肽类争议回顾，约翰·特努斯传闻四起，OpenAI非营利组织将支出10亿美元 | 饮食TBPN

你知道我今天是怎么来的吗？

Do you know how I got here today?

我穿过了好莱坞山，又经过了圣费尔南多谷，因为我们今天要报道希尔和山谷的新闻，但这次我们是从TVP和超穹顶进行的。

I drove through the Hollywood Hills, drove through the San Fernando Valley, because we're covering Hill And Valley today, but we're doing it from the TVP and Ultradome.

有很多新闻要分享。

Have a whole bunch of news.

不喜欢吗？

Doesn't like it?

不管怎样，你觉得怎么样，乔迪？

Anyway, what do you think about this, Jordi?

我们得回顾一下一些事情。

We have to recap some things.

最近发生了好多新闻。

There's been a whole bunch of news.

我们经历了2026年那场盛大的肽辩论。

We had the great peptide debate of twenty twenty six.

我们团队的布兰登·格里尔今天在通讯中写了关于这件事的内容，网址是 tbpn.com。

Brandon Grill on our team wrote about this in the newsletter today, tbpn.com.

你可以去订阅。

You can go subscribe.

你认为谁赢了？

Who do you think won?

我跟很多人聊过。

I was talking to a lot of people.

非常有趣。

Very interesting.

你之前安排了这个。

You had scheduled this.

我甚至都没意识到当时正在发生一场关于肽的辩论。

I wasn't even really aware that there was a peptide debate going on.

我们在节目中和其他一些人聊过肽，以及关于辩论评分的事。

We talked to some other folks on the show about peptides and how there was debate rating.

我知道那个梗，比如硅谷里的中国肽类物质之类的。

And I was aware of the meme, like the Chinese peptides in Silicon Valley, all of that stuff.

但我没意识到这场辩论已经升温到某个关键点，而且有这么多人在讨论，所以这个时机真是太好了，感谢你组织了这次活动。

But I wasn't aware of, like, that the debate was boiling to a particular point and that there were a lot of people that were discussing So it was great timing, so thank you for organizing that.

也感谢我们的嘉宾马克斯和马丁，抽出时间来和我们交流。

And thank you to our guests, Max and Martin, who took the time to come and talk to us.

我觉得他们做得非常好，既有趣又非常友善。

And I thought did a really good job of being simultaneously entertaining and also very cordial.

他们并没有真的针锋相对、互不相让。

Like, they weren't actually going at each other's throats.

他们确实提出了自己的观点，但我觉得他们都没有越过任何界限。

They were scoring points, but I don't think that either of them crossed any lines.

是的。

Yeah.

有人讨论过，我们是不是应该做更多的事实核查？

There was some there was some discussion over, should we have done more fact checking?

我真心觉得，聊天对事实核查很有帮助。

I genuine I generally think that the chat is good for fact checking.

或者专家们。

Or the experts.

是的。

Yeah.

这有点像你的观点。

It's kind of like your view.

但我不确定。

But I don't know.

对。

Yeah.

有很多人提出了非常中肯的观点，指出了某项研究或某项专利。

There's a bunch there's a bunch of people that made very fair points pointing out, you know, a study here or a patent here.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们昨天就能得出结论就好了，比如，这一切都很糟糕，没错。

And it would have been great if we got to a conclusion yesterday and it was like, yeah, this is all bad and Yeah.

都应该被禁止，或者它们都很好，或者已经搞清楚了。

Should all be banned or, you know, they're all good or or figured it out.

但那就是我们一开始的立场。

But But that's where we started.

我们一开始是，

We started with,

比如，没错。

like, with, like yeah.

在场的每个人都同意，由制药公司持有的GLP类物质可能并无益处，诸如此类。

Everyone there agrees that GLP ones that are owned by pharmaceutical companies are probably not beneficial, blah, blah, blah.

而那些在地下室里制造的、尚未被研究过的极端物质，很可能有风险。

And then the really far out stuff that hasn't been studied that's made in a basement is probably risky.

我们节目的一位好朋友，Sum It Up、Creatine Cycle、Atlas 当然说了，肽类争议如下：反对。

And we actually had a good friend of the show, Sum It Up, Creatine Cycle, Atlas, of course, said, The peptide debate is as follows: Against.

我会担心那些未知的未知因素。

I would be worried about unknown unknowns.

支持。

Pro.

虽然人类数据不多，但轶事证据相当有力。

While there isn't much human data, the anecdotal evidence is pretty strong.

轶事对我来说还不够。

Anecdotes are not enough for me.

支持。

Pro.

有道理。

Fair.

对我来说是的。

It is for me.

反对。

Against.

好的，有道理。

Okay, fair.

我认为这是一个很好的观点。

And I think that's a good point.

坦白说，人们可以自己做出决定。

And truthfully, people can make their own decisions here.

我认为在辩论过程中频繁插入事实核查会打断进程。

I do think interjecting with a ton of fact checking during the debate would be disruptive.

我不喜欢那样。

I'm not a fan of that.

我更倾向于让一个人，比如嘉宾或辩手，去核查对方的说法。

I sort of just like having one person, like, the the the guest, the debater fact check the other person.

因为如果他们掌握事实，而对方在辩论中提出不实信息，这就是他们指出‘不对，这不准确’的机会。

Because if they know the fact and the other person who they're debating against drops something that's not factual, that's their opportunity to come in and say, no, that's not accurate.

随时扔那个罐子

Throw that canister whenever

是的

Yeah.

马丁有。

Martin had.

哦。

Oh.

扔吧。

Throw it.

扔闪光弹。

Throw the flash bang.

扔烟雾弹。

Throw the smoke grenade.

但我确实喜欢让它们中的一些事实核查工作交给他们，然后作为主持人努力让辩论重回正轨。

But I do I like leaving some of the fact checking up to them and then just trying to recenter the debate as a moderator.

但我不确定。

But I don't know.

我们应该多搞一些这样的活动吗？

Should we do more of these?

告诉我们吧。

Let us know.

看起来很多人都玩得很开心，也很享受。

Seemed like a lot of people had a lot of fun with it and were entertained.

很难想象，如果我们打算每周都做一次，要怎么找出52个每个人都关心的热门话题，而且每个话题都能找到两位愿意在直播中激烈辩论、又富有娱乐性的对立专家。

It's hard to come up with you know, if we were going to try and do this weekly, it'd be very hard to come up with, like, 52 really hot topics that everyone cares about, and there are two opposing experts who are willing to hash it out and be entertaining on a live show.

可能不会经常发生，但时机合适的时候，我觉得我们有机会再办一场辩论。

Probably not going to happen all that much, but when the time is right, I think there's an opportunity for us to do another debate.

有人建议我们搞一场加速主义与减速主义的辩论。

Someone was saying we should do an accelerationist versus decelerationist debate.

我觉得这是贝丝·贾索斯提出的建议。

I think Beth Jasos was proposing that.

我觉得这会挺有意思的。

I think that would be sort of interesting.

我觉得我或许可以居中参与，进行一些有趣的讨论。

I think I could maybe sit in the middle of that and have some interesting discussions there.

有点像每小时60英里，保持在限速以内，是的，差不多，对，对。

Kind of like 60 miles per hour, stay under the speed limit Yes, kind of yes, yes.

在这方面，我是一个极端的加速主义者。

Well, on that factor, I am an extreme accelerationist.

在昨天的辩论之前，我们邀请了几位嘉宾在节目中讨论了肽类物质。

Leading up to the debate yesterday, we had several guests on the show discuss peptides.

今年二月，安德鲁·休伯曼登上节目，预测Retta（一种更激进的司美格鲁肽）将成为一种价值万亿美元的药物。

In February, Andrew Huberman came on and predicted that Retta, essentially a more aggressive Ozempic, become a trillion dollar drug.

就在同一天，我们邀请了长寿企业家布莱恩·约翰逊做客节目。

That same day, we had longevity entrepreneur Brian Johnson on the show.

他建议考虑使用肽类药物的人要谨慎，因为我们还不清楚这些药物的负面效应。

He encouraged people thinking about taking peptides to be cautious because we don't know what the negative effects of these drugs are.

上周，Maximus公司的首席执行官卡梅隆·Maximus上了节目——我觉得这可能不是他的真名。

And last week, Maximus CEO, Cameron Maximus, which I don't think is his real name.

他的姓是马西穆斯吗？

Is his last name Maximus?

不，不是。

No, it's not.

他的姓是

It's

我做不到。

I can't.

但我喜欢把他称为医生。

But I like to think of him as Doctor.

卡梅隆·马西穆斯。

Cameron Maximus.

这是他在X上的名字。

That is his name on X.

哦，好的，明白了。

Oh, okay, okay.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

但他认为，既然有经过FDA批准、合法可购的替泽帕肽，其效果与雷塔基本相同，人们完全没必要服用未经FDA批准、仅在灰色市场流通的雷塔；当医生推荐或市场有需求时，人们完全可以选择替泽帕肽。

But I He argued that there's no real reason to be taking Reta, not FDA approved, only available in the gray market, when they could be taking when people who are, you know, in the market or, you know, their doctor recommends something, they could be taking tirzepatide, which is essentially has the same benefits, can be bought legally, and it's FDA approved.

昨天，斯克雷利指出，当前的肽类热潮更多是心理驱动而非科学驱动，本质上只是硅谷精英群体中一种缺乏专业信任的短暂潮流。

So yesterday, Skreli argued Martin Skreli argued that the current peptide craze is more psychology driven than science driven, and is essentially a passing fad among Silicon Valley elites who aren't really expert trusters.

在他看来，既然像司美格鲁肽这样的已获批药物已经存在，就没有理性理由去尝试雷塔这类未经验证的化合物。

In his view, there is no rational reason to experiment with compounds like Retta when proven regulated drugs like Ozempic already exist.

他认为灰色市场应该被彻底关闭，但关于是否真的能成功关闭灰色市场，引发了激烈争论。

He thinks gray markets should be shut down entirely, and there was a big debate over how feasible is it to actually try and shut down the gray markets.

灰色市场在许多其他领域也长期存在。

Gray markets have existed in a whole bunch of other categories.

我对非法调味电子烟的灰色市场非常熟悉，因为它们一直是合法尼古丁产业的噩梦，严重扰乱了行业生存。

I'm very familiar with the gray market for illegal flavored vaporizers because they have been the bane of the legitimate industry, the nicotine industry, that's been the bane of their existence.

马丁认为，FDA严格的审批流程之所以存在，是有其合理原因的。

Martin argued that the FDA's rigorous approval process exists for a reason.

现在，我们听了马克斯对肽类产品的看涨观点。

Now, we had Max arguing the peptide bull case.

他认为并非所有肽类都安全有效，但其中一部分很可能具有真正的治疗价值。

He argued that he doesn't believe all peptides are safe and effective, but that a subset of them likely have real therapeutic value.

他说，既然人们已经在使用肽类，一个受监管的合法市场比当前的灰色市场更能减少危害。

He said that since people are already using peptides, a regulated white market would reduce harm compared to the current gray market.

那里有很多值得讨论的地方。

Lots to debate there.

我们会让你自己做出决定。

We'll let you make your own decisions.

你可以去听完整的辩论，看看你站在哪一边。

You can go listen to the full debate, and you can see where you weigh in.

没有泰勒·科斯格罗夫在TVP和UltraDome里，我们的广告朗读环节的鼓掌策略就完蛋了。

Not having Tyler Cosgrove in the TVP and UltraDome is it's a death knell for our clapping during the ad read strategy.

我们需要搞个音频控制台。

We need to get some soundboard going.

我们需要向这些支持者、赞助商表达感谢，因为我们现在正以二对三，甚至可能二对四地在战斗。

We need to show these supporters, these sponsors some love because we're we're fighting we're fighting two men down right now, maybe three men down.

我们在这次TV面板之旅中已经筋疲力尽了。

We're we're we're on our last leg over here in the TV panel trip.

苹果的情况完全不同。

Apple is in a completely different situation.

他们有一位潜在的接班人——好人约翰·特纳斯，他今年或明年就可能接手大权。

They have their heir apparent, John Turness, the nice guy, potentially taking the reins maybe this year, maybe next year.

这事随时都可能发生。

It could happen any day now.

蒂姆·库克不愿谈论退休，但约翰·特纳斯正成为他最可能的继任者。

Tim Cook doesn't wanna talk about retirement, but John Turnis is emerging as his most likely successor.

这是来自节目朋友、彭博社的马克·德国的报道。

This is from a friend of the show, Mark German in Bloomberg.

去订阅吧。

Go subscribe.

这是关于约翰·特尼斯在2026年3月的一篇有趣报道，就在两天前刚刚发布，它讲述了一个关于约翰·特尼斯的精彩故事。

This is an interesting profile of John Turnis from March 2026, just two days ago this, was published, and it tells an interesting story of John Turnis.

我认为古尔曼做得非常好，他深入挖掘了比其他报道更丰富的内容——那些报道往往只引用了一位十年前离开苹果的员工的模糊言论，而这个人也没有任何背景资料，让人很难了解约翰·特尼斯究竟是怎样的一个人。

And I think Gurman does a great job of going deeper than some of the other reporting that had, like, one quote from an employee that left Apple a decade ago and was sort of vague, and that person doesn't have like any sort of profile, and it was very hard to read into who is John Turnis as a person.

现在我们对他的了解越来越清晰了。

I think we're getting a clearer picture now.

我们来读一读其中的一些内容，然后我希望你扮演约翰·特尼斯，告诉我：你会采取不同的做法吗？

Let's read through some of this, and then I want you to cosplay as John Turnis and let me know, would you do things differently?

你认同他的管理风格吗？

Do you agree with his management style?

因为这很可能很快就会成为苹果公司的整体管理风格。

Because this might be the management style of all of Apple soon.

这家公司的首席运营官最近退休了。

The company's chief operating officer recently retired.

首席财务官和总法律顾问也减少了职责，为他们自己的退休做准备。

The CFO and general counsel took smaller roles as a way to prepare for their own retirements.

在十二月的短短一周内，该公司负责人工智能、用户界面和环境倡议的负责人均宣布离职。

And in a single week in December, its heads of artificial intelligence, user interfaces, and environmental initiatives all announced their departures.

尽管这次离职潮部分与苹果公司在人工智能领域广为人知的困境有关，

While part of the exodus was related to Apple's, Inc.

但它也反映了这家将在4月1日迎来50周年纪念的公司所经历的自然过渡。

Well documented struggles in AI, it also reflected a logical transition at a company that turns 50 on April 1.

苹果股票让公司高层变得极其富有，许多人正步入人生阶段，这个阶段常让人更重视家庭，终于愿意花时间陪伴家人，而非专注于下一代iPhone的研发。

Apple stock made everyone at the top of its org chart fabulously wealthy, and many are entering the stage of life that often inspires people to prioritize family spending some time finally spending some time with their families instead of the next generation of iPhones.

在回应员工提问时，这位65岁的公司首席执行官蒂姆·库克表现出罕见的反思态度。

In his response to the employee's question, Tim Cook, the company's 65 year old CEO, struck an atypically reflective tone.

他说，当人们到了一定年纪，有些人会选择退休——他特意用了‘有些人’这个词，暗示自己并不在其中，引得观众哄堂大笑。

When people get to a certain age, some, he said, are going to retire, letting the word some hang out there in a way that suggested he wasn't talking about himself, drawing laughter from the audience.

就像有些人，他们实在撑不住了。

It's like, some people, they they they can't hang.

但看看沃伦·巴菲特，65岁到95岁，是他人生中最富有成效的时期

But look at Warren Buffett, 65 to 95, most productive era of

蒂姆·库克的世代传承现在开始了。

his Tim Cook generational run starts now.

我喜欢库克再领导30年的想法，我依然看好蒂姆·库克。

I like the idea of Cook at for the next I'm 30 I'm still bullish, Tim Cook.

我的意思是，我很喜欢约翰·特尼斯。

I mean, I love John Turnis.

但我觉得，蒂姆·库克从65岁到95岁这三十年的任期会特别值得一看。

But I think the thirty year run from Tim Cook going 65 to '95 would be particularly fun to watch.

蒂姆·库克原本打算退休。

Tim Cook was going to retire.

但他开始尝试一些中国式的活力。

Then he started experimenting with some Chinese pep.

哦，你觉得是这么回事吗？

Oh, you think that's what's going on?

他一直都在关注

He's always Now looking

他就像说，我实际上还能再干几十年。

he's like, I actually got another few decades in me.

我希望如此。

I hope so.

他就像说，是的，实际上，BBC 157对我产生了显著的影响。

He's like, yeah, actually, it's BBC one five seven having a remarkable effects on me.

好吧。

Alright.

所以他说，我们必须确保苹果公司不断前进，达到下一个层次，再下一个层次，再下一个层次。

So he said, the thing we have to do is to make sure that Apple moves on, reaches the next level and the next level and the next level.

他说他花了很多时间思考五年、十年、十五年后谁会坐在这个房间里。

And he said he spends a lot of time thinking about who's in the room in five, ten, fifteen years.

我对这个着迷了。

I'm obsessed with this.

这才是最出色的蒂姆·库克。

This is Tim Cook at his best.

这人不能走。

This guy can't leave.

他不能走。

He can't leave.

他让我热血沸腾。

He's firing me up here.

我痴迷于听Sunrun。

I'm obsessed listening Sunrun.

是的。

Yes.

太棒了。

It's amazing.

所以，自2011年接替联合创始人史蒂夫·乔布斯执掌苹果的库克，可能并不指望自己还能在房间里再待十五年，但我相信他会。

So Cooke, who's run Apple since taking over from cofounder Steve Jobs in 2011, probably doesn't expect to be in the room himself for another fifteen years, but I do.

我押注于他。

I'm betting on him.

他并没有表现出即将进行交接的迹象。

Well, he's given no indication of an imminent transition.

他明确表示，希望接班人来自公司内部，以便他能担任导师。

He's made it clear he wants his air to come from within the company so he can serve as a mentor.

主要候选人是约翰·特尼什，硬件工程高级副总裁，负责开发占苹果收入约80%的设备。

The central candidate is John Turnis, senior vice president for hardware engineering, who oversees development of the devices that generate roughly 80% of Apple's revenue.

特尼什50岁，比公司其他许多高级领导都年轻，这意味着他可能在最高职位上待得更久。

At 50, Ternis is also younger than many of the company's other senior leaders, meaning he could be in the top job longer.

特尼什一生中大约有一半时间都在苹果公司度过。

Ternis has spent about half of his life at Apple.

他的一半人生，一代人的传承。

Half of his life, generational run.

他最初参与开发电脑显示器，主导了初代iPad的产品设计，后来接手Mac的开发，并于2021年担任硬件工程最高职位。

He cut his teeth developing computer monitors, oversaw product design for the original iPad, and eventually took over development of the Mac, getting the top hardware engineering role in 2021.

他主导了苹果产品线的扩展，提升了产品质量，并专注于电池续航、性能和连接性等功能的改进。

He's overseen an expansion in Apple's product lineup, improving quality and focusing on functional improvements around battery life, performance, and connectivity.

本月早些时候，苹果在纽约举办活动发布MacBook Neo这款笔记本电脑时，出面做重磅发布的是特尔努斯，而不是库克。

Earlier this month, when Apple held an event in New York to announce the MacBook Neo, a May laptop, it was Ternus, not Cooke, who did the big reveal.

一次小试水。

Little trial run.

第二天，特尔努斯还登上了《早安美国》节目推广这款设备，而这类媒体亮相通常都是库克亲自出马的。

The next day, Ternis also appeared on Good Morning America to talk up the device, the type of media appearance Cook has generally done himself.

对特尔努斯的这种公开信任，伴随着他职责范围的稳步扩大。

Such public signs of confidence in Ternis have been accompanied by steady expansion of his portfolio.

去年，他接管了一个秘密部门，该部门正在开发机器人产品，包括一款带有屏幕的桌面设备，屏幕会旋转以聚焦移动的说话者。

Last year, he took control of a secretive unit developing robot robots, including a tabletop device with a screen that swirls to focus on a speaker moving

围绕Smart灯。

around Smart the lamp.

这就是它吗？

Is this what it is?

不是。

No.

这不是一盏智能灯。

It's not a smart lamp.

它是‘No’。

It's No.

这个

The

是iPad，装在一个可旋转的臂上。

It's the iPad that on a on a Yeah.

旋转臂。

Swivel arm.

是的。

Yeah.

iPad会跟着你移动，让你可以向你提问，和朋友进行FaceTime通话。

The iPad that follows you around so that you can ask you questions and FaceTime with your friends.

可以从任何地方发起。

Can from anywhere.

听说它会做后空翻，但

Think there's a rumor that it can do kick flips, but

我超想拥有这个功能。

I'd be super into that.

如果它有马达，你应该见过那种装在自行车上的电机，就是一个大电池包，上面连着一个机械臂。

If it has a motor, you've seen those motor those robots that are on the bikes, and it's just a big battery pack with like a robotic arm that's attached to it.

你见过这个吗？

Have you seen this?

哦，这太棒了。

Oh, this is amazing.

苹果推出了一款智能iPad设备，就叫作iPad自行车。

Apple comes out with a with a with a smart iPad device that's that's just called a bicycle for the iPad.

它就是一辆小小的自行车。

It's just it's just a little bicycle.

不是。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

如果你在这里放一个重物，再有一个可以向下铰接的机械臂，当你快速向上拉它时，实际上就能跳起来。

If you if you have a weight up here and you have and you have a robotic arm that can hinge down, if you pull that up really quickly, you can actually jump up.

所以网上有很多关于这些机器人自行车的疯狂视频，比如跳上桌子之类的。

And so there's all these crazy videos of these robot bikes, like, jumping up onto tables and stuff.

这非常有趣。

It's very fun.

他在苹果的产品营销中扮演了更重要的角色，有时亲自编辑网站文案甚至产品发布会材料，并成为公司推动设备更环保可持续的核心人物。

Has taken a bigger role in Apple's product marketing, sometimes personally editing copy for the website and even product event materials, and he has become central to the company's work to make its devices more environmentally sustainable.

蒂尔尼斯还接管了硬件和软件设计团队，使他成为苹果卓越设计团队与高层管理之间的关键联络人，这意味着他已经是公司历史上最具影响力的人物之一。

Turnis has also assumed oversight of the hardware and software design teams, making him a key liaison between Apple's vaunted design organization and senior management, meaning he's already one of the most influential people in the company's history.

他对苹果的硬件产品线产生了深远影响，扭转了公司过去为追求轻薄和美观而牺牲性能、导致产品质量下滑的趋势。

He has made a mark on Apple's hardware portfolio, reversing a trend of declining product quality as the company prioritized thinness and sleekness over performance.

公司前首席采购官托尼·布莱文斯表示，他是一位非常细致的工程师和审慎的管理者，认为特尔努斯是接替库克的杰出且显而易见的人选。

He is a very meticulous engineer and a judicious executive, says Tony Blevins, the company's chief procurement officer until 2022, who described Ternus as an outstanding and obvious choice to succeed Cooke.

他是个汽车赛车迷。

He's a car he's a car racing enthusiast.

他是个骑行爱好者。

He's a cycling enthusiast.

我猜骑行意味着使用增强表现的药物？

I assume cycling means performance enhancing drugs?

是的。

Yeah.

骑行？

Cycles?

趋势。

Trend.

趋势？

Trend?

睾酮？

Testosterone?

不。

No.

他是一名自行车手，也是汽车赛车爱好者。

He is a bicyclist and a car racing enthusiast.

特尔尼斯常带同事去华盛顿州北部参加越野拉力赛车。

Ternis is known to take his colleagues to Upstate Washington for off road rally car racing.

走吧。

Let's go.

绝佳的选择，蒂姆·库克。

Excellent choice, Tim Cook.

我明白你为什么选看涨了。

I see why you picked bullish.

尽管他热爱赛车运动，但特尔尼斯和库克一样，都规避风险，不愿像亲近他的人所说那样‘打翻饭碗’。

His love of motorsports, notwithstanding, Turnis, like Cook, is risk averse and reluctant to, as one person close to him puts it, upset the apple cart.

好笑的双关语。

Good pun.

正如一位资深高管所说，如果你认为蒂姆·库克做得很好，那么你也会认为约翰·库根做得不错。

As one longtime executive says, if you think Tim's Tim Cook is doing a good job, then you'll think John Coogan is doing a good job too.

这听起来也像是一种暗中攻击。

That also feels like an underhanded

这可能是在挖苦。

It's maybe a dig.

我一直坚定地支持蒂姆·库克。

I have been a staunch defender of Tim Cook.

他在供应链上表现优异，在关税问题上处理得当，成功谈判了各种棘手事务，最终与Gemini建立了出色的合作关系；虽然在一个月内调查某个功能时看起来总是很糟糕。

Did well on the supply chain, did well on the tariffs, did well negotiating all sorts of tough things, wound up with a great partnership with Gemini, like wound up in like always looks bad as you're like investigating one feature on a one month time line.

但如果你放眼十年，会发现创造了惊人的价值，业绩极为出色，从我的角度看，业务上几乎没有明显短板。

When But you zoom out over a decade, incredible amount of value created, incredible performance, and very few weaknesses in the business from my perspective.

但你也可以持相反观点，因为我知道你对它们最近发布的每个应用都感到沮丧。

But you can take the other side of that because I know you're frustrated by every app that they release lately.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

不只是那些应用。

Not just the apps.

不只是那些应用。

Not just the apps.

还有操作系统本身。

The operating system itself.

而且，新的材质确实有点粗糙。

Also, I mean, the new material is rough.

比如，我经常摔这个手机，上面都是划痕。

Like, I drop this phone a lot, and it's very scratched.

尽管他以亲和的管理风格著称，他被认为是一位非常友善的管理者，人很好。

Despite his reputation for personable management, so he's known as a very nice manager, nice guy.

他是苹果公司里的好人。

He's the nice guy at Apple.

图努斯有时会打破这种风格，引发了公司内部的侧目。

Turnus has, at times, broken with that style in ways that raised eyebrows internally.

在Vision Pro头显发布前夕，我最喜爱的苹果设备——毫不夸张地说——工程师们发现了一个威胁到该设备核心功能的缺陷。

Late in the lead up to the release of the Vision Pro headset, my favorite Apple device ever, unironically, For instance, engineers uncovered a flaw that threatened one of the device's marquee features.

它能够进行流媒体传输，你

It's the ability to stream You're

你可不是普通用户，约翰。

not the average user, John.

你是个高级用户。

You use I'm power user.

普通用户并不会使用

The average user doesn't use the

是的。

Yeah.

我在使用频率上比平均水平高出五个标准差。

I'm like five standard deviations above on the usage.

因此，从头显向AirPods传输超低延迟音频的能力。

So the ability to stream ultra low latency audio from the headset to AirPods.

这显然是苹果宣传沉浸式视频和游戏无缝体验的核心功能。

This apparently was a capability central to Apple's pitch of a seamless experience for immersive video and gaming.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你刚刚买了这个这个

So you just bought this this

3500美元

$3,500

设备。

device.

3500美元的面部电脑。

$3,500 face computer.

而3500美元是他们宣传的 headline

And and $3,500 was the headline they're telling

你和他们说

you and they're telling

当我买的时候，价格接近5000美元。

you When I bought one, it was close to $5.

想想真有意思，他们竟然推出了这款3000到5000美元的设备，是的。

Just think it's so funny that they shipped this, you know, 3 to $5,000 Yes.

你知道的，一个戴在头上又特别重的电脑。

You know, computer for your head that's super heavy.

他们还说，你还得再配一副AirPods。

And they're like, and you're gonna need to grab some AirPods.

是的。

Yeah.

这显然对苹果来说很重要。

It was clearly important to Apple.

苹果一直以设备整合、硬件整合为傲，而且他们在这方面非常出色。

Apple's always prided itself on device integration, hardware integration, and they are great at that.

比如，你戴上AirPods，然后切换到MacBook上的YouTube视频，它就会直接在那里播放。

Like, you put in the AirPods and and you switch over to a YouTube video on your on your MacBook, and it just plays right there.

你再切换到手机上。

You switch over to your phone.

你接个电话。

You take a call.

它又立刻切回去了。

It switches right back.

他们的蓝牙策略和无线策略在连接性方面一直非常出色。

Like, the connectivity with their Bluetooth strategy and their wireless strategy has always been fantastic.

但显然，Vision Pro头显的开发进展并不顺利。

But apparently, it wasn't going well with the development of the VisionPRO headset.

因此，从头显向AirPods传输超低延迟音频的能力，是苹果宣传沉浸式视频和游戏无缝体验的核心功能。

So the ability to stream ultra low latency audio from the headset to AirPods, this was a capability central to Apple's pitch of a seamless experience for immersive video and gaming.

问题源于当时最新款的AirPods Pro缺少一个必要的无线频段。

The problem stemmed from a missing wireless frequency in the net in the then newest AirPods Pro.

唯一的实际解决方案是推出一款改进版的耳机，公司确实在2023年这么做了。

The only practical fix was to ship a revised version of the earbuds, which the company did at the 2023.

这有点奇怪，可能让他们多花了不少钱。

It was sort of a weird move, probably cost them some extra money to do.

这个错误是由这个团队中的一位硬件工程师造成的。

It was a mistake that was caused by a particular hardware engineer on this team.

当苹果在2024年2月推出Apple Vision Pro时，任何想要这个功能的人，都花了3500美元购买设备，还得再花250美元买新的AirPods，而这些新耳机除了增加超低延迟支持外，几乎没有其他改进。

When they launched the Apple Vision Pro in February 2024, that meant that anyone who wanted this feature, they just paid $3,500 They had to spend another $250 on new AirPods that added the ultra low latency support and not much else.

因此，这是一场灾难，其影响波及了多个团队，包括硬件、软件、测试和Vision Pro团队。

And so this was a debacle, and the debacle reverberated through multiple teams, including hardware, software, testing, and the VisionPRO group.

参与此事的人表示，蒂尔尼最初专注于追究责任，导致一些员工感到疏远。

People involved said Turnis alienated some people on staff by focusing initially on finding out whom to blame.

是谁干的？

Who did it?

事后，一位资深AirPods高管被调离了岗位。

In the aftermath, a senior AirPods executive was reassigned.

我笑是因为我今天早上问了乔迪。

I'm laughing because I so I asked Jordi this morning.

我说，好吧。

I said, Okay.

我给他大致讲了事情的经过。

I gave him like the overall broad strokes of what happened.

你的第一个建议是什么？

And what was your first recommendation

关闭这两个产品线。

for Shut down both product lines.

关闭这两个产品线。

Shut down both

干脆彻底关闭这两个产品线。

Just shut product product lines down entirely.

然后我会专注于推出一款用木材和马毛制成的有线耳机。

And then I would have focused on coming out with a pair of wired headsets made of wood using horsehair Horsehair.

关于实际的连接方式。

For the actual connectivity.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

然后

And then

完全不需要电线。

No wires at all.

对。

Yeah.

然后大概用皮革

And then sort of like with a leather

当然不能用塑料。

Certainly no plastics.

没有大塑料或微塑料。

No macroplastics or microplastics.

是的。

Yeah.

这可能是为了增加舒适度而制造某种动物脂。

It's probably creating some type of tallow to make them more comfortable.

你不需要用木头。

You don't want the wood.

所以你可以把木刺放进你的耳朵里，就像用牛肉一样，你可以用牛脂润滑耳道。

So you can put splinters in Splinters your like a beef So you lubricate your ear canal with beef tallow.

回归基本吧。

Just go back to basics.

就回到

Just back

推出AirPod，是的。

to Introducing AirPod Yeah.

穴居人。

Caveman.

穴居人。

Caveman.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是你的想法。

That that's what you thought.

那就是我会开始的地方。

That's where I would have started.

根据我的理解，这个问题的关键在于，是的。

This issue comes down to, from my understanding Yeah.

这位负有责任的高级主管，就是AirPod。

This senior executive who is responsible, it was the AirPod.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

他没有意识到苹果 Vision Pro 即将发布。

He did not process that the Apple Vision Pro was coming out Yeah.

而且他们还在针对这个功能进行销售。

And they were selling against this feature.

这是错误报道。

It's a misreport.

还有苹果，是的。

And Apple yeah.

还有苹果，我认为他们至今仍然做得很好的一点是，是的。

And and and Apple the thing that I think they still do really well Yeah.

直到今天，尽管你知道，他们在 iPhone 上的几乎所有其他软件都一塌糊涂

To this day, even though, you know, almost all their other software on the iPhone is is a total disaster

是的。

Yeah.

设备之间的连接性，是的。

Is connectivity between the devices Yeah.

以及同步它们和其他类似的功能。

And syncing them and things like that.

所以他们在这方面仍然做得很好。

So they still do that well.

是的。

Yeah.

结果却推出这个产品，而且犯了一个明显的、本可避免的错误，没有与其他团队进行充分沟通。

And so to come out with this and in a in just a blatant sort of unforced error, didn't didn't communicate properly with the other teams.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

对于AirPods，它们的设计就是为了与所有其他设备完美同步

For the AirPods, which are just designed to sync perfectly with all the other

这就像是其中一台相机模糊了之类的情况。

It would be like if one of the cameras was blurry or something like that.

iPhone虽然还没有在AI功能上大放异彩，但每个人依然依赖iPhone拥有出色的摄像头。

It's like, well, the iPhone, yeah, it's not dominating AI crazy features yet, but everyone counts on the iPhone for having a good set of cameras.

它们一直都很出色。

They're always good.

所以，如果你搞砸了作为战略基础的东西，那是有风险的。

And so if you mess up something that is the basis of the strategy, that is risky.

他是个好人，还是太严厉了？

Is he a nice guy or is he too hard?

Turnus把错误看作是系统性问题，认为可以通过更好的领导来解决，而不是把责任推给工程师——那个为他工作的人。这个人补充说，Turnus是个好人。

Turnus looks at mistakes as systemic problems that could be solved with better leadership instead of by putting the onus on the engineer, someone who said who worked for him, and this person adds, Turnus is a nice guy.

这让人回想起了史蒂夫·乔布斯的时代。

It's a throwback to the the Steve Jobs era.