与导演菲尔·斯格里奇亚的噩梦（第一季第14集）

因为音乐版权的问题。

You know, because of the music rights thing.

这集里有两首鲍勃·西格的歌特别好听，但没放出来。

There were two beautiful Bob Seger songs in this show that were not

哦，是因为奈飞的原因。

Oh, because of the Netflix

就是因为奈飞那边的事。

Because the Netflix thing.

嗯，所以我们没听到那些歌。

Well, didn't so we didn't we didn't hear those.

有两首，一首是《Two Plus Two》，是那个家伙开车进来时放的，还有一首是鲍勃·西格早期的一首歌，叫《Lucifer》。

It was, two plus two was the guy driving in, and then a song called Lucifer that Bob Seeker did early on.

这可比银弹乐队那些早多了。

This is way before Silver Bullet Band and all that.

西格一直是大家毕业舞会或者什么场合都会看到的那个人。

Seeger was always the guy that everybody saw at their graduation prom dance or whatever.

他在六十年代和七十年代初就是那个……

You know, he was that guy in the in the sixties and in the early seventies that...

如果你在底特律或者底特律附近，你总能在人群里看到鲍勃·西格，或者是特德·纽杰特、汉博伊·杜克斯这类人。

And if you were in Detroit, around Detroit, you always, you know, somehow saw Bob Seeger in the herd, or Ted Nugent, Hamboy Dukes, that sort of thing.

所以

So

听说你还让你妹妹寄马克杯和棒球帽之类的东西来布置场景。

So rumor has it that you had your sister send in mugs and baseball caps and things to decorate the set.

真的吗？

Is that true?

我妹妹伊芙，也就是伊薇，给我发了一堆东西。

My younger sister, Ev, Evie, she sent me a bunch of stuff.

因为我说既然我们要去萨吉诺，那就……

Because I said if we're gonna make it Saginaw, let's...

杰里·瓦内克是威斯康星人，是个地道的奶酪脑袋，我们俩相处得特别好。

And Jerry Wanek, you know, being a Wisco boy for a cheese head from Wisconsin, he and I get along really well.

威斯康星。

Wisco.

我该知道的。

I should know.

我花了一会儿才

It took me a hot second to

反应过来是威斯康星。

pick up Wisco.

威斯康星。

Wisco.

但杰瑞是中西部人，我也是，还有克里普克，我们都挺喜欢那些地方，还有埃斯卡纳巴汽车旅馆，以及那里的一切。

But, you know, with Jerry being Midwesterner, me being the same and and Kripke, we all kinda dive into those places and the Escanaba Motel and everything about it.

埃斯卡纳巴是密歇根上半岛的一个城市。

Escanaba is a city in the Upper Peninsula Of Michigan.

所以你就想尽量用一些小彩蛋来填充它，我觉得，主要还是为了我自己。

And so you try and populate it all with stuff that just is little Easter eggs for myself, I guess, more than anything.

不是。

No.

我觉得是面向所有人的。

I think it's for everybody.

我觉得这也是大家重刷这部剧时觉得它特别有意思的原因。

I think that's what makes the show fascinating for people who rewatch it.

你知道的

You know

我的意思是什么？

what I mean?

因为可能第一次看的时候，大家注意不到这些细节。

Because it might not be something people pick up on the first viewing.

得等到第二遍、第三遍看的时候，你才会开始发现那些层层叠叠的细节。这真的是我以前没真正明白的，直到我站到另一边才意识到杰瑞埋得有多深，你们做得有多深。

It's the second viewing, the third viewing, and you start to see the layers of things, which is really something that I didn't truly understand until I got on the other side and realized how deep Jerry goes, how deep you guys go.

还有每个人，比如罗宾·普罗普斯会说，嘿，这个来自第三季。

And everybody, Robin Propps will bring in like, Hey, this is from season three.

在这里就说得通了。

It makes sense here.

会有一些有趣的事情发生。

You know, there'll be some interesting things that happen.

我觉得这种实时整理历史的方式真的很酷。

That kind of curating the history in real time, I think, is really cool.

你懂吗？

Know?

我觉得这……

I think it's...

有一部分是我们很高兴能把一些东西放在过去的人面前。

Part of it is our glee at putting something in past people

希望如此。

Hopefully.

也许他们能发现，也许不能。

Or maybe they catch it, maybe they don't.

不过现在嘛，你可以一帧一帧地看，什么都能看清楚，所以情况有点不一样了。

Again, nowadays, you can go frame by frame and look at everything, so it's a little different.

但那时候我们还在用胶片拍摄，就有点像，看看我们能加点什么料进去。

But, you know, we were shooting on film still then, and, it was just kinda like, let's see what we can do to put some extra.

因为故事背景设定在萨吉诺，所以就有那种感觉，你会想，好吧。

Because it's supposed to take place in Saginaw, it was kinda one of those things where you you kinda like, alright.

还能往里面放点什么呢？

What else can we put in here?

比如咖啡杯就挺合理的，还有那个戴帽子的人，虽然帽子有点小。

Like, coffee cups made sense, the guy wearing the hat, even though the hat was a little small.

那也说得通。

It made sense.

那个戴帽子的人在哪儿？

Where was that guy with the hat?

他们是在街上采访那个人的。

They they interview the guy out, on the street.

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

他戴着一顶橙色的帽子，那是在密歇根北部的一个小镇。

And he's got this orange hat in it, and it's a town in Northern Michigan.

他是邻居，对吧？

-He's the neighbor, right?

他是邻居。

He's the neighbor.

好的。

Okay.

这里有一些冷知识。

Here's some trivia.

准备好听冷知识了吗？

You ready for some trivia?

好的。

-Okay.

演员弗雷德·基廷。

Actor's Fred Keating.

弗雷德·基廷是亚历克斯·卡尔弗特的……

And Fred Keating is Alex Calvert's...

杰克。

Jack.

杰克。

Jack.

杰克的祖父。

Jack's grandfather.

弗雷德·基廷饰演——科特尼：妈妈的父亲。

Fred Keating played -COURTNEY: the mom's father.

比如，我们曾去过……

Like, went to We'd

去见杰克的祖父母。

go meet Jack's grandparents.

他是祖父。

-He's the grandfather.

对，他是那个教父。

-Yeah, he's the godmess.

他后来回来了，

He comes back in

在第十四季左右。

season In season fourteen or something.

哇。

-Wow.

从第一季就开始了。

-From season one.

哇。

-Wow.

真不可思议。

Crazy.

因为我当时是因为我导演的——哇。

Because I was because I directed -Wow.

我导演的。

Directed it.

哇。

-Wow.

我当时就坐在那儿看。

I That's was sitting there watching it.

我就想，那看起来像……我抬头一看，心想，那是弗雷德。

I'm like, That looks like And I looked up, I'm like, That's Fred.

那是弗雷德。

That's Fred.

哇。

Wow.

他就只出现在那一集——罗德尼：是的。

He's just in that one -RODNEY: Yeah.

就一个镜头。

Just one scene.

哇。

Wow.

那萨吉诺在哪儿？

And where is Saginaw?

我举起手来。

I'm holding up my hand.

罗德尼：就在这儿，

-RODNEY: Right here in

哦，就在大拇指上。

the Oh, right on the thumb.

那儿是萨吉诺湾，

There's Saginaw Bay,

也就是

which

是

is

就在那下面。

Down there.

萨吉诺、弗林特、米德兰是陶氏化学总部所在地。

Saginaw, Flint, Midland is where Dow Chemical has their headquarters.

好的。

-Okay.

我大学时在那里实习，在视频部门。

-I interned there in college in their video department.

是的，他们确实有个视频部门。

Yes, they have a video department.

那挺好的。

That was good.

问你个问题，说到电影引用什么的。

Question for you, talking about cinema references and whatnot.

剧本里有一句台词，说他是能弯曲勺子的超能力者。

There's a line in the script, he's a spoonbender.

我猜这是《黑客帝国》里的梗吧？

I assume that's a Matrix reference?

是不是这个意思

I mean, is that what

哦，这个是……

this Oh, this is...

不，我不这么认为。

No, I don't think so.

我觉得只是……

I think it's just...

那个勺子弯曲的桥段有点像杂耍表演，你懂吧？

The spoonbender was kind of like a sideshow thing, you know?

我自己倒没觉得它像《黑客帝国》。

I I didn't take it as Matrix myself.

我就把它当成那种在嘉年华上能弯曲勺子的孩子，或者像伟大的克雷斯金那样的魔术师之类的。

I just took it as, you know, the kid at the carnival, you know, that could bend the spoons or the great Kreskin or something like that.

明白了。

Gotcha.

就是那个噱头而已。

Sort of just -Just that gag.

对，就只是那个噱头。

Was just that gag.

其实跟《黑客帝国》没什么关系。

It wasn't really the Matrix thing.

对，听起来这像是编剧的问题。

Yeah, sounds like that might be a writer question.

不过我们之前没聊过这个，但这集里他们穿成了神父的样子，我在好多回放视频里都见过，这个设定挺有意思的。

But, we didn't talk about this, but this is the episode where they're dressed as priests, which I've seen on lots of, like, playback videos, and, you know, it's a funny setup.

他们有个想法，然后门就开了。

You know, they have this idea, and then the doors open.

他们穿着神父的服装站在那里。

There they are in their priests' outfits.

我心里想，哦，就是这一集。

I'm like, Oh, this is the one.

就是那一集。

This is that one.

有个花絮视频里，他们没穿袖子，还自称是奇普代尔斯舞团的舞者。

There's an Outtake video where they're sleeveless and introduce themselves as Chippendales dancers.

这背后有什么故事？

What's the story behind that?

我一直很惊讶，我们居然真的能跟那两个人合作完成剧集。

I was always amazed that we actually got episodes done with those two.

多想想

Think a lot

很多人都会知道这是怎么运作的。

of people are gonna know how that works.

有意思的地方在于，你不用去打断他们。

The thing that's fun is that you don't cut.

你就让他们自由发挥就好。

You just let them have their moments.

对。

Yes.

你懂的？

You know?

因为如果你剪掉那些生气的片段，大家就会觉得‘得赶紧继续干活’。

Because if you cut and get angry, it's like, We gotta get going.

这样能让整个剧组的心情保持更好。

It just keeps the crew in a better mood.

我觉得这能让大家保持干劲，因为每个人都玩得很开心，脸上都带着笑容。

I feel like it keeps you moving because it's like everybody's having fun and everybody's got a smile on their face.

所以杰瑞德和詹森总是随时准备好一起闹着玩。

So those two, Jared and Jensen, were always ready for silliness.

而且他们热得不行，就要求……

And they would get so hot that they asked...

每次穿外套的时候，他们都要求穿无袖的。

Anytime they're wearing an outer coat, they ask for sleeveless.

哦。

Oh.

因为他们太热了。

Because they're hot.

是性感的那种热，还是天气的热？

Sexy hot or warm hot?

我觉得是天气的热。

Warm hot, I think.

还是两者都有？

Both?

那你得去问他们本人了。

You'd have to ask ask them.

不过他们确实做得比……

But they they do it more than...

这可不光是神父的着装问题。

It's not just the priest's outfit.

如果你……

If you...

要是他们把外套脱了，里面其实也没袖子。

If they took off their coats, it would be no sleeves underneath.

而且……

And it...

尤其是跟杰瑞德在一起的时候。

Especially with Jared.

他是个……

He's he's a

他穿毛衣。

He's a sweater.

他就像个桑拿房。

He's a he's a sauna.

那小子简直是个移动桑拿房。

He's a sauna, that boy.

所以我知道有几次……

So I know there's a couple times when...

我记得好像还有一次他们打算不穿裤子进来，不过后来我们也就没再提这茬了。

I think there was even one where they were gonna come in without any pants on, but I think we kinda moved on.

好多失望的粉丝。

A lot of disappointed fans.

没穿裤子的神父。

Priests without pants.

对。

Yes.

好多失望的罗布·本尼迪克特。

A lot of disappointed guys named Rob Benedict.

新专辑。

New album.

等等。

Wait.

所以那个……

So then that...

那对所有人来说都是个惊喜吗？

Was that a surprise to everybody?

他们打开门，门一开。

They open it up, the door opens up.

你一进去，就像……

I mean, once you go through it, you know, it's like...

我知道这出现在花絮里。

There's a I know it's in the gag reel.

所以

So

所以那个片段被收进了那一季的幕后花絮里。

So it's in the gag reel for that season.

我觉得每个……

I think that's been in the gag reel for every...

都在漫展上放得特别多。

I mean, that plays a lot at conventions.

确实如此。

It does.

确实能播。

It does play.

那个镜头放得挺多的。

That shot plays a lot.

而且那时候挺有意思的，因为我们总算不用一直演那些假装成FBI探员的戏码了。

And and back then, it was fun because we kinda got away from being other things than FBI agents faking it out.

那是第一年嘛，所以所有这些都挺新鲜，演起来也很有趣。

And so this was year one, so all that stuff was fairly new and fun to play.

哦，就是……

Oh, it's...

如果他们扮演神父呢？

What if they're priests?

如果他们扮演水管工之类的呢？

What if they're, you know, plumbers and, you know, that sort of thing?

我特别喜欢那种电视剪辑的紧凑感，大家都很热情。

I do love just because of the truncated TV ness of it all, how welcoming people are.

比如，你好。

Like, hello.

我们是镇上新来的两位神父。

We're two new priests in town.

那快进来吧。

Well, get on in here.

这里是密歇根。

It's Michigan.

抱歉。

Sorry.

我能自己上楼去参观一下楼上吗？

Can I go upstairs by myself and peruse your upstairs?

当然可以啊，神父。

You darn tootin' you can, father.

走吧。

Come on.

他得带着那个激光小玩意儿去洗手间。

He had to go to the restroom with laser gizmo.

我刚才在想，谁家的……

I was just wondering, who has...

唯一的卫生间在楼上？

Their only bathroom is upstairs?

哦，不是每个人都住在有那种设施的城堡里。

Oh, not everybody lives in a in a castle with a

大人。

sire.

不是所有人都像你一样有五个浴室，好吗。

Not not all of us have five bathrooms wrong.

天哪。

Jeez Louise.

每人一个浴室。

A bathroom for every person.

这就是他的座右铭。

That's his motto.

还有网络。

And Internet.

我的天。

Good lord.

家里几乎每个房间都有网络。

Internet Internet in almost every room in your home.

说真的，你过的完全是另一种生活。

Literally, you live a different life.

先别急，听我说。

Just hold that thought.

我们马上回来。

We're coming right back.

大家好。

Hi, everybody.

我是罗伯·贝内迪克特。

It's Rob Benedict.

本期节目由Vinted赞助播出。

This episode is sponsored by Vinted.

你知道Vinted吗？

Do you know about Vinted?

好。

Okay.

看看你的衣柜。

Take a look at your closet.

如果你跟我一样，那就是……

If you're like me, it's...

衣服实在太多了。

I've got too many clothes.

真的没有地方放了。

No.

我的问题是，我对象衣服太多，小衣柜根本装不下，所以我们老得想办法清理衣柜，腾出地方放别的东西。

My problem is I'm with someone who has too many clothes for a small closet, so we're always looking for ways to thin out our closet to make for room for other things.

有个App让这事儿变得特别简单，它就是Vinted。

And there's an app that makes that so easy to do, and that app is Vinted.

它是一个二手交易平台App，让像你和我这样的普通人也能轻松卖掉穿过的时尚单品，顺便赚点外快。

It's a secondhand marketplace app that makes it easy for everyday sellers, people like you and me, to sell pre loved fashion and earn some extra money.

也许你的衣柜没我那么满，但如果你想赚点零花钱，或者只是偶尔想大扫除一下，它都很适合你。

So maybe your closet's not full like mine, but you're looking to make a little extra money, or you just like to clean out every once in a while.

这就是为什么Vinted很棒，因为你可以重新利用你的衣服，还能顺便赚点零花钱。

That's why Vintage is great because you can repurpose your clothing and make a little cash on the side.

Vinted用起来太方便了，卖衣服变得特别简单。

Vintage was just so easy that it made selling my clothes simple.

我选择Vinted是因为它没有销售费用，所以你赚到的钱都归你自己。

I turned to Vinted because there are no selling fees, so you keep everything you earn.

所以这是双赢的。

And so it's win win.

你……

You...

我清理了衣柜，赚了点外快，现在感觉好多了，因为我的衣柜……

I've been able to clean out my closet, make a little extra money, and I now feel better because I have a lot...

整洁多了，不再那么乱。

Much less cluttered closet.

这个应用可以免费下载。

The app is free to download.

在Vinted上发布商品很快。

Listing items on Vinted is quick.

很简单。

It's simple.

而且一旦商品卖出，Vinted会为你生成预付运费标签。

And once the item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you.

所以，这有什么理由不这么做呢？

So it's like, why wouldn't you?

那你准备好清理衣柜，顺便赚点外快了吗？

So are you ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money?

免费下载Vinted应用，开始发布商品吧。

Download the Vinted app for free and start listing.

没有卖家费用，你赚的每一分钱都归你。

With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn.

你有一条最爱的毯子，一杯刚倒好的饮料，还有一个冷案在流媒体队列里等着你。

You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue.

你不只是在看真实犯罪节目。

You're not just watching true crime.

你是在沙发上舒舒服服地当侦探。

You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch.

欢迎收听《她看的谋杀案》播客，我们在这里回顾、剖析，甚至有点过度解读那些在热门流媒体平台上最精彩、最疯狂的真实犯罪纪录片。

Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers.

是配偶干的吗？

Did the spouse do it?

为什么那个可疑的邻居七月份还戴皮手套？

Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July?

为什么这家伙会同意在这部纪录片里接受采访？

Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary?

我们问的那些尖锐问题，正是你常常对着电视大喊大叫想问的。

We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV.

所以每周我们都会拆解那些让你彻夜难眠的剧情反转、误导线索和荒诞纪录片。

So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

剧情跌宕起伏，氛围温馨舒适，妥妥的沙发侦探范儿。

It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy.

裹好你的小毯子，赶紧订阅吧。

Grab your throw blanket and hit subscribe.

在任意播客平台搜索《Murder She Watched》，咱们一起破案。

Search Murder She Watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

感谢大家支持超自然现象，无论过去还是现在。

Thank you for supporting Supernatural then and now.

现在回到节目正题。

And now back to the show.

你提到他随身带着的那个玩意儿。

You mentioned that the the gizmo he carries.

那个玩意儿，我记不清之前或之后有没有见过。

That gizmo, I don't remember seeing that gizmo before or after.

那是什么？

What is that?

我觉得Kripke当时是……

I think Kripke was...

我觉得我们所有人都想试试看。

I think all of us were like, let's try it.

然后一旦它……

And then once it once it...

道具组的人也都很支持……

Like, and the prop folks were all cool with...

这肯定会很棒。

This is gonna be so great.

然后我们拍了那些交叉的绿色东西。

And then we had the crossing green things.

然后Kripke看了样片。

And and Kripke looked at dailies.

他说，哦，我们再也不这么干了。

He goes, oh, we're never doing that again.

哥们，我觉得……

Dude, I think...

我们大家都觉得，我们的道具更偏向传统实物。

And all of us were kinda like, our guys are more analog.

不是那种数字化的。

They're not digital.

而且看起来真的……

And it looked it looked so...

我不确定那些激光是真的还是假的。

I mean, I don't know if those lasers are real or fake.

那是

That was

全都是真的。

all real.

但它们看起来像是假的。

But they looked they looked fake.

就像是真的，真到有点离谱。

You know, like, were real to the point of being Right.

太离谱了。

Ridiculous.

而且，嗯，当时要么是穿过它们，要么是直走。

And, well, it was one of those crossing them or going straight.

我说，咱们穿过它们吧。

And I said, let's cross them.

至少那样能让你感觉到它在穿过图案。

At least that gives you a sense that it's going across the pattern.

但那样都行得通。

But that all worked.

那是一个可行的……

That was a working...

那上面的视频屏幕是实时的，而且还有……

That video screen on it was live, and there was

你知道……

you know...

他当时希望找到什么呢？

What what was he hoping to find?

就是，什么什么什么

Like, what what what

他在寻找异常，在……

He was looking for anomalies in the...

寻找冷点，低温区域。

Looking for cool, cold spots.

那应该可以吧。

Would've okay.

它会突出显示一个区域，那个……

It would've highlighted, you know, an area that...

因为什么都没有改变，因为那里什么都没有。

Because nothing changed because nothing was there.

我忍不住想，他们在拍那个的时候，如果能听到现场收音，就像Jensen走过，然后激光打到Brad Creaser的眼睛上，妈的……

I I couldn't help but think that while they're shooting that, if you could hear the production audio, it's like Jensen walking through, and then as the laser hits Brad Creaser's eye, son of a...

操。

Fuck.

停。

Cut.

我不知道。

I don't know.

Brad什么时候出来的？

When did Brad come out?

Brad一开始并不在那里。

Brad wasn't there right at the beginning.

嗯，激光强到能穿透墙壁，在他家里打中他。

Well, the laser was strong enough to go through walls and hit him in his home.

对。

Yes.

确实是这样。

It did.

但是，是的，我觉得它……

But, yes, I think it it...

还有，我……

Also, I'm...

我一直在等有人在他做那个动作的时候配上光剑的音效。

I was waiting for somebody to be the lightsaber sound effect as he was doing it.

没错。

Exactly.

不过，是啊，那只是一场戏。

But, yeah, it was only one scene.

谢天谢地，我们把它删掉了。

Thank God we we got rid of it.

而且我们后来也意识到，别在这些家伙的道具上搞得太花哨。

And we realized after that, it was like, don't get too fancy with the props that these guys have.

尽量保持简单。

I mean, keep it as simple as possible.

所以你说那个是实物道具，但悬浮的刀和悬浮的枪显然不是。

Well, so you say that was practical, but the floating knife and the floating gun, obviously, were not.

我们尝试了很多种方案，比如用机械臂来模拟持枪的动作，或者把真枪放在支架上，后期再把支架P掉。

We tried a lot of iterations on, physical nature of trying to do the gun on an arm with a thing that moved, where it was a real gun on a pedestal, and then we'd paint out the pedestal.

但效果并不理想……

But it wasn't...

动作不够流畅，达不到我们的要求。

Couldn't move with enough fluidity that we needed.

看起来总是有点卡顿，还带点弹跳感。

It was always kind of jerky, and it kind of bounced.

而且落地后特别僵硬。

And it was so static, too, once it landed.

就像飘在空中一样。

Like, it had a floating nature.

而且它要做的事情很多。

And there's a lot it had to do.

它得指向迪恩，指向她，然后转向他自己。

It had to point to Dean, point to her, and then turn on himself.

那这是怎么做到的呢？

So how is that done?

你们最后是怎么处理的？

What did you do in the end?

魔法。

Magic.

谢谢大家收听。

Thank you, everybody, for listening.

今天你们学到了很多关于电影制作的知识。

You've learned a lot today about how movies

你可不能透露太多。

You are can't give away too much.

这就会剧透。

It gives away.

不。

No.

我们在吧台上放了一把枪，塑料枪，这样大家都能看到同一个视角。

We had a gun, plastic gun, on a bar, and so everybody could get the common viewpoint.

视线？

The eye line?

视线。

The eye line.

然后我们就用这个来试，试完之后再不用它拍一遍。

And so we played around with that, and then we'd shoot it again without it.

每个人都要自己去找那个位置。

And, you know, everybody had to kind of find where it was.

然后我觉得我们最后拍出来的效果有点……

And then I think we ended up with a slightly...

也许那是真枪。

Maybe it was the real gun.

它就在那里，然后我们得在没有它的情况下再拍一次。

It was in there, and then, we'd have to do it again without it.

然后伊万可以在后期把它合成回去。

Then Ivan could, you know, mat it back in.

所以后来伊万在后期把所有都做了？

So then Ivan, in post, did all of it?

差不多吧。

Pretty much.

对，是的。

Mean, yeah.

刀的部分，有些是实物放在桌上，用磁铁和线来移动它。

The knife, you know, some of the stuff where it's physical on the table that was done with with magnets wires, you know, moving it.

伊万想出了一个绝妙的主意。

Ivan came up with a brilliant idea.

我觉得是伊万。

I think it was Ivan.

也许是马克。

Maybe it was Mark.

如果当时马克·梅洛什也在场，我想他可能是在操作机器，去处理那个“眼”的部分。

If Mark Meloche was with us then, I think he might have been on one of the machines, to touch the eye Dude.

就是眼泪那部分。

The tear.

那个镜头拍得真棒。

Was such a great shot.

我一直在等聊到这儿，因为那个镜头太酷了。

I was I was waiting to get to that because that shot is so cool.

那你给我讲讲那个镜头的素材是怎么处理的吧。

So walk me through the plates for that shot.

比如，底片是什么样的？

Like, what was the plate?

那个其实挺简单的，因为就只有她的眼睛。

That was actually quite simple because it was just her eye.

其他全是数字做的。

Everything else was digital.

眼泪也是数字做的。

The tear was digital.

不。

No.

那全是数字的。

That's all digital.

而且你可能没意识到，你看到的是……

And and what you don't realize is you're seeing...

眼泪就在那里。

The tear is there.

在她眼睛里涌出来。

It's welling in her eye.

然后当刀尖慢慢、轻轻地碰到它的时候，眼泪就渗出来了。

And as the knife blade, the tip of it just barely slowly touches it, and then it leaks.

那

That

真是个大大的惊喜。

was a big surprise.

我觉得伊万之前一直瞒着咱们呢。

I think Ivan hid that from us for a while.

然后当它出现的时候，感觉就像……哦，因为那一刻的真实感

And then when it happened, it was like, oh, because then that moment of realism

把数字技术带进了现实。对。

It took digital into real Yeah.

用一种很酷的方式，让真实的人融入其中。

Real people in a really cool way.

而且这真的让人挺震撼的，你知道吧……

And it really messed, you know...

再说，那是多少年前的事了。

Again, that's how many years ago.

现在的话，那肯定会是真正的……

Nowadays, that would have been a real...

会是一个更加生动、更流畅的滴落效果。

I mean, it would be a much more animated, trickle.

而且可能没那么好。

And maybe not as good.

也许吧。

Maybe.

因为那个效果很成功。

Because that worked.

我想象不出比那更好的效果了。

I can't imagine it working better than that.

确实，兄弟。

No, man.

那让我……

So let me...

我得问点细节。

I got to ask details.

她眼里涌出的泪水，那是实拍的效果，还是也是数字做的？

So the tear in her eye welling up, that's practical or that's also digital?

那全是

That's all

数字的。

digital.

所以你只是拍了一个她眼球的超特写镜头？

So all you did was an incredibly ECU shot of her eyeball?

对。

Yes.

然后很多……

A lot of then the

ECU，就是极端特写镜头。

ECU extreme close-up.

跟贝丝说一下，好的。

Talk with Beth about, okay.

现在镜头越来越近，你吸一口气，或者让她显得更害怕。

Now it's getting closer, and you're taking a breath in or just so she's more afraid.

然后她的眼睛睁开了。

And her eye opens.

也许它会睁开。

Maybe it opens up.

就是为了让演员们大概知道技术上实际发生了什么。

Just to give the actors some sense of what technically is, you know, physically is happening.

现在我的眼睛有点疼。

And It's hurting my eyes right now.

有点……

A little bit...

我根本没法想这件事。

I can't I can't even think about it.

拍那些镜头真的特别好玩。

It was it was so much fun to shoot all that.

我们还拍了一个版本。

And we did a version.

在早期剪辑里有一个版本，比现在看到的要恐怖得多。

There's a version in one of the earlier cuts, which is way more horrific than what is seen.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, really?

就像……

There's like...

我拍这些镜头的时候就知道，标准……

I did all these shots knowing that standards...

我们有个标准流程，就是那种拉锯战。

There's the standards arm wrestling that we do.

能展示多少，不能展示多少？

How much can you show and how much can't you show?

然后刀举起来，碰到她的眼睛。

So the knife goes up, touches her eye.

他们还挺宽容的。

They were cool.

然后刀稍微往后收一点，像是放松一下，接着他又往前刺过去。

Then it rears back a little bit like you relax, And then he sends it forward.

然后你看到刀往前去，刚开始碰到她。

And you see it go forward, just start to hit her.

然后我们切到她头后面的墙上，你看到刀刃插进墙里。

And then we cut to the wall on the backside of her head, you see the blade go in to the wall.

哇。

Woah.

在那之后，我还有另一个镜头，因为厨房里有个柱子，所以从那个角度看。

And on the backside of that, I had another one which was looking, because it was like a pillar in the kitchen.

然后我说，好吧，我们需要的是刀片完全穿透过去，这样刀尖就能从另一侧露出来。

And then I said, all right, what we need is we need the blade to come all the way through so the point of it sticking on the other side.

这就是DP发过来的版本。

That's how DP sent it.

我们很清楚标准审核那边多少会有点问题，所以我们尽量做得夸张一些，想着之后还能再收回来一点。

Knowing full well that standards was gonna have some issue here and there, we we make it as overblown as we can knowing that we'll pull it back some, I think.

更像是看看我们能蒙混到什么程度。

You know, it's it's more like, you know, let's see what we can get away with.

但在早期剪辑版里，那场面要恐怖得多，因为我们还有这些其他的片段要……

But but it was a lot more horrific in an early cut on that because we had all these other pieces to

……要放进去。

To play.

但这不是很聪明吗？

But isn't that smart?

因为那样你就是在按你说的做。

Because then you're doing what you said.

你基本上就是在用希区柯克那套把戏，我们就是要让你看这边这个东西，对吧。

You're basically doing the Alfred Hitchcock trickery of, we're gonna we're gonna make you look at this thing over here Mhmm.

所以你就让我们拿这个。

So you let us have this.

对，你

Yeah, you

对，我的意思是，你总是想要……

over Yeah, mean, you always want...

当了很长时间的剪辑师，你总是想让素材自己说话。

Being an editor for a long time, you always want the pieces to decide.

如果你不拍那些镜头，那之后你就没有那个选择了。

If you don't shoot them, then you don't have that option later on.

所以如果你说，天哪，我真希望我当时拍了个特写。

So if you go, Gosh, I wish I I would've shot a close-up.

嗯，你懂吧？

-Mm You know?

或者这里的插入镜头，可能本来会是个不错的叙事手法。

Or, you know, the insert here of this might've been good storytelling.

你说到……

You talk about...

抱歉，罗伯。

I'm sorry, Rob.

请继续。

Go ahead.

我刚才想说

I was just gonna say

你在这部片里请到了很棒的客串明星。

you got some great guest stars in this.

她表现很棒，麦克斯也很棒。

She was great, and Max was great.

你刚才想说的就是这个吗？

Is that what you were gonna say?

我正是想这么说。

Exactly what was gonna say.

因为他们演得太好了。

Because they were so good.

你在这部剧里请到了很棒的客串明星。

-You had great guest stars in this.

那你参与了多少——等等，先别急。

-So how involved were you in -Do that

你还记得那个选角过程吗？

you remember that casting process?

贝丝，我想，是从洛杉矶选来的。

-Beth, I think, was cast out of LA.

布兰登·布兰登·弗莱彻当时在

Brandon Brandon Fletcher was in

维克多维尔。

Victorville.

真的吗？

-Really?

他是加拿大人。

He's Canadian.

而且他当时特别年轻。

And he was really young.

我现在再看的时候，心里总有个声音在说：哦，一眼就能认出是他，因为他那股劲儿太足了。

And, you know, I think there's a part of me, when I watch it now, I'm like, Oh, you know it's him right away because he's so intense.

不过他的经历挺有意思的，而且跟他合作特别愉快。

But his story is interesting, and he is wonderful to work with.

后来他还演了特里·吉列姆的电影。

He was in a Terry Gilliam movie after that.

真的吗？

Really?

他之后还接了不少戏。

He's done a bunch of stuff.

他演过不少东西，是的。

He's a bunch of stuff, yeah.

但他演得非常好。

But he was fantastic.

而且在他和Jared之间，后面有一场戏，就是突然意识到，哦，你妈妈也做过那种事？

And just between him and Jared, there's that scene later where the realization that, oh, your mom did that too?

哇，然后你爸爸就疯了。

Wow, and your dad went crazy.

太酷了。

Cool.

那场戏拍起来特别有意思，因为很简单，就全靠两个演员的表演。

That scene was super fun to shoot because it was simple, and you just relied on what the two actors were doing.

你，你……

You you...

我觉得，好像有……

Like, I think there's got...

我想特别提一下，能请到这种级别的客串演员真的太棒了，因为这部剧的成败很大程度上就取决于这些配角的表现，真的。

I wanna shine a light on how great it is to get guest stars that level because the show rises and falls on that support staff, really, you know?

而且这条故事线里，他可不是只露脸一场的龙套。

And that storyline, this is not just a one scene guy.

他是那种一出场，整条故事线都围绕着他的人物弧光展开的角色。

This is a guy who comes in, and the whole story revolves around his arc.

而通常我们找人来试镜，也就是一两场戏的量。

And, you know, you have somebody to do one or two scenes in an audition.

你希望他们当天能打出全垒打，但这并不总是发生。

You hope they're home run hitters on the day, and that's not always the case.

他确实做到了这一点。

And he sure sure as heck was.

但把你们俩选进这部剧真是绝了。

But it's like casting you two on the show.

这招太妙了，因为你们都很擅长自己的工作。

It was brilliant because you're good at what you do.

你全力以赴，而且你带来的更多。

You bring your A game, and you also bring more.

你会思考角色。

You think about character.

你会思考这个人是什么样的人，或者他是谁。

You think about what this person or who this person is.

布兰登也是一样。

And Brandon was just the same.

贝丝也是。

So was Beth.

你知道吗？

You know?

叔叔和爸爸那边要做的少一些，因为他们参与的原因不同。

There was less to do with the uncle and the dad because they were kind of in it for other reasons.

但作为导演，你希望选角选得恰到好处，因为那样在很多方面都能减轻你的负担。

But, you know, it's your hope as a director to get that casting in the right spot because so much then is taken off your shoulders in so many ways.

有时候演员进来，你以为他是那样的人，结果发现他是另一种人，部分原因是因为他们紧张。

You know, you get an actor that comes in and you think they're one thing, and they turn to be another thing, and part of it is they're nervous.

而且这是新节目。

They're it's a new show.

你知道，有些东西就是这样。

They're you know, there's certain things.

那你就得花更多时间去修正或塑造，而不是花更多时间去发挥。

Well, then you've got to spend more time fixing or molding as opposed to more time playing.

因为如果你找到合适的人，比如我，我可以轻松地把东西抛给你们。

Because if you get somebody like, I can throw stuff to you guys easy.

这超级有趣，因为你们很快就能理解我的意思，然后我们就开始即兴发挥。

And it's super fun because you get the idea very quickly, and then we riff.

一旦即兴发挥开始，奇迹就可能发生。

And once the riffing goes, that's when the magic can happen.

你懂吗？

You know?

我觉得这就是我们得到的结果。

And I think that's what we get.

而且我觉得布伦丹在这方面做得非常好。

And I think, you know, Brendan did really good on that.

贝丝也做得很好。

And Beth did, too.

你提到了贝丝。

You mentioned Beth.

你知道吗？

You know?

她……

She...

贝丝·布罗德里克，

Beth Broderick,

她

who

她演的是继母爱丽丝·米勒，她其实没有……

plays, Alice Miller, the stepmother, she doesn't have...

就像你整集都在观察她，然后你会觉得，

Like, you're kind of watching her through the episode, and you're like,

哦，她演得真不错。

Oh, she's doing a nice job.

她确实有不少戏份。

She's got some stuff to do.

不是那种很重的戏。

-Not heavy lifting.

即使他当面质问她，她也只是说，好吧。

Even when he confronts her, it's like, Okay.

然后当她坐下来跟警察讲事情经过时，那真是精彩绝伦。

And then when she sits down with the cops and tells the story, it's just lights out.

太棒了。

It's great.

不，她表现得特别棒。

No, she was wonderful.

而且又是同样的情况。

And again, same thing.

作为导演，你在选角的时候总是希望演员能把角色演活，还能带来一些你原本没想到的情绪、色彩或者其他元素。

You you hope as a director when you're casting that that person can bring to life the character and and bring in other moods, colors, whatever you wanna call it, that you didn't think about.

选角这事儿里总藏着些惊喜。

There's always stuff in casting.

我总是很惊讶，因为现在我们完全进入了视频试镜这个阶段。对。

I'm always amazed because now we're just into this video casting Yeah.

那感觉完全不一样……

That it's so much more...

像我们当时是温哥华为数不多的还在坚持传统试镜的剧之一，尤其是到了后期更是如此。

Like, we were one of the very few shows in Vancouver, especially toward the later years, that was still going to casting.

而且效果真的好了很多。

And It's so much better.