S4E9：苹果偶尔也能解决问题（WWDC25特别篇）

欢迎收听《Swift Over Coffee》第四季第九集。我是Mikaela Karan。

Welcome to season four episode nine of Swift Over Coffee. I'm Mikaela Karan.

我是Paul Hudson。欢迎边吃晚饭边收听。是的，我们这次直播是在WWDC25周进行的。没错。

And I'm Paul Hudson. Welcome over dinner. Yeah. We are actually live during dub dub dc twenty five week. Yes.

对，就在第二天，对吧？

Yeah. The day after. Right?

没错。

Absolutely.

那我们的新闻是关于什么的？

So our news is about?

WWE。

WWE.

WWC？DC？我知道，对吧？还有一个开放蝙蝠相关的内容

WWC. DC? I know. Right? And open bat's about

也是关于WWDC的。

Also WWDC.

这期全是关于WWDC的。但首先，比WWDC更重要的是，你觉得那已经很重要了，你觉得那是很了不起的成就。但是，但是，有一个特别的人，一个我非常关心、此刻也与我紧密相连的人，发布了一款重要的应用。

It's all about dub dub. But first, even bigger than dub dub, you think that was important. You think it's very impressive glass. But but but someone special, someone very close to my heart and very close to all of me right now, shipped an important app.

是我发布的。它终于完全实现了。

I did. It finally it has finally come to full fruition.

我已经订阅了。你从我这赚了15英镑。是的。哦，对。结果如此。

I subscribed already. You made £15 from me. Yeah. Oh, yes. Turns out.

价格昂贵。太棒了。一些功能。来吧。

It's expensive. Amazing. Some features. Come on.

打扰一下。我们参加了名为Dub Dub的活动，度过了美好的一天。

Excuse me. We've been at this event called Dub Dub for the best day.

是的。突然测试一下。是的。所以一开始我就说过，把你们的社交媒体账号设置正确，因为之后无法更改。我喜欢这样。

Yeah. Pop quiz. Yeah. So I've I've I've I said at the beginning, get your social handles correct because you can't change them. It's like I like that.

感觉上，这并不是一个真正的功能。但这样也很好。保持原样吧。我非常喜欢这一点。此外，本周我在彭博科技新闻上接受了一次采访。

It's like, I'll just not really a feature. It's fine as it is. Leave it alone. I like that very much. And also this week, I had an interview on Bloomberg Technology News.

他们显然认为和Craig聊天太无聊了。让我们问问当时穿红色衣服的某个家伙吧。而我却在直播中完成了两件重要的事情。其中之一就是称呼Craig Federighi为“银狐”。对此我很满意。

They clearly thought, you know, speaking to Craig and it was too boring. Let's ask some schmuck in the red color at the time. And I managed to do two important things live on air. One was call Craig Federighi the silver fox. I was quite pleased with that.

其次，我实际上从朋友那里得到了很多推广。比如那个新的Fauna游戏，还有Slopes、Halide之类的。我当时就想，我觉得我可以借这个机会让朋友们多买点东西之类的。你知道吗？啊，我刚才肯定说成水果了，是吧？

And secondly, I'm actually getting big promos from my friends. So I was like, that new Art of Fauna game, and there's slopes, there's halide. So I was, know, I thought I'd use my chance around making sales with friends and stuff. You know? Ah, I just said fruit for sure, am I really?

该死。他下线了。那时候还没发布，对吧？周一早上？

Damn it. He's out. It wasn't out then, was it? Monday morning?

是的，已经发布了。真该死。因为我原本打算预先订购，并且在周一发布。但后来我在Infinite Loop（无限环路）的时候，才知道那和Apple Park（苹果园区）不是一个地方，之前不知道这点。了解之后，大家都跟我说，你应该现在就做。就在这个时候，当我一点时间都没有，正坐在Infinite Loop用手机的Wi-Fi上网的时候。

Yes, it was. Damn it. Because I originally was going to do the preorder and have it drop on Monday. But then when I was at Infinite Loop, which I learned is a different place than Apple Park, did not know this, But learned that, and also everyone was like, you should just do it now. Like, now when I have no time and I'm sitting at Infinite Loop on Wi Fi off of my phone.

是的。这很自然地引出了我们的新闻，当然都是关于Dub Dub的内容。显然这是你第一次参加WWDC，你怎么看？

Yeah. And that's a brilliant segue into our news, which is all dub dub this, obviously. It was your first WWDC, and what do you think?

太棒了。真的只是观看主题演讲，而且每个人都在那里，感觉有点不一样，因为以前我参加过主题演讲，在iOS开发快乐时光和WWDC社区观看派对上，其实更像是在一个昏暗的房间里观看，因为我们用投影仪的时候必须把灯都关掉。所以那种感觉更像电影院。现在则不同了，可以和大家一起晒着太阳观看，我可以享受一下晒伤的感觉（虽然实际上并没有晒伤），但至少能感受到阳光的温暖。

It was amazing. To really just watch the keynote though with, like, everybody being there, it was kind of different because previously, I've done the keynote, at the iOS dev happy hour and dub dub community watch party, which is really just more of it's in a dark room and you're watching it because, you know, it's got a projector we have to, like, turn all the lights down. So it's movie theater sort of style. So then now to, like, bake in the sun with everyone else, I get to enjoy the sunburn, which actually I didn't really get that sunburn, but I get to enjoy the sun.

他们在苹果园区旁边有一个很大的遮阳棚。Cafe Max有非常非常大的遮阳棚。但他们却把登记台放在外面完全暴晒的地方。我觉得他们挺狡猾的，还设置了实验室。

They have a big sunshade out next to Apple Park. The Cafe Max has a huge, huge sunshade. But then they put the down roller stations outside in the full sun. I think and think I'm pretty sure they're quite sneaky too. They have labs as well.

就像，你知道的，Safari实验室、Metal实验室、Azikit实验室。我想而且我很确定他们是故意这么做的。他们把热门的实验室放在外面的阳光下，基本上就是想让大家不要在那里逗留太久。他们希望人们进来室内，远离阳光。就是这样运作的。所以安全方面，这些热门服务总是放在室外。

It's like, you know what labs for Safari, labs for metal labs for Azikit. I think they put the popular ones out in the sun, trying to dissuade folks from hanging around there too much, basically. They wanna come inside and get away from the sun. That's how it works. So safety wise, always outside.

狡猾，狡猾，闻所未闻的策略。

Sneaky, sneaky unheard of tactics.

这就限制了你不能一直在那里站着，所以有点像是他们巧妙地利用阳光来告诉你赶紧离开。

It's limit it makes it so then you are not standing there forever, so it's kinda like they subtly are telling you to go away with using the sun though to do that. To

是的。而且我觉得现场气氛相当不错，大家看起来都很开心。

do that. Yeah. And the buzz I think was pretty good. People seem quite happy.

看起来确实是这样。我真的喜欢这种感觉，能够和其他人一起在现场，无论你有没有门票。

It seems like it. I really liked it's just also so fun to like actually be there with other people too whether you have a ticket or not.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以你可以听到人群对某些内容的反应。比如在主题演讲或者可能是在之后的活动快结束时，他们说，我们没有时间讨论所有内容了，接下来我们会快速带过一些东西。其中有一项他们很快略过的功能是终端有了不同的颜色方案，当时所有人都发出了一点惊叹声，感觉就像是在说，我们还想仔细看看呢。

So like get the crowd reactions about like certain things. So like it was funny at the very end of, I wanna say the keynote or maybe it was the so too. They were like, okay, we don't have time to talk to about everything. So let's go through this really quickly. One of the things they went through quick quickly was terminal has different colors, and everybody got a little, oh, and it's just like, we wanted to see that.

但是

But

是的。所以我认为人们真的很期待看到一些重大的人工智能推动。虽然没有真正发生重大突破，但我认为还是有一些进步的。比如说，本地设备模型就很不错。Xcode的情况也很不错，至少是一个进步。

Yeah. So I think that people really wanted to see some massive AI push. Didn't really happen, a big AI push, but there's an AI step forward or two, I think. You know, the on device models are very nice. The Xcode situation is very nice, but it's a step forward at least.

这非常不错。而且显然，苹果公司在Liquid Glass和统一版本号方面做得很大。

That's quite nice. And and, obviously, Apple, big on the Liquid Glass, on the unified version numbers.

是的。我们之前预测或传闻中的一件事确实成真了，这是我们上一次讨论过的，现在我们不用告诉别人这是剧透了。

Yes. So one of the predictions of rumors that we had did come true then that we talked about last time, so now we don't have to tell people it's a spoiler.

是的。这意味着你可以告诉别人你从iOS 15开始就一直在做iOS开发了，我想那是你的第一个版本吧，可能是iOS 16。

Yeah. It's true. And it means you can say you've been doing iOS since iOS 15, I think it was, your first 16 maybe.

大概是那样。

Something like that.

是啊。听起来已经过了很久了。

Yeah. It sounds like a long time now.

的确如此。我可以显得更有经验一些。

It does. I I can sound more experienced.

哦，我26岁的时候就已经这样了。哦，当我还是个小女孩的时候，就已经16岁了。是的。但线下实验室一直都很受欢迎，这次也不例外。

Oh, I was 26. Oh, when I was a wee slip of a girl, it was already I was 16. Yeah. But the in person labs were popular, which they always are. Yes.

我确实会告诉大家一定要去参加，因为那里有SwiftUI团队、MetalKit团队等等。去跟他们聊聊，带上你的代码，带上尽可能简单的代码以及你的问题和反馈编号。基本上就是让他们帮你解决问题。

I do tell folks, go along to them because there's SwiftUI teams there, the MetalKit team there, da da da. Talk to them. Bring your code. Bring the simplest code you can and your questions and your feedback numbers. Get getting on the case, basically.

是的。我当时在积极寻找某个人，因为我尝试了三次才成功找到人咨询关于App Clips的问题。当我在发布fruitful应用时添加了一个App Clip功能，当你与没有安装该应用的人分享卡片时，它会在App Clip中打开，这是最佳的体验方式。但在我这个应用上，却总是显示App Clip不可用。

Yes. I was hunting down somebody in that aggressive action because it took like three tries. I was trying to hunt down somebody about app clips because when I released fruitful, I add an app clip. So when you share your card with somebody who doesn't have the app, it opens in an app clip, which is the best like experience for it to happen. Except on my app, it would just show app clip not available.

所以我当时试图积极地向他们展示如何操作，并告诉他们，这个就是错误，它看起来是这样的。但找了三次才找到合适的人，而且我仍然没有找到正确的人。所以现在还是没解决。

So then I was trying to like actively show them how to do that and then be like, this is the bug. This is what it looks like. But it took like three tries to find the right person and I still did not find the right person. So it still doesn't work.

坦率地说，我现在想要根据我的描述获得退款。AppClips 的体验真的很关键。此外，除了线下实验室，他们还有小组实验课。这是新的。

So now I want a refund over my description, quite frankly. That's really important beach at AppClips, you know. But as well as the in person lab, they have group labs. That's new.

是的，但我还没参加过小组实验课。我的安排在明天。

That is. I have not gone to a group lab yet. Mine are, like, tomorrow.

嗯，我想它们应该也是明天。也许吧。

Well, I think they are tomorrow. Maybe Are

所有实验课都在明天吗？

all of them tomorrow?

让我快速看一下周围的情况。看看谁在这里。我觉得不在这里。今天有一个。

Let me just look around quickly. See who's here. I don't think Okay. So the person looking for isn't here. There was one today.

不过没参加那个 SIFF 的活动。是的，那个就在今天。但是 CTY 和 Apple Intelligence Day 应该是在明天，可能吧？

Didn't go through it, the SIFF one. Yeah. That was that was today. But CTY and Apple Intelligence Day is tomorrow, maybe?

我知道 Watchfest 也是明天，还有无障碍相关的活动，我想也是明天。

I know Watchfest is also tomorrow, and accessibility, I think, too.

对。所以今天早上也有很多活动。这些活动确实在进行，而且形式很好。这是一个不错的主意，把一群人聚集在一起，虽然有点遗憾只能通过 Webex 进行，然后你可以向两三个苹果公司的员工提出你的问题，以小组的形式得到解答。因为你可以听到别人的问题和答案，而这些问题你甚至自己都没有想到过，这确实是个好主意，值得思考。

Right. So there's a whole bunch of ones this morning as well. So they are happening, and they're very good. Well, a good idea. Get a bunch of folks on, sadly, Webex, bang your questions away at two or three Apple folks and get answers as group, because you can learn answers to a question, also answer to other folks' questions you haven't even considered, which is a good idea, think.

是的。但我听说小组实验课是不会录像的。

Yes. But the group labs are not recorded, I believe, is what I heard.

是的，有道理。还有社区活动，很多呢。

Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah. And community events. Lots of them.

太多了。

So many.

太多了。这很棒。事实上，就在今晚，还有一些活动，对吧？

So many. It's great. In fact, just tonight, there's a few. Right?

就在我们说话的同时，城里正在发生很多事情。

As we're talking, multiple things are happening around town.

现在。我知道。所以苹果的惊喜，让我们向你展示一下今晚在史蒂夫·乔布斯数据举行的F系列预告片活动。有格鲁伯秀，也是今晚的，我必须说一下。还有一件事。

Right now. I know. So Apple's surprise, let's show you the f one spoiler sneak preview things happening tonight at Steve Jobs Data. There's the Gruber show, which is tonight, I must say. There's one more one more thing.

有

There's

爱荷华州的斯蒂芬欢乐时光。

Iowa's Steph happy hour.

今晚，和Swift一起，还有今晚的Dubs Gothers活动。

Tonight, be with Swift tonight, and the Dubs Gothers tonight.

我想我们已经列全了。

I think we got them all.

是啊，我知道。那只不过是一个晚上而已。真的是太丰富了

Yeah. I know. That's just one evening. It's absolutely

一天晚上，所有活动同时进行。所以实际上你需要有选择地参加，感谢大家仍然在这里。但你得在众多活动中做出选择。不过，嘿，我要说的是，如果你现在在这里参加iOS开发者的欢乐时光，它会比其他所有活动都持续得更久。是的。这是一年只有一次的机会，快过来吧。

One evening and all at the same time. So you actually, like, selectively have to pick and thank you all for still being here. But you have to pick in the thin but, hey, I'm gonna say if you are here, iOS dev happy hour, it'll still be open past all the others. Yeah. It only happens once a year, so stop Yeah.

我认为现在整整一周都有很多精彩的活动。对吧？周六有第一个活动开始，一直持续到周四，因为Matt Heaney要组织一个咖啡馆巡游。没错。

And I think there's now a full week of tough stuff. Right? Saturday, there's very first event happening. Through to at least Thursday because Matt Heaney is running a coffee crawl. Yes.

从一家咖啡馆到另一家咖啡馆，在喝咖啡的同时写代码、交流、交朋友等等。这是一个绝妙的主意。

So go from coffee base to coffee base to coffee base with code and work along the way and chat and make friends and stuff. A brilliant idea.

是的，我很喜欢这个活动，也很期待。我觉得在整个活动期间，我们安排了不同的聚会，每次两小时。人们在这两小时里一直在交谈，之后还有其他活动继续。

Yes. I love it. I'm excited for that. And just I think throughout all of communicate as well, we have had different meetups that lasted two hours. People talk that entire two hours and then we had other events that happened afterwards.

所以我们把所有人带到大厅，然后彻底清空大楼，他们继续在外面聊天，然后再回到大楼里继续聊。嗯哼。聊完之后，我们还要去新的地点继续聊天。

So we took everybody, put them in the hall, also completely kicked them out of the building and they continued to talk, and then came back into the building and are continuing to talk. Mhmm. And then after we talk, we're gonna go to a new location and continue to talk.

更多的聊天。我喜欢。明天有很多活动，其中我最喜欢的是James Debson和Breakpoints的音乐会，这场音乐会是为了慈善筹款，这非常重要。

More talking. I love it. So there's lots of events. And tomorrow is one of my favorites, the James Debson and Breakpoints concert, which is raising money for charity, which is very important.

当然，那会非常有趣。

Absolutely. It's super fun.

所以新闻就是Dubbed Up。但开放投票的内容是什么呢？让我们看看。还是关于Dubbed Up。谁会想到呢？

So news is Dubbed Up. But what's the open ballot gonna be? Let's find out. It's about Dubbed Up. Who knew?

我们在网上提了一个问题，问题是这样的，Mikayla，你说是什么问题？

We posted a question online, and the question was, Mikayla, what was it?

你对WWDC二十五最兴奋的是什么？

What were you most excited about from WWDC twenty five?

事实上，我有一大堆回应，等一下。我上新闻了，你可以为此做点什么，改变一下现状。

And with a whole bunch of responses in fact, wait minute. I've been the news. You can do up and about it for a change.

好的，我是

Okay. I was

没有蒸汽。你可以做到的，只需点击下一步。

There's no steam. You can do it. Just press next.

我知道什么？我正试图让我现在面前的这段文字读起来通顺一些。Sadie，我不使用Keynote。

I know what? I'm trying to make I can't read this in front of me right now. Sadie. I don't use Keynote.

没错。

Right.

所以从哦，那意味着我没有——这是作弊。我还没有看到过这些名字中的任何一个，这意味着我根本没见过这些名字，而且我第一次发音时总是不太准。

So from oh, that means I have not this is cheating. I have not seen any of these, meaning I have not seen any of the names and I'm bad at pronouncing names for the first

嗯，这得说回来。你在剪辑中看不到的是，Mikaela 花了很长时间尝试找出正确的名字发音方式。她会上谷歌搜索，听YouTube上的发音，还会去问别人，力求准确地发音；而我则只是随便念过去，希望最好别出错。

Well, that hold up. What you don't see in the edit is that Mikaela spends a long time trying to figure out the correct way to pronounce names. So she's googling it, listening to YouTube versions, asking them to really get exactly right where I I just kinda blunder through, hope for the best.

不管怎样我都会念错，但我至少会非常努力地尝试让发音听起来差不多接近。

I will get them wrong either way, but I try really hard to at least have it somewhat ish close.

开始吧，试试看。

Go. Do it.

但Kendall表示，我认为VisionOS空间锚定小部件将非常棒。这更是一个值得佩戴它的理由。

But Kendall says, I think VisionOS spatially anchored widgets will be fantastic. Even more reason to work wearing one.

再来一个。

And another one.

好，不，我不知道你打算怎么过完所有这些内容。

Okay. No. I don't know how you wanted to go through all these.

开始吧。

Do it.

包括Vision OS的小组件以及人物形象的改进。

Widgets with Vision OS as well as improvements to personas.

是啊，你怎么看？

Yeah. What do you think?

人物形象确实看起来好多了。比如那个对比绝对明显，我完全忘了要说了。电子人是说最后一个关于小组件的人，因为我即使它就在我面前我也看不清。仅从观看苹果官方视频中的示例来看，人物形象就好多了。所以我想知道在现实中它们是否真的能看起来好那么多，因为我的一个朋友有很浓密的胡须，由于他的胡须，他的嘴巴动作看起来就不够准确。

Personas definitely looked a lot better. Like that comparison was absolutely and I did not completely forgot to say. Electron Man is the person who said the last one about widgets because I can't read even though it's in front of me. Personas were a lot better just based on looking at the prescribed Apple video of the example. So I do wonder in person if they actually do look that much better because one of my friends has a very large beard and because of his large beard, his mouth does not move properly.

我很激动地想看到，他的人物形象嘴巴能否正常动起来？那里是有摄像头的，但因为面部毛发的关系，看起来非常尴尬而且模糊。所以我特别感兴趣的是看看他们有没有解决这种小细节问题，我们知道他们在研究这些，因为他们之前做了很多关于你外观的优化。但现在，好吧，他们能不能更精确一些呢？实际使用中，它真的像你期望的那样工作吗？

And I'm so excited to see, can he have a functioning mouth than a persona? Like there's cameras right there but because of his facial hair, it just looks very awkward and is very obscured. So I'm super interested to see kind of things like little details like that that we know they're working on because they worked on a lot of like how you look. But now, okay, let's be more accurate about it. Does it actually, like, function as you you would expect?

这让我想起查理·查普曼尝试用图像擦除功能时的情形，我记得他说好像是微笑猴子什么的。他试图擦掉自己的笑容，结果系统在他脸上加上了胡须。那是一张满是胡须的脸，这是我这辈子见过最吓人的东西之一。不过那些小组件，看起来真的很棒。

It reminds me when, Charlie Chapman tried using the image erase thing, to try and use I think he says smiles monkey or whatever. So he tried to erase his smile and it put beard in place there. It's like a face full of beard. It was one of the creepiest things I have never seen in my entire life. The widgets though, look, they're very impressive.

他们已经全力以赴了。我认为他们基本上承认了VisionOS的一些优点，例如特定位置的小物件，相框、地图，或者对你来说重要的时钟之类的东西。他们做得很好，把它浮雕到墙上或让它突出显示出来，这就是物体恒存性，它会保持在原位。应用程序也会保留在原处。

They've they've they've gone to town. I think they've basically acknowledged some of the best things about VisionOS is a thing in a certain place, picture frame, map, whatever it is that matters to your clock. And they've done a really good job of, you know, embossing it into the wall or bringing it out, it's object permanence. It stays where it is. So apps stay where they are as well.

这对很多人来说是一个长期存在的烦恼，现在一夜之间解决了。我认为VisionOS社区或者Vision Pro用户将会很快升级，因为它是一个非常棒的功能。

And those were long standing annoyance to folks, and they've just gone away overnight. And I think the VisionOS community or with VisionPros will upgrade very very quickly to that because it's such a great feature.

哦，当然。而且这一点是人们从一开始就在要求的。这是我们大家马上都能注意到的事情。我们当时就想，好吧，把它去掉，放回所有东西。好的。

Oh, absolutely. And with that, it's that's something that people have been asking for, like, from the beginning. That's something we all immediately notice. We're like, okay, take it off, put everything. Okay.

让我们先把它去掉，然后再装回去。它们去哪了？比如，每个人都会做的第一件事之一就是这个。

Let's take it off, put it back on. Where'd they go? Like, every single person, that was one of the first things that they did.

另外，现在在手机上保存配置文件同样也是显而易见的功能。你已经完成了整个大腿设置、手部设置之类的东西，你知道的，看着那些点，随便什么。然后保存到你的手机上。这样下次点击完成就可以了，对吧？

Also, save profiles now on your phone is, again, an obvious thing. Got the whole thigh, set up a hand set up thing, you know, look at the dots, whatever. Then save to your phone. So next time, click done. Right?

嗯嗯，对。进入门槛正在降低，这很好。还有什么新功能？杨说

Mhmm. Yeah. Barriers to entry getting away, which is great. What else we get? Yang says

哦，哦，你想让我把所有的都念出来吗？好。我来工作嘛。是的。我忘记了。

Oh, oh, do you want me to read all of them? Okay. I get to work. Yeah. I've forgotten.

他们拿什么付你工资？你不应该得到报酬。

What do they have paying you for? Shouldn't get paid.

我们没有？Eno Yang 说，我对液态玻璃的可读性有担忧。我们有什么控制手段？Ankit 说，我喜欢默认情况下的无障碍功能，我真的很想知道苹果的无障碍团队有没有讨论过将无障碍功能与玻璃效果相结合的问题。

We do not? Eno Yang says, I have liquid glass readability concerns. What control do we have? Ankit says, I like accessibility by default, and I'm really wondering if those in Apple accessibility talked about intersecting accessibility with the glass metaphor.

看，很明显他们做过这些工作。是的。他们对此非常非常重视。苹果公司长期以来一直非常认真地对待这个问题。他们不会马虎应付的。

Look look, obviously they did. Yeah. They take it very, very seriously. Apple have been doing that for a very, very long time. They're not gonna screw around.

说实话，我在我的主力iPhone上使用后也有些担心。信不信由你，它对我来说并不容易阅读。我主屏幕上的许多通知在背景前显示得不是很好。所以我猜测他们在一些方面做了大量优化，例如当开启减少动态效果或增加对比度时，界面看起来会很棒、很清晰、很容易阅读。但是对于那些使用默认设置的人来说，体验并不出色。我担心他们只有大概三个月的时间来完善和发布这个产品，我不确定时间是否足够。

I have concerns having used it on my primary iPhone, believe it or not, it is not easy for me to read. A lot of the notifications on my home screen don't work great against the background. So I suspect they've done a lot of work around things like, you know, when reduced motion's available, when increased contrast's available and turned on, whatever, then it looks great and clear and easy. But the poor saps on sort of defaults, it's not brilliant. And I'm concerned that they only have three ish months to kind of polish this thing and ship it, And I'm not sure it's enough time.

这是否是你使用过程中遇到的一个问题呢？今天早上我们在开发者活动期间在开发者中心的大苏尔剧院展示的时候，他们展示了普通玻璃的效果，同时也展示了透明一点的玻璃效果。但这两者是不是只能二选一？有时候根据不同的背景，是否需要一边更亮，另一边更暗一些？还是说无论怎么看，它始终都是统一的效果？

Is that like that one of the issues that you're having with it, is it because when we were in the developer activities that happened this morning that was in the Big Sur Theater that's in the developer center, They were showing there is regular glass. There is also a clear kind of glass. But does that show like it's always one or the other? Because sometimes depending on whatever the background is, do you need actually one side to be lighter, one side to be kind of darker, or it's always uniform when you're like looking at it?

是的。因此有多种玻璃效果变体，人们试图进行适应，但其中一种需要调暗背景。这种自适应效果并不太好。例如今天，它显示‘您的优步还有五分钟到达’，在深色背景上非常清晰，易于阅读。即使后面有玻璃效果，也仍然容易阅读。

Yeah. So there's multiple glass variants that one tries to adapt and one just goes, has to dim the background. It's the adaptive one isn't great. So for example today, it was saying, your Uber is five minutes away against dark background, very clear, easy to read. Still a glass thing behind it, easy to read.

而在那下面，比如信息、电子邮件之类的内容，使用的是浅色文字或浅色背景，我一看就觉得，你当然能看清楚，但文字不像以前那样突出了。以前一眼就能看出内容，现在我们失去了一些可读性。我有点担心，因为iOS 7的转变并不容易。大家都是这么说的。好吧。

And below that, like messages and emails and stuff, which was like light text or light background, and I was like, I can't you look at it, you can read it, of course you can read it, but it's not popping like it used to. You'd be really obvious to what it said, and and so we lost some readability. I'm worried because iOS seven, you know, was a difficult move. That's what they're saying. Okay.

我们为复古显示屏设计iOS，使用非常纤细的图标和非常细的字体。直到iOS 9或10才逐渐调整过来。而现在到了2018年，当前的稳定版本已经处于一个成熟良好的状态。现在我们又回到了类似的状态，可读性似乎还不够，清晰度也不够，又变得非常纤细。

We'll design iOS for retro displays. We're gonna use super skinny icons, really thin fonts. And it took them to about iOS nine or 10 to kind of unpick those things. And now in '18, the current stable version, it's in a great mature state. And we're now going back to sort of like it's not quite readable enough, not quite clear enough, very skinny again.

我想到了2027或2028年，他们可能会稍微调整一下，再调整一点，以达到更好的平衡。但这很烦人，因为它很烦人，因为人们会尽快在手机上安装它，或者可能使用模拟器。试一下，看看它的样子，因为当你查看标签页时，比如进入时钟应用切换标签页，会有一个巨大的玻璃效果，像液体一样在屏幕上晃动、滑动。

I think in '27, '28, they'll just undo it a little bit, undo it a little bit to try and get a better balance. But it's annoying. It's annoying because folks, install it on your phone as soon as you can or a simulator perhaps. Try it out, you know, see what it looks like because you look at the tabs. You go to like the clock app and change the tabs, there's a massive glass effect like liquid bouncing around, slurping around the screen.

目前这个效果非常夸张，其实并不需要，因为标签页切换动画本身是应用中一个有趣的设计。真正有趣的是时钟和闹钟等内容，而不是标签页的动画效果。我觉得他们有点过于享受自己的工作了。希望这个效果之后能稍微减弱一点。

It's it's very, very exaggerated right now, and it doesn't need to be because the change of the tab animation is an interesting thing in the app. The interesting thing is the clocks and stuff, your alarms, not the tab animations. I think they enjoy themselves a bit too much. So hopefully, it'll be dialed back a little bit.

他们太喜欢自己的工作了。

They like they like their job too much.

他们确实如此。

They really do.

接下来，Stefan说基础模型对我来说是个亮点。我之前就希望它能出现，并且已经在现有和未来的项目中有一些想法。同时，像Jules提到的那样，基础框架模型将很有趣，看看人们如何测试它的能力边界。这是我非常感兴趣的一点，因为这是一个我们下载后将在本地运行的模型。这东西多久会更新一次呢？

And next, Stefan says foundation models is the highlight for me. I've hoped it would come already have a few ideas from my existing and future projects. And also hanging like Jules says foundation framework models, it will be interesting to see people test the limits of what it can do and cannot do. That's what I'm very interested to see because this is a model that we're then downloading because it's then gonna run locally. How often is this going to be a thing that updates?

比如，我们会看到很多小版本更新吗？忘了哪一年了，天哪，是2026年。我们会不会为2026年发布很多小版本，每个版本都包含一个我们需要不断安装的新模型？因为他们没有提到是否会推出新的应用程序，或者我们是否可以单独下载模型。所以他们打算怎么操作，我非常感兴趣，比如，他们会不会开始改变更新的方式？

Like, are we gonna have a bunch of point releases of Forgot the year, oh my gosh, '26. Oh, are going to have a bunch of point releases for '26, which will be like a new model that we'll keep installing because they didn't say anything about getting some new app that we we could like individually download the models. So how they wanna do that, I'm super interested to see like, are they gonna start changing how updates work?

是的，也许吧。我想用户应该不会在意这些，对吧？比如，‘有一个基础模型更新’这样的提示。

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I guess you wanna go go to the updates and see, well, there's a foundation model update. Like, users don't care, do they?

没错，这就像，现在是不是由开发者来决定什么时候真正发生这种情况了？

Exactly. It's like, do developers then control when that's actually gonna happen now?

不。但你看，它是内置的，这就使其绝对私密。我之前看过神经引擎。神经引擎八年前推出时每秒可以进行600亿次浮点运算。如今，它每秒可以进行38万亿次运算。

No. But look, it's built in, which makes it absolutely private. I was looking at the Neural Engine. Neural Engine launched eight years ago and could do 600,000,000,000 floating operations second. Today, it can do 38,000,000,000,000.

我想，比如，在短短八年时间里，速度提高了大约六十五倍。苹果显然正在大力投资设备端的私人AI。我喜欢这一点。我认为这是一个巨大的第一步。虽然模型还不够完美。

I guess, like, sixty, sixty five times faster in just eight years. Apple are clearly investing massively in on device, you know, private AI. I love that. I love this is a massive first step. It's not a brilliant model.

不过还行吧。我的意思是，它有30亿个参数，但这已经是一个巨大的开端了。而且只会变得更好。这是它最差的时候了，而现在已经还可以。

It's okay. I mean, it's 3,000,000,000 parameters, but it's a massive start. And that's gonna only make it better. This is the worst it's ever gonna be. And it's already okay.

但我觉得AI就是这样，就是这里是我们现在在做的事情，然后不断迭代。所有东西都在持续地迭代更新，这也让我对所有这类更新感到好奇。

That's like everything though with AI AI, I feel like, is just here's what we're doing now and just iterate. Everything is constant iterations, which makes me wonder also about all the updates like that.

另外，我也一直在想Xcode的问题，因为Xcode仍然是一年发布一次，对吧？

Well, also I wonder about Xcode generally because Xcode is still an annual release. Right?

是啊，我也一直在想这个问题。

Yeah. I've been wondering about that too.

这挺奇怪的。在这个时代，像Kirsten一周会发布两次更新或者类似的东西，基本上每隔一天就会给我更新一下聊天功能。他们几乎是在持续不断地发布新版本。而Echo却说：不，我们一年才发布一次。这种做法现在没人这么做了。

It's weird. In this in this day and age, like, Kirsten will do two releases a week or something, you know, of chat to me every other day basically. They're pretty much doing rolling releases of stuff happening all the time, and Echo's like, no. We do an annual release. And like, no one works like that anymore.

挺奇怪的。

It's weird.

是啊。我认为他们基本上将无法继续这样下去。大家都会说，哦，我们最后都不用这个了，除了那些最终出于隐私之类的原因不得不使用它的公司，以及训练自己模型的公司。但我只是不太确定。

Yeah. It's I think they just won't be able to basically is what's gonna happen. Everyone's gonna be like, oh, we end up all not using this because except, you know, the corporations that end up having to use it Yeah. For all the privacy kind of reasons and who trains their models. But I just I don't know.

嗯，如果他们推出26.1 Xcode 2.3版本，同样重大的更新。不需要等到下一个 dub w w o，哦，Xcode 有新功能了，就定期每季度发布一次。那样会很好。每个季度一次。

Well, if they make 26.1 Xcode point 2.3, just equally big releases. Don't wait for the next dub w w o, oh, Xcode's out with new stuff. Just roll it out regularly in a constantly quarterly basis. That'd be great. Once a quarter.

每个季度一次挺好的。

Quarter would great.

是的，我们也是这么想的。

That's all we Yeah.

是的，那没问题。很简单。来吧，Craig，开始干活吧。

Yeah. That's fine. It's easy. Come on, Craig. Get to work.

就像Search说的，能够在模拟器中随意操作时让Xcode为你编写UI测试。在我看来，这本就应该这样工作。还有Michael Mayer说，他对Xcode的改进感到兴奋，特别是多词搜索、LLM集成和Icon Composer。

Like Search says, the ability to have Xcode write UI tests for you by fiddling around in the simulator. That's always how it should have worked in my opinion. And also Michael Mayer says, I'm excited about the improvements to Xcode, especially multiple word searches, LLM integration, and Icon Composer.

所以今天他们在开发者中心重点介绍了Icon Composer，强调它有多么棒。他们说，比如我们导入的照片图标以前只是些扁平的色块，而其他所有工作现在都可以在Icon Composer中完成。如果真是这样的话，那确实令人印象深刻。这意味着我们拥有了与他们相同的工具，可以制作出在所有平台上都看起来很棒的图标，能够响应光线变化，以及图层、模糊等效果。这是一个功能非常强大的应用。如果你仔细观察的话，当你倾斜手机时，可以看到图标会有些微变化。

So they laid it on heavy today at the developer center for the Icon Composer, saying how great it is. And they're saying, you know, we import the photos icon as like just some flat blobs, and all the rest of the work is done in the Icon Composer, which is, if that's true, very impressive indeed. Because it means we have the same tools they do building great icons that look great at all platforms that respond with the light and so forth and layers, blurs, and more. It's a really powerful app. It's one of those things that if you look really carefully, you can see as you tilt your phone, the icons change slightly.

但这些图标非常小，它们的尺寸真的很小很小。所以其实你也看不到它有什么明显的变化。同样，他们花了很多时间在这非常小的细节上，然后又去关注ab图标。

But they're this big. They're like, they're really, really tiny icons. So it's like, okay. Well, you can't really see it doing very much. Again, they spent a lot of time on this very small thing and then gone for the ab icons.

那就是我所说的音效。我非常喜欢它。我们需要这个功能。这个实际上

That's that's that's what I'm calling it, a sound effect. I love it. We need that. This actual

这个控制台有音效。

this console has sound effects.

怎么了？因为现在没有Mikaela悲伤的长号音效了。就是这个。可能以后也不会再播放了。这里有一个音效。

What's up? Because there's there's no there's now no Mikaela sad trombone fruitful sound. There you go. It may not be played again. There's a hit right there.

克里斯甚至不需要

Chris doesn't even need

我知道，是的，但那已经被淘汰了。

I know. Right. But it's been it's been retired.

整整这一周，我一直在思考一个问题，但它总是不等我就离我而去。

This entire week, I have had a train of thought, and it just keeps leaving without me.

他现在把所有那些内容都锁定了。

He's locked all of what was there now.

你刚才说的是

You talked about the

是的。

Yes.

光线以及光线如何照射到图标上。是不是所有图标同时受到相同的光照？因为当你单独看一个图标时，在我们之前看到的一个演示中显示，你可以旋转光源的方向，然后可以看到光线从图标的边缘反射出来。但是当你在手机主屏幕上看到所有应用的时候，它们会不会都以同样的方式被照亮？

Light and how light hits the icons. Does it hit them all together as in because when you have the single icon, they showed in one of the demos we were looking at that you can, like, rotate around where the light source is coming from, and then you can see the light reflect off of the edges of the icon. But when you have all the apps on your home screen, do they collectively all hit light the same

预览嘛，哦，就像是放大和缩小。这样你就能大概看到它在不同环境下的效果。

previewing. Oh. It's like zooming in and out. So can sort of see how it might look in different environments to see.

但如果你移动手机，这些图标是不是都会随之产生类似的效果？

But if you, like, moved your phone, do they all have, like

应该会吧，我想是这样的。

They should do. I believe.

光源相信。更好？

Light sources believe. Better?

谁知道呢？这就是为什么我之前说，你可以更改背景之类的，因为你能看到玻璃是如何反射的，等等等等。这真的非常强大。这是为一个没人真正遇到过的问题提供的绝佳解决方案。实际上，说到基本分辨率，我问了伍德拉克·里姆，因为他显然是人工智能的忠实粉丝。

Who knows? That's That's why I had like, you could change the background and stuff because see how the glass shines through and yada yada yada. It's really powerful. It's a it's a fantastic solution to a problem no one really had. Actually, speaking of elementary resolution, I asked Woodrank Reem because he obviously, big fan of AI.

他试过在Mac OS 26上运行ChatGPT。结果整个Mac都崩溃了。彻底瘫痪。他说程序占用了80GB的显存，然后完全崩溃了。

He tried the ChatGPT on Mac OS 26. And it took down his whole Mac. The whole thing went down. He said it went through 80 gigs of video memory then completely collapsed.

知道这点太吓人了。

That's terrifying to know.

非常糟糕。不像普通的系统错误那样。整个Mac都崩溃了。所以，是的，千万别这么做。

Really bad. Like, not like not Escrow Crash. The whole Mac went down. So, yeah. Just don't no.

Mac OS 26.1可能有些问题，但也许表现会很好。

Mac OS 26.1 is something bad, spokes real great, maybe.

这也是提醒大家，不要在你的主力设备上安装测试版软件。同时记得备份你的设备。

And this is your reminder to everyone, do not put betas on your primary device Yeah. And back up your devices.

只有傻瓜才会那么做。

Only a fool would do that.

同意。

Agreed.

确实如此。

Would rank.

问问保罗他是怎么知道的。

Ask Paul how he knows.

是的。我对这部电话非常满意。这部电话非常棒。正如穆斯塔法所说，它很棒。我问过查理。

Yeah. I I the phone's great. The phone's brilliant. As Mustafa said, it's great. I asked Charlie.

查理说它很棒。真的很棒。它非常稳定。不是那种超级快的。而且你知道刚开始那天，因为索引之类的原因电池消耗得特别快，这个问题现在已经没有了。

Charlie said it's great. It's great. It's really solid. It's not, like, super fast. And you know that first day when it's, like, draining battery really quickly because it's indexing and stuff, that's really been gone.

很好。我对它非常满意。

It's great. I'm very happy with it.

很高兴知道这点。我不会在我的主要设备上安装Nevis，因为它让我有点害怕。

That's good to know. I do not put Nevis on my primary devices because it scares me.

可以理解。

Fair enough.

但苹果有时确实能解决问题。有时候。好的。解决一些他们确实在解决的问题，而我之前并不认为它是

But Apple does sometimes solve problems. Sometimes. Okay. Solve problems that they actually are solving, and, I didn't think it was

也许可以把这个放到新部分里。苹果有时确实能解决问题。

Put put that in the new section perhaps. Apple does sometimes solve problems.

它们确实解决了。并且它们现在解决了一个UIKit的问题，即支持可观察对象，朗提到这是她最喜欢的特性之一。此外，克劳迪娅提到尽管他们展示了一张图片，但她真的想在iPad上试试三维图形计算器。

They do. And they solved one problem of UIKit now supports observable objects, and Long mentioned this is one of their favorite features. And along with that, Claudia mentions how although they showed an image, I really want to try three d graphing calculator on iPad.

是的。所以我很高兴UIKit仍然在不断改进。我很高兴它仍然被支持。它仍然是一个极佳的框架。仍然被数十万个应用程序使用。

Yeah. So I'm glad that UIKit's still getting better. I'm glad it's still supported. It's still a fantastic framework. It's still, you know, used by hundreds of thousands of apps.

但在这个时候，要说让我们用UIKit开发一个新应用是非常困难的。因为现在绝大多数内容，压倒性多数的内容都已经转向了SwiftUI，包括从iOS 26开始的WebKit以及类似框架。

But at this point, it's very hard to say, let's build a new app in UIKit. Because the vast majority of things, the overwhelming majority of things are on SwiftUI now, including from iOS 26, WebKit, and similar.

我正要说这个，我之前考虑过，我这样做的原因之一可能就是在某些时候你虽然在使用SwiftUI，但仍然需要回到UIKit。现在至少在你需要使用UIKit的地方，你都可以使用Observable。

I was gonna say, I was thinking one of the reasons I probably did that is for those times when you're in SwiftUI, but then you still have to go back to UIKit. Now at least you can use observable for all the UIKit's land you have to be in.

是的。关键是，我想它是基于Swift 6.2的新观察系统。但我有点希望它能带来其他方面的改进，比如对数据库操作的支持，但它并没有做到。这是一个奇怪的选择。不过算了，事情已经发生了。

Yeah. The thing is, I guess it's powered by a new observation system from Swift 6.2. But I was kinda hoping that I'd come to other things, c lites with data, didn't do. It's an odd choice. But look, it's happened.

它已经存在了。它很好。它很灵活。而SwiftUI几乎就是现在唯一的选择了。是不是这样？

It's there. It's good. It's flexible. And SwiftUI is pretty much it. Is it the thing?

我认为是这样的。即使现在，如果你使用网页视图（web view）。

I think so. Even now, if you use a web view.

我知道。提到网页视图。在Dub Dub中没有一个人认为网页视图是最好的东西。我感到惊讶，因为这是一个非常棒的东西。更不用说它的丰富技术支持了。

I know. A mention web view. Not a single person web view is the best thing in in Dub Dub. I'm amazed because it's a a wonderful thing. Not a mention, the rich tech support.

再说一次，非常棒。所以所有我最喜欢的特性都没有在里面。Mikaela，你最喜欢的是什么？你最喜欢哪一点？

Again, lovely. So all my favorite favorites aren't in there. What's your favorite thing, Mikaela? What do you like most?

我之前真的应该提前想好这个问题。

I definitely should have thought of this beforehand.

我该这么做吗？我知道。

Should I do that? I know.

知道。我可能把它放在播客里了。但有人在这里提到了switch

Knew. I probably put it in the podcast. But switch someone here mentioned switch

现在切换。现在非常高级。

switch now. It's very fancy now.

这非常好，而且令人兴奋。但我并不经常看图表。

Which is very good, and that is exciting. But I don't look at charts often.

基本上，你去了公园并吃了食物。

So basically, you went to park and ate the food.

我确实去了。

I did.

食物很好。是非常美味的食物。

It's good food. It's very nice food.

确实是这样。我的意思是，好吧。我在那里时谈到过食物，这是最后几件事之一。我当时说，天哪，这个太好吃了。我吃了一个迷你汉堡，并告诉了周围所有人它有多好吃。

It was. I mean, okay. I was talking about the food when I went there, one of the last things. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so good. I had one of the sliders and told everybody who I was standing around how good it was.

然后我又吃了一个。我说，是的，这真的很好吃。在我离开之前，我差点又拿第三个，不过我还是克制住了自己。

And then I had another one. I'm like, yeah, this was really good. And then I almost grabbed a third before I left, but I was responsible and didn't.

你有没有想过为什么Mac这么贵？因为所有的钱都花在Apple Park的食物部门了。

Have you ever wondered why Mac's so expensive? Because all the money is going to Apple Park's food department

哦，对啊。

Oh, yeah.

麦克斯咖啡馆。那里的披萨不太好吃。周一的时候披萨还没上，但味道真的很棒。如果你能和一位苹果公司的朋友开会，记得去麦克斯咖啡馆吃披萨。

Cafe Max. You the pizza's not very good. The pizza wasn't there on Monday, but it's very good. If you can get get a meeting with an Apple friend, Cafe Max. Pizza.

这就是正确的做法。

That's the way to do it.

他们仍然拥有一项专利，或者一项关于完全圆形披萨盒的专利，这样就不会浪费任何空间。我知道。

They they still have a patent or a patent, you just say, on perfectly round pizza boxes. So no space is wasted. I know.

我很喜欢这一点。

I love that.

我知道，是的。

I know. Yeah.

我最喜欢的功能是，我还没有测试过。终端颜色这个功能真的很有趣，因为我使用的是基础版的 Mac 终端，我不用那些花哨的东西，也不会下载其他所有东西。所以现在它正在实现这一点。另外，液态玻璃也很酷。我很感兴趣人们会如何适应它。

My favorite feature, I haven't tested it yet. Would terminal colors is honestly, I think a fun thing because I use basic Mac terminal because I'm not fancy and I don't download all the other things. So that one's doing it right now. But then also just the liquid glass is cool. I'm interested to just see how do people adapt to it.

比如，我们会改变导航吗？我们会改变标签栏吗？仅此而已吗？还是有人会彻底发挥创意，把它引入整个应用程序中看看会发生什么？我认为

Like, do we change the navigation? Do we change the tab bar? And that's it. Or does somebody like go ham and introduce it into their entire application and see what happens? And I think

说实话，今天我在 Qunity Kit 的一个活动上向一些人介绍了这个功能，我可能只讲了一半好的 Glass 相关的内容。它还能做更多事情。例如，还有整套的 UI 类型，比如一种玻璃容器，可以围绕 VStack 或类似的组件，但这只能在 iOS 26 上运行。而且苹果已经说得很清楚了。

that's Be honest. I I was talking folks through it today at a event here at Qunity Kit, and I already got through maybe half the good Glass stuff. There's so much more it can do. There's whole u types, like a a glass container, for example, which go around, you know, like a VStack or similar or similar, and that only works in iOS 26. And they've been very clear.

Xcode 中有一个标志可以禁用玻璃效果。给我所有新功能，比如 Foundation 模型等等，6.2 之类的版本，但暂时不要给我 Glass 功能。我还没准备好。他们明确表示，在未来，这个标志只保留一年时间。所以你有一年的时间来跟上节奏并切换到 Glass。

There's a flag to put an x code, disabled glass basically. Give me all the new stuff like foundation models, you know, so 6.2 whatever, but don't give me glass yet. I'm not ready. And they've said in the so to, you've got one year before that flag goes away. So you've got one year to catch up and switch to glass.

否则，无论怎样你都会被强制应用 Glass 效果。

Otherwise, you'll be glassified no matter what.

孟，我们的部署必须加快速度。另外，哦，我觉得我最喜欢的环节就是能亲临现场和每个人聊天。我觉得我这周都没怎么睡觉，但这真的太棒了。

Meng, we got we gotta be speedy with these deployments. Also, oh, I think just my favorite part was being there. I've just chatting with everybody. Like, I don't think I've had any sleep this week, but it's been absolutely amazing.

我同意。然后最后一个结束。好吗？下一个是什么？最后一个。

I agree. And one to end on. Okay? And what's the next one? Last one.

这里写着

It says here