我为什么爱我的糟糕日子 | 亚历克西·帕帕斯

你正在收听《TED每日演讲》，每天为我们带来激发好奇心的新观点。

You're listening to TED Talks Daily where we bring you new ideas to spark your curiosity every day.

我是你的主持人，伊莉丝·胡。

I'm your host, Elise Hu.

通常，当我们过得不顺时，最希望的就是这一天赶紧结束。

Usually, when we have a bad day, we want nothing more than for it to be over.

奥运选手亚历克西·帕帕斯也是这样。

The same was true for Olympic runner, Alexi Pappas.

就在里约奥运会前一个月，她在训练中怎么也跑不出理想的配速。

One month before the Rio Olympics, she couldn't hit her splits in practice.

她心情糟糕透顶，甚至求着手表快点改变时间。

She was miserable and begged her watch to change its mind.

后来，她的教练给了她一条她至今认为最棒的建议。

Then her coach shared some of the best advice she says she's ever received.

现在，我反而特别珍惜那些不顺的日子。

And I love my bad days now.

在这段演讲中，亚历克西分享了这些建议，还有她所说的‘三分法则’。

In this talk, Alexi shares this advice and what she calls the rule of thirds.

这条简单的智慧不仅帮她打破了国家纪录，也彻底改变了她追求目标的方式，贯穿了她的超马生涯、回忆录，以及三部电影的创作。

How this single piece of wisdom led her to break a national record and changed how she chases her goals, carrying through her ultramarathons, a memoir, and three films.

亚历克西对这些体会的了解，不只是来自运动员的身份，更因为她亲身经历过最艰难的日子。

Alexi knows this not just as an athlete, but as someone who's lived through some of the hardest days imaginable.

演讲结束后，我和她坐下来聊了聊，想更深入地了解：在运动之外，‘三分法则’到底意味着什么？如何与痛苦和平共处，而不是仅仅熬过去？当你觉得一切已无望时，她希望人们明白什么才能继续走下去。

I sat down with her after her talk to dig deeper into what the rule of thirds looks like beyond sport, what it means to befriend pain rather than survive it, and what she wants folks to know about how to keep going even when you think it's impossible.

你依然可以在没有信心的情况下，选择行动。

You can still commit to action without belief.

我当时并不相信自己会变好，但我听懂了医生的话，于是哪怕没有信心，我还是坚持去做了该做的事。

I did not believe I would get better, but I understood what my doctor was saying and I just committed to actions even without the belief.

她的演讲和我们的对话，马上在短暂的广告后继续。

Her talk and our conversation are coming up right after a short break.

从全球化到创新，从可持续发展到市场波动，每个故事背后都有不止一种声音。

From globalization to innovation, sustainability to market volatility, there's always more than one side to a story.

通过巴克莱银行的《反面观点》播客，深入了解当今最重要的商业与经济议题的多元视角。

Explore different perspectives on today's most important business and economic issues with the flip side podcast from Barclays Bank.

这里有两位研究分析师展开激烈辩论，带你从各个角度获得洞见，帮你更全面地看待问题。

Here are two research analysts in a lively debate and get insights from every angle to further inform your view.

在你常用的播客平台收听《反面观点》。

Listen to the flip side on your favorite platform.

很多职场建议听起来头头是道，可真要动手做，往往就不管用了。

A lot of work advice sounds good in theory, but falls apart when you actually try to use it.

我就是要改变这种状况。

I'm on a mission to change that.

我是莫莉·格雷厄姆，创业者，也是TED出品的《工作与生活》播客的新主持人。

I'm Molly Graham, a company builder and the new host of Work Life, a podcast from TED.

我职业生涯一直待在高速成长的公司里，我非常清楚一点：工作本来就是一团乱麻。

I've spent my career inside fast growing companies, and one thing I know for sure is that work is messy.

在这个新一季里，我特别期待和各位创始人、管理者以及创意人士聊聊，揭开他们最耀眼成就背后的真实故事——那些没人会在领英上发的教训。

In this new season, I'm excited to share my conversations with founders, operators, and creatives about the real story behind their shiniest successes, the lessons that no one ever posts on LinkedIn.

现在就去你常用的播客平台收听《Work Life》。

Listen now on Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.

接下来是今天精选的TED演讲与对话。

And now our TED Talk and conversation of the day.

就在里约奥运会10000米比赛前一个月，我在一次关键训练中怎么也跑不出应有的配速。

I was one month out from my Olympic race in Rio, the 10,000 meters, when I couldn't hit my splits in a very important workout.

我当时就想，我该怎么办？

And I thought, what am I gonna do?

我够格吗？

Am I good enough?

我在第一道上哭了。

I cried in lane one.

我值得吗？

Was I even worth it?

如果连五个队友面前我都跑不好，我又怎么能在全世界数以千计的观众面前完成比赛？

If I couldn't do this in front of my five teammates, could I do it in front of thousands of people on the world stage?

当我的教练——他也是一位奥运选手——平静而自信地对我说话时，我还在恳求手表改变显示的数字。

I begged my watch to change its mind when my coach, who is also an Olympian, turned to me and said something calmly and confidently.

把表摘了，他说。

Take your watch off, he said.

什么？

What?

把表摘了。

Take your watch off.

他以前从没这么跟我说过，所以我以为自己可能不够格。

He'd never said this to me before, so I thought maybe I wasn't good enough.

他说：不是的，莱克斯，这是三分法则。

And he said, no, Lex, it's the rule of thirds.

三分法则是啥？

What's the rule of thirds?

我问。

I asked.

然后他给了我这辈子听过最好的建议。

And then he told me the best advice I've ever gotten in my entire life.

三分法则就是，当你追逐梦想或做任何有挑战的事时，应该有三分之一的时间感觉很好，三分之一的时间感觉还行，另外三分之一的时间感觉糟透了。

The rule of thirds is that when you're chasing a dream or doing anything hard, you're supposed to feel good a third of the time, okay a third of the time, and crappy a third of the time.

如果你一直感觉特别好，那可能说明比例失调了，你还没逼自己突破潜能的边界，走进未知的领域。

If you felt too good all the time, it might be a sign that the ratio's off and you're not pushing yourself enough to go beyond the boundaries of your potential into the great unknown.

你可能需要加把劲。

You might need to dial things up.

但如果你一直感觉特别糟，那可能说明你已经疲惫了，或者在做一件无法持续的事，这时候你反而该适当放松。

But if you feel too bad all the time, that might mean that you are fatiguing or doing something unsustainable, and you might need to actually dial things back.

只要你处在这个比例里，那些糟糕的日子就不再是坏事。

If you're within this ratio, then the bad days aren't bad.

它们只是说明你在追逐梦想。

They just mean you're chasing a dream.

那天，教练让我摘下手表，因为那根本不是关于配速的事。

That day, my coach had me take my watch off because it wasn't about pace.

关键是付出的努力。

It was about effort.

我现在反而特别珍惜那些状态差的日子。

And I love my bad days now.

从那天起，这个原则彻底改变了我的看法，一直影响着我往后的人生。

So this rule has really changed my perspective that day and for the rest of my life.

那天我回到跑道上，即使感觉跑得不够快，还是拼尽全力完成了训练。

That day, I got back on the track and I finished the workout giving a 100% effort even when I didn't feel 100% fast.

后来我去了奥运会，打破了国家纪录，还跑出了个人最好成绩。

And then I went to the Olympics, and I broke a national record, and I ran a personal best.

那真是太棒了。

And it was awesome.

真的太棒了。

It was awesome.

奥运会真的太精彩了。

The the Olympics is awesome.

我的教练说得对。

My coach was right.

明白吗？

Okay?

他真的说对了。

He was right.

这个原则不仅帮到了我的跑步，也成了我整个人生的处事方式。

And this rule has not only helped me in my running, but it's how I live the rest of my life.

我写《Bravey》这本书，也是用的这个方法。

It's how I wrote my book Bravey.

拍那三部电影，我用的是这个方法，就连每天看待自己、感受情绪、思考心态，我都沿用这个态度。

It's how I've directed three movies, and it's even how I look at myself day to day, how I feel, how I think about my mood and my emotions.

对。

Okay.

奥运会几年后，我觉得自己还没跑够，就报名参加了一场超长马拉松。

A few years after the Olympics, I guess I wasn't done running, I went and entered this big ultramarathon.

这意味着跑的距离超过了马拉松。

And that means it's over a marathon.

这可不是普通的比赛，而是全美最难的越野赛——落基山脉的莱德维尔一百英里赛，距离是我奥运比赛的16倍，海拔上升超过一万五千英尺，统计上只有一半的参赛者能完赛。

And it was not just any race, it was the hardest race in the country, the Leadville one hundred mile race in the Rocky Mountains, and it's 16 times the distance my Olympic race, over 15,000 feet of elevation, and only half the people who start finish this race statistically.

你得通宵跑，简直疯狂。

You go all night, it's wild.

这跟奥运会完全相反。

And so it's the opposite of the Olympics.

对吧？

Right?

不在乎速度、时间或者名次。

It's not about pace or time or place.

关键是保持专注，一直往前走。

It's about being present and just continuing to move.

那时候身边没有教练来盯着我的节奏。

And there was no coach out there to monitor my thirds.

在这场比赛里，我经历了各种各样的情绪，喜怒哀乐全都有。

And during this race, I felt every feeling under the sun and under the moon.

有时候我觉得自己是个勇敢又坚强的探险者，可下一刻又差点撑不下去。

And, you know, it was like I was a brave, capable voyager in one moment, and then I was barely hanging on in others.

以前的我，遇到这么艰难的时刻肯定会特别沮丧，尤其是在树林里那段路，真的特别难熬。

A past me would have felt really down about the really hard moments, and there were some really hard moments in the woods.

但现在我明白了，这些困难只是更大成功图景中的一部分。

But now I understood this was a part of a bigger picture of success.

就在同一场比赛中，有那么一刻，我真的觉得自己再也跑不动了。

Now in the same race, there was a point at which I felt like I couldn't run anymore.

感觉双腿像插了金属棒一样，只能一步一步地走。

Like, felt like I had metal rods in my legs, and I had to walk.

那一整晚，我整整走了最后四十英里，但始终没有放弃。

And I actually walked the last 40 miles of that race through the night all night, but I didn't give up.

这段经历让我学会放下控制欲，相信过程，全心全意地活在当下。

And it really taught me to let go of control and just believe in the process and be really, really present.

如果我们退后一步看，三分法能帮我们看清追求更大梦想的全过程，从而更好地评估和反思。

If we step back, the rule of thirds can help us see the picture of a bigger dream chasing journey and evaluate and assess.

在痛苦的时刻，它能让我们即使没有教练、没有人提醒，也依然站在自己这一边，明白这一切本就该如此。

And in a moment of pain, it can help us stay on our own team even when there's no coach or anyone else there to tell you that it was meant to be this way.

别总想着要当第一，问问自己有没有尽全力，然后别放弃。

Instead of asking yourself to be the best, ask yourself to try your best, and don't give up.

明白吗？

Okay?

这只是糟糕的一天。

It's a bad day.

但不是糟糕的人生。

It's not a bad life.

我觉得，我教练教我三分法的那天，一定是他人生中最好的三分之一，因为那天，他教会了我如何理解自己、引导自己。

I think that that day that my coach taught me the rule of thirds must have been his good third because that day, he taught me how to understand and coach myself.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这是亚历克西·帕帕斯，别走开。

That was Alexi Pappas, and don't go away.

我接下来会和她展开对话。

My conversation with her is coming up.

广告后，我们会聊聊亚历克西在跑道上以及人生中学会的那些事——如何与痛苦做朋友，如何信任过程，还有很多别的内容。

We get into what Alexi's learned from her time on the track and beyond about befriending pain, trusting the process, and so much more right after the break.

今年，全球193个国家正在选举一位新的联合国秘书长。

This year, 193 countries are electing a new secretary general of the United Nations.

这背后牵涉的分量很重。

And there's a lot at stake.

如果我们做不出正确的决定，联合国对全人类的意义就会大打折扣。

If we don't make the right type of decisions, that is the relevance of the UN for the rest of humanity.

联合国现在最需要什么样的领导人？

What kind of leader does the UN need right now?

候选人又该怎样准备，才能在2027年1月接下这份工作？

And how does a candidate prepare to take on this job in January 2027?

所有这些内容，都在《世界上最艰难的工作》这档播客里，无论你在哪里听播客。

We'll get into all of it on World's Toughest Job, wherever you get your podcasts.

Alexi，谢谢你愿意来和我聊聊。

Alexi, thanks for sitting down with me.

在你的演讲里，你提到自己在第一道上哭着求手表改变结果的那一刻。

In your talk, you describe your moment in lane one where you were crying and begging your watch to change its mind.

我值得吗？你问了这个问题。

Was I even worth it, you ask?

这可不只是个体育问题。

And that's not just an athletic question.

我觉得很多听友都明白，事情从来都不是那么简单。

I think a lot of folks listening know it's never that easy.

那天你究竟是怎么迈出第一步的？你花了多久才真正把这些建议变成自己的信念？

So what did it actually take to get off the ground that day, and how long did it take you to really embody this advice?

是的。

Yeah.

说实话，那天我在跑道上，教练和队友都在身边。

I mean, I think that the truth was I was at the track with my coach and with my teammates.

如果你信任你的教练，那在你对自己失去信心的时候，你依然可以相信他们。

And the safe thing about being with your coach if you trust and believe in them is that you get to trust and believe in them when you don't feel the belief in yourself.

那天，我身边是一群见过我无数次低谷和高光的队友，还有那位亲自参加过奥运会的教练。

And so that day, I was with teammates who'd already seen me plenty of times crying and in my best and in my worst and a coach who had been to the Olympics himself.

所以，某种程度上，我只是选择暂时放下怀疑，去相信他。

And so I think part of it was just deferring, you know, or suspending my own disbelief in trusting him.

当他让我站起来，换个角度看问题的时候，我就照做了。

When he told me, you know, to get up and see the situation differently.

你知道吧？

You know?

我觉得真相就是，我确实需要依靠别人的信任才能站起来。

I think that was that was the truth, that it did take some trust in somebody else.

你提到的‘三分法则’，最初只是训练时用的方法，但现在它已经成了我生活的整体方式。

The rule of thirds that you talked about started as a training tool, but it's become how you kind of live your whole life now.

那么，在体育之外，你在哪里最难应用这个三分法则呢？

So what was the hardest place you have had to apply this rule of thirds outside the sport?

有意思的是，这其实可以应用在我们日常生活的方方面面。

Well, it's interesting because this can apply to, like, you know, a day in our life.

对吧？

Right?

比如，一天可能开头不太顺，但最后依然可以过得很充实。

Like, can have a day that just starts out like not great and it can still be a really good day.

对我而言，这个法则帮了大忙，尤其是在那些耗时远超预期、成果又不明显的大型创作项目里，每天坚持出现特别重要。

I think for me, where it has helped me is in really big creative projects that take a lot longer than you would like and ones where you don't have so much to show for it, but showing up every day is really important.

比如说，拍一部电影，要花大量时间和精力，其中大部分都是不光彩的琐碎工作。

So, like, putting a feature film together, for example, is so much time and effort, and there's so much unglamorous work that goes in.

你会听到很多次拒绝，但这些拒绝并不意味着项目就没戏了。

There's a lot of no's, but that no's don't mean the project can't happen.

所以我觉得，它对我自己的创作工作帮助很大。

And so I think it's helped me with the creative work that I do.

我感情上经历了一次很大的动荡。

I had, like, a big personal upheaval in my relationship.

那会儿这个理念真的帮了我大忙。

It really helped there.

还有就是，人成长的过程里。

And maybe just growing up.

对吧？

Right?

奥运会之后，我经历了一段很大的转变，那确实是一个漫长的过程。

Like, for me, I've been through a big evolution post Olympics, and that has been, you know, a process.

在这方面，它也给了我很多支持。

And so it's helped me a lot there too.

你刚才提到感情上的动荡，其实你这一生也经历过很多其他的痛苦。

You just talked about relationship upheaval, and you've struggled with all sorts of other pain in your life as well.

你小时候看着妈妈饱受精神疾病和成瘾的折磨，最后她不幸因自杀离世。

You grew up watching your mom struggle with mental illness and addiction and sadly lost her to suicide.

你自己也经历过抑郁，而你的书的副标题正是‘追逐梦想，与痛苦为友’。

You have struggled with depression yourself, and the subtitle of your book is actually chasing dreams, befriending pain.

‘与痛苦为友’这个词特别有意思，我想问问你，这并不是简单地忍受痛苦或硬撑过去，而是真正去和痛苦做朋友，为什么这么说呢？

Befriending is such a specific word, which I want to ask you about, not necessarily surviving pain or pushing through it, but befriending pain.

你为什么会选这个词？

Why choose that term?

那你现在是怎么看待痛苦的？

And how do you relate to pain today?

这是个很好的问题。

It's a great question.

我觉得痛苦其实可以分成两种。

I mean, I think there's two kinds of pain.

对吧？

Right?

一种是好的痛苦，一种是坏的痛苦。

There's, like, good pain and bad pain.

好的疼痛，我想到的是跑步冲线时的疲惫、锻炼完后的酸痛，或者写一篇特别难写的东西时那种挣扎。

And good pain, I associate with, like, the pain at the end of a race or at the end of a workout, or maybe even the pain of writing something that's really difficult for you.

这种疼痛是你自己选择面对的，你知道自己能安全地度过它，不会伤到身体。

Like, there it's it's pain that you have signed up for and that you know you can reasonably get out of healthily and safely.

这可能是一种脆弱的表现。

So it might be a vulnerability.

也可能是在变得更强的过程中必经的阶段。

It might be in the act of getting stronger.

这其实是你在突破自己的极限。

It might be pushing your limits.

而坏的疼痛，比如你受伤了还硬撑着跑步，或者正经历心理危机，这类疼痛就完全不同了。

Bad pain is like, you know, if you're injured and running, that's really simple, or if there's a mental health crisis going on, right, or some, you know, there's bad pain too.

所以我所说的‘与疼痛交朋友’，指的是和那种好的疼痛建立关系，试着把它看作一种感觉，而不是威胁。

And so when I say befriending pain, I think it's befriending the good kind of pain and it's trying to re reassociate it as like a sensation and not a threat.

我想，这就是与疼痛交朋友的真正含义。

So I think that's what it is to befriend it.

如果你主动选择了一件预计会很痛苦的事，那么与它交朋友，就意味着当痛苦来临时，你能像迎接晚餐客人一样自然地接纳它。

And to know that if you sign up for something that you expect to be painful, then befriending it means when it comes, you can kind of greet it like an expected guest at your dinner party maybe.

对吧？

Right?

早就知道它会来。

Like, knew it was coming.

说到底，能去探索这些，其实也是一种幸运。

I mean, there's a sense of, like, privilege in being able to, like, explore that stuff.

对吧？

Right?

参加比赛、挑战自己，这本身就是一种难得的福分。

Like, running a race and getting to push yourself is a real privilege and an opportunity.

所以在这种时候，你也不会那么自怜自艾了。

So it's feeling a little less sorry for yourself in those circumstances too.

我想回到跑步这个话题上，你之前说过，跑步时你感觉最像自己。

I wanna bring this back to running because you have said that you feel most like yourself when running.

经历了这么多，运动和身体的感知是如何帮助你更贴近真实的自己的？这种关系这些年又是怎么变化的？

With everything that you've been through, how has movement and just being in your body allowed you to connect with who you are, and how has this relationship evolved over the years?

是的。

Yeah.

它确实帮了我很多。

It's it has helped me a lot.

挺有意思的，因为备战奥运会或者任何一项具体的运动，其实是一种滋养的过程。

You know, it's interesting because training for the Olympics or training for any, like, specific athletic thing is really, like, an act of nurture.

对吧？

Right?

你会变得非常专注，目标也特别明确。

Like, you're you're becoming very siloed, very specific.

但对我来说，跑步最棒的地方在于，它让我和自己的本性连接起来。当我自由地跑，比如在小径上，或者和朋友一起跑的时候，我真的能感受到自己和内心深处的冒险天性连在了一起，这让我特别开心。

But to me, the best part about running is the way that it connects me with, like, my nature and the way that when I'm doing it in, like, a free enough circumstance or when I'm, like, out on the trails or running with friends, like, I really do feel this sense that I'm connecting with, like, more of my nature and this, like, adventurous side of myself, and it makes me really happy.

即使我曾经试着告诉自己：你知道吗？

And even when I've tried to, like, be like, you know what?

我会去试试网球或者其他我喜欢的运动，但最后总是会回到跑步上。

I'll try tennis or, like, these other sports, which I love, other sports, I just keep going back to running.

说到表达自己，我觉得跑步其实特别简单，也没人规定你得长什么样。

And in terms of, like, expressing myself, I think it's just a really simple sport, and and there's no rule that you need to look a certain way.

唯一的要求就是不停地动起来。

Like, the only point is to, like, keep moving.

如果这就是标准，那其中就有很大的自由空间。

And so there's a lot of freedom if that's the guideline.

这真让人受鼓舞。

This is inspiring.

听你这么一说，我真想中午去跑一趟。

I need to, like, take a midday run, just listening to you talk about this.

其实挺简单的，对吧？

Like, it is very easy, isn't it?

只要身体允许的话。

If we have the mobility.

亚历西，你去里约参加奥运会，打破了国家纪录，跑出了个人最好成绩，但之后却陷入低谷，经历了严重的抑郁。

Alexi, you went to the Olympics in Rio, broke a national record, ran a personal best, but then crashed afterwards and struggled with a deep depression.

在你的书《勇敢者》里，你提到那时你其实是在逃避失败，而不是朝着什么目标前进，你只是想证明自己有价值，想让人觉得你值得留下。

In your book Bravey, you write that you had been running away from failure rather than towards something, wanting to matter or wanting to prove you were worth staying for.

那这种转变是什么时候发生的？

When did that shift?

我觉得所有奥运选手赛后都会经历一段低潮，因为那股肾上腺素的冲劲实在太强了。

All Olympians, I think, experienced some kind of dip after because it's just such a, like, adrenal push.

你把太多时间和精力都投入进去了。

It's so much of your time and energy.

它曾经是你生活的绝对中心，所以赛后出现一些后遗症，其实再正常不过。

It's such it's such a focal point in your life, and so there's gonna be some, you know, aftermath.

对我来说，情况特别严重，因为我根本拒绝承认这种低谷可能发生。

For me, it was, like, really severe because I was just, like, rejecting that that was even possible.

我爸爸说：‘在这个世界上，除了不想活或者想死，其他什么事你都能扛过去，都没事。’

My dad was like, look, you could do anything in this world except die or want to die and it would be fine.

他跟我说，你可以做任何事，比如涂指甲油，想干嘛都行。

He was like, you can you can do anything, like finger paint, like do whatever you want.

那一刻我突然意识到，他说得对。

And there was something about that where I was like, you know, he's right.

如果我还想继续过我想要的生活，那我得选一种真正让我觉得有趣的生活。

So if I was gonna keep going and keep doing this life that I wanted to, I think I was signing up for one that needed to feel, like, fun, honestly.

我需要感受到自己是在朝更广阔的方向前进，而不是逼着自己非得达到某个目标不可。

And I needed to feel like I was running moving toward expansion instead of moving toward, like, a target that I needed to get to no matter what.

经历过那么低谷之后，当我重新找回对生活的热情时，那种感觉完全不一样了。

It was almost like after going to such a difficult place, once I started to feel that, like, lust for life again, I really felt it with a different orientation.

对吧？

Right?

我不再强迫自己不惜一切代价去达成结果了。

And my tempo was no longer, like, force an outcome at all costs.

而是学会接纳当下的自己，朝着那种开阔、自由的感觉走去，而不是一味追求效率和产出，看看能不能靠这种方式谋生——这很难，但更像一场充满冒险和乐趣的旅程。

It was more meet myself where I am and move toward, like, this expansive feeling instead of this productive feeling and see if I can make a living doing that, which is challenging, but kind of more like adventurous and fun.

对吧？

Right?

我现在做的就是，能不能做自己真正想做的事，不知道会去向哪里，但还能吃得上饭、付得起账单，你知道的？

That's like what I'm doing now is like, can I do what I really wanna do, not know where it's going and still be able to have food and pay my bills, you know?

这正是我现在在做的事。

Like, that's really where what I'm doing now.

一位医生把你的抑郁重新定义为一种心理创伤。

A doctor reframed your depression as a mental health injury.

是的。

Mhmm.

你的大脑也是身体的一部分。

Your brain's a body part.

它会受伤。

It can get hurt.

它也能康复。

It can also heal.

这对你的康复有帮助吗？

Was that helpful to you in unlocking recovery?

医生把抑郁看作一种心理创伤，这种说法对你来说有什么帮助？

How was the way that the doctor framed depression as a mental health injury potentially helpful to you?

这简直是最有帮助的一件事。

It was the most helpful thing.

所以，阿尔派亚医生，我最近在俄勒冈又见了他，因为……

So doctor Arpaia, I just got to see him in Oregon because I yeah.

我回去是为了纪念我拍的那部电影《特拉克镇》十周年，能见到他真的特别开心。

I went back there to do a ten year anniversary of this movie I made, Tracktown, and it was just so lovely to see him.

所以我一直和他保持着联系。

So I've kept in touch with him.

但那时候，刚结束奥运生涯，我面谈了好几位医生，我建议每个人都这么做——就像找教练一样，多见几个，找找哪个最适合你。

But, yeah, when I was post Olympic, I interviewed with a few doctors, which I I recommend anyone do just like you would meet a couple coaches if you were trying to find a coach or a couple physios or a couple mental health people.

关键是找到那个跟你合得来的人。

Like, you wanna find the person that works for you.

对吧？

Right?

见到他的时候，我就觉得，这个人我真能聊得来。

And when I met him, I was like, oh, I I connect with this person.

感觉是个可以信赖的人。

It feels like someone I can trust.

就像你信任教练一样。

Like, you trust a coach.

那时候我已经没什么可失去的了，所以我就对他掏心掏肺了。

And I had nothing to lose at that point, but to be really honest with him.

他用运动方面的说法跟我解释我当时的状况，说：亚历克西，这就像一种伤病，只不过发生在你的大脑里。

And when he relayed to me what was what was going on in this more athletic terms, meaning, you know, he said, Alexi, like, this is sort of like an injury, but it's on your brain.

我一下子就明白了。

It clicked for me.

之前那些心理健康的说法，都像一团模糊的云，我根本搞不懂。

Whereas before, all the mental health stuff felt like this amorphous cloud that I was like, didn't understand.

就好像我被一团云裹住了。

It's like that I was like enveloped by cloud.

我碰不到这团云，但它无处不在。

Like, I can't touch this cloud, but it's all over me.

当他把这比作一种伤时，我突然明白了，我可以像对待运动损伤一样，逐项分析它——这意味着需要时间。

And all of a sudden, when he said it was like an injury, I could look at every element of it just like I would an athletic injury, which means this is gonna take time.

我得有耐心。

I I need to be patient.

这不可能一夜之间就好起来。

This isn't gonna heal overnight.

我的行为会先改变，然后伤才会慢慢愈合。

My actions are gonna change first, and then eventually the injury will heal.

适合我的方法，不一定适合别人。

What works for me doesn't work for everybody else.

那些你康复身体损伤时会想到的事——比如骨折或肌肉撕裂——我开始把这些用在心理健康上。

Like, all these things, right, that you think about when you're healing like a broken body part or a torn muscle, I started to apply to my mental health.

那感觉特别好，因为正是它让我明白，我每天该怎么做才对。

And it was so nice because that is what guided me to know what do I do every day about this?

我该怎么看待自己？

How do I see myself?

然后我感觉自己是有希望的。

And then I felt helpable.

我觉得，不管我们是在追求远大目标，还是在疗愈自己，谁都希望感受到这种有希望的感觉。

And I think that's what we all hope to feel in anything that we're doing in our life, whether we're chasing a big dream or healing, we wanna feel like we are helpable.

那你后来是怎么学会寻求帮助的？

And how did you learn to ask for help?

我没有主动去学。

I didn't.

直到被迫无奈，我才开始接受帮助——那是我爸爸和我哥哥在奥运会后逼我去找人帮忙的。

I was I think I didn't until I was forced to because it was my dad and my brother that made me get that help after the Olympics.

不过说真的，如果是为了达成某个目标，我一向都挺擅长开口求助的。

So I think I mean, I was always like was always good about asking for help if it was about, like, achieving something.

对吧？

Right?

我在寻求改进建议时一点也不害羞。

I was very unshy about, like, advice about being better.

但要别人帮忙就难多了，因为这意味着你得承认自己遇到了困难。

But advice about needing help, that was harder because that means you have to admit that you're struggling.

当我被迫接受帮助后，才真正体会到帮助有多有效，也明白这根本没什么可羞耻的——就像锻炼肌肉一样，求助的能力也能慢慢变强。

And so I think once I was forced to get help and saw how helpful help can be and how, you know, unshameful it has to be, then, you know, like any other muscle, you can develop the muscle that asks for help, and it can become a stronger and stronger muscle.

说到底，我们不过是些努力体验生活、感受爱、不断成长、追求自我实现的普通人，没人该什么都知道。

And, you know, the the truth is we are just these, like, creatures that are trying to have experiences and feel love and and grow and, you know, self actualize, and we're not supposed to know everything.

我们身边其实就有现成的资源：一本书、一档播客、一些人。

And we have some resources that we can see right in front of us, a book, a podcast, people.

寻求帮助，其实只是聪明的做法。

But asking for help is just, like, smart.

对吧？

Right?

因为这意味着你只是在寻求一些你可能没有的信息、不同的视角，或者帮助所能带来的其他东西。

Because that means you're just asking for more information that you might not have or perspective or whatever else help can mean.

对。

Yeah.

如果你正在经历这些，或者身边有人正在经历，你希望听众此刻听到什么？

What do you want people who are listening to hear right now if they are sort of going through it themselves or standing next to someone who is?

如果你正站在一个正在挣扎的人身边，首先得提醒自己，目标是让那个你关心的人获得帮助，过得好。

I think if you're standing next to someone who is, well, you first have to remind yourself that the point is that the person you care about gets help and is okay.

然后问问自己，你在这个人生命中扮演的是什么角色？

And then ask yourself, who are you to that person?

因为有时候，你并不是那个能促使身边人寻求帮助的人。

Because sometimes we're not the ones that are gonna get the person next to us to get the help.

但你或许可以引荐那个真正能成为他们生命中关键声音的人。

But we might be able to tell the person who could be that voice in their life.

明白。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得关键是要清楚，你在这群人心里到底算什么角色。

And so I think it's just about knowing, like, who are you to these people?

我觉得，至少在我寻求帮助的时候，最难熬的就是那种羞耻感。

And knowing that the hardest thing, I think, when I was asking for help at least was, like, this feeling of shame.

所以尽量消除任何羞耻感，保持冷静、陪伴在旁，然后坚持下去。

And so just trying to reduce that there's any shame at all and just being present and calm as much as you can and then being consistent.

对吧？

Right?

有时候，得有人一直陪着你一百次，你才肯真正去看医生、开口求助，或者坦诚面对。

Because sometimes it takes someone being there a 100 times for you to, like, actually go to the doctor appointment or ask for help or be honest.

如果一个人正在经历困境，而你觉得自己已经知道结局了，那这时候你最需要帮助。

I think if someone is going through something themselves, if you think you know the future, that's when you really need help.

我当时就觉得，我的人生完蛋了，我确信无疑。

Because I was like I had all this certainty where I was like, oh, my life is ruined.

我真的很确定。

And I was like certain.

我当时就觉得，我已经到头了，以后只会越来越糟。

I was like, I've already peaked and everything will be worse from here forward.

我对这一点确信无疑。

I was certain about that.

但你不能有这种确定感。

And I think you can't have that certainty.

所以，一旦你对任何事情都确信不疑，那说明你状态不对。

And so if you are starting to have certainty about anything, then you are not well.

但这没关系。

And that is okay.

这说明你需要帮助，因为你已经没法可靠地照顾好自己了。

But it means you need you need help because you're not the best reliable resource for yourself.

对。

Mhmm.

而且，如果我说实话，我当时还有一种奇怪的冷漠，说不上是麻木，倒像是带着点好奇的冷漠。

Also, if I'm being really, really honest, I had this weird apathy that led to it was like a curious apathy.

是的。

Mhmm.

所以，如果你觉得事情不可能变好，那也没关系。

And so I think it's okay if you don't believe things can improve.

你不相信也没关系。

It's okay if you don't believe it.

即使没有信念，你依然可以付诸行动。

You can still commit to action without belief.

我觉得这一点很重要，因为我当时根本不相信自己会好起来，但我听懂了医生的话，还是坚持去做了那些事，哪怕心里一点信心都没有。

And I think that that's important to point out because I did not believe I would get better, but I I understood what my doctor was saying and I just committed to actions even without the belief.

对。

Yeah.

所以，我鼓励大家，哪怕觉得不可能，也还是要做出承诺。

And so I think to encourage people to make a commitment even if they don't believe that it's possible.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这句话。

I like that.

你的演讲以那句话收尾——今天过得很糟，但人生并不糟。

Your talk ends with that line, it's a bad day, not a bad life.

你谈到自己如何学会接纳生活中的美好、糟糕和一团糟，并找到了一种平衡。

You talk about how you've come to love the good, the bad, the crappy, and have learned to live with a kind of balance there.

能再聊聊吗？你是怎么在生活中践行‘三分法则’的？它如何帮你重新理解过去的经历，真正消化那些曾经的伤痛？

Tell us more about how embodying the rule of thirds in your life helped you understand your past experiences and really metabolize what you had been through previously.

在这场TED演讲的前一天，我得了严重的食物中毒。

I had really bad food poisoning the day before this TED talk.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是我人生中最糟糕的一次。

Like, the worst in my life.

我当时心想，天哪。

And I was like, oh my gosh.

我从来没卧床不起过。

I've never been bedridden.

这简直就是三分法则在身体上的真实体现。

And that's that's a very, like, physical manifestation of the rule of thirds.

但回头想想，我根本没时间把排练做到完美。

But looking back so I didn't get to, like, do the rehearsals perfectly.

该做的都没做完，我有点紧张，毕竟这是个大平台，观众也很多。

I didn't get to do all the and I was, like, a little nervous because this is, like, a big community and a platform.

现在回头看，我其实没多少时间去胡思乱想。

And in retrospect, I didn't have a lot of time to, like, overthink.

对。

Right.

所以我觉得我在台上基本上还是做自己，这感觉挺好的。

And therefore, I think I was mostly myself on stage, which was nice.

虽然我可能有那么一两个词说错了，但我还是保持了真实的自己。

And it wasn't per I think I tripped up on a word or two, but I was myself.

回头想想，那真是一个特别美好的时刻。

And, like, I think that there's that was a beautiful, like, looking back moment.

但从你整个人生的大格局来看，这确实是个很棒也很深刻的问题。

But I think what it looks like in the scope of the bigger picture of your life, it's a great question and it's a big question.

我不知道为什么，但就我本人来说，我想说说我的感受。

I don't know why, but my life if I'm I'm gonna just speak for me.

对吧？

Right?

我一直觉得，我人生该做什么、时间该怎么花，不一定非得走一条固定路线。

I have always felt like what I need to do with my life and my time is not always on a path.

也不总是别人建议我该去走的那条路。

And it's not always what people would prescribe to me, like, what I should do.

我一直都知道自己该往哪个方向走，但走的是前人没走过的路，有时候感觉就像野性难驯。

I've always known sort of where I need to be moving, but moving in the direction that has never been done before, like, the way I am is it feels feral sometimes.

这很难，因为得像在灌木丛里开路，一边走一边清理障碍。

That is hard because it means that I'm kind of going through brush and, like, clearing it as I go.

我不确定未来会怎样，但心里有个特别坚定的指南针在指引我。

I don't know where things are going, but I'm following, like, a really solid compass in my heart.

所以回头看时，三分法则特别适合形容我生命中那些开创前人未走之路的时刻。

And so when I look back, the rule of thirds is really applicable to, like, a lot of the times in my life when I've been paving a path that hasn't been done before.

过程确实不容易，但我从不后悔，因为现在回头看，这一切都显得水到渠成。

And it does feel hard, but I I I'm glad I did it because because now it feels inevitable.

但当时，那些坚持做真实自己的关键节点，确实会让人感受到难以言喻的挣扎。

But at the time, some of those intersection points where you're doing what's true to you can be really they can feel you can feel sensations that are hard.

不过如果你用这个准则回头看，就会发现，那不过是整体比例中的一部分。

But if you have this rule and you look back, you're like, oh, that was, a part of the ratio overall.

我想说的只是，走出自己的路，从来都不是一件轻松的事。

I guess I'm just trying to say that it's not always easy paving your own path.

但如果你能从整体上看，看到它鲜活完整的样子，从远处回望，就会觉得挺好的。

But if you can see it as, like, a big vibrant whole, if you can see the wholeness of it, it can feel good in a zoomed out sense.

对。

Mhmm.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know?

明白了。

Alright.

你的演讲围绕着一个时刻展开，那时你的教练恰好在你需要的时候给了你最恰当的指引。

Your talk is built around a moment when your coach gave you exactly the right thing at the moment you needed it.

现在你做了一个新播客，叫《导师自助餐》，你请人们聊聊他们的导师，以及这些导师如何塑造了他们。

And now you have a new podcast called Mentor Buffet, where you ask people to talk about their mentors, how they were shaped by those mentors.

在你看来，‘导师’这个词到底意味着什么？

What does the word mentor actually mean to you?

你又是如何在自己的生活中实践导师关系的？

And how do you approach mentorship in your own life?

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

我特别喜欢这个词，因为一听到它，我就想：天啊，真希望这种事也能发生在我身上。

I love this word because it feels like when you learn it, you're like, ugh, I hope that happens to me.

我希望我能遇到一个。

I hope I get one.

就像我希望能看到流星一样。

Like, I hope I see a shooting star.

但对我来说，如果我得不到这样一个关键的导师，那我可以选择把世界看成一个资源匮乏的地方，或者我也可以想：好吧。

But for me, it was like, man, if I'm not gonna have this one keystone mentor, I can either see the world as this place of scarcity or I can be like, okay.

我没有那样一个东西。

I don't have this one thing.

我没有妈妈，但我还能拥有其他所有东西。

I don't have a mom, but I can have everything else.

所以我特别坦率地去请教别人，向朋友、‘大姐姐’项目求助，问一些比如‘月经是怎么回事’这类问题，反正什么都问。

And so I was really shameless about asking for advice and leaning on Friends Big Sisters for what's a period and like like, I like, everything, you know?

我觉得这个节目对我来说，是想让这个词变得有回应、有互动，让人能主动去追寻它。

And I think the show for me is about giving some reciprocity to the word where you can reach for it.

对吧？

Right?

真正的指导时刻，是你自己有所领悟的时刻，而不是别人硬要教你的时候。

If and a moment of mentorship is a moment where you learn, not a moment where someone tried to teach you.

因为如果别人只是在教你，那你其实什么都没学到。我的意思是，他们可能在试图指导你，但你真的被指导到了吗？

Because if they try to teach you, you didn't learn anything, I don't really know I mean, that's a moment where they're trying to mentor you, but are you mentored?

没错。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

所以我觉得这些对话让我开始思考：人们到底是怎么学习的？他们从谁那儿学到的？哪怕只是旅行时远远瞥见一个人，或者小学三年级每天见到的老师，又或者是保姆、最好的朋友、电影导演，甚至某个播客主持人。

Like, did you and so I think what these conversations have opened up is just me learning how do people learn, who did they learn from, even if it was like a moment observing someone from afar one time on a vacation or their third grade teacher that they observed every single day or a babysitter or a best friend or a director in a movie or a podcast.

所以我希望这个节目能拓宽大家对指导的理解，也让每个人能从中汲取一点智慧，毕竟我们不可能无处不在。

And so I want this show to expand how people think about mentorship and also to get little bits of wisdom themselves because we can't all be everywhere all the time.