精选：自由放养式育儿法如何运作

她是芝加哥郊区的一名学校辅导员。

She's a school counselor in Suburban Chicago.

我们还应该指出，这也取决于你住在哪里。

We should also point out, depends on where you live as well.

如果你住在非常安全的郊区或偏远乡村，情况和城市中心的孩子会有些不同。

If you live in a very safe suburb or way out in the country, it's a little different than a kid like in the middle of the city or something like that.

是的。

Yeah.

但她从二年级开始就给予孩子很大的自由空间，并让一些邻居家长参与进来，让他们的孩子也这样做。

But she gave her kid a lot of free range starting in the second grade and got some neighborhood parents involved in letting their kids do it.

他们说，不知不觉中，这群孩子就开始自己在 neighborhood 里四处逛荡，她不断收到这些家长发来的短信，说孩子发生了巨大的变化，嗯。

And they said before you know it, they had this little, you know, little gang of kids kinda touring around the neighborhood on their own, and she's getting all these texts from these different parents saying like what a big change has happened Mhmm.

在他们自己的孩子身上。

In their own kid.

有一位家长甚至说，这对她女儿来说是改变人生的经历，给了她前所未有的自信，而这正是自由放养理念所能带来的效果。

One parent even said it was life changing for her daughter, gave her a nuisance of confidence, and that's sort of what the free range thing can look like.

但就像你所说的，这一切归根结底是缓解对表象的恐惧，最大的恐惧就是我的孩子会被绑架，或者有性侵者盯上我的孩子，或者更糟的是，我的孩子会被绑架并杀害。

But like you were saying, it all comes down to assuaging appearance fear, the biggest fear, which is my child will get abducted or my child will get there'll be a sexual predator to target my child, or heaven forbid, my child will will get kidnapped and murdered.

没错。

Right.

因为你能理解，很难去责怪那些不希望孩子独自在外游荡的父母，因为他们害怕孩子会遭遇严重的不幸。

Because you can understand, and it's really tough to fault somebody who doesn't want their kid wandering around by themselves because they're afraid that something really bad is gonna happen to their kid.

所以，要采取自由放养孩子的态度，第一步是调整你看待世界的方式。

So kind of the first step to to adopting like a free range kid attitude is to adjusting how you see the world.

他们认为，有好几件事——这对我来说非常有趣。

And they think they think that with there there are several things like if you it's really fascinating to me.

我特别喜欢文化变迁，尤其是当我们能指出各种不同的变化时。

I love cultural changes, especially when we can point to different things.

是的。

Yeah.

一些看似无关的事情，却共同汇聚在一起，以你从未想过的方式改变了世界。

Seemingly unrelated things that all kinda converge and has changed the world in ways you never think of.

这似乎促成了当今的直升机父母，至少造就了这样一种恐惧氛围：世界本质上是危险、残酷、残忍的，孩子们根本不该独自到处乱跑。

That seems to have happened to produce today's helicopter parents, or at least to produce the level of of fear, the climate of fear that the world is an inherently dangerous, brutal, sadistic place that had that where children have no call to be wandering around themselves.

实际上，你可以追溯到上世纪七十年代末到八十年代初发生的一系列事件的交汇。

That that is actually you can trace that back to a convergence of things that have happened starting in like the late seventies and early eighties.

特别是，在1979年至1981年间发生了几起备受瞩目的儿童谋杀案。

And in particular, there were some high profile child murder cases basically that all kind of took place between 1979 and 1981.

这些案件彻底改变了众多父母的看法。

And those really changed a lot of parents' minds about things.

是的。

Yeah.

在纽约，六岁男孩埃顿·帕茨失踪，后来被发现遭到了谋杀，这是一则令人心碎的故事。

In New York, the very sad story of six year old Eaton Pats disappeared and was later found out to have been murdered.

约翰·沃尔什非常有名，他的儿子亚当被绑架，他现在主持着许多电视节目。

John Walsh, very famously, his son Adam, he's the one that does all the TV shows now.

我想他现在在CNN的《通缉要犯》节目里，是的。

I think he's on the hunt on CNN now Yeah.

并将此作为他一生的事业。

And really made this his life's work.

但他的儿子亚当在1981年失踪并遇害。

But his son Adam disappeared and died in 1981.

显然，1979年至1981年亚特兰大的儿童谋杀案，以及你提到的这些奇怪事件在同时发生，彼此交织。

Obviously, the Atlanta child murders from '79 to '81, and this all converged around the same time, like you were talking about, these these strange things aligning.

有线新闻开始兴起。

Cable news coming out.

CNN于1980年成立。

CNN was launched in 1980.

是的。

Yep.

于是，父母们突然开始不断从新闻中接收到关于孩子安全的持续恐惧信息。

So all of a sudden, have parents that are getting this kind of constant flow of fear from the news about their children.

没错。

Right.

因为在有线电视新闻和24小时新闻出现之前，如果某个州的孩子发生了什么事，只有当事件特别恶劣、耸人听闻，或者各种条件恰好凑齐时，才可能引起全国媒体的关注，全美都会听说这件事。

Because so if if a prior to cable news, twenty four hour news, if something happened to a kid somewhere in in some state, maybe if it were just particularly egregious or outrageous or everything was kind of set up in just the right way, it would capture the attention of the national media and you'd hear about it around the country.

但这种情况真的非常罕见。

But that was really really rare.

其次，另一个你可能会听到儿童绑架、儿童谋杀或儿童遭遇可怕事故的地方，是本地新闻。

And then second to that, the other place that you would hear about child abductions, child murder murders, horrific like accidents that befell a child would be locally.

对吧？

Right?

比如在你当地的新闻里，可能扩展到整个地区，甚至整个州，但基本上还是局限于本地。

Like on your local news that maybe expanded to a region, maybe the state, but it was pretty localized.

所以，如果统计上这类事件本身发生频率就很低，你也不会经常听到相关报道。

And so if statistically something like that happened fairly rarely, you weren't gonna hear about it very often.

因此，在你心目中，这种事情非常罕见，你也不会对整个世界感到恐惧。

And so in your mind, it was a pretty rare thing and you weren't afraid of the world in general.

但许多评论员，以及我在研究中遇到的一些人提出，有了有线电视新闻之后，可供报道的、发生在儿童身上的可怕事件的范围，就扩展到了全国。

But what a lot of commentators and a lot of well, some of the people I ran across in research propose is that with cable news, that potential pool of horrible things that befell kids to talk about expanded to the entire nation.

不只是本地、地区或州级，而是整个国家。

Not just local, just regional or even state, but the whole nation.

因此，现在全国所有发生在孩子身上的坏事都成了潜在的新闻素材。

So now, all the bad things happening to all the kids around the nation was potential news fodder.

当你观看CNN时，似乎每隔一个故事就是关于某个孩子被绑架、杀害、性侵或遭遇其他可怕事情的报道。

And so when you were watching CNN, it seemed like every other story was about a kid who had been abducted and killed or sexually assaulted or any number of horrible things.

真的没有别的说法能更好地形容这一点。

And there's really no way to put it other than that.

这类内容能让人们牢牢盯着电视不放。

That kind of stuff keeps people glued to their televisions.

因此，像CNN这样的新闻网络有充分的理由持续提供这类内容，因为当你盯着电视时，你也同时盯着它们播放的广告。

And so it's really in the best interests of news networks like CNN to feed people that because while you're glued to your television, you're also glued to the ads that they show too.

因此，这种模式催生了一种恐惧氛围，许多人认为这就是根源。

And so from this model came a climate of fear that a lot of people point to is like, this is the source.

这不仅仅是CNN的问题。

And it's not just CNN.

CNN被指认为这一切的始作俑者。

CNN gets pointed to because it was the one that started it all.

正是泰德·特纳提出了这个想法，并创办了第一个24小时有线新闻网络。

That was Ted Turner who came up with this and started the first twenty four hour cable news network.

但所有有线新闻都难辞其咎，并且很快也陷入了这种模式，因为这就是有线新闻的运作模式。

But all cable news is guilty of this and became guilty of it pretty quickly because that's the model of cable news.

由于有线新闻奠定了这种模式，并展示了这种内容确实能带来可观的收入。

And because cable news laid that foundation and showed like, oh, you got that kind of you can really make some revenue.

晚间新闻曾尽力抵制这种倾向，但也不得不稍稍跟进。

Nightly news tried its best to resist that kind of thing, but it kinda had to follow suit a little bit too.

因此，从八十年代起，晚间新闻也变得更加耸人听闻。

So it would become more sensational from the eighties onward as well.

虽然远不及有线新闻那么夸张，但与以往相比，它确实更加 sensationalized，因为它追随了有线新闻的模式。

Not nearly anything like cable news, but compared to how it had been before, it was much more sensationalized because it was following that cable news model.

所有这些因素加在一起，造就了人们之所以对世界感到极度恐惧的根源——因为我们以为世界比实际情况危险得多，而这种认知是由于我们不断听到这些事件，导致统计数据被人为放大了。

And all that put together created the the foundation of why people are just scared to death about the world because we we think that it's way more dangerous than it actually is because the statistics are inflated by hearing about this stuff all the time.

是的

Yeah.

还有另外几件事，斯凯纳齐指出了。

And there's another couple of things that contributed that Skenazi has pointed out.

第一，我们生活在一个她称之为专家社会的时代。

One, we live in what she dubs an expert society.

所以，无论是在有线新闻还是社交媒体上，你转头就能看到另一个专家推出新书，基本上在告诉你作为父母你哪里做错了，应该怎么去做。

So again, on cable news or on social media, like everywhere you turn, there's another expert coming out with a new book they're trying to sell, basically telling you how you're doing it wrong as a parent, how you should do it.

然后，我们现在生活在一个非常容易提起诉讼的社会中。

And then the whole fact that we live in a very litigious society now.

如果我想让孩子自由成长，他们跑出去找朋友，一起骑自行车，结果其中一个受伤了呢？

So what if I wanna free range parent my kid and they go down and and get their friend out of the house and they're riding bikes and one of them gets hurt?

难道他们的父母会因为我的孩子把他们引诱到‘危险的街道’上而起诉我吗？

Like, are their parents gonna sue me because my kid went and and lured them into the into the mean streets?

对。

Right.

嗯，是的。

Well, yeah.

查克，上世纪七十年代还发生了另一件事，过失责任的概念变得非常重要，出现了一场所谓的侵权法革命——以前你可能觉得，你家孩子不知道对方孩子的胳膊会断，所以不能因此被起诉；但现在不一样了，这被认定为过失，而且越来越多的判例扩大了这种认定，导致人们越来越依赖律师。

That was another thing that happened, Chuck, in the seventies, the idea of negligence became really big and there's what's called like a tort revolution to where you went from, well, you know, your kid was your kid didn't know your the other kid's arm was gonna get broken, so you can't get sued for that to, no, that was negligent and we're going to allow that and more and more case law expanded to to to make people think like lawyers because of it too.

伙计，你小时候，那肯定是个普遍现象吧？你有没有因为别的孩子而面临过被起诉的威胁？

Dude, when you were a kid, was I mean, that must have been a thing because did you ever have the the lawsuit threat from another child?

是的。

Yeah.

那确实是个普遍现象。

That was such a thing.

我们那时候就是这样的。

We're like, yeah.

我要揍你一顿之类的。

I'm gonna I'm gonna kick your butt or whatever.

就是啊。

It's like, yeah.

好吧，我爸爸会因为你所有的钱起诉你。

Well, my dad's gonna sue you for all the money you got.

没错。

That's right.

他是个牙医。

He's a dentist.

回想七十年代，孩子们互相威胁要起诉，真是滑稽啊。

It's so funny, man, to think back in the seventies, these children threatening lawsuits on one of them.

是的。

Yeah.

我都忘了这回事了。

I'd forgotten about that.

就因为扯破了对方的衬衫之类的事。

For like ripping their shirt or something.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

任何事情都可能引发一声‘是的’。

Any number of things could could generate a Yeah.

但是

But

最终，斯卡尼亚齐说，我认为这是一个非常相关的观点，她说，所有这些因素综合起来，让父母们相信，由于恐惧，他们必须无所不知、无所不能，时刻监控孩子的一举一动。

in the end, Scaniazi says, and this is I think a pretty relevant quote, she said, all of this stuff combined has convinced parents that they have to be both omniscient and omnipotent because of fear and monitor every single move that your kid makes.

所以，我们先休息一下，稍后回来聊聊关于孩子们在街上是否真的面临危险的实际情况。

So let's take a break, and we're gonna come back and talk a little bit about the the facts about whether or not your kids are really in danger out on the streets, right after this.

现在，当你在路上开卡车时，想不想向乔什和查克学点东西

Well, now when you're on the road, driving in your truck, wanna learn a thing

或两招。

or two from Josh and Chuck.

这些都是你应该知道的内容。

It's stuff you should know.

好的。

Alright.

2023年，一则故事震惊了英国，引发人们的恐惧与难以置信。

In 2023, a story gripped The UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

本应负责照顾婴儿的护士，如今成了现代英国历史上最猖獗的儿童杀手。

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

每个人都以为自己知道结局如何。

Everyone thought they knew how it ended.

一个判决？

A verdict?

一个恶人？

A villain.

一名叫露西·莱特比的护士。

A nurse named Lucy Letby.

露西·莱特比已被判有罪。

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

但如果我们没有听到完整的故事呢？

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

当你看到整个情况时，这个案子就站不住脚了。

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

我是阿曼达·诺克斯。

I'm Amanda Knox.

在新的播客《质疑：露西·莱特比案》中，我们追踪证据，倾听亲历者的声音，探究当世界决定露西·莱特比是谁时，究竟发生了什么。

And in the new podcast, Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

没有任何质疑或怀疑的声音。

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

如果这是错误的，将会对英国体制的每一个层面造成巨大伤害。

It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

请在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《质疑：露西·莱特比案》。

Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

你好。

Hi.

我是乔·温斯坦因，《灵性女儿》播客的主持人，我们在这里讨论占星术、星盘以及如何活出最充满活力的人生。

This is Jo Winterstein, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

我刚和一个迷你驾驶员坐下来。

And I just sat down with a mini driver.

爱尔兰旅行者说，当

The Irish traveler said when

我16岁的时候，你会在男人身上经历一段艰难的时光。

I was 16, you're gonna have a terrible time with men.

演员、讲故事的人，以及毫不掩饰的水瓶座先知。

Actor, Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.

水瓶座完全代表着对自由的热爱和不同的视角。

Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.

我发现很多水瓶座能量强烈的人，常常被误解。

And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius, like, are misunderstood.

她第七宫的太阳和金星激发了她对伴侣关系的非传统态度。

A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

他真的教会了我接纳人们睡在不同的房间、不同的房子、不同的地方，只是全然接纳一切的存在状态。

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

如果你正在经历自己的转变，或者只是想从一个领先艺术家的角度了解占星术、创造力与现实生活是如何融合的，这一集绝对不容错过。

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must listen.

从2月24日起，在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《灵性女儿》播客。

Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

如果思想控制是真实存在的呢？

What if mind control is real?

如果你能控制身边任何人的行为，你会拥有怎样的人生？

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

你能通过催眠说服一个人买一辆车吗？

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

当你看着你的车时，你会被一种强烈的美好感受淹没。

When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

你能催眠一个人，让他和你发生关系吗？

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

我给了她一些建议，让她产生性冲动。

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

你能让人加入你的邪教吗？

Can you get someone to join your cult?

有人用神经语言程序学（NLP）来接触我的潜意识。

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

神经语言程序学（NLP），即神经语言程序设计，是催眠、语言学和心理学的结合。

NLP, aka neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.

粉丝们说，这就像终于拿到了大脑的用户手册。

Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

这关乎意识的工程化。

It's about engineering consciousness.

《心灵游戏》讲述的是NLP的故事。

Mind Games is the story of NLP.

它有着一群狂热的追随者，以及一个在新时代公社里发明了NLP并将其卖给西装革履之人的假医生。

It's crazy cast of Disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits.

他曾因谋杀受审，但最终被判无罪。

He stood trial for murder and got acquitted.

最大的心理游戏是什么？

The biggest mind game of all?

NLP 可能真的有效。

NLP might actually work.

这太疯狂了。

This is wild.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《心理游戏》。

Listen to mind games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

好的，查克。

Alright, Chuck.

所以，就像我们之前说的，别因为让孩子自己从公园走回家之类的事就吓得要死。

So like we were saying to to not be just scared to death because you're letting your kid say walk home from the park or something like that unsupervised.

你必须改变自己的思维方式。

You you have to go through a change in mindset.

你得停止认为这个世界非常非常可怕。

Like you have to stop seeing the world is a very very scary place.

有时候，统计数据其实还挺让人安心的。

And sometimes statistics can be actually kinda comforting.

因此，自由放养儿童运动确实将其中一个核心支持点建立起来了。

So the free range kids movement has really, you know, made one of its foundational support poles.

你可能会以为我这段时间应该越来越擅长这个了，但并没有。

And you'd think I would actually be getting better at this all this time, but no.

看你这样磕磕绊绊地讲这些，有时候还挺可爱的。

Love it sometimes to watch you stumble through something like that.

无论如何，他们经常谈论统计数据，特别是与儿童相关的犯罪数据。

Anyway, they talk a lot about statistics and crime statistics related to kids in particular.

当你以冷静客观的眼光看待这些数据时，就会发现这个世界其实并没有那么危险。

And when you look at them in the cold hard light of the day, it doesn't seem like it's a very dangerous world after all.

是的。

Right.

如果你看这些数字，国家失踪与受剥削儿童中心表示，在两万七千起儿童失踪案件中，仅有百分之一属于非家庭绑架。

If you look at the numbers, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children says that just one percent of the twenty seven thousand missing children cases are non family abductions.

而且这还包括朋友和熟人。

And that also includes, like, friends and acquaintances.

所以，如果你说的是一个完全陌生的人在游乐场绑架你的孩子，这种情况极其罕见。

So if you're talking about literally a stranger targeting your child and plucking them off a playground, it is exceedingly rare that that happens.

是的。

Yeah.

那一百分之一是非家庭成员绑架。

And that so one percent is non family.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

但那甚至还没有进一步细分，比如是家庭朋友或熟人所为的情况。

But that also doesn't even break down like if it's a friend of or an acquaintance of the family or something like that.

所以，陌生人很少很少很少会绑架你的孩子。

So little strangers snatching your kid rarely rarely rarely happens.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，即使包括那些家庭的朋友——不是直系亲属但孩子认识的人，非陌生人，2017年有270名儿童遭遇了这种情况，总数大约是27,000名儿童，我想。

So even even that, even including like friends of the family, somebody who's not a direct family member but known to the kid, a non stranger, that's 270 kids that that happened to in 2017 out of '22 twenty seven thousand, I think.

这对那些被绑架的孩子来说，真是令人痛心。

Which is that's awful for those kids that they were kidnapped.

对吧？

Right?

当你抛出这样的统计数据时，很容易就认为‘就是这样了’。

There's that's that's another thing too is when you throw out statistics like this, it's really easy to be like, see that was it.

但你不想这么做，因为对那270个家庭来说，这正是他们唯一在乎的事。

But you you don't wanna do that because to those 270 families, that that's that's all that matters.

当我们讨论这些统计数据时，这一点也非常重要。

And that's really important to remember as well when we're kind of tossing out these statistics too.

是的。

Yeah.

而且并不是要轻视家庭绑架，这确实如此。

And not to make light of family abductions, which is Sure.

你知道，绑架案件中只占1%。

You know, 1% of abductions.

这些案件同样可怕且极具创伤性。

Those are horrific and traumatic as well.

是的。

Yeah.

我们只是在讨论最根本的恐惧：如果我让孩子去公园，一个陌生人就会把他们带走

We're just talking about the bare bones of like the fear that if I let my kid go to a park, a stranger's gonna pluck them

抓走。

out.

对。

Right.

所以，即使如此，如果你看一下数据，2017年美国所有儿童中，有两万七千名儿童失踪，而其中绝大多数是离家出走。

So so but and so even that, even if you look at it, it's twenty seven thousand out of all the kids in The United States in 2017, twenty seven thousand of them were went missing in 2017, and the vast majority of them ran away.

所以，如果你担心孩子因为去公园就被陌生人拐走，自由放养育儿理念的人会说，根据统计数据，这种可能性极小，根本不值得因为这种极小概率的意外而限制孩子的行动自由。

So if you're worried that your kid is going to get plucked by a stranger specifically out of a park somewhere because you let them go to the park, what the free range parenting people are saying, if you look at the statistics, the chances of that are so small that it's actually not worth limiting your kid's freedom of movement because of that outlier possibility.

他们认为，对这种风险做出如此过度的反应是完全没有必要的。

It just doesn't it's just a disproportionate response to that risk is what they're saying.

对。

Right.

如果你想讨论最糟糕的情况，那就是儿童谋杀。

If you wanna talk about the worst thing that you can imagine, which is a child murder.

从1980年到2008年，关于五岁以下儿童被谋杀的统计数据显示，63%的情况下是父母所为，其次是23%。

From 1980 to 2008, statistics about murders of children under five years old, sixty three percent of the time, the parents are the ones who did it, followed by twenty three percent.

所以加起来总共是86%。

So that's eighty six percent total.

23%是男性熟人所为。

Twenty three percent are male acquaintances.

比如妈妈的男朋友之类的。

So like, you know, mom's boyfriend or something like that.

对。

Right.

7%是其他亲属。

7% are other relatives.

因此，所有幼童谋杀案中只有3%是陌生人所为。

So only 3% of all murders of young children are strangers.

对。

Right.

所以再次强调，别把吉恩斯穿错了。

So again And again, dress Jinx.

我们讨论的是对陌生人伤害孩子的恐惧，而不是轻视其他统计数据。

We're addressing the fear of strangers doing something to your child, not making light of these other statistics.

还有一些父母会说，很好。

And there are parents out there who are like, good.

够了。

That's enough.

这件事发生在任何一个孩子身上，都让我想要保护我的孩子，确保他们不会遭遇这样的事。

That's the fact that it happens to one kid makes me wanna protect my child and make sure that they don't do that.

好的。

Okay.

你是家长。

You're the parent.

你就是这样养育孩子的。

You're you're raising your kid in that that way.

我明白。

I understand.

但再说一遍，自由放养孩子的支持者们说的是，这真的值得吗？

But again, what the what the free range kids people are saying is, like like, is it really worth that?

也就是说，这种反应真的值得吗？

Like, what what about that is is I mean, is it really worth that kind of a response?

我们会谈到这一点，因为如果你说完全保护孩子没有任何负面影响，那么自由放养孩子的倡导者们就没什么可说的了。

And we'll get to we'll get to that because you could say like if there were no negative aspects of of completely ensconcing your kid in protection, then the free range kid advocates wouldn't have anything.

他们可能会说，好吧，随便吧。

They could be like, okay, well, whatever.

这就是你对你孩子所做的事情。

That's what you're doing with your kid.

但有人怀疑，不惜一切代价保护孩子，不让他们接触任何风险，实际上会对孩子的成长造成损害。

But there's suspicions that they that actually is detrimental to the development of a kid, protecting them from everything at all costs.

我认为这也是自由放养育儿理念的核心主张之一。

And I think that's one of the big other foundational platform post tenants of the free range kids thing.

那一个是为了炫耀。

That one was for showing off.

好的。

Alright.

所以，正如你所说，要让父母接受自由放养的育儿方式，不能只是因为我想偷懒或者想回到我的童年。

So building on that, like you like you were saying, like, there there there has to be like, in order to get a parent on board with a free range parenting lifestyle, it's not just I wanna be lazy or I wanna go back to my childhood.

而是一位认为这样做确实有实际好处的父母。

It's a parent who thinks there are actual benefits to doing so.

对。

Right.

而且这种好处超过了你所说的那种风险，比如孩子独自一人时发生意外的概率只有3%、1%或者0.5%。

And that outweighs the risk, like you were saying, of the 3% chance or the 1% or the point 5% chance that something's gonna happen to my kid if they're on their own.

有越来越多的证据表明，所有这些为孩子安排活动的努力，都忽略了一个养育健康、适应良好儿童的关键基本要素，而这个要素正变得越来越缺失，那就是所谓的自由玩耍。

There is evidence, and it's growing and growing evidence that all these efforts to schedule all these activities for your kid are overlooking one big fundamental element of raising a healthy, well adjusted child that seems to be getting lost more and more, which is something called free play.

美国儿科学会发布了一份报告，指出自由玩耍有助于促进社交——抱歉。

The American Academy of Pediatrics has a report out that said that free play promotes social I'm sorry.

社交？

Social?

我喜欢这个说法。

I like it.

这是一种新的表达方式。

It's the new the new way of saying it.

社交、情感、认知、语言和自我调节能力，这些都能培养执行功能和亲社会的大脑。

Social, emotional, cognitive language, and self regulation skills that build executive function and a pro social brain.

玩耍对于学习21世纪的技能至关重要，比如解决问题、合作与创造力，以及对成人成功至关重要的执行功能技能。

And play is fundamentally important for learning twenty first century skills like problem solving, collaboration and creativity, and executive functioning skills that are critical for adult success.

对。

Right.

他们最后加了这一条，意思是：好吧，也许玩耍有好处，但它不会对孩子的未来有帮助。

And they threw that last one in to be like, well, okay, maybe play's good, but it's not gonna help them in life.

但他们说，不，玩耍实际上会对他们的生活有所帮助。

And they're saying, yes, it will actually help them in life.

而如果你阻止他们玩耍，本质上就是在婴儿期就开始把他们塑造成一个小大人，这让我觉得很有意思，查克。因为在19世纪之前，孩子从五岁左右开始，就有一份工作。

And that by keeping them from playing, you're basically creating a little adult from from the nursery, which is interesting to me Chuck because prior to the nineteenth century, when you were a kid starting around age five or something, you you had a job.

如果不是在自家农场帮忙，也许就是帮妈妈洗别人送来的衣服。

If it wasn't around like your family's farm, maybe you were helping out with the wash that your mom took in.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

但那时候，根本就没有‘童年’这个概念。

But then you like, there was no such thing as childhood really.

然后我们逐渐远离了那种状态，开始发展出童年这一概念。

And then we moved away from that and we developed childhood.

而现在，似乎我们正在远离童年。

And now it seems like we're moving away from childhood now.

我们把孩子从农场劳动中解放出来，

We're taking kids and they're not they're not working on the farm.

却把他们塑造成小小的CEO、市场总监和品牌经理之类的人物。

We're making them little CEOs and marketing directors and brand managers and stuff like that.

但他们在这种交换中失去了童年，我想这就是他们想表达的意思。

But they're they're losing their childhood in that bargain is I think what what they're saying.

而从玩耍的角度来看，玩耍本身就有价值，哪怕只是为了它自身的意义。

And from play specifically, play helps, but it helps also like just in and of itself for its own sake.

但玩耍最终也会在长远带来帮助。

But it also helps eventually down the road.

这是一种投资，我认为，连直升机父母都能理解它的回报。

It's an investment that will pay off, I think, in terms that helicopter parents can understand.

是的

Yeah.

还有另一位名叫彼得·格雷的人。

There's another guy named Peter Gray.

他是一位发展心理学家。

He's a developmental psychologist.

他写了一本叫《自由学习》的书，并且我认为他还创立了一个非营利组织，叫Let Grow。

He has a book called Free to Learn and founded a nonprofit, I believe, with yeah.

施纳齐称之为Let Grow。

Schenazy called Let Grow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

这里有个文字游戏。

Little play on words there.

是的。

Yes.

他基本上说，如果你回溯人类进化史，孩子们的教育是通过与同龄人玩耍实现的。

And he basically says that, you know, if you look back through human evolution, children, their education was through play with their peers.

如果你看看当今世界上各种社会和文化，我的意思是，你会如何分类这些文化？

And if you look at societies and cultures in the world today that I mean, how would you classify these cultures?

传统社会？

Traditional societies?

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

也许吧。

Maybe.

但他们说，那些仍然能自由玩耍和探索的孩子，如果任由他们发展，会一直持续到青春期。

But they say that that children of these cultures that still play and explore freely, if they're left to do that, they will do so into their teen years.

这就像是一种本能，他们自然地渴望与同龄人一起自由玩耍。

Like that is their natural instinct, is to be among their peers free playing.

对。

Right.

但我觉得，直升机父母对玩耍这个概念的一个问题是，觉得这是在浪费时间。

But so and so like I think one of the problems that helicopter parents have with the idea of play is that like it's it's a waste of time.

孩子本可以学习拉大提琴，或者做数学闪卡，为自己的未来打下更好的基础。

The kid could be learning like cello or you know, doing math flashcards or like creating a better foundation for a better future for themselves.

如果他们不这么做，就会落后。

And that if they're not doing that, they're falling behind.

所以彼得·格雷和他的一些同事说：不，不，不。

And so what Peter Gray and some of his are saying is like, no no no.

玩耍能以任何其他你所能想到的、或由成人引导孩子去做的事情都无法比拟的方式促进孩子的成长。

Play helps develop a child in ways that no other thing you could possibly come up with or supervisor get them to do can.

因为我们一直以来都是这样做的。

Because this is what we've done all this time.

我们正是通过让小孩子自由玩耍、自己摸索，才构建了如今的社会。

And this is how we've built society is letting little kids play and figure things out on their own.

他说，如果有父母在身边，如果是被监督的，哪怕父母只是在视线或听力范围内，甚至只是在看着孩子，情况都会不一样。

And he says that if there's a parent around, if it's supervised, if there's a parent even within like eyesight or earshot or you know there's a parent watching, it's gonna be different.

必须是无人监督、无结构的玩耍，这样孩子们才能自己制定规则。

It has to be unsupervised, unstructured play so that the kids can be left to make up their own rules.

孩子们可以通过群体来学习，比如实际上，那样并不公平，或者因为你赢不了就拿球回家，这真的不太酷。

Can can be taught by the group that, you know, actually, no, that's not really fair or it's not really cool to take the ball and go home because you aren't winning.

这就是你学习这些东西的方式。

That's how you learn that stuff.

这些都是值得学习的东西。

And those are good things to learn.

这会让你成为一个比学大提琴更善于社交的孩子。

That makes you a more socially well adjusted kid than probably learning cello is going to.

我的意思是，作为父母，你可以尽量通过示范和说教来教导孩子，这都是很有价值的。

Well, I mean, you can try and teach your kid by showing and by telling as much as you can as a parent, and that is all valuable.

但没有什么能比通过与同龄人亲身经历来教会孩子道理。

But nothing will teach a lesson to a kid like learning it through experience with their peers.

对。

Right.

而且

And

我记得我小时候就是这样。

and Like, I remember myself, you know, when I was a kid.

我学到的最重要的教训，都是从同龄人那里学来的。

Like, the the biggest lessons I learned were were lessons that I learned among my peer group, you know.

有些艰难的教训，很多父母可能都想尽量保护孩子不经历，因为那些事情确实很艰难。

Like tough, hard lessons that a lot of parents, I think, try and even shield their kid from because it's tough stuff sometimes.

但你知道，你也不希望孩子遭受创伤之类的事情。

But and you know, you don't want your kid to suffer traumas and things like that.

但别听起来像个五十年代的家长，但这些经历确实有助于塑造孩子的品格。

But and not to sound like a parent from the nineteen fifties, but that stuff does help build your child's character.

我想，这听起来有点老派。

And I mean, I guess that sounds sort of old school.

但它能帮助孩子学会调节情绪，以及如何融入同龄人群体，而最终这会延伸到整个社会。

What it does is it helps them learn how to regulate their emotions and how to fit in with their peer group, which is in turn going to be eventually just society at large.

是的。

Right.

真有趣，你说这听起来像是五十年代的，因为这种‘自由放养式育儿’的理念实际上正是源于斯波克博士的哲学，他是美国最早受到广泛关注的儿童专家之一。

It's funny you say that that sounds kind of fifties because this whole idea of like free range kids is kind of based on that philosophy of doctor Spock, who was like one of the first experts, one of the first child experts that America ever really paid attention to.

他在1946年写了一本书，名叫《婴儿与儿童常识手册》。

And he wrote a book in 1946 called The Common Sense Book of Baby and Child.

他基本上说的，正是现在自由放养型父母所主张的那些观点，比如让你的孩子去玩。

And he basically is saying all the stuff that free range kids parents say is, like, let your kid play.

让你的孩子通过自己探索世界的方式来学习。

Let your kid like learn through their own their own way of like exploring the world.

让他们去冒险。

Like, let them take risks.

让他们做自己。

Let them be themselves.

相信你作为父母的直觉。

Trust your instincts as a parent.

所以，自由放养型父母似乎正在回归到斯波克博士的这种理念。

And so that's what free range parents seem to be kinda getting back to is like the doctor Spock school of thought.

本杰明·斯波克，不是另一个斯波克。

Benjamin Spock, not the other Spock.

不是那种‘生生不息，繁荣昌盛’的斯波克。

Not live long and prosper Spock.

他有名字吗？

Did he have a first name?

天哪，我不知道啊。

Oh, I don't know, man.

我没看过《星际迷航》。

Didn't watch Star Trek.

我也没看过。

I didn't either.

直接告诉我们吧，有上百万人会发邮件的。

Just lay it on us million people who are gonna send the email.

我们在等着。

We're waiting.

有一种叫做内外控量表的东西。

There's something called the internal external locus of control scale.

这名字有点奇怪，但它自20世纪60年代以来就一直存在。

It's an odd name, but this has been around since the nineteen sixties.

这是一种心理指标量表。

It's a psychological indicator scale.

而从20世纪60年代至今，青少年对自己内在控制力的评估在这项量表上发生了显著变化。

And these days, since the nineteen sixties, there's been a big shift in the scale in how teens report themselves and their internal control.

如今，青少年普遍认为自己对生活缺乏内在控制力。

And today, teens report very little internal control over their own lives.

格雷认为，而且我觉得他确实抓住了关键点，如今孩子中普遍存在的焦虑和抑郁与这一点有很大关系。

And Gray believes, and I think he's really onto something here, that these high levels of anxiety and depression among kids these days has a lot to do with that.

他认为这与过去四、五十年自由玩耍的减少直接相关。

And he thinks it's directly related to the decline in free play over the last, you know, forty or fifty years.

对。

Right.

我想说的是，这只是一个心理学家的观点。

Which I wanna say like, this this is like one psychologist's opinion.

这对我来说很有道理，我相信对很多人来说也是如此，但要知道，这并不一定是不可动摇的真理或定论。

It makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm sure it does to a lot of people, but it there's, you know, this is not necessarily like gospel truth or set in stone.

目前尚无定论，但有很多证据表明，过度保护孩子可能会在情感或发展上阻碍他们；而让他们自由探索、独立学习、学会自己爬起来，明白失败并不是世界上最糟糕的事，反而能真正帮助他们成长。

It's the jury's still kinda out, but there's a lot of evidence out there that that does seem like overprotecting your kid can stunt them emotionally or developmentally, and then letting them go be themselves and and learn things on their own and learn that they can pick themselves back up and still survive and failure is not the worst thing in the world can actually help them develop.

我们经常毫不留情地质疑社会心理学的种种说法，而且乐此不疲。

This is it's just like we we routinely shoot holes in in social psychology stuff all the and we do it gleefully.

所以我不想走向另一个极端，仅仅因为 ourselves 同意就认为这个观点一定正确。

So I don't wanna like go the opposite way and just be like, but this one's right because we agree with it.

情况未必如此。

That's not necessarily the case.

我确信很多人并不认同这一点。

And I'm sure a lot of people disagree with it.

但我倾向于支持这种观念，可能是因为我就是这样被养大的。

But I I I tend to kind of favor that that mentality, probably because it's how I was raised.

是的。

Yeah.

就像我说的，说失败能塑造品格听起来像是上世纪五十年代的言论，但事实确实如此。

And like I said, it does sound like I'm from the nineteen fifties, say that failure breeds character, but it, you know, it really does.

这么说有点过于简单了。

It's sort of a simplistic way to say it.

但当你失败时，你 hopefully 能学到一些东西并以此为基础成长，这确实能塑造品格。

But when you fail, you hopefully learn something and build on that, and that does build character.

对。

Right.

字面意义上的。

Like literally.

他们称之为‘风险的尊严’，意思是你在告诉孩子：我让你自己去摸索解决这个问题。

One of the things they call that is the dignity of risk, where you are showing your kid, I'm I'm letting you go figure this out on your own.

另一个关于自由放养型父母的重大误解是，你似乎能从零开始，一眨眼就让孩子独自乘坐纽约的地铁。

And and another big misunderstanding with free range parents is that that you just go from like zero to walking, you know, taking the subway in New York at the flip of a switch.

事情并不是这样的。

That's not how it works.

你会慢慢培养孩子，为那些你写文章谈论的‘大事’做准备。

You you slowly build your kid up for this, you know, the big thing that you write an article about.

但在这之前，你已经进行了数十次、上百次甚至更多的小互动，确保孩子在你最终决定他们准备好了的时候，真的能够胜任。

But there's, you know, dozens or scores or possibly hundreds of little little interactions that you're having to kind of make sure that your kid is up for this when they're finally when you decide they're finally ready to.

这绝不是简单地一按开关就能实现的。

And it's not just like flipping a switch.

这是一个非常深思熟虑、漫长而有计划的过程，但这种计划并不一定告诉孩子，而是建立在信任的基础上。

It's very kind of thoughtful and protracted and planned, but not necessarily shared with the kid that it's planned, paying out of trust.

这样孩子才能向你展示：是的，我已经准备好了。

And so that the kid can show you, yeah, I'm ready for this.

我知道该怎么做。

I know what to do.

我可不会在地铁里蜷缩在地上，哭闹着等别人打911叫警察来接我。

I'm not just gonna like ball up on this on the ground in the subway and and start crying until someone calls 911 and the cops come get me.

是的，没错。

Well, yeah.

我敢肯定，当她第一次送孩子独自坐地铁回家时，绝不是简单地说：‘好了，东西都给你了。’

And I'm sure when she sent her kid on on the subway home that very first time, it wasn't just like, alright, here's the stuff.

再见。

See you later.

我肯定他们进行了一次非常认真的谈话。

I'm sure there was a a very serious talk.

听好了，伙计。

Like, alright, dude.

我相信你。

I trust you.

我让你去做这件事。

I'm letting you do this.

我知道你知道怎么走。

I know you know the way.

我们来试试吧。

We're gonna give this a shot.

要是我在新闻里看到你在时代广场迷路了，那你可就麻烦大了。

Don't if I see you on the news in the middle of Times Square, like, you're gonna be in big trouble.

对。

Right.

我肯定当时做了很多思考和沟通。

I'm sure there was a lot of thought and talk that went into that.

你明白我的意思吧？

And you know what I'm saying?

是的。

Yes.

完全明白。

Totally.

还有孩子们

And kids

孩子们都会接触到这些东西，你知道的。

get that stuff, you know?

是的。

Yep.

当然。

For sure.

我觉得，孩子们比人们通常认为的要聪明得多。

Kids are smarter than people give them credit for a lot of times, I think.

当涉及到法律时，这是一件非常新的事情，很有趣。

It's interesting when it comes to the law because it's such a new thing.

去年，也就是2018年，犹他州成为美国第一个通过所谓‘自由放养育儿法’的州，该法案基本上重新定义了儿童忽视的含义。

In Utah last year, in 2018, became the first state to pass what was called a free range parenting law, where it basically was just sort of redefining what child neglect was.

在犹他州，我本来以为我会持相反观点，但结果却发现该法案实际上是支持和鼓励自由放养育儿的。

And in Utah, I thought I was gonna go the other way when I was reading this, but it actually went the way of sort of encouraging or being behind free range parenting.

新的定义规定，父母不能仅仅因为孩子独自去街上的商店、独自在外玩耍、自己骑车上学，或在父母不在家时独自在家（即使未成年）就被指控为疏忽照顾，这相当有趣。

The new definition, a parent cannot be accused of neglect just because their kid is going to a store by themself that's down the street, or playing outside alone, or biking to school on their own, or at home without a parent there if they're a minor, which is pretty interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

我也这么觉得。

I thought so too.

但大多数自由放养型父母都说：哦，我们可不想住在犹他州。

But most free range parents are like, oh, we don't wanna live to in Utah.

希望我们各州都能出台类似的法律，将自由放养式育儿非罪化。

So hopefully, our states will all come up with similar laws that decriminalize free range parenting.

因为在许多州，像‘钥匙儿童’这样的情况是违法的。

Because in a lot of states, things like latchkey kids are illegal.

如果你的孩子在一定年龄以下独自在家，他们甚至可能被从你身边带走。

Like, you can have your kid taken from you if they are a latchkey kid under a certain age.

我认为在华盛顿州，孩子必须满14岁才能独自留在家中。

I think in Washington, you have to be 14 to be left at home alone.

比如，你可能会失去你的孩子。

Like you you could lose your kid.

因此，尝试自由放养式育儿确实存在很大问题，因为这种直升机式育儿社会也伴随着直升机式社区育儿。

And so there's a real problem with trying free range parenting because part of this helicopter parenting society is also helicopter villaging.

但以前人们看到孩子独自在街上走，会打电话通知家长，现在人们却直接拿起电话报警。

But rather than picking up the phone and calling the parents whose kids you see wandering alone down the street like you used to would have done, now people just call pick up the phone and call the cops.

然后警察会介入，把孩子送到儿童保护服务机构，父母必须前去解释，保证再也不会这样做了，并且非常非常抱歉，否则儿童保护服务机构就会把孩子带走。

And then the cops respond and they take the kid to Child Protective Services, and the parent has to go down and explain that they will never do this again and they're very very sorry or else Child Protective Services will take their kid from them.

因为大多数州都依据所谓的‘儿童最佳利益’原则来裁决，而这完全是主观的。

Because most states rule on what's called the best interests of the child, which is totally subjective.

它并不一定基于任何实际的判例法。

It's completely not based in any actual case law necessarily.

只是儿童保护服务机构的人觉得，那个孩子有没有聪明到能从游乐场自己走回家？

It's just does the Child Protective Services person think that that the kid is is smart enough to walk from the playground to the house?

没有吗？

No?

好的。

Okay.

我们可能会永久带走你的孩子。

Well, we're taking your kid maybe permanently.

因此，以这种方式养育孩子非常危险，因为一旦人们看到你的孩子独自在街上走，就会报警，那时你的监护权就岌岌可危了，这一定是父母可能遭遇的最糟糕的事情之一。

And so it's it's really risky to raise your kid this way because people will call the cops if they see your kid walking down the street and real trouble, your your parentship of your kid is in jeopardy at that moment, which has gotta be one of the worst things that could possibly happen to a parent.

是的。

Yeah.

而在这里，我们实际上回到了这样一个观点：这在很大程度上是一种特权。当涉及到法律、儿童和儿童保护服务时，如果你贫穷，或者你是有色人种或少数族裔，你更有可能被儿童保护服务机构上门访问。

And this is where we kinda we get back to the place of like this is a privilege has a lot to do with this because when it comes to the law and children and child protective services, you are way more likely to get a visit from Child Protective Services if you are poor, or if you're a person of color, or minority.

比如，如果你是一位白人中产或中上阶层的郊区父母，他们可能会在当地杂志上写文章赞扬你让小孩自由活动。

Like, they may write an article about you in the local magazine praising you if you're like a white suburban parent of middle or upper middle class Right.

但像2014年南卡罗来纳州的黛博拉·哈雷尔那样，她并不是因为想成为‘自由放养型’父母才那样做。

For letting your kid free range around.

但像2014年南卡罗来纳州的黛博拉·哈雷尔那样，她并不是因为想成为‘自由放养型’父母才那样做。

But in the case of like Deborah Harrell in 2014 in South Carolina, she wasn't like, oh, I wanna be a free range parent.

她只是说，我是个打工妈妈，在麦当劳上班，刚结束一轮班，我九岁的女儿在附近公园玩，等我下班。

She's like, I am a working mom, and I work at McDonald's, and I'm finishing a shift, and my nine year old daughter is playing at a park nearby until I'm done.

他们把她关了一晚，还把她的女儿带走两周。

And they sent her to jail for a night, and took her daughter for two weeks away from her.

是的。

Yes.

十七天。

Seventeen days.

对。

Yeah.

因此，能否在不被儿童保护服务上门打扰的情况下这样做，很大程度上取决于你的社会特权。

So it it is very much a case of privilege to even be allowed to do this without getting a visit from Child Protective Services.

没错。

Right.

所以，谢纳齐和一些其他自由放养型父母说，这正是我们需要更合乎常理的法律的原因——要将这种行为去罪化，并重新信任父母，相信他们的孩子足够聪明。

So, Schenazy and and some of the other free range parents say, right, this is why we need laws that are much more common sense and decriminalize this kind of behavior and put the trust back in parents to know that their kids are smart enough.

或者如果他们觉得孩子不够聪明，不值得信任去做这些事，他们就不会让孩子这么做。

Or if they think their kids aren't smart enough to be trusted with that kind of stuff, they wouldn't let them do that.

他们认为，无论你是少数族裔，还是何种社会经济地位，这都会对所有人有益。

They argue that this would benefit everybody whether no matter, you know, whether you're a minority or whatever socioeconomic status you have.

是的。

Yeah.

这确实是事实。

Which is which is true.

这相当合理，真的很合理。

That's a pretty it's a pretty sensible it's sensible.

但我认为这突显了更大的问题，那就是，比如，如果学校突然停课，有些人根本无法负担托儿服务。

But I think that that kind of underscores the larger problem, which is, you know, like, some people don't have the choice to to get childcare if the school suddenly cancels class.

比如，你根本负担不起。

Like, you just can't afford it.

那你还能怎么办？

What are you gonna do?

然后你的工作说，你不能把他们带到这里来。

And then your your work says, well, you can't bring them here.

这是工作，你知道的？

This is work, you know?

是的。

Yeah.

你能怎么办呢？

What what can you do?

希望你把孩子养到了可以信任他们去附近游乐场玩耍的程度，你知道的，或者类似的地方。

Hopefully, you've raised your kid to a point where you can trust them to go play, you know, next door at the playground or something like that.

但这并不意味着你不会因此惹上麻烦。

But that doesn't mean that you're not gonna end up in trouble with with the authorities.

所以我们现在也陷入了一个棘手的境地。

So it's a sticky sticky situation that we're in too.

确实如此。

It is.

而且你知道，这还得看你的孩子。

And you know, again, it depends on your kid.

这还取决于你住在哪里。

It depends on where you live.

比如在我哥哥的社区，如果我住那儿，我七岁时就会让女儿自己出去玩。

Like, in my brother's neighborhood, if I live there, I would let my kid go out and do what she wanted when she was like seven.

那里太安全了。

It's just so safe.

没错。

Right.

孩子们独自到处活动，就像我们小时候那样。

And kids are everywhere on their own doing stuff, very much like it was when we were kids.

我家旁边是一条非常危险、车流密集的街道。

At my house, I live next to a super scary busy street.

我根本不会让她一个人出家门。

Like, I would never let her out of the front of my house.

但即使她才三岁半，我们也经常让她一个人去后院自己玩。

But even at three and a half, we let her go in the backyard by herself and do stuff all the time.

是的。

Right.

我的意思是，就在上个周末，她一个人在后院和狗玩，我大概半小时后才出去。

I mean, just this past weekend, she was out in the backyard and with the dogs, and I went out about a half an hour later.

她正提着洒水壶在花园里走着，一边唱《We Will Rock You》。

She was walking through the garden with a watering can singing We Will Rock You.

我当时就想，好吧。

And I was like, alright.

一切都没问题。

Everything's fine.

但再说一遍，她是在我封闭的后院里。

But again, she's in my enclosed backyard.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我没太担心。

I wasn't sweating it.

我绝不会直接打开前门，然后说去玩吧。

I would I would never just open the front door and be like, go have fun.

纪念大道就在那儿。

Memorial Drive's right there.

对。

Right.

车都在开

Cars are going

对。

Right.

时速60英里。

60 miles an hour.

但这正是重点。

But that's the point.

这都是情境的问题，你知道的。

It's all context, you know.

你必须一步步走到那一步。

You would have had to have worked up to that point.

她得先向你证明，她有能力应对那条繁忙的街道，也许你得等到她16岁才会放心。

She would have had to have shown you that she was able to be trusted with that busy street, maybe she'd be 16 before you would.

但那正是重点。

But that's that's the point.

这全是情境的问题，你知道的。

It's all it's all con it's context, you know.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，你知道的，尽力而为就好。

And, you know, again, just do the best you can.

这很难。

It's hard.

做这件事有一千种方法，每个人都觉得自己的方式才是对的。

There are a thousand ways to do it, and everybody thinks their way is the right way.

没错。

That's right.

在我们结束之前，我想说，我并不是有意挑那些学大提琴的孩子的毛病。

Also, just before we sign off, I wanna say, I didn't mean to pick on kids who take cello lessons.

顺便说一下，大提琴是我最喜爱的弦乐器，也就是说，它最容易让人联想到内心，所以我才一直提到大提琴。

Cello is, by the way, my favorite stringed instrument, which means it was the one that was easiest called the mind, that's why I kept bringing up the cello.

所有正在学习大提琴的朋友们，向你们致敬，因为这是我最爱的弦乐器。

All of you out there learning cello, hats off to you because that's my fave string instrument.

是的。

Yeah.

如果马友友只是即兴演奏呢？

What if what if Yo Yo Ma had just been free playing?

对。

Right.

但我打赌Yo Yo Ma确实进行过自由演奏。

But I'll bet Yo Yo Ma did free play.

我打赌他两种都做过。

I'll bet he did both.

如果他没做过，我打赌他会后悔。

And if he didn't, I'll bet he regrets it.

如果你想了解更多关于自由放养孩子的事情，就去网上搜索阅读吧，因为这方面的内容很多。

If you wanna know more about free range kids, well, just go on the internet start reading because there's a lot about it.

既然我提到了，哦，还有，《How Stuff Works》上有一篇不错的文章，你也可以读一读。

And since I said that oh, also, there's a pretty good article on how stuff works you can read too.

既然我提到了，现在该听观众来信了。

Since I said that, it's time for listener mail.

好的。

Alright.

我管这个叫沙漠洪涝。

I'm gonna call this desert flooding.

嘿，各位。

Hey, guys.

今天早上听了关于沙漠生存的播客。

Listen to the podcast this morning on desert survival.

我住在亚利桑那州的凤凰城，已经十九年了，即使在大凤凰城地区，突发性洪水问题也确实存在。

And I live here in Phoenix, Arizona and have for nineteen years, and the flash flood issue is real, even in Metro Phoenix.

这里有一条很蠢的司机法规，而且是大写并加了引号的。

They have a stupid motorist law here, and that's capitalized and in quotes.

她说，在暴雨之后和期间，很多干涸河床都会充满流水。

She said, and she said, after and during your heavy rains, a lot of washes fill with running water.

很多干涸河床已经被铺上了路面。

A lot of the washes have been paved.

即使积水只有几英寸深，也会设置路障。

Barriers will be put up when they flood even if the water is only a few inches deep.

但总有人觉得自己的SUV或卡车足够结实，能开过去，而他们的救援故事总会上晚间新闻。

But there is always someone who decides that their SUV or truck is hefty enough to get through, and their rescue is always on the nightly news

天啊。

Oh, man.

因为他们得为此付费。

Because they have to pay for it.

他们真的需要支付救援的费用。

They actually have to pay for the cost of their rescue.

这些冒险者有时下场并不好。

Sometimes these daredevils don't fare too well.

实际上，在仅不到一英尺深的流动水中，已有生命丧失。

Actually, lives have been lost in less than a foot of moving water in a watch.

是的。

Yeah.

我相信这一点。

I believe that.

我听说只要六英寸深。

I've heard six inches.

是的。

Yeah.

她特蕾莎·欣伯里最后这样说。

And she Theresa Hinberry closes by saying this.

我非常喜欢你的播客。

I do so enjoy your podcasts.

不错。

Nice.

谢谢你，特蕾莎。

Thank you, Teresa.

我们也很喜欢你的邮件。

We do so enjoy your emails too.

是的。

Yes.

我喜欢她这样说的方式。

I like the way she put that.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你想像特蕾莎一样，用你出色的口头或书面表达能力给我们留下深刻印象，我们非常欢迎这样的内容。

If you wanna be like Teresa and impress us with your verbal or written dexterity, we'd love that kind of stuff.

你可以访问stuffyshineau.com，并通过社交媒体链接找到我们。

You can go to stuffyshineau.com, and you can look us up on the social links.

你也可以像特蕾莎那样，将你的播客发送到stuffpodcast@iheartradio.com。

You can also send us a podcast like Teresa did to stuff podcast at iheartradio.com.

《你应该知道的事》是由iHeartRadio制作的节目。

Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

要收听更多iHeartRadio的播客，请访问iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts，或你收听最爱节目的任何平台。

For more podcasts to iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

你好。

Hi.

我是《灵性女儿》播客的主持人乔·有趣，我们在这档节目中讨论占星术、星盘以及如何活出最充满活力的人生。

It's Jo Interesting, host of the spirit daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life.

今天，我和我的好朋友克里斯塔·威廉姆斯聊天。

And today, I'm talking with my dear friend, Christa Williams.

它能以最好的方式改变你。

It can change you in the best way possible.

与变化共舞。

Dance with the change.

与崩溃共舞。

Dance with the breakdowns.

双鱼座的直觉与摩羯座的强势行动的结合。

The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves.

我简直为自己的星盘感到荒谬地自豪。

There's I'm, like, delusionally proud of my chart.

从2月24日起，在iHeartRadio应用、Apple播客或你收听播客的任何平台收听《Spirit Daughter》播客。

Listen to the spirit daughter podcast starting on February 24 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

这里是特别探员雷加尔，特别探员布拉德利·霍尔。

This is special agent Regal, special agent Bradley Hall.

2018年，联邦调查局捣毁了一个为中国国家安全部工作的间谍网络，而国家安全部是世界上最神秘的情报机构之一。

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

《第六局》播客讲述的是国家安全部的内部运作，以及一个人的野心与失误如何揭开了其秘密宝库的面纱。

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台收听《第六局》。

Listen to the Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

在《好奇心湾的冒险》播客中，当花生酱从学校消失时，艾拉、斯科特和莱拉展开了一次完整的侦探行动。

On the Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast, when peanut butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout, and Layla launch a full detective mission.

他们的调查将他们带回过去，结识了一位改变世界的天才发明家。

Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world.

在这个黑人历史月的冒险中，提出问题、创造性地思考可以带来惊人的发现。

In this Black History Month adventure, asking questions, thinking creatively can lead to amazing discoveries.

每周一在iHeartRadio应用、Apple Podcasts或您收听播客的任何平台，从黑人影响播客网络收听《好奇心湾的冒险》。

Listen to Adventures of Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

这是iHeart播客《保证人性化》。

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.