纳什维尔漫步：斯基普·伊文谈自然在正宗乡村音乐及创作历程中的作用

我这一生能绕太阳转多少圈？

How many times am I going to go around the sun?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我这一生能呼吸多少次？

How many breaths am I going to take?

我不知道。

I don't know.

但现在的我，正带着这些领悟绕着太阳转、呼吸着，它们让我更清楚地看到，我喜欢成为怎样的人。

But I am now going around the sun taking breaths with the information I've got from that, that showed me more of who I enjoy being as a person.

它们也让我对他人有了更深的体谅，更懂得欣赏他们。

And it gave me a much deeper appreciation for what I could allow other people and see in them.

我能够立刻原谅的事情。

What I could be immediately forgiving of.

我的意思是，立刻就能原谅。

I mean, immediately forgiving.

如果你观察草原上的马，它们遇到问题时，其实特别有意思。

If you watch a horse in a field and they have a problem, this is a really interesting thing.

马会直接表达：不行，这不对。

A horse will basically say, no, this is not okay.

但如果是因为两匹公马为了争夺配偶而争斗，那就不一样了。

And if they have a difficulty, is not, if it's two stallions going after each other because they want a mate.

对。

Okay.

那种情况不算。

That's not it.

但在另一种情况下，比如对方说：‘你不跟我一起吃’，或者别的什么事，我就要动你的脚了。

But in another situation, somebody says, You're not eating with me, whatever it is, I'm this, I'm going to move your feet.

事情发生得很快。

It happens quick.

就像在警告你：我先提醒你一次，再提醒你一次，然后——事情就结束了。

It's like, I'm warning you, I'm going to warn you again, then, Hey, and then it's done.

几秒钟后，它们就完全放松了，开始吃草。

Seconds later, it's all let go of and they're eating.

它们就只是悠闲地待着。

They're just hanging out.

人有时候就不会这样，但我现在对自己，对别人，越来越能做到这样了。

That doesn't happen with people sometimes, but it happens with me now more about myself and a lot more for other people.

我其实已经把音乐放一边了。

Well, I had let music basically go.

我的意思是，我还能弹。

I mean, I could still play.

我依然在弹。

I still did that.

但当我深入进去之后，我开始理解人际关系。

But as I got into that, I was learning about relationships.

后来，我甚至开始办工作坊，和其他专业人士一起合作。

And then I began even doing clinics and working with other clinicians.

通过深入理解这种关系，我真正帮助马匹学会如何更好地与人类相处，更重要的是，也帮我们人类明白：该如何与马建立更好的关系。

Having looked deeply into that relationship and really being able to help a horse understand how to have a relationship better with humans, but more importantly, how to help us humans often be able to go, this is how we have a better relationship with the horse.

很多时候，你简直可以跟马说：‘姐妹，你知道吗？’

Most of the time, you might as well say to the horse, you know what, sis?

这都是我的错。

That was my fault.

我该给你让个道。

Let me get out of your way.

咱们再试一次吧。

Let's try that again.

也许我是在主动邀请你。

I might be inviting you.

你本该做点什么，但我得先让你有成功的可能，毕竟你是马，你不懂这些。

You might supposed to be doing something, but I've got to set you up to win because you're a horse and you don't know.

你不懂，但我真的在向你求助。

You don't know, but I'm really asking you.

我得让你明白这一点。

I've got to help you understand that.

你知道最酷的是什么吗？

And you know what's really cool?

从来没有任何一匹马问我关于肯尼·切尼的事。

There's not been a horse ever who asks me about Kenny Chesney.

从来没有一匹马跑来问我：肯尼·切尼是怎样的人？

Haven't had a single horse ever say, Hey, what's Kenny Chesney like?

好吧。

Okay.

这也不算坏，对吧？

That's not bad, right?

但它也不了解我写过的任何一首歌。

But it also doesn't know any song I've ever written.

它根本不在乎我叫什么名字。

Doesn't care what my name is.

它只关心什么是真实的。

The only thing it cares about is what is real.

比如真正发生的事，不是我以为的真实，而是我身体里实际在发生什么。

Like what is real, not what I think is real, but what's really going on with my body.

我传递出的能量是什么？

What's the energy I'm sending?

这份真实感有多强？

How authentic is it?

这份真诚度有多高？

How genuine is it?

我用身体和所散发的能量来表达这些，到底有多到位？

And how skillful am I at expressing that with my body and the energies that I give?

如果你哪天跟我一起靠近马，我马上就能让你明白我的意思。

And if you ever go out around a horse with me, I can very quickly show you what I mean.

这和我写歌的体验太像了，完全相关——因为我写歌时，和我所写的人、包括我自己，都有着这样的关系。

This was so akin, so closely related to what I realized was songwriting because of my relationship to what I was writing and the people for whom I was writing, myself included.

我不觉得我只为自己写，或者只为了别人写。

I don't think I don't write for myself and only for others.

但现在，我确实时时都在考虑这两方面。

But I do think about both of those things all the time now.

这就像是和马打交道，如果人忘了你们之间有关系，不再是一起的，马走一边，人走另一边，结果对人几乎从来都不是好事。

It's like when you're working with a horse, if the human forgets that you have a relationship, if it stops being we and the horse goes one way and the person goes another, it's almost never good for the person.

所以对我来说，做音乐的时候，我也会想着那些其他人。

So for me also, as I'm doing music, I think about those other people.

我在想你。

I think about you.

如果我认识你，如果此刻我要在这里唱歌，我会想着整个情境，想着谁在听。

If I know you, if going to sing right here, if I was going to sing right here, I would be thinking about this whole situation and who's listening.

如果你现在正在听，我想象的其实就是一个听众在那儿。

If you're listening right now, basically what I imagine is there is someone listening.

不是上百万的人在听，而是上百万个个体在听，他们可能会把生活放进我唱的词、我给的歌里，看看能不能对上。

Not a million people listening, but a million individuals are listening with the possibility of putting their life into the words I'm offering or the song I'm offering and seeing how it fits.

我能不能把自己的人生也融进去呢？

Can I get my life in there somehow?

这会不会打动我？因为它唤起了我曾经的经历——那些让我成长、让我欢庆、让我流泪、让我无比快乐的时刻？

Does that move me because it brings up what the, it brings up the experiences that I've had, where I can grow, where I can celebrate, where I can cry, where I can be super happy?

也许吧。

Maybe so.

我希望如此。

I hope so.

因为这正是我们正在做的事。

Cause that's what we're doing.

等我们到了怀俄明州，我妻子才说，我之前一直在折腾这些点子，她提醒我：你该把这些旅程串起来了。

Well, by the time we got to Wyoming, that's when my wife said, after I was messing with these other ideas, she said, you need to put the journeys together.

你真该这么做。

That's what you need to do.

于是我就只是随便做点东西，因为我不确定自己还能不能回纳什维尔，做点能卖得出去的音乐。

And so then I was just going to do stuff for fun because I didn't know for sure I'd be able to come back and do something in Nashville commercially.

所以我在怀俄明时期写的那些歌，风格跟以前很不一样。

So the songs that I were writing were very different on the Wyoming record.

里面有些特别有意思的作品，我一辈子都会庆幸写过它们，因为现在我每场演出都有人点歌要听。

There's some really interesting stuff and I will for ever be happy that I wrote them because I now I can't go and do shows without people asking me.

有时候是那些比较冷门的歌，比如《Margalaine》《Cowboy Inside》《Railroad》或者《Petroglyph》。

And it's for the more obscure songs sometimes like Margalaine or Cowboy Inside or, you know, or a railroad or petroglyph.

这些歌跟主流乡村电台或者甚至美国民间音乐电台放的完全不一样。

These things that are much different than you are going to get played on mainstream country radio or even Americana.

然后就这样，顺其自然地推出了第二张专辑。

And yeah, so that just took steps from there to a second record.

我们还写了一首特别有趣的歌，叫《Road Dog》，讲的是一只狗在唱歌，说它最爱待在卡车里。

And we had a little bit of a really fun song called Road Dog that was about a dog literally singing about about loving to be in the truck.

就是卡车、汽车，反正就是车里吧。

I mean, and or or the car or whatever it was.

这首歌特别能引起大家的共鸣。

And that hit a chord with so many people.

于是我们启动了这个蜻蜓项目。

So then we started this Dragonfly project.

虽然我们已经发布了几首歌，但整张专辑还没正式推出。

And although we have released a few songs on it, we certainly haven't released the record.

我们推出了一首叫《我想要一切》的歌，算是第一支主打单曲，不过没上主流电台。

We put out a song called I Want It All, which was basically the first radio single, but it didn't go out to mainstream radio.

它是发给那些还能自主选歌播放的电台的。

It went out to radio stations who are still able to make a choice about what they want to play on the radio station.

我们发现很多人其实很喜欢听我做的音乐，最后那首歌登上了完全独立音乐榜的冠军，因为我根本没有唱片公司。

We found out that a lot of people wanted to play what I was making, and we ended up having a number one song on the independent, on the fully independent chart because I don't have a record label.

它在前五名里待了好几个星期。

And it stayed in the top five for weeks and weeks.

这说明大家确实是喜欢听的。

Look, this was an indication that people were enjoying listening.

我于是拉起团队，身边慢慢聚起了一群人。

I went, team and began to gather around me.

当这一切开始发生时，它让我感受到一种可能性的共鸣。

When all this starts to happen, it resonates with right as far as it resonates with possibility.

我必须认真听从这种感觉。

I have to listen to that.

如果我正朝着这个方向走，身边所有人都热爱自己在做的事，相信我们正在做的，这就是我说的‘共鸣’——有时候，你就是能隐隐感觉到。

If I'm going in that direction and everyone around me is loving what they're doing, believing in what we're doing, and it's and it's it when I say resonate, I mean, can you can you can feel that sometimes you get an inkling.

那我们为什么还要在这儿浪费时间呢？

This is just why are we wasting our time here?

如果只是为了钱，那我们就干。

We'll do it because the money's there.

如果真变成那样，那我们得重新考虑，但眼下根本不是这么回事。

If that starts happening, then you reassess, but that's not what's happening right now.

所以，虽然你可能希望剪得更精炼一点，但事实是，这并不是一首歌接一首歌、一个阶段到另一个阶段、一匹马换另一匹马的旅程。

And so that I know is a little bit longer edited how you want, but that's really how it's not a journey of song after song or one state to another or one horse to another.

这是一段理解的旅程。

What it is, is it's a journey of understanding.

这不是关于我放低姿态，而是我被迫变得谦卑，不管我愿不愿意。

It's a journey of not me having humility, but of me being humbled, whether I liked it or not.

我根本不可能说：‘好吧，我从此再也不碰音乐了。’

I could not be, imagine me saying, okay, I'm not going to do anything with music now.

是的。

Okay.

我这一辈子干的都是这个。

That's what I did my whole life.

我干的一直都是这个。

That's what I did.

别人喜欢我，就是因为这个。

If people liked me, it was because of that.

人家靠我赚钱。

People were making money off of me.

就是因为这个。

It was because of that.

突然间，我的名字是啥都不重要了。

And all of a sudden, doesn't matter what my name is.

我写过什么也不重要了。

Doesn't matter what I've written.

我认识谁也不重要了。

Doesn't matter who I know.

我赚多少钱也不重要了。

Doesn't matter what kind of money I'm making.

每当我走过去，花时间跟这些了不起的动物——比如马或者狗——待在一起的时候，其实有很多相似之处。

When I walk down there and I'm going to spend time with this amazing animal, like a horse or a dog, there's many similarities.

我去那儿的时候，我就是最真实的自己。

And I go down there that's what I am.

就这么简单，仅此而已。

And that's all, that's all there is.

就是这样。

That's it.

这在某种程度上让人自由，也让人谦卑，还带点害怕，但它既是一种机会，也是一种责任。

That is in its own way freeing, humbling, a bit scary, and it is both an opportunity and a responsibility.

如果我要对这匹马负责——我确实要负责——在我们相处时它的安全和福祉，那我也同时在为自己的成长负责。但这对我们俩来说，都是一个学习的机会，或许能一起拥有一次特别积极的体验，学会如何建立彼此的关系。

If I'm going to take responsibility for this horse, which I am, his or her safety and well-being while we're doing that, I'm also taking that responsibility for me, but it's an opportunity for us both to learn, for us both maybe to have an incredibly positive experience learning how to have a relationship together.

因为只要马儿跟人没有建立起关系，它就根本谈不上真正的生活。

Cause I kept going, if horse doesn't have a relationship with humans, if a horse doesn't have that relationship, it really doesn't have a life.

没人愿意留着它。

Nobody wants to keep it around.

可马一出生，它的妈妈并不会说：‘你得好好跟这些人相处，不然他们把你送走，你就再也回不来了。’

And yet when a horse is born, its mom doesn't go, Hey, you better do good with these guys because otherwise they're going to send you off somewhere and you're not going to be around anymore.

不会，它们根本不会这么说。

Nope, they don't do that.

它们根本不知道这些。

They don't know any better.

它们只能慢慢去学。

They just have to learn.

这就是原因。

This is why.

当这么做感觉很好时，当这种邀请来临时，比如：我有个主意。

And when it feels good to do that, when it feels good to do that, when that invitation is like, Hey, I got an idea.

咱们一起做吧。

Let's do this together.

好吗？

Okay?

因为我知道这对你有好处。

Because I know this is good for you.

咱们一起做吧。

Let's do this together.

如果我弄错了，我犯错的可能性比你还大。

And then if I'm wrong, I'll probably be wrong more than you.

只要我错了，我都会尽力说：等等，刚才那是我的问题。

And anytime I'm wrong, I'm going to do my best to go, Okay, wait, wait, that was my fault.

我一点都没给你压力。

I'm putting no pressure on you.

咱们再试一次好吗？

Please let's do that again.

你想想，要是换作是你呢？

So imagine that in a person's place, right?

你这么体贴，因为我一直在说个不停。

Let's say you're so kind, because I'm sitting here talking so much.

我知道这正是你想要的，你也愿意让我这么说，对吧？

I know that's what you want and you're letting me, right?

如果我事后想，哎，下次我们再做这事的时候，我是不是说得太多了？

If I go, Oh, right, next time we do it, did I talk too much?

也许吧。

Maybe so.

但如果真是这样，我希望自己能主动说：你知道吗？

But if I did, what I'd want to handle is I would want to say, You know what?

不好意思，我一下子说了太多话。

Sorry, I talk too much all at the same time.

我本可以做得更妥当一些的。

That really wasn't as skillful as I could have done that.

我再试一次。

Let me try that again.

我们再来一次吧。

Let's try that again.

我知道我能做得更好。

I know I can do better.

这样能避免很多可能在我们之间产生的负面情绪。

That will take away a lot that could have manifested between us that could have been negative.

我这话说得有点突然，对吧？

And this is a random thing I'm saying, right?

马身上经常会出现这种情况。

Happens all the time with a horse.

不行，我们再来一次。

Just Nope, let's try it again.

把这一切都放下。

Let the whole thing go.

我们重新来一遍。

Let's do it again.

当感觉对了，我们俩都会知道。

And when it feels good, we'll both know.

下次在任何关系中再遇到这种情况，如果你能很快意识到自己做错了，其实本可以处理得更妥当。

And the next time it comes up in any relationship, I feel if you can realize quickly you made a mistake, you really could have done it more skillfully.

你一跟对方这么说，我相信他们马上就能对上号。

Minute you say that to a person, I believe they'll see themselves in it.

如果你真诚，就会觉得：我刚才真够笨的。

If you're authentic, you go, that was so unskillful of me.

明白了。

Okay.

不管怎样，我提高了嗓门。

Whatever it is, I raised my voice.

我用了本不该说的话。

I used language I shouldn't have used.

情况可能更糟，甚至我自己都没意识到。

Can be worse than that can be, or I didn't even see that.

我真的非常抱歉。

I am so sorry.

让我再试一次。

Let me do.

我可以做得更妥当得多。

I can do that way more skillfully.

你不该受到这样的对待。

You didn't deserve that.

再给我一次机会吧。

Give me another shot.

他们几乎都会答应你。

They'll almost always let you.

所以我们又回到音乐上来了。

So now we're back to music.

我现在就在这儿。

So here I am.

我当初想当个艺术家。

I wanted to be an artist.

他们不让我删掉我想删的歌。

They wouldn't let me cut the songs I wanted to cut.

现在我年纪大了。

Now I'm older.

有些人甚至说我的嗓音更好了。

Some people even say my voice is better.

我不确定。

I don't know.

这不一样了。

It's different.

这点没错。

That's for sure.

我对感情的看法确实变了。

The way I look at relationships is certainly different.

我提供音乐的方式也不同了，但这里面凝聚了我多年来对一项真正信奉的技艺的投入。

And the way I offer music is different, but it does have all this time that I've spent working on a craft that I really believe in.

我们制作唱片的方式也有了新的思路。

And there are new ways to think about the way we make records.

人们对音乐的关注方式也呈现出不同的趋势。

And there's a different sort of spectrum of the way people pay attention to music.

我知道自己一定会在作品里藏些彩蛋，这点毫无疑问。

And one thing I know about me is there's going to be Easter eggs, no doubt.

明白了。

Okay.

我写的每一首歌都不会藏着什么彩蛋。

There's not a song I'm going to write.

它不会故意埋什么隐藏线索。

It's not going to have some kind of Easter egg.

如果你再听一遍，我希望你能发现一些第一次没注意到的东西。

And if you listen to it a second time, I'm hoping you'll find something you didn't find the first time.

但同时，我也能用别人做不到的方式表达，这让我既能当一个写歌的艺术家，也能当一个唱歌的艺术家。

But also there's the opportunity for me to say it differently than anyone else, which allows me to be both an artist as a writer and an artist as a singer.

对我来说，所谓艺术家，就是我在吉他上表达自我的方式。

By, for me, when I say artist, my artistic voice is how I express myself on the guitar.

我一辈子都是这样做的。

Have done that my whole life.

我都想不起来什么时候不是这样了。

I don't remember when I didn't.

我唱歌的方式，还有我唱歌的风格——我说的不是选了什么音符，而是我从哪里汲取灵感？

How I sing and that and by how I sing, I'm not talking about the notes that I choose so much as what's the well I'm drawing from?

情感的源泉是什么？

What's the emotional well?

不管是欢乐、浪漫、有力、恐惧、悲伤，还是极度开心，我到底在汲取什么？

Whether that's fun, whether it's romantic, whether it's powerful, whether it's scary, whether it's sad, whether it's ultra happy, where am I drawing from?

这也同样是一种艺术表达方式。

And that is an artistic voice in the same way.

它会决定我如何创作一首歌。

It will be a way that I write something.

嘿，老头儿，你听得到吗？

Hey old man, are you listening?

这是这首歌的第一句。

It's the first line of a song.

如果没人明白这句话的意思，我希望他们会想：他这是在跟谁说话？

If nobody knew what that is, I'm hoping they go, Is he talking to?

这到底是什么意思？

What is that?

我们来听下一句。

Let's listen to the next line.

你听到了吗？

Are you listening?

我知道我这一生犯过不少错。

I know my life's been full of sin.

我可能没得选，也没机会进去。

I probably got no choice, no chance of getting in.

我不认识谁没想过：算了，就这样吧。

I don't know anyone who hasn't thought, Okay, that's it.

我是进不了天堂的。

I'm not getting into heaven.

如果你还相信有天堂的话。

If you think there's a heaven.

这话有点调侃，但我相信说的就是我们所有人。

It's a little tongue in cheek, but I believe it's all of us.

我觉得，我终于开始有机会被听见了。

And I think that I'm starting to be given an opportunity to be heard.

这我就心满意足了。

And that's all I can ask for.

这我就心满意足了。

That's all I can ask for.

最棒的是，做完这件事之后——虽然做起来有点吓人，毕竟要跟别人不一样，要有点不一样。

And the great thing is that after doing that, which is a bit scary to do, to do it different than other people, to do it a little different.

这才真正称得上是艺术家。

That's how we are actually artists.

我觉得，这才让我们不是复制品。

Think that's how we're not clones.

这才是艺术家，需要冒险，但求求你，给我一次机会去做吧。

That's how we're artists, and it takes a chance, but man, give me a chance to do it.

突然间，因为有人在听，我整个人都飘起来了。

Now all of a sudden I'm high as a kite because people are listening.

人们都在说：嘿，你听过这个吗？

People are going, Hey, have you heard this?

你一定要听听这个。

You should hear this.

听众数量开始增长，越来越多的人播放这首歌，我也上了更多像这样的优质播客。

The numbers start to grow and more people play the song and I get on more awesome podcasts like this.

这正是我所求的。

And that's all I can ask.

这正是我所求的。

That's all I can ask for.

是的。

Yeah.

太美了。

That's beautiful.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢你分享你的故事和经历，我真的很感动。

I love thank you for sharing your story and your journey.

我特别喜欢你讲的马和人之间的那种联结，以及它如何帮助你更好地理解人与人之间的关系。

And I love perspective of between a horse and human connection and how that helps you be more connected with humans.

就像你说的，我们在骑马或者创作音乐的时候，总得有些东西能触动我们。

And, you know, like you said, we have to have something to draw from when we're riding or doing music.

如果你一直处于一种掏空的状态，什么都提不起劲，那其实是个明显的信号，说明你该换个环境了。

And if you're in a headspace or place where you can't draw anything anymore, that's definitely a a good way to realize that maybe you need to put yourself in a different place.

对你来说，那个转折点就是去了怀俄明，重新贴近自然，也正是在那里，你找回了创作的灵感。

And for you, that was going to Wyoming, be more connected to nature, and that's where you found more inspiration to draw from.

当然，你取得这么多成就之后，只是需要暂时离开纳什维尔喘口气，现在又重新开始发布新音乐了。

And, of course, with all the success you had, you were just in a place where you needed a little break from Nashville, and now you're releasing more music again.

我们马上回来，继续收听《Takin’ A Walk Nashville》播客。

We'll be right back with more of the Takin' A Walk Nashville podcast.

昨晚，一个误判彻底改变了比赛的走向。

Last night, a blown call changed the game.

今天早上，全网都炸了。

This morning, the Internet lost its mind.

热门话题刷屏，各种观点满天飞，可就是没人说清楚到底发生了什么。

Highlights are trending, opinions are flying, and nobody's telling you exactly what happened.

这就是《Sports Slice》的用武之地。

That's where Sports Slice comes in.

我是蒂姆博。

I'm Timbo.

每期节目，我们都拨开迷雾，拆解关键回合、争议事件，以及新闻背后的那些故事。

Every episode, we're cutting through the noise, breaking down the plays, the controversies, and the stories behind the headlines.

我们直接找当事人，听运动员亲口讲更衣室里的事、他们的真实反应——那些没人能听到的细节：笑声、戏剧性时刻、胜利的瞬间，那些根本不会出现在集锦里的真实片段。

We go straight to the source, the athletes themselves, their locker room stories, their reactions, the stuff nobody gets to hear, the laughs, the drama, the triumphs, the moments that never make the highlight real.

从病毒式传播的瞬间，到历史性比赛；从压哨绝杀，到争议判罚，我们都帮你理清来龙去脉，提供背景，回答大家最想问的问题。

From viral moments to historic games, from buzzer beaters to controversial calls, we break it down, give you context, and ask the questions everybody wants answered.

《Sports Slice》带你贴近赛场，用亲历者的故事，还原最真实的体育世界。

Sports Slice brings you closer to the action with stories told by the people who live them.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《Sports Slice》。

Listen to Sports Slice on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

想了解更多内容，请关注 Timbo Slice Life 12 和 TikTok 播客网络在 TikTok 上的账号。

And for more, follow Timbo slice life 12 and the TikTok podcast network on TikTok.

生活总会抛给你各种大小不一的困难。

Life throws hurdles big and small.

关键在于，你该怎么去克服它们？

The question is, how do you conquer them?

在《Hurdle with Emily Abadi》这档节目里，我们会和体育与健康领域最鼓舞人心的女性对话——职业运动员、教练、奥运冠军，聊聊那些塑造了她们的挑战，以及支撑她们一路前行的心态。

On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going.

比如 WNBA 的明星凯特·马丁，还有崭露头角的冰球新星莱拉·爱德华兹。

From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards.

男孩能做的事，我真不明白为什么女孩就不能做。

If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't.

我从来就不懂这种说法。

Like, I've never understood that.

我真是想不通，完全没法理解。

Like, it didn't sense in my brain.

身处一个没人和你长相相似的环境确实不容易，但千万别觉得自己不属于那里。

It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong.

别因为这个就放弃去做这件事。

Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.

还有奥运冠军加比·托马斯和凯蒂·莱德茨基。

And Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecky.

能拿着金牌给别人看，看到他们脸上瞬间绽放的笑容，这对我来说意义非凡。

The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me.

正是这份感动，让我想要赢得更多的金牌。

And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals.

在我们这个层级、这种规模下，能在全世界面前失败，其实也是一种能力。

At our level, at this scale, like, being able to fail in front of the entire world.

我什么都能做到。

Like, I can do anything.

我真的什么都能做到。

I can, like, I can do anything.

韧性不仅仅关乎胜利。

Because resilience isn't just about winning.

即使很难，也要坚持出现。

It's about showing up even when it's hard.

收听艾米莉·阿巴迪的《跨栏》节目，可在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客或你常用的播客平台收听。

Listen to hurdle with Emily Abadi on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

本节目由美国运通赞助，是 iHeart 女性体育的创始合作伙伴。

Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart women's sports.

欢迎来到我的新播客《跌倒中学习》，我是主持人，也是你最爱的心理咨询师基尔·盖恩斯。

Welcome to my new podcast, learn the hard way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keir Gaines.

值此心理健康意识月之际，我将分享自己十多年在心理健康领域的工作经验，以及与众多杰出嘉宾的对话。

And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests.

我将邀请特里普·方坦和瑞安·克拉克做客。

I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

有时候我们一心追求目标，却陷在追逐里，根本没意识到自己其实已经拥有了想要的东西，还在没完没了地追，也不知道什么时候才算够，因为总拿外界的标准来衡量。

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we done enough Because people scoreboard wise.

生活变得只剩下输赢。

Life becomes about wins and losses.

史蒂夫·伯恩斯，达斯汀·罗斯。

Steve Burns, Dustin Ross.

你努力做个好人，是因为觉得这很重要，还是因为害怕？

Because you find it important to be a good person while you're here on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid?

这可是两种完全不同的动机，兄弟。

Because that's two different intentions, bro.

没错。

Absolutely.

这背后的信任层次也完全不同。

And that's two different levels of trust.

我希望你能真心做个好人。

I want you to just really be a good person.

欢迎收听我的新播客《艰难中学》，我是基尔·盖恩斯，我们将深入探讨疗愈、成长、为人父、压力与人生使命。

Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way.

打开免费的 iHeartRadio 应用，搜索《艰难中学》，立即收听。

Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hard Way, and listen now.

雅各布·金斯顿在一座与世隔绝的多妻教派中长大。

Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect.

我们是上帝在人间选定的国度。

We were God's chosen kingdom on earth.

他觉得自己生来就该成就一番大业。

He felt destined for greatness.

当一位自信张扬的亚美尼亚商人将雅各布带入一个非凡的世界时，他头也不回地跟了上去。

So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back.

法拉利和兰博基尼，私人飞机，

Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets,

还见到了土耳其总统。

meeting the president of Turkey.

我是米歇尔·麦凯，这起案件是我见过最令人震惊的刑事阴谋之一。

I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across.

当雅各布遇见列万时，事情就演变成了一起十亿美元的诈骗案。

When Jacob met Levon, this went to a billion dollar fraud.

但两个来自完全不同世界的人，他们的帝国又能撑多久呢？

But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive?

美国历史上规模最大的税务调查。

The largest tax investigation in American history.

你得告诉我你都知道些什么。

You need to tell me what you know.

有人在追杀我吗？

Is somebody coming after me?

雅各布对列万说：你毁了我的人生。

Jacob told Lavon, you're ruining my life.

在 iHeartRadio 应用、Apple 播客，或者你常用的任何播客平台收听《骗局王国》。

Listen to kingdom of fraud on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

欢迎回到《纳什维尔漫步》。

Welcome back to Takin' A Walk Nashville.

我特别喜欢那种 timeless 的歌，你写的时候根本没想到会有什么结果，结果二十多年后，你听说欧内斯特和莱妮·威尔逊在录你九十年代和迪恩·戴伦一起写的那首《如果我能》。

I love when songs are just so timeless where, you know, you write it, you think nothing is gonna come of it, and then for you, twenty plus years later, you heard that Ernest and Lainie Wilson are recording a song you wrote in the nineties with Dean Dillon, what if I could.

这么多年后，看到这首歌重新火起来，你感到意外吗？

Were you surprised to see the resurgence of that song after all these years?

那当然了。

Well, certainly.

我的意思是，谁也没料到会这样。

I mean, nobody expects that.

是啊。

Yeah.

谁也想不到会这样。

You know, nobody expects that.

结果它居然还有机会成为热门歌曲。

And so and for it to be then have a chance to be a hit.

这背后还有一个特别有趣的故事，苹果公司曾邀请莱妮录过一个版本。

And that had a really funny story, you know, because Apple invited Lainie to do a version.

她确实录了一个版本。

She did a version of it.

在这期间，欧内斯特听到了这个版本。

Ernest had heard it in the meantime.

他想把这首歌收进自己的专辑里。

He wanted to cut it on his record.

于是他就问莱妮，愿不愿意和他合唱一版。

So he asked Lainie if she would do a duet on his record.

但后来因为和她的唱片公司沟通后，她没法把这首歌作为单曲和欧内斯特一起发行，这也能理解。

And then when she sort of sort of with the understanding with her record label, wasn't able to put it out as a single with Ernest, which is understandable.

于是欧内斯特就重新录了莱妮原本唱的那部分，补全了整首歌，然后发了出去。

Then Ernest went in and, you know, recorded his second half of the of the song that Laney had otherwise sang, put it out.

现在大家听到的，有欧内斯特一个人唱的版本，也有他和莱妮合唱的版本，结果后者反而成了热门单曲。

And now people are playing Ernest by himself and Ernest and and Laney ended up being a hit.

事实上，这首歌在排行榜上待了五十多周。

In fact, it was on the charts for fifty something weeks.

你就会想，这事儿是怎么发生的？

And you just go, how does that happen?

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

因为有人发现了它，而且我们二十多年前写这首歌时确实下了功夫。

Because somebody discovered it and because we did a pretty good job writing a song twenty something years ago.

你可能会问，那当时为啥没被录下来？

You go, Why didn't it get cut then?

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

难道当时没录，就是为了等莱妮和欧内斯特后来来合唱一版？

Did it not get cut then so that Lainie and Ernest would do a version of it?

我也不清楚。

I don't know.

你让我想，我们能不能退一步，回到某个原点？

You made me think, Can we just take a baby step back to something?

你让我想起了这件事。

You made me think of it.

你让我想到一段经历，正好和你说的吻合——有时候你得换个角度看问题，就得先抽身出来。

You made me think about an experience that relates exactly to what you said, like how you look at something differently, that you need to sort of step away.

我确实这么认为。

I do believe that.

我觉得我们平时真该多这么做。

I think we need to do that a lot.

但这让我想起我偶尔会做的一件事，特别有意思。

But it reminded me of something I do sometimes that's a really interesting thing.

如果你还没试过，不妨试试。

So if you've never tried this, try this.

我练武术已经二十五年了，至少从年轻时就开始，那是我养家庭的一部分。

I also have done martial arts for twenty five years, at least, ever since I was younger as part of what my family did, my adopted family.

这是一种战士的技巧。

And there's this warrior technique.

跟着我试试，我知道这有点特别，但你真得试一试。

Roll with me on this because I know it's different, but you got to try this.

明白吗？

Okay?

你可以用一种很特别的方式运用你的视线。

So, so you can do something with your vision that is unusual.

你可以盯着同一个地方看。

You can look somewhere, just look at the same place.

明白吗？

Okay?

但一定要确保那里有阳光。

But make sure there's sun there.

确保阳光充足。

Make sure there's good sun.

做完之后，闭上眼睛，让脸朝着太阳。

Then after you do that, close your eyes and leave your face towards the sun.

保持这个姿势二十到三十秒。

Do that for twenty, thirty seconds.

眼睛一直闭着，别睁开。

Keep your eyes closed.

千万别直视太阳。

Don't do not look at the sun.

太阳不需要正对着你，只要闭上眼，让阳光洒在眼皮上就行。

Doesn't have to be full on straight at you, but just close your eyes and let the sunlight be across your eyes.

然后转过身，再看向刚才那个地方。

Then after that, turn back and look at the same place.

睁开眼后，你的视力会明显不一样，因为刚才你吸收了那束光。

When you open your eyes, your vision will be substantially different because of the way you took in that light.

你会看得更清晰。

You'll see it with a different clarity.

这正像你刚才说的，花一分钟，就能看得更清楚一点。

And that's kind of what you described right there, where you take a minute and then you can see it a little more clearly.

这过程其实很快，三十秒后就会有变化，真的会发生。

That's a very quick, that's thirty seconds later, but that really does happen.

所以今天就试试吧。

And so try it today.

转过身去，然后试一试。

Just turn your and try it.

这只是一个很小的技巧。

That's sort of micro thing.

但这么说挺贴切的：你暂时避开阳光。

But that's a good way of kind of saying, yeah, you lose the sun.

只要闭上眼睛，等一分钟，再重新看一眼。

You just kind of close your eyes and give a minute and then look at it again.

你会看到什么？

What will you see?

你会更珍惜什么呢？

What will you appreciate better?

对。

Yeah.

这挺有意思的。

That's interesting.

你现在不住这儿了，回到纳什维尔时，是不是有种不一样的感受？

Is that kind of your perspective returning to Nashville now that you don't live here?

你现在回来，看待它的方式是不是跟以前不一样了？

Do you look at it in a different light when you come here now?

我完全不会把责任归咎于纳什维尔。

Well, I don't point my finger at Nashville in any way at all.

换句话说，就像我跟你说过的，我新专辑里有一首歌，讲的是音乐行业里一个很糟糕的现象，但这种问题几乎每个行业都有。

In other words, I think that, like I told you that I have a song on the new record that basically is saying, there's a really not good thing about the music business, but it's in almost every business.

类似这样的情况到处都有。

There's things like that.

所以我能写这些，因为我亲身经历过。

So I can write that because I've lived it.

但纳什维尔并不是问题所在。

But Nashville is not the problem.

纳什维尔本身没问题。

Nashville is not a problem.

它跟过去已经不一样了。

It's different than it was in the past.

但我其实并不把纳什维尔当成一个整体来看。

But I guess I don't think about Nashville as an entity.

现在我更多看到的是这里聚集起来的机会。

Now I sort of see the opportunities that are clustered here.

我也看到很多很有能力的人，他们很在意我们听什么，比如AI的影响，比如内容是否值得传播。

And I also see some really capable people who care about what we're listening to, such as whether it's AI, such as whether the content is something that should be shared.

你说，我们到底是怎么决定哪些歌该播、哪些不该播的？

You know, how are how are we making the decisions about what is getting played and what's not getting played?

只是钱的问题吗？

Is it only money?

如果所有人都只盯着钱，那永远都不会有真正的满足感。

Cause if it turns into only money for everyone, it will never feel good.

还是有一些事情能让人感到欣慰的。

There are still some things that feel good.

我可以告诉你，我现在运气不错，因为我重新规划了自己的音乐事业，它开始呈指数级增长，已经有人主动联系我，我也主动联系了一些志同道合的人。

I can tell you that I'm fortunate enough now that I've put this my artist career together differently, and it's starting to grow exponentially that I have had people reach out to me and I have reached out to people that have that kind of resonance.

如果能围绕在我身边的团队本来就存在于纳什维尔——而我知道确实如此——那就说明这里依然有大量的东西。

If the kind of team that can get around me is in Nashville inherently, and I know that it is, that means there is a hell of a lot.

我可以说，这座城市和这个行业里，依然充满了真挚的情感，不管有些事情有多让人无奈，不管有多让人焦虑，也不管有多少人贬低它，说乡村音乐已经不如从前了，诸如此类的话。

That's okay for me to say a hell of a lot of heart in this town and in this business still right now, no matter what some things are having to, no matter how frustrating it can be, no matter how sort of scary it can be, and no matter how many people sort of put it down, say country isn't what it used to be, etcetera, etcetera.

这些观点确实有它的道理。

Well, there's merit in all those ideas.

但当我看向纳什维尔时，我看到的是它已经发生了翻天覆地的变化。

But when I look at Nashville, I see Nashville has changed dramatically.

唯一没变的是，很多人依然深爱着乡村音乐表达情感的方式，那些我们还能唱出来的心声。

One thing that hasn't changed is a lot of people's love for what country music is able, the way country music is able to express itself, if the things we're able to say still.

正因如此，我格外珍惜纳什维尔，这跟有些人对它的看法不太一样。

And so for that, I treasure Nashville, which is different than I think what some people might come at it.

这并不意味着我不能在怀俄明写歌。

Doesn't mean I can't write a song in Wyoming.

也不意味着我在巡演时不能在亚利桑那写歌。

Doesn't mean I can't be on tour and write a song in Arizona.

更不意味着我不能回来这里多待一段时间。

And it doesn't mean that I can't come and spend time here.

今年我在纳什维尔待的时间，比过去六年加起来还多，哪怕我一直在发新音乐。

I've spent more time in Nashville this year than I have in the last six years, even though I was putting music out.

我真的特别喜欢这里。

And I love it.

真的。

I do.

我在这里过得特别开心。

I've had a lot of fun here.

音乐行业里有没有哪些地方是我希望不一样的？

Are there things about the music business that I wish weren't the way they are?

当然有。

Of course.

每个人都是这样。

Just like everybody else.

在纳什维尔搞音乐的人，没有谁不希望有些事情能不一样。

There's not a single person in Nashville in the music business who doesn't wish something was different.

好吧。

All right.

对我来说，最重要的是纳什维尔提供了一个能真正支持他们信奉的艺术的圈子。

For me, the main thing is Nashville affords us the community that is able to get behind artistry they believe in.

我发现这种氛围依然存在。

And I'm finding that still happening.

这事儿是慢慢来、但一定会成的。

It's a slowly but surely thing.

有些人已经站出来说了，你知道吗？

There are some people who have come out and said, you know what?

我们想帮帮你，斯科普。

We want to help you Skip.

我是认真的。

Seriously.

只要这是斯科普·伊文的专辑，我们就想多出几首，拼了命也要推，因为这正是我们想做的东西。

If this is a Skip Ewing record, we want more of them and we will work our tails off Cause that's what we, this is the kind of thing we want.

不知道为啥，这种事没那么常发生。

It doesn't happen as often for whatever reason.

如果这种事能发生在我身上，那别人身上也一样可能发生——这说明乡村音乐最根本的东西，还有纳什维尔的这份初心，依然活得好好的。

If that's happening for me, it's happening for other people, which means the heart of what country music has always been about and what's going on with Nashville from that is still very much alive.

现在可能得花点功夫，才能看得清、感受得到，毕竟东西太多了。

You know, there might be some places where we have to dig a little deeper to see it or feel it now, because there's so much.

我们现在被太多音乐淹没了，你知道的。

We're just inundated with music, you know?

不过，我一点都没失去信心。

But no, I haven't lost my faith at all.

事实上，也许这反而让我重燃了信念，因为我亲眼看到了这种力量。

In fact, maybe it's just a renewed faith because I'm seeing that manifest.

只要这种力量能显现出来，我们唯一要做的就是更加出色地持续把它展现出来。

And if it can manifest, then all we have to do is be incredibly skillful at continuing to make that manifest.

我想写出最棒的歌，去打动那些人，让身边每一个给我机会的人，听到我的音乐后都能说：没错，我们就该代表这样的东西。

I want to write the very best I can to reach those kind of people so that anyone who's around me, anyone who gives me a chance can look at that music and go, Yeah, we're okay to represent that.

我们相信这样的音乐，我们真心认同它。

We believe what that, we believe in that.

我们相信这份才华、我的声音、我这个人、我的创作，或者希望是这一切的总和。

We believe in that talent or my voice or who I am or the writing or hopefully all of it.

人们通常不会用这个词来形容乡村音乐，但咱们就来点劲爆的吧。

And then you don't usually say it about country, but let's rock.

行了，走吧。

Mean, let's go.

来点乡村风。

Let's country.

没错。

Yeah.

所以说，从这个角度来讲，我满心都是积极的。

And yeah, so so I I have nothing but positive, in that sense.

这太棒了。

That's beautiful.

对。

Yeah.

谢谢你分享这些见解。

Thank you for that insight.

我本来想说，你总是保持这么积极的心态，这在音乐行业里特别重要，尤其能让你的音乐一直传递这种正能量。

I was gonna say you keep such a positive perspective, which is so important to have in the music industry to keep that positivity going, especially through your music.

今天先跳过我最后一个问题。

Skip my last question for you today.

我们现在是在《纳什维尔漫步》节目中。

We are on Takin' A Walk Nashville.

你在纳什维尔最难忘的一次散步是哪一次？

So what is the most memorable walk you have taken taken in Nashville?

你是说实际的散步吗？

You mean a physical walk?

因为这也可以是比喻意义上的。

Because that could be metaphoric too.

所以……

So

对。

Yeah.

我说的是实际散步，但如果你有比喻性的经历，也欢迎分享。

I I say physical, but if you had a if you have a metaphoric one, please share.

有意思的是，我平时花大量时间走路。

Well, the funny thing is that I spend a huge amount of my time walking.

我的意思是，我弹吉他已经很多年了。

So and by that, I mean that, you know, I've played guitar for a long time.

只要我脑子里有了音乐点子，对它的结构有了把握，我就可以把吉他放下，依然能琢磨和弦变化或者旋律，根本不用碰乐器。

If I have musical idea, and I have the arms of my sort of understanding of that musical idea, I can set my guitar down, and I can still work on something and work with the changes or the melody without having to play my guitar or piano or anything.

很多时候，我光靠想就能搞定一大半。

I can just do it in my head a good bit.

写歌词也是这么来的。

And so work on a lyric that way.

就算待在屋里，我也常常会走来走去。

And very often, even if I'm inside, I will walk.

我有个习惯。

And I have this thing.

有那么几个地方特别能激发创意，比如洗澡时、开车时，还有走路的时候。

There's a couple places where are where we are really, you know, creative and and we free ourselves up in the shower, driving, and walking.

这些地方都是这样。

Those are all places.

从心理上，也许从生理上来说，有人说这是因为我们每次都做同样的事。

Psychologically, maybe physiologically, they say that that is because we do it the same way every time.

你每次洗澡的步骤都一模一样。

You take a shower exactly the same way every time.

开车的时候，你对路线已经很熟了，脑子就可以放空。

When you're driving, you kind of know the way so you can kind of check out.

你不用把精力花在身体动作上。

And you're not, you don't have to spend that energy on your body.

你可以把精力都用在思考上。

You can spend it thinking.

所以我就会好好利用这一点。

So I take advantage of it.

我跟你说一个例子吧，不过不是歌名。

And so I'll tell you one that came up, but it's of not the title.

这不一定是发生了什么事，而是因为我们做这些事时能发现一些意想不到的东西。

It's not necessarily because of what happened, but it's because of what we can discover when we do stuff like that.

我们住的地方，周围根本没人。

Where we live, there's nobody around us.

每个人看到都会说：天哪。

Everyone goes, Oh my gosh.

你们社交媒体上发的照片，真有那么多山？

When we see pictures on your socials of what that you really have mountains?

你们家车道上真有大角羊？

You really have like bighorn sheep in your driveway?

真有那么多？

That many of those guys?

是啊，真的有。

Yeah, we really do.

哇，真希望我们也能住那儿。

Oh man, I wish we lived there.

我会说，好吧，行。

And I'll say, Well, okay.

那你愿意放弃什么？

But what are you willing to give up?

你愿意放弃到连披萨都不送的地步吗？

What are you willing to give up till there's no pizza delivery.

连亚洲菜都没得吃。

There's no Asian food.

连交通标志都没有。

There's no stop signs.

连快餐都没了。

There's no fast food.

得开八英里才到一条土路，那路颠得厉害，我们平时都得靠全地形车才能过去，诸如此类。

There's an eight mile drive just to get on a dirt road that will beat any truck up that we usually have to use an ATV, etcetera, etcetera, to get there.

我们就在一片荒凉中，唯一有的，就是美景，满满的美景。

And we're out in the in nothing except for beauty, beauty.

对吧？

Right?

所以我一推后门就能带着狗出去，还不用拴绳子。

So I can step out my back door with my dogs who I don't have to put on a leash.

它们本来想去哪儿都行，但我们的狗都乖乖待在院子里，因为它们就是这种类型的狗。

They could go anywhere they wanted to, but our dogs stay on the property because they're both those kinds of dogs.

不过它们会跟着我走。

But they'll go with me.

我会离开家门。

And I will leave my house.

就随便走走。

I'll just walk.

想去哪个方向都行。

I can go any direction I want.

这可不常见。

That's not a typical thing.

我不用非得去某个公园，走特定的小路，或者绕着自家街区转圈。

I don't have to go to a certain park or take a certain trail or walk around the block at my house.

这真是一种福气。

This is a blessing.

这是一种恩赐，我一开始根本没意识到。

It's a gift that we don't that I didn't even think about at first.

我可以走出去，让这些散步成为我艺术旅程的一部分吗？

And I can go out and I can I can let that be part of my artistic journey?

每一次散步都是我艺术旅程的一部分，而且它们全都相互关联。

Every one of those walks is part of my artistic journey and they're all connected.

它们可能跟无数首歌都有联系。

They could be connected to a zillion songs.

但今年发生的就是这样，这确实是事实。

But this is what happened this year, which this is true.

我带着狗出门，一起散步。

I left with the dogs and we're walking out.

下午快到一半的时候，一只亮蓝色的蜻蜓突然飞过来，就在我旁边盘旋，时间不长，但足够让我注意到它。

And about halfway through the afternoon, this blue, bright blue dragonfly literally came over and flew next to me, not for a long time, but enough time that you could tell.

就在我身边，清清楚楚的。

It was like right there.

我不知道它为什么会来，你懂吗？

I don't know if it you know, why?

我真的说不上来。

I don't know.

但它就是出现了。

But it was there.

我注意到了它。

And I noticed it.

我当时也没多想，只是觉得真美。

And I didn't really you know, it's beautiful.

有时候它们确实会出现。

They're there sometimes.

它们比较少见，但因为我们住的地方水多，所以还是能见到。

They're fairly rare, but they're there because we have a lot of water where we live.

我觉得特别酷，当时我停下来盯着看，平时可没这机会近距离观察，结果一转眼它就飞走了。

Thought that was so cool because we stay and I'm like looking at it, you know, don't usually get these lines, getting a look at them and then he was gone.

它接着就飞走了。

And he went off on his way.

我往回走的时候，突然想到一件事。

As I'm walking back, I went, Wait a second.

这可真不寻常。

That is really unusual.

这儿已经下过三次雪了。

It has snowed three times already.

这感觉更像是深秋了。

Is late fall kind of seemed like to me.

在怀俄明州，我也说不好该怎么形容，反正就是看天气有多糟来判断。

I don't know how to say that in Wyoming because you just judge it by how bad the weather is.

我当时就想，都下过三次雪了，那肯定也冻了好几天。

And I went, It has snowed three times, which means it has also been freezing cold multiple days.

蜻蜓幼虫到底是怎么变成成虫的？

Very How in the world did a dragonfly larvae turn into an adult?

或者成虫是怎么在那种天气里活下来的？这怎么可能发生？

Or how did an adult stay alive when that's not how how did that even happen?

这事儿挺神奇的，嗯，这类散步我常有，结果后来还成了专辑的名字——《蜻蜓》。

It's kind of magical, Well, you that's one of the kinds of walks that I took, but that ended up being the title of the album, The Dragonfly.

这趟散步确实让人难忘，不光是因为它成了专辑名，更因为这种事太罕见了。

So this is a memorable walk, but it's it's memorable for the title, but it's also memorable for the rarity of it.

我也说不清楚。

I don't know.

我觉得没什么神奇的。

I don't think it was anything magic.

我对魔法这类事没什么执念。

I don't have a big thing about magic.

就连和马打交道，人们也总爱说‘马语者’这类话。

Even working with horses, people say horse whisper stuff.

我不觉得这真的有什么道理。

I don't think that's true necessarily.

这其实就是一种诗意的表达，用来形容和马相处时那些很实际、很明确的事。

Think it's a poetic way of describing something that is pretty black and white and concrete working with a horse.

事情发生了，自然就有它的原因。

These things happen and this is why.

你懂的。

You know?

但这件事，我真的说不清。

But that one, I don't know.

我不知道它是怎么发生的，但它就是发生了。

I don't know how it happened, but it happened.

我回来后就说：我们要不要把这张专辑叫《蜻蜓》？毕竟，蜻蜓到底意味着什么？

And I came back and I said, I wonder if we should call this record Dragonfly because what are dragonflies about?