如何做出正确的职业选择——帕蒂·斯通西弗的秘诀 | 来自莫莉·格雷厄姆的《工作生活》

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

我是马杜帕。

It's Madupa here.

今天我们要分享一集你们一定会喜欢的播客。

Today, we're sharing an episode of a podcast we think you'll love.

这集节目是TED团队精心挑选的，相信作为TED商业类听众，你们听完后一定能获得新的灵感和全新的视角。

It's been handpicked by the TED staff, and we think that as TED business listeners, you'll come away with a fresh idea and a totally new perspective.

好好听吧，更多内容请见简介里的链接。

Enjoy, and head to the link in the description for more.

工作占据了我们生活的大部分时间。

Work consumes most of our lives.

尤其是如果你每周工作四十、五十个小时甚至更多，那可是相当长的一段人生。

Particularly if you're working forty, fifty or more hours per week, that is a lot of life.

久而久之，你所做的工作不仅会影响你如何度过每一天，还会改变你对自己的看法。

Over time, what you do for work can shape not just how you spend your days, but how you think about yourself.

但这么占据我们生活的事情，大多数人选工作时却完全是凭感觉瞎撞。

And yet for something that takes up so much of our lives, most of us are basically improvising when it comes to deciding what work we should do.

我刚入行的时候，确实像在参加一场竞赛。

Early in my career, I was definitely in some kind of race.

一场证明自己的竞赛，争取别人认可我有能力。

It was a race to prove myself, to get recognition that I was good at things.

这种认可体现在头衔、晋升、薪资，以及所有看得见的胜利信号上。

That recognition came in the form of titles and promotions and compensation and all the visible signals that I was winning.

尽管这场竞赛的规则和赛道都是别人定的，但我很长一段时间都用它来指导我的职业选择。

Even though it was somebody else's race and somebody else's rules, for a long time, I let it guide how I made decisions about my career.

直到某一天，生活让我停下来，问了一个更难的问题。

And then at some point, life made me pause and ask a much harder question.

我真正想要的是什么？

What do I actually want?

对我而言，成功到底意味着什么？

What does success mean to me?

对我来说，生活中什么是重要的？

What matters to me in my life?

我真正希望自己的人生聚焦在什么上？

What do I want my life to be about?

工作又该怎样融入这一切？

And how does work fit in to all of that?

我们职业生涯中的重大决定，往往没有标准答案。

Most of the big decisions in our careers don't come with clear answers.

它们带来的都是取舍。

They come with trade offs.

声望还是意义？

Prestige versus meaning.

规模还是亲近？

Scale versus proximity.

金钱还是时间？

Money versus time.

安全 versus 成长。

Safety versus growth.

所以当所有选择在纸面上都看起来不错时，你该怎么坚持做自己？

So when all the options look good on paper, how do you stay true to yourself?

你又该怎么判断什么才是真正适合你的？

And how do you decide what's actually right for you?

我是莫莉·格雷厄姆，欢迎收听《WorkLife》，一档探讨工作背后复杂人性的节目。

I'm Molly Graham, and this is WorkLife, a show where we untangle the messy human side of work.

帕蒂·斯通西弗是我职业生涯中做决定时最常请教的人之一。

Patty Stonesifer is one of the people I have turned to most often when I've made decisions in my career.

我非常钦佩她，不只是因为她的成就，更因为她总能清楚地知道自己该怎样坚持本心。

I admire her so much, not just because of what she's done, but because she's always seemed to know how to stay true to herself.

尤其当你做过那些光鲜的全球性职位时，很容易被自我、头衔这些因素牵着走。

It can be so easy to let things like ego and prestige lead, particularly when you've held fancy global jobs.

但帕蒂从来不会。

But Patty never has.

多年前，她写下了一份个人使命宣言，用一组简洁的原则作为自己做职业选择或规划时间时的指南针。

Years ago, she wrote down a personal mission statement, a short set of principles that she uses as a North Star when she's making career decisions or thinking about how to spend her time.

正是这份清晰的使命，引导她成为你可能从未听说过、却最令人钦佩的人之一。

The clarity from this mission statement has guided her into becoming one of the most impressive people that you have probably never heard of.

帕蒂曾在微软早期担任最高级别的女性高管。

Patty was the most senior female executive at Microsoft in its early years.

之后，她成为比尔和梅琳达·盖茨基金会的创始首席执行官，也是亚马逊最早的独立董事之一。

She then became the founding CEO of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and one of Amazon's first independent board members.

直到今天，她仍然在董事会任职。

And she still sits on that board today.

在你觉得‘这听起来挺了不起’之前，她也用这份使命宣言，拒绝过那些感觉不对的高薪职位。

And before you say, well, sounds pretty fancy to me, she's also used this mission statement to turn down big jobs that didn't quite feel like her.

所以本期节目，我们就来聊聊这份使命宣言。

So this episode is about that mission statement.

她为什么写下它？

Why she created it?

她是怎么把它落实到行动中的？

How she's put it into practice?

我们其他人能不能也打造一个类似的东西？

And whether the rest of us can build something similar.

帕蒂·斯通西弗，欢迎来到《WorkLife》。

Patty Stonesifer, welcome to WorkLife.

谢谢你，莫莉。

Thank you, Molly.

很高兴能来到这里。

It's great to be here.

非常高兴你能来。

I'm so glad to have you.

我一直很期待这次对话。

I've been looking forward to this conversation.

帕蒂，你有一份个人使命宣言，指引着你的决策。

Patty, you have a personal mission statement that guides your decisions.

你能跟我们说说，它具体是什么，你是怎么想出这句话的吗？

Will you tell us what it is and how you came up with it?

当然可以。

Yes.

我觉得，从本质上讲，虽然我叫它个人使命宣言，但其实也可以称之为个人准则，对吧？

Well, I think at some level, while I call it a personal mission statement, you could also call it personal principles, right?

因为使命宣言讲的是我们要做什么，而准则讲的是我们该怎么做。

Because a mission statement is kind of what are we gonna do and the principles are kind of how are we gonna do it.

我把这两者融合成了一句简单的话，既用来指导重大决定，也帮我规划日常安排。

And I've merged those two into a simple statement to both guide big decisions, but also provide a framework for me organizing my days.

我一直很主动地用这句话来定义什么是成功，然后以此为框架，决定这周、这个月、这一天我该做什么。

And so I've been very proactive about making sure that I define success through this statement that I then use as an organizing framework for what am I gonna do this week, this month, this day.

我经常说不，这样才能在我答应的事情上深入下去。

I'm a person who says no a lot so that I can go deep where I say yes.

我确实经常说不。

But I say no a lot.

我有一些朋友，特别棒的变革者，但他们就是学不会说不。

And I have friends who are wonderful, wonderful change makers who just cannot say no.

所以我就得有个框架，告诉我：我只能在两三个事情上持续学习，对吧？

So that need to have a framework that says, I can only keep learning on two or three things, right?

这就意味着得说很多次不，很多次不。

And so that means a lot of no's, a lot of no's.

我把这个框架，再加上限制每部分事项数量的自律，当成一种说‘不’的工具，不光是说‘是’的工具。

And I use that framework plus the discipline of limiting the number of things within each part of the framework as a no device as much as it is a yes device.

我特别喜欢。

I love it.

好，能跟我们说说你的使命宣言是什么吗？

All right, will you tell us what the mission statement is?

很简单。

It's very simple.

就是：去爱，被爱，追求正义，持续学习，然后笑。

It is love, be loved, seek justice, keep learning, and laugh.

我太喜欢了。

I love it so much.

你是怎么想出这个的？

How did you come up with it?

我一向喜欢思考哪些价值观应该指引人生。

So I've always been prone to thinking about what values should be guiding things.

我成长的家庭特别重视社会价值，但我把它们和工作分成了两个不同的部分。

I came from a family that was very big on social values, but I kinda put that in one bucket and work in another.

在前四十年里，我虽然忙着照顾年幼的孩子，但也全身心投入在科技行业的大事业中。

And my first four decades, I was very consumed with, yes, a young family, but also very big job in tech world.

我起步时一无所有，后来一步步为家人建立起资产基础。

Making money, I'd started out with none and began the process of really building asset base for my family.

但到了四十岁，虽然我已经做出了不少让自己满意的决定，却突然意识到，自己赚的钱和取得的成就，远超当初的预期。

But at age 40, while I had more or less made decisions that I felt good about, I really realized that I'd made more money and had more success than I expected.

那时候，我决定离开微软，认真思考：人生的后半程，我究竟还想要什么。

And it was time to step away at that point from Microsoft and really consider what more did I want this second half of my life to be.

不只是非正式地运用这些价值观，而是要把它们正式确立下来。

Not just using those values informally, but formalizing them.

所以我的表述才这么简短，因为我要的是一个能在别人找我做事、机会出现、或者计划下周该做什么时，随时能想到的东西。

That's why my statement is so short, because I needed something that I could be thinking of when people ask me to do something, when an opportunity presented itself, when what was I planning for next week came up.

我需要一个简单的参照点，方便回头核对，确保自己用时间、权力和资源去实现真正的人生使命和原则。

I needed to have a touch stone that was easy to go back to and make sure that I was using my time and my power and my resources against that real set of mission and principles.

是的。

Yeah.

你具体是怎么写出来的？

How did you actually write it down?

你是什么时候第一次写下来的？

When did you first write it down?

你就是一个人坐在房间里，直接想出来的吗？

Did you just sit in a room and come up with it?

我想我是在宣布离开微软的第二天，就把这些写下来了，莫莉。

I think I wrote it down, Molly, the day after that I announced I was leaving Microsoft.

梦工厂SKG的创始人联系我，邀请我加入他们。

The principals of DreamWorks SKG called me and said, Come join us.

我答应了，因为听起来实在太吸引人了。

And I said, Yes, because it seems so cool.

我当时已经准备好离开微软了。

I was ready to step away from Microsoft.

这确实符合我‘持续学习’的原则，但我只是顺手抓住了下一个特别酷的机会。

It definitely fit my keep learning category, but I kind of just grabbed that next really cool rung.

十二周后，我开始和比尔与梅琳达·盖茨讨论他们想在慈善事业上做些什么，以及我们如何能一起合作。

And twelve weeks later, began a conversation with Bill and Melinda Gates about what they were hoping to do with their philanthropy and how we might do some of that together.

我意识到，我得更加有意识地规划了。

And I realized, oh, I'm gonna have to be far more intentional.

那时候，已经有好几家公司找上门来，我也开始进入董事会的遴选流程，所以必须建立一个清晰的框架，不仅要明白什么时候该答应，更要清楚什么时候该拒绝、推迟，或者干脆说这事儿没排上优先级。

Because by that time, several corporations had called, I had begun the process of joining board of directors, but it was necessary to really get a framework to know not just where to say yes, but where to say no, where to say later, where to say didn't hit the top of the priorities.

是的。

Yeah.

首先，我想说，虽然我挺了解你的，但真没想到你这么早就定下了这个方向。

So first of all, I wanted to say, despite knowing you well, I didn't actually know you built the statement this early.

我觉得特别有意思，因为别人讲你的职业经历时，总说她离开微软后直接去了盖茨基金会。

And I also think it's really interesting because I think often when other people tell your career story, they say, Oh, she left Microsoft and she went straight to the Gates Foundation.

但实际上，你中间还做过一份工作，就是你提到的梦工厂的职位，而且你待得并不久。

But actually, there was a job you took in the middle, which you mentioned, the DreamWorks job, and you left it pretty quickly.

那肯定挺难的吧。

Like, that must have been really hard.

我常开玩笑说，哪天我要写本《我在好莱坞的十二周》回忆录，篇幅特别短。

I teasingly say sometime I'll write my twelve weeks in Hollywood memoir, very short.

其实我之前在微软的时候就和梦工厂的人合作过一个联合项目。

I really just I had worked with the folks at DreamWorks on a joint venture at Microsoft.

我一直很欣赏他们，也很佩服他们敢做大事的魄力。

And I just admired them and admired the boldness of what they were trying to do.

当时就觉得，这事儿太酷了，对吧？

And it just seemed so cool, right?

所以我答应了，因为那实在太吸引人了。

So I said yes because it was so cool.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

世界上有很多精彩的事，但你只能选其中几件来做。

The world is full of a lot of cool things and you can only do a few.

随着时间推移，我把这句话改得越来越简单了。

I changed the statement over time to be simpler.

我觉得‘去爱和被爱’在我年纪渐长后变得更加重要了，尤其是我丈夫需要更多陪伴之后。

I think the love and be loved has moved even further up the priorities as I've gotten older and especially as my husband has needed more attention.

你得每年或每隔一段时间重新看看，问问自己：这还是最适合我的安排吗？

You have to look at these things every year or so and decide, is this still the right composition for me?

是的。

Yeah.

其实我想逐条聊聊，因为我觉得每一条背后都藏着对你来说特别的意义。

Well, I actually wanna go through it piece by piece because I'm guessing each piece actually has a story for what it means to you.

那你能不能聊聊这些内容本身，还有它们对你意味着什么，以及它们是怎么随着时间变化的？

So will you talk a little bit both about the pieces of it and what they mean to you, but also how they've changed over time?

那我们先从‘爱与被爱’说起吧。

Well, let's start with love and be loved.

我觉得这关乎我想以怎样的姿态活在这个世界上。

I think of that as how I wanna show up in this world.

也就是说，对我来说，最重要的个人价值是什么？

You know, what are the high personal values for me?

我一直是个很温柔的人，但以前拼命工作的时候，并没有经常、也没有那么用心地把这份温柔付诸行动。

And I've always been a very loving person, but I did not always, when working like a crazy person, put this into action as frequently and as thoughtfully.

现在我开始有意识地腾出时间、空间和机会去爱别人，也接受别人的爱，哪怕是在职场里——我猜以前我可能更严厉一些。

This idea of intentionally finding the time and the space and the opportunity to love and be loved, whether that is in a corporate setting where I think I probably used to be tougher.

人年纪大了，经历多了，就能清晰表达，而不必那么强硬。

You get older, you get more experienced, you can be clear without being tough.

随着时间推移，我觉得自己变得更清晰了，也没那么咄咄逼人了。

And I became, I think, more clear and a little less tough as time moved on.

随着我学会去爱也被爱，我渐渐敞开心扉，让别人更愿意爱我——不再只是当个老板，而是成为朋友、导师、同事，也愿意做别人的学徒。

And as love and be loved opened myself up to people loving me even more, to not just being the boss, but being the friend, being the mentor, being the colleague and being a mentee.

这些角色在我年纪渐长后，都变得越来越丰富，也越来越有力量。

All of those things got bigger and better as I got older.

我特别喜欢这一点。

I love that.

那接下来，你能谈谈‘追求正义’吗？

And then will you talk about seek justice?

我觉得，每个人内心深处都有一种对自身独特使命的感知。

Well, I think all of us have at some level a feeling of our special purpose.

刚开始的时候，我总是听别人说我该有什么样的使命。

And at the beginning, I listened to what others said my special purpose was.

我是个特别有条理、执行力超强的姑娘，对吧？

I am one heck of an organized, get stuff done kind of girl, right?

只要你给我一个难题，我一定会把它解决掉。

And if you give me a problem, I'm gonna solve it.

我一定会把它搞定。

I'm gonna get it done.

我们一定能把这事办得妥妥的。

We're gonna nail it down.

但选择在哪里施展这些能力，也伴随着一定的成功，对吧？

But choosing where to apply those skills came with some level of success, right?

一开始，我真正在意的是稳住家里的经济，买房子、买车，把学生贷款都还清，所有这些事。

So at the beginning, I really was trying to stabilize my family's finances and get the house and the car and the student loans paid off, all of those things.

等这些负担慢慢减轻后，我才发现，我可以把组织人手、管理项目的本事用在更宏大的使命上，而这个使命完全可以和追求正义结合起来——这正是我内心最重视的事，是我真正的使命。

And as those began to ease, I realized I could apply those skills of knowing how to organize people and projects around a mission and that that mission could be aligned with seeking justice, which was my number one heart priority, my number one purpose.

从一开始，我家就非常关注社会正义。

From the get go, my family was very oriented around social justice.

他们是一群非常有行动力的天主教徒。

They were very activist Catholics.

如果你去问我的任何一个兄弟姐妹，他们都能讲出一段精彩的故事，说明他们即使从事着别的职业，也一直在践行这份信念。

And if you talk to any one of my siblings, they've got a great story of how they're pursuing that even if their day job is something else.

那时候我白天的工作还是给微软做下一个游戏光盘。

And I was also pursuing it when my day job was producing the next CD ROM for Microsoft games.

但能把这个使命放在核心位置——追求正义，并运用我积累的那些能力，真的彻底改变了我的人生方向。

But to be able to put that in the center to make that special purpose that I have is seek justice and to use the skills that I developed was really a fantastic change in my life orientation.

对。

Right.

好，我们继续。

Okay, let's keep going.

接下来是持续学习吗？

So the next part is keep learning?

没错，持续学习。

No, keep learning.

保持学习的求知欲很重要，但作为管理者、领导者、妻子、女儿，我也发现，必须保持开放的心态：我得改变，得听别人说，得向别人学习。

This need to keep learning intellectually is important, but also I found as a manager, as a leader, as a wife, as a daughter, etcetera, the need to stay open to, I've gotta change, I've gotta hear this person, I've gotta learn from this person.

这其实也是持续学习的一部分，对吧？

That is part of keep learning, right?

别把自己当经理看得太重。

Is to not take yourself as a manager too seriously.

你得学会倾听。

You need to learn.

哪怕你不认同大家说的，也得听进去，从中学习。

Even if you don't like what everybody's saying, you need to hear it and learn it.

这种持续学习的过程，对我个人和职业生活都变得越来越重要，从一开始就这样，随着年纪增长，也越来越深刻。

So that whole process of keep learning and it becoming very important for me in my personal life, as well as my professional life was something that started at the beginning and got richer and richer as I got older.

是的。

Yeah.

那最后一句呢？

And then what about that last line?

后来，我一位特别要好的朋友说，听起来好像有点太沉重了。

Last came late in that one of my dearest friends said she thought it sounded really kind of heavy.

她说的是梅琳达·盖茨，我和她一起做了很多 SEEK Justice 的工作。

It was Melinda Gates who I've shared a lot of the SEEK Justice work with.

我们会经常聊聊你整体上过得怎么样，对吧？

And we talk a fair bit about how are we doing in a bigger way, right?

不只是这周怎么样，而是你整个人的状态如何。

Not just how are you doing this week, but how are you doing?

你觉得自己现在的生活安排得怎么样？

How does it feel about how things are lined up for you?

她听到我的使命宣言——其中一个版本后，直接说：听起来挺沉重的，但你本人一点都不觉得沉重。

And when she heard my mission statement, one of the versions of it, she just said that seems, you know, it seems heavy and you don't feel heavy.

就是从那时起，我在结尾加了个‘笑’字。

And that's when I added laugh to the end of it.

我们选择做的这些工作，追求正义，往往会带来很大压力，引发很多焦虑，尤其是现在，很多人都立场极端对立。

You know, some of the work that we choose to do and seek justice can cause a lot of tension, can cause a lot of anxiety, especially right now in so many people having polarized positions.

而‘笑’这个字就是在提醒：别把一切都看得太重。

And laugh just says, don't take it all so seriously.

所以学会笑，笑自己，笑这处境，是一种非常宝贵又美好的品质。

And so finding ways to laugh, to laugh at ourselves, to laugh at the situation, that's a really important and wonderful additional attributes.

但当我跟别人聊怎么构建这样的东西时，我总会问：你漏掉了哪个词，那个你特别想放进来的词？

But it's also kind of when I tell people about how you might wanna build this, It's kinda like what word did you leave out that you really wanna make sure you get in there?

对我来说，那就是感恩、感激，或者笑，因为你真的得会笑。

And for me, it was either gratitude or grateful or laugh because you gotta laugh.

离开微软的时候，感觉很难吗？

Was it hard to leave Microsoft?

等我走的时候，一点都不难。

Not by the time I did.

那时候，我真的该离开微软了。

It was really time for me to leave Microsoft.

我觉得自己在某种程度上已经不再适合那里了。

Felt I had at some level outgrown it.

我做的唯一一件有点勇气的事，就是没等抓稳新的，就先放开了旧的。

I mean, probably the only brave thing I did was step away and let go before I grabbed.

但我很快就抓住了新的。

But I grabbed so quick.

我的意思是，我确实有整整二十四小时没去抓下一件事。

I mean, there was just like twenty four hours where I didn't grab onto the next thing.

你知道吗？你最早给我的职业建议之一，我现在经常重复，就是你说‘要学会放手’。

You know that's one of the first pieces of career advice that you gave me that I repeat all the time, which is you said Let to go.

对，你说这世界上最难的事，就是在一只手没抓住下一级台阶的时候，先松开这一级。

Yeah, you said the hardest thing in the world is to let go of one rung of the ladder without your hand on the other rung.

是的，不过不是那样。

Yeah, so, no.

就是觉得时候到了。

It it felt like it was time.

挺害怕的。

It was scary.

那种害怕是个人层面的，比如我接下来该做什么？

It was scary in kind of a personal, what am I gonna do next?

但离开微软本身并不可怕。

But it wasn't scary leaving Microsoft.

是的

Yeah.

然后你说你接下梦工厂的工作，是因为听起来很酷。

And then you said you took the DreamWorks job because it sounded cool.

我的意思是，杰弗里·卡岑伯格和史蒂文·斯皮尔伯格亲自打电话来。

I mean, Jeffrey Katzenberg and Steven Spielberg were on the phone.

我当时就是那种别人一说，我就容易答应的人。

You you just kind of just I'm a just say yes kinda girl.

对吧？

Right?

所以我宁愿先答应下来，再慢慢收拾烂摊子，也不愿意错过机会。

So this I I would rather say yes accidentally, you know, and have to unwind it than than let something go.

而且他们真的特别有魅力。

And they were so cool.

对吧？

Right?

微软是做软件的高手，但从来没人说我们很酷。

Microsoft was a great builder of software, but nobody ever really called us cool.

真的没人这么说过。

They just didn't.

所以我承认，我确实被那种‘很酷’的感觉吸引了一下。

So I think I was seduced a bit by how cool that would be.

明白了。

Okay.

后来比尔和梅琳达来找你，问你有没有兴趣和他们一起做慈善事业。

And so then Bill and Melinda came to you and asked if you might want to start working with them on their philanthropic stuff.

当时是什么让你觉得，你需要一个使命宣言，或者需要外界的帮助来做这个决定？

And what was it about that moment that made you feel like you needed a mission statement or needed help in that decision making?

我不是说，如果有人告诉你，这两个人愿意从零开始，用他们的财富去改变社会的不平等——我们目标一致，只是角度不同——大多数人不会拒绝这样的机会。

It wasn't just I mean, I think most people would say if these people are ready to have a blank sheet of paper and try to figure out how to use their wealth to change inequity in society, which we had these similar goals, but from different lenses, most people would say yes to that.

真正让我觉得需要一套框架的，是我同时还答应了Kinkos的董事会职位。

The thing that probably moved me further towards needing a framework was I also said yes to the Kinkos board.

我当时在阿拉斯加航空的董事会。

I was on the Alaska Airlines board.

我还在维亚康姆的董事会。

I was on the Viacom board.

所以我答应了，因为这些机会能让我学习，发挥我擅长的能力，诸如此类。

So I said yes because of these opportunities to learn, to use what I knew how to do, all of those things.

但那些决定其实不太妥当——不是说做这些事本身有什么错，而是它们占用了我本该用来追求正义、付出爱与感受爱的时间。

And it just was those were a bad batch of decisions because there was nothing wrong with doing them, but they limited the opportunity for me to spend the time on seek justice, spend the time on love and be loved.

它们也没能让我持续成长。

And they didn't fulfill keep learning.

后来我逐步退出了那些董事会，幸好有盖茨基金会，它和我想做的事高度契合，我可以跟他们说：我想把全部精力投入到疫苗研发、儿童营养改善，以及探索美国教育的可能上。

But I unwound those, and it was helpful that I had the Gates Foundation which aligned so much with what I needed to do because I could explain to those people, look, I wanna pour everything I've got into this effort to find an answer for vaccinations, to do something about childhood nutrition, to see what we can learn about education in The United States.

在接下来几年里逐步退出这些公司董事会，让我深刻体会到：做决定要慢一点。

And unwinding those corporate boards over the next couple of years was a very big lesson for me in make your decision slowly.

做决定要慢一点。

Make your decision slowly.

而且听起来，你似乎意识到自己当时有些失衡。

And it also sounds like almost like you realized there was an imbalance.

你太侧重于学习的价值，却忽略了追求正义这一块。

Like you'd leaned like too hard on the learning value, but you hadn't paid attention to the seek justice piece.

听起来，这其中其实有个平衡的问题。

Like it sounds like there was a balance piece to it as well.

一开始，盖茨基金会规模很小。

Well, at the beginning, the Gates Foundation was small.

对吧？

Right?

我们当时在雷德蒙德市中心一家披萨店楼上办公，每周末要是得加一个人，就得搬动桌椅。

I was above a pizza restaurant in Downtown Redmond where we moved the desks around on the weekend if I had to add one person.

对吧？

Right?

那时候真的特别小。

So there were it was teeny tiny.

我们当时用Quicken来做账。

We did the books out of Quicken.

虽然我知道他们的抱负，但我还是觉得自己有大量余力。

So even though I knew what their ambition was, I still felt like I had a lot of capacity.

于是我就把这份余力用在了其他许多需要我的地方。

And so I started applying that capacity to a range of other things where people wanted me.

被人需要确实让人受用，不过我觉得我可能有点松懈了；后来有了一个更清晰的框架，能随身带着、随时拿来对照，这才让我真正聚焦起来。

And there is flattery in being wanted, but yeah, I think I just Maybe I just got a little sloppy and having a more focused framework that you literally can carry around and put things against it really helped me focus.

完全对。

Totally.

你当时拿出了一张纸。

You waved a piece of paper.

也就是说，你每天都会用这个使命宣言来指导工作。

So, like, you actually use this mission statement every day.

对吧？

Right?

你有个表格，用来安排这些事怎么融入日常生活。

You have a form for how it integrates into your day.

你能说说这个表格具体是怎么用的吗？

Will you just talk through what that is?

对。

Yeah.

这一列是那些核心价值：爱、被爱、追求正义、持续学习、欢笑和玩耍。

So down this side are those big love, be loved, seek justice, keep learning, laugh, and play.

我大部分的活动都对应着这些条目。

And I most of my activities line up underneath those.

但我另外还设了一列，用来记个人事务和公益或企业相关的事，因为生活中总有些非做不可的琐事，对吧？

But then I have a a column for personal business and corporate nonprofit because there's just a lot of stuff you gotta do in life, right?

我家后院的围栏出了问题，这类事也得列进去。

I've got an issue with the back fence in the house, and I've got those things have to be on the list too.

所以我把它们都合并到一起，让短期的、长期的、重要的、非做不可的，全都集中在一个地方。

So I merge them so that the short term and the long term, the very deep and the very you just gotta do it, all come to one place.

这个清单对我来说太重要了，昨晚我跟女儿桑迪提起我要做这个播客，她还跟她丈夫说，我有多依赖这个方法。

And it's such a regular touchstone for me that I was telling my daughter, Sandy, last night about the fact that I was gonna do this podcast, and she was explaining to her husband how much I use this process.

我跟他们说，他们八岁的女儿黛拉会特意检查清单上是不是还写着‘黛拉，去Framebridge把那幅画装框’，因为她知道我还没给她办这件事，而这件事就写在上面。

And I was telling them that their eight year old daughter, Della, checks to see that it still says, Della, get the thing framed at Framebridge on it because she knows she's still waiting for me to get this one particular piece of memorabilia framed for her, and it's on there.

她明白，只要写在清单上，迟早都会做完。

And she knows if it's on the list, it'll eventually get done.

等等。

Wait.

所以，我想我理解得对吧？你其实用的是一张纸，左边列着这些人生使命，还有一些分类。

So so and I think this is right, but you have basically a a a form sheet of paper that you use that has this, like, the the mission statement down the left side and some categories.

横着是标题，竖着是分类。

Across the top and then down the side.

在‘爱与被爱’这一项下，我会列出我想去爱和希望被谁爱的人。

And so under love and be loved, I have subheadings for the people that I wanna love and be loved for.

我会确认自己为朋友做了些什么，能让关系更进一步。

So I make sure what am I doing with friends that's gonna take it the next step.

我最近对桑迪的家人做了些什么？

What am I doing with with Sandy's family?

我最近对马特的家人做了些什么？

What am I doing with Matt's family?

我最近对迈克做了些什么？

What am I doing with Mike?

我得挑几件具体的事，好让我对明年和迈克在‘爱与被爱’这件事上有个更全面的规划。

And try to pick some things so I have a bigger picture of what I wanna do about Love and Be Loved with Mike in this coming year.

所以我们主要关注这些大事。

So we work on those big things.

但同时我也会留意细节，比如这个周末，Arena Stage有一部他特别喜欢的音乐剧，我提前查好了，已经记在上面了。

But then I make sure that this weekend, Arena Stage has a musical that he loves, so I looked at that ahead of time, and we've got that on there.

所以这张表上既有宏观的规划，也有微观的安排。

So it's a combination of the things that are telescope and things that are microscope on there.

一些需要长期关注的大事，还有一些本周或今天就一定要完成的小事。

Big things I wanna get keep my eye on and things I just gotta I just wanna get done this week or this day.

帕蒂，你会打印出来吗？

And do you print, Patty?

是每周都换新的，还是用一个月？

Is it a new one every week or do you use it on a monthly basis?

一个月一次。

Once a month.

明白了。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

就是随便写写画画。

Nothing just scribble all over it.

你注意到了吧，这上面是各种漂亮的排版。

You notice it's a combination of pretty prints.

这是二月一号的。

This was February 1.

这是一张漂亮的图案，上面还布满了各种小涂鸦。

It's a pretty print and then a lot of little scribbles all over it.

它能帮你理清自己的行动和日常事务，跟真正重要的事之间有没有脱节，让你更容易发现其中的差距。

And it just lets you kind of track how your actions and your the things that you need to do map to the things that are important to you so you kind of notice if there's a gap?

没错。

Yes.

说实话，你的很多听众可能都处在职业中期，可以借此回顾一些关键节点。

And to be honest, a lot of your listeners are probably mid career, so they can look at certain milestones.

但我现在所处的职业阶段不同，我听过不少半退休或已退休的人说，时间就像细沙从指缝里溜走，到头来都不知道自己到底收获了什么。

I'm at a different point in my career and I've heard many people who are semi retired or retired say that the time just falls like sand through the sieve and they're not sure what they get at the end of it.

所以，这种记录方式也帮我在回望时确认：是的，我确实在推动正义这件事上尽了力。

And so this also helps me with that retrospective look to say, yeah, I did do my part for seeking justice.

知道自己的点滴努力最终汇聚成了一件有意义的事，这种满足感也很重要。

And so it's a level of satisfaction that you get too by knowing this adds up to doing a good job.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Yeah.

那在你运营玛莎的餐桌或者担任《华盛顿邮报》临时首席执行官的时候，情况有什么不同吗？

So was it different when you were doing things like running Martha's Table or when you were interim CEO of The Washington Post?

比如，当你真正在职工作时，你会用不同的方式去使用它吗？

Like, do you use it differently when you are actively in a job?

不会。

No.

不过我会去负责邮局那边。

But I'll use the running the post.

就像我刚才说的，杰夫·贝佐斯真的在一次关于亚马逊的会议上走到我跟前，跟我说，你知道的，我觉得我可能需要点帮忙。

So as I said, literally, Jeff Bezos came up to me at at a a at a meeting we were at that was about Amazon and said, you know, I'm I think I'm gonna need some help.

你有没有可能过来帮帮我，接手邮局的工作？

Is there a chance you could step in and help me at the post?

我直接就答应了，说好啊。

And I just said, oh, yeah.

哦，当然。

Oh, yeah.

我完全可以胜任。

I could do that.

于是我腾出时间，干了六个月。

So I cleared the decks and did it for six months.

我特别喜欢那份工作。

And I loved that job.

但那是个每天十二小时全职投入的工作，另外还有六小时，你根本放不下，因为像《华盛顿邮报》这样的地方，担子实在太重了。

But it is a twelve hour a day direct work and another six hours where you can't get your mind off of it because there's so much that a job like a place like The Post takes on.

所以我意识到，‘爱与被爱’这个项目当时就这么大，而‘持续学习与追求正义’的体量则大得多。

So what I realized was that Love and Be Loved was getting about this big and to keep learning and seek justice was really big.

但以我现在的年纪——今年都快七十了——我不愿意再把‘爱与被爱’塞进一个袖珍的小抽屉里。

But I was unwilling at this age, I'm almost 70 this year, I was unwilling to have Love and Be Loved kept in a pocket sized compartment.

我需要它现在就成长起来，因为家庭、人生，还有我所处的这个阶段，都要求如此。

I needed that to grow right now for reasons in my family, my life, and my time of life.

所以我决定不长期做下去，这很难，因为这份工作恰恰契合了我内心真正认同的价值。

And so I said no to doing it long term, which was hard to do because it fulfilled much of what I really find resonance with.

一个好的框架，正是让你能做出这种艰难决定的关键。

And that's what a really good framework will let you do is make even the hard decisions.

是的。

Yeah.

听起来这个框架帮你分清了什么时候该全力投入——比如暂时接手这个过渡角色，什么时候该坚决拒绝，因为你整体的平衡已经被打破。

It sounds like it both helped you know when it was sort of a full body yes to the do this temporarily, help out in this interim capacity and full body no because you were so framework was out of balance.

我需要一个框架，原因之一是我自己很容易失衡。

One of the reasons I need a framework is because I can be an out of balance kinda girl.

你知道的，我就是那种想到就干的人，对吧？

You know, I mean, that I am a go for it girl, right?

不管是‘持续学习’，还是‘追求正义’，或者其他任何事，我都会一头扎进去。

Whether that is on the keep learning or on the seek justice or whatever, I am just gonna go for it.

把球给我，我立马就冲。

Give me that ball, I'm going to run.

所以，一个能让我全面评估自己是否在各方面都得到满足的框架，对我而言不仅关乎价值观，也关乎我的个性。

And so a framework that allows me to assess whether I'm fulfilling across the board is very important for my values, but also my personality.

是的，我一直觉得你是个全身心投入的人，这点我很认同。

Yeah, that's I do think of you as a whole body person, so that resonates.

我想聊聊玛莎餐桌，我记得你当时在那儿工作时跟我说过，这感觉就是我命中注定要做的事。

I wanna talk about Martha's Table because I remember when you were in that job, you said to me, This feels like the work that I was meant to do.

所以我很好奇，你能说说你是怎么选择去那里的吗？又是怎么用你的使命宣言引导你走到那一步的？

So I am curious, like, talk a little bit about how you chose to do that and how you used your mission statement to end up there.

另外，我们当然也该介绍一下玛莎餐桌是什么，它具体做些什么。

Also, obviously, we should share what Martha's Table is and what it does.

对。

Yeah.

玛莎餐桌是一个总部设在华盛顿特区的组织，通过食物、教育和家庭支持服务，努力提升华盛顿特区的公平与机会。

So Martha's Table is a very DC based organization that uses both food and education and family interventions, family opportunity, to really try to increase equity and opportunity in Washington, DC.

在食物方面，这个国家、这座城市都存在着严重的食物分配不均问题。

So with food, there is an enormous amount of food inequity in this country and in this city.

我丈夫迈克尔早就一直是Martha's Table的捐助者，每年节假日都会捐一点钱，像这样的家庭在华盛顿特区有成千上万。

And Michael, my husband, had long been a supporter at Martha's Table, small checks every holiday, which thousands of families across DC had done.

所以我们总会收到一些看起来有点土气、制作也比较简陋的通讯简报。

And so we would get these newsletters that were a little hokey and a little cheap.

我每次看到都会仔细读，慢慢了解这个组织。

And I'd see them and I'd look at them and learn about them.

我们刚搬来不久，就看到一则消息，说他们在招聘新的首席执行官。

And then shortly after we moved here, saw one that said they were looking for a new CEO.

我当时就想，这个职位我做得来。

And I thought, I could do that.

于是我就开始琢磨，该怎么申请才好。

And so I had to figure out how do I apply.

他们一开始并不觉得我是认真的。

And they didn't really think I was serious.

他们觉得我可能只是随便做一年，然后就走了。

They thought that maybe I was just gonna do it for a year and walk away.

但幸运的是，有几个人出面跟他们说：不，她真的非常认真，之前在盖茨基金会负责过数十亿美元的项目。

But thankfully, a couple of people intervened and told them, Oh no, yes, she's had this great big job at the Gates Foundation moving billions of dollars, but she's dead serious.

所以她说要干，那就是认真的。

So she says she's gonna do it, she's dead serious.

这又是一个平衡的问题。

So that again was a matter of balancing.

我之前做过大规模的追求正义的工作，现在我想找一个更贴近人心、把爱与正义结合起来的事业。

I had done this big scale seek justice and I was ready to do something that married the love beloved and seek justice a little closer.

这对我来说特别有成就感。

And that was just so fulfilling for me.

虽然有些方面我并不是最理想的领导者，但有很多地方，我觉得自己能把爱与正义融合在一起，同时不断学习。

There were many parts of it that I wasn't an ideal leader for, but there were many parts where I felt like I was able to marry the love and be loved with the seek justice and keep learning.

我在那里的每一天都在学习。

I was learning every day that I was there.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，Patty，我很好奇，这个使命宣言有没有在你处理玛莎餐桌或其他地方的冲突时帮上忙？有没有哪次它让你在特别艰难的决定中找到了方向？

So Patty, I am curious, like, if the mission statement has helped you make decisions either at Martha's Table or somewhere else where there was conflict, was there a time when it's helped you sort of through, yeah, just a moment of really hard decision making?

其实也不只是关于做决定，有时候当你发声，尤其是在风险很高的时候——

Well, it's not even always decision making that sometimes when you use your voice, when it's very risky, right?

我曾参加过一些董事会，讨论公平问题，比如女性在哪里、有色人种在哪里，或者如何以包容的方式推进某件事，这些话题往往不受欢迎。

So I've been in boardrooms where discussion of equity and discussion of where are the women at the table or where are the people of color at the table or how are we gonna do X in a way that's inclusive was not a very popular discussion.

但你得用好自己手头的东西，对吧？

But you gotta use what you have, right?

有一次，一位董事会成员事后说：‘这一个小时白花了，最后就搞了个讨论。’

And I actually had one situation where a board member afterward just said, well, that was a lost hour because we ended up having a discussion.

但你得说：‘对你来说是浪费，对我而言绝对是好事，对整个使命来说也可能是好事。’

And you have to say, lost for you, definitely good for me, probably good for a broader mission.

所以很多时候，就是这种选择：你在哪里发声，在哪里动用你的影响力，在哪里投入你的时间。

So a lot of it is just that kind of choice making of where do you use your voice, where do you use your power, where do you use your time.

这种事一再发生。

And it happened over and over again.

在玛莎餐桌，你知道的，大家都希望我们做很多不同的事情。

And at Martha's Table, as you know, people wanted us to do a lot of different things.

对吧？

Right?

但我们不得不拒绝。

And we had to say, no.

我们发现，最该专注的还是食物和教育，再把家庭项目逐步完善起来。

It looks like our highest and best use is stick to food and education and then fill out these family programs.

每次董事会，他们都想让我们干一大堆别的事。

Every board meeting, they wanted you to do a ton of different things.

所以我不断回到自己的使命宣言，思考玛莎餐桌如何与之契合，又该在哪里发力；它也让我明白，什么时候该放手，让更贴近一线工作的人来接棒。

So constantly going back both to my personal mission statement and figuring out also how Martha's Table fit into that and where did that live, but it also told me when it was time to go, when it was time for a leader that was closer to the work to come in.

明白了。

Okay.

我想试着给大家一些实用的方法，如果能自己上手就最好；如果不行，那就拿我当个例子，看看能走多远。

So I I I wanna just try to give people the tools to do this for themselves if they can, then we're gonna use me as a guinea pig, and we'll see how far we can get.

但我很好奇，比如说我想写一个使命宣言，要么我一片空白，要么像我这样，已经有一套价值观了，但我一直特别羡慕你的使命宣言。

But I am curious, like, let's say I wanna make a mission statement and either I have nothing or in my case, have a set of values, but I I've always been jealous of your mission statement.

我已经准备好了。

So I'm ready.

随时可以开始帕蒂的教程了。

I'm ready for the Patty tutorial.

到底有哪些关键要素？

Like, what are the essential building blocks?

该从哪儿开始呢？

How do you start?

我觉得其实就几个问题。

Well, I think there's just a couple of questions.

第一个是，你希望在家庭里、在同事面前、在生活里，以什么样的姿态出现？

And the first one is how do you wanna show up in your family with your colleagues with life?

你希望怎样呈现自己？

How do you wanna show up?