Route 666 with Composer Jay Gruska (S1EP13)

我是说，被念得乱七八糟。

I mean, mangled.

Sprite，spate。

Sprite, spate.

人们总是会多加一个r音。

People wouldn't r in it all the time.

Sprite。

Sprite.

里面没有r音。

There's no r in it.

我经常被叫成Benedict。

I get Benedict a lot.

真的吗？

Really?

不是开玩笑的那种。

Not as a joke.

人们都叫他Benedict。

People say Benedict.

但是，杰，我觉得有点不好意思，因为你知道，当我们有摄影师的时候

But but Jay, I feel bad because, you know, when we had cinematographer

Sayers Blade du Sore？

Sayers Blade du Sore?

是的。

Yes.

我，我，Blade du Sore。

I I Blade du Sore.

哦。

Oh.

但你必须……

But you gotta...

那太难了。

That's hard.

但我一直以为你的名字是杰伊·格鲁斯卡。

But Jay Gruska is what I thought your name was all this time.

是杰伊·格鲁斯卡。

It's Jay Gruska.

杰伊·格鲁斯卡。

Jay Gruska.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

其实……

It's...

可能一百年前在波兰老家，姓就是格鲁斯卡。

It was probably Gruska in, you know, old country Poland a hundred years ago.

也许格鲁斯卡更准确一些。

Maybe Gruska would probably be more accurate.

不过，是的，

But, yeah,

是的，我们不会再犯那个错误了。

it's We'll never make that mistake again.

不会的，而且我觉得对这个播客来说，现在大家知道背后的真实故事很重要。

No, and I think it's important for this podcast that people now know the real story behind

杰伊·格鲁斯卡。

Jay Gruska.

这位作曲家的名字。

The composer's name.

一切都好。

It's all good.

而且不像我们搞砸莎拉的名字那样，我们大概不会收到埃马纽埃尔·马克龙的愤怒邮件，他当时被我们的“莎拉·拉·杜·塞尔”冒犯了。

And unlike when we screwed up Sarah's name, we probably won't get an angry email from Emmanuel Macron, who was offended by our Sarah's la du ser.

杰伊，老兄，你和鲍勃·辛格有着悠久而传奇的历史，可能还有点可疑的历史。

Jay, dude, you have a long and storied history with Bob Singer, probably a questionable history.

但在我们深入探讨那段关系之前，我想知道的是《邪恶力量》。

But what I wanna know before we dive into that relationship is Supernatural.

你是怎么、什么时候、在哪里、怎么参与进来的？

How, when, where, how did you get involved?

给我们讲讲你的起源故事吧。

Give us your origin story.

嗯，你们肯定知道，Kripke和Chris Lennertz是大学时的好朋友。

Well, as you guys, I'm sure know, Kripke and Chris Lennertz were college buddies.

Chris被聘用是理所当然的，不仅因为他才华横溢，还因为他们是好朋友，这很美好。

And Chris got hired as he should have been, not only for his prodigious talent, but because they were buddies and it's a beautiful

这里有个忠诚的故事。

loyalty story there.

别让我开始讲他们俩。

Don't get me started on both

那两个人。

those guys.

我可以轻松花一个小时讲他们，以及我对他们俩的尊敬和爱。

I could easily do the hour on them and my respect and love for them both.

但他被雇来制作试播集。

But he got hired to do the pilot.

然后我觉得，因为埃里克在电视圈是个新人，你知道，他被安排了一个经验丰富的制片人鲍勃·辛格。

And then I think because Eric was a newbie in the television talent, world, you know, he sort of was assigned a showrunner in Bob Singer whose experience was vast.

而且，你知道，鲍勃知道克里斯被雇来制作试播集。

And, you know, Bob knew that Chris had been hired to do the pilot.

然后，你知道，我想有那么一刻，鲍勃说，好吧，我有我的人选。

And there was, you know, I guess there was a moment where Bob said, Well, I have my guy.

然后，你知道，埃里克说，我有我的人选。

And, you know, and Eric said, I have my guy.

我一直是这么理解的，当然，克里斯做了试播集，我一开始以为他们会看看哪个效果更好，另一个可能会被解雇。

And the way that I always assumed it, and of course, Chris did the pilot, and the way that I assumed it at the beginning was that they were going to see which felt better and the other one was going to possibly be let go.

而且，你知道，我对自己有一定的信心，但我当时以为被解雇的会是我，因为那层已有的关系。

And I, you know, I have a reasonable amount of confidence, but I kind of assumed that it was going to be me that was let go because of that pre existing relationship.

当我见到克里斯时，三十秒内我就喜欢上他了。

And when I met Chris, I mean in thirty seconds I loved the guy.

所以……

So...

然后我其实参加了试播集的剪辑会议，因为我已经被聘用了，当时设想是他来执导试播集，我来执导下一集。

And then I was actually at the spotting session for the pilot because I had already been hired under this idea that he would do the pilot and I would do the very next episode.

然后……

And then the...

我觉得大家心照不宣的是，看看我们更喜欢谁。

I think the unspoken part was, let's see who we like better.

我是这么理解的，而且，当然，这让我非常高兴。

That's the way that I perceived it and you know, much to certainly my joy.

我们各自在项目里都有自己的风格，结果两个人都被要求继续做下去，更准确地说，是我被要求继续做下去。

We each had our own voice in the thing and both got asked to continue and more accurately, I got asked to continue.

这就是事情的开始。

And that was the beginning of it.

而且，你知道，我提到过埃里克和克里斯之间的那种忠诚关系。

And you know, mean, talked, you know, I mentioned the loyalty between, you know, Eric and Chris.

我和鲍勃·辛格也有过同样的经历，你知道吗。

I've had the same thing with Bob Singer, you know.

他几乎在他之后做的每一部剧里都会叫我。

He just called me on almost just about every show he's done since...

我和他合作的第一部剧是《露易斯与克拉克：新超人冒险》。

First show I did with him was Lois and Clark, New Adventures of Superman.

哇。

Wow.

所以，你知道，这种深厚的忠诚是很罕见的，而且……

So, you know, it's a rare thing, you know, that sweet loyalty and...

这确实也很罕见。

It's And also a rare thing.

我想我们和克里斯聊过一点这个，但我觉得一个剧有两个作曲人也很少见。

I think we talked to Chris about this a little bit, but I think it's also a rare thing that there are two composers for a show.

摄影指导经常是这样，但作曲人通常不会。

You see it a lot with DPs, but not usually with composers.

我说得对吗？

Am I correct?

完全正确。

Completely correct.

然后讽刺的是，对我来说，《邪恶力量》是我连续第二部需要轮换配乐的剧。

And then ironically for me, Supernatural was the second show in a row that I had alternated.

我做了《圣女魔咒》的全部八季，并且在那部剧里轮换配乐，这是我以前从未做过的。

I did all eight seasons of Charmed and alternated on that and I had never done that before.

我参与过的每一部剧，你知道，我在三十年间做了很多一小时的剧情剧。

Every series I've done, you know, I've done a lot of, you know, one hour dramas in three decades.

那是第一部我被要求轮换配乐的剧，然后紧接着就开始了这部。

And that was the first one that I was asked to alternate then going right into this.

我想一开始最让人担心的是，你怎么保持音乐的主线、连贯性以及主题上的联系等等。

And I guess the scary part at first is how do you maintain a musical through line and a continuity and thematic connection and all that.

但结果这两部剧都成功了，尤其是在《邪恶力量》里。

But it happened to work in both both the shows and especially in Supernatural.

尤其是《邪恶力量》前几季，可能真的就是第一季。

Especially those first few seasons of Supernatural, maybe really just the first season.

你知道，每一集都像一部独立的小电影，每周一个怪物那种。

You know, everything was such a one one off little movie on its own monster of the week thing.

这样一来，就允许了不同的声音出现。

You know, it allowed a different voice to happen.

而且你知道，我们有过一些……

And you know, we had some...

我和克里斯聊过几次，主要是关于整体色调的。

Chris and I had few conversations just about general palette.

我觉得我们其实没有详细聊过这个话题，直到我们各自拍了一两部剧之后，才恍然大悟，哦，大概就是这些基本参数。

I don't think we actually had that conversation in detail till we had each had done a show or two and went, Oh, here are the kind of ballpark parameters.

当然，到最后，十五季之后，我为什么这么喜欢这部剧，除了人好——这总是第一位的，对——

And of course in the end after fifteen seasons why I loved working on this show so much aside from the people, which is always the first thing Yeah.

就是音乐上的那种丰富性。

Was the musical landscape.

它总是那么不一样。

It was always different.

我是说，那些吓人的东西倒是挺一致的。

I mean the boogeyman stuff was fairly consistent.

但风格从那种怪异的氛围，到下一周的全管弦乐，再到史酷比那种，还有斯佩德导演的那几集，有种昆汀·塔伦蒂诺的感觉，你懂的……

But everything from a rye kudury kind of vibe to a full orchestra the next week to, you know, Scooby Doo to one of Spades directed shows where I was a Quentin Tarantino esque kind of vibe and, you know...

这个我们

Which we will

大概十四年后才会讲到。

get to in about fourteen years.

对，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

那我们就从这个故事开始讲吧。

Well, bring us in to this story then.

这正好能引出这个具体的剧本。

That's a good segue into this specific script.

所以现在你拿到剧本了。

So here you are, you're handed the script.

你从哪个环节开始思考？

What part of the process do you start thinking about?

我的意思是，你显然还没看到拍摄的镜头。

I mean, obviously you haven't seen shot footage.

你在看文字的时候，是不是已经在构思声音了？

Are you already formulating a sound when you're looking at the printed word?

好吧，我来分享一下我的理念。只要有人请我，我总会先读剧本。

Well, I'll share with you what my philosophy has been and I will always read a script when I'm asked to do it.

但真正影响我的，不是读剧本时脑子里浮现的电影，而是看画面。

But what really informs me, more than the movie that I will make in my head when I'm reading a script is looking at an image.

看灯光，看演员的节奏，看场景的氛围、节奏，还有临时配乐。

Seeing the lighting, seeing the rhythm of the actors, seeing the vibe of the scene, the pace of the scene, the temp score.

如果有的话，看看那配乐是对是错。

If it's there, what how that might be correct or how that might be incorrect.

所以在《邪恶力量》整整十五年的播出期间，我可能只读了三四个剧本，因为其他的都是粗剪版，我会看粗剪版，因为我总是会看粗剪版。

And so in the whole fifteen year run of Supernatural, I maybe read three, maybe four scripts because the rest of them was a rough cut, watching a rough cut because you know, I always watch the rough cut.

我每一集粗剪都看，因为你知道，你得在进配音棚之前就对故事和氛围有个概念。

I watched every rough cut because you know, you have to walk into a spotting session having a sense of what the story is already and what the vibe is.

但没错，这么说有点啰嗦，我就是想说，在这个媒介里，我更倾向于看该看的、听该听的，即使没有临时配乐，光靠演员的节奏、灯光和故事底子就够了。

But yeah, that's a long winded way to say, I much prefer in this medium seeing what I need to see and hearing what I need to hear even if there's no temp score just based on the rhythm of the actors and the way it's lit and what the underpinning story is.

所以我不太确定。

So I don't know.

这样算回答你的问题了吗？

Did that answer your question?

百分之百。

A 100%.

好的，

Okay,

各位。

guys.

等一下。

Hold on.

我们马上回来。

We're coming right back.

大家好。

Hi, everybody.

我是罗伯·本尼迪克特。

It's Rob Benedict.

本期节目由Vinted赞助。

This episode is sponsored by Vinted.

你知道Vinted吗？

Do you know about Vinted?

好的。

Okay.

看看你的衣柜。

Take a look at your closet.

如果你跟我一样，那……

If you're like me, it's...

我的衣服太多了。

I've got too many clothes.

不。

No.

我的问题是我跟一个衣服多到小衣柜都装不下的人住在一起，所以我们一直在想办法精简衣柜，好腾出空间放别的东西。

My problem is I'm with someone who has too many clothes for a small closet, so we're always looking for ways to thin out our closet to make for room for other things.

有个应用让这件事变得特别简单，那就是Vinted。

And there's an app that makes that so easy to do, and that app is Vinted.

这是一个二手交易平台应用，让像你我这样的普通卖家轻松出售二手时尚单品，赚点外快。

It's a secondhand marketplace app that makes it easy for everyday sellers, people like you and me to sell pre loved fashion and earn some extra money.

所以也许你的衣柜不像我这么满，但你想赚点零花钱，或者你只是喜欢偶尔清理一下。

So maybe your closet's not full like mine, but you're looking to make a little extra money, or you just like to clean out every once in a while.

这就是Vinted很棒的原因，因为你可以重新利用你的衣服，顺便赚点小钱。

That's why Vintage is great because you can repurpose your clothing and make a little cash on the side.

Vinted用起来特别简单，卖衣服变得很轻松。

Vintage was just so easy that it made selling my clothes simple.

我选择Vinted是因为它不收任何销售费用，赚到的钱都归你自己。

I turned to Vinted because there are no selling fees, so you keep everything you earn.

所以这真是双赢。

And so it's win win.

你……

You...

我清理了衣柜，还赚了点外快，现在感觉好多了，因为我的衣柜……

I've been able to clean out my closet, make a little extra money, and I now feel better because I have a lot...

整洁多了，不再那么乱。

Much less cluttered closet.

这个应用可以免费下载。

The app is free to download.

在Vinted上架商品很快。

Listening items on Vinted is quick.

很简单。

It's simple.

而且一旦商品卖出，Vinted 会为你生成预付运费标签。

And once the item sells, Vinted creates the prepaid shipping label for you.

所以，这有什么理由不用呢？

So it's like, why wouldn't you?

那你准备好清理衣柜，顺便赚点外快了吗？

So are you ready to clean out your closet and make some extra money?

免费下载 Vinted 应用，开始上架吧。

Download the Vinted app for free and start listing.

没有卖家费用，你赚的每一分钱都归你。

With no seller fees, you keep every dollar you earn.

你有一条最爱的毯子，一杯刚倒好的饮料，还有一个冷案在流媒体队列里等着你。

You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a hole in your streaming queue.

你不仅仅是在看真实犯罪。

You're not just watching true crime.

你就在沙发上舒舒服服地破案。

You're running the investigation from the comfort of your couch.

欢迎收听《她看的谋杀案》播客，我们在这里回顾、剖析，甚至有点过度解读那些在热门流媒体平台上最精彩、最疯狂的真实犯罪纪录片。

Welcome to Murder She Watched, the podcast where we recap, dissect, and slightly overanalyze some of the best and craziest true crime documentaries on our favorite streamers.

是配偶干的吗？

Did the spouse do it?

为什么那个可疑的邻居七月份还戴着皮手套？

Why is the shady neighbor wearing leather gloves in July?

为什么这家伙会同意在这部纪录片里接受采访？

Why did this guy agree to be interviewed in this documentary?

我们问那些你常常对着电视大喊的棘手问题。

We ask the tough questions that you're often just screaming at your TV.

所以每周我们都会拆解那些让你彻夜不眠的剧情反转、误导线索和荒诞纪录片。

So every week, we break down the twists, red herrings, and absurd documentaries that have kept you up all night.

这就是高能剧情、舒适氛围和十足的沙发侦探范儿。

It's high drama, cozy vibes, and absolute couch detective energy.

拿好你的毯子，然后点个订阅。

Grab your throat blanket and hit subscribe.

在收听播客的地方搜索“Murder She Watched”，让我们一起破案吧。

Search murder she watched wherever you listen to podcasts, and let's solve this thing together.

嘿，大家好。

Hey, everybody.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

现在，我们回到正片。

And now back to the episode.

你刚才提到了一件事。

And you said something.

我们喜欢在聊天的时候顺便给听众科普一下。

So we like to educate our listeners while we're having these conversations.

用“临时配乐”这个词。

Use the term temp score.

对。

Yes.

临时配乐，给不是电影迷的人解释一下这是什么。

A temp score, explain to a non cinemaphile what that is.

基本上，这是在作曲家参与之前，有时甚至在作曲家被聘用之前。

Basically, it's before a composer gets involved and sometimes before a composer's hired.

这是导演和/或制片人把音乐放进节目或电影里，用来展示音乐方向可能是什么样。

It's music put into a show or a movie by the director and or producers to show what the direction might be musically.

有时候很准确，有时候不太准确。

Sometimes it's spot on, sometimes it's not accurate.

但不管怎样，你知道，它会展示出来，而且是为了试映观众或电视台等准备的，这样你就不会只是展示四十八分钟的沉默和对话。

But either way, you know, it will show and you know, it's done for either test audiences or the network or anything so that you're not just showing, you know, forty eight minutes of silence and dialogue.

你知道，有时候作曲家觉得他们以前不这么做，你知道，这是新出现的，我不知道，也许这更多是从九十年代开始的。

You know, sometimes composers think think they didn't used to do it, you know, that this is the advent of, I don't know, maybe this started happening more in the nineties.

在那之前，除了放一首歌，临时配乐做得不多。

Before that, other than having a song in, there was not a lot of temp stuff done.

在那之前可能也有一些。

There might have been some before that.

但后来这成了常态，有些作曲家运气不好。

But then it became a regular thing and some composers have the bad luck.

我是说，我们都经历过。

I mean, we've all been through it.

你知道，导演或制片人对临时配乐情有独钟。

You know, a director and or producer is having temp love.

这样一来，作曲家就没法在某个意想不到的领域发挥，可能那个领域本来会很精彩。

And so it just shuts down the possibility for the composer to stretch in some unforeseen area that might be wonderful

因为这就是我们爱上的那个声音，你懂吗？

Because this is this is the sound we've fallen in love with, you know?

我们乐队里管这个叫小样。

We we call it demo it is in the band.

就像你做了个小样，然后你会有点爱上这个小样，即使你需要重新录制它。

It was like, you make a demo and you kind of fall in love with the demo, but even though you need to rerecord it.

完全同意你的说法。

Right there with you.

非常抱歉。

So sorry.

我一会儿再回来问你跟克里斯。

I'm gonna circle back to you and Chris for a second.

你们俩是不是有一个共用的文件？

Is there, like, a common file that you both pull from?

好的。

Okay.

这是一个戏剧性或者不祥的场景。

This is a a dramatic or foreboding scene.

你们用的那些曲子，有没有哪首是共同制作或者共同创作的？

Were any of the pieces that you used co produced or co composed?

没有。

No.

我只能说，我不知道，大概有多少集？

Only I would say, I don't know, what were there?

可能有三四集是我们一起合作的，但音乐都是各自写的。

Maybe three or four episodes that we worked on together but each wrote our own music.

明白了。

Got it.

因为比如说，你知道，那部音乐剧。

Because like for instance, you know, the musical.

当然。

Of course.

粉丝创作。

Fan fiction.

那真是个有趣的项目。

Such a fun project.

你知道，我们各自……

You know, we each...

我写了几首歌。

I did a couple songs.

我记得克里斯在里面写了一首歌，我写了两首，然后我们一起写了配乐之类的。我们会一起坐下来看片子，分配任务，比如克里斯可能会说，哦，那部分我来。

I think Chris had one song in it, I had two and then we co wrote the underscore and things like that where we would, you know, we sat in a spotting session together and maybe as we were spotting, you know, Chris might say, Oh, I'll take that one in terms of dividing the show up.

我们在《Time After Time》那部剧里就是这么做的。

We did that on that, on I think Time After Time.

哦，还有《Scooby Natural》。

Oh, and Scooby Natural.

对。

Sure.

《Scooby Natural》。

Scooby Natural.

哇。

Wow.

那是……

It's...

你知道吗？

Know?

所以我们其实从来没有一起写过东西。

So we actually have never written together.

我们是一起做同一集的。

We've worked on the same episodes together.

而且，你知道，我不能替他说话，但我算是他的……

And, you know, I mean, I can't speak speak for him, but I'm in his...

我是克里斯的粉丝。

I'm in Chris's fan club.

哦，他……

Oh, he...

你绝对是他的粉丝，兄弟，而且是铁粉。

You're definitely in his fan club, buddy, in a big way.

有多少……

How much...

我知道你一开始是鲍勃·辛格的人，但鲍勃·辛格只导演了……

I know you you came into this with being Bob Singer's guy, but Bob Singer directed only...

只导演了大概50集，这已经很多了，但这部剧有300多集。

Only, you know, 50, which is a ton, but of a show that had 300 and something episodes.

所以你显然和其他导演合作过。

So you obviously worked with other directors.

你和很多其他导演合作过。

You worked with a lot of other directors.

其他导演的参与度有多高？还是说主要是剧集主管和你对接，鲍勃也和你对接？

How hands on are other directors, or is it really the showrunner dealing with you and Bob dealing with you?

这种关系是怎么运作的？

How does that relationship work?

嗯，这是个好问题。

Well, that that's a good question.

首先，迪克，当我看到你的名字出现在我要拍的剧集里时，我真的很高兴。

And first of all, I loved when I saw your name on a show I was gonna do, Dick.

我也是。

Likewise.

说实话，我觉得我们合作了三四次，每次都特别开心，而且各有特色。

Honestly, I think we did either three or four together and they were all a blast and unique.

我还记得那次空气吉他独奏

I still remember the air guitar solo

你表演的。

you had.

哥们，太棒了。

Dude, was great.

哥们，那真的特别好玩。

Dude, that was a lot of fun.

总的来说，在电影里，你几乎只跟导演打交道；而在电视剧里，更多时候是制片人或制作团队参与剪辑会议。

I would say as a generic statement that in movies you're dealing almost exclusively with the director and in television it more often falls into the producers or production team that is in the spotting session.

在座的各位除外，因为你来过几次剪辑会议，我特别喜欢。

Present company excluded because you showed up to a couple of your spots, which I loved.

但我不太确定。

But I'm not sure.

我觉得我可能……

I think I got...

我觉得那些人让我进去了。

I think those guys let me in.

第一，因为我想去那里。

A, because I wanted to be there.

但第二，因为我也算是自己人。

But B, because I was in the family, so to speak.

确实。

Absolutely.

比如，也许不是每个来访的导演都有这个机会。

Like maybe, you know, maybe there's not an opportunity afforded every visiting director.

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

你可能是对的。

You might be right.

你可能是对的，因为那正是我想说的。在电视行业有个普遍规律，就是在“对点会议”上确定音乐放在哪里、音乐的风格、从哪里开始、在哪里结束，这些统称为“配乐片段”。

You might be right because that's what I was trying to say as it's sort of a general rule in television, the relationship at the spotting session where it is decided where music goes, the style of the music, what's the actual start, what's the out, all these things called cues.

你知道吗，一段音乐，我来跟我们的听众解释一下。

You know, a piece of music, I'll talk to our audience here.

在电视剧或电影里，一段音乐，除了歌曲之外——歌曲就是歌曲。

A piece of music in a TV show or in a movie other than a song, a song is a song.

歌曲是有歌词、旋律，还有乐队、吉他或钢琴伴奏的那种。

A sung song with lyrics and a melody and a band or a guitar or piano, whatever it is.

但如果有歌手演唱，有歌词和音乐伴奏，那就是歌曲。

But if there's a singer on it with a lyric and a musical accompaniment, that's a song.

但在电影或电视剧里，纯器乐的音乐片段叫做“cue”，就是c-u-e。

But an instrumental piece of music in a movie or TV show is called a cue, c u e.

所以在电视行业，这种关系更多是制片人和作曲家之间的，而不是导演和作曲家之间的。

So that relationship in television tends to be producers and the composer, much more so than the director and the composer.

当然也有例外。

And there are exceptions to that too.

我们具体在聊的是《666号公路》那一集。

We specifically are talking about an episode called Route 666.

或者叫《Route 666》，看你来自哪个地区。

Or Route 666, depending on what part of the country you're from.

格鲁斯卡，格鲁斯卡。

Gruska Gruska.

对。

Yes.

这是个座右铭。

It's a motto.

这是个编出来的座右铭。

It's a made up of motto.

那你记得你第一次看到这个时的印象吗？

So do you remember your first impression of this?

这个……

This...

它非常……

It's a very...

它真的是一个很独特的怪物周播剧集。

It's a unique monster of the week episode, really.

杀人汽车。

Killer car.

老兄。

Dude.

确实。

It was.

听我说。

Listen.

它立刻让我想起，不知道你们还记不记得斯皮尔伯格的第一部电影《决斗》。

It evoked immediately because I don't know if you guys remember Steven Spielberg's first movie, Duel.

当然。

Sure.

《决斗》，是的。

Duel, yeah.

《决斗》。

Duel.

非常像《决斗》。

It's very duel.

那部电影又酷又吓人，简直了，什么？

It was incredibly cool and incredibly scary with like, What?

真的吗？

Seriously?

我从来没见过司机，但我吓坏了。

I never see the driver and I'm terrified.

吓坏了。

Terrified.

所以它唤起了那种感觉。

So it evoked that.

但你知道，有一件事……

But you know, the thing that...

有两件事让我印象深刻。

Two things struck me.

我之所以记得，是因为我昨天扫了一眼。

And the only reason I remembered is because I scanned it yesterday.

大概过了一遍，然后就想，哦对，那个。

Sort of went through it and went, Oh yeah, that.

还有，哦对，那个。

And Oh yeah, that.

有两件事让我印象深刻。

Two things struck me.

一个是尤金妮和布拉德的剧本里的社会意识。

One was the social consciousness of Eugenie and Brad's script.

我觉得处理种族和种族主义问题挺酷的，是的。

I just thought it was cool to just deal with the, you know, the race and racist Yes.

那个剧本背后的历史根源。

Historical nature of the underpinnings of that script.

我觉得这样做既负责任又很酷。

And I just thought that's kind of responsible and cool.

第二件让我想到的事是，这卡车一响，我可能就得给配乐了。

The second thing that occurred to me was, oh, I'll probably be scoring sometimes when this truck is on.

这是最终比分。

Here's the final score.

你知道，不是音乐配乐，而是卡车和音乐之间的竞争比分。

You know, not the musical score, but the score in the competition of truck versus music.

卡车一分，音乐零分。

Truck one, music nothing.

因为每次卡车一响，我都不知道他们会放多大声。

Because every time that truck was on and I was, you know, I didn't know how loud they would play it.

但是，你知道，我当时在写很细致的东西。

But, you know, I was writing detailed stuff.

你其实听不太清楚。

You don't really hear it.

你知道，卡车一号。

You know, truck one.

但是，你知道，这就是没办法的事。

But, you know, that's the nature of the beast.

真的是那个野兽的本性。

Literally the nature of that beast.

现在不只是有一辆无人驾驶的卡车，像《决斗》里那样，还有所有……

Now not only was there a truck with no driver, duel esque in the show, there's all...

还有《邪恶力量》里第一个，而且我得说真的很长的……

Also Supernatural's first and might I say really lengthy

性感的。

Sexy.

亲热戏份。

Lovemaking sequence.

嗯，罗伯管那叫床戏。

Well, Rob calls it a sex scene.

我管那叫亲热戏份。

I call it a lovemaking sequence.

我很好奇，这对这部剧来说是头一回。

And I'm curious, that was new to this show.

你是怎么处理的？

How did you approach that?

这种处理方式对你……

And how does that approach your...

我是说，那种戏份需要音乐上不同的处理方式。

I mean, that kind of scene requires a different handling of the music.

你是怎么处理的？

How did you approach

怎么处理的？

it?

我的意思是，我首先的处理方式就是，你知道，Jensen Ackles是地球上最帅的男人，所以我没让我老婆看那场戏。

Mean, the first way I approach it, because, you know, Jensen Ackles is the handsomest man on on the planet is I didn't let my wife watch it.

这是

That's the

第一次。

first time.

不是。

No.

说实话，我觉得那场亲热戏里我没有配乐。

Honestly, I don't think that I had score in that lovemaking scene.

我记得那里有一首歌。

I think there was a song there.

具体记不清了，但是

I don't remember exactly, but

你知道吗？

I You know what?

我觉得那里面确实有首歌。

I think there is a song in that.

一首歌

A song

在那里面。

in that.

所以我的回答就是，我不需要面对那个问题。

So that's that's my answer to that is that I didn't have to contend with that.

所以Jay，你可能知道，也可能不知道。

So Jay, now you may be aware of this, you may not.

但遗憾的是，Rob和我大部分早期的《邪恶力量》都没看过，所以我们很多都是第一次看，而且是在Netflix上看的。

But the the bummer is Rob and I, for the most part, haven't seen a lot of early Supernatural, so we're watching a lot of this for the first time, and we're watching it on Netflix.

啊。

Ah.

也就是说我们听不到原版歌曲了。

Which means we're not getting the original songs.

哦，对。

Oh, yes.

所以我还不知道那首歌是什么。

So I don't know what song I don't know yet.

爱情戏。

Love scene.

可能在我们笔记里。

It might be in our notes.

我记得当时觉得爱情戏里的那首歌不怎么样。

I remember thinking that the song that was in the love scene wasn't necessarily all that awesome.

哦，原版播出时用了詹姆斯帮、坏公司和盲目的命运这些乐队的很棒的音乐。

Oh, it it said the original broadcast featured great music from James Gang, Bad Company, and Blind Fates.

我敢打赌那场戏里肯定有一首超酷的歌，只是不确定。

I guarantee you there was a badass song in that scene that wasn't sure

我看的时候。

when I watched it.

在Netflix版本里听不到这些。

You don't hear that on the Netflix versions.

你知道吗，这真的很有意思。

You know, that's so interesting.

我觉得，鲍勃或者菲尔肯定知道，但肯定是有合同上的问题。

And I think, you know, either Bob or Phil would certainly know, but for sure there was a contractual thing about

嗯，有点像我们跟他们谈过这个。

Well, something like we got into them.

对，我们很早就跟他们谈过这个。

Yeah, we got into that with them early on.

我想，可能是吉或者谁告诉我们，他们把所有东西都清好了，但所谓的“新媒体”除外。

I think gee, or somebody told us it was they cleared everything for everything, but quote unquote new media.

就像，他们当时没考虑到流媒体这些。

Like, they weren't thinking in terms of Exactly.

流媒体。

Streaming.

那时候流媒体还不存在，根本没那么回事。

There streaming didn't get was not really such thing then.

我的意思是，你知道，Netflix那时候，哦，我刚收到这张DVD，给那些年轻人解释一下。

I mean, you know, Netflix was, oh, I just got this DVD delivered for the youngsters out there.

Netflix以前就是寄DVD的。

That's what Netflix used to be, was a DVD delivered.

DVD。

DVD.

当Rob说要和某人Netflix and chill的时候，通常意思就是拿张DVD，和某人一起放松一下。

When when Rob was gonna Netflix and chill with somebody, it usually meant get a DVD and relax with somebody.

没错。

Heck yeah.

你懂吧？

You know?

原来她给我带来爱，是Brings那首歌？

It turns out it's she brings me love by Brings?

抱歉。

Sorry.

给我带来爱。

Brings me love.

她

She

是Bad Company的《Brings Me Love》。

brings me love by Bad Company.

有意思。

Interesting.

做爱。

The Lovemaking.

天哪。

God.

这不太好。

It's not good.

天哪，我们的制作人小哥们确实找到了一些很酷的东西。

Boy, our producer boys definitely found some cool

是吗？

They did?

我能说“酷”吗？哦，当然可以。

Am I allowed to say cool Oh, yeah.

你想说什么都行。

You can say whatever.

好的。

Okay.

兄弟，你想说什么都行。

You can say whatever, man.

完全自由发挥。

It's a free for all.

那么，关于第一季《每周怪物》的剧集，你有没有尝试给不同的灵魂、不同的鬼魂设定不同的主题？

Anyway, so for the Monster of the Week's episodes in this first season, did you try to give different spirits, different ghosts, themes?

这个问题问得很好，因为事实是，我记得埃里克，还有埃里克和鲍勃的一些组合，他们暗示说，尤其是在第一季，每一集的身份就像一部独立的电影。

It's a great question also because the truth is, is that and I remember Eric and some combination of Eric and Bob inferring that certainly for that first season that every episode identity was a movie unto itself.

所以没有特别重复的东西。

So there was no particular repeating.

我忘了是哪一个，我写了一个主题，后来被粉丝们称为“兄弟家庭主题”。

I forget which there was a theme that I wrote that was came to be known by the fans as, you know, the sort of the the brothers family theme.

那个主题后来成了粉丝的最爱，我很喜欢。

That sort of became a fan favorite, which I loved.

但那是后来的事？

But that was later?

我确实写了那个。

And I did that.

我忘了是不是...

I forget if it...

可能是最后一集……

It might have been the last episode is...

《天鹅之歌》是什么时候播出的？

When was Swan Song?

《天鹅之歌》是第五季的结局。

Swan Song is the end of season five.

第五季。

Five.

天哪。

Oh, my God.

所以直到第五季结束，基本上没有重复的。

So until the end of season five, there were basically no repeats.

说实话，这几乎是整部剧的理念。

Honestly, that was almost the philosophy in the whole show.

但不可避免的是，当你有幸能拍这么长时间，你知道，你得多次重新发明轮子。

But inevitably, when you get lucky to have a run that long, you know, you have to reinvent the wheel several times.

所以不可避免地会有所不同，即使不是整个主题，我之前用过的一些小波拉罗伊德色彩瞬间，也变成了某种新顶层内容的主体，这些新内容会应用到那个东西上。

And so it's inevitably different, if not the entire theme, little Polaroid color moments that I had used before became, let's say, the body of something with a new top layer written that would apply to the thing.

这就是在电视配乐界的生存之道，你只有一周时间来写配乐，你知道的。

And that's just survival in a television scoring world where you have a week to write a score, you know.

前几季，哦不。

The first few seasons, oh no.

那些都是电影。

These were all movies.

哇。

Wow.

显然，这让它很令人兴奋。

Obviously, that makes it exciting.

但这会不会让人压力很大？

But does it make it stressful?

因为这是否可行？

Because is it achievable?

你懂吧？

You know?

确实压力很大。

It's certainly stressful.

我在电视配乐中学到的第一件事，就是接受现实，毕竟我原本是写歌出身的。

And one of the first things I learned in television scoring was making peace with not like I came from a songwriting background.

我职业生涯的前半段，基本上都是在写歌。

I mean, that's the whole first half of my career writing life was as a songwriter.

而且，我当时的想法是，歌没写完就不算完。

And, you know, my general vibe on that was song wasn't finished till it was finished.

你知道，没有时间限制，歌什么时候写完都行。

You know, what there was no clock ticking on when the song was finished.

我觉得满意了才算完成，你明白吗？

It was finished when I dug it, you know?

所以，有时候这确实有点难以接受，但这就是现实。真正考验功力的时候，就是当你要在一周内写出二十五到三十分钟的配乐时。

And so a little bit of the well, maybe sometimes it's a bitter pill, but it's really just a reality and it's when craft comes in is when you have a week to write a twenty five or thirty minute score.

哇。

Wow.

你得挑重点，其他有些东西就只能赶紧做完。

You sort of pick your moments and some of the other things have to be, I just have to get it done.

这并不是说你不希望每一样都做到最好。

That's not to say that you hope for the best quality in each one.

但事实是，有些东西你难免会在一个星期、一年甚至十年后回头看，然后想，天哪。

But the truth is that some things inevitably you look back at them a week or a year or a decade later and go, Oh, man.

要是当时能再多一天就好了。

If I'd only had another day for that.

而且……

And that's...

我敢肯定。

I'm sure.

那

That

这可能也适用于歌曲。

might even apply to songs too.

在某种程度上是的。

To a certain extent.

但是，这……

But it's it's...

我简直无法想象。创作歌曲的时间窗口很紧，你知道吗，真的，作为一个词曲作者。

I I can't even imagine having It's a tight window, you know, really, a songwriter.

你会想，好吧。

You're going, All right.

你知道，你能做的也就那么多。

You know, you can only do so much.

那么多。

So much.

你知道吗？

And you know what?

就像我们所有人一样，你只是不断锻炼这项能力。

Like all of us, you just develop the muscle.

你只是不断锻炼这项能力。

You just develop the muscle.

而且，你知道，通过反复练习，就像任何事情一样，你希望自己能越做越好。

And, you know, with repetition, like anything, you know, you hopefully get better at it.

很多看这部剧的人不知道，因为是在温哥华拍摄的，前期制作，也就是剧本创作，和后期制作都在洛杉矶完成，而我们是在温哥华拍摄的。

A lot of people who watch the show don't realize that since it was shot in Vancouver, the preproduction, that is the the writing of the show, and the postproduction is all done in LA, And we shoot it in Vancouver.

那你和贾里德、詹森有互动吗？

So did you have any interaction with Jared and Jensen?

菲尔在第三季或第四季，或者差不多那时候，可能是第五季，他让我过去。

Phil asked me in season three or four or somewhere in there, maybe season five, he asked me to come up.

菲尔邀请了我，你知道，因为我和克里斯轮流，我可以在不写剧本的那周去。

Phil invited So, me you know, I because I alternated with Chris, I was able to do that on a week where I wasn't writing.

所以我去了，见了他们，我的第一印象是，天哪，他们真高。

And so I went up and met those guys and my first impression was, Jesus, they're tall.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

That's right.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你知道吗？

You know?

但他们人特别好。

But just couldn't have been sweeter.

两个人都很棒。

Both great.

那主要是那一次。

And then that was the main time.

但我想有一次在试映会上，大概是第十季，那部音乐剧，打了个招呼。

But I think one time at the screening for, I guess, season ten, the musical, A Little Quick Hello.

但我不太确定他们能不能在两个人里一眼认出我。

But I'm not so sure that they could pick me out of a crowd of two visually.

这太有意思了，因为你知道，你职业生涯里大部分时间都在看着他们，一边给他们配乐。

It's so funny because, you know, you spent so much of your career looking at them as you're scoring.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

但你知道，我很高兴地说，在Jensen的祝福下，我上周接到电话去参与《Winchesters》的工作。

But, you know, I'm I'm happy to say that with, I think, Jensen's blessing, I got the call last week to work on Winchesters.

哦，那太棒了。

Oh, that's fantastic.

你听到了。

You heard it.

你在这里听到了。

You heard it here.

我们这可是独家新闻啊，兄弟。

We're breaking news, buddy.

我们这可是独家新闻。

We're breaking news.

我明白了。

I got it.

我们没断线。

We're not disconnected.

完全没错。

Totally.

太棒了，老兄。

That's awesome, dude.

恭喜你。

Congratulations.

听我说，真的，

That's Listen, really

我是说，你知道罗比·汤普森吗？

I mean, know, Robbie Thompson?

是的，兄弟。

Yeah, man.

天哪。

Shit.

他们组建了一支一流的团队，太棒了。

It's a class A team they got assembled Awesome.

全明星阵容。

All star team.

我觉得我也一直在想这个。

I think I've been thinking about that too.

如果你是那些为约翰或玛丽·温彻斯特试镜的年轻演员之一，兄弟，你肯定会紧张。

If you're like one of the young actors reading for John or Mary Winchester, man, you gotta be nervous.

这可是个大活儿。

Like, it's a big gig.

你知道，从表演和职业发展的角度来看，那些年轻演员出演这些角色的潜在好处是巨大的。

You know, the potential upside is enormous from an acting standpoint, career standpoint for the young folks who we cast in those roles.

没错。

Exactly.

这可是件大事。

It's a big deal.

哇。

Wow.

确实。

Exactly.

太好了，兄弟。

That's great, man.

真让人兴奋。

That's exciting.

是啊，恭喜恭喜。

Yeah, congratulations.

对，真的。

That's Yeah, really

就是好玩。

it's just fun.

你知道，你会觉得跑了那么久，应该差不多了，可以收工了。

You know, you think that after a long run like that, it's like, Okay, I'm done with that.

但是，只要能待在那个环境里，什么都行。而且我很喜欢罗比，因为我们一起写了几首歌，真的写了几首完整的歌。

But man, anything to be in that environment, you know, and I loved Robbie because we wrote a couple tunes, know, a couple of actual songs.

那是他人生中第一次写歌。

They were his first songs ever

——那是他人生中的第一次。

-That's in his life.

太棒了。

Amazing.

对，罗比·汤普森，我们后面在系列里会聊到他……

Yeah, Robbie Thompson, who we'll talk about later in the series...

威尔……

Will....

但他确实写了一些《邪恶力量》里最受欢迎、最经典的剧集。

But wrote some of really some of the most beloved episodes of Supernatural.

那些都是非常棒的。

Are great ones.

我同意。

I would agree.

你还记得在66号公路上其他重要的时刻吗？

Do you remember any other big moments in Route 66?

你当时想追求的那些重要时刻？

Big moments that you were going for?

在我快速回顾的时候，唯一记得的是……

The only thing that in my little scan, when...

我不记得任何角色的名字之类的，但那位母亲……

And I don't remember any characters' names or anything, but when the mother who...

当她开始一段相当长的独白时……

When she goes into a fairly long speech...

对，那种……

Right, that sort of...

关于……

About...

讲述什么

Story of what

发生了什么事。

all happened.

是的，其实只是我们……的一个小片段。

Yeah, and just really a little snippet of our...

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

种族主义历史，你知道，写那段内容时情绪很激动，我想，这段对话从头到尾都是对话，所以我选择几乎只用弦乐来配，因为这样就不会有打击乐声，比如钢琴或吉他，带来的那种生硬感。

Racist history, you know, that was an emotional thing to write and I thought, you know, it's such wall to wall dialogue that I chose to do it pretty much just with string writing because then there's no jagged edge to that in terms of a percussive sound, piano or guitar.

而且，你知道，我就是想让它有圣歌的感觉。

And, you know, I just wanted it to be hymnal.

有点像《奇异恩典》那种风格。

-And kind of like Amazing Grace ish.

哦，对。

-Oh, yeah.

在它下面。

-Under it.

所以那就是，我记得那个。

And so that was that was I remember that.

然后……

And then...

这很有意思，因为，杰伊，在故事里，教堂被烧是那个故事的一个大基石。

Which is interesting because, Jay, in the story, the burning of the church is a big cornerstone of that story.

所以当你谈到圣歌和《奇异恩典》，以及那首歌背后的那种想法时，我的意思是，那和故事完全一致。

So when you talk about hymnal and Amazing Grace and sort of that idea behind the song, I mean, that's right in line with the story.

这是不是部分激发了你朝那个方向走的灵感，关于……

Is that part of what inspired you to go that direction in terms of...

是的……

It was....

那个主题？

That theme?

绝对是。

Absolutely.

绝对是。

Absolutely.

而且同时又很微妙。

And and yet subtle.

我是说，我觉得你做的神奇之处就在于，而且有些……

I mean, that's that's what I think is so magical about what you do and and some...

有时候被低估的是，你在情感之下营造氛围。

Sometimes underappreciated is you're you're creating the vibe underneath the emotion.