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四字神名。
Tetragrammaton.
首先，我非常幸运，身边都是特别出色的人。
First of all, I'm very blessed, and I keep the company of the most amazing people.
我一直都知道，但当你失去一些朋友时，才会真正开始反思人生。
I've always known this, but when you lose some friends, you start taking a good look at life.
就像乔伊的事，我总想跟人解释，因为大家对我和乔伊的关系特别苛刻，你知道，我们乐队分开了。
And then, you know, like with Joey, I I try to explain to people, you know, because people are really hard on me with Joey because, you know, we separate it, you know, the band.
但外人根本不知道背后的故事。
Know, but human beings don't know the story.
真正的朋友不会说，是因为在乎。
Real friends don't tell it because of love.
人年纪大了，才会慢慢看明白。
And you get older, you start recognizing it.
在我整个职业生涯里，从来没人停下来问过我，这张专辑封面为什么是这样的。
No one in my career has really like stopped me and asked me what the album cover was or why this?
你知道吧，我再也不想强加给任何人了，真的。
You know, I'm not trying to force it down anybody anymore, you know?
我从来就没这么做过。
I never was.
我只是单纯热爱艺术。
I just love art.
我的工作就是做一个这样的愿景型人物，你知道吧？当初和我一起组建乐队的贝斯手保罗·格雷就总说，我会彻底改变金属乐的视觉风格。
And that was my job, was to be this, like, visionary sort of, you know, Paul Gray, the bass player who I started the band with, you know, he always said I was gonna change the face of metal the way it looks.
是的。
Yeah.
你明白吗？
You know?
你确实做到了。
And you did.
直到他离开后，我才真正意识到这一点。
I didn't recognize that until he was gone.
和乔伊在一起的时候，我根本没意识到他有多了不起，也没觉得自己有多幸运能和他在一起，那时候我还老说：‘你又迟到了。’
And with Joey, you know, I didn't recognize how great he was and how blessed I was to be in his presence because I was like, Yo, you're late.
我帮你搬过鼓组。
I carried your drum set up.
别再这样了。
Don't do it again.
我真能把它们从楼梯上踢下去。
I'm going to kick it down the stairs.
他倒说：‘你倒是试试看啊。’
He's like, I'd like to see it.
我们那时候是好兄弟。
We were bros.
我当时没意识到。
I wasn't
你们那时候都还是孩子。
And you were kids.
是的
Yeah.
我可不是在瞎说，我知道他的双踩太厉害了。
I'm not stopping like, I knew his double bass was sick.
我知道他的水平比谁都强。
I knew it was better than anyone.
我连他填奏的每一个细节都懂，你知道吧？
I know the sex of his fills, you know?
那些节奏就是特别有魅力，特别深情，根本不是靠技巧硬堆出来的。
Like, they're just sexy and romantic and have so much feeling and not even like a technique.
就像有人递给你一块丝绸手帕，你突然就愣住了。
It's like some sort of, Hey, here's a silk handkerchief.
你就是忍不住想说：哇，这感觉真棒。
You're just like, Woah, I feel good.
我一直以来都把我的工作看得极其认真。
My job has always been to take what I do very, very, very, very, very, very serious.
有点太较真了，因为
Almost too serious because
什么太较真了？
What's too serious?
太较真了
Too Hard to
较真才是常态。
serious is for the norm.
我身边总是围着太多这样的人。
I end up being around a lot of norm.
是啊。
Yeah.
而且
And
所以他们让我觉得自己像个疯子。
so they make me feel crazy.
所以你的选择就是把自己降低到平庸的水平。
So your choice is to dumb yourself down to the norm.
是的。
Yeah.
这根本不可接受。
It's not acceptable.
对，不行。
Yeah, no.
我不会那样做，但我确实会像个疯子一样到处走。
And I don't do it, but I do walk around like a crazy man.
他们会让我觉得自己真的疯了，觉得我必须把水准降下来，迎合大众。
They will make me believe that I'm crazy and that, you know, I got to bring it down to the norm.
可我心里清楚，第一，这根本不可能。
And I'm like, well, we all know that A, that's not happening.
第二，这种活法在我眼里根本不对劲。
B, that doesn't sound correct to me in life anyway.
我一直以来都想尽全力做到最好，发挥出最大的潜力，因为我所接触的人让我相信运气这回事，我真的这么觉得。
I just have always wanted to do my very best and be the biggest I could be because the company I keep, I believe in luck because I just do.
你确实亲身经历过。
I just And you've experienced it.
我经历过，但与其说我是靠运气，不如说我更幸运一些。
I've experienced But luck, you I'm more blessed than I am lucky.
我绝不会假装成
And I would never perpetrate to
一个不是自己的人。
be something I'm not.
所以我这一生都在面对一个问题：大家都知道，接下来会发生什么？
So my whole life has been this question of everybody, you know, what happens next?
而且我从小就经历了创伤，很早就明白了这一点。
And, you know, I learned from a very early age with trauma.
我从小就意识到，我们终究逃不掉的。
I learned very early that we weren't getting out of here.
如果我们能出去，那也是我们所有人唯一能做的事。
And if we were, it was the only thing any of us were gonna do.
但每个人都会以不同的方式去做。
And we're all gonna do it differently.
这样一来，事情就显得挺独特的。
That makes it pretty original.
可既然人人都在做，这到底有多独特呢？
But since everybody's doing it, how original is it really?
听上去对每个人来说都差不多。
It sounds like the same for everybody.
所以我得好好琢磨一下这个问题。
So I got to dig in on that.
而我找到的切入点，就是很早就抓住了自由意志这个概念，因为我上小学前就去教堂了，那其实是我的第一个托儿所。
So the only way to dig in on that, you know, that I did was that I grasped a hold of free will pretty easy and pretty early in life because I went to church before school because that was the first daycare.
爸妈得早起上班，就把我送到教堂，由年纪最大的牧师照看，因为他每天凌晨三点就起床了。
So mom and dad had to be at work early, so they dropped off and you have the oldest pastor giving it because he's up at 03:30.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，跟讲道的那位大叔有点难有共鸣，他年纪大，但人家阅历丰富，你真该听听他的。
And you know, it's a little hard to connect with the dude in the sermon because he's older and stuff, but you know, he's got a life of wisdom, so you should listen.
所以保罗跟我说，你要改变金属，你知道的，这可不是不敬。
So when Paul would say to me, you know, you're going to change metal, you know, this isn't any disrespect.
我就看着他问，你是说我要把皮夹克和牛仔夹克上的那些徽章都换掉？
What I would say is I would, I looked at him and I said, does that mean like, I'm going to change the leather jacket and the jean jacket with the patches?
我是想，去激励点什么，你知道的？
I'm gonna get to, like, motivate some stuff, you know?
他回我说，对，你懂的。
And he's like, Yeah, you know?
是的。
Yeah.
他还说，但那些东西还是会存在的。
And he's like, But that stuff's still gonna be around.
我说，我不是在贬低这个。
I'm like, Hey, I'm not knocking it.
对。
Yeah.
你说我要改变金属风格。
You're saying I'm gonna change metal.
我没有兄弟姐妹。
I don't have brothers and sisters.
我是家里唯一一个住在地下室的孩子。
I'm the only child that lived in my basement.
我得到的每一样东西，都是自己挣来的。
Anything I got, I had to get myself.
没人帮过我。
There was no one helping.
没错。
No.
所以我也不清楚在你眼里金属乐是什么样子。
So I don't know what metal is to you.
保罗·格雷以前在洛杉矶的停车场里看Slayer的演出。
Paul Gray would watch Slayer in a parking lot in LA somewhere.
就是Slayer还没火起来的时候，在停车场那种地方。
You know, before they're big time Slayer, like in a parking lot.
他给我讲了这些事。
He's telling me these stories.
他跟我说，东洛杉矶的小子啊，或者卡尔弗城的人，怎么去参加这些演出，他对我特别好，帮我找到了方向，觉得我的路应该是层层递进、突然爆发，然后迎来高潮。
You know, East LA Kid, you know, or Culver City and going to these shows, and he did really well with me and he showed me my path and he thought my path was crescendos and breakdowns and big rejoices.
他给我推荐了Rage Against the Machine，直接跳到那段大破局，甚至提前放给我听，害得我都没好好体会那段音乐是怎么落下来的。
So he showed me Rage Against the Machine, he went right to the big breakdown, actually played into it, played it before it, so I didn't even really get to hear it go down.
他说：‘抱歉，倒回去重放一下。’
He's like, Oh, sorry, back.
音乐一放，你就听到了：‘去你的，我偏不听你的。’
Play it, comes down, you know, Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me.
然后，砰的一下。
You know, boom.
我就这么看着他，他把磁带递给我，说：这是你的。
And I just looked at him and he handed me the tape and he's like, That's yours.
他说：我觉得你其实就是这样的。他说得没错。
He's like, That's who I think you know you're And he was right.
我是个四四拍的鼓手。
I was a 4.4 drummer.
我也会打点爵士，但最拿手的还是四四拍。
I play some jazz, but I'm really good at 4.4.
你小时候听什么音乐？
What's the music you grew up on?
我小时候听的是蒙特雷流行音乐节、吉米·亨德里克斯、老鹰乐队、猫王。
I grew up on Monterey Pop Festival, Hendrix, the band, Elvis.
披头士的歌听得太多了，多到你都想不到。
So much Beatles, you can't even imagine.
我妈妈每周都会提醒我：别忘了，披头士是史上最伟大的乐队，永远都是。
I mean, my mom would tell me once a week, Don't ever forget, the Beatles are the greatest band ever and always will be.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时就回她：随便吧。
And I'm like, Whatever.
你知道吗，我还问过：谁是Flat Top？
You know, I'm like, Who's Flat Top?
结果她是对的。
Turns out she was right.
是的。
Yeah.
然后我就拿了个摇滚博士头衔。
And then get the PhD in rock and roll.
而且，说实话，我现在跟你合作呢。
And, you know, I'm working with you.
格雷格·菲德尔曼跟我说，嘿，这整个板子一半都是《双重幻想》的板子之类的。
Greg Fiddleman tells me, Hey, half this board is the double fantasy board or whatever.
我就想，对啊，毕竟还是披头士。
And I'm like, you know, so yeah, Beatles.
列侬算是我心目中的超级英雄。
Lennon's my sort of superhero.
你知道吧，要是他那时候愿意带我玩，我大概就会跟他混在一起。
You know, he'd be who I probably would've hung out with if he would've had me,
对吧？
you know?
斯利普克诺特最初是怎么想到的？
Was there a seed idea for Slipknot?
说来有意思，当时商场里有个华氏药房，我妈牵着我逛商场，我站在她右边，橱窗里摆着一整排黑胶唱片。
Well, interesting enough, there was like a Walgreens in a mall, and my mom was walking me in the mall, and I was holding her hand, and I was on the right side, and they put the vinyl in the window, a big, long window.
那橱窗得有将近十米长，新发行的专辑全摆在最前面，Kiss的《王朝》封面，银色的吸引了我，黑色的也让我着了迷，我当场就站住了，我妈的手都拽不动我，我就盯着吉恩·西蒙斯看。
It had to be 30 foot long, and you just see all the new releases out in the front and Kiss Dynasty, the silver got me and the black got me and I just stopped and my mom's hand went and I was just staring at Gene Simmons.
我妈妈问我：你喜欢这个吗？
And my mom goes, Do you like that?
我说：是的。
And I go, Yeah.
我也不太清楚。
I don't know.
这到底是什么？
What is it?
她就说：咱们过去看看吧。
And she's like, Let's go look.
她之前根本没听说过KISS这个乐队。
She had never heard of KISS before that.
那是我第一次接触。
First experience.
我们转过拐角，她问：就是这个吗？
And we walked around the corner, and she goes, Is this it?
我说，对。
I go, Yeah.
她问，你最喜欢它什么地方？
And she goes, What do you like about it?
我说，你看看这个人。
I'm like, Look at this guy.
我说，我想变成他那样。
I go, I wanna look like that.
我把这话告诉了她。
And I told her that.
我说，我就是这样的。
I go, That's me.
她问，你说这是你，什么意思？
And she goes, What do you mean it's you?
我说，我也不清楚。
I go, I don't know.
我说，我这才明白，这是化妆。
I go, I realize it's makeup.
我说，这是个乐队吗？
I'm like, Is this a band?
她说，对，是个乐队，他们平时就穿成这样。
And she's like, Yeah, it's a band, and this is what they wear.
我当时就说，这正是我想说的。
And I was like, That's what I mean.
我说，我要是化了妆，肯定就是他那样。
I'm like, If I was wearing makeup, I'd be this guy.
我不会是那个戴星星的家伙。
I would not be the guy with the star.
那只猫挺酷的。
The cat's cool.
还是觉得有点
It's still too
不是你的问题。
-It's not you.
也不是我的问题。
-It's not me.
我当时就想，我喜欢这个太空人，但他得当吉他手什么的，你知道吧？
And I'm like, I love the space man, but he's got to be the guitar player or something, you know?
他是NASA的，所以我担心这个太空主题。
Like, He's NASA, so I'm like, I'm worried about this space.
我可不去那个太空。
I'm not going to that space.
但吉恩，那双眼睛和那份坚定，我妈妈就说，让我看看。
But, Gene, those eyes and that conviction, so my mom's like, Let me look at it.
她看了之后。
She looked at it.
她说，你要喜欢，我给你买。
She's like, I'll get it for you if you want it.
我当时就想，这太棒了。
I was like, That'd be cool.
于是我们买回来了，直接回家，那时候我已经会玩黑胶了，经常听我妈的唱片。
So we got it, went right home, and I'd already been taught how to work vinyl, was listening to my mom's records.
你那时候大概多大？
How old were you, would you say?
那会儿还没上六年级呢。
It's way before sixth grade.
应该是三年级或者四年级。
It's got to be third or fourth grade.
真的挺小的。
It's pretty early.
大概是八十年代初，八一年左右。
Know, 'eighty, 'eighty one.
我还记得坐在我妈的音响前，盘腿坐着，就那么盯着看。
But I can remember sitting in front of my mom's stereo, Indian style, you know, just checking it out.
就像我之前说的，我是独生子，所以我的想象力就是我的世界。
And I'm like I said, I'm an only child, so my imagination is where I live.
我能坐在那儿，脑子里就已经开始演起来了。
So I can just sit there and just I'm already playing things in my mind.
后来他们就开始给我买各种唱片。
So then they started buying me all the records.
我记得他们接下来给我买了《Destroyer》。
I remember they got me Destroyer next.
对。
Yeah.
后来我爸出去旅行，回来带了《Kiss Alive II》。
And then my dad went on a trip and he came back with Kiss Alive two.
当我看到背面Gene满身汗和血的照片时，我就明白了，这可不是几个小伙子随便涂点妆玩玩。
And when I saw the picture of Gene on the back with the sweat and the blood, I was like, okay, this isn't a bunch of guys just wearing makeup.
我不太懂这人到底在搞什么。
I don't know what this guy's about.
我不是喜欢黑暗恐怖的东西，但那就是我。
Like, I'm not into dark, scary stuff, but it was me.
你知道吗，我就想要那种血淋淋的感觉。
You know, I'm like, I want the blood.
我小时候经历了不少事，谁知道大脑到底怎么被塑造的，为什么我就是特别想成为吉恩·西蒙斯呢？
And, you know, I went through some stuff as a kid, and who knows where the real brain goes because of what we go through or why I literally wanted to be Gene Simmons?
我也说不清楚。
I don't know.
我妈妈会给我讲披头士的鲍勃头，然后讲吉姆·莫里森，说你看他多帅。
Was it because my mom would explain the bob haircuts that the Beatles had, and then she would explain Jim Morrison and go, Look at how beautiful he is.
她说，要不是嫁给你爸，我真想跟吉姆·莫里森混在一起；但要选个叛逆的，那肯定是罗德·斯图尔特。
She's like, If I wasn't married to your dad, I could, I would hang out with Jim Morrison, but if I wanted to be dirty, it'd be Rod Stewart.
我就在旁边想，妈，你这说的是啥啊？
And I'd just be like, Mom, what are you talking about?
所以我学到了很多，不过不管怎样，那才是我最初的起点。
So I learned a lot, but anyway, that was my first thing.
好多唱片开始源源不断地来了。
Lots of records start coming.
然后我就这么踏上了自己的路。
And then somehow I was on my journey.
于是啊，Quiet Riot来了，Mötley Crüe来了，还有AC/DC全部都来了。
So, you know, Quiet Riot came, Motley Crue, everything ACDC.
我的人生真的深受他们影响。
I mean, they're a big contributor to my life.
我跟你聊他们，能聊上好几个小时都不带停的。
I mean, I could talk to you for hours and hours about just what they are.
天啊。
God.
很多人可能都不知道，他们还拍过一部电影，叫《Let There Be Rock》，你听说过吗？
I mean, I don't think a lot of people know that they have a movie, Let There Be Rock, you know, that movie?
当年在得梅因的电影院放这部电影时，观众们都会打扮成安格斯·杨的样子。
And when they would show it in a movie theater in Des Moines, people would dress up like Angus Young.
他一开独奏，大家就满场跑，戴着帽子，穿着学生装，我们全都站起来——可这只是一个电影啊，你知道的，我们在得梅因，能放个电影都算幸运了。
And when he would do his solo, they would run up and down the thing, the hat, the schoolboy stuff, And we'd all stand up and this is just a movie, you know, and we're in Des Moines, so we're lucky if anything makes it.
但我第一次看的现场演唱会是Kiss乐队。
But I saw Kiss was my very first concert.
我记得空气中有一股味道，我当时就想，这味道说不上来，但真喜欢。
And I remember there was a smell in the air and I was like, I don't know what that smell is, but I like it.
那种感觉，就像回到家一样。
And I feel like I'm at home with that.
我说，真不知道那是什么。
I go, I don't know what it is.
我记得跟朋友聊过这事。
I remember talking to my friends.
我就问：那到底是什么东西？
I'm like, What is that?
有人就说：好像是大麻吧，之类的。
Someone's like, It's marijuana or whatever.
我觉得这味道真不错。
And I was like, Smells good.
后来我才注意到，所有中学的学生都来了，因为我成长的那个年代，如果你在错的街区，周围全是噪音，那就是当时的常态。
And then I noticed that all the high schools were there because I was I just grew up in a different time where there was a lot of static if you were in the wrong part of town, and that's how you did it.
那时候还没有互联网。
There was no Internet.
你只能靠这种方式释放压力，我想是这样。
You know, you just It's how you burn off steam, I guess.
KISS把所有人都聚在了一起。
So KISS brought everyone together.
KISS把所有人都聚在了一起，我当时就觉得，我找到家了。
KISS brought everyone together and I was like, I'm home.
对。
Yeah.
我都不知道自己是怎么走到这一步的。
I don't know how I got here.
我都不知道这玩意儿还存在。
I didn't know this existed.
我以前跟老爸去过好多场演出。
And I had gone to a lot of shows with my dad.
他带我去看过杰瑞·李·刘易斯、雷·查尔斯、很多B.B.金、约翰·卡卢·梅伦坎普、多莉·帕顿，还有博西弗斯。
He took me to Jerry Lee, Ray Charles, a lot of BB King, John Cougar Mellencamp, Dolly Parton, Boseefis.
但那些都是他自己喜欢的音乐。
But those were more things he liked.
是的。
Yeah.
我老爸说过这话。
My dad said this.
他说：我不太懂你们现在小孩听的那些东西，但如果你真想玩音乐，我得让你知道这行当的根在哪。
He goes, I don't really understand what your kids listen to and what that's about, but if you're gonna get into music, I want you to know where it came from.
你妈已经跟你讲了不少披头士和大门乐队的事，但我带你去听雷·查尔斯。
Your mom does a real good job telling you about the Beatles and the Doors and stuff, but I'm gonna take you to Ray Charles.
等你长大了，就会说：我亲眼见过雷·查尔斯。
And you're gonna get older and you're gonna say, I saw Ray Charles.
你会因为热爱音乐而产生共鸣，浑身起鸡皮疙瘩，真正感受到那种力量。
You're And gonna be able to explain because you love music and you're gonna get goosebumps and you're gonna feel this.
我记得以前对爸爸带我去的那些演出特别有看法。
So I remember having a big opinion about the shows my dad would take me to.
是的。
Yeah.
我特别期待那些演出。
And I really looked forward to them.
你父母在家会放音乐吗？
Would your parents play music in the house?
我妈妈和爸爸，这么说吧，我爸爸有酗酒问题，生活中也经历了很多事。
My mom, my dad, and I mean this in the most loving way, you know, my dad was an alcoholic and he had a lot going on.
因为他深受这些问题困扰，所以很多时候都心不在焉，你知道的。
And so he wasn't really present because of things he was suffering from, you know?
所以妈妈放音乐，很早就发现我特别被音乐吸引，能从中获得平静，甚至觉得比出去踢足球还好，可能我内心有点积压的怒气，而我确实有些状况，只是当时自己也不懂，直到长大后才慢慢被音乐塑造。
So mom played the music and she noticed very early that I gravitated to it, that I could get some peace and that maybe it was even better than going out and playing kickball because maybe I had some built up aggression a little bit and I'm actually, you know, got some things going on because of what's going on here, but we're not gonna know that until I'm older and I'm being imprinted.
但因为脾气暴躁，我差点被高中开除，后来他们给我做了生物反馈治疗，结果我反而迷失了方向。
But music, you know, almost got expelled out of high school for temper and they finally did this biofeedback crap on me and I lost my way.
他们差不多把我洗脑了，但幸好有音乐，有朋友，音乐从来都没有放弃过我。
They brainwashed me basically for a bit, But I had music, and I had my friends, and I had And music never gave up on me.
是的。
-Yeah.
那时候我完全没法发火，他们就像《发条橙》那样改造了我。
-And even though I couldn't get I totally They clockwork orange me.
我真的完全生不起气来了。
Like, straight up, I couldn't get angry.
音乐救了我一命。
It saved my life.
而且我在生物反馈方面特别在行。
And I was so good at biofeedback.
不过你并没有给我用镇静剂。
You didn't sedate you though.
我当时有两件事困扰着我，抱歉，我说得有点乱，不过这挺好。
It was two things on my, I'm sorry, I'm That's good.
真的很抱歉。
Know, I'm so apologies.
我思绪有点乱，但现在一切都清楚了。
Scattered, You know, all makes sense.
是的，都没事。
Yeah, it's all good.
你根本不用向我道歉。
You never to apologize
向我。
to me.
我到处都是。
I'm everywhere.
我确实努力想控制住，但在我的理解里，这事儿是——
I really try to reel in, but in my book, it's-
随它去吧。
Let it
放开了。
go.
这些都是诱饵而已。
It's all the lures.
你自由了。
You are free.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
这正是你的优势。
That's your strength.
确实是。
It is.
确实是。
It is.
我渐渐明白，我确实需要这样，我的优势就在这里。
And I'm learning that I need to, yeah, I'm learning it's my strength.
一切都好。
It's all good.
我真讨厌，直到五十岁才意识到自己的长处，但这就是智慧啊。
I hate that it took me to my 50s to realize my strengths, but that's what wisdom is.
当时这儿、这儿贴着电极，连着一台机器，我得跟新生辅导员坐在一起，听一段录音，录音一开始会教你呼吸。
Anyway, it was an electrode thing here, here, just glued, It was to a machine and I had to sit with the freshman counselor and I had to listen to a tape and the tape would tell you, you know, breathing at first.
那时候我还不知道我有睡眠呼吸暂停。
I didn't know at the time that I had sleep apnea.
好多年里，我每晚只睡一个小时左右。
I was only sleeping about an hour a night for years.
所以我当时进入了一种不同的意识状态，这才撑了过来。
And so I was on a level of a different kind of consciousness and was able to survive.
我到现在还是这样。
And I'm still that way.
你看昨天，我只睡了1分钟的快速眼动睡眠，七个小时躺在床上，实际只睡了两小时十一次分钟。
Like, looked yesterday, I got one minute of Ram sleep, and I got two hours and eleven minutes of sleep out of seven hours in the bed.
真惊人。
Wow.
我一直在努力，可就是睡不着。
Trying, so I don't sleep.
我老婆总担心我会彻底睡不着了。
My wife's always afraid I'm gonna not ever sleep.
我就这么一直晃荡着，挺难的，但这就是我。
I'm just gonna be walking around and it's hard, but that's who I am.
这其实对我也有好处，但我还是想恢复过来。
And it kind of works in my favor, but I want to get back.
我想回到那种状态。
I want to get back.
所以录音里会说：‘生气吧。’
So the tape would say, Get angry.
然后你就真的生气了，接着就会响起‘哔、哔、哔、哔’的声音，你懂吧？
And you get angry and it would go beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, you know?
目标就是让那个声音变成持续不断的‘哔——’。
And the point was to get it to go beep, just solid.
那说明你完全掌控了自己。
It means you're in full control.
你正在暴怒。
You're raging.
但你的内心在冷静思考。
You're inside thinking.
你体内有种内在的超能力，得把它磨炼出来。
You got like an inner superhero power and you got to hone in on it.
当你做到这一点时，那个声音就会保持稳定。
And when you do that, that thing will stay constant.
它不会再滴滴响了。
It will not go beep, beep.
就静静地停在那里。
It'll just sit there.
相反的做法，就是别再让它发出声音。
And then the opposite is quit making it beep.
放慢节奏。
Slow it down.
别让它一直滴滴滴滴地响。
Get it from going beep, beep, beep, beep, beep.
如果你真能让它完全停下来，
And if you can ever, get it to stop beating completely.
我不是随便说说的。
And I'm not just saying this.
我那时候可擅长了。
I was so good at it.
我能一下子从响声变成安静。
I could go from beep to silence.
我就像在跟它玩游戏一样。
I was just like playing games with it.
但我其实是在利用这个机会逃课。
But what I did was I took it as a chance to get out of class.
是的。
Yeah.
我当时根本不知道自己五分钟内就会睡着。
And I didn't know I was falling asleep in less than five minutes.
我完全没意识到。
I had no idea.
我一点都没察觉。
I had no idea.
每次我都消失了。
I disappeared every time.
我一进去，就放松下来。
I'd go in there, I'd get comfortable.
他一句话也不说。
He wouldn't say anything.
他只是把磁带放出来。
He just put on the tape.
我放松之后就睡着了，醒来的时候，他问我：感觉怎么样？
I'd get comfortable and I'd wake up and I'd be like, and he'd be like, How do you feel?
我就说：感觉特别好。
I'm like, I feel great.
他就说：对，结束了。
And he'd be like, Yeah, we're done.
我就问：刚才发生什么了？
I'm like, What happened?
他说，没什么。
He's like, Nothing.
你开始睡着了。
You started falling asleep.
今天只用了三分钟。
Today it was three minutes.
我当时就想，这是怎么回事？
And I was like, What's going on?
不过后来我去踢足球，当了个挺厉害的中锋，他们还打算让我上主力队什么的。
But, you know, and then I'd go to football and I was kind of a star nose guard they were gonna put me on varsity and stuff.
完了。
Done.
彻底凉了。
Toast.
就是提不起劲，啥也干不了。
Just couldn't get down, couldn't do anything.
所以音乐没有放弃我，但我自己总觉得没在做真正想做的事。
So music didn't give up on me, but I don't think I was doing what I wanted to do.
那时候我更倾向于放松地弹，想多练点技巧，而不是像基思·穆恩那样疯狂砸镲，管它镲片是不是着火了。
I was more like chilled out playing, maybe trying to get a little more technique rather get my Keith Moon out and not give a shit, like my cymbal's on fire.
可惜我有个老师总在课堂上为难我，我就跟他说，我没读那本书。
Unfortunately, I had a teacher kept challenging me in class and, you know, I told him I didn't read the book.
我说：不好意思，我真没读。
I'm like, I'm sorry, I didn't read it.
你给我挂科也行，就别当着这么多人的面，结果大家都笑，他还继续逼我，我就说：我能去走廊里待会儿吗？
You can give me an F, please just not in front of all these people and people were laughing and then he kept going and then I was like, Can I just go out in the hall?
等我回过神来，才发现自己把他逼到墙角，还顶着张桌子，我压根不记得自己干了这事儿。
And next thing I know, I had him in a corner with a desk and I just was unaware that I had even done that.
但我听见大家笑个不停，我又没睡好，心里也正经历着各种事，谁还没点难处呢。
But I just heard people laughing and laughing and I had no sleep and, you know, I'm going through stuff like people go through.
我讲这些，是想把话题拉回来。
I say all that because I bring it back around.
音乐和我的成长经历，是在一所近乎军事化的私立学校度过的，虽然不算完全军事化，但有严格的着装要求，还得剃光头。
Music and my upbringing in more or less a military private school without being total military, but dress code and you had to be shaven.
不过呢，我倒是能留小胡子，这一直都没被禁止。
You know, I could grow a mustache since I was in life.
你享受那段经历吗？
Did you like the experience?
不享受。
No.
你可能会被成年人打。
You could be hit by grown men.
我就被打过一次，再也没了。
And to which I was once and never again.
那是我第一次，也是唯一一次，被一个不是家人、也不是我惹毛了要拼命的人打——就是一个成年男人，一拳打在我肚子上。
That was the first and only time someone besides someone that might've been in my family or someone I was ripping my mouth off to, this was just a grown man who had the ability to give me a little thing in my diaphragm.
那时候我才十四岁。
And I'm 14 years old.
他四十多岁，下手可狠了。
He's in his 40s and scared the living.
我的意思是，他个子特别大。
I mean, he's a big dude.
他真会动手。
He'll throw down.
你可不敢顶嘴。
You're not gonna talk back.
他是负责纪律的教导主任。
He's the disciplinarian dean.
他血压很高。
He's got high blood pressure.
一发火脸就通红。
His face gets red.
我说错话了。
And I said the wrong thing.
他提醒了我一句，那话一直记在我心里。
And, you know, he gave me a reminder and it stuck.
我心想，再也不会有哪个成年男人敢因为我的嘴硬、我的态度、我睡不好觉，或者说我没人理解，就对我动手了。
I was like, No grown man will ever put their hands on me again because of my mouth and my attitude and no sleep and no one understands me.
不行，绝对不行，绝对不行，不行，不行。
No, no, no, no, no.
以后再不会有哪个成年男人敢碰我一下了，那次真的给我留下了阴影。
No grown man is going to touch me ever again because it scarred me.
我从这件事里收获了很多。
I have taken a lot of benefits from it.
你看看Slipknot，我就特别喜欢那种军规般的氛围。
You know, if you look at Slipknot, I love military issue feeling.
我喜欢有目标的感觉。
I like to have a purpose.
我喜欢守时。
I like to be on time.
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我喜欢保持距离。
I like to be separated.
那种文化，你知道的，那个圈子。
The culture, you know, the community.
这个圈子的人都很拼命。
The community works hard.
他们处处留心，最终选中了你，还把辛辛苦苦赚来的钱花在你身上。
They're looking for anything and have chosen you and given you their hard earned money.
所以我出场时，不想摆架子，就想让你知道，我是来认真做事的。
So I wanna come out, not authority, but like, you know I'm here for business.
我准时到场，状态在线，头发理得整整齐齐，该收的都收好了，你肯定能看一场精彩的演出，明白吧？
You know, I came on time, I'm in shape, hairs cut, like shit's tucked in, you're going to get a show, you know?
我就喜欢这样。
So I love that.
专业。
Professional.
是的，没错，当然。
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
想象一下天主教女校里的那些女孩，你知道的吧？
And imagine the girls at a Catholic school, you know?
她们都在互相较劲，想比对方更出彩。
I mean, they're all trying to outdo each other.
所以衬衫熨得更挺，领子也越弄越夸张。
So, you know, the shirts get more starched, you know, crazier collars.
每个人都想打扮得无可挑剔。
You know, I mean, everyone's looking top notch.
被人指手画脚当然不爽，但如果你熬过去了，以后回头想想，嘿，我还挺喜欢叠被子的。
It's not fun being told what to do, but if you can make it through and later in life, you're like, You know, I like making my bed.
等我回来一看，床已经铺好了，整个人都能重新开始。
When I come back later, it's made and I can start fresh.
不用再费劲去收拾一堆乱七八糟的东西。
I don't have to try and put together something.
所以我从中获益良多。
So I took a lot of benefit.
好的习惯。
Good habits.
好习惯，正确的自律方式。
Good habits, discipline the right way.
我不记得自己是怎么毕业的。
I don't know how I graduated.
我觉得他们就是赶紧把我打发走了。
I think they just got me out.
我敢打赌就是这么回事。
I would bet money on it.
那时候情况不一样。
It was a different time.
他们根本不可能留着我。
There was no way they were doing with me.
高三毕业考试那天，我开着车去学校，那天有四场考试，但我必须故意考及格线才能顺利毕业。
I pulled up on senior finals day and I had four tests and I had to get Ds in order to get out of high school.
我到那儿的时候，我哥也来了，他问我：‘咱们去看平克·弗洛伊德的演出吗？’
And I pulled up, my bro pulled up, he's like, Are we going to Pink Floyd?
我问他：‘你开车？’
And I was like, You driving?
他说：‘对啊。’
And he goes, Yeah.
我抓起烟，上了他那辆小小的雪佛兰Chevette。
I grabbed my cigarettes, got in his little Chevette.
我们俩身上总共就六十块钱，直接上高速，一路开到爱荷华北部的塞达福尔斯，去Unidome现场看了平克·弗洛伊德的《Momentary Lapse of Reason》演唱会。
We got on the highway with like $60 between us, took off to Northern Iowa to the Unidome in Cedar Falls and watched Pink Floyd do the momentary lapse of Reason.
《Dogs of War》那些歌，全演了。
Yeah, Dogs of War, all that stuff.
总之，到了Unidome，我们干脆直接翘了毕业考。
Anyway, Unidome, we pull up, totally blow off senior finals.
反正我也挂了。
I'm flunking anyway.
我就想，去听平克·弗洛伊德吧。
I'm like, I'm going to Pink Floyd.
演出怎么样？
How was the show?
天哪。
Oh my God.
我当时决定不喝酒，因为那时候我们老是喝啤酒什么的。
I chose to be sober for it because, you know, we drank beer and stuff back then.
我就想，算了，我一定要
I was like, No, I'm gonna fucking
好好感受一下。
do You
完全沉浸进去。
wanna take it in?
到那时候，我已经是高年级生了，早就经历过齐柏林飞船、谁人乐队这些，毕竟以前的学长们推崇的都是平克·弗洛伊德。
And by then, by then being a senior, I mean, I'm already been through the Zeppelin, The Who, you know, the whole class because older kids are like Pink Floyd.
现在轮到平克·弗洛伊德了，他们有电影、有视频、有艺术设计，还有那些疯狂的歌。
And now Pink Floyd, obviously, with me, they got the movie, they got the videos, they got the art, they got the crazy songs.
这一直是我对斯利普克诺特的期待。
That's what I've always wanted for Slipknot.
我想让斯利普克诺特成为像平克·弗洛伊德那样的乐队，有视觉设计，有各种周边，整个氛围都带动起来。
I wanted to be the Slipknot Pink Floyd, you know, have the art, you know, have other things driving.
既然旋律已经够强了，干嘛不把凤凰图案和旋律结合起来？让音乐和视觉一起发力，毕竟这是整个乐队的创作。
If the riffs are gonna be there, why not have a phoenix with the riff and have it work together because of band members.
总之，有件事让我特别震撼——我们当时在联合穹顶里逛，那是个能看见天空的穹顶建筑。
So anyway, went and one thing I'll tell you that blew my mind was we were walking around the Unidome and it's the kind of dome that you can see the sky.
开场的时候，居然有鸟飞过，你知道吧？
And it started off with like birds, you know?
我当时就想，这地方怎么会有鸟？
I was like, Are there fucking birds in here?
你懂的吧？
You know?
这到底是什么？
What is this?
然后又变成一种奇怪的、像信天翁一样的声音，之类的。
And then it turned into some other weird albatross sounding thing or something.
你心里嘀咕：我完全搞不懂，但你确实捕捉到了那些细节。
You're like, I have no idea, but you're picking up on stuff.
接着变成了直升机，而且离得特别近。
And then it's like a helicopter and it's close.
什么？
Like, What?
然后是飞机。
Then it's planes.
最后有人告诉我们，这是四声道立体声系统，我抬头一看——第一次看到音箱分布在四周、背后和前方，而平克·弗洛伊德正在播放声音，从各个方向来回穿梭。
And then finally someone tells us there's a quad stereo set up and I look up and it's the first time I saw speakers on the sides, in the back, in the front and Pink Floyd's playing things, flying back and forth.
他们说，你知道吗？
They're like, You know what?
在我们开场前一小时，把整个场地都用飞艇和直升机覆盖一遍。
Zap the herd, some zeppelins and some helicopters an hour before we play.
咱们开始吧。
Let's get it started.
对我来说，这就是我活着的意义。
So for me, I was like, This is what I live for.
那些人开了个会，专门安排人负责在凌晨四点半让直升机飞起来。
And like these gentlemen had a meeting and it's somebody's job to make the helicopter go at 04:30.
我当时就想，我非得干这行不可。
I'm like, I gotta be in this business.
太阳一落山，我就在报纸上看到，就在那一刻，《照耀你疯狂的钻石》响起来了。
So then right when the sun goes down, and I read this in the paper, but right when the sun goes down, shine on your crazy diamond starts playing.
所有这些安排一出来，全场人都起鸡皮疙瘩了。
You know, all this stuff and everyone just goosebumps it.
现在气氛不太一样了。
And now there's a different vibe.
我看到报纸上说，每场演出他们都这么做。
And I read in the paper that they do that every show.
他们总是在日落的那一刻开场。
They begin their show right when the sun sets.
每天都有人负责查清楚，今天辛辛那提的日落时间是几点。
So every day it's somebody's job to say, Today, the sun in Cincinnati is setting at this time.
昨天是那个时间。
Yesterday, it was this time.
赶紧泡杯茶，我们要提前半小时了。
Get your tea because we're moving up a half an hour.
我当时就想，这才是摇滚乐。
And I just thought, rock and roll.
恰到好处。
On cue.
你知道吗，他们还弄了头猪。
You know, and they had the pig.
那猪的睾丸大得像辆公交车，就在天上飞来飞去。
And the flying The pig's testicles were as big as a bus, you know, and it was just flying over.
人们都盯着看，接着一张床带着上面的人直接从天而降。
People had the eyes, and then there was the bed came flying down with the guy on it.
我们谁都没料到会突然爆炸。
None of us saw that and an explosion.
这彻底改变了我的人生。
Changed my life.
这彻底改变了我的人生。
Changed my life.
几年后我带我妈去看过一次，但那已经是DivisionVale了。
And then I got to take my mom to it several years later, but that was DivisionVale.
他们在艾姆斯市郊外的一个露天体育场演出，离这儿三十英里远。
They played in an outdoor stadium in Ames, 30 miles away.
我没买票。
I didn't buy tickets.
我跟我妈说我会搞到黄牛票，她气坏了。
I told my mom I was gonna get scalp tickets, and she was really mad.
我就跟她说，你信我一次吧。
And I said, Just trust your son.
我学到了几件事，真的。
I learned a couple things, man.
这些人就是我的同类。
This is my people.
她就回我，随你吧。
And she's like, Whatever.
我走过去，指着我的人说，就是他。
And I went over and I'm like, Here's my guy.
我过去接了票，带她坐到第十五排，我妈都哭了。
And I went over and I got, and I walked her up to the fifteenth row and my mom was in tears.
天哪。
Wow.
她就问：‘怎么做到的？’
She was just like, How?
我就说：妈，这不就是钱的事儿吗。
And I was like, Mom, it's just money.
有人买了票，开口要四倍价格，还得交房租，可我妈妈在这儿，我们在这儿，她特别喜欢《Comfortably Numb》，特别喜欢这个乐队。
Like, Somebody got some tickets and they asked for four times and gonna pay rent and my mom's here and we're here and she just, she loved Comfortably Numb and she loved that band.
说真的，这就像信仰一样——你不能说乐队不存在，我就不管不顾，我的责任和灵魂都得跟上。
Again, religious, like you can't be in a band, you know, Slipknot can't exist if I'm not going to full duty my duty and my soul.
我身边有像平克·弗洛伊德这样的人，他们展示了你能把这事做到什么地步。
And I have peers like Pink Floyd introducing how far you can take it.
我不是说非得这么干。
Not saying this is how you should do it.
我们就是这么干的。
This is how we do it.
是的，比如什么样的例子
Yeah, examples of what
它可能是什么样子。
it can be.
看看我们偶然发现的东西。
Look at what we stumbled across.
对。
Yeah.
我们不会请开场乐队，就在日落时分直接开演，大家都会记住这一刻。
We're not going to have opening bands and we're going to play right at sunset and people are going to remember it.
而我现在已经三十、四十岁了，还在讲这个故事，来，干杯。
And here I am 30, forty years later telling the story, you know, so cheers.
我以前也从来没听过这个。
I never heard that before either.
这真是个很棒的主意。
And it's a great idea.
真的深深打动了所有人。
It really hit.
它让你与某种更宏大的东西产生共鸣。
It connects you
当它与自然节律同步时，远不止是音乐本身。
to the planet.
它就像一种更庞大的力量。
It's like it's much bigger than the music when it's in time with the cycle.
每个人都融入了那种真实的律动。
And everyone just thread it in true vibration.
是的。
Yeah.
真实频率。
True frequency.
回顾你从小对音乐的热爱，你当时有没有想过，这会成为你一生的事业？
Through all of this, through your love of music growing up, did you know this is what I'm gonna do?
我当时就知道。
I did.
第一次看的也是Kiss的演唱会。
Same first Kiss concert.
当时上演的是King Cobra，那也很棒。
What happened was King Cobra was playing, which was cool.
Carmen当时出了一本书，叫《现代鼓手》。
Carmen had a book out, Modern Drummer.
我就是靠那本书学的。
I was learning off that book.
而他本人就在台上，我却在妈妈的唱机上，听着他的小方块黑胶唱片学打鼓，那声音真是纯正的模拟音质。
So here he is, the guy that has the book and I'm learning how to play from him, from his book and his little square vinyls that I'm listening to on my mom's turntable, and they're so analog.
如果你能找到一本原版的《现代鼓手》，还带着那张方形塑料黑胶唱片，那可太难得了。
If you can ever get your hand on an original modern drummer book that has the original square plastic vinyl.
里面收录了每一个鼓点。
It's every drum beat.
是的
Yeah.
他会说，好了。
He'll be like, Alright.
三十三，然后是一和二。
Number 33 and a one and a two.
一、二，接着就是纯粹的齐柏林飞艇风格。
One, two, and then It's like straight Zeppelin.
太疯狂了。
It's crazy.
如果你是个孩子，你会想，我非得把鼓敲个痛快。
If you're a kid, you're like, I'm gonna fucking my drum.
我就想，听这东西，真是够带感的。
I'm like, I listen to this, how greasy this is.
是的
Yeah.
低音鼓落在反拍上，那种感觉就是这么来的。
Bass drum comes in on an offbeat, and that's where you get that.
事情是这样的，当时是他们，然后我想说的是Faster Pussycat，他们是第一支我见过在演出前用直接输入采样的乐队。
So what happened was it was them, and then I wanna say Faster Pussycat, and Faster Pussycat did some stuff because they were the very first band I'd ever seen use direct input sampling before the show.
灯光一灭，频闪灯一亮，就从直接输入里传出一个声音，飞快地喊着：‘更快，更快，更快，小猫，小猫。’
So they the lights went out, strobes hit, and it was a voice through direct input just faster, faster, faster, pussycat, pussy.
声音大得吓人，但简直太有艺术感了。
And it just was so loud and just art.
我当时就想，这到底是什么东西？
And I was like, what is this?
这明显不是乐队现场唱的，但肯定是乐队做的。
This obviously isn't the band, but obviously the band made this.
他们演的其实不是我平时喜欢的类型，你知道吧？
So they played not really my thing, you know?
我从来对华丽摇滚提不起兴趣，不过话说回来，灯光一亮，那边有个隧道的灯，他们居然忘了关。
I could never get into anything glam, you know, but anyway, lights hit and there's a light on a tunnel over here that they didn't turn off.
我这人一看到这情况，第一反应就是：有人被开除了。
And the way I am, I'm like, someone's fired.
他们居然没关掉走廊的灯。
They didn't turn off the hallway.
我能看见乐队了。
I can see the band.
我真的看见乐队了。
And I'm like, I can see the band.
那不是吉恩·西蒙斯吗？
I'm like, that's Gene Simmons.
我就看见吉恩·西蒙斯穿着那身行头，站在走廊里。
And I can see Gene Simmons in this hallway in his stuff.
奇怪的是，我跟他们之间好像没隔着什么。
And I'm like, somehow I'm not separated.
他就像就在眼前一样，跟电视剧里似的。
Somehow he seems right here, like dynasty, you know?
我看着他，只见他从走廊走到黑暗里，旁边还跟着一个人。
And I watch him and what happens is he goes from the hallway out to the dark and there's someone with him.
现在我知道了，那只是个保安。
And I now know it's just a security guard.
但那时候我心想，这个拿手电筒的人是谁？
But back then I'm like, Who is this person with the flashlight?
我盯着他们，确保Gene穿着那双大靴子，一路被护送到楼梯口，他们还打亮灯光，指点他该把手放在哪儿。
And I watch him and they make sure Gene in those big boots, they make sure he gets over to these stairs and they light it and they show him where to put his hands.
我当时心里想，事情得这么办才行。
And in my mind, I was like, here's the deal.
我希望自己能不断练习、努力表现，有朝一日配得上站上那个舞台，成为真正的表演者。
Hopefully I will play and practice and earn the right to be on that stage, to be a performer in frequency.
我就想要这样的路。
That's the way I want it.
对。
Yeah.
但如果不行，那我就拿着手电筒。
But if not, I'm carrying the flashlight.
我这一辈子就跟着一个乐队了。
I'll be with one band my whole career.
会有人讲起我，说我总能提前知道事情的发生。
There'll be stories about me, about how I know things before things.
在被解雇之前，我会去休个假，躲开那些麻烦事。
And before I get fired, I'll go on a vacation till I missed before the drama starts.
所以我就想，我要做那个 guy。
So I'm like, will be that guy.
我会去当个经理。
I will get a manager job.
我会慢慢明白，原来台前工作是这么回事。
I will get You know, I didn't know about front of house.
不，但你早就知道，不管怎样，这都会成为你生活的一部分。
No, but you knew this was going to be your life in one aspect or another.
总归是其中一个方面。
One aspect or another.
所以我们签了合约。
So we get signed.
我们来到……
We come to
你跟我说说，这个乐队是怎么组建起来的？
Tell me how the band comes together.
第一次谈话是怎样的？
What's the first conversation?
这事儿挺有意思，因为吉他手吉姆·鲁特是最后一个加入滑结乐队的。
Well, it's a good one because Jim Root, the guitar player, was the last member to get into Slipknot.
他加入的时候，我们已经签好合约了，明白吗？
We were already signed when he came in, okay?
我之所以提这个，是因为我们每个人当时都在不同的乐队，而且都给他的乐队当过开场嘉宾。
Why I bring this up is because all of us were in different bands and we all opened up for his band.
原来如此。
I see.
他是那个最大型的金属乐队，鞭击金属的。
He was in the biggest band, metal band, thrash.
他们那时候都有挂绳。
They had lanyards.
吉姆的头发一直垂到
Jim's hair was down
屁股那儿。
to his butt.
当时的场景有多热闹？
How much of a scene was there?
里克，我真的没法跟你形容。
Rick, we could, I mean, I can't even tell you.
你知道，那场面太大了。
You know, it's so big.
你根本想象不到。
You wouldn't believe it.
一堆超酷的乐队。
A locusting of cool bands.
是的。
Yeah.
我们现在都老了，回头看看。
You wouldn't we're all older now and we look back.
但每个人都在玩乐队。
But everybody was in a band.
每个人都在不同的乐队里。
Everybody was in a different band.
保罗·格雷和我们原来的主唱当时也在一个乐队。
So Paul Gray and our original singer were in a band.
我们乐队本来要第一个上台。
My band was going to go first.
我上台表演了。
I played.
接着保罗跑来找我，因为我有点朋克范儿。
Then Paul runs up to me because I'm sort of punk.
你知道的，那种Sub Pop和Steve Albini混合的感觉，像Pixies那样的风格，等等。
And, you know, it's kind of sub pop meets Steve Albani, you know, pixies, whatever.
我们就是这样的乐队。
That's who we are.
真的，我们有点疯疯癫癫的。
Real, you know, we're a little crazy.
保罗冲过来跟我说：‘老兄’，然后我才意识到他来自加州。
Paul comes at me and he's like, Bro, I and I realize he's from California.
所以他身上有种浓浓的加州味儿。
So he we feel a little California to him.
我们一见面就特别投缘。
So we hit it right off.
就这样，我和他还有原来的主唱开始了。
And that's how it started, me and him and the original singer.
后来我认识了乔伊，因为他当时给他们的演出开场。
Then I met Joey because he opened up for him.
下一次我被邀请回来时，我们是开场乐队，乔伊的乐队是第二组。
The next time I got asked back, we opened up and Joey's band was second.
我记得他演出完出去透气，我就直接从台上跳下来，走到外面找他。
And I remember going out to Joey, he got done with his set and he went outside to get some air and I just jumped up on the stage and walked outside.
我比他们都大。
I was older than everyone.
我能买啤酒。
I could get a beer.
我走出去，就一直盯着他看。
I walked outside and I was just staring at him.
他看了我一眼，我们根本不认识。
He looked at, we didn't know each other.
他看着我，问：‘啥事？’
He looked at me and he was like, What?
我就说：‘我就是想看看你是不是真人。’
And I was like, I just had to see if you were human.
我当时心想：‘哇。’
I'm like, Woah.
我心里想：‘你真是个活人啊。’
I'm like, You are a real person.
真厉害。
Wow.
恭喜你啊，兄弟。
Congratulations, man.
我这辈子从没见过，压根没想到有人能打鼓打成这样。
I've never seen in my life, I've never seen I didn't know you could play drums like that.
真的。
No.
我完全没想到。
I had no idea.
我觉得你做不到。
I don't think you can.
我觉得你做不到，里克。
I don't think you can, Rick.
我觉得你做不到，你知道的。
I don't think you can, you know?
有一支乐队，跟他们算是同一个圈子的，叫Jacoulios，我以为是美国的。
So one band kind of in the same circle, Jacoulios, it was American, I thought.
那支乐队叫什么名字？
What was the band called?
那支乐队叫Thirty Five Inch Mudder。
It was a band called thirty five Inch Mudder.
他好像挺感兴趣的，但那支乐队跟《愤怒的机器》太像了。
And he was I think he was interested or something, but they were they were just way too much like Rage Against the Machine.
连主唱都长得像扎克·刘易斯。
Even the singer looked like Zach Lewis.
原来如此。
I see.
不过我说这个是因为，实在太多了吧，我都不想用‘竞争’这个词，但你真会觉得每个镇上都是这样。
But anyway, I say this because there was so much I hate to use the word competition, but man, you would think this was every town.
但随着我们年纪渐长，回望过去，作为一支乐队，我们对当年认识的那么多乐队都感到惊讶。
But as we got older and we look back on our lives, we as a band are so amazed on the dozens.
有一回我们在东京，从酒店去演出场地的路上，我和科里·泰勒、吉姆·鲁特开始数我们曾经一起演出过的乐队。
Day we were in Tokyo, we were going from the hotel to the venue and me, Corey Taylor and Jim Root started naming off all the bands we played with.
总数超过了五十个。
It was over 50.
一个接一个地冒出来。
They just kept coming.
真厉害。
Wow.
我们就想，爱荷华和得梅因到底怎么了？
And we're like, What is going on with Iowa and Des Moines?
你知道吗，那时候科技还不一样。
And you know, man, tech was different.
是的。
Yeah.
那时候的科技就是吉他。
Tech was the guitar.
那些需要挑战的人，选择拿起了吉他，而不是玩雅达利。
Someone who needed to be challenged picked up a guitar instead of Atari.
但他们其实是同一批人。
But they're the same person.
没错，没错。
Yeah, yeah.
但他们却说：不，不是这样的。
But they're like, No, no.
那时候也没别的事可做。
And there was nothing else to do.
真的啥都没有。
Nothing.
啥都没有。
Nothing.
一点都没有。
Zero.
我记得那时候打完鼓，吃完饭就想着，我得赶紧回去继续练。
I can remember playing drums and then eating dinner going, I'm getting back down there.
我想再听一遍那玩意儿。
I want to hear that shit.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道吗，我就想再听一听。
You know, I want to hear that.
是的
Yeah.
你懂的
You know?
事情就是这么发生的。
And that's what went on.
所以啊，当太多人说音乐变了的时候，我真的很难认同。
So, you know, I really have a hard time when too many people say that music changed.
不是音乐变了，是技术变了，人也变了。
It's not that music changed, tech changed, people changed.
我们从小听的那些音乐，其实并没有消失，迟早会回来的。
It's not the music that we've all come from, but it'll all come back around.
我看到磁带又开始流行起来了。
I've seen a resurgence in tapes.
这些孩子就蹲在那里，盯着说：你瞧这个。
I mean, these kids stay there like, Look at this.
这是一盘磁带。
It's a cassette.
这是模拟的。
It's analog.
然后你可能会生气，心想：可我呢？我根本不是这样，你看吧。
And then you're like, you see yourself want to get mad and be like, But with me, I'm like, No, no, no, no, See?
真正的好东西总会回来的，这些孩子还会问：什么是编曲？
The real stuff will always come back and these kids will ask, What is an arrangement?
是的。
Yeah.
罗比·罗宾逊那会儿在这房子里到底在干嘛？
What was Robbie Robinson doing up in this house?
干了不少事呢。
Well, lots of things.
其中大部分都是在录音乐。
And throwing down music was the majority of it.
这源自一种神圣的灵感，你知道的。
And it came from a place of God, you know?
所以别在Pro Tools上瞎折腾了。
And so don't mess around with Pro Tools too much.
你其实没学到什么，只是把自己和科技绑在一起，搞出个新花样，那就这样吧。
You're not really actually learning anything other than combining yourself with tech and creating a new way, and so be it.
不过呢，我们大家都能聚在一起，你知道的，我刚做了点音乐，我助理就说：哇，你的专辑真的不一样，方方面面都不一样。
But, you know, we all get to be around and, you know, I just did some music and my assistant told me, Wow, your record is so different and everything.
我说，也不是不一样。
I'm like, It's not that it's different.
我只是来自一个这样的传统：只要有首歌，它听起来该是什么样？
It's just that I come from a school that if there's a song, what's it sound like?
如果歌名叫《Grime》，那它听起来该是什么样？
If the song's called Grime, what does Grime sound like?
鼓点该是什么样的？
What are the drums?
它们是在角落里，还是在鼓房里？
Like, are they in the corner or the drum room?
我们要把它们放到外面吗？
Are we putting them outside?
这首歌是什么样的？
What's the song?
背后有什么故事？
What's the story?
吉他的音色是怎样的？
What's the sound of the guitar?
不是都一样的。
It's not all the same.
对。
Yeah.
你去录专辑的时候，工程师们都会问：你到底想搞什么？
So you go in to write a record and engineers are like, What are you thinking?
好吧，这是氛围音效。
Okay, it's ambient.
我想在下面放几支CB话筒。
I want to get some CB mics underneath.
到桥段的时候，我不确定会不会用上很多这种音效。
And when the bridge comes, I want to I don't know if there's a lot of that going on.
我不确定是不是他们的责任，毕竟他们可能根本不知道，因为我们很多人因为预算问题都放任不管了。
I don't know if it's their fault because they just don't know because we've let a lot of us have let it go because of money.
录音棚越来越贵了。
Studios become expensive.
没人愿意用磁带了。
No one wants to use tape.
其实你没必要非用不可，这也不是音乐产业或者艺术家的问题。
You know, you don't have to, which and it's not really the music industry's problem or artist's problems.
我只是觉得科技和这个世界一直在向前发展，我这么说是因为以前我还真觉得自己特别重要。
I just think the tech and the planet Earth moves in a forward projection, and I talk like this because, you know, I used to think I was really important.
我以前总觉得，哎，我就是个笑话。
I used to think, like, you know, I'm the clown.
是的。
Yeah.
你懂的吧。
You know?
但现在呢。
And now
你确实就是。
Well, you are.
我就是。
I am.
我特别重要。
I'm super important.
但你明白我的意思。
But you know what I mean.
我得学会面对自我，得弄清楚什么才是真正重要的东西
Like, I I had to learn ego, and I had to learn, like, what really is important
对
Yeah.
还有，重要性本身能带来什么
And what importance can do for importance.
过去，每一位伟大的思想家都有一个知己，一个可以畅所欲言、共同推敲想法、帮他们理清方向并坚定执行的伙伴
There was a time when every great thinker had a confidant, a trusted companion with whom to wrestle ideas, to think out loud, to help uncover the essence of what path to take next and how best to follow through.
这个角色一直都很关键，因为真正有意义的问题，需要背景、耐心，以及容纳复杂性的能力
That role has always mattered because meaningful problems require context, patience, and the ability to hold complexity.
Anthropic开发Claude，就是为了支持这样的思考方式
Anthropic developed Claude for just this kind of thinking.
Claude是为那些不满足于表面答案的人准备的
Claude is for minds that don't stop at good enough.
它是能理解你整个事业、并与你共同成长的合作伙伴
It's the collaborator that understands all aspects of your enterprise and advances along with you.
无论你是在午夜调试代码，还是在规划下一个商业决策，Claude 都能帮你理清思路，聚焦真正重要的问题。
Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude sharpens your thinking to tackle the problems that matter most.
Claude 不只是提供孤立的答案，而是专为持续深入的思考而设计。
Rather than offering isolated answers, Claude is built for sustained inquiry.
它能整合来自多个来源的信息，把零散的内容整理成结构清晰、逻辑连贯的分析。
Claude synthesizes information from multiple sources, turning scattered material into a coherent analysis presented with a clear structure.
甚至还会附上引用来源。
It even includes citations.
那些原本被埋没的模式，现在都能清晰浮现出来。
Patterns appear that would otherwise remain buried.
Claude 能安全连接专业工具、文档、日历和项目平台，保持思考的连贯性。
Claude operates with continuity by securely connecting to professional tools, documents, calendars, and project platforms.
从根本上说，Claude 体现了一种不同的AI理念：重视协作而非自动化，追求深度而非即时响应，是与你一起思考，而不是替你思考。
At its core, Claude reflects a different philosophy of artificial intelligence, one that emphasizes collaboration over automation, depth over immediacy, and thinking with rather than thinking for.
对于值得解决的问题，立即前往 claude.ai/tetra 开始使用 Claude。
For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claude.ai/tetra.
今天就试试吧。
Try it today.
你怎么会凑齐了九个人？
How did you end up with nine people?
你知道吗，那是一个声音。
You know, it was a sound.
我记得我和乔伊练完后总坐在一起，他老是抓着我问：九？
I can remember Joey and I sitting around and he grabbed me all the time after practice and be like, nine?
我就回他：那又怎样？
And I'd be like, so what?
他就说：九？
He'd be like, Nine?
他对Roadrunner厂牌的每一支乐队都了如指掌。
And he knew every band on Roadrunner.
他认识所有乐队。
He knew every band ever.
是的。
Yeah.
他总跟我说：‘交响乐团的人不比九个多吗？’
And he'd be like, I would always tell him, Don't orchestras have more than nine people?
我有一次去听过交响乐。
I mean, was at the symphony once.
我敢说，那会儿至少有五十个人。
I swear to God, there had to be 50 people.
他说：‘对，但那不一样。’
He's like, Yeah, but that's different.
人们是各自独立行动的。
People fly independently.
是吗？
I'm like, Do they?
你确定吗？
Do you know that for a fact?
仍然是五十个成年人登机，去某个地方做真实的自己。
It's still 50 adults getting on a plane, getting somewhere to be themselves.
你是在知道九这个数字之前就定下来的吗？不是，根本不是九。
Did you you decide on nine in advance of knowing No, nine no.
你跟我说说这事儿是怎么发生的。
Tell me how it happened.
我脑子里浮现出了三个鼓手的画面。
I had a vision of three drummers.
我还想要一个三角铁。
I wanted a triangle.
有那么一会儿，我完全没法学会打鼓了。
I had lost my ability to learn for a moment on drum set.
我一直在重复自己。
I was repeating myself.
我其实特别想学会。
I was really trying to learn.
我请了一位爵士鼓老师。
I hired a jazz drum teacher.
我当时就像被困在一列火车上。
I was really stuck in a locomotive.
我沿着铁轨，跟着一台固定路线、固定煤料的机车，只能下车搭便车另寻出路。
I was on a rail, on a certain engine with certain coal, and I just had to get off and hitchhike.
我是个专业焊工，有个好朋友听我说过想做点东西，他就说：‘你不是说想搞点玩意儿吗？’
So I'm a professional welder and I had a good friend that was listening and he's like, Hey, you said you wanted to make some shit.
于是我们去了他工作的场地，借了整个周末用。
So we went in, he got the place we worked and we got it for the weekend.
我把第一套鼓搬过去，架起来让我能站着打。
We took my first drum set and we got it up so I could stand up.
后来我跟一个废品站的人熟了起来。
And then I had a relationship with a junkyard guy.
那里本来不准外人买东西，但我一进去，他就说：‘你这小子还挺有意思。’
No one's supposed to be able to buy from there, but I walked in and he's like, You're a curious little fellow.
我就跟他说：哥们，我玩乐队的。
And I'm like, Hey man, I'm in a band.
我想弄点啤酒桶之类的东西。
I want to get some kegs and stuff.
他问：你是学艺术的吧？
And he's like, You're an art student, right?
在大学里？
With the university?
我说：对，我是生活的艺术生。
I'm like, Yeah, I'm an art student of life.
他说：你随便拿，堆成一堆就行。
And he's like, Get whatever you want, put it in a pile.
你有钱吗？
You have cash?
我说：我有钱。
I'm like, I got cash.
所以我到处逛，找酒桶、30加仑的桶、50加仑的桶，只要是我觉得能发出声音的东西，全收回来。
And so I'd walk around and I'd get kegs and 30 gallon drums, 50 gallon drums, everything and anything that I thought had a sound.
原来的主唱其实也是鼓手，但他觉得自己在鼓点上迷失了方向，觉得自己的技巧不够格。
So the original lead singer was a drummer too, and he felt he lost his way on drumming and he felt he didn't have what it took for the technique.
如果要凑齐他、保罗和乔伊这些人，他们全都在死亡金属乐队待过，而安迪是鼓手，可他觉得自己根本玩不了那种鼓点。
So if they were going to do him and Paul and Joey, all those guys were in death metal bands, And Andy was a drummer and he just felt he couldn't cut that drumming.
所以他想当主唱，而且他特别擅长低吼。
So he wanted to be a singer and he can growl.
直到今天，他依然是那个最牛的人。
And to this day, he's the man.
于是他说，我也不想放弃打鼓。
So he's like, I'm not going to give up my drumming either.
我就跟他说，那你来打这些。
And I was like, You play those.
所以我给他做了鼓，我自己也有鼓，那时候Slipknot人还没现在多，原来的主唱其实是另一个鼓手，而且他更靠前。
So I made him drums and I had drums and originally Slipknot was less people and the original lead singer was the other drummer and he was more upfront.
那个情况特别棒的地方在于，他技术非常扎实，虽然是黑金属和鞭挞金属的风格。
And what was wonderful about that situation is he was a very technical, if black metal, thrash.
还有其他乐手参与吗，还是就你们三个？
Other musicians as well or just the three of you?
保罗·格雷弹吉他，安迪·莱尔负责打鼓和主唱。
Paul Gray playing guitar, Andy Ryle playing the drums and singing.
一位叫唐尼·斯蒂尔的先生在弹吉他，而我负责打鼓。
A gentleman by the name of Donnie Steele was playing guitar, and I was playing drum set.
对。
Right.
我们都同意会来一位专业的金属鼓手加入。
And we all agreed that there was going to be a metal drummer coming in.
但说实话，我一向不喜欢这样，我跟他说过我要站出来，可当时我正在即兴演奏，你知道的，你只能慢慢学嘛。
But, you know, and I always hated that because I told him, I'm going to stand up, but, you know, I was jamming and I was, you know, so you just have to learn, you know?
有一天我在科罗拉多，安迪和保罗没告诉我，就邀请乔伊过来。
And then one day I was in Colorado and Andy and Paul invited Joey to come over without telling me.
于是我从科罗拉多开车回来了。
So I drove back from Colorado.
那你之前就认识乔伊了？
You already knew Joey though?
是的，我认识他。
Yeah, I knew him.
你是在见过他之后才……
Was this after you had seen him
对，我们聊过好几次。
Yeah, yeah, talk several times.
没错。
Yeah.
所以乔伊以为我不去排练了，但我凌晨四点就从科罗拉多出发，抛下家人赶回来参加排练。
So Joey was told I wasn't gonna be at practice, and I left Colorado at like four in the morning, left my family, and I came to practice.
我老婆觉得我疯了。
My wife thought I was nuts.
我当时就想，Joey不会来参加我的乐队排练了。
I was like, Joey's not coming to my band practice.
真的吗。
Wow.
所以我去了，我们弹了三首歌，最后我看了他一眼。
So I came and we played three songs and I looked at him at the end.
我就盯着他，问：还需要我再弹点什么吗？
I just looked at him and I said, Need me to play anything again?
他说：不用了。
He goes, Nah.
我心里想，果然如此。
I was like, I didn't think so.
然后我就问：要不要用我的鼓棒？
And I was like, You want to use my sticks?
他问：可以吗？
He's like, Could I?
我就说，好啊。
And I go, Yeah.
他拿过去，问：我可以用你的鼓组吗？
He took them and he goes, Is it okay if I play your drum set?
我说：当然可以，老兄。
And I was like, Of course, man.
我们不就是干这个的吗。
That's what we're here for.
我可是当哥哥的，老兄。
And I'm big brother, man.
我已经跟以前大不一样了。
And I'm a much different person.
我留着长发，梳着脏辫。
I'm pretty egg rollers, dreadlocks.
我准备好了。
I'm ready.
我是。
I am.
该是时候面对生活了。
It's time for life.
我有两个孩子。
I got two kids.
你知道的，该动身了。
You know, it's time to get going.
要么闭嘴，要么去找份工作。
Either shut up or get a job.
于是他坐下来，问：‘我能把军鼓挪一下吗？’
So he sits down and he goes, Can I move the snare a little bit?
我说：‘当然可以。’
And I go, Of course.
他接着说：‘我当时就想，对吧？’
And he goes, And I was like, Right?
然后保罗就说，要不要一起即兴弹一段？
And then Paul's like, You want to jam one of these?
他说，咱们就弹最后一首吧，就是那首《Sick》，是我们写的第一首歌。
He goes, Let's play that last one, which was the song Sick, which is the first song we ever wrote.
你知道吗，那些人还真把节奏数出来了。
You know, man, they counted that shit off.
我印象最深的，除了他做的那些事，还有他记下我们刚才一起弹的东西的能力，太惊人了。
What I remember most besides what he was doing is the incredible ability to retain what those guys just played with me.
你知道吗，那会儿我的生活就像被龙卷风扫过一样。
You know, it was like a tornado hit my life.
我当时就懵了，完全不知道发生了什么。
You know, I was just like, I have no idea what's happening right now.
是的。
Yeah.
但我特别佩服的是，他只听了一遍就记住了。
But I was so impressed on the, he just heard it once.
我当时是个被忽视的鼓手，但那次从头到尾一气呵成，直接把我推到了疯狂的境界。
I was the drummer disregarded, taken to a level of insanity one time through from beginning to end.
我从来没见识过这样的才华。
And I just didn't know talent like that.
我从来没见识过这样的刻苦。
I didn't know practice like that.
我根本不知道什么叫真正的才华。
I didn't know talent.
后来我们做了好多事，我拿起鼓槌和主唱一起玩，乔伊就在那儿笑个不停。
So we did a bunch of things and then I got on the drums with the singer and Joey was just laughing.
他特别享受这个过程。
He loved it.
排练结束，我们走到外面，我跟乔伊说：好了，你到底要不要加入？
And we got done with practice and we went outside and I go to Joey, I go, Okay, are you in or out?
他回答：我得想想。
He goes, I got to think about it.
我这个人脾气挺冲的。
And I'm pretty agro person.
我直接凑到他脸前头。
I got right up in his face.
我问他：什么叫你得想想？
I go, What do mean you gotta think about it?
这有什么好想的。
There's no thinking about it.
你要么加入，要么走人。
You're either in or you're out.
事情不是这么办的，小子。
That's not how this works, son.
我当时就想，咱们这下有麻烦了。
You know, I'm like, We got problems.
你这话什么意思？
What do you mean?
你打算把我搁置等候？
You're gonna put me on hold?
你真把保罗·格雷这么晾着？
You're put Paul Gray on hold like that?
我跟你说，里克，没那么久，绝对没十年。
I swear, Rick, it took, it wasn't ten years.
顶多也就五六年，或者七年吧。
It might've been five, six, seven years.
大概就是咱们跟你一起录专辑那会儿。
Maybe around the time we did an album with you.
是的。
Yeah.
他曾经跟我说过，那会儿我们正一起喝点东西。
He told me once, you know, we're having a drink or something.
他跟我说：嘿，我能跟你说件事吗？
He goes, Hey, can I tell you something?
我说：‘哦，你打算给我点什么人生礼物？’
I go, Oh, you're gonna give me something in life?
你知道吗，他说：‘是的，我会给你点东西。’
You know, he goes, Yeah, I'm gonna give you something.
你会喜欢的。
You're gonna like it.
我说：‘什么？’
I go, What?
他说：‘你还记得那天你问我有没有兴趣加入吗？我说我会考虑一下？’
He goes, You know that day you asked me if I, you know, wanted in, I told you I'm gonna think about it?
我说：‘对。’
I go, Yeah.
那可能让我们俩一开始关系就不太顺，不过现在想想还挺搞笑的。
That might've started me and you off in a bad way, you and me, you know, and we're laughing.
他说：‘说实话，要不是你让我进乐队，我早就拿走你的点子，自己干了。’
And he goes, Well, the truth is that if you wouldn't have let me in the band, I would have taken your idea and started, son of a bitch.
我早就自己干了。
I would have done it.
我问：‘你这话是什么意思？’
I'm like, What do you mean you would have done it?
他说：‘我早就找保罗了。',
And he's like, I would have got Paul.
我会搞三人鼓手的配置，但会有点不一样。
I would have done the three drummer thing, but a little different.
我又开始跟他吵了，不过我还是说：谢了，兄弟。
I was like, you know, now we're arguing again, you know, but I was like, thanks, man.
真的，谢谢你。
Thanks, you know?
他说：兄弟，我早就练熟了，也跟很多人合过奏。
And he goes, bro, I just practiced and did my thing and had played with so many people.
结果你一来就带着三套鼓，而且你直接就上手了，真的。
And then you show up with three drums and you're, you know, because I was in right away, man.
你知道吧，我现在的演奏方式就跟以前一模一样。
You know, I'm playing just like I play now.
对。
Yeah.
你知道，当时我们就想着，保罗来弹贝斯，那我们就得再找一个吉他手。
You know, just really, you know, so, and then what happened was we were like, Paul's gonna play bass, so we need another guitar player.
为什么保罗改去弹贝斯了？
Why did Paul switch to bass?
因为保罗本来就是弹吉他的。
Because Paul's originally a guitar player.
是的。
Yeah.
也许他赶不上我们推进的速度，没法那么快达到我们需要的水平。
And maybe he just wasn't gonna be as good as he needed to be as fast as we were moving.
明白了。
I see.
他是个天才。
He was a genius.
只要他愿意每天起来多练，没什么是他做不到的。
And if he wanted to get up every day and practice more, he could do anything.
但他呢，你知道的，我们那时候进展挺慢的，你也懂的。
But he, you know, he's, you know, we were slow moving together, you know?
所以弹贝斯更简单。
So bass was easier.
他能写歌，而乔伊和保罗总说：‘这就要开始了。’
He could write And Joey and Paul were always like, No, this is starting.
于是我们找来了鼓手。
So we got the drums.
保罗说，我得负责贝斯，这样才能和乔伊一起写旋律，所以我们还需要吉他手。
Paul's like, I'm gonna have to do the bass to communicate and write the riffs with Joey, and we're gonna need guitar players.
于是我们找了乔伊乐队里的一位吉他手。
So we got a guitar player that was in Joey's band.
他叫乔什·布雷纳德。
His name was Josh Brainard.
乔什·布雷纳德其实出现在我们的第一张专辑里。
Josh Brainard is actually on our first album.
我们回家后他就离开了。
He quit after we came home.
我们又和罗斯·罗宾森回到印第戈牧场，花了三个月重录一首歌，叫《Spit It Out》。
We went back to Indigo Ranch with Ross Robinson for another three months to redo one song, Spit It Out.
那时候吉姆来了，我们用同样的速度重新录了《Spit It Out》。
And that's when Jim came and we redid Spit It Out at the same tempo.
但我们自己在得梅因录的版本，完全碾压了其他所有版本。
But the version we did in Des Moines ourselves just smokes all of it.
所以他们只能保留这个版本，你知道的，没人真觉得满意——毕竟专辑大部分都是在印第戈牧场做的，唯独这首是我们自己录的，根本没法复刻。
So they had to keep it, you know, and no one was really happy about it because you got this album made up at Indigo Ranch, and then you have this song that got assigned that we recorded ourselves that you can't recreate.
如果你去听第一张同名专辑，《Spit It Out》那首，用的就是我们在爱荷华州得梅因原版录制的版本。
So if you go to the first album, self titled, the version that is on the self titled, Spit It Out, is our original record recorded in Des Moines, Iowa.
所以西德加入了，罗斯和乔伊负责混音。
So Sid was added to it and Ross and Joey did a mix.
所以从音质上来说，这是个不一样的版本。
So it's, you know, a different version as far as quality.
不过跟你提一下，当时的情况是，我们在前期制作和录音时录了两个版本，一个快一点，一个慢一点。
But just to give you a little information, the reason why it happened was Ross, when we pre pro'd and recorded, we did a faster version and a slower version.
但他没按其中一个原速来录，因为他觉得你们已经有这个了。
But he didn't do one the same tempo because he thought, You have this.
我明白了。
I see.
后来我们离开后，唱片公司说：快的不要，慢的也不要。
Then we went away, the label's like, No to the fast one, no to the slow one.
你们最好搞一个跟原版速度一样的。
We should really try to get one the same.
他们花了不少钱想重新录，但就是复刻不出来，因为这东西有魔力。
They spent all the money to try to get it, and you just couldn't create because it's magic.
那是我们家Rick，当时我们在地下室，事情发生的时候，我们停了下来，彼此对视，都知道有什么东西真正降临了，感觉完全不一样。
It was our Rick, when we were in the basement and that happened, we stopped and looked at each other and we all knew something entered reality and it was different.
这简直太棒了。
It's the greatest.
真的是最棒的一次。
It was the greatest.
我跟别人说，从来没有任何一次能比得上那次。
I tell people it's never been better than that.
就是这样。
That's it.
我永远记得，看着大家，我们只录到了半首歌。
Never been better than I remember looking at people and we only got half the song.
我们反复录了三五十遍，就想找到那种感觉。
We played it 50 times, thirty, fifty times to try and get somewhere.
但最后只录到了一半。
But we only got to like half.
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