"巨婴"及其他关于男性无能的歌曲

本周在灰色地带节目中，我们将探讨记忆如何影响我们对自己和他人讲述的故事。

This week on the gray area, we're learning about how memory affects the stories we tell ourselves and each other.

人们往往记住生活中积极事件多于消极事件。但更重要的是，当重构这些记忆时，他们倾向于更积极地看待自己。然后你从中构建出一个叙事。也许这个叙事是我们的民族很伟大，也许这个叙事是我们曾经伟大，如今却糟糕透顶。

People tend to remember positive events more from their lives than negative events. But more importantly, when they reconstruct them, they tend to remember themselves more positively. And then you construct a narrative out of it. And maybe that narrative is that our people are great. Maybe that narrative is we used to be great, and now we're terrible.

我们需要再次伟大起来。

We need to be great again.

欢迎在任何收听播客的平台订阅《灰色地带》，每周一更新新节目。

Listen to the gray area wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday.

欢迎来到《流行音乐开关》，我是歌曲作者查理·哈丁。

Welcome to Switched on Pop. I'm songwriter Charlie Harding.

我是音乐学者内特·斯隆，我们正牵着手呢。我们牵着手了。我们终于线下见面了，查理。

And I'm musicologist Nate Sloan, and we are holding hands. We are holding hands. We're IRL, Charles.

这是很久以来的第一次。

For the first time in a long time.

我知道。这很有趣。你闻起来很棒。所以我能不能

I know. It's fun. You smell great. So can I

先问你一个私人问题？请说说，你最不擅长的是什么？

start with asking you a personal question? Please. What are you most incompetent about?

哦，太多了。从哪儿说起呢？数学，整体来说就不行。真的，我现在连乘法口诀表都记不清了。

Oh, so many things. Where to start? Math, just in general. Yeah. I don't even remember my multiplication table at this point.

这真让人难为情。

It's embarrassing.

事实证明，音乐和数学根本毫无关联。

Music and math have nothing to do with each other, turns out.

是啊。我觉得这是个误解，因为我是这个规律的例外。

Yeah. I think that's a a misconception because I am the exception to that rule.

那你的感情生活呢？

How about in your romantic life?

嗯，从历史上看，确实有很多无能的表现。但最近我觉得自己状态火热。哦。是的。没错。

Well, historically, there's a lot of incompetence. But I think recently, I've been on a hot streak. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

结婚十年，十周年纪念日。

Married ten years, ten year anniversary.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以，是的。好吧。对此相当满意。

So, yeah. Okay. Pretty pleased with that.

那么今天，我想试着向业内最优秀的词曲作者学习。好的。关于如何克服作为一个无能男人的问题。

Well, today, I wanna try to learn from the best songwriters in the business Okay. About how to overcome being an incompetent man.

哦，这是个非常有价值的话题，因为在有毒的男子气概和男性孤独流行病之间。确实。

Oh, this is a very valuable topic because between toxic masculinity and the male loneliness epidemic Yeah.

男人们需要改进。所以我们从今天的导师开始。她是萨布丽娜·卡彭特和她的新单曲《巨婴》。萨布丽娜·卡彭特回来了。这位娇小的前迪士尼明星。

Men need work. So let's start with our instructor for today. It's Sabrina Carpenter and her new single, Man Child. Sabrina Carpenter is back. The petite former Disney star.

没错，就是奥利维亚·罗德里戈《驾照》MV里的金发女孩。这位流行巨星去年以夏日最洗脑神曲惊艳全球，《Espresso》只是她专辑《Short and Sweet》中众多爆款单曲之一。而现在看来，她的创作还远未结束。

Yeah. The blonde girl from Olivia Rodrigo's Driver's License. The pop star who surprised the world with the stickiest summer hit of last year. Espresso, one of the many hit singles off her album Short and Sweet that generated countless hits. Well, turns out she's not done.

她已宣布将于八月发行新专辑《男人最好的朋友》，首发单曲《巨婴男孩》充分展现了她天赋异禀的能力——能将露骨的暗示巧妙融入歌曲。这些作品充满令人上瘾的趣味，且犀利无比，《巨婴男孩》正是如此。

She has announced a new album coming in August called Man's Best Friend. And she's leading with this single, Man Child. Which is I think showing off one of her great gifts that she can sprinkle in obvious innuendo. But there's something cravingly fun about these songs, and they are absolutely whip smart. I think that's the case with Man Child.

这首歌是与艾米·艾伦和杰克·安东诺夫合作完成的，他们参与了她上张专辑的大部分制作。现在让我们深入解析，看看能否破译这首歌的核心信息。

It's a collaboration with Amy Allen and Jack Antonoff, who worked on much of her last album. Let's dig in and see if we can decode what the main message of the song is.

我有些猜测，不过开始吧，查尔斯。

I have some suspicions, but let's do it, Charles.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

巨婴男孩，这简直就是男性无能的缩影。没错，男人被惯坏了，他们永远不必长大，可以一辈子当小孩。

Man child, I mean, this is male incompetence in a nutshell. Yeah. You know, men are coddled. They don't have to grow up. They get to be children forever.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且他们依赖生活中的女性来照顾自己。而萨布丽娜·卡彭特在这里表示，我对这种现状有点受够了。好吧。这就是本期内容。好的。

And they rely on the women in their lives to take care of them. And here's Sabrina Carpenter saying, I think I'm a little fed up with this status quo. Alright. That's the episode. Okay.

下周见。

See you next week.

我觉得这首歌用轻松的方式表达了：为什么这些蠢男人总会出现在我生活中？我得摆脱他们。实际上我认为这里有很多颠覆传统叙事的深意。好的。这一切都始于她出色的歌词创作手法。

I mean, I feel like this song has this lighthearted feeling about saying, why do all these dumb men end up in my life? I gotta get rid of them. I actually think there's a lot more going on here that subverts the narrative. Okay. And it all begins with her spectacular lyrical approach.

因为从一开始，她就要用绝妙的讽刺让这个男人难堪。字面意思就是管这家伙叫巨婴。这可不是什么好词。我们稍后会详细解释巨婴的定义。但她在副歌部分更是火力全开。

Because from the very beginning, she's gonna take this man down a notch with a great insult. I mean, literally is calling this guy a man child. Like, that can't be a good thing. We're gonna get more into the definition of the man child. But she doubles down in the chorus.

从未

Never

你的脑子就一直停在那了吗？

has your brain just stayed there?

感觉她在这里开了个玩笑。几乎像是个笑点。我们听到从未听说过自我关爱。砰。你半个脑子都不在线。

It really feels like she's making a joke here. There's almost a punch line. We hear never heard heard of of self self care. Kabam. Half your brain just ain't there.

砰。

Boom.

就像鼓点收尾。没错。这里有些非常尖锐的侮辱。

Like a rim shot. Yeah. Some very lacerating insults here.

而且这是个老词了。原来，“巨婴”是个非常古老的术语，自十四世纪就已存在，最初仅指男性孩童。好吧。

And it's an old one. Manchild, it turns out, is a very old term. It's been around since the fourteenth century. Originally meaning simply a male child. Okay.

你知道的，因为现代关于童年的概念其实是近代才有的。

You know, because like modern ideas of childhood are modern.

对。青春期这个概念过去不存在。没错。是的。

Right. The adolescence didn't exist. Right. Yeah.

但根据谷歌搜索趋势，“巨婴”一词在2010年代真正流行起来，可能得益于我们自己的出版物《Vulture》。以下是几个标题：2011年，《希亚·拉博夫，字面意义上的巨型巨婴》；2012年，《最新消息，亚当·桑德勒饰演巨婴》。

But according to Google search trends, the term man child really took off in the twenty tens. And it may have been aided by our own publication Vulture. Here's just a few headlines. In 2011, Shia LaBeouf, literal giant man child. In 2012, this just in, Adam Sandler plays a man child.

2014年，《成年之死与享乐主义的崛起，或为何塞斯·罗根比伍迪·艾伦更严肃》，称塞斯·罗根为巨婴。最后在2015年，《巨婴角色开始显得乏味，他们的电影过度重复素材》。《巨婴之死》。当你想象塞斯·罗根演艺生涯中的巨婴形象时，你会想到什么？

In 2014, the death of adulthood and the rise of pleasure or why Seth Rogen is more serious than Woody Allen, Calling Seth Rogen the man child. And finally, in 2015, the man child characters are beginning to fall flat and their movies to over recycle their material. The death of the man child. What do you think of when you picture the man child in the, maybe, acting career of Seth Rogen?

好问题。回顾塞斯·罗根的电影作品：《一夜大肚》，《一夜大肚》，那部不错。

Good question. Seth Rogen, going through his filmography. Knocked Up. Knocked Up. That's a good one.

他演过《四十岁老处男》。对。他塑造的角色都是

He's in 40 year old virgin. Yeah. And his characters are

沉溺在电子游戏、大麻和永无止境的青春期里。没错。还有毫无前途的工作。

Living in a perpetual adolescence of video games and weed and Yep. Dead end jobs.

是啊。臃肿无能、拒绝承担实际责任的成年男性，更别提经营感情了。贾德·阿帕图的电影里许多男性角色都可以称作'巨婴'。所以这是个绝妙的侮辱词汇，已经流行好一阵子了。

Yeah. Flubby, incompetent, grown men who aren't ready to take on any real responsibilities, let alone relationships. You can think of many of the male characters of Judd Apatow films as the man child. So it's a great insult. Been in the lexicon for a minute.

我尤其欣赏她抛出这句侮辱的方式。因为她通过展示推导过程来颠覆'无脑黑'的叙事——她在为笑点铺垫。听听她在副歌前奏部分的处理：

And I particularly enjoy the way that she lands this insult. Because one of the ways that I think she's subverting the dumb blah narrative is she's showing her work. She's leading up to the punchline. Check out how she does it in the pre chorus.

告诉你家宝贝该怎么形容？蠢货？还是迟钝？或许叫废物更贴切？但总得找个理由自圆其说。我懂。

Tell your baby what do you call it? Stupid. Or is it slow? Maybe it's useless, but there's a cue to work for it. I know.

她就像在说：我该怎么称呼你呢？

She's like, what should I call you?

是啊。你傻吗？

Yeah. You stupid?

不。那那还不够。你反应慢？我我我有更好的。让我让我看看能不能加点料。

No. That's that's not enough. You slow? I I I got a better one. Let me let me see if I can punch that up.

不。你就是个巨婴。这话够狠。但也活该。所以这首歌很幼稚。

No. You're a man child. It's brutal. And well deserved. So the song is silly.

很有趣。它抛出了惊人的侮辱。但我认为真正的机智体现在歌曲的编排方式上。她是个真正的音乐创新者。我是说，在第二段主歌里，我们听到了全新的旋律和更尖刻的歌词。

It's fun. It lands an amazing insult. But I think the wit really comes across in the way that the song is constructed. She's a real musical innovator. I mean, in the second verse, we get a whole new melody and even more cutting lyrics.

全新的旋律素材。用这种非常轻飘飘的、嗯、嗓音唱着。她就像在问，既然这么蠢，为何还这么性感？怎么在地球上活这么久的？

New melodic material. Sung in this very sort of airy Yeah. Kind of voice. And she's like, why so sexy, if so dumb? And how survive the earth so long?

她用那种像愚蠢穴居人的声音唱着。

She's singing in the voice of like dumb caveman.

是啊。太狠了。到这会儿，我都

Yeah. It's brutal. At this point, I'm

有点好奇，这到底是什么歌？我们讨论过‘巨婴’这个概念。对。但你到底在听什么？一首流行热曲。

kind of wondering like, what on earth is this song? We've talked about the concept, man child. Yeah. But like, what are you listening to? A bop.

流行热曲？好吧，一首无法归类的流行热曲。嗯哼。从一开始，就能听出Jack Antonoff偏爱的音乐风格。

A bop? Okay. A bop that defies categorization. Uh-huh. From the start, we get the preferred musical palette of Jack Antonoff.

对。八十年代的Juno合成器音色，还有我认为是Lindrum编程的鼓点。没错。开篇是八十年代新浪潮音乐，但不会停留太久。乐器部分里那种摇滚DI吉他声又把我们拉回七十年代。

Yeah. An eighties Juno synth, and I think a Lindrum programmed drum Yeah. So the opening eighties new wave music, but they're not gonna stay there for very long. Let's go further back in time into the seventies with this sort of rock DI guitar in the instrumental section.

我觉得那段摇滚吉他也在歌曲里承担了某种修辞功能。哦。因为它完美体现了那种男性原始美学。就像，摇滚独奏。是的。

Well, I feel like that rock guitar is doing some rhetorical work in the song as well. Oh. Because it epitomizes that male caveman aesthetic. Like, rock solo. Yes.

没错。太棒了。狂飙。对。

Yeah. So good. Shred. Yes.

好。现在我意识到副歌的伴奏也在做类似的事情，因为我听到了一个非常特别的音乐致敬。那种节奏。那种奔腾的节奏。嗨嗬，银驹驰骋。

Okay. Now, I'm realizing that the backing track of the chorus is doing the same kind of thing because I'm hearing a really particular musical nod. That rhythm. That sort of galloping rhythm. Hi ho, silver away.

这让你想起

Does it remind

你能联想到什么吗？比如一匹奔腾的骏马。或者，哦，

you of anything? Like a galloping horse. How about Oh,

那些‘回来，回来’的节奏和节拍如何，与我们在《Man Child》中听到的一模一样。

How about those get back, get back, same exact rhythm and hits that we're hearing in Man Child.

也许吧。不过我认为你也可以将其与哈特乐队的《Barracuda》相比较，那是由威尔逊姐妹领衔的。所以取决于你的解读方向，你可以将其视为对男性摇滚崇拜的否定，或是萨布丽娜·卡彭特借过去女性摇滚之神的力量来击败无能的男性。

Perhaps. Though I'd also say you could compare it to Barracuda by Hart, which is fronted by the Wilson sisters. So depending on where you wanna go, you can either read it as a repudiation of male rock adulation or Sabrina Carpenter channeling women rock gods of the past to vanquish incompetent men.

好吧。《Get Back》是一首关于愤懑不满的歌，《Barracuda》则是关于在关系中重夺主导权。所以她们运用了一些空洞的隐喻。然而，她还没完。因为这些隐喻或许是为了提醒我们那些最吵闹、最愚蠢、最自负的男性巨婴。嗯哼。

Okay. So Get Back, a song about seething resentment, Barracuda about reclaiming a power position in a relationship. So they're working with some Hollow references. And yet, she's not done. Because if these references are there to maybe remind us of the ruckest, male, idiot, egotistical man child Uh-huh.

她将带我们进入一个她感到非常自在的不同音乐领域。听听结尾部分。这里有乡村音乐的鼻音，有原声吉他、班卓琴、小提琴。想想我们走了多远。

She's gonna bring us into a different musical domain where she feels very comfortable. Check out the outro. We got country twang. We've got acoustic guitar, banjo, fiddle. Think of how far we have come.

我们从八十年代的合成器浪潮，穿越到我最喜欢的流行音乐史文本中所谓的‘公鸡摇滚’（指华丽摇滚），再到乡村流行乐。是的。在这首关于某个愚蠢男性巨婴的歌里，我们经历了漫长的旅程。

We have gone from a eighties synth wave through what is referred to in my favorite texts about pop history major labels Mhmm. As cock rock to country bop. Yeah. We have traveled a long way in this song about some stupid man child.

但正是这一点让这首歌不仅仅是对男性自满的愤怒控诉。

But that's what makes the song more than just seething indictment of male complacency.

是的。

Yes.

其音乐复杂性反映了歌词的复杂性，她也在自我控诉，因为她情不自禁地被这些无能的男人所吸引。没错。正是这种情节上的微妙转折最终让这首歌引人入胜。

Its musical complexity reflects a lyrical complexity where she's also indicting herself because she can't help but be swept up by these Yeah. Incompetent men. Right. Having that wrinkle to the story is ultimately what makes the song engaging, I think.

我觉得这一点在过渡段表现得最为明显。

I feel like that comes across most clearly in the bridge.

不是我选择了他们。阿门。嘿，伙计。

I'm not choosing them. Amen. Hey, man.

太有趣了。太巧妙了。

It's so fun. It's so clever.

她是共犯。没错。如果她不是，效果就不会这么好。

She's complicit. Right. If she wasn't, it wouldn't be as effective.

没错。我就喜欢我的男人都无能，我发誓是他们选择了我。不是我选择了他们。简直像祈祷词一样说出来。阿门。

Right. I like my men all incompetent, and I swear they choose me. I'm not choosing them. Almost said as like a prayer. Amen.

哦，就是那种你会觉得‘没人写过这样的词，但他们本该写’的歌词。阿门。嘿，老兄。咱们言归正传吧。对。

Oh, just one of those lines you're like, don't think anyone's ever written this, and they should have. Amen. Hey, man. So let's get down to business. Yeah.

这首歌真正想传达什么？有人说这是关于她那个无聊的前任明星男友的。

What is the real message of this song? Some are saying that it's about her last boring celebrity boyfriend.

确实。我最近没关注娱乐新闻，所以不清楚。但我一直对把私生活和歌词内容一对一挂钩的说法持怀疑态度，不过嘛。

Sure. I haven't been paying attention to the entertainment news, so I couldn't tell you. Always skeptical of one to one relationships between personal life and song lyrics, but Yeah.

还有些人对这首歌和专辑营销很愤怒。社交媒体上有粉丝说她是在迎合男性凝视，部分原因是专辑封面极具暗示性。对。那个有点顺从意味的性感形象。但我觉得如果逆向思考，这首歌的力量才能真正显现。这其实是首俏皮搞怪的歌。

Others are incensed about this song and album rollout. Some fans on social media are saying that she's playing into the male gaze, partially due to an album cover, which is very suggestive Yeah. And sort of in a submissive sexualized image. But I think the song's power really comes through when you think about it in the inverse. This is a playful silly song.

就像在说：巨婴，滚出我的生活。为什么我还总让你回来？求你离开吧。反过来就完全说不通了。

It's like, man child, get out of my life. Why do I keep inviting you back in? Please get out of my life. It doesn't really work the other way around.

啊，要是从男性视角写首关于无能女性的歌。

Ah, a song from a man's perspective about an incompetent woman.

噢，我就爱我那个蠢金发妞。光是说出‘蠢金发’这个词

Oh, I just love my dumb blonde. I mean, even saying the word dumb blonde

不喜欢

is Didn't like

太老套了。快从

so dated. Get out of

这里出去。

here.

行不通。她通过选择这种傻瓜式的夸张形象来宣示自主权。是的，某种程度上，就像在说，通过我精妙的歌曲创作，通过我将带你经历的音乐之旅，我很乐意成为这段关系中更聪明的一方。即便有时这对我并无益处。

Doesn't work. She's claiming agency by choosing this sort of nitwit caricature. Yeah. In some ways, sort of saying like, through my clever songwriting, through this journey that I'm gonna take you on musically, I'm happy being the smarter person in the relationship. Even if it sometimes doesn't serve me.

这是对父权制本身的评论，因为这种权力关系亟需被颠覆——当男人唱着关于金发无脑女的歌时，不过是在加剧现有的不平等。没错。所以她在这里进行了极具深度的自我 reclaimation，同时也承认了...是的...她自己的一些脆弱。

It's a comment on patriarchy itself because this power relationship begs to be subverted in a way that a man singing about a dumb blonde is just exacerbating an existing inequity. Yeah. So there's a really rich reclamation here even as she's also acknowledging Yeah. Some frailty on her side.

事实证明，这种利用'蠢金发女郎'叙事的糟糕男性传统已延续百年，我们将在广告回来后彻底解构它。

And it turns out that cascading shitty men who use the dumb blonde narrative is a century old tradition that we're gonna break down right after the break.

这里是Vox出品的《今日解读》，我是Vox的肖恩·拉莫斯。我即将成为一个女儿的父亲，而我爸爸对此非常兴奋，因为他一直想要个女儿。他原本希望我是个女孩——关于这个话题我们就聊到这里。但前几天，他发给我一段视频。一个女孩唱歌的YouTube短视频。

Today explained from Vox, Sean Ramos from Vox. I'm soon to be the father of a daughter, and my dad's pretty excited about that because he always wanted a daughter. He wanted me to be a girl, and that's all the time we have to talk about that. But the other day, he sent me a video. A YouTube short of a girl singing.

视频标题是《12岁女孩为英雄父亲献唱》，他说希望有朝一日孙女也能学会这首歌。但视频处处透着不对劲——首先女孩看起来只有6岁而非12岁。简介写着‘父亲在意外发生前教给女儿的暖心歌曲’。什么意外？

It was titled 12 year old sings for hero dad, and he said, hope my granddaughter learns this song one day. But nothing about this video seemed right. For starters, the girl looks like she's six and not 12. The description reads the heartwarming song that the father taught his daughter before the accident. What accident?

口型对不上，人群镜头和打光都完美得不真实。所以这只能是AI生成的垃圾内容。我回复父亲说这视频是人工智能伪造的，之后我们就再没说过话。开个玩笑。

The mouth movements don't line up. The shots of the crowd, the lighting, everything is too perfect. And that's why it had to be AI slop. I wrote back to my dad, this video is unfortunately artificial intelligence, and we haven't talked since. Just kidding.

但我父亲不是唯一被AI垃圾内容欺骗的人。你们很多人都是，很快我们所有人都会加入这个行列，因为人类正步入AI垃圾时代。详情请收听《今日解说》节目。

But my dad's not the only one getting duped by AI slop. A lot of you are, and pretty soon the rest of us will join you because we are in our AI slop era. Hear all about it on Today Explained.

到目前为止，你对自己的无能有什么新认知吗，内特？

So far, what have you learned about your own incompetence, Nate?

倒没什么新鲜发现，无非是确认了自己无能、情感迟钝、过度依赖母亲形象，而且很可能对自己享有的特权浑然不觉。

I mean, nothing I didn't already know, but that I'm helpless, emotionally out of touch, overly reliant on mother figures, and probably blissfully unaware of my own privilege in the world.

我现在收费每小时

I'm charging $200 an

200美元，先说清楚。这个价格应该还算合理。

hour right now, just to be clear. It probably seems reasonable.

事实证明，我认为我们还有很多需要学习的地方，不仅是从萨布丽娜·卡彭特身上，还包括在她之前许多描写男性无能的女性作家。而巅峰之作，堪称鼻祖的，当属多莉·帕顿在她的歌曲《金发傻妞》中的表现。

Well, turns out that I think there's a lot more that we have to learn, not just from Sabrina Carpenter, but from the many women who've written about male incompetence before her. And the pinnacle, the OG, has gotta be Dolly Parton in her song Dumb Blonde.

当你离开时，你以为我会

When you left, you thought I'd

引用多莉的话确实恰如其分。原因有很多，包括多莉和萨布丽娜曾合唱过一版《求求你》，这首歌由同一批人创作——萨布丽娜、艾米·艾伦和杰克·安东诺夫。

And it's appropriate to invoke Dolly Yeah. For so many reasons. Including that Dolly and Sabrina dueted on a version of Please Please Please that was written by the same folks, Sabrina, Amy Allen, Jack Antonoff.

所以

So

萨布丽娜深知她所涉及的主题。她与多莉·帕顿是朋友。她在唤起这种金发傻妞的形象，而多莉在其整个职业生涯中，既参与塑造又颠覆了这一形象。歌词里就直白地写道：别因为我是金发。

Sabrina knows the material that she's working with. She's friends with Dolly Parton. And she is evoking this idea of the dumb blonde that in many ways, Dolly has both helped create and subvert throughout her entire career. I mean, says it right there in the verse. Just because I'm blonde.

就以为我傻，因为这个金发傻妞可不好骗。多莉的职业生涯大多在演绎这种叙事。当被问及对金发傻妞笑话的感受时，她说：我不觉得被冒犯，因为我知道自己不傻，也知道自己并非金发。她写了本书叫《不傻也不金发的多莉与对话》。不过正如我所说，这种金发傻妞的刻板印象其实可以追溯到一百年前。

Don't think I'm dumb because this dumb blonde ain't nobody's fool. Dolly spends much of her career playing into this narrative. When she's asked about how she feels with dumb blonde jokes, she says, I'm not offended by all the dumb blonde jokes because I know I'm not dumb, and I also know that I'm not blonde. She wrote a book called Not Dumb, Not Blonde, Dolly and Conversations. Turns out though that this stereotype of the dumb blonde, as I said, goes back a hundred years.

追溯到1925年，小说家安妮塔·卢斯出版了一本书《绅士爱美人》。

Back to 1925 when the novelist Anita Luce put out a book, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

哦，是的。之后还出了续集叫《但绅士们娶了伯内特》。后来被改编成电影，由玛丽莲·梦露主演。

Oh, yeah. Which was followed by a sequel called But Gentlemen Marry Burnets. Later became a film with Marilyn Monroe.

这是历史上很重要的一部分。没错。但从一开始，金发无脑这个设定就是个稻草人。主角萝蕾莱并不笨，她利用自己的魅力和美貌在社会阶层中步步攀升。

It is a huge part of history. Yeah. But from the very beginning, this device of the dumb blonde is a straw man. The main character, Lorelei, wasn't dumb. She uses her charm and good looks to strategically move up the ranks of society.

是的。她以天真为伪装，用机智在男性主导的权力世界里周旋。那么你从多莉和安妮塔·卢斯的故事里学到了什么吗？

Yeah. She uses her wit disguised as naivete to work up through the world of male power. So are you taking any lesson away from Dolly and Anita Luce?

学到了。我意识到金发无脑的刻板印象有多普遍。我是说，我小时候孩子们会讲金发女郎的笑话，比如在课间休息时。对吧。

I am. I'm I'm realizing how pervasive the dumb blonde myth is. I mean, when I was growing up, kids would tell blonde jokes, like Yeah. In the during recess. Right.

你知道吗？你要现在试一个吗？金发女郎去看医生。她说，医生，每次我碰肩膀都疼。医生说，是啊。

You know? What did You're gonna try one right now? Blonde goes to the doctor. She says, doctor, it hurts every time I touch my shoulder. He says, yeah.

你的手指骨折了。

Your finger's broken.

这笑话真烂。

That's a terrible joke.

我可能没讲清楚。等等。等等。不对

I might not be telling it right. Wait. Wait. No

重做。不要钼化物。以下是我的领悟

redos. No molybids. Here's what I'm learning.

我认为刻板印象往往与现实相反。没错。它们是由占统治地位的压迫阶级延续的，目的是边缘化并将人们框定在某种形象中。

I think that stereotypes are often the opposite of reality. Right. They're perpetuated by the dominant oppressing class in order to marginalize and put people in a box.

我学到的另一个教训是 嗯哼。永远不要低估多莉·帕顿。我觉得没人会。你最好别。我们能聊聊其他关于男性无能的歌曲吗？

The other lesson that I'm learning Uh-huh. Never underestimate Dolly Parton. I don't think anyone is. You better not be. Can we visit some other songs about male incompetence?

拜托。看看我们能学到什么？好的。我调查了听众并咨询了音乐同行，关于男性无能最重要的歌曲是什么？而反复出现在榜首的歌曲之一是TLC的《No Scrubs》。

Please. To see what we can learn? Yeah. I polled our listeners and asked my musical colleagues, what's the most important song about male incompetence? And one of the songs that just kept arising to the very top is No Scrubs by TLC.

哦，没错。那么内特，什么是scrub（窝囊废）？

Oh, yeah. So Nate, what is a scrub?

就是自以为很酷的家伙，也叫busta（废物）。没错。busta这个词始终没流行起来，我感觉。确实没有。但scrub绝对进入了流行词典。

A guy who thinks he's fly, also known as a busta. That's right. Never quite caught on busta, I I feel like. Didn't. Scrub definitely entered the lexicon.

哦，是的。没错，巴斯塔。

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Busta.

所以，这是无能的又一形象。

So, another image of incompetence.

一个自视甚高却名不副实的人。我觉得这最终是对这个角色的控诉。是的，他自诩为情场高手，却与实际地位不符。

Someone who thinks they have more to offer than they actually do. And I feel like that's ultimately the indictment of this character. Yeah. It's someone whose pretensions to being a Lethario don't match their actual status.

我认为大多数‘Scrubs’不会知道如何使用‘Litherio’这个词，但‘Scrub’确实进入了词汇表。这很大程度上要归功于词作者凯文·莎士比亚·布里格斯的努力，他后来为天命真女创作了《Bills Bills Bills》。不仅键盘音效如出一辙——那种仿羽管键琴的声音，谁能想到破产音乐也能这么酷——我们甚至在《Bills Bills Bills》的一句歌词中又见到了‘scrub’。他试图让‘fetch’流行起来。可以说，我们正在扩展‘Scrub宇宙’。

I don't think most Scrubs would know how to use the word Litherio, but Scrub really did enter the lexicon. I think that that's due to no shortage of trying by the songwriter, Kevin Shakespeare Briggs, who later went on to pen Bills Bills Bills by Destiny's Child. And not only do we get the same sort of keyboard sound, that sort of fake harpsichord thing, who knew that broke music was cool, we actually get the scrub in a line of Bills Bills Bills. He's trying to make fetch happen. So we are expanding the Scrubiverse, if you will.

是的。确实如此。我认为

Yes. Indeed. Which I think

这个问题其实被天命真女的另一首歌《Independent Woman, part one》解决了。所以明确一下。嗯。我们没再听到‘scrubs’这个词。没有。

is really resolved by another Destiny's Child song, Independent Woman, part one. So, just to be clear. Mhmm. We don't get the line scrubs again. No.

但我们听到了‘bills’。我觉得《Bills Bills Bills》提出了一个观点：与‘scrub’相反的是能用经济独立照顾你的人。

But we get bills. And I feel like Bills Bills Bills sort of sets up the idea that the opposite of a scrub is somebody who will take care of you with financial independence.

没错。这首歌对我来说在Scrubiverse中略显另类，因为它如此直白地讲述了我的独立。是的，作为一个女性。

Right. This song to me is a little eccentric to the Scrubiverse because it is so explicitly about my independence Right. As a woman.

是的。《Bills Bills Bills》，我之前说过，好吧。某种程度上是在问，你能付我的账单吗？嗯哼。而现在她说，等等。

Yes. Bills Bills Bills, I was saying before though Okay. Is is sort of sort of saying up, can you pay my bills? Uh-huh. And now she's saying, wait a minute.

等等。我搞反了。这就像是某种内在的性别歧视。

Hold on. I got this backwards. Like, that is some, like, internalized misogyny.

啊，好吧。好吧。不。不。不。

Ah, okay. Okay. No. No. No.

是的。

Yeah.

在我的关系中，我们是五五开。是的。我要养活自己。你也要养活自己。我们都得是负责任的成年人。

In my relationships, I'm fifty fifty. Yeah. I'm gonna support myself. You're gonna support yourself. We both have to be responsible adult human beings.

这里可没有长不大的男人。

No man children here.

是啊。我觉得这首歌里的男性角色被彻底边缘化到几乎无关紧要的地步了。

Yeah. I guess I just feel like the male character in this song has been so thoroughly eclipsed that he's almost irrelevant.

这大概是我们应该吸取的教训。对，我们现在最好闭嘴。但我们偏不。

That's probably the lesson that we should be taking. Yeah. We should probably just shut up now. But we're not going to.

不，这就是典型的男性行为。

No. It's typical male behavior.

因为我们必须听仙妮亚·唐恩唱《那并不能打动我》，多棒的讽刺啊。哦

Because we have to listen to Shania Twain, that don't impress me much. Such good insult. Oh

没错，多漂亮的告别语对吧？

yeah. Such a good send off. Right?

我认识几个自以为聪明的家伙。你会想，哦好吧。也许她在说另一个更聪明的人。

I've known a few guys who think they're pretty smart. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, maybe she's talking about this other guy. Found a smarter guy.

但你已经把'正确'演绎成了一门艺术。哦，我超爱我们正在构建的这种冲突——聪明才智与固执己见的对决。

But, you've got being right down to an art. Oh, I love this conflict we're setting up. Yeah. Smartness versus needing to be right. Yeah.

你以为自己是个天才。其实你只是

You think you're a genius. You're just

个普通的老万事通。唉。那份起诉书。三十年后依然适用。好吧。

a regular old know it all. Ugh. The indictment. Still applicable thirty years later. Okay.

所以你是火箭科学家？这也没多让我佩服。

So you're a rocket scientist. That don't impress me much.

她台词里没说'哦，原来你是个有博士学位的音乐学家'。这是隐含的。我不是要打击你，但是，

She doesn't have a line that says, oh, so you're a musicologist with a PhD. It's implied. I don't mean to cut you down, but,

是啊，每当你开始有点自我膨胀时，这可能是种很好的自我疗法。听听仙妮亚·唐恩的歌，提醒自己你其实没那么了不起。

yeah, it could be a good form of self therapy whenever you're starting to feel a little egotistical. Just draw on some Shania Twain and remind yourself that you're not really that great.

这也没多让我佩服。不。我喜欢她把这变成了自己的小口号。如果你真想打击某人

That don't impress me much. Nope. I love that she made her own little catchphrase out of it. If You you really wanna take someone down

没错。

Yeah.

感觉你需要一个品牌标签，比如‘幼稚鬼’。而在这里，她只是稍加点缀，为了给人留下印象。确实让我印象深刻，这念头自童年起就萦绕在我脑海。

It kinda feels like you need to have a branding, like man child scrub. And in in this case, she just adds a little, to impress. Impress a me much. And it's stuck in my brain Yeah. Since childhood.

她的表现也相当惊艳，因为她突然切掉音乐，即兴来了一段口语独白——‘哦，你是个火箭科学家’，然后调整和弦落在‘别太自以为是’上。这就像在说，不仅你没什么了不起，看看我的能耐。

It's also like what she's doing is really impressive right there because she is cutting out the music, doing this spoken word ad lib. Oh, you're a rocket scientist. And then modulating the chords to land on don't impress me much. So it's like, not only are you not impressive Mhmm. Look at what I can do.

没错，仙妮亚，太令人印象深刻了。

Yes. Very impressive, Shania.

就像之前萨布丽娜借用摇滚语言来刻画男性无能的漫画形象一样，非常巧妙。好了，我们从萨布丽娜、多莉、TLC组合和仙妮亚身上学到了很多。但我觉得有首歌比音乐史上任何作品都更能捕捉这种情绪。

In much the same way that Sabrina earlier was using the language of rock and roll to sort of invoke the caricature of this male incompetence. Very clever. Okay. So we've learned a lot from Sabrina, from Dolly, TLC, Shania. But I feel like there's one song that captures this entire feeling better than in any other in all of musical history.

对，就是卡莉·西蒙的《你如此自负》。这是我听过关于傲慢最精彩的歌词之一。好，我想在这里暂停一下，因为必须指出她这段绝妙的押韵。

Yeah. That's Carly Simon's You're So Vain. Some of the best writing about arrogance I've ever heard. Alright. I wanna pause it right there because because we have to point out the creative rhyming that she's doing here.

人类历史上可曾有人把‘游艇’、‘杏子’和‘gavotte（加沃特舞）’押在一起？我认为没有。原来她和萨布丽娜·卡朋特还有渊源，因为她后来承认这首歌确实影射了名人八卦。这也是陈年往事了，其中一段歌词写的就是演员沃伦·比蒂。

Has anyone in all of human history ever rhymed yacht, apricot, and gavat? I don't think so. Turns out she's also in company with Sabrina Carpenter here, because she has gone on to say that, yes, there is some celebrity gossip in the song. This is old stuff too. One of the verses is written about Warren Beatty, the actor.

哦，不确定是不是这段，但据说某段歌词的灵感确实来自他。

Oh. I don't know if it's this one, but one of them is supposedly inspired by him.

没错。关于这首歌的主题人物是谁，外界有很多猜测。而她对此一直守口如瓶，这是出了名的。

Right. There's been a lot of speculation about who the subject of the song is. She's been famously tight lipped about it.

但你能感受到她歌词中那种电影般的质感吗？就像你走进派对，仿佛登上一艘游艇。多么绝妙的句子啊。

But could you see the sort of cinematic quality of her writing here? It's like, you're walking into the party as if you were walking onto a yacht. What a great line.

这简直致命。它把这家伙打回原形。听完这首歌，我可能再也没法买杏色围巾了，太尴尬了。

It's devastating. It cuts this guy down to size. Like, I could never buy an apricot scarf after listening to this song. I would be too embarrassed.

不买红色围巾。不买杏色围巾。绝对坚持黑白条纹款。

No red scarves. No apricot scarves. Definitely. Keeping it black and gray stripes.

是啊。我不会再重蹈覆辙了。我是说，我只跳加沃特舞？说到加沃特，你之前提到巴洛克大键琴很有意思，因为加沃特正是巴赫等巴洛克作曲家会融入键盘乐作品的舞曲风格之一。他们通常会创作哀歌、布雷舞曲，并把加沃特作为标志性舞曲乐章。

Yeah. I I won't give out again. I mean, I'm I'm only gonna Gavotte? Well, Gavotte, you know, it's funny that you mentioned the baroque harpsichord earlier because the Gavotte was one of the dance styles that Baroque composers like Bach would incorporate into their keyboard music. You know, they would have an a lament, a buret, and they would typically have a Gavotte as one of their dance style pieces.

所以卡莉·西蒙可能无意中也触及了巴洛克传统。哦好吧，音乐学宅的讨论到此为止。

So maybe unwittingly, Carly Simon is also tapping into that baroque heritage. Oh. Okay. Oh. Musicological nerdery over.

请继续

Please continue with

不过我想指出的是，你刚才提到的就像——我不知道生活在巴洛克时代是什么感觉。我猜大概是瘟疫横行、人们不断死亡，并不那么美好。但如今这类音乐某种程度上与古典精英主义挂钩了。嗯。尽管这未必是巴赫的真实生活状态，我觉得他主要活动场所应该是教堂之类的地方。

I I just wanna point out though that you were capturing something like I I don't know what it was like to live in the baroque era. I'm assuming like plagues and everyone dying and not that pleasant. But, the music is sort of associated with classical elitism at this point. Mhmm. Whether or not that's the lived reality of Bach, who I think was mostly hanging out, like, in churches.

没错。他当时是教堂乐长，把那些流行舞曲形式转化成了，嗯，高雅艺术的宫廷音乐。

Yeah. He was the Kapplemeister, and he was taking these popular dance forms and turning them into, like, yeah, high art court music.

明白。懂了。好，回到《You're So Vain》这首歌。我认为在我们目前听过的所有作品里，这首歌的侮辱性结尾是最犀利的。

Okay. Got it. Alright. Back to You're So Vain. I think this song has the most powerful punchline of an insult of all the things we've heard so far.

你八成觉得这首歌是在写你。

You probably think this song is about you.

澄清一下，以我愚见，这难道不有点可笑吗？因为这首歌确实就是在写他啊。我就想，他得多自恋才意识不到整首歌都在嘲讽他，还沾沾自喜有首写自己的歌？

Just to be clear, in my own incompetence, I was like, isn't this a little funny? Because like, this song is about him. And I'm like, oh, he's so vain as to not realize that he's being insulted the entire song, that he's just happy to have a song written about him?

好吧，查尔斯，我理解你对歌词的解读。但我更倾向于认为这段副歌是个陷阱——因为如果你觉得这首歌在写你，本质上就证明了你确实虚荣。

Okay. I see your reading of the lyrics, Charles. But I tend to interpret it more like this chorus is a trap. Because if you think that this song is about you, you are proving your own vanity, essentially.

对。对。确实。

Right. Right. Right.

而她，作为歌曲创作者，总能说不。并非如此。她掌握着主动权。

And she, as the songwriter, can always say, no. It's not. She holds the power.

好吧。现在我觉得对话进行到这里，我完全是在暴露自己的无能。

Okay. So now I feel like at this point in the conversation, all I'm doing is revealing my own incompetence.

是啊。严格来说，这话可以套用在你每周录节目的任何时刻，不过…确实，这次可能更明显些。

Yeah. I mean, arguably, that could be said about every week you record the show, but Yeah. Perhaps more acutely.

我担心自己会成为那种所谓的火箭科学家，试图用机敏来满足虚荣心。嗯。看似不虚荣，实则可能虚荣至极。

I I worry about being the so called rocket scientist trying to use my wit to, boost my own ego Mhmm. To not seem vain, but potentially be so vain.

你看着我的眼神像是期待我…这事无解。说服你的…顾虑。

You're looking at me like you want me to There's no resolution. Persuade your, concern.

这整期节目就是个陷阱。

This whole episode is a trap.

像萨布里娜·卡彭特那样让你自我感觉良好。但我可不会那么做，查理。哦。我不会安慰你的。

Be essentially Sabrina Carpenter and make you feel good about yourself. Well, I'm not gonna do that, Charlie. Oh. I'm not gonna comfort you.

所以我就只能坐在自己的无能和不舒服里？

So I just have to sit in my own incompetence and discomfort?

我认为你需要自我提升。听到了吗？好好照照镜子反省一下。

I think you're gonna have to work on yourself. Heard. Take a hard look in the mirror.

好吧，如果说有什么能安慰我的，那就是你不会成为我的萨布丽娜，但我有种预感，整个夏天我们都会不断听到《巨婴》。是的。所以我至少能从这个愚蠢的穴居人角色中获得些许慰藉。

Well, if there's any consolation to me, you won't be my Sabrina, but I have a feeling that we're gonna keep hearing Manchild all throughout the summer. Yeah. And so I can at least get some comfort in getting to at least be that dumb caveman character.

这将是你自身不足的持续提醒。谢谢你，内特。查理，我在想《巨婴》的结尾曲。对，班卓琴、小提琴，那种乡村音乐的颤音。

It will be a a constant reminder of your own inadequacy. Thank you, Nate. Charlie, I'm thinking about the outro to Man Child. Yeah. The banjo, the fiddle, the country twang.

它完美铺垫了《流行解码》即将迎来的激动人心、前所未有的时刻——连续一周不间断更新，五集连播专攻乡村音乐。没错查理，这是《流行解码》的乡村音乐周，我们要深入乡村了。

And it serves as a beautiful prologue to an exciting upcoming unprecedented moment in Switched On Pop history. A whole week of back to back episodes, five in a row dedicated to the genre of country. That's right, Charlie. It's country week on Switched on Pop. We're gone country.

带我去上帝之乡。带我去流行之乡。不，我也不知道。咱们再琢磨琢磨。

Get me to God's country. Get me to Pop's country. No. I don't know. Let's workshop it.

《流行解码》由拉娜·克鲁兹制作，阿特·钟编辑，布兰登·麦克法兰负责音频工程，插画来自艾瑞斯·戈特利布。主题曲由Arc Iris乐队的乔西·亚当斯和扎克·特纳里奥创作，隶属于Vox媒体播客网络，是《纽约杂志》旗下《秃鹫》文化栏目的制作内容。订阅请访问nymag.com/pod。当然，你可以在switchedonpop.com找到我们所有内容，社交媒体账号@switchedonpop，官网有新闻通讯，每期节目备注里还有每周额外解说。最重要的是，下周一到周五请继续收听《流行解码之乡村特辑》？

Switched on Pop is produced by Rana Cruz, edited by Art Chung, engineered by Brandon McFarland, illustrations by Iris Gottlieb. Our theme song is by Jossi Adams and Zach Tenario of Arc Iris, a member of the Vox Media Podcast Network, a production of Vulture, which is part of New York Magazine. You can subscribe nymag.com/pod. And of course, can find all of our stuff at switchedonpop.com on the social medias at switchedonpop, newsletter on our website, and in our show notes, where you can get a little extra debrief of each episode every single week. And most importantly, come back next week, Monday through Friday for Switched On Country?

我们自身的无能仍在迷惑着我们。启动爪子模式。

Our own incompetence continues to beguile us. Switch on pawrific.

不。天啊，那是我们

Nope. God, that was We

毫无收获。好吧。周一见。在此之前。感谢收听。

got nothing. Alright. See you on Monday. And until then. Thanks for listening.