain patient is stimulated, their dopamine is stimulated just enough, they can actually overcome that being frozen in place.

因此有一个著名场景，奥利弗·萨克斯朝一位病人扔了一些橙子，是的。

And so there's a famous scene where Oliver Sacks tossed one of the patients some oranges Mhmm.

她接住了橙子。

And she caught them.

她原本像一尊冻结的雕像，突然间开始接住橙子，甚至还能抛接它们。

Like, she was a frozen set you, and all of a sudden she's catching oranges and then juggles with them.

是的。

Yeah.

还有另一个病人，我记得是在海滩上，坐在轮椅里，看到有人溺水，于是被激励着站起来去救人，然后又回到那种冻结如雕像的状态。

Or there's another patient that was on the beach, I believe in their wheelchair, saw someone drowning, and was motivated to get up and go save the person, and then come back and and go back to this frozen statue kind of stasis.

精彩的场景。

Great scene.

确实如此。

It is.

所以，这与多巴胺的激励作用有关——在适当的刺激下，即使像帕金森症状这样严重的状况，也能被这种多巴胺冲击所克服或压倒。

So, like, that that has to do with the motivational aspect of dopamine and that given the right stimulus, even something that tremendous as just just a crazy amount of Parkinson's symptoms can be over overcome or overwhelmed by that dopamine hit.

对。

Yeah.

绝对如此。

Absolutely.

然后回到第一个例子，关于预测误差，研究人员对赌博、玩牌和玩老虎机的人进行了研究。

And then jumping back to that first one, the prediction error, they've done research on people who gamble, who play cards and play the slot machines and stuff.

当他们几乎赢的时候，他们的大脑会经历与真正赢时差不多多的多巴胺活动。

And they their brains experience about the same amount of dopamine activity when they almost win.

比如你在玩扑克时，桌中央有个大彩池，你最后一刻输了，你的多巴胺水平几乎和你真的赢了时一样。

Like you got the big pot in the middle of the table, you're playing poker, and you'd lose at the last second, your dopamine level will be about the same as if you had actually won it.

是的。

Yes.

这相当惊人。

Which is pretty remarkable.

然后我认为这可以算作第三种解释。

And then I think it kinda qualifies as a third interpretation.

我最近看到的最新研究认为，多巴胺本质上是我们学习能力的基础。

The the most current study I've seen sees dopamine as essentially the thing that allows us to learn.

如果你把两件事联系起来，那是因为多巴胺让你建立了这种联系。

If you connect one thing to another, it's because dopamine had you make that connection.

然后，根据这两者对你的影响程度，这种联系可能会非常非常强烈。

And then depending on what kind of effect those two things have on you, that connection might be very, very strong.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，你会有动力去再次寻求它。

So you're motivated to go seek it out again.

但从根本上说，多巴胺的作用是让我们形成联系。

But at base, what dopamine is doing is allowing us to form connections.

想象一下这个世界。

Imagine the world.

如果我们无法将一件事与另一件事联系起来。

If we didn't connect one thing to another.

比如，如果我没有把打开电脑、走到麦克风前并录制播客这些行为联系起来，我们就什么都做不了。

Like, if I didn't connect turning on the computer and stepping up to the microphone and recording a podcast, like, we wouldn't do anything.

如果我们无法建立联系，就会完全迷失方向，而多巴胺似乎正是这一切的基础。

We would just be completely lost if we couldn't make connections, And it seems like dopamine is the basis of all that.

是的

Yeah.

挺酷的

Pretty cool.

比如，整个世界都会受影响，因为我们不录播客了，查克。

Like, the whole world would suffer because we wouldn't be podcasting, Chuck.

哦，这有争议。

Oh, that's debatable.

你知道，我们并不是否认成瘾和多巴胺之间有着紧密联系。

You know, we we're we're not poo pooing the idea that addiction and dopamine are are heavily tied with one another.

我们只是想指出，关于多巴胺，还有很多其他因素在起作用，而这些因素可能被不公平地忽视了。

We're just sort of trying to point out that there's a lot of other things at play when it comes to dopamine, and that sort of is unfairly maybe gotten all the press.

没错。

But Right.

我们确实还得再多聊聊这个。

We do have to talk about it some more.

我们已经多次讨论过这个问题，尤其是在我们关于成瘾的播客集里。

We talked about it plenty of times, certainly in our in our addiction podcast episodes.

但它在药物滥用和成瘾中确实扮演着相当重要的角色。

But it does play a a pretty big role in drug abuse and addiction.

它确实强化了这样一种观念：你想要继续使用这些药物，因为它们让你感觉良好。

It does reinforce the, you know, the the idea that you want to keep using those drugs because it's making you feel good.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当我们谈到电影里那个 juggler 橙子的女人，以及这件事有多么了不起时。

And when we're talking about, you know, you're talking about the woman juggling oranges in that movie and how remarkable that is.

对。

Right.

如果给患者使用帕金森药物，让大脑中多巴胺泛滥，研究发现，有百分之十的接受这种治疗的人会变成赌博成瘾者。

If they've given you Parkinson's drugs and they just flood your brain with dopamine, they found that ten percent of the people that have had that treatment turn into gambling addicts.

我猜其中一些人本来就已经有赌博习惯。

And I would imagine there are people who already gambled.

我不认为这促使他们开始赌博。

I don't think it like drove them to start gambling.

但这恰恰说明了多巴胺大量释放对大脑的影响有多大。

But that just goes to show you the power of like what a flood of dopamine will do to your brain.

而且这种方式来应对问题相当笨拙，我觉得。

And it's pretty clunky way to to deal with it, think.

是的。

Yeah.

我想你之前提到的关于体积传递的理解就是这个意思。

I think that's what you were referring to earlier when you were saying like that understanding of volume transmission

对。

Yeah.

多巴胺释放的理论。

Theory of of dopamine release.

这些药物就是基于这个原理。

That's what the drugs are based on.

就像这种理解，或者这种误解。

Like, that understanding or that misunderstanding.

而且，是的，这就是发生的情况。

And like, yeah, that's what happens.

就像这样，如果它在大脑中蔓延并接触到任何能触发的神经元，就会产生各种连锁反应。

It's like, yes, if it does crawl across the brain and runs into whatever neurons that it can trigger, it's gonna have all sorts of other knock on effects.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Totally.

所以，我们目前对多巴胺与成瘾关系的理解是，它将药物与愉悦感联系起来。

So I guess our current understanding of how dopamine relates to addiction is that it connects drugs with pleasure.

正如我之前所说，体验越强烈，尤其是奖励越强烈，即使是一种负面体验，我认为他们也开始发现多巴胺与此也有关系。

And as I was saying before, the more intense the experience, especially the reward, you can have a negative experience, and I think they're starting to figure out dopamine has something to do with that too.

但据我们所知，奖励越强烈，多巴胺的释放就越猛烈，从而在按杠杆和科学家给你大量甲基苯丙胺之间建立起更强的关联。

But as far as we know, the more intense the reward, the the greater the flood of dopamine, and so the greater the the stronger the connection you make between, you know, pressing a lever and a scientist giving you a bunch of meth.

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

但需要明确的是，这仅仅是导致成瘾的诸多因素之一。

But that is, to be clear, just part of the recipe of what leads to addiction.

也许有人这么说，但我不确定真有人认为成瘾完全是多巴胺造成的。

I don't maybe there are people out there saying that, but I don't know if anyone really is saying like it's all because of dopamine.

不是。

No.

它只是其中一部分，此外显然还涉及你的基因。

It is part it is part of the recipe in addition, obviously, to your genetics.

药物的存在和可获得性，以及环境压力和影响，都是因素。

Just the fact that drugs are out there and available, and there are environmental pressures and influences.

人们开始吸毒或继续吸毒的原因多种多样。

All kinds of reasons that people start to take drugs or continue to take drugs.

至于持续使用方面，多巴胺确实是其中一部分原因。

And as far as the continuation, dopamine is is definitely a part of it.

对。

Right.

因此，你学会吸毒的方式不仅仅是因为大脑被多巴胺大量冲击，从而形成了强烈的关联，而是大脑实际上会因这些持续的多巴胺激增而发生改变。

And so one of the ways that you learn to take drugs is not just from the the fact that your your brain is flooded with dopamine, which allows you to make that connection very strongly, but the brain actually changes in response to those increased floods of dopamine.

因为大脑并不是设计用来长时间反复如此大量释放多巴胺的。

Because it's not set up to release dopamine like that repeatedly over long periods of time.

它偶尔可以做到一次。

It can do it once in a while

是的。

Yeah.

但你不能太频繁地这么做，因为大脑会通过关闭多巴胺受体来做出反应。

But you you you can't really do it too often because then the brain responds by shutting down dopamine receptors.

问题是，这意味着你必须服用更多药物才能获得那种感觉，而这正是成瘾循环的成因。

The problem is is that this means that you have to do more drugs to get that sensation as far as you know, and that's what creates the cycle of addiction.

对我来说，这听起来有点过时了。

That to me smells vaguely of being almost out of date.

是的。

Yeah.

我明白你的意思。

I know what you're talking about.

但这么说来，理想的药物应该是能最大程度地释放让人感觉良好的化学物质，同时最小化多巴胺的释放。

But it does make sense then that the ideal drug would trigger a maximum release of feel good chemicals, but a minimum release of dopamine.

如果有人真能研制出这样的药物，人们就可以一直吸毒而不会上瘾。

If anybody could ever come up with a drug like that, people would be able to do drugs all the time.

他们永远不会上瘾。

They'd never get addicted.

当然。

Sure.

但你知道，它们对身体还有其他负面影响。

But, you know, they have other negative effects on the body.

是的。

Sure.

是的。

Sure.

不能忘了这一点。

Can't forget about that.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

另一个糟糕的地方是，显然，如果你要摄入足以让多巴胺受体关闭的药物量，因为你的身体会说：等等，等等，等等。

The other bad thing, obviously, if you're gonna do the amount of drugs it takes to shut down your dopamine receptors because your body's like, wait, wait, wait.

这不对。

This isn't right.

让我关掉它。

Let me shut this down.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

不仅仅是关闭多巴胺受体才会让你想要，你知道的，吸更多可卡因或其他毒品。

Is it's not just shutting down the dopamine receptor that makes you wanna, you know, do more cocaine or whatever.

仅仅是关闭你的多巴胺受体。

It's just shutting your dopamine receptors down.

你之前提到过快感缺失，意思是说你从任何活动中都感受不到愉悦。

So you mentioned it earlier, anhedonia, that's the idea that you don't receive pleasure from any activity.

如果你的多巴胺系统因为吸毒而被完全抑制，导致你从生活中得不到任何愉悦的刺激，那么这可能是你更想吸毒的另一个原因。

And if all of a sudden your dopamine has been shut down such because you've been doing drugs that you're not getting any kind of pleasant feel good stimulation from life, then that could be another reason that you up your desire to do drugs.

是的。

Yeah.

还有另一个因素，就是多巴胺受体位点减少了。

And then there's one other factor involved that with fewer dopamine receptor sites.

你还记得你说过，其中一条多巴胺通路与执行功能有关，比如冲动控制、责任感这类事情吗？

Remember you said that one of those dopaminergic pathways is related to executive function, like impulse control, responsibility, that kind of stuff?

是的

Yeah.

由于多巴胺水平降低，理论认为你更有可能采取冒险行为来获取毒品。

Well, with lower levels of dopamine, the theory goes that you are more likely to engage in reckless behavior to get drugs.

你可能会做平时不会做的事，这不仅仅是因为你作为一个成瘾者必须得到毒品，部分原因也是因为你失去了以往的自控能力，因为你对药物上瘾后，多巴胺受体开始关闭。

You might do things that you normally wouldn't do, not because you're just this this addict who has to have it, but partially also because you don't have the impulse control that you did before you became addicted to to drugs and your dopamine receptors started shutting down.

是的

Yeah.

我认为这一点我们在成瘾应用里也讨论过。

And I think that's I mean, we talked about it in the addiction app.

这不仅仅是药物对身体的直接影响，以及它在生理上带来的负面效应，还包括你在药物影响下、渴望更多毒品、甚至可能找不到毒品时所采取的行为，这些行为可能比生理上的后果更糟糕，你知道吗？

That's it's not just the effect that the drug has on your body, the the negative effects that it physiologically has on your body, but the behaviors that you start engaging in when you're under the influence of drugs and want more drugs and maybe can't find the drugs, that's maybe almost worse than the physiological ramifications, you know?

哦，是的

Oh, yeah.

当然

For sure.

这也与风险承担有关，因为多巴胺与风险承担密切相关。

And it also ties in with risk taking because dopamine is connected to risk taking.

事实上，他们发现有些人由于多巴胺水平的原因，在生物学和生理上更容易倾向冒险。

And in fact, they found that some people seem to be biologically, physiologically predisposed to risk taking based on their dopamine levels.

事实上，他们发现这些人拥有的自体受体更少。

That in fact, they find that they have fewer what are called auto receptors.

据称，随着时间推移，人类进化出在多巴胺神经元上形成一种称为自体受体的位点，能够捕获部分多巴胺。

Apparently, over time, we've evolved to create on dopamine neural cells a site called the auto receptor that actually catches some of the dopamine.

它有助于调节多巴胺水平。

It helps regulate it.

就像这些多巴胺根本无法释放出去一样。

Like, it never makes it out.

因此，它能将多巴胺的浓度维持在受控水平。

So it keeps the amount of dopamine down to a regulated level.

所以，如果你的自体受体越少，但仍然持续释放多巴胺，那么多巴胺产生的影响就会大得多。

So the fewer auto receptors you have, if you're still pumping out dopamine, you get a much greater impact from that dopamine.

他们已经将这一点与风险承担联系起来。

And they have correlated that to risk taking.

根据一些研究，多巴胺自身受体较少的人会承担更多风险。

People who have fewer dopaminergic auto receptors take more risks, at least according to some studies.

是的。

Yeah.

他们还进行了研究，发现这种风险行为应当或必须与某种奖励相关联，比如收益。

And they've also done studies where they found that that risk should or needs to be tied to a reward, like a gain, basically.

嗯。

Mhmm.

2015年伦敦大学学院的一项研究指出，当受试者的多巴胺水平通过药物人为提高时，如果涉及潜在收益，他们会更频繁地选择高风险选项。

There was a study from the University of College in London in 2015 that said subjects whose dopamine levels was higher, it was boosted artificially with medication, would choose risky options more often if it involved a potential gain.

但如果涉及潜在损失，他们就没有表现出同样的倾向。

They didn't see that same thing going on if there was a potential loss involved.

因此，这确实与收益有关，或者说得更准确一点，是与奖励相关。

So there's definitely a tie to a gain or or another way of saying that would be a reward.

是的。

Yes.

此外，冲动控制也是ADHD症状的一个显著特征。

And then also that impulse control is also a huge hallmark of ADHD symptoms.

因此，ADHD通常与某种形式的多巴胺缺乏有关。

And so ADHD is very commonly associated with some sort of dopamine deficiency.

根据我的了解，目前还没有发现一种普遍适用的、可以明确界定的特定大脑类型。

And from what I've seen, there isn't a like, an across the board we haven't discovered some across the board type of brain that's like, yep.

如果你有这样的脑部特征，就会患有多动症，反之亦然。

If you have this brain, have ADHD and vice versa.

我们甚至还不完全确定多巴胺具体产生了什么影响。

And we're not even certain exactly what effect the dopamine is having.

我们几乎只是在观察多动症患者的行为表现，然后说，嘿。

We're almost just kind of like seeing effects that that are the behavior of people with ADHD and saying, hey.

我们知道多巴胺会引发那些行为。

That we know that dopamine does that.

或者如果你缺乏多巴胺，你就更有可能做出这种行为。

Or if you don't have dopamine, you're more likely to do this.

所以这里存在一种相关性。

So there's this correlation.

但这一直没能被完全证实。

It's just not we it's it's never been, like, completely shown yet.

我认为总有一天会得到证实，但我们目前还不清楚ADHD与多巴胺之间的具体联系。

I think it probably will be at some time, but we don't really know how ADHD is linked to dopamine.

但我们几乎可以确定，多巴胺至少驱动了部分ADHD症状。

But there's we're almost certain that dopamine drives at least some of the ADHD symptoms.

正是因为这一点，人们在理解上取得了突破。

It's just because of that, people have made leaps in understanding.

长期以来一直有一个关于ADHD患者的迷思，认为他们做出冲动行为是为了获得多巴胺的刺激。

Like, there's a there's a a long standing myth about people with ADHD that they do these impulsive behaviors to get a hit of dopamine.

这源于一种旧观念，即多巴胺是一种产生愉悦或奖励的化学物质。

Well, it's based on that old idea that dopamine is a a pleasure producing chemical or reward producing chemical.

相反，人们之所以表现出这些冲动行为，可能是因为他们缺乏能够调节冲动的多巴胺，因此自控力更弱。

Where instead it it might be that people do these behaviors that are impulsive because they don't have the dopamine that can regulate their impulses, And so they have less impulse control.

我们还在理清这个问题，我想。

It's we're just still sorting it out, I guess.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

我们在这里做最后的休息好吗？

Should we take our final break here?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Alright.

我们休息一下，之后聊聊社交媒体，哦天啊，这一定会非常有趣。

We'll take a break and we'll talk about, oh, boy, it's gonna be so much fun, social media right after this.

2023年，一个故事震惊了英国，引发人们的恐惧与难以置信。

In 2023, a story gripped The UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

本应负责照顾婴儿的护士，如今成了现代英国历史上最猖獗的儿童杀手。

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

每个人都以为他们知道结局如何。

Everyone thought they knew how it ended.

一个判决，一个恶人，一名叫露西·莱特比的护士。

A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

露西·莱特比已被判有罪。

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

但如果我们没有听到完整的故事呢？

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

当你一看

The moment you look at the

整个情况，这个案子就崩塌了。

whole picture, the case collapses.

我是阿曼达·科诺克斯。

I'm Amanda Knox.

在新的播客《露西·莱特比案》中，我们将追踪证据，倾听亲历者的声音，探究当世界决定露西·莱特比是谁时，究竟发生了什么。

And in the new podcast, The Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

没有任何质疑或怀疑的声音。

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

这会在每一个层面上造成巨大的伤害。

It'll cause so much harm at every single level

英国体制对此事的判断是错误的。

of the British establishment that this is wrong.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或您常用的播客平台收听《疑点：露西·莱特比案》。

Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

中国国家安全部是世界上最神秘、最强大的情报机构之一。

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world.

但在2017年，联邦调查局成功渗透了进去。

But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

这位是特别探员雷格尔，特别探员布拉德利·霍尔。

This is special agent Regal, special agent Bradley Hall.

这名中国国家安全部官员并不知道美国政府已经盯上了他。

This MSS officer has no idea the US government is on to him.

但联邦调查局掌握了他所有的聊天记录、短信、电子邮件，甚至他的私人日记。

But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary.

请收听《第六局》播客，了解他们是如何获取这些信息的。

Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.

我现在掌握了数太字节的中国国家安全部官员的资料，毫无疑问，毫无疑问，

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question,

他的全部生活细节。

of his life.

这简直是独一无二的。

And that's a unicorn.

从来没有人见过这样的情况。

No one had ever seen anything like that.

这简直难以置信。

It was unbelievable.

这是一个关于 MSS 内部运作的故事，一个人的野心与错误揭开了它的秘密宝库。

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《第六局》。

Listen to the sixth bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是乔·温斯坦因，《灵性女儿》播客的主持人，我们在这里讨论占星术、星盘以及如何活出最充满活力的人生。

This is Jo Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

我刚刚和一位迷你司机坐了下来。

And I just sat down with a mini driver.

这位爱尔兰旅行者说，当我 16 岁时，你会在男人身上经历一段艰难时光。

The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men.

演员、故事讲述者，以及毫不掩饰的水瓶座愿景家。

Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.

水瓶座崇尚自由和不同的视角。

Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

我发现很多水星位置强大的人常常被误解。

And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like, are misunderstood.

她第七宫的太阳和金星在水瓶座，激发了她对亲密关系的非传统态度。

A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to to partnership.

他真的教会了我接纳人们睡在不同的房间、不同的房子、不同的地方，只是接纳事物本来的样子

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of

这一切。

it all.

如果你正在经历自己的转变，或者只是想从一个领先艺术家的角度，了解她如何将占星、创意与现实生活融合，这一集绝对不容错过。

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen.

请从2月24日起在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台收听《Spirit Daughter》播客。

Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

好的。

Alright.

我们回来了，之前答应过要聊聊社交媒体，因为现在大家都很清楚，通知、提示音、点赞、喜爱、爱心，以及所有与各种社交媒体平台互动时出现的东西。

So we're back and we promised talk of social media because I think everyone is pretty hip to the the fact now that notifications and the and the dings and the likes and the loves and the hearts, and all the things that come to various interacting with various social media platforms.

你听起来

You just sound

真老啊，老兄。

so old, dude.

我知道。

I know.

这很好。

That's great.

在这种情况下，我喜欢自己变老。

In this case, I love being old.

我一点都不想要这些。

I don't want any of it.

我同意你的观点。

I'm with you.

但无论如何，所有这些东西结合在一起会给你带来多巴胺的刺激，而且这种刺激是特定的，你会觉得：好吧，这挺好，随它吧。

But in any case, all of that stuff combines to give you a hit of dopamine and it's specific and you're like fine, that's great, whatever.

但这些平台的设计和编码方式就是专门让你对这个社交媒体平台上瘾的。

But it's specifically structured and built that way and coded that way, so that you will become addicted to that social media platform.

而且他们已经承认了这一点。

And they have admitted as such.

2018年，当他们被传唤去国会作证时，这曾是重大新闻，但我记不清具体细节了。

In 2018, it was a big news item when they were I don't know.

当时好像是国会听证会之类的。

It was like congressional testimony or something.

我记不太清了，但有一位Facebook的副总裁站出来，基本上就是说：嘿，这是我们故意做的。

I can't remember exactly, but there was a VP at Facebook who came out and was basically like, hey, this is something we did on purpose.

而其中最核心的基石，就是那句让人印象深刻的原话，描述了人们如何使用我们的平台。

And it was a core foundation was the really the quote that kinda stuck out with how people behave using our platform.

这正是核心战略的一部分，就是为了让人一次又一次地回来。

Like, it was a part of the the core strategy to get people to come back again and again and again.

是的

Yeah.

这一策略基于查莫斯·帕利哈皮亚，他曾是Facebook用户发展部门的副总裁。

And that strategy was based on this was Chamath Palihapedia, who was a VP of user development at Facebook.

他们表示，这基于短期的多巴胺驱动反馈循环。

And they said that this was based on short term dopamine driven feedback loops.

当然，对我们来说，这些都已经不是什么新鲜事了。

And, you know, this is all old news to us now.

我的意思是，这已经是六年前的事了。

I mean, this was six years ago.

想想我们如今对社交媒体如何影响我们的理解已经进步了多少。

Think about how much our understanding of what social media does to us.

但在2018年，那是一个具有突破性的承认。

But in 2018, that was a groundbreaking admission.

但这是事实。

But it's true.

我的意思是，这基本上就是社交媒体的工作方式。

And I mean, that's essentially how social media works.

比如，你下载了这个应用，然后开始意识到，当那个小小的徽章数字弹出来，说嘿。

Like, you get the app and you start to realize that if that little, like, badge number comes up and says, hey.

你有两条通知。

You have, like, two notifications.

你就点进去。

You go into it.

你会得到某种形式的奖励。

You're gonna get some sort of reward of some sort.

你会像你说的那样，听到一声提示音、收到一个赞、一个爱心，或者类似的东西。

You're gonna, like you said, get a ding or a like or a heart or something like that.

这对你就是一种奖励。

And that is a reward to you.

因此，根据多巴胺的中脑边缘理论，我们会获得多巴胺的刺激，从而学会反复回来。

And so based on the the mesolimbic theory of dopamine, we get a dopamine hit and so we learn to come back.

而且显然，随机性也与此有很大关系。

And apparently also randomness has a lot to do with it.

因为当我们开始能够预测何时会获得奖励时，多巴胺就不再成为整个体验的一部分了。

Because the as we start to be able to predict when we'll get a reward, that dopamine stops being a part of that whole experience.

所以如果奖励是随机的，我们就无法知道何时会得到奖励。

So if it can be done randomly, we don't know when we're gonna get a reward.

这种随机性能最大程度地释放多巴胺，从而不断促使我们反复回到社交媒体。

It has a maximum effect of releasing dopamine and thus teaching us to go back to social media over and over and over again.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Totally.

还有一位名叫卡梅隆医生的精神科医生，拼写是 S-E-P-A-H，我想是 Sepah 吧？

There's also this psychiatrist named doctor Cameron, s e p a h, I guess, Sepah?

嗯。

Mhmm.

那么你会这么说吗？

Is that how you'd say it then?

Se pah 还是 se pah？

Se pah or se pah?

好的。

Okay.

这三个中的一个。

One of those three.

嗯。

Mhmm.

有位名叫卡梅隆的医生，s e p a h，我想是 Sepah？他站出来表示：‘我提出一个术语，叫做多巴胺禁断。’

Who came out and said, alright, there's this term that I'm gonna float out there, and it's called a a dopamine fast.

当初提出这个概念时，人们听到后说：‘哦，原来多巴胺只是一个笼统的术语，基本上泛指任何类型的成瘾行为或强化机制。’

And the idea when that was floated was people heard that, and they said, oh, well, dopamine just means just it's just a catch all term basically for for any sort of addictive behavior, like reinforcement.

你可以进行多巴胺禁断，比如把那个社交媒体应用放下几周。

And you can go on a dopamine fast and, like, you know, put that put that social media app down for a couple of weeks.

当你回来时，你的大脑会从这件事中得到一点休息，等你再回来时，你会觉得特别享受它带来的感觉。

And when you come back, it's just gonna like, your brain's gonna have a little rest from that thing, and you're gonna feel amazing about how much you love it when you come back.

但这完全不是卡梅隆医生的意思或他想表达的内容。

And that's not at all what doctor Cameron was talking about or meant.

不是。

No.

西帕医生基本上是说，他误用了‘多巴胺断食’这个说法。

Doctor doctor Sipa Sipa was basically saying like like he really misused dopamine fast.

他还对《纽约时报》说：我不是那个意思。

And he even said to the New York Times, like, I didn't mean it like that.

别这么理解。

Don't don't take it like that.

我不是字面意思。

I don't mean it literally.

但大家都说：太晚了。

And everybody said, too late.

我们会字面意思去理解。

We're gonna take it literally.

所以曾经出现过一种运动，我想现在还有人这么做，就是完全自我克制，比如人们不再与他人互动。

And so there was a this this movement, I think people still do it, of self denial of everything from like, people stopped interacting with other people.

人们不再吃他们觉得美味的食物。

People stopped eating foods they found pleasurable.

他们如果不是非说不可，就不说话。

They stopped talking if they didn't need to.

任何可能带来多巴胺释放的行为。

Anything that could conceivably give you a release of dopamine.

他们的整个前提假设是，如果这样做，就像戒除海洛因或可卡因一样排毒。

And the whole their their premise was that if they did that, it would be like going and drying out on heroin or cocaine.

这样当你重新体验海洛因或可卡因时，那种第一感觉会更加震撼，因为你已经重新补足了内源性大麻素、阿片类物质等等。

So that when you come back, that that first experience again with heroin or cocaine is that much more amazing because you've kind of replenished your endocannabinoids and opioids and all that stuff.

多巴胺并不是这样运作的。

Dopamine does not work like that.

如果你停止向大脑大量输送多巴胺，它并不会恢复。

If you stop flooding your brain with dopamine, it doesn't replenish.

它不需要恢复。

It doesn't need to replenish.

事情不是这样的。

That's not how it works.

但人们就是这么做的。

But that's what people were doing.

他们完全误解了这一点，这建立在错误的科学基础上，而西帕医生本质上使用了错误的术语。

They just completely misinterpreted it, and it was based on faulty science and doctor Sipa essentially using the wrong term.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为他想表达的是：放下这些东西，去做其他让你感到快乐的事情。

I think the idea that he was talking about was, hey, put that stuff down and go do other things that you find pleasure in.

对。

Right.

活在现实世界中，或者到大自然里去，重新掌控自己的生活。

Live in the world or go out in nature or kind of get a hold of your life again.

这样你就不会觉得自己的幸福依赖于这个社交媒体应用了。

So you don't feel like you're tied to this social media app for your happiness.

是的。

Yeah.

我们妈妈以前会说，去外面玩一会儿。

Our moms used to call it going to play outside for a while.

对。

Right.

或者夏天，这以前还有另一个叫法。

Or summer, I think is another term it used to be called.

是的。

Yeah.

但这个人却称之为多巴胺戒断，结果人们完全误解了。

But instead, this guy called it a dopamine fast and people really took a left turn with it.

所以他列出了六种强迫性行为或类别，他认为通过戒除情绪性进食、过度使用互联网和游戏、赌博和购物、色情和自慰、追求刺激和新鲜感，你可以很好地改善自己的生活，而我把这理解为暂停一下刺激性的杀人狂飙行为。

So he identified six compulsive behaviors or categories that he was saying you could really you could really do a good for yourself by taking a a dopamine fast or a break from emotional eating, excessive Internet usage and gaming, gambling and shopping, porn and masturbation, thrill and novelty seeking, which I took to mean taking a break from thrill kill murder sprees

对。

Right.

还有娱乐性药物。

And recreational drugs.

是的。

Yeah.

但他也说，任何让你感觉被控制的事物，只要你停下来并远离它，它对你的生活就会失去一些控制力。

But he also said, you know, anything that you feel like is got a hold on your life, if you just stop and step away from it, it will have less a hold of your life.

所以对很多人来说，看电视肯定也包括在内。

So TV would definitely be in there probably for a lot of people.

是的。

Yeah.

但如果你退一步看看这个人所说的内容，这其实是人类几百年来一直在做的最基本的事情。

But if you step back and look at what this guy's talking about, it's the most basic thing that people have been doing for eons.

但只要贴上‘多巴胺禁食’这个标签，它就变得流行、热门、充满头脑风暴，甚至像Java风暴一样，变得超级企业化。

And yet just by slapping dopamine fast on it, it became sticky and buzzy and brainstormy or java stormy and, like, super corporate.

人们纷纷热衷于此，开始认为：如果我进行多巴胺禁食，等我恢复后，我的多巴胺水平会飙升，成为最有动力、最专注、史上最棒的用户体验产品经理。

And people just really got into it and started thinking like, you know, if I if I fast from dopamine, when I come back, I'm gonna have so much dopamine that I'm gonna be the most motivated, focused, greatest UX PM of all time.

是的。

Yeah.

非常感谢。

Thanks a lot.

但不幸的是，事情根本不是这样运作的。

And that's just not how it works, unfortunately.

没错。

No.

对。

Yeah.

我想这算是以一种奇怪的方式结束了整个话题，但事实就是这样收尾的。

I guess it's a weird way to end this whole thing, but that's how it ends.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这是我们目前的理解。

I mean, that's our current understanding.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得五年后我们再回过头来重新做一次，应该是可以做到的。

I feel like this is one we would be able to do five years from now just to kinda revisit.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

不了。

Nah.

好吧。

Okay.

我的意思是，我们从来没这么做过。

I mean, we've never done that.

这就是2024年我们对多巴胺的理解，各位。

That's dopamine as we understand it in 2024, everybody.

没错。

That's right.

如果你想更多了解多巴胺，去读一些相关资料，但一定要谨慎选择阅读对象。

If you wanna know more about dopamine, go out and read about it, but be very specific and selective of who you go read.

外面有一些真正懂行的知名人士，但也有不少根本不懂的人。

There are some popular people who know what they're talking about out there, but there's plenty that don't.

所以，如果你遇到有人把多巴胺称为‘快乐化学物质’之类的说法，直接转身走开，去找别的人了解。

So I guess if you run across somebody who refers to dopamine as a pleasure chemical or something like that, just turn around and walk away and go find somebody else.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得怎么样，查克？

How about that, Chuck?

听起来不错。

That sounds good.

查克说听起来不错，各位，这意味着该听听众来信了。

Chuck said that sounds good, everybody, and that means it's time for listener mail.

我将从一位指挥家的角度来读这封信。

I'm gonna call this from a conductor.

到目前为止，我们已经收到了不少指挥家的来信，而这只是发布后的第一天。

We heard from quite a few conductors so far, and that's just on day one after release.

知道外面有人比我们更了解这些东西，真是太棒了。

So it's pretty great to know that there are people out there that know about this stuff better than we do.

这太惊人了。

That's amazing.

嘿，各位。

Hey, guys.

非常感谢你们做的关于指挥家的那期节目。

Thank you so much for the episode about conductors.

当我开始一小时的通勤时，在我的信息流里看到这期节目，我激动得尖叫起来。

I squealed with joy when I saw it in my feed as I started my hour long commute.

我教高中管弦乐，同时也是一名管弦乐演奏家，曾经有志于成为一名专业指挥。

I teach high school orchestra, and I'm an orchestral orchestral, excuse me, musician with former aspirations of becoming a professional conductor.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以听到局外人的视角真的很有趣。

So it's fun to hear an outsider's perspective.

你可能会好奇演出时每位乐手的谱架上到底放着什么。

You're wondering what exactly is on each musician's stand during a performance.

我很喜欢查克的比喻，说这就像演员的剧本，只包含自己的台词，这确实很贴切。

I love Chuck's analogy of it being like an actor script with only their lines, and that's pretty close.

但有时，乐谱上会有一些小注释，提示你注意其他声部的演奏，尤其是在长时间休止或静音之后，帮助你确定自己在乐曲中的位置。

But sometimes, there are small annotations of what to listen for from other sections of the orchestra, particularly after a long section of inactive playing or rests, to help figure out what you where you are in the music.

就是这部分，我记得我简直不敢相信，居然会没有任何提示来给你cue。

That's the part, remember, I just couldn't believe there'd be like nothing to cue you.

我还看到过一些情况，里面有时会有数字标记，其他指挥家也说会有长条标记之类的东西，你需要特别留意。

And I saw other stuff where there were sometimes numeric notations, and other conductors said there were long bars and things that you would pay attention to.

不过我们还是回到邮件上。

Back to the email though.

好的。

Okay.

这是指挥的另一个关键职责，你之前没怎么提到，那就是他们拥有完整的总谱。

This is another key job of the conductor, which you didn't touch on as much, is they have the entire score.

他们经常为特定的乐手或声部给出进入提示。

They often give entrance cues to specific instrumentalists or sections.

此外，通常还会有一些排练标记，用来标示乐句或较大段落的开始。

Additionally, there are usually rehearsal markers that delineate the beginnings of phrases or larger sections.

这不仅使排练更加容易，也为演奏者提供了更大的结构和支撑。

This not only makes rehearsing easier, but also gives greater structure and scaffolding to the player.

这类似于小说中的标点符号或段落结构。

It's similar to punctuation or paragraph structure in a novel.

有经验的音乐家往往能够凭借对作品和音乐句法的上下文理解，几乎完全凭感觉把握进入时机。

Experienced musicians can often almost more or less feel their entrances based on their contextual knowledge of the piece and the music phrasing.

你需要它。

You need it.

有一句老话是说，你在家里练习是为了掌握自己的部分。

There's an old adage that you spend your time practicing at home to learn your part.

排练时间是用来学习其他人部分的。

Rehearsal time is spent learning everyone else's.

哦，这很酷。

Oh, that's cool.

很不错。

It's pretty good.

指挥是这一过程的促进者。

The conductor is a facilitator of this process.

你们说得太对了，各位。

You hit the nail on the head, guys.

乐谱的诠释者。

The interpreter of the score.

这是来自布列塔尼的。

That is from Brittany.

天啊，查克，我们做到了。

Man, Chuck, we did it.

是的。

Yeah.

我想有四五个指挥都发来消息，说我们做得相当不错。

We got I think four or five conductors all wrote in and said, like, we did a pretty darn good job on it.

所以这感觉很棒。

So that feels great.

告诉我，他们说‘ Bravo ’了吗？

Tell me, they said bravo?

我没看到‘ Bravo ’。

I didn't see a bravo.

没有。

No.

抱歉。

Sorry.

也许我们有一天会得到。

Maybe we'll get one someday.

是的。

Yeah.

这很不错。

That's pretty good.

这是谁写的？

Who is that from?

布兰妮？

Britney?

是的。

Yeah.

布兰妮。

Britney.

非常感谢你，Britney。

Thanks a lot, Britney.

我们非常感激。

We appreciate that.

也要感谢所有写信来的指挥家们，谢谢你们所有人。

And to all the conductors who wrote in, thank you to you all.

如果你也想像所有写信来的指挥家那样，像Britney一样，你也可以给我们发邮件。

And if you wanna be like all the conductors who wrote in like Britney, you can send us an email too.

请发送到 stuffpodcast@iHeartRadio.com。

Send it off to stuffpodcast@iHeartRadio.com.

《你该知道的事》由iHeartRadio制作。

Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

要收听更多播客，请访问iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts，或你收听最爱节目的任何平台。

For more podcasts, My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

我是克莱顿·内卡德。

I'm Clayton Neckard.

2022年，我

In 2022, I

是ABC电视台《单身汉》的主角。

was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

但问题是。

But here's the thing.

单身汉粉丝们讨厌他。

Bachelor fans hated him.

如果我能按下一个按钮让一切重来，我会这么做。

If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

那时，他的生活发生了令人不安的转折。

That's when his life took a disturbing turn.

一夜情最终走向了法庭。

A one night stand would end in a courtroom.

媒体来了。

The media is here.