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这是TED电台节目。
This is the TED Radio Hour.
每周带来突破性的TED演讲。
Each week, groundbreaking TED Talks.
我们现在的工作是大胆梦想。
Our job now is to dream big.
在TED大会上发表。
Delivered at TED conferences.
为我们想要看到的未来而努力。
To bring about the future we want to see.
遍及全球。
Around the world.
去理解我们是谁。
To understand who we are.
从这些演讲中，我们为您带来令人惊喜的演讲者和思想。
From those talks, we bring you speakers and ideas that will surprise you.
你根本不知道会发现什么。
You just don't know what you're gonna find.
挑战你。
Challenge you.
我们真的必须
We truly have to
问问自己，为什么这值得注意？
ask ourselves, like, why is it noteworthy?
甚至改变你。
And even change you.
我真的感觉自己变成了另一个人。
I literally feel like I'm a different person.
是的。
Yes.
你
Do you
有这种感觉吗？
feel that way?
来自TED和NPR的值得传播的想法。
Ideas worth spreading from TED and NPR.
我是马努什·扎莫罗迪。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi.
今天节目中，我们谈谈自然智能。
And on the show today, natural intelligence.
我们将从18世纪50年代开始，回到北卡罗来纳州一片沼泽遍布、亚热带的湿地，那里住着一个名叫亚瑟·多布斯的人。
And we're going to kick things off by going back in time to the seventeen fifties and a marshy, swampy, subtropical wetland in North Carolina where a man named Arthur Dobbs lived.
是的。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我喜欢亚瑟·多布斯。
I like I like Arthur Dobbs.
这是我们的导游，格雷格·盖奇。
This is our tour guide, Greg Gage.
他是北卡罗来纳州的总督。
He was the governor of North Carolina.
那是18世纪50年代，仍处于英国统治之下。
This is back in the seventeen fifties, still under British rule.
亚瑟，他说，是个好奇心旺盛的人，有点像一位绅士科学家。
And Arthur, he says, was a curious man, a bit of a gentleman scientist.
所以当亚瑟听说附近长着一种非常奇特的植物时，他决定去一探究竟。
So when Arthur started to hear a rumor about a very unusual plant growing not that far away, he decided to go check it out.
他听到了一些关于这种植物的传闻。
And he heard these stories about this plant.
他说，我是这片土地的总督。
He says, well, I'm the I'm the governor of this land.
我应该去调查一下。
I should go investigate.
他去了沼泽地，那里有一小片区域。
He went out to the swamps, and so there's a little small area.
我觉得大约有六平方英里。
I think it's about six square miles.
在那里，贴近地面生长着这些微小的植物，如果你观察得足够久，就会有昆虫最终掉进去，或者爬过它的叶片，然后植物迅速闭合，把昆虫吃掉。
And then there, low to the ground, are these little tiny plants, and that if you watch them long enough, a bug will eventually fall into its little or walk across its little leaves, and it snapshots and it eats this bug.
因此，他对这个现象非常着迷。
And so, of course, he's pretty fascinated by this.
这很可以理解，因为当时还没有任何欧洲人记录过这样的植物。
Understandable because, well, no Europeans had ever documented a plant like this before.
所以
So
他做了当时科学家们会做的事。
He does what, scientists do at the time.
他们写信给欧洲的同行。
They take out a letter and they write to their colleagues in Europe.
植物界最奇妙的是一种非常奇特的未知敏感物种。
The great wonder of the vegetable kingdom is a very curious unknown species of sensitive.
他写道，这是一种矮小的植物。
He writes, it's a dwarf plant.
叶子像一个狭窄的球体片段，由两部分组成，像弹簧钱包的盖子。
Leaves are like a narrow segment of a sphere consisting of two parts like the cap of a spring purse.
只要有任何东西触碰到叶子或掉落在它们之间，叶子就会立即像弹簧陷阱一样闭合。
Upon anything touching the leaves or falling between them, they instantly close like a spring trap.
对于这种令人惊讶的植物，我给它命名为捕蝇敏感植物。
To this surprising plant, I've given the name of flytrap sensitive.
捕蝇敏感植物，也就是我们今天所说的捕蝇草。
The flytrap sensitive, or as we call it today, the Venus fly trap.
这种奇特的食虫植物的消息在欧洲迅速传播开来。
The news of this remarkable animal eating plant took off across Europe.
一百年后，查尔斯·达尔文写了一本名为《食虫植物》的书。
And a hundred years later, Charles Darwin would write an entire book called Insectivorous Plants.
最终，伟大的查尔斯·达尔文得以研究这种植物，而这种植物彻底让他震惊了。
Eventually, the great Charles Darwin got to study this plant, and this plant absolutely blew him away.
他称其为世界上最有意思的植物。
He called it the most wonderful plant in the world.
这是格雷格·盖奇在TED舞台上的演讲。
Here's Greg Gage on the TED stage.
这是一种具有进化奇迹的植物。
This is a plant that was an evolutionary wonder.
这是一种移动迅速的植物，这在植物中很罕见。
This is a plant that moves quickly, which is rare.
这是一种食肉植物，这同样罕见。
It's a plant that's carnivorous, which is also rare.
这就是同一种植物。
This is the same plant.
但我今天来这里是要告诉你们，这还不是这种植物最酷的地方。
But I'm here today to tell you that's not even the coolest thing about this plant.
最酷的是，这种植物会数数。
The coolest thing is that the plant can count.
让我们暂停一下。
So let's pause for a moment.
格雷格·盖奇不仅仅是个捕蝇草历史爱好者。
Greg Gage is not just an amateur flytrap historian.
他实际上是一位神经科学家和教育家。
He is actually a neuroscientist and educator.
在第十个演示环节，他进行了一次现场科学实验。
And on the tenth stage, he conducted a live science experiment.
所以
So
我现在要假装自己是一只苍蝇。
I'm gonna pretend to be a fly right now.
周围环绕着显示器、显微镜，当然还有植物。
Surrounded by monitors, microscopes, and, of course, plants.
这是我的捕蝇草。
And here's my Venus flytrap.
在叶片内部，你会注意到这里有三根小毛，这些是触发毛。
And inside the leaf, you're gonna notice that there are three little hairs here, and those are trigger hairs.
所以当苍蝇落下来时，我现在就碰一下其中一根毛。
And so when a fly lands, I'm gonna touch one of the hairs right now.
捕蝇草上连接着心电图传感器，用于测量植物产生的电信号。
Attached to the flytrap EKG sensors, measuring any electrical signals generated by the plant.
准备好了吗？
Ready?
一、二、三。
One, two, three.
当格雷格轻触捕蝇草内部的触毛时，显示器亮了起来。
And there, the monitor lit up as Greg grazed the hairs inside the flytrap.
我们得到了什么？
What do we get?
我们得到了一个漂亮的动作电位。
We get a beautiful action potential.
然而，捕蝇草并没有闭合。
However, the flytrap doesn't close.
这是因为它在等待是否在大约二十秒内再次被触碰。
That's because it's waiting to see if it gets touched again within twenty seconds or so.
捕蝇草之所以不急于闭合，有好几个原因。
Venus flytraps don't want to be hasty for several reasons.
第一，如果里面没有苍蝇，重新打开捕虫夹需要很长时间，大约需要二十四到四十八小时。
Number one is that it takes a long time to open the traps back up, you know, about, you know, twenty four to forty eight hours if there's no fly inside of it.
所以这需要消耗大量能量。
So it takes a lot of energy.
第二，它一年并不需要吃很多苍蝇。
And number two, it doesn't need to eat that many flies throughout the year.
它只需要吃几只就够了。
It only needs to eat a handful.
它大部分能量来自阳光。
It gets most of its energy from the sun.
它只是想用苍蝇来补充土壤中的一些营养物质。
It's just trying to replace some nutrients in the ground with the flies.
第三点是，每个捕虫夹只能开合几次，之后就会死亡。
And the third thing is, it only opens and closes the traps a handful of times until that trap dies.
因此，在捕虫夹闭合之前，它必须非常确定里面确实有猎物。
So therefore, it wants to make really darn sure that there's a meal inside of it before this flytrap snaps shut.
那么它是如何做到的呢？
So how does it do that?
它会计算连续触碰那些绒毛之间的时间间隔。
It counts the number of seconds between successive touching of those hairs.
我再碰一下捕蝇草。
I'm gonna touch the Venus flytrap again.
我已经说了二十多秒了，如果我是一只苍蝇在四处移动，我会多次触碰叶片。
I've been talking for more than twenty seconds, and then if I'm a fly moving around, I'm gonna be touching the leaf a few times.
我过去轻轻刷它几下。
I'm gonna go and brush it a few times.
于是捕虫夹立刻闭合了。
And immediately, the flytrap closes.
所以在这里，我们看到捕虫夹实际上在进行计算。
So here, we're seeing the flytrap actually doing a computation.
我的意思是，这种植物看起来挺聪明的。
I mean, that sounds like this plant is pretty smart.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，我的意思是，它确实是在竞争。
It's well, I mean, it definitely is competing.
我总觉得植物挺酷的，因为你知道，人类遇到困境时，可以直接跑掉。
I always think that plants are are kinda cool because, you know, humans, if if there's a rough situation, we can just run away.
对吧？
Right?
或者我们可以直接开溜。
Or we can just kind of, like, get out of dodge.
但这些植物却只能原地不动。
But these plants are stuck there.
它们扎根在土里。
They're in the ground.
对吧？
Right?
所以它们别无选择，只能想办法养活自己。
So they've got they've got nothing to do except for try to feed themselves somehow.
它们想出了非常惊人的方法来做到这一点。
They come up with a very incredible ways of doing that.
我们经常听到关于人工智能的力量。
We hear a lot about the powers of artificial intelligence.
但在我们周围，大自然仍在不断找到非凡的方式生存和交流，而我们才刚刚开始理解这些。
But all around us, nature continues to find extraordinary ways to survive and communicate that we are still just beginning to understand.
所以今天在节目中，我们谈谈自然智能。
So today on the show, natural intelligence.
关于蜻蜓、我们的免疫系统和鲸鱼的最新发现，以及它们如何影响人类行为。
New findings about the brilliance of dragonflies, our immune system, and whales, and how they are influencing human behavior.
不过首先，我们回到格雷格·盖奇。
First though, back to Greg Gage.
他把另一种出人意料敏感的植物带上了TED舞台。
He brought another surprisingly sensitive plant onto the TED stage.
你指的是含羞草，不是那种饮品，而是含羞草（Mimosa pudica）。
You to the mimosa, not the drink, but the mimosa pudica.
格雷格，在你的舞台实验中，你还带来了一种看起来像蕨类的植物，叫做含羞草。
Greg, during your stage experiment, you also had this other plant that kinda looks like a fern, and it's called a mimosa.
这种植物原产于中美洲和南美洲，具有某些行为特征。
And this is a plant that's found in Central America and South America, and it has behaviors.
你只要轻轻碰一下叶子，它就会像
And you just lightly touch the leaves, and it kind of like
会卷起来。
tend to curl up.
会向你萎蔫。
Wilted away from you.
如果我轻敲叶子，整个枝条好像都会垂下来。
If I tap the leaf, the entire branch seems to fall down.
我小时候，我爸爸其实养过一株含羞草。
And my dad actually had a mimosa plant when I was a kid.
我对这种反应着迷。
And I was fascinated by this response.
比如，我一碰它，它就会躲开。
Like, I would touch it and it would pull away from me.
就像说：别碰我。
Like, get off me.
你知道吧？
You know?
是的
Yeah.
所以它实际上与赤铁矿非常相似。
So it's it's actually very, very similar to hematite.
所以就像我们皮肤中的触觉感受器一样。
So there's like a a touch receptor just like we do in our skin.
当我们按压某物时，我们会感觉到，因为有电信号传回大脑，我们将其解读为触觉。
When we press out on something, we feel it because an electrical impulse is being sent back up to our brains and we interpret that impulse as the feeling of touch.
在这片叶子内部，也有非常相似的细胞，能够传递电流。
Inside of this leaf, very similar cells are within there that will send an electrical current.
但这一次，植物不是使用肌肉，而是通过排出水分来使植物移动。
Only this time, instead of using muscles, again uses water to flushes the water out and makes the plant move.
但为什么呢？
But why?
这总是关乎生存吗？
Is it always about survival?
我猜是这样。
I suspect so.
对。
Yeah.
有趣的是，关于含羞草，有几种理论解释为什么当动物擦过时，它看起来——嗯，我现在看着它，它们并不像看起来很好吃的样子。
And it's funny because with the mimosa, there's a couple of theories of why, you know, if an animal brushes past, it doesn't look as I mean, looking at mine right now, they look they don't look very tasty.
对吧？
Right?
也许我会选择吃另一株不同的植物，如果我看到这一株的话。
Maybe I would eat another different plant if I saw that one.
或者也许它会吓跑一些想停在上面的昆虫。
Or maybe it kind of freaks out some insects that would want to land on it.
所以这是一种它们可以实现的学习机制，但与其他一些实验相比，这有点无聊。
So that's a learning mechanism they can do, but it's kind of boring compared to some other experiments that have been done.
有些实验是把豌豆荚放在黑暗中让它生长。
Experiments where you can take a pea pod and you let it grow in the dark.
你有一个小管子向上延伸，形状有点像Y形。
You have like a little tube that goes up and it kind of goes like a Y.
这叫做分叉管。
It's called a bifurcated tube.
如果你在其中一个管子，比如右侧，照射光线，同时在另一个管子吹风，你可以进行这样的实验：先在左侧吹风，再在右侧照射光线。
And if you shine a light in one of the tubes, say on the right side, and you blow a fan on the other one, you can do this protocol where you kind of you blow the fan on the left and then you shine the light on the right.
然后第二天，你在右侧吹风，在左侧照射光线。
And then the next day, you blow the fan on the right, you shine the light on the left.
每天植物都在沿着这个管子向上生长，试图到达顶端。
Each day is kind of growing up this tube trying to get to that top of it.
对吧？
Right?
到了实验当天，就在它即将做出选择时，你再次翻转装置，但这次只吹风。
And then on the experiment day, right where it's about to make a decision, you flip it again, but you only blow the fan.
然后你提出问题：植物会朝哪个方向生长？
And then you ask the question, which way will the plant grow?
它会朝着上次看到光的方向生长吗？这听起来很合理，对吧？
Will it grow where it last saw the light, which makes sense, right?
还是它已经理解了风扇和光之间的关系，从而朝着光即将出现的方向生长？对吧？
Or did it figure out the relationship between the fan and the light and grow to where the light would have been if it's going to come on soon, right?
大多数植物都能大致弄明白这一点。
You get a majority of the plants that kind of figure it out.
它们逐渐意识到，应该朝相反的方向生长，远离上次看到光的地方，而是朝着风扇指示的方向前进。
They kind of figure out that they have to go in the other direction and go away from where the last saw the light, but where the fan was indicating where it would go.
对我来说，这显得相当灵活。
And to me, that's kind of flexible.
这开始展现出一些决策能力。
And then that's starting to show some decisions.
这开始显示出一点智慧。
That's starting to show a little bit of intelligence.
所以，那些成功存活下来的，正是能够继续讲述这个故事的植物。
So it's the ones that made it are the ones that can live on to tell the story.
对吧？
Right?
所以这些基因会被继承并传递下去。
So then those genes get inherited and move forward.
所以我们已经讨论了植物，它们看起来比哺乳动物等生命形式更简单，却展现出非常聪明的行为。
So we have covered plants, which seem like a more simple life form than, say, mammals, yet kind of display some very seriously smart behavior.
但你其实对黏菌非常感兴趣——这么说可能听起来有点奇怪，但你对黏菌真的很兴奋，而黏菌不是植物。
But you are also really interested in seems strange to say this, but you're really excited about slime mold, which is not a plant.
但是
But
不是。
No.
但黏菌是一个细胞。
But a mold is a cell.
对吧？
Right?
黏菌是一个单细胞生物。
A slime mold is a single cell.
它们会待在培养皿里，你给它们喂食。
They they kinda sit in a in a petri dish and you feed them.
你给它们喂一点燕麦，它们会围绕着燕麦生长，吸收养分，并且可以休眠多年，之后又能重新复活。
You feed them little oats, and they kinda wrap around it, they kinda suck up the nutrients, and they kind of can go dormant for many, many years, and they can come back alive again.
它们绝对很迷人，但是
They're absolutely fascinating, but
你可以看到它们的不同阶段。
You can can see them them through stages.
尽管它们是
Even though they're
哦，你知道吗，一个单细胞可能会长达一米。
so Oh, you see, they could be Yeah, they could be A single cell could be like a meter long.
它们可以长得很大。
They could be big.
所以它们是宏观的。
So they're macro.
所以我们做了一个实验。
And so we were doing an experiment.
我们做的其中一个实验是把一块食物放在里面。
One of the experiments we did was we put a piece of food in there.
我们观察了它多久会朝食物移动一次。
We watched how often would it go towards the food.
不出所料，它会频繁地朝食物移动，对吧？
Not surprisingly, it goes towards the food a lot, right?
但黏菌有点儿不喜欢被晒干。
But slime molds are kind of a They don't want to be dried out.
它们不喜欢阳光。
They don't like sunlight.
所以如果你在那儿照光，它们就会避开。
And so if you shine a light there, you know, then they will shy away from it.
它们会试图绕开，但不会穿过光，尽量避免穿过光线。
They'll try to go around it, but they won't go through They try not to go through the light.
如果这是动物，这倒说得通。
That would make sense if it was an animal.
你会想，好吧，它们的眼睛看到了光线。
You're like, okay, well their eyes are seeing it.
眼睛把信息传回大脑，大脑再告诉肌肉该往哪个方向移动。
The eyes are sending the message back to the brain and The brains are telling the muscles which way to go.
但当你意识到，等等，它根本没有大脑，对吧？
But then you realize, wait a minute, there's no brain, right?
没有。
There's no Yeah.
它只是细胞，对吧？
It's just cells, right?
所以它们细胞外部有传感器，会将信息传回，但这些信息是在细胞内部被处理的。
So they have these sensors on the outside of the cell that's sending back information, but that information's being processed inside the cell itself.
所以我认为细胞还有很多值得探讨的地方。
And so I think there's a lot to be said about the cell.
我的意思是，细胞本质上就是一个小型计算机。
I mean, the cell is basically a little computer.
它内部就像一个图灵机。
It's got a little Turing machine inside of it.
它有目标，对吧？
It has goals, right?
它会努力去完成各种事情。
It tries to do things.
因此，它拥有丰富的资源来实现这些目标。
And so it has a lot of lot of things in its resources to be able to do.
我最近去听了一场关于乌鸦的讲座，乌鸦是我们所知唯一会使用工具并表现出时尚行为的鸟类。
I recently went to a lecture about the crows that are the only birds that we know that use fashion and then use tools.
哦，鸦科动物。
Oh, corvids.
是的
Yeah.
它们太神奇了。
They're amazing.
而且时不时地，你会听到一些令人难以置信的故事，这些故事本不该让我们如此震惊，却让我们意识到自然界是多么地聪明。
And just every so often, you hear this incredible story that shouldn't blow our minds, but does about how the natural world is so incredibly smart.
我想知道，我们是否应该扩展对智能的定义呢？
And I guess I'm wondering, you know, should it should it expand our definition of intelligence?
简单来说，我们该如何定义什么是智能？
How how in simple terms, how how do we define what intelligence is?
是的，我认为最简单的说法，就是基于你现有的条件，对吧？
Yeah, I think the simplest way, given what you got, right?
你得想办法实现你想要的目标，对吧？
You got to figure out how to be able to get to what you want, right?
所以，这就是我对智能的粗略理解：在现有条件下，实现你想要的目标。
And so that's kind of my kind of the back of the envelope sketch of intelligence, is being able to get to what you want given what you have.
这就是智能生物所做的事情。
And that's what intelligent things do.
你看看一只狗想穿过一扇门，它会去试试另一扇门。
You look at a dog trying to get through a door, will kind of go check the other door.
它在尝试弄清楚自己需要做什么。
It's doing, it's trying to figure out what it needs to do.
所以你可以把这些植物看作是，比如这些植物在寻找光线，它们在利用自己所掌握的信息来找出解决方案。
And so you can look at these plants as, you know, in the case of these plants are trying to find the light they're doing, they're taking what the information they have to figure that out.
你可以看看单个细胞是如何做到这一点的。
You know, you can look at single cells doing that.
我认为智能的真正乐趣在于每一个生命体。
I think the joy of intelligence is really in every living thing.
我认为每一个细胞都是智能的。
I think every cell is intelligent.
我认为所有源自细胞的事物都是智能的。
I think everything that comes from cells is intelligent.
这是格雷格·盖奇。
That's Greg Gage.
他是密歇根大学的教授，也是Backyard Brains公司的联合创始人，这家公司为孩子们设计神经科学实验。
He's a professor at the University of Michigan and cofounder of Backyard Brains, a company that builds neuroscience experiments for kids.
你可以在ted.com上找到他的所有演讲。
You can find all his talks at ted.com.
今天节目中，我们探讨自然智能。
On the show today, natural intelligence.
我是马诺伊·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听来自NPR的TED电台节目。
I'm Manoj Zamorodi, and you're listening to the Ted Radio Hour from NPR.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
本节目由NPR赞助商《如何成为更好的人》播客提供支持，这是一档来自TED的节目。
This message comes from NPR sponsor, how to be a better human, a podcast from TED.
这是一档为怀疑自助疗法的人打造的节目。
It's a show for the self help skeptic.
TED演讲者通过科学、发人深省的见解和幽默的故事，教你如何成为最好的自己。
TED speakers explain how you can be the best you with science, thought provoking insights, and hilarious stories.
无论你在哪个平台听播客，都可以收听《如何成为更好的人》。
Listen to how to be a better human wherever you get your podcasts.
这是来自NPR的TED播客。
It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
我是马努什·扎莫罗迪。
I'm Manouche Zamorodi.
今天节目中，我们将探讨自然智能——事实上，一些计算机科学家正从中获得灵感，以设计下一代人工智能。
On the show today, natural intelligence, which is actually where some computer scientists are looking for inspiration to design the next generation of artificial intelligence.
是的。
Yeah.
非洲粪金龟会将粪便滚成球，并尽可能快地把它们推走。
So African dung beetles, they roll up balls of feces and balls of dung and roll them away as quickly as they can.
因为即使地球上最小的生物，也能完成一些惊人的壮举。
Because even the smallest creatures on Earth can execute some amazing feats.
所以它们是倒立着的。
So they're standing on their head.
它们用后腿滚动粪球，并利用各种线索确保直线前进。
They're rolling the ball of dung with their hind legs, and they're using various cues to roll in a straight line.
如果是夜行性的，它们会借助月光来确保自己沿直线移动。
If they're nocturnal, they're known to use moonlight to be able to make sure that they're going in a straight line.
如果让我倒立着滚东西，我是做不到的。
And I wouldn't be able to roll anything standing on my head.
这是弗朗西斯·钱斯。
This is Frances Chance.
撒哈拉沙漠蚂蚁在找到食物后，想把它带回蚁巢时，它们知道如何计算回巢的最短路径。
Sahara Desert ants, when they find food and they wanna bring it back to their nest, they know how to calculate the straightest path back to their nest.
弗朗西斯听起来像一位昆虫学家。
Frances sounds like an entomologist.
还有蜜蜂，你知道的，它们也会外出觅食。
Oh, and honeybees, you know, they also forage.
但她实际上是一位计算神经科学家。
But she's actually a computational neuroscientist.
在桑迪亚国家实验室，她研究自然智能如何帮助开发新的安全技术。
At Sandia National Laboratories, she researches how natural intelligence can help develop new security technology.
例如，导弹防御系统可以从蜻蜓身上学到什么。
For example, what missile defense systems might learn from the dragonfly.
它们在自己的领域非常擅长。
So they're very good at what they do.
这些优雅飞舞的生物还使用一种特殊的技术来捕猎。
These graceful fluttering creatures also use a very special technique to hunt.
蜻蜓非常擅长捕猎。
Dragonflies are really good at hunting.
我们知道它们会飞过去拦截猎物。
We know that they fly to intercept their prey.
它们飞得非常快，而且成功率很高。
They fly really fast and they're very successful.
众所周知，蜻蜓能成功捕获其目标猎物的高达95%。
It's known that dragonflies catch up to 95% of the prey that they choose to go after.
尽管它们速度极快，但并不会直接飞向猎物。
And even though they're really fast, they don't just fly straight at their prey.
它们会沿着一条拦截路径飞行，也就是说，它们会瞄准猎物前方的位置。
They fly on an interception pathway, which means they're aiming slightly ahead of where their prey are.
这就像冰球传奇人物格雷茨基说的那样：不要去冰球现在的位置，而是去冰球即将到达的地方？
So is that like Gretzky, the hockey great, saying like, don't go to where the puck is, go to where the puck is going to be?
没错。
Exactly.
我们需要瞄准冰球即将到达的位置。
We need to aim ahead of where the puck is going to be.
嗯。
Mhmm.
因此，蜻蜓会不断根据猎物方向或速度的变化，来计算需要瞄准猎物前方多远的位置。
And so the dragonfly is constantly reacting to changes of the prey's direction or the prey's speed to calculate how far ahead of the prey they need to aim.
通过理解蜻蜓大脑中这些几乎瞬间完成的计算过程，弗朗西斯希望打造出能够模仿这一机制且同样高效的AI。
By understanding how these nearly instantaneous calculations happen in the dragonfly's brain, Francis hopes to build AI that mimics it and is just as efficient.
这是她在TED舞台上的样子。
Here she is on the TED stage.
所以当蜻蜓捕猎时，它们所做的远不止直接飞向猎物。
So when dragonflies are hunting, they do more than just fly straight at the prey.
它们会以一种能够拦截猎物的方式飞行。
They fly in such a way that they will intercept it.
它们瞄准的是猎物未来所在的位置。
They aim for where the prey is going to be.
为了正确做到这一点，蜻蜓需要进行一种被称为坐标变换的过程，即将眼睛的参考系——也就是蜻蜓所看到的——转换为身体的参考系——即蜻蜓需要如何转动身体来实现拦截。
To do this correctly, dragonflies need to perform what is known as a coordinate transformation, going from the eye's frame of reference, or what the dragonfly sees, to the body's frame of reference, or how the dragonfly needs to turn its body to intercept.
蜻蜓的速度很快。
And dragonflies are fast.
这意味着它们的计算速度也非常快。
This means they calculate fast.
延迟时间，即蜻蜓看到猎物转向后作出反应所需的时间，约为五十毫秒。
The latency, or the time it takes for a dragonfly to respond once it sees the prey turn, is about fifty milliseconds.
在大脑中，一个计算步骤是指一个神经元或一组并行工作的神经元层。
So in the brain, a computational step is a single neuron or a layer of neurons working in parallel.
一个神经元大约需要十毫秒来整合所有输入并作出反应。
It takes a single neuron about ten milliseconds to add up all its inputs and respond.
五十毫秒的反应时间意味着，一旦蜻蜓看到猎物转向，它只有时间完成大约四个这样的计算步骤，即四层神经元依次顺序工作，来计算蜻蜓需要如何转向。
The fifty millisecond response time means that once the dragonfly sees its prey turn, there's only time for maybe four of these computational steps or four layers of neurons working in sequence one after the other to calculate how the dragonfly needs to turn.
换句话说，我需要理解的神经回路最多只能有四层神经元。
In other words, the neural circuit that I need to understand can have at most four layers of neurons.
这是一个很小的神经回路，小到我们今天可用的工具足以识别并研究它。
This is a small neural circuit, small enough that we can identify it and study it with the tools that are available today.
这正是我正在努力做的事情。
And this is what I'm trying to do.
我已经构建了一个模型，模拟我认为负责计算蜻蜓如何转向的神经回路。
I have built a model of what I believe is the neural circuit that calculates how the dragonfly should turn.
在计算机模拟中，我可以在蜻蜓捕猎时预测单个神经元的活动。
In a computer simulation, I can predict the activities of individual neurons while the dragonfly is hunting.
为了验证这个模型，我的合作者和我正在将这些预测的神经反应与活体蜻蜓大脑中记录的神经反应进行比较。
To test the model, my collaborators and I are now comparing these predicted neural responses with responses of neurons recorded in living dragonfly brains.
这些是正在进行的实验，我们把活体蜻蜓置于虚拟现实环境中。
These are ongoing experiments in which we put living dragonflies in virtual reality.
然而，给蜻蜓戴上VR眼镜是不现实的。
Now, it's not practical to put VR goggles on a dragonfly.
因此，我们改为向蜻蜓播放移动目标的视频，同时用电极记录其大脑中单个神经元的活动模式。
So instead, we show movies of moving targets to the dragonfly while an electrode records activity patterns of individual neurons in the brain.
如果我们记录到的大脑反应与模型预测的反应一致，我们就找到了负责坐标变换的神经元。
If the responses that we record in the brain match those predicted by the model, we will have identified which neurons are responsible for coordinate transformations.
下一步将是理解这些神经元如何协同工作以完成计算。
The next step will be to understand the specifics of how these neurons work together to do the calculation.
但这就是我们开始理解大脑如何进行基本或原始计算的方式。
But this is how we begin to understand how brains do basic or primitive calculations.
所以你正在基于蜻蜓的大脑构建计算机模型，能够在几步之内拦截目标。
So you are building computer models based on the dragonfly's brain that can intercept things in in just a few steps.
蜻蜓一定在快速地进行非常复杂的数学运算。
The dragonfly, it must be doing really complicated math really fast.
你正试图弄清楚这一点吗？
Is that what you are trying to figure out?
这些计算？
Those calculations?
是的。
Yeah.
所以我真正感兴趣的是神经元能够执行哪些基本运算？
So what I'm really interested in are what are the fundamental operations that neurons are capable of?
或者神经元执行哪些基本运算？
Or what are the fundamental operations that neurons do?
这就是我想引入计算机的东西。
And that's what I want to bring to a computer.
这可能是某种基本的三角函数，也可能是一种我们平时不常想到的数学类型。
It may be something like basic trigonometry or it may be something that's kind of a different type of math than we're used to thinking about.
但这就是我们试图理解的东西。
But that's what we're trying to understand.
因为如果我们能理解这些运算，就能开始理解大脑的算法或所谓的计算机程序。
Because if we can understand the operations, then we can begin to understand what the algorithms or, say, the computer programs of the brain are.
这些神经元的计算方式可能与当今任何计算机上的方式都不同。
The way that these neurons compute may be different from anything that exists on a computer today.
这项工作的目标不仅仅是编写代码来复制神经元的活动模式。
And the goal of this work is to do more than just write code that replicates the activity patterns of neurons.
我们的目标是构建一种计算机芯片，它不仅能够像生物大脑一样完成相同的事情，而且是以与生物大脑相同的方式完成的。
We aim to build a computer chip that not only does the same things as biological brains, but does them in the same way as biological brains.
这可能会导致出现由与蜻蜓大脑一样大小的计算机驱动的无人机，能够捕捉某些目标并避开其他目标。
This could lead to drones driven by computers the same size as a dragonfly's brain that capture some targets and avoid others.
我个人希望夏天能有一支这样的小型无人机部队，为我的后院驱赶蚊子。
Personally, I'm hoping for a small army of these to defend my backyard from mosquitoes in the summer.
你手机上的GPS可以被一种基于粪金龟或蚂蚁的新导航设备取代，它能引导你选择最直接或最轻松的回家路线。
The GPS on your phone could be replaced by a new navigation device based on dung beetles or ants that could guide you to the straight or the easy path home.
这些设备的功耗会是怎样的呢？
And what would the power requirements of these devices be like?
据估计，人脑的功耗相当于一个20瓦的灯泡。
The human brain is estimated to have the same power requirements as a 20 watt light bulb.
想象一下，如果所有受大脑启发的计算机都具有如此极低的功耗。
Imagine if all brain inspired computers had the same extremely low power requirements.
你的智能手机或智能手表可能每天都需要充电。
Your smartphone or your smartwatch probably needs charging every day.
而你新研发的受大脑启发的设备可能每几个月甚至每几年才需要充电一次。
Your new brain inspired device might only need charging every few months or maybe even every few years.
你知道，计算机以各种我们完全习以为常的方式影响着我们的生活。
You know, computers touch us in all sorts of ways that we totally take for granted.
但如今限制计算机能力的一个关键资源，就是为其供电的能力。
But one resource that limits what computers can do today is being able to power them.
是的。
Yeah.
你提到一个未来场景，也许我们不再需要每天给设备充电。
And you you mentioned a future scenario where maybe we wouldn't need to charge our devices every day.
也许我们可以几个月，甚至几年充一次电。
Maybe we could go months or even years.
我们能否大幅减少目前为运行全球庞大的服务器和数据中心所需的能源？
Could we potentially scale back big time from using all the energy we need right now to run massive servers and data centers all over the world?
是的。
Yeah.
我认为这可以通过降低人类对世界造成的碳能源足迹产生深远影响。
I think that it could have long reaching impacts by decreasing just human carbon energy footprint on the world.
当然。
Definitely.
目前，许多数据中心必须建在河流等自然资源附近，以便为谷歌搜索等算法提供足够的电力。
As it is, a lot of these data centers need to be next to some natural resource like a river to be able to generate enough power to use these algorithms like Google search.
所以我认为这里有很大的潜力，我们或许能够降低这一成本。
So I think that there's a lot of potential there that we may be able to bring that cost down.
那么让我们回到你在桑迪亚国家实验室的工作。
So bring this back to what you do at Sandia for us.
我的意思是，我知道你不能透露细节，但说到国家安全，我会想到以色列的铁穹系统。
I I mean, I know you can't get into the details, but when it comes to national defense, it makes me think of Israel's Iron Dome.
抛开政治因素不谈，目标是不是找到方法让这类导弹防御系统更加高效？
And leaving aside the politics, is the aim to find ways to make missile defense systems like those more efficient?
嗯，桑迪亚关注的是需要大量计算能力的国家安全任务。
Well, I you know, Sandia is interested in national security missions that requires a lot of computer power.
我不会具体谈论这些任务是什么。
I'm not necessarily gonna talk about what those are.
但如果你们做好了本职工作，你们可能根本看不到这些工作的实际影响。
But, you know, if we're doing our job, you won't necessarily see the impact of that.
因此，理解神经元如何以低功耗完成工作，意味着这些单个操作或人类与云端系统交互的每次成本都会下降。
So, being able to understand how neurons do what they do for low power means that the cost of each of these individual operations or the cost of each of these interactions of a human with, say, something in the cloud is gonna come down.
因此，我感兴趣的是蜻蜓的大脑如何以低功耗且极其迅速地完成这种计算。
And so what I'm interested in is how the dragonfly brains are able to do this calculation with low power and really remarkably fast.
关于人工智能是否真的能具备智能，目前存在争议。
There is a debate about whether artificial intelligence can actually be intelligent.
那蜻蜓呢？
What about the dragonfly?
你觉得它算聪明吗？
Do you think of it as intelligent?
是的，我认为关于智能的定义有很多不同的说法。
Yeah, so I think there are a lot of different definitions to what intelligence is.
当我想到人类的智能时，它指的是我们适应新情况、吸收新信息并据此改变行为的能力。
When I think about human intelligence, it's our ability to adapt or take in new information and behave differently based on new situations.
对于蜻蜓来说，它们是神经元以我认为甚至可能是最优化的方式解决任务的典范。
For dragonflies, they're examples of neurons solving a task in what I would say is maybe even an optimized way.
你知道，蜻蜓进化出了出色、迅速且高效地完成这一特定任务的能力。
You know, the dragonflies evolved to do this particular task very well, very fast, very efficiently.
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所以我称它们为聪明的解决方案，你知道的，聪明的解决方式。
So I call them clever, you know, clever solutions.
它们是智能可能产生的例子。
They're examples of what intelligence could produce.
这是计算神经科学家弗朗西斯·钱斯。
That was computational neuroscientist Frances Chance.
你可以在 ted.com 上观看她的完整演讲。
You can see her full talk at ted.com.
今天节目中，我们探讨的是自然智能的理念。
On the show today, ideas about natural intelligence.
到目前为止，我们听到了能计数的植物和能在毫秒内拦截猎物的蜻蜓。
So far, we've heard about plants that can count and dragonflies that intercept their prey in milliseconds.
但我们的自然智能呢？
But what about our own natural intelligence?
我们身体里的那种智能。
The one in our bodies.
你感觉怎么样？
How are you feeling?
我感觉不太好。
I'm feeling not so good.
这是我们资深制片人桑娜兹和她女儿米娜。
That's our senior producer, Sanaz, and her daughter, Mina.
我有点恶心，感觉胃里像有小石子或石头。
I feel a little nauseous, like there are pebbles or rocks in my stomach.
我的头偶尔会疼。
And my head just occasionally, it hurts.
尼娜感染了病毒，想家了，什么都不想做。
Nina is homesick with a virus, and she doesn't wanna do much of anything.
现在我正坐在沙发上。
Right now, I'm sitting on the couch.
我只想看部电影，或者在iPad上看看什么节目。
I just wanna watch a movie and, like, watch something on my iPad.
正如我们所知，这些症状源于米娜的免疫系统正在努力对抗病毒。
As we know, these symptoms are coming from Mina's immune system that is trying to fight off that virus.
率先行动的是被称为细胞因子的分子。
Leading the charge are molecules called cytokines.
它们基本上是免疫系统的化学信使。
They're basically like the the chemical messengers of the immune system.
基莉·穆斯卡特尔是北卡罗来纳大学教堂山分校的心理学和神经科学教授。
Keely Muscatl is a psychology and neuroscience professor at UNC Chapel Hill.
她在那里研究身体健康与心理健康之间的联系。
That's where she studies the links between our physical and mental health.
她说，这些细胞因子在我们的血液中游走，寻找任何可疑的迹象。
And she says these cytokines float around in our bloodstream looking for anything suspicious.
当它们发现异常时，就会发出警报。
And when they find something, they sound the alarm.
就像是：哦，这里出问题了。
It's like, oh, there's a problem here.
我们需要做点什么来尝试控制这种情况。
We need to do something to try to contain this.
它还在试图向其他免疫细胞发出信号，让它们来弄清楚情况。
And it's trying to signal to other immune cells to come and like try to figure that out.
这会导致炎症。
And that causes inflammation.
当我们感染了病毒或其他病原体时，通常会经历这种广泛的全身性炎症。
And that's what we tend to experience when we have, you know, been infected with a virus or some sort of other pathogen is that wide spread systemic inflammation.
在这个过程中，细胞因子会导致我们生病时常见的身体症状。
Now, in doing this, cytokines cause the physical symptoms we commonly have when we're sick.
基莉·穆斯卡特尔继续在TED舞台上讲解。
Keeley Musketele continues from the TED stage.
比如发烧、身体酸痛和疲劳。
Things like fever and achiness and fatigue.
尽管我们通常认为这些症状是由病毒或细菌本身引起的，但实际上它们是由我们的免疫系统激活以清除病原体所导致的。
So even though we usually think of those symptoms as being caused by a virus or a bacteria itself, they're actually caused by our own immune systems activating to try to eliminate the pathogen.
但除了这些身体症状外，几十年来对动物和人类的研究都清楚地表明，细胞因子还会改变我们的情绪和社会行为。
But in addition to those physical symptoms, decades of research in both animals and humans clearly shows that cytokines also cause changes to our mood and to our social behavior.
因此，身体的炎症可以向大脑发出信号，让我们感到沮丧、抑郁甚至绝望。
So inflammation in the body can signal to the brain to cause us to feel down, depressed and even hopeless.
炎症还会让我们想要从社会中退缩，避免与社交网络中的人互动。
Inflammation can also make us want to socially withdraw from other people to avoid interacting with individuals in our social networks.
因此，这项研究揭示了免疫系统对我们情绪和社会行为的强大影响。
So this research shows the powerful influence that the immune system can have on our mood and on our social behavior.
身体炎症的变化可以向大脑发出信号，让我们
Changes in inflammation in the body can signal to the brain to cause us
感到
to
抑郁甚至孤独。
feel depressed and even lonely.
你知道，之前我们听到了我们同事的女儿想家的故事。
You know, earlier, we heard from our colleague's daughter who was homesick.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她喜欢上学。
And she loves school.
她喜欢运动，但那天她什么都不想做。
She loves sports, but she did not feel like doing anything that day.
这正是你在描述的情况。
And that's exactly what you're describing.
当我们生病时，这实际上是我们的免疫系统在说：待在家里。
That when we are sick, it is actually our immune system saying, Stay home.
是的，你有点沮丧也没关系。
Yeah, it's okay that you're a little depressed.
躺下休息吧。
Just lie down.
没错，没错。
Exactly, exactly.
所以你的身体会向大脑发送信号，导致你对通常能带来巨大快乐的事情——比如上学，或者任何让你真正开心的事——失去兴趣或愉悦感。
So your body is going to send signals to your brain that cause kind of a loss of joy or a loss of interest or pleasure in things that normally would bring you tons of joy, going to school or, you know, whatever it is that makes you really happy.
而这种现象其实是非常好的，对吧？
And the idea is that that's a really good thing, right?
因为如果你生病了，你确实应该待在家里，让身体休养和恢复，让免疫系统正常工作，同时也避免将你所患的疾病传播给他人。
Because if you're sick, then you really should be staying home and letting your body recuperate and recover, letting your immune system do its job, and also kind of containing the possibility of spreading whatever you have to other people.
虽然我们无法确切知道为什么会这样，但进化理论提供了一些值得思考的见解。
While we can't know for sure why this happens, evolutionary theory provides some good food for thought.
事实上，激活和运行免疫系统需要消耗大量能量。
The fact is revving up and running the immune system takes a lot of energy.
让细胞因子在血液中流动并向免疫细胞发送信号，需要消耗热量。
Getting cytokines to swim through the bloodstream and send signals to immune cells takes calories.
那么，还有什么会消耗热量呢？
And what else takes calories?
几乎所有事情都会，尤其是外出寻找愉快的体验、与陌生人互动，以及一般性地在世界上活动。
Pretty much everything, especially things like going out and seeking pleasurable experiences, interacting with strangers, and just generally moving about the world.
因此，这一理论认为，免疫系统正在向大脑发出信号，让人感到抑郁并远离社交，目的是让你待在家里休息。
So the theory is that the immune system is telling the brain to feel depressed and to withdraw from socializing because it wants you to stay at home and rest.
如果那些 normally 令人愉快的事情现在不再觉得有趣，与他人互动让人感到疲惫甚至有些威胁，我们就更可能避免这些行为，而更倾向于待在家里，让免疫系统消耗我们的能量。
And if things that would normally sound fun just don't seem all that fun, and if interacting with other people seems exhausting and maybe even a little threatening, then we'll be less likely to do those things and more likely to stay at home and let our immune systems use our calories.
但事实证明，炎症对我们社交生活的影响并没有那么简单，并非总是让我们感到更孤立和退缩。
But it turns out the influence of inflammation on our social lives isn't as simple as always making us feel more disconnected and socially withdrawn.
我们最近在这一研究领域最重要的发现之一是，炎症实际上可能增强我们与最亲近的人进行社交互动的动机。
One of the most important discoveries that we've made in this area of research recently is that inflammation might actually make us more motivated to seek some social interactions, specifically those with the people who we're closest to.
所以，炎症并不会普遍让我们变得不社交。
So it's not that inflammation makes us less social across the board.
它可能只是让我们更有动力去寻求那些能给予我们安慰或照顾的人的互动，这些人就像是‘鸡汤速成通道’。
It may just make us more motivated to seek interactions with people who could provide us with comfort or care, those who could be a shortcut to chicken soup.
这一切感觉非常直观，但令人着迷的是，我的身体在我不舒服时让我产生这种感受，背后竟然有进化上的原因。
This all feels incredibly intuitive, but it's also fascinating that there are evolutionary reasons why my body is making me feel this way when I don't feel well.
完全正确。
Totally.
不过，我们可以说我们的免疫系统很聪明吗？
Would it be fair to say, though, that our immune system is smart?
是的。
Yes.
我觉得是的。
Think it is.
我认为它很聪明。
I think it is smart.
我认为它进化得能够很好地完成自己的任务。
I think it evolves to do its job and do its job very well.
我认为对人类来说特别有趣的是，它也在拥有一个能够忽视它的大脑的背景下进化了。
And what I think is really interesting for humans is that it's also evolved in the context of having this brain that is able to ignore it.
这里有一种拉锯：我认为免疫系统会向大脑发送适当的信号，但我们拥有一个美妙的前额叶皮层，可以对它说：我听到了，免疫系统，但不，我不会采取这些步骤来帮助自己康复。
And there's kind of that push and pull there where I think the immune system sends those appropriate signals to the brain, but we have this beautiful prefrontal cortex that can say, I hear you, immune system, but no, I'm not going to take these steps to, help myself recover.
这正是作为人类、拥有这样的大脑所处的前沿状态。
And that's the cutting edge of of being a human and and having the brains that
我们会的。
we do.
无论免疫系统多么聪明，大脑都可能是那个傻瓜。
The brain could be the idiot no matter how smart the immune system is being.
是的。
Yeah.
有点吧。
Kind of.
我确实觉得这是对的。
I I I kind of think that's true.
接下来，基莉·穆斯卡特将解释当炎症持续不退并转为慢性时会发生什么。
In a minute, Keely Muscatl explains what can happen when inflammation doesn't go away and becomes chronic.
今天节目中，我们探讨自然智能。
On the show today, natural intelligence.
我是马诺伊·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听来自NPR的TED电台节目。
I'm Manoj Zamorodi, and you're listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
请继续关注。
Stay with us.
这里是来自NPR的TED播客。
It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
我是马努什·扎莫罗迪。
I'm Manoush Zamorodi.
今天节目中，我们将探讨关于自然智能的观念。
On the show today, ideas about natural intelligence.
我们刚刚与基莉·穆斯卡特尔交谈过。
We were just talking to Keely Muscatl.
她是一位社会心理神经免疫学家，这意味着
She's a social psychoneuroimmunologist, which means
我研究免疫系统与社会行为之间的关系。
I study the relationship between the immune system and social behavior.
基莉表示，多年来研究显示，我们体内的炎症会影响情绪和行为。
Keeley says that over the years, research has shown that inflammation in our body affects our mood and our behavior.
所以我们现在经常听到关于炎症的说法。
So we hear about inflammation, I feel like, all the time right now.
比如，现在流行的是吃抗炎饮食，多吃蓝莓和杏仁，而不是加工食品。
Like, you do you know, the hot thing is to be on an anti inflammatory diet and to eat blueberries and almonds rather than processed foods.
但我们说的是不同类型的炎症吗？
But are are we talking about a different kind of inflammation?
如果你吃得不健康，我们通常认为你没有摄入正确的能量来源，可能会感到抑郁。
And if you don't eat healthy, we think of that, you know, you're not consuming the right fuel to give you energy, and maybe you do feel depressed.
但这两者是不同的吗？
But are those different?
不，是完全相同的过程，你对急性感染产生的炎症，也是导致慢性疾病的部分原因。
No, exact same process, same inflammation that you have in response to like an acute infection is part of what's contributing to chronic disease.
而这种炎症会受到你摄入的食物、身体活动量以及睡眠质量的影响。
And that is responsive to the types of things you put in your body, the amount of physical activity that you engage in, the amount of sleep you get.
我是个新手妈妈。
I'm a new mom.
过去十一个月里，我一直长期睡眠不足。
I've been chronically sleep deprived for the last eleven months.
但我也经常在想，这种睡眠不足对我的体内炎症水平有多大影响，它又是如何影响我的情绪、清晰思考的能力以及与他人互动的。
But And it's been also, often wonder, you know, how much of an impact is this sleep deprivation having on the levels of inflammation in my body and how is that influencing, you know, my mood and my ability to think clearly and engage with others.
所以，是的，我并不认为身体对急性疾病、感染甚至压力所做出的这些反应是不良的。
So yeah, it's not to say that these responses that the body has to the acute instances of sickness or infection or even stress are, I think, adaptive.
但如果这些反应持续很长时间，对人来说可能会非常艰难。
But if they play out over a long time course, that could be really tough for people.
我认为，尤其是在面对慢性压力时，这会形成一种恶性循环：压力会导致炎症，而炎症又会向大脑发出信号，让人可能选择疏离或退缩，而这又会带来更多的压力。
And I think especially in the face of chronic stress, it's sort of this spiral, right, where stress can cause inflammation and inflammation can signal the brain for people to maybe disconnect or withdraw, which can lead to more stress.
你可能没有了以往或你需要的那种支持网络。
You don't have the same support network that you had or that you need.
这确实是一个很难打破的循环。
And that can be a really tough cycle to break.
所以，这不仅仅是简单地叫人‘振作起来，走出去’这么回事。
So it's not just a matter of, come on, go and get yourself out there.
幕后发生的事情要多得多。
There's a lot more going on behind the scenes.
完全正确。
A 100%.
好的。
Alright.
所以你家这个宝宝，等他们长大后，如果跟你说：‘妈妈，我不舒服。’
So this baby that you've got, when they grow up and they're like, mom, I don't feel well.
我想待在家里。
I wanna stay home.
你会怎么说？
What will you say?
天哪。
My god.
这
That's
真是个好问题。
such a good question.
我对此想过很多。
I've thought about this a lot.
我的意思是，这正是人类大脑的另一个特点，对吧？它们也可能具有欺骗性。
I mean, because this is the other thing about human brains, right, is they can also be deceitful.
我想，我希望小宝宝阿彻不会只想待在家里陪我，看卡通片之类的。
And I guess I hope that little baby Archer doesn't want to just stay home to hang out with me and watch cartoons or whatever.
但我希望我们能教他，身体发出的信号很重要，要认真倾听。
But what I hope is that we can teach him that signals from our bodies are important listen to.
这还让我想到另一件事，我很幸运，有一份工作，让我能待在家里陪他。
And the other thing this makes me think of is that I'm so fortunate to have a job in a position where I could stay home with him.
我可以适应这些身体信号。
I would be able to accommodate those signals.
我真的同情那些没有这种保障的人，他们可能不得不强迫孩子即使身体不适也要去上学。
And I really feel for people who don't have that safety net and who might have to push their kids to go out and go to school even when they're not feeling well.
所以也许阿彻也能推动社会层面的变革，让人们获得所需的病假。
So maybe Archer can also push for some broad scale society change in terms of giving people the sick time they need.
别给阿彻压力。
No pressure, Archer.
是的，正是如此。
Yeah, exactly.
这是基莉·马斯卡特。
That's Keely Muscatl.
她是北卡罗来纳大学教堂山分校的心理学和神经科学教授。
She's a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
你可以在 ted.com 上观看她的完整演讲。
You can see her full talk at ted.com.
也要非常感谢米娜·梅什卡姆普尔·阿赫达姆。
And many thanks to Mina Meshkampur Akhdam too.
你想让妈妈抱抱你吗？
Do you want hugs from mommy?
嗯嗯。
Uh-huh.
还有亲亲。
And kisses.
为了结束我们关于自然智能的节目，我们想谈谈动物之间如何交流以及它们在说什么。
To close our show on natural intelligence, we wanna talk about how animals communicate to each other and what they're saying.
科学家们正在使用新技术尝试翻译不同物种的对话，特别是利用人工智能来解读它们的声音。
Scientists are using new technologies to try and translate different species conversations, specifically using artificial intelligence to interpret their sounds.
环境研究员凯伦·巴彻解释了这些技术的工作原理以及它们在2023年的一场演讲中揭示的发现。
Environmental researcher Karen Bacher explained how these technologies work and what they're revealing in a talk she gave in 2023.
令人悲痛的是，凯伦在发表演讲几个月后就去世了，因此我们现在想与大家分享她的完整演讲。
Tragically, Karen died just a few months after giving her talk, and so we want to share with you now the entirety of it.
以下是凯伦·巴克尔在TED舞台上的演讲。
Here's Karen Bakker on the TED stage.
目前，我们正处在一场关于人工智能将如何改变人类社会的激烈辩论之中。
So we're in the middle of a fierce debate about how artificial intelligence will change human society.
但你有没有想过，人工智能会如何改变你与非人类世界的关系？
But have you thought about how AI will transform your relationship to the nonhuman world?
这些是生物声学记录仪，我多年来一直研究科学家如何使用这类设备结合人工智能，来聆听自然中隐藏的声音并解码非人类的交流。
So these are bioacoustic recorders, and I've spent years studying how scientists use devices like this combined with AI to listen to the hidden sounds of nature and decode nonhuman communication.
这些是隐藏的声音，因为自然界中的许多声学交流发生在超声波范围内，高于你的听觉范围，或在次声波范围内，低于你的听觉范围。
Hidden sounds because much acoustic communication in nature occurs in the high ultrasound, above your hearing range, or in the deep infrasound, below your hearing range.
所以我要播放一段声音。
So I'm going to play a sound.
请仔细听，试着猜猜这是什么生物或物体发出的声音。
I want you to listen and try to guess who or what this is.
刚才那是蝙蝠的声音。
So that was a bat.
那是蝙蝠的超声波，录制时高于你的听觉范围，但被放慢了速度，让你能听到。
That was bat ultrasound recorded above your hearing range, but slowed down so you could hear.
那是蝙蝠在交配季节高峰期发出的求偶叫声。
So that was an advertisement call from the peak of the mating season.
科学家可以解码这些叫声，因此一只蝙蝠的英文翻译示例是：请注意。
Scientists can decode these calls, so a sample bat to English translation would be, and I quote, pay attention.
我是一只 Pipistrella metusi 蝙蝠，而且是雄性。
I'm a Pipistrella metusi bat, specifically male.
我的名字是 X。
My name is X.
我正在这里降落，我们拥有共同的社会身份和共同的交流体系。
I am landing here, and we share a common social identity and common communication pool.
对于一只蝙蝠来说，这搭讪语还不错。
For a pickup line by a bat, not bad.
因此，科学家们已经记录了数百万次类似的蝙蝠叫声，并利用人工智能解码了其中许多。
So scientists have recorded millions of bat vocalizations like this, and they've decoded many of them using AI.
他们发现蝙蝠拥有方言，这些方言会代代相传，幼年蝙蝠就像你们一样，通过聆听周围成年蝙蝠的叫声并模仿发声，直到能说出成年蝙蝠的语言。
And they've revealed that bats have dialects that they pass down from one generation to the next, and that baby bats learn to speak just like you did by listening to the adults around them and babbling back until they speak adult bat.
因此，蝙蝠的交流远比我们之前所知的复杂，而它们只是众多例子中的一个。
So bats have far more complex communication than we knew, and they're only one of many examples.
听这个。
Listen to this.
这些是虎鲸。
So those are orcas.
科学家们能够利用人工智能解码单个虎鲸的叫声，并发现虎鲸也会将它们的方言代代相传。
Scientists can decode individual orca calls using AI, and they've revealed that orcas also pass down their dialects from one generation to the next.
因此，当我们第一次了解到这些世界的隐秘声音时，往往会感到惊讶，因为人类常常认为，我们无法感知的东西就不存在，因而错过了很多。
So when we first learn about these secret sounds of the world, we're often surprised because humans tend to believe that what we cannot perceive does not exist, and so we miss a lot.
我最喜欢的一个例子是孔雀。
One of my favorite examples is this peacock.
对你来说，这看起来像是一个视觉求偶展示，确实如此。
So to you, this looks like a visual mating display, and it is.
但这只孔雀还用尾巴发出非常低沉的次声波，你听不到，但雌性孔雀可以听到，这对它们的择偶决策至关重要。
But this peacock is also making very loud infrasound with its tail, which you cannot hear, but female peahens can, and it is an important factor in their mating decisions.
所以这只孔雀正在举办一场摇滚音乐会。
So this peacock is giving a rock concert.
我们与孔雀共存了数千年，但直到最近才发现了这一点。
Now, we have lived with peacocks for millennia, but we only just figured this out.
即使是没有耳朵的生物，对声音也极其敏感。
Even creatures without ears are exquisitely sensitive to sound.
这是一颗珊瑚幼虫。
So this is a coral larva.
当珊瑚幼虫出生时，通常是在满月后几天的集体产卵事件中，它们会被冲入大海。
When coral larvae are born, usually at a mass spawning event a few days after the full moon, they wash out to sea.
因此，科学家们曾经认为这些小小的幼虫——你们在这里看到的这些微小斑点——是无助的，只能被风、浪和洋流随机推动。
So scientists used to think that these little larvae, these tiny dots that you see here, were helpless, randomly pushed around by wind and waves and currents.
但事实证明，珊瑚幼虫对声音非常敏感。
But it turns out that coral larvae are acoustically attuned.
它们能听到健康珊瑚礁的声音。
They can hear the sounds of healthy reefs.
它们能听到自己家园礁石、母礁的声音，并能穿越数英里的开阔海洋游回家园。
They can hear the sound of their home reef, their mother reef, and they swim back home across miles of open ocean.
这些是没有任何中枢神经系统的微小生物。
So these are tiny creatures with no central nervous system.
但我们认为，它们是通过身体外侧这些毛发来实现这一点的。
But we think they do that with these hairs that you see on the outside of their bodies.
这些毛发和你耳朵里的毛发非常相似，正是它们让你现在能听到我说话。
They're a lot like the hairs inside your ears that are enabling you to listen to me right now.
你可以把珊瑚幼虫想象成一个倒置的耳朵，只不过它的听觉灵敏度远超人类，因为它们是用整个身体在听。
So you can think of a coral larva a little bit like an inside out ear, except that its sense of hearing is profoundly more sensitive than your own because they hear with their entire bodies.
甚至我们的地球也会发出声音。
Even our planet makes sound.
火山和地震发出的声音低沉、强劲而有力，能够传播很远，穿透土壤、岩石甚至坚固的墙壁。
Volcanoes, earthquakes sound so low and strong and powerful they travel very far, passing through soil and stone and even solid walls.
在自然界中，声音无处不在，而寂静只是一种错觉。
So in nature, sound is everywhere, and silence is an illusion.
因此，科学家们也在倾听物种间广泛存在的交流声音。
So scientists are also listening to the vast extent of interspecies communication.
这只蝙蝠正在使用超声波捕猎这只飞蛾。
So this bat is using ultrasound to hunt this moth.
它的回声定位波束已锁定猎物。
Its echolocation beam is locked onto its prey.
但飞蛾也在发出超声波。
But the moth is also emitting ultrasound.
它正在干扰蝙蝠的声呐，以试图逃脱。
It's jamming the bat's sonar in an attempt to escape.
这种植物也在发出超声波，其声音会根据其状态而变化。
This plant is also emitting ultrasound, which varies depending on its condition.
科学家们训练了一个算法，仅通过聆听来监测这种植物。
Scientists have trained an algorithm to listen to this plant simply by listening.
它能以约70%的准确率判断植物是健康、缺水还是受伤。
It can detect with about 70% accuracy whether the plant is healthy, dehydrated or injured.
顺便说一下，这是经过同行评审的研究。
So this is peer reviewed research, by the way.
所以我们听不到这些声音，但我们认为许多昆虫可以听到。
So we cannot hear these sounds, but we think many insects can.
这是否意味着人类有朝一日可以通过数字技术与其他物种交流？
Does this mean that humans could use digital tech to one day communicate with other species?
一些科学家认为可以，他们正在使用机器学习来尝试破译其他物种的声学信号。
Well, some scientists think so, and they're using machine learning to try to decode the acoustics of other species.
目前有多个由计算机科学家、语言学家和生物学家组成的团队正在研究破译抹香鲸的生物声学。
So there are teams of computer scientists and linguists and biologists working on decoding sperm whale bioacoustics.
他们还在构建完整的声学词典。
They're also building entire dictionaries.
比如，有一个包含数千种声音的大象声学词典。
So there's an elephant dictionary with thousands of sounds.
例如，大象对蜜蜂有特定的信号。
Elephants, for example, have a specific signal for honeybee.
所以我想和你们分享其中一个声音。
So I'd love to share just one of these sounds with you.
这段声音录制于一个充满喜悦与庆祝的时刻——新生命的诞生。
It was recorded at a moment of great joy and celebration, the birth of a new baby.
因此，我们对生命之树的倾听越深入，跨物种的交流就越复杂。
So the further we listen across the tree of life, the more complex interspecies communication would be.
听听这只蜜蜂的声音。
Listen to this honeybee.
现在听听这只蜂后的声音。
Now listen to this honeybee queen.
所以你以为你了解蜜蜂的声音了。
So you thought you knew what honeybees sounded like.
好吧。
Okay.
蜜蜂的交流极其复杂。
Honeybee communication is incredibly complex.
它涉及声音、位置、空间和振动。
It's acoustic, positional, spatial, vibrational.
蜂后有自己的信号。
The queen has her own signals.
因此，科学家们正在将这些信号编码到机器人中。
So scientists are encoding these signals into robots.
这个机器人试图与蜂群沟通，但未能成功。
This robot is attempting but not succeeding to communicate with the hive.
蜜蜂大多无视或攻击它，但有一天，我们希望，发明者希望，这个机器人能够足够好地沟通，使科学家能够监测蜂群的健康状况。
The bees mostly ignore or attack it, but one day, we hope, the inventors hope, that this robot will communicate well enough to allow scientists to monitor the health of the hive.
这会是一件好事吗？
Now would that be a good thing?
有些人认为，跨物种沟通有助于培养对自然的尊重和同理心。
Some believe that interspecies communication would help foster respect and empathy for nature.
另一些人则认为，如此窃听和介入是极其不尊重且不道德的。
Others believe that it is profoundly disrespectful and unethical to eavesdrop and engage in this way.
跨物种沟通需要强大的伦理保障。
Interspecies communication needs strong ethical guardrails.
而且，也许我们自以为是地认为其他物种会想要和我们交流，这有点自我中心了。
And anyway, maybe it's a bit self centered to think other species would even want to communicate with us.
那么，如果我们把生物声学用于一些切实可行的用途，比如应对我们严峻的生物多样性危机，会怎么样呢？
So what if we were to use bioacoustics for something of immediate practical value, like doing something about our massive biodiversity crisis?
让我们回到珊瑚礁。
Let's go back to the coral reefs.
听听这片健康珊瑚礁的声音。
Listen to this healthy reef sound.
相当活跃吧。
Pretty lively.
对吧？
Right?
但珊瑚礁正在消失。
But coral reefs are disappearing.
如果你现在去大多数珊瑚礁，听到的会是这样的声音。
If you were to go to most coral reefs today, you'd hear something like this.
这就像一片海洋中的鬼城。
It's like a ghost town of the sea.
当我们失去物种时，我们也失去了声音。
When we lose species, we lose voices.
当我们失去地貌时，我们也失去了声景。
When we lose landscapes, we also lose soundscapes.
还有一线希望。
There is a ray of hope.
你刚才听到的健康珊瑚礁的声音可以用来恢复珊瑚礁。
The healthy reef stones that you just heard can be used to regenerate coral reefs.
科学家们正在这样做。
Scientists are doing this.
这就像为大自然进行音乐疗法。
It's a bit like music therapy for nature.
所以这并不能解决珊瑚礁面临的全部问题，尤其是气候变化。
So this is not going to solve all the problems coral reefs face, notably climate change.
但如果我们能应对这种严重危害并杀死海洋生物的噪音污染大流行，就可以利用生物声学来恢复部分生物多样性。
But if we can address the massive epidemic of noise pollution that is harming and killing marine creatures, we could use bioacoustics to restore some biodiversity.
生物声学还可以帮助保护迁徙中的动物。
Bioacoustics could also help protect animals on the move.
这只小鲸鱼就是被船只撞死的。
So this this baby whale was killed by a ship.
不幸的是，这是北大西洋右鲸最常见的死亡原因之一，而它们是全球最濒危的物种之一。
Tragically, this is a common cause of death of North Atlantic right whales, one of the most endangered species in the world.
为了解决这个问题，科学家们现在在北美东海岸启动了一项新的生物声学项目，通过三角定位鲸鱼的位置，并实时将信息传达给船长。
So to address this, scientists are now launching a new bioacoustics program off the East Coast Of North America to triangulate the locations of whales and convey the information to ship's captains in real time.
船只随后必须减速、停下或绕行。
The ships then have to slow down, stop, move out of the way.
自该计划实施以来，这一区域再也没有发生过右鲸被船只撞死的事件。
Not a single right whale has died of a ship strike in this zone since this program was launched.
这可能是拯救这一物种的关键措施。
This So this may be the thing that saves this species.
所以好好想想。
So think about it.
几十年前，我们曾用鱼叉猎杀这些鲸鱼，几乎将它们推向灭绝。
A few decades ago, we were harpooning these whales nearly to extinction.
如今，我们发明了一项技术，让不到400头鲸鱼仅凭歌声，就能引导数以万计的船只在拥有数千万人口的水域中航行。
Today, we've invented a technology that allows a community of less than 400 whales simply by singing to guide the movements of tens of thousands of ships in a watershed that's home to tens of millions of people.
总有一天，这些鲸鱼航道可能会遍布全球海洋。
One day, these whalelanes may be everywhere in the oceans.
对于生活在萨利什海的虎鲸来说，这来得正是时候，因为它们只剩下几十头了。
For the orcas who live here in the Salish Sea, this would be just in time because there are only a few dozen left.
最后一点思考。
A final thought.
大约四百年前，望远镜的发明者们仰望星空，却不知道他们的发明会让人类回溯到宇宙的起源。
About four hundred years ago, the inventors of the telescope were gazing up at the stars, not knowing their invention would allow humanity to look back in time to the origins of the universe.
光学技术让人类在太阳系乃至整个宇宙中重新定位了自己的位置。
Optics decenters humanity within the solar system, within the cosmos.
生物声学使人类在生命之树中不再居于中心。
Bioacoustics decenters humanity within the tree of life.
我们的共同点比我们想象的要多。
Our commonality is greater than we knew.
如今，我们正利用生物声学来保护物种并破译它们的交流方式，但我相信，未来我们将结合生物声学与机器智能，探索生物智能的前沿。
Now today, we're using bioacoustics to protect species and decode their communication, but tomorrow, I believe we'll be using bioacoustics combined with machine intelligence to explore the frontiers of biological intelligence.
许多生物智能与我们截然不同，但它们同样值得探索。
Many biological intelligences are very different than our own, but they're no less worthy of exploration.
也许在某个推测性的未来，站在舞台上的将不再是人类，而是生物声学让一头虎鲸来发表一场TED演讲。
And maybe one day in a speculative future, instead of a human here on stage, maybe bioacoustics would enable an orca to give a TED talk.
为什么不呢？
Why not?
分享虎鲸躲避船只、地震勘探和人类猎手的故事，分享它们拼命寻找最后一批鲑鱼的故事，分享它们在这颗美丽的星球上、在我们这个人类创造力失控、环境危机空前的时代努力生存的故事。
Sharing orca stories about dodging ships and seismic blasts and human hunters, stories about desperately seeking the last remaining salmon, stories about trying to survive on this beautiful planet in this crazy moment in our era of untethered human creativity and unprecedented environmental emergency.
这些才是真正值得传播的理念。
Now those would be ideas worth spreading.
那是凯伦·巴克尔。
That was Karen Bakker.
她的最新著作是《盖亚之网》：数字环保如何应对气候变化、恢复生物多样性、培养同理心并再生地球。
Her latest book is Gaia's Web, how digital environmentalism can combat climate change, restore biodiversity, cultivate empathy, and regenerate the earth.
我们想将本期关于自然智能的节目献给她。
And we wanna dedicate this entire episode on natural intelligence to her.
非常感谢您的收听。
Thank you so much for listening.
本期节目由詹姆斯·德拉·胡西、哈沙·纳哈达、凯蒂·蒙塔利翁、马修·克鲁蒂尔和菲奥娜·吉隆制作。
This episode was produced by James Della Hussi, Harsha Nahada, Katie Montalione, Matthew Cloutier, and Fiona Giron.
由桑亚·梅什坎普尔和我共同剪辑。
It was edited by Sanaz Meshkampur and me.
我们在NPR的制作团队还包括蕾切尔·福尔克纳·怀特，艾琳·诺古奇是我们的执行制片人。
Our production staff at NPR also includes Rachel Faulkner White, Irene Noguchi is our executive producer.
我们的音频工程师是罗伯特·罗德里格兹和吉莉·穆恩。
Our audio engineers were Robert Rodriguez and Gilly Moon.
我们的主题音乐由拉姆汀·阿拉布利创作。
Our theme music was written by Ramtine Arablui.
我们在TED的合作伙伴包括克里斯·安德森、米歇尔·昆特、亚历杭德拉·萨拉扎尔和达尼埃拉·巴洛雷佐。
Our partners at TED are Chris Anderson, Michelle Quint, Alejandra Salazar, and Daniela Balorezzo.
我是马努切·扎莫罗迪，您正在收听来自NPR的TED电台节目。
I'm Manouche Zamorodi, and you've been listening to the TED Radio Hour from NPR.
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