E37 - 贾斯汀·海宁

我不知道你是否也同意这一点，但我自己办了一个学院，每天都参与其中。

I don't know if you would agree also with that or not, but I also I have my academy, I'm involved into this every day.

但这很容易变成一种指责父母很难相处的方式。

But it becomes also an easy way to say how parents are difficult.

所以，父母是一方面，专家和教练是另一方面。

So parents in one way and experts and coaches in another.

我认为这行不通，因为当孩子还小的时候，父母是他们的监护人，而专家只是专家，但你必须以某种方式与他们合作。

This, I believe, cannot work because parents, it's their kid when they are young and experts, it's experts, but you need in a certain way to work

在理想的世界里，父亲承担起抚养孩子的责任，而教练则提供一个网球伙伴。

Well, in ideal world, the father does the job of the father, which is to raise the human, and coach brings a tennis partner.

如果这两者朝着同一个方向努力，我就想在一方面培养孩子的为人，另一方面则提升技术与战术层面。

If those two work in the same direction, I want to grow the human side on the other, like the technical tactical part.

那就是

That's the

理念。

idea.

魔法就发生在这里。

That's where the magic happens.

这就是世界上的理念。

That's the idea on world.

知道这并不太开放。

Know it's not very open.

是的。

Yeah.

不知道你是否同意，但从外部来看，似乎有很多父母在投射他们的梦想，这正变得越来越...

Don't know if you agree, but from the outside a bit, what it looks is that there's a lot of parents who are kind of projecting the dream That's becoming an

当然。

for sure.

然后事情变得如此混乱，因为现在看起来这已经不是关于孩子的幸福或人的成长，而是关于他们现在是否成功。

And then like things get like so mixed now because it looks like it's not about the kid happiness or human growth, but about them having success now.

我完全同意这一点。

I completely agree on that.

另一方面，我认为有时也需要时间，也许教练或网球界的人士需要去引导家长，与他们站在一起，但我们无法对所有家长都这样做，因为有些家长是根本无法沟通的。

In the other hand, I believe that it takes time sometimes also, maybe for coaches or for people in the tennis world to also guide also parents and to be also by the so we cannot do that with all parents because with some parents it's impossible to do.

但对一些家长来说，我认为仍然可以交谈、讨论和引导。

But with some parents, it's still, I think, possible to talk, to discuss, to guide.

这需要大量的精力。

That takes a lot of energy.

这毫无疑问。

That's for sure.

这大概是我们最耗费精力的事情。

That's what takes us probably the most energy.

但没错，这是一种团队精神。

But, yeah, it's a team spirit.

这个想法并不容易，但我始终抱有信念。

And the idea was not that easy, but I keep belief.

但也许我过于相信了，不过我们仍然可以在这方面多做些努力，试图以设计的方式去应对，但在某些情况下，你真的无能为力。

But maybe I believe too much, but that still we can do more on that to try to be also by design and to get in some situations, you cannot do anything.

这非常令人难过，因为我们见过多少孩子，多少青少年

That's very sad because how many kids we have seen or how many teenagers

我们有破碎的孩子。

Broken we have kids.

是的。

Yeah.

破碎的孩子。

Broken kids.

这当然是一个灾难。

And that's a disaster, of course.

如今，学院在这里扮演着非常重要的角色，因为如果越来越多的孩子从优秀的学院中取得成功的职业生涯，更多的父母就会愿意放手，信任这个过程。

Academies now have a very important role here, because if more and more kids have successful careers coming from good academies, more parents will be happy to let go of the kids and to trust the process.

所有参与体育的人，以及我们如何赋予这项工作价值，这在孩子很小的时候就开始了，我们必须在他们年幼时给予他们正确的教育。

All people involved in sport, but also how we give value also to the job of and it starts very early with kids that the education we have to give them when they are very young.

在六七岁时，当我们把孩子带到网球场上时，我们需要以身作则。在那个年龄，给予他们正确的教育至关重要。

At six, seven years old, when we get the kids on tennis court, you need to be examples And at that age, it's very important that we give them the good education.

如果我们在这里给他们更多的教育，也许父母在体育方面也能感到：好吧，我可以信任他们。

If we give them more education there, maybe the parents can also on the sports part, maybe they can feel, okay, I can trust them.

也许吧，也许吧，因为这非常情感化，他们可以稍微保持一点距离。

Maybe, maybe, because this is very emotional, they can take a bit of distance.

没有保证。

There is no guarantee.

我知道现实也是如此，但是

I know that reality also, but

是的。

Yeah.

我想，父母和父母也不一样，对吧？

I guess there's parents and parents, no?

因为当你看到那些自己从没打过网球的父母，却觉得自己懂得如何教孩子打网球，对吧？

Because also when you see these parents who never played tennis and they feel that they know how to teach someone to play tennis, no?

这就像我，我从小每天都打网球，每天三小时。

It's a bit like me, I played tennis all my life as a kid, every day, three hours.

你当时30岁，那是你的职业，但你

Was 30 I profession you have, but you

有很多事情。

have lot things.

网球，但我从来不是特别擅长。

Tennis, but I was never very good.

有时候有人问我，哦，比如，你教卡拉吗？

And sometimes sometimes people ask me, oh, like, do you coach Kara?

我怎么能教卡拉呢？

Like, how can I coach Kara?

你知道吗？

You know?

我根本不会打网球，但我每天都打。

Like, I I didn't know how to play tennis, and it's still I played every day.

是啊。

Yeah.

那我怎么能相信，我在网球方面有什么可以教她的呢？

So how can I, like, believe that I have something to teach her, you in in tennis?

有时候你会看到那些连球拍都不会拿的父母。

And sometimes you see these parents who, like, don't even know how to hold a racket.

这还涉及到我如何与情绪保持距离，以及我如何能

It's a question of also how I keep distance from the emotions and how I can

是的，没错。

Also, yeah.

明确我的角色。

Pierce my role.

这并不容易，因为当情绪涌现时，我们讨论过很多关于情绪的事，情绪是我们经历中非常重要的一部分。

It's not easy because when the emotions take we we discussed a lot about emotions, and emotions is big part of what we go through.

是的。

And Yeah.

要处理这些并不容易。

And it's not easy to to deal with that.

但在所有这些如何围绕球员的方面上，我认为关键在于，作为球员身边的人，我的角色究竟是什么，以及我该如何保持恰当的距离。

But in in all these aspects on how we can be around the player, I think it's really what is, you know, as person around the player, but the person, what is my role and how I can take how I can keep the right distance actually.

而且我不会去承担那种角色或那种角色。

And how I can I'm not gonna take that role or that role.

对父母来说不容易，但对球员周围的其他人，尤其是体育领域的专业人士来说，这也并不总是容易做到的。

For parents, it's not easy, but sometimes for people, for also for the people around the player on more on the sports part and the expert, that's not always easy need.

我认为，当每个角色都清晰明确时，这种模式也会更有效。

I think it works also when everything when every role is is clear.

这很重要。

That's important.

是的。

Yeah.

而且还有

And also

球员在场上已经承受了太多情绪，面对自己的目标、期望、输赢，你需要一个稳定、情绪平稳的环境。

the player goes through so much emotion already on court and with his goal, with his own expectation, with wins and loss, you need a stable environment with stable emotions from everyone.

有时候，你的教练会给你带来更多情绪，因为他显然非常投入，但他承受的压力比父母小，父母可能会更焦虑，或者在他赢了时过度兴奋，但其实未必有太多值得高兴的理由。

And sometimes your coach will be able to bring you more emotions because obviously he's very involved, but he has less stress than his parents who will be maybe more anxious or super happy when he says at the end, maybe not much to be happy of.

孩子和球员更需要稳定和安全感。

And kids and the player needs stability security is better.

够了。

Enough.

够了。

Enough.

是的。

Yeah.

比如，好吧，你今天赢了，很棒，一切都很好，但你也输了。

And like, okay, you won today, It's awesome and everything, but you lost.

这并不是什么大不了的戏剧性事件，嗯。

It's not like a drama or Yeah.

我重视理查德。

I I value Richard.

现在他提到，尽管他是一位出色的教练和球员，但他觉得自己无法执教自己的孩子，因为他认为自己会缺乏客观性。

Now he was sharing that he doesn't see himself being able to coach his kid, even though he was an amazing coach, an amazing player, because he thinks he will lack objectivity.

他说，你知道吗，当我看到他打球时，我投入了太多情感，根本无法保持客观，因此我无法成为一个好教练来指导我的儿子。

He's like, you know, I have, I have so many emotions involved when I see him playing that I cannot be objective, you know, and therefore I cannot be a good coach to my son.

这是一个非常有趣的问题。

It's a very interesting question.

我儿子呢，他这个年龄打网球已经很不错了，已经打了三年网球。

My son is such I mean, plays tennis for his age and playing tennis for three years.

他非常喜欢这项运动。

He he loves it.

他每天都去学院。

He comes to the academy.

学院就像是他们的第二个家。

Academy is the second their second home.

我还有一个女儿，她12岁。

I have my my daughter, she's 12.

她几乎已经在做公关工作了。

She's doing almost public relations already.

这太有趣了。

It's so funny.

这确实是他们的第二个家，所以他们很喜欢在这里玩。

It's really the the second home, so they they like to play.

他们两个都喜欢，但我儿子更喜欢一些。

And and both of them, but my son a little bit more.

两年前，我试着给他一些建议。

And two years ago, I tried to give him an advice.

那时他六岁。

He was six.

于是我跟他说，别把头发弄到额头上，他说：妈妈，这太长了。

So but I said, on your forehead, he said, mom, it's way too long.

你停下了。

You stopped.

你把一切都忘了。

You forgot about everything.

所以我明白了，你的地方。

So I understood understood that you- Your place.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

你在你家。

You at your place.

他跟我说，我的教练是纪尧姆。

And he said to me, my coach is Guillaume.

所以我已经明白了第一件事。

And so I understood the first thing already.

而且现在他开始参加更多的比赛了。

And also now he's playing, he starts to play more competitions.

现在我明白了我们之前讨论的所有关于作为母亲的情感的事情。

And I understand now about all we talking about, about the emotions as a mom.

当然，我对网球了解很多，也想分享，但我不会以正确的方式分享，因为我作为一个母亲有情感，而且我也觉得我的网球之路非常艰难。

Because of course, I know a lot of things about tennis and I want to share, but I'm not going to share it the right way because I have my emotions of a mom and I see also my tennis is so hard.

你在球场上是孤身一人，我们都明白这一点。

You are alone on the court and we all know that.

你独自一人，即使有支持，你在球场上依然非常、非常孤单。

You are alone and you have to find Even if you have the support, you are still very, very by yourself on the court.

当你看到你那个年龄段的孩子时，你需要保持距离，告诉自己：好吧，他能独自面对、找到解决方案，这对他来说很棒，我们可以支持，但要保持我之前说的那段距离。

When you see your kid of that age, you need to take the distance to say, okay, this is amazing for him that he's gonna have to be by himself, find the solutions we can support, but from our with the distance I was talking about.

但我能感觉到这并不容易，所以我不想再过多介入他的事情。

But I can feel that's not easy, so I don't want to get involved anymore into his

对于你来说，作为一名前职业球员、顶尖选手，这都不容易，更不用说那些不是网球运动员的人了。

If for you, as a former pro player, one of the best, it's not easy for someone who is not a tennis player.

也许一个好的建议是，尽量远离网球。

Maybe the good advice is, like, try to stay as far as you can from the tennis.

完全正确。

Completely.

完全正确。

Completely.

这对我来说是一次很棒的经历，我现在更好地理解了这种情况，以及作为父母有多艰难。

So that's an amazing experience for me, I understand much better the situation now and how hard it is for parents.

这就是我们如何建立这种适当的距离，但这是一种挑战。

So this is how we can build that good distance, but it's a challenge.

这是一个巨大的挑战。

It's a big challenge.

你希望他成为一名主力球员吗？

Would you like him to be a protagonist player or?

我不希望他成为主力球员，但我也不会说我不希望。

I don't want him to be a protagonist player, but I wouldn't say I don't want

如果这成为他的梦想呢？

him If to it becomes his dream?

是的。

Yeah.

这种情况并不常见，因为我总是对我的孩子们说，你们要做你们热爱的事情。

It doesn't happen very often first because I always say my kids, you have to do what you love to do.

再过几周，他就将开始踢足球。

Now he's going to start football in a few weeks.

我原本希望他从事另一项运动。

Wanted him to do another sport.

是足球。

It's football.

本来也可以是别的运动，但他选择了足球，因为和她在一起对他来说很重要。

It could be something else, but he chose football to be with It was important for him to be with her.

我希望他，还有我的女儿，都去尝试不同的事情，我经常对他们说，不必打网球，因为我曾经打过网球。

And I want him to do, and my daughter also to do different things, I often say to them, don't have to play tennis because I have been playing tennis.

我丈夫也说，是的。

And and my husband says, yeah.

但你知道，你不能低估青训营。

But you you know, you don't underestimate the academy.

他们每天都能看到你，看到所有孩子在打球，于是也想参与。

They see you there every day and they see all the kids playing and they want to play.

但最终，我相信我们作为父母，只是尽力做到最好。

But at the end, I'm sure that I mean, we try because as parents, we just understand that we do the best we can.

我们努力向他们展示不同的可能性，我相信运动能带来很多东西，对孩子们的成长有巨大影响。

And we try to show them different I mean, I believe that sport brings like, other other things, but sport brings so many things to our our kids and how they can grow up to to sports.

所以这种情况并不常见。

So doesn't happen very often.

如果真的发生，我必须保持适当的距离。

If if it's the case, will have to take the I will have to try to take the right distance.

如果不是这种情况，我的意思是，有

And if not the case, I mean, there

这必须是一个自然的过程，或者类似的东西。

It has to be a natural process or whatever.

我们本应成为某方面的冠军。

We we are supposed to be champions in something.

不是吗？

No?

也许不是在那种情况下，但我们本应以不同的方式展现我们的品质，在众多可能性中脱颖而出。

Not maybe under the but we are supposed to be I mean, to to express our qualities in different kind of aspects and to be unique in so many different possibilities.

所以我们选择了这样一种生活，也没关系。

So we chose a life that's okay.

是的。

Yeah.

这很艰难。

It's tough.

压力很大。

It's a lot of pressure.

我们处在聚光灯下。

We are under the lights.

有时候，远离这一切，你反而能做出惊人的事情，并且感到非常快乐。

Sometimes you can do amazing stuff being away from that and and be so happy.

就像我前几天跟你说的，打完网球后，生活非常好。

As I I said to you the other day, life is very good after tennis.

生活是

Life is

非常好非常好。

very, very good.

即使我们仍然深深投入其中，但我们可以，我的意思是，我可以以许多不同的方式运用我们的经验，不再像以前那样身处聚光灯下，而是像普通生活那样感到快乐吗？

Even if we remain very much into it, but we can, I mean, I can use our experience in in so many different ways and not be under the lights like like we have been and be so happy like in a normal life?

我现在真的很珍惜在家的日子，只是过着简单的生活。

I really appreciate now, you know, being at home and and just live with simple things.

是的。

Yeah.

美好的家庭生活。

Good family life.

最终，你并不需要那么多东西就能快乐。回到压力这个问题，你很早就取得了成功。

You don't need that much at the end to be happy and Going back to this pressure and stuff, you had success quite early.

你当时几乎还是个青少年。

You were still a teenager almost.

在经历了这么多年的乐趣之后，当你终于成功时，感觉如何？

How was it for you when after all these years of fun and you finally make it?

是的。

Yeah.

但我当时就在我想去的地方。

But I was where I wanted to be.

所以我与自己的梦想紧密相连，我们确实致力于实现愿景和目标。

So I was connected to, it was my dream and then we really work on a vision and the goals.

这很神奇，因为现在看到学院里的青少年，或者当我想到，哇，他们不知道未来会怎样。

And it's amazing because when now see the teenagers at the academy or when I think, wow, they don't know what's to expect.

但实际上，这很好。

And that's good, actually.

是吗？

Yeah?

因为当你到了那个年纪，通常不会问自己这样的问题。

Because when you're at that age, normally you don't ask that question to yourself.

你只是看到眼前的东西。

You just see what's in front of you.

当我回望过去，真正让我热爱的是整个过程。

And when I look back, it's this that I really I really love, actually, the the the whole process.

我成为了世界第一。

I became number one.

我赢得了大满贯。

I won Grand Slams.

谈论这些很容易，因为我确实实现了梦想，但并非一切都很顺利。

It's easy to to talk about that because I really realize my dreams, but not everything has been easy.

这毫无疑问。

That's for sure.

但当我踏上巡回赛并开始赢球时，当然承受了巨大的压力，应对这一切是一场非凡的挑战。

But when I arrived on tour and I started to win, of course, it was a lot of pressure and it's been an amazing challenge to deal with that.

事实上，我发现身边的人并不多，这对我而言是好事。

What I found, actually, I didn't have so many people around me and that was good for me.

不需要应付太多人。

Not so many people to deal with.

我让经纪人头疼不已，因为他们总想让我做很多事情。

I've been a nightmare of the agents because they were asking me to do so many things.

对我来说，优先事项一直是——我并不说这很容易，也并非一路顺遂，但最终我们始终在思考：什么才是照顾好自己的关键？你如何学会说不？

And for me, priority was and I don't say it's easy and that it has been easy, but at the end, we were always thinking, what is the priorities to take care of myself in a And certain how you understand to say, how you learn how to say no.

是的。

Yeah.

不，我不会做这件事。

No, I'm not gonna do this.

所以，不，我不会做那件事。

So no, I'm not gonna do that.

卡洛斯帮了我很多，因为他对这些事情非常明确：我们到底想做什么？

And Carlos helped me a lot because he was really clear with all that stuff that what do we want to do?

我们想成为什么样的人？

Who do we want to be?

你知道的？

You know?

至于网球，我的意思是，对我们来说，目标比赚钱更重要，这是过程的一部分。

And tennis, I mean, really, and the goals was for us more important than making more money, and it was part of the process.

但最终，你为什么要设定这些优先级？

But at the end, why do you put your priorities?

这个问题一直萦绕在我们心头。

That questions was all the time into our mind.

而且，我并不是说这一切很自然就做到了。

And again, I don't say it was like this so natural.

不。

No.

当然

Of

当然。

course.

而且我也没有沉迷于社交媒体。

And also with the I didn't live with the social media.

我与媒体打交道，但没有沉迷于社交媒体，我非常开心。

I live with the press, but I didn't live with the social I'm very happy.

我以另一种方式打球，你

I played on another very You're

没错过

not missing

吗？

it?

是的。

Yeah.

真的很开心，因为这太疯狂了。

Really happy because this is this is crazy.

这是

This is

另一个故事。

another story.

是的，没错。

That's an yeah.

这很艰难。

This is tough.

但压力来自那里，当然，压力也来自期望。

But the pressure comes from there, but the pressure was coming, of course, with from the expectation.

压力无处不在。

It's coming from everywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

当你走上球场，面对这15000名观众时，你希望让他们开心，嗯。

When you walk on the court and you have these 15,000 people, you want to make them happy Yeah.

某种程度上是这样。

In a certain way.

你希望给予。

You want to give.

你希望如此，于是我开始尝试各种方法，以学会与这种压力共处。

You want to so I started to work on different things to be able to live with that.

那是其中一部分，它让我更专注于自己的世界。

It was part of that, and it was more putting me in my bubble.

我与很多事情拉开了距离。

I took a lot of distance with a lot of things.

人们说：‘贾斯汀，她好冷漠。’

People were saying, Ah, Justine, she's cold.

我当时完全认为这样对我有好处。

I completely assumed that it was good for me at that time.

我实际上无法应付那种社交生活，对每个人都和善、把时间分给每个人，这根本不可能。

I couldn't deal actually with that social life, being nice to everyone and giving my time to everyone, and that was not possible.

有些人不认同我这样做，但最终，我在这里是为了打网球。

And some people didn't like it for me, but at the end, I was there to To do tennis.

为了赢球，为了打网球，为了完成工作。

To win and do tennis and to do the job.

当我说到‘完成工作’时，我是从积极的角度来看的。

And when I say to do the job, I see it in a positive way.

这并不是一种煎熬。

It's not suffering.

这正是我想要的状态。

This is where I want it to be.

我总是与媒体做好我的工作。

And I always did my job with the press.

我的承诺一直都在履行。

I mean, my commitments always did it.

但没错。

But Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

为了我的经纪人。

For my agents.

不。

No.

我不会去中国参加展览。

I'm not gonna travel to to China to do the exhibition.

不。

No.

我不会去做这个或那个。

I'm not gonna do this or do that.

而且卡洛斯真的教我如何对这些说不。

And And Carlos really teach me on how to say no to this.

他还告诉我，当你读到一篇新闻报道，无论是正面还是负面的，你都会输掉一局。

Also he was telling me when you read an article in the press, positive or negative, you lose a set.

这是数学问题，但他是对的。

It was mathematics, but he was right.

于是我开始不再阅读新闻，因为如果是一篇好文章，它能给我带来什么好处呢？

And I started to stop reading the press because if it's good, what does it give to me if it's a good article?

如果是坏消息，那肯定不会有什么好处。

And if it's bad, that's for sure.

它并不能帮助我前进。

Doesn't help me to move forward.

但要实践这一点并不容易。

But it wasn't easy to apply this.

但最终，当我回望时，我觉得我们很幸运。

But at the end, when I look back and say, we have been lucky.

可以做到的。

Could do that.

但最终，在我职业生涯末期，所有的那种牺牲——我的个人生活和家庭生活，因为我25岁就退役了。

But at the end, the pressure also, at the end of my career I mean, all the certain kind of sacrifices, my personal life and my family life, because I stopped tennis first at 25.

太年轻了。

Super young.

非常年轻。

Very young.

所以某种程度上，压力确实存在，但那不是来自媒体或外界期望的压力。

So the pressure in a certain way was there, but it wasn't the pressure from the press or from the expectations.

更多是来自我个人的视角。

It was more from my personal perspective.

我放下了许多事情，因为现在我不想把精力花在那些上面，我有我的职业生涯；但在某个时刻，你的个人生活会浮现出来，你希望在那里，去澄清一些事情，给予家庭能量，重新建立联系，理解并继续前行。

While I did put away so many things that I don't wanna put energy because it's too much now and I have my career, but at a certain time, your personal life come you know, you want to be there also to to to clarify certain things and to give energy also to the family and to reconnect and to understand and to move forward.

对我来说，这真的很重要。

For me, it was really important.

然后我试图重返网球。

Then I tried to come back to to tennis.

我有伤病等各种问题，但压力无处不在，你的环境可以提供帮助。

I had the injuries and everything, but pressure is everywhere all the time and the environment, your environment can help.

当然，那种稳定性。

Of course, that stability.

同时也要学会说不，但这很艰难，尤其是在当下，我认为学会说不、学会选择变得更加困难了。

And also understand to say no, but it's tough in the and and these days, I think learning to say no and to choose until it's even more difficult now.

你需要有一个好的团队，他们能帮助你安心地做出决定。

Well, you need to have a good team, you know, that helps you, like, be in peace with your decisions.

你知道吗？

You know?

比如，如果你的经纪人总让你在说不的时候感到内疚，最后就会变得很复杂。

Like, and you have because if you have agents or that make you feel guilty every time you say no, at the end, it's complicated.

不。

No.

拥有一支朝着同一方向努力的团队是最重要的事情。

And to have, like, a team that works everyone in the same direction is the most important thing.

了解这个人和球员的个性。

And understand the personality of the of the person and of the player.

你知道吗？

You know?

因为最终，球员才是核心。

Because at the end, the player is the more is the center.

是你自己，如果球员你，你知道，如果你内心平和，我是说，作为一个人，是的。

It's you you if the player is you know, if you are in peace, I mean, in terms of human being Yeah.

那么，是的，你才能发挥出最佳水平。

Then, yeah, then then you can perform.

如果你不是，因为你觉得自己做出的决定没有让身边的人开心，那就是另一种情况了。

If you're not because you feel that you're not taking the right decisions to make people maybe around you happy, that's a difference.

是的。

Yeah.

你的团队需要明白，最终他们的职责是为球员服务。

Your team needs to understand that at the end, they are there to serve the player in a way.

这听起来可能有点奇怪，但事实就是这样。

Maybe it sounds a bit strange, but that's how it is.

你就像团队一样，是的，是

You are like the team Yeah, is

团队以及周围所有的人，包括家人，都需要为球员齐心协力。

the team and all the people around and the family and everything, it's like everyone needs to work together for the player.

但就连我那些非常亲近的家人，我和我父亲的姐妹们，也就是我的姨妈们，关系也很亲密。

But even my part of the family that I was really close to, I'm very close to my father's sisters, my aunts, close from them.

当我妈妈去世时，是她们照顾了我。

When my mom passed away, they took care of me.

而今天，我的意思是，这太棒了。

And today we I mean, it's amazing.

我们每天都会互相交流。

We we talk to each other every day.

但当我打球的时候，我也向他们解释过，我其实没有太多时间能和你们分享，而且在我赢得法网时，他们就在现场，我们能稍微共度一下时光。

But when I was playing, I was explaining to them also, I don't have too much time actually to to share with you and to and they were here at Roland Garros when I won, and we could share a bit.

但当我环游世界参赛时，我一直在解释：我会尽我所能，但在如今对家庭的投入上，我已经做不到更好了。

But when I was traveling all over the world, I was trying to explain, well, I try to do my best, but I cannot do better than this in terms of of my family investment today.

能够沟通并表达我们的需求和感受，这一点也很重要。

It's important also to be able to communicate and to say what we need, to say what we feel.

这非常重要，但并不总是容易做到。

That's very important and not always easy.

在你的职业生涯中，你说你一直非常专注于网球和其他事情。

During your career, you say you were very focused on your tennis and everything.

你是如何尝试平衡或在精神上休息的呢？

How did you try to balance or like rest mentally and?

当我没有训练时，我非常安静，但当我退役后，你知道，这对每个人来说都差不多。

I was really quiet when I wasn't practicing training, but when I stopped tennis, you know, it's but it's a bit the same for everyone.

但对我来说，我那时完全沉浸在自己的世界里。

But for me, I was really so much in my bubble.

当我突然停止打网球时，那种结构就不复存在了，你会进入一个完全不同的世界。

When I stopped tennis from one day to another, then the structure is not there anymore, and and you go through a different world.

对我来说，我真的以为网球世界就是整个世界，你知道吗？十五年后，我很快明白了。我非常幸运，因为我遇到了我的第二任丈夫，也就是我孩子们的父亲，他是你能遇到的最普通的人。

For me, I I really felt I thought the world I mean, I I thought tennis world was the world, you know, and then then fifteen years later, but soon I understand, and I've been very lucky because I I met my my second husband, my actual husband, the father of my kids, and that's the most normal person you can you can meet.

你知道吗？

You know?

然后我们开始真正地、正常地生活。

And then we started to live really, I mean, normally.

这在我从网球生涯过渡到退役生活的过程中帮助了我很多。

So that helped me a lot in my transition to my life after after after tennis.

但在我职业生涯期间，我确实非常安静。

But during my career, didn't I was really quiet.

实际上，我不需要太多东西就能感到平衡。

I didn't need much actually to feel in balance.

从某种意义上说，现在回看，那时并不平衡。

In a certain way, when I look back now, it wasn't balanced.

但当时，我觉得自己在那种我选择的生活里是平衡的。

But at that time, I felt I was in balance in that life I choose at that time.

所以现在我乐于与人见面、交谈，并不觉得困难。

So it wasn't so hard for me to now I like to meet people, to talk.

我从小就是个很好奇的人，但在我的职业生涯中。

I'm very curious person since I was a kid, but into my career.

是的。

Yeah.

那时我的优先事项是那个封闭的世界：照顾好自己，吃什么、怎么睡。

It was into, you know, that that bubble priority, taking care of myself, how I eat, how I sleep.

只要我做了不对的事，我就会在能量和各方面感受到。

As soon as, you know, I wasn't wasn't doing the right thing, I felt it in terms of energy and everything.

但那很容易。

But it was easy.

我得同意。

I I have to agree.

我的意思是，离开家对我来说并不太难，因为我感觉，好吧，今天就是这样，这正是我想做的。

It was I mean, to say it wasn't too difficult for me to be away from home or to because I felt, okay, it's like this today, that's what I want to do.

这就是我想待的地方。

That's where I want to be.

我知道这对每个人来说都不一样，我也明白，尤其是今年，这非常好。

So I know it's not the same for everyone, and I know that and especially this year, and that's very good.

我们更多地讨论我是如何平衡这一切的。

We talk more about how I balance this.

也许当我回望时，如果我能更平衡地处理某些事情，我就能打更久。

And maybe when I look back, if I try to balance more certain things, I could play longer.

也许这是一种可能性。

Maybe that's a possibility.

但身体上，我也知道，由于我个子不高，起初也不够强壮，所以我还得在体能上努力。

But physically also I knew with the fact that I'm not so tall and at the beginning not so strong, I had also to work physically.

我去美国与帕特·德·蒂贝里亚斯合作，高强度地训练了两三年。

I went to The States working with Pate de Tiberias, so strong for two, three years.

那时我也知道，也许我即将实现目标，但我也清楚自己对身体要求太高，这可能会损害我的长期职业生涯。

I knew also at that time, okay, now maybe I'm going to touch my goals, but I knew in a certain way I ask a lot to my body and maybe this is gonna compromise a long, long career.

年轻时，我记得我梦想着能打到30岁。

When I was younger, I wanted I remember I was dreaming I want to play until 30 years old.

30岁，那是二十年前，30岁已经很不错了。

30 at that twenty years ago, at 30, it was good.

当妈妈这件事，也在我们脑海中，完全是另一回事。

Was yeah, the question of being mom also, it's in our heads and completely different.

即使在今天，当球员们带着孩子巡回参赛，这对那些相信自己并能做到的人而言，我认为这太棒了。

And even these days, even if players are coming, being mom on the tour, that's fantastic for those who believe and who are able to do it, I think it's fantastic.

但有时候，你已经要照顾好自己，这已经很难了。

But sometimes you already handle yourself, it's hard.

如果你还要照顾一个婴儿，我真的不知道你怎么能做到。

If you have to handle a little baby, it's like, I don't know how you could do it.

是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah.

对我来说，我觉得我永远做不到，但我很敬佩那些妈妈们，确实挺不容易的。

For me, I think I could never do that, but I admire the moms that, yeah, it's probably a little bit tough.

当我全身心投入时，其实并没有吃太多苦。

For me, when I was into it, didn't suffer too much actually.

因为这终究是你最终的梦想。

Because it was your ultimate dream at the end.

我知道你从小就开始梦想着这一天。

I know you were dreaming about it since you were a kid.

所以，当你自己的目标就是达到那里时，当你最终进入职业网球巡回赛时，这可能并不是你的梦想。

So I guess that when it's your own personal goal to be there, it's easy that maybe when you end up being in the professional tennis tour, it was maybe not your dream.

然后你就需要找到平衡。

And then you're like, need that balance.

这仅仅是一份工作

It's just a job for

我如此热爱的，正是我曾经热爱的，至今依然深爱的。

what I loved so much, was what I loved so much, still what I love so much.

但巡回赛期间，我并不喜欢它，倒也不是不好，只是我不在那里为了与人交往，我只有一个真正的好朋友在巡回赛上。

But being on the tour, I didn't It's not I didn't like it, it was bad, but I wasn't there to be with people and to I had only one really good friend on the tour.

她是娜塔莉·德希。

It's Natalie Deschis.

我们真的可以分享很多事情。

Was really we could share things.

我们可以在会议间隙共度一些时光。

We could spend some moments for the rest in the conferences.

我不在那里。

It's I'm not there.

也许对我来说这显得有点冷漠，因为现在人人都说他们和每个人都是朋友，但我一秒都不相信，但如今这个世界，我们确实需要对每个人都保持友好。

Maybe it's a bit it seems a bit cold for me because now these days, everyone says that he's friends for his I don't believe a single second on this, but it's this world also today that we need to be good with everyone.

我认为这不可能。

I don't think it's possible.

对我来说，那并不是我真正追求的东西。

And for me, it wasn't really what I was searching for.

我去那里是为了打网球。

I was there to play tennis.

所以对我来说回来很容易。

So was easy for me to come back.

我做着我的工作，然后回到我自己的小世界。

I was doing my job and then to come back to my my small bubble

所有这一切。

all and all of it.

还有我和卡洛斯的关系，我的意思是，我们可以分享很多东西。

Also my my relation with Carlos was I mean, was we could share so many things.

我们就是这样度过那些时刻的。

We we did like these moments.

那些时刻很安静。

They were quiet.

晚上去一家不错的餐厅，笑谈着与网球和巡回赛无关的其他事情。

Good restaurant in the evening and and laughing about so other things than tennis and about the tour.

而这些对我来说已经足够了。

And and just there was enough actually for for me.

所以，是的。

So Yeah.

每个人都不一样。

Different for everyone.

你回来的时候，是的。

When you came back Yeah.

你是像第一次职业生涯那样做，还是在做

You were doing the same way as your first career or you were doing

我希望我能做得不一样。

I did some hope I could do it differently.

那也是因为我觉得，人生中有时——也许就像你现在感受到的那样——你的需求是不同的。

That was really also my because I felt sometimes in your life, it's probably maybe what you you feel now at the moment that you have different kind of needs.

有时候到了某个年龄就是这样。

You it's sometimes at a certain age.

我第一次退役时就有这种感觉。

That's what I felt actually when I stopped tennis for the first time.

我觉得现在需要多陪陪家人。

I felt I need to be in my family now.

对我来说，解决这些问题很重要。

It's important for me to fix these things.

然后我开始非常想念网球。

Then I started to miss tennis a lot.

我也在问自己：我现在还能否重返巡回赛，同时让家庭生活更平衡？

And also, was asking myself the question, am I able to come back now to the tour that I'm more balanced in my family life?

我解决了很多问题，如今生活看起来更健康了，我想带着这种新理念重新回归。

I fixed a lot of things and it looks like more healthy today and I want to try to come back with that new idea.

我带着卡洛斯复出了。

I came back with Carlos.

也许我可以以不同的方式来做。

Maybe I could do it in a different way.

也许我确实需要，嗯，换个角度来看待问题。

Maybe I needed, yeah, to to have another another point of view.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

但我不是那种活在过去、说‘我本该做这个或那个’的人，因为我们当时那样做，是因为

But I'm not the kind of person who live in the past and say, I should have done this or that because if we do it the way we do, it's because

他觉得那是属于我们自己的时刻。

He felt it's our own moment.

你永远无法知道那是一个好的季度还是坏的季度。

And you will never know if it was a good one or a bad quarter.

也许

And maybe

你只能用当时拥有的东西去行动。

it's you do with what you have now at that time.

但你当时只能尽力而为。

But it's you do the best, actually, you can just at that time.

而且

And

我们尝试了，然后回来了，我参加了最后一届比赛，并在我的第二个锦标赛中亮相。

And we tried and we came back and I played the final edition and opened on my second tournament.

我当时在

I was in

我感到遗憾。

I regret.

情况不算太糟，但身体上我觉得不一样了。

It wasn't too bad, but physically I felt it wasn't the same.

我的身体不再接受我长期以来的训练方式。

My body wasn't accepting anymore the way I have been working for so long.

然后我就开始了，是的，我的肘部真的在受苦。

Then I started then, yeah, my elbow was really I was suffering.

所以，在受伤六个月后尝试复出的一年后，医生说一切都结束了。

So a year later after trying to come back after six months of injury, the doctor says it's over.

但我从不后悔我曾努力过，我做得很好，只是没有走得更远，我本想再进一步。

But I will never regret that I tried, worked pretty good, but I didn't go Yeah, I wanted to go a little bit further.

从身体上讲，我无法再做到那样了，但这就是生活。

Physically, I haven't been able to do that, but that's life.

两周后，我遇到了我的丈夫。

Two weeks later, I was meeting my husband.

如果我当时在澳大利亚，也许永远都不会遇见他，这就是生活。

If I was in Australia, maybe I never meet him, and that's life.

你必须接受，有时事情真的很疯狂。

You have to accept It's crazy sometimes.

是的，这样挺好。

Yeah, that's good.

是的，

Yeah,

嗯，嗯。

yeah, yeah.

这种疯狂是好的，但生活中的时机有时真的很奇妙。

It's good crazy, but sometimes the timings in life, it's quite something.

嗯，嗯。

Yeah, yeah.

真的很奇妙。

It's quite something.

而且

And

当你

when you

在你的职业生涯中，尤其是在巅峰时期，你所面对的对手都是那些身材更高大、更强壮的女选手，那时网球运动员整体变得更高、更强壮了。

were in your career, especially at the top, you were competing against all the girls who were like, it was a moment where tennis was becoming better athlete, like taller, stronger and everything.

你是如何与那些女选手竞争的？

How did you manage to compete against those girls?

确实如此。

It's true.

我刚进入巡回赛时，正是塞雷娜、阿梅莉和其他选手的时代，但加文体育，阿梅莉。

It was when I arrived on the tour, it was really the time of Serena Amelie and others, but Gavin Sport, Amelie.

阿梅莉。

Amelie.

我喜欢我打网球的那段时光，因为那时候有非常多不同风格的90年代选手，打法也多种多样。

And there was, I did love the time I was playing tennis because you had so many different kind of most 90s and so many different type of games.

我身高一米六五，刚来的时候就是这样。

For me coming there, one meter, 65.

但这却是我人生中的挑战。

But it's been the challenge of my life.

我的第一个决赛赛事，我六岁，对手比我高很多，场边的人笑着议论，这个小女孩怎么打得过对方？但我总是把这当成一种挑战，心想：我要让你们看看。

My first final tournament, I was six and I was playing a girl that was much taller than me, and people around the court were laughing, say, how hard this little girl is gonna do against and for me, I always also took that as as a game to say, I'm gonna show you.

我当然有点害怕和紧张，也对对手感到过害怕。

I'm gonna I mean, of course, I was a bit afraid and nervous, and I have been scared about about my concurrence also.

对阵塞雷娜时并不容易，对我来说，真正的挑战在于如何在球场上确立自己的位置并发挥我的优势。

It wasn't that easy to when against Serena, for example, the challenge it has been for me to really take my place on the court and use my qualities.

但我从小就开始为此努力，告诉自己：好吧，我有一双好眼睛。

But I started to work on that since I was a kid and to say, okay, I'm I have a good eye.

在技术上，我也能弥补很多不足。

Technically also, I can compensate a lot.

我们总是努力不断开发和提升我的优势。

We always try to develop more and more my qualities.

当然，我无法再长高了，所以我必须打得更好。

Of course, I couldn't be taller, so I had to play well.

你

You

你仍然抱有希望，但他却在观察。

were still hoping, but he was looking.

这始终是一个挑战，但对我来说，有趣的是，我该如何凭借自己的优势去应对——你总能看到别人拥有而你没有的东西，但我们一直专注于打磨自己的长处。

And it's always a challenge to I mean, but for me, what is funny to this is this, how I'm going to do with my qualities, because you can always look at what the others have and we don't have, but we really have been focused on working on my on my strengths.

这并不意味着，从身体上讲，我有时能像塞雷娜那样打出几乎一样的力量，嗯。

Doesn't mean that because at the end physically, maybe I could hit almost as hard as Serena sometimes was doing because Mhmm.

可以早早地击球。

Could take the ball early.

我的时机把握得很好。

I had the right timing.

技术上，我做到了这一点。

Technically, I did this.

但这一部分更多是心理层面的。

And but it's more mental on that part.

在心理上也真的很难，要告诉自己，好吧。

It has been really mental also to to say, okay.

是的。

Yes.

他们更高，但我总会找到办法。

They are taller, but I'm gonna find a way.

我跑动很好，这也是我的目标之一：让对手移动，尽早击球。

I can run good, and that's gonna be my my goal also to make them move, to take the ball early.

而且尽早击球，这让我们和卡洛斯有一天进行了深入讨论。

And and to take the ball early, that's that's image of we had a big discussion with Carlos one day.

我当时大约十岁，就在迪拜锦标赛之前。

I was 10, I think, and it was just before the tournament of Dubai.

我多次输给了金，具体次数记不清了，可能是三比二或三比三，那场比赛我无法发挥自己，因为我站在底线后四米处。

And I lost against Kim for the I don't know how many times, but three and two or three and three, it wasn't a match that I could express myself, I was four meters from my baseline.

于是我和卡洛斯讨论说，好吧。

And Carlos, we had the discussion of, okay.

你现在是个很棒的球员，但如果你想更进一步，就必须承担责任，而让你远离底线的那根弹性带就是关键。

You're a very good player now, but if you want to go, you're gonna need to take your responsibilities and what makes you the elastic band keeping you away from the baseline.

我们开始针对这一点进行训练。

We started to work on that.

因为当你最终不敢冒险时，问题就会显现出来。

And because when you don't take the risk at the end, you know the issue.

但有时候冒险，你可能还是不够好，因为前方总有人比你更强。

But sometimes taking the risk, maybe you're not gonna be good enough because there will be someone in front of you that's gonna be still better than you.

在我看来，这方法效果不错，让我保持了状态。

And this in my mind, I mean, worked pretty well to stay okay.

我明白，我想冒险试试能否激发出更出色的表现，而这些方法确实很有效。

I understood I wanted to take that risk to see if I was able to provoke something something more, and they they worked pretty good.

最终，我找到了自己的位置，在球场上对抗那些比我更高大、力量更强的女孩。

So I could finally find I take my place on the court against the the taller girls, more powerful than than me.

对我来说，当那个矮小的人很有趣。

And for me, it was funny to be the small one.

但我充分利用了自己的优势。

But you use my qualities.

我很开心。

I'm happy.

我不敢说自豪，但我很高兴自己打出了和许多球员不同的风格。

I wouldn't say proud, but I'm happy I played a different kind of game as many of the players.

这正是让我喜欢自己那种富有创意、带来不同风格的原因。

That's what makes me yeah, like the way I was creative and to bring something different.

这是我非常喜欢做的事情。

Was something I did like a lot.

看你总是上网截击，而且因为单手反手而经常在后场使用切削，同时在网前积极施压，这看起来真不错。

It was nice to watch where you were always going to the net and obviously bringing the slice in the back end because of the one handed, but trying to be a lot at the net.

尤其是，我有些记忆。

Especially like, I have some memories.

我记得第一次来菲利普·夏特里埃球场时，我和父母买了票来看你比赛。

I'm seeing the first time I came to Philippe Chattrier, I had tickets with my parents and you were playing.

是吗？

Yeah?

是的。

Yes.

你太久了。

You're way too long.

你提到过，是的。

You mentioned that it's Yeah.

我当时看你打球，安德烈·阿加西也在打，还有罗杰·费德勒。

I was you were playing, Andrew Agassi played also, and Roger Federer.

我觉得他那时候还留着小辫子。

I think he still had the little ponytail.

是的。

Yes.

曾经有一段时间。

There was a time.

你挺有趣的，但看电视时，我总记得你经常上网，我真的非常喜欢这一点。

So you're like quite funny, but then on TV, always remember like you were going a lot to the net, so I really liked it.

看比赛很有趣。

It was fun to watch.

但这花了我一段时间才做到这样。

But it took me a while to doesn't come like this.

这是一个漫长的过程。

It's a long process.

这需要大量的努力，你知道的。

It's a lot of hard work, you know?

但这是你想要的方式。

But it's how you wanna yeah.

你与目标的连接方式。

How you are connected to the goals.

对我来说，一直都是这样，这帮助我一步步走向不同的阶段。

For me, it was always this, and that helped me to, yeah, to go to different stages.

但我的职业生涯中也错过了一些东西，一些我想要做却没能做到的事情。

But I missed something also of I mean, from my career that, you know, stuff that I wanted to do and then I haven't been able to do.

比如赢得温布尔登，我曾两次进入决赛。

Winning Wimbledon, for example, I've been two times in position.

是的。

Yeah.

关于温布尔登，我从未真正深信自己能赢得冠军，因为我总觉得自己身边那些更高大的选手，比如在大满贯决赛中对阵的维纳斯。

And it's amazing on how Wimbledon, I never had the deep conviction that I could win Wimbledon because I always thought I have layers My that are taller on first grandsame final, it was against Venus over there.

我当时19岁，那不是一个美好的回忆。

I was 19, and it's not a very good memory.

那场决赛我的体验并不好。

I didn't have good experience in that final.

就在那天，我的祖父去世了。

My grandfather passed away also that day.

那段糟糕的记忆一直萦绕着我，让我始终无法真正相信自己。

And that bad memory stayed And I never been able to believe enough.

这就是为什么信念如此重要，这也是关键所在。

This is why belief is so This is the key also into this.

正如我们之前聊到的，身边有正确的人相信你的潜力，并真正引导你建立这种信念，这会带来根本性的不同。

That's true when we were talking a bit earlier to have the right people around you that believe in your potential and really guide you into these convictions that makes the whole difference.

至于温布尔登，我没能

And Wimbledon, well, I couldn't

去做吧。

do it.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你的打法非常适合草地。

Because your game was a good match with the grass.

但想象一下你那些

But imagine how things you

能放在脑海里的东西。

can put in the head.

是的。

Yes.

我懂一两件事。

I know one thing or two.

有时候，你才是自己最大的敌人。

Sometimes you can be your worst enemy.

确实如此。

It's true.

确实如此。

It's true.

是啊。

Yeah.

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

这意味着我们真正带来的是什么，以及我们如何能够改变这一点，实际上是我们如何改变自己的思维方式。

It means that really what we bring and how we can change this actually, how we can change the way we think.

这是最难的，但有时候它会产生巨大的影响，我认为。

That's the hardest, but sometimes it makes a huge difference, I think.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以最后这就有道理了。

That's why it makes sense at the end.

回归本源，不仅要关注网球和田径等运动，更要关注整个人，包括思维能力和独立思考的能力。

Going back to their roots, not to take care of the, as a whole of the human being, not only the tennis and the athletics, but the mind, the ability to think for yourself.

我认为这将变得极其重要，尤其是在网球这种需要做出大量决策的运动中。

I think that's going to be super important, especially in a game as tennis where you have to take so many decisions.

是的。

Yeah.

而且节奏很快。

And it goes quick.

是的。

Yeah.

但最终，无论是网球还是生活，关键在于我们如何照顾自己。

But at the end for tennis or for life, how we take care of ourselves.

是的。

Yes.

但有时候，比如踢足球，你就进入了一个团队氛围，别人会告诉你什么时候训练、怎么训练，等等。

But sometimes, no, if you play football, for example, no, you enter a team dynamic and know where you have They tell you how to practice, when to practice, blah, blah, blah.

但在网球中，你可以选择自己的教练和理疗师。

But in tennis, you choose your coach, you choose your physio.

因此，培养这种辨别对错、独立思考的能力，应该是首要任务，我

So to develop this ability to understand what is right, what is wrong, and to think, it should be priority number one, I

想。

guess.

没错。

That's right.

你从未真正想过要执教顶尖水平的选手吗？

You never really wanted to coach top level to level?

曾以顾问身份短暂协助过埃琳娜。

Did a bit with Elena as consultant.

作为顾问，我不认为在几周内就能真正带来或增添什么价值。

As consultant, but for consultants, I don't believe that you can in a few weeks really bring or add something.

我认为你需要了解我们一直谈论的那个人——这个完整的人。

I think that you need to know the person we have been talking a lot about, the human being.

而且你需要花时间，我的意思是，我相信，因为你也在谈论了解这个人，这还涉及到爱。

And you need to spend time, I mean, I believe, because you are also talking about knowing the person, about love also.

你需要投入时间去理解、去尊重，尊重是最关键的，而且没错，我认为你必须真正付出很多，才能真正了解这个人，这需要时间。

Need to it's also the time that you invest to understand, to respect, to Respect is the best, but And yeah, I think that you need to really give a lot from yourself that takes time to understand the person.

不可能在几周内就跑来说：好吧，我要做这个、这个、这个。

It's not in a few weeks that you can come and say, okay, I'm going to do this, this, this.

现在，我们所有人都需要极大的谦逊来做到这一点。

Now we need all of us a lot of humility for this.

我不相信仅仅靠一些建议，你就能让——

And I don't believe with just some advices you can make the-

一些神奇的、神奇的秘诀。

Some magic, some magic portion.

我太厉害了，我给你两周时间，就能让你变成——

I'm so good that I give you two weeks and I will turn you in We touch

我们会知道的。

would know it.