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好的，我们有幸邀请到了亚历克斯·卡普。
Well, we are joined by Alex Karp.
欢迎来到节目。
Welcome to the show.
非常感谢
Thank you so
您的到来。
much to see you.
抽出时间参加。
For taking the time.
你们
You guys
戴帽子还是不戴帽子？
would with or without hat?
你们怎么舒服怎么来。
Whatever is comfortable for you.
可以戴帽子。
Can do hat.
这里好冷。
Cold out here.
是不是
Is it
戴上帽子。
hat on.
很冷。
It's cold.
这是一天的常态
This is an average day
对你来说。
for you.
你总是出去滑雪。
You're always out skiing.
你你很冷。
You're you're cold.
完成了。
Done it.
是的。
Yeah.
我们快拿到滑雪板了。
We need to get we're close to getting skis.
看。
Look.
我们本该做些体力活动的，本该通知你的。
We could we let you know we were supposed to do something physical.
开始粘住了。
It's starting to stick.
是的。
Yeah.
开始粘住了。
It's starting to stick.
哦，我喜欢这种氛围。
Oh, I like this vibe.
现在我觉得自己像个新闻主播。
Now I feel like a newscaster.
感觉是的。
Feel like yeah.
这很好。
This is good.
你们差不多有八英尺高。
They You're, like, eight feet tall.
人们没有意识到这一点。
People don't realize that.
是的。
Yeah.
没有站起来，因为那样会显得
Not standing up because it would be,
像是在对抗那种感觉
like he's, like, counteract that
对我们所有人来说。
for all of us.
他，他，有八英尺高。
He's, like, he's, like, eight foot.
上次我们和你谈话时，我记得你做四分钟的悬垂。
Last time we talked to you, I think you were doing four minutes on the dead hang.
现在进展如何？
What's up to now?
50505。
50505.
505。
505.
不过在寒冷的情况下呢？
What about in the cold, though?
那不行。
That's gonna No.
不行。
No.
抱歉。
Sorry.
我们需要为这个专门留出一分钟。
We need to have a special minute for that.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
505。
505.
对于那些还没试过悬垂的人，首先，去试试吧。
For those of you who haven't done a dead hang, first of all, go do it.
为什么这很重要？
Why is it important?
实际上，很少有几种指标能准确反映健康状况。
Well, there there are very few things that are proxy indicators that are accurate for health.
是的。
Yeah.
悬垂、农夫行走、自重训练和VO2是最重要的三项。
It's like dead hang, farmers walk body weight, and v o two are the three ones that count.
好的。
Okay.
我不认为真的有人
I don't think anyone really
卧推的一次最大重量。
one rep match bench bench press.
就这样了
That's all
我关注的是。
I focus on.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，你知道的，我觉得
Well, you know, it's like I feel
只要我的卧推成绩非常出色，我就觉得我能活得下去，是的。
like I feel like as long as I have a really impressive bench press, I'll I'll live Yeah.
短暂但辉煌的一生。
A short but glorious life.
是的。
Yeah.
我不知道。
I don't know.
他们提到过这个吗？
Did they
是的。
say something about that?
是的。
Yeah.
谁想活得长久呢？
That's Who want to live a long Yeah.
当你能过一种辉煌的
Glorious life when you can live a glorious
短暂人生时，为什么要过辉煌的一生？
short life?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得在他们给你一份糟糕的薪水之前，总会这么告诉你。
I think that's what they tell you before they give you a bad salary in something
就像那样。
like that.
我当时想，其实，
I was like, actually,
我觉得就像是，是的。
I think I think it's like, yeah.
它就像是，是的。
It's or it's like, yeah.
我的社交生活非常好。
My social life is so great.
我只有一个机器人，但我很喜欢。
I only have a bot, but I enjoy it.
是的。
Yeah.
这是一种逻辑。
It's A kind of logic.
不。
No.
但不行。
But no.
悬垂很重要。
It's Dead hang is important.
悬垂至关重要。
Dead hang is crucial.
好的。
Okay.
你真的需要去练习，尤其是正在观看的任何人。
And you really need to go work on it, especially anyone watching
好的。
Okay.
你的播客，是的。
Your podcast Yes.
可能会表现得更好。
Is likely to outperform.
是的。
Yeah.
你希望拥有某种能力，能够利用这种超越表现。
You wanna have some you know, you wanna be able to do something with that outperformance.
比如，悬垂。
Like, dead hang.
对，没错。
Like, yeah.
悬垂可能是你利用超越表现所做其他事情的一个代理指标。
Well, the dead hang may be a proxy indicator for other things you could do with your outperformance.
是的。
Yes.
你知道的？
You know?
但是，你知道的，
But And, you know,
不是每个人都会这样。
not everyone is yeah.
不是每个人都有六英尺九英寸高。
Not everyone is, like, six foot nine.
你可能会觉得不需要死挂，但我们其他人呢，
You're like, you may not need a dead hang, but the rest of us Well,
我可以作弊，因为大多数引体向上
the I I can cheat because most of the pull up
杠子，你不行，你不能这样。
bars, I can't you can't yeah.
没错。
That's right.
是的。
Yeah.
我可以一直挂着。
And I can hold forever.
是的。
Yeah.
你可以一直挂着。
You can forever.
没错。
That's right.
没错。
That's right.
但当你不进行悬垂时，人们应该用新的编码代理做什么呢？
But but when you're not dead hanging, what should people be doing with the new coding agents?
学习编程有多重要？
How important is it to learn to code?
有多重要去
How important is it to
看。
Look.
每个人都在担心自己的未来，但基本上有两种方式可以知道你是否有未来。
There there are two everybody's worried about, like, their future, but there are basically two ways to know you have a future.
第一，你接受过某种职业培训。
One, you have some vocational training.
好的。
Okay.
或者第二，你是神经多样性者。
So it's like or two, you're neurodivergent.
当我提到神经多样性者时，我是广义上的意思。
And and I when I say neurodivergent, I mean broadly defined.
比如，
Like,
你们这些人就坐在这里。
your guys are sitting here.
你本可以有一份企业工具类的工作。
You coulda had a corporate tool job.
是的。
Yeah.
你本可以像，我不想挑高盛的毛病，但比如说，随便找个职位。
You coulda been, like, I don't wanna pick on Goldman, but, like, just say, you know, like a job.
我申请过那里。
I applied there.
他们把我拒了。
They took me down.
但没错。
But yeah.
你看，我确实做过一些工作。
See, I I did work at whatever.
你本可以有一份工作，那种你努力去失败的工作。
You coulda had a job where you're, like, You try to fail.
就像是，是的。
It's like, yeah.
不。
No.
实际上，也许他们不知道正确的测试方法。
Actually, maybe they didn't know the right way to test.
是的。
Yeah.
就像是，是的。
Like, it's like yeah.
他们就像是，你知道的，嘿。
They were like like, you know hey.
随便吧。
Whatever.
我不是在针对某一方。
I'm not picking on one or the other.
我只是说，你知道，他们觉得你可能就在这儿。
I'm just saying, you you you know, they're like, you're probably here.
你以为你在这儿，但实际上你可能根本做不了那种事，因为这就像坐在课堂里学一堆废话。
You think you're here because actually, you probably wouldn't have been able to do that shit because there's like it's the same thing as sit sit down in class and learn some bullshit.
嗯。
Mhmm.
然后你就照本宣科。
Like, and you just regurgitate it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这根本没什么价值。
Like, that's not a valuable thing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
如果你真的对什么有见解，并且具备真正的技术专长。
If you are actually have insights into anything and you have real technical expertise.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，你可以观察一家公司，但你实际上能看懂它，因为你了解这些系统如何运作，或者了解客户如何运作。
Like, you know, you can look at a company, but you actually can look at it because you know something about how these things work or something about clients work.
你知道，过去那些珍贵的东西，比如能做基础编码，是的。
You know, then all the other stuff that used to be precious, like being able to do low end coding Mhmm.
能做基础的降低操作，能做基础的阅读和写作。
Being able to do low end lowering, being able to do low end reading and writing.
我的天，这感觉就像奥丁降临人间，说：我要为阅读障碍者打造一个完美的世界。
Mean, god, this is like I feel like Odin came down and was like, I'm gonna make the world just right for dyslexic.
就像，就像，是的。
It's like it's like, yeah.
奥丁真的降临了。
I've Odin has come down
从我们的洛克希德公司降下来，说：你知道吗，卡普？
from our Lockheed has come down and said, you know what, Karp?
你小时候吃了那么多苦。
You suffered so much as a kid.
是的。
Yeah.
我要让整个世界都变成这样。
I'm just gonna make the whole world.
让其他所有人都去受苦。
So everyone else could suffer.
我不希望这样。
I don't want that.
但现在情况完全反过来了。
And it's like now, but it's really an inversion.
比如，所有拥有正常技能的人其实都是阅读障碍者。
Like, everybody with, like, the normal shape skills are dyslexics.
因为就像
Because, like
是的。
Yeah.
他们过去擅长且曾经有价值的能力，现在变得不那么有价值了。
The meaning, the thing they can do that used to be valuable is not so valuable.
他们需要学习的是，像艺术家一样思考，从不同角度看待事物，能够创造出独特的东西。
The thing they need to learn to do is, like, be more of an artist, look at things from a different direction, be able to build something unique.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
我认为你在战场上也能看到这一点，比如，关于战争中最被低估的一点是——文明有一些基本的核心行为，比如研发战争技术，嗯哼。
I think and you see this on the battlefield, like, one of the most underappreciated things about fighting a war, which is the I mean, there are basic core things civilizations do, like build technology for war Mhmm.
每个社会的作战方式都不同。
Is every society fights differently.
社会的每个组成部分都有其独特的作战方式。
Every component of the society fights differently.
当我们美国作为盟友时，甚至根本不会以同样的方式来应对这些问题。
And when, like, American as allies we do not even approach these problems in the same way.
让美国比任何其他国家都更具杀伤力的，是技术与其它因素的结合，当然我们对技术非常关注，并认为它发挥了巨大作用。
What it makes America lethal more so than any currently country is, like, a combination of, obviously, the technology, which we're super interested in and and and believe are paying a huge part in.
但更重要的是，二十年来，一线人员不断摸索出哪些方法有效、哪些无效，并形成了一套实战手册。
But it's, like, twenty years of, like, operators figuring out what worked, what not what worked in a manual.
嗯。
Mhmm.
也就是现实中真正有效的方法。
Like, what worked in reality.
还有人员选拔。
Also, selection.
如果你看看那些顶尖特战队员的选拔标准，嗯。
If you look at the selection of people, like, you meet, like, tier one operators Mhmm.
他们看起来和人们想象的完全不一样。
They don't look anything like what people would think.
是的。
Yeah.
这跟电影里不一样。
It's not like the movies.
他们就像这样，个头挺大，是的。
They're like these, like, these they're like this big and like Yeah.
你知道，这是因为我们
You know, it's like because we
找到它了。
have It's finding.
对。
Yeah.
我们有
We have
我们有专门的方法来做这件事。
we have we have specialized ways of doing that.
所有这些都极其有价值。
All of that is crazy valuable.
作为代理指标，从你们这里获取新闻的人很可能表现得远远更好。
As a proxy indicator, people who are getting their news from you are just likely to massively outperform.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
人们从那些强迫他们必须选某一方的复述内容中获取新闻。
People are getting their news from something that's a regurgitation of you gotta vote for one party or the other.
当然。
Sure.
而我们社会真正的问题不在于你的听众、Palantir的客户或我们的合作伙伴。
And then the the real problem we have in society is not your listeners or Palantir's customers or our partners.
而是，其他人会怎么样呢？
It's like, well, what happens to everyone else?
他们会来绞死我们吗？
Are they gonna lynch us?
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
因为，这才是真正的问题。
Because, like, that's the real problem.
这些产品，我们所构建的东西，我们的代理意味着，民主党最有影响力的人群是受过高等教育的女性选民。
Like, these products, like, what we're building, like, our our our our agents mean that, like, the most I mean, the most powerful people in the Democratic Party are highly educated female voters.
这些技术，她们很喜欢，我的意思是，实际上我在私下里和这些人都相处得很好，只是公开上存在分歧。
And these technologies, like, they love they I mean, like, yeah, I actually get along with all these people in private, there's a public dispute.
但我多次和达莉亚交流过，结果就是，是的。
But, like, largely, I've talked to Daria over and over, and it's like, yeah.
你因为一家公司不支持特朗普而喜欢它。
You love one company because they they're not pro Trump.
但这家公司正在夺走你的工作。
That company's taking your job.
当你发现你失业了，你会怎么看待这家公司？
How are you gonna feel about that company when you find that you have no job?
是的。
Mhmm.
你认为共和党会对那些不支持我们军队的产品采取什么行动？
What what what do you think the the Republican Party's gonna do to products that do not support our military?
你认为民主党会对那些虽然你投了他们票但却剥夺了你所有选民工作的代理公司做什么？
What do you think the Democratic Party's gonna do to proxy even if you're voting for them that are taking away the jobs of every one of your constituents
嗯。
Mhmm.
还说啊，人们会特别爱你，而你却会变得贫穷。
And saying, oh, people are gonna love you so much, and you're gonna be poor.
嗯。
Mhmm.
顺便说一句，我们非常爱你。
By the way, we love you so much.
我们会每个月给你一点补助。
We're gonna give you a little handout once a month.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以把这个应用到SaaSpocalypse叙事中，也就是企业级SaaS。
So apply that to the the the SaaSpocalypse narrative, the enterprise SaaS.
有一种观点认为，最先被取代的工作可能是那些现有的企业软件产品，它们没有真正创新，已经锁定用户，但将被重新平台化。
There's an idea that, the first jobs that will be taken might be the enterprise software products that exist, haven't really innovated, have locked in, and they're gonna be replatformed.
是的。
Yeah.
这些技术的作用之一是，也让在政治领域里对此类问题撒谎变得更加困难。
If you the the the thing that these technologies do is they also make it harder to lie about this is what part of the political realm.
如果某事物没有创造价值，或者没有发挥作用，或者存在腐败，你就无法掩盖真相。
If something's not creating value or something's not working or there's corruption, you can't lie about it.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且没人相信所有软件公司实际上都创造了价值。
And nobody believes that all software companies actually create value.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我的意思是，我们所有人都学过一个著名观点，那就是我们后来拒绝了的：人们教导你说，你的软件公司应该让客户感觉他们正在被服务，但实际上却被利用了。
I mean, the famous thing that we all learned was that we rejected, that you were learned and people taught you is, like, your software company is supposed to give the client a feeling they're getting laid while they're getting fucked.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你们的产品真的就是这样，那么现在你们就要遭殃了。
Now, if that's how your products actually are, you are now, it's you are gonna get fucked.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且这种事情会发生得非常快。
Like and this is gonna happen so quickly.
嗯。
Mhmm.
对于正在关注这一点的人，一个简单的测试是：这个产品，或者在我们的情况中，我们从来都不是纯粹的软件公司。
And the simple test for people who are looking this is, does this product or in our case, we were never pure software.
我们实际上更像是一个混合体，比如
We're actually like a hybrid of like
是的。
Yep.
人类，是的。
Humans Yep.
FDE、增强人类，也就是AI和FDE
FDEs, augmented humans, so AI, FDEs
是的。
Yeah.
然后是协调，以及本质上我们所说的基元，比如
And then orchestration, and then in essentially what we would call primitives, like
是的。
Yeah.
将机构的部落知识编码为逻辑，然后用它来扩展大语言模型。
Taking the tribal knowledge of institution, coding it into logic, and then using that to be extended in LMs.
好的。
Okay.
但我们不需要向客户解释这一点。
But we don't have to explain that to our clients.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道的？
You know?
所以，所以，所以一直以来都有一家叫Palantir的咨询公司。
So so so there's there was always this always Palantir consulting firm.
这一切都只是人吗？
Is it all just people?
有没有真正的软件？
Is there any real software?
我觉得这种说法已经消失了。
I feel like that narrative went away.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
不。
No.
他们不能投资我们，因为我们是一家服务公司。
They they they couldn't invest in us because we were a services company.
没错。
Exactly.
而现在，现在的情况是，但是
And now now it's like and now But
但但真正拥有这项服务
but but is is is actually having that service
哦，不。
Oh, no.
当然。
Of course.
未来会更好。
Better in the future.
不。
No.
不。
No.
并没有变好。
It's not better.
它被低估了。
It's Underrated.
这很关键。
It's crucial.
这很关键。
It's crucial.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
就像那些曾经嘲笑我们的地方，是的。
Like, all these places that made fun of us Yes.
他们到处奔波，试图获取FDE。
They're running around and trying to get FDEs.
是的。
Yes.
获得一个FDE就像是，是的。
Getting an FDE is like yeah.
就像，是的，这没听起来那么简单，是的。
It's like, yeah, it's not as easy as it sounds Yes.
因为你得知道如何管理它，把人放在哪里，如何提取价值。
Because you have to know how to manage it, where to put the person, how to extract value.
是的。
Yeah.
然后你需要所有这些增强FTE的产品。
And then you need all these products that augment the FTE.
是的。
Yeah.
那些产品是什么？
What are those products?
本体论。
Ontology.
对。
Yep.
工厂。
Foundry.
对。
Yep.
我们开发的FDI AI相关技术。
FDI AI things that we've built.
是的
Yeah.
我们能够
What we the being able
所以，业务的价值并不是一个永不改变的单一代码库。
So so the value of the business is not a monolithic code base that never changes.
而是人。
It is the people.
而是部署。
It is the deployment.
而是关系。
It is the relationships.
你如今就是这样看待业务的吗？
Is that how you're thinking about the business these days?
实际上，我跟你说的方式是，当你在这里走动时，是的。
Well, actually, the way I I'm telling you, like, when you walk around here Yeah.
他们只关心这些，根本不在乎那些东西。
They only care they don't care about any of that.
他们关心的是你能在三个月内改造我的业务。
What they care about is you transform my business in Yep.
在三个月内。
In three months.
是的。
Yep.
这本来要花三年时间，也就是说，根本不可能实现。
It would have taken three years, I e, it would never have happened.
是的。
Yep.
但这才是他们关心的。
But that's what they care about.
是的。
Yep.
那么，问题来了，你该如何做到这一点？
Now then there's a question of how do you do that?
而这正是那个骗局，是那种拼接的艺术。
And that is the con that is the concatenate it's artistry.
嗯哼。
It's like Mhmm.
选择客户。
Select client.
选择你从哪里开始。
Select where you would start.
选择以他们不会接受的方式进行创新。
Select ways in which and innovate in ways they would not accept.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
在他们根本想不到应该创新的地方进行创新。
Innovate in places they do not understand you should innovate.
要学会管理这些非常复杂的问题，顺便说一句，这不仅仅是文化上的复杂。
Learn to manage these very complex by the way, it's not just culturally complex.
这是部落知识。
It's tribal knowledge.
而这些部落知识中的大部分体现在他们必须应用的规则中，因为关于制造、医院、战争等方面都有各种各样的规则，他们虽然在应用这些规则，却并不明说，是的。
And much of that tribal knowledge is in rules that they have to apply because there are all sorts of rules about manufacturing, hospitals, war, rules that are applied that they're not saying they apply Mhmm.
还有法律，以及所有这些之上叠加的各种监管规定。
Laws, like, all sorts of regulate regulatory things on top of all that.
所有这些都必须迅速完成。
All that has to happen very rapidly.
所以你需要——不深入细节的话，我几乎参与了每一个环节中的每一次讨论。
So you would need and, like, without going into details, like, I'm in the middle of, like, every single one of these discussions in almost every breakdown.
人们根本不理解机构是如何运作的。
It's like people do not understand how institutions work.
对。
Yep.
他们不明白软件是如何运作的。
They don't understand how the software would work.
他们不明白大语言模型是如何运作的。
They don't have the LLM would work.
他们没有能在这种环境中真正发挥作用的产品。
They don't have the product that would actually work in that environment.
但归根结底，他们仍然没有说：我们要按价值收费。
And they still, at the end of the day, are not saying, we're gonna charge on value.
好的。
Okay.
机构是如何运作的？
How do institutions work?
为什么我们会拥有这些智商高达160的天才模型，能解决惊人的数学问题，却并不随时随地广泛应用呢？
Why is it that we get these genius models that are a 160 IQ that can solve incredible math, and they're not just, like, everywhere all the time?
是什么让事情变得缓慢？
What is slow
简单来说，他们面对一个测试时智商是160。
the simple version is they're one sixty against a test.
是的。
Yeah.
但这个测试并不是单一的，而是一个串联组合。
But the test isn't the it's a concatenation.
简单的算法是：在一次测试中智商是160，嗯。
The simple math would be, it's one sixty on one test Mhmm.
但你需要在长时间内通过一系列不同的测试，所以实际上是上千个测试。
But you've gotta pass differentiated tests over a long period of So it's a thousand tests.
是的。
Yeah.
因此，实际上到了第五十步时，智商就变成零了。
So de facto, by the fiftieth step, it's zero IQ.
嗯。
Mhmm.
展开剩余字幕（还有 408 条）
但除此之外，还有就是，嗯。
But then there's also there's also yeah.
我的意思是，这简直太疯狂了。
I mean, it's like it's it's it's insane.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
比如，当我听到有人说这一切都要被取代时，我就想起我们的客户，他们却问：我们能再多要一些吗？
Like, no I love when I hear about all this is gonna replace, and then I get our clients, and they're like, could we have more?
我们根本没这个产能。
We don't even have the capacity.
是的。
Yeah.
这简直太不真实了。
It's like it's it's a surreal thing.
就像，是的。
Like Yeah.
你们想成为FD吗？
Would you guys like to be FDs?
因为我们需要一些帮助。
Because we need some help.
如果你在观众席中，认真地认同美国是一个伟大的国家，那你不必在其他任何事情上都同意。
If you're in the audience completely seriously, and you're aligned, broadly speaking with America is a great country, you don't to agree about anything else.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你在外面，是技术人员或者只是聪明，那就申请吧。
And you're out there and you're technical or just smart, apply.
我们需要你。
We need you.
好的。
Okay.
美国是一个伟大的国家。
America is a great country.
把民主党的事放一边。
Put aside democrat.
把共和党的事放一边。
Put aside republican.
民主制度是决定人工智能未来的正确方式吗？
Is democracy the correct formulation to decide the future of AI?
美国人应该投票决定美国的事务吗？
Should the American people be voting to decide American.
交给私营公司处理？
Be handled by private companies?
不。
No.
美国嘛，这要看情况。
America well, it depends.
就像，是的。
Like like yeah.
很好。
Great.
所以在战争情境下，嗯。
So in the war fighting context Mhmm.
战争部，是的。
The Department of War Yes.
必须成为决定什么被部署的裁决者。
Has to be the arbiter of what gets deployed.
但现在作为公民，我投票选出战争部。
Now But as a citizen, I vote for the Department of War.
对吗？
Correct?
正是。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
不。
No.
好的。
Okay.
但我是说，我想把它们分开，是的。
But but I'm just saying so I I wanna split Yes.
国内的和国外的。
Domestic and and foreign.
因为，在这个国家，我们拥有与生俱来的权利，实际上是来自更高存在赋予的。
Because, like, we in this country have god given rights, literally given to us by a higher being.
有言论自由的权利，
There's a right of free expression,
嗯。
which Mhmm.
我们一直在行使这项权利。
We're exercising all the time.
是的。
Yeah.
这对我们来说非常重要。
And it's very important to us.
还有第二修正案，我也在行使它。
There's a second amendment, which I exercise.
我射击技术很好。
I I shoot very well.
是的。
Yeah.
我鼓励你们和其他人去了解并行使第二修正案。
I would encourage you guys and other people to listening to avail yourself of the second amendment.
是的。
Yes.
它之所以存在，是为了在第一修正案失效时保护我们自己。
It it was not it is there to protect ourselves in case the first amendment fails.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这就是它存在的原因。
That's the reason it's there.
嗯。
Mhmm.
还有第四修正案，本质上是我们拥有隐私权。
There's a a fourth amendment which is essentially we have a right to privacy.
隐私。
Privacy.
好的。
Okay.
我们拥有这些权利。
We have those rights.
是的。
Mhmm.
试图在伊朗杀害我们的敌人并不拥有这些权利。
Adversaries trying to kill us in Iran do not have those rights.
当然。
Sure.
我从未相信应该将我们的权利延伸给与我们敌对的外国。
And I don't believe I've never believed in extending our rights to foreign countries that are adversarial to us.
是的。
Mhmm.
我甚至不认为我喜欢在德国那样做。
I don't even really believe I don't like you know, in Germany
是的。
Mhmm.
我生活了半辈子的地方，那里没有第一修正案。
Where I lived half my life, they don't have a First Amendment.
是的。
Mhmm.
他们根本不相信这一点。
They don't believe it.
顺便说一句，他们从来就不相信第一修正案。
And by the way, they've never believed in the First Amendment.
他们有其他权利。
They have other rights.
那很好。
That's great.
我不会否认这一点，但我希望我们在这里拥有我们的权利。
I'm not gonna dispute that, but I want our rights here.
是的。
Mhmm.
在这个国家，如果你要告诉美国人，你正在开发一种明显危险的技术，这种技术之所以危险，是因为它很可能夺走你的工作，是的。
In this country, if you're gonna tell the American people you're building what is clearly a dangerous technology, it's dangerous because it it will likely take your job Mhmm.
尤其是如果你是白领。
Especially if you're white collar.
所以，是的。
So Mhmm.
如果你在投票，你知道，你是一个受过高等教育的人。
If you're voting, you know, you're a highly educated person.
在过去六个月左右，你的立场有转变吗？
Have flipped on that in the last, like, six months or so?
因为我觉得，我们上次交谈时，你的总体想法是，高能动性、高效率的人将继续利用这些工具在组织中创造价值。
Because I think I think the last time we talked, your general mindset was like high agency, highly productive people will be able to continue to leverage the tools to deliver
在组织内创造价值。
value within organizations.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得如果你是神经多样性人群，且自主性强、受过高等教育，那很好。
I think if you're neurodivergent and high agency and you're highly educated, that's great.
但如果你不是神经多样性人群，而是一名律师，14506号，那就成问题了。
But if you're not neurodivergent and you're, like, lawyer fourteen five zero six, that's a problem.
嗯。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
但让我来谈谈这一点，它们是相关的，不过没关系。
But let me get to this, and they're they're linked, but it's okay.
在国内事务上，我们拥有不受少数派统治保障的权利。
On domestic stuff, I we have rights that are not subject to minority rule.
比如，多数派可以投票剥夺我们的第四修正案权利。
Like, the majority can vote against us having Fourth Amendment rights.
我希望这一点能提交最高法院审理。
I want that I want that litigated at the Supreme Court Mhmm.
因为我们不是，我们的宪法并不是关于多数人的。
Because I we are not our constitution is not about majority.
它实际上是关于少数人的权利。
It's actually about the rights of the minority.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这是我们的权利。
And it's our right.
我打赌我们三个人都有非常少数派的观点。
All I bet you the three of us have opinions that are very much in the minority.
当然。
Sure.
我们至少希望能在自己家的私密空间里表达出来。
That we wanna be able to say, at least in the privacy of our own home.
是的。
Yeah.
对吧？
Right?
所以确实存在一些真实的问题。
And so so that there are real issues.
我对在家庭环境中限制这些产品的使用非常同情，尽管这听起来有点可笑。
I'm super sympathetic with restrictions around the use of these products in a domestic context even though it's funny.
外面的人，每个阴谋论者都认为，是的，这太疯狂了。
People out there, every conspiracy theorist thinks, yeah, it's insane.
你可能讨厌这一点，但你是唯一一个保护你作为阴谋论者权利的人，而这个人就是我。
I'm the only one conspiracy theorists, you may hate this, but there's one person protecting your rights to be a conspiracy theorist actually has a seat at the table, and that person is me.
你可能不想听这个真相，但它确实是事实。
You may not you may not wanna hear that truth, but it's it is fucking true.
是的。
Yeah.
也许在你妄下结论之前，先多读点书，你的观点荒谬、明显不成熟，而且很多时候很愚蠢。
And maybe do a little more reading before you pontificate on your absurd and, obviously, ill formed and many times stupid opinions.
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
好的。
Okay.
所以你是在攻击那个保护你的人，傻瓜。
So because, like, you're attacking the person who's protecting you, idiot.
这简直太蠢了。
It's, like, fucking so stupid.
用其中一个机器人来纠正你的观点吧。
Do do do use one of the bots to correct your opinion.
现在我在线上被攻击了。
It's like, I'm being attacked online now.
是的。
Yeah.
他说卡普医生是反进步主义的，因为我这一生。
He's like, doctor Karp is anti progressivist because of my whole life.
我只是在告诉你真相。
I'm the only just telling you the truth.
这些东西会夺走你的工作。
These things are gonna take your job.
好吧。
Okay.
所以在战争对抗的背景下，这些产品的首要理由必须是，现在有两个相关大国，美国和中国。
So then but in the war fighting context, and it's the primary justification for these products has to be it's it's they're two relevant powers now, Us and China.
嗯。
Mhmm.
这是一个半真半假的世界。
This is a half half not world.
嗯。
Mhmm.
最终，世界秩序将由我们或他们中的某一方来决定。
It's going to be either us or them basically deciding the world order.
因为，像这些其他国家，比如印度可能会参与进来，还有中东的阿拉伯和非阿拉伯国家。
Because, like, these other countries maybe India will will will get involved, maybe the Arab, non Arab, Middle East.
但目前，按照我们现在的趋势，这些技术正在两个地方被开发和部署。
But currently, on the trajectory we're on now, there are two places where these things are being developed and deployed.
不是我们就是他们。
It's us or them.
是的。
Yep.
而且我并不是，你知道的，我并不想伤害中国。
And I'm not particularly you know, I'm not I'm not out to hurt China.
我只是想，我认为我们应该赢。
I'm just out to I think we should win.
对。
Yeah.
我并不是想伤害他们。
I'm not trying to hurt them.
在这种背景下，你不能说我们不会做X、Y和Z。
And in that context, you can't say we're not gonna do x, y, and z.
我的意思是，我给你举些例子，当然可以。
I mean, I give you examples, but, like Sure.
在美国市场上有一些公开的数据集，我认为不应用来对付你我这样的人，嗯。
There are datasets that are publicly available in The US market that should I don't think should be used against you and me Mhmm.
在执法情境中，更多是借助AI代理和本体论的帮助。
In a law law enforcement context more than with the help of, say, AI agents and ontology.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果你不在战场上使用，伊朗显然就会用它们。
But if you don't use it on the battlefield, you obviously, Iran's gonna use them.
但你不觉得他们能上网买到这些产品吗？
But you don't think they can go online and buy those products?
是的。
Yeah.
顺便说一下，不涉及一些机密数据的情况下，这些事物与其他因素结合在一起是致命的。
And and by the way, without going into somewhat classified data, those things are in combination with other things lethal.
嗯。
Mhmm.
许多想在战场上伤害美国的人最终都死了。
Like, a lot of people who wanna hurt America on the battlefield end up dead
嗯。
Mhmm.
因为我们有能力整合信息，然后在他们弄清我们在做什么之前，就搞清楚了战场上的情况。
Because of our ability to aggregate and then figure out what's going on in the battlefield before they can figure out what we're doing.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以，我从道德角度非常支持这一点，但我也支持它。
And so, like, I'm very much in favor of it for moral reasons, but I'm also in favor of it.
我不知道还能怎么向美国人民解释这件事。
Like, don't know how else you explain this to the American people.
我们要夺走你的工作。
We're we're gonna take your job.
我们要剥夺你赚钱和掌握权力的能力。
We're gonna take away you're gonna eviscerate your ability to to to have money and power.
但我们不会在战场上保护你。
But that we're not gonna defend you on the battlefield.
这看起来确实如此。
Just seems like yeah.
那么，你知道实际上会发生什么吗？
Well, they're gonna you know what's actually gonna happen?
虽然科技界没人相信我，但这个国家将会兴起一股力量，迅速壮大，要求将这些事物国有化。
That nobody believes me in tech, but there's gonna be a movement in this country that gets very strong very quickly to nationalize these things.
首先，他们会夺走我们的钱。
First, it's gonna be take away our money.
法案说，亿万富翁都是邪恶的。
The bill billionaires are evil.
你可能没听说过这个。
You may not have heard that.
是的。
Yes.
极其邪恶。
Super evil.
是的。
Yes.
如果剥夺了他们的财富，就会帮助穷人。
And if you take away their money, it'll help poor people.
是的。
Yes.
这一点非常重要，需要理解。
That's really important to understand.
对。
Yeah.
让富人痛苦是帮助穷人的唯一方式。
Making rich people miserable is the only way to help poor people.
是的。
Yeah.
这显然是对的。
That's obviously true.
是的。
Yeah.
假设你已经明白了这一点，接下来你要学的是我们必须将科技公司国有化，他们
Say once you've learned that, the next thing you're gonna learn is we have to nationalize a techno They're
他们会引用你这句话的。
gonna they're gonna quote you on that.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，这就像他们
Well, it's like They
提到你了
quoted you on
所以，我的意思是，听起来你和达里奥的观点更接近，尤其是在早期阶段白领工作流失的可能性上。
on So so, I mean, it sounds like you're you're you're closer to Dario on, you know, potentially 50% of early stage white collar job loss.
也就是说，你意识到至少存在这种风险，每个人都有这种可能性。
Like, you're you're you're aware that there's a risk at least Everyone's probability.
你意识到了。
You're aware of it.
那你认为解决方案是什么？
Well, what do you see as the solution?
首先，我们必须——我的意思是，很明显，好吧。
Well, first, we just have to I mean, well, I mean, the obvious thing is, okay.
我们不能有任何迁移。
We can't have any migration here.
那我们怎么创造更多工作呢？
Like, how are we gonna create more job?
就像，你必须认识到，公平的问题在于，人们并不想卷入对政策制定者公平的事务中，但我们现在面对的是将决定政策决策的技术。
Like, it's like, you have to what the problem in fairness, not that people wanna be in the business of being fair to policy leaders, but that we are dealing with technologies that will determine the policy decisions.
是的。
Mhmm.
所以你不能假装这些问题不存在。
So you can't just pretend they're not happening.
是的。
Mhmm.
首先，我们必须认识到，尽管这种转型需要这些技术，让社会正常运转会很困难，但并非不可能。
Like, step one is, like, we it's going to be hard and but possible to make this society work given that transforming it requires these technologies.
是的。
Like Mhmm.
我真的喜欢这里的人。
All like, I really like the people here.
他们来这里并不是因为喜欢我。
They're not here because they like me.
也许他们是因为我的笑话才来的。
Like, maybe they're here for my jokes.
是的。
Yeah.
高质量的
High quality in
在某些情况下。
some cases.
但它们就像是
But they it's like
一段漫长的旅程，我们在这里，而我是唯一喜欢这天气的人。
a long trip, and we're here and I'm the only one who likes this weather.
天气真好。
It's great weather.
我给你带的。
I brought it for you.
但他们来这里是因为看到了自己的业务被改变。
It's but they're here because they've seen their business being transformed.
是的。
Yeah.
这种情况在美国比 elsewhere 更普遍。
And this is happening in America more than it.
所以是的。
So Yeah.
我们必须赢得这些战役。
We have to win those battles.
是的。
Yeah.
但代价将会非常高。
But the costs are gonna be very high.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因此，你必须反过来思考，好吧，成本将会非常高。
And so you have to work back from, okay, the costs are gonna be very high.
我们不能火上浇油。
We we can't put oil on the fire.
嗯。
Mhmm.
就像，你知道的，就像，为所有美国人创造就业机会会很难，也许那些成为美国人的人也是如此。
It's like, you know, it's like, well, getting jobs for all Americans is gonna be hard and people maybe who become Americans.
但关于移民，你必须制定不同的政策。
But it's like you have to have different policies around migration.
嗯。
Mhmm.
在人才培养方面，你也需要不同的政策。
You have to different policies around how we train people.
比如，目前，如果你是一个高中生且有神经多样性，他们实际上就像把你绑在椅子上，给你吃药，让你掌握一些毫无价值的技能。
Like, currently, if you're a young kid in high school and you're neurodivergent, they're literally track chaining into your chair and feeding you medication so you can have skills that are not valuable.
是的。
Yeah.
就像，随着时间推移，我们可能需要进行一场关于这一点的讨论，是的。
Like, it's so it's like and and then we'll probably over time have to have, like, a discussion of, yeah.
如果你选择这条职业道路，你将找不到工作。
If you go into this career, you're not gonna have a job.
嗯。
Mhmm.
需要就这个问题进行一次非常坦诚的讨论。
Like, a really honest discussion about that.
这些才是你很可能找到工作的领域。
These are the places where you will likely have a job.
嗯。
Mhmm.
而且是的。
And yeah.
帮帮我，什么
Help me What
你知道，作为国家，我们可能会走向一条更欧洲化的道路，在那里，解雇员工变得极其困难，甚至几乎不可能。
you know, it it seems like we, as a country, will probably head down a more European path where it is becomes very, very difficult or near impossible to let people go.
你觉得这是正确的吗？
Do you think that's correct?
意思是德国，它要难得多
So mean Germany, it's much
解雇某人要难得多。
harder to to lay someone off.
我的意思是，这确实会影响公司的增长。
I mean, I impact I mean, that does impact the the growth of of companies.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但我认为许多德国人会认为这可能是
But I think many Germans would argue that's probably
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，德国，嗯，我来回答你的问题。
You know, Germany's I mean, I won't I'll I'll answer your question.
德国是个有趣的地方。
Germany's an interesting place.
我曾经在德国做过一件事，那就是说了实话，而这是在德国不被允许的。
I did this thing in German where I basically told the truth, which you're not allowed to do in Germany.
就像你知道的，情况真的很糟糕，经济也很差。
It's like, you know, it's kinda really bad situation and the economy sucks.
移民问题完全是一场灾难，能源状况更是雪上加霜。
The migration thing's a complete disaster, and the energy situation is like compounds everything.
结果有成千上万的人真的说：谢天谢地，终于有人说了实话。
And I got thousands of people literally saying, thank god someone told the truth.
还有很多像你们这样的年轻人，正在努力创造，却感到被束缚，而你们的这种感受是完全有道理的。
And there are a lot of people like you guys, young people building things that feel hampered and and and are correct to feel hampered.
我认为，如果我们不加小心，美国的版本不会变成德国的版本。
I I think the American version, if we're not careful, is not gonna be the German version.
我认为会是绞死富人。
I think it's gonna be hang the rich.
我的意思是，我觉得会是不保护其他人。
I it's like, I think it's gonna be not protect everybody else.
会变成这样，哦，看吧。
It's gonna be like, oh, look.
这太危险了，我们会绞死富人，却并不真正帮助穷人。
This is too dangerous, and we're gonna hang the rich, but not really help the poor.
公平地说，德国的版本，比如医疗保险之类的，都是有效的。
And in fairness to the German version, like, you know, German, like, health insurance, insurance, all that stuff, it works.
是的。
Yeah.
我在德国穷困潦倒了整整十年。
Like, I was I was poor in Germany for, like, a decade.
是的
Yeah.
而且，我在德国当穷人的时候，生活简直是最好的，就像在德国当穷人，比在这里当富人还要好一些。
And, like, I had I had the best life on the Like, it's like being poor in Germany is like being better than being rich here in some in
有些日子是这样。
some days.
所以，基本上，那些提升再教育和培训的政策。
So basically, policies that lift the reeducation, training.
如果你想要效仿我们这里可以做的事情，是的。
You're so if you wanna do what we could do here Yeah.
我们可以从德国借鉴的一些做法是，德国有三类高中。
We the things we could adopt from Germany are Germany has three high schools.
对。
Yeah.
其中两类是职业高中。
Two are vocational.
当然。
Sure.
一个是学术型的。
One is academic.
更好的教育。
Better education.
更好的项目，是的。
Better programmatic Yeah.
职业型的。
Vocational.
职业培训在这里也有种奇怪的负面印象。
Vocational it also has a bad like, a weird vibe here.
比如在德国，职业培训非常技术导向。
Like, vocational training in Germany is very technical.
就像宝马工厂里造车的那些人，嗯。
Like, the people building the cars at BMW Mhmm.
或者在法国的空客，那些工作非常复杂。
Or even in the French version Airbus, like, very complicated jobs.
他们没有上大学。
They didn't go to college.
确实如此。
True.
他们上了一所非常顶尖的高中。
They went to a very, very high end high school.
是的。
Yeah.
他们毕业后没有任何债务。
And they come out without any debt.
是的。
Yeah.
这些东西非常有价值。
And that stuff is really valuable.
是的。
Yeah.
所以如果你想做到卓越。
So if you wanna Amazing.
你必须彻底改革我们的教育体系，从很小的时候就开始训练人们做事情。
You you have to completely transform our educational system and and go very young into, like, training people to do things.
你还需要改变我们的评估体系，考虑不同形式的智力。
You also need to change our testing system, like different forms of intelligence.
我们所有的测试都是围绕工业革命时期有价值的能力设计的。
All of our tests are built around things that were valuable in the industrial revolution.
当然。
Sure.
当然。
Sure.
当然。
Sure.
这就像是要把所有阅读障碍者、所有神经多样性的人都挑出来。
It's like you wanna pull out all the dyslexics, all the neurodivergence.
所有坐不住、喜欢动手或想动手的人，都应该被单独归入一类，比如：‘我们早该在你被科尔曼拒之门外之前就发现你。’
Everybody who can't sit or needs to build or wants to build have to go into a select a separate slot of like, yeah, we should have gotten you before you got turned down at Coleman.
就像我说的，这简直是浪费
And like I said, this is like, that's a waste of
你的时间。
your time.
你可以去建造一些重要的东西。
You could be building something important.
还有什么会成为良好结果的一部分？
And What else goes would be a part of the good outcome?
嗯，最重要的
Well The
良好结果中最重要的部分，就是我们要让对手明白：你惹不起我们。
the the most important part of the good outcome is what we show our adversaries, you can't fuck with us.
而且我们是最强的，我们拥有世界上最好的军队。
And we're the best we have the best military in the world.
我希望，我相信我们现在正在做对这件事。
I hope I believe we're doing that right now.
在好的结果方面，我们确实如此。
On the good outcome side, we yeah.
我们四处出击。
We go around.
在商业方面，我们进入所有这些高基础设施领域，比如医院、制造业，所有这些复杂的基础设施，并用人工智能增强它们，使产品真正变得更好。
And then on the commercial side, we go to all these high infrastructure, you know, hospitals, manufacturing, all these things, complicated infrastructure, and we AI enhanced all of them so the products are legitimately the best more.
我们重建了这个国家的制造业。
And we rebuild manufacturing in this country.
对我们来说，一个大问题，包括在战场上，就是我们的制造业还没有达到应有的水平。
Like, a big problem for us, including on the battlefield, is our manufacturing just is not up to where we have to be.
是的。
Yep.
顺便说一下，这需要重新调整规模并扩大人力，我们正在各个地方都这么做。
And that, by the way, requires rescaling, scaling humans, and we're doing this all over the place.
我的意思是，写很多这些目标系统脚本的人，他们大多是高中或大学毕业生，那些制造电池和使用我们产品的人都如此。
I mean, the guy writing a lot of the scripts for the target these people, they're, like, high school college grads, the people building batteries and all these things using our products.
这些人都是高中或大学毕业生。
These are high school college grads.
那里有很多机会。
There's a lot of opportunity there.
但我曾对德国人说过，我也想对我们自己说：德国，你们得称之为危机。
But, you know, one of the things I told the Germans, and I would say to us is we I was like, you know, Germany, you have to call it a crisis.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我们确实需要认识到，这已经是一个危机时刻。
We do need, like this is a crisis moment.
美国的明天将不再像过去那样，否则我们就会面临左右两派的极端主义。
America is in tomorrow is not gonna look like it looked at all, or we're gonna have radicalism on right or left.
是的。
Mhmm.
问题和危险在于，如果我们不进行这些改革，人们就会拿起火把和长矛。
The the the problem the danger is if we don't do these reforms, you are gonna get the pitchforks.
是的。
Mhmm.
因为那时，人们唯一能想到的解决方案就是：去针对那些不讨人喜欢的科技富人，尤其是人工智能领域的富人。
Because that then the only solution people are gonna have is, well, you know, let's go after the unlikable rich people in tech, especially AI tech.
但真正可行的做法是：是的，关闭边境，保持封闭，大力推行职业培训，改革我们的能力测试方式，以便准确诊断每个人适合的定位，要果断，就像在某些领域一样，找出新的测试方法，进行严厉的测试和分层。
And then but but then what can work is, yeah, close the borders, keep them closed, start doing huge vocational efforts, change how we test aptitude, like, so we have an accurate diagnostic of where you could be slotted, Be ruthless and, like, you know, it's it's like in in certain find out new ways to test and do ruthless testing and slotting.
然后还要去大学里走一走，你知道，当你想抽烟的时候，人们会说：这支香烟可能对你有害。
And then also go around to universities and just I mean, you know how when you, like, you wanna smoke a cigarette, it's like this this cigarette may be harmful to you.
也许我们该在大学里也贴这样的警示。
Maybe we should be putting that in universities.
这所大学，这所大学对你的投资回报有害。
This university this this university is harmful for your investor.
你知道，我是自由意志主义者。
You know, I'm libertarian.
想上大学
Wanna go to university
学生贷款可能对
Student debt may be harmful to
你的未来财务健康有害。
your future financial health.
对你个人的生活而言。
For for you and your personal life.
跟别人解释一下，你得背负一百万美元的债务。
Explain to someone you gotta have a million dollars in debt.
是的。
Yeah.
一百万美元的债务。
A million dollars in debt.
我的意思是，也许如果你才六九岁，你可以逃避责任，但我们其他人必须承担责任。
I mean, maybe if you're six, nine, and you you can get away with that, but the rest of us have to provide.
这真有趣。
That's funny.
帮我理清这个想法。
Help me square this idea.
你今天早些时候提到过，人们误解了你的生意。
You you were you were talking earlier today about people misunderstanding your business.
是的。
And Yeah.
那是什么
What's it
读到关于你生意的内容是什么感觉？
like to read about your business?
哦，我的意思是，首先，我之前用的那个部分——我讨厌它。
Oh, I mean, first of all, it's I mean, the part I used I I hate it.
但我喜欢的部分是，你本身是有价值的。
But then the part I love is and it's like you are valuable.
你的价值与人们无法理解你所做之事的能力直接相关。
Your your value is pretty directly con convergent with people's inability to understand what you're doing.
是的。
Yeah.
所以，这些技术似乎都在潜在地将一切商品化。
So it's like it's like all these technologies are potentially commodifying everything.
对。
Yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
所以，如果你的业务既不是单纯的服务，也不是单纯的产品，而是两者兼具，同时依赖于部落知识和数据，而且每一个业务都是独一无二的。
So if you are a business that is, you know, not services, not product, but both, but also works on tribal knowledge on data, and every single business you make is individual.
所以，没错，这是一个非常有价值的企业。
And so, yeah, that's a crazy valuable business.
在许多行业中，如果更广泛的商业界不理解你的业务，你可能只有一份简短的报告，但竞争会少得多，因为没人会模仿你。
In a lot of industries where if the broader business community doesn't understand your business, you might have a short report, but you'll have a way less competition because people aren't copying you.
不理解
Well, don't understand
这个模式。
the playbook.
某些东西其实是可以复制的，而我们却忽视了这一点。
Possible to copy certain, like like and and and we we neglect this.
像是，是的。
Like Yeah.
你知道，甚至在文化上你都能看到这种现象，比如奢侈品由法国主导，手表由瑞士主导，目前某些类型的战争则由美国主导。
You know, almost, like you even see it culturally, like, luxury products dominated by the French, watches dominated by the Swiss, currently certain kinds of war fighting dominated by America.
是的。
Yeah.
而且
And
人们很难消除这些文化优势，而我们的产品强化了这一点，从而增强了这种独特的差异化特性
it's like, it's it's very hard for people to eviscerate these cultural advantages, and our products augment that, which makes it, you know, augments the the differentiated specific
嗯哼。
Mhmm.
超越可通用的部分。
Over the generalizable.
而所有的价值都将集中在这里。
And and and that's where literally all the value is gonna go.
这将像一场瀑布般倾泻而下。
And this is gonna be like a waterfall.
这正是许多软件公司的痛点。
And that that's the problem with a lot of software companies.
就像是产品A、B、C、T。
It's like it's like product a b c t.
但当你仔细阅读时，你会发现这可能是你们所面对的最令人沮丧的事情之一，但同时这也是一个巨大的市场机遇。
But but but then when you read it, it's like like one of the more depressing things that you guys probably confront, but it's like a market huge market opportunity for you.
就像是，专家们在哪里？
It's like, where are the experts?
就像是，你知道的，到处都是烂摊子。
Like, it's like, you know, it's like there's shit.
就像是，你知道的，你只能希望和祈祷。
It's like, you know, you you hope and pray.
我来告诉你我现在生活中最搞笑的一件事，公司内部的人都知道。
Like, I'll tell you the funniest thing about my life now and people internally know.
几乎每天，我都会想，等等。
Almost every day, I'm like, wait a minute.
我才是房间里那个靠谱的人？
I'm the adult in the room here?
无论我去哪里，都是这样，等等。
It's like everywhere I go, it's like it's like, wait
等等。
a minute.
我喜欢，我和它就像那样，而且它很大。
I like, I and it's like there it's like and and it's big.
当你读到这些事情时，感觉很荒谬，以前这真的让我很沮丧，但现在我只想，天啊，我们居然还被当成疯子。
So it's it's surreal when you read about these things, but and it's it used to really frustrate me, but now I kinda just think, well, like, can't believe we're still viewed as crazy.
我们所做的一切都是唯一有效的，我的意思是，我不想花太多时间讨论我们去年那些所谓的高光数据，但很明显，我们的方法是管用的。
It's like everything we're doing is the only thing that's where I mean, like, don't wanna, like, spend a lot of time on our baller accentual accentually baller numbers from last year, but it's like, you know, clearly, our shit works.
显然，在那个层面上，什么都没起作用。
Clearly, nothing is working at that level.
你本以为他们会花个十分钟想想，好吧。
And you would think they would take, like, I don't know, ten minutes and think, okay.
我曾经相信并以为会成功的东西，根本一点效果都没有。
Well, the thing I believed and I thought it would work didn't work at all.
是的。
Yeah.
但我觉得疯狂的这个东西，却有着127的规则。
But this thing I thought was insane is has like a rule of one twenty seven Mhmm.
当没人觉得怎么样的时候。
When like no one like, is considered like Yeah.
但他们就是不。
And like but they don't.
然后呢，是的。
And and and and then and I yeah.
但说实话，有时候确实挺让人沮丧的。
But it is sometimes frustrating, honestly.
实际上，困难的部分是我把它看作是一个优点。
And the hard part actually is I kind of view it as a feature.
我们内部会招到这些充满热情的年轻人。
Internally, we get these bright eyed kids.
嗯。
Mhmm.
所以这太有趣了。
So it's so funny.
我的意思是，你能得到世界上最好的人。
I mean, one get the best people in the world.
嗯。
Mhmm.
但你知道，就像我21岁的时候，他们非常浪漫。
But you know, just like I was probably at 21, they're very romantic.
问题是，为什么成年人不理解这一点？
It's like, but why does the adult not understand this?
就像，但但但成年人
It's like, but but but the adult
专家告诉我，当你们不得不经历这样一个重大时刻时，你会意识到是的。
expert tells me it's like, I don't when you guys had to drop this huge moment and you realize that like Yeah.
成年人就像，你知道的，嗑了药一样。
The adults are, like, you know, on crack or something.
就像，没关系。
Like, it's Okay.
是的。
Yeah.
最后一个问题。
Last question.
你更愿意选择一千万美元，还是2012年的ChatGPT访问权限？
Would you rather have $10,000,000 or access to ChatGPT in 2012?
这是一个热门问题。
It's a viral question.
它现在正在走红。
It's going viral right now.
我必须二选一吗？
I have to choose one or the other?
是的。
Yes.
我的意思是，好吧。
I mean, okay.
我只是觉得他不需要
I'm just I don't think he needs
我觉得我不
I don't think I
我觉得他不需要知道。
don't think he needs know.
我可以可以
Can I can
我在研究生院有自己的社交生活吗？
I have my social life in grad school?
我们这就
There we
走。
go.
好的。
Okay.
这取决于你的陈述。
That's on your pitch.
那关于
How about
一个新的选择呢？
a new pick?
我们只需要
We just have to
问你这个问题。
ask you this.
你知道，就像，很棒。
You know, it's like, great.
我得拿走一些我重视的东西。
I I gotta take something I valued.
哦，好的。
Oh, okay.
是的
Yeah.
研究生阶段社交生活中最有价值的东西。
The most valuable thing for social life in grad school.
非常感谢你抽出
Well, thank you so much for taking
时间。
the time.
谢谢。
Thank you.
能有你真是太棒了
It's fantastic to
在。
have you.
我们很快再和你联系。
We'll talk to you soon.
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