你会如何设计你梦想中的城市？| 詹姆斯·罗哈斯

你正在收听TED Talks Daily，我们每天为你带来新想法，激发你的好奇心。

You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day.

我是主持人，Elise Hu。

I'm your host, Elise Hu.

从城市到城市，我们设计了社区参与地方规划的流程。

City to city, we have designed processes for community input on local planning.

其理念当然是，人们应该对塑造自己的社区有发言权，无论是住房、商业、交通还是公园。

The idea being that, of course, people should have a say in shaping their neighborhoods, whether it's housing, businesses, transit, or parks.

这是一个清晰、善意的民主理念。

This is a clear, well meaning democratic idea.

可惜在实践中并非如此简单。

If only it were that easy in practice.

如果你参加过关于社区新开发的社区会议，你大概知道那种感觉：看不懂的地图、令人困惑的调查、少数人大声说话而其他人保持沉默。

If you have ever sat through a community meeting about a new development in your neighborhood, you probably know the feeling, the unreadable maps, the confusing surveys, the handful of loud voices while everyone else stays quiet.

James Rojas，一位毕生从事城市规划工作的专家，认为整个流程有些问题。

James Rojas, who has spent his entire career as an urban planner, thinks the whole process is kind of broken.

社区会议既受制于主持的规划师，也受制于参加的公众。

And community meetings are directed both by the planner that has to facilitate them and the public who has to attend them.

要么就是空荡荡的会议室，没人关心这个问题；要么就是战场，少数几个意见非常强烈的人主导了对话，其他人则保持沉默。

It's either an empty room where nobody cares about the issue or it's a combat zone where a few groups of people with very strong opinions will dominate the conversation and everybody else stays silent.

所以詹姆斯尝试了不同的方法。

So James tried something different.

如果我们像小时候玩耍那样来规划城市会怎么样？

What if we planned cities the way we played as kids?

在他的演讲中，他分享了一种他称之为“摆一摆”的方法，在这种方法中，人们不是说话，而是动手玩。

In his talk, he shares a method he calls place it, where instead of talking, people play.

他递给他们成千上万的回收物品，比如瓶盖、冰棍棒和卷发筒，让他们搭建自己理想中的城市。

He hands them thousands of recycled objects like bottle caps, popsicle sticks, and hair rollers and asks them to build things like their ideal city.

他发现了一些奇妙的事情发生了。

He has found that something remarkable happens.

不管谁坐在桌前，人们往往会搭建出完全相同的东西。

No matter who's at the table, people tend to build the very same things.

这些年来，我见证过几百个这样的活动，不管参与者是谁，大家想要的都是同一种城市。

And from the hundreds of origins I've witnessed over the years, no matter who they are, people want the same kind of city.

他们想要一个能与自然和他人建立联系的城市。

They want a city of relationships with nature and other people.

詹姆斯认为，玩耍不只是小孩子的专利。

James makes the case that play isn't just for kids.

它可能是我们建设城市和社区最强大的工具之一，让这些地方真正有家的感觉。

It might be one of the most powerful tools we have for building cities and communities that actually feel like home.

演讲结束后，请继续收听我们的“策展人角落”环节，TED策展人克洛伊·肖·布鲁克斯将深入探讨，当一群残障人士坐下来，用詹姆斯的瓶盖和发卷搭建模型时，他们最终如何彻底重塑了自己的城市。

And stick around after the talk for our Curator's Corner, where TED curator Chloe Shawshaw Brooks digs into what happened when a group of differently abled people sat down with James' bottle caps and hair rollers and ended up completely reshaping their own city.

这些内容将在短暂休息后马上呈现。

This is all coming up right after a short break.

在我们的时代，每周都有一场世界级的研讨会。

In our time is a world class seminar every week.

为什么杰里米是一只孤独的蜗牛？

Why was Jeremy a lonely snail?

三世纪时，约克的人在做什么？

What were lines doing in York in the third century?

我是米莎·格伦尼，每周我都会和专家嘉宾一起探讨塑造我们世界的各种思想。

I'm Misha Glenney, and every week, I'm joined by expert guests to explore the ideas that shape our world.

嗯，这确实是早期人们开始持续描绘牙齿的时期之一。

Well, it's one of the first times really that you consistently see someone painting teeth.

我知道这听起来有点疯狂。

I know that sounds bonkers.

如果我要定义数学，我会说它是研究结构的学科。

If I was gonna define mathematics, I would say it's the study of structure.

在我们的时代，你可以在任何播客平台收听，或者在YouTube上观看。

In our time, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

茶还是咖啡？

Tea or coffee?

我喜欢来杯茶。

Love a cup of tea.

现在是我们今天的TED演讲。

Now our TED Talk of the day.

今天我们要学习如何打造你理想中的城市来玩。

Today, we're going to learn about how to build your idol city to play.

我小时候想要一个玩具屋，但那时候男孩不玩娃娃。

I wanted a dollhouse growing up, but in those days, boys didn't play with dolls.

而且我父母也买不起积木给我。

And my parents couldn't afford to buy me building blocks.

所以我开始收集小冰棍棒，我奶奶给了我一个鞋盒，我就搭起了我的第一座小房子。

So I started collecting small polycaptop popsicle sticks, and my grandmother gave me a shoebox, and they built my first mini house.

我对此非常着迷，于是继续搭建街道、社区，最后甚至建起了城市。

I was so motivated by it that I kept on building streets, neighborhoods, and eventually cities.

这让我走上了城市规划的职业道路。

So that led me to career in the city planning.

但多年来，作为城市规划师，我意识到我们对自己的工作过于认真了。

But over the years, as a city planner, I realized that we take our work way too seriously.

我们把城市当作一个截止日期，当作一个衡量标准，当作数据，或者一个需要用一场华丽演示来解决的问题。

We use the city as a deadline, as a measurement, as data, or a problem to be solved by a really fancy presentation.

我们用人们听不懂的词汇、看不懂的地图、让人困惑的数字，以及人们根本不会填的问卷。

We use words people don't understand, maps people can't read, you know, numbers that confuse people and surveys that people don't fill out.

社区会议既由负责主持的规划师主导，也由必须参加的规划师主导。

And community meetings are directed both by the planner that has to facilitate them and the planner who has to attend them.

要么是空荡荡的房间里没人关心这个问题，要么是像战场一样，少数几个意见非常强烈的人主导了对话，而其他人都保持沉默。

It's either an empty room where nobody cares about the issue or at the combat zone, where a few groups of people with very strong opinions will dominate the conversation and everybody else stays silent.

但和大多数人一样，我讨厌公开演讲。

But like most people, hate public speaking.

而我自己，更擅长用双手来表达。

And myself, I communicate better with my hands.

所以我想，对很多社区成员来说，城市是一个充满回忆和感官体验的地方。

So I thought, and for a lot of community members, the city is a place of memories and sensory experiences.

规划师们几乎没有工具来捕捉这些无形的特质。

Planners have very few tools to capture these kind of intangible qualities.

所以对我们规划师来说，我们把土地使用规划对了，但人们感觉不对。

So for planners, we get the land use right, but they're feeling wrong.

我们能设计出给车走的街道，却设计不出给人走的。

We can design streets for cars, but not for humans.

所以我就想，如果我们像小时候那样通过玩耍来设计城市会怎么样？或者说，我自己就是这么做的。因为小时候，我们大脑的指挥中心——前额叶皮层——还没发育完全。

So I thought, what if we designed cities like we did as children through play, or this is how I did, because as children, our brain's command center, our prefrontal cortex, is not fully developed.

所以我们用感官和想象力去探索世界。

So we used our senses and imagination to explore the world.

我们玩耍、分享，没有任何目的性。

And we played and we shared without any kind of agenda.

所以我回到童年，开发了一个地方，让人们用实物来构建他们的城市规划方案。

So I went back to my childhood and developed a place where people used objects to build their urban planning solutions.

我当时把这个方法介绍给规划师们，很多人很犹豫，因为这不是基于测量或数据的。

I introduced this approach to planners at that time and a lot them were hesitant because it wasn't based on measurement or data.

而且，他们担心人们会造出城市无法实现的东西，比如一个通往月球的发射台。

And plus, they were worried that people would build things that the city couldn't deliver on, such as a launching pad to the moon.

但我没有选择那个绝妙的想法，而是走了另一条路。

But instead of a fabulous idea, I took a different path.

我和朋友们一起办了一个艺术画廊，在那里实践我的方法。

With friends, I put up an art gallery where I could put my method into practice.

我会在桌上摆满成千上万个小回收物品，让人们用它们来搭建他们理想中的城市。

I would lay out thousands of small recycling objects on a table and have people just build their ideal city from them.

结果非常受欢迎。

And it was a hit.

人们很有创造力，也很善于社交，他们会待上五分钟或者几个小时。

People were creative and they were social and they would stay for five minutes or a few hours.

我看到了在社区会议上见不到的快乐面孔。

I saw a happy sighted people that I would not see at community meetings.

在主持了数百场互动艺术装置活动之后，我合写了一本书，想弄明白为什么这个方法有效。

So after facilitating hundreds of hands on art installations, I co wrote a book to understand why this process worked.

在座有多少人……

And how many of you here...

你们当中有多少人不到26岁？

How many of are under the age of 26?

举手让我看看。

Raise your hands.

嗯，你们的大脑还没完全发育好呢。

Well, your brains aren't fully formed yet.

所以你们有潜力去大胆想象，创造性地思考。

So you have capacity to think big and think creatively.

过了26岁，你的前额叶皮层就发育完全了。

After 26, your piphonal cortex is formed.

那时候你更关心生存之类的事情。

And now you more about survival and that.

所以人们会更在意停车位，而不是发挥想象力。

So people would think more about parking than their imagination.

所以通过玩耍，我们可以摆脱生存模式，把城市看作一个充满创造力的想象空间。

So through play, we could figure out survival mode and think about the city as an imagination with creativity.

所以最终，城市规划者们又重新注意到了他们，并且采纳了我的方法。

So eventually, city planners took notice them again and embraced my method.

我的城市工作坊或者游戏约会，对各个年龄段、各种背景和语言的人都是开放的。

My city workshops or play dates are accessible to people of all ages, background and languages.

它们从一个非常简单的提示开始。

They go with a very simple prompt.

用五分钟时间，用物品搭建你最喜欢的童年记忆。

Build your favorite child memory in five minutes using objects.

别光说，直接动手搭。

Don't talk about it, build it.

因为一旦你再次搭建出那个记忆，它就变得真实，并激发你去建造这些未来的城市。

Because once you build that memory again, it becomes real and inspires you to build these cities of the future.

当人们开始摆弄这些物品时，他们会放下分析性思维，进入一种创造性的流动状态。

As people start to the objects, they let go of analytical thinking to enter a creative flow state.

这就像艺术疗法一样。

It's like art therapy.

他们开始换一种方式思考。

They start thinking differently.

物体的颜色和形状会让人想起他们喜欢的活动和地方。

The colors and the shapes of the objects remind people of activities and places that they love.

比如，卷发棒会让非裔美国女性想起和长辈一起做头发的时光，而一片橙色的枫叶会让新英格兰的人想起秋天。

For example, hair rollers will remind African American women the importance of doing hair with their elders, while an orange maple leaf will remind people from New England about fall.

每个人都会搭建并分享自己的记忆，这些故事各不相同，有的是参加夏令营，有的是和朋友一起玩假想游戏，有的是学骑自行车。

Everybody builds and everybody shares their memory, and these stories vary from attending summer camp, creating make believe games, you know, hanging out with friends or learning how to ride a bike.

等大家都分享完故事后，我问：这些记忆有什么共同点？

After everybody shared their story, I asked, what do some of these memories have in common?

大多数都是和家人朋友在一起的社交活动。

Most of them are social with family and friends.

这些记忆还涉及多种感官，而且常常发生在户外的大自然中。

They're also multisensory and often take place outdoors in nature.

孩子们都很好动。

Children are physically active.

他们从来不会提到看电视或者玩手机这样的活动。

They never build past activities like watching TV or on screen time.

也没有人会提到拥有很多玩具、财富或者资产。

And no one builds ownership or wealth and having a lot of toys.

最重要的是，从来没有人会提到准时到校。

And most importantly, no one ever builds getting to school on time.

所以，大家当时没有意识到，无论年龄、收入、种族还是地域，他们之间的共同点比想象中要多得多。

So people, and people didn't realize at that moment that across ages, income, race and geography, they have more in common than they thought.

于是，整个房间瞬间从充满个人观点的场所，变成了一个倾听、共情和分享共同价值观的地方。

So suddenly the room transforms from a place of individual opinions into one of listening, empathy and shared values.

所以，在我们开始规划或动工之前，我们必须以这种归属感来开启我们的会议。

So before we start to plan or lay out the brick and mortar, we have to begin our meetings with this feeling of belonging.

现在，大家都准备好去玩耍和规划了。

So now people are ready to play and plan.

所以我们让大家分组合作，在十分钟内创建他们理想中的社区。

So we ask people to work in teams to create their ideal community in ten minutes.

可以用同样的物品，或者更多，因为他们可以协作、协商和妥协。

Use the same objects or more, because they can collaborate, negotiate and compromise.

所以当他们在桌上摆放物品，在想象中的景观里移动它们时，他们的想法开始相互交织。

So their ideas begin to intersect with each other as they place objects on the table and they move them around in their imagined landscapes.

个人的想法在别人的帮助下变成集体的，新的可能性也随之出现。

Individual ideas become collective with the help of others and new possibilities emerge.

而这是很难通过文字、语言或地图来实现的。

And this would be difficult to do through words, languages or maps.

所以，时间一到，所有团队分享他们的价值观和愿景。在我多年见证的数百个愿景中，无论他们是谁，人们想要的城市都是一样的。

So, once time is up, all the teams share their values, share their visions and from the hundreds of visions I witnessed over the years, no matter who they are, people want the same kind of city.

他们想要一个与自然和他人有联系的城市。

They want a city of relationships with nature and other people.

为了说明这一点，团队们建造了适合步行和骑行的社区，以家人和朋友为中心。

So to illustrate this, the teams build walkable bikeable community that are focused on family and friends.

他们建造公共空间、广场、公共交通和花园，让它们占据城市中心，而不是摩天大楼。

They build public spaces, plazas and public transportation and garden to dominate the city centers, not skyscrapers.

就像你童年的记忆一样，这些地方充满了公园、自然、树木、水以及各种体育活动，是多感官的场所。

And like your childhood memories, they're multi sensory places filled with parks, nature, trees, water, and ranged physical activities.

他们把高速公路变成了花园。

They turn freeways into gardens.

这些团队并没有建造那种以办公楼园区、高速公路和停车场为主的交易型城市。

The teams don't build transactional cities with office parks, freeways, parking lots.

没有人会在郊区建一栋大房子然后每天通勤上班。

No one builds a giant house in the suburbs and the commute to work.

也没有人建封闭式社区或监狱，因为他们是从快乐出发来规划的。

And no one builds gated communities or jails because they're planning from joy.

这带来了很大的不同。

That makes a big difference.

这里有两个我最喜欢的项目：卡米诺维德和墨西哥蒂华纳的阿卡斯特德洛斯阿迪达斯。

So here are two of my favorite projects, Camino Verde and Acast De Los Adidas in Tijuana, Mexico.

蒂华纳的大多数非正规居住区，比如卡米诺维德，都是快速建成的，缺乏基本的基础设施，尤其是公共空间。

Most informal settlements in Tijuana like Camino Verde were built very quickly and they lacked basic infrastructure and especially public spaces.

所以我就被邀请去主持一个基层社区会议，设计那边的社区中心。

So I was invited to facilitate a grassroots community meeting to design a community center down there.

那次会议非常成功。

It was a big success.

我们给了市政府十页的笔记，都是社区里大家的想法。

We gave the city 10 pages of notes, ideas from the community.

那边的社区已经拿到了一个社区中心，但他们还得到了Casa de los Idias，这个名字的意思是“创意之家”。

The community there already got a community center, but they also got Casa de los Idias, which found this to House of Ideas.

那是一个开放的图书馆空间，人们可以在那里阅读和做演讲。

It's an open space for a library where people can read and give talks.

第二个项目是亚利桑那州凤凰城的第50街轻轨站。

The second project is the 50 Street light rail station in Phoenix, Arizona.

2008年，凤凰城市政府资助了“能力360中心”，那是一个最先进的娱乐和社区中心。

In 2008, the city of Phoenix helped fund the Ability three sixty Center, is a state of the art recreation center and community center.

每天都有数百名残障人士使用这个中心。

It's used daily by hundreds of people with disabilities.

但街对面就是一个轻轨站。

But across the street is a light rail station.

那时候，最近的车站离这里也有差不多一英里远，两边都是。

At that time, the closest station were a mile apart in either direction.

在凤凰城那么热的太阳底下，让残障人士走一英里路，可能会危及生命。

And into the hot, hot Phoenix Sun, a mile walk with persons with disabilities could be life threatening.

所以我们办了一个工作坊，让每个人根据自己的残障情况，设计他们理想中的车站。

So we did a workshop where it had individuals build their ideal station based on a disability.

这样对他们来说才实用。

It would work for them.

他们设计完之后，分组合作，把各自的想法融合起来，打造出他们最终的车站设计方案。

So after they did that, they worked in teams and merged their ideas to create their ultimate rail station designs.

他们想出的这些方案，确实帮他们解决了出行难题，所以他们也成了这个潜在中间站点的积极倡导者。

So these solutions they created kind of helps solve their mobility challenges, so they became the advocates for this potential infill station.

多年来，他们一直给市长和议员打电话、写信、发邮件，直到2019年，车站终于建成了，这让他们去中心方便多了，也独立多了。

So for many years, made phone calls, wrote letters, sent emails to their mayor and the consul person until 2019 they finally got a station built, which gives them a lot more independence to get to the center.

而且，他们的设计还体现在车站里，比如彩绘的人行横道、低坡度的路缘、低矮的人行道、艺术装置、闪烁的遮阳设施，还有绿化隔离带，用来保护她不受街道的干扰。

Plus, saw their designs in the stations, painted crosswalks, low grade, low sidewalks, artwork, twinkly shade, and you know, landscape buffers to protect her from the street.

这样一来，城市规划又变得人性化了。

So to play, City of Planning becomes human again.

人们不只是描述它，而是展示它、感受它，并且真正拥有它。

People don't just describe it, they show it, they feel and they own it.

就在那一刻，有些东西开始改变了。

And that moment something shifts.

他们不再是被动的参与者，而是变成了自己社区的积极设计者和远见者。

They stop being passive participants and they start being active designers, visionaries of their own communities.

这给规划者和公众提供了一种新的城市塑造方式，不是简单地重复已有的东西，而是去想象更好的未来。

And this gives the planners and the public a new way of shaping cities, not just repeating what we already have, but imagining something better.

有时候，我们最有力的工具就是玩。

And sometimes the most powerful tool we have to do this is to play.

谢谢。

Thank you.

刚才那是詹姆斯·罗哈斯在2026年TED大会上关于“玩”的演讲。

That was James Rojas speaking at Play at TED in 2026.

接下来，TED策展人克洛伊·莎莎·布鲁克斯将带我们认识詹姆斯，包括他一度想把演讲机会让给别人，以及为什么这项工作对他意义重大。

And now here's TED curator Chloe Shasha Brooks on getting to know James, including the moment he tried to hand his TED Talk to someone else and why this work means so much to him.

嗨。

Hi.

感谢收听詹姆斯·罗哈斯的演讲。

Thanks for listening to James Rojas' talk.

我是克洛伊·莎莎·布鲁克斯，在纽约市向你问好。

I'm Chloe Shasha Brooks speaking to you from New York City.

我想你从他的演讲中也能感受到，詹姆斯是我见过的最善良、最真诚的人之一。

As I think you've just sensed from his talk, James is one of the kindest, most earnest people I've ever met.

在准备演讲的过程中，有一次他转过身来，耸耸肩，带着真诚的微笑对我说：“我真的很热爱我所做的事。”

As we prepared for his talk, he once turned to me, shrugged, and with a genuine smile said, I really love what I do.

他告诉我，他做这项工作是因为城市规划领域很大程度上把女性、有色人种和残障人士排除在外，而这些群体恰恰是受城市规划决策影响最大的人。

He told me that he does this work because much of the urban planning world excludes women, people of color, and people with disabilities, and yet these are the people most affected by urban planning decisions.

而且就像他在演讲中提到的，他一直很喜欢玩玩具，用捡来的东西搭建各种结构。

And as he mentioned in his talk, he has always loved playing with toys and building structures out of found objects.

他能把这份爱好变成一份促进包容、让社区变得更好的事业，真的很了不起。

It's pretty cool that he found a way to turn that into a career that fosters inclusion and that leads to the betterment of communities.

而且他非常谦虚。

And he's humble.

我们第一次通话时，才认识几分钟，他就建议让他的伴侣约翰·坎普来演讲。

On our first call together, within a couple of minutes of meeting, he actually suggested that his partner, John Camp, should give the talk instead.

当时约翰就坐在他旁边的视频画面里。

John was sitting right next to him in the video frame.

我根本不知道约翰会出现在通话中。

I didn't even know that John was gonna be on the call.

詹姆斯解释说，约翰更擅长公开演讲。

James explained, John is more of the public speaker.

于是我就问了约翰关于他工作的事情。

So I asked John about his work.

约翰·坎普是一位景观和城市设计师。

John Camp is a landscape and urban designer.

他跟我详细讲了他的工作，真的非常吸引人。

He told me all about his work, which was really compelling.

但我还是坚持原来的计划，我跟詹姆斯说，我们真的很希望你能在这个以游戏为主题的TED活动上做演讲。

But I stuck with my original plan, and I told James, we'd really like for you to do the talk at this play themed TED event.

你是这套游戏方法的创始人。

You're the originator of this play methodology.

他点了点头，说，好的。

He nodded, he said, okay.

他会尽力的。

He would do his best.

2026年5月的活动结束后，我们在附近一家屋顶餐厅为所有演讲者举办了庆祝活动。

After the event in May 2026, we had a celebration for all of the speakers at a nearby rooftop restaurant.

我和詹姆斯坐在一起，吃着几小盘薯条和蔬菜沙拉，他跟我聊了更多关于他的生活、他在洛杉矶所在的社区，还有他即将主持的新的Placeit工作坊，以及他高中时选了一门建筑课，以为会很适合自己，结果却非常痛苦，因为建筑课教得非常技术化，特别注重规则。

James and I sat together over small plates of french fries and crudites, and he told me more about his life, the community he's a part of in Los Angeles, new Placeit workshops he was about to lead, and how in high school he took an architecture class thinking it would be perfect for him, and instead he was miserable because architecture was taught in a very technical way with a major focus on the rules.

他明白那些技能为什么重要，但他一直是用非常身体化的方式去感受建筑的。

He understood why those skills mattered, but he had always experienced buildings in a very physical way.

他想通过指尖去理解建筑的形状。

He wanted to understand their shapes through his fingertips.

他还跟我讲了他演讲中提到的亚利桑那州凤凰城Ability360中心的更完整的故事。

He also told me a longer version of the story he shared in his talk about the Ability360 Center in Phoenix, Arizona.

那是一个为残障人士设计的社区中心。

This is the community center designed for folks with disabilities.

他邀请了一群有不同残障的人参加他主持的工作坊，让他们通过玩耍和设计来想象这个社区中心需要什么。

He invited a group of people with different disabilities to participate in a workshop that he led where they were able to play and design in order to imagine what they would need for this community center.

那次工作坊讨论的主要话题之一，就是这些人如何从最近的两个轻轨站往返Ability360中心。

One of the main topics of discussion at that workshop was how these folks would get from the two closest light rail stations to the Ability360 Center and back.

每个站离中心都有一英里远。

Each station was a mile away from the center.

如果一个人行动不便，一英里是很长的路程，尤其是在亚利桑那炎热的太阳下。

A mile is a long trip if someone can't move quickly, especially under the hot Arizona sun.

所以，这个工作坊的成果帮助确定了人行道的高度、人行横道和遮阳结构的设计，以保护人们免受亚利桑那州烈日暴晒，在Ability360中心和最近的两个轻轨站之间。

So the outcome of this workshop helped shape the height of the sidewalks, the crosswalks, and the shade structures to protect people from the sun between the Ability360 Centre and the two closest light rail stations.

詹姆斯分享说，这些具体而细微的需求在传统城市规划中很少被考虑。

James shared that these kind of specific, nuanced needs are rarely considered in traditional urban planning.

我相信这一点。

I believe that.

在遇到詹姆斯之前，我绝不会想到一堆卷发器和塑料瓶盖竟然能带来真正的改变。

Before meeting James, I would have never guessed that a pile of hair rollers and plastic bottle caps would actually lead to real change.

我很高兴我错了。

I'm so glad I was wrong about that.

如果你对TED的策展感兴趣，请访问ted.com/curationguidelines。

If you're curious about TED's curation, visit ted.com/curationguidelines.

今天的内容就到这里。

And that's it for today.

TED Talks Daily是TED的一档播客。

TED Talks Daily is a podcast from TED.

本期节目由TED研究团队进行事实核查，制作和编辑由我们的团队完成，包括奥利弗·弗里德曼、露西·利特尔、艾玛·陶布纳和坦西卡·桑加尼万特。

This episode was fact checked by the TED research team and produced and edited by our team, Oliver Friedman, Lucy Little, Emma Taubner, and Tansika Sungarnivant.

此外，还要感谢丹妮拉·巴洛雷佐、克里斯托弗·法伊兹·博根、瓦伦蒂娜·博哈尼尼、张班班和莱尼·洛特的额外支持。

Additional support from Daniella Balorezo, Christopher Faizy Bogan, Valentina Bohanini, Banban Chang, and Lainie Lott.

更多内容请访问podcasts.ted.com。

Learn more at podcasts.ted.com.

我是艾莉丝·胡。

I am Elise Hu.

明天我会带着一个新想法回来，让你的耳朵享受一下。

I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feet.

感谢收听。

Thanks for listening.

进化心理学家彼得·格雷说，现在的孩子们缺少了一些根本性的东西。

Evolutionary psychologist Peter Gray says kids are missing something fundamental these days.

所有幼年哺乳动物都会玩耍，而玩耍确实是它们成长过程中至关重要的一部分。

All young mammals play, and play is really an essential part of their growing up.

这就是本期NPR的TED广播时刻。

That's next time on the TED Radio Hour from NPR.

无论你在哪里收听播客，都可以订阅TED广播时刻。

Listen and subscribe to the TED Radio Hour wherever you get your podcasts.