与演员泰勒·约翰斯顿和编剧瑞秋·纳夫·德沃金一起，贾里德和詹森惊喜亮相（第一季第八集）

这听起来像是合同没履行完啊。

That sounds like an an unfulfilled contract to me.

还说没骗人。

Talk about lies.

我感觉要打官司了。

I smell lawsuit.

我还以为那个烤面包机……

I thought the toaster...

我还以为那是个我不懂的术语。

I thought that was a term that I just wasn't familiar with.

以为是编剧圈的行话。

Thought that was, like, a writer's term.

你知道吗？

You know?

烤面包机，我……

Toasters I

我觉得这是Eric Crippi提到的一个老梗，就像以前银行为了拉客户会送些搞笑的小家电那样。

think that's an old timey Eric Crippi reference to, like, the way banks used to give away goofy appliances if they signed a client.

嗯，这个嘛……

Well, that's...

首先，我想……

First of all, I wanna...

我代表制作组，对你被骗感到抱歉。

On behalf of the production, I'm sorry that you got ripped off.

这……

That's

还是，对。

still Yeah.

你还有家人呢。

You have a family.

你值得一个烤箱。

You deserve a toaster oven.

给这位女士一个烤面包机吧。

Give this woman a toaster oven.

你还有家人呢。

You have a family.

现在可能得送空气炸锅了。

Maybe an air fryer these days.

嘿。

Hey.

要不咱们给她升级成空气炸锅吧。

Maybe let's let's update her to an air fryer.

树林里还有什么好东西配烤面包机？

What what else is in the woods with a good toaster oven?

所以……

So...

然后，泰勒，你是这些年少数几个，应该说屈指可数的人，演过两个不同的角色。

And then, Tyler, now you were one of the few people, I should say a handful of people through the years, that has played two different roles

在《邪恶力量》里。

on Supernatural.

是的。

Yes.

有些粉丝喜欢想象，是马特·派克离家出走，变成了卖热狗的阿尔菲。

Some of some of the fans like to think that it was Matt Pike who ran away from home, became Alfie the hot dog vendor.

哦。

Oh.

所以有些粉丝猜测，也许在那集结尾，爸爸和马特的关系并没有像我们希望的那样修复。

So some of the fans like to speculate that maybe the relationship between dad and Matt didn't didn't mend the way that we hoped at the end of that episode.

喜欢这个说法。

Like it.

喜欢这个说法。

Like it.

我当时确实……

I did...

你知道，我觉得我们之前在现实生活中见过面，但我看过你后来的剧集，却从没看过这一集。

You know, I I would say we've met before personally in in real life, but I I had seen your later episodes, but I'd never seen this one.

而且你现在看起来和那时一模一样。

And you look exactly the same now.

完全一样。

Totally.

所以我就想，嘿。

So I'm like, hey.

那是泰勒戴着披头士的假发。

There's Tyler wearing a Beetles wig.

我当时就想，我今天不该刮胡子的。

I I was like, I shouldn't have shaved today.

那样看起来会老很多，但我不介意。

Would've looked way older, but I'm not against it.

泰勒，你拍这个的时候多大？

Tyler, how old were you when you shot this?

我当时18岁。

I was 18 years old.

天哪。

Oh, man.

那可能是我第二份有正经台词的工作。

Was probably my second job with, like, actual lines.

我之前客串过一个角色，还演过一些只有一句台词的角色，比如派对上的青少年三号之类的。

I'd done one guest star earlier and then a, a number of actor roles where I would say one thing, teenager at the party number three, or those type of roles,

那些都是

which were

很好的学习经历。

great, great learning experiences.

我记得那时候我跟我爸一起工作。

And I remember I was working with my dad at the time.

他在温哥华开了一家汽车玻璃店，我那时候刚高中毕业。

He owns an auto glass business here in Vancouver and I just graduated high school.

我当时跟他一起干活，你知道的，拆挡风玻璃、换拖拉机的挡风玻璃，不是什么光鲜的活儿。

I was working with him, you know, pulling out windshields and replacing tractor windshields, you know, not glamorous stuff.

我记得接到经纪人电话，说我拿到了《邪恶力量》那集的角色，我爸还开玩笑说，你经纪人打完电话，你跑得比谁都快。

I remember I got the call from my agent that I booked this episode of Supernatural and my dad jokes, he's like, You could not have left the work site any faster after your agent called.

他说，我发誓你立马就打电话让你妈来接你了。

He's like, I swore you called your mom to pick you up right away.

他老爱开玩笑说，我一拿到活儿就把他给甩了。

He likes to joke that I bailed on him as soon as I got the job.

那时候我才18岁。

And I was 18 years old.

好

Good

角色。

role.

很棒的角色。

A great role.

哎呀，天哪。

Oh, man.

真是个非常好的角色。

Really good role.

直到昨晚我才重新看了那部剧，已经十五年没看了，看到的时候感觉挺酷的。

And I hadn't watched that for fifteen years until last night, and it was pretty cool to see.

我学到了

I learned a

很多在那六七天里，那是我职业生涯的起点。

lot on those six, seven days, and it was a jumping off point for me in my career.

毫无疑问。

No question about it.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

马特，我记得没错的话，你可能不知道，但我很确定我们最初写剧本的时候，这个角色应该是十岁左右的孩子。

Matt, I think if I remember correctly, you would never know this, but I'm pretty sure when we first wrote the script, it was supposed to be like a 10 year old.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

但要么是埃里克把它改成了高中生，要么是他们找不到合适的演员，所以就把年龄往上调了。

But either Eric rewrote it to be a high schooler, or they couldn't find anyone who was a decent actor, so they bumped up

我的年龄。

my age.

所以我当时18岁，但演的是10岁的感觉。

So I was 18 going on 10.

没错。

Exactly.

效果还不错。

It worked.

所以，瑞秋，你刚才说埃里克对编剧们有点苛刻。

So now, Rachel, you you were saying that Eric kinda had it out there for the writers.

比如，有人试图把这个故事讲出来。

Like, somebody tried to break this story.

当你提出故事构思时，是当面展示吗？

When you break the story, is that something you present in person?

比如你走进房间，说‘好，’

Like, you walk in the room like, okay.

‘我们觉得是这样的’，还是用书面提案？

Here's what we think it is, or was that a written pitch?

是口头提案。

It's a verbal pitch.

我们进来。

We come in.

我们看到白板上所有的想法。

We see all these ideas on the board.

我记得好像有一集是关于卓柏卡布拉的。

I think there was, like, a chupacabra episode.

还有一集是关于什么的，可能有很多集最终完成了第一季，已经在白板上了，只是用一两个词，比如‘温迪戈’之类的。

There was a whatever episode, probably a lot of episodes that ended up finishing up that first season on the board already, just as, like, little one or two word a Wendigo or whatever.

所以我们回家后，把那些想法都头脑风暴一下，第二天回来，做个口头提案。

So then we go home and kind of brainstorm all those ideas and come back the next day and give, like, a verbal pitch.

我想我们当时肯定想出了……

And I guess we must have come up with...

不太愿意承认我们想出了那个被诅咒的原住民土地的点子，但我想确实是我们想的。

Kinda don't like to think that we came up with the cursed indigenous people's land, but I guess we did.

我还是觉得后来被埃里克·克里普克大幅重写了，我把这集归咎于他。

I am still thinking we were greatly rewritten by Eric Kripke, and I blame this episode

归咎于埃里克。

on Eric.

悬而未决。

Hangs in the balance.

你有没有……

Did you...

有没有……

Did...

我本来想问的是，你们是不是受到了《吵闹鬼》那种电影的影响，就是那种把房子建在……

Was The question I was gonna ask actually is is is were you influenced by, like, Poltergeist, you know, movie where they built a house on

当然啦。

Of course.

你说“影响”。

You say influenced.

我是说，我本来以为我们会拼命避开那个的。

I mean, I would have imagined that we would have avoided that like crazy.

那联系太明显了，但我们肯定还是……

That's such the obvious connection there, but we must have...

我觉得挺不好意思的。

I feel bad.

这都十六年前的事了，我真觉得抱歉，我已经记不清那天在房间里具体是怎么说的了。

This was, like, sixteen years ago, and I feel so bad that I don't have, like, the exact recall of what we pitched that day in the room.

没事。

No.

从来不是关于历史的。

Never about history.

你可以改写它。

You can rewrite it.

我们可以重新……

We can just re...

用新的方式重新讲述。

Retell it in a new way.

希望你们喜欢这一集，但我们需要暂停一下，插播几条消息。

I hope you're enjoying the episode, but we need to pull over for a second for some messages.

大家好。

Hi, everybody.

我是罗伯·贝内迪克特。

It's Rob Benedict.

本期节目由Vinted赞助播出。

This episode is sponsored by Vinted.

你知道Vinted吗？

Do you know about Vinted?

好的。

Okay.

看看你的衣柜。

Check a look at your closet.

如果你像我一样，那里面……

If you're like me, it's...

我的衣服太多了。

I've got too many clothes.

不是。

No.

我的问题是我和一个人住，他的衣服太多，衣柜又小，所以我们一直在想办法精简衣柜，腾出空间放别的东西。

My problem is I'm with someone who has too many clothes for a small closet, So we're always looking for ways to thin out our closet to make for room for other things.

有个应用让这件事变得特别简单，那就是Vinted。

And there's an app that makes that so easy to do, and that app is Vinted.

这是一个二手市场应用，让像你我这样的普通卖家轻松出售二手时尚单品，赚点外快。

It's a secondhand marketplace app that makes it easy for everyday sellers, people like you and me, to sell pre loved fashion and earn some extra money.

所以也许你的衣柜不像我这么满，但你想赚点外快，或者你只是喜欢偶尔清理一下。

So maybe your closet's not full like mine, but you're looking to make a little extra money, or you just like to clean out every once in a while.

这就是Vinted很棒的原因，因为你可以重新利用你的衣服，顺便赚点小钱。

That's why Vinted is great because you can repurpose your clothing and make a little cash on the side.

Vinted用起来太简单了，让卖衣服变得轻而易举。

Vinted was just so easy that it made selling my clothes simple.

我选择Vinted是因为它没有销售费用，所以你赚到的都是自己的。

I turned to vintage because there are no selling fees, so you keep everything you earn.

所以这是双赢。

And so it's win win.

你……

You...

我能够清理衣柜，赚点外快，而且我……

I've been able to clean out my closet, make a little extra money, and I...

现在我感觉好多了，因为我有好多……

Now I feel better because I have a lot...

衣柜整洁多了。

Much less cluttered closet.

这个应用是免费下载的。

The app is free to download.

在Vinted上发布商品很快很简单，一旦商品卖出，Vinted会为你生成预付运费标签。

Listing items on Vinted is quick, it's simple, and once the item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you.

所以，这不就是你想的吗？

So it's like, wouldn't you?

那你准备好清理衣柜，赚点外快了吗？

So are you ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money?

免费下载Vinted应用，开始发布商品吧。

Download the Vinted app for free and start listing.

没有卖家费用，你赚的每一分钱都归你。

With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn.

你拿着最喜欢的毯子，倒了一杯刚调好的饮料，还有一个冷案在你的追剧清单上等着你。

You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue.

你不仅仅是在看真实犯罪。

You're not just watching true crime.

你是在沙发上舒舒服服地当侦探。

You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch.

欢迎收听《她看的谋杀案》播客，我们在这里回顾、剖析，甚至有点过度分析我们最喜欢的流媒体平台上那些最精彩、最疯狂的犯罪纪录片。

Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers.

是配偶干的吗？

Did the spouse do it?

为什么那个可疑的邻居七月还戴着皮手套？

Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July?

为什么这家伙会同意在这部纪录片里接受采访？

Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary?

我们问那些你常常对着电视大喊大叫的棘手问题。

We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV.

所以每周我们都会拆解那些让你彻夜难眠的剧情反转、误导线索和离谱纪录片。

So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

这就是高能剧情、舒适氛围，还有十足的沙发侦探范儿。

It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy.

拿起你的毛毯，赶紧订阅吧。

Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe.

在你听播客的任何地方搜索《Murder She Watched》，让我们一起破案。

Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

感谢大家的收听，现在回到正片。

Thanks for listening, everybody, and now back to the episode.

所以我现在要问一个16岁的问题。

So now I'm gonna ask another 16 year old question.

但因为他当时特别努力想解开这个谜，还半开玩笑地说，谁要是解出来我就送一台家电。

But since he was trying so hard to to break this and had sort of jokingly said, I'm gonna give an appliance to whoever figures it out.

当你提出那个想法的时候，他是不是特别高兴？

Was he elated when you, like, pitched...

我们当时就说，天哪。

We were like, oh my gosh.

你做到了。

You've done it.

他有没有从座位上跳起来？

Did he leap from his seat?

有没有那种激动人心的时刻？

Was there a moment?

没有。

No.

我觉得他的反应要平静得多。

I think it was a much more subdued reaction.

我觉得更像是，好吧。

I really think it was more like, okay.

也许我们就用这个方案。

Maybe we go with that.

我觉得，我觉得……

Like, I think I think...

然后他……

And then he

好莱坞就是这么运作的。

how it happens in Hollywood.

我，我不记得了……

I I don't remember...

我记得当时就是，试试看吧。

I remember it being like, give it a shot.

你知道吗？

You know?

再说，你得记住，他……

Again, you have to remember, he...

我们当时几乎没拿到什么报酬。

We were getting paid next to nothing.

我们当时就是那种可有可无的工作。

We were sort of this throwaway job.

所以他可以把我们打发到另一个房间，跟约翰·谢班一起，他是他的二号编剧。

So he could go send us in the other room with John Sheiban, was his number two writer guy.

结果约翰基本上被分配来照看我们这两个新手编剧。

And John got assigned essentially babysitting these two newbie writers.

去另一个房间待几天，试着把这个《兔八哥》的剧集弄出来。

Go in the other room for a few days and try to break this Bugs episode.

我不确定他们对我们能想出什么点子抱有多大期望。

I'm not sure if they had a lot of high hopes for what we were gonna come up with.

你提到过你的写作搭档，比尔·科克利？

You've mentioned your writing partner, Bill Coakley?

是的。

Yes.

他现在在做什么？

And what's he doing now?

你知道吗，这个问题问得真好。

You know, that's a really good question.

比尔和我很久以前就分开了，而且，很不巧，我们联系得不多。

Bill and I broke up a long time ago, and, you know, unfortunately, we haven't kept in that much touch.

但是

But

分开？搭档什么？

Broke up partner what?

搭档关系结束了。

Partner Lighted

搭档关系。

partner what.

对。

Yes.

我们从来没有恋爱关系。但是，你知道，我觉得他过得挺好的。

We were never romantically But, you know, I I think he's doing well.

他去年拍了一部电影。

He directed a movie, like, last year.

所以，好吧。

So Okay.

为他高兴。

Good for him.

好的。

Okay.

祝比尔好运。

Best of luck to Bill.

泰勒，回到你这边，兄弟。

Tyler, back to you, buddy.

所以你的角色一直喜欢虫子，直到最后。

So your character loves bugs until the end.

我是说，他对虫子不太确定。

I mean, he's not so sure about bugs.

他把它们全都扔进垃圾桶，好像它们根本不是活的东西一样。

He throws them all in the garbage as if they just aren't living things.

没错。

Exactly.

就像是，等一下。

It's like, wait a second.

刮。

Scrape.

刮。

Scrape.

完全变了。

Completely switches.

你得处理

You had to handle

好几个小时。

hours.

你处理过一只螳螂。

You handled a praying mantis.

你你你处理过，比如，一只，不。

You you you handled, like, a a No.

一只蜘蛛。

A spider.

有点吓人。

It was kinda creepy.

狼蛛。

Tarantula.

我是说，有没有……

Mean, did...

你做这些事的时候，有没有觉得害怕？

Were you creeped out at all by doing this stuff?

我简直吓坏了。

I was absolutely terrified.

我知道这听起来可能有点奇怪，但当时有个男人开着一辆白色面包车过来，让我进到后面去，里面全是昆虫。

I know this is gonna sound strange, but there was a man who pulled up in a white van, and he asked me to get in the back, and he had insects galore.

顺便说一句，他和《邪恶力量》可没关系。

He had nothing to do with Supernatural, by the way.

那天我迟到了片场。

I was late to set that day.

而且车里面到处都是虫子。

And he had bugs all over the inside.

我记得我当时在摆弄一只大甲虫。

I remember I was handling, like, a big beetle.

我还拍了张照片呢。

I have a picture of that.

有只狼蛛在我脸上爬。

There's a tarantula walking on my face.

他们想确保我在镜头前不会吓到失控。

Wanted to make sure I wasn't gonna have a freak out when we got to camera.

那恐怕没什么用。

Well, that's not gonna help.

我当时吓坏了。

I was terrified.

我现在还是特别讨厌虫子。

I still don't like bugs, like, at all.

我觉得这心理挺奇怪的。

I think it's a weird psychology.

就好比，我想确认你不怕坐飞机，就把你从飞机上推下去。

Like, I wanna be sure you're good with flying, I'm gonna shove you out of an airplane.

我要把你从悬崖上推下去。

I'm gonna push you off this cliff.

你会没事的，你会没事的。

You'll be you'll be fine.

我发誓。

Swear.

如果你

If you're

害怕的话，那你就不适合这份工作。

scared, then you're not the man for the job.

他们确实在开拍前做了个测试，确保我们没有人对蜜蜂过敏。

They did, like, a a test before we went to camera as well to make sure that none of us were allergic to bees.

所有需要出现在最后几场蜜蜂占领房子的戏里的工作人员和演员，都得做这个检查。

Any crew members and cast members who had to be in that last couple scenes where the bees overtook the house, they had to do a check.

他们在我们皮肤上放了个小过滤器，然后把蜜蜂的刺穿过过滤器，这样每次测试蜇人时蜜蜂就不会死。

They had a little filter on our skin and put the bee stinger through the filter so the bees wouldn't die every time they test stung.

我记得我当时就想，好吧，来吧。

I remember just being like, Okay, here we go.

我脸上放过狼蛛。

I've had a tarantula on my face.

他们拿蜜蜂蜇了我的胳膊，还准备把我扔进阁楼里。

They've stabbed a bee into my arm and about to throw me in an attic.

但他们说那天大概有一万只蜜蜂之类的。

But they said like 10,000 bees or something on that day.

有成千上万只蜜蜂。

There was thousands and thousands of bees

真的吗？

in -Really?

好多蜜蜂。

Lot of bees.

那我们进入正题吧。

So let's get into that.

所以最后那个——对。

So that last -Yeah.

——算是这集的高潮部分，你们都在那个阁楼里。

-Sort of the climax of the episode, you're all in this attic.

——那是在舞台上，还是你们真的在阁楼里？

-Was it on a stage, or were you actually in an attic?

是在舞台上。

It was in a stage.

我记得那是我最早的舞台经历之一，当时完全被布景和道具的规模震撼到了。

And I remember that was one of my first stage experiences and just being overwhelmed by the magnitude of the sets and the props.

你知道吗，有一个镜头是蜜蜂把整个窗户都盖住了。

You know, like there was one shot where there was bees covering the entire window.

我记得看着工作人员布置那个场景，特别着迷于一个镜头在摄像机前只有几秒钟，却要花那么长时间来准备。

And I remember watching the crew set that up and just being fascinated how long shots take for seconds on camera.

那是我第一次意识到，哇，制作一档电视节目真是一件超级大的工程。

That was my first moment of being like, Wow, this is a huge, huge ordeal to get this television show made.

而且他们用的是真蜜蜂。

And they had real bees in there.

是真蜜蜂。

Real bees.

他们把蜜蜂放进了阁楼，然后马上发现蜜蜂都直接飞向灯光了。

They released the bees into the attic, and then they realized right away the bugs were going straight to the lights.

虫子会……

Bugs would be...

有些虫子不幸被那些极热的灯烤焦了，他们也没法让蜜蜂按他们想的去做。

Some of them were frying unfortunately on these extremely hot lights and they couldn't get the bees to do what they wanted.

那些蜜蜂是非工会的。

They were non union bees.

得记住

Have to remember

什么？哦，天哪。

what Oh, these man.

就像是为了省钱才用真蜜蜂。

It was like afford to get real bees.

蜜蜂

Bee

群演。

extras.

还有很多穿着养蜂服的人。

There's a lot of also fly in bee suits.

有很多更便宜的。

There were a lot of cheaper.

有很多养蜂服。

There were a lot of suits.

工作人员……

The crew...

我知道……

I know...

我记得贾里德提过这个故事，但当时有很多工作人员穿着养蜂服在阁楼里。

I think Jared mentioned this story, but there was a lot of crew members in the attic in bee suits.

金·曼纳斯知道我们有些人可能在这个有成千上万只蜜蜂的阁楼里不太自在，所以他脱掉养蜂服，穿着短裤和T恤进来了。

And Kim Manners, knowing that maybe some of us weren't the most comfortable in this attic with tens of thousands of bees, he took off his bee suit and came in in his shorts and his T shirts.

确实，是的。

Actually Yeah.

团结一致。

Solidarity.

我们其实问过詹森·阿克斯这件事，我们打算……

We actually asked Jensen Ackles about that story, and we're gonna...

现在，我们来听听他对这件事的看法。

Right now, we're gonna listen to what he had to say about that.

他们把整个片场都封起来了，就像《E.T.》里的场景一样。

They had the whole, like, set, like, zipped up like it was, you know Everything had to was something out of ET.

然后，是的，所有工作人员都穿着全套防护服在里面，和那些蜜蜂待在一起。

And and, yeah, all the the whole crew is inside there with the Bugs in full on b gear.

贾里德和我被叫去片场，我走到那个拉链入口，然后他们……

And Jared and I, they're, like, calling us to set, and I I get up to the, like, the zipper to enter the set, and they...

我当时就想……

And I'm like...

我只听到这个……

I just hear this...

然后我……

And I...

然后我就想，我才不进去呢。

And I'm like, I'm not going in there.

我就想，我要……

Like, I'm gonna...

然后我就听到监视器后面传来声音。

And and then I just hear from behind the monitors.

我听到Kim直接说，你给我进去。

I hear Kim just go, get your ass in there.

我要揍你一顿。

I'm gonna beat your ass.

第二……

Sec...

第二集。

Second episode.

他当时就说，进去吧。

He was like he was like, get in there.

孩子们，进去。

Boys, get in there.

我要揍你们一顿。

I'm gonna beat your asses.

让我想想，然后我就……

Let me a chick of And so I...

然后我记得贾里德喊回去，他说，金，里面有六万只蜜蜂。

And then I think I think Jared yelled back, and he was like, Kim, there's 60,000 bees in there.

你进去。

You get in there.

然后他说，好吧。

And he goes, fine.

该死的。

Goddamn it.

给我一个桶。

Give me a bucket.

或者不。

Or no.

他说，给我一个……

He goes, give me a...

给我一个苹果箱。

Give me an Apple box.

他穿着短裤和T恤，拉开拉链，拿着苹果箱走进去，坐了下来。

And he had shorts and a T shirt on, and he unzipped the thing, walked in with his Apple box, sat down.

他说，你给我滚进来。

He was like, get your ass in here.

天哪。

Oh my god.

没有防蜂服。

No bee suit.

什么都没有。

No nothing.

天哪。

Oh my god.

然后我看着贾里德，我

And I just look at I look at Jared, and I

当时就想，

was like,

现在我们得

now we have to

那一刻我就觉得，天哪，这真是……

And that was a moment where I was like, man, like, this is...

你知道吗，那只是一个领导者展现领导力的时刻，我当时并没有真正体会到，直到几年后在我的职业生涯中，我才意识到片场可能有点等级制度，金，他其实不必那样做的。

You know, that was just a a leader showing his leadership, and I didn't really appreciate that moment until a few years later into my career where I realized that there might be a little bit of a hierarchy on set, Kim, you know, didn't have to do that.

那真是一个非常酷的举动。

It was a it was a really cool gesture.

确实是的。

It was.

而且你是

And you're one

我们聊过的少数几个真正和Kim合作过的演员之一，他是……

of the few actors that we've talked to that's actually gotten to work with Kim, who's...

你知道，我们聊了很多。

You know, we've we've we've spoken about a lot.

那段经历感觉怎么样？

What was that experience like?

他非常友善，非常温和。

He was super nice, super gentle.

我当时完全是新人。

I was brand new.

大概是我在片场的第八天或第十天吧。

Like, it was probably my eighth or tenth day on set.

所以我问了一些我本该知道答案的问题，他帮了我很多，带我走过了那些场景。

So I was asking questions that I probably should have known the answer to, and he helped me through a lot of those scenes.

现在回想起来，比如卧室里那场戏，我在电话里跟贾里德或詹森说虫子来了，你们得赶紧过来。

Even looking back now, like that one scene in the bedroom where I'm talking to Jared or Jensen on the phone saying that the bugs are coming, you know, you need to get over here.

我记得那场戏我特别紧张，因为那是我角色求他们回来救我家人的关键时刻，而金姆让我冷静下来，带我一步步走过那场戏。

I remember being so nervous for that scene because it was sort of my character's moment to like ask the boys to come back and save my family and Kim just calmed me down and walked me through the scene.

太棒了。

That's so cool.

这让赛斯感到非常振奋。

It left Seth feeling very uplifted.

太好了，兄弟。

That's great, man.

所以当时，

So at the

你根本不知道你是在跟一个传奇人物合作。

time, I mean, you don't know you're working with a legend probably.

你是新来的吗？

You're new?

不是。

No.

那你是个年轻人？

You're a young guy?

我不知道。

I have no idea.

所以后来，随着时间推移，你才意识到金·曼纳斯是个大人物。

So after the fact, you figured it out as the years went on that Kim Manners was a big deal.

是的，绝对是的。

Yes, absolutely, I did.

而且我完全理解为什么。

And I totally understand why.

他对片场每个人的态度，还有我提到的他在阁楼里的那个故事，我明白为什么人们会追随他，无论在片场还是其他地方。

His behavior to everybody on set, and like I mentioned, that story of him in the attic, I understand why people would follow him, you know, on set and anywhere.

我会说是上战场。

I'd say into war.

我当时不想

I didn't want

进一个满是野兽的阁楼。

Into an attic of beast.

示意图。

Schematic.

那是个

That's a

很棒的故事。

great story.

确实，能做出那种事来。

Mean, yeah, to to have done that.

瑞秋，你有没有……

Rachel, did you...

你知道，有些那些……

Know, some of the the...

你们在洛杉矶写剧本，然后编剧们会飞到温哥华去。

You're writing in LA, and the writers will fly to Vancouver.

那你有没有去那边参与拍摄？

Did you go up there for the shooting of this?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

我们没去。

We didn't.

再说，我们当时有点像自由职业者。

Again, we were kinda like these freelancers.

我们还得回去做自己的日常工作。

We had to, like, go back to our day jobs.

就像……

Like...

我记得当时特别焦虑

And I remember, like, stressing out

因为那

because it

多花了几天时间，你知道的，你不能……什么

was taking, like, a few days extra, and, you know, you can't What

你当时的工作是什么？

was your day job at the time?

那时候我在一家网络营销公司工作。

At the time, I was working for an online marketing company.

明白。

Sure.

就像你平时做的那样。

Like you do.

就是写谷歌广告之类的。

Writing Google Ads or something.

对，我记得当时特别焦虑，因为老是要跟人说，我还得多请几天假。

And, yeah, I remember being really stressed that I kept having to say, I actually need to take a few more days.

但可惜的是，我们最后没去成温哥华。

But, no, we didn't get to go to Vancouver, unfortunately.

那，你的节目在制作的时候……

Well, did the...

你知道金·曼纳的背景吗？

When your show is getting produced, were you aware of Kim Manor's pedigree?

比如，你有个好导演？

Like, you got a good director?

我的意思是，要知道……

I mean, to know that...

不只是他导演了我们那集，他还导演过《X档案》那些剧。

Not just that he was directing our episode, who had directed all these x files and stuff.

我的意思是，那真是，哇。

I mean, that's like, wow.

不过我之前也提到过约翰·希宾，他是帮我们写剧本的那个人。

But I mentioned John Shibin before too, who was the guy who was kind of who we worked with to write our episode.

他写过很多《X档案》，感觉就像，哇，第一次接活就能跟这么厉害的人合作。

He had written a bunch of x files, and it just felt like, wow, for our first gig, like, we're really working with some impressive people.

虽然我们没能真正跟金合作，但知道是他执导我们的那集，真的觉得，哇。

Even though we didn't get to really work with Kim, to know that he had gone on to do our episode was like, wow.

你参与过那个过程吗，比如基调会议之类的？

Were you involved in that process, like tone meetings and and the rest that goes on?

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

不过，这挺有意思的。

I mean, it's interesting.

后来我嫁给了一位编剧，他是电视剧的制片人。

Like, I then subsequently later married a writer who is a showrunner in TV.

所以现在我才真正了解制作一集节目需要多少工作。

And so now I know what really all goes into producing an episode.

而当时我完全不知道。

And at the time, I had no idea.

我当时就想，哦，我把剧本交上去，播出的时候叫我一声就行了。

I just thought, oh, I turned in my script and call me when it's gonna be on.

我没想到真正的编剧要做很多……

I didn't realize that real writers get to do a lot of...

很多额外的事情。

A lot more stuff.

你可是真正的编剧。

You're a real writer.

别谦虚了。

Come on.

这挺好的……

This is good...

你知道，这真的是很精彩的一集电视剧。

You know, it's a it's a really good episode of TV.

我得说一句。

I will say this.

《邪恶力量》一共有327集。

There's 327 episodes of Supernatural.

《虫子》这一集是讨论度最高的之一。

Bugs is among the most talked about.

而且这本身就有意义，因为即使大家讨论它是因为反应两极分化，能在几百集里脱颖而出，也挺酷的。

And there and there's something to be said for that, because even if it's talked about because of a mixed reaction, that's saying something to raise to raise yourself from the other hundreds of episodes of this show is kind of cool.

我觉得这集经常被不公平地批评，因为实际上我认为它和那些优秀的《邪恶力量》剧集一样好，你知道，有很棒的剧集，也有一般的剧集。

I mean, I think the episode is unfairly maligned often because I actually think it's it's as good as, you know, there are excellent episodes of Supernatural, and then there's episodes of Supernatural.

我不觉得它是一集糟糕的剧集。

I I don't see it being a bad episode.

其实很多时候，我几乎以为它会……

I mean, lot of times, you know, I was almost expecting it to be...

看起来会很假，或者你会觉得，怎么说呢，某个怪物穿着很糟糕的戏服，被人嘲笑那种。

Look faky or something that you think about, like, I don't know, some some monster in a really bad costume being, you know, laughed at.

但它完全不是那样。

Well, it did nothing like that.

那些虫子是真的。

Like, the bugs were real.

唯一……

The only

那些塑料蜘蛛。

The plastic plastic spiders.

那只塑料蜘蛛看起来不像真的。

The plastic spider didn't look real.

现在回头看，那些蜘蛛在……

And now looking back, the spiders in the...

从淋浴间出来的时候

Coming out in the shower

在淋浴间里。

In shower.

看起来有点假。

Look a bit fake.

我觉得问题在于那帮人什么都没做。

I think the issue is the guys didn't do anything.

其实，我记得他们跑向房子去救人的时候，有一句台词，他们发现那是个诅咒。

In fact, I think there's, like, a line as they're running to the house to save the day where they've discovered it's a curse.

然后迪恩好像说了句什么，比如

And I think Dean says something like

那我们怎么解除诅咒？

So how do we break a curse?

诅咒是解不了的。

You don't break a curse.

你得躲开

You get out of

它的路。

its way.

我们现在得把这些人弄出去。

We gotta get these people out now.

什么？

What?

这不像英雄解决问题的方式……

That's not like how heroes solve solve a...

而且，在

Like, and in

其他情况下，他们把自己锁在

other They're lock yourself

阁楼里。

in the attic.

在大多数其他《邪恶力量》的剧集里，主角们得做点聪明、机智又英勇的事情，对吧。

Most of the other Supernatural episodes, the guys have to do something clever and smart and heroic Right.

而不是整晚躲在阁楼里。

Not hide in a attic all night long.

那太逊了。

That's lame.

詹森有杀虫喷雾和火焰喷射器。

Jensen had some bug spray and a and a flame thrower.

他到处喷火。

He was throwing fire around.

哥们，我得说，那个喷雾罐肯定连着一根管子通到下面的大桶里。

Dude, I gotta say that there had to be a tube from that that spray can down like a vat.

在现实中，那玩意儿一秒就没了。

In real life, that would be gone in a second.

对，你说得没错。

And, yeah, you're right.

他们确实做到了。

They they did.

他们撑过来了。

They lasted through.

他们坚持到了天亮。

They made it to daylight.

你知道吗，Rachel，Larry、Joni和Matthew是Pripy父母的名字。

Did you know, Rachel, that Larry, Joni, and Matthew are the names of Pripy's father mother?

而且我认识他们本人。

And I know them personally.

真的吗？

Really?

是的。

Yes.

不会吧。

No way.

所以你才用他们的名字？

Is that why you use their names?

不是。

No.

我是说，埃里克本来会……

I mean, Eric would've...

埃里克可能改了那些角色的名字。

Eric probably changed the names of those characters.

但是达斯汀，就是第一个被杀的那个，那个有线电视工人什么的，那是我写作搭档的侄子，达斯汀。

But Dustin, who is the first guy who gets killed, the cable guy or whatever, that was my writing partner's nephew, Dustin.

是演员的名字还是角色名？

The actor or the name?

不是。

No.

是名字。

The name.

有意思。

Funny.

他都40岁了。

He's a 40 year old man.

而且

And

他真的去世了。

he really died.

比尔，比尔和我们一起工作的时候已经75岁了。

Bill Bill was 75 when we worked together.

这组合挺奇怪的。

It was a weird matchup.

那听起来有点吓人。

That that seems kinda terrifying.

而且，那个演员还得继续工作……

And, again, that actor had to work...

真的要和虫子一起工作，比如虫子被倒得满身都是。

Really work with bugs, like having bugs dumped all over his

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

那家伙。

That dude.

你那个拿狼蛛的活儿，跟那家伙比起来简直是轻松活儿。

You had you had a cakewalk of a gig holding a tarantula compared to that guy.

虫子在他身上爬来爬去，就为了拿一天的报酬，还是按加拿大日薪算的，拍完就送走。

Bugs were going all over him for a day rate Like, shot him in and out on a Canadian day rate.

我跟你说。

Let me tell you something.

猜猜谁不会为了加拿大日薪被虫子爬满身？

Guess who's not getting covered in bugs for a Canadian day rate?

就是这个播客主持人。

This podcast host.

不。

No.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这里面还有另一个我很喜欢的死亡场景，就是那个在淋浴间的女人，她其实不是被虫子杀死的，而是因为看到蜘蛛从里面爬出来，吓得跑出淋浴间时滑倒摔死的，因为那实在太恐怖了，她光顾着逃跑，结果摔死了。

There's another there's another death in this one I really like, which is the woman in the shower who isn't killed by the bugs so much, is killed by slipping, running out of the shower because there are spiders coming out it, because that's so terrifying that she actually just falls running away, and that's what kills her.

知道。

Know.

-然后

-And then

-卡里，她们杀死的那个叫甘泽尔。

-KARI they kill Ganzel is her name.

她是个很可爱的女士。

She's a lovely lady.

-卡里·甘泽尔。

-KARI Ganzel.

甘泽尔。

Ganzel.

而且凯莉·甘泽尔出演了我执导的第一集《邪恶力量》。

And Carrie Ganzel was in the first episode of Supernatural I ever directed

这就对了。

There you go.

后来在第十一季。

Later on in season eleven.

那一集叫《只是我的想象》。

It's called Just My Imagination.

那可真奇怪。

Well, that's weird.

所以这是……

So this is...

有两个演员后来都回归了这部剧，出现在后面的季里。

Has two actors who both came back to the show in later seasons.

哇。

Wow.

确实如此。

Indeed, it does.

有趣的是，在温哥华为《邪恶力量》选角时，你会拿到一份名单，上面写着泰勒·约翰斯顿，还会注明他出演过第一季的《虫子》那一集。

And it's funny, when you're auditioning people for Supernatural in Vancouver, you get the list of names, and it says Tyler Johnston, and it'll say he appeared in season one episode Bugs.

这样你

Just so you

就知道了。

know that.

所以你知道。

So you know.

执行制片人也知道。

And so the executive producers know.

所以如果你甚至...

So if you even...

哦，这就是我想要的那个人。

Oh, that's the guy I want.

回到洛杉矶后，编剧们会说，好吧。

Back in LA, the writers go, okay.

嗯，这到底重要还是不重要？

Well, does it matter or does it not matter?

而且它……

And it...

我觉得它……我觉得在11集里，30……

I don't think it I don't think it ever in the 11 episodes, 30...

不管我执导了多少集，我觉得以前有没有演过《邪恶力量》从来都不重要。

Wherever I may have directed, I don't think it ever mattered that somebody had been in Supernatural before.

比如，他们就是那个角色的合适人选，我们就会说，用他们吧。

Like, they were the right person for the role, we're like, use them.

太好了。

Great.

我是说，它给我和我在温哥华的同行们提供了很多工作机会。

I mean, it provided a lot of jobs and a lot of opportunities for me and my peers up here in Vancouver.

我跟你说，十五年，三百集。

I'll tell you what, fifteen years, 300 episodes.

然后你在第八季回来了？

And you came back in season eight?

第八季。

Eight.

第八季。

Season eight.

在被刺中心脏之前，我拍了几集《天使》。

Did a couple episodes of An Angel before I was stabbed in the heart.

剧透警告。

Spoiler alert.

天哪。

Oh, man.