我们生命中的原声带

嗯，我认为，你知道，创新空间很重要。

Well, I think that, you know, like, it's important to have, like, space for innovation.

同样重要的是，在某些时候要认识到，即使某项行为获得授权或合法，也不意味着没有理由重新思考商业模式和激励机制应如何建立，以回馈生态系统中的所有参与者。

And it's also important at some point to recognise that, okay, maybe even if it's authorised or legal to do something, it doesn't mean that there's no grounds to sort of rethink how business models and incentive mechanisms are put in place to reward all the actors of an ecosystem.

我认为像我们这样的AI公司和其他公司应该有数据训练的权利，但这并不意味着我们不愿意与他人合作，确保这项技术未来能惠及所有人。

I think that AI companies like ours and others should have a right to train on data, but it doesn't mean that we're not willing to work with others, you know, to make sure that going forward, this technology works for everyone.

我是说，我们正在进入一个全新的时代——虽然我讨厌用这个词——内容创作的时代。

I mean, we're talking about entering an entirely new era of I mean, I hate to use the word, but content creation.

我猜有些人担心原创性的问题。

I guess some people worry about originality.

如果我们基于已有作品进行创作，那么人类的独特性在哪里？

If we are making things based on something that's already been made, where's the human strangeness in all of that?

我认为这是个合理的问题，但我不认为我们未来会只在Spotify上听AI音乐。

I think that's a fair question, but I don't think that, you know, we're all gonna listen to only AI music on Spotify going forward.

我觉得这不是重点。

I think that's not really the point.

不过，我认为我们和其他公司开发的这类工具有新的应用场景。

However, I I think that there's new use cases for the type of tools that we and others are building.

例如，音乐教育就是一个。

For example, one is music education.

我们看到很多人使用AIVA来理解音乐是如何创作的。

So we see a lot of people using AIVA to understand how music is created.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以音乐学校正在用它来训练学生创作某些他们不太擅长的音乐类型。

So music schools are are using it to to train students on on how to create certain type of music that maybe they're not as comfortable creating.

嗯。

Mhmm.

另一个例子是为互动媒体（如电子游戏）创作互动音乐。

Another example is creating interactive music for interactive medias, like video games.

我认为这是人工制作的音乐难以规模化实现的。

I think that's not something that's scalable with human made music.

因此，AI音乐非常适合那些尚未被充分探索或对人类创作音乐来说不够优化的应用场景，而且这并不一定会与人类音乐形成竞争。

So there's all these other use cases that are not currently explored or as optimized for human created music that AI music is perfect for, and that is not gonna necessarily compete against human music.

这让我们回到你最初的想法——为日常生活创作配乐，不仅仅是建立播放列表，而是真正用音乐为生活谱写乐章。

And and that brings us back to the original idea you had, this idea of crafting a soundtrack to fit your day, not not just by building a playlist, but by really scoring music to your life.

我是个超级音乐爱好者。

So I'm a huge listener of music.

我每天大概要听三到四个小时的音乐，具体时间我也说不准。

I listen to probably, I don't know, three to four hours of music every day.

特别是作为程序员，我想很多程序员工作时都喜欢听音乐。

I mean, especially as a programmer, think lots of programmers tend to listen to music while they work.

音乐能放大我生活中的某些情感或正在发生的特定事件。

It helps magnify certain emotions or certain things that are happening throughout my life.

因此有机会将这种体验提升到新高度，用音乐为每个人的生活和私人时刻配乐，让人们以全新的方式与音乐互动。

And so there was an opportunity to really get to the next level of that and and soundtrack everybody's life and and everybody's personal moments with music and get people engaged with music in completely novel ways, essentially.

如果把音乐个性化到这种程度，我认为真的能让更多人爱上音乐创作，本质上把每个人都变成创作者。

If you personalize music to that extent, I think you can really get more people excited about creating music and essentially turn everyone into a creator.

这是皮埃尔·巴罗。

That was Pierre Barreault.

他是AVA公司的首席执行官兼联合创始人。

He's CEO and cofounder of AVA.

你可以在ted.com上观看他的完整演讲。

You can watch his full talk at ted.com.

我和皮埃尔在2025年2月有过交谈，而那个ChatGPT时刻，显然已经到来了。

Pierre and I spoke in February 2025, and that chat GPT moment, well, it has clearly arrived.

AI生成的音乐如今在社交媒体和流媒体平台上已十分常见，甚至登上了公告牌排行榜。

AI generated music is now common on social media, streaming platforms, even reaching the billboard charts.

尽管版权诉讼仍在进行，全球最大的音乐公司环球音乐集团已宣布与Oudio达成授权协议并建立合作伙伴关系。

While copyright lawsuits are ongoing, the world's largest music company, Universal Music Group, announced a licensing deal and partnership with Oudio.

今天节目要探讨的主题是：我们生活的原声带。

On the show today, the soundtracks of our lives.

我们已经讨论了很多关于音乐的话题，但实际上，我们绝大多数时间听到的都是人声——比如我来录音室路上的声音。

So we've talked a lot about music, but, really, almost all the time, what we hear are voices like me on my way to the studio.

欢迎来到纽约现场。

Welcome to NYC now.

我戴着耳机。

I've got my earbuds in.

你获取本地新闻的来源，还带着我的狗。

Your source for local news in a Got my dog with me.

好的。

Okay.

我们过马路吧。

Let's cross.

我们过马路吧。

Let's cross.

快点。

Quick.

快点。

Quick.

快。

Quick.

路上我会停下来喝杯咖啡。

On the way, I'll stop for coffee.

她被宠坏了。

She's spoiled.

好吧。

Alright.

谢

Thank

谢你，AJ。

you so much, AJ.

听听这繁忙的街道。

Listen to the busy street.

指着。

Pointing.

但当我坐到麦克风前时，我常会意识到自己听到最多的声音

But by the time I sit down to my microphone, I'm often reminded that the voice I hear the most.

好的

Okay.

是的

Yes.

我是一个声音

I am a voice.

我自己的声音

My own.

让我们先请你

Let's just start by having you

大多数人每天都在使用自己的声音，却不知道它是如何运作的

Most of us use our voice on a daily basis, but have no idea how it works.

即便是长期研究声音的科学家，仍有许多未解之谜

And even scientists who've been researching it for a long time, there's still a lot of mystery.

这位是丽贝卡·克莱因伯格。

This is Rebecca Kleinbergier.

她是东北大学人类学与语音技术教授，她的研究主要聚焦于我们与自身声音的关系——我们听自己声音的感受，以及我们认为声音给他人留下的印象。

She is a professor of humanics and voice technology at Northeastern University, and much of her research focuses on the relationship we have to our own voice, what it sounds like to us, and how we think it comes across to

他人。

others.

我们每个人都与自己的声音有着某种联系。

All of us have some sort of relationship with our voice.

尽管它极为熟悉，我们却对自己的声音感到相当陌生。

And although it's extremely familiar, we're also very much estranged from our own voice.

但我们的声音始终与我们同在。

But our voice is with us constantly.

你如何看待这一点？

How do you see it?

你可以把声音想象成你赠予他人的礼物。

Well, you can kind of think about the voice as a gift you give to others.

你的声音本就不是给你自己听的。

Your voice is not meant for you to listen to it.

我们的身体内部有许多不同的节奏。

There's a lot of different rhythm within our own body.

我们行走的节奏。

The rhythm of how we walk.

我们心跳和呼吸的节奏。

The rhythm of our own heartbeat and our own breathing.

同样地，作为声音，这些都是我们生命中的某些节拍。

And similarly as a voice, all of that are some of the tempos in our lives.

它们是我们生命的节拍器，但我们却意识不到它们的存在。

They are metronomes of our lives, but we are not conscious of them.

所以你可以把自己的声音视为生命背景音乐的一部分。

So you could think of of your voice as part of the background ambient music of your life.

丽贝卡将我们脑海中听到的声音称为内在之声。

Rebecca calls the voice we hear in our heads the inward voice.

她解释说，存在一些机制可以解释为何我们听到的声音是外在声音经过过滤后的安静版本。

And she says there are mechanisms that explain why we hear that voice as a quieter, filtered version of the outward voice we project onto the world.

为什么我们对它如此陌生？

Why is it that we're so unfamiliar with it?

为什么这不是我们听到的声音？

Why is it that it's not the voice that we hear?

以下是Rebecca Kleinbergier在TED舞台上的演讲。

Here is Rebecca Kleinbergier on the TED stage.

让我们思考一下这个问题。

So let's think about it.

让我们尝试理解这种内在声音的感知机制。

Let's try to understand the mechanism of perception of this inward voice.

因为你的身体有许多方式将它过滤得与外在声音不同。

Because your body has many ways of filtering it differently from the outward voice.

要感知这种声音，它首先需要经过你的耳朵。

So to perceive this voice, it first has to travel through your ears.

而你的外在声音通过空气传播，内在声音则通过骨骼传导。

And your outward voice travels through the air, while your inward voice travels through your bones.

这被称为骨传导。

This is called bone conduction.

正因如此，你的内在声音会比外在声音音调更低，也更富有音乐和谐感。

And because of this, your inward voice is going to sound in a lower register and also more musically harmonic than your outward voice.

当声音传导至此时，它需要进入你的内耳。

Once it travels there, it has to access your inner ear.

这里会发生某种特定机制。

And there is a certain mechanism taking place here.

这是一种机械过滤器。

It's mechanical filter.

每次发声时，会有一个小隔膜来保护你的内耳。

It's a little partition that comes and protects your inner ear each time it produces a sound.

所以当你张嘴时，也会略微减弱从耳朵传入的声音。

So when you do open your mouth, you also dampen a little bit the sound that's going to enter from your ear.

我们从对青蛙的研究中了解到一个有趣的现象。

We know that interestingly from studies of frogs.

有些青蛙的叫声极其响亮，响亮到在声源处它们几乎要被自己的声音震聋。

Some of those frogs are extremely loud, so loud that really at the source of them, they should almost be deafened by their own sound.

研究人员发现，当这些青蛙发出声音时，几乎会形成一堵小墙来保护它们的内耳。

And researchers realized that when those frogs make those sound, there's almost a little wall that comes and protect their inner ear.

他们好奇其他物种是否也有这种机制，答案是肯定的，实际上许多物种都有，包括人类。

And they wonder if other species have that, and yes, a lot of species actually have that, even humans.

所以这也会减弱你听到的声音。

So that also reduces what you hear.

然后还有第三道过滤器，是生物过滤器。

And then there is a third filter, it's a biological filter.

你的耳蜗，即内耳中处理声音的部分，是由活细胞构成的。

Your cochlea, the part of your inner ear that processes the sound, is made out of living cells.

这些活细胞会根据它们听到声音的频率做出不同的反应。

And those living cells are going to trigger differently according to how often they hear the sound.

这是一种习惯化效应。

It's an habituation effect.

这些是活细胞，它们以对应不同频率的方式排列。

Those are living cells, they align in a way that corresponds to different frequencies.

并且都有略微不同的触发阈值。

And all have slightly different thresholds in which they fire.

这个阈值会随着我们听到某种声音的多少而变化，意味着如果你经常听到某个声音，一段时间后你的细胞就不会那么频繁地触发了。

And this threshold changes with how much we hear a certain sound, which means that your cells are just not going to fire as much after a while if you hear one sound a lot.

因为你的声音是你一生中听得最多的声音，我们几乎可以简化为：你的内耳中有对自己声音的记忆印记，使得这些细胞触发减少。

And because your voice is the sound you hear the most in your own life, we could almost simplify this thinking that you have an imprint of your own voice inside your own inner ear that makes those cells fire less.

因此你听到自己声音的量也因此更少。

So you hear your your voice even less because of that.

这是字面上降低我们听到的音量，还是仅仅将其过滤掉？

Is it literally reducing the volume of what we hear or just tuning it out?

是过滤掉。

Tuning it out.

这是个敏感度的问题。

It's a question of sensitivity.

终于，我们有了

Finally, we have

一个力量过滤器。

a force filter.

这是个神经学过滤器。

It's a neurological filter.

神经学家最近发现，当你张嘴发声时，自己的听觉皮层会关闭。

Neurologists found out recently that when you open your mouth to create a sound, your own auditory cortex shuts down.

所以你虽然能听到自己的声音，但大脑实际上从不聆听自己声音的声响。

So you hear your voice, but your brain actually never listens to the sound of your voice.

当你听到声音时，无论是他人的声音还是环境声响，大脑会接收信号并快速进行多种分析，以判断声音来源、是否存在危险、如何理解你与对话者的互动及意图。

When you hear sounds in general, whether it is voices of other people or sound in your environment, your brain takes a signal and do a lot of different kind of analysis very quickly to kind of understand where it comes from, whether there's a danger, how you should understand your interaction and the intent of the people you're talking to.

但当听到自己的声音时，大脑的处理方式是不同的。

But when it's your own voice, your brain does not process it the same way.

当你听到自己的声音时，听觉皮层实际上几乎不活跃或活跃度大幅降低。

Your auditory cortex is actually barely active or way less active when you hear your own voice.

其中一个主要理论认为，大脑不需要为自身产生的声音耗费过多能量。

One of the main theory is, well, your brain does not need to spend that much energy when it's your own voice because it's self produced.

这就是我们如何听到自己声音的机制。

So that was how we hear our own voice.

但别人又是如何听到我们的声音的呢？

But how do other people hear us?

稍后回来，我们将继续与研究员丽贝卡·克莱因伯格探讨人们能从我们声音中获取的惊人信息。

When we come back, more with researcher Rebecca Kleinbergier and the surprising things that people can glean from the sound of our voice.

本期节目主题：我们生命中的声音轨迹。

Today on the show, the soundtracks of our lives.

您正在收听的是NPR出品的TED广播时间。

You're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

我是马努什·扎莫罗迪，稍后回来。

I'm Manoush Zamorodi, and we'll be right back.

这里是NPR的TED广播时间。

It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

我是马诺什·扎莫罗迪。

I'm Manoj Zamorodi.

今天的节目主题是：我们生命中的原声带。

On the show today, the soundtracks of our lives.

我们刚刚与声音研究员丽贝卡·克莱因伯格讨论了大脑用来过滤自己声音的各种机制，以免被其干扰。

And we were just talking to voice researcher Rebecca Kleinbergier about the various filters that our brain uses to tune out our own voice so that we're not distracted by it.

但当你听到自己的录音回放时又会怎样呢？

But what about when you hear your own voice played back to you?

为什么我们中这么多人讨厌自己的声音？

Why do so many of us hate the sound of our own voice?

爸爸，能帮我录个视频吗？

Dad, can you do a video of me?

听到的方式和别人不一样。

Don't hear it the same way other people do.

我们没有分析它的机制。

We don't have the mechanism to analyze it.

这就是为什么

That's why it's

当我们听到录音时会感到如此奇怪。

so odd when we hear it recorded.

这是我们第一次开车穿过纪念碑谷，我等待了一生...我听自己声音的录音。

This is our first time driving through Monument Valley and I've been waiting my entire I listen to recording of my voice.

我得说，听自己的声音总是有点尴尬。

It's always slightly awkward, I would say, to listen to my voice.

至少它听起来和我以为的声音很不一样。

At least it sounds quite differently to what I think I sound.

这是相当普遍的现象。

And this is something that's quite universally reported.

我是说，这确实挺有意思的。

I mean, it it is interesting.

比如我小时候，你几乎很少听到自己的声音。

Like, when I was growing up, you didn't hear your own voice often at all.

我是说，这种情况非常罕见。

I mean, it was very rare.

我记得拿到录音机后录下自己的声音再回放，那种感觉几乎令人不安。

I remember getting a tape recorder and recording my own voice and playing it back, and that was so disturbing almost.

但现在人们无时无刻不在录音，拍视频、做播客、留语音备忘录然后回放。

But now, people are recording themselves all the time, videos and podcasts and leaving voice memos and playing them back.

你觉得人们是否在以不同于十年前、二十年前的方式聆听自己，或者逐渐接受自己的声音？

Do you think that people are hearing themselves differently or or making peace with the sound of their own voice in ways that maybe they didn't ten years ago, twenty years ago?

这很矛盾，因为作为物种或动物，我们本不该能听到自己的声音。

It's quite paradoxical because as a species or as the animals we are, we are not supposed to be able to hear our voice.

录音这种将声音使用时序与空间分离的能力，本身就是非常反自然的。

The recordings, the ability to dissociate time and space in terms of the use of the voice is something that's very unnatural.

尽管这类技术已存在很久且使用频率越来越高，但我认为大脑仍有部分未能完全适应。

And even though it's been around for a long time that we have those technology and indeed it's being used more and more often, I believe that there's still a part of our brain that is not completely used to it.

我们的大脑经过如此多年的进化才达到现在的状态，实现了对声音的种种优化，其中大部分都发生在潜意识层面。

Our brain has developed over so, so many years to get to the point where it is to have all those optimization of the voice and so much of it happens at the subconscious level.

当我完全潜意识地听到别人说话时，会自动分析许多超越言语的元素。

When I hear someone else completely subconsciously, I'm going to automatically analyze a lot of different elements beyond words.

我会感知到他们的年龄、性别、健康状况、面部生理特征，甚至鼻子的形状。

I'm going to get a sense of their age, their gender, their health, the physiology of their face, the shape of their nose.

鼻子的形状？

The shape of their nose?

没错。

Absolutely.

人们确实很擅长仅凭声音就能准确估计出鼻子的形状。

You can people are really good at giving a good estimate of nose shape just from hearing voices.

而且人们非常善于通过声音检测激素水平。

And people are really good at detecting hormone levels from the voice.

所有这些超越言语的元素意味着，当我与你交谈时，会自然地流露出许多信息，让你了解到我是谁、我的体型、健康状况、荷尔蒙特征等等。

So All those elements beyond words mean when I talk to you, then I'm going to let a lot of things naturally go that gives you an indication about who I am, about my body shape, about my health, about my hormonal identity, etc.

你的声音与你如何建立人际关系密切相关。

Your voice is also very linked to how you create relationships.

你和每个人交谈时都会使用不同的声音。

You have a different voice for every person you talk to.

如果我截取一小段你的声音并分析，我就能知道你是正在和母亲、兄弟、朋友还是老板说话。

If I take a little snippet of your voice and I analyze it, I can know whether you're talking to your mother, to your brother, your friend or your boss.

我们还可以使用发声姿势作为预测指标，即你决定在与某人交谈时如何放置自己的声音。

We can also use, as a predictor, vocal posture, meaning how you decide to place your voice when you talk to someone.

所以从倾听声音中可以学到很多东西。

So there's a lot to learn from listening to voices.

是啊。

Yeah.

真有趣。

It's funny.

我其实能接受自己在广播里的声音，但我女儿前几天还在取笑我，说我广播时用的声音和平常不一样，嗯哼。

I am I'm okay with listening to my own voice on the radio, but my daughter was making fun of me the other day of the voice that she says I use that's different when I'm on the radio versus, you know Mhmm.

冲他们大喊快出门，因为上学要迟到了。

Yelling at them to get out the door because they're late for school.

显然，用的是另一种声音。

Obviously, a different voice.

是啊。

Yeah.

我认为这其中存在进化原因。

And I think there are evolutionary reasons for that.

此外，我们还有表演用的声音。

Also, the fact that we also have a performing voice.

对吧？

Right?

作为老师，我深有体会。

As a teacher, I know that.

我相信作为电台工作者，你对这点非常熟悉。

I'm sure as radio person, you're very familiar with this.

这是一种表演性质的声音。

And this is a voice of performance.

这是我在世界上展现自我的声音。

It's a voice of how I present myself in the world.

表达这个词的字面意思就是一种声音。

The word expression literally means a voice.

它是向外传递的。

It's it's pressing towards the outside.

我们如何表达自我，我们在世界中的身份就是我们的声音，但这是种我们为世界和想要成为的自己保留的特定声音。

How we express ourselves, who we are in the world is our voice, but is is a specific voice that we reserve for for the world and for who we want to be in the world.

有时当我们回到更熟悉的环境中，突然再次遇见那个人可能会感到奇怪。

And sometimes when we're back into our more familiar environments, it can feel odd to suddenly meet that person again.

哦，这是我吗？

Oh, is this me?

还是作为表演者的我？

Or is this me as a as a performer?

我想我们承担了太多不同的身份，而我们的声音正反映了这一点。

So many different identities, I guess, we take on, and our voice reflects that.

是啊。

Yeah.

这是流动身份的一个标志。

It's a marker for fluid identity.

我觉得这是个不错的思考角度。

I think it's a good way of thinking about it.

那么回到这个问题：为什么我们不喜欢自己的声音？

So if we go back to this question, why don't we like the sound of our own voice?

这实际上关乎表演属性和脆弱性。

It's really the performance aspect, vulnerability aspect.

另一种思考角度是，我们其实在暗自喜欢。

And another way to think about it is that we actually secretly do.

当我们不知道那是自己的声音时，其实相当喜欢自己的声音。

When we don't know that it's our voice, we actually like our voice quite a lot.

研究表明，当人们收听大量不同的声音样本时，其中混入了他们自己的声音样本，但他们并不清楚具体是哪些，也不知道自己的声音被隐藏在其中。

So there are studies in which people were listening to a lot of different voice samples, among which some of them were their own voice samples, but they were not really aware of which one they were or that their voice were kind of hidden in there.

嗯。

Mhmm.

系统性地发现，当人们不知道那是自己声音时，往往会给自己的声音打比他人声音更高的分数。

And systematically, people think to score their own voice higher than other people's voice when they don't know it's their own voice.

所以如果你不知道那是自己的声音，你可能会想'嗯，这声音真不错'。

So if you didn't know it was your voice, you might actually think, oh yeah, that sounds great.

'这声音很好听，很舒服'。

That's a good voice, that's nice.

'我感觉和这个人非常非常合拍'。

I'm feeling very, very in line with this person.

但一旦知道那是自己的声音，就会产生那种因脆弱感而引发的尴尬，意识到自己的声音暴露了多少你本不愿展现的东西。

But once you know it's your own voice, you have this kind of cringe feeling of vulnerability, of realizing how much you reveal in your voice that maybe you wish you did not.

但对于那些难以控制自己声音能力的人呢？

But what about people who struggle with the ability to control their voice?

丽贝卡还在研究帮助口吃患者的方法。

Rebecca has also been researching ways to help people who stutter.

关于口吃最有趣的是，他们的内心声音并不会结巴。

What's really interesting with stuttering is that their inner voice does not stutter.

当他们思考时，不会出现口吃。

When they think, they don't stutter.

当他们默读时，声音也不会结巴。

When they read silently, their voice does not stutter.

所以这实际上是外在声音的失调，是动作准备与执行之间最后那点控制出了问题。

So it's really a discrepancy in the outer voice, that last bit of control between preparing your action and the action coming out.

理解这种现象的一种方式是：当他们要发声时，大脑认为听到的声音与他们想说的话差异过大。

So some of the ways to think about it is they're going to create sound and the brain thinks that there is too much difference between what they hear and what they intend to say.

于是大脑不是让声音自然流出，而是直接重启了整个发声过程。

So instead of letting go of the flow of the voice, it just reboots itself.

比如我说'啊'的时候听到自己声音，就会觉得'这样没问题'。

So if I say ah and I hear I'm like, that's fine.

如果我说着突然听到e或o的音，我的大脑会觉得有些不对劲。

If I say and suddenly I hear e or o, my brain is gonna think something is odd.

潜意识里，我会改变肌肉位置试图回到原本想说的内容。

And subconsciously, I'm gonna change my muscle position to try to go back to what I'm trying to say.

我们认为正是这种重启机制造成了那些时间差上的阻塞、重复或声音延续。

And this reboot is what we think creates those those time difference of blockages, repetition or continuation of sound.

但我想说，口吃患者在唱歌时通常不会口吃。

But I would say, people who stutter most often do not stutter when they sing.

言语与音乐之间的这种差异在口吃现象中非常根本。

This difference between speech and music is quite fundamental in stuttering.

如果我们能欺骗大脑让它以为是在唱歌而非说话，就能帮助口吃者减少言语不流畅。

And if we can trick the brain to make it think that it's singing when it's actually speaking, we could help people stutter reduce their disfluencies.

嗯。

Yeah.

我想知道你是否能介绍一下你正在研究的Mumble Melody项目。

I wondered if you could tell me about Mumble Melody then, this project that you've been working on.

是的。

Yes.

这促成了‘模糊旋律’项目以及多项关于音乐调制听觉反馈的研究。

It's led to the Mumble Melody project and to to several studies of musically modulated auditory feedback.

我接受过言语治疗，从

I've had speech therapy since

这很神奇，因为在你们关于模糊旋律的视频中，有一位女士说话时在某些词上结巴，她正努力克服这些词。

It's fascinating because in the video you have of Mumble Melody, there's a woman who speaks and she is stuttering on certain words she's struggling with.

她专攻口吃治疗。

She specializes in stuttering.

所以

So

然后我们听到她说话时戴着一个耳机，这个耳机大概对她的声音施加了一种滤镜效果。

And then we hear her speak while she's wearing an earpiece that is putting, I guess, you would say a filter on her voice.

这样说准确吗？

Is that fair to say?

确实如此。

Exactly.

一种调制滤波器。

A modulating filter.

我经常使用备忘录应用。

The notes app, I use all the time.

因为想到什么就会忘，所以干脆写下来。

Because if I think of something, I'm gonna forget it, so just write it down.

或者是一些我稍后想深入了解的小事情。

Or, like, little things that I see that I wanna look into later.

所以她在大脑中听到的是自己声音的不同版本。

So she's hearing her voice in a different way in her own head.

但我们听到她说话时却是一种更加流畅、放松的方式，完全没有结巴。

But what we hear when she speaks is a much more sort of fluent, relaxed way of talking, and she she doesn't stumble at all.

我经常使用备忘录应用。

The notes app, I use all the time.

因为如果我想到了什么，我会忘记它，所以就写下来。

Because if I think of something, I'm gonna forget it, so just write it down.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们相信这实际上正在改变大脑用于产生和感知声音的神经通路。

So we believe that this is actually changing the the the brain pathway used in producing and perceiving the voice.

并且在流畅度方面取得了非常好的效果。

And it has led to to really great result in terms of fluencies.

因此我们正在努力个性化所有不同的参数，让人们能够真正根据自己的需求使用它。

So we are really working on personalizing all the different parameters so that that people can really make their own use of it.

关于这个声音我还有一个问题。

I just have one other question about the voice.

你之前提到大脑有一种过滤掉我们内心声音的方式，这样它就不会分散我们的注意力。

You said earlier that the brain has a way of filtering out our inner voice so that it doesn't distract us.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但当我们大声唱歌或自言自语时呢？

But what about when we or sing or talk to ourselves aloud?

我一直有点好奇，我们为什么要费这个劲？

I've I've always kinda wondered why do we bother?

我们其实可以在心里想就行了。

We could just, you know, think it.

我们实际上不需要发出声音。

We don't actually need to make the sound.

是啊。

Yeah.

而且我

And I

我认为理解这一点非常有趣，甚至思考它从何而来？

think this is very interesting to understand and even to think where does it come from?

因为我们有语言，有词汇，但没有这些词汇的声音又意味着什么？

Because we we have language, we have words, but what does a voice mean without those words?

例如，当我阅读一段文字时，我总是带着某种声音在脑海中阅读，无论是自己的声音还是别人的声音。

For example, when I read a text, I'm always reading it with a voice, whether it's my voice, someone else's voice.

如果你读一封来自同事的邮件，你可能会在脑海中用他们的声音来读。

If you read an email that come from a colleague, you might often read it with their voice in your head.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

有时我们甚至无法控制它，因为当我们涉及内心声音时，大脑不断构建这些声音的心理模型。

And sometimes we can't even control it because our brain is constantly making those mental models of voices when it comes to inner sound.

你有时可以想象整首歌或交响乐，但我这里的核心理论是：我们之所以能无声思考，正是因为你自身拥有声音。

You can sometimes imagine an entire song or symphony, but my big central theory here is that we think silently and that is only possible because you yourself have a voice.

所以声音是先于文字存在的。

So sound comes before words.

我想说，过去十五年我一直在研究人类声音，我的主要认识或理论是：超越文字的声音要丰富得多。

And I would say I spent the past fifteen years studying the human voice and my main realization or theory is that the voice beyond word is so much richer.

人们常把声音视为传递文字的载体，但我更倾向于反过来看：文字只是进行声音互动的借口。

You often think of the voice as a vehicle to transmit words, but I like to turn that around and say words are just an excuse to have vocal interaction.

我们通过语音超越文字所分享的内容，实际上更重要的是我们分享着真实的自我。

What we share with each other through the voice beyond the word is really so much more important is we share who we are.

这是丽贝卡·克莱因伯格。

That was Rebecca Kleinberg.

她是东北大学人类学与语音技术专业的教授。

She is a professor of humanics and voice technology at Northeastern University.

你可以在ted.com观看她的完整演讲。

You can see her full talk at ted.com.

我们一直在讨论人类语音和AI生成音乐，但谈到生活配乐时不能不提大自然的声音。

We have been talking about the human voice and AI generated music, but we can't talk about the soundtracks of our lives without mentioning the sounds of mother nature.

音乐家雪鸦在北极西伯利亚长大。

Musician Snow Raven grew up in Arctic Siberia.

作为土著萨卡文化的一部分，她从小就学会了模仿周围动物的声音。

As part of the indigenous Saka culture, she learned at a young age to mimic the animals around her.

不过她敏锐的听觉和再现动物声音的天赋可不仅仅是个小把戏。

Her keen ear and gift for recreating animal sounds aren't just a neat trick though.

正如她所解释的，她的声音模仿将她与西伯利亚的景观连接在一起。

As she explains, her vocalizations connect her to the Siberian landscape.

这是她在2024年TED舞台上的表现。

Here she is on the TED stage in 2024.

这是萨哈原住民互相问候的方式。

This is the way indigenous Sahar people greet one another.

这句话没有确切的英文翻译，但它的意思是：我通过你这个人向宇宙致敬。

This phrase has no exact English translation, but it means, I greet the universe in your person.

我叫雪鸦，来自北极西伯利亚的萨哈共和国，那里是地球上最寒冷的人类居住地，冬季气温可低至零下96华氏度。

My name is Snow Raven, and I'm from The Republic Of Sakhalakutia in Arctic Siberia, the most cold, settled place on Earth where winter's temperature can drop as low as negative 96 Fahrenheit.

在离开萨哈雅库蒂亚六年后，今年夏天我回去探望家人，并拜访了我们祖先的家园。

So after six years being away from Sakhayakutia, I returned this summer to see my family and also visit our ancestral home.

抵达后我做的第一件事就是陷入沉默，静静聆听。

The first thing I did when I arrived was drop into silence and listen.

聆听是宇宙赋予人类与自然连接的强大天赋之一。

Listening is one of the powerful gifts the universe has given humans to connect with nature.

正是通过倾听，我学会了如何模仿大自然。

It is by listening that I have learned how to mimic nature.

我用想象力聆听，并化身为我所听到的动物。

I listen with my imagination and become an animal that I hear.

我像它一样移动。

I move like it moves.

我追寻它所追寻的。

I seek what it seeks.

我随它的啼哭而哭泣。

I cry with its cry.

以猫头鹰卡坎为例，它拥有夜视能力，能环视四周，还能无声飞行。

The owl, kakan, for instance, it has night vision, it can see all around him, and it also flies without making a sound.

艾利亚褐鸢乘着热气流翱翔，欢欣宣告夏季的来临。

The Eylea brown kite soars on the heated air and with joy announces the arrival of the summer.

当我听到潜鸟的叫声时，我能感受到它对伴侣的思念以及对怀中幼雏的爱意。

When I hear the loon, I feel it's longing for its partner alongside its love of the baby it carries.

鹤，这种美丽鸟类的舞蹈，是如此惊艳而神圣，萨卡人相信，能在荒野中目睹鹤舞的人，他们的眼睛是幸福的。

The crane, the dance of this beautiful bird, is so stunning and divine that Saka people believe that the happy are their eyes who even once witnessed the dance of a crane in the wilderness.

驯鹿，塔巴，是苔原的主宰，它们以庞大的兽群奔跑数千英里。

The rangers, Tabba, are lords of tundra, and they run thousands of miles in huge herds.

为了恢复和补充能量，它们拥有一种特殊的呼吸方式。

To restore and recover their energy, they have a special breath.

在狼的嚎叫中，我能听出猎手的孤独，以及对超越肉体自由的渴望。

In a wolf's cry, I can hear the loneliness of the hunter, and it's yearning for the freedom beyond the body.

它望着月亮，渴望与月亮一同翱翔天际。

It sees the moon and wants to join it in the sky.

因此，倾听的超能力在于它为想象力留出了与声音共舞的空间。

So the superpower of listening is that it leaves the room for imagination to dance with a sound.

让我们此刻此地开始倾听，点燃想象力，召唤我们内在的动物超能力。

Let's listen, ignite our imagination and summon our animal superpowers here and now.

那是雪鸦的声音。

That was Snow Raven.

你可以在ted.com上观看她精彩的演讲。

You can watch her amazing talk at ted.com.

非常感谢您收听本节目，让它成为您生活配乐的一部分。

Thank you so much for listening to the show and making it part of the soundtrack of your life.

本期节目由Rachel Faulkner White、Fiona Guerin、James Della Hussi和Matthew Cloutier联合制作。

This episode was produced by Rachel Faulkner White, Fiona Guerin, James Della Hussi, and Matthew Cloutier.

由Sanaa's Meshkampur和我共同编辑完成。

It was edited by Sanaa's Meshkampur and me.

NPR的制作团队成员还包括Katie Monteleone和Harsha Nahada。

Our production staff at NPR also includes Katie Monteleone and Harsha Nahada.

我们的执行制片人是Irene Noguchi。

Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi.

音频工程师团队包括Patrick Murray、Gilly Moon、Jimmy Keeley和Waisie Lee。

Our audio engineers were Patrick Murray, Gilly Moon, Jimmy Keeley, and Waisie Lee.

主题音乐由Ramtin Arablui创作。

Our theme music was written by Ramtin Arablui.

我们在TED的合作伙伴包括克里斯·安德森、罗克珊·海拉什、亚历杭德拉·萨拉查和丹妮拉·巴拉雷佐。

Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Roxanne Hailash, Alejandra Salazar, and Daniella Balarezzo.

我是曼努什·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听的是NPR的TED广播时间。

I'm Manoush Zamorodi, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.